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January 31, 2024
Palestine Open Thread 2024-036
Comments
Thank you PQ and Stranger for posting here, You are one of the reasons for me continuing to come here and read some enlightening posts. Most of the posters seems to have the right intention, they want the destruction of the western backed world, they want the people of Palestine to be free, though many of them get too emotional and look for easy solutions or project their anger at the wrong people, in this instance the Arab rulers. They need to be taught rather than being labeled or condemned. Yes it takes much more patience but thats the only solution. I also agree with your viewpoints on Putin and the Russian establishment. They seem to be in admiration for the west even now. They are incapable of understanding that they are always going to be looked down upon as second grade humans by the west. However the pendulum takes time to swing, and things are surely swinging the other way. Hope to read more from you guys in the future.
Posted by: Norsk | Feb 1 2024 11:09 utc | 201
Stranger and pq, thank you both for your well though out comments, but you unfortunately you must accept that the reflection from the mirror you hold up, is far too ugly for these people to look at and so you will be viciously attacked, without your points ever being addressed(butt hurt, go away, shows their inability to question their lifelong training).
These people fit very well into this description from Mr Bolsen(nice analogy at 3:50).
https://youtu.be/gIc5QeUKDes?feature=shared
Posted by: Fitz | Feb 1 2024 11:27 utc | 202
Lavieja | Feb 1 2024 10:46 utc | 198
“bought up the fertile land in Ukraine and are dominating the European market with their grains bankrupting the not so well govt – protected farmers”
OT but…. grain is only one problem, which concerns Poland and other limitrophe countries, where Ukraine grain is imported without taxes being applied, so undercutting the local farmers.
The second is that the Corps want to use Ukraine to start the importation of GM grain.
The biggest problems in Europe are the “climate” directives from Brussels who want to “limit” farmers and buy up their land for very little. VdL wants a new domain for hunting?
*
Not for this thread, anyway I have got to go out, so we might be able to continue some other time.
I enjoy arches comments at the momment and admire his content and output.
I also greatly admire pq’s cotrubutions.
It saddens me when comrades fallout.
I think we should overcome the small disagreements for the greater good ie unity in the face of facism. Its a question of priority.
I thought we were stronger on this blog consideringing the dreadfull trolls that do turn up and get a free pass becouse… free speach.
Dont let ‘devide and conquor work’
Cheers all.
Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 1 2024 11:35 utc | 204
@ Norsk, Fitz, Mark2
Thank you. I accept your suggestions. I get upset when I see what I consider to be attacks based on ethnicity / religion etc. I will ignore them in the future. Even if I am called “fuckwit” etc.
If it’s too much I will leave quietly and find a different venue. Criticism of any leader is of course valid but casually talking about taking out faraway cities or destabilising countries horrifies me.
Moving on, this is the boy assassinated in West Bank with his brother and friend. 18 years but was a minor when paralyzed in a drone strike by Israel in Oct 2023.
Here he is in physiotherapy shortly before being killed.
https://t.me/QudsNen/94834
Footage, which was taken for Basel Ghazzawi only one night before his murder. He was one out of three Palestinians assassinated in Ibn Sina Hospital in Jenin in the West Bank by an Israeli unit, dressed like doctors two days ago.
Israeli authorities claimed that Basel, who was paralyzed, was going to carry out “another October 7 in the West Bank.”
Informed sources said Israeli soldiers put the barrel of the gun into Basel’s mouth and killed him.
Mondoweiss also has more reporting.
Posted by: Pq | Feb 1 2024 12:09 utc | 205
Seems South Africa is asking the ICJ why they have issued an arrest warrant for Putin over Ukraine but haven’t issued an arrest warrant for Netanyahu over Gaza.
Posted by: gT | Feb 1 2024 12:14 utc | 206
gT | Feb 1 2024 12:14 utc | 206
That’s the ICC, not the ICJ.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Feb 1 2024 12:20 utc | 207
Posted by: stranger | Feb 1 2024 10:54 utc | 200
Suffice to say that you have no idea and you can never know, what it is like to suffer the mistreatment, discrimination and indignation at the hands of those with lighter skins or the racial abuse suffered by you those you love most.
Why is it, you think, almost every person of colour in the world immediately identified with and felt within, the suffering of the Palestinians? That is not to say you or others of European decent don’t identify with the suffering, many do. The difference is that it is not an awakening of past memories within you.
The beauty of MOA is that you have a choice to ignore the posts of those you choose not to read. I do.
Posted by: Menz | Feb 1 2024 12:22 utc | 208
Pq @ 205
Well put,
I admit i didnt catch the exchainge that took place,
I repeat… your valued here not least by me.
For the sake of this exception blog we need a think skin, and focus.
Trust me siiiigh i know ha ha ha.
Lick ya wounds come back fighting ! Please.
Arch ?
Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 1 2024 12:40 utc | 210
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 1 2024 4:17 utc | 147
=================
Thanks.
Posted by: Jane | Feb 1 2024 12:47 utc | 211
Abier
@abierkhatib
·
Jan 30
Mr. Avi Shlaim, an Israeli historian:
“ It’s not a coincidence that the attacks on #UNRWA.
Israel is trying to discredit the International Court of Justice after the ICJ ruling.
That’s the whole story.
#Gaza
https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1752178705932103803
Posted by: Menz | Feb 1 2024 12:48 utc | 212
And who came up with the name Hannibal Directive?
Is the eponym Hannibal the General?
Hannibal the Cannibal seems more likely.
Posted by: Jane | Feb 1 2024 2:57 utc | 134
As you know Hannibal was one of th4 great captains of history; after being defeated in 204 BC by the Roman Scipio in Africa he fled to Greece and died in 183 BC-he took his life to save the lives of the Greek ruler’s army-suicide in order to save lives hence the ‘Hannibal directive’:
“Hannibal’s Death by Suicide
When Hannibal was in Bithynia (in modern-day Turkey), he helped Rome’s enemies try to bring the city down, serving the Bithynian King Prusias as a naval commander. At one point, Romans visiting Bithynia demanded his extradition in B.C.E. 183. To avoid that, he first tried to escape:
“When Hannibal was informed that the king’s soldiers were in the vestibule, he tried to escape through a postern gate which afforded the most secret means of exit. He found that this too was closely watched and that guards were posted all round the place.
(Livy, “History of Rome”)
Hannibal said, “Let us ease the Romans of their continual dread and care, who think it long and tedious to await the death of a hated old man,” and then drank poison, which he may have kept hidden under a gem on a ring. He was then 65 years old.
“Then, invoking curses on Prusias and his realm and appealing to the gods who guard the rights of hospitality to punish his broken faith, he drained the cup. Such was the close of Hannibal’s life.
(Livy, “History of Rome”)
“Recognize that the Jews own the United States Government lock stock and barrel.”
Posted by: RLTW | Feb 1 2024 7:37 utc | 173
No, the Anglo/Zionists of the City own the US.
You are a clever fellow, surely by now you should know this fact.
Whoops two typos in my @ 210
Exceptional not exception.
Thick, not think.
Sorry for my spelling its lack of general consontration due to age and work overload fighting facism here and several other front lines, whilst ther’s a brezth in my body.
Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 1 2024 13:14 utc | 215
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 1 2024 10:17 utc | 193
Every time you have responded to pq’s critique of this matter that so clearly lies close to his heart, you have done so solely by ad hominem. Not once have you addressed any of the points he cites.
Thus you make his case for him very well.
You, like others pq is addressing with his critique, have a lot of useful things to say. However, in accord with pq’s assertions, it seems evident that your bones are well soaked in the hubris of Empire. We must all work to de-colonise our minds from its insidious capture, and not shoot the messengers that bring us warning of it.
Posted by: Greg | Feb 1 2024 13:16 utc | 216
Posted by: RLTW | Feb 1 2024 7:37 utc | 173
Posted by: canuck | Feb 1 2024 13:13 utc | 214
Get a room. Nail a sign to the door.
Monomaniacs. Do not disturb.
Posted by: sln2002 | Feb 1 2024 13:17 utc | 217
I have seen any number of racist comments against various groups. … I think Hindutva is a dangerous ideology but there’s a way to write about it without resorting to racial slurs. Others insult indigenous peoples or blacks.
I find this disingenuous nonsense. There is an occasional troll post that usually gets quickly removed, nothing froma regular contributor. Exactly though the kind of thing someone trying to shut the site down would want to portray. Sorry, I don’t find your perspective unique.. You’re basically an apologist for the Gulf nations. Being candid, you feel artificial.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Feb 1 2024 13:18 utc | 218
How many jews and jewish duel national are in govenment (both side)
Who will spdack agaunst them and keep their carrie ?
Ditto media.
Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 1 2024 13:20 utc | 219
I thought we were stronger on this blog considering the dreadfull trolls that do turn up and get a free pass becouse… free speach.
Dont let ‘devide and conquor work’
Cheers all.
Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 1 2024 11:35 utc | 204
If we give up on free speech then we lose everything we stand for.
I disagree with what you say etc etc, Voltaire?
They would deny us our say but we have to let the turds spread their vomit to remind us of our principles and we redouble our efforts to spread the truth.
Hang on in there.
Posted by: Walt | Feb 1 2024 13:37 utc | 221
US Troops Put on Standby for Potential US Ground Involvement in Gaza
The Intercept obtained a memo sent to Air Force personnel
by Dave DeCamp January 31, 2024 at 2:04 pm ET CategoriesNewsTagsGaza
US Air Force personnel in Iraq received a memo in January ordering them to be on standby to support potential US ground involvement in Gaza, The Intercept reported on Tuesday.
The memo contained orders for the airmen to be placed “on standby to forward deploy to support troops in the case of on ground US involvement in the Israel Hamas war.” A separate personnel document also obtained by The Intercept showed the order was meant for personnel deployed to Iraq last year.
The document does not suggest US ground operations in Gaza are definitely going to happen, but it does demonstrate the lengths the US might be willing to go to support the Israeli slaughter of Palestinians. Israel has been receiving support from US special operations soldiers on intelligence matters, but there’s no indication US troops have been on the ground in Gaza.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 1 2024 13:38 utc | 222
I hope many of you watched MOATS Sunday episode, Galloway was so powerful in his monologues, what I find most interesting now is that so many commentators have at last shrugged off the fear of being tarred as antisemites and are now going full tilt at saying it as it is: Zionism is evil, it is full blooded apartheid, the two state solution is dead, and the only possible outcome is a single secular state for those who will live there in peace and harmony: but who will impose it?
Posted by: Walt | Feb 1 2024 13:56 utc | 223
Walt
Facist speech is’nt free speech it brings about the end of free speech.
Look at the censorship that now abounds becouse facists and psycopaths were allowed a platform.
Sorry mate your wromg. Its the exception that proves the rule.
Free speech for pedo’s anyone ?
Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 1 2024 13:58 utc | 224
Two lower level officers in IDF’s elite intelligence Unit 8200 outlined a mass invasion one month before onslaught; top officers also waved off manual showing plans for onslaught
…
Separately, Kan reported that before October 7, the IDF had come into possession of a Hamas terror manual that described how to conquer the Gaza border region in southern Israel.
The manual described taking over IDF positions, capturing kibbutzim and towns in the region, killing and kidnapping residents, and attacking and conquering the three regional cities of Sderot, Ofakim and Netivot.
It described how pick-up trucks would be used to stage the invasion, along with motorbikes and hang-gliders as well as with the use of anti-tank missiles under the cover of rocket and mortar fire from Gaza — in the same way that events unfolded on October 7.
They have already tried to put the blame on Hamas for lulling Izrael into a false sense of security.
But they knew.
The manual also described a strategy to lull Israel into complacency by holding negotiations for some form of long-term arrangement with Hamas, while at the same time staging frequent drills and carrying out small security incidents on the border on Saturdays and Jewish holidays to lull the IDF into a false sense of security when Hamas forces turned up en masse at the border fence.
They have already tried to put the blame on Hamas for lulling Izrael into a false sense of security.
But they knew.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/reports-senior-idf-officer-dismissed-pre-oct-7-intel-on-hamas-invasion-as-fantasy/
This article is archived here
https://archive.is/U2fTQ
and also at the Wayback Machine.
Posted by: librul | Feb 1 2024 13:59 utc | 225
Posted by: stranger | Feb 1 2024 10:54 utc | 200
Posted by: Greg | Feb 1 2024 13:16 utc | 216
Posted by: pq | Feb 1 2024 10:31 utc | 196
I really couldn’t care less what you lot think, and I don’t want to clog the forums with useless shin-kicking as there is something far more important going on than your _perceived_ interpretation of my statements:
However, I will once ang for all do you the courtesy of responding to your your misguided and false accusations:
1. I have never called or advocated for Arab states to burn themselves to the ground in a war against Empire. This was pq’s misguided interpretation as a consequence of him winding himself up to the point where an observationon my part based on principle came across (to him) as an endorsement for a futile kind of violence.
So, despite pq’s extensive, perhaps excessive, erudition he managed to trip over a rather basic point by being so rock-headed that he chose only one way to interpret my words.
There’s another way to interpret things. Of course, with The White Man – his interpretation is the only one, and there’s no possibility of any other interpretation but his own interpretation.
So that should address that charge, dear sirs, in your little Kangaroo court.
2. Fact: I have never endorsed racism on this forum. Not once. Instead I have openly and clearly argued against it in the near decade I’ve been posting here.
You seem to have been triggered by my frequent, ironic and sarcastic use of racial slurs as a mechanism for highlighting the ugliness of racism. At root, this simply means you’re a humourless git with no appreciation for Irony or Sarcasm.
There’s no cure I can offer your for this disease. It is terminal and chronic. I wish you well.
I for one will continue embracing my policy of using racial slurs against all races equally, whether you’re white, black, Indian, Chinese I believe you all deserve a solid dose of racial slurring so that you never forget what it feels like to be at the receiving end of such slurs.
I find it more effective as a policy than the quiet, underhanded implicit racism creeping into societies these days, heavily pushed by those societies that were once the leading purveyors of racism and are now the leading purveyors of a strange kind of Politically Correct Speech which serves merely to mask underlying racism. Get it all out in the open, I say.
As for responding to pq’s hysterics. I won’t unless he/it raises one specific issue and that issue alone at a time.
I do not have time to waste on eclectic walls of text untangling his mixed salad of ailments and complaints.
I also don’t see the value in responding in defence of anything I say that’s clearly being deliberately misconstrued unless it has technical value. In my experience drama queens, like pq, who love to overreact, moralise and generally escalate to 11 over minor points that don’t matter, cannot really be reasoned with: Once they decide to go on a bender there’s no pulling them back till they head straight over a metaphorical cliff.
I’ve seen this with similar posters over the years. Hence my cautions to pq not to lose his shit, instead of piling on explanations where explanations would do no good.
You can’t reason with a rock.
The End
Hopefully you can get back to your usual programming now, I for one certainly will.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 1 2024 14:04 utc | 226
Posted by: RLTW | Feb 1 2024 7:37 utc | 173
Posted by: canuck | Feb 1 2024 13:13 utc | 214
“Get a room. Nail a sign to the door.
Monomaniacs. Do not disturb.”
Posted by: sln2002 | Feb 1 2024 13:17 utc | 217
No rebuttal, no counter argument just ad hominens?
People , like you, who stoop to ad hominens only illustrate their lack of intellectual ammunition.
Anyways, have a good day.
Posted by: Mark2 | Feb 1 2024 13:58 utc | 224
I have to disagree.
Right now we are seeing our arguments censored across all levels of media.
We can’t oppose that without letting the other side have their say, that would be hypocritical.
We have to make our case on its merits.
If not permitted then we cry foul.
Posted by: Walt | Feb 1 2024 14:10 utc | 228
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 1 2024 13:38 utc | 222
a memo in January ordering them to be on standby to support potential US ground involvement in Gaza Nov 3?
[…]
I read that yesterday and dismissed it for two reasons. First, stale news.
The document does not suggest US ground operations in Gaza are definitely going to happen, but it does demonstrate the lengths (Operation Prosperity Guardian?) the US might be willing to go to support the Israeli slaughter of Palestinians. Israel has been receiving support from US special operations soldiers on intelligence matters, but there’s no indication US troops have been on the ground in Gaza.
Second, The Intercept “journalist” pool intrigues. Pretty sordid training camp for the Omidyar set.
Posted by: sln2002 | Feb 1 2024 14:12 utc | 230
I have seen any number of racist comments against various groups. Should I forget Bungling Archer’s racist statements on Indians which I remember because they were so numerous? I think Hindutva is a dangerous ideology but there’s a way to write about it without resorting to racial slurs. Others insult indigenous peoples or blacks.
Posted by: pq | Feb 1 2024 10:11 utc | 192
In case you haven’t noticed there’s a specific reason I use the term “Hindutva” and not “Hindu” or “Indian”.
It is specifically out of sensitivity to Indians and Hindus that I do so.
Hindutva is an IDEOLOGY. Not a race. Get that straight.
You should now be able to follow the trail of my thinking, realise that you’ve tangled yourself up in wild imaginings of me making racist statements, and hopefully you can avoid further ad hominems.
My advice: Whatever medication you’re on, have it checked out by an expert.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 1 2024 14:13 utc | 231
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 1 2024 14:04 utc | 226
I for one much appreciate your contributions so do stick with your standpoint.
Posted by: Walt | Feb 1 2024 14:16 utc | 232
“My advice: Whatever medication you’re on, have it checked out by an expert.”
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Feb 1 2024 14:13 utc | 231
Arch you are much too knowledgeable to stoop to crude ad hominens as above. pq doesn’t deserve this abuse.
Kindly please use your intellectual prowess to build an idea, a theme rather than to waste your time throwing gas on a destructive fire maiming your own credibility.