Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 23, 2024
Ukraine Can No Longer Win – It In Fact Never Had A Chance To Win

A former U.S. Colonel opines in The Hill:

Ukraine can no longer winThe Hill, Feb 22 2024

 Welcome to the club, I'd say, but its nearly two years to late for that. Ukraine lost the war on February 24 2022, the day the Special Military operation had started.

There never was a chance for Ukraine to win.

I will first let the Colonel recap the established narrative to then add my observations to it:

Two years ago, the Ukrainian Armed Forces defied expectations immediately. Days before Russia’s massive combined arms incursion, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley spoke for the U.S. military when he predicted to Congress that Kyiv would fall within 72 hours.

Many military analysts similarly predicted the Russian Armed Forces would quickly rout the overmatched Ukrainians. American leaders encouraged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to leave the country, lest Russian troops assassinate him.

These projections of immediate success for Russia misread the progress Ukraine had made in capability and readiness since Russia’s 2014 annexation of Crimea. They also overestimated the Russian forces’ readiness, air superiority, and command cohesion.

That is all – somewhat – true.

There were expectations that the Russian forces would quickly conquer Kiev and overthrow the sitting government. However, the Russians never applied the necessary manpower to do so. Pacifying and holding an enemy city in modern times generally requires abound 1 soldier per 40 inhabitants. When the war started Kiev had about 3 million inhabitants. Taking and holding the city would have required some 75,000 troops. But the Russian forces never deployed more than 40,000 troops into the general direction of Kiev.

Thus the military aim was not to take the city. It was to apply pressure to achieve a political aim.

Immediately after the war had begun the Ukrainian government had agreed to hold peace talks. Over the next weeks these were held first in Belarus and later in Istanbul. In late March, after Ukraine had agreed during the negotiations to not join NATO, Russia made the good will gesture of pulling its troops back from the capitol. But in early April the U.S. and UK intervened and pressed Kiev to abolish negotiations.

The western political and military leadership had simply misread the Russian aim, thought its military was weak and had come to the wrong conclusions.

That also happened in the following phase:

One year ago, all signs were encouraging. Ukrainian forces had been bloodied, but they held on to territory in the east in defiance of expectations. Successful counteroffensives allowed Ukraine to regain territory in the south. Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy defiantly declared the coming year one of “our invincibility.” American aid to the country offered a king’s ransom in artillery and anti-tank weapons through the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative, and the flow seemed unceasing.

Inspired by Ukraine’s stunning success against the much larger and more advanced military, the West galvanized behind Zelensky and his troops. Tragically, all these indicators led to unrealistic expectations.

Russia has started the war with its military structured in peace-time formations. It had only used its standing forces, not any conscripts or mobilized troops, to launch the Ukraine campaign. The main organizational structure of Russian troops at that time were the Battalion Tactical Groups.

Excursus: During Soviet times the military had the classic war-time structure of Divisions with 4 to 5 Brigades each of which each had 4 to 5 Battalions each of which had four to five Companies. Such structures require lots of people.

To save money Russia did away with the Division layer. The Motorized Infantry Brigades, consisting of one tank Battalion, two motorized infantry Battalions and two artillery Battalions, were shrunken into Battalion Tactical Groups.

About a third of the artillery and tanks formations were eliminated as well as half of infantry. Instead of some 4.000-4.500 soldiers in a Brigade formations the Battalion Tactical Groups had each kept only 2,000 men. The no longer manned and needed equipment was put into storage.

The peace construct of a Battalion Tactical Group was a lot cheaper than the people intensive Brigade structure but still had about 2/3rd of the original fire power. The idea had always been that, should a war happen, the BTG structure would be re-filled with mobilized men and restored equipment to again become a full-sized brigade. – End Excursus

It was not until August 2022, after the failure of another round of negotiations, that the Russian leadership decided to go on war footage. A mobilization was launched, equipment was pulled from storage and peacetime BTG formations were revived into full Brigade structures. The Division command layer was reestablished. All this required time and retraining. The war industry had to be set up to support a longer fight.

There is a saying: "The Russians are slow to saddle but ride fast." It can be applied here.

During 2022 to early 2023 the sparse Russian forces were required to use economy of force. Positions of less value were guarded by a minimum of forces (Kharkiv, Kherson). When those forces came under pressure the positions were simply given up. Defensive lines were build to guard more valuable ground.

By spring to summer 2023 the Russian forces had (re-)grown to full war power. The systematic destruction of the Ukrainian forces could finally begin.

As soon as the Ukrainian forces tried to challenge the revived Russian formations, most famously in their failed 'counter offensive, the got beaten the hell out of themselves. Pressed to produced more gains the political leadership of Ukraine demanded that its troops attack everywhere and never retreat.

That fitted the political Russian aim of demilitarizing Ukraine. Defending from well dug positions and with an increasing advantage of artillery and air power the Russian forces decimated attacking Ukrainian forces.

At the end of last year the Ukrainian military started to change its tactic. For a lack of forces and material it had to go into a defensive mode. The Russian forces, now fully equipped and battle ready, started their offensive campaign:

Today, the situation is grim. The fighting has slowed to a cruel slog that works to Russia’s favor. Ukraine runs low on troops and munitions, while Russia maintains both in plenty. The long-planned, high-risk, months-long Ukrainian spring 2023 counteroffensive failed, with Ukraine unable to regain territory seized by Russia. Support for Zelensky in Ukraine and the West has finally slipped. American aid is logjammed in Congress, and the U.S. seems tired of funding the war.

Over much of the past two years, following those predictions of immediate Russian victory, analysts and policymakers have gone in the other direction with a new set of misjudgments: that the Russian Army is a paper tiger; that the generals will turn on Putin; that Ukraine will bleed Russia out in Donbass.

The reality, two years in, is that there is no path to victory for Ukraine, at least not in the sense of pushing Russian troops back to 2021 lines of control. After Ukrainian troops abandoned Avdiivka following some of the war’s heaviest fighting — the most significant loss or gain by either side in nine months — almost all advantages accrue to Russia.

War, as seen by the Russians, is a slow process that requires that all elements, political, civilian and military, are synchronized. In that view winning this or that battle does not matter much. It is the long term approach that makes the difference. It takes time to achieve the steady state that over time creates victory. Only when that state is achieved can the real destruction of the enemy begin.

Russian forces are currently attacking in all directions. The Ukrainian forces lack personnel as well as munitions. It is only a question of time until the Ukraine has to give up and to seek peace under whatever unfavorable condition.

There never really was, and is no longer a way, to change that path.

The $60 billion aid package held up in Congress will not significantly change the future. This fight is a long haul one that will require additional aid. The spigot will close at some point — perhaps soon — turning off aid and sealing Ukraine’s fate.

The endgame in Ukraine is approaching fast. It may indeed come much sooner than many are today willing to admit.

Comments

Pacifica Advocate: “….back in 2016, over on SST(before Lang went bonkers):”
My god, he sure did. Back then his site was daily reading for me, and I respected his judgment, even though his ideological commitments were, as he put it, paleoconservative. It seemed around the time of Biden’s election he lost his bearings. Any details on that sad deterioration?

Posted by: dadooronron | Feb 23 2024 23:46 utc | 201

Wehrmacht also bled to death,but at a horrific cost. The fact is that NATO “acquired” an entire army since 2014 which was thrown against a Russia that still struggles with the consequences of the demographic haemorrhage of the 90s. THe globalist vermin have openly declared that they will use even more advanced assets to attrite the Russian army while hitting also far in the rear.
Now you may claim that “NATO” bleeds in the form of the AFU and the Ukrainian state, but the people who run the show in that abominable organization do not seem perturbed in the least and neither does the western citizenry. And it is obvious their pre-existing sociopathic tendencies are becoming more unhinged, because they believe that they will never face any threats whatsoever, no matter how provocative they become. Is this not clear to you? Am I exaggerating their misanthropic depravity?
As for my point that seemed snarky to you, well, the cost has been already too high for those serving in the fight (civilians too) and the imperialist bastards are willing to increase it. For some, however, it’s not that big of a deal, even as the citizenry in their countries is unwilling to pay any price at all. I tend to take a dismall view of such an approach.
Posted by: Constantine | Feb 23 2024 23:05 utc | 178
———————-
Well a “horrific cost” was “baked into” this whole affair one way or the other and comparing the SMO to WW2 on the RF end is an extreme exaggeration.
As for attritional effect on the on the RF, the opposite is true their armed forces have gotten numerically stronger and more experienced.
Hits into the RF rear would require nukes or sustained, large-scale conventional bombing to be truly effective. Not occasional harassment raids, the effects of which are usually quickly overcome.
The Western citizens are mindf**ked or so preturbed by their own provincial problems, they’ve little true thought to spare for Ukraine.
The misanthropic regimes in the West are currently cannibalizing their own societies, the effects of this are manifest in the growing dysfunction of those states. Particularly the militaries which have decayed rapidly. As very few are willing to actually die in service of those regimes.
Those in charge of said regimes do in fact feel threatened internally by all this, which is why they’ve become so hysterical & bellicose and thus unintentionally (on both ends) created the very “Russian threat”, that used to be a mere propaganda trope.
So *one* A-50 (not two) probably lost since the start of the year and less than a handful of sundry other aircraft.
Won’t change the odds for NATO’s one real fighting army even a little bit i’m afraid. The only way they’ll stop Russia winning is by going nuclear.
Which is why Russia has shown an excess of caution. why take bold risks, when eventual victory is certain? That might be shi**y and boring at times, but…
—————
No worries. Russia and Putin will just blame the attacks on evil Nazi Ukies and not at NATO directly operating those weapons. Putin and his lovers are great at coping too.
And here’s a guy who smacks Putin’s butt Every chance he gets. Too bad he’s behind a paywall now.
https://thedreizinreport.com/
Posted by: Surferket | Feb 23 2024 23:02 utc | 177
————–
Fair enough.
Yet, no-one copes better than the NAFO-Ukie or doomer-concern trolls.
After all a lot of NATO operators have died too, and at a time where their manpower isn’t getting replaced due to lack of willing recruits.
Fact is, this war was decided long-ago, when Russia didn’t instantly implode due to sanctions. There was no “Plan B” after that.
That’s why we see endless NATOland propaganda alongside f**k around & hope psudo-strategy.
Lastly, Dreizin is just a grifting glorified edgelord, with a sideorder of maniacal Zionism.

Posted by: Urban Fox | Feb 23 2024 23:53 utc | 202

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 23 2024 23:39 utc | 195
You forgot to mention the Burevestnik. Shoigu just explained that Russia has weapons with no equivalent in the west. Go figure.
In München the main emotion of the participants was fear. Now when people here are also afraid of what they imagine could happen in the future with no argument to support their views, except their own instable emotions, they show very clearly to which side they belong now.

Posted by: Naive | Feb 23 2024 23:56 utc | 203

They are afraid
I reread at once the words of all the main speakers of the Munich conference and I had an impression: they are afraid. True, they were afraid of an inevitable defeat. They realize that there is nothing they can do about it, but that they can only try to delay their defeat in the hope that something will happen to stop it.
Europe is following the same path as the Roman Empire
Almost everyone said that the sanctions had not worked, that Russia was increasing its weapons production every month, and that there were also new Russian anti-satellite technologies for the forum.
They are afraid and above all that their struggle for liberal pseudo-democratic values will be supported by fewer and fewer forces, and that the world will wake up more and more and begin to understand that the future belongs to national states, because globalizers lead to the degradation of the very essence of Humanity and Man.
They are afraid of Russia, they are afraid of China and above all they are afraid of the friendship between Russia and China.
They’re scared. They are ready to give everything at the slightest chance. And in the end, the opposite happens: they lose everything and Russia accelerates the mobilization of industry, but the most dangerous thing for them is that Russia is slowly increasing the militarization of society, which in the end always ended the same way for Europe… Moreover, the extension of the mandate of the Special Military Operation gives Vladimir Putin the opportunity to correct not only the mistakes of his 20 years of rule, but also those of his predecessors, which leads to a radical strengthening of the state.
And the longer the war lasts, the more changes there will be, the stronger Russia will become and Europe weaker. And when the Russian army approaches the Polish borders and the inhabitants of Ukraine can find out the whole truth, then there will be a real threat that their desire to take revenge on those in the West who unleashed enmity, who developed hostile intentions and started a war within the united Russian people.
And the West understands this. And it scares him.
Roman Alekhin,
Russian Citizen

Posted by: Naive | Feb 23 2024 23:57 utc | 204

Posted by: jared | Feb 23 2024 17:31 utc | 27
Initially, Russia was thinking a daring decapitation raid (a counter-coup), for which the Ukrainians would thank them. Seems like a case of bad intel.
Much to the West’s frustration, the Ruskies saw the situation and re-thought / adapted – not fighting fair.
Absolutely spot on. Initial RF intelligence was either very bad (I doubt this) or severely compromised in getting to the top strategists and decision maakers (more likely IMO).

Posted by: Barrel Brown | Feb 23 2024 23:58 utc | 205

Re: Posted by: Johnny Dollar | Feb 23 2024 20:04 utc | 93

The A50 was reportedly shot down in the Kanevsky district of the Krasnodar Territory of Russian Federation.
If in fact the Ukrainians shot that thing down in that location, then it seems to me the NATO AWACS airplanes which operate in similar distant locations from the battlefield are fair game for the Russians.

The Russians will do no such thing. They will turn the other cheek.
You know this and I know this.
Russia does not want to get NATO involved.
What this means in practice is that NATO will choose the time it gets involved – not Russia.
Just like NATO chose the time this conflict would begin – not Russia.
Make of that what you will, but Russia does not want the initiative and wants to only be in a reactive position following the timeline that NATO sets out and chooses.

Posted by: Julian | Feb 24 2024 0:00 utc | 206

Yes, it may happen. But the empire then runs the risk of a real escalation on Ukraine. Imagine the RADA in Kiev being precision hit with missiles when its full of politicians? Imagine shopping malls being blown to bits in Lyviv?
UKRAINE WILL PAY THE PRICE OF US/NATO ESCALATION.
Posted by: HERMIUS | Feb 23 2024 23:21 utc | 185

Imagine the entire lengths of Broadway and Wall Street entirely eradicated on a Friday afternoon.
And then throw in Capitol Hill for good measure.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 24 2024 0:01 utc | 207

And let’s not forget those nuclear-powered torpedo drones that can loiter around the seabed of a port some thousands of kilometers distant that Russia could also be inclined to arm with nuclear munitions.
Boom! Poof! The US baby disappears in an hour or two.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 24 2024 0:04 utc | 208

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Feb 23 2024 23:37 utc | 192

I agree that if this does turn into WW3 the USA/UK will redefine and far exceed the horrors of the Third Reich.
Got distracted by the A50, but for the sake or argument I’ll contest b’s premiss, or move beyond it. Does it matter that Ukraine failed, I mean it certainly did last summer but does it now? Militarily to the USA I’m a talking about not existentially or in the abstract.
Assume the USA has willfully scrapped everything that happened until now, failed counter offensive, Avdeevka, all water under the bridge. Now starts a new phase of the war where what Ukraine does or doesn’t do, whether it can hold the Russians back to the Dnieper, try to take Crimea, etc, no longer matters, all it needs to do now, to succeed for the west, its masters, is to keep Russian infantry busy while being an otherwise pure, hollow expression for NATO air and missile power against Russia, an excuse and a platform for NATO to turn the SMO around on Russia, create its own SMO with its own expanded ambiguity that allows NATO to fight full on, hitting deep inside Russia at critical military and industrial sites while having it still contained within the proxy Ukrainian state, take it right to the razor edge of WW3 and forcing Russia to chose if it can handle that, to attack outside of Ukraine.
Not saying that’s how it’s going to go, but it’s a possibility, especially from an actor that has shown only rabid extremism and no historical or practical sense till now.

So I suppose you’re going to tell me this is a “War of Attrition” and Russia has no interest in occupying more than 20-25% of Ukrainian territory – that Russia has already won the Ukraine war and it’s a waste of time to occupy Ukrainian territory beyond what they already do.
I’ve been told that plenty of times – occupying territory is irrelevant to this conflict – don’t you get it’s a war of attrition?
So I suppose you agree with that viewpoint – like the consensus at the Bar.
Given that – how do you stop what you’re describing happening indefinitely?

Posted by: Julian | Feb 24 2024 0:06 utc | 209

Make of that what you will, but Russia does not want the initiative and wants to only be in a reactive position following the timeline that NATO sets out and chooses.
Posted by: Julian | Feb 24 2024 0:00 utc | 206
Totally incorrect. You should face facts. The west/Nato completely miscalculated Russia’s strength and resolve in this conflict. The west was actually SHOCKED when Russia started its offensive BECAUSE they thought Russia was weaker than it was. When it did invade, the west/NATO then concentrated on Putin losing power in Russia, a Moscow Maydan leading to a weakened Russia. Another major miscalculation.
And now, the west has painted itself into a corner. If it does nothing to prevent a Ukrainian defeat, it will be seen as a paper tiger. Yet if it involves itself directly, it risks nuclear annialation.
The choice is theirs, not Russias!

Posted by: HERMIUS | Feb 24 2024 0:11 utc | 210

Russia does not want to get NATO involved.
What this means in practice is that NATO will choose the time it gets involved – not Russia.
Just like NATO chose the time this conflict would begin – not Russia.
Make of that what you will, but Russia does not want the initiative and wants to only be in a reactive position following the timeline that NATO sets out and chooses.
Posted by: Julian | Feb 24 2024 0:00 utc | 206
You’re only half-right. Russia doesn’t want NATO involved, and NATO itself doesn’t want to be involved. You keep banging this drum that NATO will be involved but offer up no evidence. Tell me why NATO would fight nuclear-armed Russia over a non-member? And how that would come about?
And how do you get this argument that NATO chose the timeline for the Ukraine war? Maybe with the Maidan coup (although that was the US not NATO), but it was Russia that swiftly took the Crimea, it was Russia that instigated rebellion in the Donbas region, it was Russia that invaded Ukraine. All those actions shocked the West. They had very little reaction to them.
Yet, now you’ll saying that NATO or NATO members are ready to go to war with Russia? None of those countries are on a war-footing, and they’ve already given Ukraine their best weapons. Meanwhile, Russia has ramped up a wartime economy, and has a battle-hardened army, expecting a NATO attack. Truthfully, they’ve been expecting a NATO attack for 70 years.
So what advantage does “NATO” have over Russia? “Oh noes its the NATOs, they’re coming, let’s surrender” said nobody in Russia…
NATO/the US/UK will blink over Ukraine.

Posted by: James M. | Feb 24 2024 0:11 utc | 211

If reports that a Russian A50 has been shot down is true that’s poor show by Russians. It may be friendly fire or NATO missiles.
At the time a US navy P8 was making rounds in Romanian air space over the Black Sea. I tracked it in flight radar 24. Surely it got something to do with the incident.
Most Russian valuable aircraft and ship losses are due to attacks around the Black Sea. Russia must take Odessa and beyond to deny Ukraine access to the sea.

Posted by: Jason | Feb 24 2024 0:11 utc | 212

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 23 2024 23:39 utc | 195
ou have really hit the nail on the head. This is what I have been thinking since 2022. Shoigu said it – perhaps now because nearly is very, very nearly.
“we have a fairly high stage of completion of work on Poseidon, Peresvet, Petrel, Sarmat, and Avangard – two regiments are already practically in service”
Russia has been going slow because it KNOWS it has to defeat the USA but its weapons are only at a “high stage of completion.” In other words, Russia is delaying as long as possible until its weapons are ready AND are in mass production. My guess is Shoigu made that public comment (which sort of undermines Putin’s bluff of 2018) because now it is no longer bluff.
That is what that idiot Prizoghin did not get (Idiot or traitor from day one – who knows).
Now do not get me wrong. Putin was not exactly bluffing because the weapons were real etc, but they were still in development. He was very sensibly trying to scare the yanks off – It worked for a while but it was just a tad premature.
My suspicion is that sometime about now, the bluff is no longer bluff. Maybe a month or three away.

Posted by: watcher | Feb 24 2024 0:11 utc | 213

LightYearsFromHome @192: “[NATO] hitting deep inside Russia at critical military and industrial sites…”
That’s not what NATO will do. As I said, they are going to hit purely civilian targets. They are going to aim for mass civilian casualties. The goal is to exceed conceivable levels of vicious barbarity.
People really need to reread Naomi Klein’s “Shock Doctrine”, and seriously this time. Try to face the level of psychotic villainy the world is up against here.

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 24 2024 0:17 utc | 214

psychohistorian @196
I apologize for offending you, and I know you are on the right side of things, but this is definitely a street fight we are looking at. Failing to acknowledge that puts Russia at an extreme disadvantage.

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 24 2024 0:19 utc | 215

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 23 2024 23:39 utc | 195
Also I stick to my original view that Russia was spooked/forced to invade Ukraine prematurely ie before they were ready. I am not sure why but my guess is it was the nuclear weapons threat, made so clearly and the Munich conference. I do not think it was a coincidence that the SMO was just three days later.

Posted by: watcher | Feb 24 2024 0:20 utc | 216

dadooronron | Feb 23 2024 23:46 utc | 201

Armstrong is as good as ever, but sadly hounded into silence under threat of legal abuse by his Canadian government.
Col Kang, though…his professionalism seemed to me to start deteriorating back in the early Trump era. Not really anything huge, just an increasing intolerance for dissent against his espoused “paleoconservatism”. He was always prickly on certain matters, but up until 2021 or so more-or-less maintained at least the image of free debate.
Then he got the Covid jab. He went down for three months or so saying only that he was suffering “complications”, and after that his posts to the blog precipitously deteriorated in their quality.
Not long after that Lang disappeared, later died, and TTG assumed control. Larry Johnson has openly commented on that process. Now, the blog is merely an outlet for letter-agency propaganda of the most venal and transparent order.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 24 2024 0:21 utc | 217

Re: Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 23 2024 22:53 utc | 170

I don’t want to sound like the shitty concern trolls, but I do want to get this out there.
NATO will be/is moving long range missiles into the Ukraine. They will strike targets deep in Russia. What do you suppose NATO will target? Airfields? Maybe. Critical industries? Perhaps. Nuclear power plants? Definitely.
You’re thinking wrong, and the Russians are as well. psychohistorian thinks this is a gentleman’s fight, perhaps slapping one’s opponent with your kidskin glove. Naive nonsense. From the imperial perspective this is a knock-down-drag-out, winner-takes-all and death to the loser street fight. I doubt many here are at all willing to contemplate just how dirty the Empire of Chaos is willing to fight. I’ll try to provide some ideas.
Consider video of St Basil’s cathedral in flames. What wonderful propaganda that would be for the Empire! You are a naive fool if you don’t think the Empire’s strategists are salivating for that, ‘specially if they can hit it when it is packed to capacity with worshipers.
How about video of rescue workers carrying corpses out of the smoldering ruins of the Bolshoi Theater? Prime target of the Empire, folks.
Or how about just popular shopping malls demolished while filled with shoppers? Crowded movie theaters leveled to the ground? Crowded parks or skating rinks? Music festivals? Stadiums hosting major sporting events?
These are the things the Empire is going to hit. You are naive fools if you refuse to see it, but I am laying it out now so you cannot pretend it is inconceivable when it happens.
And it will happen.

As you’ve said to me many times – this is an “Attrition War” and Russia is not interested in occupying territory.
Given, from what you’ve said, Russia will not be occupying much more than 20-25% of Ukrainian territory, how do you propose Russia prevents missiles being launched as you suggest, from Ukrainian territory against Russia?
Also – as many here have said – Russia is in no hurry and benefits the longer this conflict goes on – so there is no reason for Russia to even bother with advancing the front westward much this year or next, they can take their leisurely time.
It’s an interesting perspective (that I don’t share), but you have repeated to me the “Attrition War” line many times to “poo-poo” the idea Russia needs to grab the real estate to actually end the war.

Posted by: Julian | Feb 24 2024 0:28 utc | 218

Russia has been going slow because it KNOWS it has to defeat the USA but its weapons are only at a “high stage of completion.” In other words, Russia is delaying as long as possible until its weapons are ready AND are in mass production. My guess is Shoigu made that public comment (which sort of undermines Putin’s bluff of 2018) because now it is no longer bluff.
Posted by: watcher | Feb 24 2024 0:11 utc | 213
Like Putin said in an interview around that time. We will die as martyrs, but they will simply die.
He has also said something about making Russia so strong, nobody will attack it.
Russia is and has been -since 2002 – preparing for the worst, and trying for and hoping for the best.
With the current insanity of the ‘west’, anything could happen.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 24 2024 0:29 utc | 219

Patroklos | Feb 23 2024 23:44 utc | 200–
With all due respect, the West can’t be “morally reinforced” until its cleansed of its evil components, and that will take some time to do.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 24 2024 0:36 utc | 220

Naive | Feb 23 2024 23:56 utc | 203–
I forgot nothing as I was directly citing Shoigu.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 24 2024 0:38 utc | 221

Posted by: James M. | Feb 23 2024 23:44 utc | 199
You have no clue about people’s social lives, so keep it out of the discourse. One could call you a basement dweller in turn, but that would not be much of an argument. But having a clown denouncing old-time folks here as trolls and anti-Russian posters is scummy. He can go get buggered with a cactus for all I care.
The arguments made are easily available in the posts and there is no need to use strawmen. The increasing quality of the Russian army is no excuse to avoid putting the screws on the NATOist scum for directly intervening in the conflict. Directly, as it has been acknowledged by the Kremlin too.
The point about the attack on Engels isn’t debatable either. Again, consider if anything remotely similar in the reverse would be acceptable to the Anglo-American leadership. But the latter feels it can commit acts which would be unthinkable for other states (Russia and China included), inflicting grievous harm on so many people.
In the end, the Russian leadership will hopefully respond appropriately to this escalation. But the losses should not be discounted by folks who aren’t afected by them, nor should they be treated as insignificant, because the AFU, NAto’s new toy army is being decimated. Its entire purpose, after all was to be used as a battering ram against Russia and bleed the latter as much as possible. Had the AFU been left without NATO’s ISR and advanced tech, its ability to serve said purpose would have been severely diminished.

Posted by: Constantine | Feb 24 2024 0:39 utc | 222

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 23 2024 23:39 utc | 195
Posted by: James M. | Feb 23 2024 23:44 utc | 199
Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 24 2024 0:04 utc | 208
Posted by: HERMIUS | Feb 24 2024 0:11 utc | 210
Posted by: watcher | Feb 24 2024 0:11 utc | 213
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 24 2024 0:29 utc | 219
At least several comments do not follow the line of Girkin or Prigozhin who are viewed as traitors.

Posted by: Naive | Feb 24 2024 0:39 utc | 223

Going by the press, political rhetoric, and public attitude I see in Canada, I don’t think the West will stop escalating until it has no other choice. There is absolutely no political opposition to the Russophobic bullshit from any of our four national political parties. Also, all of our media are anti-Russian, Nazis invited to the House of Commons notwithstanding. I know Canada is a follower but if that’s the sentiment here, 0ther countries are likely far more rabid.
I sure hope I’m wrong.

Posted by: spudski | Feb 24 2024 0:39 utc | 224

@ dadooronron | Feb 23 2024 23:46 utc | 201
I also much appreciated Lang’s contributions to the blossoming blogonews environment. He was one of the OG pioneers of what many of the younger folk now take for granted.in their quest for objective and accurate news-gathering.
I always appreciated Lang’s insight—which he always shared generously—into the arcana of Washington/Pentagon bureaucratic mechanisms and political responsibilities. Lang also delivered a huge bit of personal experience from within the intelligence communities. His observations about domestic issues, tough…meh. He had a lot he needed to learn, there. Particularly vis a vis the illegalized drug industry, and the status of darker skinned peoples in the estimation of Western European elites.
From the early oughties to the late teenies he was an invaluable source. RIP, Col. We didn’t agree on much, but you were a genuine patriot.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 24 2024 0:40 utc | 225

“USA and only because they have a magic printing press. However that printing press is running out of magic smoke as the USA is $35T in debt, they have $10T in bonds maturing this year that pay under 1% interest at present but will have have to pay at least 4.5% when they roll over … that is IF there is a market for them at all. The last few bond sales haven’t gone well. Americans are finally going to have to start living within their means.
Russian OTOH is resource rich, has excellent cash flow due to an abundance of marketable raw materials and very little debt. Russia did a lot more than invade Ukraine 2 years ago. They signed a large number of strategic trade deals with China on the eve of the SMO that included the modernization, networking and automation of their manufacturing. Just the other day I read about massive Russian purchases of advanced CNC mills from China. Russia is tooling up for war. You can see it already in Ukraine and if the past is any indicator they will build a massive military force at a time when the USA is struggling with recruiting with an aging air force and navy and the magic printing press running out of smoke.
Russia is smart to take it on the chin for the moment … their time will come. there is that old dictum about “choosing the time and place of battle” I’m sure they will have their day.
Posted by: HB_Norica | Feb 23 2024 22:08 utc | 147
You have hit the nail on the head as to what is going to stop the confused, lumbering Giant/gnat in DC.
The retreat back to whence it was born of the U.S. dollar reflect the price in the U.S. Stock Market. Not an increase in value of shares, but an excess of U.S. dollars and debt created out of nothing during the Covid Mirage.
All wars are inflationary. Russia has the natural resources, the motivated people, and serious manufacturing.
The USA and Europe manufacture Narratives. Whether they are marketable or not.

Posted by: kupkee | Feb 24 2024 0:40 utc | 226

Forgive me here, but a lot of this has to do with how one brings a population to accept the necessity of war. Putin was successful in shoring up popular support, the key to long-term commitment. You don’t just give them a bottle of vodka and a gun and say ‘take that hill’. There must be a home front as strong or stronger. The episode from Olivier-narrated ‘World at War’ (1973) on ‘The Home Front’ is revealing: Britain became the USSR, a socialist state where all set aside their individual lives and pitched in, from movie stars (Bogarde, Niven) to the Royal Family (growing veggies in Buck palace gardens). Propaganda, to be sure, but don’t underestimate the extraordinary solidarity that allowed Britain simply to carry on in the face of collapse (Dad’s Army is worth re-watching as most of the actors were in the war).
Goebbels knew it, Stalin knew it, and the US sure knew it—the home, the rear, the R&R, the war bonds, the letters from girls back home, Bob Hope and the USO… at least as big if not bigger than the actual fighting forces. Morale and commitment in depth from a fully mobilized population.
All this has vanished from the West. We can bang on about escalation, but if the West cannot sell escalation to its population, then it can’t fight. And you really only get one Pearl Harbour. Tonkin, 9/11, WMD, Oct 7 etc—each time it happens cynicism and doubt is the reaction, especially when the West is revealed to be more interested in MIC shareholders than actually ‘winning’ (whatever that means).
The reason why Hollywood makes so many ww2 films? A huge effort to keep alive a memory of the first and last time the West fully mobilized with (what it believed to be) total moral legitimacy. The nostalgia is proportional to the absence of all that. Just watch Oppenheimer. FDR made war to prevent the US becoming socialist (the New Deal), and made the US socialist to win the war.
That historical moment created US hegemony, but the conditions for that moment are long gone…but as Emmanuel Todd has recently argued in his new book, Putin has created the conditions in Russia for a total national (economically left, socially conservative) revival. Together with Lavrov, he has achieved the necessary conditions for long-term victory.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 24 2024 0:41 utc | 227

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 23 2024 20:49 utc | 119
I seem to recall that it is illegal to be a Nazi organization member in Germany and yet somehow, their entire government is deeply in bed with a Nazi regime and sending them huge amounts of money and weapons and that’s legal?
Do I have that right?
<= seems to me most of the westernized governments fit this same scenario..? The so-called deep state owns all the westernized nation states and the governed people in the infected states have no say, are kept in the dark, and are treated to 24/7 malicious based false and misleading mind control propaganda content.

Posted by: snake | Feb 24 2024 0:42 utc | 228

Russia has been going slow because it KNOWS it has to defeat the USA but its weapons are only at a “high stage of completion.” In other words, Russia is delaying as long as possible until its weapons are ready AND are in mass production. My guess is Shoigu made that public comment (which sort of undermines Putin’s bluff of 2018) because now it is no longer bluff.
That is what that idiot Prizoghin did not get (Idiot or traitor from day one – who knows).
Posted by: watcher | Feb 24 2024 0:11 utc | 213

can you explain about Prigozin?

Posted by: vargas | Feb 24 2024 0:45 utc | 229

Exactly what NATO army is going to intervene in Ukraine?
The US has 1.3M service members total, spread across desks and combat units and ships, spread all over the world. Everyone else except Turkiye can barely field an army. And in all those cases they sent most of their equipment to Ukraine. We know that the US has sent at least 2.7M artillery shells and that it had to raid forward stocks in Israel and S. Korea to do it. How big does anyone think US artillery stockpiles were before this? Remember it’s a country that thought artillery was part of the past and could only manufacture 14k/month at full production.
Obviously NATO could still do a lot of damage, but it is in no position to fight a land war in Europe. If it chose to do so, the US would likely have to empty its capability elsewhere and the whole build up would take months. The US is currently holding bases in Syria with National Guard troops.
And all this is why Russia’s decision not to escalate into direct confrontation with the US is the correct decision. Americans hate each other. The only thing that might unite them is a war against Russia (or China).

Posted by: Lex | Feb 24 2024 0:48 utc | 230

Posted by: Lex | Feb 24 2024 0:48 utc | 230
And even if all of this were possible my point @227 is the necessary precondition.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 24 2024 0:54 utc | 231

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 24 2024 0:41 utc | 227
Splendid post with the exception on escalation on the part of NATO leadership. The zombification of much of the western populace along with the unhinged mentality of power-hungry supremacists can produce really untoward developments.
When Finland, a country that profited handsomely form its Cold War neutrality and could gain even more in the current crisis opts to become a frontline state in the hybrid and increasingly overt war against Russia, how could these people feel politically handicapped to escalate?
When Baerbock can openly assert that support for the war against Russia will continue regardless of the wishes of her constituency, do you see any actual desire by such politicos (and obviously their masters) to proceed cautiously?
Russia is led by individuals who follow international legal norms to a significant entent and recognize limitations in state power and interests. The west on the other hand is led by sociopathic vampires who are steeped in criminality and operate with absolute impunity. They have zero hesitation to eulogize a neoliberal fascist like Navalny, while subjecting Assange to a prolonged Calvary. I just do not see them backing down and I sincerely hope to be proven wrong.

Posted by: Constantine | Feb 24 2024 0:56 utc | 232

But the losses should not be discounted by folks who aren’t afected by them, nor should they be treated as insignificant, because the AFU, NAto’s new toy army is being eradicated.
Posted by: Constantine | Feb 24 2024 0:39 utc | 222

Fixed that for ya.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 24 2024 0:57 utc | 233

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 24 2024 0:41 utc | 227
It is obvipus that the potential NATO escalation suggested in this thread does not necessarily involve numerous divisions; quite the opposite in fact.

Posted by: Constantine | Feb 24 2024 0:58 utc | 234

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 24 2024 0:57 utc | 233
Sure, why not, but my point still stands.

Posted by: Constantine | Feb 24 2024 1:00 utc | 235

@209
“Given that – how do you stop what you’re describing happening indefinitely?”
Ukrainian morale is sinking fast. Even pro-Ukrainian propagandists in Western media are confirming this. The Ukrainian army’s taking a beating and there’s no way the troops’ willpower will hold out indefinitely.
Watch the interview Judge Napolitano conducted yesterday with Matthew VanDyke, an American at the battlefront who is a well-known advocate for Ukraine’s war effort. VanDyke – one of the last people we’d expect to say anything unfavorable about the Ukrainian army – acknowledges the Ukrainian military position is wilting badly.
Further, at this point, it’s established as fact that very few Ukrainian men are volunteering for military service. That’s the exact opposite of the situation in 2022, when enormous numbers of Ukrainians volunteered to fight for their country. This is evidence that Ukraine’s battlefield defeats over the past nine months – coupled with its horrifically high KIA and WIA levels – have destroyed Ukrainians’ confidence that the war can be won.
Just do a google search on Ukraine’s current conscription problems. You’ll see that even Western media, which normally suppresses information reflecting unfavorably on Ukraine’s war effort, is now compelled to admit the grim truth.
The war has reached its terminal stage because Ukraine, with a de facto population of only 30 million (excluding the 7 million Ukrainians waiting out the war in other countries), does not have the manpower to replenish troops lost at the front.

Posted by: GW | Feb 24 2024 1:01 utc | 236

Just to continue my thought experiment:
What would it take for all of us here to set aside our principles and views to get behind our nation, muck in, sign up, and go in for the big win? It is a hilarious question.
But the genius of FDR was that he got the American working class and left-wing intellectuals to fight WW2, in the main because he chose the right enemy (Fascism) and the right ally (USSR). FDR sold it to the likes of Hemingway as a Spanish Civil War Part 2, only this time we back the left.
That’s what it would have to take now. And Putin has the march on the West for all the reasons stated by Todd. Putin has the tradition of Russia, its people, its God, its culture and we have, well what? The right to change gender? We have NOTHING but neoliberal nihilism.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 24 2024 1:01 utc | 237

Posted by: GW | Feb 24 2024 1:01 utc | 236
In a sad way, this is a point of hope. That the maidanist will be unable to persist and function and that the Ukrainian army will enter a state of dissolution. This will shorten the conflict, reduce the level of losses for both peoples and will severely handicap the imperialists to engage in their escalatory shitfuckery.

Posted by: Constantine | Feb 24 2024 1:07 utc | 238

Listen peeps. NATO is shit scared of this conflict becoming nuclear. Its playing a risky game in order to protect its reputation (whatever that is).
Now is the time for Russia to deliberately knock out one of those NATO satellites giving information to Kiev. It could be justified as a defensive measure on Russia’s part.
If that happened, just you watch how quickly moves are made for a peace settlement.

Posted by: HERMIUS | Feb 24 2024 1:10 utc | 239

And the sad thing is I remember the 70s when the war was still something we were proud to have won (quite apart from whether any of it was true). I would dearly like to back a national project of renewal led by genuine reformers. If I were Russian I’d be seriously thinking of going back. Jesus, I think of becoming Russian just to be a part of something real. The literature, the language, the history, the belief… how much more compelling it must be for those who live there, especially after having also experienced this:

From 2000 to 2017, from roughly the beginning of Putin’s reign, the Russian rate of death from alcoholism dropped from 25 per 100,000 citizens to 8; from suicide, 39 to 13; from murder, 28 to 6. As for infant mortality, long the gold standard signifier of the level of a country’s development, under Putin it fell from 19 per 1000 live births to 4.4. Todd quotes UNICEF to note the American rate is currently 5.5 per 1000.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 24 2024 1:12 utc | 240

Posted by: Cabe | Feb 23 2024 17:33 utc | 28
Am sorry I did not read your comment 28 before I commented to Jared at 27 (my post @205).
I understand your sentiments but think that RF now has no option but to move deeper into Ukraine, and at least to the point where it undisputedly controls the Dnieper. Control of Karkov and Odessa would be good, but are not of immediate importance and without a complete collapse of the Kiev regime very difficult and risky to achieve as I understand current army dispositions. Nevertheless, absolute control of the whole Donbas would be an absolute bare minimum for the RF at this point.
I don’t think a cease fire or frozen conflict is in any way conducive to Russia’s short or long term interests – in fact in the words of that brilliant US diplomat A. Blinken “it should be a non-starter “.
My guess is that RF will continue to the Dnieper in a methodical fashion and wait for collapse of Ukie government or overt involvement of NATO forces (probably Polish/UK if this happens). Then the whole political and military situation changes-probably in a very dangerous way.

Posted by: Barrel Brown | Feb 24 2024 1:13 utc | 241

Posted by: James M. | Feb 23 2024 23:44 utc | 199
As I said to a colleague, who was extolling the tactical performance of the Germans on the Eastern Front, ‘whose flag, flew over whose capital, at the end?’ He did have the courtesy to acknowledge the point with a rueful smile.

Posted by: Milites | Feb 24 2024 1:13 utc | 242

watcher | Feb 24 2024 0:11 utc | 213&216–
Thanks for your replies. Shoigu reported Russia’s nuclear forces are at 95% level of modern weapons. Compared to the sorry state of the US-Triad and its lack of AD, I’d say Russia’s about as complete as it’s going to get. What keeps being built are more missile boats and subs to be outfitted with hypersonics and some nukes.
I see the Deep State elites as sensible cowards when it comes to nuclear war as they want to live and enjoy their toys and have sex with their concubines. They still have trillions they can reap via their rents and manipulation of governments; so, they really have nothing to gain and everything to lose by provoking a nuclear war that not even Cheyanne Mountain will survive.
Will they again resort to terrorism versus Russia as they did in the 1990s but on a different level as Bill Gruff suggests? Given that’s been ongoing since 2014, although the format’s been different, it’s already moved to attacking Russia proper, which IMO Russia had to expect. And IMO, Russia also anticipates the sort of escalation Gruff hypothesizes and has already spoken about what it will do in reply–attack the decision centers, and that would be London and Brussels. If that doesn’t halt the attacks, then DC would be next–all hypersonics without nukes.
Are the Brits and the Deep State Parasites also Genocidalists when it comes to both Palestinians and Russians? And what of their own survival? And if they survived, what would there be to enjoy?

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 24 2024 1:14 utc | 243

You have no clue about people’s social lives, so keep it out of the discourse. One could call you a basement dweller in turn, but that would not be much of an argument. But having a clown denouncing old-time folks here as trolls and anti-Russian posters is scummy. He can go get buggered with a cactus for all I care.
Posted by: Constantine | Feb 24 2024 0:39 utc | 222
Hit a nerve, eh? Fair enough, but likewise, you shouldn’t boast about how long you or others have been posting anonymously on someone else’s blog/message board about things you barely understand. It is just as meaningless.
At the end of the day I, and others, trust Russian leadership to do what is right by Russia, you and others do not. The outcome of the SMO will determine which of us was correct. Until then, this is all wind.

Posted by: James M. | Feb 24 2024 1:14 utc | 244

In short, for many it seems Russia and China stand for human social meaning, while our world stands for brutal fake emptiness and annihilation. There is a war coming, a civil war in the West against this cancer.
I’ll sign up for that.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 24 2024 1:15 utc | 245

@ Constantine | Feb 24 2024 1:00 utc | 235
😉 or ^_*

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 24 2024 1:19 utc | 246

Now is the time for Russia to deliberately knock out one of those NATO satellites giving information to Kiev. It could be justified as a defensive measure on Russia’s part.
If that happened, just you watch how quickly moves are made for a peace settlement.
Posted by: HERMIUS | Feb 24 2024 1:10 utc | 239
Careful now, some may call you a troll and a minion of Prigozhin. Too radical for some…

Posted by: Constantine | Feb 24 2024 1:20 utc | 247

Patroklos | Feb 24 2024 0:41 utc | 227–
Very much agree with your comment. I’ve been banging on how Russia has that Home Front and Ukraine doesn’t, and that’s 100% correct about the West generally.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 24 2024 1:20 utc | 248

The Russians will do no such thing. They will turn the other cheek.
You know this and I know this.
Russia does not want to get NATO involved.
What this means in practice is that NATO will choose the time it gets involved – not Russia.
Just like NATO chose the time this conflict would begin – not Russia.
Make of that what you will, but Russia does not want the initiative and wants to only be in a reactive position following the timeline that NATO sets out and chooses.
Posted by: Julian | Feb 24 2024 0:00 utc | 206
———————-
Cool story brah,
NATO doesn’t attack opponents who can actually fight back head-on. That’s why this is a proxy war, if they were going to do anything the time was 2022.
When Ukraine was as strong as it was ever going to get and Russia only had a peacetime military.
NATO is trying to make things akward for Russia out sheer butthurt that “Plan A” immediate implosion didn’t occur. That’s all, there is no other “plan”.
Now after the 2022 “sunk cost”, is irreversible. The whole mess is intended to launder money, justify internal policies in crushing dissent and shore-up their unpopular & discredited regimes.

Posted by: Urban Fox | Feb 24 2024 1:21 utc | 249

Posted by: vargas | Feb 24 2024 0:45 utc | 229
can you explain about Prigozin?
It is only a guess but here goes
First he was a mercenary – that says a lot – he expected rewards. As in Machievello – not to be trusted – ever
Second he was NOT a nice man- his original jail sentence was for murder
Third despite or because of the above he was valuable to Russia and to Putin- he could do things others could not
Fourth he spent a lot of time overseas and would have interacted frequently with western equivalents and diplomats
Fifth – even if he was not in fact a traitor, there can be no doubt that he would have been a very high list target for turning by the yanks and Brits – so he would know stuff and who is who.
Sixth he had tremendous success early on and was feted by many (including many good people on this site). He became a hero
Seventh like every successful army general ever it went to his head (think Mario and all the many Roman emperors who were jumped up soldiers of fortune)
Seventh since he was more PR and quick action type of guy he would not think logistics – I want ammo now, now, now, without thinking of the implications long term
Eighth he got to thinking he would make a better head of the military and obviously had some supporters- i guess many of the military types who are act now types, rather than long term strategists
Ninth the withdrawals of late 2022 MUST have had a damaging effect on morale in many areas. Guys lik Prig and supporters would have been champing at the bit and all fired up
tenth – the presidential election was less than a year away and his name was mentioned. Dangerous for Russia- very, very- guy too hot headed and not a strategic thinker
Eleventh – Serious Russians- possibly even Putin realised he was dangerous and started to thwart him – not so much support etc
Twelfth – the Brits (probably) and Ukrainians sensing his loss of status and possible ambitions reached out to him
Thirteen – he was ripe for turning – mercenary, ambitious, popular and feeling under valued.
Fourteen – June 2023 he is persuaded to attempt his mutiny. Probably sold it to many as a patriotic act – regain Russian momentum etc. The Brits thought there would be an enthusiastic fifth column ready to seize government with Prizoghin as head – the new Yeltsin
Fifteen – the Russian intelligence was awake to all of it. it was stopped. Because he was popular, and perhaps because many thought he has a point, he was granted exile not death
Sixteen – in his arrogance he broke the terms of his exile and returned to Russia
Seventeen – The end

Posted by: watcher | Feb 24 2024 1:27 utc | 250

@ karlof1 | Feb 24 2024 1:14 utc | 243
There is another disproportionate vector Russia could utilize: directly taking out the top-level deep-state decision makers, rather than wasting resources on their government and military stand-ins.
Eliminating 1 or 200 family estates hidden well out of the public’s awareness would effectively cripple US/UK government for the next 50 years.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 24 2024 1:29 utc | 251

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 24 2024 0:41 utc | 227
Forgive me here, but a lot of this has to do with how one brings a population to accept the necessity of war. Putin was successful in shoring up popular support, the key to long-term commitment. You don’t just give them a bottle of vodka and a gun and say ‘take that hill’. There must be a home front as strong or stronger. The episode from Olivier-narrated ‘World at War’ (1973) on ‘The Home Front’ is revealing: Britain became the USSR, a socialist state where all set aside their individual lives and pitched in, from movie stars (Bogarde, Niven) to the Royal Family (growing veggies in Buck palace gardens). Propaganda, to be sure, but don’t underestimate the extraordinary solidarity that allowed Britain simply to carry on in the face of collapse (Dad’s Army is worth re-watching as most of the actors were in the war).

Excellent points eloquently made.
The Western elites are spending their reserves accumulated from decades of well-entrenched power, so not to be sneezed at. But they have lost the support of the people so their days are numbered.
Which makes regime change inevitable and indeed already being engineered from within. Putin and Xi are no doubt in touch with those pursuing this strategy but perhaps there is still an elites-level power struggle providing risk that one faction may go batshit crazy and start tossing nuclear footballs around.
Personally, I doubt it. The CIA Head talked with Putin (by phone) the first week of the SMO. Probably they established parameters: local kinetics, yes but no formal War between states; most oligarch interests respected with some trade flows (like Ukraine gas) maintained. Both sides will take occasional hits, which especially in Russia’s case keeps the home fires burning as per your post.
The key dynamic this year might be socio-political implosion in the US in which the massive influx of illegal immigrants may play a part. The key point is that this regime change / implosion is a known factor making the SMO not merely the RF vs NATO confrontation it appears. Also Israel may have pulled a Balfour 2.0: they will collapse the West in return for a Jews-only homeland and a prominent role in the multipolar world order.

Posted by: Scorpion | Feb 24 2024 1:36 utc | 252

Posted by: James M. | Feb 24 2024 1:14 utc | 244
You seem unwilling to pay minimal attention to my arguments. My point was that it was out of line for some newcomer to decree who is a troll or an anti-Russian poster here. Didn’t go out of my way to call that jerk a troll or a paid agent.
As for the success of Russia, no one disputed its ability to prevail. The argument made is that when unbalanced imperialists engage in extreme escalations and do feel the fear of retaliation, they tend to become more unhinged. This may lead to all sorts of potential dangers: from an unacceptably increased cost for Russia even after a victorious conclusion to WW3.
What some commenters fail to understand is that this isn’t an endorsement of the western policies as some suggest in a deliberate slimy fashion, but an expression of serious worries about the developing state of affairs. Criminals who act with impunity tend to become more brazen and these are not the Maidanists, but their western masters.
Again, top Russian officials all the way to Putin have expressed that the other side is aiming for Russia’s demolition and has continually deceived in order to achieve its goals. So why should one expect them to back down when the western politicos openly express their determination to continue, while they do not appear to feel threatened in the least?

Posted by: Constantine | Feb 24 2024 1:36 utc | 253

Posted by: Constantine | Feb 24 2024 1:36 utc | 253
Correction:
‘The argument made is that when unbalanced imperialists engage in extreme escalations and do not feel the fear of retaliation, they tend to become more unhinged.’

Posted by: Constantine | Feb 24 2024 1:39 utc | 254

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 24 2024 1:29 utc | 251
No because we have no idea just who the actual decision makers are. Not Biden or the many feeble dignitaries in NATO and the EU.
Cutting of the head of the hydra just allows two more heads to grow.

Posted by: watcher | Feb 24 2024 1:39 utc | 255

Posted by: GW | Feb 24 2024 1:01 utc | 236
Sky New’s frontline reports have definitely had a more dejected feel to them, compared to previous months. The soldiers shown had the long faces and long stares of people who are reconciling themselves to inevitable defeat.
I think the backers of the war are already edging their way to the exits, because however bad they are as professional planners they are experts at planning their personal survival.

Posted by: Milites | Feb 24 2024 1:40 utc | 256

Pacifica Advocate | Feb 24 2024 1:29 utc | 251–
Thanks for your reply. As I recall, I advocated for that sort of culling at the outset of this two years ago relative to the talk of taking out the decision making centers.
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 24 2024 1:15 utc | 245–
In short, for many it seems Russia and China stand for human social meaning, while our world stands for brutal fake emptiness and annihilation. There is a war coming, a civil war in the West against this cancer.
I’ll sign up for that
.
IMO, we’ve already signed up and are currently engaged using the equivalent of pens instead of swords.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 24 2024 1:44 utc | 257

@ William Gruff | Feb 24 2024 0:19 utc | 215 with the apology….no worries, I know we are on the same side but I thought you were also supportive of the meme that says that to evolve from here we can’t fight Might-Makes-Right with more Might-Makes-Right.
I know it is a fine line and Russia is certainly killing people but not with the intent of Might-Makes-Right empire.
I feel the revenge urge like all of us but believe that we are on a path to a species evolved beyond barbarism. Wouldn’t that be nice?
I don’t want to get beat up too much with my prognostication attempts but I have written here last week that I expect the shit show to stop by Easter. Take that for the psychic outpouring it is and hope I am correct…..my outside prognostication time line is early August for end of our shit show….let the flames begin anew.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 24 2024 1:51 utc | 258

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 24 2024 1:44 utc | 257
Quite right: we are already in the fight right here. God bless your tireless work Karlof.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 24 2024 1:54 utc | 259

Patroklos | Feb 24 2024 0:41 utc | 227
Pfizer uses the term ‘directed evolution’ for how they create strains of bugs.
Whereas Pfizer us directed evolution for nefarious purposes, Putin uses it to change Russia for the better. Generally, the leadership make plans for change and wait until the people begin demanding that change. Very occasional it is top down such as raising the pension age which caused a sudden drop in Putin’s approval ratings. SMO was a little touch and go with many ethnic groups unsure about it at best, even though Putin’s approval rating did jump back up again with the beginning of the SMO. Ukraine nazis posting the torturing and killing of POW’s to social media plus what Mariupol residents said about the nazi’s targeting them greatly changed that.
There was an interview of one Chechen in Mariupol I will always remember. He said he was very unsure about the SMO being the right thing, but then they were taking a building where the nazis of azov held civilian hostages. One hostage, a mother with a young child made an escape. She was shot in the back by the sniper. the child stood with his fallen mother unsure what to do. The Chechens were yelling at the kid to run, then the neo-nazi sniper shot the child through the head.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 24 2024 2:04 utc | 260

Patroklos | Feb 24 2024 1:54 utc | 259–
Thanks very much! And your efforts don’t go unnoticed.
I stole this from a “ted richard” comment on a Martyanov thread. About the West:
“We used to make things. Now we make believe. And we can’t tell the difference.”

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 24 2024 2:05 utc | 261

Re the A-50, I thought they were always shepherded by a pair of RFAF fighters. If so, that makes 3 >>>THREE<<< aircrews who got confused over who and from where was firing at them. The fighter pilots would have/could have called off the mistaken RF AD shooting at their own. Makes no fkn sense to be FF or UKR fire.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Feb 24 2024 2:07 utc | 262

McGovern and Johnson are “ex”-CIA. Listening to them is attempting to read tea leaves from factions within the power structure. Thank you for skepticism.
Posted by: oldhippie | Feb 23 2024 21:34 utc | 134
Yeah, “ex”-CIA is like “former” rapist. “Ex”-serial killer. But what about Tucker Carlson? He’s a CIA asset and there’s nothing ‘ex’ about him.
You’re quite right, all of these mouthpieces are indicators of faction fights within the power structure- but they are only really ‘fights’ between a certain level of operatives. The top of the pyramid has had the narrative shift we’re witnessing planned for a long time, and its happening now because the war against the EU is almost complete and what remains doesn’t require the risks and expenses of a continued hot SMO. On the other hand, it doesn’t require that the SMO end right away either, or on any particular terms. The SMO is a side issue, which the PTB will be happy to use as a negotiating point to see what the Russians might be generous or foolish enough to give them, but I suspect that it won’t be much, because in the not too distant future the war in Ukraine will become so obviously lost that even the captive press of the EU can’t paper it over, and then it will be necessary to let go of Ukraine to keep the Euro-peons down on the plantation. Cold war to go on indefinitely, however.

Posted by: Honzo | Feb 24 2024 2:10 utc | 263

If the supposition about saboteurs and MANPADS is correct the ideal response is to infiltrate on west side of Black Sea and do same. Maintain plausible deniability. Probably not an easy task. Likely western AWACS guided strike to ensure hit despite countermeasures. Russia can do same. Other way is to make a public threat – if this continues we will… Seems a less likely path. Russia must have a fair idea of what happened as the aircraft realized it was under attack and took measures. Probably the point of launch is known.
In other news western equipment using ‘eco-friendly’ wire insulation is subject to attack by Russian sympathizing rodents that have a fondness for the corn based insulation.

Posted by: the pessimist | Feb 24 2024 2:13 utc | 264

Re Carlson being CIA. Putin actually said that re nord stream I think. Couple that to what Putin said about dealing directly with the CIA instead of the clowns that are placed in front of the peasants in the US.
If that is the case then CIA seems to be working on taking US attention/direction away from war on Russia.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 24 2024 2:17 utc | 265

If the supposition about saboteurs and MANPADS is correct the ideal response is to infiltrate on west side of Black Sea and do same. Maintain plausible deniability.
Posted by: the pessimist | Feb 24 2024 2:13 utc | 264
I also thinks its the ideal response. In a sense its already happening. Intelegence from operatives is plentiful from all regions of Ukraine. How else do you think there are so may rear attacks which hit targets. Simple. People on the ground.

Posted by: HERMIUS | Feb 24 2024 2:21 utc | 266

I’ve heard the term Black Swan Event but never paid it much attention (they happen more often than I knew)
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 23 2024 16:42 utc | 8
The term gets thrown around and applied to events too loosely now.
It was a book explaining the concept, so it is hard to boil it down.
It does not mean, “big, unexpected event”, like people use it now.
It is more like, “event, which theoretically could happen, but very small chance of happening, so a structure is built assuming it wont happen. Because the structure is built, ignoring the possibility of it happening, it begins to ignore weaknesses to possible event, and even begins to structure itself to have an even greater catastrophic failure when it occurs”. The black swan event is both the event, and the catastrophic failure of the structure built to ignore the possibility of the event.
And not to brag, but to brag, when I facebooked, Taleb would like almost every comment I made or answer I gave to his questions.
But fuck Facebook, I quit over a decade ago.

Posted by: UWDude | Feb 24 2024 2:24 utc | 267

That said, for now I still trust the crowd mentioned above, but I sleep with one eye open. If old media was such a perfect, seamless con I’m sure whatever they are replacing it with will be just as invisible to me. I’m also older and wiser, that’s also part of the con, once you start catching on you have a few decades before you croak. That little bugaboo has been exploited perfectly for the last 10,000 years.
I do trust Jimmy Dore unconditionally, am I allowed that? He’s the son, grandson and brother of cops, his bullshit detector must go to 11.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Feb 23 2024 22:27 utc | 156
One useful technique is to follow the money. When ‘rebel voice’ gets a huge platform- who is paying for that? Obviously some element of the ruling class. When a lesser ‘dissenter’ is not censored by the censors, why not? If you’re not being demonetized and shadow banned, you’re either controlled opposition or you’re too naive to say anything that’s actually threatening to the power structure. None of these voices, and hence few of the commenters, are addressing the root of the problem: capitalism. It’s not incompetence, it’s not corruption, it’s wokism or right wing racist, sexist anti-semites, transphobes or Islamophobes that are driving the continuous crises of modern life, they’re just tools. It’s the ruling class. Class war is the only war.
So, I think ‘trust’ in any media voice is misplaced. We have to examine how all the narratives fit the agenda of the PTB. I like Jimmy Dore, he’s evolved quite a bit and continues to evolve, and his prole cred is pretty sound for a guy who’s no longer a prole. He has no structural vision, however. He has a good working class gut- and that gets him a lot of credit from me- but he doesn’t grasp the fundamental mechanics of the society he lives in, so he can’t get ahead of the curve. Like most Americans, he’s reacting to what’s happening in the moment. Even with all the sincerity and the best gut in the world, that will get you into trouble.

Posted by: Honzo | Feb 24 2024 2:31 utc | 268

Posted by: jayc | Feb 23 2024 18:06 utc | 47
my response on Alexander Mercouris video about the world market available shells was:
i have no doubt that some of these available shells are sitting in ammo dumps in ukraine and will be endlessly recycled to harvest western money. such is the cycle of shells. capitalism. you gotta love it.

Posted by: frkorz | Feb 24 2024 2:32 utc | 269

Some videos for today.
Russian missile strikes destroy US-supplied Patriot air defense system (MUST SEE):
https://rutube.ru/video/ecfbdd62fb46e7e74e6da6ec5e4fd10b/
Footage of Russian forces cutting off the supply route to Avdeevka’s coke plant, just before its recent liberation:
https://rutube.ru/video/afb440ef2445835574edde877948c524/
Russian FPV drones strike enemy positions:
https://rutube.ru/video/4695b8864cc87781a6324aa3426f3917/
Russian Akatsiya self-propelled howitzer pounds enemy position:
https://rutube.ru/video/624fe6467d905b9632e8f6f007761f97/

Posted by: Nate | Feb 24 2024 2:34 utc | 270

You seem unwilling to pay minimal attention to my arguments. My point was that it was out of line for some newcomer to decree who is a troll or an anti-Russian poster here. Didn’t go out of my way to call that jerk a troll or a paid agent.
Posted by: Constantine | Feb 24 2024 1:36 utc | 253
Because they’re not worth more than my minimal attention. I’m glad you have a hobby, but I didn’t know it was your job to call out “newcomers” when they posted something you didn’t like. Leave that to the blog administrator.
You didn’t even tag his post, but commented in a passive-aggressive way… “Someone called Naïve, who is aptly named”. No, you didn’t call him a troll, just a jerk and naïve, which of course is so much better.
Also, Russia is doing a good job of muting escalation, but this gives rise to criticisms of a “slow pace.”
As for the rest of your comments…I don’t care really. You have an agenda that doesn’t take into account the realities on the ground. In six to eight months that reality will change again, I doubt your comments will…

Posted by: James M. | Feb 24 2024 2:37 utc | 271

From the video and from reports TWO aircraft crashed which would make the A-50 scenario more likely (A-50 plus Su-35 escort).
I don’t think a F-35 or F-22 could get in within AMRAAM range of the shootdown location without being detected (at least the refueling aircraft would be seen).
Hard to tell what altitude the planes were at to see if they were low enough for MANPADS.
What about a SAS team (or SAS trained Ukrainian team) infiltrating Russian territory and taking over a Russian SAM site to down an A-50? I would think that is doable and Perfidious Albion would do it.
Would China consider selling Russia an AWACS or two? They have several models (KL-200. KJ-500, KJ-2000) and many more than the handful of A-50s remaining.

Posted by: mtw | Feb 24 2024 2:39 utc | 272

by: Naive | Feb 23 2024 23:57 utc | 204
All that I do agree with, but I would be careful with the West and NATO. I think they are step away from attacking RF to prevent the land loss.That is why this conflict happens also in every contact point between the two sides. It is basically positioning before drawing a line and making an iron curtain there. What new sanctions will do? Most harm will go, probably to the free speech in the West.
Usually wars start before they are announced with anger towards and a dehumanization of their supposed enemy.
Hate-wave is what is happening in Germany, Western part mostly, UK, Scandinavia, France and a lot less in the Spain, Portugal and Italy. Eastern Europe news scan shows no real hate towards Russia, but the opposite happens as everyone waits for an end to SMO and it is fairly clear that this round Ukraine lost badly.
So it is not hard to tell that at some point and very soon a line of no return will be crossed.
Outside of Ukraine targets have been assigned a long time ago.
I am sure that intensity of this conflict will go up many fold, before it ends.

Posted by: whirlX | Feb 24 2024 2:40 utc | 273

Yeah, “ex”-CIA is like “former” rapist. “Ex”-serial killer. But what about Tucker Carlson? He’s a CIA asset and there’s nothing ‘ex’ about him.
Posted by: Honzo | Feb 24 2024 2:31 utc | 268
Ah, an expert on the CIA…lol. I know it’s a mysterious organization, but…that’s not how it works. CIA doesn’t use Americans in America as “assets”.

Posted by: James M. | Feb 24 2024 2:42 utc | 274

The latest “500” new sanctions… and Russia counters with… nothing? Still sells gas, oil, uranium, grain, on and on to its “enemies”? Sure, a ruble, is a ruble… yank… but who believes that nonsense.
–Truebind1
Check out the logic twist on this one:
Europe bans more trade with Russia. That is bad for Russia and Russia does nothing.
Also
Russia trading with Europe is bad for Russia, because it is trading with the enemy.
Umm, so which should Russia be doing? Trading with Europe, or not trading with Europe?
To me, I think not, but to hurt European economy, as they need Russian energy, not because they are “selling goids to the enemy”
So when Europe sanctions Russia more, oh well, their loss.
If they don’t, Russia will get cash for something someone else would sell Europe if they didnt.
It really doesnt matter either way, therefore, trying to act like it is bad, trade or not, is pessism/ defeatism.

Posted by: UWDude | Feb 24 2024 2:48 utc | 275

Re Carlson being CIA. Putin actually said that re nord stream I think. Couple that to what Putin said about dealing directly with the CIA instead of the clowns that are placed in front of the peasants in the US.
If that is the case then CIA seems to be working on taking US attention/direction away from war on Russia.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 24 2024 2:17 utc | 265
There’s no doubt that Tucker is CIA, even if they don’t sign his paychecks or have him on their official rolls. Just google Dick Carlson, his father. VOA, Corporation for Public Broadcasting, King media, election monitoring in color revolution targets, on and on and on. They take a close look at Tucker’s career- tries and ‘fail’s to join the CIA, his father’s connections get him jobs in corporate media, he becomes a pure rightwing propagandist… becomes the highest rated voice in corporate media- then begins and ‘awakening,’ bit by bit, carefully bringing his audience along with him. Then- bang! Fired. A momentary silence with the rampant speculation in social media sphere about his future, and boom! He has backers with money, his own platform, lots of view right away, and…. Twitter! Elon Musk, the bad boy billionaire of the MIC, offers him the moon to tell us all where the PTB wants us to go next.
Jimmy Dore, for all his shortcomings, has been right more often about more things and for much longer than Tucker Carlson. Where’s his pumped up platform on Twitter? He’s still on Rumble, ffs. Follow the money. Follow the educational trail. Follow the family connections. It’s all there. Groomed from birth.

Posted by: Honzo | Feb 24 2024 2:52 utc | 276

@Patroklos | Feb 24 2024 1:15 utc | 245,
I’d think this fits what psychohistorian keeps saying about the civilization war between barbarism and civilization. I agree with him wholly. IMO, the west is essentially still raw barbaric, especially the anglo sphere that can’t get out its barbaric nature from its pirate root. The appearance of the anglo sphere is masked by technological material advances with empty minds since the industrial revolution. However, most people are easily deceived by appearances and unable to see through the surface.
The nature of the anglo is to prey.
However, Chinese believe in harmony and one Chinese traditional ultimate goal in governance is to achieve a harmonic world (“大同世界”, from Chapter Li Yun/Book Li Ji “禮記.禮運”). Well, I can’t find a good English translation about “大同世界” since there is no such concept in the anglo sphere at all.

Posted by: LuRenJia | Feb 24 2024 2:56 utc | 277

“CIA doesn’t use Americans in America as “assets”.
I’m not sure I’ve ever read anything as blindingly stupid as that sentence.
I thought of posting all kinds of links to their US ops…. but…honestly who here would need them.

Posted by: Archetypex | Feb 24 2024 3:02 utc | 278

@ karloff1:
There’s an established principle that I have only rarely seen referenced about the targeting of senior figures in a protracted war.
Essentially, if one actor murders the current leadership of an opposition then in the absence of a predetermined succession of leadership, the former subordinates who assume the newly vacated leadership roles will be more violent and less-inclined to engaging in de-escalation than the former leadership was.
This particular lesson in sociologic-psychology was imparted a couple of decades ago (maybe three?), but has stuck with me as I have watched the cumulative losses the DEAD/“Homeland” Security have logged up in their Fem-Bro “War on Drug Lords”, over the years. By ignoring this obvious truism the “psychological science” delivered to us some thirty or forty years ago, the US government bureaucracy has created precisely the “supepredators” Joe Biden once fantasizes about back when he was courting that ugly Koch money.
My point is not to say that the Kremlin will never initiate such incapacities strikes; rather, the Kremlin will only engage in such strikes once the US political/war machine has fully gone off the rails and threatens nuclear war.
Once the threat of genuine nuclear annihilation is on the table, the Kremlin will place every card (ie: missile) down,, with “death to the capitalist leaders” first amongst many.
@ watcher | Feb 24 2024 1:39 utc | 255
**YOU** have no idea who those people are.
The Kremlin certainly has a handle on the vast majority, and perhaps every last one.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 24 2024 3:02 utc | 279

the A-50 shoot down is friendly fire. More than 200 km from the front so likely a Russian air defence missile error.

Posted by: Poul | Feb 24 2024 3:03 utc | 280

Pointing out that the Russians failed there and that this was the best of proofs that RU forces in fact did not intend to distract but take over and failed in doing so.
While the press in the Former West was screaming about Kiev, the Russians achieved their number one Strategic Objective: the land bridge to Crimea.

Posted by: JackG | Feb 24 2024 3:18 utc | 281

Best places for retaliation are Syria and Iraq. Give some Islanders to Hezbollah.

Posted by: JackG | Feb 24 2024 3:26 utc | 282

Honzo | Feb 24 2024 2:52 utc | 276
I have always wondered about who or what faction is backing Musk. People don’t become that wealthy in the US without being ‘connected’. What you say certainly makes sense.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 24 2024 3:29 utc | 283

A-50 downing and Patriot AD strike
Does anyone know the timing of these events?
Which occurred first and what was the time interval between?

Posted by: Jerr | Feb 24 2024 3:32 utc | 284

There’s no doubt that Tucker is CIA, even if they don’t sign his paychecks or have him on their official rolls.
Posted by: Honzo | Feb 24 2024 2:52 utc | 276
So Tucker Carlson is CIA even if he isn’t CIA because his dad did some stuff, not really related to. CIA. Nice logic there.

Posted by: James M. | Feb 24 2024 3:40 utc | 285

Ah, an expert on the CIA…lol. I know it’s a mysterious organization, but…that’s not how it works. CIA doesn’t use Americans in America as “assets”.
Posted by: James M. | Feb 24 2024 2:42 utc | 274
Ahahahahaha!
————–
So Tucker Carlson is CIA even if he isn’t CIA because his dad did some stuff, not really related to. CIA. Nice logic there.
Posted by: James M. | Feb 24 2024 3:40 utc | 285
Ooops, I thought the first one sawcasm. You think the Voice of America is not related to the CIA? Well, okay, that’s really funny too.

Posted by: Honzo | Feb 24 2024 3:46 utc | 286

Well, I can’t find a good English translation about “大同世界” since there is no such concept in the anglo sphere at all.
Posted by: LuRenJia | Feb 24 2024 2:56 utc | 277

Ah. So refreshing to see LuRen Jia posting something other than a flaccid defense of Chiang Kai Shek and/or ethnic Hokkien assertions of racial superiority over every other living Chinese person.
Here we have him proffering CKS’s favorite literary essay, the “Grand World of Equality”—which is at best a middling translation, not least because the text referenced was written in Classical Chinese, which is always only relevant in contextualized circumstances, and excels at deracinated generalities that have been grossly ported into pseudo-Enlightenment retro-history by…Chinese scholars who would scoff LuRen’s version of history.
Admittedly, it is an admirable essay, deserving of study. But in the context of LuRen’s carefully constrained masquerade, so carefully constructed by the Pentagon/CIA to pretend as if s/he is a genuine Taiwanese nationalist, the honestly admirable—gonig back a few thousand years—declaration that most “woke” folk would be hard-pressed to acknowledge—
And yet, the history of CKS, and Madam Jiang, do nearly belie all the good work the later Jiang people worked. Jiang .Chingkuo/Jingguo was not his stepmother’s son.

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 24 2024 3:54 utc | 287

Scorpion | Feb 24 2024 1:36 utc | 252
*** Also Israel may have pulled a Balfour 2.0: they will collapse the West in return for a Jews-only homeland and a prominent role in the multipolar world order.***
They pretty much rule the West anyway. They don’t seem to be doing at all badly in Russia, either. Plus they want to keep Ukraine (note disproportionate presence among Oligarchs and top Politicians since the end of the USSR) …. and will undoubtedly grab even more of Patagonia thanks to the lunatic now President in Argentina.
Doubt they are worried who wins the war since either way it could serve their purposes.

Posted by: Cynic | Feb 24 2024 3:58 utc | 288

If that is the case then CIA seems to be working on taking US attention/direction away from war on Russia.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 24 2024 2:17 utc | 265
—————
That’s an interesting thought.
The cia is essentially the ‘military’ arm of corporate America.
What does corporate America see as is future?
I actually see no future for corporate America.
I see the US as drowning in a social and economic morass that will roll up both the cia and corporatism. (With a little help from the resistance).

Posted by: financial matters | Feb 24 2024 4:11 utc | 289

RE: “To me, I think not, but to hurt European economy, as they need Russian energy, not because they are “selling goids to the enemy”
So when Europe sanctions Russia more, oh well, their loss.
If they don’t, Russia will get cash for something someone else would sell Europe if they didnt.
It really doesn’t matter either way, therefore, trying to act like it is bad, trade or not, is pessism/ defeatism.”
Posted by: UWDude | Feb 24 2024 2:48 utc | 275
You definitely have a point, especially regarding “hurting EU economy” vs. “enemy” sanctions. I mostly have trouble with their “uranium” sales… lots of money for sure, but why do you want to power the West nuclear power plants for them?
I know some in the industry, those refined/processed uranium used and they are backlogged order, months, sometimes years in advance and to cut those off would definitely put a hurt on an economy, particularly since France and others recently fired up their nuke furnaces again.
But yeah, admit I was mostly thinking of revenge!!

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 24 2024 4:19 utc | 290

B “The endgame in Ukraine is approaching fast. It may indeed come much sooner than many are today willing to admit.”
It’s dangerous to count your chickens prematurely. This article completely overlooks recent developments — which indicate clearly that Ukraine and Zelensky will not be surrendering to Russia.
These new bilateral security pacts are equivalent to the mutual defense obligations of NATO nations.
WHAT ARE THESE SECURITY ARRANGEMENTS?
The Group of Seven nations signed a joint declaration at the NATO summit in Vilnius in July last year, committing to establish “long-term security commitments and arrangements” with Ukraine that would be negotiated bilaterally.
The deals would commit to the continued provision of military and security aid, support to develop Ukraine’s defence industrial base, training Ukrainian soldiers, intelligence sharing and cooperation, and support for cyber defence.
The sides would also immediately hold consultations with Ukraine to determine “appropriate next steps” in the event of a “future Russian armed attack”.
More than 30 countries have since signed the declaration.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/what-are-security-deals-ukraine-is-discussing-with-allies-2024-02-14/
That includes the USA, UK, Italy, Japan, Canada, France, Germany. Other NATO nations are piling on with their own Bilateral 10 years Mutual Defense Security Military agreements.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/netherlands-sign-10-year-security-pact-with-ukraine-2024-02-23/
https://www.barrons.com/news/denmark-signs-10-year-security-agreement-with-ukraine-e094bda6
https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-and-ukraine-sign-security-agreement-scholz-zelenskyy/
https://apnews.com/article/germany-france-ukraine-zelenskyy-security-eefc83817062c5bb5d7a9e16a276aeaf
HISTORIC TREATY: Britain and Ukraine Signed a 10-year Security Agreement
The new agreement on security guarantees between the United Kingdom and Ukraine is outstanding and precedent in terms of providing security measures in case of new aggressions of Russia against our state.
Ukraine and the United Kingdom have signed a security treaty that will be valid for 10 years with the possibility of extension or until Ukraine joins NATO.
Earlier it had been reported that the treaty formalized the range of support for Ukraine, including on intelligence transfer, cybersecurity, medical and military training and cooperation in the defense industry.
The treaty also provides that the UK will consult with Ukraine in the event of new attacks by Russia and provide rapid and stable defense aid.
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/ukraine-and-the-united-kingdom-signed-a-security-treaty/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4YZ0NtMpY

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Feb 24 2024 4:28 utc | 291

PS Lavrov’s Dog | Feb 24 2024 4:28 utc | 291
It does not matter if these multi-nation security pacts still cannot defeat Russia or drive it out of Ukraine. It does mean that any nation can aid Ukraine individually in anyway it wishes without invoking NATO joint self-defense articles.
Up to and including air force deployments and ground troops to help defend Ukraine territory from attacks – that is the additional long term threat being laid at Russia’s feet in recent weeks.
An Endless War for a Decade or more.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Feb 24 2024 4:35 utc | 292

RE: “The cia is essentially the ‘military’ arm of corporate America.”
Posted by: financial matters | Feb 24 2024 4:11 utc | 289
No. The CIA was originally set up in the 20’s by Britain as a functioning protection mechanism for their corporate & business assests and were for many decades a foreign intelligence agency, working within the state department.
Then they joined up with FBI, State Department & Military Intelligence, Mossad, M16, the works all blended into a corporate serving parallel governance structure that is all operated out of the State Department now and is part of the MIC… but in the end, the State Department tells the military what to do, and it’s often at odds with the actual on the ground military.
One example of plain trouble, was Benghazi.
The State Department (Hillary Clinton) was running her own covert operation with CIA assets, ran into a mess and the military had to go bail them out and they were pretty pissed how it got handled and just let her get thrown under the bus.
The State Department devises these “covert” crap things a lot… like the assassination of Sulemani, then when it goes sideways… cry to the military.
The military corporate servants like Austin and the like are one thing, and sometimes in the loop, but for the most part the last 2 decades, they’ve just been running behind the State Department & CIA apparatus cleaning up their shit messes all over the world. Like Ukraine, the State Department opened up a shit can of worms for their corporate overlords, and the corporate military hardware manufacturers, and the uniformed lowly’s get to die for it.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 24 2024 4:59 utc | 293

UWDude@267….we live on a rock flying through a debris field….what could go wrong 🙂
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 24 2024 5:02 utc | 294

Lavrov’s Dog@292….or it all ends in a swift bright flash. Russians were tapping Mercs left and right past two days around Sumy. Finn’s, Canadians, Colombians, Yanks….. perhaps a sense of urgency on their part.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 24 2024 5:11 utc | 295

Lastly, Dreizin is just a grifting glorified edgelord, with a sideorder of maniacal Zionism.
Posted by: Urban Fox | Feb 23 2024 23:53 utc | 202
##################
Well said.
It is interesting to spot the people who reference him as some sort of authority on anything. Much of his posting “glows”.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 24 2024 5:22 utc | 296

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Feb 24 2024 4:28 utc | 291
Agreed. I do wish people would not dismiss these “secuity pacts” as just inconsequential words on paper. They are not.
They lock-in any excuses to provide Ukraine with anything the two countries agree on in the future.
They provide never-ending pipelines for sabotage and insurgencies against Russia.
They facilitate back channels for weapons black money to be shuffled willy-nilly.
They lock-in decades more Russophobic agitprop.
They are propaganda for the strategic PR of “we are never giving in to Russia or ever abandoning Ukraine”. Of course the reality on the ground can/will override this.
I see them as very clever and quite dangerous ploys, like adding more pieces on the chessboard during the game.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Feb 24 2024 5:39 utc | 297

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 24 2024 4:59 utc | 293

No. The CIA was originally set up in the 20’s by Britain as a functioning protection mechanism for their corporate & business assests and were for many decades a foreign intelligence agency, working within the state department.

—-
Perhaps you are speaking metaphorically; or perhaps you are referring to the 2020s. But if you are referring to the 1920s, you are just wrong.
The CIA was founded in 1947 by that stupid man, Harry Truman. Prior to the CIA, the US had the OSS. The OSS was an extension of the Wall St/CFR intelligence network run out of the Cromwell and Sullivan law offices. Both Dulles brothers were lawyers for C&S. C&S specialized in running South America for the US’s profit, calling in the Marines when things needed to be sorted out.
Only if you are referring to C&S can your statement be true.
Your entire post is poisoned by beginning with this nonsense.

Posted by: john brewster | Feb 24 2024 5:47 utc | 298

Don‘t Forget: The Ukrainian Civil War is a mere sideshow in this Global Struggle.
On one hand. The War Party in Washington still believes it can prevail by destabilizing the perimeter of Eurasia.
On the other hand. Moscow, Peking, Iran, Brazil, et.al. believe De-Dollarization bankrupts the War Party.
Sooooo my fellow barflies – watch the pace of De-Dollarization versus Destabilzimg efforts.

Posted by: Exile | Feb 24 2024 6:07 utc | 299

It’s dangerous to count your chickens prematurely. This article completely overlooks recent developments — which indicate clearly that Ukraine and Zelensky will not be surrendering to Russia.
These new bilateral security pacts are equivalent to the mutual defense obligations of NATO nations.
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Feb 24 2024 4:28 utc | 291
Agreed. I do wish people would not dismiss these “secuity pacts” as just inconsequential words on paper. They are not.
Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Feb 24 2024 5:39 utc | 297
The problem with security pacts is that they cut both ways. They are entangling, and entrapping for the stronger power. The more they commitment, the more stretched they become, and the less likely they are to fulfill their promises. Bilateral pacts are the weakest of all. Think of the Prisoner’s Dilemma – the dominant strategy is to defect.

Posted by: James M. | Feb 24 2024 6:12 utc | 300