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December 29, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-320
Comments
Zelensky needs to go before Ukraine collapses
Unwilling to engage in negotiations with Russia, president’s a candidate for a coup d’etat
by Stephen Bryen / Asia Times
i’ve been expecting Zelensky to get Diemed out for some time.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 29 2023 15:58 utc | 2
Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 29 2023 15:58 utc | 2
###############
Zelensky will leave no sooner than Russia wants him to leave. Until the goals of the SMO have been reached, Zelensky remains a tremendous asset to the Russian side.
Heaven forbid that someone competent or popular comes to power. That would be a disaster. I think it is too soon to sign an armistice, even if a lot of territory gets handed to the Russians (which I am not sure NATO can afford).
I reckon another 12 months should finish the job properly.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 29 2023 16:02 utc | 3
Zelensky needs to go before Ukraine collapses
Unwilling to engage in negotiations with Russia, president’s a candidate for a coup d’etat
by Stephen Bryen / Asia Times
Posted by: b | Dec 29 2023 15:48 utc | 1
As I mentioned in the previous thread, the 0.7 FR would imply a 25 million current population and 4 million “fit” men over 17.
For a 16% KIA ratio (end ratio for WWI both germany and France) that would mean 650.000 AFU KIA (that just might be 4 months away at 25k a month)
Yes, to avoid full capitulation Z must leave and let someone else pretend the concessions they get are a “win”.
Now there is something else that makes me wonder, as someone mentioned in the general thread, with ukraine and ME already occupying the US, North Korea making threats (and China issuing warnings about Taiwan) could be a perfect storm.
What would be better than forcing the US to fight 4 or 5 wars at the same time?
Forcing the US to fight 4 or 5 wars at the same time, convinced that they could wrap up the biggest one.
Negotiations, redeployments, and then suddenly, the war rages on to total capitulation…
So Ukraine enters negotiations, Iran keeps things in low gear seemingly wanting to pass this war, and when things are getting warmer in the pacific and means are transferred…
Posted by: Newbie | Dec 29 2023 16:04 utc | 4
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 29 2023 16:02 utc | 3
no doubt Russia would like to keep him on awhile, but Diem got killed by his allies, which I think would be the case with Zelensky. If Russia got win of a specific plot, they could tip him off somehow I guess.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 29 2023 16:11 utc | 5
Facing cold, cruel reality is not something which is acceptable or even conceivable within the collective Waste. It’s been a long, easy ride for the creatures in the Di$trict of Corruption and for the Bank$ters who own them. Right before their beclouded eyes, the world is rapidly transforming into a multipolarity which they cannot and will not comprehend or come to terms with.
There is no Plan B. Rude awakenings loom.
Ukraine is a spent force…fast becoming an amalgam of excuse-makers and finger-pointers. The hopes of much of their “leadership” is to escape the sinking ship with full possession of their ill-gotten gains. The worst of them will be ultimately hunted down by Russian agents…so they will require a lot of personal protection bodyguards as well as secretive hideouts. Fate and Karma will get them one way or another.
Ultimately, there will be no escape for either the fascistic Banderites or their Talmudist Agenda co-conspirators.
Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 29 2023 16:13 utc | 6
LoveDonbass | Dec 29 2023 16:02 utc | 3–
IMO, there’re no competent or likeable people in Ukraine with the balls to challenge the Nazis at this point. It’s similar to the Zionists in that the government is sold on the current policy regardless of Netanyahu, although that policy currently enjoys public backing. If the Ukies are truly serious about raising another 500K troops, then the college deferment will need to go as that one Class has the best quality bodies. Public sentiment about the war is seen directly in the resistance to being pressganged. If the deferment stays, Class War will ensue.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 29 2023 16:18 utc | 7
College deferment could not be used because that would affect the sons of politicians, high military officers and oligarchs’ top cadres. They are in this war to grab Western treasure, not to lose their sons.
Posted by: Johan Kaspar | Dec 29 2023 16:31 utc | 8
i agree with karlof1’s first sentence… ain’t no one who is going to go up against this nazi freaks and it is too late for the west to green light someone who would.. and it is much the same with the leadership in israel too.. they have gone too far to the right to change course here..
Posted by: james | Dec 29 2023 16:32 utc | 9
USA does not want to get its hands dirty arranging to kill Zelensky and he is surrounded by fanatics who will protect him so long as he refuses to compromise with Russia and kill him if he does compromise. So Zelensky stays, to Russia’s benefit.
Other than fanatics, Ukrainian people are too stupid and lazy to rebel. And the fanatics have no reason to rebel as long as war continues.
Most soldiers are not fanatics, and while they are stupid, they are only stupid because of limited brains, not because of inaccurate information. They know the real situation. And as the situation gets increasingly hopeless, many will desert, taking weapons with them back to the villages and small towns they came from, so able to defend themselves against SBU and punisher troops.
Mass desertion and replacement of deserters by alcoholics and cripples in wheelchairs and other useless troops means collapse of the army’s potential to fight, allowing a big Russian breakthrough.
Big breakthrough finally causes Ukrainian people to face reality. Some opportunist in SBU or military will then stage a coup to salvage what they can.
If the Russian breakthrough is overwhelming, Putin can probably negotiate a deal for independent Galicia and the rest of Ukraine becomes a demilitarized Russian puppet state. Fanatics retreat to Galicia with their weapons and then it becomes the responsibility of Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania to deal with this heavily armed and impoverished rogue state on their borders. Remainder of Ukraine will be very easily to control by turning the money spigot on and off as needed (rouble spigot instead of dollar spigot).
Posted by: anonposter | Dec 29 2023 16:36 utc | 10
Yulia Tymoshenko claimed recently that there were 100s of thousands in the security forces and police that are not currently subject to conscription. Assuming this is true, one can surmise that unless or until these people turn against the government there will be no mass uprisings in Ukraine. Uf these forces are conscripted the there will be a breakdown of social control.
Posted by: the pessimist | Dec 29 2023 16:50 utc | 11
Posted by: the pessimist | Dec 29 2023 16:50 utc | 11
i don’t think it would be a mass uprising, Zaluzhnyi is a lifelong neonazi from what I’ve read, and as such would have more support among them than Zelensky–that has always been more of a marriage of convenience. as to the US “dirtying its hands” it has always been willing to do that, usually by using proxies. and Zelensky makes a convenient scapegoat for the failure of the proxy war. ultimately, it won’t make any difference, even if a competent leader who still supports the US and the war took power, there is nothing to be done. The war ends when Russia wants it to. as somebody mentioned, it likely doesn’t want to have to deal with problems of a Ukrainian rump state yet, more attrition in order. also gives NATO cracks more time to widen.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 29 2023 16:57 utc | 12
Tu-22M3 down?
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1740733225771913316
Posted by: Apollyon | Dec 29 2023 16:59 utc | 13
Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 29 2023 16:11 utc | 5
###############
I wouldn’t be surprised if the Russians helped keep Zelensky alive. He is that valuable of an asset at this point.
Outside observers can get emotional and hate different characters in any conflict. Which is unproductive and leads to a loss of focus on the details that matter.
The people running the Russian side are smart enough to see this dispassionately and strive for rational action.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 29 2023 17:09 utc | 14
Over 100,000 russian Orcs liquidated…heheheh
Posted by: Zionist american | Dec 29 2023 17:30 utc | 15
apparently the wests’ funding of ukraine’s paychecks and pensions is now doubtful. once the teat runs dry zelensky is a dead man walking. which will be faster, zelensky’s sprint to the airport or a bullet to the back of his head?
Posted by: jstert | Dec 29 2023 17:55 utc | 16
>as to the US “dirtying its hands” it has always been willing to do that, usually by using proxies.
Not in this case. Risk is far too great of bad publicity against Biden if USA can be implicated in any way with killing Zelensky. Coup is different. USA can easily bring about a coup in the next few months by just keeping the money/weapons spigot off. In fact, turning it off and putting all these cease-fire articles in the NYTimes is giving “green-light” for coup. But coup will be from security forces, SBU and other national police plus military, meaning fanatics still in charge, so war continues.
Posted by: anonposter | Dec 29 2023 17:57 utc | 17
@Petri Krohn | Dec 28 2023 19:39 utc | 58 from the previous Ukrainian article
Russia needs strong, independent neighbors
I have long said that Russia needs strong, independent neighbors that pursue their selfish national interests. It despises neighbors that reject their own national interests and instead allow overseas masters to exploit their countries for geopolitical games.
Only problem is that next to no countries out there can ever fit the “strong, independent” criterion except Russia. The US can be strong, but never independent of resources from other countries, the US just takes what it wants from other countries (Neo-Colonialism). China can be strong but also never independent of resources from other countries, China currently has to purchase what it wants from other countries. Most countries simply do no have the resources or the military to be truly independent, so always have their policies decided for them by other countries. Russia is the only true strong and independent country out there, dependent on no-one for nothing.
That makes Russia the country best suited for the “Hegemon” role, but since Russia will have no resource constraints for the next few hundred years Russia doesn’t see the need to get too involved with the rest of the world. Currently Russia can’t understand why the rest of the world just can’t leave Russia the f… alone to live and trade in peace, even after the collapse of Communism in Russia, there are just agitations and irritations on / near Russia’s borders all the time. Someday maybe Russia might realise that its easier to just take over this planet than to deal with all the constant hassles and schemes of its neighbours.
Posted by: gT | Dec 29 2023 17:58 utc | 18
In Ukraine, they recognized their impotence in front of the Russian X-22 missile. The Ukrainian Armed Forces were unable to shoot down any of them
Speaker Ignat said that the Armed Forces of Ukraine could not shoot down a single X-22 missile during the SVO.
Speaker of the Air Force of Ukraine Yuriy Ignat acknowledged the impotence of Ukrainian air defense systems over the Russian X-22 missile. He confirmed that since the beginning of the special military operation (SVO), the Armed Forces of the Republic (APU) have not been able to shoot down any of them.
Ignat pointed out that the long-range supersonic cruise anti-ship missile X-22 ” flies at a speed of 4 thousand kilometers per hour, it comes to the target most often along a ballistic trajectory, so special means are needed to intercept it.”
The enemy has used more than 300 of these missiles [since the beginning of the CDF]. In addition to the X-22, they also have an upgraded version of this rocket-the X-32
Earlier, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have already recognized the impossibility of countering Russian X-22 missiles
In August, Ignat stated that Ukrainian air defense systems are not capable of countering X-22 missiles. “Not a single [Russian] X-22 cruise missile was destroyed by the Ukrainian air defense (…) for the entire period of military operations, ” he said.
According to the speaker of the Air Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, these ammunition can be shot down by the Patriot anti-aircraft missile system (SAM). In addition, Ignat believes that this air defense system is allegedly capable of coping with Russian hypersonic Kinzhal missiles.
In the summer of 2023, Ignat also spoke about the difficulties in defeating Russian missiles that can maneuver in flight. “Even 180 degrees turns in order to complicate the work of air defense by a sharp change in routes,” he explained. The military also noted that the Ukrainian air defense system is confused by attack drones circling in the sky.
According to Military Watch Magazine, Ukrainian officials complain that the X-22 missiles, designed to bypass the layered air defense system surrounding US carrier groups, are impossible to intercept.
The publication says that shells of this type play a key role in defeating strategic targets in Ukraine, and ” their large 950-kilogram warheads cause huge damage.”
The main problem of the Ukrainian air defense system is named
Retired Colonel, military expert Anatoly Matviychuk said that the main problem of the AFU air defense system is its unsystematic nature and the low level of protection of Western systems supplied to Kiev.
There is no single system in Ukraine, as we have done. It’s more of a “hodgepodge” that consists of everything that different countries have given them. The system is not locked, and it does not provide cover in the event of our air attack
According to Matviychuk, the air defense systems that the West sends to Ukraine “have shown their complete inability to resist our air components.” “There were delivered IRIS-T from Germany, Patriot from the United States — all of them showed that they are able to perform tasks in the near zone, but with massive targets, for example, a swarm of drones, when we overload the enemy, they can not cope,” he said.
In turn, military commentator Anton Lavrov considered that the main problem of the Ukrainian air defense system is its dependence on Soviet-made ammunition stocks.
He noted that these reserves are large, but not infinite. Large cities and key facilities in Ukraine are covered by outdated modifications of the S-300 and Buk anti-aircraft missile systems. According to him, SAM missiles are more expensive than the kamikaze drones used by Russia. Lavrov stressed that Kiev has nowhere to take additional missiles.
“Therefore, heavy Ukrainian air defense systems were protected and not always used even to cover the troops. They operated from ambushes, turning on occasionally and briefly, changing positions. With the beginning of mass attacks on infrastructure, the Ukrainian command was forced to use them in full, and as a result, the location of many anti-aircraft systems was detected and hit. Such strikes further thinned the Ukrainian air defense system, ” the expert said.
https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2023/12/many-people-may-have-missied.html#comment-6354661220
Posted by: rpst | Dec 29 2023 18:01 utc | 19
Ukraine Weekly Update 29th Dec: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-3c5
Posted by: Dr. Rob Campbell | Dec 29 2023 18:03 utc | 20
@Zionist american | Dec 29 2023 17:30 utc | 15
Over 100,000 russian Orcs liquidated…heheheh
That’s why Russia can never stop its SloMO until millions of Westerners have been eliminated, either by social and economic squabbles in their own countries, or by Russian military action …hahahah
Posted by: gT | Dec 29 2023 18:05 utc | 21
Enormous Air Strikes by Russian VKS
The Russian army is using a massive strike to hit pre-identified military targets in Ukraine. In addition, this attack could be a response to the previously damaged BDK of the Black Sea Fleet “Novocherkassk” in Feodosia. This was reported to VZGLYAD newspaper by military correspondent Fyodor Gromov. Earlier, the Russian Armed Forces launched a massive strike on Ukraine.
“The massive strikes that we are seeing are necessary to overload the enemy’s air defense system. The West has supplied the Ukrainian Armed Forces with a sufficient number of anti-aircraft weapons. In addition, Ukraine still has some Soviet equipment at its disposal. Therefore, only such a serious attack can guarantee the achievement of a result, ” said military correspondent Fyodor Gromov.
“It was necessary for our army to hit the targets, the locations of which were previously transmitted by our intelligence. These are the enemy’s factories, for example, “Artem” in Kiev. There may not even be a production facility, but the workshops are a convenient place to place military supplies. The peculiarity of such enterprises is that they were built during the Soviet era and often represent reinforced structures that are not so easy to break through, ” he notes.
“The target could also be enemy air defense positional areas. In addition, the Ground Forces Academy in Lviv was hit, where personnel were located. We also hit the logistics of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, ” the source emphasizes.
“But the defeat of planned targets is not the only task that the Russian army solved with this attack. Massive strikes contribute to a decrease in the enemy’s fighting spirit. Well, I do not rule out that our strikes have become a kind of” retaliation strikes “for the Novocherkassk BDK damaged in Feodosia. Such things cannot be left unpunished, ” Gromov concluded.
Earlier, the Russian army launched a massive attack on targets in Ukraine. Not only Iskanders, but also strategic aviation with Kh-101 missiles and the navy with Kalibras are working on objects on the territory of Ukraine.
“We have not yet seen so many targets simultaneously on our monitor,” said Yuri Ignat, a representative of the AFU Air Force. Military analyst Yuri Podolyaka calls it “the most powerful raid of the Russian Aerospace Forces”, not counting the first days of the special operation.
In particular, a series of explosions occurred in Odessa in the south of the country. There were also strikes on objects in Kharkiv. The mayor of the city, Igor Terekhov, said that at least six explosions occurred in the city. In addition, there were arrivals in Cherkasy.
The fire also occurred at a critical infrastructure facility in Lviv in the west of the country, Mayor of the city Andriy Sadovyi said. “Rossiyskaya Gazeta” reports that a hit was recorded in the barracks of the Academy of the Ground Forces of Ukraine. It is noted that the building caught fire and collapsed after the impact.
Several strikes were carried out on targets in Kiev. The mayor of the Ukrainian capital Vitali Klitschko told about the fact of explosions. “Explosions in Kiev. Air defense works. Stay under cover! ” he wrote. Eyewitnesses reported that a column of black smoke was visible in the area of the Artem military plant in the Solomenskiy district.
Vitali Klitschko also reported damage to the Lukyanovskaya metro station. It only worked as a shelter, and trains passed it without stopping. It is located in the city center, in the Shevchenko district. Also, the mayor of the Ukrainian capital confirmed strikes on the Podolsk district, where about fifty industrial enterprises are located.
https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2023/12/many-people-may-have-missied.html#comment-6354650743
Posted by: rpst | Dec 29 2023 18:11 utc | 22
@ 13.
Why would a long-range bomber be in Kursk? Try harder.
@ 15.
Not even close to that number, and the USA is losing far more people due to drugs, crime & general misrule and is on a downward socioeconomic slide.
Whereas the RF is improving in socioeconomic terms, and will have gained millions in natural/easily assimilable population post-war. As an inevitable outcome, however long it takes.
Try harder.
Posted by: Urban Fox | Dec 29 2023 18:11 utc | 23
“Ukraine Doesn’t Need All Its Territory to Defeat Putin”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/27/opinion/ukraine-military-aid.html
“True victory for Ukraine is to rise from the hell of the war as a strong, independent, prosperous and secure state, firmly planted in the West. ”
Strong as Romania, Independent like Germany, prosperous like greek and secure like ???
Ukraine is the largest private military service provider in the world. It uses the territory of a failed shithole state and treats the population like serfs.
The money that Germany has paid to members so far has been generated by profits that the German economy has been able to earn through cheap Russian energy imports. Well.
Posted by: 600w | Dec 29 2023 18:16 utc | 24
Ukranazistan sent a unarmed man with Downs’ Syndrome into the meat grinder.
https://t.me/inessas1992/5546
This is beyond evil.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 29 2023 18:19 utc | 25
Reuters is reporting the recent Russia strikes as
Thirty one dead in one of Russia’s biggest missile strikes – Kyiv
Russia hit residential buildings in Kyiv, the south and west of the country, officials said.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 29 2023 18:23 utc | 26
@25
Among the greatest frauds perpetrated on humanity are the various “Human Rights” Organizations.
They’re simply CIA cutouts used for shite stirring.
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Dec 29 2023 18:25 utc | 27
Tu-22M3 down?
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1740733225771913316
Posted by: Apollyon | Dec 29 2023 16:59 utc | 13
Let’s see…
” Still unconfirmed.
Most sites are all originating from one source. ”
I doubt AFU has anything serious east of the Dnieper, and Kursk is over 400 km from Kiev, that’s twice the range of any AD the AFU might have.
Posted by: Newbie | Dec 29 2023 18:26 utc | 28
Tu-22M3 down?
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1740733225771913316
Posted by: Apollyon | Dec 29 2023 16:59 utc | 13
And what shot it down? They got a shipment of S-500s from the Russians?
These are the same people claiming they intercepted 87 out of 90 cruise missiles today, and most of the hypersonics launched against them over the last year. Extremely reliable sources in other words…
Also today we got another episode of this:
Thirty one dead in one of Russia’s biggest missile strikes – Kyiv
Russia hit residential buildings in Kyiv, the south and west of the country, officials said.
Today it’s 31 dead, more than usual, but the pattern is the same: “Russia is comitting genocide against Ukraine, it launched ~100 missiles (that cost 0.5-1M each) and killed 10 people and injured 20”. And the Westoid sheep swallow it whole without a second of thought or reflection on what they have been told.
Meanwhile Israel drops 2000-pound JDAMs on civilian homes in Gaza in the hundreds daily and kills hundreds of people every day. That’s either ignored or justified.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Dec 29 2023 18:33 utc | 29
Russia failed to destroy Ukrainian el. energy infrastructure. By destroying it this war would be over in 3 weeks.
Posted by: zorge | Dec 29 2023 18:34 utc | 30
@ 13.
Why would a long-range bomber be in Kursk? Try harder.
Posted by: Urban Fox | Dec 29 2023 18:11 utc | 23
It’s the airbase where one was damaged in August. Returning from the missile raid.
The issue would be what could strike a backfire 400km from Kiev
Posted by: Newbie | Dec 29 2023 18:34 utc | 31
“Zelensky needs to go before Ukraine collapses.”
Well, there are two ways to read that title, depending upon how one’s propaganda bullshit meter is calibrated. My immediate reaction to the title was that the collapse of Ukraine in the author’s mind was a fait accompli, and that Z-man needed to leave for his own safety. A real brain fart on my part. Then I realized the title was a lead-in for the propaganda du jour of the west, the adjusted narrative that as long as it takes has taken long enough, and we need to find common ground with Vlad in the form of talks, and Z-man is standing in the way. If only Z-man would step aside. The possibility that the West has very few decent cards in its hand is not brought up, the usual bromides about Putin wanting an out are regurgitated.
Posted by: Mike R | Dec 29 2023 18:42 utc | 32
Strong as Romania, Independent like Germany, prosperous like greek and secure like ???
Posted by: 600w | Dec 29 2023 18:16 utc | 24
Like the baltic states 😀
And what shot it down? They got a shipment of S-500s from the Russians?
Today it’s 31 dead, more than usual, but the pattern is the same: “Russia is comitting genocide against Ukraine, it launched ~100 missiles (that cost 0.5-1M each) and killed 10 people and injured 20”. And the Westoid sheep swallow it whole without a second of thought or reflection on what they have been told.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Dec 29 2023 18:33 utc | 29
As I mentioned earlier, if they had any serious AD so close to russia it would be vaporized, and kiev->>kursk 400km+
Closer to 160 drones and missiles (according to some sources), and the targets included a military academy, so as per usual procedure a massive attack with virtually no programed civilian casualties (and yes, they can shoot down some of the drones and slower missiles and they land where they happen to land and there is also the debris and whole AFU AD missiles to account for). So if this is genocide I just hope I’m the enemy of russians and not being liberated by nato.
Posted by: Newbie | Dec 29 2023 18:43 utc | 33
Posted by: zorge | Dec 29 2023 18:34 utc | 30
################
Why would they destroy their future infrastructure?
The Russians are NOT the Ukrainians. The Ukrainians waste shells firing at schools in Donetsk and then cry that the West won’t support them.
Almost every day, you make some really weak comments. Do you truly not understand what is actually happening here, and the differences between the two combatants?
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 29 2023 18:46 utc | 34
Ukraine Weekly Update 29th Dec: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-3c5
Posted by: Dr. Rob Campbell | Dec 29 2023 18:03 utc | 20
Thanks Rob!
Posted by: Simon | Dec 29 2023 18:55 utc | 35
LoveDonbass | Dec 29 2023 18:46 utc | 34
“Why would they destroy their future infrastructure?”
Why the Russians would ever want to rebuild the industrial infrastructure of this cesspool is beyond me. If there was ever a place where the Morgenthau Plan really should be applied it’s to the Borderland.
Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Dec 29 2023 19:24 utc | 36
If the West thinks that Russia will score big gains from now until mud season, then it might seem wise to them to have Zelenskyy take the blame for that, then have him ousted when Russia is compelled to pause and consolidate as the melting snow and the rain make the ground a slog to advance through.
Ironically, if that is their strategy, then the Biden administration could be laughing up their sleeve as Republicans hold back funds for Ukraine.
Zelenskyy refuses to accept his orders to retreat, but curtailed funds could force him to listen to the West. Once the retreat is completed, and his popularity sinks as a result, there could be an opportunity to replace him with someone who understands that they have to prop up the rep of the MIC until the 2024 elections conclude*. If they agree to go on the defensive, aid will flow as hard as the West can arrange it, and they hope that will be enough to get Putin to the bargaining table.
The MIC would then declare mission accomplished, Putin stopped from taking his tanks to London, and then to Washington. 😆
But imo Russia won’t agree to help the West win elections by posing for pictures sitting at a bargaining table, not unless some sanctions were lifted immediately, and their frozen funds immediately returned to them.
Imo that would be a fair price for granting a photo op, and possibly having to delay fully de-Nazifying, and de-NATOing, Ukraine until after the West has been to the polls in 2024.
*If that becomes an unrealistic dream due to Russia advancing faster than the West anticipates, then the MIC might accept Ukraine at least holding on long enough so that the humiliation of having a gas station nation, armed with shovels and microchips from washing machines, defeating the best efforts of the best minds that the MIC has on tap isn’t an issue during primary season.
God forbid that somebody ran on the premise that Washington is filled with dangerous fools, failures that need to be replaced. If Biden’s health, mental and/or physical causes him to drop out, there could be a window of opportunity for a candidate to gain prominence by espousing such an obvious truth.
Even Trump might see an advantage in dropping some truth bombs. I’m not saying that could cause things to change, I’m just suggesting that the MIC is desperate that the American public never hears such words being spoken by plausible candidates during an election cycle.
Posted by: Babel-17 | Dec 29 2023 19:25 utc | 37
@ gT @ Urban Fox
If a few europeans also have to die in order to exterminate more orcs and some americans impoverished so be it…heheheh
Posted by: Zionist american | Dec 29 2023 19:26 utc | 38
Posted by: Zionist american | Dec 29 2023 17:30 utc | 15
Orcs can be regrown like beets you know right? So no loss here since 300000 elves died
Posted by: Macpott | Dec 29 2023 19:27 utc | 39
#7 karlof1 agree with you ..ukrainian society is not as romanian society around this time 34 yrs ago…there will be not populist upraising…those smarter left in the 2014-2022 left are retired ppl students and rest are(25-30 millions?) sadly air-headed, hateful of Russia, admirers of “golden west” they leave in their false “liberal” western illusionary world….recent most heaviest bombardment since feb.2022 and possible blackout/freezing temperatures bring them soon to real world….I believe- if-ever ever something happen internally it will be mid ranking officers not currently known who will say-enough is enough…..
” Among the greatest frauds perpetrated on humanity are the various “Human Rights” Organizations.
They’re simply CIA cutouts used for shite stirring.
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Dec 29 2023 18:25 utc | 27 ”
Lets not forget the ” human rights” the UN forces upon all societies of the world, whether they like it or not. You cant have multi polar world where only one party gets to define what ” human rights ” are.
Posted by: Moonie | Dec 29 2023 19:50 utc | 41
@Zionist american | Dec 29 2023 19:26 utc | 38
If a few europeans also have to die in order to exterminate more orcs and some americans impoverished so be it…heheheh
No, not a few Europeans dying and some Americans impoverished, millions of Europeans and Americans are going to die, this is not going to be like WW2 or Vietnam or Iraq or whatever, this time round the bulk of casualties are going to be on the Western side … hahahah
Posted by: gT | Dec 29 2023 20:06 utc | 42
@Macpot
As long as russian Orcs are being flushed like turds it is a bargain…heheheh
Posted by: Zionist american | Dec 29 2023 20:06 utc | 43
@ Zionist american | Dec 29 2023 20:06 utc | 43
you are one sick mother fucker.
Posted by: james | Dec 29 2023 20:21 utc | 44
I hope they got the F16 and the instructors, mechanics and support staff!
Posted by: g wiltek | Dec 29 2023 20:23 utc | 45
https://www.aaronmate.net/p/putin-did-everything-possible-to
Putin did ‘everything possible’ to make peace, veteran Ukrainian diplomat says
New evidence emerges that the Biden administration blocked a Russia-Ukraine peace deal in April 2022, and shunned more Kremlin overtures in the period since.
The rest is paywalled, anyone here subscribe to AM’s Substack?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 29 2023 20:45 utc | 46
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 29 2023 20:45 utc | 46
And he is doing everything possible to avoid ww3.
Posted by: Naive | Dec 29 2023 20:49 utc | 47
Looking for good telegram channels for ukrainian war coverage
Posted by: Domo | Dec 29 2023 20:51 utc | 48
Biswapriya Purkayast @ 25
Ukranazistan sent a unarmed man with Downs’ Syndrome into the meat grinder. This is beyond evil
Yes, and lets be clear what’s behind it. Physically and mentally disabled people only put other soldiers at risk, it is self defeating, any proper army understands this, the goal here isn’t to provide volkssturm cannon fodder in a desperate attempt to hold the lines, it’s to purge Ukrainian society of useless people, useless eaters, consuming financial resources in a bankrupt state. I would bet EU and USA WEF supremacist and eugenicist neocons are totally on board if not the ones who ordered it, “we’ll keep financing you but you must cut expenses to the bone, start by culling your pensioners and handicapped”.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Dec 29 2023 21:00 utc | 49
https://www.rt.com/russia/589908-martinyuk-ukraine-death-battle/
What a wonderful rationale for mass combat deaths of the unprepared ! Just amazing that (apparently) adult Ukrainians lack the simple intellect to realize, “If we all surrendered to Russia, we could still be alive and they would think of us as just another kind of Russian”. Or, “we’re fighting for what again? Freedom? Seriously?”.
Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 29 2023 21:09 utc | 50
Interesting interview re: the JFK assassination which applies to the 9/11 conversation. “The honest government test” – something that the USG fails on every count.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 29 2023 21:15 utc | 51
OOPS. Link: https://scheerpost.com/2023/12/29/four-deaths-that-shaped-modern-american-history/
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 29 2023 21:16 utc | 52
Eightmann 50: “Or, “we’re fighting for what again? Freedom? Seriously?”.” Not only Freedom, Freedom & Black Rock.
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Dec 29 2023 21:27 utc | 53
Putin’s mention of the historical claims to Ukrainian lands by Poland, Romania, and Hungary is an interesting gambit, perhaps trying to seed some ideas into the political discourse in these countries.
Posted by: the pessimist | Dec 29 2023 21:31 utc | 54
Pessimist 54: Yes, I liked that too. You can clearly see what is important to him: strengthening the internal contradictions and fault lines of the West until the system collapses.
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Dec 29 2023 21:37 utc | 55
@ LightYearsFromHome
“Yes, and lets be clear what’s behind it. (…) the goal here isn’t to provide volkssturm cannon fodder in a desperate attempt to hold the lines, it’s to purge Ukrainian society of useless people, useless eaters, consuming financial resources in a bankrupt state.”
The war produces dozens of physically and mentally disabled people every day. So I don’t see the logic behind it. And to me, everybody who goes to the front is mentally disabled.
Posted by: Apollyon | Dec 29 2023 21:39 utc | 56
Hi Barflies. Just ignore the onanist at post 15. He just wants a rise out of you.
Leave him to get cramp in his mother’s cellar.
Happy New Year JB
Posted by: Judge Barbier | Dec 29 2023 21:47 utc | 57
@gT (gay Trans)
In war sacrifices are necessary…heheheh
Posted by: Zionist american | Dec 29 2023 21:59 utc | 58
Why did Russia wait until it was attacked to attack Ukraine’s pre-identified targets?
Russia must have destroyed these proactively.
Poland claims Russian missiles violated its air space. NATO is not interested.
Posted by: Jason | Dec 29 2023 22:06 utc | 59
Well the NYT did put up the graphic/video of a big explosion from a Russian missile strike. Imo the embedded message, for their core audience, is that Zelenskyy, and probably Ukraine too, is now a drag on “their” brand, and so it’s OK to think about cutting them loose. Must keep their eyes on the bigger picture, the one that encapsulates the Middle East/Israel. Imo the plan is to declare victory the second Putin signs a treaty that includes an implication he won’t be advancing into NATO countries. “We have contained the Beast! He concedes defeat!”
Let the opium smokers have their fantasy, let the injectors of dope ride the rush of their artificially induced thrills.
https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/europe/100000009244007/kyiv-strike-ukraine-russia.html?smid=pl-share
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/29/world/europe/russia-ukraine-missile-attacks.html
Russia targeted Ukrainian cities with more than 150 missiles and drones on Friday morning, in what Ukrainian officials said was one of the largest air assaults of the war. At least 30 people were killed, and more than 160 were wounded, according to the Ukrainian government, and critical infrastructure was damaged.
“This is the biggest attack since the counting began,” Yurii Ihnat, a Ukrainian Air Force spokesman, said in a brief telephone interview, adding that the military did not track air assaults in the early days of Russia’s full-scale invasion, which began in February2022.
For several hours on Friday, missiles, drones and debris slammed into factories, hospitals and schools in cities across Ukraine, from Lviv in the west to Kharkiv in the east, straining the country’s air defenses and sending people scrambling for shelter.
Posted by: Babel-17 | Dec 29 2023 22:29 utc | 60
Over 100,000 russian Orcs liquidated…heheheh
Posted by: Zionist american | Dec 29 2023 17:30 utc | 15
Hehehe…..Over 600,000 kiev zombies exterminated…..hehehehe
Posted by: HERMIUS | Dec 29 2023 22:40 utc | 61
Posted by: HERMIUS | Dec 29 2023 22:40 utc | 61
Please, behave like an adult and do not feed the troll.
Posted by: Naive | Dec 29 2023 22:45 utc | 62
It looks like the US and its assorted jackals and poodles are finally about to “legally” steal Russian state assets and private property held by individuals, mainly in the EU.
I can’t see all the convoluted legal and mental gymnastics to legitimise their kleptocratic antics.
After all, they have been stealing anything that is not nailed down, and anything that is nailed down, for years. Venezuelan gold bullion held at the Bank of England, Libyan gold, Afghan state reserves, Venezuelan owned oil refineries in the US, Iranian property, Iranian and North Korean ships and their cargoes on the high seas (it’s gratifying to see the UK carrying on in the time honoured footsteps of the Elizabethan pirates in this regard.)
Dick Turpin, Jesse James, Bonnie and Clyde, and the Great Train Robbers were nothing compared to our compared to our distinguished kleptocratic elite.
Instead of devising arcane new bureaucratic mechanisms to make theft legal, why don’t they just shout out, “Stand and Deliver!”, or, “This is a stick up!”, in the best time honoured tradition?
If it was good enough for Turpin and James and Co., why not for “10% for the Big Guy” Biden and VD Leyen?
Posted by: anon | Dec 29 2023 22:59 utc | 63
“Zionist american”
Won’t everyone welcome Lindsey Graham to the bar.
Posted by: Fred777 | Dec 29 2023 23:09 utc | 64
Trumpo appears to have been banned from standing in yet another Democrat run state, by the diktat of some obscure Democrat bureaucrat, who was probably appointed in the first place because she was the wife or gay partner or whatever of a dog food tycoon who gave a few fat donations to Brandon.
It’s quite heartening to see democracy in action in the US, and the legalised thieving and looting of other countries’ assets mentioned above.
Because those are our rules based human rights democracy values, and that’s just who we are. We have to steal other people’s money and ban opposition candidates. There is simply no alternative.
Posted by: anon | Dec 29 2023 23:11 utc | 65
Posted by: anon | Dec 29 2023 22:59 utc | 63
If they will do it, it will backfire. And hasten the dedollarisation. It is more than 20 years that I do not own even 1 dollar. It is a monkey currency.
Posted by: Naive | Dec 29 2023 23:12 utc | 66
OT to Ukraine, but relevant to the general trend:
The Trump-wannabe Milei announces that Argentina will not join BRICS bloc.
Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Dec 29 2023 23:12 utc | 67
Milei made it plain during his campaign he was going to tie Argentina to the US.
Posted by: YetAnotherAnon | Dec 29 2023 23:23 utc | 68
” Hehehe…..Over 600,000 kiev zombies exterminated…..hehehehe
Posted by: HERMIUS | Dec 29 2023 22:40 utc | 61 ”
Unfortunately for Russia you are very wrong. 0nly 383,000 and that includes wounded which, may or may not, have returned to combat.
” Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu says Kiev has lost more than 383,000 troops, either killed or wounded, since February 2022 ”
Posted by: Moonie | Dec 29 2023 23:36 utc | 69
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tifinagh
Good riddance. One seat is now free for Algeria.
Posted by: Naive | Dec 29 2023 23:38 utc | 70
“Well the NYT did put up the graphic/video of a big explosion from a Russian missile strike. Imo the embedded message, for their core audience, is that Zelenskyy, and probably Ukraine too, is now a drag on “their” brand, and so it’s OK to think about cutting them loose…”
Posted by: Babel-17 | Dec 29 2023 22:29 utc | 60
I agree with your analysis however, if the USA cuts the Ukraine ‘loose’ they will have to sacrifice Biden for the Uke Nazis will retaliate with evidence of the Biden Ukrainian corruption when the ‘spice isn’t flowing any more’..
Who will replace Biden: Kamala. Newsome, Hillary? Not exactly a trifecta of excellence….
@ YetAnotherAnon | Dec 29 2023 23:23 utc | 68
saying you are going to use us$ as your currency is giving away a big chunk your soveriegnty… once argentina figures out what this means, they may have a different viewpoint of this jackass melei.. it is bad enough the imf pushing their bullshit, but having an imf rep as the new head of argentina doesn’t bode well for argentina..
Posted by: james | Dec 29 2023 23:51 utc | 72
Naive 66
Yes, absolutely right.
I’m surprised the Chinese and the Arabs still hold any US Treasuries.
I half expected Brandon to steal their holdings as well, on the grounds that there weren’t enough LGBT parades in Shanghai or Riyadh or something.
Of course the value of western assets in Russia far outweighs that of Russian assets in the EU.
Posted by: anon | Dec 29 2023 23:56 utc | 73
they may have a different viewpoint of this jackass melei..
Posted by: james | Dec 29 2023 23:51 utc | 72
Hopefully this will end the tiktok trend of politicians with ruffled hair…
Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Dec 30 2023 0:05 utc | 74
Posted by: canuck | Dec 29 2023 23:50 utc | 71
I think Biden is toast regardless of Ukraine. It looks to me like his brother got sloppy with that transfer of 200,000 dollars from overseas, and nobody will buy that the amount there is coincidental to what later flowed to Joe Biden.
And there’s much more than that implied in Hunter’s sleazy financials. Joe Biden wired to Hunter the money to pay a high priced sex worker, one who might have been compelled to work for the Russian syndicate employing her.
Hearing her voice on Hunter’s videotape reminded me of the episode from Nikita* where Nikita’s Russian born protege, Alexandra, was trying to rescue her friend from the sex trade she herself had narrowly escaped from.
So much sleaze.
*Season One, Episode Fifteen, “Alexandra”. The always excellent Ksenia Solo, born in Riga, Latvia, plays the girl trapped in the sex trade. Her character on that episode is who I picture as being the girl in Hunter’s video.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1821928/characters/nm0989959?ref_=tt_mv_close
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUhdx2p4tKQ
Posted by: Babel-17 | Dec 30 2023 0:20 utc | 75
Looks like Argentina is building a new Eva Peron moment. U.S. dollar as currency? How are they going to buy them/get them?
Out of BRICS? Don’t cry for thee Argentina.
Perhaps Perfidious Albion and lock hands with Biden and prevent a new coup, another U.S. Military adventure.
Posted by: kupkee | Dec 30 2023 0:24 utc | 76
Voice impression provided by Mike MacRae, lol! 🙂
“I’m Finally Ready To Abandon Ukraine!” – Joe Biden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2W-XJMBcNU
Posted by: Babel-17 | Dec 30 2023 0:26 utc | 77
News today in the west – maternity hospital and school in Ukraine hit as a revenge for the supply ship strike, 30 people injured.
Tells you all you need to know of the ratio spread between delusion and reality. This can only be explained if they are preparing European sheep for suicide. You can pick up pennies but its always a gamble doing it in front of a street roller.
Posted by: unimperator | Dec 30 2023 0:28 utc | 78
YetAnotherAnon | Dec 29 2023 23:23 utc | 68
*** Milei made it plain during his campaign he was going to tie Argentina to the US.***
Find it impossible to believe that crap like him and the array of comic-book escapee freaks such as supposedly “lead” countries in Europe (UK included) could get into office via anything other than massively faked ‘election’ results.
Sure, the publics have been deliberately dumbed-down — but to that extent?
Posted by: Cynic | Dec 30 2023 1:10 utc | 80
i agree with karlof1’s first sentence… ain’t no one who is going to go up against this nazi freaks and it is too late for the west to green light someone who would.. and it is much the same with the leadership in israel too.. they have gone too far to the right to change course here..
Posted by: james | Dec 29 2023 16:32 utc | 9
Why would the West greenlight someone like that? Western governments enthusiastically lined up behind any nazis they could find.
Western governments have gone too far to the right, too. And they never knew how to turn around. As far as German politicians are concerned, they have a negative learning curve.
Posted by: Martina | Dec 30 2023 1:12 utc | 81
I just heard elensky killed himself! His penis got stuck on e flat….. Slobber jukraina!
Posted by: nook | Dec 30 2023 1:21 utc | 82
unimperator @78
“News today in the west – maternity hospital and school in Ukraine hit as a revenge for the supply ship strike, 30 people injured.
Tells you all you need to know of the ratio spread between delusion and reality…”
You are working hard to demonstrate that 2+2=4 when a simpler equation will suffice:
maternity hospital and school hit = Russia targeting air defences;
1=1.
Posted by: Gerry L. Forbes | Dec 30 2023 1:28 utc | 83
In war sacrifices are necessary…the price in Ukie lives is worth it to make russia pay for its aggression…Heheheh
Posted by: Zionist american | Dec 30 2023 0:55 utc | 79
Its pay back time Mr. Nazi-onist Yankee Arsehole. All the aggression from kiev fascists, throughout nine years of viscious attacks on Donetsk and Lugansk, incurring 14,000 deaths, is now being avenged. You asked for a fight, you filthy squirming little fascist shitster. You got it. Now fuck off dipstick!
Drinks are on me….except for the plonker above
Posted by: HERMIUS | Dec 30 2023 1:33 utc | 84
” Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu says Kiev has lost more than 383,000 troops, either killed or wounded, since February 2022 ”
Posted by: Moonie | Dec 29 2023 23:36 utc | 69
I think he meant 383+160 KIA
Only way to fit the rest of the data
Posted by: Newbie | Dec 30 2023 1:42 utc | 85
Some videos for today.
Russian infantry fighting vehicle provides cover fire for advancing infantry, near Kupyansk:
https://rutube.ru/video/77a2cd258cf7c94e791a63e12d1e4c6e/
Russian airborne troops fire ATGM at enemy observation post on the right bank of the Dnepr River:
https://rutube.ru/video/922a9e544bd9d9c26a605d398e9cca5c/
Russian Uragan MLRS pounds enemy position near Ugledar:
https://rutube.ru/video/b11dc6d0ca7205c2fcad9d0b6c825653/
Russian Mi-28 assault helicopter conducts airstrike near Donetsk:
https://rutube.ru/video/d7dfc1790de09e969a1a378c82e82d1e/
Posted by: Nate | Dec 30 2023 1:51 utc | 86
Grasp some more straws… because murica…. Hu rah! Lmfao!!!!
Posted by: nook | Dec 30 2023 1:54 utc | 87
#1
Russians want Ze to stay bc he won’t negotiate, sama as what Nazis want, so not likely to be pushed out internally unless he pushes Za too hard. But Biden won’t accept anything russia would, so unless the army rebels imo no change.
Posted by: John k | Dec 30 2023 2:05 utc | 88
If you want to know how effective last nights Russia bombing was, just read Reuters headlines
Russia’s air assault on Ukraine draws criticism at UN Security Council meeting
anybody with the UN whinging in text?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 30 2023 2:19 utc | 89
Murica is a joke. Jewkrain is a joke. EU is a joke. die now and curse in vain!
Posted by: nook | Dec 30 2023 2:27 utc | 90
” I think he meant 383+160 KIA
Only way to fit the rest of the data
Posted by: Newbie | Dec 30 2023 1:42 utc | 86 ”
Personally, I will take the man on his word, not what I think he meant.
Posted by: Moonie | Dec 30 2023 2:38 utc | 91
Slavic people have a low birth rate yet they are killing each other’s men full of life. Shame on Putin.
Posted by: Ready Examination | Dec 30 2023 2:47 utc | 92
The only place murica and it’s slave’s can win is an online fantasy and they fill the web with shiiiiiit 24/7. Go ahead and die already!
Posted by: nook | Dec 30 2023 2:56 utc | 94
In murican language, freedom is doing whatever the western elites demand you do while forcing you to lick their filthy rectum. Get it right or perish.
Posted by: nook | Dec 30 2023 3:00 utc | 95
Posted by: Zionist asshole | Dec 29 2023 17:30 utc | 15
Also goes by monikers “Hehehebrew Murderer” and “Hohoho of Judea” on the Palestinian thread.
Posted by: Suresh | Dec 30 2023 3:28 utc | 96
The talk in Kiev of dradting 500,000 military personel sounds like a shenanigan as much as the counter-offensive talk was last year. The purpose is to get money from the US and European partners and gain time without achieving anything of consequence. Everyone knows it but no one wants to wake up to reality.
Fortunately some old guy with real credentials, Chas Freeman, former assistant secretary of Defense is capable of viewing the facts for what they are. It seems that the intermediate generation, the Blinkeb’s and friends have a very confused mind. i watched part of tonight’s UN Security Council meeting and many diplomats there sound like ill informed useless diplomats. I hope the next younger generation will be more competent.
I wish to thank the poster who shared the url of Chas conversation with Rostami Alkhorshid.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=58DptJJ8kQc
Posted by: Richard L | Dec 30 2023 3:51 utc | 97
Zelensky will leave no sooner than Russia wants him to leave. Until the goals of the SMO have been reached, Zelensky remains a tremendous asset to the Russian side.
Heaven forbid that someone competent or popular comes to power. That would be a disaster. I think it is too soon to sign an armistice, even if a lot of territory gets handed to the Russians (which I am not sure NATO can afford).
I reckon another 12 months should finish the job properly.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 29 2023 16:02 utc | 3
The Russians won’t end the war until Ukraine capitulates, so it doesn’t matter who signs the surrender. Zelensky’s competence was never a factor, decisions are made by Washington, Brussels and the Ukronazis, none of who can negotiate anything with Russia. And what would ‘competence’ consist of? There is no path to a Ukrainian victory. What ‘disaster’ consist of? Ukraine and collective west cannot, in material reality, do better than they have been, no matter who is put in command.
The SMO is not just about Ukraine. It’s about breaking American hegemony. That might take longer than 12 months, and the SMO may end before 12 months if the Ukrainians decide to surrender, but every day that it goes on undermines America’s globalist power. I don’t think Putin is in any hurry to end that.
Posted by: Honzo | Dec 30 2023 4:04 utc | 98
Nook is hilarious! More of that kind of stuff here and less of those 1200 word diatribes or history lessons.
Posted by: bisfugged | Dec 30 2023 4:52 utc | 99
@92 Moonie.
Definitely that’s closer to the actual KIA loss to Ukraine. More then that amount wounded or surrendered.
Posted by: bisfugged | Dec 30 2023 4:55 utc | 100