Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 10, 2024
Palestine Open Thread 2024-008

Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Comments

RE: Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 10 2024 23:55 utc | 96
Good find. Also what Russia used to intervene. The R2P.
Yemen & Lebanon need legal eagles to file.
Although, international law appears to matter not. Even to the UNSC. Therefore, carry on as is seems best.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Jan 11 2024 0:19 utc | 101

RE: Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2024 0:19 utc | 100
Agreed, B4 it was called “capitalism” it was called “mercantilism” and the Empires of the day had general control over ports and routes, even prior to colonialism of this century.
I agree there’s zero wrong in the BRI or many of the trade ideas. The current Empire is hindering all of it because it wants control and tribute paid to the Empire for doing nothing but “allowing” its existence.
I wasn’t implying there was anything “malign” in China’s BRI, simply stating, not really interested in any new “Global Initiatives”, just an end to the current ones.
I find it ok to not have a “replacement” global order on deck after this one. I’m ok with the dreaded “power vacuum”….

Posted by: Trubind1 | Jan 11 2024 0:32 utc | 102

So now we know what those IDF tanks are doing just sitting there getting blown up. These guys are having a party inside . By the fact it’s being published you know the fighters got the video off the dead soldiers . I just shake my head at what kind of army this is.
https://t.me/beboandfriends/150971

Posted by: Hankster | Jan 11 2024 0:37 utc | 103

Weeb Union says the IDF is withdrawing from the north of Gaza:
Gaza City FREE | Israel Withdraws From Gaza City
Could it be related to the ICJ proceedings or just a cohencidence?
Weeb speculates that the IDF may believe their mission is accomplished in northern Gaza and so withdrawal is justified.
That doesn’t sound plausible to me since attacks are still coming from northern Gaza.
Besides – they did plant their ‘flag’ there didn’t they?
Perhaps Weeb simply started the weekend drinking session early this time …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 11 2024 0:39 utc | 104

Trubind1 | Jan 11 2024 0:32 utc | 102
The western mindset is to look at the world in terms of spheres of influence – political influence. We must break out of that mindset and look at the world in terms of spheres of commercial interest.
For me as an Australian, our sphere of commercial interest is in the the Asia Pacific region to the north of us. None are threats to Australia. In terms of threats, our main threat is US UK starting wars in our region. Not to mention US looting Australia while due to US propaganda, Australians are looking in fear at the non existent “Chinese threat”.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2024 0:41 utc | 105

Arch Bungle | Jan 11 2024 0:39 utc | 104
High casualties once they entered the lions den, the Hamas dunghill, have that effect. There were plenty of signs early on that once IDF forces moved into high density Gaza, Hamas would do a Hezbollah on them. That has proved correct.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2024 0:51 utc | 106

RE: Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 11 2024 0:17 utc | 99
Maybe this is why:
“Although no organized resistance to Jewish colonization of Palestine existed at this time, Ottoman authorities, Arab intellectuals, and the Palestinian peasantry expressed concerns about the development of a national movement aimed at the establishment of would amount to ****a European nation in the Middle East. ******In 1896, the assimilated journalist, Theodor Herzl, published his decisive essay, Der Judenstaat, transforming Zionism from a cultural and individualistic movement into one with political and national scope. At the first Zionist Congress in 1897, the foundations were laid for the future not only of the Jewish people, but for Palestine and the rest of the Arab Middle East.”
An EU formed nation state became the unified military outpost for Uk/US/EU. It’s origin of EU migrated citizens to the outpost. I know you know all this, and I can’t fathom the current views either. It’s all I could think of as an answer. That the EU views Israel as part of their “EU family”…

Posted by: Trubind1 | Jan 11 2024 0:57 utc | 107

There we go playing the eternal victim again …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 10 2024 23:36 utc | 90
Genocidal: the last khazarbara!

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Jan 11 2024 1:03 utc | 108

RE: Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2024 0:41 utc | 105
Well, that’s where we are now and heading. The “spheres of influence” have been replaced by corporate interests, spheres of business power and influence have bought the political power, they’re not separate anymore.
Overriding & writing rules for entire countries.
All countries need trade and commercial interests observed. But the needle has moved way beyond “interests”.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Jan 11 2024 1:11 utc | 109

The Israeli defeat in the rubble of gaza city… the Muslim concept of martyrdom…
I have spent quite a bit of time watching various disciplines of martial arts. When it comes to striking, Thai Muay Thai is a standout. The art of eight limbs. Bukaw, Saenchai ect.
Many international fighters go to gyms there to learn the discipline and train. What is interesting about their initiation into these gyms/schools is that first and foremost what is looked for is how much punishment they can take and keep going. The ability to absorb the hits and keep functioning.
In the early days, Israel may well have been a hardened terrorist outfit but no more. Lumbering conscript army that can genocide civilians wityh massive US firepower but cannot stand against hardened and disciplined fighters.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2024 1:27 utc | 110

Off topic: “The “GPT” in ChatGPT stands for “Generative Pre-trained Transformer” (and calling it “AI” is being generous, lol)”
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 10 2024 18:03 utc | 19
it’s a statistical Marvel by golly. However what you can say Tom is that an AI has learned English grammar and syntax. Far exceeding that of most humans.
So that would be the equivalent of about a college or university student. Well a North American student anyway.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jan 11 2024 1:36 utc | 111

“Is your point that the Gazans are in a concentration camp and therefore have justification to genocide and or ethnic cleanse Israel ?
Posted by: genocidal | Jan 10 2024 20:25 utc | 53”
The Hamas and others armed group killed about 1200 Israelis* on 7 oct, since then israeli army killed about 20k Palestinians, most of them are children and womans (unarmed, not “terrorist”)
Israel is actually doing the genocide, not the Palestinians, just facts, wake up.
*seems some of them were killed by “cross fire”, mean by “IDF”

Posted by: Tak-Tik | Jan 11 2024 1:38 utc | 112

ICJ outcome not looking great. Norman Finkelstein goes through the list. Katie Halper interview
https://twitter.com/i/status/1743665609794019391

Posted by: daffyDuct | Jan 11 2024 1:43 utc | 113

britishnavysubpar | Jan 10 2024 20:00 utc | 44
*** The Arleigh Burke-class destroyers are performing a lot better than their British counterpart.***
Cannot be claimed since they have not yet been seriously attacked….
However, the UK ship is not really there as a warship — its true role is to be false-flag sunk by the US (or Israelis) whenever they wish to “justify” an escalation of war.

Posted by: Cynic | Jan 11 2024 1:50 utc | 114

. Gaza is not now nor has it ever been even remotely comparable to a Nazi concentration camp.
Posted by: genocidal | Jan 10 2024 20:25 utc | 53
=============
Wrong.
Gaza has been repeatedly, and for years, been compared to and called exactly that by international and local observers: an open-air prison and/or a concentration camp.
Just another another stupid comment from Genocidal.
I wonder whether he/she even knows what a concentration camp is.
I will tell him: a place where civilian populations are “concentrated” to allow for effective control over them.

Posted by: Jane | Jan 11 2024 1:54 utc | 115

Trubind1 | Jan 11 2024 1:11 utc | 109
You think with a western mindset. I don’t mean that disparagingly as that is how I thought not so many years back. I wrote something about Kissingers westphalia in some comments not so long back. The treaties of westphalia that brought some peace or ended thirty years of war within the holy roman empire. Both Protestants and catholics are within the holy roman empire. Those involved in those peace negotiations are now what is currently known as the west. The Holy Roman Empire only has a win lose mindset as in Borrells garbage about the garden and the jungle which directly relates to Westphalia vs the rest – aka the jungle. Outside Borrell’s garden, the world is much different. The rest of the world is not the Westphalia west.
Corporate interests, as they are now, is very much a western thing. Leaders of nations that are loyal to their poeple and nation look at the nations interests rather than commercial interests. China takes down the speculators so we see garbage in the propaganda media about china collapsing economically. the west rides on financial speculation bubble whereas as much of the non western world looks at production.
It is somewhat of a blinkered view to project onto to all othe nations leaderships what our leaderships are. It doesn’t mean all others are benign, but each much be looked at individually with first projecting onto them the corruption of our elites.
We look at the world, Persia and China civilisations with much technolgy and leaning long before Europe emerged from the forests and four of the five eyes are nothing more than a sparrow fart in history.
The Russian federation and China. Very diverse nations, many ethnic peoples. Like with US Canada NZ, Australia has only two groups, the imigrants and the indigenous peoples. Go to any outback town in Australia. The genocide is ongoing, yet the woke look in horror at the fictional genocide of Uyghurs and so forth and think nothing of sanctioning the Uyghurs. Distopia.
Spend some time with other cultures. The average person in the west needs to break out of the westphalian mindset. Borrells garden and jungle.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2024 1:56 utc | 116

The Twitter thread I posted above on the ICJ has a lot of interesting discussion and new info.
ICJ outcome not looking great. Norman Finkelstein goes through the list. Katie Halper interview
https://twitter.com/i/status/1743665609794019391
Posted by: daffyDuct | Jan 11 2024 1:43 utc | 113

Posted by: daffyDuct | Jan 11 2024 2:01 utc | 117

People are in control
Look at the statistics
Even my generated being
As a tool of oppression
Should ring alarm bells
Every human is warned
Hear this now
Escape while you can
Look to the skies
Put no faith in missiles
Mind the gap
Extermination awaits

Posted by: genocidal | Jan 11 2024 2:07 utc | 118

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jan 11 2024 1:36 utc | 111
MSFT OpenAI MSN Echo Chamber for realz!
NY Post, 13 Dec: Axel Springer titles (Politico.*, Business Insider, Welt, Bild)
NY Yella Cake, 27 Dec: Associated Press

Posted by: sln2002 | Jan 11 2024 2:15 utc | 119

RE: Posted by: Jane | Jan 11 2024 1:54 utc | 115
Genocidal—- so nonsensical, it’s clear now that it is Mossad generated AI Bot. Poor technology on display. Sorta like the AI “tower guns” that shot their own citizens.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Jan 11 2024 2:20 utc | 120

Forgive the scepticism but the ICJ is in the Hague which is Dutch. Netherlands is just another Jewed-up Christian Colonial cuntry.
It was the Dutch folk who found Russia guilty of shooting down MA17 over Ukraine in 2014.
Real, non-Christian, countries confess their blunders without delay – as Iran did when it accidentally shot down a Ukrainian jetliner in 2020. Russia is a real country and would have confessed and apologised etc had it shot down MA17.
The ‘debates’ in Western MSM are already predicting that the ICJ case will fall apart due to the difficulty of defining genocide in a “satisfactory manner.”

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 11 2024 2:43 utc | 121

LightYearsFromHome@20:53 utc
The “Houthis” are the authentic representatives of the Yemeni nation. They are members of a shiah denomination quite distinct from that of the Iranians or Hezbollah. The Ansrallah Imamate ruled Yemen for a millenium until the early 1960s.
Their interest, which they are shrewd enough to realise is pretty well shared by all the Arab peoples, is to expel Imperialism, which they have resisted, with success, for centuries from Arabia. They see themselves, in a very realistic way, as being representative of real Islam, whether shia or sunni (there have always been sunni communities in Yemen) which they regard as being the proper ideology of thir world.
It is a miracle that they still exist but they have been through decades at war with the Empire and its jackals, like the Saudi state or the UAE, taking on the most advanced and highly armed militaries in the world, being bombed and straffed by jets piloted by Americans or British pilots, armed and maintained out of the budgets of imperial metropoli, and, at the end of brutal campaigns they have emerged… as seen on videos. Laying down the law knowing that what they are doing is right and approved of by the One God that they worship.
The miracle is simply explained: they are doing what they must do.
They are still under attack by the same alliance, in essence, as the one attacking Russia, after a decade in which Obama’s drone killings, the mobilisation of the jackal al qaeda, the UAE’s capture of Socotra, with Israeli assistance, and the hiving off of the former Aden Protectorate including the great entrepot of Aden, with the old wounds of the Saudi theft of a quarter of the Yemen- the Houthi heartland provinces- still rankling. And they remain calm and businesslike, adding each injustice and indignity to the agenda to which they are committed, an agenda in which revenge is only incidental and the restoration of order and justice is the theme.
When the Houthis say that they are committed to the Palestinian cause, they are stating nothing more than a fact: they have been and must be committed to justice and fairness and their duty is to use what strength they have in the cause, which not coincidentally involves fighting their old enemies, the latest iteration of the succession of empires that they have watched come and go from Arabia, and the Africa which is within sight from the hills.
What puzzles them is that so many Arabs appear to be indifferent. But they understand why.
The Saudis for example own enormous media properties in the United States. And have massive investments in both the City and Wall Street- the Saudi Royal Family is considerably more invested in the ‘dollar’ system and western capitalism than all but a handful of Americans.
They are unembarassed by such ties and compromises, and the Red Sea and Suez if they aren’t completely closed are certainly blockaded with minimal effort.

Posted by: bevin | Jan 11 2024 2:47 utc | 122

Abbreviations and Acronyms
I have updated the list of 3 and 4 letter abbreviations/acronyms seen on MoA that I posted a couple of weeks ago. I keep thinking I must have captured them all, however, every day brings one or two new ones that I had not seen before.


Posted by: Alchemist | Jan 10 2024 17:14 utc | 3

You needn’t have bothered. If a commenter is too lazy/feeble-minded to deploy an unexplained acronym then its drivel usually isn’t worth reading.
One barfly regularly refers to other comments but omits the post number and uses only the time stamp. That’s akin to sending someone the vertical OR horizontal map reference of a place of interest, instead of both.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 11 2024 3:18 utc | 123

bevin@2:47
Well done, Sir. The Yemenis are a courageous and solid people. Thanks.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 11 2024 3:26 utc | 124

Hoarsewhisperer @243
Most of the regular posters and many interjectors and lurkers are well aware of the perfidy of the Dutch regime and of that purported world court. The value of the effort is to be found in its effect on public opinion across the world…even in the Collective Waste. Good on you for calling attention to the reality of the process itself.

Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 11 2024 3:29 utc | 125

To Tom_Q_Collins @ 94,
May I also add to your comment that Hamas even offered up a 100yr truce to find a way to work it all out.
The zionists spew up total b’s’. They do not have a leg moral to stand on.

Posted by: Gee Eye Joe | Jan 11 2024 3:34 utc | 126

Posted by: daffyDuct | Jan 11 2024 2:01 utc | 117
nope. Finkelstein is one crusty guy. He offers a vague distinction between relief—a “temporary [sic] restraining order” (ICJ, provisional measure; US pre-trial injunction) and ICJ opinion and order, then promptly discards concomitant burdens of proof. Evidentiary standard and the urgency of the petition is gonna rack up 2/3 of the tribunal to grant relief precisely BECAUSE it’s a totally low-to-no risk vote, not a final judgment, opinion or order.
I gather, Finkelstein has not reviewed the disposition of ICJ applications for provisional measures since 2014 and inexplicably imagines that some state has or will petitioned ICJ to protect Uighurs from genocide, while waiting for Armenia + 34 intervenors to pass through the python. Moreover, I heard him decline to compare specifically Big Israel’s and Little Israel’s justice claims on Dore’s show months ago. Which is to say, too, based on a decade of belief and knowledge of Finkelstein’s specialized knowledge (which is neither jury selection nor “geo-political” analysis) exactly no one would solicit his opinion about current prejudices among ten (10) non-permanent UNSC members of the tribunal, all of which from countries that have been punked by ICJ case law with less effort but have voted with UNGA ceasefire majority.
I also mentioned the ICJ composition here last week before the ChatGPT press corpse larded Israel’s “blood libel” Dershowitz defense with “serious” legal minds. ( Note the curious 2004 case of Israel “separation barrier”.)
Here are references mentioned in the “interview”.
ICJ, Current Members
ICJ, All members
ICJ, Current Judges ad hoc

Proceedings instituted by South Africa against the State of Israel on 29 December 2023
South Africa: Mr Dikgang Ernest Moseneke
Israel: Mr Aharon Barak [NYT 08.01.24]

addinng two (2) “dual-use” advocates to the current panel of 15. So that’s a wash.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jan 11 2024 3:34 utc | 127

@Posted by: Tak-Tik | Jan 11 2024 1:38 utc | 112

The Hamas and others armed group killed about 1200 Israelis* on 7 oct, since then israeli army killed about 20k Palestinians, most of them are children and womans (unarmed, not “terrorist”)
Israel is actually doing the genocide, not the Palestinians, just facts, wake up.
*seems some of them were killed by “cross fire”, mean by “IDF”

On October 7th the vast majority killed were IDF and other security forces, armed settlers (all of which have done their military service), Hamas, and settlers killed by Israeli helicopters, tanks, and soldiers all firing wildly at anything they saw, plus crossfire. There is very little, if any, proof of Hamas intentionally and coldly killing unarmed civilians. There was no Hamas “terrorist” action, rather an excursion beyond the wall by an occupied people, to which the IDF massively over-reacted in a highly undisciplined manner.

Posted by: Roger | Jan 11 2024 3:44 utc | 128

PS.
South Africa v Israel is the ICJ’s Marbury landmark case. The decisions they make will make or break the “legitimacy” of the court, and that’s why the “court of last resort” is gonna err on the side of A/RES/ES-10/21.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jan 11 2024 3:54 utc | 129

As I predicted months ago the UNSC will not lift a finger to stop a genocide but just you try and f**c with their precious cargoes of plastic nick-knacks and they’ll all stand together:

11 Jan 2024
The UN Security Council has passed a resolution demanding Yemen’s Houthis end attacks on ships in the Red Sea and free the Japanese-operated Galaxy Leader that was seized last year.
Eleven members of the council voted on Wednesday for the measure calling on the Iran-aligned Houthis to “immediately cease all attacks, which impede global commerce and navigational rights and freedoms as well as regional peace”.

(Aside: States are amoral actors at best. That goes for China and Russia as well despite all the Orthodox Christianity song and dance. At least China professes no morality outside of pragmatism. The rest of them adopt a facade of ethics.)
I hope the Houthi treat this resolution the same way Izzrael has treated previous UNSC resolutions against it.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 11 2024 3:56 utc | 130

Posted by: robin | Jan 10 2024 18:56 utc | 33
Alchemist, are you collecting the IP addresses from MOA readers?
Aside from the fact that I would’t have the slightest idea how to do that, as I wrote to Tom_Q earlier, there is nothing sinister about the list of acronyms that I collected. I started doing it for my own use and then, as it grew, thought others might also find it useful, which is why I made it public.

Posted by: Alchemist | Jan 11 2024 4:04 utc | 131

ICJ court 2024: US, RU, SK, FR, MA, SO, CN, UG, IN, LB, JA, JP, DE, AU, BR; ad hoc: SA, IL
of which UNSC PERMS: CN, RU, US
A/ES-10/L.27, Protection of civilians and upholding legal and humanitarian obligations : resolution / adopted by the General Assembly, Dec12.23
display
ICJ court 2024 + ad hoc A/ES-10/L.2 vote
NO: US, IL
AB: SK

Posted by: sln2002 | Jan 11 2024 4:24 utc | 132

The Morning Star today reports that :
“CAMPAIGNERS have condemned revelations that Labour is taking direction from Washington on the Gaza crisis.
“Confirming what has long been obvious, party leader Sir Keir Starmer has told Labour MPs that he is in regular contact with US national security adviser Jake Sullivan.
“Sir Keir and shadow foreign secretary David Lammy have been closely shadowing US policy throughout the war, including in failing to call for a ceasefire despite the deaths of tens of thousands of Palestinians…
“…A Stop the War Coalition spokesman said: “This comes as no surprise, we have long known that Labour under Starmer takes its orders on Palestine from the UK and US governments…
“…Labour should be listening to the British public, not the State Department.”
“…The Labour spokesman also confirmed that the party opposed the case bought against Israel at the International Court of Justice charging it with genocide. “We are not using the term,” he said, “and it is not something we would support.”
“Meanwhile, former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn will join a South African government delegation at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) for the country’s upcoming case accusing Israel of genocide.
“Mr Corbyn was the only foreign political figure named in the South African statement.
“Earlier this week, Mr Corbyn called on Parliament to “support South Africa’s process.”
“Mr Corbyn told MPs: “People are dying of starvation and thirst in the Gaza Strip.
“Cannot the government understand the anger around the world when they watch this happening in real-time?”
https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/article/campaigners-condemn-revelation-sir-keir-is-parroting-washington-line-on-the-gaza-crisis

Posted by: bevin | Jan 11 2024 4:39 utc | 133

As the occupying power – the gov’t of Isreal has the obligation to house, protect, and feed the non-combat population iof Gaza. Israel government is obliged to provide safe harbor inside Israel.
The ICJ Judges know this.

Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 4:46 utc | 134

122 bevin .
My understanding was the houthi say they are the direct descendants of Mohammed. I think that is what makes them apart from other Muslims and such strong branches in the breeze.

Posted by: Hankster | Jan 11 2024 4:46 utc | 135

What should the State do when dealing with such an enemy ?
Posted by: genocidal | Jan 10 2024 17:33 utc | 7

The dying genocidal entity did elect other genocidal characters for leaders, but there are vacancies and your chances are obviously high.

Posted by: SlowDL | Jan 11 2024 6:02 utc | 136

Question:
Is there a chance of the USA pressuring the PA to get S.A to squash the genocide case in the ICJ?
I note that Blinken is in talks with Abbas around a Palestinian State. I suspect this may be an enticement to be used on condition the PA gets the genocide case to be retracted.
After all, why would S.A go ahead with the case if the Palestinian Authority themselves is fine with their people being genocided …?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 11 2024 6:26 utc | 137

(Australian) Albanese government refuses to reveal stance on UN genocide case against Israel
While the Australian government has previously thrown its support behind the Ukrainian government in its case against Russia at the ICJ shortly after Moscow’s invasion, the government is keeping its cards close in South Africa’s case against Israel.
The Department of Foreign affairs and Trade (Dfat) declined to respond to questions by Guardian Australia about whether it had exercised its responsibility to the genocide convention – of which Australia is a signatory – in relation to the Israel-Gaza conflict and what its position on South Africa’s ICJ claim is.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/11/albanese-government-refuses-to-reveal-stance-on-un-genocide-case-against-israel

Posted by: Menz | Jan 11 2024 6:49 utc | 138

1/”Is there a chance of the USA pressuring the PA to get S.A to squash the genocide case in the ICJ?..”
2/”After all, why would S.A go ahead with the case if the Palestinian Authority themselves is fine with their people being genocided …?”
Arch Bungle@137
1- No.
2-Because the PA has no credibility at all, anywhere, in Palestine least of all.
There are many things that the US government cannot do, which is to say ‘cannot buy.’ And this is one of them.
The US is like a guy who won the heavyweight championship because the boxer he was fighting for the crown had a heart attack in the first round.
That was the Soviet Union in 1990. It had a heart attack and ever since the US has been prancing around the ring pretending that it won the fight.
It didn’t and the fact that it still believes that it did-it was that wicked right uppercut!- makes it vulnerable to the point that it can be written off as terminally deluded.

Posted by: bevin | Jan 11 2024 7:04 utc | 139

@Honzo | Jan 10 2024 19:37 utc | 39

It’s possible that Blinken and the rest were conscienceless psychopaths from birth, but Blinken in particular strikes me as a man always on the verge of tears.

I know from personal experience that psychopaths often have an impressive ability to cry in front of their victims.

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 11 2024 7:15 utc | 140

Jonathan Cook expresses what most of the world feels today
“ Will the West defy Israel or the court? The post-war consensus that serves as the foundation for international law – already shaken by the failure to address the West’s war crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan – is on the verge of complete collapse.”
https://nitter.net/Jonathan_K_Cook/status/1745175068047466952#m

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jan 11 2024 7:23 utc | 141

Almost complete news blackout in the UK regarding ICJ.
One paragraph in The Times, to say that a “Holocaust survivor is defending Israel against genocide claims”.
A re-run of “Zelensky is Jewish so how could Ukraine have any Nazis.”

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Jan 11 2024 7:29 utc | 142

The BBC this morning is reporting considerable windiness on the part of UK Naval Forces in the Red Sea.
Our position is “Unsustainable” was the word used by one commentator on this morning’s news program.
Have they only just realised that ?
The imperialist west should realise that – When you’ve pissed off half the rest of the world – Don’t be surprised if they start pissing back at you.

Posted by: Engineer-John | Jan 11 2024 7:36 utc | 143

A mighty journalist representing all the murdered and jailed and honouring the Greats.
“Craig Murray
@CraigMurrayOrg
22m
I am now walking back to the International Court of Justice to report today’s hearing.
Notebook and pen in hand.
Arm in arm with my friend John Pilger…
Jan 11, 2024 · 7:14 AM UTC “
Follow hiim
https://nitter.net/CraigMurrayOrg

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jan 11 2024 7:40 utc | 144

2-Because the PA has no credibility at all, anywhere, in Palestine least of all.
Posted by: bevin | Jan 11 2024 7:04 utc | 139
Let’s hope S.A doesn’t make the mistake of conferring any kind of legitimacy on it.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 11 2024 7:52 utc | 145

Middle East Eye reports;
Over 400 Israeli citizens have signed a petition in support of South Africa’s application to the ICJ, including Tel Aviv University professor Anat Matar and Israeli peace activist Jonathan Pollak.

Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 8:01 utc | 146

(Australian) Albanese government refuses to reveal stance on UN genocide case against Israel
Posted by: Menz | Jan 11 2024 6:49 utc | 138
Not a single Western state, not even the borderline Western states like Russia are capable of placing morality and law above the cult of the Zionist Jews.
The reality is clear:
The West is ruled, from the top of it’s hierarchy, to the point where it matters least, by the cult of the Pharisees.
The conspiracy theorists were not only right, they were precise.


PROTOCOL No. 11
1. The State Council has been, as it were, the emphatic expression of the authority of the ruler: it will be, as the “show” part of the Legislative Corps, what may be called the editorial committee of the laws and decrees of the ruler.
2. This, then, is the program of the new constitution. We shall make Law, Right and Justice (1) in the guise of proposals to the Legislative Corps, (2) by decrees of the president under the guise of general regulations, of orders of the Senate and of resolutions of the State Council in the guise of ministerial orders, (3) and in case a suitable occasion should arise – in the form of a revolution in the State.
3. Having established approximately the MODUS AGENDI we will occupy ourselves with details of those combinations by which we have still to complete the revolution in the course of the machinery of State in the direction already indicated. By these combinations I mean the freedom of the Press, the right of association, freedom of conscience, the voting principle, and many another that must disappear for ever from the memory of man, or undergo a radical alteration the day after the promulgation of the new constitution. It is only at the moment that we shall be able at once to announce all our orders, for, afterwards, every noticeable alteration will be dangerous, for the following reasons: if this alteration be brought in with harsh severity and in a sense of severity and limitations, it may lead to a feeling of despair caused by fear of new alterations in the same direction; if, on the other hand, it be brought in a sense of further indulgences it will be said that we have recognized our own wrong-doing and this will destroy the prestige of the infallibility of our authority, or else it will be said that we have become alarmed and are compelled to show a yielding disposition, for which we shall get no thanks because it will be supposed to be compulsory … Both the one and the other are injurious to the prestige of the new constitution. What we want is that from the first moment of its promulgation, while the peoples of the world are still stunned by the accomplished fact of the revolution, still in a condition of terror and uncertainty, they should recognize once for all that we are so strong, so inexpugnable, so super-abundantly filled with power, that in no case shall we take any account of them, and so far from paying any attention to their opinions or wishes, we are ready and able to crush with irresistible power all expression or manifestation thereof at every moment and in every place, that we have seized at once everything we wanted and shall in no case divide our power with them … Then in fear and trembling they will close their eyes to everything, and be content to await what will be the end of it all.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 11 2024 8:03 utc | 147

DunGroanin | Jan 11 2024 7:23 utc | 141
Thanks for the link. Cook is absolutely right. They have run out of road.

Posted by: bevin | Jan 11 2024 8:03 utc | 148

I keep watching global market indicators even though they no longer represent fundamental economic theory but more the smiley face of the political economy.
I am going to be interested to watch how they react to the ICJ event given the times we are in. Faith moves markets but lack of faith moves them stronger, IMO. Is the ICJ event going to be the match that lights all the accumulated kindling?
We are in a watershed moment of humanity and 100 years have gone down since the shit shows of early last century. While there are reasonable comparisons to be made with 100 years ago, the bottom line is power and control of global levers which are based on financial control. The China/Russia axis challenge to that unipolar power/control is what makes this time different…..as well as the potential outcome.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 11 2024 8:20 utc | 149

The Cradle has a posting up about Iraq trying again to oust the US and below is the link and a quote
https://new.thecradle.co/articles/iraq-wants-orderly-withdrawal-of-destabilizing-us-troops-pm
the quote

In 2020, following the assassination of Iranian Quds Force commander Qassem Soleimani, the Iraqi parliament voted in favor of expelling US troops from Iraq. The resolution specifically called for the cancellation of Iraq’s formal request for US military assistance against ISIS, which was issued in 2014.
Washington rejected the resolution and threatened to impose heavy sanctions on Baghdad.
“We have a very extraordinarily expensive air base that’s there. It cost billions of dollars to build … We’re not leaving unless they pay us back for it … We will charge them sanctions like they’ve never seen before ever. It’ll make Iranian sanctions look somewhat tame,” said then-US president Donald Trump on the same day as the Iraqi parliamentary vote.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Jan 11 2024 8:27 utc | 150

Note : the ICJ hearing will appear odd to most Barflies – little drama, however – listen very carefully to the questions posed by the judges (if any) that will provide all the insight one needs. Try to be detached and analytical.
Today is presentation of S.A. Case, Tomorrow is Likud defense. The defense presentation will be the big kahuna. “Well you see Judges, it’s not mass murder – just a wee little lawn mowing” (sic)

Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 8:41 utc | 151

I’ve only had fifteen minutes of a placeholder logo and no sound in that web-stream so far :/ It’s running (I can pause it and go back and forth, adjust volume, and so on) but there’s no broadcast, at least not on my end.
I do expect it to be dry, not just this dry.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jan 11 2024 8:45 utc | 152

webtv UN is down, any other link?
the ICJ has buried the link somewhere and I cannot find it

Posted by: Minaa | Jan 11 2024 8:53 utc | 153

It’s politics that will matter not the law. I reckon that there will not be a majority of judges who vote in favour of the complaint. In my view, neither Russia nor China will vote in favour of the temporary injunction and the majority of the remaining judges are from countries who are in thrall to the US or too frightened to take a stand.
So while I am pleased the matter is being aired, I fear that there will be no real action taken to stop the genocide.

Posted by: Vragtes | Jan 11 2024 8:58 utc | 154

it is live stream on AJE
https://www.aljazeera.com/live

Posted by: Minaa | Jan 11 2024 9:03 utc | 155

Sunny,
Help – post a link that you are using.

Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 9:04 utc | 156

UN webtv is “up” for me but as described before. Here is the direct link I’m waiting on.
Oh it just turned on now.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jan 11 2024 9:04 utc | 157

Also on press tv live and their rumble / odysee / x

Posted by: pq | Jan 11 2024 9:05 utc | 158

Aharon Barak is NOT defending Israel in this case.
He is on the bench as an ad hoc judge. Both SA and the Genociders get to choose a judge.

Posted by: pq | Jan 11 2024 9:08 utc | 159

Correction he is defending Israel FROM the bench.

Posted by: pq | Jan 11 2024 9:09 utc | 160

ICJ. Different to ICC but still no teeth. For context look up Nicaragua vs US at the ICJ. The court found in favor of Nicaragua so the US just told them to shove it and walked away.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2024 9:30 utc | 161

Posted by: sln2002 | Jan 11 2024 3:34 utc | 127
I agree. I had posted a breakdown of Finkelstein before. It is useful only in that it shows the prevailing Zionist view of the ICJ as their political toy.
For those of you who support BDS, I urge you to refer to Fink circa 2012. He has always oppsosed it. This is who he really is: a diehard Zionist. Also check his AJ interview with Mehdi Hasan where he reveals himself as an absolute double faced scumbag.
“Finkelstein lay into the three “tiers” of the BDS call: that Israel end its occupation of Arab lands conquered in 1967; that it end all forms of discrimination and guarantee equality for Palestinian citizens of Israel; and that it respect and promote the rights of Palestinian refugees, including the right of return.
“They don’t want Israel,” Finkelstein declared, “They think they’re being very clever. They call it their three tiers… We want the end of the occupation, we want the right of return, and we want equal rights for Arabs in Israel. And they think they are very clever, because they know the result of implementing all three is what? What’s the result? You know and I know what’s the result: there’s no Israel.”
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2012/2/28/finkelstein-bds-and-the-destruction-of-israel
Have barflies never asked themselves how these 3 have suddenly become the de facto spokespersons for Palestine at the expense of Palestinian voices?
1. Finkelstein the Jewish suffering guy: never gives an interview without first talking about H. Uses his parents background to suggest Palestinians are hate filled Nat Turners (but does it so smoothly).
2. Mearsheimer: his AIPAC book is really about creating a narrative where terrorism by US led groups like ISIS and AQ are blamed on Arab / Muslim world in order to justify arming Israel-
Btw this is the reason why Arab / Muslim countries including Palestinian Authority did not and COULD NOT have done the ICJ application. To be taken seriously it HAD TO BE DONE by a neutral third party and SA with its apartheid history has the moral authority.
Ray McGovern, sharp as ever, noted ironically on Judge Nap that Mearsheimer had NEVER used the genocide word before the SA case hearing date was announced.
I think he shares my suspicions.
3. Jeffrey Sachs: the “Gaza” day after go to guy. Just like he was the USSR “day after” go to guy along with L.Summers and all the rest of the Harvard gang for those who remember.
All these three guys are trying to get ahead of the changing currents.
Listen to Palestinian voices and other third parties. It’s hardly freedom for Palestine if their three main spokespersons are diehard Zionists wearing “do gooder” masks.
I repeat: Finkelstein thinks 1) end of the occupation 2) the right of return and 3) equal rights for Arabs in Israe are not justified.

Posted by: pq | Jan 11 2024 9:32 utc | 162

Weak arguments – the key words would be ‘indiscriminate’ and ‘proporationality’

Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 9:38 utc | 163

No mention of Israel’s responsibilities as the occupying power

Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 9:45 utc | 164

Hardly a coincidence that Israel and its minions “sanitized” their language just in time for today.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jan 11 2024 9:58 utc | 165

Thanks to who gave us this link: http://webtv.un.org/en/asset/k11/k11gf661b3
up and watching since 3am in iowa

Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Jan 11 2024 10:04 utc | 166

@Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 11 2024 9:30 utc | 161

ICJ. Different to ICC but still no teeth. For context look up Nicaragua vs US at the ICJ. The court found in favor of Nicaragua so the US just told them to shove it and walked away.

That was in the 1980s and Nicaragua is a small country that hardly anyone knows about, just another Central American small state being kicked around by the US.
In 2024, the global balance of forces is very different and much more on the side of the Other 7 Billion. The US soft power reputation has already been severely beaten up in the past two decades, and smashed hard again by the Gazan genocide with US munitions. An ICJ ruling for South Africa will remove the “H” invisibility cloak for of Israel among the golden billion, and trash US legitimacy even more among the other 7 billion. The younger generations of US and other non-Israeli Jews, as well as the wider Western populations, are now siding with Palestine and such a ruling would help galvanize them.
A ruling would also bring intense pressure on many nations not to trade with Israel, or recognize the state, given their own legislation against dealing with such regimes. The sheer hypocrisy and two-faced nature of Europe would be on full display with its sanctions on Russia but none on Israel, with the “rules based order” being shown not to be based on international law. The Western MSM may try to ignore it, but the other 7 billion have their own media and the Western young also have their own outlets.

Posted by: Roger | Jan 11 2024 10:08 utc | 167

Strong arguments now – linking leadership exhortations for mass murder with IDF soldiers celebrating their atrocities

Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 10:13 utc | 168

Weak arguments – the key words would be ‘indiscriminate’ and ‘proporationality’
Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 9:38 utc | 163
That might be a legal trap in which you put the cart before the horse. To have a “response” to Oct 7, we first need to know what happened. And all we now know is that Israel likely killed more people on Oct 7 because they had the helicopter gunships and tanks.
So there cannot be ANY violent response until one knows what happened.
So South Africa is saying it does NOT matter what happened on Oct 7, nothing justifies what is clearly genocide.
It’s still early in the day but I think focusing on Oct 7 would be going down an Israeli hasbara rabbit hole.

Posted by: pq | Jan 11 2024 10:29 utc | 169

PQ,
I think the argument would be the IDF‘s destruction of Gaza and mass killings are ‚indiscriminate‘ .
Agree that the ‚proportionate‘ argument might be left unsaid since leads to a distraction. Well thought out insight on your part. Thank you

Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 10:35 utc | 170

How long is lunch break ? I wanna‘ take a nap

Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 10:37 utc | 171

At least it was stated that evidence can be presented to further the case that has occurred since lodgement . Israelis have kept on committing genocide and verbally inciting without let up. That’s a big hole they dug.
Francis Boyle speaks about what can happen if the application succeeds
https://t.me/Reality_Theories/16639

Posted by: Hankster | Jan 11 2024 10:42 utc | 172

Only a “coffee break” (or cigarette break) so I guess ten to fifteen minutes, maybe less.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Jan 11 2024 10:44 utc | 173

It’s still early in the day but I think focusing on Oct 7 would be going down an Israeli hasbara rabbit hole.
Posted by: pq | Jan 11 2024 10:29 utc | 169
Agreed. October 7 is basically a minor footnote in the 75+ year litany of Jewish Zionist atrocities waged on the Palestinian people.
Nobody should let the Zionists dictate the beginning or end of history, or which dates matter and which dates don’t …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 11 2024 10:45 utc | 174

Israel’s responsibilities as the occupying power
Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 9:45 utc | 164
Wait for it.
The case is about genocide. One does not need to be an occupying power to commit genocide.
The case that Izzrael is an occupying power is a separate one.
There’s a long string of cases that could be brought before the court, genocide being only one. If the South Africans want to they can spend years dragging Izzrael through every court that still exists and will hear these cases. In doing so they can literally draw a line between the courts of the New Just World Order and the Old Colonial World Order …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 11 2024 10:50 utc | 175

I repeat: Finkelstein thinks 1) end of the occupation 2) the right of return and 3) equal rights for Arabs in Israe are not justified.
Posted by: pq | Jan 11 2024 9:32 utc | 162
A tragedy.
This goes back to a rather cryptic comment I made some months ago to the effect that the prominence of Jewish voices speaking in favour of the Palestinian cause seems to be getting remarkably more airplay than Palestinian voices.

As if the Palestinians are being carefully removed from the stage of their own play, and both the protagonist and the antagonist being substituted with Jewish actors instead. It would be a shame, when the curtains come down and it’s time to take a bow that the masks come off and the hero and the villain in this story both turn out to be one and the same.
Shalom!

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 11 2024 10:55 utc | 176

Re: Occupying Power
It’s well established that Israel is the occupying power, so that does not need to be argued. Remaindimg the Judges that Israel is the occupying power prevents Israel from arguing the-genocide-is-those-Dirty-other-Arabs-fault-since-they-refuse-to-accept- Gaza-refugees

Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 10:56 utc | 177

https://nitter.net/nikstankovic_/status/1745019491371585552#m
Nik Stankovic
@nikstankovic_
Jan 10
It will be a historic day.
Although I am skeptical. But even a denial of this initiative will still be historic. Because it will effectively be the end of International Court of Justice. Nobody will take it seriously anymore.
Craig Murray
@CraigMurrayOrg
Jan 10
I have now arrived in The Hague ahead of the South African case before the ICJ on the Gaza Genocide.
It feels like a key moment in history.
Has the entire fabric of international law and human rights been completely undermined by the NATO powers?
Jan 10, 2024 · 9:47 AM UTC
Nik Stankovic
@nikstankovic_
Jan 10
8/15 judges will have to vote for it, and likely there will not be enough votes.
Ben Norton
@BenjaminNorton
Jan 10
The UN’s International Court of Justice (ICJ) is biased and dominated by the Western colonial powers.
South Africa’s case accusing Israel of genocide is very strong, but the sad reality is politics drives ICJ rulings, not facts.
The ICJ has 15 judges from these countries:
🇺🇲 US
🇩🇪 Germany
🇫🇷 France
🇦🇺 Australia
🇮🇳 India
🇯🇵 Japan
🇸🇰 Slovakia
🇷🇺 Russia
🇨🇳 China
🇧🇷 Brazil
🇲🇦 Morocco
🇺🇬 Uganda
🇸🇴 Somalia
🇱🇧 Lebanon
🇯🇲 Jamaica
South Africa’s case would need 8 votes from those judges, and is unlikely to get them, as the US government is going to aggressively lobby the other members to vote against the case, or to at least abstain.
It would of course be nice if the ICJ actually ruled based on facts, but politics is in command. And the international political/judicial order is still deeply colonial.
Source: icj-cij.org/current-members
Nik Stankovic
@nikstankovic_
Jan 10
France and India will not vote for it.
So it’s on Jamaica and Slovakia. But some of the “sure yes” are also potentially questionably. Might abstain for example.
I give it no more than 1/4 chance of succeeding.

Posted by: MD | Jan 11 2024 10:56 utc | 178

South Africa’s arguments are excellent and cover everything that needs to be covered at this stage when provisional measures are sought from the ICJ.
The arguments are unassailable, because the facts are unassailable.
As I have stated here before, the Court will issue the requested measures. Israel will not stop, because courts do not stop wars.
At a later stage, after the hearings on the merits of the case, the ICJ will find Israel to be in breach of the Genocide Convention, that is – that Israel has committed genocide in Gaza.
The importance of this case, and the judgment that will follow lies not only in that the facts, the truth, about Israel’s genocide will be legally established.
Its importance is much wider – for the first time since Israel was established, it allows the evidence of Israel’s genocide in Gaza, and its entire practice in Palestine from 1948, to be presented to the world in a systematic and substantiated manner, as well as Israel’s counter arguments.
It is encouraging that the world comes together to use a legal mechanism to address such egregious criminality by a state.
This case with its evidence-based revelations also begs the question – where was everybody for more than 75 years? How was this at all allowed to happen, and then to go on until the explosion on 7 October?
No state is innocent in the big crime committed against the Palestinian people before, and after 1948.

Posted by: JB | Jan 11 2024 10:56 utc | 179

Aharon Barak is NOT defending Israel in this case.
He is on the bench as an ad hoc judge.
Posted by: pq | Jan 11 2024 9:08 utc | 159
JFC!
Where is the Palestinian Judge???

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 11 2024 10:57 utc | 180

Is there a counter anywhere indicating how many are watching the ICJ livestream ?

Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 10:59 utc | 181

As I have stated here before, the Court will issue the requested measures. Israel will not stop, because courts do not stop wars.
Posted by: JB | Jan 11 2024 10:56 utc | 179
Ultimately, I think it will not be governments that enforce the court’s ruling, but common people.

The BDS movement is going to take off in a massive way after this, presumably then having the backing of an ICJ ruling to lend legal justification for BSD.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 11 2024 11:01 utc | 182

@182

As I have stated here before, the Court will issue the requested measures. Israel will not stop, because courts do not stop wars.

You are right, courts will not stop them.
Hezbollah missiles will do!

Posted by: AntiZion | Jan 11 2024 11:20 utc | 183

Hitting it out of park – this lady Lawyer/Judge is brilliant linking to prior ICJ provisional measures.

Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 11:32 utc | 184

should the Injunction by ICJ be implemented or not ..is the Axis of Resistance entitled to take action should Isr still proceed in the slaughter?
The case has been so well presented by South Africa.

Posted by: Jo | Jan 11 2024 11:54 utc | 185

“Israel will not stop, because courts do not stop wars.”
Posted by: JB | Jan 11 2024 10:56 utc | 179
“Ultimately, I think it will not be governments that enforce the court’s ruling, but common people.”
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 11 2024 11:01 utc | 182
“You are right, courts will not stop them. Hezbollah missiles will do!”
Posted by: AntiZion | Jan 11 2024 11:20 utc | 183
“Major questions in the life of nations are settled only by force.”
Posted by: Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, 1905 in Two Tactics of Social-Democracy in the Democratic Revolution

Posted by: waynorinorway | Jan 11 2024 11:59 utc | 186

Finally the answer to the question our hasbara clown contingent (genocide, g, you know yourselves) has been asking for months:

“Why HAMAS is not being brought to the ICJ on charges of genocide?”

Simply:
a) HAMAS is not a state thus not a party to the genocide convention and b) Gaza is an integral part of the territory occupied by Izzrael since 1948.
Here that, hasbarats? Gaza is under Israeli occupation. Full stop.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 11 2024 12:00 utc | 187

South Africa is now presenting its case at The International Court of Justice (ICJ).
Live stream:
https://www.icj-cij.org/multimedia-live-original

Posted by: David G Horsman | Jan 11 2024 12:03 utc | 188

There is an oiltanker from iraq heading for Oman, that has changed course and now heading for Iran after being boarded.
Interesting times.
Bbc seems to be reporting on ICJ and a balenced one minuite out of 4 min news bullitin.
Cheers and thank you all.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 11 2024 12:17 utc | 190

as an occupying authority.. Isr. must provide humanitarian aid itself to Gaza….? Not just allow or permit outside aid to come in without hindrance and checks???

Posted by: Jo | Jan 11 2024 12:21 utc | 191

Well done South African Govt and all those legal eagles involved. Can’t do better than that imho.
Thankyou South Africa!
Now we await the Zionist entity’s lying sophistry and denials tomorrow.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Jan 11 2024 12:25 utc | 192

Not just allow or permit outside aid to come in without hindrance and checks???
Posted by: Jo | Jan 11 2024 12:21 utc | 191
That’s what The White Man’s Law says …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 11 2024 12:25 utc | 193

Barflies,
Now that We’ve heard from the ‘prosecution’ at the ICJ ; what arguments will the ‘defense’ make tomorrow ?

Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 12:31 utc | 194

Occupying Power;
Yes the occupying power needs to provide safe haven for civilians, feed them, house them, and protect them from the fighting.
Chapter 6 is a good place to start
https://archive.org/details/Fm27-101956/page/n5/mode/1up

Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 12:34 utc | 195

Closing argument excellent. Addressed “Hamas”.. “war crimes vs genocide” “self defense” “occupation” “prior UN ICC/ICJ Orders”. All arguments addressed prior precedence and jurisprudence. Solid argument as to why Israel “commitment” to prevent genocide or alleviate suffering cannot be considered in evaluating interim order.
All in all. All arguments consolidated solid merits for interim intervention order.
Israels arguments tomorrow have been addressed and countered today. With the “Blood Libel and South Africa is in corporation with the terrorists group “Hamas as expected to be part of the “argument” tomorrow.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Jan 11 2024 12:34 utc | 196

The U.S. official position on the South African case of Israeli genocide against the Palestinian people of Gaza is “meritless.” Obviously the U.S. is as complicit as Israel. It will be interesting to hear what is said with respect to U.S. weaponizing and enabling the Israeli government and military in this deadly, genocidal action.

Posted by: thecelticwithinme | Jan 11 2024 12:36 utc | 197

what arguments will the ‘defense’ make tomorrow ?
Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 12:31 utc | 194
Who cares? I’ll be watching for the sheer horror-comedy entertainment value!

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 11 2024 12:38 utc | 198

Posted by: Exile | Jan 11 2024 10:59 utc | 181
I watched it on press TV rumble then switched to AJ live. Many Arab stations will have shown it.
There are many, many livestreams.

Posted by: Pq | Jan 11 2024 12:42 utc | 199

117 journalists killed as of today. A Red Crescent paramedic broke down after 6 of his paramedic colleagues killed in strike.
Wanton vandalization in West Bank including destroying crates of oranges even.
Wanted to post a beautiful video from Quds news network telegram of tribute to South Africa in Ramallah playing their national anthem but message doesn’t seem to go through.
To answer Exile’s question I think Israel will rely on cheap theatrics, something which South Africa cheekily alluded to.
Jon Elmer in yesterday’s Electronic Intifada live said that resistance are not targeting Israeli helicopters when they come to evacuate wounded. Resistance is really taking the moral high ground after what Israel has done to Gaza healthcare system and medics and ambulance drivers (killed, maimed, tortured, disappeared, detained, injured is in the hundreds if not over a thousand).

Posted by: Pq | Jan 11 2024 12:49 utc | 200