Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 22, 2024

Palestine Open Thread 2024-057

Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on February 22, 2024 at 13:42 UTC | Permalink

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iZreal recognized that Hamas' written plan for Oct 7th could not succeed.

They decided to stop monitoring Hamas' hand-held radio network, so they claim.
They had to ignore the alerts being sounded by border watchers.
They had to give a thumbs-down to written reports by intelligence officers
warning of an imminent Oct 7th (this happened!).
They had to ignore that Hamas had been trying to lull them into complacency (this was in writing in the Hamas Oct 7th plans).
They had to remove the vast majority of the IDF troops surrounding Gaza just in time for Oct 7th
Once the jail break was under way support troops had to be delayed for hours. (They refuse to explain
why this happened, stating that they will "investigate" only after Hamas is defeated.)
They had to implement the Hannibal Directive in order to achieve maximum civilian casualties.

The confluence of too many huge failures and too many horrible decisions
to be credible.

Posted by: librul | Feb 22 2024 13:44 utc | 1

iZrael betrayed -- Intentional Defense Failure --
and slaughtered its own -- Hannibal Directive

in order to invoke the latent blood lust in it's citizenry
so that they would support GENOCIDE.

And such a Beast claims that "it has a right to exist".

What a world.

Posted by: librul | Feb 22 2024 13:49 utc | 2

Posted by: tawharanui | Feb 22 2024 5:04 utc |

Thanks for posting the summary Daily SITREP in the prior thread. Would be great if you did this every day.

Tally of Merkava’s claimed since 2.Oct = 165

Posted by: Exile | Feb 22 2024 14:07 utc | 3

@Posted by: librul | Feb 22 2024 13:44 utc | 1

That very first line should be amended for clarity.

iZreal recognized that Hamas' written plan for Oct 7th could not succeed.

iZreal recognized that Hamas' written plan for Oct 7th could not succeed without iZrael's help.

Posted by: librul | Feb 22 2024 14:09 utc | 4

Posted by: tawharanui | Feb 22 2024 5:04 utc |

Thanks for posting that daily SITREP from telegram on the prior thread - would be illuminating if you posted every day

Tally - 165 Merkavas claimed since 2.Oct

Posted by: Exile | Feb 22 2024 14:14 utc | 5

Reuters headline -"Putin ally hails Russian exit from 1956 fishing deal with Britain, London shrugs"

The unsinkable economy of the mighty Britannica. Tis but a flesh wound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmInkxbvlCs

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 22 2024 14:15 utc | 6

Four comments. And three of them from librul, obsessed with the ridiculous and racist notion that Israel's government and military were accomplices in the historic defeat of October 7th.
It is not that this theory is unlikely and, in the final analysis, supportive of Israel's claims of omnipotence- everyone makes mistakes of judgement- but that variations on the banal theme saturate these threads.

Posted by: bevin | Feb 22 2024 14:19 utc | 7

"ridiculous and racist notion that Israel's government and military were accomplices in the historic defeat of October 7th."

What is "racist" in that observation?
though it is fair to tag Israel as apartheid racist.
And all telltales seem to indicate that Oct7 was at least a LIHOP operation from Israels government side. ( Fuze set of with the Settler demonstrations Oct4 )

But it looks like Netanyahu misjudged the scope of the intercation.

Posted by: MAKK | Feb 22 2024 14:32 utc | 8

replace intercation with altercation :-)

Posted by: MAKK | Feb 22 2024 14:33 utc | 9


ad hominem
and then some

@Posted by: bevin | Feb 22 2024 14:19 utc | 7

iZrael would never conduct a false flag ever

The USS Liberty false flag worked so well for iZrael that they decided to quit while they were ahead.
And in 2005 the surviving Zio agents of the Lavon Affair were awarded certificates of appreciation
by the President of iZrael.

Posted by: librul | Feb 22 2024 14:36 utc | 10

"Four comments. And three of them from librul, obsessed with the ridiculous and racist notion that Israel's government and military were accomplices in the historic defeat of October 7th.
It is not that this theory is unlikely and, in the final analysis, supportive of Israel's claims of omnipotence- everyone makes mistakes of judgement- but that variations on the banal theme saturate these threads."

Posted by: bevin | Feb 22 2024 14:19 utc | 7

I am agnostic about librul's claim. It could have happened the way he outlines or it could have been IDF arrogance and incompetence ; or it could have been a bit of both.

librul doesn't know, nor do you bevin.

Being so personally vicious to a 'theory' reflects on your charachter not libruls'.

Take a walk or something so you can 'cleanse your mind."

Have a good day

Posted by: canuck | Feb 22 2024 14:46 utc | 11

Posted by: librul | Feb 22 2024 13:44 utc | 1

After some thought librul, you are on to something.

If indeed it can be proven that the IDF were complicit on 7/10 it would so devastating that that could be the end of Israel.

Keep up the good work, I was slow in seeing the "big picture"

Posted by: canuck | Feb 22 2024 14:53 utc | 12

Posted by: librul | Feb 22 2024 13:44 utc | 1

Please stop. Hamas planned and executed the single most ingenious uprising in human history and if not for sheer luck and a few plucky Zionist troops, the 400 or so Gazans would have completely taken over the country of Israel having taken them completely by surprise with no warnings or suspicious activity in the two days prior.

Hamas - genius technical capabilities and airtight iron clad secrecy.

Mossad/Shin Bet/IDF/Settlers - Stupidest most underfunded incompetent overconfident failure of a 24/7/365 high tech surveillance network ever

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 22 2024 14:55 utc | 13

What is incredible is that iZrael had Hamas' plans a year in advance
and then thought that they could get away with
removing the majority of their troops around Gaza
just in time for Oct 7th.

How could they believe that people would be stupid enough
not to notice the glaring deviation from what they should have been
be doing in that circumstance.

What they should have been doing is adding more troops.
Listening to their border watchers.
Take it seriously when their intelligence officers tell them Oct 7th is imminent.
Instead of hamstringing their intelligence services by halting the monitoring
of Hamas' hand held radios they should have increased their diligence.
Their support troops and reinforcements should have trained repeatedly to
arrive in force **quickly** once a Hamas jail break was under way.

Incredible!
They think people are stupid.

It is like someone dug a deep deep hole in a sidewalk
then dutifully placed multiple warning signs surrounding it
and then iZrael comes along whistling a tune and walks straight into it.

iZrael: "Outrageous! Who put this hole here? I never saw it coming!!
I just fell into this hole some bastard put here. I will get them!!
How dare they! Where is my lawyer?!!"

Posted by: librul | Feb 22 2024 14:56 utc | 14

Hahahaha now it's RACIST to point out the increasingly obvious fact that Israel intentionally mishandled key elements of evidence and the response to the Al Aqsa Flood?

Hmm. Maybe that does kind of make Zionist Jews look worse But is Jewish a race?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 22 2024 14:58 utc | 15

Bevin i think your in denial, if the truth Librul repeats irate's you just scroll past.
But you cant repeat the truth often enough in this post truth world.
Every campagine the west starts is based on a false statment or lie. Liberul exposes the fundimental simple lie here, and should continue to do so.
Other random examples.
Russia poisened the Skripals. Lie.
Sadan Hassan had weopens of massdistruction. Lie.
Binladen was the master mind behind 9/11. Lie.
Ukraine conflict started 24 feb. 2022.
There are many other examples, im sure you will agree.
Librul nails the lie.
Daily people come to this blog looking for the truth. Dont disrupt that Please.

Since way before 2 oct israel has been seeking to expand israel. Ther is no coinsidence here.


Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 22 2024 15:02 utc | 16

Worth the 8 minutes. I guess if you are 98 you are not afraid to die for the truth. I pray, God bless this man and keep him safe from harm. https://jeffjbrown.substack.com/p/omg-98-year-old-dr-mahathir-speaks

Posted by: CeaClearly | Feb 22 2024 15:04 utc | 17

Posted by: canuck | Feb 22 2024 14:53 utc | 12

If indeed it can be proven that the IDF were complicit on 7/10 it would so devastating that that could be the end of Israel.

It won't change a thing.

Posted by: Scorpion | Feb 22 2024 15:04 utc | 18

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 22 2024 15:02 utc | 16

Man... Appreciate the sentiment but if you did to embryos in Alabama what you're doing to spelling here they'd throw you in jail.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 22 2024 15:07 utc | 19

Here is an article from an Israel newspaper that does back up that israel did have some warning about an upcoming attack.

https://worldisraelnews.com/idf-heard-about-hamas-invasion-a-week-before-october-7th-security-head-reveals/

Posted by: golddigger | Feb 22 2024 15:11 utc | 20

Bevin comment 7 ----

Israel, and sadly most Jews have become brainwashed by zionist ideology; rascist to the core. I happen to agree with Librul. This entire operation, including the initial attack by the prisoners from their concentration camp, led by Hamas warriors, was planned / prepared for by Israel, just like all their acts of murder. What Israel is doing now will go down in history as an act of pure evil every bit as bad as the ethnic cleansing of jews during second world war. One would hope that Jews would force this horror to end. I myself am disappointed in Jews in their lack of condemnation, but a shout out and admiration for those brave people of jewish heritage who know this is wrong and constantly confront people like Blinken to STOP THE GENOCIDE.

Posted by: Áobh Ò'Sheachnasaigh | Feb 22 2024 15:11 utc | 21

librul | Feb 22 2024 13:44 utc | 1
This is sort of your focus so let me continue from the previous thread. What is the original source of the accusation that Israel buried destroyed vehicles from the Rave in the desert?

What are the various sources and how did they break down the number of dead, POWs, and hostages from October 7th?

What is the current status and numbers of the remaining pows and hostages. Including the Palestinians being held, what are there conditions like?

Do you have any links on what events took place on October second in the occupied lands?

Things do have to be repeated here over time as we get many new arrivals looking for information. However perhaps you could extend your case beyond what you have been posting daily?

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 15:13 utc | 22

Tom @ 19
Nice priorites you got their mate. (Sarc)

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 22 2024 15:15 utc | 23

Now guys, please be careful you are being tracked......God's gonna be pissed and lookin' for you, when he gets back from.....guess those new planets in that other universe are taking more time to set up, sure hope he skips the human part, seems he got it wrong this go around.

Cheers M

....tracked, recorded, some people love to take the piss, too funny, you'd have to be brain dead and fucked over to believe one has anonymity on the Internet....sorry, just way to funny....

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Feb 22 2024 15:18 utc | 24

RE: “I'll look for your posting tomorrow as it's about time for other things.”

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 22 2024 0:59 utc | 243

Karloff: here’s info. I watch too many podcasts and in error, cited EI (Electronic Infitada) and “Nora”… when it was in fact: Rachel Blevins;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TPhe2j7MNM

Highlights:
Francis Boyle discusses recent U.S. Veto.
Francis discusses recent S/A emergency ICJ measures request.
He states from a legal perspective, it was a success, even tho no additional provisions were given, the exact wording of “Rafah” as well as the returned ICJ wording of “Rafah” were good.
He stated many legal phrases used as was used in his Bosnia case and aided in that success.
He stated he had been invited in a few Arabic podcasts and that he had reached out to Saudi Arabia & UAE to offer his services (free of charge) to assist them in additional filings to ICJ citing Israel’s genocide. He received zero response.
He stated he believed the majority of Arab nations don’t care at all about Palestinians, but their population do and this is a problem for the heads of states.
He stated that the “Uniting for Peace” as well as the UNGA meeting on the 377 Resolution Unity for Peace we’re meeting AFTER Israel deadline of February 26 response to ICJ.
He stated he believed S/A will submit their own report as well.
He stated the UNGA would be holding another vote (?) as part of that Unity meeting.
He expressed a hopeful tone for thwarting the planned March 10 “deadline” for Rafah assault and stopping it.

I will attach all links following this. “Uniting for Peace” is the organization I referred to in my other post. What I was unaware of, is they have a scheduled on-line meeting on February 27, the day AFTER the deadline. I’ll highlight members, as that is the link to to “tally” documents we were discussing.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 15:20 utc | 25

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 22 2024 14:55 utc | 13

Absolutely. Hamas has made history with their political, military, and Tactical acumen.

"Hamas - genius technical capabilities and airtight iron clad secrecy.

Mossad/Shin Bet/IDF/Settlers - Stupidest most underfunded incompetent overconfident failure of a 24/7/365 high tech surveillance network ever "

Israel's strategy- provocation (October 2nd and prior) and LIHOP. Normalization of relations with Arab Neighbors.

All of these things can be true at the same time, creating the potential for a Palestinian victory over the crazed occupiers.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 15:21 utc | 26

What happened when iZrael captured Hamas' Oct 7th plan?

According to iZraeli media they disseminated it to all their leadership for study.
Political leadership, military leadship, intelligence services leadership - they
all read it.

They had some choices.

1) They could defeat Hamas when they tried their plan.
2) They could let Hamas partially succeed and get sucked into a "Kill hole" (is that the right term?), where they could be slaughtered.
3) Let Hamas succeed beyond it's wildest expectations, implement the Hannibal Doctrine and slaughter lots of iZraeli civilians.

Options 1 doesn't work for Netanyahu as he is on the way out politically with the expectation of jail time. Netanyahu has been funding Hamas and even though the Hamas attack is thwarted it is not a good look for Netanyahu. Hamas would continue to exist.

Option 2 doesn't work for Netanyahu as he has been funding Hamas for the purpose of keeping the Palestinians divided into two camps. If Hamas is obliterated there is the risk of the Palestinians coming together as one. And Netanyahu still goes to jail.

Option 3 Netanyahu creates blood lust in the iZraeli citizenry who then support his efforts to cleanse Gaza and the West Bank. Netanyahu becomes the iZraeli leader that captures all of Palestine, a hero above heroes. Who jails the greatest Hero of all time?

The problem with Option 3 is that the decision to implement it comes after the plan has been widely disseminated. Denial of it's existence becomes a problem.
When the NYT first revealed it's existence they went for a "limited hangout". The NYT explained away iZrael's failure. So now we are in a cover up phase, with the help of Mockingbird media, Hasbara and lobbying organizations such as the ADL.

Posted by: librul | Feb 22 2024 15:24 utc | 27

guess what, qatar does not participate in the ICJ hearings

Posted by: Minaa | Feb 22 2024 15:30 utc | 28

"It won't change a thing."

Posted by: Scorpion | Feb 22 2024 15:04 utc | 18

Scorpion how utterly cynical of you.

This inconveniently true utterance you have spewed forth, backed by countless examples from history, is a tad distressing.

But, as usual but, there is a court case going on and actual concrete evidence of this could be included as further evidence of genocide. It could be relevant. It adds the element of premeditation to what's currently going on in Gaza. Well, more evidence of premeditation.

All of which at the moment won't change a thing.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 15:32 utc | 29

“I’ll highlight members, as that is the link to to “tally” documents we were discussing.”

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 15:20 utc | 25

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 22 2024 0:59 utc | 243

Attaching docs:
https://unitingforpeace.com/general/ufp-agm-and-spring-conference-avoiding-a-broader-middle-east-war/

Title: Avoiding a Broader Middle East War – Building Bridges for Peace between Israel-Palestine
Date: Tuesday, 27 February 2024
Time: 18:00 – 20:00 (UK time)
Venue: Online

UNGA:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_377

“The resolution was designed to provide the UN with an alternative avenue for action when at least one P5 member uses its veto to obstruct the Security Council from carrying out its functions mandated by the UN Charter.”

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 15:33 utc | 30

I tend to agree with librul, especially considering the Izzy gunships executing the Sampson Option on their own ravers - pun intended. I also tend to agree with comments to the effect that librul repeats his/her self because of the horrors of this genocide. To bevin and others, if you don't care for librul's remarks - don't read them. Play nice please.

My own comment as a cynical as they come. I wonder if Murika voted against the UN ceasefire proposal simply because a friend of a friend of a friend has a "stakehold" in the Gaza / Palestinian gas fields. Perhaps someone who has a friend of a friend in a Ukrainian gas company.

Posted by: Formerly Miss Lacy | Feb 22 2024 15:33 utc | 31

Tom_Q_Collins 😂 that was hilarious and so crude I'm not going to backlink to it.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 15:34 utc | 32

This is unsurprising that the USA TOLD the ICJ what to do, the USA has already placed sanctions on ICC personnel who opened up cases against US war crimes, only for US pressure to shut them down again, infact the USA (illegally in my opinion) retains the right to invade the ICC and remove any US personnel or allied personnel that it deems worthy of removing (they call it rescuing) from ICC justice.

Back to the ICJ, and its chief judge or chair once worked at the US State Department, talk about stacking the deck. I also think the Ghanian judge at the ICJ backs US, ego Israeli interests.


"The United States has told the International Court of Justice (ICJ) not to order Israel to withdraw from the occupied Palestinian territories until security guarantees are obtained.

The acting legal adviser of the US Department of State, Richard Visek, made the comments on Wednesday, when he was speaking at the public hearings in the advisory proceedings on the Legal Consequences arising from the Policies and Practices of Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East al-Quds.

“The court should not find that Israel is legally obligated to immediately and unconditionally withdraw from occupied territory,” Visek said, just a day after the US used its veto power to reject a draft resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza at the UN Security Council for a third time."

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 22 2024 15:42 utc | 33

https://ask.un.org/faq/177134

Ask DAG
What is the Uniting for peace resolution?

Where can I find information about emergency special sessions of the General Assembly?

General Assembly resolution 377(V) is known as the Uniting for peace resolution. Adopted in 1950, the resolution resolves that if the Security Council fails to exercise its responsibility to maintain international peace and security, the General Assembly may call an emergency special session. To date, 11 emergency special sessions have been convened.

The following information comes from the UN General Assembly Resolutions Tables research guide :
Emergency Special Sessions of the General Assembly

According the the UN General Assembly website on Emergency Special Sessions,

Under the resolution 377A(V), "Uniting for peace", adopted by the General Assembly on 3 November 1950, an emergency special session can be convened within 24 hours:

"Resolves that if the Security Council, because of lack of unanimity of the permanent members, fails to exercise its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security in any case where there appears to be a threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression, the General Assembly shall consider the matter immediately with a view to making appropriate recommendations to Members for collective measures, including in the case of a breach of the peace or act of aggression the use of armed force when necessary, to maintain or restore international peace and security. If not in session at the time, the General Assembly may meet in emergency special session within twenty-four hours of the request therefor. Such emergency special session shall be called if requested by the Security Council on the vote of any seven members, or by a majority of the Members of the United Nations."

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 15:44 utc | 34

Also I hear and see supposedly neutral commentators express that Israel has the right to defend itself, yet I'm under the impression that Israel cannot defend itsef in occupied lands. I take from the below that Israeli forces have no right to defence in occupied lands.

Also there's a UN resolution I can't recall the number that says that not just the Palestinians, but other ethnic groups whose lands are occupied have the RIGHT to take up arms and attack the occupiers.

"Accordance with Clause 27a of the Copyright Law)
A lawyer heading the UN Human Rights Council’s open-ended investigation into Israel’s treatment of Palestinians said Saturday that Israel does not have the right to self-defense against Palestinians, after two deadly terror attacks and volleys of rocket fire against Israel.

Other UN human rights bodies have also been mum about terrorism and rockets — also fired from Lebanon and Syria — over the past week, while criticizing Israel.

Francesca Albanese, the UN special rapporteur for the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, said “the loss of life in the [occupied Palestinian territories and] Israel is devastating, especially at a time that should be of peace for all, Christians, Jews, Muslims.”


“Israel has a right to defend itself, but can’t claim it when it comes to the people it oppresses/whose lands it colonizes,” "

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 22 2024 15:51 utc | 35

Egypt on the ropes. IMF loan near, Suez Canal revenues plunge, LNG production running dry, will cause trade shortage in summer as it will be needed domestically.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-20/egypt-bets-on-imf-deal-to-settle-its-dues-to-foreign-oil-firms?embedded-checkout=true

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 15:51 utc | 36

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 22 2024 15:51 utc | 34

Protocol 1 of Geneva Conventions provides for the right to armed resistance. ICJ Adv Op 2004 stated that Israel as an occupying belligerent power has no right to "self defence" under Art 51 of UN Charter. China addressed this today at the ICJ.

About the construction project by Egypt at Rafah, here is another perspective:
https://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/1234/517909/Egypt/Foreign-Affairs/In-Photos-Egypt-establishing-logistics-hub-for-Gaz.aspx
Excerpt:
"This hub will be used to store and prepare the aid for delivery while protecting it from inclement weather, the governor revealed during a press conference in Arish. The hub includes truck waiting areas, secure warehouses, administrative offices, and accommodation for drivers, the governor explained.

It has been equipped with all necessary amenities and electricity to ensure smooth transportation to and from the area, he added. The new facilities will relieve the burden on drivers, reduce congestion in Arish and on the roads, and facilitate the work of the Egyptian Red Crescent in delivering aid, the governor said."


Currently, the situation in Rafah is:

As per the agreement reached between all stakeholders, trucks are directed first to the Nitzana crossing between Israel and Egypt (around 40 kilometres south of Rafah) for security checks by the Israeli authorities, before they are allowed through the Rafah crossing.
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-flash-update-16

Israel insists on inspecting everything. Trucks entering Rafah turn southeast, drive for 40 km. Israel inspects the trucks, refuses half of them because "Hamas". What is allowed then drives back 40 km back to Kerem Shalom...blocked by protesters.

It's true that hundreds of trucks are sitting around in Egypt while Israel imposes collective punishment cheered on by its backers in the Axis of Genocide: US, UK, EU.

Posted by: pq | Feb 22 2024 16:04 utc | 37

RE: Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 22 2024 15:42 utc | 32

I don’t agree that it is a “stacked deck”. Even the U.S. has a lot riding in this verdict besides Israel. Just like US arbitrary
Insertion of Article 51 “Right 2 Protect” to justify the Kosovo blatant interference and bombing, resulting in Russia’s ability in Ukraine to enact same said article, this ruling will bite US if not handled properly.

The entire UN Charter theme of “Right to Self Determination “ would be rendered null. Which isn’t helpful in their current adventure to “free Taiwan” (why would Taiwanese have right to Self-determination but not Palestinians?)

Their only hope in the course of the next couple of years as far as ICJ “genocide” case against Israel, is too apply myriads upon every known available tactic to get S/A somewhere in the next year or so to drop it. But they have a huge problem now, because many other Nations filed as a piggy back to case. But they are trying, even going so far as to try as designate S/A as a “terrorist” state.
See new U.S. drafted S/A bill to hit Congress.

I am not suggesting any of this legal maneuvering will change anything on the ground or useful for “the now”, but it is and will begin to shape “impunity” in the future.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 16:10 utc | 38

More pressure: the same day the “Uniting for Peace” conference and gathering (Day after February 26th deadline for Israel report to ICJ) Palestinians call for:

“Day of Rage”… February 27th
https://tass.com/world/1750489
Palestinians to hold Day of Rage on February 27 to protest Israeli aggression”

“According to it, the rally will also express support for Palestinian prisoners held in Israeli jails.

According to representatives of the Commission of Prisoners and Ex-Prisoners Affairs at a meeting held in the West Bank city of Al-Bireh, "the Palestinian issue is passing through a critical stage, as Israel has violated Palestinians' rights and turned their lives into hell." The Day of Rage is expected to take place throughout the Palestinian governorates.”

Would appear they are not going to sit-about for a lay down genocide planned for the 10th of March.

Egypt & the exasperated Arab nations will certainly have a time with their own populations that day.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 16:23 utc | 39

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 15:44 utc | 33

"Resolves that if the Security Council, because of lack of unanimity of the permanent members, fails to exercise its primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security in any case where there appears to be a threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression, the General Assembly shall consider the matter immediately with a view to making appropriate recommendations to Members for collective measures, including in the case of a breach of the peace or act of aggression the use of armed force when necessary, to maintain or restore international peace and security. If not in session at the time, the General Assembly may meet in emergency special session within twenty-four hours of the request therefor. Such emergency special session shall be called if requested by the Security Council on the vote of any seven members, or by a majority of the Members of the United Nations."

VERY interesting. Thank you. So mechanisms are in place to resolve things though after almost five months have not been used; so am not holding breath on that front.

Are there accurate figures viz how many Gazans have already left, how many remain in North Gaza & South Gaza? I mean: are they still not allowed to leave, or has an exodus already begun; or are they allowed out but refuse to leave?

If South Gaza is reduced to mainly rubble, as I gather is more or less the case in North Gaza, how exactly are people going to keep living there? All mainly in UN-run refugee camps which get occasionally bombed?

In any case, clearly the intention is to move them out of the territory once and for all, talking points about rooting out Hamas and getting hostages back notwithstanding. Is there any realistic expectation that the Zionists are not going to succeed in this? If Turkey, Iran, China, Russia et alia are not going to step in to prevent it, whether via the UNGA or not, then how else is all this going to end?

Posted by: Scorpion | Feb 22 2024 16:25 utc | 40

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 15:21 utc | 26

Read my voluminous commentary at the Week in Review. I don't have time to play these stupid games anymore. Get back to me after you drop if you are truly interested in further conversation. Also look up sarcasm. Thanks

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 22 2024 16:36 utc | 41

RE: “Also I hear and see supposedly neutral commentators express that Israel has the right to defend itself, …”

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 22 2024 15:51 utc | 34

I honestly haven’t read any MOA commentaries stating this.
Must have missed them.
Apparently, the ICJ already ruled once on this regarding an occupier.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 16:42 utc | 42

Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 15:20 utc | 25--

Thanks for your several replies and additional commentary. The Outlaw trying to force its "rules" onto judicial institutions is open for the world to see and judge what IMO is a criminal action of trying to influence the court. And that will be seen as yet further support for Genocide. Clearly, the US is stuck to its Zionist Tar Baby and only worsens its image.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 22 2024 16:44 utc | 43

A very sobering explanation of the causes and circumstances of the Gaza slaughter by Alastair Crooke

Posted by: kalo | Feb 22 2024 16:51 utc | 44

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 15:20 utc | 25

That is a lovely little linked interview, Trubindi. I have sent it to all my family in both hemispheres! It gives me great hope for the coming generations, and kudos to Rachel Blevins -- bravo!!

Here it is again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TPhe2j7MNM

Posted by: juliania | Feb 22 2024 16:55 utc | 45

ICJ Legality of Israeli occupation

Global South (26 upto Feb 22 morning + Palestine): powerful. One sees the rage that I’ve seen from various FM especially from Israel’s neighbours. Jordan sent the deputy PM. They cover all aspects of the illegal occupation. Maybe they coordinated because they cover different aspects.

Axis of Genocide: US, France, Hungary, Ireland, Netherlands, Russia: hypocritical as always.

Axis of Genocide emphasize solidarity with Israel, focus on the low hanging “violent settlers” and advocate for a political process they can control (as they did over the last 30 years) to save Israel’s apartheid regime.

Most of them mention Oct 7 “terrorism”. Some talk of Israeli hostages with no word on the 11,000 Palestinian hostages including children subject to torture. Nine hostages held by Israel have died from torture since October 7. Especially disgusted by France and Russia offering condolences to Israel but not to Palestine.

Feb 22 morning session:
https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240222-ora-01-00-bi.pdf

China: In pursuit of the right to self-determination, the Palestinian people’s use of force to resist foreign oppression and to complete the establishment of an independent State is an inalienable right well founded in international law. Various peoples freed themselves from colonial rule and foreign oppression to realize independent statehood after World War II.

Armed struggle in this context is distinguished from acts of terrorism. It is grounded in international law. This distinction is acknowledged by several international conventions. Article 3 of the Organisation of African Unity Convention on the Prevention and Combating of Terrorism of 1999 provides that “the struggle waged by peoples in accordance with the principles of international law for their liberation or self-determination, including armed struggle against colonialism, occupation, aggression and domination by foreign forces shall not be considered as terrorist acts.”
China didn’t say much about the various horrors of the occupation (which has been well covered by others) but they did take on the elephant in the room.

Iraq: The Israeli occupying entity must be held accountable for its actions, subjecting it to international criminal liability for violating the principles and charters of human rights and the Geneva Conventions related to human rights during armed conflicts. Seizing Palestinian lands, establishing and expanding settlements on them  and the ongoing detention of thousands of Palestinians, including children and women, in detention centres under harsh conditions affecting their health and jeopardizing their safety without trials according to legal principles and without providing proper care, which could lead to deadly consequences.

Ireland (Axis of Genocide): Sneaky bastards only want sanction on settlers, not on Israel.

Japan: Israel must not occupy Gaza (more than it already does) because “self defense”

Jordan: Israel is illegally detaining thousands of children, men and women, and subjecting them to physical and mental torture, humiliation and abuse.

So yes, Global South vs Global North

Posted by: pq | Feb 22 2024 16:57 utc | 46

Israel has committed serious breaches of a number of peremptory norms of general international law. Today, Major-General Yifat Tomer-Yerushalmi, Israe's top lawyer has issued an unprecedented warning to IOF troops. The letter clearly states that IOF's actions were in “violation of orders” and had crossed the “criminal threshold”. The letter underlined that soldiers’ actions “deviate from orders and disciplinary boundaries” and did not meet the military’s values, ultimately causing “strategic damage” to Israel in the international arena.

Posted by: AI | Feb 22 2024 17:03 utc | 47

RE: Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 22 2024 16:44 utc | 42

Agreed. Although it appears “image” is less important than reasserting ME dominance, hoping for an expanded war for the “Final Solution” of bringing ME to heel, and disrupting China oil to squash China production and is more important than Tar Babys existence. They are happy to sacrifice tar baby if in the end, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria & Iran are incapacitated.

It’s a dream… what can I say? They live in a world of delusions.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 17:06 utc | 48


This is more soldiers than the US has in Syria and Iraq combined:

At least 23 US citizens have been killed fighting for the Israeli army since the start of the ground operation in Gaza started. The number comprises almost 10 percent of the IDF death toll, the Washington Post reports.

Thousands of Americans and American Israelis rushed to join Israel's war on Gaza, which has killed more than 29,000 people, mostly women and children. 

An estimated 23,380 American citizens currently serve in Israeli ranks, according to the Israeli army, the Washington Post reported.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/23-us-citizens-have-died-fighting-israeli-army-gaza?nid=341171&topic=Israel-Palestine%2520war&fid=503296

Posted by: teri | Feb 22 2024 17:08 utc | 49

RE: Posted by: juliania | Feb 22 2024 16:55 utc | 44

Agreed. It’s easy to become discouraged with obvious “now” realities. It gave me some hope too. And put to bed any “benefit of the doubt” I might have had regarding Saudi Arabia & UAE.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 17:09 utc | 50

Posted by: bevin | Feb 22 2024 14:19 utc | 7

##################


Zionism drives Israeli policy and Zionism is an ideology of racial supremacism.

Racism plays an important part in these discussions.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 22 2024 17:13 utc | 51

Egypt & the exasperated Arab nations will certainly have a time with their own populations that day.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 16:23 utc | 38

The most brutal violence I have seen has always been in Europe and North America. Not only for Palestine. Look at Yellow Vests, pandemic protests etc.

The difference:

In Europe/ North America the police are repressing the protestors because their leadership is 100% aligned with Israel There is a huge surveillance and repression apparatus. Their governments send tons of money to Israel that could be better spent at home.

On the other hand, in Arab / Muslim nations, the protests are against Israel, not against their leaders. Arabs and Muslims are not stupid as some people seme to think.

They know that the options to fight the Axis of Genocide are limited. Do you think the average Arab in Egypt or Jordan or Saudi wants to see their country end up like Libya, Iraq, Syria?

Should their leaders
-invade Israel?
-end their limited trade with Israel? How would that stop Israel from dropping the 200,000 tons of munitions supplied by constant air bridges from the US?
- what would happen if Egypt broke the Peace Agreement? How devastating would the escalation be?

Even if they were to block trade to Israel, just as with the sanctions on Russia, the burden will fall on average people within their own countries. The Russian sanctions had a huge negative impact on German and Italian industry, on average people.

It's astonishing that people have a hard time understanding the following:

US, UK, EU can STOP the genocide and there will be NO downside for their populations. There will only be upsides if they dump Israel. There will be more money to spend at home.

For Israel's neighbours: taking on Israel in ANY WAY carries HUGE RISKS. And no benefits. It increases the risk of regional war. The average Egyptian or Jordanian understands this even if the MoA armchair warriors do not.

What actions should Israel's neighbours take that would not hurt their populations but would stop Israel's bombing today???? The million dollar question that is only ever answered by insulting me.

Posted by: pq | Feb 22 2024 17:15 utc | 52


It is not that this theory is unlikely and, in the final analysis, supportive of Israel's claims of omnipotence- everyone makes mistakes of judgement- but that variations on the banal theme saturate these threads.

Posted by: bevin | Feb 22 2024 14:19 utc | 7

bevin, you did get pushback on this, and others have no doubt commented, but I think the 'banal theme' issue is where your comment deserves attention. I would point out that even back at Tonkin Bay in Vietnam there were issues demanding somebody's "attention" concerning the excuse for bloody and interminable war, not to mention the '9/11' clear non-presence of US security for what happened then. These leadups to atrocity are at least as important as the actual events and deserve - are crying out for - that attention.

It's a dereliction of duty of the highest kind of state criminality because in each case the consequences have been so terrible. We here can't really affect those consequences, but we can at least be Paul Reveres in reverse -- it's our duty! So maybe attention will be paid the next time it is tried, so that others will be quicker off the mark and it won't ever happen again.

We citizens are being surveilled up the wahzoo; surely governments must be called on the carpet for such crimes of insufficient defense leading to open borders inviting invasion, as a reason to remain in power. It's far too late to leave those crimes to be sorted out sometime far in the future by historians, when that, as now, has become blatantly obvious even to the citizens of the countries that do this.

(All I am saying is: there ought to be a law: "Obey the Constitution --- or else!")

Posted by: juliania | Feb 22 2024 17:27 utc | 53

Posted by: pq | Feb 22 2024 17:15 utc | 51

################

Nothing moves without the direction of Allah Azawajal.

Many of these critics of the Ummah are disbelievers. Their starting point is ill-equipped to understand martyrdom, jihad, and sabr.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 22 2024 17:28 utc | 54

Trubind1 (37).

I think its a stacked deck, and I'll tell you why, for the ICJ to declare that Israel IS committing genocide it would see Netanyahu, and his generals in the dock at the Hague, along with just about all Western leaders, Scholz, von der Leyen, Biden, Sunak, Trudeau etc and their military generals along side him and that would seriously damage the entire western political and military class as well as undermining a plethora of western bodies, not to mention further damage western economies.

On the other hand if the above doesn't happen the Global South and much of the civilians in the west will think that western authoritative bodies are NOT fit for purpose that they have lost their credibility, and even their legitimacy.


I hope the world accepts nothing less, the likes of Blair and Bush have already gotten away with war crimes this cannot be allowed to happen again.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 22 2024 17:28 utc | 55

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 15:21 utc | 26

Read my voluminous commentary at the Week in Review. I don't have time to play these stupid games anymore. Get back to me after you drop if you are truly interested in further conversation. Also look up sarcasm. Thanks

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 22 2024 16:36 utc | 40

Well if it makes you feel better Tom I did read your over 40 comments, just on page one, and all the comments buried amongst a threat of 400. And that doesn't include the numerous responses.

It was a good use of time. I didn't get any new information out of it but largely agree with what I read. Anyways I'm maintain my current position on this. I think the truth remains buried in the fog of War.

I don't think I'm precisely tracking what you're saying but please don't feel obliged to respond. Scrolling is free of charge.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 17:30 utc | 56

"I honestly haven’t read any MOA commentaries stating this.
Must have missed them."


Trubind1 (41)

The MSM often repeats that Israel has the right to defend itself, but they don't mention that they don't have this right in occupied lands.

James Obrien on LBC radio often repeats that MSM mantra.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 22 2024 17:32 utc | 57

But, as usual but, there is a court case going on and actual concrete evidence of this could be included as further evidence of genocide. It could be relevant. It adds the element of premeditation to what's currently going on in Gaza. Well, more evidence of premeditation.

@Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 15:32 utc | 29

'Premeditation', a concise and penetrating word. Good point, thx.

Posted by: librul | Feb 22 2024 17:36 utc | 58

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 15:20 utc | 25

Francis Boyle makes a lot of claims about what he accomplished for Bosnia. When you read the rulings...he exaggerates. It was easier sailing for him, considering he was taking on NATO's enemy Serbia. Yes, that makes a difference. When I listen to his interviews, I find that he praises himself a lot.

It would not be a good idea for any Muslim / Arab country to join the genocide case because it will be spun to the media as "anti Semitic Muslims want Holocaust 2.0, poor Israel". If you recall, the OIC within 12 hours, endorsed the application. Which means they had already agreed to support it.

South Africa has already been accused of being Hamas' legal arm by Israel....I can only imagine if they were Muslims.

US, UK, EU can halt arms shipments, can halt their Red Sea ops, they can pull all financial and diplomatic support for Israel and the bombing will stop TODAY.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/20/high-court-rejects-legal-challenge-against-uk-arms-sales-to-israel

Since 2015 there have been £472m in limited value “standard” licence grants and 58 unlimited value “open” licences to Israel, according to the organisations, which argue that open licences lack transparency and allow for unlimited quantities. So half a biilion £ is the minimum...

Instead of getting third hand info of Saudi and UAE by watching random youtubers quote an annoyed Boyle...I recommend going to the source: read or better yet, listen to the powerful statements made directly by them at the ICJ.

A large number of social media types today have one purpose: focus on Palestinian suffering and redirect anger away from the those responsible: EU, UK, US.

Posted by: pq | Feb 22 2024 17:37 utc | 59

Equating the Zionist economy with Russia's is a fallacy. The Zionists are heavily dependent on imports, food especially, but also energy needs. Russia has the ability to exist on its own resources and via trade with friendly nations. The economic blockade is the best non-violent tool nations can use to exert pressure on the Zionists. No, it won't change the current polling favoring Genocide, but given time to work the trade siege can cause change. The big key of course is stopping the abettors of Genocide--NATO mostly--but succor provided by the Turks and regional Arab states also make them abettors too. And the Zionists can't attack all of them.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 22 2024 17:38 utc | 60

Racism plays an important part in these discussions.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Feb 22 2024 17:13 utc | 50

Bingo.

It's why a lot of people on this thread who are from Five Eyes or EU don't want to take the blame on ourselves but keep seeking to outsource the guilt, shame and responsibility to Arabs, Muslims. The entire Org for Islamic Coop OIC could cut all trade with Israel by midnight today and it would make zero difference to genocide.

Europe would ship whatever is needed.

Posted by: Pq | Feb 22 2024 17:51 utc | 61

@Bevin

You are throwing your pearls before swine here, comrade. The blog owner's unwillingness to crack down on the fascism displayed by roughly half his regulars here makes reasoned discussion in the comments impossible.

Posted by: Brautigan | Feb 22 2024 17:54 utc | 62

@ 59
Yes the blockades, Boycotts, and other economic tools are working well to damage Israel.
Their GDP has plunged 20% since Oct 7th. Israel is spending 270 million per day to fund its illegal war. Its taking a heavy toll on Israel, and soon the US. As Israel's economy sinks in the Red Sea. The US will have to start paying for the war in both money and blood.
Death by 1000 cuts.

Posted by: golddigger | Feb 22 2024 18:03 utc | 63

As I sat pondering the Brilliance of Hamas and recent events I suddenly asked myself a question.

How many events in recent times have suddenly and foundationally changed Western thinking?

Certainly actions by the evil empire. 9/11, covid. Russophobia doesn't count because it's a long-term project although it took a sudden shift when the Smo started.

And October 7th. Overnight the views of the world were changed by a desperate last attempt at survival by the people of Gaza.

As the multi-polar world emerges I believe they will be influenced by this outrage.

While we're asking questions about Israel having for knowledge of the October 7th operation, I wonder to what degree Hamas knew that Nintendo would overreact? He's always being a nut job.

The popular belief is that nobody anticipated a determined genocide to occur. But I've heard little discussion as to what extent the resistance has infiltrated Israeli intelligence.

You know in Russia there's a saying. Thank you Joe Biden. Really been a big help to the Russians.

Genocide is not a joking matter, but one day they might be saying "thank you Benny, we couldn't have done it without you."

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 18:04 utc | 64

RE: Posted by: pq | Feb 22 2024 17:37 utc | 58

As for Francis Boyle. I pretty much discard any "bragger" that doesn't have "bragging rights", but, he in fact does. He has worked for those rights, and he did in fact, se a historical precedence. Of course not all by his lonesome, nevertheless, I've no interest in letting a "personality" clash, if I had one, taint the accomplishments anyone. He is older now, and clearly not in need of money or fame, yet continues to provide his expertise and experience to a just cause.

As for Muslim "optics"... and how things are "spun", even Non-Arab Muslim Nations are currently under the "anti-emetic" tropes and accusations. They would just be one more. All nations are being tested for "optics" vs "truth". They've chosen their destiny.

They are numerous ways, such as you mentioned to have the bombing stop today. There is no will.

You asserted and assumed, without inquiring, that I have not listened to each and every ICJ Nation State and their current testimonies. I'm happy to correct that,
yes, I listen to 2nd 3rd party podcast, whom for the most part, receive their information for sources on the ground, or in direct interviews with others, who are actively involved in either legal or humanitarian campaigns on the ground.

I have also watched every UNSC council live meeting, and all of the ICJ live proceedings, hearings and testimonies, as well as live speeches given by National Leaders.
I've zero interest in "politics" without substance. Where I see substance, I will repeat on MOA, as was the very powerful China ICJ testimony that others linked and shared.
Of course the diversion blame game PR narrative is flailing about, and some may not have taken the thread to the spool yet, but most have and know the source of the evil.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 18:12 utc | 65

"What actions should Israel's neighbours take that would not hurt their populations but would stop Israel's bombing today???? The million dollar question that is only ever answered by insulting me."

Posted by: pq | Feb 22 2024 17:15 utc | 51

I never insulted you, and I have noted your question on a few occasions. And again I pause to ask myself that. One simple step would be to impose sanctions, cease trade and recall ambassadors.

I'm more important that they could take is to covertly send in more advanced arms in quantity. Or whatever material support they can get in. A difficult task.

I would suggest routing large amounts of dark money to a third party far away from Israel that could then hire 50,000 Mercenaries.

You could also consider a volunteer army or just general advice to citizenry to assemble with those nice folks in Lebanon. You would get more volunteers than you could Supply. Hundreds of thousands.

So I don't pretend to have good answers but I took your question seriously.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 18:24 utc | 66

Trubind
Boyle does a lot of self promo. The statements of ksa and uae were read today (they have sent them months ago for the judges to read, since the advice of the court was asked by tge unga on 30 dec 2022) but added elements related to the current situation. Their position is extremly clear and implies Israel to pull out now of all occupied territories, pay reparation, allow a pal state with East Jerusalem as capital.

In my opinion they are right to exhaust all the legal means before further diplomatic and economic moves. And these should be exhausted too before a hot war can be thought about.

Posted by: Minaa | Feb 22 2024 18:27 utc | 67

Bevin i think your in denial, if the truth Librul repeats irate's you just scroll past.
But you cant repeat the truth often enough in this post truth world.
Every campagine the west starts is based on a false statment or lie. Liberul exposes the fundimental simple lie here, and should continue to do so.
Other random examples.
Russia poisened the Skripals. Lie.
Sadan Hassan had weopens of massdistruction. Lie.
"Binladen was the master mind behind 9/11. Lie.
Ukraine conflict started 24 feb. 2022.
There are many other examples, im sure you will agree.
Librul nails the lie.
Daily people come to this blog looking for the truth. Dont disrupt that Please.

Since way before 2 oct israel has been seeking to expand israel. Ther is no coinsidence here."


Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 22 2024 15:02 utc | 16

A good as well as fair post.

Posted by: canuck | Feb 22 2024 18:32 utc | 68

teri | Feb 22 2024 17:08 utc | 48

An estimated 23,380 American citizens currently serve in Israeli ranks, according to the Israeli army, the Washington Post reported

This presents an interesting juxtaposition, teri.

While Federally employed dual citizen Israeli/American neocons manage and implement a genocide against the Palestinian people, dual Israeli/American citizens are prohibited from enlisting in the US Army.

Posted by: john | Feb 22 2024 18:33 utc | 69

Libril - I have great respect for your focus on how and why this started. This is as critically important as how the Ukraine situation started.

I believe it is critically important to always note that the israel al aqsa mosque attack was a huge provocation to the Hamas 10/7 event. This was a huge issue not only for the Palestinians but for all Muslims.

It actually doesn't even make any sense unless it was done to goose the planed 10/7 event into something big enough to trigger the larger reaction.

Thanks for your good work.
Cheers! jef

Posted by: jef | Feb 22 2024 18:35 utc | 70

Pq, what you say about the position of the "Axis of Genocide: US, France, Hungary, Ireland, Netherlands, Russia: hypocritical as always." At the ICJ is untrue. Ireland has made one of the powerful statements so far, specifically in debunking the legal tricks if the US statement which argued for the absence of powers of the ICJ wrt to what they try to present as a bilateral dispute. Netherlands and France were surprisingly pro Palestinian but the statements were sent before october. Anyway they did not amend much apparently and aknowledge the legality of the consultation and call fir a Palestinian state with Jerusalem as capital and reparations to be paid to the Palestinians and the victims.
Maybe they should have a look at the contracts they sign both on the national and the EU levels.

Posted by: Minaa | Feb 22 2024 18:39 utc | 71

68 - That's interesting. An American named Kramer boasted of killing Palestinians as a sniper while serving in the 1982 Lebanon war in the IDF. He was probably not unique then and his kind have proliferated.

Posted by: Waldorf | Feb 22 2024 18:42 utc | 72

Today : Yemeni Navy claimed attack on English military Ship causing it to smoke/burn as well as attack on USN destroyer plus some missiles against Eliat

https://english.almanar.com.lb/2051502

Posted by: Exile | Feb 22 2024 18:56 utc | 73

…..An estimated 23,380 American citizens currently serve in Israeli ranks, according to the Israeli army, the Washington Post reported……

That’s 5% of total IDF fully mobilized

Posted by: Exile | Feb 22 2024 18:58 utc | 74

bevin @ 7
??????
It's already been completely proven over the last few months with numerous credible links.

Where the hell have you been? Did you suddenly crawl out of some hole in the ground recently??
And don't get me started with your utterly incomprehensible notion that there is NO City of London power and control entity....

Posted by: bisfugged | Feb 22 2024 19:14 utc | 75

Saudi Arabia's speech at the ICJ is a must watch.

Puts an end to all the speculations about their intentions regarding their relationship with Israel.

Posted by: alpi | Feb 22 2024 19:20 utc | 76

@Canuck

Read Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 22 2024 15:07 utc | 19

Hello Canuck, Greg and all the other wet blanket wowsers! Tom is right, but where's the pile-on for him? It just proves to me that it's academics you hate. They really must have done a number on you in college. Either that or they had the temerity to tell you simply didn't cut it.

Bevin, Tom Q, David Horsmann, UWDude—post on, post on!!

Meanwhile, to stay on topic, the first highway to Gaza Heights 5-star Resorts and Hotels is being built...

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 22 2024 19:25 utc | 77

Bisfugged: clearly your idea of proof is peculiar. You appear however to excel in childish insults. As well as crude misrepresentation: I have never suggested that the City of London's financial power is not considerable, particularly in British politics, but it is not and has not been since at last 1931, the centre of capitalist finance, which is what made it important in the first place.

I came here however not to waste my time in silly argument with someone who sees this forum as a playground but to share this important editorial from Tribune.
It argues the importance of the massive, and rapidly growing, movement in western public opinion in favour of Palestine and the increasing isolation of pro-genocide politicians.

".....And yet it is fitting that it is Palestine which exposes these authoritarian impulses. For years, Palestine has provided the pretext for the Labour Right’s tightening of factional control over Labour and for purging dissenters. In recent months, however, it has also posed a challenge to the political order these people wish to maintain.

"If the leadership of Starmer is best understood as a project dedicated to the narrowing of democratic horizons, the cause of Palestine has been a movement of opening. The millions of ordinary people taking to the streets and organising against genocide in open defiance of Britain’s ruling class beckons the return of the mass politics which Labour’s leadership defines itself against.

"This is why the establishment encourages the most grotesque of smears against the Palestinian people and will go to such lengths to stifle discussion. The prevention of the SNP’s motion was cynically justified by Hoyle as necessary to protect pro-war MPs from a feral public, and Labour framed it as beyond the boundaries of acceptable debate, refusing to accept a text referring to Israel’s ‘collective punishment’ of Palestinians. After 30,000 deaths, the destruction of 70 per cent of Gaza’s buildings, and a famine looming, a fundamental denial of the Palestinian people’s humanity is a precondition to such political assertion.

"But it is worth remembering that the distraction from Gaza provided by the upending of parliament was done in defence of an onslaught that a mere 13 percent of British people support. Our domestic elites know even this support is waning, which has led to undignified, disingenuous attempts to divert the anti-war movement with insincere statements in support of ending the slaughter, suggesting at least some need to reflect the mass movement’s popularity among the population.

"This is why nobody fighting for justice for the Palestinian people should be dispirited. Yesterday’s parliamentary chicanery only happened because the powerful fear that the tried-and-tested methods of crushing democratic pressure are becoming unsustainable. As the Israeli armed forces pummel and starve Palestinians with delight, political support for such a war machine is becoming increasingly untenable — and is already completely unacceptable to millions of people in Britain. The days of insulating themselves from the British public on this question, they fear, may soon be over.

The Hoyle referred to is the Speaker of the House of Commons in Westminster, who yesterday made a corrupt deal to prevent a Scottish National Party motion calling for a ceasefire and an end to collective punishment, from being voted on. With 13% of the public supporting the position of the government, the Opposition and Israel, Hoyle felt that MPs voting against a ceasefire put themselves at risk.

Posted by: bevin | Feb 22 2024 19:30 utc | 78

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 15:13 utc | 22

Good questions there.
Has librul ever listed sources for his allegations?
If so where can they be found? Anyone?
Most of his posts are just repetition of his theme with no links.
I've seen him refer to NYT and Israeli media but when did they become reliable?
A lot of vacuous cheer leading going on.

Brautigan @ | Feb 22 2024 17:54 utc | 61 isn't far off the mark, except I don't think b is at fault.


Posted by: waynorinorway | Feb 22 2024 19:33 utc | 79

Posted by: Brautigan | Feb 22 2024 17:54 utc | 61

Hear hear.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 22 2024 19:39 utc | 80

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 22 2024 19:25 utc | 76

When I jumped into IT in the late '70s everything we did was self-taught if not created ad hoc. Although the first thing I would add is that not everyone has the opportunity I did to pursue self study.

I enjoy discussions with academics here and always find it informative. Appeals to Authority get immediately challenged here and so I rarely hear credentials mentioned. When I do it's usually someone sharing a personal anecdote of some sort.

Anyways it's becoming rather a parent that you got s*** on in this regard. However you be quite wrong and thinking there's not numerous people here with some fairly extensive academic credentials.

My first thought was to react to Tom's grammar policing except that, as some have requested, he masterfully coached it in the language of the native tongue of the OP.

That and it was hilarious.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 19:46 utc | 81

The local grammar police must love all the wonderfully creative errors my voice dictation software generates. It takes at least as much creative license says chat GTP.
I noticed it has a tendency to generate vulgar insults out of the most mundane sentences. Beware.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 19:48 utc | 82

Patroklos @ 76
For you this subject is academic.
Thats the problem.

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 22 2024 19:51 utc | 83

RE: “In my opinion they are right to exhaust all the legal means before further diplomatic and economic moves. And these should be exhausted too before a hot war can be thought about.”

Posted by: Minaa | Feb 22 2024 18:27 utc | 66

Well, it could get “hotter” I suppose… if full on genocide, displacement, burning Palestinian homes in West Bank and missiles lobbed from Israel, Yemen, Hezbollah, Iraq & Syria doesn’t constitute a “hot war” … then… sure!

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 19:59 utc | 84

What everyone seems to forget is that: organizations are made up of people. Therefore, the effectiveness of an organization is equal to the effectiveness of the most ineffective of its members.
The CIA and the FBI, the Mossad, whatever you want, are anachronistic fables where desk hierarchs absorb information to become millionaires, and that does not imply security or the fulfillment of duty, etc.
The conviction and commitment of people locked up and buried in life is underestimated, a little more than right now but not very different: collectively, life, to be considered as such, does not support the label of slavery, persecution and confinement . The plan of Hamas or whoever they are, or who they will be tomorrow, takes years, decades, of planning and self-description. He simply took advantage of a mismatch to implode.
That the corporate media pretends to give credence to those who say that everything was being investigated, known...that there were certain "permissions" and that everything was being, in some way, monitored and permitted, is a painkiller for hate sufferers, who do not They do not know nor do they want to see that the world has changed completely, perhaps faster than the time it takes them to return to their caves before sunlight hits them.

Posted by: Santi | Feb 22 2024 20:03 utc | 85

I've taken the liberty of sending out an interplanetary distress call. We should hear back in about a half a million years.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 20:08 utc | 86

Waynorinorth @ 78
The links ectra are all there on this very blog. MOA Archives is our freand.
Cheers

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 22 2024 20:09 utc | 87

RE: Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 20:08 utc | 85

That soon?? Still beats the speed of this realm. 🛸 hopeful

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 20:19 utc | 88

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 22 2024 20:09 utc | 86
That's no help. The archives are a black hole.
Why not just tell me to check the internet?
Can none of you cheer leaders for librul supply the links?
You're the ones making the claims. Where's the evidence?

Posted by: waynorinorway | Feb 22 2024 20:20 utc | 89

"Brautigan @ | Feb 22 2024 17:54 utc | 61 isn't far off the mark, except I don't think b is at fault."
Posted by: waynorinorway | Feb 22 2024 19:33 utc | 78

Posted by: Brautigan | Feb 22 2024 17:54 utc | 61
Hear hear.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 22 2024 19:39 utc | 79

Given that the two biggest Global conflicts involved fascist States it's Small Wonder we get our share of fascist trolls these days.

What's disappointing is that there usually just drive by Childish insults. Taunting as opposed to argument.

Really! I could do a much better job. B should set me up with a sock puppet account just so I can promote the benefits and Glory you said fascism.

I mean let's start with Anatomy of the State. You can't argue with that because anybody that mentions this social contract nonsense is just a weakling soyboy communist.

Actually that was a notable example where modeling ideology concerned me. It's an extremely solid argument formed by leaving aspects out.

A useful metric I came up with was to leave out citizenship completely when analyzing a country. Said a different way you could assume that every person in the US kills is a US citizen. In that light what kind of system do they have?

DWDude? Anyone? Does anyone know of existing geopolitical computer models?

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 20:23 utc | 90

The links ectra are all there on this very blog. MOA Archives is our freand.
Cheers

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 22 2024 20:09 utc | 86
An excellent use case for neural networking and AI.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 20:27 utc | 91

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 20:08 utc | 85
——————-
Excellent!
This time span would fit the US agenda to not undermine by unilateral actions (like Israel condemnation) the negotiations for a two state solution.
Lol.

Posted by: scc | Feb 22 2024 20:28 utc | 92

@Posted by: waynorinorway | Feb 22 2024 20:20 utc | 88

Get...outta...here!

I have been supplying links for weeks/months!

Posted by: librul | Feb 22 2024 20:31 utc | 93

If you cant be botherd to look why should we for you ? Its an open resource. But tbis shows the importance of spotting the original lie, if left unchallenged it becomes accepted, it becommes stale. And set as a false fact.
A lie is like a small snow ball rolling down a mountain, if left it becomes huge... an avalanch. Thats where we are now.
Gerbels or was it gorbols said it.

He he.

Much respect your a good commenter here.

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 22 2024 20:32 utc | 94

Hot war wld mean Iranian missiles raining and Egyptian, Turkish and Iraqi armies in movement.

Posted by: Minaa | Feb 22 2024 20:33 utc | 95

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 22 2024 19:51 utc | 82

I think for everyone in cosy Western cities with time enough on their hands to post on this blog the subject is academic. Doesn't mean you and I are not on the same page. It's easy to forget that what unites us all here is our disgust and sadness at the failure of the world we live in. For me at least academic research should always be guided by this critique, not for esoteric consumption or destined for some dusty corner of the library, but underpinned by the sentiment of Thesis 11.

But just to be clear: I have former students and colleagues who are among the most brilliant, sensitive and incisive people I've ever met. They are driven by the desire to educate the young, understand the world and hold BS to account. Whatever else one may think goes on in actual universities, I believe in the idea of the university—whether it be Epicurus' garden, Plato's Grove of Akademos, or Aristotle's Lykeion.

When I hear people attacking professors and academics just because they are professors and academics I am reminded of the awful passage in Primo Levi's Se questo è un uomo: there was green triangle kapo who would greet disembarking inmates at Auschwitz. He would ask what occupation they each had. Then he would single out judges, musicians, academics and other educated professionals and beat them mercilessly with a truncheon, all the while shouting "so you think you're better than me, eh?".

Small men with large chips. Millions of them all nursing grudges until they're swept up into a new SA. Beware: the hate is very strong in them.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 22 2024 20:33 utc | 96

Hi Mark2. Actually getting information out of archives can be extremely difficult and usually requires search tools.

One example comes to mind is this peace Professor who's got a massive volume of written work and other archives related to peace studies. This led to an Institute being set up related to it.

So because it's open source it seemed like an excellent test case. But b's vast archives and related links they contain would no doubt be a gold mine and huge resource to everyone.

It's a powerful readily available resource that deals with a long-term difficult problem.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 20:41 utc | 97

Patrolklos @ 95
Thanks for your reply, it sounds genuine.
What you describe, i would call karma.
Humilty is a very important ingredient of wisdom. No one is superior to any one else.

Some of us here carefully preserve our anger and outrage to prevent 'normalisation'
Its a survival tactic.
The diverstiy here is a plus not a minus.
Nazis being the exception, their better dead.

Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 22 2024 20:51 utc | 98

RE: Posted by: scc | Feb 22 2024 20:28 utc | 91
“Excellent!
This time span would fit the US agenda to not undermine by unilateral actions (like Israel condemnation) the negotiations for a two state solution.
Lol.” 🍻

😂

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 22 2024 20:52 utc | 99

"Small men with large chips. Millions of them all nursing grudges until they're swept up into a new SA. Beware: the hate is very strong in them."

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 22 2024 20:33 utc | 95
Sure but don't personalize all that. There is quite a long history of propagandized hostility towards the scientific and/or academic community.

I am reminded that it's quite a recent modern phenomena where small academically minded children are suddenly cool. There are many movies around Geeks as Heroes. Interesting anyways.

There has been a huge drop in the Public's trust and belief in mainstream media.

However at the same time there have been huge breaches in trust, corruption and corporatism that have taken place within science, medicine, and Academia too. The public's trust has collapsed there as well. Think big Pharma and covid but only as a recent topical example.

You aren't responsible for that and I can understand how painful it must be given the kind of person you are. Peace.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 22 2024 20:58 utc | 100

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