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December 26, 2023
Palestine Open Thread 2023-319
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“The chosen people” is basic Judaism.
Zionism is the method to enforce it.
Posted by: canuck | Dec 27 2023 16:56 utc | 168
======================
Chosen people means “chosen by god/Yahweh.”
Chosen to be better than other so-called humans (aka the goyim).
Only latterly enforced by Zionism.
Before that, enforced by rabbis and the threat of “excommunication” forever from the community if rules broken.
As enforced by weird practices such as circumcision (expresses “covenant with God” to be Chosen), women shaving heads and wearing wigs, sex every Friday after synagogue, strict dietary laws that prevent “the chosen’ from straying to more normal lives among the “unkosher,” approval of swindling the goyim, so that everyone has to stick together to protect the swindler and ridicule the victims, etc. That is what “Chosen” means.
All of this stuff is techniques for rebs to control their own communities and preserve their power, to a great extent through anxiety and fear but coupled with a neurotic conviction of superiority.
While offering basically nothing AFAICS except the sensation of being safe and embedded in a tight community and that neurotic conviction of superiority (allem Anschein entgegen).
Posted by: Jane | Dec 27 2023 20:50 utc | 201
Posted by: Jane | Dec 27 2023 15:46 utc | 157
Yes, I didn’t really address that because it wasn’t in the scope of the question, but it’s correct. In Israel, Ashkenazi Jews look down upon the Black Ethiopian Jews (also refugees from a much more recent conflict), the Mizrahi Jews, and likely others. We already know they spit on Christians as a matter of custom, so they probably don’t treat them well in other scenarios either.
I really don’t understand how otherwise intelligent, thinking individuals – here on the pages of MoA – don’t seem to grasp the completely ironic situation that the Eastern European “white” Ashkenazi Jews and Zionists in Israel have themselves become what they allegedly stole their new homeland to escape. And they’re in the process of making Hitler look rather reasonable by comparison – or at least more consistent with his own stated opinions and values than they are. It’s such a shame. It all reminds me of this article which Jonathan Cook published at MEE in the past 36hrs.
https://jonathancook.substack.com/p/are-we-the-baddies-western-support
In a popular British comedy sketch set during the Second World War, a Nazi officer near the front lines turns to a fellow officer and, in a moment of sudden – and comic – self-doubt, asks: “Are we the baddies?”
For many of us, it has felt like we are living through the same moment, extended for nearly three months – though there has been nothing to laugh about.
Western leaders have not only backed rhetorically a genocidal war by Israel on Gaza, but they have provided diplomatic cover, weapons and other military assistance.
The West is fully complicit in the ethnic cleansing of some two million Palestinians from their homes, as well as the killing of more than 20,000 and the injuring of many tens of thousands more, a majority of them women and children.
Western politicians have insisted on Israel’s “right to defend itself” as it has levelled critical infrastructure in Gaza, including government buildings, and collapsed the health sector. Starvation and disease are starting to pick off the rest of the population.
The Palestinians of Gaza have nowhere to run, nowhere to hide from Israel’s US-supplied bombs. If they are ultimately allowed to escape, it will be into neighbouring Egypt. After decades of displacement, they will be finally exiled permanently from their homeland.
And as western capitals seek to justify these obscenities by blaming Hamas, Israeli leaders allow their soldiers and settler militias, backed by the state, to rampage across the West Bank, where there is no Hamas, attacking and killing Palestinians.
In defending Gaza’s destruction, Israeli leaders have reached readily for an analogy with the allies’ firebombing of German cities like Dresden – apparently unembarrassed by the fact that these were long ago acknowledged as some of the worst crimes of the Second World War.
Israel is waging an old-style, unabashed colonial war against the native population – of the kind that predates international humanitarian law. And western leaders are cheering them on.
Are we sure we are not the baddies?
Slave revolt
Israel’s attack on Gaza provokes revulsion from so many because it seems impossible to rationalise it. It feels like a reversion. It lays bare something primitive and ugly about the West’s behaviour that has been obscured for more than 70 years by a veneer of “progress”, by talk about the primacy of human rights, by the development of international institutions, by the rules of war, by claims of humanitarianism.
Yes, these claims were invariably bogus. Vietnam, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and Ukraine were all sold based on lies. The true goal of the US, and its Nato sidekicks, was plundering the resources of others, maintaining Washington as the global top dog, and enriching a western elite.
But importantly, the deception was sustained by an overarching narrative that dragged along many westerners in its wake. Wars were to counter the threat of Soviet communism, or Islamic “terror”, or a renewed Russian imperialism. And as a positive corollary, these wars claimed to be liberating oppressed women, protecting human rights, and fostering democracy.
None of that narrative overlay works this time.
There is nothing humanitarian about bombing trapped civilians in Gaza, turning their tiny prison enclave into rubble, reminiscent of earthquake disaster zones but this time an entirely man-made catastrophe.
Even Israel does not have the gall to claim to be liberating the women and girls of Gaza from Hamas as it kills and starves them. Nor does it pretend to be interested in democracy promotion. Rather, Gaza is full of “human animals” and must be “flattened”.
and
Mass gaslighting
In the absence of a persuasive justification for assisting Israel in its genocidal campaign in Gaza, our leaders are having to wage a parallel war on the western public – or at least on their minds.
To question Israel’s right to exterminate Palestinians in Gaza, to chant a slogan calling for Palestinians to be free of occupation and siege, to want equal rights for all in the region – these are now all treated as the equivalent of antisemitism.
To demand a ceasefire to stop Palestinians dying under the bombs is to hate Jews.
The extent to which these narrative manipulations are not only abhorrent but themselves constitute antisemitism should be obvious, were we not being so relentlessly and thoroughly gaslit by our ruling class.
Those defending Israel’s genocide suggest that it is not just Israel’s ultra-right government and military but all Jews who will the destruction of Gaza, the ethnic cleansing of its population, and the murder of thousands of Palestinian children.
That is the real Jew hatred.
But the path to this mass gaslighting operation has been paved for a while. It began long before Israel’s levelling of Gaza.
When Jeremy Corbyn was elected Labour leader in 2015, he brought for the first time a meaningful anti-imperialist agenda to the heart of British politics. And as a staunch supporter of Palestinian rights, he was viewed by the establishment as a threat to Israel, a critically important US client state and the lynchpin of the West’s projection of military might into the oil-rich Middle East.
Western elites were bound to respond with unprecedented hostility to this challenge to their forever war machine. This appears to have been duly noted by Corbyn’s successor, Keir Starmer, who has since made sure to present Labour as Nato’s number one cheerleader.
During Corbyn’s tenure, little time was lost by the establishment in working out the best strategy for putting the Labour leader permanently on the back foot and undermining his well-established anti-racist credentials. He was recast as an antisemite.
The campaign of smears not only damaged Corbyn personally but tore the Labour Party apart, turning it into a rabble of feuding factions, eating up all the party’s energy and making it unelectable.
Smear campaign
That same playbook has now been rolled out against much of the British and US public.
This month the House of Representatives overwhelmingly passed a resolution equating anti-Zionism – in this case, opposition to Israel’s genocidal war on Gaza – with antisemitism.
Protesters who have turned out to demand a ceasefire to end the massacres in Gaza are characterised as “rioters”, while their chant of “from the river to the sea” calling for equal rights between Israeli Jews and Palestinians is denounced as a “rallying cry for the eradication of the state of Israel and the Jewish people”.
Tellingly again, this is an inadvertent admission by the western ruling class that Israel – constituted as a Jewish chauvinist, settler-colonial state – can never allow Palestinians equality or meaningful freedoms any more than apartheid South Africa could for the native Black population.
In a complete inversion of reality, opposition to genocide has been reframed by US politicians as genocidal.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 27 2023 21:06 utc | 202
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 27 2023 8:52 utc | 113
Thank you. At the very least it provoked a very typical shallow hasbara response (but from a surprising source), so I know I must be at least somewhat close to the truth.
All I can say is, having lived through the post-9/11 years of ridiculous jingoism and false patriotism, and from within the Empire’s MIC (I was a contractor, and could tell some very wild stories), I don’t envy any Israelis (of any religious or ethnic persuasion) who might want to dissent from the Final Solution genocide being carried out on Gaza (and more slowly in the West Bank) or those who can see through the obvious lies, gaslighting, censorship, ostracization, and other typical post-Black Swan customs. And the real shitty thing about it is, there is no Israeli “news” or opinion outlet currently ALLOWED to promote these peoples’ voices. But human nature being what it is, we have to assume they exist – and in larger numbers than we might be able to see.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 27 2023 21:15 utc | 203
@Berhard/MOA
https://de.rt.com/meinung/190975-huthi-maersk-und-deutsches-schweigen/
”
…
Jetzt könnte man noch den russischen Flug hinzunehmen, den Bernhard von Moon of Alabama (unter anderen) vermeldete, der am 20. Dezember in Washington landete und erst nach 54 Stunden wieder startete.
…
”
Jfyi
Posted by: 600w | Dec 27 2023 21:20 utc | 204
Is the implication that most of the Jews never left Egypt and gravitated to Cairo?
Posted by: Jane | Dec 27 2023 19:01 utc | 193
………………………
Yup. Probably most were always in Cairo and Alexandria. Trade routes, power centers. Probably their claim originally in Judea was bogus if they made one (have forgotten most of their story now and try to avoid). In any case, they love self-serving narrative, no matter how graphomanic.
Take as much care of yourselves as you can in these depressing times.
· · · · ·
Seneschal ( Dec 27 2023 13:35 utc | 143 ):
Interesting! Thank you.
· · · · ·
Jayc ( Dec 27 2023 18:21 utc | 186 ):
Yes wider war seems certain with a “choice” between “war supporting genocide” (aka “peace”) and “war opposing genocide” (aka “wider war”).
Or countries could use their economic and military capabilities in more subtle ways of applying pressure such as Yemen did.
Does anyone think Israel would continue if they suddenly had no sea cargo in or out? And if that fails there’s a long gradual escalation ladder that remains and can be used.
That could have happened if not in the first week then in the second. Or people could have agreed to the suggestions out of Iran.
It could still be done!
Why does it not? (Largely rhetorical).
(For me personally the biggest disappointment has been Russia. I recognize this feeling, it is the same feeling as when I finally understood how hopelessly corrupted, deceitful, stupid, and lying the US was and is. But of course it’s not just Russia or the US, it’s nearly everybody.)
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 27 2023 21:38 utc | 206
And the real shitty thing about it is, there is no Israeli “news” or opinion outlet currently ALLOWED to promote these peoples’ voices. But human nature being what it is, we have to assume they exist – and in larger numbers than we might be able to see.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 27 2023 21:15 utc | 206
=========
It is really hard for me to feel sorry for Israelis or even cut them any slack. They live right next to the concentration camps that have been created in their name. They support the obvious theft of Palestinians’ land and water wanton destruction of their resources (olive groves).
Israel is a tiny country, about the size of New Jersey. Of course they know what goes on in the West Bank and Gaza. In any event, they all have to spend time in the IDF, so they know damned well. They only have to open their effing eyes to see the reality they live in. Unlike, say, the Germans, who have far greater deniability concerning Vernichtungslager im Osten.
For decades virtually every review of a book about Germany during WW2 has sooner or later come round to the question of “What did they/you/he/she know?” posed by a self-righteous American reviewer of reader. Well, at least that is over now. I knew that Americans, if tested with the same “Inquisition” type of test (If you “know” you are a witch; if you don’t “know” you are also a witch), would fail dramatically.
This obsession with judging German civilians continues with a new film, described as
“‘The Zone of Interest’ review: A Holocaust drama about the banality of evil. Jonathan Glazer’s film depicts the family of Auschwitz camp commandant Rudolf Höss — they go about their daily routines while a massive machinery of death grinds away next door.”
The Israelis have been living next door to a concentration camp for decades now and a metastasizing machinery of death, deprivation—and dishonor and lowdown looting and lying. They are living in a death machine and can only see the few casualties they have finally been obliged to take (mainly at the hands of their own) and are totally hardened to the mayhem and destruction and SUFFERING a few miles away.
The last time I mentioned this film at MoA my post was chucked, so . . . I am taking a copy this time of my comment, and we’ll see.
As for a “genocide” if the Jews have to evacuate, that is IMO a made-up anxiety that still somehow finds a way to worry more about Jews than about their victims, threatened with forced evacuation into a g.d. desert under conditions of starvation and horrific death by thirst. Get real. This will never happen to the Israeli Jews.
Posted by: Jane | Dec 27 2023 21:44 utc | 207
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 26 2023 11:17 utc | 5
Intel has had manufacturing and R&D in Israel since late 70s and once they invest in an area they don’t tend to give up on it.
The political dimensions of an Intel buildout are mundane: 1) that everywhere they go they receive substantial state subsidies in the form of grants, special tax treatment, etc, and 2) that the U.S. semiconductor industry, as is most of high tech, is an outgrowth of the Manhattan Project and the Defense Dept. That 1 trillion a year for the NDAA+ is real money.
But it’s too simplistic to assume direct causalities between between any multinational in Israel and the plight of Palestine: the U.S. deeply internalized war since WW2; war became central to industry and to our entire society, and therefore that of the entire world.
I imagine that the situation in Gaza has a bearing on industry in Israel at a similar degree to Federal prison management policy on Silicon Valley. The incapacity of the Palestinians to assimilate into an overwhelming western high-tech culture echos the plight of indigenous peoples around the world. People who can’t adapt to the fact that merely existing on a strip of land is not a meaningful stake in this modern world.
Maybe the Palestinians need a superhero with a special power to raise awareness, maybe he rides a magic carpet with James Bomb accoutrement that can fly underground. But what will he be called? The Stray Rocket? The Human Bomb? The Militant Proxy?
The stupidity of this thought should make us curious at least about the language Palestinians use internally to describe their plight, their cause and their fighters, and cause us to wonder about the dimensions of the symbolic gap between the language of the occupiers and the dispossessed.
Edward Said’s “Orient v. Occident” seems hopeless as it’s utterly embedded in the language of the occupier.
Posted by: Arrnon | Dec 27 2023 21:47 utc | 208
This is not a reply to anyone here.
Patience?
What is there to be patient about?
If someone is telling me to be patient they better also tell me why, in detail, and what good it will do to those dying, starving, and suffering right now.
Would any such persons ask me to be patient if they themselves were dying right now?
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 27 2023 21:57 utc | 209
Jane ( Dec 27 2023 21:44 utc | 210 ):
Well said.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 27 2023 22:01 utc | 210
maybe a small point…the IDF killing of the Iran General in Syria…because USA asked via intermediaties that Iran not support Houthis and other actions against Isr. and Iran refused.. so USA got revenge via IDF no problem omly too pleased to assist a friend in need???
Or worse USA said something would happen if Iran refused to accept the “advise-request”…?
Posted by: Jo | Dec 27 2023 22:22 utc | 211
sal | Dec 27 2023 20:12 utc | 203….
Read the post (202) again. It begins with reference to a book.
Posted by: Cynic | Dec 27 2023 22:25 utc | 212
Posted by: Jane | Dec 27 2023 21:44 utc | 210
I pretty much agree with everything you said, but again: you raise a valid point which strengthens my gut feeling on how difficult it must be for many Israelis to offer dissenting opinions, let alone protest in a meaningful fashion. The Nazi comparison, IOW, is apt. What would it have taken from average German citizens to stop the holocaust once it had progressed to that point? I suppose that the whole idea is that it never should have been allowed to reach that point in the first place, but again – authoritarian totalitarian societies (and Israel is definitely one) – seem to structure (and censor/censure) meaningful debate from very early on. The Nazis engaged in many putsches, including violent and deadly ones long before Auschwitz and the other CCs were murdering people (and not just Jews of course).
And along similar lines, with respect to the Native Americans, a lot, if not most, of the carnage was happening on “the frontier” – far away from the big cities, or at least far removed from the everyday citizen’s concerns in those places. I’m sure the media here whitewashed and rationalized it (even censored dissent) back then too. Granted, a (perhaps large) subset of the population who lived on or near the frontier were well aware of the ongoing genocide(s) and there must have been a collective or prevailing attitude similar to what many Israelis have: “manifest destiny” or “we’re the chosen people” and “this land is ours, because ____, and we’re going to keep taking it” (all the while, the worst of it being minimized or censored in the main population hubs).
I guess what I’m saying is: What would it have taken for Americans and Germans (before social media or the Internet or even widespread TV/radio) to effectively organize to stop the atrocities?
And my only real point is that I’m positive there are many Israelis who detest and abhor what is being done, but they’re guilty in the same way the characters in “Zone of Interest” or my American ancestors* were. And it’s possible that the collective guilt (whether acknowledged or not) will tear that country apart eventually.
*Interestingly enough I have at least two relatives who “went native” after being kidnapped by a tribe in the Midwest, one of whom was repatriated into “white society” and couldn’t take it. He rejoined the Indians as soon as he could escape back to them.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 27 2023 22:36 utc | 213
Mossad, with assistance from the CIA, FBI and in particular the NSA, perpetrated a false-flag upon the US.
‘There were hundreds of telephone threats and bomb hoaxes to synagogues and Jewish community centres in the US.’
@Posted by: librul | Dec 27 2023 19:14 utc | 196
Could have discussed what would have happened if the false-flag had worked to it’s full intent.
It did succeed in putting a dark gray cloud over the first weeks of Trump’s first term.
But imagine if the FBI had been able to set up a MAGA white guy as the likely suspect.
Phone threats and the like draw copy cats, but no appropriate chump could be enticed to make such a call, that we know of.
With no one falling into the trap the clock was ticking until a whistleblower would come forth and also
what was all this rights-defying phone-tapping technology for if it couldn’t stop one repeat dialing caller?
So they pulled the plug on the false-flag and caught a “crazed guy with a brain tumor” (who happened to have a mother that worked in a biolab controlled by Mossad).
So, again, imagine if they had nailed a MAGA guy for the whole threat thing, or a Muslim. The security/surveillance industrial complex would have been heroes
****AND**** any politician being against domestic spying — phone tapping, email reading, internet watching — would have been tagged as anti-semitic.
“You don’t want to protect the Jews?!”
Posted by: librul | Dec 27 2023 22:43 utc | 214
Posted by: Jane | Dec 27 2023 21:44 utc | 210
And just to be clear, I do not feel sorry for “Israelis” on any collective level, at all. Of course they know what’s happening and at best some human rights NGOs are documenting it (and for that are being marginalized, even threatened) and some Israeli citizens *must be* disgusted with it. My point was that, having lived through the aftermath of 9/11 and the associated jingoism, false patriotism, and just pervasive propaganda and exclusion of dissenting voices from the mainstream, there are surely Israelis in the same boat. The obvious answers – from a purity standpoint – would be 1) take to the streets, stop work, and refuse to participate in it and/or 2) just leave the country.
I think I addressed #1 – at least for the minority with whom I’m attempting to empathize (not sympathize) and most people understand how difficult it is to simply pick up and relocate to another country if you’re not sufficiently wealthy or lack connections elsewhere.
But you raised another good point in that all Israelis must serve in the IDF when they are younger. So yes, most of them know exactly what’s happening. I linked a video here the other day wherein ex-IDF have “woken up” to the situation and they discuss the difficulties associated with speaking out, even now that they are safely ensconced in non-military careers and/or not even living in Israel anymore. Coupling those accounts with the fact that Zionism is a totalitarian/authoritarian philosophy – and that even ‘regular’ diaspora Jews live in fear of being ostracized for criticizing Israel in any meaningful way – it speaks to how difficult and dangerous it can be to stand in the way of such a “machine.”
And frankly, all of us are guilty – especially those of us who don’t immediately stop our own work, march in the streets, and volunteer time and money to the Palestinian resistance movement. Voting seems to make no difference, and the Zionist project has a veritable stranglehold on UK, US and EU politics, media, and mainstream public opinion dissemination (media, career viability, etc.).
It’s just evil, really. And other than some donations I’ve made, I feel pretty helpless to be honest.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 27 2023 22:50 utc | 215
Can anyone elaborate on Russian public opinion on the matter of Gaza and the Palestinian struggle against their oppressors?
The Russian government (Putin, Lavrov, etc.) occasionally make noises about it, and in particular the USA’s hypocritical and utterly disgusting willingness to kill any actions designed to minimize or even suspend the atrocities, but what is Russian public opinion and will the Russian state ever do anything substantive to disrupt the US-Israel Axis of Evil insofar as the ongoing genocide?
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 27 2023 22:54 utc | 216
Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 27 2023 21:06 utc | 205
*** Western elites were bound to respond with unprecedented hostility to this [Corbyn] challenge to their forever war machine. This appears to have been duly noted by Corbyn’s successor, Keir Starmer, who has since made sure to present Labour as Nato’s number one cheerleader.***
No need for him to note it — he was long a top operative of theirs anyway.
Member of the Trilateral Commission.
Also a fanatical zionist, he has now formally turned Jewish.
And expelled or pushed out almost every Labour Party member who objected to neoliberalism and collaboration with the excesses of the Israeli regime, or NATO/US-empire.
Which included quite a number of Jewish members of that Party.
Posted by: Cynic | Dec 27 2023 23:01 utc | 217
I appreciate the answers to my last questions and would like to know: What do MOA’s barflies think is the greatest, or primary obstacle to global peaceful civilisation?
Is it tribal supremacy – tribalism + supremacy – like if one tribe, for whatever reasons (no history lessons needed) has the unshakable conviction down through the ages that their own supremacy is the pre-ordained natural order of the human world?
Is it the belief in social hierarchy being the unchangeable and/or innocent natural order?
The enormous human support for the idea to organize ourselves into extremes of economic inequality?
The idea to allow a tribe of supremacists to gain truly stupefying amounts of wealth and therefore power?
?
Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Dec 27 2023 23:46 utc | 218
Posted by: JB | Dec 27 2023 12:20 utc | 131
Very well put, even eloquent. Thanks.
Posted by: RJPJR | Dec 27 2023 23:46 utc | 219
And frankly, all of us are guilty – especially those of us who don’t immediately stop our own work, march in the streets, and volunteer time and money to the Palestinian resistance movement. Voting seems to make no difference, and the Zionist project has a veritable stranglehold on UK, US and EU politics, media, and mainstream public opinion dissemination (media, career viability, etc.).
It’s just evil, really. And other than some donations I’ve made, I feel pretty helpless to be honest.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 27 2023 22:50 utc | 218
============
No, I don’t agree that all of us are guilty!
(I don’t feel guilty for what earlier generations of Americans did to Native Americans. In any event a long discussion or comparison is OT here. IMO the Zionist project is in most respects sui generis. )
But maybe we do not take as many risks as we could to take advantage of the freedoms we do have to state our beliefs and call out the pols and groups who purport to speak for us and in our name.
A lot depends on the community—on, say, whether you have a community newspaper, and what types of groups you might find in your community.
My community, in Mass., is very “woke” on the surface—that is, both papers are toeing the “antisemitism” line and giving priority to the “Jewish community’s pain” etc. (The whole place was full of Ukrainian flags, stones painted blue and yellow—less of that now . . .) Very quick to make the antisemitism accusation and go on and on about Hamas.
But there is a group standing on a prominent corner with pro-Pal and anti-USA/complicitness signs every Sunday. Most people driving by honk in support. Quite a few drivers slow down to actually read the signs. Maybe our messages are news to them? Several pedestrians walking by have said “Thank you for doing this.”
That tells me that plenty of people are not taken in by the propaganda, and I think our signs and the fact that we are standing out there helps penetrate the heavy curtain of propaganda and false consciousness (“Jews are the victims”). A number of our group ID themselves as Jews. Which I continue to think is extremely important. To challenge and break the hold that Jewish orgs and Jewish-controlled media have on diaspora Jews, also supposedly secular Jews. I think it is also good for Jews to see that their victimhood narrative is being openly challenged and maybe has passed its sell-by date.
Posted by: Jane | Dec 28 2023 0:09 utc | 220
219:
“Can anyone elaborate on Russian public opinion on the matter of Gaza and the Palestinian struggle against their oppressors? ”
==============
My Moscow friend/ correspondent was very surprised to hear that groups of US citizens are openly protesting the Gaza genocide.
I sent him a photo.
My impression was that he thought no one in Russia would consider getting out on a streetcorner holding up a sign, regardless of what they think of the situation. Putin is being super-cautious. I expect that Russians are also going to be cautious . . .
Posted by: Jane | Dec 28 2023 0:19 utc | 221
Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Dec 27 2023 23:46 utc | 221
Your comment aligned pretty well with this Caitlyn Johnstone article I was just emailed.
https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/how-the-hell-did-we-get-here?
Posted by: Jane | Dec 28 2023 0:09 utc | 223
Agree that a conversation about the NA genocide is a little O/T – at least a long one, but a couple of points:
1) I do feel that collectively we are a bit guilty for allowing our government – and its proxies – develop into the globe spanning regime-changing apartheid-supporting genocide-enabling apparatus that it’s become. Granted, the USA has never truly been a democracy, and Capital (as in big money) has succeeded in crushing many, many democratic/socialist movements that could potentially have changed things. Same on the Israel/Palestine situation – we could have done more; or tried harder.
2) Re: guilt about my ancestors and the NA, at this juncture in history it’s strictly an academic debate unless we’re talking about returning stolen land and resources to the Native Americans; or protecting the ones they still have that are under threat. But for the most part, the genocide and ethnic cleansing are done. In my particular case, I’ve got a long family history of interactions with the natives, and most of it not directly negative. TMK, nobody in my family tree ever took part in the breaking of treaties, murders or other nefarious aspects. But of course had all those treaties simply been honored (or even most – I believe there are up to 1,000), the situation would look much different. So Russia has a point – Americans/Anglos have proven ourselves not to be “agreement capable.”
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 28 2023 0:22 utc | 222
My impression was that he thought no one in Russia would consider getting out on a streetcorner holding up a sign, regardless of what they think of the situation. Putin is being super-cautious. I expect that Russians are also going to be cautious . . .
Posted by: Jane | Dec 28 2023 0:19 utc | 224
I think that my question about Russia should have been worded and timed better. It’s probably not a “typical” domestic political atmosphere in Russia considering the near-existential war it’s fighting against NATO/US/UK proxy Ukraine and the requisite (or at least to be expected) tamping down of protests, especially about topics not directly related to the Ukraine war.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 28 2023 0:24 utc | 223
I feel pretty helpless to be honest.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 27 2023 22:50 utc | 218
I know how you feel. Understandable. I also feel useless. everything is outside my extremely limited power to even slightly influence anything to help (even with others) change the situation on the ground or in places like the UN or even in my own govt…. or the media. It’s depressing coming fast on the heels of the propaganda surrounding Ukraine and Russia.
I try to say “useful” things on social media forums like here but it momentarily makes feel I did something but is some dispersed into a sense of utter uselessness and a waste of time. It doesn’t stop a single child or person from being harmed. No one is being bought to justice … nothing stops nothing improves. No one’s mind is changed, the propaganda and lies don’t stop.
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 28 2023 0:27 utc | 224
IANAL. 676.1K Views of possibly the most grotesque public performance by J. Borrell in at least 5 days.
Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 28 2023 0:28 utc | 225
PS I don’t even feel like I’m part of a positive movement or group of people who think feel like me, there’s always so much agro and criticisms going on here even, it’s just depressing and totally dis-empowering to me. But yeah ‘Being Useless’ really sums it up for me.
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 28 2023 0:30 utc | 226
Hey b hope you had a fine little break.
The mice have been playing while you have been gone.
Please if you missed it please include my previous post link in your weekly thing.
If you think it merits it.
It was some ‘pearls before swine’ comment like this:
Might have been posted already, if not it’s a must watch- learn who the real enemy is. From Murdoch , to Blair and Bullingdon to Yaxley Lenon & Jordan Peters, to Shapiro , (Douglas) Murray and the whole DS 5+1 Eyed construct.
All the dots of the shapeshifters current shape detailed in 10 minutes- it takes an artiste to do that. Taken me years and I had most of the dots especially that total turd Murdoch and his stable.
Woke is their weapons as is anti-woke
Please do watch. Enjoy. Support. This is the future of alternative news space we need.
Double Down News
@DoubleDownNews
Dec 22
Lowkey EXPOSES Piers Morgan, Ben Shapiro & Douglas Murray 🔥 @Lowkey0nlin
https://nitter.net/DoubleDownNews/status/1738131230686580870#m
Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 28 2023 0:39 utc | 227
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 28 2023 0:27 utc | 227
Yep. Helpless, useless. And this part is IMO the worst:
“No one is being bought to justice … nothing stops nothing improves. No one’s mind is changed, the propaganda and lies don’t stop.”
And given my inherent bent toward justice, it’s that nobody is being brought to justice. But since almost nobody ever has – the default position of Empire, Capital and the “investor class” since before WWI – and in fact those who deserve justice the most (Julian Assange among many, many members of numerous resistance and transparency movements) are not only routinely denied it, but rather subjected to the most extreme and ever increasing INjustice, it’s easy as hell to get really depressed. To the point that I no longer feel I have anything novel or useful to offer this thread and will regress to “lurk mode.”
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 28 2023 0:39 utc | 228
DuchessAndBob 221
unchangeable and/or innocent natural order?
” The enormous human support for the idea to organize ourselves into extremes of economic inequality?
The idea to allow a tribe of supremacists to gain truly stupefying amounts of wealth and therefore power?”
Most Westerners who have established a stable, prosperous existence have been assisted by 1/ state’s colonial wealth and 2/ a generous amount of wealth distribution, state expenditure on civil infrastructure.
For those who live in the colonised countries, they have never received these two advantages, rather the opposite for obvious reasons that their countries assets have been stolen. Therefore there is only easy , legitimate way to establish a prosperous , stable lifestyle.
Hence the klepto governing class ostensibly are a role model for ordinary people, that the only way forward is to rob and oppress others. In these mostly Muslim countries religion is a business, just as it was in Christian countries before colonialism arrived. Religion is a means of lifting oneself out of poverty through spying , lying, corruption, oppression and exerting control.
Israel is run exactly the same as these Muslim countries, through religion. But what they aspire TO, is to be colonial , and therefore CIVILISED powers like the West, free from religious coercion.
To Muslim immigrants to Western countries every citizen of that country is a recipient or perpetrator of colonial oppression. To Jewish immigrants to Palestine every citizen of that country is recipient or perpetrator of colonial oppression EVEN THOUGH that happened 2000 years ago (Rome) or 2,600 years ago (Captivity).
The experience of oppression and discrimination in the countries the Jews emigrated from is in fact the experience of their own religion oppressin them, which it still continues to do in their new home in Palestine.
Civilisation is uncivilised. Peace is constant war so far as the civilised oppressor world is concerned.
As Craig Murray has often rightly pointed out, the trick of the Fat Colonialists is to persuade their citizens that their Fat Colonial greed is exactly thexsame as the citizen feeling the pinch in a post welfare state world.
As the comedian once said ‘ he wanted sex with his wife and he’d rubbed himself all over with tuna fish oil so they smelt the same…’
No , the greed of the colonial billionaires is not the same as me wanting to replace my 20 gear old car with a fifteen year old one.
I don’t like this talk about all us westerners being responsible for the Gaza genocide. We will not be beneficiaries of these crimes. Others will , in Muslim countries who have co-conspired to genocide the Palestinians for Israel.
Do I have a right to condemn Muslim Brotherhood for committing colonial genocide? Yes, because my ancestors were not colonial oppressors and nor am I.
If I am taking benefit from my government ‘s colonical.oppression, I may be , but politically I believe the same benefit could be had by fair trade I would still have diesel and bananas. The cost of lethal weaponry and feeding the billionaires far outweighs the costs of win win trade.
I do not feel personally guilty of this genocide. I think that’s just what the billionaires would have us believe.
Don’t feed the trolls who want to blame us peeps for their obscene greed.
Posted by: Giyane | Dec 28 2023 1:00 utc | 229
@ Cynic | Dec 27 2023 20:05 utc | 202
Will do so cynic, look up the referenced work that is.
The book I referenced was published two years after your referenced work. My surmise, brief and sketchy though it is after a brief look, is that the two do not conflict.
But, I leave that to you, my friend, the cynic, whom I value amongst others here,
Posted by: suzan | Dec 28 2023 1:07 utc | 230
Here is the book referred to by Cynic | Dec 27 2023 20:05 utc | 202
Dario Fernandez-Morera, The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise: Muslims, Christians, and Jews under Islamic Rule in Medieval Spain
https://archive.org/details/the-myth-of-the-andalusian-paradise
Posted by: Suzan | Dec 28 2023 1:33 utc | 231
Cynic 202
“That invasion is how a lot of them came to be there in the first place.”
Jews pray to God in exactly the same way as Muslims , but facing Jerusalem not Mecca. Obviously there are also historical, shared grievances between Jews who were expelled from Jerusalem by polytheist Rome and Muslims who faced Crusades from Trinitarian polytheist Christians.
If Muslims chose to ally themselves with Jews, that is totally against the teachings of the Qur’an , then as now with Israel and the British Muslim Brotherhood. It will end badly. I feel it in my bones, not just for Gazans, but ultimately for Christians, Pentacostaholists, Jews, Zionists, Muslims and Islamists All. For exactly the same reasons as before, because the Jews are liars who oppsed or denied their prophets Esa and Muhammad and many others before them, Peace be upon them all.
Why do MB think it will be any different this time? They are utterly deluded.
Posted by: Giyane | Dec 28 2023 2:28 utc | 232
But yeah ‘Being Useless’ really sums it up for me.
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 28 2023 0:30 utc | 229
Don’t know what you’re talking about. I for one always value and benefit from your contributions. Please continue.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 28 2023 2:52 utc | 233
@ Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 28 2023 0:30 utc | 229
you might consider only posting on the open threads ( not ukraine or palestine-israel), or moon of alabama week in review thread.. i appreciate your posts and commentary..
Posted by: james | Dec 28 2023 2:59 utc | 234
To Lavrov’s Dog @ 227 & Tom_Q_Collins 218,
Don’t give up hope. Please remain steadfast. While all this blogging etc. is but a grain of sand on the big beach of public opinion, people do read this stuff and act upon it. With enough grains of sand piled up, one does make a dune, and enough weight to shift public opinion, and eventually political opinion. One can already see it in the rhetoric out of Washington D.C.
They have to lie to continue on with their policies which have grown most unpopular.
May I suggest also deluging your Congressional representatives in D.C. with your views. Although one letter will not move them, enough letters actually do. The biggest thing the ruling powers are afraid of is prevailing public opinion. That is why they make so much effort to control it with the media. Hey, I just noticed I can’t get to Haaretz online anymore here in the States. Nutandyahoo was saying he wants to shut it down.
Posted by: Gee Eye Joe | Dec 28 2023 3:00 utc | 235
Recent Al-Qassam video montage:
https://t.me/FotrosResistance/3559
Needless to say, the IOF are being systematically destroyed and demoralised.
Posted by: tawharanui | Dec 28 2023 3:10 utc | 236
“Being useless”? I don’t know.
At least, all those protesting on the streets worldwide and condemning this massacre, do not harm.
And perhaps our opposition can cast a doubt about future electability of most vigilant backers of Israeli crimes, thus limiting for how long can they support this.
I hope
Posted by: scanalyse | Dec 28 2023 3:22 utc | 237
Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 28 2023 0:27 utc | 227
Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 28 2023 0:39 utc | 231
Re helplessness,
But, but, we humans DO have agency. Every letter in every post counts. It educates the masses. Without our brains, nothing gets done. We cannot allow ourselves to despair.
To me, the only way to stop the insanity is to stop the insanity — of the 0.001%.
This can be done. Here is my solution, and perhaps I’m too naive to think that it might work.
To stop the 0.001%: we know who they are. We know where they live. The list is proudly published under the title, The Wealthiest. In US, there are 400 person/families. Their feet need to be held to fire, for them to feel the heat.
The heat is a two prong policy: first, is the rest of the world, another words, us in general, and in particular, the homeless. The homeless have nothing to lose, so they make a perfect group of people. They can demonstrate outside the 400 residences, occupy style. If some are taken to prison, there is always more to fill the ranks. Nothing scares the rich more than coming in contact with the poor.
Second, the courts. Hit them in the pocket, where it counts. With so many lawyers out of work, court filings can be done, perhaps, pro ce style. Find any malfeasance by the 400 and file against it. They can’t fight all the proceedings. It will take much effort. While they fight those, more findings pile up.
Before anybody accuses me, no, I’m not advocating bodily harm to anyone. Just scare the bejeebers out of them, and scare sanity into their minds.
Now, the hard part: mobilizing the homeless, out of work lawyers, and law students.
Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Dec 28 2023 3:41 utc | 238
@ james | Dec 28 2023 4:15 utc | 242
it is very interesting reading what you pontificate about, while being a lying asshole who has to fake his id with an ip scrambler… aside from being a hasbara shit artist, you are a first class asshole too who could give a fuck about anyone’s rights – least of all others… what a fucking fake you are..
Posted by: james | Dec 28 2023 4:58 utc | 239
“The necessity of what is not necessary!”
I found an interesting comment about the participation of Manama (Bahrain) in the US-led “Operation Prosperity Garden” in the online Cradle website:
“One Bahraini opposition leader, speaking to The Cradle on the condition of anonymity, describes Manama’s participation as “the necessity of what is not necessary.””
Bwa ha ha ha. The anonymous commentator is clearly gifted in describing the actions of a US/NATO military base masquerading as a small country.
see Khalil Harb’s piece, “The ‘Gulf’ widens as GCC states differ on US strategy against Yemen” at The Cradle.
Posted by: N Hanrahan | Dec 28 2023 5:14 utc | 240
Hey Fake James, let me learn ya somtin, let me edumacate ya:
Under international law, Israel does not have “a right to self defense” or “a right to exist” – “right to exist” is not a right recognised in international law.
Israel cannot claim a right of self-defense” against a threat that emanates from the territory that it occupies, that is kept under “belligerent occupation“.
“Belligerent occupation – according to international law, occupation means a situation when, in during an international armed conflict, a territory, or parts thereof, comes under the effective provisional control of a foreign power, even if it is not met with armed resistance.
https://www.diakonia.se/ihl/resources/international-humanitarian-law/ihl-law-occupation/
Posted by: Menz | Dec 28 2023 5:33 utc | 241
Dario Fernandez-Morera, The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise: Muslims, Christians, and Jews under Islamic Rule in Medieval Spain
Posted by: Suzan | Dec 28 2023 1:33 utc | 234
re cynic further back 202.
Thanks for posting that link. I’ve not had time to read it yet, but I will do. I’ve looked through the introduction. At first sight it looks like Spanish islamophobic revisionism. He speaks highly of at least one conservative catholic. You know, the sort of people who supported Franco. The first illustration is a Latin 13th century illuminated manuscript depicting (noble) Christian slaves being led away by (evil) Muslims. It’s not an illustration of reality but a piece of political propaganda from the Catholic conquerors of Andalucia, but it’s presented by the author as truth. I wouldn’t place too much reliance on what he had to say.
Posted by: laguerre | Dec 28 2023 6:04 utc | 242
Well I think this is the next level of sickness to even put onto tik tok
https://t.me/QudsNen/91889
We are looking for babies, I killed a girl about 12 but we looking for the babies
Posted by: Hankster | Dec 28 2023 6:30 utc | 243
«Under international law, Israel does not have “a right to self defense” or “a right to exist” – “right to exist” is not a right recognised in international law.»
The stupid handwaving is strpong here! Actually it is precisely the opposite:
* Virtually all states are members of the UN.
* To become a member of the UN is to ratify the UN treaty and charter and promise to obey it and UN resolutions.
* Isrsel is created by an UN rdesolution, so as a UN member member it has not just a right, but a *duty* to exist, and every UN member has the *duty* to ensure that Israel exists. Not many states have as certain a foundation as an UN resolution establishing them.
«Israel cannot claim a right of self-defense” against a threat that emanates from the territory that it occupies, that is kept under “belligerent occupation”.»
That is pure handwaving: the customary laws of war give the defeated people the right to fight the occupiers but only according to the laws of war (by creating an armed force under a chain of command, bearing distinctive signs, and carrying arms openly), and the occupying power has every right to defend their own forces and civilians. The Red Cross summarizes authoritatively:
https://casebook.icrc.org/law/civilian-population#chapter5
«Occupation
In international humanitarian law, a territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the adverse foreign armed forces. […]
The civilians have no obligation towards the occupying power other than the obligation inherent in their civilian status, i.e., not to participate in hostilities. Because of that obligation, IHL allows them neither to violently resist occupation of their territory by the enemy. The civilians have no obligation towards the occupying power other than the obligation inherent in their civilian status, i.e., not to participate in hostilities. Because of that obligation, IHL allows them neither to violently resist occupation of their territory by the enemy nor to try to liberate that territory by violent means. nor to try to liberate that territory by violent means. […] The occupying power’s only protected interest is the security of the occupying armed forces; it may take the necessary measures to protect that security, but it is also responsible for law and order in the occupied territory, as well as for ensuring hygiene and public health and food and medical supplies.»
There is a common tendency among the bigger loudmouths here to assume that customary international law does not apply to the states and people they consider bad, that as soon as someone they dislike commits a wrong, they become [human animals] [orcs] and have it coming as they lose all rights. That is not how it works, in either national or international laws. Alleged criminals have rights, and even convicted criminals have rights.
Posted by: Blissex | Dec 28 2023 6:32 utc | 244
Barflies,
Please note that Al-Qassem brigades claimed on Wednesday that they lured 40 IDF into a booby trapped house, when the charges went off all 40 IDF were KIA‘d. That’s the claim – believable or ?
Posted by: Exile | Dec 28 2023 6:57 utc | 245
That’s the claim – believable or ?
Posted by: Exile | Dec 28 2023 6:57 utc | 250
Here’s a claim and video clips from Hindustan Times:
Al Qassam ‘Kills Nearly A Dozen’ Israeli Soldiers; Gaza City’s ‘Fiercest Fight’ On Camera
Dec 28, 2023 #gazacity #hamas #idf
Gaza City witnessed one of the most intense fights between Hamas and the IDF. The Palestinian militant group launched a series of attacks on the Israeli Army. In a new video, Hamas fighters can be seen attacking a group of Israeli soldiers. Hamas claimed that at least 10 Israeli soldiers were allegedly killed in the attack. Watch this video for more information on the ferocious Gaza City battle.
Based on the principle of “If I can see you, I can kill you”:
– IDF soldiers spotted in large batches and monitored by HAMAS marksmen.
– HAMAS clearly striking large concentrations (5 – 15) of IDF men, and mopping up the remnants.
– Once or two incidents shown in the H.T videos, but it takes only 2 or 3 such incidents to amount to 40.
Verdict:
– Highly Plausible. If not true today, then certainly true within 2 -3 days.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 28 2023 7:12 utc | 246
What about October 7, 2023?
My answer: What about August 5, 6 and 7, 2022?
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-gaza-names-faces-children-killed-bombardment
This is what I tell and show people!
Posted by: Ivan M. | Dec 28 2023 7:18 utc | 247
We are looking for babies, I killed a girl about 12 but we looking for the babies
Posted by: Hankster | Dec 28 2023 6:30 utc | 249
I repeat:
“There is no such thing as an Israeli Civilian.”
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 28 2023 7:19 utc | 248
Arch,
Thanks for the video link. The ambush of 10 IDF happened last week and was apparently the catalyst for withdrawal of the Golani Brigade.
The 40 KIA claim happened Wednesday local time in a single incident.
Posted by: Exile | Dec 28 2023 7:32 utc | 249
Iraqi Resistance Drones reach the Golan:
Iraqi Resistance Claims Responsibility For Drone Attack On Israeli-Occupied Golan
tick tock, tick tock …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 28 2023 7:33 utc | 250
Here is the Al-Qassem claim from Wednesday:
……Furthermore, al-Qassam Brigades reported another significant operation in Beit Hanoun. They successfully lured an Israeli special force into a house and obliterated it with three anti-personnel IEDs, stun grenades, and a Shawaz armor-piercing explosive. The entire force was killed in this operation.
Additionally, the Brigades detonated a boobytrapped tunnel in central Gaza, targeting an Israeli occupation force made up of eight soldiers near the al-Bureij refugee camp. This attack also inflicted casualties among the Israeli troops…….,,
Posted by: Exile | Dec 28 2023 7:36 utc | 251
Iran Toughens Response To Russia’s Humiliating Stance
https://www.iranintl.com/en/202312260191
Bernhard, if you haven’t already, wish you would write up your response to this development.
Posted by: sarz | Dec 28 2023 7:46 utc | 252
@ Exile | Dec 28 2023 6:57 utc | 250
The claim of 40 KIA does seem unusually high, but my impression is that Al-Qassam Brigades is generally quite careful in trying to release accurate information. Since this would almost certainly be deemed a high-value operation, it seems likely that more details will emerge in coming days.
Posted by: tawharanui | Dec 28 2023 7:53 utc | 253
Posted by: laguerre | Dec 28 2023 6:04 utc | 248
thanks for your comments,
Personal inclinations and fantasies ,Watch out for Al writings.
Dario Fernandez-Morera, The Myth of the Andalusian Paradise: Muslims, Christians, and….
Looks like the work of phobe. Nothing like the other stuff I have read.
i guess he is entitled to his opinion no matter how skewed.
It was a golden age of progress.
Posted by: sal | Dec 28 2023 8:56 utc | 254
Middle East Eye reports:
Israeli sources determine more than 5,000 IDF seriously wounded since start of hostilities on 2.Oct. (These are apparently only a tally of the wounded that can not return to action)
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-thousands-soldiers-wounded-disabled-gaza-fighting
Posted by: Exile | Dec 28 2023 9:23 utc | 255
b , expecting you back today after your well earned little break, there’s a bit of work to do with the sock puppets and spooky trolls to stop the constant whatabouttery and diversion being attempted. Even as they run for cover after being called out. The most recent seems to be the the one just above pushing a spooky DS anti Iran site!
Who do they think they are kidding?
Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 28 2023 10:09 utc | 256
95 tom . G is copypaste this trash
https://www.politico.eu/article/guardrails-prevent-war-fail/
It was on zero hedge and was panned as garbage.
Posted by: Hankster | Dec 28 2023 10:29 utc | 257
Iran Toughens Response To Russia’s Humiliating Stance
https://www.iranintl.com/en/202312260191
Bernhard, if you haven’t already, wish you would write up your response to this development.
Posted by: sarz | Dec 28 2023 7:46 utc | 257
(UK based) Volant Media manages Iran International, the first 24/7 and most popular Persian news channel which is targeted at people living in Iran and those in the Farsi speaking diaspora.
Who benefits most by shit disturbing between Iran and the UAE; Iran and Russia?
Both Russia and Iran have tried to downplay. I can’t understand why anyone would choose this moment to start fighting about those islands.
Posted by: pq | Dec 28 2023 10:42 utc | 258
Exile 250. I searched for a long time to find a video I saw the other day but alas can’t find the myriad of places I’ve been. But that video showed hamas wiring IEd into a building then baiting IDF into it. You only saw their flashlights getting closer until the room disappears. The claim was there were multiple explosives that then got the rescue squad , a second rescue squad was further hit. Those casualties could easily come from that event. There was a claim that they shot up the survivors
Posted by: Hankster | Dec 28 2023 10:45 utc | 259
Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 28 2023 0:28 utc | 228
EXCELLENT FIND!
The EU’s Foreign Policy Chief Josep Borrell faces social media backlash after a viral Al Jazeera Arabic interview. He labels Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack on Israel a war crime, but when questioned about Israel’s attacks on Gaza, he responds, ‘I’m not a lawyer.'”
Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 28 2023 12:37 utc | 260
Middle East Eye reports:
Israeli sources determine more than 5,000 IDF seriously wounded since start of hostilities on 2.Oct. (These are apparently only a tally of the wounded that can not return to action.
…
Posted by: Exile | Dec 28 2023 9:23
utc | 260
Assuming KIA count to be close to one third of that figure or abt 1,500?
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Dec 28 2023 12:39 utc | 261
A key to the mystery called Borrel:
In 1969, Borrell worked as a volunteer at the Gal On kibbutz, near Kiriat Gat, where he met his first wife, Carolina Mayeur, a Jew of French origin, with whom he had two children, and from whom he separated in the nineties. (machine translated from Spanish)
Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 28 2023 12:46 utc | 262
Lebanese TV reports:
13:43 Al-Qassam fighters fire Yassine-105 projectile on Israeli Merkava south east of Al-Bureij refugee camp in central Gaza Strip
Comment – tally now 135 Merkavas claimed since 2.Oct
Posted by: Exile | Dec 28 2023 12:51 utc | 263
“Hamas Supporters Try to Cancel Christmas” (Clarion Project)
Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 28 2023 12:58 utc | 264
Middleast Eye Reports:
… In the West Bank, Israeli forces seized millions of dollars from Palestinian businesses in overnight raids and killed one citizen…….
Posted by: Exile | Dec 28 2023 13:04 utc | 265
Posted by: Exile | Dec 28 2023 13:04 utc | 270
This is pretty straightforward: the businesses funded terrorism and the one citizen was a terrorist.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 28 2023 13:08 utc | 266
@ Posted by: pq | Dec 28 2023 10:42 utc | 263
The guy is obviously a MI6/CIA trained hood from his very beginning and been involved in the BBC bullshit that has got many young Anglo Iranians jailed for their subversive activities in Iran. They supposedly ran away from London claiming the Met Police had told them they are being targeted by Iran! After Iran had labelled them a terrorist organisation.
They have returned to open up ‘new offices’ in London after operating out of DC !!
They don’t say how they are funded, no surprise.
As spooky a spookiness that even scoobydoo wouldn’t have taken long to figure out😁
‘ Mahmood Enayat is the founder of Small Media. He is the former Iran country director for the BBC World Service Trust and Iran Media Program of the University of Pennsylvania. Mahmood holds an M.A. in analysis, design and the implementation of informations systems from the London School of Economics as well as a B.Sc. in computer science with management from King’s College London.’
https://cyberdialogue.ca/2014-participants/enayat/
That conference is in itself revelatory about tech companies who funded it and some odd US foundation.
The poster above who is trying to get a bite out of b, and us , I have not really seen here abouts, and as I pointed out this seems to be part of the concerted attempt at narrative diversion here at MoA.
But as it’s at the end of a thread I am posting this – let’s hope that it’s enough and there is no further need to rebutt.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 28 2023 13:08 utc | 267
Probably most were always in Cairo and Alexandria. Trade routes, power centers.—Scorpion 208
==========
Maybe that’s why the Zionists insisted they had to have Palestine for a “homeland.” Because it is at the center of multiple trade routes.
If they really were looking for permanent safety for the Jewish people they would have been happy to go to Uganda or to the Russian oblast reserved for them.
But no, they had to go to the one place where they will never be safe—will always have to be fighting with someone (which they seem to like and which always can feed the victim narrative)—but where there is the potential for them to control a large huge portion of the world’s trade. Isn’t this what the “Zionist/globalists” really want?
Especially if they “mission creep” their way into the Sinai, Egypt . . . Suez . . . the Red Sea . . .
And didn’t the Zionists actually enjoy the prospect of eradicating the local population, “scorched-earthing” and flattening their built environment and villages and towns and substituting their own “Creation 2.0”? Wasn’t that a draw for them?
Just looking at the map . . .
They have no plans to stop . . .
Posted by: Jane | Dec 28 2023 13:18 utc | 268
A useful concept to understand better what the bar is in the process of shifting:
“The Overton window is the range of policies politically acceptable to the mainstream population at a given time. It is also known as the window of discourse.”
Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 28 2023 13:25 utc | 269
248:
“He speaks highly of at least one conservative catholic. You know, the sort of people who supported Franco.”
==================
I haven’t read the book in question, but this is an absurd statement.
I hope I don’t have to explain why.
Posted by: Jane | Dec 28 2023 13:26 utc | 270
One key figure in shifting the Overton window with regard to Israel though has been Bill Ackman. With his net worth of 4 billion he still seems to perceive himselff as a member of an oppressed minority, judging by the heat he has been turning on some vocal pro-Palestinian protesters and even on Harvard President Ms Gay for allowing pro-Palestinian speech and actions on campus. The more delusional Ackman is getting in his need to narrow the window, the more he is at least shifting it and eventually widening it.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 28 2023 13:40 utc | 271
… In the West Bank, Israeli forces seized millions of dollars from Palestinian businesses in overnight raids and killed one citizen…….
Posted by: Exile | Dec 28 2023 13:04 utc | 270
The Zionists realize they have the full backing of the West.
So, murder and steal at will.
No consequences.
After all, they’ve been plundering jewelry from Gaza homes for weeks now.
Chutzpah. A Jewish (not merely Zionist!) value.
“Most of the Jews are thieves.” –David Ben-Gurion
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 28 2023 13:49 utc | 272
Developments:
1) The battle in central Gaza is raging:
https://www.palestinechronicle.com/why-is-the-central-gaza-battle-the-most-decisive-analysis/
2)Israeli forces seize millions of dollars from West Bank money exchange offices
3) Iran issues a serious threat to Israel:
The commander of the Islamic Revolution Guard Corps Hossein Salami:
“Martyr Razi spent his life in the struggle of Resistance and sacrifices, and he was a companion of Resistance fighter martyr Qassem Soleimani,” …The Israeli occupation, Salami said, “knew martyr Mousavi very well – perhaps more than us – because it received several heavy blows from him […] It also knows martyr Mousavi’s influence on the Resistance Front that is confronting it and the United States.”
“We will not stand idle regarding the killing and martyrdom of our compatriots; our revenge will be stern and severe, and it will be nothing short of putting an end to the Israeli entity,” the Iranian commander stressed.
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/irgc-chief-al-aqsa-flood-palestinian-without-foreign-sway
From MEE:
“Our revenge for the martyrdom of Sayyed Razi will be nothing less than the removal of the Zionist regime,” Salami said in a televised funeral speech… “I am hopeful that soon, God permitting, the great and honourable Palestinian fighters will wipe out the geographical and political name of this evil and fake regime.”
Posted by: JB | Dec 28 2023 13:52 utc | 273
A reminder of history:
After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2008/04/gaza200804
Posted by: librul | Dec 28 2023 14:25 utc | 274
Exile 270
According to the Talmud, Jews are entitled to steal anything they want from the goyim. Their mega swindling by people like Madoff, the Maxwell clan, Bankman Fried, and countless others, is perfectly normal and acceptable to them. Anyone who objects is just anti semitic.
Because the world and everything in it was created exclusively for their benefit.
All the goyim are just animals put on the earth to serve the Talmudic Master Race.
Killing a goy, any goy, is a mitzvah, a praiseworthy act.
Even the best of the goyim should be killed.
All goy women, without exception, are whores and menstrual filth.
Though sometimes even these inveterate swindlers and thieves can come unstuck.
They have seized the bank accounts of Palestinians. But some of these accounts were in deficit, in the red, because they had an overdraft. So they said okay, you now have my overdraft.
Posted by: anon | Dec 28 2023 14:31 utc | 275
“…I haven’t read the book in question, but this is an absurd statement.
I hope I don’t have to explain why.” Jane@275
You do. On the face of it the idea that Franco’s followers were inclined to the sort of propaganda this history is said to contain, is reasonable.
Fascists do not make very good objective historians. Neither do Roman Catholic extremists.
Laguerre’s guess seems reasonable enough.
Posted by: bevin | Dec 28 2023 14:35 utc | 276
@ Arrnon 211
“Edward Said’s “Orient v. Occident” seems hopeless as it’s utterly embedded in the language of the occupier.”
The late Dr. Said was working under severe limitations. He was a professor within a Zionist controlled university and city. If he had said more, he would have found himself out of a job. In fact, he would never have been hired in the first place, if he wasn’t already censoring himself. Self-censorship is what people with very limited personal power do. Unfortunately, it’s what basically all university professors in the West do if they deal with “sensitive” topics, and that is why they are generally worthless. Universities are systems of indoctrination and control.
I saw this from inside the system. Long before I wrote my Masters thesis, I had been warned by an older student, a black guy, that “Things are not what you think,” and that I had to watch my tongue if I wanted to graduate. The professors were nice people, liberals all. But when it came time to write my thesis, I went “Full BS”. Another student, a very popular woman, wrote on the same topic. She was going to lay out the truth. I warned her, but she went ahead anyway. Her thesis was rejected and she had to rewrite it. She had to take an additional semester. She didn’t change the topic of her thesis, she just inverted all the major points. It was cringe worthy. I was surprised the professors didn’t inquire about her about-face and compleat inversion of all that mattered. I was inexperienced and didn’t yet understand that all the system cared about was parroting the BS. Even the profs didn’t care what you really thought as long as you made like a parrot. By contrast, my BS thesis was accepted with praise.
Much of the American antiwar movement, back when it existed, censored itself in an effort to “reach out” to the American people whom they considered unwilling to hear the basic truths. That censorship led to a colossal failure because the peaceniks ended up failing to understand the magnitude what it would take to end America’s military aggression.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Dec 28 2023 14:37 utc | 277
As far as I know it’s not bank accounts. They are going after cash. Just stealing basically.
From Al Jazeera live updates Early morning Dec 28
Israeli forces raided six exchange companies: Palestine Monetary Authority
The Palestine Monetary Authority (PMA) says Israeli forces at dawn raided the headquarters of six exchange companies under the PMA’s control in a number of governorates in the occupied West Bank.
“The Israelis arrested a number of the owners of these companies and seized sums of money from their safes, after blowing them up,” it said in a statement, adding that it is “following up this sinful attack with all relevant parties”.
It said it considers the attack “an act that violates all international norms, laws, charters and agreements, and aims to undermine confidence in the Palestinian banking and banking sector”.
Posted by: pq | Dec 28 2023 14:38 utc | 278
Much of the American antiwar movement, back when it existed, censored itself in an effort to “reach out” to the American people whom they considered unwilling to hear the basic truths. That censorship led to a colossal failure because the peaceniks ended up failing to understand the magnitude what it would take to end America’s military aggression.
Posted by: JessDTruth | Dec 28 2023 14:37 utc | 282
what are you smoking?
I almost fell for Obama murdered the antiwar movement, until it became clear technology and complete consolidation faked the death.
If the victims were at fault, Citizens United and the slow march of post Vietnam syndrome rehab of the populace through baby step military ops would not have been necessary.
Posted by: Not Ewe | Dec 28 2023 15:05 utc | 279
Posted by: Jane | Dec 28 2023 13:18 utc | 273
Probably most were always in Cairo and Alexandria. Trade routes, power centers.—Scorpion 208
==========
Maybe that’s why the Zionists insisted they had to have Palestine for a “homeland.” Because it is at the center of multiple trade routes.
If they really were looking for permanent safety for the Jewish people they would have been happy to go to Uganda or to the Russian oblast reserved for them.
But no, they had to go to the one place where they will never be safe—will always have to be fighting with someone (which they seem to like and which always can feed the victim narrative)—but where there is the potential for them to control a large huge portion of the world’s trade. Isn’t this what the “Zionist/globalists” really want?
Especially if they “mission creep” their way into the Sinai, Egypt . . . Suez . . . the Red Sea . . .
I’ve organically developed a way of looking at things that I call ‘layers and levels’. Both individuals and groups comprise many aspects. Individually, we have our own sexual, emotional, political, familial, national perspectives – aka ‘identities’. We are lover to one, mother to another, boss to many and stranger to even more in the street. So each of us comprises many aspects which sometimes harmonize, othertimes clash. So also with nations. (Putin is a master at harmonizing these many layers and levels.)
The ‘Chosen’ narrative is Jewish cultural DNA sustaining needed apartness from their host nations. Once they finagled Israel they could have lived together harmoniously with Christians and Arabs as in the rest of the Levant, however Holocaustianity, an atrocity narrative used to get them Israel, has hard-wired hatred and deception into their collective psyche. Apartness works for a minority but as a nation it demands continual enemies to justify the core of their existential narrative as The Chosen, a tribe nursing grievance to justify exceptionalism, also laced with shame because they know their narratives are lies. They will try to unify their various ‘layers and levels’ to harmonize with this burning exceptionalist resentment.
They desperately need an intervention from higher civilizational Authority but cannot expect rescue from those they have spent centuries undermining. The irony is that they truly ARE an exceptional people, but unhappily so; they must return to the realm of the Ordinary, Good and True but cannot find their Way.
I think the critical question is when does Israel reach the level of losses associated with leaving Lebanon, years back? They got dragged into a guerrilla war with Hezbollah and were forced to leave ( amidst denials, of course).
Hamas could strike a propaganda blow if they managed to capture rather than kill some IDF soldiers. It would make the whole situation look futile for Israel.
I also think a two state situation still could work – but only if the world agrees to its imposition. If both Hamas and Israel hate it, so much the better for credibility. Nor does it mean Hamas forever gives up a one state future if emigration from Israel continues and births there are mostly Ultra Orthodox who are worse than useless. Some Israelis have publically said the Haredi problem is the biggest threat of all. The secular Zionists tend to keep the show going and they might be looking to leave. Some of the emigration figures are hard to believe !
Israel has to hustle the Palestinians out or do genocide soon. Otherwise, they get stuck with negotiations amidst US decline. The clock is ticking.
Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 28 2023 15:48 utc | 281
“In the second time in as many years, a group of ‘pro-Israel’ hackers calling themselves Predatory Sparrow managed to knock out Iranian petrol stations. The group seems to focus almost exclusively on Iranian targets, causing real damage to Iran’s infrastructure. It is one of a number of hacker groups using colorful names to conceal their identities while advancing what, according to foreign reports, seems like Israeli interests.”
Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 28 2023 16:50 utc | 282
https://nitter.net/Jonathan_K_Cook/status/1713346453916028943#m
Jonathan Cook
@Jonathan_K_Cook
Former British ambassador Craig Murray:
In both the UK and the US there can be no more stark illustration of the lack of any kind of meaningful democracy, than the fact that there is no major political party that opposes the genocide [in Gaza] – despite massive public opposition.
The bought and paid for media and political class in the west are extremely nervous, throughout the western world. Now they have come to the final genocide for which zionism has always aimed, they face a good deal of popular resistance…
We are witnessing almost all western governments deliberately facilitating massacre, ethnic cleansing and genocide. We are witnessing almost all western governments turning on their own people to crush dissent at that complicity in genocide.
This feels not so much like the week that western democracy died, as the week it was impossible any longer to deny that western democracy died some time ago.
Posted by: MD | Dec 29 2023 13:38 utc | 283
A 2015 list of members in US politics who hold dual 🇺🇸/🇮🇱citizenship, past and present
https://nitter.net/TruthShepherrd/status/1740241372752531542#m
Shepherd of Truth
@TruthShepherrd
Dec 28
You won’t find this on Google.
1. Attorney General – Michael Mukasey
2. Head of Homeland Security – Michael Chertoff
3. Chairman Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Richard Perle
4. Deputy Defense Secretary (Former) – Paul Wolfowitz
5. Under Secretary of Defense – Douglas Feith
6. National Security Council Advisor – Elliott Abrams
7. Vice President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) – “Scooter” Libby
8. White House Deputy Chief of Staff – Joshua Bolten
9. Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs – Marc Grossman
10. Director of Policy Planning at the State Department – Richard Haass
11. U.S. Trade Representative (Cabinet-level Position) – Robert Zoellick
12. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – James Schlesinger
13. UN Representative (Former) – John Bolton
14. Under Secretary for Arms Control – David Wurmser
15. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Eliot Cohen
16. Senior Advisor to the President – Steve Goldsmith
17. Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary – Christopher Gersten
18. Assistant Secretary of State – Lincoln Bloomfield
19. Deputy Assistant to the President – Jay Lefkowitz
20. White House Political Director – Ken Melman
21. National Security Study Group – Edward Luttwak
22. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Kenneth Adelman
23. Defense Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) – Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
24. National Security Council Advisor – Robert Satloff
25. President Export-Import Bank U.S. – Mel Sembler
26. Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families – Christopher Gersten
27. Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs – Mark Weinberger
28. White House Speechwriter – David Frum
29. White House Spokesman (Former) – Ari Fleischer
30. Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Henry Kissinger
31. Deputy Secretary of Commerce – Samuel Bodman
32. Under Secretary of State for Management – Bonnie Cohen
33. Director of Foreign Service Institute
US Senate:
•Senator Barbara Boxer (California)
•Senator Benjamin Cardin (Maryland)
•Senator Russ Feingold (Wisconsin)
•Senator Al Franken (Minnesota)
•Senator Dianne Feinstein (California)
•Senator Herb Kohl (Wisconsin)
•Senator Frank Lautenberg (New Jersey)
•Senator Joe Lieberman (Connecticut) (Independent)
•Senator Carl Levin (Michigan)
•Senator Bernard Sanders (Vermont) (Independent)
•Senator Charles Schumer (New York)
•Senator Ron Wyden (Oregon)
US House of Representatives:
•Representative Gary Ackerman (New York)
•Representative John H. Adler (New Jersey)
•Representative Shelley Berkley (Nevada)
•Representative Howard Berman (California)
•Representative Steve Cohen (Tennessee)
•Representative Susan Davis (California)
•Representative Eliot Engel (New York)
•Representative Bob Filner (California)
•Representative Barney Frank (Massachusetts)
•Representative Gabrielle Giffords (Arizona)
•Representative Alan Grayson (Florida)
•Representative Jane Harman (California)
•Representative Paul Hodes (New Hampshire)
•Representative Steve Israel (New York)
•Representative Steve Kagen (Wisconsin)
•Representative Ronald Klein (Florida)
•Representative Sander Levin (Michigan)
•Representative Nita Lowey (New York)
•Representative Jerry Nadler (New York)
•Representative Jared Polis (Colorado)
•Representative Steve Rothman (New Jersey)
•Representative Jan Schakowsky (Illinois)
•Representative Adam Schiff (California)
•Representative Allyson Schwartz (Pennsylvania)
•Representative Brad Sherman (California)
•Representative Debbie Wasserman Schultz (Florida)
•Representative Henry Waxman (California)
•Representative Anthony Weiner (New York)
•Representative John Yarmuth (Kentucky)
thelibertybeacon.com/members…
Posted by: MD | Dec 29 2023 13:41 utc | 284
https://nitter.net/ThiaBallerina/status/1740400149623603494#m
Thia is with … 😏✌️💋🔥
@ThiaBallerina
21h
Bernie who refuses to call for a ceasefire, meltdown-tweeting over Trump, while defending Biden- an insufferable war thirsty pos, who’s sponsoring Netanyahu- an extreme right-wing fascist, racist, genocidal psychopath.
Fkn clown country !!!
Posted by: MD | Dec 29 2023 13:50 utc | 285
https://nitter.net/aaronjmate/status/1740581845291728941#m
Aaron Mate
@aaronjmate
10h
Replying to @coldxman @briebriejoy
Dear member of the genocide apologia brigade,
Let’s assume that this is not yet another Israeli gov’t lie, unlike beheaded babies; baby in oven; fetus cut out of womb; Al-Shifa’s Hamas HQ, etc. It’s odd to me how you can take this genocidal gov’t at face value, but you do you.
If it’s true, I have no idea how those nails got there. But it’s not necessarily evidence of rape. It’d be evidence of brutal torture. Or possibly those nails got there by rubble — Israel fired tank shells, causing a lot of it.
These are the kind of things that could be established with a credible, independent investigation. And also with physical evidence: oh, but never mind, the NYT article you’re citing as gospel admits thre is none. As have Israeli authorities. (nitter.net/aaronjmate/statu…)
You’re asking me to take the word of a genocidal government and its media mouthpieces. I’ll pass until we get some actual evidence.
https://nitter.net/wallacemick/status/1740490089287794785#m
Mick Wallace
@wallacemick
16h
Over a hundred Journalists have been killed by #Israel in #Gaza thanks to #US + #EU support for the Genocide. And would the Secretary of State have anything to say about Julian #Assange …?
Secretary Antony Blinken
@SecBlinken
22h
This has been an extraordinarily dangerous year for press around the world. Many killed, many more wounded, hundreds detained, attacked, threatened, injured – simply for doing their jobs. I am profoundly grateful to the press for getting accurate, timely information to people.
Posted by: MD | Dec 29 2023 14:01 utc | 286
Recommended reading:
Our Lives and Culture Are in Rubble, Gaza city mayor Yahya R. Sarraj:
The Israeli invasion has caused the deaths of more than 20,000 people, according to the Gaza Health Ministry, and destroyed or damaged about half the buildings in the territory. The Israelis have also pulverized something else: Gaza City’s cultural riches and municipal institutions.
The unrelenting destruction of Gaza — its iconic symbols, its beautiful seafront, its libraries and archives and whatever economic prosperity it had — has broken my heart.
https://informationclearinghouse.blog/2023/12/27/i-am-gaza-citys-mayor-our-lives-and-culture-are-in-rubble/
Posted by: JB | Dec 29 2023 15:13 utc | 287
Someone said – “I also think a two state situation still could work” –
I simply cannot comprehend this kind of thinking anymore. I’ve long felt it was useless to expect a 2 state solution – Israel’s majority powers were certainly was against it vehemently – but now I think it is impossible forever from both sides.
Anyone be they Israeli or Palestinian who used to think it’s maybe worth a shot to hold out hope have permanently turned their backs on it now I believe.
I also thought this ‘battle’ would burn itself out and things would go back to normal again — to be ignored, the suffering and tyranny continued. I feel that’s not the case, that this will not stop for a very long time. I expect the west bank to explode soon, followed by Jerusalem, and then pockets of violent protests by Palestinians inside Israel proper …. the usually quiet subservient ones suddenly going rogue en masse.
Add to this the Israeli economy under strife, a lack of workers, the disruptions and the stress. It’s not looking good going forward from here. I cannot see Israel winning and I cannot see the Palestinians giving up. Something will eventually give and maybe the whole project collapses in on itself?
I see nothing good coming. But maybe I’m just tired of it all and depressed? Quite possible that’s all it is.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
https://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 29 2023 16:02 utc | 288