Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 18, 2023
The Total Defeat Of Ukraine Is Coming Into Sight

Gideon Rachman, often read columnist at the Financial Times, states the obvious:

Ukraine and its backers need a credible path to victory (archived) – Financial Times

Ukraine goes into the new year short of ammunition, money and diplomatic support. Underlying these critical shortages, there is another important deficiency. The country and its western backers no longer have a convincing theory of victory. Unless they can come up with one, western support for Ukraine will continue to waver.

The fear now must be that while 2023 was the year of the Ukrainian counteroffensive, 2024 will be the year that Russia goes back on the attack. The worst-case scenarios are that, if western aid is cut off, Ukraine could be in serious trouble by the summer.

Without a credible theory of victory, the pressure on Ukraine to negotiate with Russia will mount. The Ukrainians might make a deal — even if it involved making territorial concessions — if they had any confidence that Russia would stick to it. But Ukrainian officials can point to a litany of agreements that Putin has made and then broken. They believe that any cessation in the fighting would simply be used as an opportunity for Russia to rearm.

Rachman fails to list any of the agreements Russia is claimed to have broken. Does he mean the Minsk agreements which the Ukraine rejected to fulfill? Or is it the Russian–Ukrainian Friendship Treaty which Ukraine in 2019 refused to renew?

Unlike the U.S. and its proxies Russia usually sticks to its treaties and promises.

But aside from that false claim Rachman is mostly right. There is currently no 'theory of victory' for Ukraine. The question now is how much it will lose.

Nonetheless he still hopes for some kind of ceasefire:

One alternative to a formal agreement between Russia and Ukraine might be a de facto freezing of the conflict. In this scenario, Ukraine would move into a mainly defensive posture and hold off further Russian advances. The fighting would never stop completely — but it would dwindle.

But Rachman does not explain why Russia would agree to that. Its current president Vladimir Putin certainly does not do so:

There will be peace when we achieve our goals, which you have mentioned. Now let’s return to these goals – they have not changed. I would like to remind you how we formulated them: denazification, demilitarisation, and a neutral status for Ukraine.

Russia has made some progress but those aims have not yet been achieved. It will continue the war until the Ukraine agrees to some kind of negotiations and territorial losses. If it does not do so anytime soon Russia will fight until the Ukraine is completely defeated.

The Ukrainian outlet Strana has analyzed how that might happen (in Russian, machine translation):

Only a few events can bring Ukraine to the brink of complete defeat:

1. Capture of Kiev.

2. Cutting off Ukraine from the sea – the capture of the entire Black Sea coast of the country and the withdrawal of Russian troops to the borders of Romania and Moldova. This will be a catastrophic blow to Ukraine both economically and militarily-strategically.

3. The capture of Dnipro and Zaporizhia – the largest rear, industrial and logistics hubs of the Ukrainian army, which will mean a critical threat to the entire Southern Front of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, as well as most of the eastern one. …

4. A strike from Belarus through the Zhytomyr and Vinnytsia regions with the aim of reaching Transdniestria from the north and maintaining control over this line.

[T]he apocalyptic scenarios described above for Ukraine can only be realized if at least one of the following events occurs (we leave out the options for using nuclear weapons or entering the war on the side of the Russian Federation of large third countries, as they can lead to a world war, where there will be completely different scenarios):

1. A catastrophic drop in discipline and morale in the Ukrainian army, when entire units begin to surrender or leave their positions without orders, exposing large sections of the front.

2. Internal destabilization in Ukraine, acute conflict within the military-political leadership, loss of control by the authorities over the processes in the country, the collapse of the army management.

3. Falling to a critically low level of both military and financial aid from the West.

4. A sharp (much faster than similar actions of Ukraine) increase in Russia's army size, quality and quantity of weapons used, which will radically change the balance of forces at the front.

At the moment, none of these situations are observed.

However, Russia is obviously actively working to make these points a reality.

I disagree with the Strana writer that none of the Ukrainian failings he describes have yet been observed.

These things occur gradually, not in one sudden moment.

Judging from protest videos Ukrainian units put out, the morale at the front is getting steadily worse. In the last weekly summary the Russian Defense Ministry announced that 82 Ukrainian soldiers were captured or had voluntarily given themselves up. That is a new high. AP writes on the "gloomy mood" of Ukrainian soldiers:

Discontent among Ukrainian soldiers — once extremely rare and expressed only in private — is now more common and out in the open.

The conflict between the political and military leadership in Ukraine is again heating up. Yesterday the military announced that it had found spying devices in General Zaluzny's and his aide's offices. No one thinks that Russia has put them there. Today Zaluzny criticized the dismissal, by Zelenski, of officials in the recruitment and mobilization offices which has let to disarray:

Quote: "It is still a little early to evaluate recruiting, and as for mobilisation issues, it is not necessary to strengthen it but to bring it back to those limits, to those frameworks that worked before."

A new draft law includes the mobilization of all women between 25 and 60. Should it become law many women will simply flee from Ukraine to avoid being shipped to the frontline. That in itself would create many more labor and social problems as well as morale issues.

Aid to Ukraine has already fallen off a cliff. New aid from the U.S. or Europe is seriously in doubt. If either fails to agree to new billions the other will too. Additional problems come from the western border were Polish truckers, now joined by farmers, continue to block the border crossings with Ukraine. Shortages in ammunition have already led Ukraine to scaling down its current operations.

Russia has steadily increased the size of its army and the production of new arms. It puts out way more than the West can deliver to Ukraine.

All these trends continue towards their final effect just like Earnest Hemingway's way into bankruptcy: "Gradually, then suddenly."

All of this does not mean that Russia will definitely win the war. Long wars are hard to predict. There are risks everywhere. The U.S. may yet come up with some nastiness that could divert Russia from the war.

Should Russia win and take over most of Ukraine it could negate Ukraine's debt, making the West pay double for its adventure.

That would be a just punishment for the failing neoconservative attempts to dismantle Russia.

Comments

from kyivindependent–
Ukrainian soldiers storming eastern bank of Dnipro fear their mission is hopeless. . . . .“(KAB guided aerial bombs) are the least scary because you understand that they will hit, and you won’t feel anything,” reconnaissance soldier Oleksandr, 25, said. . . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 18 2023 22:32 utc | 101

“This is the winter of our discontent”
I see that as being the sentiment for conscripted Ukrainian troops this winter, freezing in trenches over their holidays, and away from family, friends, and homes, while the princes in Kiev lounge in comfort, amidst their stolen wealth.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Dec 18 2023 22:53 utc | 102

I think we should monitor Mrs Z… if she suddenly decides say to take children to Paris for a long Disney holiday… rents an apartment ..large amount of luggage are on the move…or any excuse to travel …something is about to happen…….

Posted by: Jo | Dec 18 2023 22:55 utc | 103

karlof1 | Dec 18 2023 20:46 utc | 77
Thanks for the link Karl. Early on in the SMO Lavrov said something about the range of western weapons and Russia taking more territories according to the range of weapons sent to Kiev. Now for the first time Putin talks about Odessa. It would be interesting to see what maps look like once this is all done and dusted. With western talk of F16’s and expanded war, I assume there is still more to come. At the moment, I think Poland might resist becoming next sacrificial lamb but as Tusk has been installed it is difficult to know. Baltic though seem rabid enough to launch war against Russia by having F16’s take off from their airfields.
The Americans et al will of course know the F16’s have no chance but seems seems to be about expanding the war to draw in European Nato. Make Russia pay a price as the Americans say. UK has created a number of “security” agreements with eastern European ex soviet hate Russia states so I assume UK will take the lead (from behind) in that phase of the war if it occurs.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 18 2023 22:59 utc | 104

Posted by: pyrrhus | Dec 18 2023 21:32 utc | 93
…The mass delusion in the West continues..when has any nation ever defeated Russia in a land war in EurAsia?
U$NATO 1000% expected to defeat Russia in 4-6weeks employing The Sanctions From Hell™️.
They never anticipated a land war against Russia in [Russia]/ = {eastern Ukraine}.
They didn’t plan or prep for the war Russia is forcing them to fight.
Russia always intended to fight the war it always fights, whether it’s Sweden (1700s) France (1800s) Germany (1900s) or U$NATO (2000s).

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 18 2023 23:00 utc | 105

Feral Finster | Dec 18 2023 21:28 utc | 90–
Gruff is correct. Hypothermia can very rapidly disable even the fittest of people, and that river water is perhaps 1-2C at best now. In our 50F ocean, one minute is about all you have, and that’s with no combat load.
Paul Damascene | Dec 18 2023 21:00 utc | 84–
Thanks for your reply. In my commentary, I mention the close resemblance of the Proposals with Xi’s Global Security Initiative. They are also the basis for Russia’s Persian Gulf Security Plan and also for Iran’s HOPE for the region that was introduced at the 2019 UNGA. And of course, all are based on the UN Charter.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 18 2023 23:04 utc | 106

“Should Russia win and take over most of Ukraine it could negate Ukraine’s debt, making the West pay double for its adventure.”
I would LOVE to see that.

Posted by: Patroklos | Dec 18 2023 23:38 utc | 107

The Ukrainian army is going to break, and the war will end shortly thereafter. Russia will impose whatever political solution it wants, and nobody in the rest of the world can change it in any way by any means. As to when the Ukrainian army is going to break, well, I’m sure the senior staff officers of the Russian Army can make a pretty good prediction. I doubt anyone else can, least of all anyone from the West’s chattering classes.
But the question that no one is asking is if Putin/Russia is playing a game with the US and its upcoming election cycle by trying to time the Ukrainian collapse with the US election. There has been total silence from the US chattering class about how the war in Ukraine is going to affect the election, and also affect the US political class and processes. Someone in the US academy must have done some thinking on the issue, right? Umm, probably not.
Myself I haven’t a clue how a collapsed Ukraine/Ukraine war in, say, September 2024 will play in the election. This is not something that the US political system has ever really had to face. (Possible exception of the NVA offensive in ’72, but I don’t think that anyone much in US politics at the time realized how close things were to blowing up with ARVN at the time. Neil Sheehan’s superb book, A Bright Shining Lie, is the best, and one of the very few books on the Vietnam War, in explaining how if the NVA had been just a little bit better generalled, they’d have won the war in ’72.)
I am certain that if Putin has any financial sense, he will make a voiding of all of Ukraine’s foreign debt part of the peace settlement. That will be droll.

Posted by: Daniel N. White | Dec 18 2023 23:40 utc | 108

– What about the nuclear treaties for tactical and strategic nuclear weapons with Russia that the US refused to renew and/or withdrew from in 2004 (?, 2005 ?) and 2018 (??) ?
Did Rachman mention that in his column ?

Posted by: Mr. Market | Dec 18 2023 23:42 utc | 109

Peter AU1 | Dec 18 2023 22:59 utc | 103–
Thanks for your reply. NATO’s weapons and their range is linked to Russia’s security issues, not Ukraine specifically, although they are a concern there too. Most importantly are the dual use missile systems that Russia has said it will assume are armed with nukes in case they’re launched against Russia, which will then retaliate in kind. As with 1962, the solution is for NATO to remove those missiles and launchers. The problem attaining Indivisible Security IMO comes from the NATO side since the assumption is Russia wants to attack bordering nations to expand its space–yes, it’s projection. Russia signed onto all the OSCE Treaties that included the Indivisible Security concept, and no nation complained at the times it did so. Until NATO nations cease their projection, no security treaty will be attained. IMO, it will take a new generation of Europeans freed from the EU and Outlaw US Empire’s propaganda and thus able to make their own decisions, and that might take the rest of the century to occur.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 18 2023 23:46 utc | 110

Posted by: Daniel N. White | Dec 18 2023 23:40 utc | 107
One of the major reasons why Ukraine seemingly is not collapsing is the fact that it is a military dictatorship with 110 % censorship level.
No one dares to say anything, and mobilizations go unhindered. It is also a large concentration camp where one is unable to leave.
However little US pays, it seems they are still paying the minimums to keep the state budget more or less afloat. The west has already imposed a solution to reduce the budget burden by simply selling wounded back to the front to die.
All very cynical, but this kind of system, is not easy to collapse, because it doesn’t rely on any sort of public opinion input, nor capability of the public to influence what is going on.
This could be filed under one of the more horrible mass murders in history.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 18 2023 23:49 utc | 111

“Should Russia win and take over most of Ukraine it could negate Ukraine’s debt, making the West pay double for its adventure.”
I would LOVE to see that.
Posted by: Patroklos | Dec 18 2023 23:38 utc | 106
Or, the Russians could take all of Ukraine except Lvov, and let them pay the debts.
I imagine that to the extent that there’s a Ukrainian ‘government’ that negotiates the process of capitulation, one of the first steps will be for that government to repudiate its debts. When that government is dissolved, the west won’t have anyone to sue.

Posted by: Honzo | Dec 19 2023 0:04 utc | 112

Daniel N. White | Dec 18 2023 23:40 utc | 107–
Until 7 October, the assumption within US political media was Ukraine needed to be frozen and Palestine needed to be quiet for Biden’s chances. Instead, the Outlaw US Empire is now fighting on four fronts simultaneously–Ukraine, Palestine, Syraq, and now the Red Sea/Yemen. At one point it was said Biden wanted/needed to be seen as a War President to get reelected, but public opinion polls say the opposite about wanting war in the first place, and certainly not four. Trump’s been capitalizing on all that, but as before he’s all hat and no cattle–“I’ll drain the Swamp” he vowed, then the first place he visited upon inauguration was CIA’s HQ to make amends. I see Trump as a giant AI program subject to massive amounts of GIGO. As discussed here since 2015, Trump’s part of the Swamp and the FIRE sector that’s emaciating the nation.
Ideally, Biden will be impeached forcing the Ds to nominate Newsom, Hunter imprisoned and Trump will be the R candidate, although the Rs could keep him off the ballot as the court’s have said neither party must do what voters vote for. But the picture will surely darken as we approach the meaningless primaries and conventions.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 19 2023 0:08 utc | 113

Quote “Rachman fails to list any of the agreements Russia is claimed to have broken. Does he mean the Minsk agreements which the Ukraine rejected to fulfill?”
When will the Russians and others learn that quoting British junk paper defeats Russian case S it gives intended coverage to British propaganda and lies?
England is the enemy which must be destroyed soon and you ate giving platform. To British rag?

Posted by: Sa. | Dec 19 2023 0:08 utc | 114

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 18 2023 20:52 utc | 81
If they’ve been trained and equipped by the RM’s not necessarily, given their Cold War NATO role in reinforcing Norway: immersion suits, quick release harnesses and flotation devices probably mean going overboard is unpleasant but rarely fatal. The main trouble is the attrition that contested river crossings cause and the loss of SRB’s whose construction makes them highly vulnerable to explosives.
Posted by: unimperator | Dec 18 2023 22:20 utc | 97
They certainly are gaining the most airtime, but I’d wager the mortar and mine are still highly effective. Although drones can drop a few light explosive rounds, a trained mortar battery can have anywhere up to 120 bombs in the air in one minute. Drones, fit this type of low-density, high intensity, low casualty tolerance warfare well, but they are not so much game changers as weapons, where they are transformative is in allowing sub-units access to ISR capabilities usually reserved for far larger formations. This allows for far more effective use of a units organic fire support, (mortars, SFMG’s and AGL’s) as their longer ranges can be fully utilised by drone using fire controllers.

Posted by: Milites | Dec 19 2023 0:10 utc | 115

If Strana is serious about the fall of Kiev being a war ending defeat for the Ukranazis, it proves again what a colossal blunder it was fur Putin to have trusted the negotiations enough to withdraw troops from its outskirts last year.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 18 2023 17:18 utc | 7
There weren’t enough troops there to take Kiev. It was designed as a feint for negotiations from the beginning.
Now, you could argue the flaw was in not taking Ukraine all at once in March 2022. But then, Russia would have had to commit 3 or 4 million troops to the invasion and occupation of Ukraine to prevent or tamp down insurgency. This scenario would have also made war with NATO more likely than it is currently.
In war, there are no easy solutions. Putin chose what he thought was the least bad alternative- trying to minimize Russian casualties and keeping the US and its allies from entering the conflict more directly. It didn’t work out the way he had hoped, but it was not a fatal mistake.

Posted by: James M. | Dec 19 2023 0:12 utc | 116

karlof1 | Dec 19 2023 0:08 utc | 112
The US election coming up looks to be the main geopolitical event on the foreseeable horizon. It remains to be seen if the US deep state can hold things together at and past that point.And apart from the election itself, is the many fingers now required to plug the holes in the US economical dyke. At some point, something has to give way.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 19 2023 0:18 utc | 117

But Kagans are busy with pencils and chalk discussing how Russia will be divided into small pieces. Kaganates of Evenkia, of Permia, of Kalmykia etc. (Once I seen a rather small Khazaria on one of those maps.)
Posted by: Piotr Berman | Dec 18 2023 20:55 utc | 83
Donald Kagan was a very good historian of ancient Greece and the Peloponnesian war. He also actually served in the US military. He had some very militaristic ideas unfortunately, which his non-serving spawn have run with.
The apple fell far from the tree intellectually with his two sons and their harpy wives – Kimberly wo runs the laughable ISW, and Nuland who runs the State Department.

Posted by: James M. | Dec 19 2023 0:21 utc | 118

Oh how the rationalizing is getting thick.
I see others in the thread that I’m in agreement with, this winter is going to be an order of magnitude harder on Ukraine – front and rear – than last winter. And all the while the momentum along the front line for Russia will grow. It can afford to be cautious so long as it keeps the pressure on. By spring the map will look different, even if the amount of territory russia takes isn’t huge it will be territory that shapes the operational context. And by spring Ukraine, even if funding comes through, will be in a state of near collapse on all levels.

Posted by: Lex | Dec 19 2023 0:23 utc | 119

Has Zelensky recently taken to wearing a wig? There appears to be a colour mismatch in recent photos, could be the lighting I suppose.

Posted by: wink | Dec 19 2023 0:32 utc | 120

I got nothing to add. Just chewing popcorn.
Thanks b for the best Xmas round Robin!

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 19 2023 0:34 utc | 121

wink | Dec 19 2023 0:32 utc | 118
Reality has most likely intruded on his coke addled mind.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 19 2023 0:34 utc | 122

Mr. Market | Dec 18 2023 23:42 utc | 108
…treaties the U$ has reneged on, broken or failed to renew.
My fav is Open Skies.
For decades, the U$ and Russia agreed to fly over each other’s military installations and sensitive areas. All well and good until Russia built a brand-new super surveillance aircraft.
Trump/ U$… yeah, nah. We’re not allowing that. “No more Open Skies for you”.
Oh, but, we still want NATO to have Open Skies access.
Russia: “lol, no”.

Posted by: Melaleuca | Dec 19 2023 0:41 utc | 123

Here’s my question.
Will the conscription of women into the Ukraine army mean that the slaughter ends, or will it make no difference to Mr Putin?
Here is my statement.
This is a genocide no matter how you look at it.
Russia supposedly has pinpoint unstoppable missiles.
So take out the fkn Jews who have organised it and you can stop killing innocent people.
Full fkn stop.

Posted by: Little Black Duck | Dec 19 2023 0:46 utc | 124

Wait ! What?
Ursula’s grandma is in a photo with Hitler???
‘ Manooch Kargar on X: amazing
Got news for you NOT THAT MANY UKRAINIAN STANDING ANY MORE. You and your Washington zionists masters killed over 600,000 of them. They are dead. You are standing by yourself I take it and here , your grandmother with your hero hitler.
https://twitter.com/ma000111/status/1736770435591639481?t=P2gt-Y1F99umIRdE1GFWcA&s=19‘
Oh dear ,oh dear 😆

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 19 2023 1:06 utc | 125

Perfect time to pulverize Kyiv and Lviv to achieve a political outcome. Ukies go to polls in a few months. War defeat is on their face. They are looking to end the war, bring back 10 million displaced Ukies home, rebuild their devastated country, have a sense of hope and bring back those good old days of border peace.
Their will to fight this war is at all time low. Hit it home with a pulverizing attack on Kyiv and Lviv.

Posted by: Jason | Dec 19 2023 1:08 utc | 126

Posted by: Jmaas | Dec 18 2023 18:54 utc | 36
—————————————————————
The Ukrainian forces are not just running out of steam, they are running out infantry, bullets, and heavy Artillery as well. The trolling numbnuts know this, yet they continue to lie: They have to be paid well to embarrass themselves this way.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 19 2023 1:08 utc | 127

“But Ukrainian officials can point to a litany of agreements that Putin has made and then broken.”
Okay, so name a few.

Posted by: Christian J Chuba | Dec 19 2023 1:16 utc | 128

Milites @113: “If they’ve been trained and equipped…”
Sure, advanced training, many thousands of dollars of specialized equipment, and then maybe some of them could survive a swim in the Dnieper in winter.
The Ukrainians don’t have that.
You’ve seen the videos. These are guys fresh off the street who are lucky if they’ve been shown how to clear a jam in their assault rifles. I’ve not seen any of them even with flotation devices, much less immersion suits. The ones making it to shore hop off the little boats in regular combat gear. They are crossing in dinghies. If anything happens they don’t have time to get out of their gear and throw on immersion suits. In seconds they are laying on the riverbed with ten meters of water over them, tugging at the fasteners on their tactical vest that they can’t even feel anymore with their frozen fingers. A couple seconds later they are dead.
If they were all Rambos and James Bonds, and this were Hollywood, then they’d be fine and sipping martinis and beers in the next scene. In the real world they are very dead.
I shudder in horror at what these poor fools are going through.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 19 2023 1:17 utc | 129

Yes; Russians used their C Team to fight Ukies with A Team only making cameo appearances.
Most fighting is done by convicts, foreign fighters, ethnic Russians from Ukraine itself and according to some others, ethnic Ukies (anti-comedian Ukies but I don’t think surrendered Ukies fought for Russia).
If the comedian remains in power after April 2024 even more Ukies will revolt against the clown using military means. Russians will support the next Reverse Maidan regime change action.

Posted by: Jason | Dec 19 2023 1:17 utc | 130

to Jmaas | Dec 18 2023 18:54 utc | 36
Russia had to switch to a war of attrition once NATO through all its support behind Ukraine.
The native Ukrainian arsenal was burned up after the first 6 mos. Now Russia has to finish burning up as much NATO stockpiles as they are willing to send.
To All, regarding ‘Ukrainians theory of victory’, if Russia really lost 300k troops (they didn’t) then it would be easy. Victory would be when Russia ran out of troops and their public no longer was willing to fight. This is how both the U.S. and USSR lost in Afghanistan. To say that Ukraine has no tangible path to victory is to admit that our numbers on this war are fraudulent.

Posted by: Christian J Chuba | Dec 19 2023 1:21 utc | 131

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 19 2023 0:08 utc | 112
Trump’s been capitalizing on all that, but as before he’s all hat and no cattle–“I’ll drain the Swamp” he vowed, then the first place he visited upon inauguration was CIA’s HQ to make amends. I see Trump as a giant AI program subject to massive amounts of GIGO. As discussed here since 2015, Trump’s part of the Swamp and the FIRE sector that’s emaciating the nation.

Interesting. So then do you think that all the Court cases etc. are essentially more ‘Reality TV Republic’ episodes? And if so, does that mean that Reality TV Star President Trump doesn’t really have enemies within the US elites because all that is theatre too? And if so, are Russia and China in on the script-writing backstage? Or is that conflict real but anything within the US not?
I have got to the point where can no longer determine what is real, what not and have more or less given up trying to figure….

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 19 2023 1:22 utc | 132

Re: Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 18 2023 19:07 utc | 41

Winter has just begun its attack on those without proper preparation and reliable infrastructure, which is Ukraine as a whole and its frontline troops to the nth degree. I’ve written about the consequences of not rotating troops and those consequences go exponential in Winter. At Simplicius’s newest sitrep, I commented that Russia will likely wait until Winter has gone deeper, end of January, before it makes its big push through the thinned lines of frozen Ukie troops. Note that particular advantage–warmed and rested troops–isn’t ever mentioned. Russian Winter combat garb looks quite warm and is mostly white, while Ukies have the same stuff they’ve been wearing all Summer and Fall. And of course, when you’re older the joints all get stiffer when it gets colder, and it’s harder to get warm. Ever try pulling a trigger when your hands are numb? Ukie sources are talking about casualties from frostbite and amputations caused by it.

Care for a wager Karl?
There will be NO BIG RUSSIAN ASSAULT through the Ukie lines in January – or February – as you suggest.
This simply won’t happen.
You are projecting your own feelings and beliefs here onto the Russians.
So I ask again, care for a friendly wager on this matter of timing you have raised?

Posted by: Julian | Dec 19 2023 1:29 utc | 133

“Collapse occurs so slowly you don’t notice it and then so suddenly you can’t stop it”.

Posted by: Jim | Dec 19 2023 1:30 utc | 134

I wonder why this article is getting attention. It gets old pointing out that these people are obsequious morons – they can be well ashamed of their lifes work.
Anyway its kind of humorous the the implcation of headline – the take home read between the lines – is that Ukraine does not have a credible path to victory.
But then Ratburn does not have a credible path to the loo.

Posted by: jared | Dec 19 2023 1:31 utc | 135

@ Julian | Dec 19 2023 1:29 utc | 130
Myself, I imagine Russia plans to drag this out as long as possible.
Which would give you more time and opportunity to yammer, but I doubt this will bother Russia much … i.e., at all.

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 19 2023 1:37 utc | 136

I get a bad feeling that the west cannot back down.
Seems a blood-letting as if to treat a fever.
At some point, they are going to make Russia angry – I suppose that is what they want, as long as they can deal with it from a great distance. They dont want peace, they want a pause to reload.
Only way to cure this possesion is a good punch in the nose.
Biden will double-down if re-elected, Trump will triple down in effort to try to ingratiate himself with the club – he’s very needy.

Posted by: jared | Dec 19 2023 1:43 utc | 137

” It is useless to explain anything to a troll.
Posted by: Naive | Dec 18 2023 19:58 utc | 54
—————————————————————-
How original, are you going to insult my Mom next ?
Posted by: Moonie | Dec 18 2023 20:26 utc | 65
—————————————————————–
Is your mom a troll too?

Posted by: Ed | Dec 19 2023 1:46 utc | 138

Russia has opportunity in the Middle East.

Posted by: jared | Dec 19 2023 1:48 utc | 139

Julian | Dec 19 2023 1:29 utc | 130–
Thanks for your reply. Sorry, but I ceased wagering and taking gambles many years ago and now just make educated guesses such as the one you cited.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 19 2023 1:52 utc | 140

Julian | Dec 19 2023 1:29 utc | 130–
Thanks for your reply. Sorry, but I ceased wagering and taking gambles many years ago and now just make educated guesses such as the one you cited.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 19 2023 1:52 utc | 137
It’s not an unreasonable guess. Especially if there is a collapse by the UAF on the front lines. Russia would certainly take advantage of any power vacuum that develops. Julian is just projecting his own insecurities here.

Posted by: James M. | Dec 19 2023 1:59 utc | 141

@ Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 19 2023 1:22 utc | 129
I have the feeling that the state is not worried about Trump.
Firstly, he has proven to be an idiot and a hot mess.
Secondly he cannot communicate.
Thirdly, he has no power base within the government.
I had hoped that there was more to him than was apparent, but there is less.
He is US Zelensky.

Posted by: jared | Dec 19 2023 2:01 utc | 142

In war, there are no easy solutions. Putin chose what he thought was the least bad alternative- trying to minimize Russian casualties and keeping the US and its allies from entering the conflict more directly. It didn’t work out the way he had hoped, but it was not a fatal mistake.
Posted by: James M. | Dec 19 2023 0:12 utc | 114
I’d suggesy that it worked out exactly as Putin et al expected and planned, which probably means it worked out as they hoped, and that it was not a mistake at all. If we look at the period since Putin came to power, he has been preparing for this kind of war all along. His understanding of US/NATO intentions has been clear sighted and correct. He began from a position of objective weakness, so he engaged in a lot of maskirovka and tried to avoid early conflict. At the same time though, he made a series of public pronouncement directly to western leaders outlining precisely what Russia required for lasting peace- he was simply ignored.
Then we look at Minsk, Odessa, the murder campaign against the Donbass and Odessa, the little green men in Crimea- what leads us to believe that Putin could possibly believe that the west would make and keep an agreement that would insure Russia’s survival? The entire conduct of the SMO has to be viewed in this light.
The initial drive on Kiev could in theory have produced a negotiated settlement, which, once Russian troops were gone any objective observer would predict would be immediately discarded by the west and preparations for another war begun. Putin knew very well, though, that the west would not be that smart, that they believed they were dragging him into a conflict that would destroy him and they wouldn’t let it end before that happened. So it was cheap and easy to offer peace on a minimal basis, because the agreement would never be signed off on by DC. This has been a huge victory in the information war for Russia in most of the world. With that accomplished, Russia pulled back and tar-babied Ukraine, destroying three armies with minimal loss, and are now grinding down what remains as they move slowly forward. In the meantime, the west’s sanctions war has backfired, de-industrializing Germany and crippling EU economies, sowing dissension in the EU and NATO, draining arms and munitions from western stockpiles, making power projection difficult, and the world is de-dollarizing at flank speed. None of this would have happened if Russia had taken Kiev in March 22. Instead, Russia would be entangled in a Minsk 3 semi-frozen permanent war, the world would still believe in US economic power and military superiority, and progress in the axis of resistance would grind on as slowly as before, or slower.
You may choose to believe that this is all a consequence of bad judgment, but it seems to me that Russian ability to predict the behavior of US/NATO/EU has been exquisite, and their long-term planning elegant and powerful.

Posted by: Honzo | Dec 19 2023 2:04 utc | 143

The demeanor of the Ukraine leaders is that they realise they have been used and they are not happy – could get interesting.

Posted by: jared | Dec 19 2023 2:07 utc | 144

Rather than Ukraine is henceforth The UsedCondom.

Posted by: jared | Dec 19 2023 2:10 utc | 145

There weren’t enough troops there to take Kiev. It was designed as a feint for negotiations from the beginning.
Now, you could argue the flaw was in not taking Ukraine all at once in March 2022. But then, Russia would have had to commit 3 or 4 million troops to the invasion and occupation of Ukraine to prevent or tamp down insurgency. This scenario would have also made war with NATO more likely than it is currently.
Posted by: James M. | Dec 19 2023 0:12 utc | 114
——————————————————————–
Thank you, James M, for your comment: “There weren’t enough troops there to take Kiev. It was designed as a feint for negotiations from the beginning.”
I have made this same comment until I am blue in the face, but the trolls keep on keeping on. I was just trying to decide if I was going to do it again, but my heart just wasn’t in it, and then I read your comment.
The feint had two objectives: One was to get Zelensky to the negotiation table and avoid a costly and bloody war, and the other was to draw the AFU forces towards Kiev while Russian forces crossed the borders into Lugansk and Donetsk. There was no way the Putin, and his advisors, could know the outcome of the negotiations with Zelensky in Turkey ☪, but the faint was not a total loss since much of the Donbass was secured as a result of the feint in the Kiev direction.
Also, had Russia committed 3 or 4 million troops (which it did not have ready, trained, and available for combat) to the invasion and occupation of Ukraine in March of 2022, it was quite likely that a bull-headed Biden, and at least some of his NATO lackies, would enter the conflict. At the time, Russia was not prepared to deal with that kind of situation.
Today, is a different world, Russia has over a million troops trained, or being trained, and many are receiving combat experience OJT. Russia also has a military industrial complex as good as any in the world, and Biden and his neo-cons are crawfishing away from the Ukraine conflict as quickly as possible without waving a white flag.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 19 2023 2:42 utc | 146

Posted by: Honzo | Dec 19 2023 2:04 utc | 140
————————————————————-
Again Honzo, another good comment. See my comment at #143. It could well apply to your comment as well.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 19 2023 2:47 utc | 147

Rachmann, Friedland, Cohen, Harding, Rifkind, the UK (supposedly “serious” supposedly “quality”) media hahahahaha lol, produces a seemingly endless number of these third rate presstitute media hacks.
All of them so smug, superior and self satisfied, all of them so arrogant, venal and corrupt, all of them so incredibly ignorant and deluded, all of them tame pet mouthpieces of their spook handlers. All of them wasting their whole lives scribbling useless garbage for the vested interests who own them.
Even put all together, they are not worth a w**k.

Posted by: anon | Dec 19 2023 2:48 utc | 148

Fresh poll smoke!

During November 29-December 9, 2023, the Kiev International Institute of Sociology (KIIS) conducted its own all-Ukrainian public opinion poll “Omnibus”. Based on a random sample of mobile phone numbers (with random generation of phone numbers and subsequent statistical weighting), 1,031 LOL! respondents living in all regions of Ukraine (except the Autonomous Republic of Crimea) were interviewed. The survey was conducted with adults (aged 18 years and older) citizens of Ukraine who at the time of the survey lived on the territory of Ukraine (within the limits controlled by the Ukrainian authorities until February 24, 2022). The sample did not include residents of territories that were temporarily not controlled by the Ukrainian authorities before February 24, 2022 (the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, the city of Sevastopol, certain areas of Donetsk and Luhansk regions), and the survey was not conducted with citizens abroad.
[…]
Compared to December 2022, criticism of the authorities is growing. In particular, the share of those who trust the Verkhovna Rada has decreased from 35% to 15%, while the share of those who do not trust it has increased from 34% to 61%. Confidence in the government decreased from 52% to 26%, and distrust-increased from 19% to 44%. Although there is also a downward trend in the case of the President, he retains overwhelming confidence among the Ukrainian public. So, now 62% trust the President, and 18% do not trust him.
[…]

Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 19 2023 2:51 utc | 149

The intelligent discussion was by Budanov when he said (in essence) that when you trap unfit people off the street and train them hastily and send them to the front, it not worth shit. Their best fighter are gone, to great extent.
It seems they are not amused and not inclined to repeat. I dont see that the leadership has any good options.

Posted by: jared | Dec 19 2023 2:53 utc | 150

Some videos for today.
First person footage showing Russian forces clearing an enemy fortified position on the edge of liberated Marinka (near Donetsk) before the Russian flag was raised on December 10th:
https://rutube.ru/video/1b658c4584f7ebc6c6784b72e7bccf8f/
Russian drones destroy enemy armored vehicles near Artemovsk:
https://rutube.ru/video/35a1d755303f309803a9bf1e68adffe2/
Russian helicopters in action near Kupyansk:
https://rutube.ru/video/35bc3ad08b602f4ede08ffbb0f622e0f/
Russian Uragan MLRS fires on enemy position near Krasny Liman:
https://rutube.ru/video/e6afcd7a3873bfc5e7e6307977a22540/

Posted by: Nate | Dec 19 2023 3:02 utc | 151

re:#134 “They dont want peace, they want a pause to reload.”

Indeed, lots of pretty optimistic and premature talk going on (don’t just mean here). Be nice if some of it came to pass, not holding my breath, but we’ll see.

Posted by: knighthawk | Dec 19 2023 3:06 utc | 152

The news from Poland may have some importance in relation to events in Ukraine. In the new government (of Mr. Tusk) – the foreign minister is Radoslaw Sikorski (no relation to General Sikorski, who was killed in plane crash off Gibraltar, possibly a sabotage by Soviets, in 1943). Radoslaw Sikorski is husband of Anne Applebaum. He famously thanked US in a tweet for destruction of Nordstream pipelines. Now he is talking about helping Ukraine – and the action of Polish truckers who blocked several transit points on the border to Ukraine was terminated by police.
More details are in the piece by Redacted, in the report by the Warsaw based reporter, Mike Krupa. He says that there are people in the elite there, who want to establish some kind of ‘Polish/Ukraine’ entity. Sorry, but I am unable to provide the link to that segment on Redacted. (Maybe some barflies can do it for me?).
The new government may have some ideas how to ‘contain’ Russia, if they join with dying Ukraine. Sikorski and his wife are probably in contact with neocons in DC and may be spinning more yarn, how to get out of this bad situation. One such idea, in my “crystal ball” would be to offer Israelis to move en masse back to the Ukraine, mainly the Western Ukraine, where many of their ancestors came from. Russia could perhaps be a midwife for the new birth of a nation there? It would fit into Russia’s other problems, and would create headaches for Polish nation. (But Sikorski and co. would not care less.) And Putin would create a ‘win-win’ situation for Russia and for Israelis, who would be able to help make the steppes and marshes bloom again (irony alert). (Crimea would be not part of that idea)

Posted by: fanto | Dec 19 2023 3:12 utc | 153

Some people find the total lack of Russian concern over the seizure of $300 billion of its assets puzzling (it may actually be far less than that, but never mind.)
But it is quite easy to understand.
Russia is gradually helping itself to at least double that figure of western assets in Russia.
BP had to write off an energy investment of $25 billion in Sakhalin. This was given to an Indian company.
A Russian entrepreneur took over Macdonalds for peanuts.
Renault handed over a huge car plant for a nominal one rouble. This is now turning out Chinese models.
Heineken was bought out for a nominal one euro.
There are many other examples, adding up to a hell of a lot more than $300 billion.
So why complain when you’re laughing all the way to the bank?
If Brussels and Washington want to shoot themselves in the foot, why stop them?

Posted by: anon | Dec 19 2023 3:14 utc | 154

@65 it is widely accepted that trolls multiply by fission.
no mom.
****
Parthenogenesis.
No Dad

Posted by: General Factotum | Dec 19 2023 3:26 utc | 155

Larry Johnson on the judges show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCxdRZ6wGYI
…….
Julian | Dec 19 2023 1:29 utc | 130
You have always bordered on the troll category. Projection you say… or perhaps simply on your part.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 19 2023 3:27 utc | 156

https://sputnikglobe.com/20231219/over-70-of-ukrainians-ready-to-renounce-citizenship-to-avoid-military-service—poll-1115673200.html
Hmmm…. I’m starting to wonder about how valid other polls about Ukr. support actually are.

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 19 2023 3:29 utc | 157

The collapse of Ukraine and NATO will be hundred times more traumatic than 9/11 for the USA and the western bloc.
If it happens before the USA election it will be the end of the Democratic party for decades.

Posted by: Virgile | Dec 19 2023 3:48 utc | 158

Thank you, James M, for your comment: “There weren’t enough troops there to take Kiev. It was designed as a feint for negotiations from the beginning.”
I have made this same comment until I am blue in the face, but the trolls keep on keeping on. I was just trying to decide if I was going to do it again, but my heart just wasn’t in it, and then I read your comment.
Posted by: Ed | Dec 19 2023 2:42 utc | 143

This is amazing.
The people unhappy with the Kremlin’s (in)competence and true loyalties complain bitterly about things like going in with insufficient forces when anyone with half a brain knew that if you go in, you have to go in hard and take over the whole country quickly, or you will be stuck in quagmire (BTW, this is why I only realized they indeed were going to invade a few days before it started — there just was no sign that sufficient forces had been gathered for a proper operation).
Then the anti-concern trolls come with “you are a concern troll, they didn’t go in with enough troops to take Kiev, so what you are complaining about?”.
Yes, that is the level of discourse here currently…

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Dec 19 2023 3:50 utc | 159

Posted by: jared | Dec 19 2023 2:01 utc | 139
@ Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 19 2023 1:22 utc | 129
I have the feeling that the state is not worried about Trump.
Firstly, he has proven to be an idiot and a hot mess.
Secondly he cannot communicate.
Thirdly, he has no power base within the government.
I had hoped that there was more to him than was apparent, but there is less.
He is US Zelensky.

Fair points, though Z was really a creation of a Jewish oligarch and the entire post-Maidan regime a co-production with neocon tribal cousins in DC. I think Trump’s support on the leadership/elite level is less easy to discern, though links to the Chabad networks have popped up here and there, as they have around Putin.
Also, Trump enjoys widespread support because he embodies a return to a national reality they see receding in the rear view mirror. He didn’t create that gestalt which is, I believe, a real thing (at least as real as anything gets in Clown World). That he was no match for the Deep State is clearly the case, but I can’t tell the degree to which the endless persecution and demonization is kayfabe.
The Ukraine campaign is largely dependent upon and thus also defined by the US. If the US is largely performance then quite possibly the entire SMO is scripted too. I don’t mean that men aren’t dying in the trenches, but that the strategic context as described – Russia vs Empire vs multipolarism etc. – is maybe global kayfabe as well.
The article linked below intimates that much of what is discussed regards ‘Jews’ is, similarly, quite wrong and partly because of deliberate artifice. (They are largely a construct serving as part front and part fall guy.) I didn’t get through it all yet – it’s dense – but the author is a serious revisionist who has studied the subject far more than most.
Wheels within wheels, layers and levels..
https://tinyurl.com/ypnxvczk
(main link seemingly blocked, though it is only a substack link)

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 19 2023 3:52 utc | 160

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Dec 19 2023 3:50 utc | 156
Then the anti-concern trolls come with “you are a concern troll, they didn’t go in with enough troops to take Kiev, so what you are complaining about?”.
Yes, that is the level of discourse here currently…

There is a balance to be struck – by those who, like ourselves, are peering into the dark glass of geopolitical events – between hagiography of leaders we admire, demonization of those we deplore, a distrust of most news and the attempt to discern more or less what is actually going on. One of b’s great services here as a blog author is to steadily chip away at the false facades presented by Western bloc media. He doesn’t do the same for the facades from the multipolarist bloc which perhaps has engendered a somewhat skewed commentariat including many who take offense when you criticize someone they greatly admire echoing similar dynamics seen with other controversies like Covid, Trump, Israel and so forth.
My personal take on the Kiev issue is that when Putin said as they launched the SMO they had considered all possibilities and were prepared, I took him more or less at his word. I agree with others here who say that the Ukraine kinetics are a cudgel with which to beat down NATO. (I think not just NATO per se but Western hegemony throughout the world, so also a campaign being waged on political and economic fronts.) In that context, the long U-shaped front across South-Eastern Ukraine is a giant cauldron designed to exhaust the West militarily, economically and politically, facilitated by the WEF digitizing psychopaths steering us into totalitarianism from within. Ukraine is not about Ukraine. Of course: maybe that is hero-worship…

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 19 2023 4:25 utc | 161

Daniel N. White | Dec 18 2023 23:40 utc | 107
Unless I am mistaken- a regular ocurrence- Ukraine emerged from the Soviet Union without debt.
Is that correct?
If it is the re-integration of Russian oblasts will presumably reflect the fact that, with the exception of debts incurred to repress/conquer them- close to the definition of odious- none of the state’s debt will fall on them to pay.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 19 2023 4:31 utc | 162

Unless I am mistaken- a regular ocurrence- Ukraine emerged from the Soviet Union without debt.
Is that correct?
If it is the re-integration of Russian oblasts will presumably reflect the fact that, with the exception of debts incurred to repress/conquer them- close to the definition of odious- none of the state’s debt will fall on them to pay.
Posted by: bevin | Dec 19 2023 4:31 utc | 159

Russia took responsibility for the whole USSR balance sheet.
The republics were released with zero debt, all 15 of them.
Also, presumably if the reintegration is done region by region, in the end Ukraine will just evaporate with all its debts. Have you heard anything about DNR/LNR/Kherson/Zaporozhye debts?

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Dec 19 2023 4:41 utc | 163

https://x.com/Blackrussiantv/status/1736832609412350431?s=20
Chechen unit assaults Ukranazi trench, night combat thermal camera footage.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 19 2023 4:50 utc | 164

The most significant aspect is that Russian forces are revealed to the serious observer as the most potent land army in the world, bar none. Further, their extensive aerospace forces..particularly their new drones and hypersonics, let alone their superior airframes..constitute entirely new threat vectors.
Maerican pushing of Russia into the waiting arms of undeclared adversary China was beyond imbecilic. There fucking people are insane.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 19 2023 5:20 utc | 165

Yes, that is the level of discourse here currently…

If a bloviating pseudointellectual farts on a forum, does it make a sound?
Even in the face of a total Russian victory, you moan about improper strategy. Utter hubris, like your masters whose foolishness has left them to this juncture.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 19 2023 5:23 utc | 166

@ Doctor Eleven | Dec 19 2023 5:23 utc | 163
It would be nice if you would adopt the habit of including the
‘Posted by’ line along with the quote you usually open your posts with.
I often want to read more about what you’re saying but with all the clutter
and volume don’t know where to find your reference source. So I let your posts go by.
It’s kinda the protocol here actually but has eroded somewhat from the days before
the Ukr. war threads when the bar was smaller and more cordial.
It’s a simple matter to copy and then paste the line and if addressing someone
directly it’s nice to change the ‘posted by’ to ‘@’ as I did here. And of course
the time stamp is most important since the post numbers change with b’s deletions.
Thanks.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Dec 19 2023 6:06 utc | 167

@: waynorinorway | Dec 19 2023 6:06 utc | 164
I don’t know what’s involved in making this happen, but it would certainly be convenient if there were nested comments here. That would make it much easier to follow the back and forth about any particular sub-topic as it comes up.

Posted by: Honzo | Dec 19 2023 6:45 utc | 168

Noam A. Larkey
The “corrupt and inefficient” Russian army is a fiction up there with the tooth fairy and Father Christmas – a myth animated by our (west-na3i) all-pervading racism and racist supremacism. It might have had some truth in peacetime – what nation’s army is not corrupt and inefficient in peacetime? But it stopped being true of Russia’s army very fast after Feb 2022.
Russia are not fighting tooth-fairy Ukraine of course, but are fighting – and beating – 40 nations of the Fourth Reich. With combined economy 20 times bigger than Russia. Some achievement for a corrupt inefficient army.

Posted by: Andrew Sarchus | Dec 19 2023 7:31 utc | 169

Latest poll: 76% of Ukrainian men ready to renounce citizenship to avoid armed service in Ukraine. Vast majority probably can’t get any other citizenship than Russian citizenship.
What was it Putin said some years ago about to countries becoming one..?
https://twitter.com/GeromanAT/status/1736835883364413553

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 19 2023 7:58 utc | 170

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 18 2023 20:26 utc | 65

How original, are you going to insult my Mom next ?

Your mom is a troll too?
I heard that in the case of trolls, the male is the one that gets pregnant and when they don’t mate they pop an unfertilized troll that dies soon. Or did I see that in a movie?

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 19 2023 8:50 utc | 171

Posted by: Honzo | Dec 19 2023 6:45 utc | 168
I don’t disagree with that idea but it has been suggested Billions and Billions of times over the years.
Iow, it ain’t happenin’.
The best we can do is try to keep communication practices at as high a level as some rate their own intelligence.
(Intelligence both in the sense of ‘smarts’ as well as being ‘informed’.)

Posted by: waynorinorway | Dec 19 2023 8:55 utc | 172

Posted by: Jim | Dec 19 2023 1:30 utc | 134

“Collapse occurs so slowly you don’t notice it and then so suddenly you can’t stop it”.

Good one. Text is rarely more succint than math. This is one of those cases.

Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 19 2023 9:03 utc | 173

I love how the propaganda machine still thinks that we don’t know about projection.
Let’s rewrite it for them.
Without a credible theory of victory, the pressure on Ukraine to negotiate with Russia will mount. The Ukrainians might make a deal — even if it involved making territorial concessions — if they had any confidence that Ukraine would stick to it. But Ukrainian officials can point to a litany of agreements that Ukraine has made and then broken. They believe that any cessation in the fighting would simply be used as an opportunity for Ukraine to rearm.
There that’s better.
When you think about it , protection is the easiest form of propaganda for a journalist. You just write the truth then replace the words Ukraine with Russia.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 19 2023 9:13 utc | 174

The people unhappy with the Kremlin’s (in)competence and true loyalties complain bitterly about things like going in with insufficient forces when anyone with half a brain knew that if you go in, you have to go in hard and take over the whole country quickly, or you will be stuck in quagmire (BTW, this is why I only realized they indeed were going to invade a few days before it started — there just was no sign that sufficient forces had been gathered for a proper operation).
Then the anti-concern trolls come with “you are a concern troll, they didn’t go in with enough troops to take Kiev, so what you are complaining about?”.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Dec 19 2023 3:50 utc | 156
It’s a circular argument you (and your concern troll ilk) created yourselves. No one, outside of neocon propagandists, thought that Russia was ever going to take over all of Ukraine. “Go in hard and take the whole country, or you’re stuck in quagmire?!” you say. This is just a recapitulation of the failed Powell doctrine.
An army cannot occupy another country anymore, not completely. It isn’t possible, not unless the power differential is so asymmetrical as to be laughable, such as US vs. Grenada. But even then the occupying country would still be hard-pressed to hold complete control.
How many troops are necessary to prevent “quagmire” or insurgency? The US sent 3 million troops to Vietnam in total. They sent over two million troops to Iraq and Afghanistan in total. They were still stuck in quagmire. And this was in countries with a smaller land size and population than Ukraine.
So how many troops would Russia have had to send to satisfy your mantra of take the whole country? Enough to trigger NATO, which you seem to be most worried about. That’s called a self-fulfilling prophecy.
From the beginning of the SMO, Putin has clearly stated the goals of the operation as: de-militarization, and de-Nazification of Ukraine, as well as establishing permanent neutral status for Ukraine. Nothing about occupation, nothing about regime change. It’s inferred by some here that de-Nazification means “regime change”, but I don’t think it ever meant that. You can de-militarize a country without occupying it or changing the regime. It’s difficult to do but it can be done. So far, Russia seems to be having success with that.
The reason you are now labeled a concern troll is because in all your posts you moan and groan about Russian strategy without stating a clear understanding of that strategy. Now, I give you some credit in that I think you do know the strategy but are intentionally ignoring it. Instead, you post your drivel on a if not (nominally) pro-Russians blog, at least a blog where the majority of posters and the owner are sympathetic to Russia, and are against American imperialism. Hence the label “concern troll.”
Of course it is entirely possible you don’t understand Russia’s strategy, and are not smart enough to understand strategy in general. In which case, I suggest you stop posting and read more.

Posted by: James M. | Dec 19 2023 9:19 utc | 175

@103
Ms. Z is afaik residing primarily in Germany.
And IMU theirs is mostly a business relation.

Posted by: MAKK | Dec 19 2023 9:32 utc | 176

Unless I am mistaken- a regular ocurrence- Ukraine emerged from the Soviet Union without debt.
Is that correct? If it is the re-integration of Russian oblasts will presumably reflect the fact that, with the exception of debts incurred to repress/conquer them- close to the definition of odious- none of the state’s debt will fall on them to pay.
Posted by: bevin | Dec 19 2023 4:31 utc | 162
Yes, they had no debt, as written above. For this reason it seems like a good idea to leave a Ukr in the shape of Lvov, maybe with Kiev too, so that a ukro entity remains to pay debts to the West and remains dirt poor. Nato’s Donbass Gaza can’t continue forever so it’ll simply have to be moved to Kiev/Lvov where it can continue forever or until Poland invades Ukr and then Russia can legally bomb Poland into space with no objection from brics. When Moldova will get into nato by assimilation, a forever war zone will be created there as well so that later Romania can be bombed into space, which will also fulfill Hungary’s old dream to take Transylvania. The alleged 300bn stolen by the West (it isn’t very clear how much, at the beginning nato announced 600bn so I have big doubts about 300 as well, it’s probably less) will have to be recovered by confiscating all Western assets, which according to twitter warrior Medvedev are larger than the money stolen by nato.

Posted by: rk | Dec 19 2023 9:47 utc | 177

And now “Great” Britain wants to have a naval pact with tge Zelensky! It still hasn’t recovered from the Anglo russo war of 1807-1812? Is Britain keen to join an alliance with the lost continent of Atlantis?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/18/britain-plans-naval-support-for-ukraine/#:~:text=Britain%20has%20donated%20£2.3,sharing%20between%20London%20and%20Kyiv.

Posted by: Srang | Dec 19 2023 10:01 utc | 178

It seems that the number of Ukrainian officials who trash-talk about the conflict and about Russia is multiplying, especially as the situation on the battlefield deteriorates. These attempts to get in the news may seem strange in the circumstances until one considers that they may constitute a kind of voucher of one’s anti-Russian pedigree.
Let’s be realistic, the number of Ukrainian officials who may be facing arrest for war and other crimes following the capitulation, may be far greater than the capacity of the Western nations to accommodate political asylum applicants. A greater number of such vouchers may give one a better chance of securing a plum spot.

Posted by: Pagan | Dec 19 2023 10:15 utc | 179

“Theory of victory”.
“Redefining victory”.
What a bunch of losers.
Ukraine is being hacked to pieces. Putin will not even give the West some way to save face. It will be surrender and acceptance of what Russia decides for the future of the Ukraine.
I hope Volodia takes almost all of the Ukraine (he can leave the toxic part to Poland, or as a failed buffer state depending forever on the EU’s charity) and starts re-christianising that bunch of neonazeez.
Ukraine is the new Hamas, and Putin is going all Israel on them.
Meanwhile, these champagne stategists “theorise victory” with their gay boyfriends.

Posted by: Augusto Pi | Dec 19 2023 10:34 utc | 180

Trump’s been capitalizing on all that, but as before he’s all hat and no cattle.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 19 2023 0:08 utc | 113
It is a lot worse than that. Only this week he shows he is laser focused on China. Shows yet again he is a complete idiot.
When you go shopping you want to get the cheapest price possible when you buy. However, Trump is determined to pay as much as he possibly can when he goes shopping by putting as many import tariffs as he can on China.
Americans will pay more and in this environment probably inflationary. Because he can’t replace the imports he gets from China from anywhere elsewhere. They discovered that with Soyabeans as Argentina simply couldn’t full the demand. So they paid more to China for them. He done the same with Canadian lumber. He was getting it very cheap but wanted to pay as much as he possibly could for it.
Imports are a HUGE benefit as it improves the living standards of Americans. That’s the only reason to export. Trump is determined to pay as much as he can for them and cause more inflation while he is at it.
China probably can’t stop laughing at him behind the scenes.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 19 2023 10:47 utc | 181

Man, this is literally reverse world…

The Ukrainians might make a deal — even if it involved making territorial concessions — if they had any confidence that Russia would stick to it. But Ukrainian officials can point to a litany of agreements that Putin has made and then broken. They believe that any cessation in the fighting would simply be used as an opportunity for Russia to rearm.

The Russians might make a deal — even if it involved making territorial concessions — if they had any confidence that the West would stick to it. But Russian officials can point to a litany of agreements that the West has made and then broken. They believe that any cessation in the fighting would simply be used as an opportunity for the Ukraine to rearm.

Posted by: Tichy | Dec 19 2023 10:57 utc | 182

Re: Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Dec 19 2023 3:50 utc | 159

Yes, that is the level of discourse here currently…

The level of discourse here by many commentators and the praise for the 46D Chess Putin is supposedly playing reminds me a lot of the 28D Chess Trump played in 2019 & 2020 to expose and destroy the so-called “Deep State” in the run-up to his glorious Presidential victory in 2020!
It’s amazing stuff.
It’s like these two “Chess Masters” are so far ahead of anyone else it’s impossible for mere mortals to have any real conceptual understanding of the games they are playing so skilfully the only people they play with are themselves!

Posted by: Julian | Dec 19 2023 11:00 utc | 183

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 19 2023 0:08 utc | 113
It as all because Trump and MAGA voters think that running a trade deficit makes America a debtor nation. This insane belief system that China funds America.
Which was absolutely true under a gold standard, fixed exchange rate regime.
But not today.
https://warrenmosler.com/the-innocent-fraud-of-the-trade-deficit-whos-funding-whom/
A look past the rhetoric at what the US government actually owes the holder of the Treasury security is revealing. What the government promises is that at maturity the foreigner’s security account at the Fed will be debited, and his bank’s reserve account at the Fed will be credited for the balance due.
In other words, the US government’s promise is only that a non-interest bearing reserve balance will be substituted for an interest bearing Treasury security. This is never a potential source of financial stress for the government.
America enjoys all those lovely cheap imports and All China gets in return after exchanging some $’s into their own currency to pay the Chinese workers who export. Are billions of US treasuries sitting at the FED gathering dust.
Like we do when we come back from a holiday and throw our foreign coins in the back of the drawer and forget about them.
America is winning the trade war. Trump is so thick he doesn’t realise it. Determined to destroy America’s real terms of trade.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 19 2023 11:00 utc | 184

Re: Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 19 2023 5:23 utc | 166

Even in the face of a total Russian victory, you moan about improper strategy. Utter hubris, like your masters whose foolishness has left them to this juncture.

What ”Total Russian victory”?
There is no such thing at present except your fevered dreams grounded in delusion.
A TOTAL VICTORY is what the USA achieved over Japan in 1945 – and still subjugated today nearly 80 years later.
Russia is nowhere near such a victory.

Posted by: Julian | Dec 19 2023 11:07 utc | 185

Ukraine is the new Hamas, and Putin is going all Israel on them.
Posted by: Augusto Pi | Dec 19 2023 10:34 utc | 180
Worst comparison ever.
The SMO has been a MILLITARY operation with maybe 1% civilian casualties.
The war on Palestinians has that ratio reversed (or very close).
Not even discussing Ius ad bellum, Ius in bello would be enough for anyone NOT to make such an insulting comparison.

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 19 2023 11:11 utc | 186

Posted by: pyrrhus | Dec 18 2023 21:32 utc | 93
“…The mass delusion in the West continues.. when has any nation ever defeated Russia in a land war in EurAsia?”
1241 was the date when the Mongols consolidated their military victories over the Russians.(1)So , roughly, 800 years ago.
1. The campaign was heralded by the Battle of the Kalka River in May 1223, which resulted in a Mongol victory over the forces of several Rus’ principalities as well as the remnants of the Cumans under Köten. The Mongols retreated, having gathered their intelligence, which was the purpose of the reconnaissance-in-force. A full-scale invasion of Rus’ by Batu Khan followed, from 1237 to 1241. The invasion was ended by the Mongol succession process upon the death of Ögedei Khan. Most Rus’ principalities were forced to submit to Mongol rule and became vassals of the Golden Horde, excluding the Novgorod Republic and a few others.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 19 2023 11:18 utc | 187

The main reason the USA runs a trade deficit with countries like China is because it’s much cheaper to make stuff in China than it is in the USA.US workers command higher wages because there are fewer workers and those workers demand higher wages to meet their higher living standards. The inverse is true in China where living standards are lower and there is an abundance of workers.
You might say, that US workers are worse off because they have lost their jobs to the Chinese workers. This is true in some sense and wrong in another sense. When US corporations make their goods in China they are then able to sell those goods at much lower prices in the USA. So while some workers are worse off the larger consumer base is better off since the benefit to the US consumer is that they get the cheaper goods AND they have more money to spend elsewhere in the economy.
So if the jobs come back everything becomes more expensive as producers will pass the cost on. Companies won’t come back anyway they will just up Vietnam or somewhere else with cheap labour.
One result of increasing globalization is that more of national income has flowed to corporations which has led to higher inequality. But again, inequality is a problem that tariffs won’t fix.
Trump is fixated with a gold standard, fixed exchange rate world. Because the Austrian gold bugs who are advising him live rent free in his head. They live in that world permanently.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 19 2023 11:26 utc | 188

– The West imposed an export boycot/ban on Russia but Russia kept exporting natural gas to that same West. As a result the russian trade deficit turned into a trade surplus !!!

Posted by: Mr. Market | Dec 19 2023 11:41 utc | 189

… One of b’s great services here as a blog author is to steadily chip away at the false facades presented by Western bloc media. He doesn’t do the same for the facades from the multipolarist bloc which perhaps has engendered a somewhat skewed commentariat …
Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 19 2023 4:25 utc | 161

I’ve thought for a while to make a similar observation but never got around to it. B is great, posts nothing false, corrects without hesitation and is extremely tolerant of the threads but it is as you say.

Posted by: anon2020 | Dec 19 2023 11:47 utc | 190

Feral Finster | Dec 18 2023 21:28 utc | 90–
Gruff is correct. Hypothermia can very rapidly disable even the fittest of people, and that river water is perhaps 1-2C at best now. In our 50F ocean, one minute is about all you have, and that’s with no combat load.
Paul Damascene | Dec 18 2023 21:00 utc | 84–
Thanks for your reply. In my commentary, I mention the close resemblance of the Proposals with Xi’s Global Security Initiative. They are also the basis for Russia’s Persian Gulf Security Plan and also for Iran’s HOPE for the region that was introduced at the 2019 UNGA. And of course, all are based on the UN Charter.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 18 2023 23:04 utc | 106
Yes, Gruff is correct. Last year I took my younger son up to Lake Nipigon (way up North in Ontario, Canada)to do mineral prospecting for lithium. I am experienced in the bush as I have been prospecting for 40 years.
Its was early November and when we got to the hotel that night it snowed about 4 inches.
At 5 in the morning we set out on a deserted, gravel, pock marked road and travelled 65 clicks north of Algoma Station.
It wasn’t that cold, maybe 30 degrees F. or a bit lower. It was heavily forested with an old lumber road transecting the property N/South.
We weren’t dressed that warm but we had rubber boots, gloves, decent coats (you never want to dress too warm cause if you sweat then the sweat will turn cold et al); however, we were in cedar bog which is treacherous and the bogs weren’t frozen so we would break the thin ice and get a soaker. A couple of times we lost a boot in the bogs-it was sucked in- and had to wrestle it out.
We were prospecting for lithium, which unlike most minerals is found in pegmatite which is in granite. Granite is very hard. So I brought my 12 lb sledgehammer to bang the rocks to get pegmatite for samples.
Over 3 or 4 hours we had filled our two shoulder held samples bags and time to head back to the lumber road to lead us back to our truck. I was tired as banging the sledgehammer is hard work for a 60 year old man.
It was overcast and snowing a bit so you couldn’t see the sun. I had a GPS but I kept it in my pocket turned off as I didn’t want to kill the batteries. I have a compass around my neck so I used it to navigate back to the lumber road as its was simply directly West about 300 metres .
We walked for 45 minutes or so, we couldn’t find the road. I was beat and I was thinking of telling my son-let’s drop the our samples and the pick and sledgehammer as we were getting weak so we could walk unencumbered. So we dropped out stuff and I got the GPS out. I discovered we had gone 500 metres in the opposite direction (East) .
I thought hard and I figured out my mistake: when I took that compass out of coat to see the direction in my right hand I held the sledgehammer right up to the compass so that the iron of the sledgehammer attracted to the compass so that it pointed to the hammer rather than the magnetic North.
We got out in about 30 minutes yet we were very, very exhausted. Another hour or two in that bush- wet, cold, tired, confused we would have laid down and gone away.
A cautionary tale.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 19 2023 11:48 utc | 191

Noam A. Larkey | Dec 18 2023 17:15 utc | 5, stop writing cr@p.
There is NO morality on the side of ukraine when they are being used in a proxy war caused by the damn, evil, cursed USG. And Russia is fighting hato and doing relatively very well.

Posted by: Ralph | Dec 19 2023 11:53 utc | 192

” It is useless to explain anything to a troll.
Posted by: Naive | Dec 18 2023 19:58 utc | 54
—————————————————————-
How original, are you going to insult my Mom next ?
Posted by: Moonie | Dec 18 2023 20:26 utc | 65
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Is your mom a troll too?
Posted by: Ed | Dec 19 2023 1:46 utc | 138
Moonie’s mom is quite nice; your mom is nice too , Ed as is Naive’s.
Now, children can we knock off the childish,pointless name calling ?

Posted by: canuck | Dec 19 2023 12:01 utc | 193

In the Dutch language media there are some stories about Igor Salikov who arrived in the Netherlands to testify at the ICC. He claims to be a former colonel of the Wagner Group who fought in Ukraine and arrived at the conclusion that he was fighting for the wrong case. He is 60 years old and before starting with Wagner he had a career in the Russian army.
Here is an English language article about him:
https://www.politico.eu/article/ex-russia-wagner-officer-russia-atrocities-ukraine-war-crimes-igor-salikov/
Here a more detailed Dutch language article. The video is the most interesting. Parts are in Dutch, but large parts contain spoken Russian or English:
https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20231218_96450725?

Posted by: Wim | Dec 19 2023 12:36 utc | 194

“America is winning the trade war. Trump is so thick he doesn’t realise it. Determined to destroy America’s real terms of trade.”
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 19 2023 11:00 utc | 184
Yes, US government solvency is fine until it isn’t; the only thing keeping it solvent is the world’s psychological belief in the greenback which is fully consistent with the US having military power over the world.
The world is finding out that the US military supremacy is no more; so tomorrow, a year from now or 3 years when the psychology shifts from now the dollar will be dropped and America will be bankrupt; “now slowly, then suddenly.”
Its inevitable.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 19 2023 12:51 utc | 195

What ”Total Russian victory”?
There is no such thing at present except your fevered dreams grounded in delusion.
A TOTAL VICTORY is what the USA achieved over Japan in 1945 – and still subjugated today nearly 80 years later.
Russia is nowhere near such a victory.
Posted by: Julian | Dec 19 2023 11:07 utc | 185
I’m afraid you’ve been watching too many movies.
A military victory is achieving an objective set out by their political masters. If your political leaders task you with the subjegation of the enemy then achieving subjegation is a military victory.
Russia has well defined objectives in the SMO and it’s way too early to declare victory for Russia. The military objectives of demilitarization and liberation of the 4 oblasts are well underway. The military can play a role in denazification but it’s not the right tool for the job.
IMHO it’s too early to declare victory but Russia has the upper hand. The plan was that if the Russians came to the defense of the Donbas rebels then the knockout blow would be the “nuclear level” western sanctions. Those sanctions failed … in fact they backfired.
Western politicians have gone all in on a military victory in Ukraine and that no longer looks achievable. The media talks stalemate and negotiations however the Russians have ruled out negotiations and want to end this on the battlefield. This is a very troubling situation IMHO because these politicians are headed into elections and they have neither the education nor intellect to make wise decisions around this conflict.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Dec 19 2023 13:36 utc | 196

“US government solvency is fine until it isn’t; the only thing keeping it solvent is the world’s psychological belief in the greenback.”
Posted by: canuck | Dec 19 2023 12:51 utc | 195
I impose a tax on you in $’s, which I will enforce by confiscating all your assets and denying you your liberty. Whether you trust or believe in the $ or not, you’ll endeavour to get some – because that is cheaper than the alternative.
And the only way to get some is to offer your assets or effort for sale to the issuer of $ (me). Or exchange with somebody who already has $’s .No trust required. Just a simple market calculation and a selection of the discounted option.
The value of the currency is then simple. It’s how much effort I require from you in return for the $’s you need to settle your tax liabilities to me that I imposed on you.
It has the sovereign’s head on it. That’s whose money it is. If the tax rates go up next week, you’ll have less of it.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 19 2023 13:40 utc | 197

Posted by: Julian | Dec 19 2023 11:07 utc | 185
Are you promoting that Russia stops playing nice and drops nuclear bombs on Ukraine?

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Dec 19 2023 13:41 utc | 198

Its inevitable.
Posted by: canuck | Dec 19 2023 12:51 utc | 195
I disagree, inside America $ is king and just like inside Russia Rouble is king and that’s all that matters. Because spend and then tax is how you move your skills and real resources around within your own borders were you think you need them.
What the government proposes to use skills and real resources for, where it is going to get those skills and real resources from, and what are the alternative uses for those skills and real resources is all they care about within their own borders.
De- Dollarisation is way, way, overhyped. On that insane belief that other countries fund it and their budget deficits.
I like I say there are many Americans out there who will be glad they are getting rid of the $ zombies. It will reduce the national debt for starters. Not worry about the effect the interest rate changes have on the global south.
If you listen to Putin very closely all be wants is free trade and to develop what skills and real resources he has the way he wants. That’s it.
So when he trades he doesn’t want anybody to be able to steal the foreign coins he throws into the back of drawer AFTER he gets the imports he needs.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 19 2023 14:00 utc | 199

It will continue the war until the Ukraine agrees to some kind of negotiations and territorial losses.
Russia has specifically stated that the war will continue until capitulation. There will be no negotiations. Territorial losses have almost nothing to do with it.

Posted by: BM | Dec 19 2023 14:42 utc | 200