Palestine Open Thread 2023-321

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December 29, 2023

Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on December 29, 2023 at 15:46 UTC | Permalink

Comments

So, a colonial power (Britain) decided to give some land belonging to Arab (Palestinian) to the Jews for a homeland. How mighty white of them!
Posted by: Ed | Dec 30 2023 0:41 utc | 134
So very maliciously kind of the white massa to give something that did not belong to them in the first place.
They should now make up for that crime by giving up a portion of the island they live on, to the victims of their colonial crime. At least they have sovereignty of the island they inhabit.

Posted by: Joey | Dec 30 2023 9:50 utc | 201

Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 29 2023 22:00 utc | 101
Posted by: pq | Dec 30 2023 9:32 utc | 203
I hope the South Africans are prepared for a full spectrum backlash by the Jewish lobby in South Africa, who are a very zionist bunch with an illustrious criminal history.
Brace for every destabilising trick in the book to play out in that land over the next few months …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 30 2023 9:50 utc | 202

The International Criminal Court put out an arrest warrant for Vladimir Putin.
The result was that Putin could not attend a BRICS meeting in South Africa.
Now South Africa has filed a case at the International Criminal Court against Israel, for genocidal acts in Gaza.

Posted by: Passerby | Dec 30 2023 10:04 utc | 203

@Exile
Please can you elaborate on the Yamashita Doctrine present in the ICJ application? It is not mentioned by name but I suppose you mean that it is implied in the naming of specific Israeli characters?
The application says that hostage release is outside the purview of the ICJ (thank God) but the measures outlined in the application should faciitate the release which is true.
Next steps???
In the case of Ukraine vs Russia (2022), Ukraine quickly whipped out a document on 26/2/2022 saying that genocide was not occurring in Donbas as alleged by Russia and therefore Russia had no basis for the SMO. The ICJ got off its backside and equally speedily whipped out a document on March 16 2022 ordering Russia to stop the SMO.
And the SMO is ongoing…
From the Ukraine 2022 ICJ application:
“In his address of 21 February 2022, the President of the Russian Federation referred to “horror and genocide” allegedly suffered by Donbas communities at the hands of the State of Ukraine as the basis to “take a long overdue decision and to
immediately recognise the independence and sovereignty of the Donetsk People’s Republic and the Luhansk People’s Republic”
(b) In his address to the Russian people on the morning of 24 February 2022, President Putin similarly explained that the purpose of the military operation against Ukraine was “to stop that atrocity, that genocide of the millions of people who live there and who pinned their hopes on Russia”
In remarks to the United Nations Security Council on 23 February 2022, the Permanent Representative of the Russian Federation asserted that President Putin “decided to start a military operation in Donbas” and that “[t]he goal of this special operation is protection of people who have been victimized and exposed to genocide by the Kiev regime”.
The Permanent Representative continued: “To ensure this, we will seek demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine.”5
(d) At a press conference on 25 February 2022, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov also justified Russia’s military actions against Ukraine as “preventing the neo-Nazis and those who promote methods of genocide from ruling this
country”
(e) In an interview on 25 February 2022, the Russian Ambassador to the European Union was asked about President Putin’s reference to genocide as justification for Russia’s unlawful acts against Ukraine and said, “[w]e can turn to the official term of genocide as coined in international law. If you read the definition it fits pretty well.”
Considering these statements by Russia on genocide in Donbas, imho there is no doubt they are acting in bad faith on Palestine. I accept they have an obligation only to national self interest, they are busy fighting a bloody war.
But it’s not that hard to STFU about comparing Palestinians to Ukronazis as Lavrov did in his interview published on the Russia government MFA site. Literally you have to only stay silent.
It would have been nice if they made ONE verbal statement saying that if genocide was happening in Donbas over 8 years it clearly is happening in Palestine (x 1,000,000) and for much longer.
Just one verbal statement. No action requested. Why is it important? It’s important for BRICS to show a united front.
Russia is powerful in the UN. It was one of the Quartet players obstructing Palestinian rights in partnership with the US, EU and UN.
My “conspiracy theory” is that Russia is hoping that by supporting Israel it can save its $300 billion in assets they want to confiscate because the Zionist lobby can influence that. Also an election.
Regarding the discussion about whether multipolar world is “better or worse”, I suggest not thinking of perpetuating the simplistic good vs evil paradigm.
Rather ask: does it help move away from some of the systemic deficiences of the Rules Based Order? And then go into details about currency, trade etc.
Don’t worry about the WEF either. They have their plans. The succces of those plans depends 100% on people believing that WEF can control you.
https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/182/182-20220227-APP-01-00-EN.pdf

Posted by: pq | Dec 30 2023 10:23 utc | 204

You cannot wake someone pretending to be asleep.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 30 2023 3:17 utc | 154
Of course you’re right, my comment was not meant for the troll, but for the many readers of this bar, who should be aware of their lies.

Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Dec 30 2023 10:32 utc | 205

Are you unaware of all the aid flowing into gaza and the IDF warnings for civilians to flee targeted sections and that Hamas uses human shields and IDF extensive use of smart bombs and even IDF “dumb” bombs have calibrated trajectories.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 30 2023 7:05 utc | 186
When even Reuters reports that Israel orders Gazans to flee, bombs where it sends them, all of your meaningless excuses collapse.

Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Dec 30 2023 10:35 utc | 206

My “conspiracy theory” is that Russia is hoping that by supporting Israel it can save its $300 billion in assets they want to confiscate because the Zionist lobby can influence that. Also an election.
Posted by: pq | Dec 30 2023 10:23 utc | 208
That is a good conspiracy theory but mine is better: Russia is saying one thing in public (through Lavrov etc.) and doing another, i.e. saying one thing to get to keep 300 billion (as if that is going to succeed) and then supporting South Africa’s move behind the scenes.
Maybe some PR is involved with a view to the election but Jews now account for less than 0.2 % of Russia’s population.
Speculation to be continued.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 30 2023 10:47 utc | 207

All Isreali passport holders (i.e. citizens) riding this out somewhere else: now is a perfect time to come to your homeland and make some aliyah. You can even do it wearing a uniform and a tour of Gaza can be including. A last in your lifetime opportunity.

Posted by: William Wilson | Dec 30 2023 10:49 utc | 208

Posted by: ld | Dec 30 2023 11:09 utc | 209

“What about it? Did you think it was because the western capitalist nations were so smart? The people (mostly the working class) in the US pay approximately 1,4 trillion dollars in taxes and phony money every year to make America Capitalist safe to plunder the rest of the world, surely you wouldn’t denie them their petty indulgences.”
Posted by: Ed | Dec 30 2023 1:45 utc | 142\
Actually, “in 2022, the US federal government collected over $2.6 trillion in income taxes, accounting for 52% of total revenue.”

Posted by: canuck | Dec 30 2023 11:24 utc | 210

Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Dec 29 2023 23:28 utc | 118
The sad truth is that Putin is a two-faced Zionist when it comes to Israel. Hamas should just tell Putin & Lavrov to f@^#! off.
Lavrov has implied that Hamas is equivalent to the Ukrainian Nazis.

Posted by: bluesolent | Dec 30 2023 11:30 utc | 211

RE: “Brace for every destabilizing trick in the book to play out in that land over the next few months …”
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 30 2023 9:50 utc | 206
This is true. However, unlike even 22 years ago, the globalization chessboard has gotten crowded. As predicted, some are starting to eat their own. The “Israel Lobby” is fracturing, like all other formally “united” gangsters.” I’m guessing South Africa move on Israel will result in Nuttyahoo & Likud demise, which many Mossad, CIA, M16 want to see. Nuttyahoo is interrupting “business”, and it’s every millionaire & billionaire for themselves and their circle, so the big united “Lobby” is becoming distracted among itself.
I’m suggesting South Africa did not act alone or without foresight. Guessing all on the ground “advisors, spies, agents, media outlets and many other people “ provided by domestic and various foreign actors, are positioned and as ready as possible for next phase of war on/in South Africa. No doubt, nonsense and terror will commence. They’re well informed and as prepared as possible for now I believe.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 30 2023 11:35 utc | 212

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 30 2023 4:41 utc | 171
“No offense taken, but it is good in my opinion to hear the opinions of one’s opponents. Thus one sees where they are coming from, and if one chooses to communicate with them, one has a basis from which to start. Or you just see how stupid they are. I believe in free speech, and I super don’t like censorship. I think MoA is quite good at that.
Give the hasbara fools enough rope with which to hang themselves.
Perhaps Khrushchev would have said, “Their arguements will support them like the rope for the hanged man.”
Posted by: lex talionis | Dec 30 2023 4:53 utc | 172
b knows what he is doing. There is no proper fruitful discussion on any subject without opposing viewpoints.
Hegel had it right with the dialectic:
“Thesis: Present the status quo, the viewpoint that is currently accepted and widely held.
Antithesis: Articulate the problems with the thesis. (Hegel also called this phase “the negative.)
Synthesis: Share a new viewpoint (a modified thesis) that resolves the problems.
Hegel’s method focused less on the search for absolute truth and more on replacing old ideas with newer, more sophisticated versions. That, in a nutshell, is the same objective as much of content marketing (and particularly thought leadership content): We’re persuading the reader that our product, processes, and ideas are better and more useful than the “old” way of doing things.”
So , for example, Bevin by trying to ‘cancel opposing viewpoints on Anthropomorphic Climate Change’ sadly only impoverishes the discussion searching for truth.
1.https://www.animalz.co/blog/thesis-antithesis-synthesis/#:~:text=Thesis%3A%20Present%20the%20status%20quo,thesis)%20that%20resolves%20the%20problems.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 30 2023 11:38 utc | 213

I just watched a Unicef commercial touting all the humanitarian aid they’re sending into Gaza while it showed imagery of the destruction. Thruout there was not a single word about what was happening there or why the people need aid. The effect, clearly intended, is to give the impression of a natural disaster.
That seems to be how everyone except the Houthis and Hezbollah want to view it. You’d watch that commercial and think, that must’ve been some earthquake to have destroyed all those buildings like that.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Dec 30 2023 12:03 utc | 214

Anyone harping about Lavrov supporting Israel and equating Hamas to Ukies needs to go read karlof’s post for the whole context https://karlof1.substack.com/p/lavrovs-two-interviews-tass-and-channel
Nowhere did Mr. Lavrov mention supporting Israel or condemning Hamas, but agitpop trolls got their paycheck I suppose. What Lavrov did mention was the devious emulation Israel tried (and failed) to morph 2 of Russia’s SMO goals – denazification and demilitarization into their murderous run in Gaza. He called out Israeli leadership for remaining silent over 404 neo-nazi conducts while joining collective West in condemning Russia for fighting Nazis, which was a common ideological enemy of Russia and Israel. What he did was a long-winded diplomatic way of labelling Zionists as what they are – lying hypocritical bunch who lost the plot.

Posted by: __newbie__ | Dec 30 2023 12:06 utc | 215

Another unique adaption of the Palestinian Resistance:

13:43 AlQassam Brigades says resistance fighters detonated minefield near Bureij refugee camp

Too impatient to wait for the IDF to “detonate” mines, the Resistance helps them along …
The methods the Palestinian Resistance have developed in Gaza will be the scourge of Empire for decades to come – no matter how this chapter of the story ends.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 30 2023 12:28 utc | 216

Russia and China did not file an application with the International Court of Justice (not to be confused with the International Criminal Court) regarding Israel’s actions in Palestine because Russia and China do not trust these courts to be impartial.
China and Russia are not party to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.
Russia signed the Rome Statute in 2000 but did not ratify it. It withdrew its signature in 2016.
In 2016 the ICC authorised an investigation into the 2008 Russia-Georgia conflict in South Ossetia, and characterised Russia’s activity in Crimea as an “ongoing occupation”.
In early 2016 Maria Zakharova, said: “Russia stood at the origins of the ICC’s founding, voted for its establishment and has always cooperated with the agency. Russia hoped that the ICC will become an important factor in consolidating the rule of law and stability in international relations.
“Unfortunately, to our mind, this did not happen. In this regard, and in the light of the latest decision, the Russian federation will be forced to fundamentally review its attitude towards the ICC.”
China and Russia have had their nationals as judges and other staff in these courts.

Posted by: JB | Dec 30 2023 12:31 utc | 217

Posted by: __newbie__ | Dec 30 2023 12:06 utc | 219
I think you are right in your reading of Lavrov’s words. His statement is very clumsy, and the translation was not helpful, so the meaning is not obvious and is easily misunderstood as the opposite of what he intended to articulate.
It was obvious to attentive followers of events in Palestine that Israel at one point started to copy Russia’s stated objectives in Ukraine in framing its own objectives in Gaza. Quite cynical, and revolting, but transparent.
Lavrov, it seems, wanted to point out this dirty trick, this abuse, but failed to do it clearly and directly. Hence the negative reactions. It is a rare slip-up on his part because he is usually quite clear.
He probably should clarify so that no doubts linger.

Posted by: JB | Dec 30 2023 12:46 utc | 218

@Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 30 2023 8:59 utc | 199
Thanks for link to Hearst.
History shows (Ireland, Algeria, South Africa,etc.) that colonial-settler regimes very often have to be fought.
Hamas has now very clearly positioned itself, both locally and globally, as the leading force in the Palestinian Resistance.
There are many forms of ‘fighting’ … and Israel has dug a big lonely somewhat depopulated hole for itself and is only protected, for now, by the ‘Big Dog’ … and the ‘Big Dog’ is getting old …
The West Bank needs guns …

Posted by: Don Firineach | Dec 30 2023 12:47 utc | 219

The illegal apartheid entity is a white supremacist peopled atrocity attached uninvited onto the Levant – it has NO LEGAL or MORAL right to be there.
Just as the white supremacists who claimed ownership of Zimbabwe, named it after its ceo, and stole all the fertile land if the locals to share between their European aristo elites – all across Africa, Asia, South America, Caribbean – to play the White Mischief game.
They still haven’t returned to the natives or compensated enough.
Now the Khazars and Talmudists who have been behind every European empire for centuries, including the USA , are cornered. In the Ukraine/Crimea (the two seas motif!)which is their actual ancestral lands from where they harvested the Silk Road and ran a slave empire from. They were NOT a Semitic jaudaeo worshipping people – until the mass conversion ordered by their King! Does anyone object to that reality?
Here is a child of the illegal entity that escaped the daily Zionist supremacist teaching of children there when she was still young who tells exactly of the Racist , white supremacy nature of the Zionazis:
‘Markus Kraus
@MarkusKraus6
9h
👉 Entdeckt auf TikTok 🎦
Eine 27 jährige Zionistentochter aus Israel erzählt wie sie sich erinnern kann, über die Indoktrination in ihrer Kindheit durch die Kindersendungen bis zu ihrem 10 Lebensjahr. Danach sind sie nach Amerika ausgewandert. Hört was sie selbst heute über die Zionisten sagt!
#FreePalestine #FreeIsraelFromZionism
@songuelschluerscheid ‘
Given that this is plainly recognised by the illegal settlers , it’s historians and media and many of its same diaspora from Europe across the world. And there are many who see the injustice and lie of the fake history and religion. They are some of the best critics of Zionism and its illegal apartheid regime.
It is now inevitable that the impossibility of the fantasy Oz and its wizard can exist anymore. Just as the flat Earthers can’t possibly exist anymore (I know they try!)

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 30 2023 13:26 utc | 220

Putin will have more room to maneuver on the Gaza issue when elections in Russia finish in mid-March. quite a ways away, unfortunately.

Posted by: Mastameta | Dec 30 2023 13:35 utc | 221

RE: Posted by: Mastameta | Dec 30 2023 13:35 utc | 225
Kinda like when Obama told Putin he’d have more room for maneuverability after his election?
Actually doubt anyone cares or isn’t aware of the Kremlins ME position as it relates to Russia & BRICS. The ME will take care of their own interests first. The West, Russia & China aren’t the center of the world anymore. There are other Continents & nations. If Russia meddles as does the U.S./UK, well, it isn’t very wise.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 30 2023 13:52 utc | 222

Posted by: ld | Dec 30 2023 11:09 utc | 213
I don’t know why but the saddest images for me are the smallest things. I had seen the man coming back with socks and the other with biscuits for their respective kids only to find them dead. It’s also hard to see so many people standing and waiting for food and then not getting enough when the trucks are right there waiting on the other side.

Posted by: pq | Dec 30 2023 14:09 utc | 223

Arch @ 174 on Genocide terms sophistry.
I shared it. Thanks Arch.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1012272343192395&id=100032289153275&mibextid=NOb6eG

Posted by: David G Horsman | Dec 30 2023 14:24 utc | 224

Posted by: ld | Dec 30 2023 11:09 utc | 213
I agree and shared that too. It also promotes this site.
📸 Look at this post on Facebook
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1012280839858212&id=100032289153275&mibextid=NOb6eG

Posted by: David G Horsman | Dec 30 2023 14:42 utc | 225

A 30-minute interview with Max Blumenthal on Judge Napolitano earlier today. I would definitely recommend watching this video.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zYlAYU4r66c

Posted by: tawharanui | Dec 30 2023 15:11 utc | 226

Where are the shapeshifters going to go next?
Australia is already occupied. Moorrrrrdddork and the asset managers and the cryptocurrency makers and draconian laws are already there.
Can’t get Crimea, can’t get Russian Federations, so another quick capture was engineered:
‘ — GEROMAN — time will tell – 👀 — retweeted
DD Geopolitics
@DD_Geopolitics
4h
Our geopolitical alignment is with the United States and Israel. We are not going to ally with communists.
– Javier Milei, President of Argentina ‘
That bunch of conquistadors have a serious history of genocide of natives going back centuries! They have been the bolt hole of Nazios for a long long time.
Yup it looks like it’s going to be Argentina and it’s claims to Antarctica and as base for the reconquest of the original mercenaries sent as proxies by the old slavers and traders. A century of war and terror awaits the Bolivarians! Or maybe not as they become SCO members with mutual security guarantees!

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 30 2023 15:29 utc | 227

re: genocide ?
„….Israeli analyst Eliyahu Yossian said in an interview that Israel should level the ground in Gaza, and “kill as many as possible and spare no one”.
He added: “The woman is an enemy, the baby is an enemy .. & the pregnant woman is an enemy.”…..
https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/video-israeli-analyst-calls-gaza-be-levelled?nid=326631&topic=Israel-Palestine%2520war&fid=495801

Posted by: Exile | Dec 30 2023 15:29 utc | 228

To give you a flavour of Haaretz slowly returning to its former self:
Between Hamas, Hezbollah and Public Opinion, Israel Finds Itself in a Strategic Bind: Israel’s unsolved conflicts with the Palestinians and Hezbollah have returned to the regional stage. The country could face a war of attrition alongside Netanyahu’s attempts to undermine democracy.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 30 2023 15:42 utc | 229

Posted by: Exile | Dec 30 2023 15:29 utc | 232
thanks for that. I think a lot of people the world over are waking up to the reality of what the state of Israel is, if they haven’t already. Israel’s defenders are telling them.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 30 2023 15:58 utc | 230

Hamas wins back Beit Hanoun.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 30 2023 16:04 utc | 231

Posted by: David G Horsman | Dec 30 2023 14:24 utc | 228
Thanks. I certainly hope you didn’t share the holocaust bit – that’s going to get you unfriended in a hurry …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 30 2023 16:16 utc | 232

Flying Dutchman 218
Israelis are “killed” or “murdered.”
Palestinians “die.”
Unclear why, maybe it’s a new strain of Covid or something.

Posted by: anon | Dec 30 2023 16:25 utc | 233

Putin will have more room to maneuver on the Gaza issue when elections in Russia finish in mid-March. quite a ways away, unfortunately.
Posted by: Mastameta | Dec 30 2023 13:35 utc | 225
Yep! Just in time for the mass burial.

Posted by: steve 2 | Dec 30 2023 16:49 utc | 234

@ Mastameta | Dec 30 2023 13:35 utc | 225
I don’t see why it matters. Jews are numerically not a major constituency, and I doubt that the well-being of Israel or Palestine is a dealbreaking concern among the great majority of non-Jewish voters in Russia. In fact, given the substantial Muslim constituency in Russia I would expect any pressure on the matter to be pro-Palestinian right now.

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 30 2023 16:56 utc | 235

Maybe because no genocide is actually occurring ?
Are you unaware of all the aid flowing into gaza and the IDF warnings for civilians to flee targeted sections and that Hamas uses human shields and IDF extensive use of smart bombs and even IDF “dumb” bombs have calibrated trajectories.
Israel would be the most inept genocider in history.
Posted by: genocidal | Dec 29 2023 21:13 utc | 82
English is a tricky language.
People often get genocide and ethnic cleansing mixed up.
You see trying to wipe an ethnically distinct population off the face of the earth is genocide but trying to remove an ethnically distinct population by force from territory you want to occupy is called ethnic cleansing.
So technically you are correct … Israel is not committing genocide but they are most definately running an ethnic cleansing operation in Gaza.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Dec 30 2023 18:28 utc | 236

Finally something to lighten the mood..
German newspaper Spiegel reports that after renewing the German commitment to Israel Chancellor Scholz had his entire team of PR writers sick out on him:
https://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/olaf-scholz-muss-er-seine-neujahrsansprache-dieses-jahr-selber-schreiben-glosse-a-3bd129b0-25c4-491d-be4f-dbbbcd7a952f
Seems the task “10 minute address, positive presentation of governmental policy” and a “proud, upbeat-optimistic” review of the past year, “seasoned with hanseatic humor” was a bit of an ask. Seems right after Scholz reiterated unwavering German support for Israel this and all the success around Ukraine and Nordstream this was a bit much.
Hilariously the last PR writer left a summary of all her suitable ideas and called in sick within 10 minutes after being asked… an empty page.
Seems someone proved German, even hanseatic humor (finally!)
We will all be waiting to see if he provides more proof or if the free market or ChatGPT will be able to find a solution.

Posted by: SOS | Dec 30 2023 20:59 utc | 237

Posted by: HB_Norica | Dec 30 2023 18:28 utc | 241

So technically you are correct … Israel is not committing genocide but they are most definately running an ethnic cleansing operation in Gaza.

Arguably killing 20k+ Gazan civilians on the way will also largely fit the common definition of genocide, especially if the means to sustain life are being systematically destroyed.
It’s not only Genocide when you succeed to eradicate everyone.

Posted by: SOS | Dec 30 2023 21:03 utc | 238

Difficult to believe that anybody paying attention would not look at the end of each post to verify if “Genocidal” is the author, and, if s/he is simply skip over it.

Posted by: RJPJR | Dec 30 2023 21:47 utc | 239

Posted by: SOS | Dec 30 2023 20:59 utc | 243
It would have been nice, but that’s just satire.
The Federal Chancellor’s speeches should always convey a sense of optimism, cohesion, trust, etc.
The author of the gloss has correctly recognized this almost absurd task at the present time (and for many, no doubt, the hypocrisy of such a speech in the usual manner).
Regards

Posted by: SW (also Berlin) | Dec 30 2023 22:21 utc | 240

__newbie__ | Dec 30 2023 12:06 utc | 219
*** Anyone harping about Lavrov supporting Israel and equating Hamas to Ukies needs to go read karlof’s post for the whole context https://karlof1.substack.com/p/lavrovs-two-interviews-tass-and-channel ***
Ok, so if we look at it, overall, and Lavrov didn’t actually attack the Palestinian resistance — instead, was being clever in the way you say….
Oops — but how many people, worldwide, are going to read through considerable Lavrov wordage, some of it elsewhere, to establish that view … and how many (assisted in their opinion forming by zionist controlled mass-media) will take the short Lavrov quote as a free-stander?
And thus assume he was indeed denouncing Hamas and other participants in resistance.
Has he shot himself in the foot?

Posted by: Cynic | Dec 30 2023 23:51 utc | 241

Posted by: JB | Dec 30 2023 12:46 utc | 222
Posted by: Cynic | Dec 30 2023 23:51 utc | 247
Yeah likely the long-winded part was impromptu (to include the dubious framing callout). Obviously not the most well-articulated response from Lavrov, I’m not defending that. Felt compelled to clarify for the more attuned commenters to not get led astray into false conclusions.
What I suspected though, is that as long as Russian speaking audience was satisfied with what was said, they (the Russians) would not even bother with what English speakers think or comment on. Rightfully so, as what Zionist media has done throughout SMO and when even internaltional bodies like Reporters Without Borders discriminate against >= 2 Russian journalists (by not including them in Gaza death tolls), I would consider the collective West a dead end too.

Posted by: __newbie__ | Dec 31 2023 6:04 utc | 242

The utterly vile genocidal Zionist Regime is made up exclusively of rabid psychopaths, brazen liars, murderous thieves, and human sewage.
Why can’t they do the whole world a favour and just FOAD?

Posted by: anon | Dec 31 2023 6:32 utc | 243

@Aristodemos — The superior manliness idea you invoke was a favorite morale-boosting idea of the Confederate forces early in the US War Between the States. FWIW

Posted by: Bedford | Dec 31 2023 12:50 utc | 244

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