Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 4, 2024
Ukraine SitRep: Zelenski’s Propaganda Outlet Is Leading His Decline

In early 2022, at the start of the war in Ukraine, the government of President Zelenski monopolized all television news:

Since the early days of Russia’s full-scale invasion in 2022, the people of Ukraine have had access to a single source of television news — an all-day broadcast packed with footage of Ukrainian tanks blasting Russian positions, medics operating near the frontline and political leaders rallying support abroad.

The show, Telemarathon United News, has been a major tool of Ukraine’s information war, praised by the government officials who regularly appear on it for its role in countering Russian disinformation and maintaining morale.

“It’s a weapon,” President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine said last January of the program, which is jointly produced and broadcast 24/7 by the country’s biggest television channels.

The Telethon, as it is known in Ukraine, became the sole source of news on Ukrainian airwaves. It was partially financed by the Ukrainian regime.  It soon developed into the main outlet for the Ukrainian government to spread its propaganda. It continuously presented alleged Ukrainian successes and derided Russia's capabilities.

It had deluded many Ukrainians into believing that their country can win the war.

But since the much propagandized 2023 'counteroffensive' has failed people have turned away from it.

A few still hang on. In a recent debate with military officers in Ukraine one pimpled youngster, drunk on Telethon disinformation, asked one of the Ukrainian officers about the 'bad quality of Russian weapons'.

He received an unexpected response. (I have seen the video of the exchange on Twitter but fail to re-find it.)

Strana, the Ukrainian news service prohibited in Ukraine and Russia, reported the exchange (machine translation):

Meanwhile, the Ukrainian military is discussing that at the end of the second year of the war, the Russian army is better armed and equipped than the Ukrainian one. This was stated by the battalion commander of the third assault brigade (one of the main strike forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine) Rollo.

This is how he answered the question of what the average Russian military equipment is and "how much worse it is than ours."

"The Russian army is no worse than the Ukrainian one, even better. Technologically better equipped, more equipment, better weapons, better equipment than the Ukrainian one. What makes you think they're worse? This is even some kind of humiliation that turns out to be ours. Like, "f**k you're fighting the law and there's nothing you can do?". But because they are stronger – this is objective, " Rollo said.

According to him, the Russians not only have better equipment, but also state programs for equipping and providing the army.

"Don't underestimate the opponent, this is a very serious opponent. More serious than most armies in the world. Treating them like dol***bam and lo*am, that's what we do, dol***oby and lo*i, if we do that," Rollo added.

Other commanders advised turning off the telethon at home, which promotes the idea that the Russian army is weak.

(I do not know what "dol***bam" and "lo*am" stand for but they don't seem to be nice words.)

The third assault brigade is part of AZOV, the fascist organization that has grown exponentially under the Zelenski regime.

If even its ideological deluded officers freely admit that Russian forces are superior to them, imagine how the average Ukrainian soldier on the ground feels about his country's chances to win the war.

In early March 2022 I had warned that Lies Do Not Win Wars. Ukrainian propaganda, with support from western media,  the neoconservative ISW and the disinformation branch of Britain's Ministry of Defense, has been full of lies and exaggerations. But the real war is lost on the ground and, over time, its reality seeps in.

The Telethon has lost its usefulness due to the constant disinformation it has spread. Its viewership is down to 10% as the Ukrainian people now get their news from Telegram and tune their TVs to reality shows and other diversions on different channels.

That the New York Times has finally picked up on this can be interpreted as a U.S. government attempt to further distance itself from the Zelenski regime in Ukraine:

Another concern is that Telemarathon has transformed into a public relations operation for Mr. Zelensky, who remains Ukraine’s most trusted political figure but has seen his approval ratings decrease in recent months.

Figures compiled by Mr. Kulias show that members of Servant of the People, Mr. Zelensky’s party, accounted for more than 68 percent of the program’s political guests in 2023, with this proportion rising steadily throughout the year. Servant of the People controls half of the seats in Parliament.

“It’s like a unanimous point of view,” Andrii Khantil, a 41-year-old lawyer, said of Telemarathon on a recent evening near the Golden Gate, a reconstructed gateway that marked the entrance to Kyiv in medieval times. “It’s not really what we need. It’s not helpful."

This attack on Zelenski's propaganda outlet comes while there is a new spat between the president and the commander of the Ukrainian force over the additional mobilization of 500,000 men. Zelenski had said that this would fulfill a requirement that the military had made.

General Zaluzny publicly rejected that claim:

In response to recent statements suggesting a potential mobilization of up to half a million people in Ukraine, the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, Valery Zaluzhny, said that the military command has not formally requested the mobilization.

“The military command has not made a single request [to the authorities] for any figures. The military command continues to perform the function of protecting the state and, accordingly, forms its requests for ammunition, weapons and human resources,” Zaluzhny stated during a national telethon.

“This is done on an ongoing basis, but we do not carry out [such requests] in some separate format by submitting it to the government or the Verkhovna Rada,” he added.

Zelenski's attempt to pass the mobilization buck to Zaluzny has failed. As the reality of a lost war bubbles to the surface his public ratings will sink to new lows.

Gordon Hahn describes the atmosphere in Ukraine as pre-revolutionary:

Kiev is now gripped by crisis politics. With the Ukraine’s defense lines and army in slow-motion collapse and extreme discontent among top military commanders and across the political elite, Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelenskiy is fighting for his political and personal survival. More importantly, the stakes could not be higher for the Maidan regime’s coalition of nationalists, neofascist, corruptionaires, new oligarchs, and the occasional republican. Meanwhile, the young Ukrainian state, based on still poorly consolidated quasi-republican institutions and a nationalist ideology, is at risk of disintegration, dissolution, and even disappearance. It surrounded by growing threats: the Russian army, angry Ukrainian soldiers and commanders, Kiev’s financial and economic insolvency and dissipation, popular desperation, and the risk of palace or military coups, even a new ‘Galician’ civil war.

Soon something will break.

The telethon that had helped Zelenski to gain the peoples' attention and admiration is now leading the path to his decline.

I doubt that he, at the end of this years, will still be the president of Ukraine.

Comments

In analyzing whether a counter-revolution might be possible in Ukraine, overthrowing the Maidan criminals and hanging Zee from a lightpost, we need to keep some things in mind:
1. The parts of Ukraine not taken by Russia are not a country, anymore. They’re at best a suzerainty of the West, principally governed by the UK, US, and the EU. The remaining people within it are stripped of any say in governance.
2. As a financial matter, Ukraine is utterly dependent on Western money printing to make next month’s interest payments on its debt, along with paying civil servants, defense, etc. They’re the equivalent of a broke trust fund baby who lived large off the parents, and now parents are threatening to cut off.
3. Ukraine has lost half its population, and what remains are not demographically young. Old people don’t fight in the streets for revolutionary goals.
I don’t see any prospect for revolution or overthrowing the Zee regime unless the firehose of fiat stops pointing in Kiev’s direction.
If that does happen, it might be possible, and might happen slowly, then suddenly. Once meat and milk become unavailable or cost a month’s pay, pensions stop paying, and the remaining folks have literally nothing left to lose, there might be a revolt. Of course, that would lead to the West totally cutting off the funds, and things spiraling. It’s possible that rather than some big Maidan-style revolution, it goes like Libya, and things splinter, with some areas deciding to go with Russia, and others being ruled by local warlords (Azov Nazis can apply for these warlord positions, having good resumes.)

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jan 4 2024 21:29 utc | 101

German government will be in big trouble next week when farmers will block everywhere in protest of new totalitarian green laws.I hope our german fellow barflies will keep us informed,on the next upcoming open thread of course.

Posted by: willie | Jan 4 2024 21:30 utc | 102

Posted by: canuck | Jan 4 2024 13:43 utc | 22:

“”Newspapers have always been propaganda outlets, it is what the printing press was invented for.”

Incorrect.
The first thing printed, in the West (the East had movable type previous to the West), was the Gutenberg bible.

><><><>< Is it your claim that the Hebrew-Christian [Gutenberg] bible is NOT propaganda??!

Posted by: ChasMark | Jan 4 2024 21:31 utc | 103

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jan 4 2024 21:29 utc | 100
What now threatens to happen, unless the US solves the funding problem, is that Ukraine de facto becomes a ruthless nationalist dictatorship. For the purpose of keeping the NATO presence at that territory alive. They need the proximity to Russia and its large cities since they are afraid that they will lose one country after another to Russia otherwise.
So, I expect that Russia’s current strategy of weakening Ukraine bit by bit will start to lose effectiveness as the internal situation will simply be managed by force (they managed it informationally until now). Russia is already hinting at this when Putin, and I believe others, said that Ukraine is not Russias enemy but the elites of the West are. This is as direct as it can be.
I think that taking territory will be back in the focus of Russia’s strategy. In combination with taking up the information space internally. This phase of the SMO is slowly coming to a finish.

Posted by: alek_a | Jan 4 2024 21:49 utc | 104

Oriental Voice | Jan 4 2024 20:53 utc | 95–
Happy Western New Year! Yes, that’s the Hearst of Hearst Castle and Patty Hearst infamy along with being the subject of an excellent movie Citizen Kane. Information manipulation’s been around for many thousands of years. But generally you’re correct about the reliability and trust once placed in print media. There’re some excellent reports about the extremely vicious nature of the early US print media during the undeclared war against France Era from roughly 1790-1803 aimed at the vilification of Thomas Jefferson, his associates and their opposition–rhetoric that would be deemed extreme hate speech today.
The main reason humans have such a large brain was to retain vital information from their environment for survival as there was no written language or anything to write it on so it could be recorded for use by subsequent generations. Oral history was the only history until about 6,000 year ago. And as you might imagine given its importance, the fact that it needed to be impeccably correct was paramount, something Ray Bradbury touched on in Fahrenheit 451. Being truthful, honest, trustworthy although greatly eroded are still the basic foundations for Honor, a concept far too many have disabused and forgotten, a value both Russia and China highly esteem, which is why they have such great disdain for the West.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 4 2024 22:02 utc | 105

Posted by: canuck | Jan 4 2024 13:43 utc | 22:
“”Newspapers have always been propaganda outlets, it is what the printing press was invented for.”
Incorrect.
The first thing printed, in the West (the East had movable type previous to the West), was the Gutenberg bible.
><><><>< Is it your claim that the Hebrew-Christian [Gutenberg] bible is NOT propaganda??! Posted by: ChasMark | Jan 4 2024 21:31 utc | 102 Some of it is, some of it is not. Is it 'propaganda' when Jesus preached for Debt Jubilees for the poor, or the prayer, in Greek in the Lord's prayer "forgive their indebtedness" . Elites sure didn't promote that agenda. Kindly please illustrate a biblical passage from the Bible and precisely explain why it is propaganda rather than talk in vague generalities.

Posted by: canuck | Jan 4 2024 22:12 utc | 106

104
“being truthful, honest . . trustworthy..”
indeed Karlofi, there it is. A basis for integrity, LIFE.
And everything lacking thereof, as the west seemingly esteems.
God have mercy on the “west”, a whore for sure, as things are.

Posted by: rubberheid | Jan 4 2024 22:17 utc | 107

Off Topic: Obstacles to Truth
There are four chief obstacles to grasping truth, which hinder every man, however learned, and scarcely allow anyone to win a clear title to knowledge; namely, submission to faulty and unworthy authority, influence of custom, popular prejudice, and concealment of our own ignorance accompanied by the ostentatious display of our knowledge.
Social Sciences as Sorcery” (1972), by Professor Stanislav Andreski.

Posted by: canuck | Jan 4 2024 22:18 utc | 108

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 4 2024 17:03 utc | 58
Thank you, Karlof for posting those critiques of Barnes and the book he edited. With regards the quote by John Quincy Adams, I can only observe that quite often when men come to hold political power, there is usually a gap between what they say and the actions they take in office. Recall George H.W. Bush’s famous quip “read my lips, no new taxes” when ran for president in 1988; then one of his first actions in office was to call for higher taxes on the American people.
Leonard W. Levy devotes and entire book to a critique of Jefferson’s violations of his fellow Americans civil liberties as president, liberties which we know he passionately esteemed and defended in his voluminous writings. The book is “Jefferson and Civil Liberties: The Darker Side”.

Posted by: DesertBunny | Jan 4 2024 22:34 utc | 109

Over 5,900 foreign mercenaries died during the fighting in Ukraine in the ranks of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The Russian Ministry of Defense spoke about the colossal losses of the so-called Foreign Legion, which lost almost half of its personnel.
According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, in total over 13,500 legionnaires from Europe, Asia, countries of North and South America and Africa arrived in Ukraine.
“The Russian troops killed more than 5.9 thousand people, more than 5.6 thousand fled, more than 1.9 thousand are still fighting,” the Russian Ministry of Defense reported.
It was previously reported that, according to the Investigative Committee, in more than 70 countries around the world, mercenaries who were adherents of the Nazi regime were recruited to participate in hostilities as part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Ukrainian conflict zone.
tvzvezda

Posted by: mercenaries | Jan 4 2024 22:41 utc | 110

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 4 2024 17:03 utc | 58
I picked up a copy before someone decides to erase it as well. Always good to have hard copy around.

Posted by: MoT | Jan 4 2024 23:14 utc | 111

Posted by: canuck | Jan 4 2024 13:43 utc | 22
The bible is a propaganda outlet by excellence.

Posted by: Naive | Jan 4 2024 23:22 utc | 112

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jan 4 2024 16:34 utc | 53
Posted by: john brewster | Jan 4 2024 17:20 utc | 64
what is your solution to the problem? As with ahenobarus and snake, you don’t want global dictatorship, but what kind of organization can stop that from happening?
____
<=I have presented my solution several times.. The answer is two governments.. The standard government and the audit government.. The proposed new government(the audit government) governs those who manage and run the standard traditional government. Everyone not employed by, elected to or in contract with the standard traditional government is by definition an active team member of the audit government. The audit government sets the standards for those who run the standard traditional government. Both performance standards and ethical standards are established by and enforced by the audit government. Everyone who is governed by the standard traditional government becomes an auditor, prosecutor, judge and jury.. They each have the right of entry at any time into the affairs of those who run the standard traditional government and each person being an auditor has the duty to deliver for indictment any breach or infraction of ethics or performance that comes to the auditors attention. The audit government will maintain a judicial system. If the judicial system determines a breach of ethics or performance has occurred; the persons or groups including corporations, contractors, and government officials and bureaucrats and their officers and directors and employees (since such persons, exempt from the audit government, are chartered by the standard traditional government) are subject to indictment for breach of ethics or failure to perform. Once indictment is returned, audit government will elect a set of jurist, who will hear the case, and if the trial brings a conviction, the perpetrator will be removed from office, jailed for the period of his or her sentence and restricted from participating in government or any part of it (cannot be a contractor of or the recipient of a grant or award, franchise or stipends of any kind for the rest of the perpetrators life). There is a lot of work to be done to organize this idea, many different layers of thought are needed, but instead of a fully bottom up government (which could prove inefficient, and soon be turned by the greedy into something worse than we already have, it seems somewhat better to keep the strong points of standard traditional government, and to weaken into oblivion the weak points of standard traditional government. To do that it is necessary only to make every person who is governed by the standard traditional government into an auditor and to empower each such auditor with sufficient force and authority to permit that auditor to continuously 24/7 audit the personal affairs and the public administration of those who run the standard traditional government, as well as all those who contract with or who receive benefits from the standard traditional government for ever. The governed should be out for the blood of any member of standard traditional government who violates ethics or produces subpar performance, and while the audit government members are looking for blood, they will become knowledgeable as to how government works, and if an auditor finds a member of the standard traditional government in violation of ethics or failing to perform to standard all hell should come down on the guilty standard traditional party. I believe this system can work no matter if the 256 member nation state system is retained or if one world government comes into being. It just makes sense to allow those who are to be the governed to govern those who are to be the governors. Who should set the performance standards and the ethics standards. The answer is, those who are governed by the traditional government. We now know that the greedy will never agree to be limited by a constitution.. the greedy will never agree to do business in the open for all to see.. yet it is the greedy who run the standard traditional governments. This conflict cannot be resolved by putting the fox in charge of the hen house. So we need two governments. One standard traditional government to govern the people and the other to govern those who govern (this new government empowers everyone who is among the governed and who is not associated with or dependent upon the standard traditional government with whatever is needed to investigate and collect evidence about those in charge of and those living a benefactors of the standard traditional government.

Posted by: snake | Jan 4 2024 23:24 utc | 113

Well NATO managed to impart at least one key tenet of its military leaders onto their Ukrainian counterparts, that being to have your talking points in order, as they’ll serve you whether a war results in a win, a loss, or a draw.

“The Russian army is no worse than the Ukrainian one, even better. Technologically better equipped, more equipment, better weapons, better equipment than the Ukrainian one …”

Posted by: Babel-17 | Jan 4 2024 23:28 utc | 114

DesertBunny | Jan 4 2024 22:34 utc | 107–
Thanks for your reply. Jefferson was indeed enigmatic. As for Barnes’s work, I read his Preface and discovered his further alliance with Charles Beard which IMO is commendable. That he admits to being a revisionist is curious given that all historians are essentially revisionists, although that fact wasn’t very well understood during his age, nor is it now. Also, as we’ve learned via other scholarship, the term isolationist was invented after WW2 not before as implied by all too many–talk about revisionism. There’s a distinct political aim with that smear–to taint the vast majority of Americans that supported the three Neutrality Acts aimed at keeping the nation out of WW2 in line with many admonitions made in the style of George Washington’s who JQ Adams was mimicking–avoid foreign entanglements. It would have taken longer, but the USSR would’ve defeated Nazi Germany without American help. Japan would be a very different story, however, although China given its immensity would eventually have prevailed, perhaps with Soviet help. And of course, post-war history would be vastly different. But none of that happened. What has happened IMO has yet to be properly explained and has its roots in the mid to late 1870s in the USA and UK but isn’t the LaRouche hypothesis. However, it certainly involves this thread’s topic: Propaganda. Barnes’s aim is to try and dispel the misdirection of US History in the immediate post-war years to make it comply with post-war policy and the construction of a global US Imperium very foreign to American tradition.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 4 2024 23:31 utc | 115

Kindly please illustrate a biblical passage from the Bible and precisely explain why it is propaganda rather than talk in vague generalities.
Posted by: canuck | Jan 4 2024 22:12 utc | 105
It is propaganda because it is full of lies, full of threats, full of hate, full of crimes, because it promotes a so-called elected tribe.

Posted by: Naive | Jan 4 2024 23:31 utc | 116

MoT | Jan 4 2024 23:14 utc | 109–
Yes, hard copies are good, but it’s now on my hard drive which is okay for me. I do need to look through my collection, however, as the name Barnes seems familiar, and I may have something written by him. Given what was happening in 1953, it’s not too surprising he had to self-publish, and his rubbishing by Wikipedia’s probably a good sign that his thesis is barking up the right tree. Were you able to get an original or a reprint? I see some reprints are 140+ pages shorter.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 4 2024 23:39 utc | 117

Posted by: snake | Jan 4 2024 23:24 utc | 111
Your proposal is at least… naive. In a country where corruption is everywhere you can have all the institutions you want, the corrupt people will decide. Money is the new god and all people of power are worshipping it.
And this is not only valid for Ukraine. The covid-19 case is a master example of that corruption at the highest level.

Posted by: Naive | Jan 4 2024 23:40 utc | 118

Naive | Jan 4 2024 23:31 utc | 114–
Also, Jesus the simple Rabbi is proclaimed to be the son of god and with much of what’s he said and did contrived and falsified. Also today, we can cross reference much with other contemporary societies to verify much content and how it’s translated, that aspect–translation–being extremely important as Hudson shows so well.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 4 2024 23:45 utc | 119

Naive | Jan 4 2024 23:40 utc | 116–
No, Money’s an old god, been worshiped for 4,000+ years.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 4 2024 23:47 utc | 120

If Ukraine fights the war for another 2 years its fighting age men will be gone.
When the war started the average age of a Ukrainian soldier soldier was 33 years. By now it is 43 years (few months old data from the TIME magazine). Increases by 5 years every year of war as the active young are killed or permanently disabled.
When the war started life expectancy of Ukrainian men was 65. Now it is 57. Dropping by 4 years every year.
If war continues for another 19 months the average age of a Ukrainian soldier soldier will be 43+5+5/12*11=51
Life expectancy of Ukrainian men will be 57-4-4/12*11=50.9
Attrition complete against Ukraine.

Posted by: Jason | Jan 4 2024 23:47 utc | 121

Times 7, not 11 for 19 months.

Posted by: Jason | Jan 4 2024 23:48 utc | 122

It can no longer be ignored. canuck’s ability to derail threads with mostly mental masturbation and boorish arguments I mean.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Jan 4 2024 23:49 utc | 123

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 4 2024 23:39 utc | 115
I have a hardbound copy of PW for PW bought years ago from abebooks.com. Published by Claxton Printers, Ltd. Caldwell, Idaho, 1953. 679 numbered pages incl. index.

Posted by: DesertBunny | Jan 5 2024 0:03 utc | 124

correction: Perpetual War(PW) for Perpetual Peace(PP)

Posted by: DesertBunny | Jan 5 2024 0:05 utc | 125

Posted by: canuck | Jan 4 2024 22:12 utc | 105
Leave it to “prosperity gospel” capitalist antisocialist American Christians to argue that Jesus never preached for the Debt Jubilee at all. At least not how we talk about it.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/5-myths-about-jubilee/

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 5 2024 0:15 utc | 126

There are many who consider the Bible to be a hugely successful propaganda campaign.
Posted by: Mary | Jan 4 2024 16:29 utc | 52
———————————————————-
Thank you, Mary, I agree with you. Another thing that the Gutenberg Bible did was solidify all the mistakes, revisions. and lies that resulted from hundreds of years of numerous handwritten copies and mistranslations by the Catholic Church.

Posted by: Ed | Jan 5 2024 0:35 utc | 127

Also, Jesus the simple Rabbi is proclaimed to be the son of god and with much of what’s he said and did contrived and falsified. Also today, we can cross reference much with other contemporary societies to verify much content and how it’s translated, that aspect–translation–being extremely important as Hudson shows so well.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 4 2024 23:45 utc | 117
The problem is that nobody understands the gospels. Not the jews, nor the xians, nor Hudson with his ludicrous Caesar’s Messiah. It is really amazing.
Read Luke 19:27. It tells it all.

Posted by: Naive | Jan 5 2024 0:42 utc | 128

@Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 4 2024 23:31 utc | 113
The last few decades of the 1800s is when capitalist bourgeois hegemony was gained in the US through (i) the defeat of the landed gentry in the Civil War (ii) the massive growth in the scale of corporations (iii) the defeat of both the unions and the Free Soil movements (iv) the first national newspapers. With the closing of the frontier, expansion had to move abroad. As Cox so well put it, hegemony at home can lead to hegemony abroad in the right circumstances, so pretty well immediately we had the US-Spanish War (1898) to take The Philippines and Puerto Rico and the domination of Cuba. The US capitalist elite has always been expansionist, it was generally the rest of the population that saw no point in “fighting other people’s wars”. They always had to be deceived and dragged along into fighting those other people’s wars, hence Wilson’s implementation of a fascist state apparatus in 1917 and the games played by Roosevelt with both Japan and Germany.
Reading Barnes’ start to the first chapter was amusing, as he waxed lyrical about the wonderful liberal world prior to 1914. The vast majority of the US population would have tended to disagree with him given the extremes in wealth and power and the judiciaries backing of the rich against the poor in ruling after ruling. His take on other nations, for instance that Russia was moving toward constitutional monarchy (Nicholas II would have vehemently disagreed!), and a Britain where the Liberals were bringing in some small part of social welfare, is also quite amusing. The lack of taxation of the rich was also a negative not a positive. He certainly came from at least an upper middle class background. His statement that “A friend who read the preceding material suggested that laboring men would be likely to give me a “horselaugh” is much more accurate than he accepts.
Writers such as van der Pijl (e.g. “The Making of an Atlantic Ruling Class”) and Jacques R. Pauwels (e.g. “The Great Class War 1914-1918”) have a much better take on this period, much less sifting through the chaff to find the wheat.

Posted by: Roger | Jan 5 2024 0:42 utc | 129

No, Money’s an old god, been worshiped for 4,000+ years.
Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 4 2024 23:47 utc | 118
Not everywhere, not by everyone.

Posted by: Naive | Jan 5 2024 0:44 utc | 130

I am ever convinced that Russia knows what it’s doing, on every front: military, psychology, socio economic, etc.
The US only looks short term. If the sanctions didn’t work, they imagined Russia would do a shock and awe campaign which would create an Afghanistan like guerrilla war.
Instead Russia consistently is reasonable and not punishing civilians as much as possible. Propaganda works for a while, but the lies are building. By now it’s clear that the new oblasts in Russia are happy being there and better off. The lies of the regime are showing. The top level oligarchs still want their American money but below that, they see the future and don’t want to be perpetual debt slaves of America.
Telegram channels and word of mouth has done its work. It’s quite possible that within the next 6 months Russia won’t have to do very much to create a regime change – just help remove MI6 and CIA foreigners.
The worst case for Ukrainians is now if the country exists under a mountain of debt like Haiti did. The very idea of Ukraine is now associated with Nazism. It wouldn’t surprise me if the country no longer existed in 2 years, with the western parts being split amongst Poland, Hungary etc, and the east/South to Russia organised by legitimate referendums. Of course called illegitimate by the US.
No one in Ukraine wants to be the 21st century Haiti. Except the oligarchs who have their money elsewhere and can leave the country. Which again was like Haiti.

Posted by: Matthew | Jan 5 2024 0:52 utc | 131

Is it ‘propaganda’ when Jesus preached for Debt Jubilees for the poor, or the prayer, in Greek in the Lord’s prayer “forgive their indebtedness” . Elites sure didn’t promote that agenda.
Kindly please illustrate a biblical passage from the Bible and precisely explain why it is propaganda rather than talk in vague generalities.
Posted by: canuck | Jan 4 2024 22:12 utc | 105
Since nearly every language has their own nuances, direct translation of the Bible is crude, at best. The Bible, in total, including the tribe out of Babylon’s adoption of Zoroaster, the message of every passage is clear. Earth is Hell, and a better place will arise when you die, or more usual, when we kill you. Send in your tithes, tell us your darkest secrets (confess your infinite sins). Control. Nothing more, nothing less.
When a Ukrainian Soldier prays to win the War and a Russian soldier prays, to the same god, do the prayers cancel out?
When a Palestinian prays to Allah, and when an Israeli prays to Yahweh, are they both praying to the same Abrahamic God?
I think if there ever was a God, he/she/it has moved onto to another Planet in the Multiverse. This has to be concidered a failed Project.

Posted by: kupkee | Jan 5 2024 0:56 utc | 132

Ukraine is a joke. Murica certainly chose the right hill to die on! Lmfao!

Posted by: nook | Jan 5 2024 1:10 utc | 133

@Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 4 2024 23:45 utc | 117
The greatest lie of Christianity is the “white Jesus” myth, as of course if Jesus existed he would have been a semite. This myth of course served the White Europeans well in their Imperial form as they could be seen as being in the image of Christ, as they enforced Christianity across the Americas and Africa. The ability of the West and the Church to carry on with what is such a blatant lie, repeated in so many Western religious films, shows the power of propaganda and ideology.
Interesting that so many right-wingers cry out about the misrepresentation of Cleopatra in a certain Netfix mocumentary, but are blind to the lie that looks down upon them from within their churches. Perhaps Netflix should produce a biblical story without a race-swapped Jesus?

Posted by: Roger | Jan 5 2024 1:12 utc | 134

@ zorge: And the Europeans you cite would fight on with….what exactly? Broken Leopards bereft of replacement parts? With 105mm ammo, the only kind left in NATO countries? With ancient F-16s from the Reagan Administration’s time? What you fail to realize is that it is NATO, not just NATO’s proxy in Kiev, that has been defeated since Feb 2022. The entire West is imploding with the USA in the lead. (I’m in the US and verify the collapse daily in institutions of state, the education system, the military, and in private businesses. It’s palpable and, in my opinion, irreversible. No election or series of elections, no magical SCOTUS decision, nothing can stop what is happening.)

Posted by: Jack Gordon | Jan 5 2024 1:15 utc | 135

Some videos for today.
Another Kiev regime tank gets destroyed:
https://rutube.ru/video/9bc32a2add695f745533de104e423789/
Russian Msta-B howitzer pounds enemy position on the Zaporozhye front:
https://rutube.ru/video/c52e141e06d5f4ed6f6d33fa0826885d/
Russian D-30 howitzer opens fire on enemy positions near Kupyansk:
https://rutube.ru/video/d52210435e47c9783116008bca26a6c3/
Russian ATGM crew destroys enemy drone operators near Kupyansk:
https://rutube.ru/video/d556dab4d566e0c784a025f5e28025da/
Russian Su-34 conducts airstrike near the Svatovo/Kremennaya front:
https://rutube.ru/video/964c76a4f5e89e65d6b30551ac937de3/
Russian Strela-10 air defense system shoots down enemy drone near Artemovsk:
https://rutube.ru/video/dd7535414bf1ea0a3bd14fae16f7df8c/

Posted by: Nate | Jan 5 2024 1:16 utc | 136

German government will be in big trouble next week when farmers will block everywhere in protest of new totalitarian green laws.I hope our german fellow barflies will keep us informed,on the next upcoming open thread of course.
Posted by: willie | Jan 4 2024 21:30 utc | 101

Short version:
Haha! I wouldn’t hold my breath. Germany does the whole spectrum of revolutions (Lenin in Moscow, Klitschko in Kiev) elsewhere, but never at home.
+ + +
Long version. Yes, the collective Scholz regime (and their media) is the most incompetent across any incarnation of Germany in the last 1000 years. While being the laughing stock at home and abroad, they still know how to broker and maintain power. Thus, their power is never at stake. The farmers association, just like all relevant unions or “NGOs” in Germany, is 100% government aligned.
(Trying to grow a set of balls involves maximum risk; it will get you alienated either by calling you a Putinist or “right-wing”, with immediate implicit threats of bank account closures or other “sudden” events, i. e. an extended tax probe covering the last 10 years.)
Why the protests? Well, sometimes the Matrix does offer some glitches. Not being convinced of any impact on correcting the legislation, it is a kind of dying-gasp protest. Even with that in mind, political correctness must be maintained: Some organizers of the farmers protests already discouraged carrying German flags; to distance themselves from the AfD, the largest true systemic opposition party. One needs to understand that waving a German flag in post-Merkel Germany is a sin akin to waving a Russian flag, while it is perfectly fine to express your flagged support for LGBTqwertx, Ukraine and/or Israel.
Will the whole country be paralyzed in shock by the farmers mass protests, eventually joined by other groups affected by Germany running out of steam and money? Not too much.
Since the Covid lockdowns, Germans are used that things in the country no longer run as they used to. Chaos at airports due to lack of personnel, trains running late due to lack of personnel and competence, road construction sites popping up everywhere but tending never to get finished — it all fits the already well-known scheme of a once industrialized society breaking at its seams, in slow motion.
While Weimar happened quite suddenly in comparison, what happens today is a very slow process. Today, modern western governments have mechanisms in place to slow the process of everything blowing apart in an instance. Bankruptcy (“Insolvenz” in postmodern German legalese) does no longer equal an immediate operative shutdown of a business, putting people out on the street overnight.
In the end, the outcome still is Scheiße in terms of lost jobs, lost personal and macroeconomic wealth and lost state tax income, but the slow-motion proceedings strongly counter emotional reactions and keep the boiler from blowing at first instance. People are obliged to fight with the Arbeitsamt (job center; broo) bureaucracy, thus giving them something to do when they could otherwise gather for rallies; also, people know that rallies and protests yield next to nothing. This expression of democracy is only nice and good in Moscow, but not at home.
Also, besides having said mechanisms in place of protecting the state from its citizens, people today have become very lazy and much easier to steer. The 100% govt-aligned media even praises (!) another YoY-reduction of German gas consumption as another tiny victory in Germany’s fight for Al Gore’s the universe’s climate.
Government and media don’t give a f*ck about all the new happy flocks of freshly unemployed applicants for government free stuff due to slow-motion deindustrialization—on the contrary, it actually fits the scheme of planned western destruction from within and the whole 2030 “You’ll own nothing and be happy” Agenda. If you want to find a country which praises its own downfall, you’ll find it in Germany first. Others in NATOstan will follow.

Posted by: Nervous German | Jan 5 2024 1:22 utc | 137

Couldn’t agree with you more. The independent/creative/productive individual who wants to work and reap the fruits of his labor and share/trade it in association with whomever he pleases is always fucked by democratic rule whether it’s the dictatorship of oligarchs or the dictatorship of the proletariat. These groups of people use the state to get what they want by coercion rather than by voluntary trade.
Posted by: DesertBunny | Jan 4 2024 16:34 utc | 54
‘——————————————————————-
You are correct DesertBunny, and thanks for the comment. One class (content) or the other will always “get fucked” as you say, regardless of the form of the state. I, for one, support the dictatorship of the majority working-class (a content) over the dictatorship of an exploitive minority ruling class (such as Slavery, Feudalism, and Capitalism) regardless of the form of the state: But I am sure you have your reasons for supporting a non-democratic form of an exploitive state that rules on the majority.
Just remember, it is all about form and content, either way, one class content or the other will get the shaft. When Slavery (a class content) was replaced by Feudalism (another class content), the slave masters were not happy; and when (and where) capitalism (another class content) replaced the Feudal Lords, the Lords were not happy either. Get the picture Mr. Bunny.
Yet at each stage in this dialectical process (struggle) by the exploited classes gain more control of the means of production, natural resources, and a greater share of the products of human labor, by the exploited majority classes (also a class content) resulted in better material living conditions for the exploited majority.
Even though capitalism is an exploitive economic system, who would argue that the exploited working classes in a poorly developed capitalist country enjoy far better living conditions than a slave under the most advanced and developed slave owning society, regardless of the form of the state?

Posted by: Ed | Jan 5 2024 1:32 utc | 138

Again, I hear people assuming that government means big, centralized, global government; and that such a government would take orders from the WEF.
I agree that such an arrangement would be the end of even the possibility of democracy.
But, what is your solution to the problem? As with ahenobarus and snake, you don’t want global dictatorship, but what kind of organization can stop that from happening?
I pointed at one, based on city-based governments in
john brewster | Jan 4 2024 17:20 utc | 64
Do you have any comment about that?
Posted by: john brewster | Jan 4 2024 20:45 utc | 93
———————————————————————-
What is your city going to do when a bigger city wants to take over your city? Will you use violence to defend your city? Without some form of Federal entity, like a Universal Court of Justice (UCJ), it will be every city against every other city.
But who is going to determine who will preside over the UCJ? What rules will the UCJ be guided by, and who will you city appeal to if you don’t like the final decision of the UCJ?
City states are nothing new in human history, and wars between city states eventually resulted in Nation States replacing city states.

Posted by: Ed | Jan 5 2024 1:51 utc | 139

@Posted by: Ed | Jan 5 2024 1:32 utc | 136

Even though capitalism is an exploitive economic system, who would argue that the exploited working classes in a poorly developed capitalist country enjoy far better living conditions than a slave under the most advanced and developed slave owning society, regardless of the form of the state?

Very true, but actual socialism does even better especially when it utilizes the market within a socialist context – as with China or Cuba (with the people of the latter being just as well off as Mexicans whilst under an extreme US economic war). The Soviet citizens were much worse off under the primitive capitalist accumulation of the 1990s, and even now the average person (as against the oligarchs) is still not much better off than during the early 1980s (before Gorbachev started his societal hooliganism).
Unfortunately in the West the capitalist elite are recreating the worst forms of 19th century robber baron capitalism, and even some forms of feudalism such as H1B visa work, masses of illegal aliens, and a mass prisoner population forced to work for a pittance. We also have to remember that the West has demodernized a number of societies, such as Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq and many others where democracy and development was throttled at birth or destroyed in the 1980s structural adjustments. In Argentina, Milei is completing the work of destroying liberal capitalism and reinstating rule by oligarch landowners, miners and financiers.
I look forward to the day that the average Chinese person is richer than the average American, it will be sooner then many think possible, as long as we don not destroy our ecology in the process.

Posted by: Roger | Jan 5 2024 1:52 utc | 140

Reports from Telegram show Ukraine still has attack fighters. People on this blog – months ago – would claim Ukraine only had 5-10 of these planes left. Yet Russia has claimed it shot down 2-3 times that number since then. Yet Ukraine used 7 in the latest attack:
At around 16:20, five Su-24M bombers and two MiG-29 fighters took off from the airbases of Starokonstantinov, Myrhorod, and Kanatovo. They launched Storm Shadow cruise missiles and several ADM-160 MALD decoys in the direction of the peninsula.
▪️ The first missile was shot down over Uyutny near Yevpatoriya. The debris from Storm Shadow caused minor damage to infrastructure, but no casualties were recorded.
▪️ Two more “Storms”, rounding Cape Fiolent, attempted to attack air defense units in Sevastopol. The missiles were not shot down, but they did not reach their target – the military personnel of the 31st division continue to work.
▪️ The crew of the Pantsir-S1 air defense missile system destroyed several more air targets (the attacks were a combination of cruise missiles and decoys) over Pesochnaya Bay near Tauride Chersonese.
▪️ And a couple of “Storms” were shot down in the vicinity of the Fedyukhin Heights and at the Balaklava CHP. From the flight path, it appears that the target could have been an important energy facility.
🔻In total, Russian military personnel shot down ten missiles, most of which were Storm Shadow. The nature of this raid indicates the enemy’s tactics in attacks on Crimea.
In the initial stage, the AFU actively targeted ships and objects of the Black Sea Fleet, forcing them to stay close to their own bases. Now, the enemy is attempting to destroy the air defense on the peninsula.
And the next stage, based on the trends, is likely to involve attacks on the Crimean Bridge. It doesn’t matter that it won’t provide any tactical advantage. The main objective is the PR effect, as well as reputational losses for the Russian leadership.
Meanwhile, fighters of the 31st Air Force and Air Defense Division are currently repelling a drone attack, after which a missile attack is possible.

Posted by: MiniMO | Jan 5 2024 1:55 utc | 141