France Wants To Fight Russia In Ukraine
The little French rascal is leaning over his skis a bit:
Sending Western troops to Ukraine “cannot be ruled out," French President Emmanuel Macron said Monday after hosting a conference in Paris where European leaders discussed the prospect.There was “no agreement this evening to officially send troops onto the ground but we cannot exclude anything,” he told reporters.
...
“We will do anything we can to prevent Russia from winning this war,” Macron said. “And I say this with determination, but also with a collective humility that we need to have, in the light of the last two years."
After two years of following a losing U.S. strategy against Russia one would expect a little more humility than that.
None of Macron's colleagues agreed with him:
Germany, Britain and other European countries said on Tuesday they had no plans to send ground troops to Ukraine, after France hinted at the possibility, and the Kremlin warned that any such move would inevitably lead to conflict between Russia and Nato.French President Emmanuel Macron had said on Monday that Western allies should exclude no options in seeking to avert a Russian victory in Ukraine, though he stressed there was no consensus at this stage.
“Nothing should be excluded. We will do everything that we must so that Russia does not win,” Macron told reporters at a hastily convened gathering of European leaders in Paris to mull how to bolster support for Ukraine against Russia’s invasion.
...
However, Germany, Britain, Spain, Poland and the Czech Republic distanced themselves on Tuesday from any suggestion they might commit ground troops to the Ukraine war, now in its third year.“ … There will be no ground troops, no soldiers on Ukrainian soil sent there by European countries or Nato states,” German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said on the sidelines of an event.
The Russian government declared that any positioning of western troops in Ukraine would inevitably lead to a larger war:
A direct military conflict between NATO and Russia will be inevitable if Western troops are sent to Ukraine, Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters."In that case, it’s not going to be about probability, but inevitability - that's how we assess it," he said, when asked how the Kremlin assesses the probability of a direct conflict between NATO and Russia in the event that Western troops are sent to Ukraine.
Peskov also said NATO countries "should also assess" the consequences of such actions and be aware of them. They should "ask themselves whether this corresponds to their interests, and most importantly, to the interests of the citizens of their countries," Peskov said.
The U.S. will not allow for a NATO escalation against Russia. It is already distancing itself from the Ukraine war.
The Europeans are just, like always, late to recognize that they are going to be left to hold the tar baby.
Macron may just be peeved a bit. A month ago a Russian air strike killed a number of foreign 'mercenaries' in Ukraine:
Russia said on Wednesday its forces had carried out a precision strike a day earlier on a building housing "foreign fighters" in Ukraine's second city Kharkiv.The defence ministry said the fighters were mostly French mercenaries and the building was destroyed, with more than 60 people killed. It did not provide evidence, and Reuters could not verify the claims.
France has denied that it had sent 'mercenaries' to Ukraine:
France has denied Russia’s claim that there were French mercenaries in Ukraine after Russia’s Ministry of Defence said its troops had killed “foreign fighters” earlier this week.
...
“France has no mercenaries, neither in Ukraine nor elsewhere, unlike certain others,” it added.
However, seven month back France admitted that at least some 320 French fighters had gone to Ukraine.
There is also this curious phenomenon of high tech weapon specialists leaving their services to shortly thereafter turn up as humanitarian workers for this or that 'civil' agency in Ukraine:
France says Russia will have to answer for the deaths of two French nationals killed in a drone attack in the Kherson region of Ukraine as they performed humanitarian duties.Kherson regional Governor Oleksandr Prokudin wrote in a post on Telegram that the two French nationals were killed, and three other foreigners injured in the attack in Beryslav, a town just outside the southern city of Kherson, on February 1.
Prokudin did not say which humanitarian group the casualties worked for.
"Russian barbarity has targeted civilians in Ukraine," French Foreign Minister Stephane Sejourne said in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
"Russia will have to answer for its crimes," he added.
Just days later Stephane Sejourne said:
France's foreign minister on Tuesday sought to clarify comments made by President Emmanuel Macron that Paris could send troops to Ukraine for specific needs, but not to fight in the war against Russia."We must consider new actions to support Ukraine. These must respond to very specific needs, I am thinking in particular of mine clearance, cyberdefence, the production of weapons on site, on Ukrainian territory," Stephane Sejourne told lawmakers.
"Some of its actions could require a presence on Ukrainian territory, without crossing the threshold of fighting. Nothing should be ruled out. This was and still is the position today of the president of the Republic."
Any presence of French troops in Ukraine, for whatever reason, is of course a direct French participation in the war against Russia. It will naturally be responded to by the appropriate means.
Posted by b on February 27, 2024 at 16:29 UTC | Permalink
next page »Apparently this German minister was not smart enough to clap with just one hand: the hand corresponding to the side of the podium upon which the Israeli half of the Israeli-Palestinian filmmaking duo was standing on!
By committing the infraction of clapping with two she may soon be out of a job.
Posted by: Ludo | Feb 27 2024 16:44 utc | 4
What is the French national interest in Ukraine?
Posted by: Afro | Feb 27 2024 16:37 utc | 2
---
The French are jealous of Russia in CFA Africa.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 27 2024 16:47 utc | 5
It is no secret that Macron wants to be the Napoleon of our time.
Posted by: CIROC | Feb 27 2024 16:47 utc | 6
The West are masters at talking B/S.
They are not in any degree bound by reality.
In this case, I think that it is at least partly a case of talking as if their plans are proceeding apace. More confusing is when they say what appears to be truth (NYT) - I hate that. We know it cannot be truth or they are telling us truth for some nefarious purpose.
In may cases it seems to me that they are trying to provoke and frustrate Russia and Russians - Resistance is Futile(tm).
Personally, I think it is best to simply ignore until they go away. I believe that is Putin's genius.
Posted by: jared | Feb 27 2024 16:49 utc | 7
The French are jealous of Russia in CFA Africa.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 27 2024 16:47 utc | 5
It is no secret that Macron wants to be the Napoleon of our time.
Posted by: CIROC | Feb 27 2024 16:47 utc | 6
These answers are kind of psychotic, but in fairness, you're discussing Macron.
Posted by: Afro | Feb 27 2024 16:50 utc | 8
EU + England military budget ~600 billion
RF military budget ~100 billion
Posted by: Exile | Feb 27 2024 16:55 utc | 9
Peskov - "inevitable": 'nuff said.
Well known that NATO 'specialists' - on gardening leave - have been operating sophisticated tackle for the Ukrainians in the theatre of the SMO for quite some time.
Posted by: Don Firineach | Feb 27 2024 16:56 utc | 10
What the French mean is that now Russia is in a position to just charge accross the Dniepr if they want, France wants to signal there is a 5% risk that French soldiers will be waiting there.
UK, Germany and the other countries want to signal that there is a zero % chance that British or German troops will be there - that is signal to Brits and Germans considering signing up to their vastly undermanned forces.
Posted by: Mickey Droy | Feb 27 2024 17:00 utc | 11
Well, as LBJ followed the French into Viet Namara...oops Viet Nam..it's high time the French requite that historical idiocy.
Posted by: S Brennan | Feb 27 2024 17:00 utc | 12
Hmmm, French troops to support Ukraine. Considering France's track record against the Russians, and everyone else over the years, Maybe Ukraine should say, No Thank You?
Posted by: Mattnu | Feb 27 2024 17:03 utc | 13
EU + England military budget ~600 billion
RF military budget ~100 billion
Posted by: Exile | Feb 27 2024 16:55 utc | 9
But the questions is, how many 155mm grenades can be bought in Europe for 600 billion and how many 152 mm grenades can Russia produce for 100 Million?
Posted by: HEL | Feb 27 2024 17:05 utc | 14
EU + England military budget ~600 billion
RF military budget ~100 billion
EU artillery shell: $6,000+
RF artillery shell: $600
10x more money actually gets you 40% less arms.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Feb 27 2024 17:07 utc | 15
Macron didn't think before he blustered. If open war breaks out between Russia and ZATO, China won't have to be asked twice if Russia requests assistance.
The problem with China, for the Eurotrash, is that China hasn't got a lot of Nukes so they've all got someone's name on them.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Feb 27 2024 17:11 utc | 16
Macron fancies himself as the leader of the free Europe against bad bad Russia. He's vain enough to say anything that supports that role . There's something personal in this fight , poor Macron was not well received in Moscow and had to speak to Putin across a 3 meters long table ,for all Europe to see . He was so pissed off that he later openly disclosed a telephone conversation he had with Putin, against absolutely all diplomatic rules , all the while his cronies laughing hysterically as Macron was making fun of his russian counterpart's concept of legality .
Macron openly despises the french people and the fact that he got elected a second time speaks volume about the state of the french nation .
Posted by: paul | Feb 27 2024 17:12 utc | 17
Posted by: Exile | Feb 27 2024 16:55 utc | 9
North Korea produces more artillery shells than the EU does, so North Korea's military budget is probably larger than the EU's.
Posted by: CIROC | Feb 27 2024 17:14 utc | 18
Back in the old days, Russia defeated Napoleon and Hitler.
Posted by: AI | Feb 27 2024 17:16 utc | 19
Since the bombing of Libya by France, I've read that not only did France run out of bombs during that time but they've never been able to replace them due to budget cuts in France's military.
Who ARE these morons and why do the people of France and Germany tolerate them to speak on their behalf?
Really: "I am thinking in particular of mine clearance, cyberdefence, the production of weapons on site, on Ukrainian territory" !!!
These are actions of WAR. They mean war with Russia ... you know, the country that can destroy France about a hundred times over if necessary.
Lastly, did these idiots actually object to their citizens being killed in a war zone???
Posted by: Caliman | Feb 27 2024 17:19 utc | 21
As soon as Macron started with his speech, all the French media started to exclaim: "finally, what courage, if we had decided earlier we would already be at the borders of 1992, we mustn't be afraid of Putin's red lines, he's bluffing...."
This is an operation to prepare opinion. All those who say "never" are satisfied that the debate has been launched. Even so called Socialist Party.
Posted by: La Bastille | Feb 27 2024 17:21 utc | 22
As even the Ukrainian TG noted for Macron to say that means that the situation at the front must be really dire for Ukraine.
Shoigu said over 444,000 Ukie casualties so far. Not 31K like Zelensky said.
Posted by: Down South | Feb 27 2024 17:24 utc | 23
If only Macron and the EU vassals could come up with one lie and stick to it. It gets confusing.
1) Russia will attack and roll over EU nations - domino style, so we must prepare ($)
2) Russia will lose and be drained of money and men, so number 1 won't happen
3) Since Ukraine will win (how is unspecified) , doesn't that mean that the West doesn't have to bother?
Overall, these nations and their populations are just playthings for the rich and elite. Like one of those giant chessboards on which you use dressed up servants as game pieces. I think that's why they display such delusional contempt for common people and their lives and can say anything they wish with no accountability.
Posted by: Eighthman | Feb 27 2024 17:24 utc | 24
Paul @18
It is all the Russians' fault, they mistook Micron's wife for his babushka.
Posted by: AJ | Feb 27 2024 17:25 utc | 25
>> Stephane Sejourne said:
"Contre la Russie, nous devons nous battez !"
Posted by: w | Feb 27 2024 17:25 utc | 26
The French are jealous of Russia in CFA Africa.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 27 2024 16:47 utc | 5
Macron has a problem, both his country and his wife are 400 years beyond their prime and 200 beyond their last claim to any serious spotlight.
Posted by: Newbie | Feb 27 2024 17:26 utc | 27
Down South @24
I think Zelenskiy's figure of 31,000 sounds accurate...for this month alone!
Posted by: AJ | Feb 27 2024 17:30 utc | 28
But the questions is, how many 155mm grenades can be bought in Europe for 600 billion and how many 152 mm grenades can Russia produce for 100 Million?
Posted by: HEL | Feb 27 2024 17:05 utc | 14
EU + England military budget ~600 billion
RF military budget ~100 billion
EU artillery shell: $6,000+
RF artillery shell: $600
10x more money actually gets you 40% less arms.
Posted by: TJandTheBear | Feb 27 2024 17:07 utc | 15
Was about to say that, and you can probably raise an army with more MEN in tiny RF than in all of the UE+UK.
You can't win wars with interior decorators and services...
Posted by: Newbie | Feb 27 2024 17:30 utc | 29
I think Zelenskiy's figure of 31,000 sounds accurate...for this month alone!
Posted by: AJ | Feb 27 2024 17:30 utc | 29
I said as much in a previous thread.
If we cannot compare with WWI (where wounded soldiers weren't supposed to carry on and hold the line) comparing to WWII USSR then it would be close to that for the average month and close to 700k KIA (and compatible with only 300.000+ mutilated AFU)
Posted by: Newbie | Feb 27 2024 17:33 utc | 30
This is entirely predictable.
We go through the same thing every time. Russia draws red line. West says “no go” then flirts with red line, eventually ignores it.
Russian dithering and western sunk costs have brought us to WWIII. It’s coming, and there’s no point in pretending otherwise.
Had Russia used adequate force in the beginning, the West would have had to accept the destruction of Ukraine as a fait accompli. By letting the US and its puppets pour money, materiel, men and propaganda into propping up the regime in Kiev, they have reached the point where they cannot be seen to back down now.
Posted by: Feral Finster | Feb 27 2024 17:34 utc | 31
The big idea of all the politicians, journalists and military men who appear on television is to send not just a few mercenaries, but thousands of soldiers.
They claim that sending technicians to maintain the guns or soldiers whose job would "only" be to train in their use or to help the Ukrainians improve their use or targeting.
And thousands of deminers.
All this not at the rear, but on the front line.
It's easy to understand that the aim is to make the participation of NATO troops in the next spring offensive seem "natural".
Posted by: La Bastille | Feb 27 2024 17:34 utc | 32
Maybe the French under MicronMacron management will get to add a few new words to their language. They got bistro after Napoleon made the bad decision to invade Russia through Ukraine.
Horror show comes to mind.
Posted by: lex talionis | Feb 27 2024 17:35 utc | 33
Anyone who still takes France seriously has no better thing to do. A country which is being kicked-out and humiliated by small poor African countries on daily basis is threatening to fight Russia! Please don't dignify madness with attention. I remember that France threatened to send troops to Niger when its man in Niamey was unceremoniously removed from office. What happened to that? Macron, like the rest of the EU leadership, is a clown.
Posted by: Steve | Feb 27 2024 17:36 utc | 34
Macron fancies himself as the leader of the free Europe against bad bad Russia. He's vain enough to say anything that supports that role . There's something personal in this fight , poor Macron was not well received in Moscow and had to speak to Putin across a 3 meters long table ,for all Europe to see . He was so pissed off that he later openly disclosed a telephone conversation he had with Putin, against absolutely all diplomatic rules , all the while his cronies laughing hysterically as Macron was making fun of his russian counterpart's concept of legality .
Macron openly despises the french people and the fact that he got elected a second time speaks volume about the state of the french nation .
Posted by: paul | Feb 27 2024 17:12 utc | 18
Macron is a european, a sniveling cuck and european who craves the approval of his American Master and will happily start WWIII if that gives him the chance the kiss Masters Feet one more time.
The fact is, the sociopaths who rule the West would gladly exterminate 99% of life one earth if that was the price of dominion over whatever was left.
Posted by: Feral Finster | Feb 27 2024 17:37 utc | 35
Today nobody in France can believe their ears. Macron goes from the Salon de l'Agriculture where he was almost tarred and feathered to announce his idea about stationing troops in Ukraine (a partitioning?). At any rate right across the political spectrum, nobody outside his own party (in a minority) supports this and reminds our "Maréchal" Macron that there is still a parliament in this country. But curiously the two disasters are linked. The farmers are protesting the unfair taxfree status given to Ukrainian ag products that undercuts their break even prices. In particular the Ukrainian chicken imports. It seems that these poor unhealthy birds are born live and die in an enormous "poulet city" operated by a Ukrainian oligarch who for safety lives in Turkey. It is common knowledge that "viande de l'UE is in fact Ukrainian. Sejourné's statement that we cannot let Russia win because they would then control the Ukies' wheat exports told what is in fact behind the war. Destroy European agriculture and shift it to the east. The so called "Plan Vert" a Macronian answer to ecology will require a further reduction by 10% of French agriculturally disposable land.
Posted by: Stierlitz | Feb 27 2024 17:37 utc | 36
I'll take a little bit of literary license, if you don't mind: >>Macron may just be peeved a bit. A month ago a Russian air strike ... turned some French mercenaries into French Fries.<<
Posted by: Maracatu | Feb 27 2024 17:39 utc | 37
As soon as Macron started with his speech, all the French media started to exclaim: "finally, what courage, if we had decided earlier we would already be at the borders of 1992, we mustn't be afraid of Putin's red lines, he's bluffing...."
This is an operation to prepare opinion. All those who say "never" are satisfied that the debate has been launched. Even so called Socialist Party.
Posted by: La Bastille | Feb 27 2024 17:21 utc | 23
Exactly. Stop kidding yourselves. Any debate is for show purposes only. By the time you read about a debate, the decision has already long been made.
Posted by: Feral Finster | Feb 27 2024 17:39 utc | 38
Had Russia used adequate force in the beginning, the West would have had to accept the destruction of Ukraine as a fait accompli. By letting the US and its puppets pour money, materiel, men and propaganda into propping up the regime in Kiev, they have reached the point where they cannot be seen to back down now.
Posted by: Feral Finster | Feb 27 2024 17:34 utc | 32
On the plus side, what happens to something like an egg where all that's hard is in the shell?
Once you crack the shell, there's nothing stopping you from eating the egg.
Once the shell cracks , even the hard shards that remain no longer belong to "the egg" and may go wherever they want (hey, even sharing the egg white)
There is an ongoing joke about country 404, I would rather say a better fit for the current European situation is 404AD... grab your history books and see what the next century brings
Posted by: Newbie | Feb 27 2024 17:40 utc | 39
It's just a last ditch attempt to influence events with words because that's all that's left.
Posted by: Honzo | Feb 27 2024 17:40 utc | 40
It is one of the great failures of Western democracy that their leaders always attempt to respond to national problems with international headlines. Macron is in dire straights in France, and if he could figure out a way of fighting a small limited war against Russia, with few casualties and great headlines, he would, as a way to relieve the pressure he is under (economy, farmers, lack of a political majority, inexperienced prime minister, etc.).
The Russians have clearly said that, in case Western Troops officially came to Ukraine, their countries of origin would automatically become targets. Time to take the Eiffel tower out ?
Posted by: Shahmaran | Feb 27 2024 17:43 utc | 41
one possiblity: these troups would be entirely for securing westukraine after the partition, to make sure to be there first, before polish, hungarian, or various services take a claim.
Posted by: daccord | Feb 27 2024 17:46 utc | 42
Isn't adrenochrome extraction or organ harvesting a humanitarian job to the west?
Posted by: Michael A | Feb 27 2024 17:46 utc | 43
Macron does not want French troops in the Ukraine to fight Russia. Macron wants French troops in the Ukraine to occupy the country after the soon-to-happen capitulation.
Say what you want, but the probability of the Ukraine descending into total chaos is very high after its defeat, and in that case foreign troops occupation could be the only option to stabilize the rump state of the Ukraine.
Macron is actually much smarter than many give him credit.
Posted by: SG | Feb 27 2024 17:46 utc | 44
@ charlie | Feb 27 2024 17:18 utc | 21
According to the Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defense and Armed Forces: "we don't have enough ammunition for a very long conflict".
In a letter to the Minister of the Armed Forces, they also point out that France could run out of ammunition "in just four days of high-intensity conflict".
The French Military Planning Act (Loi de Programmation Militaire) anticipated the need to regenerate our munitions. The proof is in the figures: 7 billion euros allocated to munitions over the period 2019-2025.
That's just over a billion a year for all types of ammunition. That's less than 200,000 artillery shells a year, or 1 month or 2 on a serious engagement.
An army that can fight 2 months a year and wants to repel Russia
Posted by: La | Feb 27 2024 17:46 utc | 45
Posted by: Exile | Feb 27 2024 16:55 utc | 9
UK was unable to provide the aircraft carrier to Nato exercise and they shoot a trident practically on their own submarine.
All west mic is just a money sucker.
Posted by: Mario | Feb 27 2024 17:47 utc | 46
Today nobody in France can believe their ears. Macron goes from the Salon de l'Agriculture where he was almost tarred and feathered to announce his idea about stationing troops in Ukraine (a partitioning?). At any rate right across the political spectrum, nobody outside his own party (in a minority) supports this and reminds our "Maréchal" Macron that there is still a parliament in this country. But curiously the two disasters are linked. The farmers are protesting the unfair taxfree status given to Ukrainian ag products that undercuts their break even prices. In particular the Ukrainian chicken imports. It seems that these poor unhealthy birds are born live and die in an enormous "poulet city" operated by a Ukrainian oligarch who for safety lives in Turkey. It is common knowledge that "viande de l'UE is in fact Ukrainian. Sejourné's statement that we cannot let Russia win because they would then control the Ukies' wheat exports told what is in fact behind the war. Destroy European agriculture and shift it to the east. The so called "Plan Vert" a Macronian answer to ecology will require a further reduction by 10% of French agriculturally disposable land.
Posted by: Stierlitz | Feb 27 2024 17:37 utc | 37
Since when did anyone in france care about public opinion?
Posted by: Feral Finster | Feb 27 2024 17:47 utc | 47
On the plus side, what happens to something like an egg where all that's hard is in the shell?
Once you crack the shell, there's nothing stopping you from eating the egg.
Once the shell cracks , even the hard shards that remain no longer belong to "the egg" and may go wherever they want (hey, even sharing the egg white)
There is an ongoing joke about country 404, I would rather say a better fit for the current European situation is 404AD... grab your history books and see what the next century brings
Posted by: Newbie | Feb 27 2024 17:40 utc | 40
Frankly, that sounds like wishful thinking.
Posted by: Feral Finster | Feb 27 2024 17:48 utc | 48
operated by a Ukrainian oligarch
Posted by: Stierlitz | Feb 27 2024 17:37 utc | 37
---
Part I
DR JOHN C RICH
Executive Chairman, Member of the Nominations and Remuneration Committee, Member of the Government Relations and Public Affairs CommitteeDr Rich initially joined the board in 2006 as an Independent Non-Executive director.
Dr John Rich is a senior consulting Agribusiness Industry Specialist for the International Finance Corporation (World Bank Group) and has acted as a specialist Agribusiness Consultant for the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD). He is a senior board advisor to ADM Capital, representing major US and EU based pension funds, an Independent non-executive Director of Zalar Morocco and Director of Australian Agricultural Consulting and Nutrition in Australia. From 1990 to 2003, he was an executive director of Austasia Pty Ltd, an agri-business conglomerate which has operations in Australia, South East Asia and China, and from 1995 to 2002 was a director of AN-OSI Pty Ltd, a company that specialized in supply-chain management for feedlot beef, poultry and dairy operations in Asia and Europe.
Dr Rich holds a BSc and a BVSc from the University of Sydney, is a member of the Australian and New Zealand College of Veterinary Scientists and a registered member of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons with extensive post graduate experience in the agribusiness, food and finance industry. He has completed a number of post-graduate courses in finance and agricultural food-related industries.
On the 19th of July, 2016 he was appointed as interim Chairman of the Board of Directors of MHP S.A. and Chairman of Nomination and Remuneration Committee.
On 19 March 2019, the Board confirmed Dr John Rich as Executive Chairman of the Board of Directors of MHP SE on a permanent basis.
https://mhp.com.ua/en/pro-kompaniu/rada-direktoriv-mhp-se
Posted by: too scents | Feb 27 2024 17:48 utc | 49
operated by a Ukrainian oligarch
Posted by: Stierlitz | Feb 27 2024 17:37 utc | 37
---
Part II
European funding for Ukraine chicken magnate angers farmers
Development bank has poured nearly $1bn into large agribusinesses in war-torn country
Europe’s development bank has pumped nearly $1bn into chicken farms and other large Ukrainian food businesses since Russia’s full-scale invasion, funding cheap exports that have recently helped swell farmer protests across the EU.
Since 2022, the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development has lent $890mn to Ukraine’s producers of eggs, poultry and sugar, which will soon face quotas to protect EU jobs, the bank told the Financial Times.
...
MHP executive chair John Rich denied that his business alone was undercutting Poland’s production. He said he had sympathy for disgruntled farmers, but because of other more serious problems they are facing, such as cuts in fuel subsidies and climate-related regulations.
“If I was a farmer, I would be demonstrating as well,” Rich said. But restricting Ukraine’s exports “doesn’t make sense policy-wise”, he said, noting that Ukrainian agribusiness was “caught up” between upcoming EU-wide elections, changes in the common agriculture policy and a political move to the right.
...
https://www.ft.com/content/77991370-0d96-4678-bf1b-a37c992c7d2f
Posted by: too scents | Feb 27 2024 17:52 utc | 51
Yes, I couldn't really understand why Macron said that. It didn't really correspond with French policy so far over Ukraine. So far the policy has not been to take the lead, but to support the European allies, particularly Germany, but not to barge ahead of everyone else. It is not surprising that the Europeans haven't followed him, and indeed his remarks have been nuanced in France.
My guess is that it had something to do with the post-Munich meeting Macron called in Paris, but I haven't had time to follow up the question.
Posted by: Laguerre | Feb 27 2024 17:57 utc | 52
Posted by: Stierlitz | Feb 27 2024 17:37 utc | 37
Very interesting insight, Merci!
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 27 2024 17:59 utc | 53
🇷🇺👉🇫🇷🏴☠️ Maria ZakharovaRegarding Emmanuel Macron’s statements on the possibility of sending NATO troops to Ukraine, I would like to remind everyone that a month ago the Foreign Minister of France denied the involvement of Paris in the recruitment of mercenaries for the Kiev regime and denounced the direct evidence of this fact as “gross Russian propaganda.”
One tends to think that the President of France is unaware of what his subordinates are saying, or of what he himself is saying.
I would like to remind Mr Macron of France’s history, which has seen widely different periods.
‼️🇫🇷🏴☠️ In April 1945, SS Division Charlemagne (Charles the Great) and several other units defended Berlin, including the Fuehrerbunker (Hitler’s bunker). These units were among the last to be awarded the order of the Knight’s Cross of Nazi Germany. The French soldiers from SS Charlemagne were the last defenders of the Reichstag and the Reich Chancellery.
⁉️🇷🇺👉🇫🇷🏴☠️ Emmanuel, are you planning to form Charlemagne Deux for the defence of Zelensky’s bunker?
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/102070
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 27 2024 18:01 utc | 54
Had Russia used adequate force in the beginning, the West would have had to accept the destruction of Ukraine as a fait accompli.Feral Finster | Feb 27 2024 17:34 utc | 32
Perhaps, but only for a few months at best, the time it takes to prepare a new pressure cooker.
Mindk 1, Minsk 2....
As the CIA now recognizes, Ukraine is at least ten years of hard work.
Russia has perfectly understood the West's objectives towards it: weakening, dividing and destroying.
All of which is a prerequisite for doing the same to China.
Putin has no intention of stopping NATO in Ukraine
Putin (and his friends) intend to stop NATO.
And Putin's "friends" have 200 to 500 years of Payback.
Posted by: La Bastille | Feb 27 2024 18:02 utc | 55
Sejourné : "sending troops in 404 won't make France a co-belligerent".
See: that's the perfect example of why taking cocaine by the ass is never a good idea ...
Posted by: Savonarole | Feb 27 2024 18:06 utc | 56
"What is the French national interest in Ukraine?"
Posted by: Afro | Feb 27 2024 16:37 utc | 2
That's where they grow all the freedom fries. Their actual interest is nothing more than xenophobia on the part of both the elites and general population. In a word, bigotry.
Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 27 2024 18:07 utc | 57
"But the questions is, how many 155mm grenades can be bought in Europe for 600 billion and how many 152 mm grenades can Russia produce for 100 Million?"
Posted by: HEL | Feb 27 2024 17:05 utc | 14
Yes. And also, if they had been maintaining those sorts of budgets, or even half that amount, how can they be so incredibly inefficient as to not be able to supply Ukraine?
Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 27 2024 18:11 utc | 58
Well, the west can't hide their losses anymore.
At first, there was american "instructors" in Vietnam. There are american instructors in Taiwan.
Sending in instructors and police troops will explain that some of their citicens will die in Ukraine, without the ruling class trying to deny it.
Btw. Anybody seen L. Austin or his General Aguto (assigned to Kiev 12/12-23) lately.
Posted by: Paul from Norway | Feb 27 2024 18:14 utc | 59
@ HEL | 14
But the questions is, how many 155mm grenades can be bought in Europe for 600 billion and how many 152 mm grenades can Russia produce for 100 Million?
—————————————
You mean 155mm artillery shells… There is no such thing as a 155mm grenade.
Posted by: Liberator | Feb 27 2024 18:16 utc | 60
The West wants to preserve its narrative at any cost. Therefore the intervention is inevetable. They have to fight even if they cannot.
Posted by: vargas | Feb 27 2024 18:19 utc | 61
Thanks b.
Yes, luckily only words for a domestic - whatever. But what is tragic for France is that it is under total US domination.
De Gaulle is turning in his grave at the high rpm.
Macron has a role that he cannot really play, but he is trying it, oh, so badly. There is going to be a backlash that will take him out, very soon. Probably in Germany too. Meloni is having a bad day in Italy too. Stolty gets flamed by Pentagon for "allowing" F-16 to strike deep into Russia. So all this leads to a total disaster in asynchronous West. The only thing Russia has to do is to progress steadily, ignore the West and finish Ukraine off. That said, it still needs an eye open, as those guys are not to be trusted.
Posted by: whirlX | Feb 27 2024 18:20 utc | 62
We go through the same thing every time. Russia draws red line. West says “no go” then flirts with red line, eventually ignores it.
Russias "Red Lines" are there to lead the way for their opponent.
depleting stores, ruining themselves with sanctions ( rinse, repeat ) ...
in generally making an ass of themselves in view of the sane part of the globe.
Afaics this seems to work. This "special military op" was not designed to be over in days.
Posted by: MAKK | Feb 27 2024 18:22 utc | 63
One thing I've just been dying to know but haven't dug up the information, what the heck does it mean when the US says that they've run out of missiles or bombs?
Now this happened back when bush was leveling various parts of the planet. They cleaned they had run out of missiles. But that really means they've run out of missiles they can spare genociding the rest of the world.
So I've seen figures on tanks but I don't know what speculation there is on this sort of classified information and how much is actually known. Does anybody here know?
Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 27 2024 18:22 utc | 64
In his presser today, Lavrov provided a response to Marcon's idiocy. A similar tact was taken by Maria Zakharova's denunciation of the G7 statement about Russia. Both can be read here, "Lavrov Talks with Yemeni PM Abdullah bin Mubarak & Press". I should also note that the second meeting of the International Russophile organization met in Moscow today with Lavrov presenting Putin's greetings and providing his own speech, which drew participants from 130 nations. Russia's line that the West started the war in 2014 with an even earlier attempt made in 2004 is gaining traction since it represents the truth of the matter.
Macron is proof that colonial powers, once having tasted the sweet meat of colonial wealth and the blood of their colonial victims, seem to lose the ability to view the world introspectively.
France had been a colonial power in Africa and Indochina for approximately one hundred years before the Germans invaded and occupied France, in June 1940. Yet, one of Frances priorities after casting off the yoke of German Nazi Fascism was to demand that their former colonies accept France as their colonial overlords. It never occurred to the leaders of post WWII France that, like the French, the former colonies may also want to enjoy the freedom of their sovereignty.
This inability to think introspectively, of course, led to the French war with the people of Vietnam for which France was soundly defeated at the battle of Dien Bien Phu, which ended in May 1954, and the US took up the war for colonialism presented as a war of dominoes.
My point should be obvious. The French built the Maginot line in the 1930's to prevent Germany from invading France but are themselves clueless as to why Russia drew a red line concerning Ukraine and Georgia's entry into NATO (Russia's sworn enemy). All NATO countries, most of whom have been a colonel power at some point in their recent histories, seem weirdly keen on putting nuclear capable weapons Russia's borders.
NATO wants to place nuclear capable weapons directly on Russia's border, and nothing more needs to be said, because Russia also has a right to self-defense from the proven blood thirsty colonial powers that constitute most of NATO.
If the US (and European powers in NATO) were capable of introspection, Marcon and Joe Biden might have thought to themselves: "Gee, what if Russia and China wanted to put nuclear weapons on our borders? Sleepy Joe then might also remember the Cuban Missile Crisis, and how the US responded to that real event but that would require the real ability to think introspectively.
Posted by: Ed | Feb 27 2024 18:23 utc | 66
The failed EU cannot afford the optics of thousands of EU soldiers coming home in body bags or being captured by the Russian. EU sanctions failed, and their militaries will fail on the battlefield. More sober heads understand that. Macron is a diva without an audience.
Posted by: Janet | Feb 27 2024 18:25 utc | 68
@ Norwegian | Feb 27 2024 18:01 utc | 55
«Santa"Maria"» would be a fine name for a Destroyer.
She punched «"Raoul" Minicron». And his claim to scatter the Russian army
https://youtu.be/T9hDBtX7t8s?si=yX9Hp5NWZba9x-8w
Posted by: La Bastille | Feb 27 2024 18:26 utc | 69
@ Steve | 35
With all due respect, the West’s clown is the USA… Americans ran out of Afghanistan during the night leaving their citizens and equipment behind… The US Navy is being outsmarted by Houthis…
France left certain African countries after being asked to leave. That was the right thing to do. AmerIcans illegally occupy parts of Syria and steal the oil… Americans were asked to leave Iraq, repeatedly, but are still in Iraq.
Posted by: Liberator | Feb 27 2024 18:27 utc | 70
🤷 In addition to NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg, Sweden, Hungary, Poland and the Czech Republic, 🇩🇪 Germany and the 🇬🇧 United Kingdom announced having no plans to deploy a military presence in Ukraine.https://t.me/ukraine_watch/17528Thus, at the moment, no one has supported Macron's idea.
Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 27 2024 18:27 utc | 71
I don't know I keep hearing all this talk about red lines and NATO overstepping. I think what would really help here is if Russia compromised a little bit with France.
Allow them to be responsible for all demining staffing and operational requirements.
Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 27 2024 18:28 utc | 72
"What is the French national interest in Ukraine?"
Posted by: Afro | Feb 27 2024 16:37 utc | 2
Probably champagne and foie gras sales..apparently its the perfect accompaniment to a certain powder.
Posted by: Jm | Feb 27 2024 18:33 utc | 74
Actually, maybe Macron is on to something. He should send in the entire French Army. Then the week after that, the UK should send in theirs. Then for week 3, the Germans should go in. This could really get entertaining.
Posted by: Sentient | Feb 27 2024 18:33 utc | 75
EU + England military budget ~600 billion
RF military budget ~100 billion
EU artillery shell: $6,000+
RF artillery shell: $600
10x more money actually gets you 40% less arms.Posted by: TJandTheBear | Feb 27 2024 17:07 utc | 15
Typo: with 10-fold disparity in prices/costs, 6x more money gets 40% less stuff. EU seems to have more manpower, so it can resort to tactics that trade manpower for disadvantage in ammo. For starters, mobilize all think tankers and their NGO helpers under the age of 60, give them 4 week training and some weapons, and let them volunteer. There is a lot of redundancy in their work, so the remaining guys and gals above 60 could continue their work.
Another possibility is mobilizing farmers who are protesting, blocking borders, etc., volunteering not necessary, training can be shorter because they are mechanically inclined, familiar with heavy equipment etc., give weapons after transferring to eastern Ukraine...
Another possibility is to seek low cost suppliers, North Korea, India, perhaps Brazil...
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Feb 27 2024 18:34 utc | 76
Russian dithering and western sunk costs have brought us to WWIII. It’s coming, and there’s no point in pretending otherwise.Had Russia used adequate force in the beginning, the West would have had to accept the destruction of Ukraine as a fait accompli. By letting the US and its puppets pour money, materiel, men and propaganda into propping up the regime in Kiev, they have reached the point where they cannot be seen to back down now.
Posted by: Feral Finster | Feb 27 2024 17:34 utc | 32
An imbecilic take. Had Russia intervened more forcefully, NATO would have escalated. You seem incapable of recognizing the suicidal idiocy of the Occident. The blame isn't on Russia who has played her hand well, but on NATO who have misjudged the situation every step of the way.
You consistently criticize Rusisa but I haven't seen you post a single word exoricating the assholes in the West who pushed Russia into defacto alliance woth China, or who currently are empowering a genocide in Israel, or who fucked their economy up due to massive corruption and greed.
They aren't just stupid, they're murderous. And you want to blame Russia for bringing us to the doorstep of WW3 because they didnt push back hard enough? Get the fuck outta here with that shit.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Feb 27 2024 18:39 utc | 77
"Lastly, did these idiots actually object to their citizens being killed in a war zone???
Posted by: Caliman | Feb 27 2024 17:19 utc | 22"
Well, they did send their troops to Afghanistan to lose.
Posted by: lester | Feb 27 2024 18:41 utc | 78
@32 Feral
De uma vez por todas:
A Rússia não estava preparada para usar "força total" em 2022
Posted by: Soviético | Feb 27 2024 18:41 utc | 79
Silly little Macron, down boy. You're just a poodle, a pet for your US master. All that's missing from your outfit is a dog collar, and a leash.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 27 2024 18:41 utc | 80
@ Norwegian | Feb 27 2024 18:27 utc | 72
"No plan"
"At the moment"
Translate to
"Macron's comments, a premature ejaculation after the high emotional tension felt at the Salon de l'Agriculture."
Posted by: La Bastille | Feb 27 2024 18:41 utc | 81
But the questions is, how many 155mm grenades can be bought in Europe for 600 billion and how many 152 mm grenades can Russia produce for 100 Million?
Posted by: HEL | Feb 27 2024 17:05 utc | 14
------------------------------------------------------------
But then there is North Korea, China, Iran, and new allies coming into Brics all the time who at a minimum tacitly support Russia's right to not be surrounded by the bloody colonial western power's nuclear weapons. NATO is no friend to most of the nations of the world.
Posted by: Ed | Feb 27 2024 18:43 utc | 82
That's just how it is, when the population degenerates, in democracies it also affects the political class. Now Macron wants to send troops to Ukraine. Does he perhaps also think about the escalation potential that the powers of the East can offer? China is not yet an official weapons supplier, that can change. North Korea still only supplies weapons, it could also be divisions. France ceased to exist as a state with a megaton on Paris, the same applies to London and England. Putin could do that after breakfast. Have you actually gone crazy?
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Feb 27 2024 18:47 utc | 83
EU cannot accept bodybags but they hope that massive and devastating airstrikes on Russia's proper would be enoughto scare Russia. I think that would fail.
Posted by: vargas | Feb 27 2024 18:50 utc | 84
Frankly, that sounds like wishful thinking.
Posted by: Feral Finster | Feb 27 2024 17:48 utc | 49
Not wishful thinking at all, the US does not fall with the fall of Europe. (Constantinople didn't)
And an end cycle situation could hardly be considered something nice, in 70 years we would be saying hi to a new dark age for 350 years. Lookup bronze age dark ages and medieval dark ages. If things go sideways and it gets global nuclear then expect much worse.
Posted by: Newbie | Feb 27 2024 18:51 utc | 85
What is the French national interest in Ukraine?
Posted by: Afro | Feb 27 2024 16:37 utc | 2
It is hard for me to image what type of person has lived through the past 4 years and still believes that the leadership of any of the NATO countries are acting in their citizens “best interest.” Across the board, in ALL areas, these leaders are acting directly against their own people, imposing a top-down agenda, the same agenda in all countries. From the USA on down, all these countries are being actively destroyed from within, while they wage a proxy war in Russia.
It’s all part of the agenda. I’m pretty sure both Macron and Trudeau (the two loudest ‘barking poodles’ of the west) have cycled through Kiev recently and now both are out barking about the war to the controlled media. What goes on during these regular visits to Kiev by all these leaders?? For some reason that image of Zelensky dressed up in leather tights comes to mind.
Posted by: Moonraker | Feb 27 2024 18:52 utc | 86
Russia's GDP is 13 times less than the US - yet Ukraine shows Russia outmanufactures the US in arms.
Yemen's GDP is more than 1000 times less than the US, but is giving the US a run for it's money.
We may have to re-assess our place in the world.
Posted by: Passerby | Feb 27 2024 18:54 utc | 87
Posted by: Afro | Feb 27 2024 16:37 utc | 2
Cheap land for vineyards? The Cabernet will have an earthy phosphorus nose, a sulfurous palate and a depleted uranium finish for at least the first few vintages.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 27 2024 18:57 utc | 88
Macron is in panic because the ukranian army is near collapse and the far right will win the next european élections. All the french political parties are against this completly stupid idea to put the french army in Ukrain. It is not needed to comment the Macron delirium. Perhaps an excess of cocaïne or wine?
Posted by: Koui | Feb 27 2024 19:02 utc | 89
- And with what is France going to fight in the Ukraine ?
- I think it's more words and very little action.
Posted by: WMG | Feb 27 2024 19:04 utc | 90
Btw. Anybody seen L. Austin or his General Aguto (assigned to Kiev 12/12-23) lately.
Posted by: Paul from Norway | Feb 27 2024 18:14 utc | 60
Interesting that you should mention it, Aguto seems to have found a phone call was enough for Syrskyi, as he's supposed to be in ukraine (which is probably true if his body wasn't found and returned home), and there is a new main contact, not showing up would seem strange not to say rude.
Minister of Defense of Ukraine Rustem Umierov and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Oleksandr Syrskyi had a telephone conversation with Supreme Allied Commander Europe General Christopher Cavoli and Commander of the Security Assistance Group for Ukraine Lieutenant General Antonio Aguto.
I may be tempted to say that "telephone conversation" was "Séance" mistranslated.
Posted by: Newbie | Feb 27 2024 19:05 utc | 91
the US does not fall with the fall of Europe. (Constantinople didn't)
Posted by: Newbie | Feb 27 2024 18:51 utc | 86
And that's why they can play with the fate of Europe - compliant governments have already been provided for. So either they achieve world domination with the help of Europe, or they don't, and if Europe dies in the process - well, it did well for many decades under the protection of the USA.
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Feb 27 2024 19:11 utc | 92
Reminder that this CRIMINAL ASSHOLE (who loves his Paris meetings) is on-record as to committing himself to Minsk, on January 26, 2022
A Normandy Format meeting between the four countries' representatives was held in Paris on 26 January 2022 in the context of the 2021–2022 Russo-Ukrainian crisis, to be followed by a telephone conversation between the French and Russian presidents on 28 January.[16][17] The representatives of the four governments confirmed their support for Minsk II and committed themselves to resolving existing disagreements. They supported an unconditional ceasefire, and supported strengthening of the 22 July 2020 ceasefire, independent of their disagreements about implementing other components of Minsk II. A followup meeting was planned to take place in Berlin a fortnight later.[18] No joint declaration was agreed upon at the conclusion of the nine-hour-long Normandy Format meeting held on 10 February, but the representatives planned to meet again in March.[19][20][21]
Posted by: The Archivist | Feb 27 2024 19:12 utc | 93
Silly little Macron, down boy. You're just a poodle, a pet for your US master. All that's missing from your outfit is a dog collar, and a leash.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Feb 27 2024 18:41 utc | 81
____
You so sure about that? Better ask his mommy, ermm, wife…or that studly ex-“bodyguard” of his.
Posted by: malenkov | Feb 27 2024 19:13 utc | 94
"But the questions is, how many 155mm grenades can be bought in Europe for 600 billion and how many 152 mm grenades can Russia produce for 100 Million?
Posted by: HEL | Feb 27 2024 17:05 utc | 14
—————————————
You mean 155mm artillery shells… There is no such thing as a 155mm grenade.
Posted by: Liberator | Feb 27 2024 18:16 utc | 61
Well, there probably is in Gaza.
Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 27 2024 19:16 utc | 95
"Gee, what if Russia and China wanted to put nuclear weapons on our borders?"
Posted by: Ed | Feb 27 2024 18:23 utc | 67
Let's never forget that they are parked just a few miles offshore. It's a MAD world.
Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 27 2024 19:22 utc | 97
22
Macrons statement has been arranged with all others EU rats & USA. Its a testing balloon 🎈
They re not taking chessmaster serious!
For them he is a naive weak poser who is drawing red rainblow lines into the air.
Posted by: SlowSoft | Feb 27 2024 19:27 utc | 98
Macron said it very well. We see that the other Westerners are really bastards who send the Ukrainians to war but don't do it themselves. Americans, English, Germans, Scandinavians are the clowns of this speech.
Posted by: Ds | Feb 27 2024 19:29 utc | 99
Scholz and some others apparently 'denied' that they have plans to send troops to Ukraine.
One should be wary of that statement, in case this is one of those 'a sure thing to know something will happen is when it is officially denied'.
Posted by: unimperator | Feb 27 2024 19:32 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
thanks b... well, let the mask come off! that as opposed to the bullshit they offer, would be good! of course the french soldiers are doing humanitarian work, lolol... france and macron must think people are really stupid to try to pass that bullshit off on others..
Posted by: james | Feb 27 2024 16:34 utc | 1