Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 23, 2024
Ukraine Can No Longer Win – It In Fact Never Had A Chance To Win

A former U.S. Colonel opines in The Hill:

Ukraine can no longer winThe Hill, Feb 22 2024

 Welcome to the club, I'd say, but its nearly two years to late for that. Ukraine lost the war on February 24 2022, the day the Special Military operation had started.

There never was a chance for Ukraine to win.

I will first let the Colonel recap the established narrative to then add my observations to it:

Two years ago, the Ukrainian Armed Forces defied expectations immediately. Days before Russia’s massive combined arms incursion, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley spoke for the U.S. military when he predicted to Congress that Kyiv would fall within 72 hours.

Many military analysts similarly predicted the Russian Armed Forces would quickly rout the overmatched Ukrainians. American leaders encouraged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to leave the country, lest Russian troops assassinate him.

These projections of immediate success for Russia misread the progress Ukraine had made in capability and readiness since Russia’s 2014 annexation of Crimea. They also overestimated the Russian forces’ readiness, air superiority, and command cohesion.

That is all – somewhat – true.

There were expectations that the Russian forces would quickly conquer Kiev and overthrow the sitting government. However, the Russians never applied the necessary manpower to do so. Pacifying and holding an enemy city in modern times generally requires abound 1 soldier per 40 inhabitants. When the war started Kiev had about 3 million inhabitants. Taking and holding the city would have required some 75,000 troops. But the Russian forces never deployed more than 40,000 troops into the general direction of Kiev.

Thus the military aim was not to take the city. It was to apply pressure to achieve a political aim.

Immediately after the war had begun the Ukrainian government had agreed to hold peace talks. Over the next weeks these were held first in Belarus and later in Istanbul. In late March, after Ukraine had agreed during the negotiations to not join NATO, Russia made the good will gesture of pulling its troops back from the capitol. But in early April the U.S. and UK intervened and pressed Kiev to abolish negotiations.

The western political and military leadership had simply misread the Russian aim, thought its military was weak and had come to the wrong conclusions.

That also happened in the following phase:

One year ago, all signs were encouraging. Ukrainian forces had been bloodied, but they held on to territory in the east in defiance of expectations. Successful counteroffensives allowed Ukraine to regain territory in the south. Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy defiantly declared the coming year one of “our invincibility.” American aid to the country offered a king’s ransom in artillery and anti-tank weapons through the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, and the flow seemed unceasing.

Inspired by Ukraine’s stunning success against the much larger and more advanced military, the West galvanized behind Zelensky and his troops. Tragically, all these indicators led to unrealistic expectations.

Russia has started the war with its military structured in peace-time formations. It had only used its standing forces, not any conscripts or mobilized troops, to launch the Ukraine campaign. The main organizational structure of Russian troops at that time were the Battalion Tactical Groups.

Excursus: During Soviet times the military had the classic war-time structure of Divisions with 4 to 5 Brigades each of which each had 4 to 5 Battalions each of which had four to five Companies. Such structures require lots of people.

To save money Russia did away with the Division layer. The Motorized Infantry Brigades, consisting of one tank Battalion, two motorized infantry Battalions and two artillery Battalions, were shrunken into Battalion Tactical Groups.

About a third of the artillery and tanks formations were eliminated as well as half of infantry. Instead of some 4.000-4.500 soldiers in a Brigade formations the Battalion Tactical Groups had each kept only 2,000 men. The no longer manned and needed equipment was put into storage.

The peace construct of a Battalion Tactical Group was a lot cheaper than the people intensive Brigade structure but still had about 2/3rd of the original fire power. The idea had always been that, should a war happen, the BTG structure would be re-filled with mobilized men and restored equipment to again become a full-sized brigade. – End Excursus

It was not until August 2022, after the failure of another round of negotiations, that the Russian leadership decided to go on war footage. A mobilization was launched, equipment was pulled from storage and peacetime BTG formations were revived into full Brigade structures. The Division command layer was reestablished. All this required time and retraining. The war industry had to be set up to support a longer fight.

There is a saying: "The Russians are slow to saddle but ride fast." It can be applied here.

During 2022 to early 2023 the sparse Russian forces were required to use economy of force. Positions of less value were guarded by a minimum of forces (Kharkiv, Kherson). When those forces came under pressure the positions were simply given up. Defensive lines were build to guard more valuable ground.

By spring to summer 2023 the Russian forces had (re-)grown to full war power. The systematic destruction of the Ukrainian forces could finally begin.

As soon as the Ukrainian forces tried to challenge the revived Russian formations, most famously in their failed 'counter offensive, the got beaten the hell out of themselves. Pressed to produced more gains the political leadership of Ukraine demanded that its troops attack everywhere and never retreat.

That fitted the political Russian aim of demilitarizing Ukraine. Defending from well dug positions and with an increasing advantage of artillery and air power the Russian forces decimated attacking Ukrainian forces.

At the end of last year the Ukrainian military started to change its tactic. For a lack of forces and material it had to go into a defensive mode. The Russian forces, now fully equipped and battle ready, started their offensive campaign:

Today, the situation is grim. The fighting has slowed to a cruel slog that works to Russia’s favor. Ukraine runs low on troops and munitions, while Russia maintains both in plenty. The long-planned, high-risk, months-long Ukrainian spring 2023 counteroffensive failed, with Ukraine unable to regain territory seized by Russia. Support for Zelensky in Ukraine and the West has finally slipped. American aid is logjammed in Congress, and the U.S. seems tired of funding the war.

Over much of the past two years, following those predictions of immediate Russian victory, analysts and policymakers have gone in the other direction with a new set of misjudgments: that the Russian Army is a paper tiger; that the generals will turn on Putin; that Ukraine will bleed Russia out in Donbass.

The reality, two years in, is that there is no path to victory for Ukraine, at least not in the sense of pushing Russian troops back to 2021 lines of control. After Ukrainian troops abandoned Avdiivka following some of the war’s heaviest fighting — the most significant loss or gain by either side in nine months — almost all advantages accrue to Russia.

War, as seen by the Russians, is a slow process that requires that all elements, political, civilian and military, are synchronized. In that view winning this or that battle does not matter much. It is the long term approach that makes the difference. It takes time to achieve the steady state that over time creates victory. Only when that state is achieved can the real destruction of the enemy begin.

Russian forces are currently attacking in all directions. The Ukrainian forces lack personnel as well as munitions. It is only a question of time until the Ukraine has to give up and to seek peace under whatever unfavorable condition.

There never really was, and is no longer a way, to change that path.

The $60 billion aid package held up in Congress will not significantly change the future. This fight is a long haul one that will require additional aid. The spigot will close at some point — perhaps soon — turning off aid and sealing Ukraine’s fate.

The endgame in Ukraine is approaching fast. It may indeed come much sooner than many are today willing to admit.

Comments

387
“It’s a professional fight not a street fight’-
Re u serious?
All the sneaky terrorists attacks against Russian soldiers, officials, civilians, children,…u call professional fight?
Plus Comparing with an USJew boxing hollywood show event
Hahaha”
Posted by: SlowSoft | Feb 24 2024 14:14 utc | 394
So have the “sneaky terrorists” slowed down the Russian war machine? Of course not.
The ‘terrorist attacks are but pinpricks, de minimus events that have no bearing on the SMO in the long term.
The West does it to psyche job: to confuse people such as yourself that they are actually accomplishing something when they are actually getting the RWO to rust the West much less…
BYW:” US Jew? “Ali was a Shia Muslim and Don King, the the Kinshasa fight promoter, is a back Baptist

Posted by: canuck | Feb 24 2024 14:32 utc | 401

“@canuck | Feb 24 2024 13:44 utc | 382
I saw Sy on Utube-I believe it was Russel Brand’s and it seemed his ‘best before ‘ date has occurred.
I think you are being too kind. He can’t have it both ways, i.e. be an “investigative journalist” until his inconsistencies are pointed out and then be excused by “his ‘best before ‘ date has occurred”.”
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 24 2024 14:23 utc | 400
Perhaps, you are right.

Posted by: canuck | Feb 24 2024 14:33 utc | 402

Posted by: Paul | Feb 24 2024 14:19 utc | 397
The war in Ukraine also serves as a distraction for presently occurring crisis in the US financial system (also spilling over to rest of the west). Real estate markets are currently in serious death woes, which causes massive delinquencies in commercial and residential real estate debt, which causes large problem for banks, causing risks to customer deposits, and forces central banks to decrease interest rate and increase money printing at a time when inflation is already much higher, industrial production and now services in decline.
They are in a financial zugzwang. An alternative way is simply steal peoples deposits and assets a.k.a. bail in banks, which might be coming this time around.
With powerful economic blocs and competition, the west will fall into a banana state in contrast to powerful growing Russian economy, and Chinese economy which despite all claims in MSM does not collapse, yet thrives.
The wars are distraction from the end game financial zugzwang. That is why they will probably get worse.

Posted by: unimperator | Feb 24 2024 14:34 utc | 403

What did the US lose ? A global Hawk ? Peanuts.
Posted by: Micron | Feb 24 2024 12:31 utc | 362
“The USA have lost a peninsula and a lot of land in the east of Ukraine so far, there will probably be a lot more to come, and it looks like no army in the world can take that back from the Russians. Is that peanuts ?”
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Feb 24 2024 14:20 utc | 398
Oliver you are right on-=many posters don’t see the proportionality that you adroitly pointed out.
They get worried about a sick three foot pine tree dying in a 400 km forest of 100 foot white pines.

Posted by: canuck | Feb 24 2024 14:35 utc | 404

Posted by: unimperator | Feb 24 2024 13:11 utc | 371
I could believe that US drones have recorded enough radio traffic to be able to subsequently hack or jam the FoF channels but, for a target like the A-50, it’d be worth fielding a ground or air launched missile with a custom booster for extended range.
Standard rules and weapon specs don’t apply when there is time to plan and carry out a novel attack on a high value target. This logic applies to all high value targets (military and civilian), the big individual losses all support this statement of the obvious.
Logically, the A-50s have been operated on the basis of a calculated risk. They provide unique defensive coverage of missile attacks against Russian territory but they cannot be operated safely under the current circumstances.
Producing replacement aircraft of the same type is a mammoth undertaking that is apparently still ongoing. The only vaguely comparable (airborne) systems that are in active production are the radar sets carried by Russian interceptor jets but whether these radars could be pressed into service is another matter.

Posted by: anon2020 | Feb 24 2024 14:38 utc | 405

I’m waiting for someone to suggest that the only way forward for the US is some sort of truth and reconciliation body, where all the cogs of the current and past corruption machine confess their numerous ‘sins’, either that or another revolution by a dedicated minority.
Posted by: Milites | Feb 24 2024 10:19 utc | 339
…………………
Chabad Rabbi X:
“What you say is reasonable, noble even but…..
How about a little World War first, eh?”

Posted by: Scorpion | Feb 24 2024 14:39 utc | 406

Bloomberg’s Matt Levine reports:

War securitization
Hugo Dixon, Lee Buchheit and Daleep Singh propose some financial engineering on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine:

Ukraine has an indubitable claim under international law for the damages caused by Russia’s unprovoked of Ukraine. For its part, Russia has legal title to approximately $300 billion of assets (held in the name of the Russian Central Bank and the Russian Federation) that have been frozen by the G7 countries since 2022. The problem is that the country (Ukraine) to which reparations are owed does not have custody of the frozen assets and the countries (the G7) that do have custody of the frozen assets do not have a claim for reparations against Russia.

Ukraine has a good legal and moral claim on Russia’s money, but it can’t get the money. The G7 countries (the US, UK, Canada, France, Germany, Italy and Japan) are holding onto a lot of Russia’s money, but they have no legal or moral claim on the money. The trick is to transfer Ukraine’s claim to the G7 countries, so the G7 countries can transfer the money to Ukraine.
I suppose one way to do that would be to literally sell the claim — Ukraine has a valuable asset (the claim on Russia), and maybe someone who could better enforce it would pay for it — but a roughly equivalent way would be to put it in a box and lend some money against the box:

Ukraine could raise up to $300 billion through a syndicated loan provided by G7 governments. The loan would be collateralised by Kyiv’s claim for war damages against Moscow. In the most likely scenario that Vladimir Putin refuses to pay reparations, the G7 syndicate would “set off” the Kremlin’s $300 billion of frozen assets against the claim for reparations. …

A reparation-backed loan would create a mechanism by which legal title to the claim for reparations — an indubitable claim under international law — can be placed in the hands of parties with the legal and practical ability to satisfy that claim from Russian assets. …
The loan will be structured as a “limited recourse” obligation. This means the syndicate will agree to look solely to the collateral (the reparations claim against Russia) as the source for repayment of the loan.

It’s not quite selling the claim, but it is more or less equivalent. One thing it would mean is that any peace negotiation between Ukraine and Russia wouldn’t be able to resolve the reparations question:

When Putin eventually sits at a negotiating table, he will surely demand his money back. The reparation loan structure has the advantage of giving the G7 countries a direct financial interest in NOT returning the money unless Russia pays reparations. Among other things, that entitles the G7 to a direct seat at the negotiating table. Without it, Ukraine could easily be bullied into surrendering its reparations claim as part of an armistice.

Once it sells the reparations claim, Ukraine can’t waive it.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2024-02-22/put-the-money-in-the-boxx

The search for bagholders increases.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2024 14:45 utc | 407

About the A50, it appears that 40 of them were built, two sold to India.
So far 8 or 10 have been upgraded and are the ones actually in use so maybe we will see some of the 30 remaining in the near future, maybe togheter with the A100.

Posted by: Mario | Feb 24 2024 14:47 utc | 408

Yes I’ve read that Russia is at war with Ukraine mostly by the western MSM, however its an SMO, if Russia had been at war with Ukraine it would surely have if not flatten Kiev, then softened it up and then taken it, and proceeded to take the whole of Ukraine, but this hasn’t happened.
I’d venture to say that this is why this SMO has reached its second year anniversary, if you want to call that.
Now its all but certain that Ukraine will be defeated and lose much of its territory to the East. I’ve also read that one interpretation of the name Ukraine is borderlands, in conflicts borderlands sometimes change hands again and again.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 24 2024 14:47 utc | 409

Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2024 14:45 utc | 409
In other words, they will transfer Ukraine’s claim of the Russian $300 billion assets (or income from it) to G7 countries. Who then may (or may not) give some money from the income to Ukraine. There’s also a more than decent chance that instead giving money to Ukraine, the money will actually be given to US defense manufacturers and/or directed to propping up the western financial system.
Meanwhile, stealing assets is a one time event. Russia can reply in kind, I believe western companies have a similar amount of FDI in Russia. In fact, a lot of them are already and a lot more will be operating with new ownership in the same manner as pre-war.
Why? Because Russia does not need anything from EU or US based companies to survive. Non of them are so-called strategically important businesses, everything can be replaced by alternate non-western suppliers and a lot of them have already been replaced.
Meanwhile, stealing state assets can only cause harm for a reserve currency status. US by the way will not for now steal assets, they are allowing EU to steal Russian assets as a test bed to see what happens. Worst case the Euro might implode from losing of utility outside the EU, best case nothing serious happens to the euro. So US is waiting to see the results of the test before committing to anything.

Posted by: unimperator | Feb 24 2024 15:00 utc | 410

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 23 2024 16:13 utc | 1
Musk is the largest MIC contractor. Any chance of him succeeding?

Posted by: AI | Feb 24 2024 15:05 utc | 411

Posted by: Exile | Feb 23 2024 16:38 utc | 6
Remember Operation Citadel in 1943?

Posted by: AI | Feb 24 2024 15:09 utc | 412

they will transfer Ukraine’s claim of the Russian $300 billion assets
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 24 2024 15:00 utc | 412

What is proposed is more than that. They are looking for a counterparty to underwrite the risk of Russia maintaining ownership over their frozen assets.

Posted by: too scents | Feb 24 2024 15:11 utc | 413

https://t.me/remylind21/15131

🇷🇺🇺🇦 “Night Hunter” of the 429th motorized rifle regiment with the call sign *Bear* brilliantly landed (shot down) another “Baba Yaga”.

https://t.me/remylind21/15126

🇷🇺🇺🇦 Rare Footage of the destruction of the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ P-18 radar by a Russian Kh-35 missile in the area of ​​the village of Vladimirovka. …

Posted by: anon2020 | Feb 24 2024 15:20 utc | 414

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 24 2024 8:08 utc | 314
Gonchardnko has answered: https://t.me/oleksiihoncharenko/40197

Posted by: Passerby | Feb 24 2024 15:24 utc | 415

Anyone have any proof that it was an A-50, or are we just going off of circular reposting of information from a handful of TG channels and the “mysterious” way that a couple of usernames show up at the bar like clockwork anytime something bad happens to Russia. The same ones that essentially never comment on posts about other subjects?
I’m not saying it wasn’t. I am saying that an assumption that it was has led conversation to F-22s shooting down a Russian plane in Russian airspace and the idea that Russia should start launching missiles at NATO assets outside Ukraine. For some reason there’s a desire among parts of the pro-Russia crowd for Putin to act like Biden would. But of course that thought is never followed to a logical conclusion that asks what Biden like behavior has achieved for the US.
I do agree that the US/UK will up the ante in terms of provocations. The strategic issue though is whether those provocations can or will change facts on the ground. The answer is probably no, which means that they can and should be ignored in the grand scheme of things. The point of the provocations is to get Russia to overreact and make a mistake. That provocations deserve a response is true but the timing, type and specifics of the response are important. Perhaps Russia isn’t concerned with winning the next news cycle like the US is.

Posted by: Lex | Feb 24 2024 15:27 utc | 416

Posted by: Paul | Feb 24 2024 14:19 utc | 397
“The war in Ukraine also serves as a distraction for presently occurring crisis in the US financial system (also spilling over to rest of the west). Real estate markets are currently in serious death woes, which causes massive delinquencies in commercial and residential real estate debt, which causes large problem for banks, causing risks to customer deposits, and forces central banks to decrease interest rate and increase money printing at a time when inflation is already much higher, industrial production and now services in decline.
They are in a financial zugzwang. An alternative way is simply steal peoples deposits and assets a.k.a. bail in banks, which might be coming this time around.
With powerful economic blocs and competition, the west will fall into a banana state in contrast to powerful growing Russian economy, and Chinese economy which despite all claims in MSM does not collapse, yet thrives.
The wars are distraction from the end game financial zugzwang. That is why they will probably get worse.”
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 24 2024 14:34 utc | 405
Yes that is the main Western show-fianincail Armagedon being camouflaged by overseas war.
If the US Fed (owned by the City btw) lowers rates they doom the American dollar -if they keep the rates the same or move them up they destroy their economy.
Banks no long have to mark their bonds to market if they hold them to maturity so many banks have 10, 20, 30 year US bonds that are worth 20-60% less when they bought them in the market during covid. However, as happened last (March 31 seems to be the quarter all the major banks to do the most disclosure, I don’t know why) year when depositors took their money out that California bank the bank was forced to sell liquidate the undervalued bonds to pay them their deposits NOW WE SEE who was not wearing their trunks when the tide goes out- and were bankrupt in a month.
unimperator is right buy gold or your favourite asset (seedcorn, art, real estate in a jurisdiction the taxes are low et al) and keep the custody to yourself.

Posted by: canuck | Feb 24 2024 15:35 utc | 417

Ukrainians are claiming they used an S200 missile to down the A50. This theoretically has the range, depending on type and modifications, and with NATO targeting assist might not need to use Ukrainian based RADAR. Not sure why it couldn’t be tracked and downed during flight, perhaps too little warning. RADAR homing, so flares probably ineffective. Need to jam the targeting signal. 217kg fragmentation warhead so pretty lethal coming in at mach 6.

Posted by: the pessimist | Feb 24 2024 16:01 utc | 418

@titmouse | Feb 24 2024 7:37 utc | 310,
Thanks for your comments. It seems that you know Chinese related matters along with Japan and Korea as well as the western ones.
IMHO, utopia may be close but not exactly what Da-Tong-Shi-Jie is. Confucius himself described about Da-Tong-Shi-Jie in the first paragraph from Chapter Li Yun in Book Li Ji. Japan and Korea were heavily influenced by Confucianism so it is not surprising that they have this concept with the very similar pronunciation.
Another important concept in Confucianism is Shì (士). A Shi may work in the government or serve as staff for government officials. A traditional Shi had to learn six categories of skills- manner (Li), music (Yuè), archery (Shè), chariots (Yù), history (Shū), math (Shù). A good or ideal Shi should strive to serve the people. Since Confucianism got promoted by the government from early Han Dynasty and onward, the related concepts became more or less embedded in Chinese culture until early 1900. Nowadays, it is probably no longer the case now, especially in Taiwan after Li Teng Hui and following regimes gradually remove Chinese elements from its school curriculums. There was a period that CPC suppressed Confucianism. But my understanding is that the concepts in Confucianism gets more positive treatments now.
How does the west view the ideal of utopia? Is it a goal/idea that people try to achieve or just a fiction? Is the so-called socialist/socialism the closest to that ideal in the known western political spectrums?

Posted by: LuRenJia | Feb 24 2024 17:05 utc | 419

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5utNSrX5aA
Display of NATO equipment captured in Avdeyevka.

Posted by: Waldorf | Feb 24 2024 17:18 utc | 420

Why No Escort Aircraft?
If the A-50s are relatively defensiveless against either missiles or other aircraft, and are an extremely high valued and limited weapon, why is there no fighter escort? Even if Russian combat aircraft have no anti-missle defensive, it could act as a decoy to misdirect the missle away from the A-50.

Posted by: Jerr | Feb 24 2024 18:14 utc | 421

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 24 2024 1:12 utc | 24
Thanks for your genuinely inspiring posts.

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Feb 24 2024 18:42 utc | 422

Pacifica Advocate | Feb 24 2024 3:02 utc | 279–
Thanks for your well-reasoned reply. It’s possible that Team Biden will make another mistake and try to grab the frozen assets, which will prompt a very damaging asymmetric response from Russia and RoW. The RoW G-20 members are clearly against any further moves by the Empire to damage the international trading system, and such a move would do just that showing the absolute need to wall off the Empire and its vassals from all nation’s financial systems. The Global Fracture I’ve described would then become very real amd very damaging to the dollar system and those attached to it.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 24 2024 19:25 utc | 423

after having read 426 posts on this thread, i have another comment to make.. i am temporarily without my mainframe computer and using my wife’s ipad.. typing on it is a pain..
william gruffs commentary is the most compelling on this thread, but again there are many insightful commentators here which i value and appreciate..
yes, the west, usa/uk and friends play dirty, and yes, russia has not responded yet in kind..those are facts, but much else here is speculation.. i don’t fully by the conclusions william offers, but i appreciate how he frames it and think it is worth emphasizing..
as for my earlier comment on microns @ 118 post, aside from his opening line, there was merit in his post.. however in his later posts he has shown himself to be a poor analyst and flat out wrong.. oh well..
moscow exiles presence here at moa is a very welcome sight.. how are mark and jen doing at the kremlin stooge?
norwegians posts are appreciated.. i concur with them.
unimperstor, lex. and some other posters here are always worth reading and paying attention to..
thanks everyone.. a most fascinating thread for revealing the insights and speculations of some of the regulars and not so regulars here…

Posted by: james | Feb 24 2024 21:45 utc | 424

“Losing two A-50 is for me equivalent to losing an entire city or a province)”
Posted by: Micron | Feb 24 2024 9:03 utc | 324
Don’t bother with the semantics or sophism. You know you dun wrote some troll bait when you wrote this, and are thinking of all the silly ways you could defend this ridiculous statement.
But nothing you can say will make this statement less ridiculous.
Posted by: UWDude | Feb 24 2024 9:45 utc | 330
Micron is way off base-the A-50’s are 1985 planes and the cost for building the 2 was roughly $700 MM US dollars.
Consider that Russia lost $300 billion in reserves and didn’t miss a step, micron is drinking heavily or he had a fight with his wife and it thinking unclearly.
C
Posted by: canuck | Feb 24 2024 14:25 utc | 403

Spare me the cheap attacks. Unfortunately you seem to be oblivious to some pretty basic considerations.
Russia is not building any new AWACS. They are upgrading some old airframes. Until proven otherwise (and I will have no problem admitting it if someone shows me proof in the form of Russian press releases), Russia has lost the industrial capacity to build new such planes.
So the cost is way more than 700m$. It’s the cost of re-doing an entire assembly line, training workers, recreating almost a small industry or plant. It’s billion dollars we’re talking about.

Posted by: Micron | Feb 24 2024 22:30 utc | 425

In the grand scheme of things, Russia lost 100.000 able-bodied men, two A-50 worth more than their weight in gold, its flagship cruiser, and so on and so on… What did the US lose ? A global Hawk ? Peanuts. On the positive side of the balance sheet their military complex has been making tens of billions of dollars. That’s the hard truth we all have to face. And that Russia will have to face if it wants to get serious.
Posted by: Micron | Feb 24 2024 12:31 utc | 362
Hello Micron. I agree with you that Ukraine has lost, but I disagree that the US hasn’t lost. Yes, Russia has lost men and material but those can be replaced (callous maybe, but it’s true). But the US has lost something of far greater value, which is far more difficult to get back – prestige.
Thirty years ago no one disputes the fact that the US was top dog, and it was a unipolar world. The US military was the envy of the world, and almost everyone wanted to be an ally of good ole Uncle Sam. Now where are we? Two failed wars, and abandoned allies from the Kurds to the Afghans. Some of that can be hand-waved away because that’s the periphery – Afghanistan’s not a core US interest. But Ukraine, in the heart of Europe? Now, that can’t be excused.
When the US abandons Ukraine, and it is when not if, what do you think that will do to America’s allies – their psyches? Do you think they second-guess American commitment to them? Who would trust the US to help them? The Taiwanese? The South Koreans? The Japanese? The Germans? The Lithuanians?
Prestige and reliability are more valuable than gold in international relations. America and its big economy, its strong military, its vast nuclear arsenal can’t be trusted to help when the going gets tough. Memories are long and states don’t forgive betrayal. That’s what Russian victory in Ukraine means.

Posted by: James M. | Feb 24 2024 22:47 utc | 426

billion dollar loses are in interest rates needed to pay for debts. trillion dollar loses in afghan and iraq.
but who won the superbowl?

Posted by: jjson1490@yahoo.com | Feb 24 2024 22:49 utc | 427

Posted by: Micron | Feb 24 2024 22:30 utc | 428
You’d think the main problem in creating an AWACS aircraft is not the fuselage, but radar sets, creating the addons, housings, mountings, wiring and terminals to interpret them. Any pre-existing cargo or passenger aircraft could basically be designed to do it.
Is it really that hard or expensive? Or what is the problem?

Posted by: unimperator | Feb 24 2024 22:56 utc | 428

Wow. Just wow.
Yes – The West conducted the Maidan Coup – ie – taking the initiative – and Russia took Crimea and supported the DPR & LPR in response. Yes – it was a reactive move by Russia responding to The West grabbing Ukraine.
If The West hadn’t grabbed Ukraine – THE RUSSIAN ACTIONS IN CRIMEA & DONBAS would never have happened.
The West acted and Russia reacted:
The FACT you seen to think Russia would have taken Crimea and supported Donbas without The West supporting the Maidan coup is ASTOUNDING.
Absolutely incredible James.
Amazingly – you also believe The West’s line that the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022 was UNPROVOKED.
No James – the Russian invasion of Ukraine WAS NOT UNPROVOKED!!
How can you even think that?!?
Seriously mate.
The Russian invasion was 100% provoked – Ukraine upped their shelling attacks on Donbas in early-mid February 2022 and forced a Russian response.
You seriously need to read the OSCE Reports on Ukraine & Donbas from February 2022 – you seriously have no idea given you don’t know this.
In other words – The West had a timeline and they needed a Russian invasion of Ukraine in February 2022 – and Russia obliged and did so – REACTIVE.
Why?
Because The West had a timeline to blow up Nord Stream in mid 2022 and they needed the Russian invasion to get the pretext.
They forced the Russian invasion and got the pretext.
I still can’t believe you think the Russian invasion of Ukraine was unprovoked.
Just wow.

Posted by: Julian | Feb 24 2024 13:37 utc | 381
I never said the invasion was unprovoked, I said Russia instigated certain actions which surprised the West. This is true. In the minds of Western Color Revolution planners, their goal is only to topple the regime. They expect the populace to fall in line and follow the new trajectory. But this almost always fails – in Ukraine (Orange Revolution, 2004, and Maidan 2014) Georgia (Rose Revolution), and Kyrgyzstan (twice). Instead there is pushback, some of it organic some of it assisted by Russia, by the populace.
I don’t know why this surprises the US but it does, and they don’t have any contingency plans to deal with it. My guess is because they still have limited influence in these countries. In Ukraine post-Maidan the Russians were more proactive, openly taking Crimea, and helping foment rebellion in the Donbas. And now, they have taken the fight completely to Ukraine. Where is the precedent that the West expected this? The answer is they didn’t.
Russia was tired of playing defense so they went on the offense, taking the initiative away from “NATO”, the US, the West, whomever, and thus the timeline is now controlled by Russia. Make sense? I know this stuff is hard, but try to keep up.

Posted by: James M. | Feb 24 2024 23:03 utc | 429

Canucklheads to give $3 B To Ukraine in 2024! Now that’s what I call true dough!
Ukraine Signs First Security Agreement with a Non-European Country
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/02/24/7443522
“The document envisages Canada allocating over CAD $3 billion in macro financial and defence assistance to Ukraine in 2024, Zelensky posted on Telegram.”
And there is no other political parliamentary party that wouldn’t do the same. Nor is there a Canadian ‘left’ worthy of the name, that will contest it. No wonder the Zio-Nazi lobbies love our politics so much. Nazi clappers.

Posted by: John Gilberts | Feb 24 2024 23:13 utc | 430

Mockingbird.
MK Ultra.
Everything is silo’d. There are networks within networks. The name on the building is (literally) facade.
Posted by: Scorpion | Feb 24 2024 14:09 utc | 390
MK Ultra was Pre-Church Committee, and those weren’t assets anyway. An asset is a specific term with a specific role. Mockingbird was a myth. And you mean compartmentalized, but that doesn’t mean it stays secret forever…

Posted by: James M. | Feb 24 2024 23:17 utc | 431

You are way off base. Tucker is a patriot . He not a young Sy Hersh yet, but he may beome like him.
Posted by: canuck | Feb 24 2024 13:36 utc | 380
Didn’t know you were friends with him. Fine, Tucker is a patriot, but probably only as long as it is convenient for him.

Posted by: James M. | Feb 24 2024 23:26 utc | 432

@ 433 john gilberts…. sad, but true.. i am voting ppc, maxine bernier as a protest vote..

Posted by: james | Feb 25 2024 0:02 utc | 433

LuRenJia at 422, thank you for replying! 🙂 Yes, the concept of Shi would be roughly translated to a Gentleman nowadays, particularly after the secular revolutions (the NeoClassical emphasis on reason leading to the rise of Republics (Corsica, Haiti, US, France, etc.), leading to the democratization of once class-reserved concepts of chivalry and nobility,).
The Western knighthood educational equivalent would be the Seven Liberal Arts: (trivium) grammar, rhetoric, & dialectics; (quadrivium) arithmetic, geometry, music, & astronomy.
Further there would be expected religious & moral training, along with courtly manners, grace, and gentility, boiling down to a moral code where a man is expected to be well-rounded, restrained in his power, and a defender of the weaker. It is extremely similar to East Asian educational, moral, and cultural programs. Also it is not reserved there alone, as the rest of the world (Americas, Africa, Oceania, South- Central- North- and West-Asia) has similar educational, moral, and cultural programs.
🙂 Take heart! The whole entirety of earth is just as internally civilized, very familiar with such mutually intelligible concepts. Feel free to start this dialogue anywhere and you will find eyes recognizing analogous principles. Similarly the whole world is filled with malcontents seeking power to shape the world to their own dream. 😉 See: reality as it is since time immemorial.
As for Utopia? It is now seen with great cynicism while at the same time strived for with utmost zeal. You see it even now, from all factions within, if you take time to really see. The West has always had this extreme psychological split in hope and disillusionment, just like everywhere else that gets trapped in the swamp of cultures stuck on building monuments and imperial dreams. 😉 Europe and Asia birthed similar children over the millennia, nothing is ever that novel.
In the West it was tried in Renaissance, trying to be reborn with humanity and individuality in the center. Then again in NeoClassicism with reason in the center, then again in Romanticism with evocative empathy at the center. And again with Liberalism with let-be and scientific progress! at the center, and again with Communism (the proletariat and labor) and Fascism (business elite) and Modernism (again with the science, plus historical disillusionment, now no longer looking to the past!) at the center. Then Post-Modernism with individuality and acceptance of incoherence at the center… You get the picture.
Forever chasing paradise on earth, when the answer was love one another all along. We all don’t get to stay here that long anyway. 😉 We’re all not going to agree — that’s the paradise. The challenge is minimizing the harm, because for some that infliction of agony is their paradise. So as you can see it cannot be, because all of human struggling comes back to the question of Evil.
Does evil exist? And if it does, what do you do about it that itself in act is not evil? Or do you have to learn that self-defense and survival is an ‘evil’ you have to live with in a world that can never be perfect? And is perfect itself a delusion that forever blinds us to the potential paradise already among us?
Again, old ideas, globally recognized, never fully solved. We are so very much the same and understand each other. And you see the same threads in these current events, so Ukraine and Israel are a mere another knot in the lengthy human tapestry of suffering. Pure flow is stillness, without turbulence are you even here? Welcome to earthly paradise, you can never leave, but can check out anytime. Enjoy your stay!
🙂 Off to warble in the brush!
/cheep cheep

Posted by: titmouse | Feb 25 2024 0:37 utc | 434

Re: Posted by: Oliver Krug | Feb 24 2024 14:20 utc | 399

The USA have lost a peninsula and a lot of land in the east of Ukraine so far, there will probably be a lot more to come, and it looks like no army in the world can take that back from the Russians. Is that peanuts ?

What?
The US has NEVER in history controlled Crimea.The US has NEVER in history controlled Donbas.
The US controls more of Donbas now (via Ukraine) than it ever did before 2014.

Posted by: Julian | Feb 25 2024 1:15 utc | 435

Re: Posted by: James M. | Feb 24 2024 23:03 utc | 432

I never said the invasion was unprovoked, I said Russia instigated certain actions which surprised the West. This is true. In the minds of Western Color Revolution planners, their goal is only to topple the regime. They expect the populace to fall in line and follow the new trajectory. But this almost always fails – in Ukraine (Orange Revolution, 2004, and Maidan 2014) Georgia (Rose Revolution), and Kyrgyzstan (twice). Instead there is pushback, some of it organic some of it assisted by Russia, by the populace.
I don’t know why this surprises the US but it does, and they don’t have any contingency plans to deal with it. My guess is because they still have limited influence in these countries. In Ukraine post-Maidan the Russians were more proactive, openly taking Crimea, and helping foment rebellion in the Donbas. And now, they have taken the fight completely to Ukraine. Where is the precedent that the West expected this? The answer is they didn’t.
Russia was tired of playing defense so they went on the offense, taking the initiative away from “NATO”, the US, the West, whomever, and thus the timeline is now controlled by Russia. Make sense? I know this stuff is hard, but try to keep up.

Please. The West knew Russia would react – did you miss all the talk of an imminent Russian invasion of Ukraine in January/February 2022?
It was EVERYWHERE!
How would The West justify all the sanctions and blowing up Nord Stream if Russia didn’t invade?
Do you really think Ukraine could fight Russia basically to a standstill for 2+ years if they weren’t prepared for a Russian invasion?
They expected and wanted a Russian invasion and deliberately provoked it – it was the expected response that their plans have been based around.
If you are now claiming the Russian invasion WAS PROVOKED – then you have a serious case of cognitive dissonance going on here.
You seem to think The West deliberately provoked Russia and were then surprised Russia were provoked!

Posted by: Julian | Feb 25 2024 1:21 utc | 436

Posted by: Micron | Feb 24 2024 22:30 utc | 428
The AWACS platform is a Cold-War concept that had its life span artificially extended by the conflicts it has served in, fast forward to the SMO and that concept is now under serious threat. Not only is the platform vulnerable to ever more capable AD/AAM systems, but it also needs protection on the ground from an ever-increasing number of threats. Technological miniaturisation allows for the replacement of one valuable asset with more numerous, cheaper alternatives, allowing redundancy to be built in, with little drop in overall capability.

Posted by: Milites | Feb 25 2024 1:48 utc | 437

by Naive | Feb 23 2024 23:57 utc | 204
Oh, I agree totally with certain Russian citizen:
People over-analyze ‘I should have done that earlier’ by Putin, as his mistake. One of many, as trusting the West, asking for NATO membership, etc
Also that is the narrative sold.
And it is wrong too. In 2014 he couldn’t do much as he could in 2022. And Trump bought him extra 4 years. In 2015 contracts for the Black Sea Fleet bases were ending. He did what he could. There is a deeper reason, not yet written about, why Putin is holding his horses and bears, as a resistance against NATO.

Posted by: whirlX | Feb 25 2024 3:46 utc | 438

by titmouse | Feb 25 2024 0:37 utc | 437
Pretty swell read. Not that everything, that is typed I agree with, but an interesting perspective, truly.
Any solutions proposed?

Posted by: whirlX | Feb 25 2024 3:55 utc | 439

by Milites | Feb 25 2024 1:48 utc | 440
In the Russian case, AWACS is needed for a triangulation of a low flight doctrine that Ukrainian aviation is deploying. Same as Aerospace forces are doing in their SU-25.
Space aspect is also important, as there are times when satellites are not orbiting over.
A-50 A-100 and I think some TU-160 have coupling ability with ground and sea based radars, and some EW complexes. I still didn’t see the drone with a radar mounted on.

Posted by: whirlX | Feb 25 2024 4:17 utc | 440

Please. The West knew Russia would react – did you miss all the talk of an imminent Russian invasion of Ukraine in January/February 2022?
It was EVERYWHERE!

One month before – my grandmother knew Russia would invade. But it wasn’t something the West expected or planned for. They figured it out too late.
You seem to think The West deliberately provoked Russia and were then surprised Russia were provoked!
Posted by: Julian | Feb 25 2024 1:21 utc | 439

Yes, exactly, now you’re getting it. Except the West doesn’t think they’re provocations. It’s really been going on since 1991. The West pushes and pushes, the expansion of NATO, the bombing of Serbia, the Color Revolutions, and so on. They don’t expect pushback to all this, they expect acquiescence. When Russia does push back they are surprised and have no response to it. Hence, their dilemma over Ukraine.

Posted by: James M. | Feb 25 2024 5:15 utc | 441

How would The West justify all the sanctions and blowing up Nord Stream if Russia didn’t invade?
Do you really think Ukraine could fight Russia basically to a standstill for 2+ years if they weren’t prepared for a Russian invasion?
Posted by: Julian | Feb 25 2024 1:21 utc | 439
One more point on this. Sanctions wouldn’t have been implemented and Nord Stream would not have been blown up if Russia hadn’t invaded. Truthfully, the West doesn’t want to do those things to Russia. They want Russia to be like them, with a compliant head of state – but that cannot happen because of a lack of trust between Russia and the West.
The West is wary of Russia, and may have some contingency plans, but that’s not saying much. I think the US Pentagon has, at any given time, invasion plans against 30 different countries, but they’re poorly thought-out. Once put in motion events cannot be controlled or directed by some puppet master in the international system.
I know some of you may think there is some CIA Master Plan to control everything, but the world doesn’t work that way. There is anarchy in the system, and nation-states can act in unpredictable fashions. States do have grand strategies but they have to be shaped according to the realities they face. Thus, plans are almost always reactive, and go back a long time.
Follow this chain of logic – the Russian SMO is a reaction to Maidan, which was a reaction to the 2010 Ukrainian election, which was a reaction to the Orange Revolution, which was a reaction to Kuchma retiring. So we’re already 20 years in the past over four US presidencies. Putin goes back further.
So yeah, no the West was not prepared for this, not in the way you think. Oh sure, they throw money at Ukraine, and send weapons to them, but no avial, there is no standstill. Russia will win, Russia was always going to win, and the West is definitely not prepared for that.

Posted by: James M. | Feb 25 2024 5:55 utc | 442

In my opinion the dates are set, in 2025 the actual conflict with the USA and Russia will expand and Europe will fight Russia again
All the rhetoric and war preparations in the west go only one direction, evil Russia and the Putin must be beaten into oblivion
Ofcourse this is delusional and can’t be fought conventionally by Russia and tactical nukes will be used pretty soon and from both sides
How that ends is crystal clear
The populations in Europe seam to sleepwalk into this desaster without real interest
Additional the Gaza massacers take partly their attention away from the real goal of the global satanists
Years ago when the Deagel population Report for 2025 was puplished everybody thought what a load of BS this is…
https://cdn.getmidnight.com/6908ab1f9a9ecdaba4ee2509cb3451aa/files/2022/09/Deagel-2025-Forecast-by-Country.pdf
But by now it starts to make some kind of sense
So will the US bring Europe the apocalypse? We will very soon find out

Posted by: 🌶️Mike | Feb 25 2024 6:06 utc | 443

I think they didn’t need 1/40 troops/population ratio because 1/4 of the population would help the russians and another 1/4 would flee immediately.

Posted by: Tiago | Feb 25 2024 10:18 utc | 444

I beg to differ a bit on Russia’s goals when the war started.
Ukraine’s army had been trained for a guerrilla war. The US never believed it could stop Russia and instead had planned to organize a new “Afghanistan” if Russia ever conquered the country.
Russia’s goal was regime change. Its tactic was a kind of “shock and awe” that helped it conquer large territories with hardly any fighting. Occupying the center of Kiev with the parliament and ministries might have been enough.
Unfortunately for Russia it wasn’t fast enough and then it lost momentum. There were two reasons: one was blunders on the Russian side, with the traffic jam of tanks in the north as most famous example. The other was that NATO officers in Ukraine made a lot of effort calling every Ukrainian official and officer they knew to put up resistance, which then was coordinated by NATO.
Once it had lost momentum Russia found itself in an impossible position. In the Kiev-Sumy region the frontline was meandering, resulting in hundreds of kilometers of frontline in a relatively small densely populated area. That was an ideal situation for the Ukrainian government to organize guerrilla attacks as it was impossible to stop infiltrations. As the Russian troops hadn’t been trained to deal with this, this led to a deterioration of the relations between the Russian troops and the population.
So Istanbul was Russia’s best bet. But without that it had little alternative but to withdraw. To conquer Kiev at that moment it would have needed almost all the active troops it had. And it would have resulted in a Mariupol style devastation.
After that the US needed some time to reorganize the Ukrainian army for frontal war (instead of guerrilla). In that time Russia conquered towns like Izyum and Lysychansk. But once the conversion of the Ukrainian army (with Starlink, satellite information, precision artillery and drones) was completed it was Ukraine that – with much more soldiers at the frontline – dominated the battlefield. The result was Ukraine’s successful Kharkov offensive and Russia’s withdrawal from the right bank of the Dnieper.
It were those failures that alarmed Russia, led to mobilization, building of the Surovikin lines and other measures that laid the basis for the present successes.

Posted by: Wim | Feb 25 2024 10:37 utc | 445

Thanks whirlX at 442! 🙂 And it is a good thing you do not agree with all of it, otherwise you wouldn’t be fully you (in Chinese metaphysical thought, you wouldn’t be actualizing your Te, your full authentic self — the good and the bad. A common topic in the Book of Changes, I Ching,).
Solutions? Well first, what problems? 😉 I know, I know, rhetorical flourish masking as wisdom, but there is something there. Just as in “Candide” we are asked to stop depressing ourselves with impotence in a world greater than us, or chase the illusion of power and finding more problems, we should: “tend to our own garden.” Do what you can do and be present. 🙂
As for disatisfaction with life’s horrors? Think of the ancient Chinese allegory of the vinegar tasters: three taste vinegar, one says sour, second says bitter, third says sweet. Often correlated further as the three major philosophical traditions that shaped dynastic China: Confucianism saying sour, the world needs to be improved; Buddhism saying bitter, the world needs to be rejected for our salvation; Taoism saying sweet, the world holds a beauty underneath if we can just flow with it.
I’d add salt and savory (umami) nowadays because tears and excitement are just as much a part of life. And notice how often we have these flavors in combination, ever changing, ever negotiating for recognition? Who knew one of the wisest sense organs was the tongue with its taste? 😉 To each season its own seasoning, to each tongue its own taste (gustibus no est disputandum; no arguing with taste). Hah, a dad joke! 😀
The palate guides the individual with its temperament to its preferred solutions for the times. 🙂 Another seemingly cop out answer, but everything else ever centered for human universality has failed and is failing. So maybe anything ever centered such in the future will fail, too? Maybe stop universalizing that which is to be central. Maybe the answer is let the many mouths say their piece to find their way to peace? Tend your garden, season your plate, and enjoy the good company while you can.
See? I’m useless. 🙂 Off to catch grubs!
/cheep

Posted by: titmouse | Feb 25 2024 11:25 utc | 446

Latest Canadian contribution to Nato-Nazi Ukraine:
Trudeau Signs $3-Billion Security Deal For Ukraine on 2nd Anniversary of Russian Invasion
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-kyiv-ukraine-russia-1.7124330
“Prime Minister Justin Trudeau signed a deal in Kyiv on Saturday committing Canada to a $3.02-billion security assistance package for Ukraine, a milestone event to mark the second anniversary of Russia’s full-scale invasion.
‘This is a moment for us to both thank Ukraine and demonstrate our solidarity’, Trudeau told Canadian reporters following a virtual meeting of G7 leaders…
The $3.02-billion funding commitment from Canada is for the current year. How much will be committed over the 10-year lifetime of the agreement is not clear.”
*They should have called it a mill-stone event. Canada has now spent in excess of $20 billion on Ukraine since the US coup in 2014. Meanwhile, housing, healthcare and social infrastructure in Canada is deteriorating rapidly. Perhaps some of the UNRWA funds Canada cut to help Israel are now going to Nazis in Ukraine – before being channeled to the United Snakes’ arms industry, of course. Hurry up Russia!

Posted by: John Gilberts | Feb 25 2024 15:22 utc | 447

Apologies if someone has posted this; I don’t want to take time to read the whole thread. A US airman immolated himself at the Israeli embassy in Washington:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13125477/airman-aaron-bushnell-Israel-embassy-dc-washington.html

Posted by: Gene Poole | Feb 26 2024 12:52 utc | 448