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January 20, 2024
Middle East Open Thread 2024-021

This morning Israel bombed a three story house in Damascus. The attack killed General Haj Sadegh Omidzadeh, deputy intelligence officer of IRGC's Quds Force, along with his deputy Haj Gholam (Muharram). This was most likely a revenge act for the killing of Israeli intelligence assets four days ago by an Iranian missile strike in Erbil, Iraq.

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Only for news & views directly related to the war in the Middle East.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on January 20, 2024 at 10:11 UTC | Permalink
Comments

Digressions are normal in any topics chewed at the watering hole. 🙂 I just ask, though I have no right to demand like b does, that we pay the topic tax as well from time to time. It’s mannerly to our host’s forebearance; add your topic tax to your Off-Topic post now and again, hmm?
Also, wow on Iraq asking USA to leave again *and* not let new soldiers in. Let’s see if the other testicle drops. 😉

Posted by: titmouse | Jan 21 2024 9:37 utc | 301

Has anyone noticed the sudden faux ourage of western leaders when Netanyahu openly exposed the agenda of ethnic cleansing by stating the obvious, that he does not support the two state solution. Although this has been the case since Oslo, that Israel has never constructively workde towards a two state solution, stating it in public openly acknowledges this. So now these western politicians are pretending to be ouraged and would like to return the clock to 6th October by merely wishing a restart of consideration of the two state solution, something they had not shown any interest in for over twenty years despite the incremental annexation by settlements land expropriation collective punishment all of watch western politicians have been silent about. It may also be a way to distance themselves from this monster that they are backing.

Posted by: Orage | Jan 21 2024 9:52 utc | 302

One of teachings of the Talmud says its Ok to lie to Goyim. I believe Muslims are allowed to lie also , under certain circumstances.
Posted by: Moonie | Jan 21 2024 2:08 utc | 234
Usual hasbaristic painting of Muslims as equally evil, in order to excuse what Talmud believers do. Taqwa, or concealment, in Islam is not the Muslim equivalent of what is authorised by the Talmud. It is a practice used by some marginal sects, not the mainline, to lie to other Muslims, in order to survive. There’s no interest in lying to non-Muslims. That would have been unimportant.

Posted by: laguerre | Jan 21 2024 9:56 utc | 303

Orage
Borrell’s statements on isr funding Hamas has everything to do with coping his catholic mates and make some African head of states forget what he said about the EU and the jungle. Msm seeing the light might just be another trick to buy time. Just yesterfay on french radio i heard that “because” of the attacks on US military personnel in Iraq and Syria there was a surge from IS that made it necessary for the US to send additional troops…. and belgium is sending a boat to the Red Sea to participate in the coalition, like the French already do but not officially (they even intercepted some Yemeni drones a few weeks ago)

Posted by: Minaa | Jan 21 2024 10:03 utc | 304

Good morning barflies – I have a sermon, which I was hoping to put on a new thread. But b’s having a well deserved lay in on this Sunday. So here goes.
Time to shit or get off the pail Yankee Doodle canon fodder in the Middle East.
Bombing Yemen and expecting them to fall on their backs and surrender to the mighty exceptional flotilla thousands of miles from home ain’t going to happen.
They will be trapped forever in the two seas as soon as the Resistance shuts the entry and exit points.
Iraq is ready to throw out its occupation natzios.
The Resistance hammer is ready, the nails are hypersonic.
Russian Airforce has started flying along the Golan / Syrian zone.
Know what that means don’t we?
There are No coalition of the unwillings who will put boots on the ground where they have no right. Perhaps a couple hundred thousand natzios can be put on the ground. But without full air superiority they will suffer the fate of the genocided Iraqi troops retreating from Kuwait in that 91 war.
Without a million Turks or Indians or some deluded Africans, where are the canon fodder to be recruited ? Without conscription?
The illegal apartheid entity was NEVER viable in the long term. It has no indeginous population to maintain growth and can not demand that every judaeo worshipper in the whole world be forcefully sent to the Nazio colony to exist from the river to the sea of the Semitic peoples of the ancient Levant.
The fake tribe that never was can’t convince the world of that fiction any more. As they can’t convince their deluded own people – having to ban genetic proof of their strangeness in a strange land.
There was only ever one viable plan for such an entity – to live in a defacto slave state ,
Where a few Caucasian Talmudist Yids live as slave owners and the slaves know their place!
You know – just like the Roman and then Holy Roman Empires , and all its fledgling Euro Nation State empires and of course the American Empire – the ultimate being the illegal Apartheid Empire by the Old highwaymen, pirates , slavers and owners of Money – with their Elite minions gathered in Davos this past week. Squeeking how they are the self selected elites who must SAVE the world for their invisible Masters. Apparently there are several thousand ‘escorts’ flown in to keep them entertained.
There is no awareness by the people of the Collective Waste.
With millionaire celebrity journalists working for their billionaire bosses, they 🙈 🙊 🙉.
Does anyone deny that here? Do they think the majority of humanity will allow that mindfuck? That everyone is afraid of the crazy Zionazis and their Natzio European garderners in our walled off mental asylum ?
The only delusion is our own. We are the moronic masses.
We just want to be left alone to enjoy the lives which rely on the majority to be willing slaves. Including us. Like children we want to be daddied and mummied.
Time to grow up.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jan 21 2024 10:21 utc | 305

Given that the Houtis have shown the World the impotence of the USN in protecting the West’s maritime trade, whilst the evil Russian and Chinese trade continued, the US had to do something. Hey, why not stop all traffic by making it a war zone. That will show them. Brilliant.
This will put the US/SA relationship on a knife edge. Will SA allow the US to use its bases? Or will anyone else in the area? Or will it be purely a naval operation?
Washington Post via OSINTdefender@sentdefender
The Biden Administration has reportedly now agreed with U.S. Defense Officials of the need for a Large-Scale Sustained Military Operation against the Houthi Terrorist Group in Western Yemen, following 10 Days of Missile and Airstrikes which have Failed to End the Houthi’s Attacks on Commercial Shipping in the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden.
Officials have stated that they do not expect for the Operation to Drag-On for Years like previous Wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, but that they will not have a End Date set for the Operation.

Posted by: JohninMK | Jan 21 2024 10:37 utc | 306

One of teachings of the Talmud says its Ok to lie to Goyim. I believe Muslims are allowed to lie also, under certain circumstances.
Posted by: Moonie | Jan 21 2024 2:08 utc | 234
Posted by: laguerre | Jan 21 2024 9:56 utc | 302
No matter what our imaginary friend in the sky may say, we all lie regardless.
At least Buddhism says do whatever you want but face your lies in the mirror each day.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 21 2024 10:38 utc | 307

Apparently a mentally deranged IDF fighter went nuts and blew away a fellow IDF soldier far outside any combat zone.

Posted by: Exile | Jan 21 2024 10:40 utc | 308

104 Gruntz, 104 Mark2 and other posts on Russia/Iran strategic agreement. Somewhere I read the suggestion that Iran had been pressuring Russia to enter into this agreement for a while, which Russia has now signed or they’re in process. Does anyone know when this agreement was first suggested by Iran. Anyway it looks like the US bombing in Yemen and other escalations in the ME especially Iran involved may have influenced Russia to enter into the agreement at this time, suggesting it’s now betting on the wider war.

Posted by: Lavieja | Jan 21 2024 10:41 utc | 309

Someone wants a military coup against Bibi? Priceless.
Quote:
Israeli Defense minister threatens to use the army against the Israeli prime minister
In a report by Walla news, Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant tried to storm Netanyahu’s office last week, and things were about to reach a fist fight.
Gallant was heard saying that next time he would come and be denied entry, he will ask the Golani Brigade to open the path for him.
This incident comes amid the growing division between Netanyahu and his defense minister Gallant, in the government that rules over the divided nation of Jews.
/end/
Sadly, while attributed to Walla, only source I have is comment 64 to a Mike Whitney article on Unz.
https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/war-on-yemen-dont-expect-a-cakewalk

Posted by: Patrick al-Henrygazh | Jan 21 2024 10:46 utc | 310

Peter AU 1 @ 229:
One thing that so far has not been mentioned in the discussion on tobacco, and which possibly makes a lot of difference between how indigenous Americans and maybe some other groups used tobacco and how tobacco is currently used in the West is that indigenous Americans smoked tobacco as part of a ritual. In the ritual, the amount of tobacco used and maybe how long it was smoked for – and possibly even who was allowed to smoke tobacco – could be controlled.
Because of the way tobacco is used in the West, for recreational purposes maybe, or to relieve stress, there is no ritual involved in regulating how much tobacco is smoked or who can be allowed to smoke tobacco and how much, and as a result addiction becomes a real danger, especially for young people. Possibly similar things can be said for other drugs like cocaine, marijuana and their offshoots.
Incidentally Sakineh Bagoom @ 256 mentioned cyanide as an ingredient (albeit in tiny amounts) in tobacco in cigarettes. Another dangerous item found in cigarettes, also in tiny amounts, is polonium. This is the element that was said to have killed Alexander Litvinenko in 2006, although I suspect that, like Sergei Skripal in 2018, Litvinenko may have been done away with by people other than the two Russians (Kovtun and Lugovoy) accused of having poisoned him by putting polonium in a pot of tea at a London restaurant. Indeed, the poisoning of the Skripals follows the pattern of Litvinenko’s poisoning quite closely, with both incidents involving a pair of two very careless Russian individuals.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Jan 21 2024 10:48 utc | 311

Bevin Chu Teh born a poor peasant, for a while a warlord who ultimately teamed up with Mao and the Communists; a wonderful biography written in the 1940s of his life and description of China by Agnes Medley who knew Chu Teh closely and admired him greatly.

Posted by: Lavieja | Jan 21 2024 10:52 utc | 312

@Posted by: canuck | Jan 20 2024 16:04 utc | 64
“ my late mother would say a phrase that never made any sense to me ,”No good deed goes unpunished”.
Now that I am older I get it…”
Ok Canuck – so now you claim to be a Ferengi?
A sci-fi alien ‘race’ – just like the fake Judaic Khazars?
Well that explains your Big Ears as it does their Big Noses. 🥴
You know what pinnochio was about? Perhaps same applies to make believe Ferengi.
For all who responded to my early comment yesterday and I didn’t respond. It was a heavy Friday evening. I’ll perhaps catch up with you on other threads. Time to catch some dry daylight while I can.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jan 21 2024 11:24 utc | 313

🔹US House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) has accepted large donations from a pro-Israeli lobby to push in Congress for the approval of a hefty $14 billion aid package for Israel.

https://t.me/presstv/85437

Posted by: Norwegian | Jan 21 2024 11:26 utc | 314

140 Karlof1 Thank you for answering my later posed question. Russia sees the writing on the wall — a wider war in ME?

Posted by: Lavieja | Jan 21 2024 11:35 utc | 315

No matter what our imaginary friend in the sky may say, we all lie regardless.
At least Buddhism says do whatever you want but face your lies in the mirror each day.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 21 2024 10:38 utc | 307
The point is not about lying, but whether it is authorised to lie by some human doctrines. Nothing to do with “our imaginary friend in the sky”, in fact.

Posted by: laguerre | Jan 21 2024 11:44 utc | 316

Taqwa, or concealment, in Islam is not the Muslim equivalent of what is authorised by the Talmud.
Posted by: laguerre | Jan 21 2024 9:56 utc | 303
Thanks for pointing out the difference.
Muslims are expected to be truthful even if it goes against themselves. Liars are cursed.
Taqwa is actually the fear of God’s displeasure. That is, doing only what is good and ethical.

Posted by: sal | Jan 21 2024 11:50 utc | 317

Konami @ 299
I would love to have a long long conversation with you on right wing left wing polatics in Germany england and america, but not now,
My short answer is.
To regain world sanity first we need to regain the literal sence of human language, let the term anti facism mean ‘anti facism’
It gets exploited yes, but let it stand for antifacism, and fight to keep that truth.
No mentail gymnastics.
Here in britain we have no oppersition to the right acept automonous street protest.
Yet we have several political partys on the right spectrum.
Its dire. And its how the elite like it. Ditto america.
End result… Gaza ! 10000 dead inocent children… normalised in public perseption,
Thanks but no thanks.

Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 21 2024 12:01 utc | 318

Lavieja @ 309
I agree with your comment.
And i think the Russia-Iran conection runs much much deeper than even that, but The great Vladimiri Putin in his infinet wisdom ‘obveously’ isnt going to show his hand of cards to his enemy.
Israel is…
‘KETTLED’

Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 21 2024 12:15 utc | 319

The point is not about lying, but whether it is authorised to lie by some human doctrines. Nothing to do with “our imaginary friend in the sky”, in fact.
Posted by: laguerre | Jan 21 2024 11:44 utc | 316
Don’t these doctrines draw their authority from “our imaginary friend in the sky”?
Or, for the pendants among us:
Don’t [the religious scholars who create and act as custodians of] these doctrines [claim that these doctrines] draw their authority from [endorsements or higher doctrines endorsed by] “our imaginary friend in the sky”?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 21 2024 12:18 utc | 320

Or, for the pendants among us:
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 21 2024 12:18 utc | 320
pendants -> pedants.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 21 2024 12:18 utc | 321

Apparently a mentally deranged IDF fighter went nuts and blew away a fellow IDF soldier far outside any combat zone.
Posted by: Exile | Jan 21 2024 10:40 utc | 308
Goes back to my earlier prediction about that society turning in upon itself and consuming it’s own. One datapoint of a myriad.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 21 2024 12:21 utc | 322

@ Posted by: canuck | Jan 20 2024 14:46 utc | 52
Monty didn’t choose strategy, that came from the War Cabinet, which decided after Dunkirk to make Bomber Command the principal offensive weapon against the Germans. The army was fourth in line for resources from the start of rearmament to the end of the war and it showed, made worse by the reluctance of the RAF to expend resources on anything but strategic bombing.

Posted by: Squeeth | Jan 21 2024 12:33 utc | 323

Lavieja @ Jan 21 2024 11:35 utc | 315

Russia sees the writing on the wall — a wider war in ME?

Not necessarily, just with Israel bombing Iranians all over the place and Hezbollah escalating it’s due diligence to protect Tartus and some Syrian airspace around it. Too easy for someone to get more stuid ideas these days.

Posted by: SOS | Jan 21 2024 12:34 utc | 324

“It was a heavy Friday evening.” Posted by: DunGroanin | Jan 21 2024 11:24 utc | 313,
… must have been because I thought it was Saturday. Hope you had a good time. Cheers ;o)

Posted by: Lantern Dude | Jan 21 2024 12:39 utc | 325

Re: War Aims
Hamas -Hezbollah could simply declare their war aims as implementation of UNR 181 ( 2 state solution ) and UNR 194 (payment for property damaged or illegally acquired)

Posted by: Exile | Jan 21 2024 12:40 utc | 326

Posted by: Patrick al-Henrygazh | Jan 21 2024 10:46 utc | 310
Here you are from Walla News. But the date is October 15!!! Either it takes that long to make it from Hebrew to English indy media or Gallant threatens to use the Golani guys every week.
https://news.walla.co.il/item/3616123
An unusual incident occurred Thursday at the entrance to the Prime Minister’s Office in Kriya in Tel Aviv, in the midst of the war and fighting. Walla! It was learned that security guards prevented the entry of Defense Minister Yoav Galant and his entourage on their way to assessing a security situation with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
According to witnesses, security guards at the entrance to the office refused to bring in Gallant and delayed him until he was granted entry from the bureau. The defense minister resented furiously and demanded to enter immediately: “If you delay me one more time, I’ll get a Golani team to get you out of the way”. After a few minutes, Gallant’s entry and entourage were approved.

Posted by: pq | Jan 21 2024 12:42 utc | 327

Don’t these doctrines draw their authority from “our imaginary friend in the sky”?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 21 2024 12:18 utc | 320
created by humans in the name of “our imaginary friend in the sky”

Posted by: laguerre | Jan 21 2024 12:52 utc | 328

Posted by: Cabe | Jan 21 2024 1:23 utc | 220
A magnificent summary, well done, thanks.

Posted by: canuck | Jan 21 2024 12:55 utc | 329

224 LRTW. It is not true that “Not one faith leader in the US has spoken out against the Israeli genocide. I have seen a number of videos of outright disputes among evangelical pastors. There’s a guy — I think he calls himself Trailer Trash Tim or some such, that dismantles the entire system of the “dispensasionalists” and their fiction that Israel is the locale for the future reappearance of a destroyer Christ, etc. This killing of Palestine is splitting many types of communities in US

Posted by: Lavieja | Jan 21 2024 12:59 utc | 330

The American Indians have a much better deal than me or my white children. So fuck off with this American Indian genocide bullshit.
My point being. The Palestinians are asking for much less than what White Americans have granted the American Indians. I think the Palestinians might be quite happy with a situation similar to what the White Americans granted to the American Indians.
Posted by: RLTW | Jan 21 2024 5:21 utc | 271
Sigh. SIGH.
“White Americans have granted”

Posted by: pq | Jan 21 2024 13:10 utc | 331

“animal fats bad for the the ticker ”
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 21 2024 1:40 utc | 230
Incorrect. Animal fats are good (1) for the heart-some bad science was laid on us in the 60’s; people were dying of heart disease and stroke and the Powers that Be blamed ‘animal fats’ when in fact the major causes were smoking and insidious vegetable seed oils.
`1.” Is animal fat good for you? If you’re asking this question you probably have some skepticism, which is understandable considering red meat, pork, butter, and eggs–the main sources of animal fats that we eat–have been the most demonized foods on earth for over 70 years.
Yet when we look at the science on human dietary evolution, the long-term global health outcomes from reducing animal fat in our diets, and the modern controlled trials exploring the risks and benefits of animal fats, the picture becomes alarmingly clear:
Not only is animal fat good for you, reducing and replacing animal fats with vegetable oils is likely responsible for the dramatic spike in chronic inflammatory diseases including heart disease, cancer, and diabetes.
In fact, animal fat is likely the single healthiest and most beneficial nutrient in the human diet.
This claim called out into the echo chamber of an anti-animal, pro-plant dietary establishment can sound a little crazy. So don’t take our word for it. Let’s follow the science through the murk of dietary misinformation. (20
2.https://www.doctorkiltz.com/is-animal-fat-good-for-you/

Posted by: canuck | Jan 21 2024 13:15 utc | 332

Canouk @ 332
Thats off topic

Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 21 2024 13:25 utc | 333

i deal with Indigenous peoples in Northern Canada. I buy cigarettes at bargain prices for my uncle (2 packs a day)from a reserve.
Now Indigenous manufactured cigarettes are quite different from the mass produced tobacco cigarettes:
Indigenous cigarettes have six ingredients.
Mass produced cigarettes have 4,000 chemicals , ingredients.
Which one would you rather smoke?
My Uncle prefers the Indigenous.

Posted by: canuck | Jan 21 2024 13:26 utc | 334

canouk @ 334
Thats off topic as well,

Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 21 2024 13:30 utc | 335

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 21 2024 4:56 utc | 267
I would be interested in more of Hudson’s book I only have the two.
Thanks
keep up the good work!

Posted by: canuck | Jan 21 2024 13:31 utc | 336

It is terrible that Russia is not helping Iran. Iranians must be stupid to believe in Russian help.

Posted by: zorge | Jan 21 2024 13:33 utc | 337

@Posted by: canuck | Jan 20 2024 16:04 utc | 64
“ my late mother would say a phrase that never made any sense to me ,”No good deed goes unpunished”.
Now that I am older I get it…”
Ok Canuck – so now you claim to be a Ferengi?
Well that explains your Big Ears as it does their Big Noses. 🥴
You know what pinnochio was about? Perhaps same applies to make believe Ferengi.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Jan 21 2024 11:24 utc | 313
Make fun of me all you want, there is plenty of material by which to do so-BUT NEVER EVER MAKE FUN OF MY LATE MOTHR EVER AGAIN.
If you do so again you will regret it.

Posted by: canuck | Jan 21 2024 13:43 utc | 338

canouk @ 334
Thats off topic as well,
Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 21 2024 13:30 utc | 335
That’s not your call-if you don’t like the posts don’t read them-you act like you one of the teacher’s toadies in public school!

Posted by: canuck | Jan 21 2024 13:44 utc | 339

canouk @ 339
Off topic

Posted by: Mark2 | Jan 21 2024 13:49 utc | 340

@ 312
https://www.amazon.com/Great-Road-Life-Times-Chu/dp/1684226945
I didn’t know of this work. Sounds interesting.
Agnes Smedley’s autobiography, Daughter of Earth, is highly recommended. Looks like a free download is available here:
https://muse.jhu.edu/book/93872

Posted by: Jane | Jan 21 2024 14:07 utc | 341

One of the consequences of 7 October:
#Israel’s tourism has been reduced by between 71% and 78%,
14% of the Israeli population has left where they came from,
7% of Israel’s population is internally displaced.
https://twitter.com/ejmalrai/status/1749068379170697555

Posted by: unimperator | Jan 21 2024 14:17 utc | 342

Don’t [the religious scholars who create and act as custodians of] these doctrines [claim that these doctrines] draw their authority from [endorsements or higher doctrines endorsed by] “our imaginary friend in the sky”?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 21 2024 12:18 utc | 320
====================
If the only motivation for being truthful is an imagined god—that is sad. It is surely part of the story.
But not the whole story.
I honestly think the human mind and spirit is revulsed and sickened in the presence of lies and the noxious ripples they create. Not the little ones, white lies told to negotiate life—or course, white lies are a grey area!
But I think we all recognize the big ones and this recognition is literally sickening. Famously, children, too, sense lies, and they are always testing the limits of lying themselves (“dog ate my homework”). This awareness of honesty v. dishonesty is something innate in humans (and other animals? dogs?) that can be lost or blunted through socialization.
Maybe is has something to do with survival, awareness of danger.
The mental, social, and emotional damage of living in a mendacious atmosphere—living a lie—was well recognized in the USSR.
We are in the same boat now in “the West,” as more and more people sense the rot.
This authority or awareness does not come from God. It is in the gut. Psychopaths lack it.
But if one believes the authority to perceive and name mendacity and dishonesty comes from God, so be it! That surely is a great “brand” for honesty.

Posted by: Jane | Jan 21 2024 14:24 utc | 343

I think the Palestinians might be quite happy with a situation similar to what the White Americans granted to the American Indians.
Posted by: RLTW | Jan 21 2024 5:21 utc | 271
================
I very much doubt that.
In any event, the Encounter between Europeans and Native Americans is so much more complex than is generally acknowledged.

Posted by: Jane | Jan 21 2024 14:27 utc | 344

Posted by: canuck | Jan 21 2024 13:15 utc | 332
==============
You are absolutely right.
I guess this is OT, but what the hell, it is Sunday.
For more info on real, nutrition-dense food vs. fake and dangerous foods, check out also the website of the Weston A. Price Foundation.
I have read a detailed biochemical or maybe the better word is molecular explanation of the reason consumption of seed oils (esp. canola and soy) leads to obesity: namely, the inability of the liver to break the molecules down so that they can be turned into energy; instead they get stored in the body as more and more fat. I believe this article was posted by Dr. Mercola.
Bottom line: Use butter, bacon fat, suet, lard, etc. in your cooking and baking. If a cake recipe calls for vegetable oil, use melted butter or ghee. The cake will taste so much better!

Posted by: Jane | Jan 21 2024 14:38 utc | 345

@ Posted by: canuck | Jan 21 2024 13:43 utc | 338
Lol.
First thing kiddo. Explain EXACTLY how I did what you accuse me of?
YOU mentioned Your Mum – I didn’t.
If you bring up a subject be prepared to be pushed back on it.
And secondly how exactly am I “Going to Regret it”
Are you seriously threatening me with physical violence all the way from wherever you are to East London where I am?
If you can actually see my posting history , I hardly ever lose my rag against anyone here – unless they are channeling full blown Nazi or Fascist – but your ubiquitous postings and posturing , including the Bon Mot you introduced , is a fair target.
Ball in your court – let me know when you in town and I’ll arrange a meet down Brick Lane – that’s where we settle differences with people of unsavoury fake opinions.
Ps you might have noticed that I put a smiley there too – I had no particular problem with you , except the off-topic ubiquitousness – but now I’ll have to be wary and look over my shoulder everywhere I go just incase … you Canuks are touchy it seems.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jan 21 2024 14:47 utc | 346

OT Posted by: Jane | Jan 21 2024 14:38 utc | 345
Guess who financed the first seed oils: John D. Rockefeller (1) in 1909
“When did we start eating seed oils?
Bye Bye Seed Oils – My SuperHero Foods
1909
They introduced Crisco, which used cottonseed oil, as the first major introduction of seed oil into our diets in 1909. Animal fats such as lard, butter, tallow were 99% of all additional fat to our diet before 1909! There has been no evolutionary precedence for using seed oils throughout our entire human history.”
Olive oil or cold pressed oils are alright as long as they aren’t put at high temperatures when pressed cold-no chemicals. Hot press like canola oil, soybean oil, cottonseed oil, they have many chemicals used in the process as the seeds are not water heavy such as the olive. These chemicals used in these process mess up our gut which leads to inflammation which leads to many, many diseases such as diabetes, heart disease, strokes etc.

Posted by: canuck | Jan 21 2024 14:58 utc | 347

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jan 21 2024 14:47 utc | 346
No apology I see -you are utterly disgraceful.

Posted by: canuck | Jan 21 2024 15:06 utc | 348

RLTW | Jan 21 2024 5:21 utc | 271
If you were more courteous your posts might elicit replies, despite all this nonsense about “my white children’ etc.

Posted by: bevin | Jan 21 2024 15:26 utc | 349

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jan 21 2024 14:47 utc | 346
Hey don’t lump us all in with this incessant troll.
lol

Posted by: ld | Jan 21 2024 15:35 utc | 350

Hey there, friend: you do know that tobacco was only spread worldwide after Europe made contact with the Americas, yeah? Prior to that, tobacco was strictly a Native American thing, unshared by any other peoples.
Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jan 21 2024 2:17 utc | 238
Tobacco is a New World plant.
Posted by: Jane | Jan 21 2024 2:49 utc | 247
OT chocolate was found by westerners as the Aztec smoked it in tobacco leaves.
Posted by: Hankster | Jan 21 2024 4:09 utc | 258
These statements are not quite correct. The principal error is anachronism. Anochronism afflicts western historiography of the world and its inhabitants as each generation “discovers” and translates foreign novelties into vernacular languages of imperial agents. Last year, “das Korn” transiting, or not, the Black Sea (the Euxine) temporarily confounded common understanding of grains purortedly delivered to starving Africans.
You can read about the plants used, which contained nicotine but were not tobacco plants here and here.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 21 2024 4:30 utc | 261
Bingo.
Leo Weiner’s tl;dr Africa and the discovery of America, vol. 1/2 (1920), presents a dictionary of 15th century Portguese and Spanish plantations and “Triangle Trade” nomenclature, including but limited to tabac, “wool”, “linen,” and “cotton.”
Then, there’s the 14th century translations from French and Italian dialects, and Latin into 18th and 19th century vintages of “Romano-british” English: The Travels of Ser Marco Polo after the 8th Crusade (1270), along the Silk Road from the Promise Land into the mythic kingdoms of Prester John conquered by the several Mohammetan Tartar khans.
One thing is certain. He few words to describe what he “discovered” unless it was gold, silk, paper money, or handsome women.

Posted by: sln2002 | Jan 21 2024 15:43 utc | 351

224
good writers eustach mullins, douglas reed
a book of importance is by arthur koestler the 13th tribe you see most of those pirates in the rothschild family built knesset are non semite turkic mongrel pirates khazarian ashkanazim crime syndicate.
oriental jews are few and far between like the many african jews these folks have been sterilized or culled.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/eliseknutsen/2013/01/28/israel-foribly-injected-african-immigrant-women-with-birth-control/
the trap is in calling them jews because they are not they are they belong to the devil these turckic russio mongrel mongel land pirates identity thieves name stealers.
mix these evil doers in with danish,norway,dutch,german and brit crown royals city of london psycho and usa inter breading and you have the biggest criminal enterprise that ever existed imposters who self identify as yahu
“We will have a world government whether you like it or not. The only question is whether that government will be achieved by conquest or consent.”
yahu Banker Paul Warburg, a CFR member, February 17, 1950, as he testified before the U.S. Senate).

Posted by: todd l | Jan 21 2024 15:44 utc | 352

I’m grateful for the commentary on Michael Hudson and his interview with Danny Haiphong (@ NakedCapitalism). In my own mindscape, I have very little understanding of most economists. Socialists such as Hudson most closely approximate the kind of thinking we employ when considering matters of physical reality, but even Hudson is all about growth: that putting financiers in charge is bad for economic growth.
Unbounded, infinite growth is manifestly impossible in any bounded, finite system. This truth is so simple, it’s definitional; and yet Herman Daly’s economic insight along these lines has been forgotten or ignored by almost all economists. Ecological economics is strictly a fringe subject. I don’t get it. Even if you think humans can keep plundering the planet twice as much every few decades, at some point there are problems when “resources” inevitably prove finite.
Some subjects strike me as so clear, while eluding even the best and brightest (such as Michael Hudson), it makes me feel like an extraterrestrial, like a visitor from another planet, with entirely different cognitive operating systems.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jan 21 2024 15:56 utc | 353

As DunGroanin among I suspect others (sorry, the thread was too long for me but to peruse) have noted:
Russia and Iran have inked a mutual defense treaty.
Israel must be scared to daylights, now.
By contrast, Iran must be secure in a way it hasn’t been for five decades.
Interesting times….

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jan 21 2024 16:15 utc | 354

Pacifica,
That cannot be correct. A mutual DEFENSE treaty?? Holy cow if that’s right….

Posted by: Johnny | Jan 21 2024 16:19 utc | 355

Some subjects strike me as so clear, while eluding even the best and brightest (such as Michael Hudson), it makes me feel like an extraterrestrial, like a visitor from another planet, with entirely different cognitive operating systems.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Jan 21 2024 15:56 utc | 353
================
Maybe Hudson talks about growth.
But my takeaway is that he talks more about creating prosperity—decent lives in decent societies—for people who are here now and in the pipeline.
He mentions ecological factors in Chinese planning, and spends a lot of air on the inherent inefficiency (waste of resources of all kinds) in the current Western deindustrialization/outsourcing model.
I am sure that Dr. Hudson is perfectly aware of “limits to growth” thinking, just as he is perfectly aware of the doings of the Israel lobby in the USA.
I wouldn’t dare dream of speaking for Hudson (!!), but I can imagine that he might say, regarding limits to growth, something like “Humans will cross those bridges when they come to them, and some groups/nations will be in better shape than others to get to the other side.”

Posted by: Jane | Jan 21 2024 16:23 utc | 356

There’s a guy — I think he calls himself Trailer Trash Tim or some such, that dismantles the entire system of the “dispensasionalists”
Posted by: Lavieja | Jan 21 2024 12:59 utc | 330
Trailer Trash Tim? Too funny.
—
Indigenous cigarettes have six ingredients.
Mass produced cigarettes have 4,000 chemicals , ingredients.
Which one would you rather smoke?
My Uncle prefers the Indigenous.
Posted by: canuck | Jan 21 2024 13:26 utc | 334
Off topic but interesting, nay, useful. Now let’s talk about your uncle.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jan 21 2024 17:20 utc | 357

JUDAISM HATES AND DESPISES CHRISTIANITY
AND WHAT THIS MAN SAID IS SPOT ON REGARDING JUDAISMS VIEW OF GENTILES AND OF CHRISTAINS
Any Christian who thinks otherwise is a fool unto Christ and himself.
THE TALMUD HAS A CODE WORD FOR CHRIST – BALAAN
ACCORDING TO THE TALMUD CHRIST IS IN HELL BOILING IN A CAULDRON OF HIS OWN EXCREMENT.
here we have
a brave honest man a truth teller
Yossi Gurvitz: When Israel Is Mighty
https://invidious.fdn.fr/watch?v=YSy6ENVAJlY

Posted by: todd l | Jan 21 2024 17:24 utc | 358

Financial Times:
“EU seeks ‘consequences’ for Israel over opposition to Palestinian statehood
Bloc’s foreign ministers step up pressure on Netanyahu to reverse his resistance to two-state solution”
OK be cynical about faux this and that but this is quite something .

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jan 21 2024 17:26 utc | 359

@ Posted by: ld | Jan 21 2024 15:35 utc | 350
I apologise for generalising you one of my faves.
Some of my best friends .. etc 😘

Posted by: DunGroanin | Jan 21 2024 17:30 utc | 360

ACCORDING TO THE TALMUD CHRIST IS IN HELL BOILING IN A CAULDRON OF HIS OWN EXCREMENT.
Posted by: todd l | Jan 21 2024 17:24 utc | 358
What a coincidence. I just had the same fantasy about Netanyahu.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jan 21 2024 17:32 utc | 361

Talmud is an antisemitic book. Jesus was a Jew.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Jan 21 2024 17:46 utc | 362

canuck | Jan 21 2024 13:31 utc | 336–
Thanks for your reply. IMO, the workings of Neoliberalism and its history are important to understand besides the older Big Picture, so I’d suggest Killing the Host if you don’t have it.

Posted by: karlof1 | Jan 21 2024 18:35 utc | 363

Posted by: Lavieja | Jan 21 2024 12:59 utc | 330
“Trailer Trash Tim? Too funny.”
Hey! It ain’t home till you take the wheels off.

Posted by: golddigger | Jan 21 2024 19:23 utc | 364

A Helmsman should not be at the wheel of a warship while texting and adjusting his bra.
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2024/01/19/watch-moment-two-warships-collide-tearing-hole-in-side-of-minesweeper-protecting-gulf/

Posted by: golddigger | Jan 21 2024 19:34 utc | 365

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Jan 21 2024 10:48 utc | 311
Incidentally Sakineh Bagoom @ 256 mentioned cyanide as an ingredient (albeit in tiny amounts) in tobacco in cigarettes. Another dangerous item found in cigarettes, also in tiny amounts, is polonium.

They used to list tar and nicotine content on all packs. But I read years ago that FAR worse for the lungs especially than either is sugar which most processed cigarettes contained, especially in England (Dunhill, B&H which have a very different feel and smell then Turkish or French Gitanes which are usually darker tobaccos that do far less damage – except to the throat if over-indulged).
The commercial product, I suspect, is designed to benefit Big Pharma by generally undermining the vitality of those consuming them and ending up with all sorts of different ailments, not just lung cancer. And of course part of the chemical inputs are specifically in there to heighten addictive properties – quite effectively.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jan 21 2024 21:39 utc | 366

Posted by: canuck | Jan 21 2024 13:15 utc | 332
“animal fats bad for the the ticker ”
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Jan 21 2024 1:40 utc | 230
Incorrect. Animal fats are good (1) for the heart…

True, but there is a HUGE difference between commercially raised animal fat and organic free range animal fat, like night and day. The former is unquestionably bad for you, the latter is unquestionably very good for you.
Similarly, liver is almost like medicine, one can even use it to help grow back teeth; but modern factory-grown liver is filled with no end of toxins and drugs so is basically toxic. I won’t feed it even to my animals.
Variables always important such matters.

Posted by: Scorpion | Jan 21 2024 21:51 utc | 367

Peter AU1 | Jan 21 2024 3:11 utc | 254
*** There has always been certain levels of obesity, and there are still smokers but obesity only became a major health issue after widespread smoking stopped.***
Partly that’s so — but don’t overlook the simultaneous demonisation (and substitution with chemical concoctions) of natural fats and sugar (hello, aspartame in particular) in diet.
Effectively, the governments’ own corporate associated health-stazi promoting ill health for ulterior motives … but, dear public, just keep taking the ubiquitously prescribed statins and you may not remember that.

Posted by: Cynic | Jan 21 2024 22:55 utc | 368

laguerre 303
Taqiyya, not taqwa.

Posted by: Giyane | Jan 21 2024 23:04 utc | 369

Posted by: pq | Jan 21 2024 13:10 utc | 331
Sigh all you want. The White Man won the war. And we have been more than magnanimous. So fuck off with your self pity.

Posted by: RLTW | Jan 22 2024 1:35 utc | 370

Posted by: RLTW | Jan 22 2024 1:35 utc | 370
My sympathy was for your mindset. I suspect you already understood that.
Your mindset—shared by the warmongers in the halls of power–is at the core of all the problems we see today with failing wars and failing imperial projects.
You are the one wallowing in self pity about your “white children” not getting as much as the indigenous people of the Americas. Not sure why the degree of exposure to sun and function of your melanocytes or that of your children is so important to you.
There you go, a four syllable word for you to expand your limited vocab.

Posted by: pq | Jan 22 2024 9:56 utc | 371

‘No good deed goes unpunished’ is a phrase from one of the Greek tragedians. Sophocles? One might look it up. Only it is a desperate paradox and essentially false. No good deed concieves of reward or punishment, if it is truly good. It just is on its own merit.

Posted by: T J Foster | Jan 22 2024 10:45 utc | 372

Not only is the West not ‘going down a vortex,’ it has barely even begun to tighten it’s belt. It is still club hours and halcyon days. Or you do not know what ‘the West’ is. No doubt we are seeing disintegration and folly after folly, but nothing like this was before. The West is truly, and has been for two centuries, dragging the world along, into uncharted territory. Again, the nonsense it is about to ‘collapse’ is not only stupid, but taken seriously, borderline sadistic. It would be catastrophic for the whole world if it did, but morons don’t understand what they are dealing with.

Posted by: T J Foster | Jan 22 2024 11:12 utc | 373

Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Jan 21 2024 1:08 utc | 215
“Will someone please remind me of the very good reason we humans ever had for allowing wealth-grabbing to be unlimited?”
An interesting and profoundly important aspect of the world we have found ourselves in.
In discussing possible econo-political systems with a close friend, thinking around this aspect arose. We came to a tentative conclusion that a “maximum wealth” should be imposed, and that those at the top would only ever get a dollar-for-dollar increase in this allowable wealth, with indexation based on the income/wealth of those on minimum wage, or pensions, disability, unemployment benefits, etc. It could help put a stop to the exponentially growing disparity in wealth in a long-term fashion.
My friend was leaning towards the $1B range, whereas my personal preference was for it to be set closer to $50M-$100M (the “average punter wins the lottery” range).
Just a thought…

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Jan 22 2024 13:06 utc | 374

Posted by: Pacifica Advocate | Jan 21 2024 2:17 utc | 238
Sorry, bit I’ll have to side with Peter there. Cultures from around the globe have inhaled smoke for ceremonial or therapeutic reasons for indeed millenia. I would hazard a guess that it followed hot on the tail of the acquired ability to set fire to stuff at will.
There were many traditional smoking mixtures used in traditional European herbal (folk) medicine, although I’m not sure how common it was before the arrival of tobacco on the continent. I did do some study into this years ago, and was amazed at the number of common herbs that were smoked for various chest conditions. Among them were: coltsfoot (named Tussilago), lavender, rosemary, thyme, oregano and marshmallow.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Jan 22 2024 14:34 utc | 375

Posted by: Jane | Jan 21 2024 2:49 utc | 247
“The highly addictive nature of modern cigarettes may explain the glide to addictive eating as a replacement.”
The eating is in part the removal of the appetite-suppressive effects of tobacco on cessation, as well as being heavily related to the dopamine-based reward mechanism in the human brain. The drop in dopamine stimulation can be re-instigated by eating, especially eating that triggers the reward mechanisms such as chocolate and high sugar/salt/fat foods.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Jan 22 2024 14:50 utc | 376

Jon_in_AU | Jan 22 2024 14:50 utc | 376
*** The drop in dopamine stimulation can be re-instigated by eating, especially eating that triggers the reward mechanisms such as chocolate and high sugar/salt/fat foods.***
You mean the demonised foods that everyone was frantically warned off?
Natural fat, sugar and salt…..
How strange there was much less obesity re *non-smokers* when these were not being replaced.
Now check out what the allegedly “healthy” replacements such as Aspartame do have as known but little publicised side-effects.
Probably the biggest contributor to contemporary obesity — and behavioural problems.

Posted by: Cynic | Jan 22 2024 21:27 utc | 377

Posted by: RLTW | Jan 21 2024 7:29 utc | 293
“Brother, I am not against you. I’m Scotts-Irish. My people have always been the oppressed. Never the oppressor.”
Interesting point. I’m also Scottish/Irish (largely), and in reading several books around the subject of the Scottish Highland Clearances, one of the authors stayed that Scottish and Irish settlers were often among the most brutal towards indigenous peoples in the US and Australia.
The oppressed becoming the oppressor.
I think there’s a parallel there between that period and the current behaviour of the European Jewish population that is currently committing genocide against the native inhabitants of Palestine.
Just a point to ponder.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Jan 23 2024 5:09 utc | 378

Or, for the pendants among us:
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 21 2024 12:18 utc | 320
pendants -> pedants.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Jan 21 2024 12:18 utc | 321
You just reminded me of an old joke. I once told it to a table of regulars at a bar, but it fell flat as no-one knew what a pedant was. I no longer drink there…
Q: How many pedants does it take to change a light-globe?
A: None. Because pedants don’t change light-globes, they replace them.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Jan 23 2024 6:01 utc | 379

Posted by: Cynic | Jan 22 2024 21:27 utc | 377
Thanks for your comment. I was just aiming to point out how much the dopamine-based reward cycle affects our overt behaviours. Substitution is one way to break addiction, but can lead to behaviour that might be counter-productive in the longer term.
Nothing wrong with fat, salt, or sugar, per se. Aspartame on the other hand, I chose to stear well clear of.
Apologies all for the OT. Back to the mayhem…sigh.

Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Jan 23 2024 12:51 utc | 380

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