Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 13, 2023

U.S. Military Has More Unfeasible Plans For Ukraine

Yesterday the Biden administration 'declassified' laughable numbers about alleged Russian losses. It did not help. Zelenski's mission to get more money from Congress has failed:

Following a roughly 30-minute meeting with Zelensky – their first one-on-one encounter – House Speaker Mike Johnson said the Biden administration’s response to congressional Republicans’ demands has been “insufficient,” and reiterated his stance that a deal remains unlikely without a “transformative change” at the border.

The Republicans also asked the White House for its strategy in Ukraine. But as the New York Times reported yesterday, there is none.

U.S. and Ukraine Search for a New Strategy After Failed Counteroffensive

American and Ukrainian military leaders are searching for a new strategy that they can begin executing early next year to revive Kyiv’s fortunes and flagging support for the country’s war against Russia, according to U.S. and Ukrainian officials.
...
The United States is stepping up the face-to-face military advice it provides to Ukraine, dispatching a three-star general to Kyiv to spend considerable time on the ground. U.S. and Ukrainian military officers say they hope to work out the details of a new strategy next month in a series of war games scheduled to be held in Wiesbaden, Germany.

That the counter-offensive had failed has been obvious since mid of June. A reason for the failure were fake war-games during which the parameters were skewed until the games showed that Ukraine would win:

Logic dictates that any responsible use of the KORA simulation system would have predicted the failure of the 47th Brigade’s attack. According to The Washington Post, the officers of the 47th Brigade “planned their assaults and then let the [KORA] program show them the results – how their Russian enemies might respond, where they could make a breakthrough and where they would suffer losses.” The KORA simulation allowed the Ukrainian officers to coordinate their actions “to test how they’d work together on the battlefield.”
Given that the Ukrainian force structure was insufficient to accomplish the mission-critical task of suppression, there was no chance for the Ukrainian forces to accomplish the actual assault requirements of a breaching operation – the destruction of enemy forces on the opposite side of the obstacle barrier being breached. The Ukrainians, however, came away from their KORA experience confident that they had crafted a winning plan capable of overcoming the Russian defenses in and around Orekhov.
When one examines the structure of a KORA-based simulation, it becomes clear that the system is completely dependent upon the various inputs which define the simulation as a whole.

Now the U.S. is sending one of its generals to take command of the Ukrainian army and will launch more war games. To what outcome will their parameters be skewed.

Apparently the time since late June was insufficient to come up with a new strategy for Ukraine. This will not do:

Some in the U.S. military want Ukraine to pursue a “hold and build” strategy — to focus on holding the territory it has and building its ability to produce weapons over 2024. The United States believes the strategy will improve Ukraine’s self-sufficiency and ensure Kyiv is in a position to repel any new Russian drive.

The goal would be to create enough of a credible threat that Russia might consider engaging in meaningful negotiations at the end of next year or in 2025.

At the same time, Ukrainian officials are examining strategies that build on their successful deep strikes on Crimea last fall. They are searching for creative ways to keep Russia off balance with attacks against arms factories, weapons depots and train lines for moving munitions, and to score symbolic victories. One Ukrainian former senior military official declined to discuss the proposals but said the new plan is being refined and is “very daring.”

The plan is that Ukraine will go into defense mode while committing more terrorism. But why would Russia let Ukraine build real defense lines? Ukraine is starved of artillery ammunition. It does not have the troops to hold all lines.

And whatever line it can build will break under intensive fire.

In the Summer of 1943, after German attack on Kursk had failed, the Soviets went into an offensive mode that did not stop until its troops captured Berlin. The German army retreated to defense lines, then retreated again and again - all the way back to Berlin. It took nearly two years, but the outcome was obvious as soon as the attack on Kursk had failed.

I expect something similar to happen in Ukraine.

The U.S. is starting its typical mission creep:

Gen. Christopher G. Cavoli, the top American commander in Europe, has been taking a bigger role in coordinating with Ukrainian officials.

The Pentagon has also decided to dispatch Lt. Gen. Antonio A. Aguto Jr., who commands the support of Ukraine from a base in Germany, to spend lengthy periods of time in Kyiv. General Aguto will work more directly with the country’s military leadership to improve the advice the United States is offering, American officials said. While the White House has opted not to have U.S. military advisers in the country permanently, General Aguto’s frequent rotations in and out of Kyiv would inch toward the end of that restriction.

A three star general does not come alone. He has a full group of staff, dozens, which will now become military advisors on the ground in Ukraine. They will also become priority targets.

And what do those advisors know about an industrial warfare that Ukraine soldiers do not know. Well, nothing.

Yves Smith as well as Simplicius have further thoughts on this.

I for one see no change yet of the trajectory Ukraine is on. It is losing badly while its propaganda is still claiming victory. Consider this from today's Washington Post:

Loud explosions jolted many residents out of bed around 3 a.m. in central Kyiv, followed by air raid alert sirens a few minutes later. Ukraine’s air force said that antiaircraft defenses shot down all 10 ballistic missiles that were launched at Kyiv. That assertion could not be independently confirmed.

Multiple missile impacts happened BEFORE the air alarm went on. But the Ukrainian military claims to have shut all incoming missiles down. That does not sound like a plausible time line to me. I, in fact believe that the few air defense system Kiev was give, like its artillery, pretty much out of ammunition.

With no further aid coming from the U.S., and potentially also not from Europe, it is high time to shut the war down.

Posted by b on December 13, 2023 at 15:04 UTC | Permalink

Comments
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First

Posted by: First | Dec 13 2023 15:06 utc | 1

Zelensky's job has always been to raise funds, and actually he was quite good at it, except that now he has wore out his welcome.

The whole concept of decision by "war games" suggest that once again maneuver warfare is anticipated. The problem is that the current weapons greatly favor defense, and that minimizes situations where maneuver warfare can be useful. It all becomes a World War One style slugfest.

What I notice the most is how slow our side is to adjust to the what is actually happening, the boots on the ground stuff. An obviously too costly in terms of attrition offense is continued for months longer then desirable. The proof was in and we should have quit feeding men into the meat grinder. Plus we are not nearly as quick to shift production to the weapons systems that have proven most successful and are in greatest use. Perhaps NATO leadership is better than Zaleski's amateur efforts, but on balance it is nothing special.

Posted by: Jmaas | Dec 13 2023 15:27 utc | 2

So the first round of war games was a failure, and now they are going to repeat the same exercises using the same program and hope for better results. Riiight... Has any U.S.military or contract official been fired or forced to resign over this big failure? Have any contracts been cancelled, renegotiated, or prosecuted for fraud or failure to deliver? Any contract funds been clawed back? No? Didn't think so. It looks like a failure to us, but I'm not sure the military establishment really sees this a failure. Just keeping the gravy train going on and on. It is starting to seem somewhat like Viet Nam.

Posted by: Maxcrat | Dec 13 2023 15:33 utc | 3

Corn pop didn't sound very convinced either when he was squinting at the autocue saying we can't let Putin win!

Posted by: jpc | Dec 13 2023 15:35 utc | 4

All our divisions are moving forward more and more actively. The progress is significant. However, in order to avoid image losses in anticipation of Zelensky’s visits to the United States, the entire front line is literally “pelted with meat” by the enemy in order to avoid the surrender of a large populated area. At the same time, no matter what promises the United States made to Ukraine, the forces and means prepared for the counter-offensive have dried up. Moreover, this year alone, Ukraine lost more than a hundred thousand people trying to do at least something at the front.

The Ukrainian side ends the year with a negative result and zero results. All equipment allocated and advertised by the West has already been destroyed by 70-80%. This is also seen in the United States, which smiles at Zelensky, but understands that this war is lost for Ukraine. We will continue our work. Next year will not be the easiest. But by the end of this winter we will see the ranks of the Ukrainian paramilitary forces shaken.

No amount of funding will save the Ukrainian drug addicted leadership from the current situation. Even the US military-industrial complex is not able to make up for Ukraine’s weapons shortage. The United States is primarily interested in its reserves. This whole game was started, firstly, in order to launder money (in the end, all the funds returned to the pockets of American billionaires) and, secondly, to weaken Russia (which emerged from this situation stronger than it was).

The Supreme Commander in Chief of the Russian Federation sets the task as follows: to preserve the lives of soldiers and crush the enemy. This is a wise decision. We strictly adhere to it. Therefore, we have much less losses and more results.

We have absolutely no shortage of volunteers. People walk consciously. Moreover, we have a fairly strict selection process. I am proud to command the most international unit. There are representatives from all over Russia, the former USSR and the CIS. And also Germans, Greeks, Gypsies, Jews, etc. The units are also commanded by fighters of different nationalities. Accordingly, I believe that we do not need large-scale mobilization. We have already destroyed the entire mobilization resource of Ukraine. We have enough patriotic volunteers in our country! And there will be even more!

@AptiAlaudinovAKHMAT

Posted by: rpst | Dec 13 2023 15:41 utc | 5

I wouldn't exclude 13.000 casualties for RF in avdiivka.

First it's two months worth of heavy combat, then even if it's only out of combat casualties, only half are dead.

And if we're talking about almost 7.000 KIA, I'd highball AFU KIA in avdiivka between 50.000 and 55.000 (plenty of units called to defend it, and being heavily bombed).

Less than 1.000 KIA daily in avdiivka doesn't look much.

Now if we add the other brilliant "media ready" fronts, should we multiply by 3 or more?

When Zalluzanny talked about 20.000 monthly as a bare minimum he wasn't considering holding all these lines, only critical ones.

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 13 2023 15:41 utc | 6

Thanks b, as always for great write up.. but allow me (respectfully) to correct a few items (pun), to define the hegemon point of view!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

“Now the U.S. is sending one of its generals to take command of the Ukrainian army and will launch more war games. “

Look, they won the war game, YOU can't take that away from them a win is a win is a win in their books!!!!!!


“And whatever line it can build will break under intensive fire. “

Thats easy, they'd print billions and pass it through various congregational committees and distributed thru various districts to some US based MIC (Halliburton, etc..) then the MIC will hire some Uki contractor to build the “WALL” .. well, if the ruskies manage to destroy it, then its the Uki's fault, they don't know how to pour concrete!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

“Multiple missile impacts happened BEFORE the air alarm went on. But the Ukrainian military claims to have shut all incoming missiles down. That does not sound like a plausible time line to me “

!!! see there you go again,, you got that all wrong!!!! see the missiles were down in land. May be they got “lucky” and landed on US air D asses(ts). But they were down for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, there is your news for the day!!!!

Posted by: Rd | Dec 13 2023 15:42 utc | 7

Too bad Cavoli, Aguto Et Al are using standard operating procedures from an age before drone warfare. If you aren't ahead, you are behind in warfare.

Posted by: punditious | Dec 13 2023 15:42 utc | 8

Ukranazi propaganda reminds me of a famous Völkischer Beobachter headline in late April 1945: "Berlin: Mass Grave For Soviet Armour" ("Berlin: Massengrab Für Sowjetpanzer"). Meanwhile German civilians noticed that every "victory" announced by Goebbels' media was happening closer and closer to their own homes.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 13 2023 15:47 utc | 9

Look, they won the war game

Posted by: Rd | Dec 13 2023 15:42 utc | 7

Had to contain myself not to outright steal all of sonar's article, just some to


The fundamental flaw is the U.S. military personnel are pretending to have experience that they do not have. The U.S. military is like a Driver’s Education school. They are qualified and competent to teach students how to drive a car on city streets. They can teach how to drive in reverse, how to parallel park and how to navigate getting on to a super highway. But they are not qualified to teach GT race car drivers how to be competitive at the 24 Hours of Le Mans or the Indianapolis 500.

To extend the race car metaphor, professional drivers also have the best equipment and crew teams ready to service those vehicles if there is a problem. Ukraine was given a patchwork system of NATO tanks and personnel carriers that lacked standardization

The biggest problem is the self-delusion of the United States. The American people have been bamboozled into believing that our multi-billion dollar military is the best in the world. It is not.

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 13 2023 15:47 utc | 10

I think that the unbelievable stories about Russian "losses" are meant to help implement a narrative shift.

The narrative shift is meant to hide fact that the idea of expelling Russia from Ukraine (the original narrative) is proving to be Impossible. The new plan is to go on the defensive and offer a cease fire. The new narrative will be that "we forced Russia into a ceasefire due to the horrendous losses that were inflicted on them." That is a way for the Collective West to save face. The people in the State Department somehow believe that the more difficult chore of overcoming defensive positions will convince the Russians to accept a ceasefire.

That won't happen, of course. It is just wishful thinking.

But I think that was the purpose of the "intelligence leaks" about "horrendous Russian losses." It is a last ditch effort to establish a narrative that hides the reality of the disaster that has resulted from the absurd plan to provoke Russia into this war.

Posted by: Mike from Jersey | Dec 13 2023 15:48 utc | 11

Top Secret. NO FORN.
Source of US intelligence re Russian losses:
https://www.mil.gov.ua/en/
315,640 Russians claimed killed by Nov 16 (mid November)

Note, this equates to about 44 men killed per thousand men per month, assuming a total force of 700,000 engaged in both combat operations and all other combat service support operations, lpgistics, training etc in support of operations in Ukraine.
For comparison, the Red Army suffered KIAs at an average rate of 23 per thousand men per month in WW2
(6,277,000 KIA from average Red Army of 5,779,000 for 47 months ==> (6,277,000/5,779)/47 = 23

So the badass Ukrainians are killing Russian at rwice the rate the Nazi Germans did in WW2!

If any one wants to believe that, I have a guaranteed winning Lottery ticket for you.

Posted by: ltexpat | Dec 13 2023 15:49 utc | 12

The Russian army has completely captured Marinka, says Nikolai Voroshnov, aerial reconnaissance officer of the 72nd Mechanized Infantry Brigade of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

“Maryinka has fallen. It’s less than 14 km along a straight road to Kurakhovo. Fields, plantings, a farmstead and a small village. After Avdos (Avdeevka - Ed.), they will throw all their strength into a breakthrough in the direction of Kurakhovo-Ugledar. I’m almost sure that the next one will be here offensive fist of the orcs. Soon the "Kurakhovo fortress" awaits us, -
writes Voroshnov.

At the same time, Russian military public pages write that the Ukrainian Armed Forces are still in the northwestern part of Marinka (but some Russian public pages also report that the city has already been completely taken).

At the same time, General of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Tarnavsky said today that the Ukrainian army “steadfastly holds the defense in the Maryinsky and Avdeevsky directions.”


https://t.me/first_political/62465
Marinka was lost to the Ukrainian Armed Forces - it was a good fortified area that was created in 8 years; back in early December it was clear that the Ukrainian Armed Forces would retreat. Next, the Avdeevka stranglehold will close, which will force the Ukrainian Armed Forces to retreat completely from Donetsk.

The attacks in the Gorlovka direction were more like PR actions that were organized against the front positions of the DPR, followed by a rapid retreat of the Ukrainian Armed Forces without consolidation.

In fact, Zelensky understands that the Armed Forces of Ukraine will retreat everywhere and begins to declare a guerrilla war, but it will not produce results, since in six months all the cells will be cleared, having only managed to blow up a couple of officials, journalists and police cars, which will not affect the course of events.

It is also difficult to wage a guerrilla war when morale is at rock bottom and the country is rocked by corruption scandals and intensified political squabbles.

Now everything indicates that the Russian army will slowly but surely push through the defenses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, while clearing out the rear reserves of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and destroying the air defense/radar stations of Ukraine, which will create huge gaps in the defense and increase the dominance of the Russians in the air.

As a result, this will lead to the fact that at one moment the defense line of the Ukrainian Armed Forces may crumble.
According to the source, the Ukrainian Armed Forces will defend themselves with infantry only in large cities, and the Russians will begin to pass through the fields quickly, but this is closer to the end of 2024.


https://t.me/legitimniy/16888

Posted by: Down South | Dec 13 2023 15:50 utc | 13

Ah, found the original page! It was from 27 April 1945

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Panzerbarapril27page1_zps852023f0.PNG

and even says the nazis were a bulwark against Bolshevism and were fighting for Europe.

Now what does that remind me of?

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 13 2023 15:50 utc | 14

Los generales americanos si van a Ucrania es para aprender no para enseñar puesto que carecen de experiencia bélica contra un país desarrollado. De hecho es la primera vez que tienen ocasión de contemplar una guerra de verdad de cerca desde los tiempos de Paton.

Posted by: Frasco | Dec 13 2023 15:53 utc | 15

In Ukraine, an extremely difficult situation with reserves has developed along the entire front. Winter, cold, illness and lack of rotation mow down no less personnel than enemy attacks. It is no longer possible to maneuver reserves; as a result, the defense sags in one sector or another.

It is noteworthy that military analysts have repeatedly said that the Ukrainian Armed Forces should have switched to a strategic defensive operation long ago, because they do not have the potential to conduct an offensive operation. “They have no choice but to defend themselves along the entire front. If they don’t do this, the Russians will defeat the Ukrainian army.

And then everything that has happened so far will end,” in particular, the Polish colonel, former deputy head of the Military Counterintelligence Service Maciej Matysiak. According to him, Ukrainians must defend themselves at all costs, rebuild their reserves and at the same time prepare for a Russian offensive. “They simply have no other choice,” he admitted.

But the combat capabilities of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are being reduced not only at the front, but also in the deep rear. Ukraine lacks not only shells, but also personnel to staff units and formations suffering losses at the front. As a result, raids and raids by military commissars in sanatoriums, sports institutions and gyms have become more frequent, with the goal of issuing as many summonses for military service to potential reservists as possible.


https://t.me/rezident_ua/20801
The deadlock at the front led to the Ukrainian Armed Forces going on the defensive. The counteroffensive has completely failed, but is the Ukrainian army ready for a positional war?

The fact that the Armed Forces of Ukraine had to go on the defensive back in October was stated by the former commander of the Ground Forces in Poland, General Waldemar Skrzypczak. “The Ukrainians should have switched to a strategic defensive operation long ago, because they do not have the potential to conduct an offensive operation,” stated He.

But in reality, not everything is so simple - if at least something was done in the Belarusian direction and in the north of Ukraine, then in the remaining territories the military command actually did not build defensive structures, hoping for the success of the counteroffensive. But now, in winter conditions and the weakening of financial assistance from the West, it will be problematic to do this - there is little money, equipment and building materials are tight.

In addition, in a totally corrupt state they will steal even during the construction of strategic objects, because much more can be written off on destroyed defensive structures than on roads.

There are problems in Ukraine with logistics - they are simply not structured, as indirectly indicated by the sharp increase in the number of military personnel with frostbite on their extremities who require amputation.


https://t.me/rezident_ua/20804

Posted by: Down South | Dec 13 2023 15:54 utc | 16

re: a three-star general to Kyiv
General officers usually (not always) gain their stars only by how well they suck up to their superiors, and don't know much about most everything worthwhile.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 13 2023 15:54 utc | 17

Going by what Biden/whitehouse are saying, it is likely they are busy trying to convince other countries bordering Russia to become the next supply of cannon fodder to throw as the Russians. Once or if that occurs, then all of European nato can be dragged into direct conflict with Russia.
Russia has been gearing up for the wider war that is still to come. Australia, still a British colony, has increased training and aid to Ukraine.


Australia expands Ukraine military training mission, faces growing pressure to re-open embassy in Kyiv https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-14/australia-under-pressure-to-reopen-kyiv-embassy/103224526

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 13 2023 15:56 utc | 18

Our sources in the OP said that the Biden Administration demands that Zelensky freeze the conflict from the spring of 2024 along the contact line. If the Office of the President refuses Sullivan's updated plan, the West will cut funding to Ukraine and continue to pump up Zaluzhny's rating as the new leader.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/20783
Our source in the OP said that Zelensky considers the new defense strategy for Ukraine a method to freeze the war. The Biden administration, together with the Pentagon, decided to repackage its demands in a new format so that the Office of the President would abandon a new counter-offensive and stop the conflict on the contact line.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/20795
Our source in the OP said that Zelensky abandoned the new military strategy that the Pentagon developed for Ukraine. Bankovaya continues to prepare a new spring counter-offensive; for these purposes, the Office of the President has agreed on increased mobilization.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/20808

Posted by: Down South | Dec 13 2023 15:58 utc | 19

Empire is going for a stalemate in Ukraine instead of a loss

Boots on the ground and body bags coming back to the US......Hmmm

Wonder what the younger set thinks about this?....grin

Thanks for all your efforts b. Quite the civilization war we are watching, eh?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 13 2023 16:00 utc | 20

USA made russia pay a heavy price for its aggression in Ukraine…heheheh…

Posted by: USA is #1 | Dec 13 2023 16:07 utc | 21

The New York Times wrote today that a Putin win in Ukraine would be very bad for European democracy. I kid you not.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 13 2023 16:08 utc | 22

People should maybe start listening to Putin. He promised a de-Nazification and de-militarization of Ukraine.
That is what he is now delivering.
You will be killed accordingly.
And that is the only way forward.

Posted by: g wiltek | Dec 13 2023 16:09 utc | 23

"If Russia gains the upper hand, it would be a blow to European democracy and a potential sign that the world has entered a new period of military aggression (LOL). Ukraine’s leaders and their allies hope they can prevent further Russian advances and inflict enough damage to make a stalemate seem like Putin’s best outcome."

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 13 2023 16:10 utc | 24

Speaking of unfeasible plans, any comments on the Redacted piece yesterday, that Von Der Liar is going to invoke a shady piece of text from the BREXIT treaty to require all UK forces, including the submarine fleet, to be bossed from Brussels?

I suspect the text is suitably vague, that a canny UK prime minister could avoid such actions.

However, we don't have a canny prime minister, we have a weak, supine WEF geezer imposed rather than elected, and several anti-Brexit cabinet ministers in the mix.


I still think it would be political dynamite to try and make such a move, but who knows, these days?

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Dec 13 2023 16:11 utc | 25

@Frasco | Dec 13 2023 15:53 utc | 15
Yes
translated from Spanish:
If American generals go to Ukraine it is to learn, not to teach, since they lack war experience against a developed country. In fact, it is the first time they have had the opportunity to see a real war up close since Patton's time.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 13 2023 16:13 utc | 26

I think Russia will decide when and how the war is going to be shut down.

Posted by: Perimetr | Dec 13 2023 16:14 utc | 27

b what a thoughtful synopsis.

Thank you.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 13 2023 16:26 utc | 28

On Maerican military capabilities...bingo.

I have been saying for over a year now Ukraine has revealed Maerica really is a paper tiger. Her doctrines, weapon systems, everything except ISR is completely unfit for purpose. Their officer class is a bunch of strutting peacocks and wannabe politicians who get promoted by being yes men.

Maericans still have this notion Maerica has the world's best military. But it's simply bullshit,.and serious analysts know this. I assume some of them might even be Maerican themselves.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 13 2023 16:33 utc | 29

So telling lies on the Internet doesn't win wars. Wonder if Washington learned anything? Doubt it.

Posted by: nook | Dec 13 2023 16:34 utc | 30

I've pretty well reached the conclusion that the US realized over a year ago that Ukraine was going to fall to Russia and that the whole last 18 months have been about killing Ukrainians and wrecking the country. Any dead Russians were just a bonus. That whole bridgehead down south seems to have been to ensure that no NATO trained troops would end up in Russian hands. They may now feel it's job done time to pack up and leave or that there are a few loose ends to finish off.

Posted by: Guy L'Estrange | Dec 13 2023 16:36 utc | 31

This is also known as the "wait-and-pray" strategy. You cave under your convex shield and hope the enemy gets bored and won't do anything. While hurdling the occasional from under the shield.

It seems to also be based on the idea that "arsenal of democracy will be ramped up again". Well, we already saw what happened when the grand deleur is there, but means of productions are not. I believe the price of artillery shells for US or Germany rose quickly from $2k to $6k per piece, because there is no quick way to ramp up anything. No doubt the same price increases could apply to pretty much everything else. A shell is one of the most simplest products.

Not that WEF societal experiments and policies over last decades in the west have been helping industries or skilled labor force, quite the contrary.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 13 2023 16:39 utc | 32

"The New York Times wrote today that a Putin win in Ukraine would be very bad for European democracy."
Jonathan W@ 22

Obviously a threat.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2023 16:39 utc | 33

Btw, Euro area industrial production printed a -6.4% year-on-year decline today, and month-on-month declined from last month. It barely recovered even from the COVID dip before, so it's continuing to a significantly lower level than pre-COVID.

https://tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/industrial-production

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 13 2023 16:43 utc | 34

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 13 2023 15:47 utc | 9

Russian losses in fights like Avdiivka have still been overwhelming, and they gotten closer by feet.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/12/us/politics/russia-intelligence-assessment.html?referringSource=articleShare

315000 out 360000 casualties can't be shrugged off.

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Dec 13 2023 16:43 utc | 35

Did Sholtz and the Germans actually threaten to declare war on Russia if Ukraine admits defeat?

I do hope the German people of today aren’t the same idiots they were in the 1930’s.

Best to get down to the Bundestag and drag that lot out before they do to Germany what the previous Nazis did 10’s of millions of dead and total destruction of Germany as a byproduct.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 13 2023 16:46 utc | 36

What happens to land / assets sold by Ukraine to US vulture Corps? Expect a fire-sale soon of anything of value in the Ukraine as the US/EU slush money dries up.

Lavrov should announce that the sales are illegitimate/ under duress and won't be recognised at the end of the war.

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Dec 13 2023 16:48 utc | 37

Ukraine is an excellent discussion thread today - informative and substantial.
I basically ditched MoA because of the overwhelming presence of the shallow yap crowd on the Gaza thread who just like to read their own drivel. Always the same names.
Let's hope they stay away from this thread when they wake up today.

Posted by: wilsonK | Dec 13 2023 16:49 utc | 38

315000 out 360000 casualties can't be shrugged off.

You're utterly delusional if you believe those numbers. I know you're struggling with the cognitive dissonance that Biden and Western media are lying their tits off about Ukraine, but I can't help you there. Russia has utterly humbled and dismembered the Ukrainian Armed Forces, and would do the same to any NATO force foolish enough to try to come in theater.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 13 2023 16:50 utc | 39

"[DoD/DoS/3LA]'s goal is to create enough of a credible threat that Russia might consider engaging in MEANINGFUL negotiations"

"MEANINGFUL", in 3LA-Americanese, means complete capitulation.

Yeah, good luck with that. As I said in 2014, any nation going after Russia at/near it's borders is involved in a losing proposition as anyone with ANY historical background would know.

We are ruled by conceited, sociopathic idiots...

Posted by: S Brennan | Dec 13 2023 16:51 utc | 40

When one examines the structure of a KORA-based simulation, it becomes clear that the system is completely dependent upon the various inputs which define the simulation as a whole.
You don't have to examine the structure of anything. All simulation systems in existence are completely dependent on their inputs, not limited to war games.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 13 2023 16:51 utc | 41

The lines are collapsing Z might not.get back to Ukraine before his Army capitulates.

Notice how he does not stay ever in Ukraine except for his Green screen ones.

He will end up being killed like Qaddafi.

At least he has 3 mansions and 2 yachts for his soon to be widow.

Posted by: Peace | Dec 13 2023 16:51 utc | 42

I basically ditched MoA because of the overwhelming presence of the shallow yap crowd on the Gaza thread

Oh no, whatever would people do without your thoughts? If you're an apologist for the mass murder Israel is inflicting on Gaza, I suggest you can find plenty of mainstream forums full of people ready to state their moral ambiguity over such 'difficult' issues as the morality of murdering children using jet aircraft.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 13 2023 16:53 utc | 43

Any thoughts about whether or not the coming BRICS expansion will influence thinking in the Vest with regards to ukraine?

If BRICS manages to implement an effective trade in commodities that bypass dollar, it must be bound to further elevate aeareness about the economic status in the entire nominal GDP-focused Western coalition.

Posted by: Et Norden | Dec 13 2023 16:56 utc | 44

Kyivstar, largest mobile operator in Ukraine has been hacked and shut down, and Kiev metro stations are flooding.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 13 2023 17:10 utc | 45

There was real air of defeat around Biden when he whined a day ago to the World, "We can't let Putin win."
Compared to the strutting announcements about what THEY were going to do to Putin back at the start in 2022, the whole story was told in that one pathetic line by that defeated, demented, old man.
The "Exceptional" country has lost, again.
Almost makes you want to have a little cry, doesn't it.

Posted by: wilsonK | Dec 13 2023 17:10 utc | 46

As I walk through this wicked world
Searchin' for light in the darkness of insanity I ask myself, "Is all hope lost? Is there only pain and hatred and misery?"

And each time I feel like this inside
There's one thing I wanna know: What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?

Elvis Costello

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 13 2023 17:11 utc | 47

Corruption within the Di$trict of Corruption regime has become so metastasized that one wonders how many rebounding $100 bills Lt. General Aguto will be tasked to fill diplomatic pouches. Its going from hysteria to out and out farce.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 13 2023 17:12 utc | 48

The west can still finance a guerilla war in Ukraine. And there are still many Poles eager to fight and not afraid to die.

Posted by: zorge | Dec 13 2023 17:14 utc | 49

The point behind the declassified numbers for Russian losses is to grease the skids for the next American aid package. "See, we've really got them on the run this time just a few tens of billion more and victory is our ZOMG JUST GIVE US THE MONEY ZOMG!"

Whether those numbers have any basis in fact is irrelevant. They are there to sell a narrative.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Dec 13 2023 17:14 utc | 50

"When one examines the structure of a KORA-based simulation, it becomes clear that the system is completely dependent upon the various inputs which define the simulation as a whole."

Errr, yes ... remember "garbage in equals garbage out?" I mean, ANY predictive computer simulation is completely dependent on the various inputs and parameters that are used to run it. Jesus!

As for proper readiness and modeling: a minimally prudent nation would put its best military thinkers and strategists on the "enemy" side of the war simulation to best capture likely responses and prepare accordingly. Not only did these murderous idiots not do that, they rigged the game to give the answer they wanted.

This of course indicates they had no intention of Ukraine winning this affair and it was all about continuing the $$$ racket for a while longer. Hopefully, the people of Ukraine will one day wise up to the con and the people in Taiwan are paying attention as well.

Posted by: Caliman | Dec 13 2023 17:15 utc | 51

Of course the Americans have a strategy, just that the strategy cannot be said out loud.

That strategy can be summarized as "terrorism and longer-ranged missiles".

Posted by: Feral Finster | Dec 13 2023 17:16 utc | 52

The comments regarding US generals learning from the debacle in Ukraine rather than teaching Ukrainians is spot on. The upper echelons of the US military do know their current condition is unable to take on a real war. What they’re panicked about is the time required to catch up technologically. While the US has significant ISR assets, they don’t have the human assets to wage a major land war, to block the superior Russian missile technology, or to deliver similar damage to a peer adversary, creating a multiyear window in which the ballistic nuclear threat is all that remains for them militarily against a peer.

Yet they will continue to support regional conflicts against weaker countries. Keep an eye on the Venezuela-Guyana situation.

Posted by: Ciaran | Dec 13 2023 17:18 utc | 53

Those that haven't yet will want to take a few minutes to read "Arestovich Goes Off". Some of the comments are good, too.

I expect to see reports of Russian pushes from "quiet" parts of the FEBA that haven't moved for months since Ukies lack reserves and many units were removed from those "quiet: areas to fill gaps elsewhere. But Russia has yet to exert overall pressure along the entire FEBA, particularly from the North. The admission that an Imperial General will now be directing Ukie forces provides direct evidence of the Outlaw US Empire being at war with Russia--IMO, that fact can't be spun any other way.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 13 2023 17:19 utc | 54

DoctorEleven@43
Missed those reading comprehension classes back in junior school, did you?
Please don't engage in tawdry ad hominem comments when you have difficulties with discerning meaning from the written word.

Posted by: wilsonK | Dec 13 2023 17:19 utc | 55

Biden said Ukraine got $200 million new money, but turns out it was not anything new at all - the $200M was the last tranch of the earlier package that was allocated previously.

https://t.me/Anlystintel/14354


In the US, there are congressional hearings for impeachment of Biden. Zelensky is telling the same thing he said in 2022: "if you give us all your money, we will defeat Russia in 2024".

https://t.me/Anlystintel/14347


"The IT infrastructure of the Ukrainian telecom company Kievstar was partially destroyed as a result of a powerful hacker attack, the company’s general director said. The timing of the restoration of communication is still unknown. Problems have been recorded in the work of another Ukrainian mobile operator, Vodafone. For the same reason, Monobank completely blocked online and operational work.

NE.CAXAP"

https://t.me/Anlystintel/14346

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 13 2023 17:19 utc | 56

When they can no longer hide or credibly lie about the territory defeats and losses of personnel they will declare victory, shut it down and memory hole Ukraine. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Posted by: JustTruth | Dec 13 2023 17:20 utc | 57

Newbie @ 1541

Strikes me as strange why the RU army would engage in a head-on assault on the city of Avdeevka itself. Wondering if they will mount a holding offensive on that urban buildup by the Ukes, in order to draw in sufficient of Kiev's reserves to mount a pincer movement, a relatively broad one, to force a Wehrmacht Stalingrad on the defenders. The place is steadily becoming a pocket. Continual assaults on the front, but at a lesser level, could tie-down the reactions of nervous Uke commanders.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 13 2023 17:20 utc | 58

At least 50 or 100 thousand Ukrainian law enforcement officers can be called up and taken to the front today. This idea was floated by the Ukrainian Nazi and ex-commander of the nationalist unit "Aidar" Evgeniy Diky.

The Nazis want the police removed from the streets to the front so that they themselves can perform the function of law enforcement agencies. That is, to seize power in the country into their own hands.

The wild, wild Ukraine...

NE.SUGAR

https://t.me/Anlystintel/14335

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 13 2023 17:25 utc | 59

Oh no, whatever would people do without your thoughts? If you're an apologist for the mass murder Israel is inflicting on Gaza, I suggest you can find plenty of mainstream forums full of people ready to state their moral ambiguity over such 'difficult' issues as the morality of murdering children using jet aircraft.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 13 2023 16:53 utc | 43

please don't post ad hominem when you've completely missed the point.

Posted by: wilsonK | Dec 13 2023 17:28 utc | 60

Ukraine could never win this war. Maybe our exalted 3 star general can bring in the 666 transgender brigade to finally win this. Lol. Distopiun thinking. It really sucks being ruled by idiots.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Dec 13 2023 17:34 utc | 61

please don't post ad hominem when you've completely missed the point.

Posted by: wilsonK | Dec 13 2023 17:28 utc | 60

Kindly articulate a specific point or points about the genocide threads. Which names and what comments almost led to the disaster of us no longer having you around?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 13 2023 17:37 utc | 62

Hasn't the US Army lost every war since 1945? Why should any country listen to their advice?

Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate!

Posted by: lester | Dec 13 2023 17:40 utc | 63

Distopium= distopian + hopium. A dangerous drug.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Dec 13 2023 17:41 utc | 64

@ bevin | Dec 13 2023 16:39 utc | 33

re "The New York Times wrote today that a Putin win in Ukraine would be very bad for European democracy."

Democracy in Europe? That's a good one, given the EU's "state" which governs Europe with its three "presidents."

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 13 2023 17:48 utc | 65

The problem with defensive mode is that defensive lines do not build themselves, they need not only soldiers and equipment manning them, but workers building them in the first place. Ukraine is bled out with working stuff already which is constantly cannibalized for the front. How to get the shovels for 2-3 thousand kilometres of echeloned defense? Industrially constructed bunkers to dig in like this https://t.me/Slavyangrad/78893 could help, but who is producing some ten thousands of those?

Posted by: aquadraht | Dec 13 2023 17:48 utc | 66

The problem with defensive mode is that defensive lines do not build themselves, they need not only soldiers and equipment manning them, but workers building them in the first place. Ukraine is bled out with working stuff already which is constantly cannibalized for the front. How to get the shovels for 2-3 thousand kilometres of echeloned defense? Industrially constructed bunkers to dig in like this https://t.me/Slavyangrad/78893 could help, but who is producing some ten thousands of those?

Posted by: aquadraht | Dec 13 2023 17:48 utc | 67

Posted by: wilsonK | Dec 13 2023 16:49 utc | 38
Amen.

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Dec 13 2023 17:51 utc | 68

Sorry for the double post, maybe clicked once too often (b delete?). That said, looking at tactical maps from both sides, it looks as if ten brigades are still left in the Rabotino fire bag, hammered on from three directions. If that is the defense mode Z means, it is costly.

Posted by: aquadraht | Dec 13 2023 17:54 utc | 69

Strikes me as strange why the RU army would engage in a head-on assault on the city of Avdeevka itself. Wondering if they will mount a holding offensive on that urban buildup by the Ukes, in order to draw in sufficient of Kiev's reserves to mount a pincer movement, a relatively broad one, to force a Wehrmacht Stalingrad on the defenders. The place is steadily becoming a pocket. Continual assaults on the front, but at a lesser level, could tie-down the reactions of nervous Uke commanders.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 13 2023 17:20 utc | 58

Ukraine has been bled, and is essentially out of reserves. What it still has cannot be readily moved because of winter conditions and Russian drone/air superiority. 'Drawing in' more defenders is no longer a significant possibility. I think assaulting Avdeevka is probably a fixing attack to ensure that the defenders cannot retreat while the pocket closes, or before their supplies run out.

Posted by: Honzo | Dec 13 2023 17:59 utc | 70

The repubs are demonstrating resolve and coherence which is uncharacteristic. I believe this points to conviction that the admin is treating Ukraine as personal vendetta beyond what can be explained by national interest. This would suggest that some serious people behind the curtain has given the repubs some spine.

Posted by: jared | Dec 13 2023 18:01 utc | 71

What is Russia's endgame? Answer that first, before speculating further.

Posted by: El Oso de Los Llanos | Dec 13 2023 18:02 utc | 72

Posted by: aquadraht | Dec 13 2023 17:48 utc | 66

Ukraine built its pre-war fortifications in, effectively a peaceful and non-restricted environment with local cement factories operating without hindrance. You need to produce the cement relatively close to where it will be laid. It will also require huge amounts of trucks shuttling it to the place, and trains bringing in the sand, and a working water system, and large amount of electricity to produce.

While Ukraine is not completely collapsed, they're not exactly in the best shape to produce it either. A cement factory with massive traffic in and out relatively close to the front can't go unnoticed. It should also be relatively close to a railway, or rail station. Even building Avdeevka to what it is, was a monumental task in peace-time. They will need to build the new line far enough way to have any sort of chance to be completed.

It's a strategic construction project, which requires strategic bombing, i.e. hitting the cement plants and rail stations, and disrupting the water systems and electric supplies. That will put an end to concrete buildup in short order.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 13 2023 18:04 utc | 73

Most likely source of such a moment of clarity would be a call from the bank regarding insurficient funds.

Posted by: jared | Dec 13 2023 18:06 utc | 74

Russia's endgame? They may as well settle Russians in Ukraine, in areas where the Nazis have died or fled. At the same time throw out Black rock and other WEF supporting entities. To me that cannot be done without including Ukraine into Russia. Events have run away with the original ideas, and I think the Ukrainians will be better off as a Russian state. Those not happy will sit behind the Polish and German borders, mainly. Let that be a problem for the EU and US.

Posted by: g wiltek | Dec 13 2023 18:10 utc | 75

please don't post ad hominem when you've completely missed the point.

Jesus christ. 'Ad hominem' - after you attack my comprehension and use latin when you are apparently unable to comprehend simple english. I didn't miss the point, genius.

I asked if you're an apologist for Israeli mass murder. If so, get fucked. That is all.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 13 2023 18:19 utc | 76

Distopium= distopian + hopium. A dangerous drug.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Dec 13 2023 17:41 utc | 64


And things go better with coke!

Posted by: Ново з | Dec 13 2023 18:21 utc | 77

Distopium= distopian + hopium. A dangerous drug.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Dec 13 2023 17:41 utc | 64


And things go better with coke!

Posted by: Ново з | Dec 13 2023 18:21 utc | 78

Dun Gronian 36:
The Bundeswehr was in Afghanistan for 20 years, the Bundestag repeatedly extended its "Madat", nobody asked about successes, nobody asked about strategy, nobody asked about the goals of the mission - they were there because their US friends demanded that of them. They were in Mali for ten years. The Bundestag has repeatedly extended their “mandate”; no one asked about successes, strategies or the goals of the operation. They were there because their French friends demanded that of them for their economic interests in Mali. A Bundeswehr unit is now stationed in the far east of the Baltics - to protect us. - Xi let Japan know a few months ago that their American friends could always go to their faraway homeland, but they would have to stay close to China. The same applies to Europe and Russia. But if you don't want to accept the obvious, you'll have to learn it.

Posted by: Oliver Krug | Dec 13 2023 18:21 utc | 79

The comments on this thread beg the question what would be the GNP Americans could enjoy if the USA had no MIC.. no military of consequence, no Foreign department or no department of state.
It seems everything Americans used to have, has been transported to some foreign place, for a purpose that delivers private wealth to some multinational corporation or to one or more of its owners.


Posted by: snake | Dec 13 2023 18:32 utc | 80

- For those who have read the stories on the internet about Vietnam, this should sound very familiar. As things started to deteriorate more and more "military advisors" were sent to Vietnam.
- This is only one more confirmation that the US / NATO is involved in the war between Russia and the Ukraine.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Dec 13 2023 18:34 utc | 81

Well I agree that the USA appears out of options, but then what are the potential choices? And to what end? Backing down now would be a disaster for the Biden regime amongst many others. So presumably the "West" will try to prolong the war until at the votes are counted in 2024 (or posted anyway). They can continue to shovel money at the problem - this helps their MIC donors and of course there will be some kick backs too. And this funds the Ukrainian economy and prevents collapse. Are there more weapons to send? Maybe. Will any make a difference - NO. Is a collapse of Ukraine on the cards? Well I think so, and I give it until the spring. But the Politicios who make the decisions think it is stalemate. Or at least the politicians who will take the fall if it all goes wrong think so - briefed by the guys that really know the facts. Is it a good idea for NATO/USA to buy time - yes - if only to gear up their MICs and prepare for what they see as a revanchanist Russia. As has been pointed out more than a few times, the West talks to itself and does not seem to take account of what anyone else (say the Russians and Mad Bad Vlad) might want to do and when. Paraphrasing Liddle-Hart, war fighting is like a surgeon operating on a patient who is neither under anaesthetic nor tied down. There is an inevitability to events now that appears inexorable.

Posted by: marcjf | Dec 13 2023 18:44 utc | 82

Journalists have knowledge a mile wide and an inch deep. They are not interested in determining and reporting facts. They are interested in presenting their proprietor's political line in order to sell page impressions and present eyeballs to advertisers.

AI, as it is called, which is probably how the war gaming works, really just a very elaborate autocorrect. It takes your comment and guesses what token replacements are needed to provide a response.

Believing it has intelligence is like believing your dog understands your feelings.

AI is very good at faking competence. Therefore it will replace the majority of human service workers who are doing the same.

Garbage in - garbage out like their Dynamic stochastic general equilibrium economic models. Only about 3 people on the planet understand them.

AI will be used to reinforce GROUPTHINK and their narratives.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 13 2023 18:52 utc | 83

Hasn't the US Army lost every war since 1945?

Posted by: lester | Dec 13 2023 17:40 utc | 63

Please don't belittle the Great US War Machine, it soundly defeated 42 college radicals AND
a Cuban construction crew in Grenada, and in Panama grabbed all the Dope Dealer funds!

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Dec 13 2023 18:53 utc | 84

IT seems to me that the USA “suddenly deciding to move their brass (read: admit) to the AO is simply more mission creep as well as confirmation that they have been there all along. See Mauriopol and Debaltsevo. Go right ahead, and risk them being taken out faster than an awards ceremony filled with military personelle.

Another thing that is not news but always amazes me is how the MSM frames the “freezing of the conflict” as being something that can simply be done on a whim. After the USA and its NATO EU poodles have spit vitriol all over the globe about wanting to contain, fragment, and destroy Russia what do they think is going to happen? Sorry but this kind of delusional thinking and mass behavior programming is simply going to make the consequences worse as well as get even more people killed.

Posted by: Chevrus | Dec 13 2023 18:57 utc | 85

snake | Dec 13 2023 18:32 utc | 80

Well, the GNP may be lower ... we'd build fewer things to blow up foreigners and foreign lands and need replacing with more expensive things to do the same. But GNP is not everything.

We'd return back to the country before 1945, which was a pretty good place for most (though not all) and hopefully improved by being less racist and sexist. But, yes, a country that minds its own business and makes most of its own things.

But given the entrenched position of MICIMATT in DC, this is not going to happen barring bankruptcy or revolution.

Posted by: Caliman | Dec 13 2023 18:58 utc | 86

snake | Dec 13 2023 18:32 utc | 80
I often wonder what the effect of cutting the Defense budget in half -it would still be the world's largest I think- and using the money for public health would have on life expectancy.
My guess is that properly used the resources could raise the average life span by about five years, within a decade.
You would think that voters would support such a programme.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2023 18:58 utc | 87

https://t.me/milinfolive/112483

The first representative of the DPRK artillery systems, which are routinely designed and produced in the class of “improvised MLRS”, and are also routinely installed on various equipment, is the North Korean light 107-mm MLRS Type-75 (and its variants with a different number of guides).

It has already been mentioned previously (together with the basic performance characteristics), but in the DPRK it is a really massive weapon. They can normally be found not only in a towed version with 12 guides (among KPA artillerymen) or on vehicles (with 12-24 guides), but also as a standard weapon on armored personnel carriers and armored personnel carriers (18-24, respectively).

Those. a significant part of the commanders of lower units and crews of KPA combat vehicles have the standard ability to send the equivalent of a salvo of 12 to 24 105-mm howitzers towards the enemy in just a few seconds from just one vehicle. Even if it's an armored personnel carrier or armored personnel carrier! This adds significant firepower to KPA tactical formations, complementing the usual arsenal of support weapons.

At the same time, for the Type-75 there are high-explosive fragmentation ammunition, and with GGE and incendiary, and even cluster ammunition. The latter are approximately 1.5-2 times more effective against infantry and light vehicles in open areas.

The system itself is extremely simple and cheap (like most types of ammunition for it). And in the same DPRK, thousands of launchers themselves and millions (!) of missiles for them were produced (including the presence of now huge warehouse stocks).

The Type-75 is a combination of versatility, low cost, firepower and simplicity.

Type-75 (registered in Russia) could become a good standard “amplifier” for various equipment operating in the northwestern military zone. Fortunately, the country that produced the system has no problems with the availability of missiles for them.

Photos of a museum model of a launcher with a visual diagram of a cluster munition (taken in Pyongyang) were kindly provided by Vitaly Lebedev. #army MLRS

Posted by: anon2020 | Dec 13 2023 19:03 utc | 88

The repubs are demonstrating resolve and coherence which is uncharacteristic. I believe this points to conviction that the admin is treating Ukraine as personal vendetta beyond what can be explained by national interest. This would suggest that some serious people behind the curtain has given the repubs some spine.

Posted by: jared | Dec 13 2023 18:01 utc | 71

You have been fooled then.

It is very easy to act as if you have suddenly found a heart and some conscious along with some courage and dance along the yellow brick road and return Dorothy back to Kansas. When ToTo has pulled the green curtain back to reveal there is very little the Ukrainians can buy.

So why give them money ?

They'll get enough to pay wages and that's about it.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 13 2023 19:05 utc | 89

"...Lavrov should announce that the sales are illegitimate/ under duress and won't be recognised at the end of the war." scepticalSOB@37
It is certainly worrying that the possibility exists of Russia honouring the contracts made with blackrock etc.
I believe that the Constitution of Ukraine bans the sale of land to foreigners.
I hope that Moscow is not tempted to buy thre friendship of Wall St by letting these fire sale contracts stand.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2023 19:09 utc | 90

marcjf | Dec 13 2023 18:44 utc | 82--

Well I agree that the USA appears out of options, but then what are the potential choices?

The Outlaw US Empire has one choice(s) it's never tried to implement--Peace, withdrawal from Empire and adhering to the UN Charter and its own Constitution. Despite massive public demand at WW2's supposed end, Peace wasn't adopted as the primary policy; Empire was chosen instead and has continued ever since. I don't think such a policy U-Turn is even thought about within Depravity Central given the forces controlling that Swamp.

snake @80 asks an interesting question but needs to qualify its temporality, as in when, as even the Articles of Confederation allowed for ambassadors and the just finished war had imperialist ambitions.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 13 2023 19:16 utc | 91

"I often wonder what the effect of cutting the Defense budget in half -it would still be the world's largest I think- and using the money for public health would have on life expectancy.

My guess is that properly used the resources could raise the average life span by about five years, within a decade.
You would think that voters would support such a programme."

Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2023 18:58 utc | 87

You are thinking in money terms and using numbers only masks the problem. That's a mistake bevin.

Unless, of course you are Margaret Thatcher and think people can moved around the economy like ignots of steel and swap professions at a snap of a finger.

Just tax private healthcare until the pips squeak 300% tax On their earnings.

That will release all the skills and real resources the NHS ever needs. That's what taxes are for. To release the skills and real resources the government needs to provision itself.

Economics is easy when you think in skills and real resources term and you stop talking in money terms ( numbers ) which is the easy part. Numbers just mask the issues and pretend infantrymen can become surgeons on Thursday.

You can't run out of numbers on the liability side of the government balance sheet. But you sure as he'll can run out of the skills and real resources you need.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 13 2023 19:17 utc | 92

Posted by: bevin | Dec 13 2023 18:58 utc | 87

The voters, even in the US, would support such a program, if some party actually offered it. They would support universal healhcare as well, I believe, and many other things, but which party or group with the potential to attain legislative power will propose anything that might disadvantage their donors in the slightest.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Dec 13 2023 19:19 utc | 93

bevin | Dec 13 2023 19:09 utc | 90--

Medvedev on several occasions has said none of those contracts will be honored and none of the debt will be repaid as Ukraine as a legal entity will vanish thus providing payback for those behind the scene who organized this entire affair and have already profited mightily.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 13 2023 19:24 utc | 94

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 13 2023 19:24 utc | 94

A no brainer. How can the West rent seek in Ukraine when the Russians will own it in the end ?

They can't...

Why they are so desperate for a freeze of the conflict and want Ukraine in the EU as quickly as possible. That is now their priority. Their number 1 goal.

What happens after that is how far Putin goes. If Putin's actions matches Medvedev's words.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 13 2023 19:32 utc | 95

And there are still many Poles eager to fight and not afraid to die.

Posted by: zorge | Dec 13 2023 17:14 utc | 49

___

Oh what a tragedy that would be. /s

IIRC there’s been no shortage of sheep-dipped Poles fighting for Bandera already. What’s a few more?

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 13 2023 19:39 utc | 96

Zelinsky has been in Oslo today. Met with primeministers from Danmark, Iceland, Sweeden, Finland and Norway. Standing ovations from the Norwegian Parliment. Met with the Norwegian Royal family.

Got 1 bill Euro. from Denmark.
Weapons worth 350 mill $ from Norway.
and 340 mill from Sweeden.

We (the west) are still in it.

New general from the Us. But where is Zalnutzny?

Posted by: Paul from Norway | Dec 13 2023 19:41 utc | 97

@karlof1 | Dec 13 2023 19:16 utc | 91

re: Despite massive public demand at WW2's supposed end, Peace wasn't adopted as the primary policy; Empire was chosen instead and has continued ever since.

And hand in glove is the one-voice MSM advocating whatever the Pentagon wants.

WAR MADE EASY -- how presidents and pundits keep spinning us to death.

In War Made Easy, nationally syndicated columnist, media critic, and author Norman Solomon cuts through the dense web of spin to probe and scrutinize the key "perception management" techniques that have played huge rolls in the promotion of American wars in recent decades.
. . .and if you're a journalist who doesn't comply, you become an ex-journalist toot suite.

Once in a great while comes a breath of fresh journalist air.
...from the Manila Times, an opinion one would never see published in the West--but we see that it is possible (in Philippines)--
Dec 13 -- Rigoberto Tiglao
Military, Coast Guard turning PH into world's laughingstock

WE are witness in the past several days to the spectacle of national lunacy, to the portrayal of Filipinos as ignorant, infantile fools in deep denial of reality, so much so that we don't see that we have become the world's laughingstock.
Such insanity is based on what historians and analysts will very soon determine as one of the biggest US-manufactured lies spread very effectively starting with the President Aquino 3rd regime: That only the Philippines has legitimate sovereignty and sovereign rights in the Spratlys and that China, especially, Vietnam and Taiwan are intruders.
This is, of course, totally wrong and totally not borne by facts. . .here

Tiglao has promised a Part 2 -- we'll see.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 13 2023 19:47 utc | 98

@b or others

Is KORA "german"?

http://www.alamaliah.ae/kora/

I mean, what kind of knowlege would they be able to implement?
It is 2023, not 1945.

Posted by: 600w | Dec 13 2023 19:50 utc | 99

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 13 2023 17:37 utc | 62

Hehe. That made me smile a bit.

Posted by: Patroklos | Dec 13 2023 19:51 utc | 100

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