Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 11, 2023

Ukraine SitRep: Krynky - Zelenski's Rose Tinted Media Strategy - New Orders From DC

In late October the Ukrainian army started to send soldiers to the left bank of the Dnieper River which is held by Russian forces. Dozens of soldiers crossed from the norther Kherson region using rubber dinghies and other small boats. The captured parts of the rural town Krynky (Krinki).


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The usefulness of this operation, carried out by Ukrainian marine brigades, was always in question. Was this supposed to be the start of a larger crossing? That seemed unlikely as the small canals through the marshes and the intense drone coverage do not allow for a large movement.

Was this a diversion? Possibly, but a diversion from what?

Every night the Ukrainians sent new boats with fresh forces and supplies and to evacuated wounded soldiers. The Russian military did not attempt to evict the Ukrainians by ground forces but covered them intensely with artillery, air-bombing and drones. Boat after boat was destroyed during the crossing attempts. In the summary of last weeks operation the Russian Defense ministry claimed to have destroyed three such boats per day.

To me this looked like the unsuccessful holding of Bakhmut earlier this year - a waste of soldiers for only a short propaganda gain.

It took some time for western media to question the operation. Last week the BBC was the first to give a first hand account of it:

Ukraine war: Soldier tells BBC of front-line 'hell'

Outnumbered and outgunned, one front-line soldier has given a sobering account of Ukraine's struggle to cling on to its foothold on the east bank of the vast Dnipro river.

Several hundred Ukrainian soldiers have made it there as part of a counter-offensive launched six months ago.

Under relentless Russian fire, the soldier spent several weeks on the Russian-occupied side of the river as Ukraine sought to establish a bridgehead around the village of Krynky. The BBC is not naming him to protect his identity.

His account, sent via a messaging app, speaks of troop boats blown out of the water, inexperienced reinforcements and a feeling of abandonment by Ukraine's military commanders.

It highlights growing tensions as Ukraine's defence against Russia's invasion grinds to the end of another year.

Ukraine's military told the BBC they are not commenting on the situation in that area for security reasons.

The soldier is not happy about the situation:

"The entire river crossing is under constant fire. I've seen boats with my comrades on board just disappear into the water after being hit, lost forever to the Dnipro river.

"We must carry everything with us - generators, fuel and food. When you're setting up a bridgehead you need a lot of everything, but supplies weren't planned for this area.

"We thought after we made it there the enemy would flee and then we could calmly transport everything we needed, but it didn't turn out that way.

"When we arrived on the [eastern] bank, the enemy were waiting. Russians we managed to capture said their forces were tipped off about our landing so when we got there, they knew exactly where to find us. They threw everything at us - artillery, mortars and flame thrower systems. I thought I'd never get out."

"We thought that the Russians would flee." One wonders who had indoctrinated these guys. Now there seems to be no larger plan. The orders are to just hold onto Krynky and to die.

"Several brigades were supposed to be posted here, not individual companies - we just don't have enough men.

"There are a lot of young guys among us. We need people, but trained people, not the green ones we have there now. There are guys who had spent just three weeks in training, and only managed to shoot a few times.

"It's a total nightmare. A year ago, I wouldn't have said that, but now, sorry, I'm fed up.

"Everyone who wanted to volunteer for war came a long time ago - it's too hard now to tempt people with money. Now we're getting those who didn't manage to escape the draft. You'll laugh at this, but some of our marines can't even swim."

Ukrainian media, which so far had to avoid any criticism of the government and military, is also becoming grumbly. Via Strana (machine translation):

Heavy Krynki. Problematic issues related to the AFU bridgehead on the left bank of the Kherson region

The operation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to hold the bridgehead on the left bank of the Dnieper is meaningless and leads only to heavy losses.

This is reported by the Odessa edition of "Dumskaya".

"The sailors cross the river, and most of them are killed on the approach to the shore. Those who survived and crossed the river will be ironed with everything that is in the arsenal of Russia. People are just constantly being thrown over the river — wave after wave. There is no question of any further breakthrough, now the forces are being spent just to stay there. For what?

It would have made a difference if we had a promotion elsewhere. Then these bridgeheads would distract the enemy. But no, we're already defending somewhere else. So why all this? The command needs to urgently curtail this operation. It was clearly going to be linked to the offensive in the Zaporozhye region, but it has already ended. In this regard, the ongoing attempts to throw Marines on the left bank — something beyond good and evil, "- writes "Duma".

Today's Financial Times picks up on the growing grumbling with the Ukrainian society:

Ukrainians question Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s ‘rose-tinted’ speeches (archived)

For more than 650 days in a row, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy has given at least one video address to the nation — praising his troops, celebrating advances along the front lines and reaffirming resolve in the face of Russian aggression.

The message is always “we’re moving forward”, with the aim of maintaining optimism at home and abroad, according to three people familiar with the communications strategy. The policy is applied at all state levels, from ministries and local administrations to military commanders and includes strict censorship of bad news such as Ukrainian casualty numbers or successful Russian strikes.

But with Ukraine enjoying few military achievements this year and western support faltering, the communications strategy is creating a rift between the presidential administration and military leadership, say officials from the armed forces, former presidential staffers and communication strategists.

“We need to add more realism ... and we have to be as courageous about it as we were on February 24 [2022],” said a person connected to the presidential communications strategy in reference to the day Russia began its full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

In his review of the FT piece Andrew Korybko summarizes:

The socio-political conditions that are being created as a result of Zelensky’s refusal to recognize reality and de-escalate the conflict with a view towards freezing it lend credence to what Russian foreign spy chief Naryshkin said on Monday regarding the West’s growing interest in replacing him. He explained that the West doesn’t consider him capable of doing the aforesaid due to how far he’s gone in building up his hawkish image, hence the need to possibly swap him out for someone else in order to initiate this.

Yesterday the Ukrainian president was seen in Buenos Aires where he attended the inauguration of Argentine's new rightwing president Javier Milei. He also had a short but seemingly hefty exchange with Hungary's prime minister Victor Orban who is currently blocking new EU action and money in support of Ukraine.

Before he could fly back to Kiev Zelenski received an order to appear in Washington DC:

President Biden has invited President Volodymyr Zelenskyy of Ukraine to the White House for a meeting on Tuesday, December 12 to underscore the United States’ unshakeable commitment to supporting the people of Ukraine as they defend themselves against Russia’s brutal invasion. As Russia ramps up its missile and drone strikes against Ukraine, the leaders will discuss Ukraine’s urgent needs and the vital importance of the United States’ continued support at this critical moment.

The Biden administration may seek talks between Zelenski and Senate and House leaders. But such talks are unlikely to unfreeze the currently held up future aid to Ukraine. It will also use the conservation with Zelenski to push him towards negotiating with Russia. Or said differently: to read him the riot act.

If the Ukraine does not start to negotiated with Russia within the next few weeks Zelenski will be replaced.

Posted by b on December 11, 2023 at 15:42 UTC | Permalink

Comments
next page »
conversing back and forth for about 20 seconds

That thar is some quality Blinken face-to-face diplomacy.

ahahahahahah

Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 11 2023 16:04 utc | 1

Russia has made it pretty clear that there is no point in negotiating or meeting with Ukraine puppets.
Yes, Zelensky can revoke their current constitutional status as far as negotiations with Putin/Russia, but frankly, it was never Zelensky or his constitutional “edicts” to hat was preventing talks, it was always Biden et el.

Regardless of the “Zaluzny” hype, both Zelensky & Zaluzny are war criminals & regardless of Zelensky’s removal, which would be purely for political “blame game of West”, there’s no reason to shuffle deck chairs.

Until the 2021 Security NATO/US proposals are signed, no one is going anywhere and they’ll be no “settlement”…
Russia simply has no reason to institute a Minsk III.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 11 2023 16:06 utc | 2

I'm not sure Zelensky has any independent thought at all. He's an actor. He reads the script given to him.

Posted by: Matthew | Dec 11 2023 16:09 utc | 3

The plane carrying the 'hawkish one' might get lost over the Bermuda triangle.

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Dec 11 2023 16:10 utc | 4

In response to
"
If the Ukraine does not start to negotiated with Russia within the next few weeks Zelenski will be replaced.

Posted by b on December 11, 2023 at 15:42 UTC
"

Thanks for the posting b but WTF with the Ukraine negotiating with Russia position?

Ukraine is a proxy for empire and I don't expect Russia to negotiate with anyone but empire, whomever that might be.

Russia stated clearly in the beginning of its SMO that NATO realignment back to 1997 positions and no more aggression are necessary negotiating positions and Ukraine is not part of that Russia goal, so why negotiate with Z?

Empire is still trying to control the narrative and it is failing.

Z isn't the only one with rose-tinted glasses that need to be removed. Replacing Z is just creating more scenes in the movie in which lots are dying unnecessarily.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 11 2023 16:11 utc | 5

Voldemort Cocainsky is out of the country (Argentina/USA) - bloodless coup d'etat next?

Posted by: Last page? | Dec 11 2023 16:12 utc | 6

Oh, and yes, funds will flow again to Ukraine after 4th quarter end of year books closed…
Biden will release another 2-300 million traunch on the 12th…

My “pool bet” stands at 44 Billion…

I’ve no idea why anyone is actually mulling around this PR nonsense when Yellen is frothing at the bit to print, print, print… the QE to infinity for any and all made up reasons must go on!! And besides, Ukraine is a reliable laundry mat…
They can get another years worth of bodies to continue the grift for 3 more quarters at least.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 11 2023 16:13 utc | 7

the new ukrainian ''recruits'' should just be fitted with suicide vests,its not like they can effectively use weapons or that they have a life expectancy of more than a few hours at the front.Young ,old, children ,women,everybody can wear a vest, Jihadis have shown the way

Posted by: homer d | Dec 11 2023 16:22 utc | 8

Zelenski best negotiate with the multinational corporations who
have been raping and pillaging Ukraine. He needs their permission to talk with Russia. Its difficult to image how Zelenski is going to restore Nord Stream II to working order..

Posted by: snake | Dec 11 2023 16:28 utc | 9

War until the last ukrainian

https://t.me/xoxol_uk/19569

Posted by: Psycho | Dec 11 2023 16:28 utc | 10

"Ukraine-Russia war: Britain donates amphibious vehicles as Ukraine cements Dnipro foothold"
11 December 2023 • 3:19pm UK Daily Telegraph

The headline says it all. Cements??? A PR event, not a military operation.I feel sorry for the poor saps involved.

Posted by: marcjf | Dec 11 2023 16:33 utc | 11

Ukraine is a house of cards. EU needs to pump in 5 - 10 billion euros on average every month just to keep the thing from collapsing.

The attacks are going nowher. Russia is increasing its advantage of artillery and drones and EW. Ukraine is holding Avdeevka through deploying a mish mash of units from all over the front to hold it. They are continuously shuffling them around instead of drawing from a new reserve, because there is no new reserve. Including Stryker and Leopard vehicles are almost exclusively deployed around Avdeevka. Gaps are forming in Bakhmut and Rabnotyne as a result, where premium AFU armored forces were also hammered in their earlier attacks west of Rabotyne and Novopokrovka.

Behind Avdeevka is pretty much nothing but fields for the next 30km. The next decently large town is at 40km. Those are the next viable line where a defense line might be formulated.

RUAF has formed powerful artillery fists based on its mobile 203mm and 152mm SP-artillery, which is obviously intended to create localized breakthroughs and break forts.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 11 2023 16:37 utc | 12

This indoctrination is interesting part of Ukie military.

There are countless videos of crews of western armor, or infantry "special" forces training in western specop CQC tactics, or handlers of various equipment (be it arty, atgms, javelins/stingers etc.)

They are/were all high on their superiority: Ruskies are no match, their equipment sucks, their moral is broken, they will flee as soon as they see us.

They seriously believe they are Übermensch, technologically and morally superior. All this thanks to western propaganda machinery.

And that is before you add various drugs in the mix, they stuff their soldiers with before they send them to die.

Posted by: Abe | Dec 11 2023 16:38 utc | 13

Important & nasty desperation:

https://tass.com/politics/1719171

SBU planning to poison Russian soldiers with cyanide-like agent — Russian Defense Ministry

“MOSCOW, December 11. /TASS/. The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) is plotting to weaponize poisonous substances - similar to cyanide - in the Russian armed forces’ area of operation in lieu of the failure of the Ukrainian counteroffensive, says Igor Kirillov, Commander of the Russian Radiation, Chemical and Biological Protection Troops.”

“Earlier in November, Defense Ministry specialists, together with the federal agricultural watchdog agency, detected an outbreak of the African swine fever virus in the settlement of Chernigovka, Zaporozhye Region, that was deliberately released, Kirillov said.”

“"Over 7,000 animals were slaughtered as a result of the intentional introduction of the ASFV pathogen to an agricultural enterprise. The contagion was detected in the absence of carrier activity or natural migration of wildlife. Such scenarios aim to stimulate social tensions, discontent over the actions of Russian authorities, and to create threats to food security," Kirillov explained.”

Bio Weapons/Chemical Weapons—-
Accounts of “actual use” not “threat”…

Not sure how much more or longer between Ukraine & Israel terrorism that Russia/China will stand by.

Until “strategic patience” or imperative to protect becomes impossible.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 11 2023 16:48 utc | 14

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Dec 11 2023 16:10 utc | 4

#################

I can't see the West doing that unless they can find some way to blame it on Russia.

For his devotion to the cause of corporate Globohomo, Z must die a hero and martyr.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 11 2023 16:50 utc | 15

Matthew @ 3

I'm not sure Zelensky has any independent thought at all. He's an actor. He reads the script given to him.

No need for qualifiers - "not sure", feel free to be 100% certain. I guarantee no one in Ukrainian politics or military takes any heed of a guy who never earned even the minimum credibility in politics or military experience and was actually put in power by external forces delegating the charge to UK TV and Hollywood show runners to storyboard him into a leader.

No one in the AFU of any rank listens to Zelensky's opinion, much less orders, on how to send men to die, and the same goes for all the politicians, federal, regional, local, who clawed and scrambled their way into power the old fashioned way, rough house, through shrewdness and guile, a skill in itself. Anyone in Ukraine power that isn't an imported spiv looks at Zelensky as an illegitimate fraud and doesn't give him the time of day. His use is outside Ukraine, for external use only, a cartoon character for those nations of the golden billion funding the operation.

Also, while I appreciate b's collating info on the Dnieper weirdness and Krynky of which there has been little, I put zero value in anything coming out of the BBC, Strana, Financial Times, or any and all western msm, and I would bet b a good sit down lunch that "Ukraine war: Soldier tells BBC of front-line 'hell'" is completely invented, al la Waugh's 1938 book "Scoop" - the soldier much less his story never existed. Not so much out of subterfuge but pure indolence on the part of the msm. At this point why even bother getting up from your computer to interview to real life soldier, what's he going to tell you that you can't just make up?

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 11 2023 17:01 utc | 16

Two other cents, and I find this hard to believe myself but it's not impossible, that incomprehensible offensives like Artemovsk, Rabotino, Krynky, and even the counter-offensive in totality, are exactly what they appear to be, over-arching, all encompassing incompetence out of the Pentagon, Whitehall, and Brussels. Look around - 40ys of crapification of everything in life, why should the Ukraine war be different? Clown World runs deep, very, very deep.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 11 2023 17:15 utc | 17

Krynky is just another meat grinder like so many others. The interviewed Ukie was indeed extremely lucky. Elsewhere along the FEBA, Russia is advancing daily as it encounters shattered Ukie formations. Russia reports most resistance is from mine fields and FPV drones. Most Russian AFVs are equipped with Anti-Drone Hats thus making them easy to distinguish from Ukie AFVs in vids. Russian use of FPV drones is extensive but Ukie tactics have yet to adjust to this very obvious threat. I never see Ukie troops raising up to fire at drones that are about to drop their bombs onto them. From what I see, the main enemy on both sides are drones. Several months ago I suggested each squad have a dedicated drone spotter or two. Rybar reports that the Russians have changed their manpower deployment in trenches to thin troop density and thus reduce drone attack casualties.

As for Zelensky's no negotiations decree, can the Rada override that or must the President revoke it? And even if that's done, would the Russians talk. IMO, they would but they would be about surrender terms, not ceasefire/Minsk-type crap.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 11 2023 17:24 utc | 18

It will also use the conservation with Zelenski to push him towards negotiating with Russia. Or said differently: to read him the riot act. If the Ukraine does not start to negotiated with Russia within the next few weeks Zelenski will be replaced.
Posted by b on December 11, 2023 at 15:42 UTC | Permalink

Zely is a simple actor, there's no need to "push him", he does what Vicky/Biden gang tells him to do. He also has spoken today, there will be no negotiations: "Ukraine cannot agree to a truce with Russia along the current front line (...) Ukraine wants to restore its integrity, this is to restore peace on our land (...) And next to me there should be people who are ready to take up arms for this and help these people. This is the Constitution, this and there is a law” .
He will also receive two British Sandown ships. Will be very funny to see that, considering HMS Defender (if I remember correctly) in 2021 when Russian generals and politicians (with properties in London, of course) pissed their pants and let it sail in territorial waters until Bojo got bored and left.
Kirillov said today that Ukr has bought in Nov 2023 ingredients from Germany and US to make mustard gas. Negotiations will not exist from the nato's side, as they won't exist in Gaza from nato's side.

Posted by: rk | Dec 11 2023 17:32 utc | 19

Zelensky’s trip to the United States is necessary to close the case with BlackRock; all strategic enterprises of the country: nuclear power plants/hydroelectric power stations/UGS/regional energy companies/regional gas companies/factories, and most importantly, subsoil and land will go under the control of a transnational company.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/20779

Posted by: Down South | Dec 11 2023 17:34 utc | 20

Raids are taking place in Odessa. Military commissars in search of “meat”. Nikolaevskaya road, in front of Odeskabel they stand as if at a bride show, they slow down the minibuses and disembark everyone and immediately take the “non-SLAVES” to the military registration and enlistment office.

https://t.me/HOVAYSY/3231
In Odessa, military commissars are catching the richest who ride minibuses and are unlikely to be able to resist the lawlessness of the TCC.

There are massive raids everywhere now. Zelensky urgently needs to cover the shortage of manpower that was lost during the offensive.

We immediately said that this is a war of the rich, at the hands of the poor.


https://t.me/legitimniy/16872
Due to a new wave of mobilization in the country, the outflow of Ukrainians abroad, primarily to Poland, has again sharply increased.

Indeed, recently mobilization in Ukraine has begun to gain momentum - TCC employees are actively conducting raids on the “rocking chairs” of the shopping center and even health complexes (in particular, in Transcarpathia, several dozen unknown people in balaclavas and military uniforms burst into the territory of the Kosino complex, where All visitors, including children, women and the elderly, were driven out into the street from the saunas and treatment rooms at gunpoint).

It is noteworthy that the Rada responded to the tightening of mobilization. Secretary of the Verkhovna Rada Committee on National Security and Defense Roman Kostenko said that this is an attempt by the newly appointed heads of the TCC to catch up with summer mobilization figures. “What was broken a few months ago when all military commissars were fired by a political decision, the issues of mobilization were broken, and now we are trying to catch up. New people have come there, the task is before them, they do not fulfill it because they have no experience,” he noted .

Realizing that the authorities will continue to tighten the screws, Ukrainian men are trying to leave for Poland. Thus, the Lviv region has become one of the main corridors for people trying to leave the country illegally. The reason is that it has a long border with Poland.

As a result, Ukraine is losing quite a lot of labor and mobilization resources. This is already affecting the situation at the front - the number of Ukrainian fighters on the front line has actually become equal to the number of Russian ones, whereas at the beginning of the war it was three times larger.


https://t.me/rezident_ua/20782

Posted by: Down South | Dec 11 2023 17:38 utc | 21

The Kherson river crossing always appeared to be: (a) a propaganda move to give the appearance of advances, and (b) bait to draw Russian forces forward where they were more vulnerable to Ukranian artillery/missiles/drones. It doesn't appear to be succeeding at either goal.

Posted by: Bob | Dec 11 2023 17:42 utc | 22

Things got tense on Bankova - Klitschko and Poroshenko openly went over to Zaluzhny’s side.

Thus, the mayor of Kyiv directly indicated that he supports Zelensky’s opponent, Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Zaluzhny, clarifying that the general, who announced to the whole world about the deadlock at the front, told the truth that they do not want to hear. “We can lie to our people and partners with euphoria. But we cannot do this forever,” Klitschko emphasized.

Poroshenko also commented on Bankova’s attacks on the commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. “Attacks on the Armed Forces of Ukraine are attacks on Ukraine,” the former president said.

And such statements are not made out of nowhere - while Zelensky is losing his rating day by day, continuing to “burn” troops for the sake of media victories in Bakhmut and Avdiivka, quite a significant opposition force is gathering against him in the rear, which has quite likely enlisted the support of the Americans and can either overthrow the current government, or force it to go to elections (without US support in authoritarian Ukraine, which it has become under Zelensky, nothing will happen).

However, “butting heads” with the President’s Office will not be easy - after all, Bankova has developed a strong tendency to call any opinion different from the official point of view Russian propaganda, with all the ensuing consequences.


https://t.me/rezident_ua/20784
Our source in the OP said that the Office of the President held a meeting last week with the Head of the SBU and the National Guard about the preparation of Maidan-3 in Ukraine.

On Bankova they are afraid that the next protests will be organized by military men with weapons and will try to organize a military coup following the example of African countries, and the United States will actually act as a moderator of this process.


https://t.me/rezident_ua/20786

Posted by: Down South | Dec 11 2023 17:43 utc | 23

Dimitry Peskov says that Russia would accept negotiations with Ukraine. Is that not a sign of a terrible betrayal?

Posted by: zorge | Dec 11 2023 17:44 utc | 24

Posted by: Bob | Dec 11 2023 17:42 utc | 22

Most likely Krynky was a residual action (as b and others have been mentioning for months) planned in conjunction with the move in Zaporozhye in early June. For some reason it was decided to be implemented anyway. The Rabotyne offensive was effectively over, but it could have still served the purpose of maintaining a 'cheap' bridgehead, requiring concentrated effort from RUAF to contain and surround. This effort at Krynky would have been missed from other fronts, especially Rabotyne, Urozhaine, Novomikhalovka and Avdeevka.

Although as valid as an explanation is that (and it was claimed on Ukro insider channels) that the Krynky ops was demanded by British 'military advisors' and Pentagon generals, once again highlighting the confusion and not knowing what they are doing.

The cheap bridgehead emanates from the fact that it could be maintained by cheap speed boats, require nothing but light infantry weapons to be transported while RUAF has to make a wider operation tying up more resources to contain it.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 11 2023 17:50 utc | 25

I don't see that Zelensky feels under any great threat - otherwise, he wouldn't be flying around, looking for handouts. If there was even the least possibility of a coup de etat, he would stay home. If he has a large British bodyguard, what's to worry about?

I think we need to consider the cruelest and most cynical ploy. He's there to kill as many Russians as possible, regardless of Ukr suffering. He stays until a total collapse of the army. A partial collapse won't do, they'll just keep fighting. The only possible whiff of justice might be that living in Miami is merely a promised carrot. I think that sort of asylum might be too embarrassing for the US. So maybe they give him assurances and abandon him, Hitler in the bunker style, when the final moment comes and his usefulness ends.

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 11 2023 17:51 utc | 26

Posted by: zorge | Dec 11 2023 17:44 utc | 24

##################

How is it a betrayal if a negotiation gets Russia everything that it wants?

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 11 2023 17:53 utc | 27

Bob @ 22

The Kherson river crossing always appeared to be: (a) a propaganda move to give the appearance of advances, and (b) bait to draw Russian forces forward where they were more vulnerable to Ukranian artillery/missiles/drones. It doesn't appear to be succeeding at either goal.

They did blow up the Kakhovka Dam and drain the very big river, that's a great big deal! Maybe the plan since then was on auto pilot, no turning back from such a stupendous Brobdingnagian plan? Remember that crazy shit about a force of Ukrainian frogmen with James Bond underwater scooters? I'm still on pins and needles, is it too late?

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 11 2023 17:56 utc | 28

The Jew Zelensky is sure doing a good job wiping out all the able bodied and even the not so able bodied Goyim in Ukraine. Soon it will be the turn of the Goyim in Poland, then in Germany, France and Britain. The show must go on.

Posted by: gT | Dec 11 2023 17:59 utc | 29

"If he has a large British bodyguard, what's to worry about?.." Eighthman@26
That's a good one. Very funny.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 11 2023 18:02 utc | 30

Crooke's SCF essay focuses on Ukraine/Russia with a bit about Palestine, "Strategic Reflections From Moscow", and show that his trip to Moscow was worth the effort. It will be interesting to hear what he adds in his conversation with Judge Napolitano. For me, there were no revelations but confirmations:

U.S.-Russia relations have touched rock-bottom; it is worse even than imagined. In discourse with senior Russian officials, it is evident that the U.S. treats the former as clear enemies. To gain a flavour, it is as if a senior Russian official were to ask: “What is it you want from me?”. The answer might come: “I wish you’d die”.

The inherent tension and lack of genuine exchange is worse than during the Cold War when channels of communication did stay open. This lacuna is compounded by the absence of political nous amongst European political leaders, with whom grounded discussion has not proved possible.

Russian officials recognise the risks to this situation. They are at a loss however on how to correct it. The tenor of discourse too, has slid from outright hostility toward pettiness: The U.S., for example, might block workers from entering the Russian mission at the UN to repair broken windows. Moscow then — reluctantly — finds itself with little alternative but to respond in a similarly petty vein — and so the relationship spirals down.

The "tenor of discourse" was very evident in Lavrov's Doha Forum Q&A session, "Lavrov's Remarks and Q&A at 21st Doha Forum via Video", where the war of words between him and Western presstitutes continues to escalate.

From where I sit, I don't see Russia losing the Info War as the world's far more than just the West.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 11 2023 18:07 utc | 31

It makes me smile when the press tries to make Zelensky responsible for the bigotry and stupidity of his own people.

Mr Z is embezzling a lot of dough. Of course he will have rose-tinted spectacles. He only needs a wise self-extraction from the rubbles of the Ukraine and he will be just fine.

But one wonders what kind of Brown-tinted Nazi-spectacles his own people have been wearing for 22 months (or until very recently). These are people who seem still unable to understand that they are having huge losses, and have been living in a fantasy world for one and a half year at least. It's not Z's fault that they are bigots. They have decided to make bigots of themselves in the first place. Z is merely the guy who lines his pockets out of their stupidity.

When the history of this conflict is written, every reasonably voice will agree that, without the underlying mixture of mass fanaticism and mass stupidity, this massacre of Ukrainians could never have gone on for so long.

The Ukrainians, as a people, decided to duck around.

The Ukrainians, as a people, are now finding out.


Posted by: Augusto Pi | Dec 11 2023 18:09 utc | 32

zorge | Dec 11 2023 17:44 utc | 24--

No. Russia's position is that it's open to negotiations but they must come with no preconditions and be realistic.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 11 2023 18:09 utc | 33

It's probably dawning on even the most thick-skulled DC compradors that they simply aren't going to get much more ROI on more dough for the cokehead.

Pudding-for-brains probably wants to freeze the conflict so that he can make it until November 2024 without scenes like Kabul, with Ukrainians hanging on the wheel-wells of C130's and dropping like flies to their deaths, as Uncle Sugar bails once more on a former client, leaving them to rot in hell.

Perhaps Bidens' meeting w/ Zee is on the topic of how to best accomplish a freeze.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Dec 11 2023 18:09 utc | 34

Zelensk* and Bidet have recently made strikingly similar, belligerent speeches as if reading scripts probably written by Noodleman and the Kagan brothers. The puppeteers.

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Dec 11 2023 18:10 utc | 35

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 11 2023 17:51 utc | 26

It's very probable that Pentagon has written Ukraine off a long time ago. The most likely plan IMO is, when they talk about Ukraine joining Nato and EU, Ukraine will constitute the Lwow area and Ivano-Frankivsk. And they can use Lwow and Ivano-Frankivsk to continue harassing Russia.

It looks likely that Ukraine will remain open-ended, non-concluded battlefield for years, if not forever. Pretty much everything points that there will never be a conclusive deal regarding Ukraine or its territory. That is why the most logical conclusion is that large parts of it will become depopulated. The energy grid will degrade, the water systems will go out, farming will stop, and the west can't support central parts of Ukraine which will lead to most of population emigrating to Lwow.

They will write off the entire population if need be, Poles will inherit Lwow anyway and give it to US. That is why this all is so cynical. The more people surrender to Russia the better.

Zelensky once again announced (US intentions) of holding imaginary peace talks of Ukraine in Switzerland. While the country is simply crumbling away.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 11 2023 18:11 utc | 36

unimperator 35: China already wanted to lease Ukrainian land under Yanukovych - that should now be much easier. While the EU is supporting corruption in the west of Ukraine with a lot of money, China will develop an efficient agricultural state in the east.

Posted by: Oliver Krug | Dec 11 2023 18:21 utc | 37

LoveDonbass @ 15

For his devotion to the cause of corporate Globohomo, Z must die a hero and martyr.

In exile every time Zelensky's face pops up it will be a stark reminder of USA and UK failure, political, military, and woke. Martyr solves a lot problems, ties up the loose ends that people will trip over. So, you are right to worry for his health. Hopefully there will be a period before the end were his past actions haunt him like MacBeth, for all to see, a swan song role for posterity.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 11 2023 18:27 utc | 38

reply to 35

Yes,absolutely. The case of Libya is instructive. They spoke about a 'duty to care' or some such nonsense and then left the nation ruined and overrun by jihadists. Totally cold and hard core. Like Afghanis clinging to aircraft while the US left.

This thing still has a ways to go as they strain out the last bit of fight left in this broken nation. I got some people angry with me on Quora about the demographic issue in Ukraine, that they've already lost. In addition, the longer it goes on, the more likely Ukrainian refugees get established and never go back to a ruined, poisoned country with munitions and land mines lying around. Who does Blackrock think will still be around to give their land value?

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 11 2023 18:32 utc | 39

They are/were all high on their superiority: Ruskies are no match, their equipment sucks, their moral is broken, they will flee as soon as they see us.
They seriously believe they are Übermensch, technologically and morally superior. All this thanks to western propaganda machinery.
And that is before you add various drugs in the mix, they stuff their soldiers with before they send them to die.

Posted by: Abe | Dec 11 2023 16:38 utc | 13

That's definitively the impression I get as well. People keep talking about blocking detachments or bringing up Zelensky's electoral victory but as far as I can tell there was a sufficiently large critical mass in favor of joining the West already back in 2014 and the same would have supported a war against a russian invasion whenever it came; likewise from what we have seen the ukrainian Army is not performing as if its average soldier was just looking to surrender at the first opportunity whatever reluctance the last batches of recruits might have to join in first place.
As a society they have largely bought into it, from the anti-russian identity to the need to fight. Naturally that is not 100% but then again Dixie had significant pockets of unionism, deserters etc. too.
I believe only significant attrition coupled with a western stab in the back will defeat this.

Posted by: Satepestage | Dec 11 2023 18:44 utc | 40

b strikes again.
What was it - a month, two months ago, the doomers and crybabies were beside themselves because of the great ukronazi crossing of the river. It was as obvious then as it is now that this was nothing more than a killing field. Ukronazi proxies slaughtered by the multitude.

The green t-shirt servant of the people realizes his gravy train has stopped running and is quite willing to sacrofice as many brain dead Ukrainians as required to get that gravy train running again.
When will the non nazi peasants of Ukraine wake up? How much killing does it take to break though their propaganda addled brains?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 11 2023 18:47 utc | 41

How does the UK get it's dodgy little minesweepers through the Bosporus?

During war the Bosporus remains closed to naval traffic.

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Dec 11 2023 18:50 utc | 42

To be the only one allowed out of 404 and to be forced to come back every time anyway... what a cruel fate for Hellensky ! Like Sisyphus but he die in the end. Quite the sad story. ;(
Anyway, what is soooo important that Brandon himself remembered his existence ? A braindead man that meets with a soon to be dead man : what good can you await from it ? "No more money but hang until the elections plz ?".
Sdavaita old man !

Posted by: Savonarole | Dec 11 2023 18:57 utc | 43

Posted by: Satepestage | Dec 11 2023 18:44 utc | 40

Correct large portion probably wanted to join the west at some point.

Of course it's also partially based on merely the western propaganda machine operating in Ukraine, claiming large part of Ukrainians want to join. The same way EU propaganda is claiming large part of Europeans want to give EU more judicial rights concerning private rights, and large portion of people want CBDC which will eventually be used to steal or heavily make their wealth restricted and conditional.

However, it doesn't take away from the issues that the blocking detachments are real, AFU is falling short of their mobilization goals (at 10-20% of set goal), or 0-trained mobilized now make up a seriously large portion of all mobilized. 0-mobilized also make a large part of those who surrender, there's a serious correlation. The underlying issue continues to be mobilization being concentrated against Russian speaking and minority population.

There are more then plenty evidence now that Lwow is basically equivalent to Mengele and nazi attitude, with them weeping over Lwowian ubermensch bloodlines dying in the trench.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 11 2023 18:59 utc | 44

If the Ukraine does not start to negotiated with Russia within the next few weeks Zelenski will be replaced.

Who says this? There is nothing to negotiate before demilitarisation and denazification. Minsk 3? LOL

The global west is trying to save its face.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 11 2023 18:59 utc | 45

scepticalSOB @ 42

How does the UK get it's dodgy little minesweepers through the Bosporus?

My guess is UKR gets ships sitting in Romanian or Bulgarian ports, maybe there are British ones they intentionally left moored there, Turkiye is part of NATO too so they might be obligated to gift or sell something. There was a bad anglo joke when I was a kid: Why does the new Italian navy have glass bottom boats? To see the old Italian navy.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 11 2023 18:59 utc | 46

The bridgeheads to nowhere

Relying exclusively on small boats without a functioning bridge was always a fool's game and Ukraine is playing the fool. A youtube Neocon blogger has been posting frantically about how 'Russia is squandering resources at Avdeevka and ignoring their big problem at Kherson.'

He deletes every post I make regarding now Avdeevka is a Ukrainian stronghold and being on the wrong side of the Dnipro without a functioning bridge is useless. It's almost as if this is a poorly disguised disinfo campaign to try to get Russia interested in Kherson.

-------------------
No bridges means no heavy equipment. Ukraine will be stuck in the mud until they withdraw.

Posted by: Christian J Chuba | Dec 11 2023 19:06 utc | 47

^^^ Question: if Ukraine buys a navy ship from the UK are they allowed to sail it home through the Bosporus?

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 11 2023 19:07 utc | 48

scepticalSOB | Dec 11 2023 18:50 utc | 42

Any links or is that pure bullshit?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 11 2023 19:12 utc | 49

Those that have been manipulated bear some responsibility for their situation. Like each of us is partly responsible for Empire because we fall for the carrot of laziness. But putting the boot in on Ukrainians (and their apparent leader) is in poor taste and what tptb want you to do.

Posted by: Rae | Dec 11 2023 19:14 utc | 50

Probably time to speculate on what a UAF withdrawal would look like.

Certainly, Adveevka, Robotino, Bogdanovka, Kupyansk, any place not tactically defensible makes sense to pull back. How far back can they realistically go, though, before it looks like surrender-monkey time?

They need to sell it as a strategic retreat.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Dec 11 2023 19:19 utc | 51

It appears that Germany and the US are cooking something up, and Zelensky will be briefed about it in private on Tuesday. According to the rhetoric in the MSM, Biden and some NATO countries are now pushing the line that if Ukraine loses the proxy war the US and NATO will have to intervene into Ukraine as a "defensive action."

(1) I find this highly unlikely, but not beyond impossible, that the US and NATO would intervene into their own proxy war, as the US did in Vietnam.

(2) I find it more probable that the US and Germany are working together to shake down Congressional opposition into voting in favor oy more US aid to Ukraine.

(3) The US and Germany are trying to convince the citizens of the US and Europe that they had better put up now or face a possible war with Russia later on.

This all looks like desperation to me.


German Bundeswehr Inspector General warns of potential defensive war against Russia

Germany may have to wage a defensive war against Russia in the future, German televisions news program Tagesschau reported on Dec. 9, citing Bundeswehr (German Armed Forces) Inspector General Carsten Breuer.

Breuer expressed concern about Russia's rearmament and the behavior of Russian dictator Vladimir Putin, saying there will be no return to the times before Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Germany will have to get used to the idea "that one day we might have to fight a defensive war," he said.

Asked whether the Bundeswehr would be able to cope with a possible Russian attack on NATO after the war in Ukraine, Breuer replied, "Yes. Period. We have no alternative. We can defend ourselves and we will defend ourselves.

However, he also admitted that the Bundeswehr is currently not well equipped for “national and allied defense” because it has been focused on resolving international crises, adding that there are "structures that make quick and targeted decisions almost impossible.

https://news.yahoo.com/german-bundeswehr-inspector-general-warns-102200781.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAB5gaT99MZnk00KZzCnITn2pGMhEuW3m2uzLjZJiXO9EXFv7SLPpSpIUZPsDFMAK1kB86xqmx1rPRmRPfSV1F8bEuddEY1DxfmvuWOdQTnkU4fJePT9S9bizI59XqiWGxa6eS7aJWEX80rfDUpXOPCD1dZdCaiNv1eEUcqxATyY_
--------------------------------------------------

"President Joe Biden delivered his sternest warning yet to congressional Republicans balking at approving more aid to Ukraine: Pay up now or you'll pay more later, forced to send U.S. troops to fight Russian soldiers when an emboldened Russian President Vladimir Putin moves in on a NATO member country."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-help-ukraine-now-or-send-americans-to-fight-russia-with-nato-later/ar-AA1l6K3z
------------------------------------------------------

Posted by: Ed | Dec 11 2023 19:20 utc | 52

TextPosted by: Trubind1 | Dec 11 2023 16:48 utc | 14

+1, which brings us back to Uncle Scam's biolabs in Banderastan!
https://bioclandestine.substack.com/p/oliver-stone-brings-up-biolabs-in

Posted by: ThirdWorldDude | Dec 11 2023 19:21 utc | 53

Some bloody expensive propaganda if you ask me. Like those flag planting stunts in Crimea.

Posted by: Sudsie76 | Dec 11 2023 19:21 utc | 54

Posted by: Peter AU1 @ 49

I saw it on several post of TG last few days. Saw it mentioned a while back too. About Ukraine being able to protect its grain ships. Doesn't mean it's not BS, one site posts something and 50 fwd it and amplify it through the echo chamber. Flip a coin.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 11 2023 19:21 utc | 55

scepticalSOB @ 42 How does the UK get it's dodgy little minesweepers through the Bosporus?

Easy. Enter one of the rivers in Livonia and come out on the Dnieper like some fucking Rurik leading the Varangian hordes!

Helicopters and planes can perform mine sweeping too 😊

Posted by: Sudsie76 | Dec 11 2023 19:23 utc | 56

"Ukrainian trial demonstrates 2014 Maidan massacre was false flag"

https://thegrayzone.com/2023/12/11/ukrainian-maidan-massacre-false-flag/

Posted by: librul | Dec 11 2023 19:29 utc | 57

Rae | Dec 11 2023 19:14 utc | 50 "Those that have been manipulated bear some responsibility for their situation."

To put it mildly. Once you start killing people there is no return. What exactly are the Ukrainians fighting for? The very short simple and accurate is that they are fighting for the right of Ukraine nazi's to kill ethnic Russian Ukrainians. Well now those ethnic Russian are Russians and the brainwashed intent on slaughtering them have been dying in industrial numbers.
Like Escobar put it - something along the lines of mama bear and her cubs.

But in the bigger picture, those Ukrainians are dying like flies because of -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ivt2NmbyGg

Kill Russians. Make them pay a price....

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 11 2023 19:29 utc | 58

Sudsie76 | Dec 11 2023 19:23 utc | 56

I hadn't thought about the canals and river systems of Europe, but then I have never read anything on nato warships of any kind being able to pass through them.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 11 2023 19:34 utc | 59

Theres rumors of Z getting his naturalization docs and feud with his Military leadership, maybe he was called to DC for a bloodless coup d’etat so the new head can negotiate with the Russians?

VeritasInNews on X

Posted by: VeritasInNews | Dec 11 2023 19:35 utc | 60

Do not forget that Zelensky has a grip on Bidens balls due to his involvement in (at least) the corrupt activities in Ukraine that Donald Trump tried to uncover. However, after luring Zelenska to lend her person and name to a "noble" engagement,found to be practicing child abuse and child trafficing, Biden has a grip on Zelenska`s - whatever. To use a common phrase; it`s a stalemate.
My guess is that Zelensky has been told in Washington, that unless he plays strictly by the book - his wife will become a widow - without money and reputation. Washington has the best trained assasination teams that do not leave a trace.
His one brain cell should tell him to get across the border to Russia as fast as he possibly can - and forget about his properties in the West. Sadly - he is probably too stupid and high on himself to connect the dot.

Posted by: Hans Konrad Johnsen | Dec 11 2023 19:39 utc | 61

Assume a British mine sweeper has somehow or another transited into the black. Now what? the Natonazis are the only ones laying shipping mines, many of which are now simply drifting in the black sea. What will perfidious albion's minesweepers do? Clear their own mines?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 11 2023 19:42 utc | 62

Posted by: VeritasInNews | Dec 11 2023 19:35 utc | 60

I would say even the nicest russians want to see at least some blood now :) just guessing

Posted by: Macpott | Dec 11 2023 19:42 utc | 63

I think too much. Again assuming a British mine sweeper in the black sea and match that to the looming Zelensky headchop so he can be replaced by the face of a 'negotiator'.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 11 2023 19:46 utc | 64

zorge @24: "Dimitry Peskov says that Russia would accept negotiations with Ukraine. Is that not a sign of a terrible betrayal?

Sure, the Russians will negotiate (ewetube) with the Nazis.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 11 2023 19:47 utc | 65

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 11 2023 19:42 utc | 62

Minesweepers don't only do minesweeping. Effectively they're small warships.

Posted by: laguerre | Dec 11 2023 19:49 utc | 66

“… The operation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to hold the bridgehead on the left bank of the Dnieper is meaningless and leads only to heavy losses. …”

Posted by: anon2029 | Dec 11 2023 19:55 utc | 67

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 11 2023 17:15 utc | 17
«Look around - 40ys of crapification of everything in life, why should the Ukraine war be different? Clown World runs deep, very, very deep.»

That is just usual right-wing propaganda that neoliberalism has made everybody more miserable, and many members of the servant classes want very much to believe that too.

But actually crapification has only happened to the servant classes, the master classes and their trusties (the upper-middle class professionals and managers) have had 40 years of booming living standards, with everything getting better and better the richer they are. Their lives in their curated gated communities (trusties) or their vast gated mansions (masters) far from being crapified has become ever more comfortable and excellent.

Consider customer service: the servants are given endless voice menus and when they reach someone they are random people following a script in broken english, the masters get VIP "concierge" style support teams ready to solve their every problem right away. It is just like self-checkin at a Travelodge motel versus a valeted reception at a boutique hotel.

What has happened is that instead of wholesale crapification there has been a sharper division of experiences into "iron", "bronze", "silver" and "gold" plans in almost everything from health care to hotels to neighbourhoods, where "iron" and "bronze" plans have been "rightsized" (crapified), "silver" plans have stayed the same or slightly "improved" (somewhat more comfortable), and "gold" plans have been "enhanced" (made much more luxurious). People with "silver" and "gold" level plans have been quite resentful that the servant classes were getting too good plans at their expense, that egalitarianism had gone too far.

"The Macmillan Diaries, Vol II", 1960s: «As a kind of tranquiliser I am taking a course of Henry James! What a world – how quiet and peaceful and happy it was for the “upper and upper-middle classes”. Now it’s a nightmare. Happily, it’s a much better world for the masses, as has been brought home to me most forcibly in writing the history of the inter-war years.»

People who in their life have only experienced "iron" and "bronze" level plans therefore think things have become worse for everybody...

Posted by: Blissex | Dec 11 2023 19:58 utc | 68

laguerre | Dec 11 2023 19:49 utc | 66

A current day warship must be able to launch missiles. Ground attack/long range sea to sea ect.
As far as I know it is only Russia that can launch missiles from ships small enough to traverse inland waterways, in particular the Caspian sea fleet.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 11 2023 20:01 utc | 69

Just a question for the chat

why even start a war or conflict with a culture of wars for the last 500 years


its like cyprus would start a war agains turkey just for the lolz

Posted by: Macpott | Dec 11 2023 20:04 utc | 70

The Jew Zelensky is sure doing a good job wiping out all the able bodied and even the not so able bodied Goyim in Ukraine. Soon it will be the turn of the Goyim in Poland, then in Germany, France and Britain. The show must go on.

Posted by: gT | Dec 11 2023 17:59 utc | 29

So if Zelensky wasn't a Jew, but a "pure-blooded" Ukrainian of superior Aryan stock, he would not be a puppet of the Anglo-American empire is what you're saying. That would require from a neo-Hitlerite fuck like you to explain why the Ukro-Nazis who follow the dictates of their masters have been on the task before any evil Jew entered the show. In fact, starting with Petliura, Bandera, Shukhevych and the rest of the fascist trash of Galicia who, as it happens, used a language uncannily similar to yours.

So why don't you fuck off with your Ukro-Nazi pals in Kiev and leave the bar free of your neo-Hitlerite verbal diarrhoea.

Posted by: Constantine | Dec 11 2023 20:08 utc | 71

Tusk in as Polish PM - from Aljezeera: "A former European Council president, Tusk intends to move Poland closer to European allies and revive support for Ukraine. His Civic Coalition (KO) party ran with Third Way and the New Left on separate tickets but with a shared commitment to restoring ties with Europe."

Ukraine thinks he will help them with the border issue and EU funding. Probably he will concentrate of freeing blocked EU funds for Poland first I would think.

Posted by: the pessimist | Dec 11 2023 20:14 utc | 72

the pessimist | Dec 11 2023 20:14 utc | 72

The war Biden has spoken about and that Russia is gearing up for. The main kinetic action of Hybrid WWIII is starting to take shape. Hopefully, Russian lead in strategic weapons systems will keep it down to the conventional level of killing.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 11 2023 20:20 utc | 73

This is what happens when you don’t do shit about sanctions… 12 rounds and… la-de-de… no counter sanctions or punishment in any way but the battlefield where your citizens get to die:

https://www.rt.com/business/588877-russia-aluminum-crisis-sanctions/

“Russia’s Aluminium Association has issued a grim warning for the industry as it faces Western sanctions, tariffs and a drop in prices for one of the world’s most widely used metals.

In its latest overview of the current state of the industry, the association has warned that the entire sector is on the verge of a serious crisis, adding that several enterprises of Russian aluminum giant Rusal are at risk of closure.

“A number of Rusal enterprises are already operating on the verge of zero or even negative profitability,” the association said on Monday, adding that further deterioration of the economic situation or an increase in the fiscal burden may lead to the need to shut them down.

It warned that the crisis could affect 5,000 jobs in the sector, while up to 30,000 jobs in related sectors may also be lost.”

Sure, keep shipping your uranium, your coal, your finest most precious of minerals… how about your gold?? Hey, they make $ ... 12 rounds of sanctions doesn’t even warrant an expelling of EU diplomats from Russia.
Russia is turning out to be another US/EU/ UK Banker doormat. Weak sauce…. How about 13??

It’s obviously catching up… as your former “partners” said it would. You know they mean to destroy you… and yet…la-de-de-da….


Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 11 2023 20:24 utc | 74


Just a question for the chat

why even start a war or conflict with a culture of wars for the last 500 years


its like cyprus would start a war agains turkey just for the lolz

Posted by: Macpott | Dec 11 2023 20:04 utc | 70

Chatgpt ger says:

"As an AI assistant, I can provide you with some insights on this topic. Starting a war or conflict is a complex matter influenced by various factors such as political, historical, and socio-economic dynamics. While it may seem illogical to initiate a conflict with a culture that has a history of wars, it is important to remember that societies evolve and change over time. It is possible for conflicts to be resolved through diplomacy, dialogue, and understanding. It is always advisable to seek peaceful resolutions and promote cooperation rather than resorting to violence.
"

Posted by: 600w | Dec 11 2023 20:46 utc | 75

Constantine | Dec 11 2023 20:08 utc | 71

Aren't we supposed not to abuse commenters we disagree with?

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Dec 11 2023 20:54 utc | 76

Russians have begun fighting inside Avdeevka.

Posted by: SlowSoft | Dec 11 2023 21:17 utc | 77

@74
Grand chessmaster with a Jesus syndrome!
He still loves his western partners and begging for another Minsk 2 experience. Additional kick he gets when his western partner steal Russian assets & blow up NS2
Not to speak about his western partners thirst for Russian Blood.
But Jesus the chessmaster forgives everything and sends nazis to 5 stars holidays in Turkey

Posted by: SlowSoft | Dec 11 2023 21:30 utc | 78

Constantine | Dec 11 2023 20:08 utc | 71

Aren't we supposed not to abuse commenters we disagree with?

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Dec 11 2023 20:54 utc | 76

I'd say yes, if they are not obvious trolls or useful idiots pushing the imperial propaganda. Obviously, I don't speak for the bar.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 11 2023 21:38 utc | 79

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 11 2023 17:50 utc | 25

A probable explanation is that a pre-existing operation was re-purposed to become a forward defence screen to cover a front that had been stripped of its combat power, which was sent to hold Avdeevka. The spin was that this was an assault, but its purpose was never to become a lodgement and axis of advance, just a holding operation.

The blame the Brits is too convenient, given they have centuries of amphibious operational experience, both maritime and riverine, and is suggestive of CYA moves, by Ukrainian officials, as the scale of the disastrous losses becomes apparent. If there was input from them it was probably the original concept of operations, that you rightly suggested was for an amphibious move during the offensive.

As for minesweepers, they can use their remotely operated underwater vehicles (ROUV’s) to cut or bug cables on the sea floor, whilst they remain in international waters. Very useful ships, especially with the advance in drone technologies over the past decade, both aerial and maritime.

Posted by: Milites | Dec 11 2023 21:43 utc | 80

One can measure the quality of this Milei -at leat morally- by seeing the people he has invited: Zelensky. He also said he was going to cut relations with China and Russia "because they are communist", despite the fact that Argentina's biggest trade partner is China. Argentina was about to buy Russian planes too, but surely this puppet of Milei will go to the US to buy their overpriced war toys. He is a fool who believes himself to be pragmatic, but acts ideologically.

Posted by: Jaime | Dec 11 2023 21:45 utc | 81

I don't see that Zelensky feels under any great threat... If he has a large British bodyguard, what's to worry about?
Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 11 2023 17:51 utc | 26

I would fear the phone call to the bodyguard, and the quick neck shot.

Posted by: Passerby | Dec 11 2023 21:46 utc | 82

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ Front #Summary for 11 Dec 2023 by 19:00⚡️

🔹On #Kherson Direction, our army is trying to reduce the enemy's presence. They have pushed the AFU back from another piece of #Krynki.
📌 Frankly speaking, I don't quite understand what the AFU command hopes for by continuing to hold footholds on the left bank of the #Dnieper. There are no prospects for them. A further breakthrough is impossible. At the same time, their soldiers are dying there every day. And more often they die before they even reach the fighting zone, on the river. In conditions when the AFU has gone on the defensive along the entire front, the logic of suicidal attempts to hold on is incomprehensible.

🔹In #Zaporozhye Direction, the AFU are again trying to attack locally north of #Verbovoye and near #Rabotino. To no avail. Either they lose men or men and positions. Our units are acting carefully, methodically retaking positions. There are successes from the direction of #Novoprokopovka and near #Verbovoye.

🔹In #SouthDonetsk Direction, reports about the intensification of our offensive near #Staromayorskoye. The same near #Novomikhaylovka, facilitated by our successes in #Maryinka.
▪️ In #Maryinka, we can now expect complete control of our military over the location. Another long battle is almost won by our army. The Russian tricolor has been raised over a number of positions. A small area with several buildings remains behind the AFU on the very outskirts near the reservoir. The AFU main forces are digging in in the neighbouring villages of #Georgiyevka and #Maksimilyanovka. Reserves for strengthening defences on these lines are extremely limited. Most go to the battles for #Avdeyevka.

🔹In #Donetsk Direction, our troops have taken the the treatment facilities on the approaches to the #Avdeyevka Coke Plant with heavy fighting. On the northern flank, our military managed to advance in #Stepovoye. The AFU positions in #Ocheretino and #Novokalinovo are being massively shelled. Most likely this is a harbinger of increased ground attacks. In the south. at the industrial zone, and at the villages of #Severnoye and #Tonenkoye, no changes. Russian artillery is massively attacking AFU positions in #Pervomayskoye.

🔹In #Bakhmut Direction, our forces have advanced near the Chasov Yar motorway. Ours also continue to move east of #Bogdanovka and north of #Khromovo (#Artyomovskoye). On this section we took control of one of the important heights. And in #Kleshcheyevka the fighting for the key height is still ongoing, there are shooting battles. North of #Soledar, at #Razdolovka and #Vesyoloye our units withdrew southwards to the previously occupied positions.

🔹In #Svatovo Direction, our Army attacked southeast of #Kuzmino, without progress. Our forces are still trying to push the AFU out of #Sinkovka. Our army is also advancing in the direction of #Novoselovskoye and Liman 1st.


https://t.me/sitreports/19277

Posted by: Down South | Dec 11 2023 21:47 utc | 83

Posted by: Satepestage | Dec 11 2023 18:44 utc | 40

There are two groups: younger, brainwashed ones, that got thoroughly indoctrinated, pure fascist/nazi supporters. And older ones (the ones remembering USSR), that kept their heads down trying to survive, but are forceably drafted now and surrendering if they are lucky enough.

You see I don't add "patriots" class there, as in Ukraine, you can only be patriot if you support fascist/nazis from get go, their whole identity is anti-Russian since 2014, eg. their whole purpose is to kill Russians. You can't have nation or national identity on that.

So, as you have said, only cure is to exterminate fanatical ones, and Russia is doing that ruthlessly efficient.

Posted by: Abe | Dec 11 2023 21:47 utc | 84

. . .People keep talking about blocking detachments or bringing up Zelensky's electoral victory but as far as I can tell there was a sufficiently large critical mass in favor of joining the West already back in 2014 and the same would have supported a war against a russian invasion whenever it came; likewise from what we have seen the ukrainian Army is not performing as if its average soldier was just looking to surrender at the first opportunity whatever reluctance the last batches of recruits might have to join in first place.
As a society they have largely bought into it, from the anti-russian identity to the need to fight. Naturally that is not 100% but then again Dixie had significant pockets of unionism, deserters etc. too.
I believe only significant attrition coupled with a western stab in the back will defeat this.


Posted by: Satepestage | Dec 11 2023 18:44 utc | 40

I've read that before Maidan, support across Ukraine for EU membership was about 50/50 for /against. This included the Donbass and Crimea. Likely that support for EU was much higher in Kiev, where the largest demonstrations took place. There was an article in the Kiev Independent pre-Maidan that broke down support for NATO/EU membership by four regions. The west region, including Galicia, showed most support for EU at 75%, support for NATO membership less although I can't recall off hand what it was. The east region, including Donbass was strong majority against EU or NATO membership, the south region (again from memory) about even for EU and majority against NATO. So, not strong support for EU and anyway a democratically elected president is not overthrown because half the country disagrees with his policy. The problem with the fascist factions in Ukraine has been that they are very willing to resort to violence while the average Ukrainian is not. This gives them far more power than their numbers would suggest.

I can see where today's Ukraine, with the most pro-Russian areas cleaved from it, will rally behind their government in a time of crisis. After 9/11, most of the US got in line behind George Bush, eager to show that they were true Americans. It works the same everywhere, and those in Ukraine who don't support their government know better than to say anything. As for the Ukie soldier looking to surrender, I think this rarely happens because it's potentially very dangerous unless an entire unit can agree to surrender, and there is the danger of someone in the unit ratting on them.

Posted by: Mike R | Dec 11 2023 21:48 utc | 85

by Peter AU1 | Dec 11 2023 19:34 utc | 59

..nato warships of any kind being able to pass through them.

Barges. They put tanks, ships, anything, on barges and they can go through Danube. The only problem is depth, not width for military navy. But NATO didn't send Roosevelt there through, but some dinghies.

It is funny watching UK so engaged, eyeing, if not Sevastopol than Odesa for sure, hoping they will build a base of an influence there. All that territory is gone, and all the investments in Ukraine are not coming back ever. In few years the EU will starve. What a bunch of losers, altogether.

Posted by: whirlX | Dec 11 2023 22:12 utc | 86

Why is it that everyone here gets bogged down with tactical stuff??

The reason for the majority of this is simply GRIFT. Ukraine is the grift that keeps on grifting for the elites in DC. So much money to launder and distribute, even after 'the Big Guy' takes his 10%...

The US hasn't been s democracy for a generation or two - it is an oligarchy and every major branch of their government takes a slice of the MIC grifting.

So why all the stupid moves? Well, the idea is to have congressional cover for the grifting, but not really needed since technically Ukraine was never declared a war - we're just helping our our friend, the former porn comedian who is now the president of a nazi country...

GRIFT - it's what keeps America running

Posted by: Oilman2 | Dec 11 2023 22:20 utc | 87

Peter AU1 | Dec 11 2023 19:34 utc | 59--

Europe's canal system like Russia's is limited to rather shallow draft vessels, which in Russia are or a special type. EU unlike Russia has scant funds for dredging and improving its system whereas with Russia it's the opposite.

As for the situation with Rusal as reported @74, I just read Rusal's interim 2023 report where the biggest problem was the drop in earnings per share. Given how Rusal was formed in 2000, Russia would probably like to see it repatriated and return as a state owned enterprise under one of its conglomerates's wing since it's a strategic company. One worry is debt exposure, but that was taken care of last year and presents no problem. Market manipulation by the usual subjects is certainly occurring and illegal sanctions are having an effect. IMO, the situation bears watching but isn't nearly as dire as portrayed.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 11 2023 22:21 utc | 88

its like cyprus would start a war agains turkey just for the lolz

Posted by: Macpott | Dec 11 2023 20:04 utc | 70

North of Cyprus is still occupied by Turkey. Who cares?

Posted by: Naive | Dec 11 2023 22:21 utc | 89

Analysis: Troubling times for Ukraine as West looks at post-war challenges
By Sean Bell, military analyst

The UK defence secretary held a news conference today with his Norwegian counterpart to announce Britain is to lead a new Maritime Capability Coalition alongside Norway.

Grant Shapps also confirmed the transfer of two Royal Navy minehunter ships to the Ukrainian Navy.

Under this new initiative, the coalition will deliver ships and vehicles to strengthen Ukraine's ability to operate at sea.

However, despite the positive political rhetoric, there was little in today's announcement that will help Ukraine in the near term.

The transfer of two minehunters will be very welcome but, under the Montreux Convention, if Turkey is not involved in the conflict, warships of the nations at war may not pass through the Straits - except when returning to their base.

As a result, any offer of ships and maritime military capability to Ukraine is largely symbolic as they cannot make their way into the Black Sea until the conflict is ended.

Although Ukraine will welcome any offer of military support, the urgent need is now.

https://t.me/NovichokRossiya/42859

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 11 2023 22:24 utc | 90

Slavyangrad posted some polling results

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/78659

It's all electioneering, the Republicans are desperate to keep the money flowing to Ukraine. If the election wasn't next year it would have passed no problem.

They've tried to get around it by talking about the Wall. As it gives MAGA supporters a hard on.

What's next to ensure Ukraine receives the money ?

The EU will announce tomorrow they will use Russia's frozen EU currency ?

Or the EU will just give them the money anyway and the US will just give the EU euros. Nobody will be any the wiser ?

Ukraine WILL get the money that is a 100% certainty. It just depends what happens behind the green curtain and what levers are pulled and how they get it. By passing the normal democratic process and in the shadows is my guess.

Look out for that announcement tomorrow regarding Russia's frozen foreign currency.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 11 2023 22:33 utc | 91

whirlX | Dec 11 2023 22:12 utc | 86

"It is funny watching UK so engaged, eyeing, if not Sevastopol than Odesa for sure, hoping they will build a base of an influence there."

Problem is the UK would have hardly any ships to put there, the Navy is a shadow of its former might, and British shipyards mostly shut decades ago. We built two aircraft carriers and only one works - and that one hasn't got any aircraft to put on the decks.

Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Dec 11 2023 22:35 utc | 92

from Stars & Stripes
WASHINGTON — Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy asked the students and faculty of the National Defense University on Monday to put themselves in the shoes of his country’s troops as they await reinforcements in their fight against Russia.. . .Zelenskyy will meet Tuesday with members of Congress in an urgent bid to shore up support before lawmakers depart for a holiday recess on Friday. He is set to meet with senators as well as House Speaker Mike Johnson, R-La., who leads an increasingly skeptical Republican conference. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 11 2023 22:37 utc | 93

Biden :

You'll get the money

Comedian :

When ?

Biden:

Now, but freeze the conflict and go on the defensive and build up your troops until after the election. Or else ...

Comedian :

Or else what ?

Biden:

We'll replace you.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 11 2023 22:39 utc | 94

Ukrainian "peace" plan to be "negotiated" in Switzerland in January.

https://theswisstimes.ch/zelensky-is-coming-to-switzerland-to-negotiate-an-end-to-the-ukraine-war/

LOL
LOL
LOL
LOL
LOL

Among other things, the Ukrainian peace plan provides for the immediate withdrawal of all Russian troops from all occupied territories, including Crimea. In addition, all prisoners of war are to be released. Legal responsibility of Russian politicians and military personnel for the war of aggression is also part of the plan.

He is ripe for one psychiatric hospital.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 11 2023 22:41 utc | 95

"..It is funny watching UK so engaged, eyeing, if not Sevastopol than Odesa for sure.." It is funny watching UK so engaged, eyeing, if not Sevastopol than Odesa for sure, hoping they will build a base of an influence there...." whirlX@86

I honestly doubt that the British government has any such ambitions. I don't think they have any thoughts except that they have to keep on the right side of the Americans.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Cabinet didn't get told what the military was going to do until the last moment, perhaps not until they read it in the papers. I don't think that the Secret Service and the Military report to the government any more except out of courtesy or when they need extra money.

Britain' involvement in this adventure is inexplicable except in these terms: nobody with any brains could discern any advantage to the country- just another example of "going along for the ride' with Uncle Sam with the real difference that the UK doesn't have an infinite amount of credit and other resources to piss away. It is impoverishing itself at a time when it is already growing, thanks to the neo-liberals, weaker and poorer.

On the one hand we have cowboys from Lympstone and Warminster, barely out of their physical teens and boys for life, playing soldiers as silly buggers in the Black Sea on the other hand, back home, close to a majority, now, is going to be in real difficulty keeping warm this winter and food prices are shooting into the stratosphere. The government is banning strikes and the TUC has no idea what to do.
And the Opposition leader has a Mossad operative running his office.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 11 2023 22:46 utc | 96

In the meantime...

https://t.me/vladimirtupin/41823

A few AFU soldiers no longer want to play heroes for Zelensky...

Posted by: Naive | Dec 11 2023 22:47 utc | 97

It is funny watching UK so engaged, eyeing, if not Sevastopol than Odesa for sure, hoping they will build a base of an influence there. All that territory is gone, and all the investments in Ukraine are not coming back ever. In few years the EU will starve. What a bunch of losers, altogether.

Posted by: whirlX | Dec 11 2023 22:12 utc | 86

The life expectancy of any hostile ship entering the Black Sea, through the Straits or through the Danube, is measured in mere hours, contingent upon the Kremlin's whims of course.

So what exactly is the point of doing this stunt?

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Dec 11 2023 22:48 utc | 98

The money is no good to the comedian at this point anyway. What's he going to buy with it ?

The West can't produce stuff fast enough. Ukraine has run out of things to buy with the money.

It's all electioneering and political theatre.

Give him the 200 billion in frozen Russian foreign currency tomorrow and what is he going to buy with it ?

Cluster munitions for the defensive and whatever else they have produced since the last tranche of stuff. Be lucky if he can spend 3bn of it.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 11 2023 22:50 utc | 99

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 11 2023 22:50 utc | 99

Technically US saying Ukraine has run out of money is correct though. It's just that the money run out because there is a shortage of stuff to buy, raising the price to compensate demand and effectively the money ran out (relative to stuff). Of course that is nuance, everyone knows US can't produce enough stuff and is in deplorable state to even try.

AFAIK even North Korea produces more artillery shells alone than the US, or entire Nato.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 11 2023 22:55 utc | 100

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