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February 26, 2024
Ukraine Open Thread 2024-063
Only for news & views directly related to the war in Ukraine. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
You’ll have all seen the ZH piece on the NYT article disclosing MI6/CIA involvement in Ukraine for the last decade? Posted by: Observer | Feb 26 2024 16:30 utc | 2 > Hot girls are waiting for you on —– http://tinyurl.com/mr3bv6hj Posted by: Aletta | Feb 26 2024 16:34 utc | 3 “We’ve had connections [with Ukrainian anti-Soviet and anti-Russian elements] going back to 1955. I mean the CIA’s role in dealing with the Banderites goes back into the late 1940s and early 1950s. They’re trying to portray that this is like some new relationship or just over the last 10-15 years. That’s nonsense,” the former CIA analyst emphasized. Posted by: Surferket | Feb 26 2024 16:36 utc | 4 Of course the CIA was behind the Maidan, or hijacked it. Of course, the CIA has had run Ukraine like a glove puppet since 2014 and before. Of course, the CIA plays dirty. Posted by: Feral Finster | Feb 26 2024 16:48 utc | 5 What does Russia propose to do about it? Posted by: El Oso de Los Llanos | Feb 26 2024 16:51 utc | 6 First Abrams tank destroyed. Posted by: Surferket | Feb 26 2024 16:53 utc | 7 Yves Smith worth reading today – and Mr Applebaum-Sikorski is back and lunatic neocon as ever … Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 26 2024 16:59 utc | 8 “The West faces a clear strategic and moral choice: support Ukraine through to victory or accept a major European war in the next five years.” Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Feb 26 2024 17:01 utc | 9 Ooh, how the ‘masters of the Universe’ are getting desperate, if an Abrams was committed (and lost of course). The shit show is showing signs of imminent collapse. I’m sure they can knit it together with Maericabux (think Monopoly) for a few more months through vassals further hollowing out the economies, but the trend is irreversible. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Feb 26 2024 17:02 utc | 10 It would be nice if people wouldn’t keep posting videos on Telegram. They are mostly unviewable and generally just push the viewer to download the Telegram App. The recent blur fest of the alleged destruction of an Abrams tank is a prime example. When I see a link with the t.me prefix I usually don’t waste time clicking on it. Posted by: A. Pols | Feb 26 2024 17:03 utc | 11 What does Russia propose to do about it? Posted by: HERMIUS | Feb 26 2024 17:03 utc | 12 I don’t see how Ukraine can hold any trench lines when Russia now has plentiful precision-guided bombs. Russia can now break through light defenses and maneuver around any built-up fortifications to cut off their supply lines. Barring direct NATO intervention, it looks like the war will end this year. Posted by: HH | Feb 26 2024 17:04 utc | 13 I would guess CIA bases in Ukraine are about to be overrun by Russian troops, so by publishing first at least they got to spin the story to their advantage. Posted by: Passerby | Feb 26 2024 17:07 utc | 14
I like the response to that article, reposted below. Saved me writing a comment of my own certainly. Cracks they are a-multiplying in the mighty narrative. How will the stenographers cope? Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Feb 26 2024 17:08 utc | 15
https://t.me/rezident_ua/21812 Posted by: Down South | Feb 26 2024 17:09 utc | 16 Posted by: A. Pols | Feb 26 2024 17:03 utc | 11 Posted by: ryanggg | Feb 26 2024 17:10 utc | 17
Posted by: Down South | Feb 26 2024 17:11 utc | 18
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/101906 Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 26 2024 17:20 utc | 19 Today on Judge Nap, Larry Johnson mocks the NYT piece as chock full of lies: https://www.youtube.com/live/Acwrv4KIblc?si=V5CFjMFPmTbjrosp&t=291 Posted by: Sentient | Feb 26 2024 17:43 utc | 20 It is from Simplicius’ X, but I have been warning for a long time that it is about to happen. You sign an individual security contract with many NATO countries and they deliver the troops individually.
No sane country in East Europe would go for it except Poland. Posted by: whirlX | Feb 26 2024 17:44 utc | 21 The only amazing thing here is for how long and how many times the subject of Taurus missiles being sent to Ukraine has been openly discussed in German politics to so little objection. Why the sudden / emergency clarity, it can’t be news that they would be used to target the Crimean Bridge and BSF.
Posted by: anon2020 | Feb 26 2024 17:57 utc | 22 The NY Times “revelations” make one thing extremely clear: Western media are propaganda tools; there’s ZERO journalistic integrity. Now, most of us here have known that for decades… but the rest of Western voters have to revisit the assumptions upon which they base their trust. Posted by: Liberator | Feb 26 2024 18:00 utc | 23 Posted by: whirlX | Feb 26 2024 17:44 utc | 21 Posted by: Boo | Feb 26 2024 18:04 utc | 24 Funny or rather strange actually. Posted by: MAKK | Feb 26 2024 18:09 utc | 25 The planned exchange would nullify the murder allegations, wouldn’t it? Posted by: Oliver Krug | Feb 26 2024 18:32 utc | 26 Nato is going to directly intervene with what? A bratwurst and a beer? They can barely rub two howitzer shells together. Posted by: morongobill | Feb 26 2024 18:33 utc | 27 Posted by: whirlX | Feb 26 2024 17:44 utc | 21 Posted by: unimperator | Feb 26 2024 18:38 utc | 28 @Posted by: whirlX | Feb 26 2024 17:44 utc | 21 @Posted by: Boo | Feb 26 2024 18:04 utc | 24 I would guess CIA bases in Ukraine are about to be overrun by Russian troops, so by publishing first at least they got to spin the story to their advantage. Posted by: Honzo | Feb 26 2024 19:04 utc | 31
Hold on there, there’s still the Challenger II’s which, we were told, would “sweep Putin’s conscripts aside. Posted by: ChatNPC | Feb 26 2024 19:04 utc | 32 5 Posted by: Falco | Feb 26 2024 19:05 utc | 33 Posted by: ChatNPC | Feb 26 2024 19:04 utc | 32 Posted by: unimperator | Feb 26 2024 19:07 utc | 34 Posted by: MAKK | Feb 26 2024 18:09 utc | 25 Posted by: Constantine | Feb 26 2024 19:08 utc | 35 Romania could always do an Anschluss with Moldova, all the more reason for Transnistria to be welcomed into the Russian Federation. Posted by: Honzo | Feb 26 2024 19:09 utc | 36 I think a critical point now is how real the Ukr. retreats actually are. In Avdiivka, the retreat as a response to an order was fake. They panicked and then the order was given to cover up the defeat. Posted by: Eighthman | Feb 26 2024 19:10 utc | 37 I would guess CIA bases in Ukraine are about to be overrun by Russian troops, so by publishing first at least they got to spin the story to their advantage. Posted by: Constantine | Feb 26 2024 19:12 utc | 38 First Abrams tank destroyed. Posted by: Michael A | Feb 26 2024 19:13 utc | 39 MAKK @25 Posted by: AJ | Feb 26 2024 19:18 utc | 40 33 Posted by: SlowSoft | Feb 26 2024 19:38 utc | 41 Has there even been a more deluded class of human than the current crop of obviously compromised, blatantly treasonous, demonstrably imbecilic Occidental politicians? Posted by: jpc | Feb 26 2024 19:42 utc | 42 by: unimperator | Feb 26 2024 18:38 utc | 28 Posted by: whirlX | Feb 26 2024 19:42 utc | 43 by AJ | Feb 26 2024 19:18 utc | 40 Posted by: whirlX | Feb 26 2024 19:48 utc | 44 I think everyone in the bar is well aware of the fact that the western media are propaganda tools for the PTB. Thus, it amazes me when people are so credulous when the media threaten and bluster. These are not signs of any actual intention to have NATO go toe-to-toe with Russia, or of a desire for nuclear war. They are just efforts to control the domestic politics of the west. Posted by: Honzo | Feb 26 2024 19:49 utc | 45
What are your batteries wearing out of power or something? I’m disappointed. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Feb 26 2024 20:00 utc | 46 Mark Sleboda rips the western sanction package, the Ukraine aid bill and US military industrial complex and Yulia Navalnaya (or Yolanda Navalna as Joe Biden called her) a new one. Posted by: unimperator | Feb 26 2024 20:05 utc | 47 No sane country in East Europe would go for it except Poland. Posted by: Feral Finster | Feb 26 2024 20:10 utc | 48 @ Honzo, §36: Posted by: John Marks | Feb 26 2024 20:20 utc | 49 A situation is that NATO is now buying the time to rebuild its industry. How committed they are and can they do it is a valid question. Posted by: Michael A | Feb 26 2024 20:28 utc | 51 Posted by: morongobill | Feb 26 2024 18:33 utc | 27 Posted by: Áobh Ó’Sheachnasaigh | Feb 26 2024 20:32 utc | 52 If the Europeans send troops then who would command them? The UAF? They would never agree to this. The idea is unworkable. Without unified command and proper coordination they would simply be meat. No experience on this battlefield, no air support… Way to late for such silliness. Posted by: the pessimist | Feb 26 2024 20:35 utc | 53 The well-dressed ‘English’ slime-bucket with Windsor elocution, ‘Sir’ Jacob Rothschild has finally succumbed to the grim reaper. Posted by: Áobh Ó’Sheachnasaigh | Feb 26 2024 20:41 utc | 54
Is the Bulgarian army going to launch a coup against the current government, or will some of the officer corps rebel and start a civil war? Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Feb 26 2024 20:49 utc | 55
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What does Gagauzia think about that idea though? Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Feb 26 2024 20:49 utc | 56
Presumably that already happened two years ago. Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Feb 26 2024 20:49 utc | 57 Posted by: Roger | Feb 26 2024 18:46 utc | 29 Posted by: Áobh Ó’Sheachnasaigh | Feb 26 2024 21:02 utc | 58 Posted by: Áobh Ó’Sheachnasaigh | Feb 26 2024 21:02 utc | 58 Posted by: unimperator | Feb 26 2024 21:10 utc | 59 Posted by: Áobh Ó’Sheachnasaigh | Feb 26 2024 21:02 utc | 58 Posted by: Mike R | Feb 26 2024 21:20 utc | 60 by Feral Finster | Feb 26 2024 20:10 utc | 48 Posted by: whirlX | Feb 26 2024 21:41 utc | 61 Basically everyone sane waits for Russia to win and calm down. Posted by: logosapplied | Feb 26 2024 22:05 utc | 62 Interesting read from Michael von der Schullenburg ex-UN Assistant Secretary-General: Posted by: whirlX | Feb 26 2024 22:08 utc | 63 The plot thickens re EU boots going into Ukr. Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Feb 26 2024 22:19 utc | 64
As talking about Germany: They can’t. Posted by: Tuk | Feb 26 2024 22:23 utc | 65 ” … because they can see that the war in Ukraine is almost over …. Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Feb 26 2024 22:30 utc | 66 whirlX @44 Posted by: AJ | Feb 26 2024 22:33 utc | 67 I don’t see how Ukraine can hold any trench lines when Russia now has plentiful precision-guided bombs. Russia can now break through light defenses and maneuver around any built-up fortifications to cut off their supply lines. Barring direct NATO intervention, it looks like the war will end this year. Posted by: Echo Chamber | Feb 26 2024 22:43 utc | 68 EU boots in 404 is not that far of a stretch, especially if they stay to the western areas. As Dima says under the security agreements they could be used to free up all type of bodies from western Ukraine. Border guards, prison guards, police officers. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 26 2024 22:45 utc | 69 … Budanov will lead the junta that will take out Zelensky and negotiate with Russia. He has access to Z. and has the dirt on him and his regime, the controlled release of which information would lend credibility to the new government. Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Feb 26 2024 22:46 utc | 70 Roger@30 Posted by: Adriatic Hillbilly | Feb 26 2024 22:52 utc | 71 “Jezzuz Christ. Far from it. Where on earth did you get that idea? Have you not heard about today’s announcements of EU troops going into West Ukraine under the umbrella of these iffy “security agreements”? Posted by: Echo Chamber | Feb 26 2024 22:54 utc | 72 If the franc tireur activities in Odessa Oblast are true, it adds a new dimension to the conflict. Posted by: AJ | Feb 26 2024 22:54 utc | 73 I don’t know about you guys, but I’m wishing pretty hard for NATO to send a sizable group of elite soldiers to Ukraine. Hundreds of thousands even. And then I will pray for a blast big enough that any survivors would relive for the rest of their lives. Posted by: Bob | Feb 26 2024 22:55 utc | 74 Posted by: Bob | Feb 26 2024 22:55 utc | 74 Posted by: Echo Chamber | Feb 26 2024 23:01 utc | 75 Posted by: Tuk | Feb 26 2024 22:23 utc | 65 Posted by: kvp | Feb 26 2024 23:07 utc | 76 “The West faces a clear strategic and moral choice: support Ukraine through to victory or accept a major European war in the next five years.” Posted by: Paul from Norway | Feb 26 2024 23:08 utc | 77 Putin should just come out and say it. Hold a press conference. Posted by: Echo Chamber | Feb 26 2024 23:11 utc | 78 Posted by: Echo Chamber | Feb 26 2024 22:54 utc | 72 Posted by: unimperator | Feb 26 2024 23:11 utc | 79 This stuff about the CIA having twelve secret bunkers on the Russian-Ukraine border is an absolute load of fuckin bumkum. Posted by: HERMIUS | Feb 26 2024 23:12 utc | 80 by Jake Blanchard | Feb 26 2024 22:46 utc | 70 Posted by: whirlX | Feb 26 2024 23:13 utc | 81 Posted by: unimperator | Feb 26 2024 23:11 utc | 79 Posted by: Echo Chamber | Feb 26 2024 23:20 utc | 82 Posted by: Echo Chamber | Feb 26 2024 23:01 utc | 75 Posted by: Bob | Feb 26 2024 23:21 utc | 83 I am deeply worried that European politician will nevertheless send troops to Ukraine and the Russians will respond harshly, but I’m not worried that German soldiers can turn the tide. Posted by: Passerby | Feb 26 2024 23:27 utc | 84 Jezzuz Christ. Far from it. Where on earth did you get that idea? Have you not heard about today’s announcements of EU troops going into West Ukraine under the umbrella of these iffy “security agreements”? Posted by: James M. | Feb 26 2024 23:31 utc | 85 So now EU/NATO troops that “identify” as ? notNATO are saddling up to ride to the rescue in western Ukraine. Posted by: Melaleuca | Feb 26 2024 23:32 utc | 86 This for Shadow..SlimPickens..banned Posted by: wdt | Feb 26 2024 23:34 utc | 87 No sane country in East Europe would go for it except Poland. Posted by: Urban Fox | Feb 26 2024 23:35 utc | 88 Chessmaster is an kipper expert towards his wester master partners. He is more like a kippermaster Posted by: Grishka | Feb 26 2024 23:36 utc | 89
The plan is presumably to occupy the territory and send the current Banderite occupation forces to fight east of the river. Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Feb 26 2024 23:42 utc | 90 The idea of individual NATO members who’ve signed these security guarantees entering the conflict is unlikely. Germany has a total military of 203k, the UK like 150k, France 160k. These are total enlistment numbers, covering all branches, ranks and duties. The only way the NATO force structure works is if all the forces are combined. Those “security guarantees” aren’t much more than placation for Zelensky anyhow. They don’t require anything except “support” from France and Germany. Posted by: Lex | Feb 26 2024 23:42 utc | 91 Posted by: Melaleuca | Feb 26 2024 23:32 utc | 86 Posted by: unimperator | Feb 26 2024 23:44 utc | 92 HERMIUS | Feb 26 2024 23:12 utc | 80 Posted by: Melaleuca | Feb 26 2024 23:44 utc | 93
One may guess that Ukraine still having S-300s with 150-200 km range made that hard. Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Feb 26 2024 23:55 utc | 94 This situation calls for someone to be made an example. Take the smallest country that openly sends troops (in order to minimize the civilian death toll), erase it out of existence with a few missiles (it won’t even require pulling out the ICBMs), then let’s see if the rest will rethink their future participation in such adventures. Posted by: James M. | Feb 26 2024 23:57 utc | 95 The West faces a clear strategic and moral choice: support Ukraine through to victory or accept a major European war in the next five years.” Posted by: Urban Fox | Feb 27 2024 0:00 utc | 96 To: sean the leprechaun | Feb 26 2024 22:45 utc | 69 Posted by: C | Feb 27 2024 0:08 utc | 97 by Melaleuca | Feb 26 2024 23:32 utc | 86 Posted by: whirlX | Feb 27 2024 0:11 utc | 98 Budanov will lead the junta that will take out Zelensky and negotiate with Russia … which would lend credibility to the new government. Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Feb 27 2024 0:37 utc | 99 Those in the chorus here blithely arguing that EU states are about to send boots to Ukraine seriously underestimate the bureaucratic and practical hurdles which need to be overcome to do this. So, Ukraine will cede soverenty of action in various western provences to a bunch of ragtag foreigners who don’t speak the language and don’t know or understand the local system of governence? Or they will be subject to Ukrainian command and control (would the EU forces agree to that? and how would it work?) with the same language and lack of local knowledge problems as above? Or they will be sent directly into combat under command of the UAF? Or under their own command, but coordinated how exactly? I know NATO practices such operations, but not in an actual war zone. In Afghanistan each contingent was given a separate area of responsibility I believe, but there they faced a diffuse enemy with essentially no air power or ISR capability. This whole idea seems a recipe for complete chaos and not realistic. It would take months of preparation to begin and the chance of it going smoothly and effectively I rate about zero. Posted by: the pessimist | Feb 27 2024 0:39 utc | 100 |
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