Five fingers
1) The full Izraeli leadership, military, intelligence and political, were given Hamas’ Oct 7th jail break plan as much as a year in advance.
2) The decision up and down the military/intelligence chain of command was made to stop monitoring Hamas’ tactical radio network months before Oct 7th.
3) The majority of IDF forces around the Gaza border were temporarily moved to the West Bank just prior to Oct 7th
4) Support troops did not arrive in force to repel Hamas for several hours.
5) The Hannibal Doctrine was implemented which accounted for many if not most of the casualties.

Posted by: librul | Jan 28 2024 15:28 utc | 4

israel had this latest smear campaign, against the UN relief agency, all prepared as it anticipated losing at the ICJ. Vile human being being vile, with their faithful dual citizens in the US government.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Jan 28 2024 15:14 utc | 2
Good point.
Reeks of a concerted plan.
Plus the concerted withdrawal of funds.
Very convenient.

Posted by: jpc | Jan 28 2024 15:45 utc | 6

Its like the Zionist entity is about to escalate the situation at its northern front. Southfront is reporting a build up and live drills there.
https://southfront.press/israeli-army-increases-readiness-on-front-with-lebanon-amid-reports-of-near-invasion-video/

Posted by: Crouchingtiger | Jan 28 2024 16:00 utc | 8

Palestine TV journalist Amr Al Dahoudi collapsed live on air while reporting from Gaza.
Gaza’s journalists are facing the same conditions as the rest of Gaza’s population: extreme malnutrition, exhaustion, emotional and physical trauma, disease and very often death.
Since the beginning of the genocide, at least 120 Palestinian journalists have been killed. For context, in the entire war on Afghanistan from 2001 to 2022, 65 journalists and media workers were killed.
https://t.me/VanessaBeeley/24428

Posted by: Pq | Jan 28 2024 16:18 utc | 10

How the “Global Cynic Armada” (so well represented in MoA threads) reacts to the ICJ ruling on Palestine, from Pepe Escobar:
Whatever happens next, the hyper-committed Global Cynic Armada will not relent. The ICJ ordering Israel to “take all measures to prevent death and injury” certainly can be interpreted as calling for a ceasefire, without mentioning the magic word.
But what the Global Cynic Armada really sees is four interlinked toxic items: No ceasefire; kill the Palestinians, but softly; feed them before you kill them; and you still have one full month to engage in widespread killing.
https://strategic-culture.su/news/2024/01/27/will-a-south-african-victory-stop-the-gaza-genocide/
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jan 28 2024 15:39 utc | 5
It’s not cynical to recognize that, despite the bravery a few ICJ judges, there is no solution to Gaza or any of the problems in the west through imperialist dominated institutions. What is required, social revolution to put the tops of finance capital, the Pentagon, intelligence, Hollywood and silicon valley in the dock, may not be palatable to some, but it is the only way forward. Pepe is pretty good reporter, but no amazing thinker and certainly not a workers leader. I read him, but I wouldn’t follow him and I don’t expect much more from him than to dis imperialism and cheer on Russia/China.
Nonetheless, the brief of SA and the ruling are valuable historical markers of the depravity and fatal decline of western imperialism. I’ll give you that much.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Jan 28 2024 16:30 utc | 12

Everyone has a camera except near the US base recently attacked in Jordan.

Posted by: too scents | Jan 28 2024 16:54 utc | 14

Since israeli armor losses are sometimes brought up, bear in mind that in addition to older Merkava models the Magach 7 should still be in storage and make do in a pinch. Abrams would be also be sent if necessary.

Posted by: Satepestage | Jan 28 2024 17:21 utc | 16

“ICJ ruling: South Africa’s triumph bears an incredible shift in the imperial global order’
by Zeenat Adam
https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/icj-ruling-south-africa-triumph-shift-imperial-global-order

Posted by: bevin | Jan 28 2024 17:32 utc | 18

Reuters shows on message consistency with the following postinng title
Three US service members killed, 34 wounded in Jordan drone attack linked to Iran
Its Iran
Its Iran
Its Iran
Its Iran
Iran is under the nuke umbrella of Russia and I suspect China so this bloviating is just that, hot air.
I am also reading that Jordan is saying it didn’t happen in their country….Here come the body bags.
All those brain injured need QEEG therapy like I healed my TBI with but it is unlikely they will get it because it is not a profit making therapy and drugs are much more profitable….and then they are hooked into the bio-chemical world for profit

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 28 2024 17:36 utc | 20

The U.S. base hit by drone attack is being identified by Jordanian officials as al-Tanf, basically at the Syria-Iraq border. U.S. has had a “special operations base” there since 2016, ostensibly to fight ISIS, but used more for pressure on local militias and to choke off the nearby Baghdad-Damascus highway.
Just one week ago, the US media led by NY Times reported U.S. deaths in the region would result in direct attacks on Iran. Israel is already stepping up in Lebanon. Will the axis-of-genocide make a big move to change the global conversation from Gaza to wider regional conflagration?

Posted by: jayc | Jan 28 2024 18:10 utc | 22

Re the drone attack in Jordan.
It never ceases to amaze me how quickly they can establish the source of an attack and attribute it to “Iran backed terrorists”.
The first and foremost suspects would of course be Mossad as the timing of this attack is impeccable. We have all been waiting for the first false flag attack.

Posted by: Sir Reginald | Jan 28 2024 18:51 utc | 24

Lying western media cannot even tell the truth about geography.
Al-Tanf is in occupied Syria. Unless some tiny part crosses the border.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Jan 28 2024 19:14 utc | 26

there is no solution to Gaza or any of the problems in the west through imperialist dominated institutions…
@ Ahenobarbus | Jan 28 2024 16:30 utc | 12
“Imperialist dominated institutions” might or might not include ICJ along with the UN’s General Assembly. More precisely: The strength of imperial domination varies. I was surprised to find that even US and Israel judges of the World Court were not entirely dominated by their respective countries.
It might turn out that any work with the UN is entirely futile, but I doubt it. Craig Murray seems to have the right spirit: chipping away at the global imperial edifice, at any available weakness.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jan 28 2024 19:23 utc | 28

3 Dead and 34 injured.
Does that seem logical?
Of 34 injured, many would likely be clinging to life.
I guess if they draw a few breaths before they expire, they’re counted as injured.
So many lies all the time.

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Jan 28 2024 19:25 utc | 30

Al Tanf in Syria is where the oil is stolen by “The West” as it is guarded by US Military.
Wall Street Journal says it’s Jordan.

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Jan 28 2024 19:31 utc | 32

Did any of you happen to catch the brilliant discussion yesterday at Consortium News regarding the genocide case South Africa brought against Israel in the ICJ? Craig Murray @ 1:06:00 has pretty strong words to say about the second day and being “shaken by some the the things the Israeli lawyers were saying… that they must of known not to be true”. In fact, Murray described feeling “in the presence of evil” after hearing “lie after lie, big lies” that were being told by the Israeli legal team. “It felt horrible to be there and listen to it.”
https://consortiumnews.com/2024/01/27/watch-cn-live-icj-rules-on-israel/
Posted by: thecelticwithinme | Jan 28 2024 17:09 utc | 15

Many thanks for that post … it goes far in explaining some of the intricacies of the ICJ ruling for some of us without sufficient legal knowledge …

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jan 28 2024 19:34 utc | 34

The first and foremost suspects would of course be Mossad as the timing of this attack is impeccable.
@ Sir Reginald | Jan 28 2024 18:51 utc | 24
Good point. Makes me feel dull-witted for not thinking of it first.
Political awareness in this world could be greatly enhanced by more readership of detective fiction: likely suspects, unreliable accounts, official obstruction. Masters of the form such as Dorothy Sayers and Raymond Chandler provide readers with so much enjoyment, they don’t realize it also strengthens basic cognitive facilities people need to make sense of things. Mental floss!

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jan 28 2024 19:37 utc | 36

Sir Reginald @ 24
jpc @ 29
All of a sudden I’m wondering if this could very well be a false-flag by ZATO on their own forces to accomplish multiple goals/objectives in the region.

Posted by: bisfugged | Jan 28 2024 19:53 utc | 38

I googled, Al Tanf. Here’s the first entry. “Al-Tanf (Arabic: التَّنْف) is a U.S. military base in an American occupied part of the Homs Governorate, Syria. It is located 24km (15 mi) west of the al-Walid border crossing in the Syrian Desert.” Wikipedia

Posted by: Willow | Jan 28 2024 20:12 utc | 40

Several GOP US senators are urging Biden to bomb Iran now. The usual suspects, Graham, Cotton, Grassely and others. Welcome to the Warring Twenties.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Jan 28 2024 20:13 utc | 42

usual suspects, Graham, Cotton, Grassely and others
Immaculate deception | Jan 28 2024 20:13 utc | 42
Orange boy’s posts are by far the funniest today: “Three years ago, Iran was weak, broke, and totally under control. Thanks to my Maximum Pressure policy, the Iranian Regime could barely scrape two dollars together to fund their terrorist proxies. Then Joe Biden came in and gave Iran billions of dollars, which the Regime has used to spread bloodshed and carnage throughout the Middle East. This attack would NEVER have happened if I was President, not even a chance – Just like the Iranian-backed Hamas attack on Israel would never have happened, the War in Ukraine would never have happened”

Posted by: rk | Jan 28 2024 20:19 utc | 44

karlof1 | Jan 28 2024 19:36 utc | 35 and Lathe Biosas | Jan 28 2024 20:13 utc | 41
OK, thanks to both.
Although I must say that a nuclear power extending its umbrella to another state is a pretty big deal. And insofar as we are touching on matters of deterrence, it would make sense to be open about the nature of the partnership.

Posted by: robin | Jan 28 2024 20:22 utc | 46

Sir Reginald @ 24
jpc @ 29
All of a sudden I’m wondering if this could very well be a false-flag by ZATO on their own forces to accomplish multiple goals/objectives in the region.
Posted by: bisfugged | Jan 28 2024 19:53 utc | 38

Ray McGovern @ 1:18:08 in the video linked above by Posted by: thecelticwithinme | Jan 28 2024 17:09 utc | 15
https://consortiumnews.com/2024/01/27/watch-cn-live-icj-rules-on-israel/

There is a danger that people should be cognisant of, things are not going well for Israel, needless to say. They would very much like to get the US involved in an open hostility with Iran. Neocons in Washington are positively lusting after that kind of thing. Fortunately for the World, the Iranians are not rising to the bait, so where does that leave the Israelis?
Watch out for a false flag attack folks. The Israelis, when push comes to shove, will do what they can to blame Iran for whatever kind of Casus belli they develop and mouse trap the US and the administration into supporting Israel full bore, if I didn’t think there was a 50% percent chance of that then I wouldn’t mention it in this forum. But I do think it is 50% …

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Jan 28 2024 20:26 utc | 48

There is no nuke umbrella possible, once the nukes start flying all agreements go out the window, it is best covered by the sage Mike Tyson’s famous quote, “Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face”.
This is why de Gaulle pulled out of NATO and built France’s independent strategic arsenal, he knew the score. Best thing Russia can do to strengthen its most critical ally is to give Iran the material it needs to build a strategic arsenal, and at the double quick. My guess it already has, or maybe it was done through N.Korea. The smart way to do it is build a robust, accurate, hardened conventional missile system first, then build the warheads ready to install w/o the uranium, then find the uranium. If I was the USA or Israel I would be a bit more circumspect about Iran’s abilities and the quality of my intelligence services, Iran might lag technologically but a country that’s been around for 2500 years is nobody’s fool.
To me it seems improbable that Iran is sailing into the maelstrom of WW3 with the belief that Allah said no nukes. It’s not impossible that the past two decades of civilian plants, nuke scientists, centrifuges, enrichment etc were in part a dodge while Iran sourced the uranium elsewhere. But heck maybe Allah really does prohibit nukes – as he and all other Gods should, and as all humans should respect.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 28 2024 20:37 utc | 50

Posted by: robin | Jan 28 2024 20:22 utc | 46
I think Iran is not under anyone’s “umbrella” because it doesn’t need to. It is not a small player that needs a big brother, it is a huge country that holds enough non-nuclear deterrent on its own, and has demonstrated that.
Plus, it is absolutely crucial for Russia and China that Iran stands tall, hence the joint military drills between all of them.

Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Jan 28 2024 20:40 utc | 52

Our cynicism doesn’t come from the ether.
It is rooted in the self evident reality of the screams of the dying.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 28 2024 15:53 utc | 7
Quite poetic, Arch, I’m impressed.

Posted by: canuck | Jan 28 2024 20:42 utc | 54

Al Tanf in Syria is where the oil is stolen by “The West” as it is guarded by US Military.
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Jan 28 2024 19:31 utc | 32
You are wrong. Look at a map. All the oil is east of the Euphrates. All the pipelines that did exist to bring that oil west are long gone. The territory west of the river is controlled by the Syrian Government so oil transport is impossible.
All the oil, as well as grain, that is stolen by the US exits Syria in its top right corner into Kurdistan. There is no reason to truck it all the way through Iraq to al-Tanf.

Posted by: JohninMK | Jan 28 2024 20:54 utc | 56

Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2024 20:45 utc | 55
It is US stolen land so assume miles not Km.
As to which base got hit, believe the US and it was Tower 22, believe Jordan and it was al-Tanf, believe the Iraqi Islamic Resistance IIR who claim to have done it and it is al-Rukban. No doubt it will become clearer as time passes.
What is clear is that the US is determined not to mention the word Syria in connection with it. Also clear, with a claimed 9 attacks today, is that the IIR have got the bit between their teeth and are determined not to let the Houtis get all the kudos in defending Palestinians.

Posted by: JohninMK | Jan 28 2024 21:04 utc | 58

Also clear, with a claimed 9 attacks today, is that the IIR have got the bit between their teeth and are determined not to let the Houtis get all the kudos in defending Palestinians.
Posted by: JohninMK | Jan 28 2024 21:04 utc | 58
Good point on miles vs km.
Re the quoted sentence – The big picture is interesting. Iran has its own conventional deterrent, which regardless of what many think, may not be sufficient to deter a combined US/Israeli attack, so it also sits under the Russian nuclear umbrella, limiting any attack to conventional weapons.
Iran now holds a unique position in this war of the worlds in the middle east theater.
The big picture I see is Iran support of non state actors, with the nod or blind eye of Russia China. Iran has built up a network of similar minded groups throughout the region that can now work in a coordinated strategy.
US is being hit by constant hit and run/shoot and scoot guerrilla type operations in which the trigger men are ghosts.
A bit hard for me to paint a picture in words, but what I am seeing – US is between a rock and a hard place. It is being stung by wasps in these non state actor strikes, but cannot hit Iran – the coordination center – due to Russian umbrella.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2024 21:27 utc | 60

Posted by: canuck | Jan 28 2024 21:05 utc | 59
It was a great post, mostly because it was articulate and to the point, with a little black humour. I’m not an asshole (as you decreed from on high, though I’ve never had a problem with you), I just had the temerity to suggest good writing is the basis of good communication of ideas. All the woke folks who think lack of education is a virtue were rubbed the wrong way and piled in. From here on in I’m back to infrequent posts but I won’t stint on the effort to reach my reader through careful form and killer content.

Posted by: Patroklos | Jan 28 2024 21:30 utc | 62

jayc @ 63
That conference has been on the calendar since 1948. They’ve been counting the days like a kid waiting for Christmas.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Jan 28 2024 21:48 utc | 64

Regarding UNRWA: There is an ongoing campaign against them. It is the agency helping Palestinians and for that alone they have to be eliminated. Just like the Palestinians themselves.
The latest – that means before the always honest Shin Bet, that which never ever tortures it’s hostages to extract convenient “confessions”, came running with the alledged dirty dozen, was this:

“It is more difficult for us to deal with an ‘idea’. UNRWA is the source of the ‘idea’. The idea is that more and more terrorists are born in all kinds of methods. And it will be impossible to win the war if we do not destroy UNRWA. And this destruction must begin immediately. It is not relevant to talk about the future. The day is NOW. We must act to deal with these threats completely. Or we will miss the opportunity window, as we have already done here several times.”

Statement by Noga Arbell, Senior Fellow, Kohelet Policy Forum, January 4, 2024
Found here: twitter.com/tkatsumi06j/status/1751658605986947401
On Dec 29th the Times of Israel published an article headlined “Israel hoping to push UNRWA out of Gaza post-war – report” with the byline “Foreign Ministry document detailing gradual plan to be presented to cabinet in near future”.
twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1751609810347307285
I don’t know what elaborate plan they need. It’s obviously enough to just allege that some people working for UNRWA are “Khamas” and that they are to be sanctioned into oblivion (seems to be a western obsession). The easily impressed western press and politicians will swallow it hook, line and sinker. Or at least pretend to do it.
Our own ICJ says in a binding albeit preliminary decision that there is plausible cause to accuse Israel of genocide and our governments do not even flinch in their despicable support for exactly those plausible genocidal acts. But the security service of the state that has killed tens of thousands civilians under the pretext of defending itself must be believed without questions. The israeli perception managers lied about 40 beheaded babies, they lied about a baked baby, they lied about a pregnant woman and her unborn baby and so on. The lies are countless and so repetive that they are predictable. And all the way they were creaking about “khamas”. It’s the modus operandi of a known war criminal and everybody knows that. Everybody. And exactly one day after they are being put on trial for genocide they again creak about “khamas” and all those gullible groupies jump as high as they can.
And then they go and take away the scarce piece of bread from little children because of khamas. And feel good about it. Imagine that.

Posted by: Darkness | Jan 28 2024 22:10 utc | 66

In 1867, the great Jewish scholar Abraham Harkavy, in The Jews and Languages of the Slavs, spoke of the Jewish Yiddish language coming from the Khazars. It was, however, a prominent Jew named Arthur Koestler, himself a Zionist Jew, who in 1976 published the book which caused such a sensation. The Thirteenth Tribe was a literary bombshell. Koestler’s accurate work was meant to be a refutation of Hitler and the Nazis, but it had incredible unintended consequences. He wrote:
“The large majority of surviving Jews in the world is of Eastern European—thus perhaps mainly of Khazar—origin. If so, this would mean that their (the Jews) ancestors came not from Canaan but from the Caucasus, once believed to be the cradle of the Aryan race, and that genetically they are more closely related to the Hun, Ulgur, and Magyar tribes than to the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob…The story of the Khazar Empire, as it slowly emerges from the past, begins to look like the most cruel hoax which history has ever perpetrated.”
Koestler, who thought he was doing his fellow Jews a service, was unmercifully attacked by other Zionists who felt he had let the cat out of the bag. If they come from the Khazars and are not of Israelite origin, the Jews had no ancestral claim to the land of Israel. They were not the seed of Abraham but of King Bulan and the people of Khazaria.
As Shlomo Sand, history professor at the University of Tel Aviv, explains it in his outstanding, 2007 book, Invention of the Jewish People, “Without the Old Testament in its hand and the exile of the Jewish people in its memory, Israel would have no justification for annexing Arab Jerusalem and establishing settlements in the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights, and even the Sinai Peninsula.”
If they were Khazars, the title, the “Eternal People” did not apply to them. They would be, in fact, another usurping ethnic conglomerate, falsely claiming to be “Jews” and willing to kill to illegally possess the rightful ancestral lands of the Palestinians. Other books followed, most notably Kevin Brooks’ 1999, The Jews of Khazaria. But these many scholarly books never really became the consensus because of Zionist opposition. As Orwell once wrote, “Whoever controls history controls the world.”

Posted by: todd | Jan 28 2024 22:15 utc | 68

Patroklos | Jan 28 2024 21:30 utc | 62
You bring relevant information to the forum and it is well presented. From what you have said in the past, wordsmithing is a big part of your chosen career progression. Is this a place for wordsmiths only?
Massive geopolitical changes occurring that affect all, from professors to shitkickers.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2024 22:16 utc | 70

The Islamic Republic News Agency reports:

Several American officials have rejected reports and speculations that Iran was behind a drone attack on a US base on the Jordan-Syria border that killed and wounded a number of soldiers.
…
Reuters has cited some unmanned US officials as saying that Iran could not have conducted such attack.
“Iran’s support for the group allegedly behind the attack on the base does not mean that it was carried out by Iran”, one official was quoted by the CBS news channel.

If true, then there are already forces within the American establishment trying to avoid a direct attack to Iran, which would make sense.
I couldn’t find any reference in CBS News or Reuters though.
And I’ve zero clue on what an “unmanned official” is… Some new woke thing?

Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Jan 28 2024 22:25 utc | 72

the “Arab Muslim street” could somehow be radical and violent on seeing injustices against Palestinians.
Posted by: Pq | Jan 28 2024 22:15 utc | 69
Perhaps you are unaccustomed to Lavrov’s sarcasm.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jan 28 2024 22:29 utc | 74

Posted by: silverdogz | Jan 28 2024 22:12 utc | 67
Thanks for the good analysis.
I’m thinking that they can shift the narrative by saying what IRNA posted (i.e. it’s Iranian-supported groups conducted the strike but not Iran per se), bomb the hell out of militants in Syria & Iraq (which have already started to evacuate their positions,) just to show that they’re doing something, then gradually, silently remove US troops from there to avoid such a pitfall again.

Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Jan 28 2024 22:38 utc | 76

“Chairman of the US Army Joint Chiefs of Staff: We are not looking for a war with Iran”
General Charles Brown

Posted by: Milos | Jan 28 2024 22:44 utc | 78

Nah, nothing new about American and Brit officials being “unmanned” – Look at Biden.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 28 2024 22:32 utc | 75
So, next to China’s and Lavrov’s sarcasm, that’s the Iranian’s sarcasm at work…

Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Jan 28 2024 22:48 utc | 80

Considering all Israel has done, including 9/11, including USS Liberty, including now Gaza: is it not likely to use nukes against Iran, if it can expect to get away with it?
Posted by: grunzt | Jan 28 2024 22:45 utc | 79
Nobody wants to see nukes start flying.
I think the first party that would use a nuclear weapon would also be the first to fall. The internal and external outcry would just be too much.
Even Israel. It is no longer sancrosanct.
Regardless, I didn’t mean to come through as saying Iran has no backing. Of course Russia and China stand by it. What I mean is that Iran is no lesser power, it has a huge arsenal of ballistic and cruise missiles that can obliterate Israel, as well as allies all around the region. It has good deterrent.

Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Jan 28 2024 23:01 utc | 82

I can remember when Putin was running around with Bush as a loyal partner in the War of Terror.
Posted by: Pq | Jan 28 2024 22:58 utc | 81
This was around the same time that the US was fomenting (more) Islamic fundamentalist terrorism on RF’s flanks, IIRC. At the very least they were pushing another color revolution or similar scenario in Georgia.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 28 2024 23:08 utc | 84

Cynic | Jan 28 2024 22:28 utc | 73
Pretty much and its the main base, we hear very little of them doing the same out of US bases in eastern Syria. Add to your list extensive training facilities.
The terrorist groups seem to sally forth much as the UK’s Long Range Desert Patrols did, into similar countryside, back in WW2 into the North African desert.

Posted by: JohninMK | Jan 28 2024 23:40 utc | 86

Lathe Biosas | Jan 28 2024 23:33 utc | 85
Thanks.
Hope they have built some proper bunkers and generally hardened the airbase at al-Asad. They could be needing it soon as the tit for tat rolls on..

Posted by: JohninMK | Jan 28 2024 23:44 utc | 88

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2024 22:16 utc | 70
Be careful. They don’t like being called shitkickers. And what makes you think I don’t kick shit? Professors don’t live in an exalted universe. You know perfectly well that most tradies in Oz get paid many times more p/a than a lowly Assoc. Prof. So, the only problem people have here with professors is that we trigger others’ insecurities about themselves. But I’ve not yet heard a cogent argument against education just a lot of people resenting academics. I don’t think I need to apologise for offering my thoughts to this forum, nor will I apologise if I suggest that form and content are inextricable: sometimes ‘flowery language’ is the difference between gibberish and a well-made argument.

Posted by: Patroklos | Jan 29 2024 0:03 utc | 90

I suggest that form and content are inextricable: sometimes ‘flowery language’ is the difference between gibberish and a well-made argument.
@ Patroklos | Jan 29 2024 0:03 utc | 90
Another way of saying it, I think: an ill-phrased idea is no idea at all. Figuring out how to say it is key to thinking it through in the first place. We don’t need to be sticklers for subtleties like the subjunctive mode, but if you read it three times and can’t figure out what the poor fellow is thinking, there’s a problem with the thinker.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jan 29 2024 0:36 utc | 92

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 28 2024 22:16 utc | 70
” But I’ve not yet heard a cogent argument against education”
Posted by: Patroklos | Jan 29 2024 0:03 utc | 90
Here is an argument.
The educated class, the universities, in the 16th centuries scoffed at Galileo and Copernicus . That’s education.
Many professors in Ivy league colleges today believe men can have a baby. That’s education?
Perhaps, if your separated ‘education’ from current teacher and professors who practice this art which , for the most part, teach Sate propaganda I might cut you some rope.

Posted by: canuck | Jan 29 2024 0:44 utc | 94

“They don’t like being called shitkickers.”
“They”? What an arrogant little snot. Truth is that “they” don’t really care unless it is coming from a condescending and arrogant little snot.
“…I’ve not yet heard a cogent argument against education…”
There isn’t one, but is what you do really education? Or are you just a dancing monkey entertaining trust fund punks? How many of your students fail each term? I’m betting none since everyone gets a trophy in cheesy humanities courses entertainment. How could anyone possibly fail that kind of “education” except by simply not showing up?
“You know perfectly well that most tradies in Oz get paid many times more p/a than a lowly Assoc. Prof.”
Butthurt because people with real skills and who do actual productive work get paid more? The latent Nazism oozes from your words.
You know, I am a university instructor too, but I don’t arrogate fancy titles to myself. I am also not a humanities/soft science entertainer either. I teach courses where students actually fail if they cannot demonstrate they have mastered the content by the end of the course. Math (real education) is like that.
“…sometimes ‘flowery language’ is the difference between gibberish and a well-made argument.”
Sure, but most of the time “flowery language” is used to deceive and hide lies. That is why “shitkickers” tend to treat arrogant little snots and their “flowery language” with suspicion and disdain.
And the “shitkickers” are absolutely justified in doing so.

Posted by: William Gruff | Jan 29 2024 1:14 utc | 96

Education covers a lot of ground.
Universities have been known to have different Schools, e.g. a Law School, a Medical School, an Engineering School, a Divinity School, a Music School and even a Liberal Arts School, with Departments such as Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Math and much maligned departments such as English, Philosophy, Social ‘Sciences,’ etc.
Maybe we can skip some of the generalizations?

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Jan 29 2024 1:28 utc | 98

Dick measuring contest thread, I see.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 29 2024 1:36 utc | 100