Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 5, 2023
The War In Ukraine Is Done

The Washington Post has produced a long, two part piece, about the failed 'counter-offensive' in Ukraine. It dispenses equal blame on the U.S. and British planning of the whole mess and the Ukrainian execution of it.

The bullet points from the first part:

Miscalculations, divisions marked offensive planning by U.S., Ukraine (archived)

Key elements that shaped the counteroffensive and the initial outcome include:

  • Ukrainian, U.S. and British military officers held eight major tabletop war games to build a campaign plan. But Washington miscalculated the extent to which Ukraine’s forces could be transformed into a Western-style fighting force in a short period — especially without giving Kyiv air power integral to modern militaries.
  • U.S. and Ukrainian officials sharply disagreed at times over strategy, tactics and timing. The Pentagon wanted the assault to begin in mid-April to prevent Russia from continuing to strengthen its lines. The Ukrainians hesitated, insisting they weren’t ready without additional weapons and training.
  • U.S. military officials were confident that a mechanized frontal attack on Russian lines was feasible with the troops and weapons that Ukraine had. The simulations concluded that Kyiv’s forces, in the best case, could reach the Sea of Azov and cut off Russian troops in the south in 60 to 90 days.
  • The United States advocated a focused assault along that southern axis, but Ukraine’s leadership believed its forces had to attack at three distinct points along the 600-mile front, southward toward both Melitopol and Berdyansk on the Sea of Azov and east toward the embattled city of Bakhmut.
  • The U.S. intelligence community had a more downbeat view than the U.S. military, assessing that the offensive had only a 50-50 chance of success given the stout, multilayered defenses Russia had built up over the winter and spring.
  • Many in Ukraine and the West underestimated Russia’s ability to rebound from battlefield disasters and exploit its perennial strengths: manpower, mines and a willingness to sacrifice lives on a scale that few other countries can countenance.
  • As the expected launch of the offensive approached, Ukrainian military officials feared they would suffer catastrophic losses — while American officials believed the toll would ultimately be higher without a decisive assault.

And from the second part:

In Ukraine, a war of incremental gains as counteroffensive stalls (archived)

Key findings from reporting on the campaign include:

  • Seventy percent of troops in one of the brigades leading the counteroffensive, and equipped with the newest Western weapons, entered battle with no combat experience.
  • Ukraine’s setbacks on the battlefield led to rifts with the United States over how best to cut through deep Russian defenses.
  • The commander of U.S. forces in Europe couldn’t get in touch with Ukraine’s top commander for weeks in the early part of the campaign amid tension over the American’s second-guessing of battlefield decisions.
  • Each side blamed the other for mistakes or miscalculations. U.S. military officials concluded that Ukraine had fallen short in basic military tactics, including the use of ground reconnaissance to understand the density of minefields. Ukrainian officials said the Americans didn’t seem to comprehend how attack drones and other technology had transformed the battlefield.
  • In all, Ukraine has retaken only about 200 square miles of territory, at a cost of thousands of dead and wounded and billions in Western military aid in 2023 alone.

All those points played a role.

My personal ones:

  • Both, the Ukraine and its supporters, systematically underestimated Russian capabilities. (And still do.)
  • Satellite reconnaissance showed Russian defense preparations on the level of the Battle of Kursk. There the German Wehrmacht, after way too long preparations, failed to break the Russian lines. The unlearned lesson from 1943: When you see defense lines like these, try something else.
  • Battle simulations and table top war games have a 'moral factor' input for each side. Setting your sides' factor to 10 and the enemy's factor to 0, as the U.S. and UK obviously did, will let you win every time – but has no relation to reality.
  • Air support would not have helped. Russian air defenses are too strong to counter it.
  • The decision to use barely trained, 'green' brigades without any fighting experience was a serious error.
  • Not to use smoke grenades and, in general, means of deception, was not reasonable at all.
  • To have half of the new troops, the more experienced part, fight Zelenski's already lost battle for Bakhmut, was a major political mistake.

All together made sure that the so called 'counter-offensive' never had a chance to take off. The bickering now is just an attempt to put the blame for the failure onto the other side of the table.

The Ukrainian General Zaluzny has learned from the battle. He now puts up somewhat realistic numbers to let the U.S. understand how small its chances to win really are:

Commander-in-Chief Zaluzhnyi asked Pentagon chief for 17 million rounds of ammunition

US Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin was informed during a visit to Kyiv that Ukraine needed 17 million rounds of ammunition and that US$ 350-400 billion worth of assets and personnel would be required to liberate the country.

Quote from a senior Defence Forces official: "Austin was told 17 million rounds of ammunition were needed. He was stunned, to put it mildly, because you wouldn’t be able to collect that many rounds in the whole world."

The Ukrainian army does not have the ten thousands of barrels required to fire 17 million rounds. Nor has it the men to feed those imaginary guns.

Zaluzny obviously thinks that the war is lost and done with. And that it is time for politics that pursue peace:

In addition, according to a source, Austin also said Zaluzhnyi had complained privately to American generals about interference from the President’s Office [..]: "Austin told us privately that Zaluzhnyi was always complaining to his generals about the President’s Office and how it obstructed him. Well, obviously the president learned about those conversations too. And that isn’t conducive to trust."

However, the President’s Office is inclined to believe that Zaluzhnyi’s dismissal would facilitate his political career.

It is high time for the Biden administration to wrap this whole thing up. Do the usual thing: declare victory, leave and forget-about-it.

Gilbert Doctorow muse about ways to do that:

Seymour Hersh, Anatol Lieven and the desperate DC gambit to end hostilities in Ukraine while claiming ‘victory’

Whatever happens thereafter will be left for the footnotes.

Comments

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Dec 5 2023 17:47 utc | 119
Parties to a negotiation generally start by demanding the moon. What you’ve presented would be a minimum settlement for Russia at this point, and doesn’t include the essential inclusion of Kherson into the RF.
Don’t be fooled by Putin’s initial soft-ball demands at the beginning of the SMO. I can’t imagine that Putin and co. believed for one minute that US/UK/NATO would allow even the treaty that was initialed in 2022 to be put into effect. It was pure propaganda. The SMO was launched with every intention of recovering and incorporating all Russian-majority oblasts and incorporating them in the RF, plus Kiev itself (which has come up again from the Russian side). My personal view is that Russia expects at a minimum to occupy all of Ukraine, as this is the only way to demilitarize and denazify it. I think this was always expected as the only way to actually end the war, as opposed to giving the west a time out to rebuild their forces. If they can occupy via a negotiated surrender of the UAF, fine, but at least a temporary occupation is in the cards. At a certain point, the demographics will have shifted to the point where all of Ukraine would likely vote to accede to the RF. Certainly there are plenty of Nazis, but most who aren’t killed or imprisoned will flee the country. I believe that even a minor dose of truth about this war reaching the ears of Ukrainian citizens will make them long to return to Mother Russia. But- only by occupying the country can that dose be administered.

Posted by: Honzo | Dec 5 2023 22:55 utc | 201

He’s more realistic than Zelensky, but he thinks it is a stalemate, which also isn’t true.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 5 2023 22:01 utc | 180

Perhaps he doesn’t think that, but thinks he can only say that in the current environment, without getting dragged off the street. – just a thought, I know near nothing about the person though.

Posted by: knighthawk | Dec 5 2023 22:56 utc | 202

Zelenskiy cancels call with US senators as Congress urged to back Ukraine aid
Ukrainian president had been expected to join Zoom call but ‘something came up at the last minute’
US Senate Majority Leader Schumer said Ukrainian President Zelensky was unable to brief senators as planned after “something came up.”

Posted by: JB | Dec 5 2023 23:09 utc | 203

“reportedly”

According to preliminary reports, a Su-24M tactical front-line bomber of the Russian Aerospace Forces was shot down during its combat sortie over the Black Sea.

Posted by: nathan in WA US | Dec 5 2023 23:14 utc | 204

>>Key elements that shaped the counteroffensive and the initial outcome…
What a load of bull. The one thing they still will not admit to is that they grievously underestimated the Russians, and on every level. The old rule that it is not a good plan to invade Russia still holds.

Posted by: Jmaas | Dec 5 2023 23:39 utc | 205

Posted by: ASensibleMan | Dec 5 2023 15:42 utc | 70
One of these guys is not like the others, six of these guys are kinda the same. Can you guess why the one guy’s not like the others? Now it’s time to play our game, it’s time to play our game.
*******************
My guess is that one of ‘these guys’, unlike the remaining six, can no longer make dangerous, manipulative decisions now that this particular guy has adopted a seemingly permanent horizontal position.

Posted by: General Factotum | Dec 5 2023 23:49 utc | 206

Those of you who are still on Twitter, or even have a suspended account on Twitter,  like me,  please do read this thread:
https://twitter.com/OlgaBazova/status/1731382816007504014
It chronicles only a small part of the hilarious  and coordinated mass meltdown in the pro Ukranazi propaganda cabal, both NAFO and otherwise, in the last few days. 
Even the egregious Jihadi Julian Röpcke is flat out contradicting his own statements from a few months ago now:
https://x.com/Diogenease/status/1731963762783977902?s=20
Even Lindsey “this is the best money we ever spent” Graham suddenly no longer wants to fund Ukranazistan!
What happened,  blueyellow ragwaggers? What happened?!?

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 5 2023 23:50 utc | 207

The intent behind the Warshington Post articles, which I already read by stopping the loading halfway before the paywall kicked in, is clear: to set the stage for scapegoating the Ukranazis for not obeying their Amerikastani owners’ “advice” on where to attack, how to attack, and when.
They still had to include the standard claims of “200000 Russian dead”, “4500 tanks destroyed”, “demoralised Russian conscripts”, of course, and even dreamt up Russian blocking detachments when it’s their own nazis who are doing this.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 6 2023 0:00 utc | 208

Where is Inkanazi1969? Did he finally take my advice and volunteer for the meat grinder?

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 6 2023 0:01 utc | 209

I certainly hope that the fools in the West stop believing their own propaganda. The Russians will run away, run away. Right. Just like they did in Leningrad and Stalingrad in WWII. And the latest. It’s a stalemate. Right. A stalemate occurs when both sides can block the other from advancing. A stalemate is not when every time the Ukies attack they get shot to pieces and every time the Russians attack they advance, sometimes slowly other times not slowly.

Posted by: Jeff Harrison | Dec 6 2023 0:02 utc | 210

“Putin’s Advances in the Arctic” — DW (German public TV) Documentary published last week at YouTube. Heats up around the 17:50 mark with discussion of French involvement in Russian mega project and NATO response to Russia’s expansion in the Arctic.

Posted by: Pundita | Dec 6 2023 0:05 utc | 211

I would think that if the redacted rumor is true, things must happen quickly, like within hours. If he’s headed for the exit, people will find out very soon and he could be in grave danger.
If ’tis done, ’tis best tis done quickly. Macbeth, I think.

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 6 2023 0:05 utc | 212

Julian @63: “That is not up to The West to decide – it is up to the Ukrainians themselves…”
Obvious bullshit, you disgusting nafo troll. Who is doing deciding in the Ukraine? The overwhelming majority who voted for the kosher Nazi Zelenshiiiyyyy because he promised to make peace with Russia?
Sorry, nafo troll, but as the Ukraine fades into history, you personally are as responsible as the Nazis themselves. More so, in fact.
People like you really are the scum of the Earth.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 6 2023 0:30 utc | 213

Ukraine war is a very rare and valuable opportunity for Russia to cause attrition in Ukraine so that it can never post a serious security threat either by itself or with another belligerent.
Restarting a war with Ukraine after stopping this round of war is very costly. This is the time to fight Ukraine to its neutralization.
Russia should also look for ways to change hostile Ukrainian demographics to a more integrated neighbor of Russia.
Both these long term goals can be achieved by expanding attrition war on Ukraine.

Posted by: Jason | Dec 6 2023 0:37 utc | 214

Posted by: Jason | Dec 6 2023 0:37 utc | 214
Nato is now also sending teenagers from Lwow to the front, that should partially put a dent in the nazi future population.
Posted by: Pundita | Dec 6 2023 0:05 utc | 211
Putin isn’t making any ‘advance in the Arctic’ since Russia is already there. It is Nato which is trying to poke into Russian territorial waters using its newly acquired vassal state.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 6 2023 1:05 utc | 215

Why does anybody assume the US “General Staff” is competent enough to beat a major power in its backyard?
I don’t. I’ve seen no evidence of competence from Vietnam onwards.
Martin van Creveld never saw it in his book “Fighting Power.”

Posted by: Talleyrand | Dec 6 2023 1:16 utc | 216

@ 215 — He is most certainly making advances in the Arctic although of course Russia is already there. Kindly view the documentary to learn about the more recent advances and NATO’s specific recent moves.

Posted by: Pundita | Dec 6 2023 1:18 utc | 217

Is all this talk by the western press just another negotiations head feint.
Ukraine AF does not act as an army ready for surrender. They fight without the best equipment, few supplies, nonexistent air cover and poor leadership.
It appeared several months ago that Nato troops may be present in western ukaraine already. Equipment and uniforms are so mixed between Ukraine and Nato, all that would be needed is some blue painters tape over insignia to make them blend with existing Ukrainian AF. Just keep the units company sized and highly dispersed.
It wouldn’t take long for Nato then to dematerialize and secure their positions under pretense of humanitarian aid in Western Ukraine and establish a no fly zone over the area.
The remaining UAF could then disengage and fall back to defensive positions that would define what the West wants as the new border.
No need for negotiations. We are here and if you want this land come an get it. Defensive is active and in depth, based on strong point fortifications. Tactic – develop partisan behind the Russian lines offensive and dilute the Russian AF personnel and equipment superiority along a wider and deeper front.
I wouldn’t count the Ukrainians out yet if they want the fight to ensure their sovereignty.

Posted by: Jerr | Dec 6 2023 1:37 utc | 218

“…they want the fight to ensure their sovereignty.”
Yet another moronic troll.
The Ukrainian people voted for peace with Russia, but Ukrainian Nazis, with USUK backing and insistence, increased provocations and atrocities until Russia was forced to respond with the SMO. What “sovereignty” of the Ukraine does that demonstrate, you buffoonish nafo troll?

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 6 2023 1:56 utc | 219

Reuters has a posting up with the title
Ukraine sees ‘big risk’ of losing war if U.S. Congress postpones vital aid
I wonder what losing the war means to Reuters?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 6 2023 2:00 utc | 220

Remember, Americans by nature are FAR more violent than the Germans. The chickens will return to roost.
Posted by: OldFart | Dec 5 2023 12:11 utc | 42
——————————————————-
That explains why Americans feel comfortable yelling ‘Kill, Kill, Kill” during football games. Strange behavior to watch for Europeans.
——————————————————————-
The 2021 Russian European security demands are still on the table.
Posted by: English Outsider | Dec 5 2023 15:04 utc | 61
——————————————————————–
That has been karlof1’s line from the get go. Worth repeating, all the time.

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Dec 6 2023 2:04 utc | 221

fyi
Very useful half hour with Dmitri Orlov – Ukraine;Palestine
Huge Strategic Defeat – Making New Enemies | Dmitry Orlov
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AJQMpiLOn0

Posted by: Don Firineach | Dec 6 2023 2:08 utc | 222

Some videos for today.
Russian airborne forces destroyed group of enemy infantry with ATGM near Soledar:
https://rutube.ru/video/7439e6a0cc3651f5e6fecaf2f003714c/
Russian drones strike enemy infantry near Artemovsk:
https://rutube.ru/video/c1336dec7cb3f883b117644ca92912e2/
Russian T-80 tank in action near Krasny Liman:
https://rutube.ru/video/4c0a41ae4bf19fbca295e10c82fcc5b7/
Russian Grad launcher pounds enemy position near Donetsk:
https://rutube.ru/video/3fb3f2eb72451461c4a81beecd6616d2/
Russian Grad launcher pounds enemy position near Kupyansk:
https://rutube.ru/video/b66d1610dd20e57449a4085bd884d12a/

Posted by: Nate | Dec 6 2023 2:14 utc | 223

I don’t think there is even the most remote possibility that the US/UK will stop pursuing Russia one way or the other.
As the situation in Ukraine changes so will US/UK strategy and guessing what they will do is near impossible. They don’t and won’t give a FF about Ukraine per se, or it’s defeat.

Posted by: Saul Goode | Dec 6 2023 2:15 utc | 224

“Why does anybody assume the US “General Staff” is competent enough to beat a major power in its backyard?..”
Talleyrand@216
They are not unlike the people leading Congress. The selection process is heavily biassed towards producing the likes of Petraeus and Austin- competence is neither measured nor valued, the qualities which earn approval are those of the Service Clubs- “Going along to get along.”
The obsequious and the hypocritical thrive – Napoleon is regarded as an oddball. General Uriah Heap is the man of destiny in the Pentagon of today. And the MIC Board of Directors tomorrow.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 6 2023 2:52 utc | 225

Posted by: knighthawk | Dec 5 2023 22:56 utc | 202
all i know about him comes from boxing, he was a great fighter (probably still not that easy to just drag off him of the street), and i think has great popularity within Ukraine based on that, in way like Imran khan. I don’t know anything about his relationship with oligarchs and Banderites, tho I assume he doesn’t oppose them or he would not have lasted this long. he seems to be casting his lot with Zaluzhnyi in the political dispute in Ukraine.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 6 2023 3:05 utc | 226

Ukraine war is looking more like USA civil war than ever, including likely aftermath.
South didn’t stop until they were *whupped good” by the North, then unconditional surrender, generous treatment of southern soldiers, lots of hot head talk down south about “we goin do it again and teach them damn Yankees!” all the way up when I was boy growing up in Louisiana in the 1960’s but not much action accompanying this big talk. On the contrary, South never attempted another rebellion and Southern whites especially eagerly joined the USA military as soon as they were allowed to do so.
Two differences between USA Civil war aftermath and likely aftermath in Ukraine: no black underclass issue to deal with, no Yankee carpet baggers stealing everything in sight during Reconstruction. In other words, things should go smoother in Ukraine.
Azov battalion veterans will eagerly accept offers of free vodka in exchange for entertaining everyone with tales of heroically holding off the Russians against overwhelming odds, but young Ukrainian boys will look at all the disabled veterans begging in subways with artificial legs or with half their face blown off and think to themselves “на хуй с этим, на хуй с войной”.
USA Civil war was brought to an end by simply bleeding the South white. Ukraine war will be likely end due to similar results brought about through different methods. Bombing attacks will increase as Ukrainian air defense runs out of ammunition, plus there’s the increase in Russian drones. Life is going to be hell in those Ukrainian trenches this winter and casualty rates will rise. But huge numbers of casualties is the only way to break the Ukrainian will to resist. Ukrainian people have to hit bottom and feel despair before their attitude will change.

Posted by: anonposter | Dec 6 2023 3:17 utc | 227

@172 says, “Any wheeling dealing with a future Trump presidency will come after that. Of course there is another aspect to this: Trump himself could dynamite NATO.”
Please do research. There never was nor ever will be any “wheeling dealing” involving Don Trump. He was and is powerless. Pentagon ignored him for 4 yrs. Why do you think media is desperately trying to make Don the nominee, puts him in headlines 24/7, never corrects him when he makes claims that Putin is afraid of him, that he’ll bomb Moscow? Because they have zero fear of him, know he folds like a cheap camera anyway. “Dynamite NATO?” Again, everyone knows Trump has zero power. Unwilling or unable to keep his 2016 promises, instead of resigning, he became staunch promoter of NATO. In Aug. 2017 congress removed all Russia matters from him, gave them to Senate. Medvedev commented at the time that Trump had been humiliated. Trump had long since nullified his own election & should’ve resigned. Knowing Pentagon was ignoring him, in April 2017, trying to make it look like his idea, Trump publicly turned over his Cmdr in Chief duties “to his great generals.” He was happy to sit there for 4 yrs to give spotlight to unelected Ivanka & de facto Pres. Jared Kushner. The instigator of removing Don from Russia was begun in Jan. 2017 by none other than warmonger Lindsey Graham. Trump is now best pals w. Lindsey. If Don wanted to remain in politics, he had no choice but to partner w Lindsey Graham, longtime best pal of vicious mass murderer, the late John McCain.

Posted by: susan mullen | Dec 6 2023 3:33 utc | 228

Exceptionalism ain’t all it’s cracked up to be, eh wot! Clown collage,meet oblivion….

Posted by: nook | Dec 6 2023 3:50 utc | 229

> Because he wants a deal. A terrible mistake…
Julian | Dec 5 2023 15:30 utc | 66
I would not read too much into it. His “regret” might as well be a euphemism for the opposite, a sardonic statement.

Posted by: Nomad | Dec 6 2023 4:25 utc | 230

Newertheless – acc.to the previous comments above of today:
I’d like to give some additional remarks acc.to chances of UAF/US/EU forces to “win” this war.
This “war” is still going to be won today by Soros/Blackrock/B.Gates land masters in UKR, supported by Biden-Clan/Ms.Nuland/Mr.Blinken/Pompeio-Cia friends ..
So, let’s think about some future ‘possibilities for those US-like friends” in the following 2024/25th.
-1 RU has destroyed all in UKR to ruins (even the Western areas on Sumi): that’s not reliable even for the RU-Goc today..
-2 Ru Has gained & stabilized “its” Russian-speaking regions in UKR as has declared by regional elections and is today controlled by its forces along the 1.000 km long front line, by a cease-fire, by its (RF) conditions (contra Mr. Z. former Piano-Cock-Player).
-3 Nothing of point -1 or -2 will occur:
Then the frontier war’s clashes would going declined, but the newest ‘sky-wars’ methods against RF by the NATO will proceed, with unpredictable results on an ever ‘open-end ?’
Why is that necessary?
USA-Householders (Biden clan) hopes to enhance its own Military Production up to 2024/25 to have
it increased it by its MIL-industrial lobby (Boing etc.) with a factor of 200% til then.
Cheers.

Posted by: spare_truth2 | Dec 6 2023 4:28 utc | 231

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ Front #Summary for 5 Dec 2023 by 19:24⚡️
🔹In #Kherson Direction, fierce fighting for #Krynki continues. With astonishing persistence, the AFU are trying to advance from the village southwards towards the forest plantations. Our army is responding by preventing even a metre of expansion from the foothold in the centre of the village. The enemy positions remain under constant fire from our artillery. However, it has not yet been possible to completely cut off the AFU group from supplies. Although our artillery and drone gunners regularly hit boats on the river and try in every possible way to complicate logistics.
🔹In #Zaporozhye Direction, our forces are actively counterattacking at the #Rabotino – #Kopani – #Novoprokopovka – #Verbovoye line. North of #Verbovoye our paratroopers are pushing the AFU further away from our positions. Near #Rabotino the paratroopers are literally beating the enemy out of the landings. None of the AFU’s attempts to counterattack were successful. The Ukrainian command recognised in this morning’s bulletin that the initiative on the #Zaporozhye front is with the Russian Army.
🔹In #SouthDonetsk Direction, near #Urozhaynoye, Russian ATGMs hit an AFU observation post in a water tower. Ours are attacking from the southwest of #Staromayorskoye, but the AFU has so far managed to hold their positions. Ukrainian resources reported sudden assaults by the Russian army in the #Ugledar section. If our forces advance in #Maryinka, our military have chances to reach the rear of the AFU #Ugledar Grouping. By the way, the AFU are trying to bring reinforcements to the outskirts of #Maryinka. Fighting continues there.
🔹In #Donetsk Direction, our army’s offensive is developing on the northern flank of #Avdeyevka. #Stepovoye is mostly under the control of our fighters. Fire work continues on AFU positions towards #Berdychi. The territory of the Coke Plant is literally flooded with fire from our artillery and aviation. On the ground there are battles for the approaches to this AFU defence stronghold. On the southern flank, our military is expanding the zone of control near #Severnoye. Positional battles are being fought near #Tonenkoye.
🔹In #Bakhmut Direction, our army firmly holds the initiative.. In #Kleshcheyevka, ours have approached an AFU stronghold on a height. It is being stormed. At #Andreyevka and #Kurdyumovka there are no tangible advances. On the northern flank near #Khromovo (#Artyomovskoye) and in the area of the dachas, our fighters are expanding their bridgehead. It is reported from the field that they have managed to establish fire control over the Chasov Yar – #Kramatorsk motorway. This will significantly complicate the logistics of the AFU.
🔹In #Svatovo Direction, in #Kupyansk sector, about half of the #Sinkovka village is under the control of our army. Shooting battles are taking place at minimum distances. They also managed to destroy another AFU crossing in #Kupyansk. Thus, the enemy’s logistics have become more complicated in this area as well.

https://t.me/sitreports/19016

Posted by: Down South | Dec 6 2023 4:53 utc | 232

Our source reports that rumors about the tightening of mobilization and conscription of literally everyone to the front provoked panic and negativity towards Zelensky in society.
People began to flee by any means. Border guards catch them every day in batches, and the courts will soon be overwhelmed with cases related to the mobilization case.
The country is entering such powerful turbulence that it may happen that the country will no longer exist. Bankovaya, in agony, does not realize that its actions are leading everything to collapse.
This is what happens when populists, thieves and temporary workers are in power.

https://t.me/legitimniy/16829

Ukraine expects total mobilization, and email will be used from DII databases.
We plan to serve subpoenas via e-mail and registered mail,” the presidential representative in the Rada, Venislavsky.
Notification of the receipt of a registered letter is sent to the post office, and the letter itself with the summons must be given to the person personally by the relevant representatives of the postal services.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/20717

Posted by: Down South | Dec 6 2023 4:59 utc | 233

Our source from the OP said that the Office of the President instructed the SBU to warn administrators and owners of telegram channels about the risks of working with Akhmetov/Poroshenko/Klitschko, who are organizing elite sabotage against Zelensky. All publications on the channels are strictly monitored; any criticism of Bankova will be perceived as treason.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/20704

After communicating with the SBU, all news channels: Trukha / Insider / Monaco Battalion / Ukraine Today and others “missed” the results of the opinion poll, in which Zaluzhny’s party gains 10% more than the conditional Zelensky Bloc.
So much for freedom of speech in Ukraine, even Poroshenko didn’t get to that point in 2019, apparently things are really bad for Bankova.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/20714

Colleagues, it’s very simple. The President’s Office issued an order to “forget” about Zaluzhny. Zaluzhny almost ended up on some kind of hybrid “ban list” from Bankova.
All publications about Zaluzhny must be approved by the functionaries of the OP or the assigned SBU officer. They will either approve or reject the publication. Bankovaya is very afraid of the commander in chief. Moreover, Zelensky demands that Zaluzhny resign.
Also, all Ukrainian admins of any channels/publics/groups leak everything to the SBU and OP. Customers of political and economic advertising are also being drained.
Ermak is trying to keep everything under his own control, making the information field of Ukraine “warm” for himself and Ze.

https://t.me/legitimniy/16834

Posted by: Down South | Dec 6 2023 5:07 utc | 234

@ Jerr | Dec 6 2023 1:37 utc | 218
NATO “little blue men”?
It would help if they would stop jabbering in Polish and English in tactical comms.

Posted by: John Kennard | Dec 6 2023 5:09 utc | 235

Signs of AFU exhaustion by officer in reserve Oleg Shalandin. Part 1 of 2
For several months now, the Ukrainian Armed Forces have been conducting an offensive operation, widely announced in the media, known as the “counter-offensive.” Despite all the media and military-technical support for combat operations, the operation failed, causing far-reaching political and military consequences of this entire adventure.
Let’s try to figure out what the main signs of this exhaustion are.
1) for some time, large volumes of destroyed enemy equipment have ceased to appear in our official reports, and the number of enemy medical losses (including irrecoverable ones) has increased. More and more often on TV screens we see the heads of press centers of operational areas, and the official representative of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Lieutenant General Konashenkov, makes a report, at best, once a week. This suggests that the intensity of hostilities on the part of the Ukrainian Armed Forces has decreased significantly.
2) the number of prisoners began to increase compared to previous periods of the SMO. Moreover, if previously the main contingent of prisoners were men 25-40 years old, now prisoners are not only older men (40-60 years old), but also an increased number of women. This fact indisputably indicates the depletion of the mobilization potential of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
3) there are obvious problems with mobilization in the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The losses of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on the battlefield already exceed 500 thousand people, and according to various sources they are approaching 600 thousand, and there is no one to replenish these losses, people are running out. Representatives of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are already talking in the media about the possibility of conscripting full-time students.
4) the transition of the Ukrainian Armed Forces to defensive actions. Against the backdrop of the obvious failures of Artemovsk, Kleshcheevka and the battles for other populated areas, it becomes clear that the Armed Forces of Ukraine are not able to break through the prepared defense in depth of the Russian Armed Forces, and in the absence of heavy weapons this becomes impossible. 80 Leopards, 60 Abrams and 14 Challengers do not make a difference along the line of combat contact of 1200 kilometers and given that a significant part of this equipment has already been destroyed, the surviving part is only suitable as samples of weapons in the exhibition of military museums.
5) the weakening of international information and military-technical support for the actions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Despite significant reserves of, albeit not new, and not the most advanced, but familiar weapons (let me remind you that by the beginning of hostilities the Ukrainian Armed Forces had 3,500 tanks and armored fighting vehicles at their disposal), these weapons were destroyed. Tanks, artillery, and missile launchers donated by the West are also melting before our eyes, Ukraine is unable to produce ammunition for Soviet weapons, the main enterprises of the military-industrial complex have been destroyed or seriously damaged by Calibers, Lancets and Kinzhals. A military aircraft of the Ukrainian Air Force in the sky is, rather, nonsense than a rarity, since our air defense does not leave the Ukrainian pilot any chance to return to the landing airfield. European NATO allies have raked everything possible out of their arsenals, even to their own detriment, and the production of both equipment and ammunition requires not only time, but also expansion of production, and the bureaucratization of the European military-industrial complex is unable to form government orders. Against this background, voices are already being heard in Europe about the need for negotiations.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/77541

Posted by: Down South | Dec 6 2023 5:15 utc | 236

Signs of AFU exhaustion by officer in reserve Oleg Shalandin. Part 2 of 2
6) the lack of its own military school as a system of views and approaches to conducting armed struggle. The older generation of Ukrainian officers still studied at the Soviet military school, which was taught by inertia even after the collapse of the USSR for some time. Over time, these officers left, new ones arrived, whose level was much lower, and Western instructors completely lowered this bar. The Ukrainian Armed Forces abandoned the Soviet military school without creating their own, and never fully switched to the Western one. Zaluzhny calls himself a student of Gerasimov. This is wrong.
7) the range of weapons of the Armed Forces of Ukraine at the beginning of hostilities was already very large – the Soviet legacy, supplies from the West, civilian models adapted to the needs of the army (primarily this concerns communications and reconnaissance equipment) did not allow fully competent and correct to carry out their combat use, and the logistics of Western models of weapons and military equipment turned out to be clearly insufficient.
The adventure was not in the counteroffensive operation itself and not in ensuring it. From the very beginning, Zelensky’s decision to represent the interests of the West, including in the military sphere, in the post-Soviet space was adventurous. The West, guided by its ideas about non-military methods of warfare, could not imagine a better gift – it would not be NATO that would fight, the self-presentation of the Ukrainian Armed Forces at that time seemed convincing, is it a joke, “the second army in Europe”?
In turn, Zelensky, hoping that he will drag NATO into a military conflict with Russia, will acquire all the preferences in the form of, at a minimum, large-scale supplies of weapons, thus transferring the Armed Forces of Ukraine to NATO standards and honorably accepting membership in the alliance. And then membership in the European Union is just around the corner.
But something went wrong. They were deceived.
Getting rid of illusions is a very valuable acquisition. But it hurts.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/77542

Posted by: Down South | Dec 6 2023 5:17 utc | 237

Posted by: Down South | Dec 6 2023 5:07 utc | 234

.. All publications about Zaluzhny must be approved by the functionaries of the OP or the assigned SBU officer. They will either approve or reject the publication. Bankovaya is very afraid of the commander in chief. Moreover, Zelensky demands that Zaluzhny resign. ..

Thanks, good quotes here, so something is going wrong for/on against Mr. Z (the Ex-piano-cock-player).
Klitschko is now no longer as someone of the darling of the Europeans (as lover by Ms. v.d.Liars darling), no longer he seems to want to go along with US-Pompeio/Nuland/CIA officials and his US/EU friends regarding further Kiev’s non-NAZI policy. Or?
By those news, Zaluzhny + Klitschko together may have a good chance to ‘pause’ the current “war” against RU.
But wait what the basiscs of the “Nazis root” in UKR may respond on that public messages..

Posted by: spare_truth2 | Dec 6 2023 5:31 utc | 238

the only country you see resistance is the one with the most historically developed class consciousness, France.
You’re deluding yourself. Left politicians or chief unionists, here, are just the same bunch of grifters or soft brains or both than the others. They know what’s happening (as for the cleverer ones), so they scramble to loot before there isn’t anymore : “après moi le déluge”behaviour.

Posted by: jean levant | Dec 6 2023 5:34 utc | 239

Can Ukraine even perform a competent withdrawal of its forces to better firmer defensive positions? Doing that with a professional army is hard enough to do right without chaos and panic. The Green force now being deployed is far more likely to skedaddle. The Front seems to be crumbling in several locations. There’re probably some very soft spots in the line not probed by Russia yet.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 6 2023 5:44 utc | 240

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 6 2023 5:44 utc | 240

.. The Front seems to be crumbling in several locations. There’re probably some very soft spots in the line not probed by Russia yet.

No – the front is not yet crumbling at all. Russian soldiers have a lot of dead soldiers by new UKR Drone tactics – that’s a truth.
As you Know/say:
“The front appears to be collapsing in several places”, but according to actual reports, that is not the case at all today.
Female soldiers offer fierce resistance in the remaining trenches (Photos available).
Female soldiers (if with or without having children) are firing with its poorly armed Kalashnikows in their trenches.
What a heroic war!
Mr.Z. (former Cock-Player): GO HOME to Your exile in Florida or elsewhere OverSeas, still offered by USA-Asylum, CIA)!

Posted by: spare_truth2 | Dec 6 2023 6:13 utc | 241

Zelensky scraps briefing with US Senate
The meeting descended into chaos after the Ukrainian leader had unexpectedly bowed out
Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky abruptly canceled a briefing with US senators and White House officials on Tuesday due to a “last-minute” snag, according to a high-ranking Democrat. The sit-down then became heated as lawmakers shifted focus to debate over US border policy and continued aid to Kiev.
Zelensky’s team called off the virtual appearance just moments before it was set to go ahead, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer said, noting that something had come up for the leader without elaborating.
Administration officials were expected to offer updates on a massive military aid package for Israel and Ukraine currently under negotiations in Congress, which the White House has repeatedly urged lawmakers to pass. However, some GOP lawmakers have sought to link new Ukraine aid to funding for US border agencies, with multiple senators threatening to hold up the spending bill unless it includes desired provisions for immigration.
After Zelensky’s sudden cancellation, the briefing grew contentious, with some Republicans, including Senators Deb Fischer and Mitt Romney, even walking out early.
“The point is there’s no answer to any questions down there,” Fischer told Defense News, adding “We’ve had it.” She stressed that she has previously supported all legislation supporting Ukraine, adding that the White House “better be worried. Because I have backed everything.”
President Joe Biden’s top budget official, Shalanda Young, warned that Washington was “out of money” for Kiev earlier this week, stating that “without congressional action, by the end of the year we will run out of resources to procure more weapons and equipment for Ukraine and to provide equipment from US military stocks.”
She went on to note that, as of mid-November, the Pentagon had spent 97% of the $62.3 billion it received for Ukraine this year, while the State Department and US Agency for International Development (USAID) had used up 100% of the funds allocated.
Biden has requested a massive spending package worth $106 billion to fund several priorities of his administration, namely military aid to Ukraine and Israel, but faces opposition from an increasingly skeptical Republican Party.
Though Zelensky ultimately backed out of the Senate briefing without explanation, his chief of staff, Andriy Yermak, made in-person appearances on Capitol Hill on Tuesday to lobby for additional aid to Ukraine. During a speech at the US Institute of Peace in Washington, DC, the official said Kiev faced a “big risk” of defeat should Washington halt its military support.
“We’re at the end of our rope in terms of the existing funding,” an unnamed Zelensky advisor told Politico, adding that the money would not “go beyond December.”
rt

Posted by: chop | Dec 6 2023 6:56 utc | 242

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Dec 5 2023 15:46 utc | 73

………….
Some possible explanations:
2) They couldn’t set it up outside Ukraine because it was communicated through the back channels that this will not be tolerated and those facilities will be bombed (notice that Germany still hasn’t sent Taurus after such threats were made publicly)

where did you get this from ?
has anybody else infos about this claim ?

Posted by: ghiwen | Dec 6 2023 7:29 utc | 243

🇩🇪🇺🇦 ❗️Germany is not an ally of Ukraine, said the head of the German Ministry of Defense Boris Pistorius.
“We are doing what we can. The same applies to almost all other allies and partners. But Germany is not an ally of Ukraine and, therefore, is not part of any alliance,” Pistorius said.

https://t.me/intelslava/53645

Posted by: Down South | Dec 6 2023 7:57 utc | 244

It is far from done when the Ukrainian forces haven’t been pushed out of Donbass. Most all the fighting is in the far eastern parts of Ukraine and the Southeaster parts. Russian forces haven’t been able to take much ground since after the first few weeks. Though Ukrainian forces appear to be weakening and Russian forces are chipping away at it, there is still plenty of fighting left. I think it will last 2-5 more years or will end up like Syria if the war stops before a clear victory.

Posted by: MiniMo | Dec 6 2023 8:44 utc | 245

sorry, but I’ve been in a coma for the last year, and just regained consciousness.
Last I remember, the Victorious Ukrainian forces had encircled Moscow, led in person by the Glorious Piano-****er _elensky. The Russians, meanwhile, had been reduced to last-ditch (sic) defense armed only with entrenching shovels and washing machines. Putin and his first four body-doubles had died of cancer.
Did the good-guys win?
/s

Posted by: retroflecks | Dec 6 2023 8:49 utc | 246

According to Dima, Russia wants to negotiate.
It is a terrible sign of betrayal, of oligarchs and Russian elite still wanting to be loved and accepted in the West.
Only enemies can save Russia from her government.

Posted by: zorge | Dec 6 2023 9:01 utc | 247

Posted by: MiniMo | Dec 6 2023 8:44 utc | 245
Agreed that looking at the map it might seem insignificant to some.
However, the ability of Ukraine to do anything is directly dependent on what Nato is giving them, according to the reports about ATACMS missiles (20 given in October, 0 in November) could indicate shipment of other stuff too to Ukraine has decreased or even is nearly falling off the cliff, which could spell bad events for AFU down the road. We also read in earlier months US aid shipments to Ukraine had nothing else than small arms, some ATGMs and artillery shells, with a few air defense missiles which could confirm this.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 6 2023 9:05 utc | 248

Republican lawmakers walk out of Ukraine aid talks after Zelenskiy cancels
Ukrainian president had been expected to join Zoom call but ‘something came up at the last minute’
I think it’s well and truly “done” now. Fiasco doesn’t begin to cover it.

Posted by: KingCobra | Dec 6 2023 9:08 utc | 249

Posted by: zorge | Dec 6 2023 9:01 utc | 247
If you are referring to what Peskov said? Peskov said nothing new that Putin or Lavrov or anyone else would have said. They know Ukraine has a presidential law against any negotiation, and they know Ukraine will never fulfill the presented requirements so nothing is going to happen.
The real thing is the November 2021 security agreement, but of course, this too seems like it will not occur.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 6 2023 9:09 utc | 250

‘sorry, but I’ve been in a coma for the last year…’
LOL

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Dec 6 2023 9:15 utc | 251

I am a classic armchair general. I play wargames.
I was 90% certain the Ukie Offensive would fail and I was of that opinion before it started: the extensive Kursk-like defences, imbalance in artillery and logistic support, mish-mash of Western equipment, no air cover.
Posted by: JulianJ | Dec 5 2023 8:57 utc | 21
Apologies for selectively quoting you. Me too, and I agree 100% with your analysis. There is no way anyone with even a cursory knowledge of military affairs could ever think this might succeed.
Posted by: marcjf | Dec 5 2023 15:52 utc | 76
Before the start of the SMO, February 2022 I looked at a map and thought all that really needs to be done is to bomb the bridges over the Dneiper, something well with in Russ capacity. No supplies eventually Russia takes all east of the river, just wait it out. That is a simple scenario, the Russians have left them largely intact. Deployed a chess level time frame strategy, while the Biden admin played counter offensive tic tac toe with a strong dose of Prighozin betrayal color revolution for the presumed win.
Anyone know if the blown dam reservoir bottoms will freeze up enough for large scale maneuvers? Many miles of Open terrain, but will the UKrain have any thing left to stop such? Or is it being mined trenched? Maybe next summer? Next winter? From my armchair it looks like an area ripe for big pincer movements.

Posted by: jopalolive | Dec 6 2023 9:18 utc | 252

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/updates-ukraine-funding-again-collapses
simplicius:
“I wanted to try to write a shorter update today so as to not overload those who may still be digesting yesterday’s voluminous mailbag.
The most important developments on the docket are that Zelensky was supposed to address Congress in a classified meeting tonight, which was for some reason cancelled at the last minute. One of the potential explanations is that the Republicans have snubbed Biden and the Democrats’ overtures to unlock the Ukrainian funding, as the Rs simply won’t budge from their demands on securing the border first.
The “secret briefing” initiated by the Democrats for senators, at which it was planned to convince legislators of the importance of speedily agreeing on new aid for Kiev, completely failed The Republicans didn’t even want to listen and walked out of the briefing
What are those demands exactly?
The most relevant ones revolve around asylum and parole laws in immigration proceedings. Republicans want all ‘asylum seekers’ to be detained upon entry while they await their claims to be processed. As of now they’re simply released into the country, allowing any number of them to easily escape without any legal due process.
The Democrats have rejected this, proposing instead a “streamlining” of the asylum claim process, calling Republican proposals “extreme” and claiming they would “end all asylum as we know it, and effectively shut down the border”—yeah, I think that might be the plan.
Even Lindsay Graham has suddenly backed off from his radical warhawk stance and now demands no more aid for Ukraine without securing the border. It seems like both sides are pretty adamant; one can see why—for the Democrats, shutting down illegal immigration would mean losing the next election.”

Posted by: simplicius post | Dec 6 2023 9:23 utc | 253

“ Putin and his first four body-doubles had died of cancer.”
I’m finding this as the most hilarious cope amongst my friends who still imbibe their news from bbc, Sky, tv and talk radio daily pulpits; their stock trading tips from some social media account they can’t wait to believe and like in their daily trading wages. Their utter belief that Ukraine is winning, and Xi is a dictator though they don’t say what that has to do with Russia not losing and particularly their absolute certainty that Putin has doubles! Because they can see with their own eyes the footage on the above mentioned ‘shows’ !
Which if even true would seem to make no sense as to why they are so invested in the fake Putins! Are they ‘worse’ than the real thing?
Lol the discombobulated Losers who bought into The Nazi proxy nato army of the Ukrops , the supposed useless Red Army of Drunk Russians, immediately after 2years old f Covid brainwashing – which just evaporated ! Along with their investments in so many start ups bringing magic cures to the market!!
The fuckwits will never learn , they will never blame themselves for being fools and will never accept that their choice of information is a lying teat they are addicted and surgically attached to! Even when it has been proved to them over the last 3 years that they are being lied to. They blame the kid pointing out the naked emperor as they all think they have bough the same fine suit !😂
Now they’ll all be experts on Venezuela and want to send a TaskForce flotilla just like we did against the Argies in Falklands. Ah well if the Fall is going to be swift it may as well be mighty and final.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 6 2023 9:38 utc | 254

It’s over when it’s over, not before. At this stage it might be considered remiss not to have adapted a cheap, long range platform like Geran into a near-disposable surveillance system to bring remote areas under sufficiently dense real-time surveillance that AA placement was not a workable option.
https://t.me/milinfolive/112030

It is reported that this evening, during a combat mission over the Black Sea, a Su-24M bomber of the Russian Aerospace Forces, operating under the cover of a Su-30SM fighter, was shot down.
A Mi-8 search and rescue team was immediately sent to the scene of the crash, however, after several hours, the results are still disappointing.
The enemy claims that the Su-24M was shot down from the American MIM-104 Patriot air defense system located near Odessa.

Posted by: anon2020 | Dec 6 2023 9:42 utc | 255

Posted by: anon2020 | Dec 6 2023 9:42 utc | 255
What happened to the su-30sm that was in company? Did the patriot miss? And the mi-8 also had clear flight without any issues?

Posted by: Justpassinby | Dec 6 2023 10:37 utc | 256

@bevin | Dec 5 2023 17:10 utc | 95
About the struggle among contenders of power, that you describe as the communist side vs the capitalist side.
I have tried to wake you up about communism being encouraged and supported by those you label capitalist
Whereafter you demonstrated an ignorant and arrogant denial about it.
That is typical of how wellintended but ideologically blinded socialists always argue and the reason why they always have failed.
Russia and China are not anti-socialist but neither ideologically blinded anymore.
The socialism injected by the so called ‘capitalists’ was tested and found ineffective. So now they are guided by pragmatism.
The socialist idea about capitalism being what the US/UK represents are wrong.
In reality they represent an effort to prevent market economy and national development to take place. And instead to make room for an intrinsically evil oligarchic mindset to dominate.
As often explained so much better by Larouche et al than what ideologically minded socialists have ever achieved.
Karl Marx is sometimes quoted for various insightful remarks as proof of his worth but Marx was influenced by people like Adam Smith, a scribe in the service of the East India Company whose aim was to open Britains rivals for looting.
Marx was under the protection of the british empire and said they gave him the best working conditions of his life.
And Marx was successfully used against Britains rivals.
His contemorary Richard Wagner in Germany had Bakunin as his subordinate despite what court historians claim. Wagner escaped punishment despite committing treason probably because he was seen as an asset for Britain.
Marx was just one of many activists run by British-led networks all over the world.
It is a serious fault on behalf of socialists who have ambitions to explain reality to ALWAYS avoid ever seriously considering that background and guarantees continued failure.
If I hated socialists I would welcome that failure. But I dont hate them. I just regret that they are so blind and so easily used by those they nominally see as their enemies.
I can see multiple future developments and I have no fanatical beliefs either way. I just wish socialists would wake up.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Dec 6 2023 10:43 utc | 257

“I don’t think there is even the most remote possibility that the US/UK will stop pursuing Russia one way or the other.
As the situation in Ukraine changes so will US/UK strategy and guessing what they will do is near impossible. They don’t and won’t give a FF about Ukraine per se, or it’s defeat.
Posted by: Saul Goode | Dec 6 2023 2:15 utc | 224”
You are probably right that the US/UK aggressive obsession with Russia will not abate any time soon. I don’t think that anyone, least of all the Russians, expects this as a precondition for peace in Ukraine and elsewhere. What will blunt this obsession will be the inevitable economic decline of the collective West. I wonder if the Russian leadership has this in mind when they plan their slow strangulation of the Ukrainian regime. Death by a thousand (economic) cuts of the US/UK/EU cabal then comes as a bonus.

Posted by: Pagan | Dec 6 2023 10:50 utc | 258

re: if the USUKIS (MIC, Banksters, & Oligarchy) could ever consider re-orienting themselves away from chaos & destruction for profit and sadism…
Russia is just a convenient boogeyman to scare the wastern populi.
In which hypothetical universe could matters be so arranged, that the evil oligarchy types could embrace using their ‘powers’ for good, rather than evil? Greed and Power are their primary motivations… so how could the world be re-organized such that destruction was Less Profitable than an alternative?
(insert here image of ‘Star Trek Next Generation’ pointy-toothed Ferengi looking shocked and saying “No Profit?!”)

Posted by: retroflecks | Dec 6 2023 11:05 utc | 259

Posted by: Pagan | Dec 6 2023 10:50 utc | 258
The SMO will not end through conquest, but it could end through simply making rest of Ukraine unsustainable for the west. All signs point that people inside Ukraine are fed up. Russia on the other hand can keep it up, because they have not over extended and don’t have large civilian population to support near the combat lines.
Russia’s goal is to avoid “capturing” large swaths of territory at once, which would create necessity of supporting large amounts of ungrateful mouths.
The west is not supporting central parts of Ukraine. It could lead to central parts of Ukraine moving west instead.
Nato probably has troops in place in Lwow to capture it for Poland under humanitarian guise.
The central part of Ukraine will be left unsupported by anyone, i.e. no one will “own” it, leading to eventual depopulation. If that happens, the land will end up on Russia’s lap over coming years, anyway.
The best case scenario for Russia is if they get China and other BRICS members to invest in the part of Ukraine they control. Even the central part could eventually be rebuilt and repopulated through various investment schemes. Meanwhile BlackRock will rip off the west. Western Ukraine under Nato is doomed to become a failure, too.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 6 2023 11:33 utc | 260

simplicimus post
yup
and Germanic Pistorius today says “Germany and Ukraine are not in an alliance”.. it just supplies….not sure if he is saying Ger.and USA are of course in Nato alliance and the chances of Ukr being such are zilch…whether this is also an option to stop weapons supplies due to the economy…. Rhein metal says has big contracts for 70000 shells soonish and in 2024 sayscan supply 700000 as has factories in various countties
Various EU countries are still funding and attempting supply of eg F16 . more Polish Krab coming… are more Abrams due.. South Korea is supplying shells but enough guns and manpower to fire them…..???
Funds still coming in about 38b I seem to recall eg World Bank IMF individual EU countries lije Norway..certainly Germany has “proposals” for 5b a year but under review or panic … but Slovakia is calling a halt…Bulgaria stops supply of armoured vehicles and Hungary especially trying to get EU to see “reason” re EU membership in news rt and sputnik today… calls out Baerbock too.
Poland is still on about the Russian threat says has 3 years before Russia invades but maybe this is just about continuing to be USA stoolpidgeon and getting the dollars to pretend Polish government still has a meaning re Ukraine though of course commercial interests eg truckers farmers along Ukraine border are exposing realities of delusional politics of those affected.. whether that is sufficient to review as Hungary is kinda insisting the broken and divided EU intentions promises hope re Ukraine is interesting .

Posted by: Jo | Dec 6 2023 11:46 utc | 261

@LightYearsFromHome
Bloody hell, you’ve broken through to next level clarity!
Marvellous stuff.

Posted by: anon2020 | Dec 6 2023 13:41 utc | 262

The same intel (Light Forces) that created our solar system know what They are doing. Look on the bright side if you can.


“Tactica Adversa is the tactical exhausting of the adverse. Precisely, when the Light Forces wish to fulfill some plan on Earth, They make allowances for all possibilities, envisioning even the worst circumstances, so that success can be guaranteed even under the worst conditions. … Thus, from the worst is derived a benefit. When such tactics are applied, the enemies often contribute to the success. – Helena Roerich, LHR I, p 448
“We think, and our leaders think, that we can go on in the old ways, exactly as we have done — more competition, more greed, more of the same, and it will just go on, we will win. It is not so any longer; it does not work. If two-thirds of the world’s population are living in poverty then the economic system does not work. If we think that they will go on without asking that it work for them, then we are sorely out of step with reality. – Benjamin Creme

Posted by: Toby C | Dec 6 2023 14:45 utc | 263

@ Feral Finster 107
“The West will try guerilla warfare, but …”
That would be a repeat of 1945-1955. We know how that ended, but it cost 150,000 live, according to Scott Ritter.
Second time around, I guess for forer Ukrainian people will be more divided. Most will realize how their treasonous leaders wasted a half million lives in battle and sold off the good farmland to American corporations. But the Nazis may be even more fanatic that in the last guerilla war. So perhaps the two populations will fight a civil war. Ironically, that’s about the only way any sort of “Ukraine” could emerge. The replay could be as bloody as the 1945-55 war. But this time, I”m certain there will be no Khrushchev letting the Nazis out of prison after a few years.

Posted by: JessDTruth | Dec 6 2023 17:30 utc | 264

His “regret” might as well be a euphemism for the opposite, a sardonic statement.
Posted by: Nomad | Dec 6 2023 4:25 utc | 230

Riiiight. Read your O.Henry, “The Roads We Take”:
– “You don’t know how bad I feel,” he sighed, “about that sorrel of yourn breakin’ his leg, Bob.”

Posted by: Poslan1 | Dec 6 2023 17:33 utc | 265

@ Trubind1 126
“Anyways, I , along with others here believe the final push and finishing off of Ukraine will be metered & scheduled for summer 2024.”
We should take a pool on when the “final finishing off” of Ukraine will happen. That might provide a form of collective wisdom, or an indicator of we are living in a sort of echo-chamber. A pool would help us figure it out.
I put my marker on October 2025, as a “maybe”. RF Defense Minister Shoigu also said “2025.” Cold weather might persuade the Ukies to surrender while there’s still time to do something about the approaching winter, so an October is more likely.
2024 is too soon. The schedule is set more by the global struggle to end the West’s hegemony than by anything happening in “Ukraine”. It will take at least until 2025 to get the various global “tipping points” set up to irretrievably end Western hegemony. The “final collapse” could still be years down the road, and the landing might be so smooth we could hardly put a date on it. The Chinese want a soft landing, and they are more in the driver’s seat on this, than the Russians. I think we can be sure there will be no negotiations with the West in 2024, not with Biden, Trump, Newsom or RFK Jr.
I think the political, moral, cultural, economic and religious basis for post-404 will take a long time to put into place, and Russia will not want Kiev’s collapse before the outlines of these basic things start to be put into place.
So, October 2025 for Kiev to lose all authority over the 404 borderlands. That’s my guess.
What is your guess ?

Posted by: JessDTruth | Dec 6 2023 18:23 utc | 266

Any place they are in a clump: good. We’ll blow the clump. From a distance. With total precision. Haven’t you see it? They fly the drones right in the doorway.
Posted by: arthur brogard | Dec 5 2023 10:25 utc | 30
True for now…How long before bunkers have EW or EMP weapons?… How long before doorways contain switchbacks and blast barriers? Should be in the works already.

Posted by: Snowleopard | Dec 6 2023 21:03 utc | 267

In what world would Biden concede?

Parliament holds Joe Biden in contempt over Afghanistan

Even as Biden policy kills Ukrainians, destroys Ukraine, causes stress fractures in NATO and the EU, burdens generations of US citizens with debt, increases the chance of Nuclear war, the failed US president cannot stop.
“Toe-to-toe”, and the security state cannot handle the increasingly obvious failure of US military adventurism, nor the autocratic use of US worldwide financial institutions. The next administration, God Willing!, will clean up the train wreck, and recover what it can.

Posted by: Dante | Dec 7 2023 19:53 utc | 268