Palestine Open Thread 2024-001
Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.
The current open thread for other issues is here.
Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Posted by b on January 2, 2024 at 14:53 UTC | Permalink
next page »How many western leaders that support Israel’s genocide are in Epstein’s black book?
Posted by: Plainsman | Jan 2 2024 15:31 utc | 2
How many western leaders that support Israel’s genocide are in Epstein’s black book?
Posted by: Plainsman | Jan 2 2024 15:31 utc | 2
Excellent question which one can appreciate if one has read Whitney Webb's exhaustive exploration of the subject (in two volumes): "One Nation under Blackmail".
Posted by: RJPJR | Jan 2 2024 15:40 utc | 3
Meditation #3
Let us imagine that on 7 October the 'Israeli' high command had purposely ordered the IDF and it's related security organs around Gaza to "stand down" or "reduce awareness" to some degree or other.
Let us imagine that on 7 October the 'Israeli' high command had purposely ordered the core defensive organs of the IDF to "go to sleep".
Yet, when we review the events of that day, HAMAS fighters did not attack into "empty space":
- HAMAS attacked manned surveillance towers, not un-manned. These surveillance points were not deserted, attempts were made to respond. Footage of the detection and response (admittedly panicked) was taken.
- Detection was not completely absent.Yes,the detection may not have been as comprehensive as the Izzraelis may have planned ... but in the end, how much "detection" does such a mighty, modern army really require in order to respond to the basics???
- HAMAS engaged security forces in the Kibbutzes directly. The Kibbutzes were not emptied of security forces, there were security forces there with sufficient training (at least on paper) and weaponry (including tanks) to defend the Kibbutzes.
- The Kibbutzes themselves are not filled with civilians. 'Israelis' inhabiting the Kibbutzes have all undergone military training above a certain age, are armed, are aware of the Hamas threat just over the fence.
While the IDF as a whole took several hours to mobilize to meet the threat, why would this even be necessary?
Was it necessary to mobilize the entirety of the "most powerful military in the middle east" just for a few hundred mavericks escaping over a prison fence?
Really?
Given that the entire population of the "Kibbutz belt" providing a "human shield" against Gaza is militarized, why was a massed response by the IDF even required to neutralize the threat?
Conclusion:
It was not a deliberate, planned failure of the IDF or a deliberate, planned intelligence failure by the 'Israeli' high command that led to the catastrophic failure of the IDF on 7 October.
It was a lack of capability to deal with the direct concentrated application of military force applied by the Palestinian Resistance to the machinery of occupation.
Was there a plan to "Let It Happen"? Perhaps. But Izzrael is always looking for an opportunity to "LIHOP" or "MIHOP". Every now and again it gets lucky.
Did the Izzraeli 'intelligence' have the detailed plans of HAMAS' plan of attack for 7 October down in PowerPoint and Excel and still choose to withhold it? Perhaps.
But do you mean to tell me that the only way the IDF and the Kibbutz security forces can defend themselves from HAMAS is to have, in advance, detailed plans of any potential attack??? Have they no adaptability? No ability to respond fluidly to incoming threats at all times? I mean, in war can you really count on your enemy to provide you the attack plans in advance?
Judging by the current performance of Izzraeli ground troops in Gaza, this conclusion becomes all the more plausible as it becomes clear that in a face to face confrontation the IDF is not the equal of the Al Qassam, Al Quds, I.J and other fighters in the strip.
This "hollowness of the IDF" is the real reason for the apparent 'engineered failure' of the IDF in the face of the 7 October Palestinian Special Military Operation.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 15:48 utc | 4
Heheheh
Posted by: Greater Israel | Jan 2 2024 15:48 utc | 4
Hehehe. Your diaper brigades are pulling out for a nappy change as we speak.
Hehehe. Soon you and your furher Netanyahu are going to be tried at the ICJ.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 15:53 utc | 5
Regardless of what else happens, the mask has been permanently ripped off the zionist monster. They will never again enjoy the position they once did. One simple phrase denies them legitimacy while bringing fear and discomfort to those who believe in nothing; Allahu Akbar!
May it echo in your nightmares.
Posted by: liveload | Jan 2 2024 16:04 utc | 6
Oz media recently reported that an Australian-born IOF Captain, Liov Sivan, was killed in Gaza on December 19. He had moved to Oinkrael circa 10 years ago.
There is something wrong with Jews. As a collective with spokespersons, they're pitiless bloodthirsty swine. And yet there are 'nice' jews and anti-"Israel" jews. The trouble is, the bloodthirsty ones have all the power and influence and the good ones are regarded by the bloodthirsty ones as utterly irrelevant to the collective.
So, without a voice, the nice jews are irrelevant and the world should ignore them.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 2 2024 16:05 utc | 7
"Greater Israel" on post 4 is also "USA #1" post 17 on the Ukraine thread.
Posted by: Michael Weddington | Jan 2 2024 16:15 utc | 8
So, without a voice, the nice jews are irrelevant and the world should ignore them.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 2 2024 16:05 utc | 8
This triggers memories of decades old things I've heard others say about things they've seen in the past:
There is something wrong with Nazis. As a collective with spokespersons, they're pitiless bloodthirsty swine. And yet there are 'nice' Nazis and anti-"Hitler" jews. The trouble is, the bloodthirsty ones have all the power and influence and the good ones are regarded by the bloodthirsty ones as utterly irrelevant to the collective.
There is something wrong with the Khmer Rouge. As a collective with spokespersons, they're pitiless bloodthirsty swine. And yet there are 'nice' khmer rouge and anti-"human" khmer rouge. The trouble is, the bloodthirsty ones have all the power and influence and the good ones are regarded by the bloodthirsty ones as utterly irrelevant to the collective.
I think the 'nice' ones are really not as "nice" as we'd like to think, nor the 'good' ones as "good".
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 16:17 utc | 9
Arch Bungle@5
Your sensible analysis is welcome.
It is difficult not to suspect that behind the monomaniacal repetitions of the theory that 'librul' posts, whenever the opportunity to do so presents itself, it is not intended to generate long discussions on what is a complete irrelevance.
All military intelligence systems involve large amounts of deceitful claims, exagerrated reports, provocations and lies. Anyone who doesn't realise this ought to be reading history books not posting opinions on the internet.
Everything about the state of Israel is largely composed of boasts, insanely counter factual assertions and claims of "The Dragons told me I could have it" variety.
In the specific matter of surveillance capability Israel is among the world's leading exporters of this most profitable service- nothing would be more surprising than for them to confess that October 7th demonstrated the worthless nature of their systems and their impotence in the face of even the crudest assaults.
It is unlikely that 'librul' is working for Israel's security industry but he's doing a splendid job for them. Money can't buy an advertising campaign with the reach of a juicy conspiracy theory.
Posted by: bevin | Jan 2 2024 16:20 utc | 10
2.Oct is when these hostilities began with the unproved attack on worshipers at the Al-Aqsa Mosque by 1,500 paramilitaries escorted by troops
Posted by: Exile | Jan 2 2024 16:21 utc | 11
librul, you bring up an important point about a laissez faire conspiracy. And arch brings up another about how this is all going quite poorly for Israel's conspiring government. I ask us to remember a conspiracy can occur and still be an ongoing failure. You don't need a conspiracy to succeed for it to exist, just the attempt to create or allow the conditions and attempt to take advantage of it.
Israel has shown that it does not care about anyone's lives, including its citizens. It is revealed to be an unhinged, heartless monster for everyone involved. And they've talked themselves into a trap of their own making, revealing everything.
The only answer left is a United Palestine, many voices singing equally in harmony.
Posted by: titmouse | Jan 2 2024 16:29 utc | 12
Excerpt from another SITREP
A spokesman for Al-Qassam announced that over the past four days, the Palestinian resistance managed to destroy 71 military vehicles and kill 16 Zionist soldiers, and there were numerous other attacks such as shooting down reconnaissance planes and seizing drones.The Palestinian resistance fighters are continuing to launch various attacks, including targeting a helicopter in the skies over the Strip and raiding Israeli occupation military command rooms and headquarters. The resistance has stated that they intend to continue fighting against the Zionist aggression in the region
Posted by: Exile | Jan 2 2024 16:31 utc | 13
"In the specific matter of surveillance capability Israel is among the world's leading exporters of this most profitable service- nothing would be more surprising than for them to confess that October 7th demonstrated the worthless nature of their systems and their impotence in the face of even the crudest assaults."
Posted by: bevin | Jan 2 2024 16:20 utc | 11
The Hamas military assault was anything but 'crude'; it was extremely well planned, well executed and successful.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 2 2024 16:05 utc | 8
##################
Regardless of the demographic cohort, power always attracts the worst people. Always. That was Frank Herbert's observation. It's not that power corrupts, it's that power attracts the corrupted.
People would be wise to remember that. No matter who is going to lead, the person who pursues power the most is the one who should be kept from it.
And yet, people still believe they can elect good people who will defy gravity. 😂
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jan 2 2024 16:45 utc | 15
... Yet, the Sunni are sitting on the fence - the Resistance at the mo - outside largely Sunni Gaza, is predominantly Shia
Posted by: Don Firineach | Jan 2 2024 0:53 utc | 194
Sorry to post it here, as this from the previous one. It needs elaboration. About shia and sunni. This is not an accusation.
Very simplistic and erroneous way to look at it. Makes very little or no sense. Because both the 'factions' believe in the SAME God and same last Prophet (pbuh). Have the same Book and Teachings of the last Prophet (pbuh). The differences are relatively minor. By highlighting it you may inadvertently facilitate the divide and rule mindset.
Sitting on the fence has nothing to do with religion. It has more to do with ethnicity (regional ethnic mindset), political persuasion, self-esteem and depth of devotion (to Islam) of the leaders (rulers) those ethnically influenced peoples. Remember, it is the rulers that sit on the fence. The population are deprived of political ability. Yet most observers state that 'the muslim populations are fuming'. That in itself should clear the record. The insecure or corrupt rulers are culpable. They fear the life's consequences and not the eternal accountability and recourse. Islam encourages helping fellow Muslims. If they are doing anything wrong, to stop them. If they are being wronged, to help them.
Posted by: sal | Jan 2 2024 16:47 utc | 16
heh heh heh is eating my sandwich and calling me an anti semite
Posted by: Angelo | Jan 2 2024 16:49 utc | 17
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 15:48 utc | 5
#################
From Ukraine to Gaza, we're continually witnessing the weakness of the world's bullies.
Glass jaws and weak stomachs.
The hasbara posters here are funny. The IDF is so poor at combat, which is to be expected for concentration camp prison guards. Even their reservists, every second Moshe and Schlomo is a Lt. Major.
If 10 Palestinian men and 10 Israeli men go into a room, who is coming out?
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jan 2 2024 16:50 utc | 18
Posted by: Angelo | Jan 2 2024 16:49 utc | 18
###############
Did you just post under the wrong name?
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jan 2 2024 16:51 utc | 20
Sunni vs. Shia
Is a divide and conquer trap - don‘t fall for it
Posted by: Exile | Jan 2 2024 16:53 utc | 21
Democracy Now interviews Professor of international law John Boyle who is confident that 'Israel's' actions constitute genocide:
https://youtu.be/ypxiFjrM8RA?si=P7MGzN00UHX6scQl
Professor John Boyle was the first lawyer to obtain a judgement of genocide against Yugoslavia during the Bosnian War at the ICJ as well as two provisional actions to stop the ongoing genocide at the time.
He states, following his detailed review of South Africa's charges that he believes South Africa will succeed in obtaining the provisional measures from the ICJ which will consist of a "cease and desist" order against izzrael and will obtain a determination of "genocide" once the ICJ has deliberated.
He states further that all 153 members of the ICJ will be obligated to prevent the ongoing actions of Israel against the Palestinians once the determination is reached (article 1 of the genocide convention).
If he's correct that the ICJ will follow the course he predicts within the next 1 week (the hearing will be around the 11 January) then I think the US can be expected to apply it's most desperate measures to prevent the ICJ from operating.
However, it looks to me the ICJ is a distributed court, it may not be easy to threaten the judges.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 16:56 utc | 22
again cui bono. One can say that natural gas fields resided few kilometers away from Gaza strip isn't much to bother about. But, if palestinians are given all profit from there - the threat to the Israil will become financially backed and leaded by passionate Hamas which won't depend on foreigh investment used to control it in the Past. Yet, add to this picture US competing project to the Silk Way and Gaza strip location then one could see Gaza under Hamas as a threat to the existence of israeli state.
After kurdish project aimed to establish new cannon fold source for USA ME policy and ease pressure on Israel which was quite busy with it during last decades, came to the stalling points the outlook for Israel isn't good. It either must take side of one superpower to withstand coming challenges or play with both to get something in exchange. But what Israel can offer? Not much. Whoever is going to rule the ME should take opinions of its population into account. Since, China has an opportunity to control and relax sunni shiah fight created on purpose by US after evasion of Iraq Israel's role in China's power balance vision in ME could deteriorate to the point it will not be agreed with.
And third temple - mysticism is for masses, Israel is playing on evangelists feelings to force US to take sides (contrary to what US is trying - building coalition against China by cutting energy and sea transport over the region which is vital by going into negotiations even with Iran). Is Bibi's Israel looking after Trump? Possibly yes. Was the timing of conflict adjusted to coming US elections?
Posted by: asehi | Jan 2 2024 16:59 utc | 23
I'm simply waiting for the third army .... as I noted to Lovedonbass in an earlier thread .... Al Aqsa Flood the catalyst?
"The Quran in a couple of ayahs of Surah Bani Israel clearly implies that Israelis will commit aggression and corruption in the holy land and will be punished exactly as their predecessors experienced during the 1st and 2nd temple. For those who are unaware, 1st & 2nd Temple is commonly referred to the two times that Israelis in their history build their temple and state, and twice both were destroyed due to the divine punishment. Despite having all blessings, revelation and prophets to guide them, they abused their political authority, continuously disobeyed Allah ﷻ and spread corruption in the holy land, exactly as they are doing today, and so they were punished. In both instances of divine punishment, it was an invasion from an enemy that was mighty in warfare, which attacked Israel, killed thousands of them and took thousands as prisoners. This writing aims to briefly explain how the 1st and 2nd temple happened and how today's Zionist Israel with its existing behavior will face a 3rd divine punishment, another army, in the light of Quran and the prophetic predictions."
http://kn-ow.com/article/the-end-of-zionist-israel-in-surah-bani-israel-307/
Posted by: Don Firineach | Jan 2 2024 17:00 utc | 24
interviews Professor of international law John Boyle
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 16:56 utc | 23
Sorry. Francis Boyle.
Not John Boyle.
Omg.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 17:02 utc | 25
Netanyahu wants Alan Dershowitz to represent Israel at the ICJ: Report
2 January 2024 16:45 GMT
Comment - if true, then the Israeli defense is doomed. Dershowitz is great on TV taking softball questions, but his status is 100% due to ethnic nepotism not talent nor skill.
Arch - great post
Posted by: Exile | Jan 2 2024 17:08 utc | 26
There we go again, just when you thought nobody could top 2023, the shitshow gets dialled to eleven:
Israel Conducts Large UAV Strike Against Beirut Suburb, Multiple Dead & Injured
Tyler Durden's Photo
BY TYLER DURDEN
WEDNESDAY, JAN 03, 2024 - 12:27 AM
There are breaking reports via Lebanese state media and AFP saying that Israel has conducted a strike against a Hamas office in a Beirut suburb.Lebanese security sources have said a senior Palestinian official was killed in an explosion in Beirut's southern suburbs, which is also considered a Hezbollah stronghold. However, there is little that is verified at this point. According to breaking news wires:
I'm expecting retaliation against Tel Aviv.
Unless the US has threatened to take out Beirut ...
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 17:08 utc | 27
Sigh. A limited compartmentalized standown is not mutually exclusive of a well planned and executed attack. I think I'll wait for Hamas fighters reactions to October 7 once the dust has settled. Because numerous trustworthy outlets like Grayzone have reported that even they were surprised at how easy it was, how long Israel waited to respond and that they reached so far into Israel that they exceeded their own plans.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 2 2024 17:09 utc | 28
Posted by: Exile | Jan 2 2024 17:08 utc | 26
Can't make this sh** up. I hope Finkelstein shows up as well just to glare at him.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 17:11 utc | 29
From the prev. thread:
------
https://twitter.com/malsaafin/status/1742033344248918127
The Israeli army pulled out of the Gaza City neighborhood of Sheikh Radwan today. This report shows the aftermath: entire areas-homes, schools, clinics-bombed out, bodies decomposing in the streets. This is what the US govt has backed, . . .
Posted by: michaelj72 | Jan 2 2024 14:27 utc | 234
===================
The magnitude of this horror and the depravity of the criminal intent are incomprehensible. These people are psychos.
If I raise my hand against my neighbor---even touch him or her in the course of an argument--- I can be charged with assault.
Words fail utterly. There is no way to think about this and remain even rational.
Posted by: Jane | Jan 2 2024 17:13 utc | 30
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 15:48 utc | 5
You are on a roll with the Meditation Series.
Posted by: pq | Jan 2 2024 17:16 utc | 31
"I expect to see a lot of whining here at MOA in 2024—it will be a GREAT year for the Jewish State but not so good for palestinian vermin!" "Heheheh"
Actually, the vast majority of the civilized population of the world is vehemently opposed both the the treatment of the Arab polulation of the area claimed by the Zionists and more recently and more vehemently the genocidal MURDER of said Arabs (and Christians and others). There is a certain, hard-to-understand hubris on the part of the Zionists at this time, but make no mistake - there will be "blowback". What is happening is beyond the pale and will not be forgotten, ever. The Jews have lost their Victim Card. They have become interntional paraihs.
Posted by: dpy | Jan 2 2024 17:16 utc | 32
Bevin @1620
You have this idee' fixe about "conspiracy theories". Any major deviation from an "acceptable" narrative happens to consistently be a no-go zone with you. As an ideologue, you demonstrate all the makings of a gate-keeper.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 2 2024 17:16 utc | 33
The Shia power is acting; the Sunni power is not.
This is not a divide and rule: simply a statement of a present day fact.
The USA, by the way, has intentionally come down on the side of the Sunni.
China's diplomatic triumph with KSA/Iran must have really pissed off the USA.
Join the dots.
Posted by: Don Firineach | Jan 2 2024 17:18 utc | 34
Did you just post under the wrong name?
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jan 2 2024 16:51 utc | 21
No I posted in my name. That was inspired by Caitlan's blog when the Zionist started eating a sandwich that did not belong to him.
Posted by: Angelo | Jan 2 2024 17:22 utc | 35
LoveDonbass @1645
Good insights on the corruptiveness of those who seek power. Political parties, particularly the most entrenched ones, are at the least, aiders and abetters of these sociopathic individuals. Take a look at the UKlie ones, with their destruction of the honest and idealistic Jeremy Corbin. Then consider the fact that in the U$$A, the nexus between the Talmudist controlled mass media of misinformation and mindfuckery are deeply in bed with the two monopolist peas in a pod, teeter-totter parties.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 2 2024 17:22 utc | 36
Posted by: Don Firineach | Jan 2 2024 17:18 utc | 34
Some people don't understand.
Some people do not want to understand. and
Some people are full of their own verbosity.
Take your pick. There is the other side, other than your understanding. Some times, it good to learn.
Posted by: sal | Jan 2 2024 17:28 utc | 37
@ Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 16:17 utc | 10
Steady on there, Archy baby - did you mean to equate the Khmerbastards with the whole Khmer peoples?
I been several times - the whole population was terrorised by a few thousands trained in some hidden places a bit like the mujahadeen were in Pakistan, taken there as children and brainwashed.
As child soldiers are.
I know many judaeoborn people- many are indeed ‘good’ in terms of acknowledging the injustice to Palestinians and the egregious behaviour of the illegal apartheid entity and regime in the Levant. Many illegal settlers there are perhaps not as wedded to the heinous Zionazi philosophy of continued Anglo European imperialism that that illegal qentity represents. Was planned to be century before it came about.
Do you need a list? There have been many postings by many.
When someone directly stirs the pot as your final comment does that just lights up the warning that they are not a honest actor. Which I’m sure you aim to be.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Jan 2 2024 17:28 utc | 38
Posted by: pq | Jan 2 2024 17:16 utc | 31
The "Meditation" (tm) range is brought to you courtesy of our sponsors Destilerias Unidas of Venezuela, manufacturers of the excellent Diplomatico Reserva Esclusiva rum.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 17:31 utc | 39
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 17:08 utc | 27
A couple of weeks ago on Judge Nappolitano Crook said it was very likely that Israel would attack Lebanon. He said the Israeli government had promised Northern settlers they could return by the end of January.
I took it to mean that he had been permitted to start leaking UK US greenlighht for a Beirut attack.
The biggest problem in attacking Israel are all its human shields: all the Arab Israelis and Palestinians who live in Israel, 20% of the population.
In 2006 when Hezbollah killed three Palestinians in Israel, Nasrallah apologized for it. The father of the killed said that he did not blame Nasrallah, he blamed the Israeli government.
Posted by: pq | Jan 2 2024 17:33 utc | 40
Steady on there, Archy baby - did you mean to equate the Khmerbastards with the whole Khmer peoples?
Posted by: DunGroanin | Jan 2 2024 17:28 utc | 38
I'm sure I was careful to say "Khmer rouge" ("Red Khmer" or the CPK) and not simply "Khmer".
Me drunk is bad enough, you drunk as well is not a good combination.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 17:37 utc | 41
As far as I can tell the NY Times has yet to inform the readers of its online edition that South Africa has filed genocide charges against Israel at the International Court of Justice. I check the headlines every morning and haven't seen anything yet, but I don't know about the print edition. Anyway, the Times editors must be having a difficult time deciding how to propagandize the story to favor Israel.
If Norman Finkelstein is a lawyer he would be a good choice for South Africa to prosecute its case.
Posted by: Chas | Jan 2 2024 17:45 utc | 42
Posted by: librul | Jan 2 2024 15:16 utc | 1
That sounds like the NYT is helping hide the gross incompetence of the IDF that came to light with the Oct. 7th attack.
I guess they think it is better to look evil rather than incompetent, but they were incompetent.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Jan 2 2024 17:46 utc | 43
“How tragic that the Rainbow Nation that prides itself on fighting racism will be fighting pro-bono for anti-Jewish racists,” Mr. Levy said. “History will judge South Africa for abetting the modern heirs of the Nazis.”
Posted by: Jonathan W | Jan 2 2024 17:46 utc | 44
A couple of weeks ago on Judge Nappolitano Crook said it was very likely that Israel would attack Lebanon. He said the Israeli government had promised Northern settlers they could return by the end of January.
I took it to mean that he had been permitted to start leaking UK US greenlighht for a Beirut attack.
Posted by: pq | Jan 2 2024 17:33 utc | 40
In turn, I take this as an indication the Zionist regime is reaching the end of it's tether militarily and getting desperate.
They're doing this as a cry for help to the USA. Perhaps in response the US apparent threat to disengage by withdrawing USS Gerald Ford.
My original estimate to Exile's request of how long this would go on was around mid January, around the time the ICJ hearing takes place, around the time I estimate IDF ground troops reach exhaustion:
This Beirut, Dahiyeh incident seems like a desperate attempt by 'Israel' at acceleration.
Things might come to a head even sooner.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 17:49 utc | 45
Thanks I get that.
Haven’t touched a drop today. Yet!
I try not to imbibe before 6 pm.
But there may be some in bloodstream still working itself out. 🥴
I was responding to your retort to @Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Jan 2 2024 16:05 utc | 8
Which read to me as you were saying there were ‘no good Jews’. By equating with Nazis and Khmerrouge.
Sorry I misread that. Let’s move on.
I’m going to try and wait until 7pm tonight before first hair of dog.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Jan 2 2024 17:56 utc | 46
Because numerous trustworthy outlets like Grayzone have reported that even they were surprised at how easy it was, how long Israel waited to respond...Tom_Q_Collins | Jan 2 2024 17:09 utc | 28
Well, Bibi did all he could to maximize the Oct 7th damage caused by Hamas. So he literally invited them in, gave them time and later had the IDF increase the Israeli death toll even further. The Oct 7th event is the thing which he knew, from the start, had to serve as the one excuse for his cherished idea of summary ethnic cleansing.
Now he sees that Egypt and others aren't playing along. He may still try to increase the pressure and suffering to a point where we feel like we're committing genocide unless we agree to take a contingent of refugees. I believe this is where it is heading, to a point somewhere on the line between mass emigration and mass genocide.
Posted by: grunzt | Jan 2 2024 17:57 utc | 47
A strike targeting a building in Beirut's Southern Suburb has killed at least 6 people, including Deputy Chief of the Political Bureau of the Hamas movement, Saleh al-Arouri,it has been reported.
This is a big loss for Hamas because Al-Arouri was a very important figure in the movement and the resistance.
The assassination time is symbolic - the day before the anniversary of the assassination of Iran's general Soleimani, al-Muhandis and others, and the day before Nasralla's announced speech in memory of General Soleimani.
The Zionists have stated that they intend to kill the Hamas leaders, and that they will pursue them in other countries.
Posted by: JB | Jan 2 2024 18:01 utc | 48
@sal | Jan 2 2024 17:28 utc | 37
I'm all for hermeneutics. A prerequisite for any substantive explanatics.
Posted by: Don Firineach | Jan 2 2024 18:10 utc | 49
Netanyahu wants Alan Dershowitz to represent Israel at the ICJ: Report
2 January 2024 16:45 GMT
Comment - if true, then the Israeli defense is doomed. Dershowitz is great on TV taking softball questions, but his status is 100% due to ethnic nepotism not talent nor skill.
====================
OMG! This is almost funny.
If true, it is going to be Ground Zero for cognitive dissonance among huge swaths of the US "progressive" community, not to mention the #MeToo people (because of the Epstein episode [in which he kept his boxers ON, goddammit!]).
More Dersh hatred because he defended Trump.
They seemed to think that Trump had no right to legal advice and defense.
I don't like Dersh, but whatever you think of him, or Trump, Trump had every right to hire a lawyer.
Of course, it is true that Net also has the right to legal defense.
So, what with hating Dersh, hating Trump, those who support Israel and Netanyahu will have trouble recognizing their own pieces on the Pachesi board.
Can't wait!! I sure hope Net hires Dersh.
Just in time for more revelations from Epstein's black book (are you in hiding, Ehud Barak?).
Posted by: Jane | Jan 2 2024 18:18 utc | 50
…… The Zionists have stated that they intend to kill the Hamas leaders, and that they will pursue them in other countries.
Posted by: JB | Jan 2 2024 18:01 utc | 49…..
The downside with targeting political leadership rather than military is the likely tit-for-tat escalation against one‘s own political leadership.
Posted by: Exile | Jan 2 2024 18:21 utc | 51
Don @ 25
Thanks for that explanation.
So, who will be the instrument of divine punishment?
Asking for a friend.
Posted by: Jane | Jan 2 2024 18:22 utc | 52
Whatever one may think the outcome of the current struggles may be, some things have been made perfectly clear already:
1). Israel ought to have the upper hand militarily, given its resources, its backing by the governments of the US and much of Europe, its military hardware, its previous history of expansion and conquest, and so on. Previously, but some time ago (1956 & 1967), it conquered the Gaza Strip in a single day each time. This time, it cannot reoccupy even a majority of that tiny area, hardly bigger than the City of Philadelphia, in over three months. This matches its huge failure against Lebanon and Hizbullah in 2006, but is much, much worse, because it had picked a war with Hizbullah, with which there was essentially no territorial dispute, but this time it is the Palestinians. It was possible to leave Hizbullah with a ceasefire and then ignore it, while siccing the US on Hizbullah to try to outmaneuver it inside Lebanon. That failed, but it could still be ignored. The Palestinians, however, cannot be ignored.
2). Although at the moment it doesn't really look like it, Israel might still prevail militarily in Gaza, but that will bring neither satisfaction to the Israelis nor victory, because too much has already been irrecoverably lost. The Palestinian tar baby not only threatens the existing political arrangements inside Israel, which were already endangered by the growth of authoritarian nationalist fanaticism there, but also threatens the same in the US. While the ongoing massacre has "ripped the mask off the Zionist monster," as observed @ liveload | Jan 2 2024 16:04 utc | 7 above, the reality under that mask has been visible to many for a long time. But it has also ripped the mask off the US political system in an unprecedented way, revealing nakedly to the public some of the real sinews of power, and that not only injures the Zionist case inside the US but also threatens the entire US political system, adding to the already building pressures on it. In particular, the Congress, even more than the press, has totally endorsed the extreme Zionist position, validating the genocide, revealing themselves as bought-and-paid-for craven cowards.
3). However much more harm Israel does to the Palestinians, in Gaza, in the West Bank, inside of Green Line Israel, and elsewhere, every additional Palestinian killed is a further defeat for Israel in the court of world public opinion, and this will have consequences. Clearly, under the official definition of the Genocide Convention of 1948, this is already a genocide; the question is, how much worse will it get? More than 1% of the Gazans have already been killed. One percent of the US population would be 3.4 million people. But Israel has vowed not to stop at that, and mass starvation may kick in to kill a much higher percentage of the Gazans. If it goes above 10%, it will begin to be described as a Holocaust. That even Israel is worried about this is illustrated by it saying it would allow four European countries to deliver food by sea directly into Gaza.
4). It has been suggested that the Arab and Muslim worlds will forget this event, but why should that be, when even the massacre of the American Indians in setting up the US and other colonial settler states, though long in the past, and though with rather miniscule surviving indigenous populations, at least in the US, Canada, Argentina, and Uruguay, has not been forgotten at all and even now is coming back to bite? Israel will never, ever be able to live this down. Its repugnance it so great that it not only alienates the non-Jews, but also the Jews as well, especially the young Jews, as observed by Jonathan Greenblatt of the ADL. This is huge, given that poor, almost resourceless Israel depends on a constant inflow of outside support to continue, just like the Crusader states of the Middle Ages.
5). Endorsement of the genocide by the US government and its servile clients has completely undermined anything they have to say about ethical behavior, and particularly demolished all their claims about promoting democracy, freedom, responsibility, and law both international and domestic. This utter humiliation also builds up the pressure on all the powers that be and increases the likelihood of their fighting among themselves with violent recriminations the worse it gets.
6). The danger of nuclear annihilation is obviously not reduced by any of these developments.
Posted by: Cabe | Jan 2 2024 18:23 utc | 53
Can't make this sh** up. I hope Finkelstein shows up as well just to glare at him.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 17:11 utc | 30
==============
Me, too!
Tee hee!
Posted by: Jane | Jan 2 2024 18:25 utc | 54
Against my better judgment I will briefly enter the futile discussion about the served version of 7 October Hamas attack on Israel in order to say -
- in whose interest is this version of events on that day?
and connected to that-
Why is the NYT revisiting this "old" news?
Why should anyone with a healthy head on their shoulders believe the NYT?
Why do those here who accept this version {and eagerly engage in repeating their conclusions (speculation) every time it is inserted in the Palestine open thread} never mention other versions, like that the Israelis had some information, but dismissed it as impossible/improbable and when the attack happened - they were shocked and paralised so it took them a while to respond.
The Hamas leader in Gaza, Yahya Sinwar, publicly spoke in December 2022 - we will come at you with a flood...
It is a pity that there can rarely be a focused debate here about relevant matters. Instead, there is an eagerness to engage in every possible distracting topic, like this version of 7 October events, which so obviously serves an obvious purpose.
Posted by: JB | Jan 2 2024 18:28 utc | 55
Now he sees that Egypt and others aren't playing along. He may still try to increase the pressure and suffering to a point where we feel like we're committing genocide unless we agree to take a contingent of refugees. I believe this is where it is heading, to a point somewhere on the line between mass emigration and mass genocide.
Posted by: grunzt | Jan 2 2024 17:57 utc | 48
=============
This sure is what it looks like to me.
I hope the ICJ can make some meaningful moves soon that empower international bystanders to turn their "aghastness" into effective action to end the horror.
Posted by: Jane | Jan 2 2024 18:39 utc | 56
From AntiWar.com:
Forty-two Israelis who attended the Nova music festival near the Gaza border that was attacked on October 7 have sued the Israeli security establishment for failing to protect the event.
The lawsuit filed a claim for $56 million against Israel’s Shin Bet security agency, the Israeli Defense Forces, the Defense Ministry, and the Israeli Police and says the agencies’ “negligence and the gross oversight” allowed the Hamas attack on the festival to happen.
“A single phone call by IDF officials to the commander responsible for the party to disperse it immediately in view of the expected danger would have saved lives and prevented the physical and mental injuries of hundreds of partygoers, including the plaintiffs,” the lawsuit reads.
Haaretz has reported that top Israeli military officials held consultations the night before October 7 to discuss warnings it received about a possible Hamas attack. But nobody in the Israeli military notified the Nova festival organizers of the threat even though the event was supposed to be under IDF protection.
“On the night between October 6 and October 7, at least two IDF assessments were held due to unusual incidents on the Gaza Strip border, one near midnight and another assessment close to 3 am, several hours before the Hamas attack,” the lawsuit reads.
The festival’s production team has said they could have evacuated the party even if they received a warning just one hour before the attack. Once attackers descended on the festival, the partygoers were told they were on their own. Organizers contacted the Israeli military around 7 am the morning of the attack, and Israeli forces didn’t get to the scene until 3 pm.
Once the Israeli military did show up, they started firing indiscriminately at Palestinian militants and Israeli civilians. An Israeli police investigation found that an IDF helicopter that arrived at the scene fired on Hamas fighters and also hit some festival participants.
Thousands of people attended the festival, and the lawsuit says a total of 364 partygoers were killed during the Hamas attack, and 40 were taken captive in Gaza. Israeli officials have said they don’t think Hamas knew about the festival and attacked it spontaneously when they came across the event on the morning of October 7.
Initially, a festival was scheduled to take place at the location on October 5 and 6 and was only approved to be extended into Saturday, October 7, earlier that week. Another report from Haaretz revealed that Gaza Division’s operations officer, Lt. Col. Sahar Fogel, opposed the extension, arguing it was a needless security risk, but was told by his superiors to approve it.
Author: Dave DeCamp
Posted by: daffyDuct | Jan 2 2024 18:42 utc | 57
Excellent 1 hour interview on Yemen, Ansarallah's history, and their support for Palestine w/ former PressTV reporter:
https://youtu.be/watch?v=jWUOyZTMSzI
(alternative)
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=jWUOyZTMSzI
Posted by: Browser | Jan 2 2024 18:42 utc | 58
Do you think Salih Al-Aruri is pissed when he found out it was 72 goats?
Anyone here $5 million dollars richer?
Posted by: HH | Jan 2 2024 18:54 utc | 60
RE: This "hollowness of the IDF" is the real reason for the apparent 'engineered failure' of the IDF in the face of the 7 October Palestinian Special Military Operation.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 15:48 utc | 5
Agreed. The Israel/West nonsense PR that Nuttyahoo et el “Let” the attack happen, so they look “all in control”, has bit them in the tail as they are now being sued.
******
“However, it looks to me the ICJ is a distributed court, it may not be easy to threaten the judges.”
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 16:56 utc | 23
Agreed. Either they will slam (US/UK) hard on Israel to “settle” very quickly, then beg South Africa to withdraw complaint, or double down, threats..bribes..delays @ ICJ.
It currently looks like “Hamas” is “negotiating” the release of Hostages and “ceasefire” as hardline and slow as possible. They are aware time is on the Palestinian cause side.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Jan 2 2024 18:58 utc | 61
Further to my post Posted by: JB | Jan 2 2024 18:01 utc | 49
Hamas has acknowledged the loss of two battalion commanders, along with Al Arouri in tonight's drone attack in Beirut:
'The Islamic resistance movement Hamas also confirmed the news of al-Arouri's martyrdom in a statement.
Hamas has also announced the martyrdom of two of the commanders of the Martyr Ezzedin al-Qassam battalions of the military branch of this movement in this attack.'
https://en.irna.ir/news/85341736/Deputy-head-of-Hamas-political-bureau-martyred-in-Israeli-regime-s
Posted by: JB | Jan 2 2024 19:01 utc | 62
Incompetence is a known cover.
Here is one that really gives me a chuckle.
The Daily Beast does all that it can to sell the cover up that is the charge of "incompetence".
https://www.thedailybeast.com/pentagon-blames-anthrax-fiasco-on-no-one
Posted by: librul | Jan 2 2024 19:15 utc | 63
reply to 2
It is a wonderment, just how much blackmail material the US has on people or other nations. We really can't know. I knew a guy with a security clearance who said you can't rise in US politics unless the Deep State has something on you. In the Cosa Nostra, you 'make your bones' and they have you for life. And it really gets rather ridiculous to witness public figures get attacked out of the blue, very conveniently, when they need to go. Every male on earth seems to have fondled/harassed/assaulted some female in the past and records kept. OTOH, did no one at Harvard know that Gay was a plagarist fake? How did that escape notice?
One good thing about the acceptance of gays in society? One less big thing to blackmail people for. No big deal anymore. Schumer told Trump they have '6 ways to Sunday' to get you. Probably applies to support for Israel, too.
Posted by: Eighthman | Jan 2 2024 19:21 utc | 64
Comment 1: Librul
This is the most plausible and succinct explanation I have read. Planned. Which makes Israel's actions all the more dispicable and heinous. They will not stop unless a mortal blow is struck by a determined defender of Palestine. Each day that the great alternative powers delay, sees a sea of innocent blood shed - a blot on humanity. I can never see Jewish people in the same way again - while they as a race with pride and joy endorse such brutality and evil.
Posted by: Áobh O'Sheachnasaigh | Jan 2 2024 19:23 utc | 65
Re: Al-Qassem Drones
Suspect these were bought on blsvkmarket from IDF supply Sargents
Posted by: Exile | Jan 2 2024 19:28 utc | 66
This is interesting. Finian Cunningham thinks Alastair Crooke is all wet regarding which end is the running-dog's wagging tail:
What we are dealing with here is a systematic and structural issue of U.S. imperialist power. It is a fundamentally flawed premise to view this unprecedented slaughter in Gaza as somehow the result of Biden being taken for a ride by Netanyahu.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jan 2 2024 19:31 utc | 67
"If 10 Palestinian men and 10 Israeli men go into a room, who is coming out?"
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Jan 2 2024 16:50 utc | 19
10 Palestinians and 10 recently converted Muslims.
We can discuss but Israel has clearly won. Poor Palestinians are genocided. There is no Arab resistance.
Posted by: zorge | Jan 2 2024 19:52 utc | 69
We can discuss but Israel has clearly won. Poor Palestinians are genocided. There is no Arab resistance.
Posted by: zorge | Jan 2 2024 19:52 utc | 70
After the 2006 invasion of Lebanon the Izzies held a pair of investigations.
One striking episode that was revealed by the investigations really stood out.
The Izzies were indeed incompetent -
incompetent at looking incompetent.
Hezbollah had attempted to get hostages released from the Izzies
by capturing IDF hostages to use as barter. This was May 2006.
The kidnapping attempt in May failed.
The IDF was all over the sector of the border where Hezbollah had
discovered a blind spot and attempted the kidnapping.
As you can imagine it was like a buzzing beehive that had been
cracked by a bear - IDF everywhere.
Then the IDF suddenly stood down...(?)
The IDF claimed later during the investigations that the
intelligence officer who was familiar with that sector was
transferred mid-beehive-buzz.
The replacement didn't understand the intelligence information
that was being gathered and made the wrong call to "stand down".
Sure (sarcasm)
A security camera experienced "delayed installation" at the blind spot,
but they went ahead and put reserve duty soldiers back on patrol in
that sector anyways.
The general in charge of that sector claimed during the investigation that
he had wanted professional soldiers to do border patrol but he claims
headquarters refused his request.
Soon after the stand down of the IDF alarms started going off up and down
the border. So they sent the reserve duty soldiers out on patrol.
The reserve soldiers were not briefed. They had no idea alarms
were being set off. It was a picnic to them. They loaded their personal
luggage/gear into their vehicles with the intention of riding up and down the border
and then heading back to their homes as it was the last day of their tour.
It was a picnic to them, they were carrying their personal luggage. But the truth
was that they were being sold down the river.
As you know, some of the border patrol were captured.
The IDF opened up on the immediate border area with artillery for two hours.
Was this a Hannibal Directive used to kill the hostages or had they already
died?
After two hours a patrol that included a top of the line Merkava tank (a Five
according to one general, a Two according to the newspapers) set out in pursuit.
They were directed to investigate a shack 75 yards on the other side of the border.
When they arrived at the shack a humongous detonation charge went off turning
the Merkava into pieces.
There are more nuggets to this tale of "incompetence", but Prime Minister Olmert
got the pretext for war that he had wanted. Also in May 2006, John Bolton had
succeeded in getting a UN resolution passed that made Iran and Syria responsible
for the actions of Hezbollah. The Izzies thought that they could just sweep Hezbollah
away from the air and then with US and Brit help (via the UN Resolution) pivot into
Syria and Iran. Fortunately for all parties the IDF failed in Lebanon and the warring
plans took a pause.
Lots of intentional appearing incompetence to cover for a war plan.
There was a plan for war, with a security failure false flag as the pretext.
Their false flag worked, their cover-up using the excuse of "incompetence" worked.
Two out of three, though, is not enough. Their war plans did not work.
Posted by: librul | Jan 2 2024 19:56 utc | 71
aristodemos | Jan 2 2024 17:16 utc | 34
I simply believe that most matters of politics and history are easily explained by persistent research and rational thought.
Most conpiracy theorists cut out the need either for knowing history or thinking logically- in the end the responsibility lies with evil lizards. It chimes with the lessons they were taught of Satanic power in Sunday School.
You deny your ideology by accusing any who disagree with you of being blinded by slavishly following the ideology which you have been taught all your life (it's your ideology) is unworkable and evil in its consequences.
The surprising thing to me is that those who fall for every other conspiracy theory advanced utterly deny the fact that the prime beneficiaries of such thinking are the ruling class.For them to be accused of secretly conspiring to do whatever they choose is to be blamed for omnipotence, which is all that they desire. And which goes a long way to protecting their feet of clay from the justifiable anger of their victims-the 99%.
It is almost beyond their wildest dreams that there are those, like yourself, who exculpate them of any blame and attribute all the evil in the world to a handful of families, including the British Royal, the Rothschild and the Rockefellers. As they say in the Sweatshop Proprietors Club "That's us off the hook then. "
Posted by: bevin | Jan 2 2024 20:03 utc | 72
By choosing its officials by lot (sortition), ancient Athens avoided that problem of only bad people seeking power.
Posted by: Lysias | Jan 2 2024 20:05 utc | 73
dpy | Jan 2 2024 17:16 utc | 33
*** Actually, the vast majority of the civilized population of the world is vehemently opposed both the the treatment of the Arab polulation of the area claimed by the Zionists and more recently and more vehemently the genocidal MURDER of said Arabs (and Christians and others). There is a certain, hard-to-understand hubris on the part of the Zionists at this time, but make no mistake - there will be "blowback". What is happening is beyond the pale and will not be forgotten, ever. The Jews have lost their Victim Card. They have become interntional paraihs.***
But see, for instance, how almost all of a UK parliament continues to arse-lick the zionists regardless of their proven psychopathic depravity and blatantly persistent lies.
Not only that, but it assists in the genocide.....
And the present all-party warmongering is just the latest in a sequence of such behaviour.
Criminals like Blair, Boris and Cameron still at large, very influential.....
If they'd do that with regard to people abroad they've no excuse for hating, how extremely vicious are they likely to be when (if?) the British population finally gets off its knees to oppose their agenda?
Posted by: Cynic | Jan 2 2024 20:09 utc | 74
Maybe Hezbollah should wait for ICJ before taking further action and meanwhile Hamas political leadership better take huge precautions???
If Hezbollah start to escalate now Israel will go running to ICJ too...
Lebanon should go to UNSC meanwhile through Algeria.
Posted by: Pq | Jan 2 2024 20:10 utc | 75
"4). It has been suggested that the Arab and Muslim worlds will forget this event, but why should that be, when even the massacre of the American Indians in setting up the US and other colonial settler states, though long in the past, and though with rather miniscule surviving indigenous populations, at least in the US, Canada, Argentina, and Uruguay, has not been forgotten at all and even now is coming back to bite?"
Posted by: Cabe | Jan 2 2024 18:23 utc | 54
Your posts are thoughtful, well written and informative; thank you.
However, when you refer to American Indians being genocided you have gone a bridge too far. Of the North American Indigenous peoples that died 95% of those deaths were from diseases not from white men killing the Indians.
"Infectious diseases had a profound historical impact on Native American populations beginning with the arrival of European settlers who introduced new diseases to previously native populations. During the initial phase of European colonization, infectious diseases were the primary killer among Native American communities. Infections ranging from smallpox, bubonic plague, chickenpox, cholera, the common cold, diphtheria, influenza, malaria, measles, scarlet fever, some sexually transmitted diseases, typhoid, typhus, tuberculosis, leptospirosis, and pertussis produced illness and extensive deaths. It is estimated that 95 percent of the indigenous populations in the Americas were killed by infectious diseases during the years following European colonization, amounting to an estimated 20 million people. While Europeans coming to the New World had herd immunity or were asymptomatic carriers of many of these diseases, Native American populations, who were being exposed to pathogens for the first time, experienced deadly epidemics. This has been termed the “Virgin Soil Effect”.(1)
@Posted by: canuck | Jan 2 2024 20:12 utc | 79
Too late for most, the indigenous Micmac tribe discovered that
Purple Pitcher Plant (PPP) is the cure to the pox viruses (including Small Pox).
It is still a treatment.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0032610
Be sure to use ***fresh*** PPP !!!
Posted by: librul | Jan 2 2024 20:19 utc | 77
Bevin @1620
You have this idee' fixe about "conspiracy theories". Any major deviation from an "acceptable" narrative happens to consistently be a no-go zone with you. As an ideologue, you demonstrate all the makings of a gate-keeper.
Posted by: aristodemos | Jan 2 2024 17:16 utc | 34
Yes, bevin is a 100% ideologue that will do intellectual somersaults to keep any 'narrative' in his 'ideological image' . Yet, I will give him credit, he is a well read, clever fellow.
As a gate keeper he certainly has shown his stripes in that regard; he told posters that they should not 'listen to me or another poster cause we were on (in his view) the wrong side of the Man Made Climate debate. Hence, instead of using fact and arguments to buttress his vague ideas he parrots simple 'cancel culture' characteristics which are, in my opinion, beneath him.
bevin's blindness in not recognizing the City of London's tentacles in the world severely impoverishes his world view.
Posted by: grunzt | Jan 2 2024 17:57 utc | 48
Thanks. VERY good, succinct summary of the current situation. If only we could all be so succinct -- and focused.
Posted by: RJPJR | Jan 2 2024 20:32 utc | 79
@Posted by: Áobh O'Sheachnasaigh | Jan 2 2024 19:23 utc | 67
I do appreciate your comment.
My own view of the world and the people in it keeps getting "knocked for a loop".
Also, the general reaction by the bar, thus far, to my post @1
has me doing yet another reassessment.
---
---
I never thought it would be so easy to get Americans to support Nazis (Ukraine).
Early on I remember people saying, "but Zelensky is Jewish".
One sentence. One sentence, that was all that it took.
Americans, who I could never imagine supporting Nazis, were all along only one sentence away from supporting Nazis.
Posted by: librul | Jan 2 2024 20:39 utc | 80
Posted by: bevin | Jan 2 2024 20:03 utc | 75
"It is almost beyond their wildest dreams that there are those, like yourself, who exculpate them of any blame and attribute all the evil in the world to a handful of families, including the British Royal, the Rothschild and the Rockefellers. As they say in the Sweatshop Proprietors Club "That's us off the hook then."
---------------------------------------------
Bevin, your point is well taken; but surely you do not deny that there exist vanguards in every class society know to humanity? That does not violate the Marxist opposition to the "Great Man Theory" of history so often used by bourgeois historians.
In fact, conspiracies do happen, often in plain sight; for example: The manufactured lies about WMD's by the Bush / Cheney administration that were publicly proclaimed by Secretary Powell at the UN and were promoted as a narrative by most of the MSM. Or, more recently, the "conspiracy" to hide the role of the US (Joe Biden) in the destruction of the Nord Stream Pipelines, and again the role of the MSM to push a false narrative on behalf of the Biden Administration.
In fact, how does one account for the MSM's unified adherence to a strict narrative concerning the US proxy war in Ukraine? Is that not a conspiracy among the capitalist elites?
Posted by: Ed | Jan 2 2024 20:46 utc | 81
@Posted by: JB | Jan 2 2024 18:28 utc | 56
Why should anyone with a healthy head on their shoulders believe the NYT?Why do those here who accept this version never mention other versions, like that the Israelis had some information, but dismissed it as impossible/improbable and when the attack happened - they were shocked and paralised so it took them a while to respond.
But *that is* the NYT version.
Limited Hangout:
According to Victor Marchetti, a former special assistant to the Deputy Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), a limited hangout is "spy jargon for a favorite and frequently used gimmick of the clandestine professionals. When their veil of secrecy is shredded and they can no longer rely on a phony cover story to misinform the public, they resort to admitting—sometimes even volunteering—some of the truth while still managing to withhold the key and damaging facts in the case.
The NYT, acting as mouthpiece, explained it all away, saying that the IDF/Mossad had concluded that the Hamas plans were "aspirational".
The question that hangs in the air is, why did the NYT's source feel it was necessary to get ahead of the story.
Posted by: librul | Jan 2 2024 20:54 utc | 82
It isn't just the NY Times that doesn't report on South Africa's suit against Israel in the ICJ for genocide. I am a subscriber to the print Washington Post, and I do not recall seeing any reporting there on that suit either.
Posted by: Lysias | Jan 2 2024 20:56 utc | 83
bevin's blindness in not recognizing the City of London's tentacles in the world severely impoverishes his world view.
Posted by: canuck | Jan 2 2024 20:24 utc | 80
-------------------------------------------------------------
London is not the center of an international conspiracy to control the world, although some Brits would like it to be so. The UK is a broken down has been colonial power in its death throes: It has been since the end of WWII. Yes, it has a financial center where wealth passes through its banks: So What? In time, China will play the role of "international tentacles" to the world, as New York has done since WWII.
Posted by: Ed | Jan 2 2024 21:00 utc | 84
@Posted by: canuck | Jan 2 2024 20:12 utc | 79
Too late for most, the indigenous Micmac tribe discovered that
Purple Pitcher Plant (PPP) is the cure to the pox viruses (including Small Pox).
It is still a treatment.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0032610
Be sure to use ***fresh*** PPP !!!
Posted by: librul | Jan 2 2024 20:19 utc | 79
Ha, ha. I work with Cree and Ojibwa in Northern Canada. They know their plants and medicines well.
Ojibwas have clans: if you are born into a clan ie what clan your mother is in that's what you do. The Fish clan are teachers ("you try to catch fish, its hard, they are smart' my Indian friend told me); Bear and Wolves are protectors or warriors; Bird clans (1) are leaders ; Muskrats are medicine men-it is a crime for a medicine man to ask for payment for healing-a little different from our 'doctors'.
Snakes and beavers are despised-no clans. As snakes, that's obvious the beaver is hated cause they mess up the Indian river lake transportation system and they kill whole trees (aspen, willow, poplar birch) only eating the top branch leaves-to the natives this is wasteful.
Canada has the beaver as its symbol-they did it to piss off the Indians.
The beaver trade came to an abrupt halt in 1857 when Prince Albert (Queen Victoria's husband) in 1856 (?) wore a silk hat in public and then silk hats were all the rage-beaver was out.
1. For example I was called a 'duck leader'; cause a duck gets mad quickly then shakes it off right away; a goose is quiet and leads by example; an eagle is a decisive leader. It goes on
@Posted by: canuck | Jan 2 2024 21:11 utc | 87
This may amuse you.
Benjamin Franklin on the Rattlesnake as a Symbol of America
I recollected that her eye excelled in brightness, that of any other animal, and that she has no eye-lids. She may therefore be esteemed an emblem of vigilance. She never begins an attack, nor, when once engaged, ever surrenders: She is therefore an emblem of magnanimity and true courage. As if anxious to prevent all pretensions of quarreling with her, the weapons with which nature has furnished her, she conceals in the roof of her mouth, so that, to those who are unacquainted with her, she appears to be a most defenseless animal; and even when those weapons are shown and extended for her defense, they appear weak and contemptible; but their wounds however small, are decisive and fatal. Conscious of this, she never wounds 'till she has generously given notice, even to her enemy, and cautioned him against the danger of treading on her.
http://www.greatseal.com/symbols/rattlesnake.html
Posted by: librul | Jan 2 2024 21:24 utc | 86
The main diplomatic energy expended by the U.S. since October has been focused on being sure fighting in the Mid-East does not “expand”. Today’s assassination of a Hamas official in Beirut, by the Israelis, is the single event to date most likely to expand the fighting. In fact, according to IDF spokesperson, Israel had placed their defences on alert ahead of the strike in anticipation of retaliatory measures. With Israel, the Americans have all the leverage, and yet have no leverage. Israel's "war cabinet" appears anxious and determined to flatten Lebanon.
Malaysia today endorsed the South African genocide compliant at ICJ.
Posted by: jayc | Jan 2 2024 21:26 utc | 87
"I work with Cree and Ojibwa in Northern Canada. They know their plants and medicines well."
"...For example I was called a 'duck leader'; cause a duck gets mad quickly then shakes it off right away; a goose is quiet and leads by example; an eagle is a decisive leader. It goes on"
Posted by: canuck | Jan 2 2024 21:11 utc | 87
-------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for that very interesting story about Native Canadians. I wonder, just as an aside, how the Native Canadian's feel about lithium mining ⚒? Does mining affect the Cree or the Ojibwa in any significant way?
Posted by: Ed | Jan 2 2024 21:33 utc | 88
Posted by: Ed | Jan 2 2024 21:00 utc | 86
============
The City of London is not London.
The extent of the spider's web of control is certainly up for debate, but that there is a web of control over Earth's money and assets is incontrovertibly true.
I recommend for your viewing
The Spider's Web: Britain's Second Empire, written and directed by Michael Oswald.
https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/spider-web-britain-second-empire/
Posted by: Jane | Jan 2 2024 21:34 utc | 89
@Posted by: canuck | Jan 2 2024 21:11 utc | 87
Some decades ago I attended a weekend meditation instruction.
Somewhere in there the host had us meditate on being open to our "spirit animal".
I was hoping for a black stallion, but all I got was a youngish porcupine.
Was crest fallen until someone in the group, who had some sort of list, piped
in that that was a good one.
Years later I was hiking (trespassing) on the grounds of a Maharishi Yogi Health Center.
In a small stand of pines not far from their front door I saw waddling along a youngish
porcupine. It was generally heading towards their door. "Hmm...maybe I should check out a treatment
there sometime". Never did.
Posted by: librul | Jan 2 2024 21:37 utc | 90
@ Ed | Jan 2 2024 21:00 utc | 86
ed, i 2nd janes recommendation to you in her post @ 91...
@ jane.. i replied to the issue of ownership of land in patagonia on the previous palestine thread.. cheers..
Posted by: james | Jan 2 2024 21:38 utc | 91
I recommend for your viewing
The Spider's Web: Britain's Second Empire, written and directed by Michael Oswald.
https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/spider-web-britain-second-empire/
Posted by: Jane | Jan 2 2024 21:34 utc | 91
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Thank you, Jane, for your comment, and yes, I will look into it.
Posted by: Ed | Jan 2 2024 21:41 utc | 92
. . . It is almost beyond their wildest dreams that there are those, like yourself, who exculpate them of any blame and attribute all the evil in the world to a handful of families, including the British Royal, the Rothschild and the Rockefellers. As they say in the Sweatshop Proprietors Club "That's us off the hook then. "
Posted by: bevin | Jan 2 2024 20:03 utc | 74
===============
Bevin's whole comment presents an elaborate straw man argument.
It appears to do the work, intentionally or innocently, of those in the CIA who coined the term "conspiracy theory" in the first place.
Posted by: Jane | Jan 2 2024 21:53 utc | 93
Posted by: Greater Israel | Jan 2 2024 15:48 utc | 4
Legataries err, can I suggest you get off your electronic device and go die for your zionazi overlords instead of wasting precious seconds of our lives with your Nazi death-squad boosterism?
Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Jan 2 2024 22:04 utc | 94
The israeli response to south africa in this press conference. His words are all highly charged word salad lies . Israel is not happy
https://t.me/myLordBebo/18551?single
Posted by: Hankster | Jan 2 2024 22:06 utc | 95
I will look into it.
Posted by: Ed | Jan 2 2024 21:41 utc | 94
=================
This excellent documentary was made (so I heard) on a minuscule budget of ca. 4,000 pounds---another good reason to add to the number of total views!
Oswald has another documentary out that covers some of the same ground but with an emphasis on the true sources of corruption of governments and the part played by offshore financial havens etc. in making possible the theft of the wealth of developing nations.
"Behind Closed Doors,"
https://braveneweurope.com/michael-oswald-behind-closed-doors
Posted by: Jane | Jan 2 2024 22:06 utc | 96
"Posted by: Jane | Jan 2 2024 21:34 utc | 91
"....but that there is a web of control over Earth's money and assets is incontrovertibly true."
Controllers? All aiming at the same financial objective? That's a mighty big stretch in my book. A bunch of very loosely aligned nut jobs, each with their own agenda, is closer to the truth.
There is something to that thesis, however. But, figuring it out is going to take a lot more of an effort than watching a movie.
Here is a good place to start: "The Empire on Which the Black Sun Never Sets" A book by Cynthia Chung.
Posted by: Johnny Dollar | Jan 2 2024 22:10 utc | 97
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 2 2024 16:17 utc | 10
I think the 'nice' ones are really not as "nice" as we'd like to think, nor the 'good' ones as "good".
*********
Many rehearse the notion Edwin Black wrote about, that zionists and NSDAP coordinated to enable German Jews to migrate to Palestine/Israel.
A closer, careful reading reveals that: (1) Jews in USA were the most powerful entity to advocate for WWI; but that (2) Jews in USA were in two (major) divided groups, German Jews -- older in USA, and Eastern European Jews -- relative newcomers, abhorrent to many German Jews.
Each group had its own organization: American Jewish COMMITTEE -- the older, German Jewish group; and American Jewish CONGRESS, founded in 1916 by Stephen Wise (main acolyte to Louis Brandeis, de facto leader of zionism worldwide and a major behind-the-scenes force urging US involvement in WWI and WWII).
Although the two groups held strongly different opinions about the Jewish position on WWI and especially Jewish demands at Versailles, In Edwin Black's book, Transfer Agreement, he states that the two groups came together and advocated FOR the zionist agenda: "Jews emerged from Versailles with a dual triumph: the Jewish homeland in Palestine, AND protection of Jews in all nations where they dwelt."
The point is: ALL Jews came together to put their combined force between the Versailles/zionist agenda.
There was no "loyal opposition."
Posted by: ChasMark | Jan 2 2024 22:20 utc | 98
Johnny Dollar @ 99.
Well, it certainly needn't be an either/or.
The topic broached was London and the City of London.
Oswald's film is about the City of London and its role in the creation and use of offshore havens for stealing, hiding, and laundering huge portion of the world's money.
You can watch it for free in ca. 1.25 hours right now.
IOW low-hanging fruit for the curious.
One Amazon reviewer's description of Chung's book:
"Cynthia has written a large volume on many aspects of deep political history. She examines the philosophy of the Western and British elite who have always been interested in a fascist and totalitarian system of governance. They maintained links and collaboration with the Nazi regime. They sought power through supranational institutions such as the League of Nations and European Union.
She later gets into NATO, Operation Gladio, JFK and the CIA, and current events in Ukraine. An important contribution to parapolitical history!"
It costs ca. 22 bucks, and a considerable time commitment to read.
Posted by: Jane | Jan 2 2024 22:28 utc | 99
@ Jane | Jan 2 2024 22:06 utc | 98
i have also watched that documentary too and recommend it as well.. on finances 'princes of the yen' is very very good.. it is also done by michael oswald. short of that, i highly recommend the book 'confessions of an economic hit man' by john perkins..
Princes of the Yen | Documentary Film
Posted by: james | Jan 2 2024 22:37 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
The NYT revealed that the Zionist leadership, including Mossad and the IDF, had the Hamas Oct 7th plans months in advance. They knew.
The IDF border watchers reported unusual activity. They witnessed Hamas training for Oct 7th. This activity was reported for weeks in advance. And Mossad had spooks crawling all over Gaza. They knew.
They knew.
So what did the IDF do?
They withdrew the majority of their forces at the Gaza border just prior to Oct 7th.
They inexplicably delayed their response to the Hamas jail break **for hours***.
They **multiplied** the number of their own casualties by implementing the Hannibal Doctrine.
They used their own citizens like sheep to the slaughter in order to create blood lust and enable the slaughter of Palestinian women and children. The real target of Netanyahu is not Hamas it is the Palestinian people and their land and their offshore gas fields.
Treachery, betrayal, genocide and theft. You take that sin onto yourself if you bury your head in the sand.
Posted by: librul | Jan 2 2024 15:16 utc | 1