Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 21, 2024
“A Final Solution”

The Wikipedia entry for 'final solution':

The Final Solution (German: die Endlösung, pronounced [diː ˈʔɛntˌløːzʊŋ]) or the Final Solution to the Jewish Question (German: Endlösung der Judenfrage, pronounced [ˈɛntˌløːzʊŋ deːɐ̯ ˈjuːdn̩ˌfʁaːɡə]) was a Nazi plan for the genocide of individuals they defined as Jews during World War II. The "Final Solution to the Jewish question" was the official code name for the murder of all Jews within reach, which was not restricted to the European continent. This policy of deliberate and systematic genocide starting across German-occupied Europe was formulated in procedural and geopolitical terms by Nazi leadership in January 1942 at the Wannsee Conference held near Berlin, and culminated in the Holocaust, which saw the murder of 90% of Polish Jews, and two-thirds of the Jewish population of Europe.

Yesterday the U.S. vetoed a UN Security Council resolution which demanded an unconditional ceasefire in Gaza. Linda Thomas-Greenfield, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, flouted her own resolution which, for lack of support, was not put to a vote.

At the press stake-out after the vote Thomas-Greenfield remarked:

Good afternoon, everyone.

You just heard me make the case for a resolution that I believe all of us can agree to. In fact, the points in the proposed resolution have all been articulated by the other 14 members of this Council.

The draft we’ve presented is a forward leaning resolution. And it is one that we intend to work on in good faith with other Council members to ensure it gets over the finish line.

We are eager to continue working with the Council on this proposal: One that would see a temporary ceasefire as soon as practicable, based on the formula of all hostages being released. And one that would get aid into the hands of those Palestinians who so desperately need it.

All told, we intend to do this the right way, so that we can create the right conditions for a safer, more peaceful future. And we will continue to actively engage in the hard work of direct diplomacy on the ground until we reach a final solution.

A final solution – one way or the other …

Comments

@ canuck | Feb 21 2024 18:22 utc | 99
Surely you’re not implying that only the Bolsheviks did the killing during the Revolution and its aftermath?

Posted by: malenkov | Feb 21 2024 18:25 utc | 101

It is still puzzling why the “approval from all levels” was made to stop “real-time monitoring of the tactical communication of Hamas operatives on their radios”.

The responsibility of Unit 8200 does not end here. In the months leading up to the attack, real-time monitoring of the tactical communication of Hamas operatives on their radios was halted. Had they been monitored, at the very least Israeli intelligence would have had time to deploy forces and mitigate the scale of the invasion.
The decision to cease real-time monitoring was made with approval from all levels, grounded in professional considerations but fundamentally driven by pride: the belief that we will know everything, always, in every arena and against every enemy. Halevi, immediately after the attack, made it clear that he wanted to avoid internal wars in the military and said the blame game was going to wait until after the war. Later, an agreement was reached with the head of the Shin Bet to prevent clashes between organizations, and to focus on the military campaign.
Unit 8200 is the flagship body of Israeli intelligence. After the war, questions will arise about dependence on cyber and the need to return to fundamentals, especially in the field of human intelligence (HUMINT). But before that, it is essential to ensure that the body that failed – and is incapable of acknowledging its failure – does not fail again.

https://www.israelhayom.com/2023/11/23/unit-8200-could-have-save-israel-from-oct-7-why-hasnt-it-owned-up-to-its-failure/
View the multipurpose use of this monitoring:
https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/us/solutions/critical-infrastructures/spectrum-monitoring/military-spectrum-monitoring/military-spectrum-monitoring-overview_256346.html

“military spectrum monitoring systems contribute to situational awareness. At operating bases and other facilities in the area of operation,
the systems can perform 24/7 monitoring of entire frequency bands. Continuous monitoring of spectrum availability and occupancy also enables
detection of external emissions from sources other than friendly troops. The systems can alert operators and geolocate emitters to provide
situational awareness and help protect areas and

The amount of Hamas’ radio traffic would have gone through the roof as they began to assemble and coordinate into launch areas.
As Hamas assembled and concentrated into group areas a pattern would have become apparent.
At go-hour the amount of Hamas’ radio traffic would have become a volcano.
The dispersal of the radio traffic into particular directions would have given the IDF a means of tracking the general direction
and location of Hamas squads.
Haven’t even mentioned the collection of voice information and the monitoring of who meets with whom and where.
Nor the loss of signal strength as radios enter tunnels.
iZrael has been crowing for years about it’s security devices and software, including the use of AI to filter and understand
diverse miitary intelligence.
That the IDF would hamstring itself by ceasing the “real-time monitoring of the tactical communication of Hamas operatives on their radios”
seems to be misinformation. But why?
There seem to be only three explanations.
1) Make their Intentional Defense Failure explainable as just arrogant stupidity.
2) They really were arrogant and stupid.
3) Compartmentalization. They never halted the monitoring they just compartmentalized it to a select group.
There were intelligence officers sounding the alarm about an
imminent Hamas jail break. The IDF did not want knowledge of the imment jail break to
become general knowledge amongst the ranks, so they limited the access to certain intelligence
like that gained from real-time monitoring.

Posted by: librul | Feb 21 2024 18:25 utc | 102

Don’t give Thomas-Greenfield all the credit.
Posted by: too scents | Feb 21 2024 15:29 utc | 32
She gets none. Nikki Two-Tones cleared the plate.

Posted by: sln2002 | Feb 21 2024 18:30 utc | 103

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 21 2024 14:03 utc | 9
Do an image search using Warsaw and Gaza, you’ll find stark reminders of what the zionazis are doing.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Feb 21 2024 14:10 utc | 11
The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising and the Stroop Report documenting the proceedings should be informative in that regard.

Posted by: Delhiliterally | Feb 21 2024 18:30 utc | 104

Wanting to push those particular Arabs off that particular land is not the same as wanting to kill all Arabs

Look everyone, the devils own hair splitter is here to educate us on when mass murder of children is a-ok!

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Feb 21 2024 18:32 utc | 105

So what does anyone propose to do about it?
Posted by: Feral Finster | Feb 21 2024 17:00 utc | 74

What can any of us do? Unlike you we aren’t here to crow about children being murdered en masse because we aren’t monsters. We will be there when people like Sullivan and Nuland are dancing at the end of a rope for their crimes against humanity. Doubt it not, Maerica becomes Nazi Germany 2 in humanity’s shared history, whatever the delusions of the Occident.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Feb 21 2024 18:42 utc | 106

Re: quality of US diplomats
Since maybe 1990 or so, top students in the U.S. all want to go either into Tech or Finance. State Department (Foreign Service Officers) is far FAR down the desirability ranking. State Department actually has a shortage of applicants these days.

Posted by: Exile | Feb 21 2024 18:53 utc | 107

Posted by: SpatialFix | Feb 21 2024 13:57 utc | 6
Posted by: malenkov | Feb 21 2024 14:52 utc | 26
Yes, I also remember the stir Roberts (was it him?) caused here in Oz when he used the expression. I also agree with Malenkov about the extraordinary deficit of learning and diplomatic intelligence. How much greater Lavrov continues to grow in the shadow of these ciphers.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 21 2024 19:03 utc | 108

I’d like it if, when all this is over, Jews, Christians, Muslims and those of Zoroaster all can visit Jerusalem. And, should years from now a new religion be born that is also based upon the book, they too.

Posted by: Passerby | Feb 21 2024 19:04 utc | 109

Apart from our learned barkeep, was the slip noted by any mainstream outlet at all?

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 21 2024 19:06 utc | 110

I also agree with Malenkov about the extraordinary deficit of learning and diplomatic intelligence. How much greater Lavrov continues to grow in the shadow of these ciphers.
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 21 2024 19:03 utc | 108
____
I remember being in Austria when Ronald Lauder (heir to the Estee Lauder fortune, art collector, big donor to the Reagan campaigns) was appointed ambassador there. My Austrian friends were mildly horrified. “Well, at least he can tell a Klimt from a Schiele,” I responded. Things have only gotten worse since then.

Posted by: malenkov | Feb 21 2024 19:08 utc | 111

I’d like it if, when all this is over, Jews, Christians, Muslims and those of Zoroaster all can visit Jerusalem. And, should years from now a new religion be born that is also based upon the book, they too.
Posted by: Passerby | Feb 21 2024 19:04 utc | 109
I agree. The whole city should be flattened and paved and turned into a parking lot, so everyone can visit it.

Posted by: Honzo | Feb 21 2024 19:08 utc | 112

“I’m reminded of the poor Jewish folk crammed into ghettos in Poland during WWII, as the Nazi’s went from door to door, killing every man, woman and child.”
Posted by: Republicofscotland 9
I can’t help but become infuriated when I read evil lies like these. I’m angry at the lack of critical thinking skills in the average western white idi aughts who still confidently believe the absolutely repulsive garbage spewed by our compromised and corrupted governments and media.
What’s it going to take to get you to understand that those in positions of power, who identify as jooose, reflexively LIE by default? …about nearly everything but sports scores, and THOSE they “fix”.
Is it genetic…or is it cultural conditioning that drives these creatures bat shite cray zee?

Posted by: arthurdecco | Feb 21 2024 19:08 utc | 113

IMHO, James Baker was the last U.S. Foreign Secretary who looked the part.

Posted by: Passerby | Feb 21 2024 19:11 utc | 114

Posted by: DunGroanin | Feb 21 2024 14:56 utc | 28
It not controversial that the decision to implement Fall Reinhard was stimulated by the urgency of a deteriorating Ostfront. I recall it was discussed that it had better take place now and quickly in the fog of war before the chance vanishes. Himmler referred to a historic mission for which they would be reviled. One can debate whether the Wannsee conference represented a qualitative or simply quantitative shift in policy toward the Jews, but your point is not an original thesis. No offence, but a lot of wheels are rediscovered in these comments to great fanfare…

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 21 2024 19:15 utc | 115

1.The exact number of people that were killed in the Russian Revolution is disputed amongst historians. The number ranges anywhere from 7 million to 12 million people killed between 1917 and 1923, most of them being civilians.
Posted by: canuck | Feb 21 2024 18:22 utc | 99
You seem to be unaware of the White Terror, the Civil War, the Western interventions and an agricultural system already in the throes of collapse. But yeah, blame the Bolshies.
Why did the revolution happen in the first place? Nothing to do with Tsardom, serfdom or imperialist war. Nothing to do with the vicious exploitation of the working class as Russia started to industrialize in earnest. No, it’s all down to a handful of agitators and a man arriving from Germany on a train.
It amazes me that people who can have a relatively sound understanding of who is to blame for 10/7, the SMO, even 9/11, can still swallow the bullshit propaganda of the SAME VILLAINS when it comes to the Soviets. Next I suppose you’ll tell me about how Mao deliberately starved millions of peasants.

Posted by: Honzo | Feb 21 2024 19:16 utc | 116

the real mafia criminal satanick khazharian ashkanazim the 13th tribe who self identify as yahu and worship baal moloch need exodus.
a transfer agreement like the one chabad zionazi had with hitler without the minting of gold coins
may i suggest geneva home of baksta,wall street and the rise of hitler and the bolshevik revolutions,the empire square mile foreign city state that is the empire of the city of london, washington or vatican city sovereign state
or how about Thilafushi island maldives
also known as trash island

Posted by: todd | Feb 21 2024 19:16 utc | 117

Posted by: bevin | Feb 21 2024 18:12 utc | 95
As I understand your point, I see things very differently.
Tiny groups of criminal elite orchestrate and execute great crimes and they hide behind actions being undertaken on behalf of their people. You referred to the Armenian Genocide. A tiny group of Young Turk radicals, 30 perhaps? in the 1910s decided to eliminate the Armenians. Yet ask any Armenian or Greek and every person, that is 100s of millions, with Turkish ancestory personally killed their grandmother. The proletariate are clannish, ill-informed, confused, brainwashed, scared of social rejection, easily manipulated by their elite, so they conform to whatever they have been told, including picking up a gun and shooting their neighbors. You have no agency when you have been coerced, manipulated and brainwashed; you can even find these principals in US legal doctorine. It has nothing to do with the ISMs except as they serve as tool that these criminals use to acquire power. The narrative is everything as it predetermines options that the individual thinks he can make, (i.e. would you prefer to kill Russians or Muslims?) It is Machevalians pulling whatever levers of power they need to acquire even more power. Sure their are plenty of garden variety bad people, i.e. Macron, Johnson, Bill Clinton, Obama but their arent that many deeply criminal psychopaths that are able to acquire massive power and change the world, ie. Hitler, Cheney, Netanyahoo or Stalin, (2 Dulleses) and if those individuals had not acquired power the world would be very different. We are ruled by psychopaths individuals, who corrupt systems, and the next psychopath picks up where the last one left off. It has very little to do with the will of the people, who have been brainwashed by their television, local power broker or even by their religious institutions.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Feb 21 2024 19:16 utc | 118

@Posted by: wagelaborer | Feb 21 2024 17:02 utc | 75
By 1800 the British Army had completely defeated the French and their native allies, which included the addition of a huge amount of additional territory. With US independence came the ethnic cleansing of all that additional territory. In 1800 the US was certainly not “13 states perched on the east coast of the north American continent” as this map of the US in 1776 shows.
The North American native population had been continuously reduced by disease, genocide and ethnic cleansing throughout the 17th and 18th centuries from up to 10 million to around 600,000 in 1800 and was more than halved again by the end of the century. That is certainly a genocide and much more an ethnic cleansing. The population has recovered in the 20th and 21st centuries but were still subject to a cultural genocide through much of the twentieth century. American Indian Mortality in the Late Nineteenth Century: the Impact of Federal Assimilation Policies on a Vulnerable Population
Of course the modern US capitalist elite, many of which owe family fortunes to land theft and genocide (and narco trafficking to China), do not want to talk about this. As they don’t want to talk about the war of aggression to steal half of Mexico, nor the genocidal actions against the Filipino Moro. Just as the Poles and Baltic States don’t want to talk about their active roles in the Holocaust. Just as the British don’t want to talk about the repeated genocides in Ireland and India, nor the profits made from the slave trade, piracy and narco-trafficking to China. Nor the Turkish about the Armenians. Nor the Germans about South West Africa.
The West was built on genocide, ethnic cleansing and land theft (as with Spain and Portugal in South America and the Europeans in Africa and Asia). The white settler colonies simply exterminated the populations that lived there before them, as happened in much of South America with the added twist of inter-breeding by the predominantly male colonists. Rome did the same with Carthage. The current Zionist regime is simply the most recent example of such European settler behaviour.

Posted by: Roger | Feb 21 2024 19:17 utc | 119

Let me just add to the above: Nothing you know is true, dumbass. The lies didn’t start last week, they didn’t start in the Bush administration, they didn’t start with FDR. American lies started with the founding of the country, and Britain’s are older than that. Not seeing the pattern yet?

Posted by: Honzo | Feb 21 2024 19:18 utc | 120

@ canuck | Feb 21 2024 18:22 utc | 99
“Surely you’re not implying that only the Bolsheviks did the killing during the Revolution and its aftermath?”
Posted by: malenkov | Feb 21 2024 18:25 utc | 101
Let’s use Occam’s razor: if the 1917 Bolshevik revolution never happened instead of 10 million or so dead, no one would have died.
So, yeah.

Posted by: canuck | Feb 21 2024 19:23 utc | 121

@Posted by: Honzo | Feb 21 2024 19:16 utc | 116
Well said, some people’s reflexive anti-communism seriously impacts what are generally excellent insights. Unfortunately, this is the majority of the Western “left”. Its the same with the mass Soviet industrialization in the 1930s which was required to beat the Nazis, and also greatly improved the lives of the vast majority of the population. Instead we get the “Stalin as the unhinged devil BS”, including the vast over-estimations of The Terror now utterly debunked by the opening of the archives and the misrepresentation of the real drought of the early 1930s as driven by the state. In fact once collectivization was achieved the famines that had regularly visited Russia no longer returned. Exactly the same BS with Mao. Then we have people calling modern China capitalist when it has no dominant ruling capitalist class (it has a dominant Party bureaucratic class instead).

Posted by: Roger | Feb 21 2024 19:24 utc | 122

Israel is clearly providing reasons for its own destruction.
Israel’s behaviour puts into question the Final Solution narrative… Indeed, so-called victims of the Nazi death camps would be hypersensitive to anything that looks like a repeat of mass extermination, of genocide. Yet, israel has no compunction about its actions in Gaza… none. In fact, the majority of Israelis strongly support government policies in Gaza AND the expulsion of all non-Jews from Israel.
While I have questioned the Holocaust narrative for years, I was not convinced that there was, in fact, no Holocaust…. BUT, after witnessing Israel’s actions in Gaza, I believe the Holocaust is a HollowHoax, just like Israel is a genetic fraud — Israelis are NOT descendants of the Hebrews who lived in that area 2,000 years ago — and a religious fraud — today’s so-called Judaism is, in fact, rabbinical Pharaism and has nothing to do with the God of Abraham.
Rabbinical Pharaism is based on the Talmud, a man-made compendium of Babylonian satanism and rabbinical interpretations.

Posted by: Liberator | Feb 21 2024 19:24 utc | 123

The UK refused to support the creation of the Jewish State in 1948.
Our foreign office could see where it would lead to. With hindsight, we can see they were right.
The “final solution” is being promoted unwittingly by Netanyahu!
Posted by: Dave Pollard | Feb 21 2024 14:28 utc | 20
==========
By that time it was too late. Way too late.
Britain created this monster, and then tried to walk away from it.
Basically, Britain is responsible for this whole mess.
Starting with the nutsy Christian Evangelicals in the 1820 and ’30s with their ideas about the Second Coming in Palestine, on to the footsy playing with Rothschild, on to the scheming to get the Great War going and divvy up the Ottoman Empire (and protect access to India, of course), on to the Balfour Declaration, on to getting the USA and its Jews involved in WW1, on to Sykes-Picot, on to Versailles and the phony “Mandate,” on to appointing Jew, Herbert Samuel, to administer the Mandate. Now Sunak and Co. are the biggest Zionists around.
Have I left anything out? Or added in something that doesn’t belong?
In any event, it is way too late for Britain to say, “Who, me?”
The best Britain can do now is try to shake their pal, Joe Biden, out of his living coma and stop the flow of arms that enable the genocide.
Oh, and stop the outrageous illegal extradition action against Julian Assange and release him now from the hellhole and living death (and probably actual death) of Belmarsh Prison to his wife and two children.
They don’t call Britain Perfidious Albion for nothing.

Posted by: Jane | Feb 21 2024 19:26 utc | 124

Re: bevin and Hitler-apologism
The greater implications of the thought in my post points to the failure of liberalism to stop this genocide of the Palestinians. If Hegel was right and liberal-democracy did usher in (or is currently) the end of History (Fukuyama), then events such as this points to the inadequacy of the bourgeois order (the U.N., “international law,” etc.) and therefore the need of the snapping-to-attention of spirit, once more.
We can not say that the Israeli-state is just another iteration of Nazism, because what did the liberal order defeat in 1945 and then again in 1989?
We can not say that communism would prevent this because look at the murder of Christians done by its iterations throughout the 20th century.
So this points towards something coming that is as of yet indefinable. This thing from my position seems to be the question, “What is Russia?” It is the terror of certainty.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 21 2024 19:28 utc | 125

@Posted by: canuck | Feb 21 2024 19:23 utc | 121
And if the Americans had not rebelled no one would have died in the US Revolutionary War! Be quiet with your utterly ridiculous illogic. Maybe we should have let the Nazis dominate Europe and then there would not have been all those dead!
Oh and of course no Russian revolution meant that the war with Germany would have continued with more millions of dead. Perhaps the West should not have intervened in the Russian Civil War, and perhaps Versailles not recreate Poland – so many lives would have been saved! Or the Chinese should have just submitted to the Japanese and saved 10s of millions of lives! FFS.

Posted by: Roger | Feb 21 2024 19:29 utc | 126

Let’s use Occam’s razor: if the 1917 Bolshevik revolution never happened instead of 10 million or so dead, no one would have died.
So, yeah.
Posted by: canuck | Feb 21 2024 19:23 utc | 121
_____
Nobody? seriously? Did Kerensky sign Brest-Litovsk? Did he consistently refuse to oppose opposition with violence?
Also, I don’t think “Occam’s Razor” means what you think it does. You can’t use it to prove an unprovable hypothetical, for instance.

Posted by: malenkov | Feb 21 2024 19:32 utc | 127

The “sensitive negotiations” referred by US representative Greenfield are primarily concerned with the status of the so-called “hostages” held by Hamas. Israel’s negotiating position, backed by the US, is these “hostages” must be fully released in order that the military operations be “paused”. It is a demand for unconditional surrender, which is currently playing out like a game of “chicken” I.e. surrender or every inch of Gaza will be ground to pieces. Given the disparity in firepower, legal references to “self-defence” are consciously absurd and serve only as a cover for indefensible policy.
The game of chicken is not being played with Hamas or other Palestinian representatives, it is in play with other regional states – I.e. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, etc. The carrot being dangled is “normalization” with Israel under a common security umbrella backed by the United States. The alternative, at least as envisioned by those who have set the rules for the game, is the destabilization of the regional states after Israel ups the ante by completely destroying Rafah, prevents response to mass starvation and disease, starts caging everyone in West Bank, etc.
The premise underlying this cruel position is there is no countervailing force able to compel Israel to compromise. Therefore, actions or rhetoric at UN, ICJ, etc have no meaning or consequence in the face of hard power and the willingness to use it. The UN was of course set up originally to prevent or overcome such application of hard power – i.e. in blatant disavowal of International law – but here we are. I am personally not entirely pessimistic, as there are countervailing measures to compel Israel in place or being developed, based on applications of soft power (as well as Hezbollah and Houthis), which are also part of this game of chicken and which may yet win the day.

Posted by: jayc | Feb 21 2024 19:32 utc | 128

RE: Posted by: JB | Feb 21 2024 17:51 utc | 89
I see all the points you made. But honestly, Russia is not the USSR, and has about as much “international clout” as Brazil.
A military force, to be sure, but not much else, China & India carry much more international influence & power. Russia has tried in more than one arena to mediate a situation, and frankly, does pretty poorly at it. The Quartet, the Astana, Armenia, Serbia/Kosovo… they’re honestly not ever very successful at doing much more than getting people to talk.
They flopped at a reconciliation between Syria & Turkey.
They’re excellent at holding the doors open and making space and platforms for adversary’s to begin a process.
So, I see the energy & commitment for resolution, not because of “Israel” but because:
What is the alternative?
Regional War…there’s no other alternative to a political settlement between Israel & Hamas & Fatah.
You think Israel is going to “willingly” accept even the 1967 Resolution now when it hasn’t since 1967?
It may be internationally forced too. And it will screech…
Is that “working for Israel’s behalf”?
See, I’ve stated my position before, let the games begin, let’s the missiles fly, let the last man standing get that shotty lil piece of garbage pile, blood ridden land and let it be over.
But aside from ME Armageddon, there’s no getting “rid” of Israel or Palestine, so political settlements are being hacked out, schemes, plots & the like. Absolutely Russia is no different than any other self serving nation state, but to suggest they want to “protect Israel” when frankly, most of their friends and allies are Israel haters or simply, rejectors of Israel, I mean, let’s face it, the only ones who tolerate Israel for their own hegemonic and sinister ME aims is the U.S./UK/EU…
Anyways, just like Astana, whatever Russia moves to establish will be waylaid, by either the ME Armageddon or some US/UK b.s. that they bribe, threaten, blackmail and coerce the rest of the “international community” to go along with.
Russias just spinning their wheels, it’ll look good in what ICJ Genocide future trial come about.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 21 2024 19:33 utc | 129

Let’s use Occam’s razor: if the 1917 Bolshevik revolution never happened instead of 10 million or so dead, no one would have died.
So, yeah.
Posted by: canuck | Feb 21 2024 19:23 utc | 121
How about the American civil war? Are those corpses all the fault of the anti slavery forces?

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 21 2024 19:33 utc | 130

This will go down in history as the “Baerbock Era”.
Posted by: cortomaltese | Feb 21 2024 15:56 utc | 42
Only by those who want to erase 50 years of history and their own voting records since Regan and Thatcher.
They want to claim to be innocent bystanders. That Trump is the messiah that will save them.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Feb 21 2024 19:33 utc | 131

@ Roger | Feb 21 2024 19:29 utc | 126
And of course: If the non-Jews just left all the lands that “Israel” covets, they wouldn’t have to die either.
Perfect canuckian logic.

Posted by: malenkov | Feb 21 2024 19:37 utc | 132

“Why did the revolution happen in the first place? Nothing to do with Tsardom, serfdom or imperialist war. Nothing to do with the vicious exploitation of the working class as Russia started to industrialize in earnest. No, it’s all down to a handful of agitators and a man arriving from Germany on a train.
It amazes me that people who can have a relatively sound understanding of who is to blame for 10/7, the SMO, even 9/11, can still swallow the bullshit propaganda of the SAME VILLAINS when it comes to the Soviets. Next I suppose you’ll tell me about how Mao deliberately starved millions of peasants.”
Posted by: Honzo | Feb 21 2024 19:16 utc | 116
It amazes me that a learned chap such as your self isn’t aware that the Bolshevik revolution was financed by Wall Street.
Anyways, it was, read below:
“On the other hand, it may be observed that both the extreme right and the extreme left of the
conventional political spectrum are absolutely collectivist. The national socialist (for example,
the fascist) and the international socialist (for example, the Communist) both recommend
totalitarian politico-economic systems based on naked, unfettered political power and
individual coercion. Both systems require monopoly control of society. While monopoly
control of industries was once the objective of J. P. Morgan and J. D. Rockefeller, by the late
nineteenth century the inner sanctums of Wall Street understood that the most efficient way to
gain an unchallenged monopoly was to “go political” and make society go to work for the
monopolists — under the name of the public good and the public interest. This strategy was
detailed in 1906 by Frederick C. Howe in his Confessions of a Monopolist.1 Howe, by the way,
is also a figure in the story of the Bolshevik Revolution.
Therefore, an alternative conceptual packaging of political ideas and politico-economic
systems would be that of ranking the degree of individual freedom versus the degree of
centralized political control. Under such an ordering the corporate welfare state and socialism
are at the same end of the spectrum. Hence we see that attempts at monopoly control of society
can have different labels while owning common features.
Consequently, one barrier to mature understanding of recent history is the notion that all
capitalists are the bitter and unswerving enemies of all Marxists and socialists. This erroneous
idea originated with Karl Marx and was undoubtedly useful to his purposes. In fact, the idea is
nonsense. There has been a continuing, albeit concealed, alliance between international
political capitalists and international revolutionary socialists — to their mutual benefit. This
alliance has gone unobserved largely because historians — with a few notable exceptions — have
an unconscious Marxian bias and are thus locked into the impossibility of any such alliance
existing. The open-minded reader should bear two clues in mind: monopoly capitalists are the
bitter enemies of laissez-faire entrepreneurs; and, given the weaknesses of socialist central
planning, the totalitarian socialist state is a perfect captive market for monopoly capitalists, if
an alliance can be made with the socialist powerbrokers.
Suppose — and it is only hypothesis at this point — that American monopoly capitalists
were able to reduce a planned socialist Russia to the status of a captive technical colony?
Would not this be the logical twentieth-century internationalist extension of the Morgan
railroad monopolies and the Rockefeller petroleum trust of the late nineteenth century?
Apart from Gabriel Kolko, Murray Rothbard, and the revisionists, historians have not been
alert for such a combination of events. Historical reporting, with rare exceptions, has been
forced into a dichotomy of capitalists versus socialists. George Kennan’s monumental and
readable study of the Russian Revolution consistently maintains this fiction of a Wall StreetBolshevik
dichotomy.
Russia Leaves the War has a single incidental reference to the J.P.Morgan firm and
no reference at all to Guaranty Trust Company. Yet both organizations are
prominently mentioned in the State Department files, to which frequent reference is made in
this book, and both are part of the core of the evidence presented here. Neither self-admitted
“Bolshevik banker” Olof Aschberg nor Nya Banken in Stockholm is mentioned in Kennan yet..”(1)
1.https://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/pdf/Sutton_Wall_Street_and_the_bolshevik_revolution-5.pdf

Posted by: canuck | Feb 21 2024 19:42 utc | 133

Canuck,
What kind of trash history are you regurgitating on the Russian revolution and civil war?
The October revolution was virtually bloodless, and “the Bolsheviks” didn’t just “kill” millions of people over the next four years. That is a mendacious lie, not supported by any serious scholarship.
The combined West did invade the new Soviet Union, causing a civil war, food shortages and other dislocations that did result in great death, but that’s on the Russian White traitors and foreign invaders.
If you are a Canadian you should be aware that Canadian workers and soldiers protested Canada’s invasion of the USSR. And you should familiarize yourself with University of Montreal professor David Mandel’s work on the mass democrat and popular character of the Bolshevik revolution.
Regardless, bevin is right, and you are wrong and uninformed.

Posted by: Ringo | Feb 21 2024 19:48 utc | 134

‘Those people were a kind of solution ‘… https://thefugitivestag.com/2024/02/21/those-people-were-a-kind-of-solution/

Posted by: Geraint ap Iorwerth | Feb 21 2024 19:48 utc | 135

@Bevin & Malenkov
Great post Bevin, about the only historically sensible post here amongst the crackle of denial static. I don’t know which Toys ‘R Us Canuck bought his diploma from but he’s got the clichéd stereotype of the “it-wasn’t-6M-we’s-all-been-dooped!” down pat. If I studied structural engineering off the back of a Corn Flakes box, would you trust me to build your bridge? Yet we have to read his drivel about history.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 21 2024 19:53 utc | 136

Yes there are Myriad complex factors that created the Bolshevik Revolution. That said they did what they did.
Can one of the historians here clarify how many people they did Kill and of what demographic category?
I’m no historian and everything I’ve learned from 1960 that didn’t involve identifying mundane objects has turned out to be wrong. How disappointing.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 21 2024 19:53 utc | 137

b,
The Wikipedia entry for The Final Solution refers to an “official code name” of the Nazis, and it says that The Final Solution was a by-product of the Wannssee Conference in 1942. This narrative was concocted out of thin air. No evidence has ever been provided for the claim that Hitler made an official order to kill all the Jews within reach. Anne Frank, for example, died of typhus, not because of a “Holocaust.” She was transferred from Auschwitz to a hospital as the Nazis tried to save her life. If there was really a desire to kill all the Jews, why didn’t the Nazis just kill Anne Frank at Auschwitz? At the Auschwitz, the official death count of the US Holocaust Museum was reduced from 4 million to 1 million (itself a made-up number) while still claiming that 6 million Jews were killed overall! The gas chamber that visitors see at Auschwitz today was installed in 1948. People need to understand that the same “fake news” and disinformation we see today was being practiced during and after World War II. Unfortunately, even today’s Russians feel a need to embrace the official Holocaust narrative. All of this is not to deny that the Nazis killed hundreds of thousands of Jews.

Posted by: greg | Feb 21 2024 19:55 utc | 138

She is, like so many others up to and including the VP, a profoundly stupid DEI hire
Posted by: malenkov | Feb 21 2024 14:52 utc | 26
oh. I surmise, you imagine diversity, equity, and inclusion interrupted, or corrupted, 260 years of color-blind US American meritocracy, ingenuity, and INNOVATION of Pax Romana. Well, I suppose then, it’s that time of the month again to disabuse the present generation of innerboob comicon historiographers.
Typically, I begin by discrediting the “isolationist” fallacy
Instances of Use of United States Armed Forces Abroad, 1798-2023 (v. 41)
from which cascade all manner of cultural conceits that have seized the minds of European-american polemicists such as displayed in this recent ChatGPT monograph What History Says About Biden’s Godam, Godgiven Power to Strike Back Against the Houthis, purporting to legitimate the moral turpitude of US American’s founding vaters in less than 1200 words.

Is a United States president, in his capacity as commander-in-chief, authorized to order military strikes against a foreign enemy, or must he first seek congressional approval?
[…]
During the Constitutional Convention in 1787 [tl;drtl;dr “Continental privateers”], “never expected to hear in a Republic a motion to empower the [e]xecutive alone to declare war.” (Emphasis added.) Reflecting this consensus, James Madison successfully moved to change a draft sentence that empowered Congress to “make” war to language empowering it to “declare” war—the implication* being that “the Executive should be able to repel and not commence, war,” in the words of Connecticut delegate Roger Sherman.
This understanding prevailed in the early years of the new republic. In 1793 President George Washington informed the governor of South Carolina that he intended to launch an “offensive expedition” against the Creek Nation*, but only if Congress first determined “that measure to be proper and necessary. The Constitution vests the power of declaring war with Congress; therefore no offensive expedition of importance can be undertaken until after [Congress] shall have deliberated on the subject, and authorized such a measure.” Washington chose his words carefully, placing emphasis on “offensive.” Implicit in his formulation was the widely shared belief that a president could undertake a defensive expedition when national security* interests demanded it. Such was the framework* that Thomas Jefferson inherited when he became president in 1801 2002.
[…]
For [hundreds of] years, the Barbary States* of North Africa, comprising Morocco*, Algiers*, Tunis*, and Tripoli*, received steady “tributes”*—in reality, bribes*—from Britain [!] and France [!] to refrain from seizing [“immobilising”? freezing?] their ships and crews. It worked well for the great powers [tl;dr “The Cromwellian Protectorate and the languages of empire”], which saw seized smaller rivals like Denmark or Italian city-states* effectively excluded from Mediterranean trade [FALSE], given their inability to match these tributes [sic]. When they were British colonies, the fledgling United States enjoyed the protection of their mother country Britain. But now, as a small, independent nation, the U.S. ran the risk of losing its ships to Barbary pirates kingdoms, who captured and enslaved [imprisoned] U.S. crews throughout the 1780s and 1790s.
Under Washington and his immediate successor, John [“Sedition Act”] Adams, the U.S. shifted its policy several times, at one point appropriating $1.25 million annually—roughly one quarter of the national budget—to pay off Barbary pirates kingdoms’ waterway tolls, while also authorizing the construction of [n]aval ships capable of protecting American sailors. Some Republicans* (though not Jefferson) looked askance at Federalist * proposals to build a standing [n]avy with new taxes, but both parties generally supported the dual-track approach. Jefferson initially preferred fighting to bribing, but he came to the realization that the new nation simply lacked the resources to arm itself sufficiently and supported negotiated payoffs [sic] to secure American shipping rights*.
[…]

* catalogue of anachronism

Posted by: sl2002 | Feb 21 2024 19:56 utc | 139

oh. I surmise, you imagine diversity, equity, and inclusion interrupted, or corrupted, 260 years of color-blind US American meritocracy, ingenuity, and INNOVATION of Pax Romana.
____
No, sl2002, it means only that we now prefer to select our morons from different demographics. Or did you miss my Ronald Lauder comment earlier in this thread?

Posted by: malenkov | Feb 21 2024 20:00 utc | 140

If you are a student of fascism, during that process you identify which states qualify as such and have their ideology differs in came about.
The long history of the Jews leading up to the creation of that state leads to a certain psychological outlook. Appealing of victimization and total lack of security.
So it seemed to me that the early history of this non-state only fed that sense of peril and fear.
All of this creates some real issues with self-esteem both personal and social. And I have seen many instances where there is a narcissistic level of self love to compensate. And the poorly interpreted and distorted religious Supremacy was always being pushed by someone.
So while the US and UK were in my books becoming pre-fascist, Israel was my clearest example of a fascist state five years ago. And a genocide is one of the things that fascist states do.
So there seems to be a lot of agreement that we created this monster we call Israel. I’d like to hear what the bar thinks of my take on this. IE educate me. Thanks

Posted by: David G Horsman | Feb 21 2024 20:01 utc | 141

There is no end to depraved statements to add to the genocide court file that humanity is building.
I am personally proud of the ruins of Gaza, and that every baby, even 80 years from now, will tell their grandchildren what the Jews did”.
Stated May Golan, the Israeli Minister for Equality and Advancement of Women, during her speech in the Knesset, advocating for the expulsion of a member who showed compassion with Palestinians and opposed the Israeli war in Gaza
This statement is deplorable considering the woman and her government title. How do you advocate for women while gleefully announcing harming families even babies. The decent human in me some days has extreme trouble processing this. I imagine I’m not alone here. The urge to want to become these same types and and destroy them to make it stop I think is where we all are. The strength is to not become them no matter the provocations. It’s a hard mental path.

Posted by: Hankster | Feb 21 2024 20:01 utc | 142

The invention of the internet was a disaster for human knowledge. History is a practice; one learns how to read evidence, assess and interpret narratives and texts, understand form, content and occasion. Like medicine, engineering and architecture, history requires training. One does not simply pick up a brush and produce a Kandinsky or Picasso. One studies in the formal framework within which the discipline (think on this word…) reproduces itself. This does not lead to dogmatism, but rather actively enables new forms of thought and exploration—”I studied art for 25 years in order to be able to paint like a child”.
The internet on the other hand is full of children who splash paint, revile formal knowledge, and think they’re Picasso. It’s like giving a machine gun to a monkey.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 21 2024 20:01 utc | 143

Posted by: malenkov | Feb 21 2024 20:00 utc | 140
Who is “we” this week at MoA?

Posted by: sln2002 | Feb 21 2024 20:03 utc | 144

“They don’t call Britain Perfidious Albion for nothing.”
Posted by: Jane | Feb 21 2024 19:26 utc | 124
Good post.
As for Perfidious Albion I read somewhere, too lazy to find the source, but anyways apparently India was taken over from 1757 (1) till it regained its independence in 1948 the Indian economy, per capita there was no growth-for almost 200 years. Perfidious Albion strikes again.
1. 1757 (some of it) when at the Battle of Plassey led by by Sir Robert Clive who then took all of the loot back to the City:
or a century, the East India Company conquered, subjugated and plundered vast tracts of south Asia. The lessons of its brutal reign have never been more relevant
“William Dalrymple
Wed 4 Mar 2015 05.59 GMT
One of the very first Indian words to enter the English language was the Hindustani slang for plunder: “loot”. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, this word was rarely heard outside the plains of north India until the late 18th century, when it suddenly became a common term across Britain. To understand how and why it took root and flourished in so distant a landscape, one need only visit Powis Castle.
The last hereditary Welsh prince, Owain Gruffydd ap Gwenwynwyn, built Powis castle as a craggy fort in the 13th century; the estate was his reward for abandoning Wales to the rule of the English monarchy. But its most spectacular treasures date from a much later period of English conquest and appropriation: Powis is simply awash with loot from India, room after room of imperial plunder, extracted by the East India Company in the 18th century.
There are more Mughal artefacts stacked in this private house in the Welsh countryside than are on display at any one place in India – even the National Museum in Delhi. The riches include hookahs of burnished gold inlaid with empurpled ebony; superbly inscribed spinels and jewelled daggers; gleaming rubies the colour of pigeon’s blood and scatterings of lizard-green emeralds. There are talwars set with yellow topaz, ornaments of jade and ivory; silken hangings, statues of Hindu gods and coats of elephant armour….”(2)
2.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/04/east-india-company-original-corporate-raiders

Posted by: canuck | Feb 21 2024 20:04 utc | 145

“I’d like it if, when all this is over, Jews, Christians, Muslims and those of Zoroaster all can visit Jerusalem. And, should years from now a new religion be born that is also based upon the book, they too.
Posted by: Passerby | Feb 21 2024 19:04 utc | 109”
I’d like it if, when all of this mass murder is over (but I won’t hold my breath), Jews, Christians, and Muslims, and Mormons (why did you leave them out?) and whatever this Zoroaster stuff is, would all finally for once in their lives READ “the book” and take two whole seconds to THINK, and realize that Moses was not only a blatant liar and fraud, but also a mass-murdering war-mongering xenophobic psychopathic son of a bitch who deserves no more respect than any other mass-murdering war-mongering xenophobic psychopathic liar and fraud. Then, after they all manage to read it for the first time in their lives, and think for the first time in their lives, they’ll see that all this made-up ‘deity’ crap is the absolute worst basis for a system of morality that humans have ever tried, and heave it all in the garbage where it has belonged for thirty centuries. Once that happens, people will go to Jerusalem to laugh at human stupidity. Or maybe they’ll go to India instead, once their despicable myths about reincarnation and out-castes (dalits) gets heaved into the garbage where it also belongs.

Posted by: Dalit | Feb 21 2024 20:05 utc | 146

I think you are confusing a generic land dispute with a war of genocide. Both can kill people and both can be cruel, but land disputes have been with us forever and will be with us forever. (See, Crimea, Donbas, etc.) The Israelis may want Gaza and the West Bank land and may want to push whoever is there off. But don’t fool yourself that that is the equivalent of a genocide or a final solution. Wanting to push those particular Arabs off that particular land is not the same as wanting to kill all Arabs wherever you can get your hands on them just because you want them dead.
Posted by: tommylotto | Feb 21 2024 16:04 utc | 45
=============
You are right—the two situations are not exactly alike.
No two situations ever are. But the same fight over land and the same visceral hatred—whether of the Jews/Romas or the Palestinians— seem to be present.
You seem to leave out the Lebensraum aspect of the final solution: It was not the first solution. Earlier solutions were to get the Jews to leave Germany. (As the Zionists tried to get the Pals to just depart Palestine peacefully, and leave all the land the Zios.)
The Final Solution, OTOH, related specifically to the situation in eastern Europe, specifically Poland and parts of Russia, where the Germans needed Lebensraum. There were simply too many Jews in those areas for emigration, voluntary or forced, to be feasible.
Wannsee Protocol:

“At the beginning of the discussion Chief of the Security Police and of the SD, SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Heydrich, reported that the Reich Marshal had appointed him delegate for the preparations for the final solution of the Jewish question in Europe and pointed out that this discussion had been called for the purpose of clarifying fundamental questions. The wish of the Reich Marshal to have a draft sent to him concerning organizational, factual and material interests in relation to the final solution of the Jewish question in Europe makes necessary an initial common action of all central offices immediately concerned with these questions in order to bring their general activities into line.
The Reichsfuhrer-SS and the Chief of the German Police (Chief of the Security Police and the SD) was entrusted with the official central handling of the final solution of the Jewish question without regard to geographic borders.
The Chief of the Security Police and the SD then gave a short report of the struggle which has been carried on thus far against this enemy [the Jews], the essential points being the following:
a) the expulsion of the Jews from every sphere of life of the German people,
b) the expulsion of the Jews from the living space of the German people.
In carrying out these efforts, an increased and planned acceleration of the emigration of the Jews from Reich territory was started, as the only possible present solution.
By order of the Reich Marshal, a Reich Central Office for Jewish Emigration was set up in January 1939 and the Chief of the Security Police and SD was entrusted with the management. Its most important tasks were
a) to make all necessary arrangements for the preparation for an increased emigration of the Jews,
b) to direct the flow of emigration,
c) to speed the procedure of emigration in each individual case.
The aim of all this was to cleanse German living space of Jews in a legal manner.
All the offices realized the drawbacks of such enforced accelerated emigration. For the time being they had, however, tolerated it on account of the lack of other possible solutions of the problem.
The work concerned with emigration was, later on, not only a German problem, but also a problem with which the authorities of the countries to which the flow of emigrants was being directed would have to deal. Financial difficulties, such as the demand by various foreign governments for increasing sums of money to be presented at the time of the landing, the lack of shipping space, increasing restriction of entry permits, or the cancelling of such, increased extraordinarily the difficulties of emigration. In spite of these difficulties, 537,000 Jews were sent out of the country between the takeover of power and the deadline of 31 October 1941. Of these
approximately 360,000 were in Germany proper on 30 January 1933
approximately 147,000 were in Austria (Ostmark) on 15 March 1939
approximately 30,000 were in the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia on 15 March 1939.
The Jews themselves, or their Jewish political organizations, financed the emigration. In order to avoid impoverished Jews’ remaining behind, the principle was followed that wealthy Jews have to finance the emigration of poor Jews; this was arranged by imposing a suitable tax, i.e., an emigration tax, which was used for financial arrangements in connection with the emigration of poor Jews and was imposed according to income.[Was this part of the Transfer Deal with the Zionists?]
Apart from the necessary Reichsmark exchange, foreign currency had to presented at the time of landing. In order to save foreign exchange held by Germany, the foreign Jewish financial organizations were – with the help of Jewish organizations in Germany – made responsible for arranging an adequate amount of foreign currency. Up to 30 October 1941, these foreign Jews donated a total of around 9,500,000 dollars.
In the meantime the Reichsfuehrer-SS and Chief of the German Police had prohibited emigration of Jews due to the dangers of an emigration in wartime and due to the possibilities of the East.[[This is not entirely clear to me]]
III. Another possible solution of the problem has now taken the place of emigration, i.e. the evacuation of the Jews to the East [Euphemism alert], provided that the Fuehrer gives the appropriate approval in advance.
These actions are, however, only to be considered provisional, but practical experience is already being collected which is of the greatest importance in relation to the future final solution of the Jewish question.
Approximately 11 million Jews will be involved in the final solution of the European Jewish question, distributed as follows among the individual countries: . . . [table follows]
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/wannsee.asp –Wannsee Protocol
More discussion follows, including this:

“Under proper guidance, in the course of the final solution the Jews are to be allocated for appropriate labor in the East. Able-bodied Jews, separated according to sex, will be taken in large work columns to these areas for work on roads, in the course of which action doubtless a large portion will be eliminated by natural causes.
The possible final remnant will, since it will undoubtedly consist of the most resistant portion, have to be treated accordingly, because it is the product of natural selection and would, if released, act as a the seed of a new Jewish revival (see the experience of history.)
In the course of the practical execution of the final solution, Europe will be combed through from west to east. Germany proper, including the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia, will have to be handled first due to the housing problem and additional social and political necessities.
The evacuated Jews will first be sent, group by group, to so-called transit ghettos, from which they will be transported to the East. . . .

More discussion follows.

Posted by: Jane | Feb 21 2024 20:07 utc | 147

Let’s use Occam’s razor: if the 1917 Bolshevik revolution never happened instead of 10 million or so dead, no one would have died.
So, yeah.
Posted by: canuck | Feb 21 2024 19:23 utc | 121
_____
Nobody? seriously? Did Kerensky sign Brest-Litovsk? Did he consistently refuse to oppose opposition with violence?
Also, I don’t think “Occam’s Razor” means what you think it does. You can’t use it to prove an unprovable hypothetical, for instance.
Posted by: malenkov | Feb 21 2024 19:32 utc | 127
If there was no revolution in Russia in 1917 no one would have died from the revolution;
The Bolsheviks created the revolution,
Therefore the deaths are aa result of the Bolsheviks.
I think that’s called a syllogism -I’m getting old and forgetful and grumpy.
Look, buddy, let’s agree to disagree-if you want the last shot-here- I give it to you.
At least you do what you say you do, straight up-not like bevin who will accuse (“canuk is an apologist for Hitler”) but then runs away when he has no evidence of his slander…
Later.

Posted by: canuck | Feb 21 2024 20:12 utc | 148

We people consultation: Pick one.
(a) When in Rome, do as the Romans?
(b) Render to Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s?
(c) Or none of the above

Posted by: sln2002 | Feb 21 2024 20:12 utc | 149

Posted by: Jane | Feb 21 2024 20:07 utc | 147
Thanks for this valuable post. You draw out the parallel notions of Lebensraum well. The East was also meant for a settler oligarchy for which Hitler imagined Sparta as a model I believe.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 21 2024 20:13 utc | 150

Ringo | Feb 21 2024 19:48 utc | 134
“Russian White traitors”
How do you figure the Whites who were fighting for traditional Russia, whatever faults they had, were “traitors”, while the Reds, who imported a totally alien Western ideology which Marx himself (except for one self-contradictory letter toward the end of his life) always said would be totally inappropriate for a country like Russia, were not?
I take it you must consider the Putin government to be traitorous or close to it, while the likes of Chubais and Navalny are the “real” Russians.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Feb 21 2024 20:14 utc | 151

In response to #142:
AT LAST (D H Lawrence c 1929)
When things get very bad, they pass beyond tragedy,
And then the only thing we can do is to keep quite still
And guard the last treasure of the soul, our sanity.
Since poor individuals that we are,
If we lose our sanity
we lose that which keeps us individual
distinct from chaos.
But if we lose our sanity …
We can but howl the lugubrious howl of idiots,
The howl of the utterly lost …

Posted by: Geraint ap Iorwerth | Feb 21 2024 20:17 utc | 152

It is amazing to see declarations of the Russian Revolution without the hand of the Brits and Germans.
Queen Vicky’s large brood of squabbling and petty Royals in Britain, Germany and Russia. Along with the very practical decision of Germany to give a free and secure ride, along with a suitcase of spending money to their man Lenin. Too bad for Germany that all the lands Russia ceded to them had to be given back in a few years to a born-again Poland.

Posted by: kupkee | Feb 21 2024 20:31 utc | 153

@ Dalit | Feb 21 2024 20:05 utc | 146
My sentiments exactly, although it’s quite possible that there was no historical Moses. However, if you think of “Moses” as the collection of genocidalist death-culters who compiled what the Christers call the “Old Testament,” your point remains valid.
@ greg | Feb 21 2024 19:55 utc | 138
I’m having difficulty following your, umm, “argument.” Two examples. (1) Just because there’s no surviving document signed by Mister 88 saying “Exterminate all Jews” doesn’t mean that such a policy never existed, nor does it prove that Mister Gröfaz was unaware of the policy or didn’t approve of it. (2) Let’s assume for the sake of argument that “only” 1 million Jews died at Auschwitz. This in itself does not render the total estimate of 6 million incredible. There were other Vernichtungslager, you know, in addition to regular old KZs where people, including Jews, were killed or otherwise died of overwork, neglect, etc.; and untold tens of thousands of Jews were murdered on site as the Wehrmacht invaded Eastern Europe.
@ sln2002 | Feb 21 2024 20:03 utc | 144
Seriously?
@ canuck | Feb 21 2024 20:12 utc | 148
“The Bolsheviks created the revolution,” as a statement, stands on awfully shaky ground. After all, theirs was the second of two revolutions, and one can compellingly argue that misrule by the Empire and the Kerensky regime made the Bolshevik revolution inevitable. Again: Using your argument, one can say that in the case of every revolution, the responsible party for all bloodshed falls on the head of those revolting.
@ Flying Dutchman | Feb 21 2024 20:14 utc | 151
Did the “traditional Russia” of Nikolai II, Wrangel, Denikin, etc. have an inalienable right to exist and survive?

Posted by: malenkov | Feb 21 2024 20:32 utc | 154

arthurdecco (113).
I refuse to believe that ALL Jewish people are bad people, the Zionist ideology is driving the current genocide of the oppressed Palestinians of which decent Jewish folk are up against.

Posted by: Republicofscotland | Feb 21 2024 20:36 utc | 155

“The invention of the internet was a disaster for human knowledge. History is a practice; one learns how to read evidence, assess and interpret narratives and texts, understand form, content and occasion. Like medicine, engineering and architecture, history requires training. One does not simply pick up a brush and produce a Kandinsky or Picasso. One studies in the formal framework within which the discipline (think on this word…) reproduces itself. This does not lead to dogmatism, but rather actively enables new forms of thought and exploration—”I studied art for 25 years in order to be able to paint like a child”.
The internet on the other hand is full of children who splash paint, revile formal knowledge, and think they’re Picasso. It’s like giving a machine gun to a monkey.”
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 21 2024 20:01 utc | 143
Sounds like you mixed up the MOA bar crowd with your young, impressionable students you preach to- so make it even more pretentious [is that possible? editor] I set your sermon to iambic pentameter with my Walmart chapGPT and it worked not bad:
Olympian Pretension (or:A View from An Ivory Tower)(1)
The emergence of the internet, a vast terrain,
A disaster for knowledge, some do proclaim.
For history, a craft, requires due skill,
To read, assess, interpret, with a will.
Like medicine or engineering’s art,
History demands training, a formal start.
One cannot simply wield a brush with ease,
And craft a Kandinsky or Picasso, please.
Years of study in the discipline’s frame,
Reveal the secrets, the knowledge to claim.
Not to breed dogma, but to spur the mind,
To new horizons, exploration kind.
Yet on the internet, a different sight,
Where children splash paint, their skill in flight.
Reviling formal knowledge, they display,
A false sense of mastery, led astray.
It’s like a machine gun in a monkey’s hand,
A chaotic scene, hard to understand.
For true wisdom comes with careful thought,
Not with reckless splashing, chaos wrought.
chat GPT _ Title by canuk
No royalties will be paid to the original authour.
1. Inspired by two Tyskies ($2.50 each 500 ml) and 1/2 bottle of my red staple lately: Monasterio de las Vinas, Gran Reserva, 2016-13.5 % Spain-$19.99 Canadian

Posted by: canuck | Feb 21 2024 20:40 utc | 156

Sure their are plenty of garden variety bad people, i.e. Macron, Johnson, Bill Clinton, Obama but their arent that many deeply criminal psychopaths that are able to acquire massive power and change the world, ie. Hitler, Cheney, Netanyahoo or Stalin, (2 Dulleses) and if those individuals had not acquired power the world would be very different. We are ruled by psychopaths individuals, who corrupt systems, and the next psychopath picks up where the last one left off.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Feb 21 2024 19:16 utc | 118
=============
I wonder how you would classify the mediocrity Truman who let himself be bought by Zionists in the USA in return for recognizing the State of Israel two hours after Ben Gurion’s arbitrary declaration of the state?
Also, how would you classify Ben Gurion (David Gruen) and Jabotinsky? They all participated in creating a monster, yet Truman was surely a banal mediocrity who seems not to have understood the horrifying and huge consequences of recognizing the State of Israel and bombing Hiroshima and Nagazaki.
Jabotinsky, Ben Gurion, Begin, Shamir—they seem more like the psychopathic monster types.
Esp. when one considers the very plausible possibility that Ben Gurion played a role in the JFK murder.

Posted by: Jane | Feb 21 2024 20:40 utc | 157

But when the National Socialists come along, despite whatever inadequacy they exhibited in confronting the problem of modernity and technology as Heidegger put forth, and fought against this sweep of history and the consolidation of power into fewer and fewer hands, of course the bourgeois sensibility the world over would have a total meltdown at such a challenge. [ . . . ]
The National Socialists (before Russia challenging the west currently) were our last and best chance against this sweep.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 21 2024 17:16 utc | 79
_____
I’ve rarely seen such a compelling argument in favor of modernism and technology, and for that matter materialism as opposed to spirituality, as the one you and Herr Dr.phil. Heidegger have proposed. My compliments, I guess.
I did, however, get a chuckle out of the notion that the Nazis “fought against . . . the consolidation of power into fewer and fewer hands.” Perhaps you meant to say that the supremely authoritarian and repressive Third Reich was in reality quite messy? Indeed it was — Hitler had a fondness for establishing agencies with overlapping authority in order to render himself all the more indispensable as final authority — but this doesn’t exactly equate to power to the people, let alone plurality of thought.

Posted by: malenkov | Feb 21 2024 20:45 utc | 158

@flying Dutchman
Marxism is intrinsic to any and all societies of capitalism. It is the theory of and for the working class, wherever it exists as a result of capitalist social relations. It is material reality made conscious.
Have you not read Lenin’s monumental 1899 study of the development of capitalism in Russia?
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1899/devel/
You and the likes of Canuck are suffering in a reactionary framework in which all things capitalism and nationalism are normalized and eternalized, and in which Marxism becomes exogenous and “foreign.”
You simply fail to understand that capitalism is a social relation of exploitation (understood social scientifically as the difference between wages and value added in production, thus generating surplus value and the material basis for class struggle) and that revolutionary struggles are thus inevitable and will triumph again.
There is, then, no salvation in a “third way” of statism, nationalism, or Putinism.
In the long-run, the class struggle will be inexorable, and history will continue until we create a planned economy for human need (socialism) not private profit.

Posted by: Ringo | Feb 21 2024 20:55 utc | 159

FFS!
Nazis and commies, again. (Its either that or WW II or theoretical forms of communism), and as always, every off topic comment a novel!
Already 150 comments in a thread about Palestine, and about only 40 are on topic.
Just remember, b doesn’t ban for life. Try again in a couple weeks.

Posted by: UWDude | Feb 21 2024 20:55 utc | 160

Posted by: canuck | Feb 21 2024 20:04 utc | 145
Owain (ap) Gruffydd ap Gwenwynwyn wasn’t the last hereditary Welsh prince.

Posted by: Siddhartha | Feb 21 2024 21:01 utc | 161

“”The invention of the internet was a disaster for human knowledge. History is a practice;”
Patroklus 143
==================
Likewise, the printing press.
Not to mention the photocopying machine and the scanner!
As for language-learning apps–zum Teufel!
Seriously, IMHO a big problem with the Internet for the study and writing of history is that younger historians fail to document any of their work if it is not available online. The latter condition seems to them a valid excuse for not citing sources.
It may also be that some younger putative historians have not developed the lust of the hunt for new archives to sink their teeth into but think everything of interest or relevance is available online.
In fact, this seems to be the case with some armchair “HoloHoax” historians who can’t read even online material if it has not been translated into English, not to mention the plethora of material in archives of different sorts.

Posted by: Jane | Feb 21 2024 21:01 utc | 162

FFS!
Nazis and commies, again. (Its either that or WW II or theoretical forms of communism), and as always, every off topic comment a novel!
Already 150 comments in a thread about Palestine, and about only 40 are on topic.
Just remember, b doesn’t ban for life. Try again in a couple weeks.
Posted by: UWDude | Feb 21 2024 20:55 utc | 160
____
Okay, let’s talk about whether the extermination of the Gaza Palestinians and/or the civilian/military infrastructure of the Occupation aggravates or alleviates global warming, which doesn’t exist anyway of course. 😉
But seriously, I’m unaware of any statement from the site owner regarding the (im)permanence of site bans.

Posted by: malenkov | Feb 21 2024 21:10 utc | 163

What is the matter with so many people’s understanding of the English language, crossed with their having been sucked in to 80 years of Jewish propaganda.
Jews do not own the words “final” nor “solution” nor “holocaust”, for that matter. They can be used in many contexts without referencing historical and persecution sensibilities.
The indefinite article “a” refers to a noun used in reference to a non-specific entity.
The definite article “the” refers to a noun used in reference to one particular entity.
Capital “The” is used for proper nouns to imply specific importance and respect.
Yes, The Holocaust, and The Final Solution, with capitals, refer to that dreadful piece of Nazi genocide 1939-1945. But a holocaust, and a final solution (non capitals) can refer to many things non-Jewish. A house burned down near me one night, killing a family of 6. That was a fkn holocaust.
So get over it you chronic virtue signallers. The woman used the term perfectly acceptably, probably without irony, certainly without sensitivity — but who cares. There is no need to psychoanalyse her reference except for being a language smartarse or a Jew-baiter. She just said what she meant, in lower case.
Btw, I have been battling termites under my verandah for years, and this week I’m tearing it down as the final solution.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Feb 21 2024 21:10 utc | 164

Posted by: canuck | Feb 21 2024 20:40 utc | 156
It figures you like ChatGPT (not worth trying to write something yourself?). You didn’t consider a word I wrote, you just pumped it back into the internet. You are the joke that writes itself but no one’s laughing. Please try to have some dignity.

Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 21 2024 21:14 utc | 165

True. Sadly, an ancient afro-american truism holds that black faces in high-places indicates, white folks have or are about to abandon diminishing returns from some enterprise. (Wharton and Chenault prove the rule, but that’s another story.)
Posted by: sln2002 | Feb 21 2024 18:22 utc | 98
https://youtube.com/shorts/GvL0I1eDpBc?si=_48SOxpshXQGlJtT
Don’t worry, someone else is clearly in charge…

Posted by: Delhiliterally | Feb 21 2024 21:22 utc | 166

FFS!
Nazis and commies, again. (Its either that or WW II or theoretical forms of communism), and as always, every off topic comment a novel!
Already 150 comments in a thread about Palestine, and about only 40 are on topic.
Just remember, b doesn’t ban for life. Try again in a couple weeks.
Posted by: UWDude |
I get it. You want to stay in topic, but Nazis v commies is a historical conflict that was never resolved and until it is, we all have to deal with it. Capitalism is also an unresolved issue of the 20th century that comes up inevitably when we discuss any particular topic. Ignoring all of this to stay narrowly on topic is just myopia. Like focusing on a tree and if ignoring the forest of which it is an component part.
History is a wicked step mother, some wise guy once said. It will drill us on these social political questions until the solution is found.
And this is real democracy, so everyone can contribute so long as they do so honestly and clearly.
Just ignore it if you don’t like it. If you disagree with something, say so. Nice and easy.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 21 2024 21:22 utc | 167

@Posted by: Jane | Feb 21 2024 21:01 utc | 162
Are you still here?
Your ears should be burning.

Posted by: librul | Feb 21 2024 21:25 utc | 168

malenkov | Feb 21 2024 20:32 utc | 154
“Did the “traditional Russia” of Nikolai II, Wrangel, Denikin, etc. have an inalienable right to exist and survive?”
Of course not. (No more or less than Bolshevism ever did.) But those who fought for it certainly weren’t “traitors”.
(And while listing its supporters, don’t forget the overwhelming majority of the Russian people, the primary workers.)

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Feb 21 2024 21:25 utc | 169

BREAKING:
⚡ 🇮🇱 Israeli Knesset member Hanoch Milbitsky:
“You will die, your children will die, your grandchildren will die, there won’t be a Palestinian state, there will never be,”
He shouted at Arab member Ayman Odeh following the voting regarding the possible recognition of a Palestinian state, which was refused by 99 out of 120 members.

https://twitter.com/Megatron_ron/status/1760384955962605722

Posted by: unimperator | Feb 21 2024 21:26 utc | 170

Ringo | Feb 21 2024 20:55 utc | 159
Every word of your sophomoric doctrinaire spewing was old hat to me decades ago. And I’ve hated industrial capitalism my whole life, including its “communist” version.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Feb 21 2024 21:27 utc | 171

Patroklos @165: “It figures you like ChatGPT…”
But of course. It’s like a brother to him.
(Please forgive my assumptions with the pronouns)

Posted by: William Gruff | Feb 21 2024 21:27 utc | 172

meanwhile back at the ranch
the glorious and noble Houthis…..
https://twitter.com/ejmalrai/status/1760182128308895848
A small & poor country that has suffered 7 years of war and destruction, #Yemen Ansar Allah, is fighting the #US and #UK for #Gaza and its children. It is the first to launch ballistic missiles against #US warships and soon hundreds of Yemeni underwater sea drones will join in.

Posted by: michaelj72 | Feb 21 2024 21:29 utc | 173

She probably knows very very little about WW2 or the first Holocaust …
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 21 2024 16:05 utc | 48

Ah, no. 1935 was definitely NOT “the first holocaust”, far from it. Below is a long Wiki copy, but everyone should read it before they ever use the word holocaust again.
>>>*
The word “holocaust” originally derived from the Koine Greek word holokauston, meaning “a completely (holos) burnt (kaustos) sacrificial offering,” or “a burnt sacrifice offered to a god.” In Hellenistic religion, gods of the earth and underworld received dark animals, which were offered by night and burnt in full. The word holocaust was later adopted in Greek translations of the Torah to refer to the olah,[3] standard communal and individual sacrificial burnt offerings that Jews were required[4] to make in the times of the Temple in Jerusalem. In its Latin form, holocaustum, the term was first used with specific reference to a massacre of Jewish people by the chroniclers Roger of Howden[5] and Richard of Devizes in England in the 1190s.[6]
The earliest use of the word holocaust to denote a massacre recorded by the Oxford English Dictionary dates from 1833 when the journalist Leitch Ritchie, describing the wars of Louis VII of France[citation needed], wrote figuratively that he “once made a holocaust of thirteen hundred persons in a church” where they had gone to seek refuge when the town of Vitry-le-François was burned by Louis’ troops in 1142. The English poet John Milton had used the word as a poetic description of the self-immolation of a phoenix in his 1671 poem Samson Agonistes.[7][8][9]
In the late 19th century, holocaust was used in 1895 by the American newspaper The New York Times to describe the Ottoman massacre of Armenian Christians.[10] In the early twentieth century, possibly the first to use the term was journalist Melville Chater in 1925, to describe the burning and sacking of Smyrna in 1922 in the context of the Turkish genocide against Anatolian Christians.[11][12] Winston Churchill (in 1929 [11][13]) and other contemporary writers used it before World War II to describe the Armenian genocide of World War I.[14] The Armenian Genocide is referenced in the title of a 1922 poem “The Holocaust” (published as a booklet) and the 1923 book “The Smyrna Holocaust” deals with arson and massacre of Armenians.[15] Before the Second World War, the possibility of another war was referred to as “another holocaust” (that is, a repeat of the First World War). With reference to the events of the war, writers in English from 1945 used the term in relation to events such as the fire-bombing of Dresden or Hiroshima, or the effects of a nuclear war, although from the 1950s onwards, it was increasingly used in English to refer to the Nazi genocide of the European Jews (or Judeocide).
By the late 1950s, documents translated from Hebrew sometimes used the word “Holocaust” to translate “Shoah” as the Nazi Judeocide. This use can be found as early as May 23, 1943 in The New York Times, on page E6, in an article by Julian Meltzer, referring to feelings in the British mandate of Palestine about Jewish immigration of refugees from “the Nazi holocaust.”[16]
One significant early use was in a 1958 recollection by Leslie Hardman, the first Jewish British Army Chaplain to enter Bergen-Belsen concentration camp in April 1945, where he ministered to survivors and supervised the burial of about 20,000 victims,
Towards me came what seemed to be the remnants of a holocaust – a staggering mass of blackened skin and bones, held together somehow with filthy rags. ‘My God, the dead walk’, I cried aloud, but I did not recognise my voice… [peering] at the double star, the emblem of Jewry on my tunic – one poor creature touched and then stroked the badge of my faith, and finding that it was real murmured, ‘Rabbiner, Rabbiner’.[17]
By the late 1960s, the term was starting to be used in this sense without qualification. Nora Levin’s 1968 book The Holocaust: The Destruction of European Jewry, 1933-1945 explains the meaning in its subtitle, but uses the unmoderated phrase “The Holocaust”. An article called “Moral Trauma and the Holocaust” was published in the New York Times on February 12, 1968.[18] However, it was not until the late 1970s that the Nazi genocide became the generally accepted conventional meaning of the word, when used unqualified and with a capital letter, a usage that also spread to other languages for the same period.[19] The 1978 television miniseries titled “Holocaust” and starring Meryl Streep is often cited as the principal contributor to establishing the current usage in the wider culture.[20] “Holocaust” was selected as the Association for the German Language’s Word of the Year in 1979, reflecting increased public consciousness of the term.
The term became increasingly widespread as a synonym for “genocide” in the last decades of the 20th century to refer to mass murders in the form “X holocaust” (e.g. “Rwandan holocaust”). Examples are Rwanda, Ukraine under Stalin, and the actions of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia.
Objections to the usage of “Holocaust” for Nazi extermination of Jews:
Some people find the use of “holocaust” for the WWII-period Nazi extermination of Jews unacceptable, on account of the theological and historical nature of the word “holocaust”.[21] The American historian Walter Laqueur (whose parents were murdered in the Holocaust) has argued that the term “Holocaust” is a “singularly inappropriate” term for the genocide of the Jews as it implies a “burnt offering” to God.[22] Laqueur wrote, “It was not the intention of the Nazis to make a sacrifice of this kind and the position of the Jews was not that of a ritual victim”.[22] The British historian Geoff Eley wrote in a 1982 essay entitled “Holocaust History” that he thought the term Holocaust implies “a certain mystification, an insistence on the uniquely Jewish character of the experience”.[22] <<< And none of that excuses the massive PR operation since WWII of Jews to effectively own the word ... or to own the de-capitalised words final + solution for their own exclusive reference.

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Feb 21 2024 21:32 utc | 174

Now would be a good time to ask the Palestinians if the good guys won WW2.
But we know what they would say: “Incoming!”
In the meantime, they are the Melians caught between the end of an age and the beginning of another. The possibility for a cataclysm is pretty good now.
Re: Ahenobarus and the civil war being fought on purely anti-slavery grounds…good catch! Parallels are there for everyone to see, but we have to go through trained commisars for publishing approval, I suppose.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Feb 21 2024 21:35 utc | 175

I once had a German interlocutor in the course of negotiations say, “So, we have a final solution.”
When I asked, somewhat sardonically, if Germans were allowed to use that expression, she replied, “Yes, we had a first solution, then a second solution, but now we have a final solution.” IOW, the phrase itself transcended the Holocaust in German life.

Posted by: Cato the Uncensored | Feb 21 2024 21:41 utc | 176

Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Feb 21 2024 21:32 utc | 174
Semantics. Any substantive opposition to my comments or I’d this just an effort to bolster the imperial whore Greenfield?
Yes, plenty of massacres in history. Thanks for that. However the last word on Holocaust in the modern world was that of WW2 and of course the thinking of the Nazis then is reflected in the current actions of the Zionazis today.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 21 2024 21:43 utc | 177

Israel has traumatized all children in Gaza, Norwegian NGO says
The Norwegian Refugee Council (NRC) has warned that Israel’s bloody campaign in the besieged Gaza Strip has traumatized all the children in the Palestinian territory.
#GazaGenocide
@PressTV

https://t.me/presstv/88378

Posted by: Norwegian | Feb 21 2024 21:45 utc | 178

@ Norwegian | Feb 21 2024 21:45 utc | 178
In which case I hope the Norwegian Refugee Council does not, for the sake of its property and the safety of its workers, have an office or personnel in Gaza.

Posted by: malenkov | Feb 21 2024 21:46 utc | 179

The war will end one day. Russia and China must supply effective weapons to Palestinians to defend themselves. Israel has weapons of mass destruction. If Palestinians had biological weapons and means of delivery, there would not be genocide again. The world will be much more peaceful.

Posted by: Jason | Feb 21 2024 21:47 utc | 180

Ringo | Feb 21 2024 20:55 utc | 159
Every word of your sophomoric doctrinaire spewing was old hat to me decades ago. And I’ve hated industrial capitalism my whole life, including its “communist” version.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Feb 21 2024 21:27 utc | 171
Ah, it wasn’t so bad of a comment, Dutchman. Me think the lady doth protest too much!
But communist industrial capitalism? Where was that practiced?

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Feb 21 2024 21:47 utc | 181

David G Horsman | Feb 21 2024 19:53 utc | 137–
Can one of the historians here clarify how many people they did Kill and of what demographic category?
No, your Q cannot be objectively answered–nobody was keeping score at the time. Some impressive historical statistical studies were done by the USSR after WW2; Martyanov just cited one of the best in his “My Response” video.
Today, the precise numbers don’t matter; what matters are the events themselves and the thinking that brought them forth. The Outlaw US Empire killed millions during its Anti-Communist Crusade from 1945-1990–certainly Genocide in the cases of Korea, Southeast Asia, and Indonesia. A similar argument can be made for Central and Southern America where US Death Squads have operated since the 1850s. How did Teddy Roosevelt secure “Panama” from Colombia? What happened in Nicaragua well before the Sandinistas? Operation Condor. Who backed the Brazilian and Argentinean Generals and their killing sprees? Allende’s Chile. The list continues into the 21st Century without Communism as the scapegoat. Gitmo still holds innocent people.
Which nation is the Master Criminal here? Yes, the Zionists are like Nazis, but there’re other national entities that were/are just as bad. The lauded Sir Francis Bacon advocated the genocide of his fellow Britons, but is that effort ever associated with him? How many did the capital-raising policy of Enclosure kill, not just within the UK but all Europe? How did Serfdom arise? How did the Catholic Church become the biggest landowner in Europe? Those are just a few on the many questions that could be asked relative to the topic of mass killings in pursuit of gain. Note I omitted Africa’s experience.
The point is there’s no excuse for mass killing. Period. It must be prevented, which is why the Genocide Convention exists. Why have the Zionists been allowed to get away with killing @30,000 already? The major nations with the capabilities to cause it to halt have refused to do so, and that’s not just China and Russia. Only a select few peoples are upholding/honoring their commitment to doing what they can to stop Genocide. All the rest by doing nothing have actually chosen to abet the event.

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 21 2024 21:50 utc | 182

The fallout from the US-led genocides in Palestine, Syria and Yemen is very serious in Muslim countries. Russia and China must use it to their military (not just diplomatic) advantage.
Plenty of aggrieved people are in industry, military and governance in NATO countries. They can be used for industrial and military espionage, etc. They can also be agents for the logistical support to deploy biological, chemical, microwave devices, electronic devices, etc.
These byproducts of the Palestinian genocide should not go begging.

Posted by: Jason | Feb 21 2024 21:53 utc | 183

If Palestinians had biological weapons and means of delivery, there would not be genocide again. The world will be much more peaceful.
Posted by: Jason | Feb 21 2024 21:47 utc | 180
____
True, I guess, because such weapons, assuming effectiveness, would largely or completely exterminate both sides.

Posted by: malenkov | Feb 21 2024 21:53 utc | 184

But, alas.
Posted by: canuck | Feb 21 2024 13:51 utc | 3
The total lack of awareness is truly breathtaking.

Posted by: Jpc | Feb 21 2024 21:55 utc | 185

Posted by: canuck | Feb 21 2024 20:40 utc | 156
You really need to choke dicks…
Between the “intellectual incest” and the “intellectual snob” there’s a millimeter to fill the gap.
It seems that your 24/7 comments are making a life, a new love.
Hey! That’s the common behaviour in this forum: abuse and narcissism.
Make a date.
Maybe you find your spirit.

Posted by: David | Feb 21 2024 21:58 utc | 186

Apart from our learned barkeep, was the slip noted by any mainstream outlet at all?
Posted by: Patroklos | Feb 21 2024 19:06 utc | 110
In the current situation.
Would it be expedient not to note such a slip for a more stable career?

Posted by: jpc | Feb 21 2024 21:59 utc | 187

So get over it you chronic virtue signallers. The woman used the term perfectly acceptably, probably without irony, certainly without sensitivity — but who cares. There is no need to psychoanalyse her reference except for being a language smartarse or a Jew-baiter. She just said what she meant, in lower case.
Btw, I have been battling termites under my verandah for years, and this week I’m tearing it down as the final solution.
Posted by: Jake Blanchard | Feb 21 2024 21:10 utc | 164
_____
Diplomacy has traditionally demanded a rigorous and precise use of language. For instance, there is a world of difference between “is concerned about” and “deplores.” For you to articulate a “final solution” to your termite problem is one thing, but for a diplomat to use such a term, with its undeniable historical baggage, is simply unprofessional — and unconscionable . . . and yet entirely in character when one consider the succession of ever more moronic and/or thuggish characters the USA employs as diplomats.

Posted by: malenkov | Feb 21 2024 22:06 utc | 188

I sense a disturbance in the force. So many very well read and intelligent commenters on this site are bubbling up in rage at certain lies that have been perpetuated by the greatest propaganda effort the world has ever seen. It is indeed unreal.
What has bothered me most about this whole thing is the genocidal language used by top Israeli officials. These are not some blog posts, or goofy tweets by nobodies. THE genocide and dehumanization of the people of Gaza by TOP OFFICIALS is really breathtaking. If only historians had such evidence of bad old uncle Adolf making statements like this, they would have had a field day!!
Remember folks, Anne Frank died in a German hospital.
Those national socialists might have been the worst proprietors of “death camps” in the HISTORY of death camps.
LOL.

Posted by: Johnny | Feb 21 2024 22:10 utc | 189

Jake Blanchard | Feb 21 2024 21:32 utc | 174–
Agree about the misuse of holocaust. There’s the Greek term Hecatomb:
“Figuratively, hecatomb is used to describe the sacrifice or destruction by fire, tempest, disease or the sword of any large number of persons or animals; and also of the wholesale destruction of inanimate objects, and even of mental and moral attributes.” Hecatomb
The key in both is “sacrifice” to the gods. The mass murder events were clearly not sacrifices to the gods and thus merit a different name–Genocide–or simply Mass Murder. How is one more hideous and evil than the other? Might we consider certain Western European/North & South American elites serial killers?

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 21 2024 22:13 utc | 190

Not just Israeli officials, but officials in the US govt as well. Try despicable. But folks are showing their true colors

Posted by: RP | Feb 21 2024 22:14 utc | 191

karlof1 | Feb 21 2024 21:50 utc | 182
Excellent comment; the reckoning for the Empire draws ever nearer (I hope).

Posted by: robjira | Feb 21 2024 22:17 utc | 192

by Jake Blanchard | Feb 21 2024 21:32 utc | 174
Many, not all, important, rich and richer Jews moved away from Europe or a Nazi reach far before Nazis decided to annihilate the rest of mostly poor, uneducated Jewish and non Christian folk inhabiting German envisaged Lebensraum. So as it goes, I would buy a theory that Jews saw an opportunity there and used the situation as a final argument (that they lost, just a day or a two after Gaza outbreak), thus, holocaustus might be an offering of a part of a non important population and that is exactly what it is. Verband nationaldeutscher Juden was pretty big in mid 20s until mid 30s. This sentence from Wikipeadia is really funny, if not tragic but tells a lot:

The seemingly ironic fact that a Jewish association advocated loyalty to the Nazi program gave rise to a contemporary joke about Naumann and his followers ending their meeting by giving the Nazi salute and shouting “Down With Us!

Posted by: whirlX | Feb 21 2024 22:22 utc | 193

They are in love: they do not try to figure out this mess. They are rubbing their “snobbism” and their “knowledge”. They engage in who is better in an anonymous forum.
Meanwhile, the people are dying and all of you: do nothing.
I know what I’m doing, because I am doing 10000 underwear a month for the people. Multiple industries are doing the same for our soldiers.
I read you sometimes, but you are a bunch of narcissists and bad tempered personalities.

Posted by: David | Feb 21 2024 22:22 utc | 194

Johnny | Feb 21 2024 22:10 utc | 189–
You raise an extremely important point: All the evidence of Zionist Genocide of Palestinians as policy and its endorsements by leading Zionist politicos. Where’s the “scorekeeping” of those utterances, which must be more than 100. And then there’s the polling of Zionist Society that reveals its endorsement of Genocide which is asked directly in the polling questions. Are they being added to the scorecard? Where’s the tally of all that evidence?!?

Posted by: karlof1 | Feb 21 2024 22:24 utc | 195

Somewhat off topic, but they are covering the Zionist Occupier carnage, is anyone else unable to access Consortium News?
https://consortiumnews.com/
I was looking for Assange kangaroo court updates.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 21 2024 22:39 utc | 196

I rarely see the topic broached, even here. But let’s all remember the reasons given by Osama bin Laden for his crusade against America: The USA’s unwavering support for the occupying Zionist forces in Palestine (and general fuckery in the greater ME – often in support of the Zionist project).
Leaving aside all the intentionally unanswered questions about 9/11 and accepting the ‘official’ version of events, how long before the next ‘blowback’ terrorist attack in the USA or Europe? What Israel is doing now is unprecedented even compared against their own vile history. Will the blowback be as well?
With the crumbling reputation and diminishing soft and military power in the west, something tells me that the DC elites and their MIC/Wall Street/Zionist puppet masters would actually welcome another “New Pearl Harbor.”

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 21 2024 22:48 utc | 197

Posted by: Delhiliterally | Feb 21 2024 21:22 utc | 166
LOL! I had noticed in January that state.gov deputies more than once sidelined Auntie Linda. Suspected for an NY minute that they/their/them might of caught a case of Austin syndrome.

Posted by: sln2002 | Feb 21 2024 22:49 utc | 198

librul 102
Although I agree with you that Israel is lying, I don’t think you understand Political Islam’s lying. It is synchronised lying by zionism which is Political Judaism, Islamism which is Political Islam and Crusaders which is Political Christians. Politics is a euphemism for lying.
These Political types have no respect for the laws of faith and no respect for international law. Their speciality is lying and denying the principles of God-nade and man-made law.
I see much frustration with Russia. Russia has no handle or leverage on these political eels.
There’s no point referencing the Laws of God or Man when dealing with liars who recognise neither God nor Man. It just makes the honest look stupid to try to pin down liars to any fixed standard of behaviour.
O guarantee you that whatever Hegrmonis plans USUK Zionism.and Political Islam have for all these shipments of US bombs , they will for one purpose only , to bring the Russian and Chinese resistance to USUKIS imperialism down.
Russia and China speak the quoted aims of USUKIS statements about Palestine, to defeat terrorism, not because they agree with USUKIS, nor because they disagree with them, but simply in order to inform their audience that they are observing the lies of their enemies who are USUK EU zionism and Political Islam, and they are planning appropriate action.
This absolutely does not mean that they support their enemies ‘ actions. It merely tells the world that they are fully engaged with whatever the liars are planning, without in any degree being deceived by them.

Posted by: Giyane | Feb 21 2024 22:52 utc | 199

RE: Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Feb 21 2024 22:39 utc | 196
I was able to access it. Lots of Assange articles.
As for covering the genocide… just some Veto Ceasefire stuff… couched between Navalny, space weapons, Blinken scolding Brazil LuLu and Biden/Trump garbage.
Oh, and the usual… the government will shut down March 1 cuz no extension in place. So… No.. Israel is a byword now.
There’s no genocide… no problems in Israel. Alls well.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Feb 21 2024 22:55 utc | 200