“The Bogus Historians Who Teach Evangelicals They Live in a Theocracy- Politico”
I’m glad someone is taking the Religious Right seriously! Dominionists are as dangerous in their way as Dispensationalists.

Posted by: lester | Dec 4 2023 19:14 utc | 103

US is strangling Europe continuously harder. Europe is choking to death.
Posted by: unimperator | Dec 4 2023 2:33 utc | 83
……………………..
Define ‘US’ please.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 4 2023 19:51 utc | 105

ZH has a posting up about Biden corruption that looks damming

“Today, the House Oversight Committee is releasing subpoenaed bank records that show Hunter Biden’s business entity, Owasco PC, made direct monthly payments to Joe Biden. This wasn’t a payment from Hunter Biden’s personal account but an account for his corporation that received payments from China and other shady corners of the world,” Comer says in the video, adding that the payments began in September 2018 – six months before Biden announced his candidacy in the 2020 election.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 4 2023 21:46 utc | 107

And to all the mouth droolers about AI there is this posting title from The Register
Boffins find asking ChatGPT to repeat key words can expose its training data
The lines of GIGO are blurred by the speed of its easily caused stupidity
GIGO = Garbage In, Garbage Out

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 4 2023 21:59 utc | 109

Posted by: james | Dec 4 2023 16:31 utc | 102
You are welcome, james, and it is fine that you have books to read! Also welcome is Patroklos – it’s more in his field in any case. I did start late last night feeding in another post – but I must have forgotten that it only was in preview, so I will see if I can redo it here. This is from the beginning of the article entitled “Plato: User’s Guide” (If I somehow put it on the wrong thread, apologies for that):

… Plato didn’t write his dialogues as independent works … but actually as a single work in 28 volumes … a work meant to accompany the student … intent on embracing a political career …The question which is at the root of all this, asked in the opening dialogue and remaining in the background of all others, is the following: “What entitles a human being to rule over fellow human beings? What skills must one have to play that role?…”

I was intrigued by this introductory section, and have bolded the phrase which makes the study of Platonic dialogues a timely one for this forum. I wouldn’t myself have used the word ‘rule’, preferring ‘govern’ in its stead, but the Dialogues take place in ancient Greece, so ‘rule’ it is.
I won’t do more than cover a few interesting bits – so far I’m only four pages in. But being the weird soul I be, I do love Plato, even while often not understanding where he is leading me. I will give an example of what I mean in my next post tomorrow.

Posted by: juliania | Dec 5 2023 0:41 utc | 111

Steve Kirsch (MIT) obtained covid data from a New Zealand database analyst whistle blower and processed the data. Also processed US Medicare data. Estimates 13-17 million died due to mRNA vaccines (1 in 1000) worldwide, 675.000 in the US.
https://rumble.com/v3z9bbi-bombshell-covid-vaxx-killed-millions-worldwide-leaked-whistleblower-data.html
https://kirschsubstack.com/
https://rumble.com/v3yovx4-vsrf-live-104-exclusive-mit-speech-by-steve-kirsch.html

Posted by: Thurl | Dec 5 2023 1:51 utc | 113

Looking forward to the great Zakharovas press conference tomorrow morning – always good for some zingers.
In the meantime some statements by Putin and co being statesmen like, to start this Tuesday predawn off via the MFA site on telegram.
“🇷🇺 Russian President Vladimir Putin on the 75th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights during his meeting with the Presidential Council for Civil Society and Human Rights:
📍 December 4, 2023
🇺🇳 December 10 marks the 75th anniversary of the adoption by the UN of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Unfortunately, we commemorate this milestone in a challenging situation, as the international system for ensuring and promoting human rights continues to deteriorate. Its institutions, inherently controlled by the West, display political bias, hypocrisy and undisguised selectivity.
❗ For eight years, we have been witnessing their helplessness and direct disregard for the gross violations against the people of Donbass. These human rights bodies not only failed to recognize, but even encouraged manifestations of Russophobia, supporting the countries that rushed to take the lead in this shameful competition of Russophobes.
🤝 As you know, Russia withdrew from a number of international human rights organizations, but this does not mean that we are abandoning the principles laid down in the Universal Declaration. On the contrary, we are ready to cooperate with all interested parties and partners, to find solutions for forming an effective, fair and equal system for ensuring human rights for everyone.
🇷🇺 President of Russia Vladimir Putin received the letters of credence from 21 newly appointed foreign ambassadors. By tradition, the ceremony took place in the Alexander Hall of the Grand Kremlin Palace.
🇧🇮🇪🇹🇰🇿🇲🇱🇰🇷🇬🇲🇩🇪🇸🇬🇸🇪🇸🇮🇱🇺
🇵🇰🇩🇿🇰🇼🇦🇺🇲🇷🇹🇷🇬🇧🇹🇲🇬🇷🇩🇴
💬 President Putin: The world entered a time of turbulence. It is undergoing drastic transformation. The underlying change is that the former unipolar world system is being replaced by a new, more just multipolar world order.
We pursue an independent, consistent, and principled foreign policy, and we are open to constructive partnerships with all countries without exception, and do not accept bloc confrontation or any steps that run counter to the UN Charter.
We expect that all our international partners will adhere to the principles of equality and mutual respect for each other’s interests.
👉 Next year, Russia will have a number of important foreign policy functions. We will be the first to chair the expanded BRICS association. And we will do our best to help the new members smoothly integrate into the activities of this organisation.
👉 Next year, Russia will also chair the Commonwealth of Independent States – our closest natural partners. And we aim to contribute to building up diverse interaction between them.
👉 We will also further develop integration processes in the Eurasian Economic Union and deepen cooperation within the Collective Security Treaty Organisation.
👉 We will pay special attention to working with our partners in the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, which became the institutional pillar of Greater Eurasia after India, Pakistan and Iran joined the organisation.”
Looks like they ain’t slowing down as December flies by. Next year is going to be further accelerated multipolar world. The final paragraph about India/Pakistan and especially Iran as full SCO members is the main event.
The latest hypersonics are the actual wonder weapons and technology that settles the arguments. The carriers groups that resemble ducks in a barrel are begging, begging , to be first in line to receive their servings.
I expect some surprise demise of hardly heard of western oligarchy as the scores get settled, they overplayed their hands , they got caught with their bluffs and they murdered tens of thousands , millions over the decades of this century so far.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 5 2023 5:44 utc | 115

Housing bubble in Canada:
https://invezz.com/news/2023/10/06/canada-housing-bubble-bursting-is-inevitable-analyst-says/
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/canada-likely-sitting-on-the-largest-housing-bubble-of-all-time-strategist-1.1962134

Posted by: Mr. Market | Dec 5 2023 7:52 utc | 117

An interesting window into guerrilla MLRS tactics. Note that the number of rocket guides fitted to the vehicle do not appear to be maximised and the unguided 122mm rockets (presumably Grad) pose a limited threat. Even at the same caliber, larger salvos of more accurate missiles could be devastating and would be extremely difficult to counter before the rockets are in the air. As a point of reference, when was the last report of a HIMARS launcher being destroyed?
https://t.me/belarusian_silovik/26657

The pro-Iranian group converted the tanker into an MLRS.
On December 3, fifteen 122mm rockets were fired from Iraq at the American base in Rumeilan in Syria. There were no personnel injuries or equipment damage
It is noted that the task force discovered the location from which the missiles were fired and transmitted this information to Iraqi security forces.
A tanker modified to launch up to 20 missiles was found at the site.

https://t.me/rybar/54742

🇮🇷🇺🇸🇸🇾 These shots are rare in their own way: usually shelling of American military facilities by pro-Iranian forces does not fall into camera lenses. Here the cameraman was able to even film the moment the missiles launched in the direction of the US base in northeastern Syria.
The launcher was a tanker, whose roof was cut off and 20 guides for 122-mm rockets were built into the tank. The use of such ersatz MLRS has been a common practice for Iranian-backed groups since the American occupation of Iraq.
However, such machines are also not without their drawbacks, and the price for secrecy comes at the price of accuracy: in the video, the missiles are launched not even from a stationary position, but directly in motion. There is no need to talk about any targeted salvo in such conditions.
This partly explains why the mass of such strikes by pro-Iranian formations does not cause significant damage to US bases in Iraq and Syria. Although it allows us to keep American troops in constant tension.
#Iran #Syria #USA
@rybar

Posted by: anon2020 | Dec 5 2023 12:22 utc | 119

As good a description of what happened on Jan 6th – and mercifully short – as have read. Accurate too.
https://stream.org/the-why-is-now-obvious/

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 5 2023 19:32 utc | 121

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 5 2023 19:32 utc | 124

… The only obvious answer to why Pelosi wanted to guarantee a riotous breach of the Capitol was what she knew would be the actual results of the Electoral College vote if the process were allowed to run its course. Senators Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley, among others, were all set to formally challenging election results in several swing states, meaning hours upon hours of presenting the case in both the House and Senate for fraud, error and illegality, broadcast live across the nation. And despite what many have debated, there was tangible potential for V.P. Pence to delay the certification of the states being challenged for a couple of weeks to look into the evidence of significant vote-tampering and fraud….

Thank you, Scorpion! Indeed, that answers my questions as to how the events unfolded, sort of tsunami-wise for those caught up in it, so that only now does the obvious reason for open access to the Capitol chambers become just that – obvious!

Posted by: juliania | Dec 6 2023 0:13 utc | 123

@ juliania | Dec 6 2023 1:10 utc | 127
thanks juliania, for trying to help me understand what you are looking into more closely.. i have never read plato, or only very little.. i know heraclitus refers to him sometimes, or maybe it was dionysus.. it was probably dionysus as heraclitus was before plato… you might find this very interesting.. this is from heraclitus book ‘fragments’..
“Although this Logos is eternally valid, yet men are unable to understand it – not only before hearing it, but even after they have heard it for the first time … though all things come to pass in accordance with this Logos, men seem to be quite without any experience of it … My own method is to distinguish each thing according to its nature, and to specify how it behaves; other men, on the contrary, are as forgetful and heedless in their waking moments of what is going on around and within them as they are during sleep.”
What does Heraclitus mean by “Logos”? The literal Greek translation is “word” and it is sometimes rendered as “account.” He is saying that what follows in the book is an account of something timeless and truthful: an unseen force, not that different from the biblical “Word” or the “Tao” in Taoism, which reg- ulates and runs the universe.”
see the link for more insights.
Heraclitus and the Birth of the Logos
another idea i have always held onto – mythos was before logos… not sure if that has any relevance here..

Posted by: james | Dec 6 2023 1:29 utc | 125

another idea i have always held onto – mythos was before logos… not sure if that has any relevance here..
Posted by: james | Dec 6 2023 1:29 utc | 128
Indeed it does, james, as that was my original question, as to what Plato is doing with myth in the dialogues. I already remember that in THe Republic Socrates tears apart Homer’s characterizations of the gods and his depiction of Achilles, giving his own elaborate myth at the conclusion of the dialogue. (He tears Homer apart, excluding such poets from his perfect state — BUT…he knows Homer by heart!)
I wish we could have given Netanyahu a better myth! Like Socrates, he would not need to banish the myth he loves from his heart, just allow others to observe a gentler version of it.
And, as to the translation we all should be aware of, philosophia does mean ‘love of wisdom’, which for Plato is not an abstract, mathematical concept: you have to love it; if you don’t you are a sophist!
Next time we come to the concept of goodness, and goodness is what we all find easy to love, even when we disagree as to its nature. So apologies for these difficulties; next time will be easier!

Posted by: juliania | Dec 6 2023 2:20 utc | 127

But yes, james, I am not sure what you mean by saying ‘that is not what is implied here,’ as I did give the many different meanings, and certainly what Plato writes is also part of logos Plato himself uses the word in many different contexts — I don’t know Heraclitus so I can’t say how he understands it except as I have said. The myth that Socrates takes apart in ‘The Republic’ is Homer’s version; Socrates takes it apart by means of logos, which might be interpreted as his ‘reason’ or ‘ground for denying something’ in terms of the many meanings for the word. So, as you say, logos comes after mythos there. He then later corrects the myth, giving his own version, though I am not entirely sure why. I suspect it may be because the state he has been constructing has become impossibly difficult to believe in. (At least to me it is.)
You can’t really translate ‘logos’ as one single english word or words all the time, just as in many languages you cannot find an exact equivalent for a single word in that language. Languages have unique histories that words pass through, different pathways to the final one which incorporates them all. You can, however find the exact english meaning for a word as it stands in a certain context, but there might be many different words in english to try till you get the right one or ones for that particular context, especially in Plato’s Greek usages.

Posted by: juliania | Dec 6 2023 3:26 utc | 129

juliania… maybe that is my confusion then and i apologize for sharing it… heraclitus implies logos is much more then ‘the word’… and that is how i have always thought of it too – words, written words – logos.. very different then the quote from the book of john.. first there was the word and the word was with god and the word was god… that is a different type of logos – i think that is what heraclitus was implying with the use of the term logos.. something that transcends different interpretations and is more like the universal truth of something along those lines..
for me that is the problem with the use of language.. words can be interpreted any number of ways and indeed they are by ordinary people all the time.. so i don’t know what heraclitus means by logos, because he is implying something different.. i don’t know if heraclitus and plato were on the same page with regard to this either.. i really know very little of heraclitus and basically nothing on plato.. the quote i was looking for was from either heraclitus or dionysus on plato to the effect – its an endless conversation with plato.. clearly plato wrote a lot… the same can’t be said for the other 2 philosophers.. i am not sure where this leaves us, other then i rarely get a chance to discuss these kinds of ideas with others, so thanks for engaging me this far!

Posted by: james | Dec 6 2023 3:56 utc | 131

I’m off to bed, james, but thank you – this has been worthwhile for me. If it will help, here is the quote at the very beginning of the user guide:
PLATO (the philosopher): USER’S GUIDE
(version of December 6, 2016, emended April 6, 2020)
“Unless either the philosophers become kings in the cities or those who are
nowadays called kings and rulers get to philosophizing truly and adequately,
and this falls together upon the same person, political power and philosophy,
while the many natures of those who are driven toward the one apart from
the other are forcibly set aside, there will be no cessation of evils, my dear
Glaucon, for cities, nor, methinks, for the human race.”
Plato, République, V, 473c11-d6

Posted by: juliania | Dec 6 2023 5:01 utc | 133

Considered with my @101, this is a reminder to any travellers to the Caribbean this holiday season, to take local warnings seriously.
2 Canadians dead in Antigua
https://globalnews.ca/news/10150906/canadians-dead-antigua/
“The Antigua and Barbuda Defence Force said in a press release that a 911 call came in on Nov. 30 at around 6:45 a.m. about a woman and child entering the water at a rock formation locally known as Devil’s Bridge.
The release said members of the force had to navigate choppy waters before locating the bodies of both people, as well as a “visibly distraught” man who survived.”
Senior Iranian official caught in Toronto. Living there.That’d be Iran’s deputy minister of the interior.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10145085/senior-iranian-official-caught-toronto-seyed-salman-samani/
Satirical Canadian news site, The Beaverton, has a couple recent posts from Toronto:
Scientists confirm that Kraft Dinner never once successfully fed four people
https://x.com/TheBeaverton/status/1731743676085256645
Frustrated driver keeps one wheel in bike lane to show cyclists how it’s used
https://x.com/TheBeaverton/status/1732180550243549597

Posted by: Bruised Northerner | Dec 6 2023 13:31 utc | 135

Don’t know if this was posted already but seems quite important:
Barry Young NZ Data Admin leaks official health records showing high mortality of of Covid jabs
Every batch had a different mortality rate but the worst batch had a rate of over 21% (sic!) people dying within the 14 days after injection. Of course all those killed were counted as unvaccinated.
The whistleblower is now in custody and the NZ media is burying the story as much as possible.

Posted by: fk | Dec 6 2023 15:23 utc | 137

@ bevin | Dec 6 2023 15:45 utc | 141
it would be okay if they did the same on declaring palestines right to exist too, but i take it they don’t… what a load of bullshit…

Posted by: james | Dec 6 2023 17:31 utc | 139

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 6 2023 17:49 utc | 143
Glad to comment on the Politico article, looks to be boiler plate CIA crap that is
fed to the western MSM, if one collected them it would be easy to have 1000’s.

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Dec 6 2023 18:05 utc | 141

Posted by: SwissArmyMan | Dec 6 2023 18:05 utc | 144
Posted by: james | Dec 6 2023 18:07 utc | 145
Thank you, but did you read what I asked?
1. I asked how many removals were confirmed (regardless of reason and certainly not motivation invoked)
2. If there had been and effective deactivation of western compromised assets in any of those cases (interesting to see if any such attempts had been successful in the past and improvement of efficiency in the clean up)
3. The issue of rocket force restructuring, it seems plausible that as its size and role expanded the leader’s profile would have to change.
And yes, I still read MSN, often to see what can be seen beyond the intended message. Mainly what they recognize between the lines (e.g. in 2 that their efforts are being effectively countered. Remember the extrapolations of true AFU casualties from sociological studies and from amputees? That’s the general idea, the problem is not reading MSM, it’s taking it at face value, as a starting point for sifting and exchanges I don’t think it’s bad and I hadn’t taken the time to form and opinion on the article’s events, someone heere might and may share that work)
I now know that for the both of you it is no more than a psy-op (as I asked in the first place), if you don’t mind I’d also like to hear from anyone who might add a link or a comment about the other implications I mentioned.
Thank you

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 6 2023 19:24 utc | 143

the best way to serve propaganda is to mix in some truth with the arsenic…that is the problem with a lot of articles in the msm, including the one you shared… that is my general answer to your specific questions..
Posted by: james | Dec 6 2023 23:31 utc | 147
That’s why I sift through it carefully …
But I can accept a more critical position

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 7 2023 0:09 utc | 145

Posted by: james | Dec 6 2023 5:16 utc | 137
Thanks, james, a lot to consider there!
I will give the post I was intending here first,so as not to lose my focus (easily done, that) then return to your points of interest.
Here will be my final ‘first four pages’ attempt at understanding Bernard Suzanne’s introductory essay, after which I will take a break till the next WiR to myself read more of the essay. And if there are any comments on this bit, we can take it up here or on the interim open forum tomorrow.
This will be in Suzanne’s own words for a start:

…in The Republic, the logical center of this educational journey and its cornerstone, Plato had given his readers a clue on what could serve as a starting point and guiding principle to apply the principle of validation by experience when leaving the sensible realm, [see, james,you were way ahead of me!] namely the idea of the good… as any human being always acts in view of what he/she believes, rightly or wrongly, to be good for himself/herself but may realize over time that what he/she thought at an earlier time as good for himself/herself may turn out to have consequences that, based on his or her own criteria of good and bad, he/she now deems bad for himself/herself; which thus proves that the good has an “objective” reality that doesn’t depend on what each one thinks about it, and invites us to seek through dialogue and the sharing of individual experience what is truly good…

I thought about putting all that in my own words, but it is a pretty simple, if extended, his/her sentence. Mercifully the next few are shorter, so I’ll put them in a separate followon post.

Posted by: juliania | Dec 7 2023 1:25 utc | 147

@ juliania | Dec 7 2023 1:25 utc | 150
thanks juliania.. i like that quote from suzanne and the idea of knowing good for bad and etc.. when you think of it, sometimes living more life and having the benefit of reflection on the past is quite helpful.. we can think of actions we took and the results and reconsider if there might have been a better way.. i certainly can think of various instances where at the time i thought it was a good or right thing to do, only to realize many years later that i was wrong in that regard!! so perhaps that is my ego disconnected from the objective, and my ability to convince myself of something that in retrospect, i was wrong about.. humility is a good thing, lol.. we could certainly use more of it in the world, especially on the part of our leaders!! instead it is typically missing..
the quote in @ 151 is also helpful and no – you haven’t led me astray, lol! enjoy your time of quietude and self reflection, reading and etc.. hopefully we catch up on the weekend with more insights to share..

Posted by: james | Dec 7 2023 2:20 utc | 149

@ suzan | Dec 7 2023 3:50 utc | 153
thanks suzan! very interesting! i recognize a number of familiar russian faces in it all..

Posted by: james | Dec 7 2023 5:26 utc | 151

Newbie | Dec 6 2023 17:49 utc | 143
Turgid black propaganda with lashings of Sophist rhetoric. Guaranteed Pure US Corp Think Tank Elite Bunkum intended to poison the minds of as many readers as possible. Give a dog a bad name and it sticks.
Yes the anti-corruption campaign removed thousands …. millions? The information is all reported on in China. Go read some English language China news sites and slowly re-educate yourself. And follow the China Ministry of Foreign affairs is my tip.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 7 2023 12:03 utc | 153