Nasrallah Responds To Israeli Attack On Civilians In Lebanon
Two days ago I wrote about The Escalation In Northern Palestine. The latest event describe therein was an Israeli 'retaliation' airstrike which killed Lebanese civilians:
Predictably the Israeli occupation forces responded to the strike on Safad by escalating further:
The Israeli military said Wednesday its fighter jets "began a series of strikes in Lebanon", raising fears of a war between the two countries after months of cross-border fire.The military gave no further details of the air strikes, while Lebanese media reported air raids on southern villages including Adchit, Sawwaneh and Shihabiyeh.
The strikes came hours after fire from Lebanon wounded multiple people in northern Israel, according to medics.
...
Fears have been growing of another full-blown conflict between Israel and Hezbollah, with tens of thousands displaced on both sides of the border and regional tensions soaring."I don't know when the war in the north is, I can tell you that the likelihood of it happening in the coming months is much higher than it was in the past," Israeli military chief Herzi Halevi said last month.
Following the last Israeli strikes, the Lebanese side said that four civilians had been killed or wounded by them.
The increase of hostility is getting to a point where there will no longer be the question "if" another war between Israel and Hizbullah will occur but only the question of "when".
Today Hizbullah leader Hassan Nasrallah held another speech announcing his response (notes taken from the live coverage by Al-Manar):
Sayyed Nasrallah: In February 1992, the resistance formulated an equation to protect civilians, which was formally established in July 1993
We absolutely do not tolerate any harm to civilians, and it is imperative that the enemy realizes they have crossed a red line in this regard
Since October 7, there has been immense global pressure to prevent the southern front from opening up to support Gaza. The enemy’s tactic, through targeting civilians, is to coerce the resistance into halting its actions
The response to the massacre must be an escalation of resistance efforts on the front, the enemy should anticipate this response
The enemy will pay the price in blood for shedding the blood of our women and children in Nabatieh, Al-Suwanah, and elsewhere
Both friend and foe will witness that the price for this bloodshed will be exacted in blood, not in structures, vehicles, or surveillance devices
It is essential for Americans and Zionists to understand that in Palestine, they are confronting a people who will not retreat, regardless of the sacrifices or challenges they face
The Lebanese resistance possesses powerful and precise missile capabilities, enabling its reach from Kiryat Shmona to Eilat
As the Israeli army has evacuated civilians from all settlements near the Lebanese border Hizbullah's response will likely be on a partially civilian target deeper within Israel.
Nasrallah also rejected the Israeli massacre propaganda which followed October 7:
Sayyed Nasrallah: Today, one of our responsibilities is to clarify the facts, as there has been a significant Israeli distortion of events since October 7
The Israeli media attempted to portray the resistance and Hamas on October 7 as “ISIL” in a distorted manner
The Israelis failed to present a single slaughtered child or raped girl to the world; instead, the settlers who were killed were actually victims of Israeli army fire
Many believed in the Israeli historical falsification regarding October 7, including countries that claim to be friends with the Hamas movement
...
Sayyed Nasrallah: The Israeli goal was to displace Palestinians from occupied Palestine, relocating the people of the West Bank to Jordan, those of Gaza to Egypt, and those of the 1980s to Lebanon
Operation Al-Aqsa Flood exposed this long-standing Israeli objective of establishing a purely Jewish state extending from the sea to the river
The project of establishing a purely Jewish state not only targets Palestinians but also poses a threat to Jordan, Egypt, and Lebanon
In memory of our martyred leaders, we reaffirm the efficacy of popular resistance as a viable option
The speech emphasized U.S. responsibility for whatever Israel does with the money and weapons the U.S. delivers to it.
It included remarks designed to calm the political scene within Lebanon.
The take from the speech is that the conflict is far from over and that all elements point to a further escalation of the simmering war.
Meanwhile:
Vast majority of Israelis support new Lebanon invasion: poll - The New Arab, Feb 16, 2024
Seventy-one percent of Israelis believe Israel should conduct a large-scale military operation against Lebanon to deter Hezbollah, a recent poll has shown.The survey was conducted by the Israeli Maariv newspaper amid worsening cross-border violence between the Israeli army and the powerful Iran-backed Hezbollah militant group.
...
A growing number of Israelis, especially those who evacuated their homes in the north, have urged their government to take decisive action against Hezbollah and push them away from the frontier, even if that means a land invasion.
The Zionists have no idea what will come at them ...
Posted by b on February 16, 2024 at 16:11 UTC | Permalink
next page »thanks b... i agree with nasrallah, especially about how he describes the "ISIL" distorted presentation of oct 7th... that is very true..
Posted by: james | Feb 16 2024 16:26 utc | 2
The US bible belt believes these wars are Good News, "Jesus is Coming".
They also believe the Devil will bring forth an antichrist - a fake Jesus.
If the Devil has that power to deceive, a fake Jesus, he would have the power
to create a fake Israel.
They can see what a Beast fake Israel is, but nothing will ever open their eyes. Nothing.
Posted by: librul | Feb 16 2024 16:29 utc | 3
of course the irony in nasrallah comment about that is israel was very supportive of ISIS, or ISIL at the time of their western supported onslaught in syria.. they had ISIS members sent to hospitals in israel and all the rest of it... bullshit/propaganda artists thru and thru..
Posted by: james | Feb 16 2024 16:29 utc | 4
@ librul | Feb 16 2024 16:29 utc | 3
good point.. there is so much fakery going on, it is kind of a given, and yet those bible punchers can't see any of it..
Posted by: james | Feb 16 2024 16:31 utc | 5
Nasrallah: The Israelis failed to present a single slaughtered child or raped girl to the world; instead, the settlers who were killed were actually victims of Israeli army fire.
@Posted by: librul | Feb 16 2024 16:24 utc | 1
The Hannibal Doctrine was a most essential feature to the Intentional Security Failure by the so-called IDF.
Without it iZrael could not raise the blood thirst of their adherents to a level that would enable and permit Genocide.
Posted by: librul | Feb 16 2024 16:34 utc | 6
Yes to me also it looks a foregone conclusion that all out war with Lebanon is on the cards, one wonder how the Israeli public will react when Hizbullah decides to attack deep within Israel itself, up until now the citizens of Israel have had it fairly easy.
Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 16 2024 16:43 utc | 7
I still say, focus on Jewish immigration to Palestine as well as the formation of Israel itself, as a bastion against all prior claims to the natural wealth and people native to the area is about British and western corporate Investments in the oil and gas reserves and pipelines through out not only the the middle east but throughout Europe, Africa, the Far East and South America.
It all began in 1865 when it was discovered by members of several then global corporations that petroleum was replacing the disappearing whale oil, and the consequences of enforcing slavery was no longer a profitable undertaking for making colonies profitable.
Nearly all events by nation state and investors alike since then can be traced to access, ownership or production of oil, gas, and ownership and operations of oil and gas distribution systems needs or wants.
IMO, Israel is a result of British oil and gas greed and the timing of the current effort to remove the native Palestinians is about removing the Palestinian claim to the just now becoming viable oil and gas reserves, production and pipeline profits which can be had in Palestine and the surrounding middle east.
The Real function of the nation state system has been to allow to manipulate the states in order to pit one group against another in order to achieve the ultimate oil and gas goal.
Posted by: snake | Feb 16 2024 16:47 utc | 8
Uncle Sugar says: you need a big war to cover for a small genocidal war you are losing. Let’s go big, boys, we got your back. Empire blood will be spilt and treasure spent, to keep the empire alive. That’s how it works — to the last Israeli.
Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Feb 16 2024 16:51 utc | 9
The 'Eschatological-Garrison/Settler-Colonial' [h/t Big Serge] not-normal Zionist State is now fully-coked up on bloody Amalek fever.
War with Hezbollah now looks inevitable. And the US will, again, bomb Lebanon to come to the aid of the 'Eschatological-Garrison/Settler-Colonial' not-normal Zionist State' in an attempt to prevent fatal Masada fever breaking out from 'Kiryat Shmona to Eilat'.
This will not be pretty. Nasrallah's rockets are primed, targeted, and ready.
Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 16 2024 17:00 utc | 10
Gutless "Israel's" Fake War On "Hamas" is rapidly descending into farce.
Too piss-weak to confront "Hamas" toe to toe, they spend ALL of their 'strategic planning' time dreaming up lies about the most harmless targets they can think of: Hospitals, clinics, bakeries, UN workers, ambulance drivers and ambulances, doctors & nurses, and 'discovering' 'Hamas' fighters next to, or underneath EVERY soft target.
The lying sleaziness & cowardice are beyond mind-boggling. A truly shitty little cuntry.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 16 2024 17:03 utc | 11
This is the Big Serge Piece - very relevant here - as I posted on previous open Palestine thread earlier today ....
Big Serge worth reading on this one re Palestine -
The Age of Zugzwang
The Merciless Grip of Geostrategic Logic
Israel as an 'Eschatological Garrison State and a Settler-Colonial State'
https://bigserge.substack.com/p/the-age-of-zugzwang
Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 16 2024 14:07 utc | 129
Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 16 2024 17:03 utc | 12
Words only go so far. Who will take action? The Arab elites won't act unless they are forced to by their people
Posted by: Chris N | Feb 16 2024 17:13 utc | 13
The Cradle has a new posting up with the title
Biden discusses ‘next stage’ of Gaza war with Netanyahu
https://thecradle.co/articles/biden-discusses-next-stage-of-gaza-war-with-netanyahu
the quote
Netanyahu had been meeting with CIA chief William Burns, the Israeli war cabinet, and the security cabinet before stepping out of the meeting to take the call with Biden, according to Hebrew media reports.
“My positions can be summarized in the following two sentences. Israel categorically rejects international dictates regarding a permanent settlement with the Palestinians. Such an arrangement will be reached only through direct negotiations between the parties, without preconditions,” he said after the phone call.“Israel will continue to oppose the unilateral recognition of a Palestinian state. Such recognition in the wake of the October 7 massacre would give a huge reward to unprecedented terrorism and prevent any future peace settlement.”
SSDD = Same Shit, Different Day
Posted by: psychohistorian | Feb 16 2024 17:19 utc | 14
I wonder how much humbling these jackasses are going to need before they figure out their military is a paper tiger populated by rank amateurs. They are getting their ass kicked in Gaza, they're going to go north now? Good luck.
Meanwhile:
“Vast majority of Israelis support new Lebanon invasion: poll - The New Arab, Feb 16, 2024”
The gods first make mad…
‘“Israeli rappers call for Dua Lipa, Bella Hadid and Mia Khalifa to be KILLED in controversial chart-topping war anthem which tells the celebrities they deserve 'what's coming' By Jamie Shapiro 05:34 EST 15 Feb 2024 , updated 09:52 EST 15 Feb 2024” ‘
From my post on previous thread .
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2024/02/palestine-open-thread-2024-051.html?cid=6a00d8341c640e53ef02c8d3ab13db200b#comment-6a00d8341c640e53ef02c8d3ab13db200b
Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 16 2024 17:32 utc | 16
@snake | Feb 16 2024 16:47 utc | 8
what oil resources were known in 1865 in that area?
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Feb 16 2024 17:47 utc | 17
petergrfstrm | Feb 16 2024 17:47 utc | 17
You might add "and what global corporations" were involved.
The answer to both questions is 'none of any importance.'
The foundation of Israel had almost nothing to with oil and gas. The crucial decisions were taken more than a century ago, there was some minor interest in using Palestine, via rail, as a 'backdoor' to Iraq's oil production.
Posted by: bevin | Feb 16 2024 18:00 utc | 18
It seems to me that we are seeing the forces that are able to absorb USUKIS long range fires without significant strategic damage are upping the conflict every time that USUKIS does. Hezbollah and Yemen are very resilient and can continue the struggle indefinitely at current levels, and so they are 'winning' at this level. The urge to escalate is therefore very strong in USUKIS, but most people understand that not only will that produce a much more devastating response from Hezbollah and the Houthi, but that the H and H response will deplete the defensive resources of USUKIS in the ME to the point where the more powerful actors can and must enter the conflict. Israel will go away, once and for all, and not even nuclear war can save it.
So, if this is the case, what accounts for USUKIS behavior? First and foremost, a lack of better options. If you're holding a busted flush, you have to fold or bluff. The US has too much in the pot to fold, and Israel is all-in. Britain no longer makes its own decisions, so while they could most sensibly abandon Israel, they aren't able to do so until the US does (except to the degree that wrecking their own propellor shafts represents defection from the cause).
USUKIS is running a bluff, and keeps throwing money in the pot, but at some point there has to be a showdown, and the US and UK, at least, have even more to lose than Iran or Lebanon if they play the nuke card. Bet 'em high and sleep in the street seems to be the USUKIS strategy at the moment, and I'm not clear on what anyone can do to encourage them to fold earlier rather than later.
I hate to say this, but since the three letter agencies are all in with the Biden regime it seems the best hope of survival is either stretching things out until Trump takes office- which is a flex point for an off ramp; or a Colonel's Coup in the US. Nothing like that is possible in Israel or UK, it all depends on the US changing course.
Posted by: Honzo | Feb 16 2024 18:04 utc | 19
I heard they are building a new concentration camp without roof in the Sinai peninsula 8 square miles to accommodate the 1.5 million persecuted and innocent Palestinians from Rafah.
Posted by: AI | Feb 16 2024 18:07 utc | 20
“The Zionists have no idea what will come at them ...”
I’ll add that 2006 will look like a picnic compared to the next full scale war.
The Zionist plan will again be defeated
Posted by: Observer | Feb 16 2024 18:15 utc | 21
**- Isn’t it humiliating and a sign of weakness that countries ruling over two billion Muslims are unable to deliver medicine to the people of Gaza?***
That was the zinger, piercing of the heart, reflective comment, that stood out for me by Hassan.
A simple, small humanitarian gesture… unfulfilled by any.
(Didn’t mention picking up arms, or boycotts, sanctions, threats… just one simple sincere gesture from one Muslim to aid another, or heck, let’s be real, one human to another)
Anyways, just reminded me of what I already felt anyways, shame.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 16 2024 18:20 utc | 22
Posted by: bevin | Feb 16 2024 18:00 utc | 18
Are you sure? Warships were very important at that time and Churchill just converted his war ships to oil and needed a secure supply. The discovery of oil in the Persian Gulf was confirmed and Rockefeller had already made a vast fortune in oil in the late 1800s. I doubt the timing of the event was just a happy coincidence for the British Empire.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Feb 16 2024 18:25 utc | 24
Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 16 2024 17:03 utc | 12
Thanks for the link.
The essay is the best assessment of the 'USA/West's' geostrategic position I've read.
I highly recommend it to all at the bar.
Posted by: Siddhartha | Feb 16 2024 18:25 utc | 25
- The best way to defuse the current explosive situation in the Middle East is that the US fires say 20 to 40 cruise missiles into Israel. Only that will the israelis wake up from their (suicidal ??) war frenzy.
- Egypt is building a refugee camp close to the border between Egypt and Gaza, in Rafah ??
Posted by: WMG | Feb 16 2024 18:38 utc | 26
Jeez - how hard is it to remember history? It’s almost as if the constant re-narrativising is planned. To obscure it. So let me state the facts again.
‘ In 1838, an Arab revolt took place in Greater Syria, run by Muhammad Ali, the Ottoman viceroy of Egypt. British Foreign Secretary Palmerston offered the Sultan of Turkey British help in putting down the revolt, and in return, Britain was given the right to establish a vice-consulate in Jerusalem. Once this beachhead for the Empire was secured, the British decided to use a fledgling Zionist movement as their proxy, to increase their presence in the Holy Land. In 1840, Palmerston sent a letter to the British ambassador in Constantinople, instructing him to contact the Sultan: "There exists at the present time among the Jews dispersed over Europe, a strong notion that the time is approaching when their nation is to return to Palestine.... It would be of manifest importance to the Sultan to encourage the Jews to return and settle in Palestine because the wealth which they would bring with them would increase the resources of the Sultan's dominions; and the Jewish people, if returning under the sanction and protection and at the invitation of the Sultan, would be a check upon any future evil designs of Muhammad Ali or his successor. I have to instruct Your Excellency strongly to recommend the Turkish government to hold out every just encouragement to the Jews of Europe to return to Palestine." In 1845, Edward Ledwich Mitford, one of Palmerston's collaborators in the Foreign Service and a political supporter, published "An appeal in Behalf of the Israel Nation in Connection with the British Policy in the Levant." The piece called for the "final establishment of the Jewish nation in Palestine as a protected state under the guardianship of Great Britain." Mitford reasoned that such a state would "place the management of our steam communication entirely in our hands and would place us in a commanding position in the Levant from whence to check the process of encroachment, to overawe open enemies and, if necessary, to repel their advance."
Look at the DATES it is a long long long planned colonisation.
Do I need to also post what happened a century ago? How the above led to the Balfour Declaration which was opposed by many of Britains elites and Jews!
Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 16 2024 18:48 utc | 27
I think the US strategy is one of "eat my cake and have it too". The Abraham accords are a clear signal that the US is (trying ??) to "pacify" the Middle East and that enables the US to start their "Pivot to Asia" (think: China). But on the other hand the US wants to keep as much bases in the Middle East as possible (think: PETRODOLLAR). It's going to be an interesting to see how the US is going to solve that problem. One way to do that is to increase the defense budget (currently at some $ 820 billion) even more.
Posted by: WMG | Feb 16 2024 18:49 utc | 28
Re snake | Feb 16 2024 16:47 utc | 8
Regardless of when the desire to control oil reserves and the knowledge of where the most easily extractable reserves began, it is certain that the geopolitics of the 20th and, thus far, the 21st Centuries have been heavily influenced by such. The fight over Syria having begun, in no small part, over a planned nat gas pipeline from Qatar to Turkey is but one recent example.
Yet control of hydrocarbons is not the whole story. The US neocon desire for full spectrum dominance of the world, the Zionist goal of subjugation of all peoples to their “superior” race, and the Jewish control of Western finance and of Western political actors underlie all of our increasingly chaotic world and truly constitute an existential threat to all of humanity.
Posted by: Ciaran | Feb 16 2024 18:55 utc | 29
Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 16 2024 18:48 utc | 27
Why stop at 150 years the conquest of Jerusalem goes back a thousand years.
There was no Israel until there was oil.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Feb 16 2024 19:00 utc | 31
In 1838, an Arab revolt took place in Greater Syria, run by Muhammad Ali, the Ottoman viceroy of Egypt.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 16 2024 18:48 utc | 27
No, it wasn't an Arab revolt. Muhammad Ali was an Albanian adventurer, installed yes by the British in Egypt in 1805, following Napoleon's expedition. He was a sort of latter-day Mamluk. He went for independence and expansionism in the 1830s, and lost out. Nothing to do with Arab nationalism.
Posted by: laguerre | Feb 16 2024 19:15 utc | 32
The US bible belt believes these wars are Good News, "Jesus is Coming".
They also believe the Devil will bring forth an antichrist - a fake Jesus.
If the Devil has that power to deceive, a fake Jesus, he would have the power
to create a fake Israel.
They can see what a Beast fake Israel is, but nothing will ever open their eyes. Nothing.
Posted by: librul | Feb 16 2024 16:29 utc | 3
————————————————————————-
The US Bible Belt is the product of Billy Graham who was an Israeli funded pastor with the objective of using the Bible to “zionize” the largely undereducated American pseudo Christians. Billy did a superb job for Zionism and the state of Israel. Following Billy, other pseudo-Christian pastors took davantage of the opportunity and started churches like pigs at the trough. The results : Israel can rely on uneducated American “Christians” to support its murderous agenda because they believe it will bring the Rapture.
As long as Evangelicals maintain their beliefs, Israel will have a free hand and Americans will die for the Pharisees . Evangelicals are so ignorant that they believe so-called Jews the offspring of ancient Hebrews. Thus evangelicals reject Christ and cannot be considered Christian.
Posted by: Liberator | Feb 16 2024 19:16 utc | 33
Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 16 2024 18:48 utc | 27
Do I need to also post what happened a century ago? How the above led to the Balfour Declaration which was opposed by many of Britains elites and Jews!
Please do! Your post @ 27 is quite interesting. I am curious about Zionist involvement in getting the USA into WW1. I have read about deals made between powerful Zionists and their British counterparts regarding ensuring US involvement in WW1 for land in Palestine.
Posted by: lex talionis | Feb 16 2024 19:36 utc | 34
Satellite photos show Egypt building Gaza wall as Israel’s Rafah push looms
Despite its opposition to displacement of Palestinians, Cairo appears to be preparing for a scenario forced by Israel.
Egypt is building a fortified buffer zone near its border with the Gaza Strip as fears mount of an imminent Israeli ground invasion of the southern city of Rafah, which could displace hundreds of thousands of Palestinians across the frontier, according to satellite images and media reports.
Footage from the site in the Sinai desert and satellite photos show that an area that could offer basic shelter to tens of thousands of Palestinians is being constructed with concrete walls being set up on the Egyptian side of the Rafah crossing, the only non-Israeli-controlled crossing to and from Gaza.
Egypt's 'wall' is to lock-in Palestinians to another concentration camp - the military junta in Egypt is no fan of Hamas which they perceive (with the Saudis and Emiratis) to be a blood brother of the Muslim Brotherhood, their arch political enemy.
Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 16 2024 19:41 utc | 35
Liberator 33
Keep in mind that Mormons, too, hold beliefs that elevate Israel to a very special status. You may have noticed Mitt Romney the other day rambling on about the Ukraine and Israel funding bill in the Senate. Not just profiteering with him - but also religious beliefs inter-twined with fervent support. I don't really understand it - and some is explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_Mormonism . Yes, it's wiki --- but does anyone know of a better source? Mormons hold a lot of power in agencies like the CIA.
Posted by: castilleja | Feb 16 2024 19:44 utc | 36
Turk
Yes I am sure. Iraq and, inter alia, Burma, not to mention Mexico and the USA and Iran were all regular oil suppliers to the UK. The UK controlled the Gulf and the Red Sea, Palestine made not the slightest difference, aside from the fact that it made Britain unpopular amongst the Arabs, to the oil supply of either the Royal Navy or the largest merchant marine in the world, which was also slowly convrtting from coal to oil.
"....Without it iZrael could not raise the blood thirst of their adherents to a level that would enable and permit Genocide...." librul | Feb 16 2024 16:34 utc | 6
Your theory coincides well with hasbara: Israel does not need any excuse to increase the 'blood lust' of its public, which has been a constant since the 1920s.
Zionism is laced with exterminism- false flags are not needed.
As to October 6th it was a crushing defeat for Israeli security strategies and has implications which may very well prove terminal, after more than a century of impunity, to Zionism in its current forms.
No doubt you sincerely believe your theory, nor are you alone. But you are very likely to be wrong: Israel's government makes mistakes but rarely on the scale that Hamas exposed in their sudden attack.
Posted by: bevin | Feb 16 2024 19:49 utc | 37
The Zionist regime is like a rabid animal. Needs to be put out of its misery.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Feb 16 2024 19:51 utc | 38
I’ll add that 2006 will look like a picnic compared to the next full scale war.
The Zionist plan will again be defeated
Posted by: Observer | Feb 16 2024 18:15 utc | 21
-------------
Huh, even if they managed to fluke their way to "victory" and occupied parts of Lebanon.
It'll be a bloody, costly & demoralising mess like the last time. You'd think they'd remember that at least.
Posted by: Urban Fox | Feb 16 2024 19:54 utc | 39
lex talionis | Feb 16 2024 19:36 utc | 34
Lysias posted the title of an excellent and accessible account of the subjects surrounding Balfour recently.
The name of the book is Legacy of Empire, by Gardner Thompson. It is available through Apple Books for about $10 (US) and lots of second hand stores.
DunGroanin is, in my opinion, quite wrong in thinking that the Declaration was the consummation of a plan subscribed to by any substantial portion of ruling class opinion.
Weizmann, Lloyd George, Balfour and a galaxy of lesser idiots were behind the folly. Zionists then had almost no influence in the United States, although Wilson never saw a white supremacist idea that he didn't fall in love with.
The main player-the only one really interested in the question-was Weizmann, as close to being the sole architect of the Zionist state as anyone.
Posted by: bevin | Feb 16 2024 20:00 utc | 40
petergrfstrm | Feb 16 2024 17:47 utc | 17
You might add "and what global corporations" were involved.
The answer to both questions is 'none of any importance.'
The foundation of Israel had almost nothing to with oil and gas. The crucial decisions were taken more than a century ago, there was some minor interest in using Palestine, via rail, as a 'backdoor' to Iraq's oil production.
Posted by: bevin | Feb 16 2024 18:00 utc | 18
A century ago is 1924. In 1910 Churchill then , Secretary of the Admiralty, switched the power of the dreadnoughts from coal to oil .
In 1914 one of the main reasons for the outbreak of WW1 was that Germany wanted build a Berlin to Baghdad railway to principally transport oil. This decision provoked the UK as they were pillaging the Iraqui fields.
The City, US/UK needed a base in the Middle East to keep their finger close to the oil region so the Israelis are, in fact, a glorified proxy army fighting for the West.
The West sure makes it look like the Israel is calling the shots in this genocide so they can duck accountability.
Since even before 1948 the West , the Anglo/Zionists, were planning to use Israel as a proxy in the area to aid in controlling the ME, controlling the oil and gas reserves.
what oil resources were known in 1865 in that area?
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Feb 16 2024 17:47 utc | 17
19th century geology journals established the presence of tar, bitumen etc. in various regions of West Asia. The Ottomans were well aware of many of the uses. Existence of oil was mentioned in Kirkuk, Mosul, Baghdad. Western colonial powers (France, Germany) made official secret missions to Ottoman areas in the 1870s often with “archaeologists” as the cover. Baron Von Oppenheim (of the banking family) was involved. He would later stir up much trouble.
Detailed reports on prospective oil deposits in Mosul and Baghdad were available by 1894, before the first Zionist conference was held. The Ottoman Empire themselves started exploration projects in what is now Iraq and Syria with good results.
The first oil was discovered in West Asia at the turn of the 20th century. (It’s pretty much what WWI was about imho, Germany, France, UK and Italy slugging it out for oil concessions from the Ottoman Empire and of course the other colonies.)
Chaim Weizmann of course would be well aware of this and no doubt this influenced the choice for Palestine. By the time of the Balfour Declaration the oil riches were quite well established. I don’t doubt versions of the Oded Yinon Plan were around for decades before.
More broadly, in the second half of the 19th century the potential of oil was well established within the US.
Posted by: pq | Feb 16 2024 20:16 utc | 42
By 1865, there were hundreds of functioning oil wells around Baku in Russian-ruled Azerbaijan.
Posted by: Lysias | Feb 16 2024 20:25 utc | 43
Mormons hold a lot of power in agencies like the CIA.
Posted by: castilleja | Feb 16 2024 19:44 utc
Can you elaborate or provide significant references? I detest religious deference and the common beliefs attributed to various sects just another idpol headfake but you mention something I would like to better understand thank you.
Posted by: Not Ewe | Feb 16 2024 20:25 utc | 44
Posted by: pq | Feb 16 2024 20:16 utc | 42
There has been a ton of research on oil discovery throughout West Asia in the 19th century. Many of the original documents are in Turkey. The detailed stuff is in academic publications, harder to find through general search engines. Crude petroleum was called "Neft" by Turks, or naptha.
Sultan Abdulhamid II took a series of measures from 1887 to 1900 to try and prevent looting of Turkish oil fields by Western companies.
Posted by: pq | Feb 16 2024 20:30 utc | 45
Posted by: pq | Feb 16 2024 20:16 utc | 42
An analogy can found in the development of the Euro. Mundell developed the theory long before it was implemented, the flaw was factor mobility, i.e. moving a village from Romania to Poland because a factory opened up. However, when Dulles, et.al, needed an economic theory to justify a military alliance against the USSR, the Euro bastard was born.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Feb 16 2024 20:30 utc | 46
Posted by: bevin | Feb 16 2024 18:00 utc | 18
"Are you sure? Warships were very important at that time and Churchill just converted his war ships to oil and needed a secure supply. The discovery of oil in the Persian Gulf was confirmed and Rockefeller had already made a vast fortune in oil in the late 1800s. I doubt the timing of the event was just a happy coincidence for the British Empire.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Feb 16 2024 18:25 utc | 24"
I'm with Turk on this one.
Moslem Shia hezbollah abhore killing civilians especially women and children. It is part of their creed as they have been persecuted and massacred by the Sunnis for centuries. Contrary to jews who still cultivate bloody and blind desires for revenge, the Shias seek justice and dialog.
Now, that the hezbollah is confronted to a ruthless and hateful enemy they have to respond to stop the aggression. It is a dilemma that they are facing. They could destroy tel aviv easily but they prefer not to esclate to savagery
Israelis fed with hateful propaganda and fearing for thief existence are terrified and only calling for blood.
Posted by: Virgile | Feb 16 2024 20:38 utc | 48
DunGroanin @ 27:
There was a lot of unrest in the eastern Mediterranean area in the mid-1800s and much of this was due to spats between landlords (many of them Druze) and their tenants (mostly Christian, I believe). I am not sure of the outcome of these disputes but in the 1850s-60s, many people left the Levant to settle in North and South America.
A considerable proportion of white people in various Central and South America have Christian Arab ancestry and they can trace their family history in the Americas back to the mid-1800s. Much the same can be said for parts of the US, especially in the states of Michigan and New York.
Parts of the Levant ended up so short of people that the Ottomans settled these areas with refugees from the Russian conquest of the Caucasus during the same period.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Feb 16 2024 20:39 utc | 49
@ Bevin. Give it a rest fella.
“DunGroanin is, in my opinion, quite wrong in thinking that the Declaration was the consummation of a plan subscribed to by any substantial portion of ruling class opinion”
Substantial!!????
What I wrote and you subconsciously misread
“was OPPOSED by many of Britains elites and Jews!”
For that I will now post a substantive piece. Which will probably get another reply from you.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 16 2024 20:42 utc | 50
Historical causation doesn't work like that. Herodotus knew of 'rock oil' (petros elaion, petr-oleum) on fire bubbling from the ground in Arabia. He did not urge Athens to seize it. But joking aside, only under regimes of industrialisation, relentless drives for efficiencies and zero-sum competition does the exploitation of more productive sources of energy and the development of fossil fuels be understood. But we cannot put the cart before the horse: the tipping point at which oil became a determinant in foreign policies can only have been reached once civilian and military infrastructures had been restructured around its use. The central element there was the internal combustion engine. The dependency this created, and the corresponding rise of the importance of the Arab world, was thus, ultimately, a completely 20th century phenomenon. While a zionist state might retrospectively have looked helpful in asserting resource control in the region, it was, I'd imagine, a consequence rather than a cause for the creation of Israel. If it was a cause at all it was one realised after WW2, by which point the entire world's energy had long been organised around oil.
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 16 2024 20:42 utc | 51
lex talionis | Feb 16 2024 19:36 utc | 34
"Lysias posted the title of an excellent and accessible account of the subjects surrounding Balfour recently.
The name of the book is Legacy of Empire, by Gardner Thompson. It is available through Apple Books for about $10 (US) and lots of second hand stores.
DunGroanin is, in my opinion, quite wrong in thinking that the Declaration was the consummation of a plan subscribed to by any substantial portion of ruling class opinion.
Weizmann, Lloyd George, Balfour and a galaxy of lesser idiots were behind the folly. Zionists then had almost no influence in the United States, although Wilson never saw a white supremacist idea that he didn't fall in love with.
The main player-the only one really interested in the question-was Weizmann, as close to being the sole architect of the Zionist state as anyone."
Posted by: bevin | Feb 16 2024 20:00 utc | 40
I'm with bevin on this one.
Churchill was also an important contributor to the Declaration.
Churchills father, Lord Randolph, died in 1895 owing Nathan Rothschild 66,000 pounds (equivalent to $2.4MM in today's dollars) . Rothschild forgave the debt but called in a favour in 1917.
[to librul:] But you are very likely to be wrong: Israel's government makes mistakes but rarely on the scale that Hamas exposed in their sudden attack.
Posted by: bevin | Feb 16 2024 19:49 utc | 37
Believe that you need to rephrase that. As it stands it is an argument *in support* of my stance - Intentional Security Failure.
Multiple failures over a long period of time all coming together at one critical moment to produce a pretext for the final solution of ethnic cleansing
and the prolonging of a failing Netanyahu regime that was soon to be kicked out or jailed or both.
They obtained Hamas' detailed plans for Oct 7th a year ago- a monumental success.
Created a prison wall with multilayered security monitoring - human and electronic - success
Had human intel - spooks embedded in Hamas and the Gaza civilian population - success (and also likely the source that absconded with Hamas detailed Oct 7th plans)
Real-time monitoring of Hamas' hand-held radio network.
Had large number of IDF troops surrounding Gaza
(there is more, but that should make the point)
They recognized that Hamas written plan for Oct 7th could not succeed under the above conditions.
They had to "decide" to stop monitoring Hamas' hand-held radio network.
They had to ignore the alerts being sounded by border watchers.
They had to give a thumbs-down to written reports by intelligence officers
warning of an imminent Oct 7th (this happened!).
They had to ignore that Hamas had been trying to lull them into complacency (this was in writing in the Hamas Oct 7th plans).
They had to remove the vast majority of the IDF troops surrounding Gaza just in time for Oct 7th
Once the jail break was under way support troops had to be delayed for hours. (They refuse to explain
why this happened, stating that they will "investigate" only after Hamas is defeated.)
They had to implement the Hannibal Directive in order to achieve maximum civilian casualties.
The confluence of too many huge failures and too many horrible decisions
to be credible.
(IDF - Intentional Defense Failure)
Posted by: librul | Feb 16 2024 20:49 utc | 53
Posted by: canuck | Feb 16 2024 20:08 utc | 41
I'm unsure what point you are making. The decision by Fisher, the real expert, and Churchill, First Lord of the Admiralty, to convert the Navy to oil was taken more than a century ago, of course. So were the decisions regarding the Zionist project in Palestine.
The two decisions were not unrelated, few things in history are, but there was no causal link between them. They were decisions of very different kinds separated by many years and a War. The documentation on that point is very clear.
The key British/Indian link to Iraq was through Basra. The contest between Germany using the Ottoman proxy and Britain over Iraq continued until 1941 when Rashid Ali's pro German coup was suppressed. It was one of my late father's first battles.
There is something amounting to a mania among commenters searching for simple answers to complex questions: in your case the answer is always The City. In others it is Gas and Oil. Some favour the Royal Family (King Chuck!) And then there are the Jews, the Illuminati, the Communists, the Woke, the Anglos, the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, White men, Catholics, the WEF, WHO... and of course lizards.
Someone should write a song about it.
Posted by: bevin | Feb 16 2024 20:51 utc | 54
Trubnd1 #22,
Not true. Jordan has been airdropping aid into Gaza, bypassing Israel blockaid. Netherlands have also been involved in airdrops of aid.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/video/op-ed-video-activists-airdrop-aid-gaza-amidst-severe-blockades
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240212-jordanian-king-joins-mission-to-airdrop-aid-to-gaza/
Posted by: willow | Feb 16 2024 20:52 utc | 55
"By 1865, there were hundreds of functioning oil wells around Baku in Russian-ruled Azerbaijan."
Posted by: Lysias | Feb 16 2024 20:25 utc | 43
China used natural gas as early as the 4th century AD. They transported it through bamboo tubes.
I should think, in the developing comments thread regarding the role of a Jewish state in Palestine in serving British imperial geopolitical interest, that many interests (territorial, economic, religious and good old individual greed) were converging together, making the establishment of such a state as a tool to serve British interests in the Middle East and the Persian Gulf all but a done deal in the late 1800s/early 1900s.
It is significant that after Churchill made the decision to switch from coal to oil as the fuel source for British warships, the British were able to build bigger and faster warships than before. This would have encouraged even more British dependence on Persian oil, and British determination to secure Persia as a colony or sphere of influence away from Germany and Russia.
The influence of British Israelism - the belief that the Anglo-Saxons were descended from the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel and thus part of the Chosen People - was also an element behind Britain's favouring a Jewish state in Palestine. No doubt that, just as the Biblical Israel (made up of the Ten Lost Tribes) had been dominant over the Biblical Judah (the tribes of Judah and Benjamin), the British were convinced they could manipulate the strings behind a Jewish puppet state in Palestine and use it to control their territorial and economic interests in western Asia.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Feb 16 2024 20:55 utc | 57
I would add that one does not simply discover a new source of energy and then put it to use. The history of technology does not work like that except in the mind of 10 year olds. One needs to read Marx on the way productive forces produce contradictions that are not resolved by such imaginary rationalizations as 'looking for new sources of energy'. Social formations tend to keep doubling down on what they know until they can do so no longer (as, for example, the dependency of antiquity on slaves drawn from a cycle of conquests; despite the unsustainability of limitless conquest exploitable human labour was still needed, so the Empire turned to the internal population, coloni became serfs, etc, etc); then the social formation transforms. The idea that a bunch of illuminati visionaries start redrawing the world's map because they can see 'the potential' is part of bourgeois mythology about the heroic individual who forges his own destiny by innovation and business acumen. History is driven by the resolution of contradictions, or, as Uncle Karl put it: "man makes his own history, but not as he would choose."
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 16 2024 20:56 utc | 58
Posted by: bevin | Feb 16 2024 20:51 utc | 54
No, oil, or rather controlling the commodity in the ME was the major reason for Balfour declaration, that is fairly evident.
But, ok, I'll break your bubble.
"Lawrence, also known as Lawrence of Arabia, was aware of the strategic importance of the Middle East and its vast oil reserves. He was a British intelligence officer during World War I and was sent to the region to assess the situation and gather information"
Lawrence was spying (posing as an archeologist, which he was)in the ME before WW1 with the oil fields in mind then, where did he end up helping to conquer with Allenby..let me think, oh yeah, Israel and Syria.
bevin are way off track in this issue.
The ICJ pulls a major kangaroo court move. Still does not order Israel to halt military ops.
https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20240216-pre-01-00-en.pdf
“The Court notes that the most recent developments in the Gaza Strip, and in
Rafah in particular, ‘would exponentially increase what is already a humanitarian
nightmare with untold regional consequences’, as stated by the United Nations
Secretary-General (Remarks to the General Assembly on priorities for 2024 (7 Feb.
2024)).
This perilous situation demands immediate and effective implementation of the
provisional measures indicated by the Court in its Order of 26 January 2024, which are
applicable throughout the Gaza Strip, including in Rafah, and does not demand the
indication of additional provisional measures.
The Court emphasizes that the State of Israel remains bound to fully comply with
its obligations under the Genocide Convention and with the said Order, including by
ensuring the safety and security of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.”
Posted by: pq | Feb 16 2024 21:06 utc | 60
RE: “Now, that the hezbollah is confronted to a ruthless and hateful enemy they have to respond to stop the aggression. ***It is a dilemma that they are facing. They could destroy tel aviv easily but they prefer not to esclate to savagery***
Israelis fed with hateful propaganda and fearing for thief existence are terrified and only calling for blood.”
Posted by: Virgile | Feb 16 2024 20:38 utc | 48
I disagree. It is not a “dilemma” for Hezbollah.
Hassan couldn’t have been clearer.
A red line was crossed. It will no longer be “military equipment, spy devices, other “soldiers”…
You (Israel) harmed “civilians and took blood”
Blood for blood coming. Rules finished.
No dilemma. Hands washed.
Unlike Russia, Hezbollah isn’t interested in giving “morality lesson education” to Israel or the West.
Terrorism will be met with terrorism.
Hezbollah is not interested in “morality”.
Hezbollah is interested in Justice.
And a Just-Equal response.
That’s been the problem with the West…
They rely on others not stooping to their evil, degenerate & terror/murder tactics.
They’ve met their match in the ME. Not just with Hezbollah.
I sense a Western oil refinery about to have an “explosion”like Iran’s did, it’s in the tea leaves.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 16 2024 21:09 utc | 61
Trubnd1 #22,
"Not true. Jordan has been airdropping aid into Gaza, bypassing Israel blockaid. Netherlands have also been involved in airdrops of aid.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/video/op-ed-video-activists-airdrop-aid-gaza-amidst-severe-blockades
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240212-jordanian-king-joins-mission-to-airdrop-aid-to-gaza/"
Posted by: willow | Feb 16 2024 20:52 utc | 55
Best news I have heard today
I can't remember who it was , a law prof from Queen Mary U on Al Jazeera said Israel is preparing this defense
1. Creating some paperwork to show it is investigating low ranking officers for minor war crimes. It pulled this one before in a previous war (2014) when after 2,251 Palestinians were killed, it penalized two soldiers for stealing $200.
2. Reducing the amount of public genocidal statements by top leadership.
And a few other similarly fake things.
Posted by: pq | Feb 16 2024 21:11 utc | 63
The US bible belt believes these wars are Good News, "Jesus is Coming".
They also believe the Devil will bring forth an antichrist - a fake Jesus.
If the Devil has that power to deceive, a fake Jesus, he would have the power
to create a fake Israel.
They can see what a Beast fake Israel is, but nothing will ever open their eyes. Nothing.
Posted by: librul | Feb 16 2024 16:29 utc | 3
As though they are driving US foreign policy... You're true to your handle lib.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 16 2024 21:16 utc | 64
Excellent post. Israel’s expanding war in West Asia (aka Middle East) is basically an expansion of the ongoing US proxy war vs Russia taking place in Ukraine. In addition to ongoing wars he inherited, the Biden Administration has become directly involved in conflicts in Ukraine, Gaza, Lebanon, Yemen/Red Sea, Iraq and potentially Iran. The Pentagon (& UK) is actively assisting Israel in this campaign, which is being funded by American taxpayers. The Biden Administration has given Israel a green light to attack the 1 million + Palestinian civilians, who have been displaced to Rafah. Is anyone surprised that Bibi Netanyahu wants a major escalation north into Lebanon. Netanyahu’s calculus may well be that by invading Lebanon, he will force the US to commit Naval forces and troops to become directly involved in this theater.
Notes
1) No, Biden is not Being Played by Netanyahu. U.S. Imperialist Policy Is the Systematic Problem- We should never forget the order of things, that the Zionist regime is an attack dog for U.S. imperialism. By Finian Cunningham Strategic Culture Foundation Dec 30, 2023; https://strategic-culture.su/news/2023/12/30/no-biden-not-being-played-by-netanyahu-us-imperialist-policy-systematic-problem/
2. Biden may see himself needing some ‘grand victory’, as much as does Netanyahu By Alastair Crooke. Strategic Culture Foundation Feb 12, 2024; https://strategic-culture.su/news/2024/02/12/the-worlds-gyre/
3. Biden WEAKLY ADMITS He Won't Do ANYTHING To Stop Civilian Deaths Despite BLANK CHECK To IDF: Rising. The Hill Feb 12, 2024; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw7-lKfSnAY
Liberator 33
Keep in mind that Mormons, too, hold beliefs that elevate Israel to a very special status. You may have noticed Mitt Romney the other day rambling on about the Ukraine and Israel funding bill in the Senate. Not just profiteering with him - but also religious beliefs inter-twined with fervent support. I don't really understand it - and some is explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_Mormonism . Yes, it's wiki --- but does anyone know of a better source? Mormons hold a lot of power in agencies like the CIA.
Posted by: castilleja | Feb 16 2024 19:44 utc | 36
If all the Christians of all variety in the US disappeared tomorrow, the ruling class would still have the same foreign policy. There is no democracy in the US and no way for the population to check the ruling class when it wants something...at this point.
Plus, there are plenty of Christians of all varieties opposed to the ruling class foreign policy. Painting all of them with the same brush, is the same monolithic thinking behind the racism of the zionnuts.
There are very clear, material reasons for this foreign policy. Let's focus on those and stop villifying entire populations of wage slaves for the crimes of their Zionazis masters.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 16 2024 21:26 utc | 66
China used natural gas as early as the 4th century AD. They transported it through bamboo tubes.
Sorry, but amateur historians do more damage with their simple causation than millennials without a historical bone in their bodies. Please read Max Weber, Karl Marx and Gilbert Simondon on the relationship between technology and economy before tossing random, supposedly self-explanatory, factoids into the ether.
Bevin is making a subtle but ultimately correct point.
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 16 2024 21:27 utc | 67
@ Posted by: lex talionis | Feb 16 2024 19:36 utc | 34
Thanks lex for asking. I’ll post the following, abridged, well researched and now old article. Don’t see that level of journalism now.
https://www.newstatesman.com/world/middle-east/2017/11/100-years-balfour-declaration-and-great-war
There was another consideration behind the Declaration, testimony to London’s belief in the ubiquitous influence of international Jewry. British endorsement of Zionism was expected to strengthen support for the war in both Russia and America where, it was hoped, pro-Zionist Jews could help swing political and public opinion. After the overthrow of the Tsar in February 1917 Russia’s provisional government was struggling to keep its war-weary country fighting; in the United States, which had entered the conflict in April, war mobilisation had been disappointingly slow.
Balfour and Lloyd George would have been happy with an unvarnished endorsement of Zionism. The text that the foreign secretary agreed in August was largely written by Weizmann and his colleagues:
“His Majesty’s Government accept the principle that Palestine should be reconstituted as the national home of the Jewish people and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object and will be ready to consider any suggestions on the subject which the Zionist Organisation may desire to lay before them.”
In due course the blunt phrase about Palestine being “reconstituted as the national home of the Jewish people” was toned down into “the establishment of a home for the Jewish people in Palestine” – a more ambiguous formulation which sidestepped for the moment the idea of a Jewish state. But when this draft finally came before the war cabinet for discussion on 4 October, it ran into fierce opposition from two very different angles.
Edwin Montagu, newly appointed as secretary of state for India, was only the third practising Jew to hold cabinet office. Whereas his cousin, Herbert Samuel (who in 1920 would become the first high commissioner of Palestine) was a keen supporter of Zionism, Montagu was an “assimilationist” – one who believed that being Jewish was a matter of religion not ethnicity. His position was summed up in the cabinet minutes:
Mr Montagu urged strong objections to any declaration in which it was stated that Palestine was the “national home” of the Jewish people. He regarded the Jews as a religious community and himself as a Jewish Englishman … How would he negotiate with the peoples of India on behalf of His Majesty’s Government if the world had just been told that His Majesty’s Government regarded his national home as being in Turkish territory?
Montagu considered the proposed Declaration a blatantly anti-Semitic document and claimed that “most English-born Jews were opposed to Zionism”, which he said was being pushed mainly by “foreign-born Jews” such as Weizmann, who was born in what is now Belarus.
The other critic of the proposed Declaration was Lord Curzon, a former viceroy of India, who therefore viewed Palestine within the geopolitics of Asia. A grandee who traced his lineage back to the Norman Conquest, Curzon loftily informed colleagues that the Promised Land was not exactly flowing with milk and honey, but nor was it an empty, uninhabited space. According to the cabinet minutes, “Lord Curzon urged strong objections upon practical grounds. He stated, from his recollection of Palestine, that the country was, for the most part, barren and desolate … a less propitious seat for the future Jewish race could not be imagined.” And, he asked, “how was it proposed to get rid of the existing majority of Mussulman [Muslim] inhabitants and to introduce the Jews in their place?”
Between them, Curzon and Montagu had temporarily slowed the Zionist bandwagon. Lord Milner, another member of the war cabinet, hastily added two conditions to the proposed draft, in order to address the two men’s respective concerns. The vague phrase about the rights of the “existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine” hints at how little the government knew or cared about those who constituted roughly 90 per cent of the population of what they, too, regarded as their homeland.
After trying out the new version on a few eminent Jews, both of Zionist and accommodationist persuasions, and also securing a firm endorsement from America’s President Woodrow Wilson, Lloyd George and Balfour took the issue back to the war cabinet on 31 October. By now the strident Montagu had left for India, and on this occasion Balfour, who could often be moody and detached, led from the front, brushing aside the objections that had been raised and reasserting the propaganda imperative. According to the cabinet minutes, he stated firmly: “The vast majority of Jews in Russia and America, as, indeed, all over the world, now appeared to be favourable to Zionism. If we could make a declaration favourable to such an ideal, we should be able to carry on extremely useful propaganda both in Russia and America.”
This was standard cabinet tactics: a strong lead from a minister supported by the PM, daring his colleagues to argue back. And this time Curzon did not, though he did make another telling comment. He “attached great importance to the necessity of retaining the Christian and Moslem Holy Places in Jerusalem and Bethlehem”. If this were done, Curzon added, he “did not see how the Jewish people could have a political capital in Palestine”.
No one, however, paid much attention. Lloyd George and Balfour had secured the endorsement of Zionism they wanted, but in the form of a typical cabinet compromise, characterised by verbal dexterity rather than intellectual clarity. The two conditions had bought off the two main critics. That was all that seemed to matter, even though the reference to the “rights of the existing non-Jewish communities” stood in potential conflict with the first two clauses about the British supporting and using their “best endeavours” for the “establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people”.
Read the whole original. It’s based on Caninet minutes
I might post the time line of a Lot happening in a few days after nothing happening for years. If you want.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 16 2024 21:29 utc | 68
The Zionists have no idea what will come at them ...
What exactly does Hezbollah have that would be so devastating? Serious question since I have no idea.
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 16 2024 21:29 utc | 69
Yet control of hydrocarbons is not the whole story. The US neocon desire for full spectrum dominance of the world, the Zionist goal of subjugation of all peoples to their “superior” race, and the Jewish control of Western finance and of Western political actors underlie all of our increasingly chaotic world and truly constitute an existential threat to all of humanity.
Posted by: Ciaran | Feb 16 2024 18:55 utc | 29
================
IMO this nails it! At least for now, at least regarding the oil/gas interests.
Of note: The area of Greater Syria has always been strategically important---well before Herzl came along.
I am starting to wonder whether Herzl wasn't actually a "useful idiot" to British imperialist interests.
Posted by: Jane | Feb 16 2024 21:30 utc | 70
"Top UN court rejects South African request for urgent measures to safeguard Rafah"
Interpretation of Times of Israel.
After the seventh? hospital bombing, siege and massacre, "IDF uncovers meds with names of hostages in Gaza hospital raid".
Al Ahli, Indonesian, Al Shifa, Rantisi, Al Awda, Kamal Adwan and now Nasser.
130 journalists death toll. Abu Omar from Al Jazeera who had his leg amputated is in very bad shape and desperately needs to be evacuated.
I think the Hezbollah death toll of martyrs is about 210 but overall Lebanon is 250 approx.
In his speech Nasrallah mentioned the young fighter Ibrahim Ali Al-Dabaq who was badly wounded. Before dying he decided to donate his heart and kidneys. The heart is now in a 54 year old man.
Posted by: pq | Feb 16 2024 21:30 utc | 71
Nothing to do with Arab nationalism.
Posted by: laguerre | Feb 16 2024 19:15 utc | 32
============
Well, I have read that the refusal to meet this fellow's demands for conscripting men in Palestine was a seminal event in the development of Palestinian identity---based on geography---among different types of people then living in Palestine.
Posted by: Jane | Feb 16 2024 21:32 utc | 72
b: "The increase of hostility is getting to a point where there will no longer be the question "if" another war between Israel and Hizbullah will occur but only the question of "when"."
I always break a sweat when departs from his usual careful and measured language in connection with making definite predictions. Hizbullah must at this point be extremely well prepared and an attack on them will be like charging into a hornets' nest. The next crackdown on our lives in the Collective Waste will follow hot on the heels.
Posted by: Honzo | Feb 16 2024 18:04 utc | 19
"Britain no longer makes its own decisions, so while they could most sensibly abandon Israel, they aren't able to do so until the US does (except to the degree that wrecking their own propellor shafts represents defection from the cause)."
Perfectly apt summary in a graceful poker game analogy. The British Navy rejecting this rare opportunity to strut around with an aircraft carrier can only mean a very real chance it would have been hit or sunk by "The Houthis" in return for the Russian landing ship.
Posted by: Leser | Feb 16 2024 21:34 utc | 73
Chaim Weizmann of course would be well aware of this and no doubt this influenced the choice for Palestine. . . .
More broadly, in the second half of the 19th century the potential of oil was well established within the US.
Posted by: pq | Feb 16 2024 20:16 utc | 42
======
This makes sense. Weizman was a biochemist.
Per Wiki:
"As a biochemist, Weizmann is considered to be the 'father' of industrial fermentation. He developed the acetone–butanol–ethanol fermentation process, which produces acetone, n-butanol and ethanol through bacterial fermentation. His acetone production method was of great importance in the manufacture of cordite explosive propellants for the British war industry during World War I. "
His important inventions gave him the ear of Balfour and other cabinet members. Balfour was already a Christian Zionist nut.
However, it is also true that the Germans were busy constructing their Berlin-Baghdad railway, which the British wanted to stop. German geographers and engineers probably knew about the potential of oil and gas deposits throughout the area.
Posted by: Jane | Feb 16 2024 21:41 utc | 74
Of course the British Lords created Israel for God, to suggest otherwise implies they are no better than the savage Barbary Pirates.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Feb 16 2024 21:45 utc | 75
Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 16 2024 21:29 utc | 68
Thank you!
I remembered where I heard the stuff about Zionist having a deal with the British to get the USA into WW1. Benjamin Freedmann. It's a speech he gave in 1961 I heard and read about.
You and the others where can educate me on him. I don't know what his story is, but I find it rather interesting.
Benjamin Freedman Speaks on Zionism
Benjamin Freedman's 1961 Speech at the Willard Hotel
Posted by: lex talionis | Feb 16 2024 21:47 utc | 76
"I am starting to wonder whether Herzl wasn't actually a "useful idiot" to British imperialist interests."
Posted by: Jane | Feb 16 2024 21:30 utc | 70
That has always been my suspicion.
"China used natural gas as early as the 4th century AD. They transported it through bamboo tubes."
Sorry, but amateur historians do more damage with their simple causation than millennials without a historical bone in their bodies. Please read Max Weber, Karl Marx and Gilbert Simondon on the relationship between technology and economy before tossing random, supposedly self-explanatory, factoids into the ether.
Bevin is making a subtle but ultimately correct point."
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 16 2024 21:27 utc | 67
I don't understand your point.
Kindly please remember that I am but 'an amateur' idiot and you are a studied professor so write clearly so I can understand.
Thanks.
I'm confused by Nasrallah's speech.
The last strike wasn't the first time Israel killed civilians in Lebanon.
* A woman and her son killed, 1/12/2023
* Seven journalists killed, 7/12/2023
* Elderly woman killed, 21/12/2023
What was Nasrallah's statement on 11/11/2023?
the Lebanese resistance flies drones that reach Haifa and the Israeli depth daily.
...
Targeting civilians in Lebanon won’t be tolerated and will be harshly met.
Has it? I don't think so. Why would it be different now?.
What are those immense global pressures he mentions? This is a key statement. If Hezbollah was held back, has this changed somehow?
And until anyone acts, 1.5 million Palestinians have been pushed to the edge of the Abyss.
Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Feb 16 2024 21:50 utc | 79
Yet control of hydrocarbons is not the whole story. The US neocon desire for full spectrum dominance of the world, the Zionist goal of subjugation of all peoples to their “superior” race, and the Jewish control of Western finance and of Western political actors underlie all of our increasingly chaotic world and truly constitute an existential threat to all of humanity.
Posted by: Ciaran | Feb 16 2024 18:55 utc | 29
A post as astute as it is succinct. Thanks.
When george bush jr. asked his dad who are the neocons, Sr. said the jews - iirc.
This planet would be immensely better off, safer, happier, healthier, more prosperous, more peaceful, more free ... if judaism had been strangled in its crib.
Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Feb 16 2024 22:05 utc | 80
Posted by: canuck | Feb 16 2024 21:50 utc | 78
You go first. What significance do you draw from Chinese use of natural gas that is relevant here?
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 16 2024 22:11 utc | 81
Posted by: canuck | Feb 16 2024 21:50 utc | 78
I didn't say you were an idiot. Idiots are harmless. It's the simplistic and unreflective historical causation that concerns me, as I posted elsewhere above (#51, #58).
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 16 2024 22:14 utc | 82
And then there are the Jews, the Illuminati, the Communists, the Woke, the Anglos, the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, White men, Catholics, the WEF, WHO... and of course lizards.
Someone should write a song about it.Posted by: bevin | Feb 16 2024 20:51 utc | 54
In all these years I've never seen anyone here blame white men, catholics or lizards. "... and of course lizards". Who are you quoting? None of us. You're getting excited and pulling strange strawmen and tired slogans out of your imagination. But I also don't understand the hooting about wef or the jews. Do you think people shouldn't be allowed to discuss them? There's no one here who blames wef or jews for every single thing, like you're insinuating. Another odd attempt at censorship and browbeating.
We understand that there's a whole rotten stew going on, tangled into hundreds of organisations (three-letter organisations the EU, NATO, UN, WHO, all the blackrocks and other companies, etc), and the governments of dozens of countries. But you kill it by bringing the head (jews) into daylight.
If people have a lot to say about the wef, jews, the bizarre German "british" royalty, etc, right now, it's for two reasons: we're being driven to extinction, and mentioning some of those topics resulted in a ban before. Not to mention those topics remain censored in most places apart from here. About time things come out. And don't think a hundred years or more of repression will be talked through in a few months and then nicely forgotten.
For some reason, some people think that a few threads about jews or vaccines is enough, and they get tired and start to ridicule people for it. Save that judgment for when you're being herded like the Palestinians or put into lockdown 2.
Soros just bought a few hundred radio stations; some think we should hush all discussion, because they're tired and feel like soros should be left to his work, after all he's a jew and jews have already been mentioned enough. Hush.
Posted by: Michael A | Feb 16 2024 22:27 utc | 83
Am observation:
It seems the Israeli Zionist government wants to 'adjust' their northern borders with Lebanon. With fortune it will result with that border being in north Jerusalem, both east and west sectors of that city already spoken for, leaving south Jerusalem maybe for the Egyptians.
Only a one state solution is in order; restore original Palestine to the Palestinian peoples and those who they wish to live with. All else is folly. Terminate the Israeli project, exterminate Zionism, and respect actual Jews following Hebrew laws.
Posted by: Formerly T-Bear | Feb 16 2024 22:32 utc | 85
Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 16 2024 17:03 utc | 12
Thanks for sharing this astute analysis.
Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Feb 16 2024 22:37 utc | 86
No additional provisional measures from the ICJ against Israel regarding Rafah:
https://twitter.com/CIJ_ICJ/status/1758578734091620763/
Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Feb 16 2024 22:43 utc | 87
Posted by: Michael A | Feb 16 2024 22:27 utc | 83
Bevin is simply making a case for good history rather than populist causation. 'The Jews' presupposes a historical causation that borders on paranoia. There are vested interests and we need to be sophisticated in defining—and thereby resisting—them. Are there Jews with vested interests? Yes. Do Jews historically form self-help blocs based on shared ethno-religious beliefs? Yes. Do Jews have a monopoly of this behaviour? Well quite—no. The only struggle is the class struggle. The 'Jews' diverts us from this. If Soros identifies with anyone it's people like him, the billionaire class. does he rationalise this as a racial destiny? Perhaps, but if he does then he is also participating in a self-mystification as most bourgeoisie do. The identification of the bourgeoisie with the Jews was a coup for capitalism—let's not fall for it again.
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 16 2024 22:44 utc | 88
The two decisions were not unrelated, few things in history are, but there was no causal link between them. They were decisions of very different kinds separated by many years and a War. The documentation on that point is very clear.
The key British/Indian link to Iraq was through Basra. The contest between Germany using the Ottoman proxy and Britain over Iraq continued until 1941 when Rashid Ali's pro German coup was suppressed. It was one of my late father's first battles.
Posted by: bevin | Feb 16 2024 20:51 utc | 54
I'm not sure I follow your reasoning here. Fisher moved forward conversion to oil in 1911; Balfour advanced the creation of Israel in Palesting in 1917, both ideas had significant history before hand. However, the danger of inadequate oil supplies to the British Navy was brought into sharp relief by WWI, hence Balfour. How is that not a causal relationship? One can say that there is never any single cause to anything, but there are certainly precipitating causes which tip the balance from potential to manifestation.
And just to make something clear that might escape notice by some, when planting a colony, one does not do it just outside the enemy's capital. The placement of Israel in Palestine was ideal from a military/economic/strategic perspective, because placing it in Iraq, or between Iraq and Germany, was impossible.
Posted by: Honzo | Feb 16 2024 22:46 utc | 89
@ Posted by: pq | Feb 16 2024 20:30 utc | 45
'Crude petroleum was called "Neft" by Turks, or naptha' is not true. This term was not originated by Turks in 19th centuries and has its origin a few centuries back.
Posted by: Sentience | Feb 16 2024 22:48 utc | 90
Michael A @ 83
Hear Hear....
I am constantly amazed whenever I get browbeaten and ridiculed for stating too many obvious facts about the ****. I always mean the zionists in particular but just up thread, the Israeli poll that showed a majority of **** wanted Hizbullah attacked shows me that it's most of the **** that are completely fucked in the head!
Posted by: bisfugged | Feb 16 2024 22:50 utc | 91
@Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 16 2024 21:16 utc | 64
Was that a strawman argument, Ahenobarbus?
Posted by: librul | Feb 16 2024 22:53 utc | 92
W/r/t the “oil in Palestine”ahistorical nonsense: Russo-British-supported Zionist immigration into Palestine started in the 1880s, which is about the time the US first started developing its very crude form of “offshore” drilling, which consisted of rigs built upon land-locked systems of docks and piers extending into lakes and rivers. These were drilling systems that were merely overcoming water obstacles that happened to be located on already discovered land-based fields.
It wasn’t until 1947 (over a century after the Brits first floated the idea of Zionist emigration to the Turks!) that anything resembling what we understand today as “offshore drilling” even existed.
The oil fields in question are located well off the coast of Gaza and Lebanon. Nobody back in 1882–nor even in 1918–had the slightes clue those fields existed.
It wasn’t until 1999 that the fields were finally discovered and proven.
So enough with this nonsense about how Britain/The City wanted Palestine because…Oil! If they wanted Palestine for its resources back then, then they wanted it for its olives, goats, sheep, and—most importantly—its ports.
Also, the book suggested by Bevin, about Balfour, is available at Libgen, but you’ve gotta search for the title. The author’s surname appears to be misspelled.
Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Feb 16 2024 22:54 utc | 93
BTW any talk of why the British elite went along with the Balfour Declaration of 1917 only needs to understand that the whole sorry lot had been assimilated and infiltrated for centuries by intermarriage, extortion, blackmail and a host of other reasons why they couldn't refuse. This is what (((they))) do!
Posted by: bisfugged | Feb 16 2024 22:56 utc | 94
Patty @ 88
Lol...
Oh we're going to FALL for it alright. Can't you feel the fucking wave crashing over us right now?? These cockroaches are going to be the death of us all and you are going to sit there and studiously deny what's right in front of your face...good luck with that!
Posted by: bisfugged | Feb 16 2024 23:02 utc | 95
Perhaps Nasrallah is deliberately increasing the tensions without increase the amount of attacks ?
Posted by: WMG | Feb 16 2024 23:02 utc | 96
librul,
Something else that they had to do was to make sure that Hamas would attack when they wanted. So they provoked that attack by invading the Al Aqsa mosque on Oct. 2.
Posted by: Lysias | Feb 16 2024 23:06 utc | 97
The central element there was the internal combustion engine.
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 16 2024 20:42 utc | 51
Its likely a combination of both but strategic resource general revolve around military needs, and so I have thought the move from coal fired naval ships piston engines to turbines then oil fired turbines was the earliest move to oil as a strategic resource, though mechanized land logistics and formations were just beginning to make their appearance at this time.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Feb 16 2024 23:08 utc | 98
Posted by: canuck | Feb 16 2024 21:50 utc | 78
You go first. What significance do you draw from Chinese use of natural gas that is relevant here?
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 16 2024 22:11 utc | 81
Posters were talking about the history of hydrocarbons as a fuel and pegged it around 1850.
I pointed out the first use of hydrocarbons was in the 4th century AD in China.
That is the significance.
RE: Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Feb 16 2024 21:50 utc | 79
Yes. I do believe the calculation for Hezbollah has changed.
Unlike before, Hezbollah considers Israel an existential threat to all the region and resistance.
The continued existence of the Zionist entity means subjugation of the entire region.
This is obviously what this Gaza struggle now means.
It’s not about Gaza. It’s about Israel declaring themselves Master of the Region.
The U.S./UK are assisting & making their declaration as well.
Hezbollah is aware that this will likely lead to nuclear weapons being used by Israel, primarily against Lebanon and Iran, maybe even Syria.
When you listen to his speech, this is his resignation. That this sacrifice must be made to be free, to prevent subjugation regardless of Lebanon politics anymore.
Passes with civilians (terrorism) were given before to prevent unnecessary trouble. But no more.
It’s obvious to me, Hezbollah is as he has said, ready for war. It’s obvious he does not desire to see millions die, he may even be hopeful of a political end to the Zionist entity.
Nevertheless, looking at these sadist genocidal maniacs…
Who wouldn’t understand they will use nukes when they come under crossfire?
He sees the end already. And has changed and resolved to see it through to a just conclusion.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 16 2024 23:21 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
The Israelis failed to present a single slaughtered child or raped girl to the world; instead, the settlers who were killed were actually victims of Israeli army fire
Posted by: librul | Feb 16 2024 16:24 utc | 1