massive failure on the part of the Izzies on Oct 7th was intentional.
Posted by: librul | Dec 24 2023 12:53 utc | 2
The failure was intentional.
The consequences unforseen.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 24 2023 12:58 utc | 4

The consequences unforseen.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 24 2023 12:58 utc | 4
Indeed.
Seems to happen a lot.
As I recall, in 2003, after the US coalition invaded and decimated Iraq
there was talk of wrapping it up soon with a large draw down
of troops. Then the civil war in Iraq broke out and the US
stayed in force for years.
In 2006 the Izzies (with lots of encouragement and planning/plotting on the part of the US)
had a false-flag security failure at their border with Lebanon. The Izzies had believed
that they could just sweep away Hezbollah with only the use of their air force.
After that, enabled by the very recent John Bolton UN resolution, the US/Brits/Izzies
planned to invade Syria and Iran. However, the air force was not enough and they started
a ground invasion too. The Izzies discovered just how weak their forces were against
Hezbollah and so their attack upon Lebanon devolved into a years-long ceasefire.
The current Gaza invasion I expect has not gone as originally planned on paper.
I imagine that the Zios had believed that they could stampede the Gaza women and children south
into Egypt much much sooner with only stand-off forces – the air force, artillery and missiles.
Now they find themselves slogging through a bombed out city landscape with ground forces and the
world is watching.

Posted by: librul | Dec 24 2023 13:21 utc | 6

Does anyone else wonder whether Hamas has additional *attack* plans?
The Izzies had got hold of Hamas’ Oct 7th plans months in advance,
so Hamas should anticipate that the Izzies also know of any
second-phase attack plans. I keep wondering if Hamas plans to pop out
of their holes in force sometime somewhere.

Posted by: librul | Dec 24 2023 13:34 utc | 8

125 Dec, 23 thread pg Israel like the US, both with technology-based military are adept at bombing civilians from the air, but not so good at “boots on the ground” following the history of their wars in the ME. Early on in Israel’s attack on Gaza people speculated that they would have a problem fighting Hamas in a ground invasion and would not do well chasing Hamas in the tunnels. For a moment it looked like there was disagreement in Israel admin. whether or not to go into Gaza and I hoped they would go in, because that would give Hamas a chance to do them some real damage which has happened. But now that it’s been demonstrated they couldn’t get Hamas, there’s reason to fear; Israeli army’s ‘phase 3’, in which they will withdraw from Gaza as I understand it, will bring more bombing. It shows for certain now they don’t really care anymore if they beat Hamas, they will focus on incurring damage to the Palestinians which will take a long time to repair. This isn’t a given. World resistance can still increase. Israel thinks it will be able to control Gaza, which remains to be seen. The Israeli army has shown it doesn’t really have a strategy that insures they will attain their goal, imo. They were swelled with chutzpah going into Gaza thinking they could beat Hamas. They are still winging it — their war is a gamble, but phase 3 could be the worst for the Palestinians. Also, it’s worrisome that the US, Israel, Arab Emirates and SA may build a military base on the Yemeni island of Socotra (Palestine Chronicle).

Posted by: Lavieja | Dec 24 2023 13:38 utc | 10

Red Sea: US Led Operation Prosperity Guardian – What’s In A Name 🫡
Allies Show of Insubordination to US Navy Command
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/cracks-form-in-new-naval-coalition-drone-strikes-spread-to-indian-ocean
Cracks form in coalition.

Posted by: Oui | Dec 24 2023 13:42 utc | 12

Uma coisa não entendi.no dia do assalto 7,atacaram uma base militar israelense,mataram vários militares,se apossar da base,nela estavam vários mercado.nao vi nenhum queimando ou explodido.alguem me explica?

Posted by: Sergio dourado | Dec 24 2023 13:43 utc | 14

Malenkov 13.37
Didn’t notice.
Hilarious.
Just choked on my Guinness
Thanks, says it all 🙂
Let’s move on now.

Posted by: Walt | Dec 24 2023 13:46 utc | 16

Also, it’s worrisome that the US, Israel, Arab Emirates and SA may build a military base on the Yemeni island of Socotra (Palestine Chronicle).
Posted by: Lavieja | Dec 24 2023 13:38 utc | 10
Sounds like just another target to me.
This obsession with building bases all over the place is going to blow up really badly in Uncle Sam’s face.
America’s primary geographical advantage is the fact that it has two oceans protecting it from potential foes.
Now it squanders that advantage by conveniently moving itself right up to the enemy’s doorstep.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 24 2023 13:47 utc | 18

Allies Show of Insubordination to US Navy Command
Cracks form in coalition.
Posted by: Oui | Dec 24 2023 13:42 utc | 12
The Cracks formed before the Coalition …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 24 2023 13:48 utc | 20

I’m trying to understand how any base gets built while under a hail or rocket fire. Even if one did exist how does it project power into Yenen itself? The Houthi aren’t sitting around in conveniently flagged bases for you to destroy. They’ve also endured 8 years of what you and your proxies can dish out and they give no fucks.
The people trying to stop the Houthi don’t have the cognitive framework to fight today’s battles. They are stuck in an old mindset because they aren’t thinkers to begin with. They’re mimics who take something that worked and repeat ad nauseum.
Empire is in full improvisation mode and doesn’t it show. Meanwhile they continue the slaughter of innocents in Gaza. A crime to end all crimes. Fuck Maerica and her proxies and all her useful idiots around the world. That is all.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 24 2023 13:56 utc | 22

Only a few minutes after the start of the 7th October operation Antony Blinken gave a phone call to… not Israel nor Palestine but Turkey.
On the morning of the 7th October operation the entire Israeli security establishment was locked down from 8am to 11am in a secured room for a preplanned meeting unrelated to the ongoing operation.
The Israeli army took 7 hours to start responding to the attack.

Posted by: Quiet | Dec 24 2023 13:58 utc | 24

https://twitter.com/ME_Observer_/status/1738908822972879317
Middle East Observer
@ME_Observer_
⚡️Al-Sharq Channel Publishes details of the #Egyptian initiative to stop the war in #Gaza, which consists of three stages.
The first stage:-
The first phase includes the start of a humanitarian truce for two weeks, which can be extended for two or three weeks, during which #Hamas releases 40 #Israeli detainees, women and children (under 18 years old), and elderly males, especially the sick.
In return, #Israel releases 120 #Palestinian prisoners of the same two categories, during which hostilities cease, tanks withdraw, and food and medical aid, fuel and cooking gas flow to the #Gaza Strip.
The second phase:-
Establishing a #Palestinian national dialogue under #Egyptian sponsorship with the aim of “ending the division,” and forming a government of technocrats (independents) that will supervise humanitarian relief issues, the #Gaza Strip reconstruction file, and paving the way for #Palestinian general and presidential elections.
third level:-
A complete and comprehensive ceasefire, and a comprehensive prisoner exchange deal that includes all #Israeli soldiers with #Hamas, the Islamic Jihad movement, and other factions, during which an agreement will be reached on the number of #Palestinian prisoners that #Israel will release, including those with high convictions, and those who were arrested by #Israel after October 7th.
The final stage includes an #Israeli withdrawal from the cities of the #Gaza Strip, and enabling the displaced to return to their areas in #Gaza and the northern Strip.

Posted by: Kil Petut | Dec 24 2023 14:01 utc | 26

When the fighting is over, we will learn how well the Trophy active protection system on Israeli Merkava tanks worked. From the blurry videos released by Hamas, it appears that they are getting some mobility kills, but it is unclear if the Merkavas hit by tandem RPG warheads are being destroyed. If the crews survive and the tanks are repairable, then Hamas is not really doing much damage. Trophy does not seem to be able to counter drones, so the Merkavas are getting turret screens attached. If Hamas had more drones, they could probably take out a lot of Israeli armor. Based on the latest fighting in Ukraine and Gaza, it looks like armored vehicles may become an endangered species on the modern battlefield.

Posted by: HH | Dec 24 2023 14:07 utc | 28

The final stage includes an #Israeli withdrawal from the cities of the #Gaza Strip, and enabling the displaced to return to their areas in #Gaza and the northern Strip.
Posted by: Kil Petut | Dec 24 2023 14:01 utc | 26
The best this can achieve is a return to the pre 7 October state. The best.

This 3-phase road to nowhere leaves unaddressed the total domination of the Gaza strip by the IDF by sea, air, land and in the information and energy space.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 24 2023 14:09 utc | 30

Mark2 @ 13.48
Thanks for reply.
Am enjoying the drink, it’s 22.06 Christmas Eve in China.
More important things to consider now.
I have almost completed my post on Auschwitz.
Will post on open thread tomorrow and put a prompt here.
Please don’t dismiss as “Denialism “, it is more complicated than that. There is no doubt that there was a concentration camp and many died, many Jews died , but, there are other factors I didn’t know till last week and perhaps you don’t know too.
Prepare to reconsider your prejudices.

Posted by: Walt | Dec 24 2023 14:15 utc | 32

apologies if this has been posted before, Dec 21st:
Hezbollah Strikes Two Iron Dome Batteries in New Escalation
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/hezbollah-artillery-air-defence-escalation

Posted by: SOS | Dec 24 2023 14:15 utc | 34

Hezbollah Strikes Two Iron Dome Batteries in New Escalation
Posted by: SOS | Dec 24 2023 14:15 utc | 34
Impressive and ominous for Zionazis if true.
I’m looking around for confirmation of this.
Not good advertising for the system …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 24 2023 14:18 utc | 36

The biggest problem I see is that no matter how much Palestinians play by the rules: treat captives well, win in face to face fighting, engage in good faith in a sham peace process etc. Israel just increases the barbarity when they face a defeat.
When Al Qassam et al win man to man against the Diaper Army, what do they do? They take more captives and torture them. They also bomb harder with more dangerous weapons. It’s about 4,700 held in admin detention since Oct 7 (in addition to the 5,000 from before)
HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THIS??? I thought NATOs war crimes over the last 30 years were bad. This is a whole new level.
MASS EXECUTIONS
Gaza (Quds News) – The Government Media Office in Gaza has revealed that the Israeli occupation forces had committed field execution crimes against more than 137 Palestinian civilians in the governorates of Gaza and the Northern Gaza.
The Director-General of the Media Office, Ismail Thawabteh, stated in a press conference yesterday evening that they received testimonies about the IOF establishing detention camps east of Gaza City. In these camps, large pits were dug, and dozens of Palestinian citizens, who were alive, were placed in them. They were then executed by direct gunfire and buried with bulldozers.
He confirmed that these crimes were repeated in Gaza City and the Northern Gaza province through the execution of dozens of civilians in front of their families. The occupation forces also executed pregnant women on their way to Al-Awda Hospital in northern Gaza, even as they raised white flags. However, the occupation forces shot them at close range and then bulldozed and crushed them to death.
Thawabteh added that the office would later reveal field execution crimes committed by the Israeli occupation forces against dozens who were arrested and buried in mass graves.
With 78 days into the genocidal war, the Israeli occupation forces committed 1,720 massacres, he added, resulting in 27,258 civilian victims and persons unaccounted for. Among them are 20,258 documented martyrs, including 8,200 children, 6,200 women, 310 medical staff, 35 civil defense personnel, and 100 journalists.
Thawabteh stated that 7,000 people are still missing, either under the rubble or with unknown fates. 70% of these are children and women.
Regarding hospitals, the Israeli forces targeted more than 23 hospitals, rendering them out of service. They also targeted 53 health centers, affecting the provision of health services. The occupation targeted 140 health facilities, impacting the healthcare services provided. Additionally, 102 ambulances were targeted, suffering complete damage.
https://qudsnen.co/?p=42040
There’s more about buildings destroyed.

Posted by: pq | Dec 24 2023 15:01 utc | 38

Obviously the “plan” was to ethnically cleanse Gaza into the Sinai. Blinken’s first trip immediately after 7/10 was to Egypt. And Netanyahu was taking about immediately too. But like all US imperial plans it wasn’t fully developed and nobody had gotten Egyptian buy-in before they tried to implement the plan. So like most of the US “plans” it fell apart on first contact with reality.
Everything since has been incompetent and reactionary. Once upon a time the empire may have been competent. But the people in charge now are degenerates. They’ve never built anything or developed and executed a complex plan. They rose through the corporate management ranks not by brilliance or hard work but connections and bureaucratic politics.

Posted by: Lex | Dec 24 2023 15:46 utc | 40

@countrumford | Dec 24 2023 13:27 utc | 7
The Houthis, too. The troubles in the Red Sea caused by the Houthis will primarily hurt Egypt.

Posted by: SG | Dec 24 2023 15:52 utc | 42

https://twitter.com/ME_Observer_/status/1738908822972879317
Posted by: Kil Petut | Dec 24 2023 14:01 utc | 26
Yeah right. This would be a great plan if the order were reversed.
1. Complete ceasefire and withdrawal and enable displaced to return. Ceasefire in WEST BANK ALSO.
2. All for all hostage swap with guarantees that Israel won’t arrest more.
3. Reconstruction and talk of governance.
In the order of the tweet it’s ridiculous.
Israel gets back 40, releases 120 and takes 500 new hostages. Gets back to bombing even more brutally. More mass executions. Then does rinse repeat until all Israelis released and there are twice as many Palestinians in jail as there are today.

Posted by: pq | Dec 24 2023 15:57 utc | 44

Posted by: HH | Dec 24 2023 14:07 utc | 28
Based on the latest fighting in Ukraine and Gaza, it looks like armored vehicles may become an endangered species on the modern battlefield.
What it looks like is that all the large mechanical devices are of greatly diminished value owing to the new smart munitions. That includes armored vehicles, aircraft, and naval vessels. What is going on is asymmetric warfare with the active combatants adjusting the fastest. That leaves our NATO forces with semi-obsolete armed forces.

Posted by: Jmaas | Dec 24 2023 16:04 utc | 46

@Chas number 17
Thanks for the link to this article. Excellent review and thinking, well-written.

Posted by: botete | Dec 24 2023 16:22 utc | 48

RE: **””High income professionals appear less threatened by multiculturalism. ***” “
(It’s because it doesn’t reach their inner circle’s & livelihood.. they’re not scraping and bumping up against actual divisions in communities or workplaces, nor do they care… )
“They like boasting about where they went for their latest conference. They are ethnocentric about Empire’s way being superior. Either out of genuine belief or cowardice ***they are the Enforcers of Empire”. *** ( while all of their oligarchy are of an Anglo descent) Mostly they try hard to **virtue signal their non racism. *** ( while the same Western Anglos war against every race other than Anglo)
“Then there are those who genuinely feel threatened by immigrants. They believe that all the*** problems in society are the immigrant’s fault.(***It’s by design of It’s Big Business importing slave labor to keep labor non-competitive & low, as well as for decades, to divide nation into their fake 2-party system***) unfortunate.”
Posted by: pq | Dec 24 2023 15:59 utc | 45

Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 24 2023 16:27 utc | 50

Walt @ 32
Thanks for this responce, i am pleased that you are the Walt i thought you were.
I’m always glad to see your comments,
A long time commenter, but all to ocasonal.
You have in the past informed us of how busy you are, your a sereous and knowlegable contributer with a brillent wit and style. I know i speak for many.
I say the above so you know when you publish your hard work. I wiil be giving it my full attention and will be prepared to alter my mind, becouse you have full credabilty.
To all… credabilty is very important.. dont throw it away.

Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 24 2023 16:37 utc | 52

“now declaring victory and saying it has driven significant Hezbollah forces off the border (thus giving it cover to reverse course on its threatened invasion):”
Posted by: Bob | Dec 24 2023 15:51 utc | 41
I appreciate the link. Truthfully, hard to know what plots and schemes are going on. The “drone India… Iran did it” thing didn’t get to far.
The only time I’ve ever known Ziotards to back off is when they were getting their tails whipped. I wouldn’t be surprised either way, a “mission accomplished” trope or full on Beirut Lebanon bombing campaign…
Still up in the air to me.
I do know, the criminal charges and other international organizations are being processed and they have managed to piss off some very important organizations & donors. The Arabs and Palestinians they could care a less about. But shippers. Bankers, businessmen, organizations thru the UN now having 100+ screaming families and lawsuits UN has to deal with. Expanded conflict may actually leave them on their own.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 24 2023 16:43 utc | 54

Posted by: pq | Dec 24 2023 15:01 utc | 38
It seems the same people who perpetrated unspeakable atrocities in Russia a century ago are at it again. Atrocity propaganda in WWII was so vividly depicted because they themselves had done far worse.
They will not stop unless they are stopped. The West has enabled them. Are there are other forces able to help stop this? It appears not, and so it will continue.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 24 2023 16:53 utc | 56

Arch @20, I think that the coalition is on crack.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Dec 24 2023 17:03 utc | 58

SG @ 1552
My take is that the hurt may or may not “hurt Egypt”, per se. The biggest hurt will fall upon the Quisling dictator, $I$I, who is but a comprador for the international investment class. Outrage is quietly building within the Cairo and Alexandria streets. Many of these stooges for highest finance capital are becoming rather a bit nervous regarding their futures, as they sense the bubbling volcanos under their collective fat asses.
The Hashemite regime in Jordan, a relic of the British Empire, may be the first one to crumble. Jordan’s population is more than 50% of Palestinian origin.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 24 2023 17:09 utc | 60

PQ @ 1559
There can be little doubt that mass migration into the industrialized, urbanized collective West is a problem. Part of the rationale for this phenomenon is skewed generational realities, with Italy in particular having a huge bulge of the aging as compared with youth and children.
The employer class is experiencing a dearth of native recruits for their businesses. So they support migration, to fill in those niches. However, the social care network is perhaps the greatest appeal to a probable majority of newcomers…why not get on the welfare gravy-train and fuck-all with going to work for some company.
Possible solution to the conundrum would be for aid packages calculated to establish working concerns in the migrants homelands…no grease and sleeze allowed by grifters in those lands. Concomitant would be an induced return to sender, financed by governments who currently support them. The rebounders would become first in line for the new jobs.
What I find notable and perhaps noteworthy is that a very high proportion of the migrants emanate from cultural backgrounds which are essentially indigestible for the host countries. Some modest portion of the migrants would be capable of genuine contribution to the lands where they have entered. So case by case assessments would be in order before the regurgitation steps would be taken.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 24 2023 17:24 utc | 62

Posted by: Chas | Dec 24 2023 13:47 utc | 17
Here’s a fresh look at the Israel problem…
What the Jewish people are, actually, is a mainly cultural group that has adjusted to living in other peoples society. To retain that circumstance they have to have a level of disapproval of the group they are living with or they would blend in and cease to exist as an identifiable and separate group. Thus, whoever abides them as an internal minority will always pick up their disapproval. The accommodating group will always be anti-Jewish. And of course, they will be thus through no fault of the Jewish people themselves.
For the Jews, the circumstance requires some justification for why they are living with people who are anti-Jewish. Using the word legendary to mean not false, but perhaps not always or entirely true, the solution is their legendary history. The story line is they were driven from their homeland by the Romans who never dispersed any other group in their empire, and are thus forced to live with anti-Jewish populations. This is a necessary vision because it is the means by which they avoid integrating and disappearing as a group. That makes their behavior in Gaza nothing more than a more intense version of their ordinary vision of reality. Unlike the anti-Jewish Europeans, the Gazans are so anti-Jewish that they have to be driven off or killed.
This overall vision of being an oppressed people who are forced to live with other people that don’t like them also explains why a lot of Jews don’t actually like the existence of Israel. If logic is envoked, it undermines the argument that they are an oppressed people who are forced to live among anti-Jewish populations.

Posted by: Jmaas | Dec 24 2023 17:41 utc | 64

Posted by: Pq | Dec 24 2023 17:54 utc | 65
I understand iimmigration is destabilising but whining about indigestion is not going to fix the problem.

You seem to have thought a lot about the mass immigration issue, so many people from all over the world flooding into nations developed by the horrible White people it is now universally fashionable to demonize.
What do you think is behind how so many are being jetted in from as far away as China with tens of thousands supplied with debit cards with monthly deposits long after they have arrived in their new countries. I find this very strange but have yet to read a detailed explanation of who is funding this and why. To me the only possible explanation is that it has something to do with engendering societal crisis or collapse from within prior to a ‘Reset’ or whatever.
In other words, it is supposed to be ‘indigestible’.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 24 2023 18:07 utc | 66

67 – They’ll probably be accused of having Stockholm Syndrome or even being traitors for not getting with the programme…

Posted by: Waldorf | Dec 24 2023 18:19 utc | 68

@Pq | Dec 24 2023 17:54 utc | 65

There is no social care network for newcomers and even the one for citizens is breaking down.

What? No social care network? What about free education in public schools, free healthcare, free kindergarten, public transportation at controlled price, citizen’s income etc.? The technical reason why the social care system is going down the toilet is the fact that its budget is reduced while the number of poor families is greatly increased by immigrants’ families. Immigration is a tool to transfer wealth from the poors to the riches: it keeps the working class divided, it subtracts resources from the working class (lower resources for many more poors), it keeps wages down for the lower classes, and its benefits are all for the financial elite. Both neoliberals and neocons are on it.

Posted by: SG | Dec 24 2023 18:35 utc | 70

Please be informed about this petition, and sign if you agree.
Declaration of Conscience and Concern of Global Intellectuals on Gaza Genocide
https://www.change.org/p/declaration-of-conscience-and-concern-of-global-intellectuals-on-gaza-genocide
In light of the current scheming about the future (‘solution’) of Gaza and Palestine, the Declaration makes a very important point about the right of the Palestinians:
‘We also support the Palestinian unconditional right as the indigenous people of the land to give or withhold approval to any proposed solution bearing upon their underlying liberation struggle’.
Palestine Chronicle:
More than 115 world leaders, intellectuals, academics, authors, and journalists have signed a declaration denouncing Israel’s genocidal assault on the Gaza Strip, calling for effective action to be taken to permanently prevent its repetition.
https://www.palestinechronicle.com/declaration-of-conscience-denounces-gaza-genocide-wests-complicity/

Posted by: JB | Dec 24 2023 18:45 utc | 72

The whole world loses all – and Palestine’s murdered children died in vain – if “israel” still exists when this is over.
Nary Christmas

Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Dec 24 2023 19:49 utc | 74

Pq@1754
Perhaps Pq/P.C. might be a more accurate acronym. Accusations of racism are out of the park Politically Correct amongst a subset of suburban, middling high-status, multiple degree-holding Americans. Do you fit into any of those categories?Though your take on Italy/Southern Europe may be more informed than my posting, that “welfare gravy-train happens to be de rigeur in northwestern Europe, particularly the Netherlands, Germany and the Nordic nations. So one size, by your statements, does not fit all.
Multicultural integration is fine…in theory…and particularly prominent in academicist, “liberal” circles. Liberality is a blessing, both for the one blessed and the person doing the blessing. LiberalISM, however, is an ideologically-biased social disease.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 24 2023 20:34 utc | 76

Modern warfare of the sort that evolved in WWI was already in place by the end of the American Civil War. By the end of the war, cannon were still the same but the rifle was a lot better: longer range and in some cases more rapid fire. The combination made it too deadly for open field combat, and by the end of the American Civil War, the fighting style was already the trench warfare that would dominate WWI.
The major mechanical devices — the tanks, airplanes and ships — are still useful to some extent, but not like they used to be. Money is much better spent on what I chose to call the smart munitions. Return per dollar spent way better.

Posted by: Jmaas | Dec 24 2023 20:55 utc | 78

@Scorpion 66, SG 70
If you only read MSM on Palestine, what impression would you have? Why would it be different for immigration? I don’t have your creative vivid imaginations. I like statistics.
Italy? in the midst of the 2014 refugee crisis, the “perceived invasion” (of refugees) was the top concern and 36% of Italians believed that there were around 20 million ….when in fact there were 136,00 were accepted relative to a population of 60 million.
https://www.unhcr.org/it/risorse/carta-di-roma/fact-checking/linvasione-dei-rifugiati-italia-numeri/
European refugee flows started with the invasions of Libya and Syria. Libya was THE immigrant destination in Africa. It was a wealthy and stable country with good healthcare and education.
The number of refugees / immigrants is NOT correlated to the number of scary headlines in the media.
Right now in 2023, e.g. Iran, despite all the sanctions etc. has 3.4 million refugees from Afghanistan and Iraq thanks to NATOs wars. They don’t whine about it.
You have a right to your fearful beliefs but you have cause and effect backwards.
It seems you don’t disagree that if some Palestinian Muslim manages to run away from the trauma of living under Israeli genocidal apartheid and makes it over here, the poor person who deserves a peaceful life may now be classified as an indigestible, like Hillary’s deplorables? I hope not.

Posted by: pq | Dec 24 2023 20:57 utc | 80

The diversified usa military is incapable of fighting and winning wars anymore?
FINALLY SOMETHING TO REJOICE ABOUT!!

Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Dec 24 2023 21:47 utc | 82

Posted by: pq | Dec 24 2023 20:57 utc | 80
I was thinking more about the recent surge on the US border which is 5+ million in the past 2-3 years across a border that has clearly been left open – in other words unlawful mass immigration is being encouraged. Why? I note you don’t have any explanation about how so man are being flown across the world and then subsidized by debit cards.
PC judgments about racism, vivid imagination etc. don’t address simple issues raised, are not in any case arguments, are impolite and therefore not worthy of response.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 24 2023 22:19 utc | 84

https://www.ynetnews.com/article/hk1zqobdt
I have wondered about this as demography is destiny. It’s amazing how much influence (dominance?) Israel has in EU/UK when one considers the growing numbers of EU/UK Muslims.
I noticed too that ads are now being run on cable TV (ADL?) expressing a repellent ‘concern’ for Palestinians “oppressed by Hamas”. That might be fair if they called for elections, otherwise it’s just hypocritical.

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 24 2023 22:52 utc | 86

For any who missed it, an excellent overview article in the Off-Guardian a few weeks ago: https://off-guardian.org/2023/12/05/10-questions-about-gaza-part-1/
The following is an excerpt of part of the second of five sections. There is a follow-up Part II article with further sections/aspects.

2. WHAT IS GAZA?
We are imposing a complete siege on Gaza. There will be no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. Everything will be closed. We are fighting against human animals and we are acting accordingly.”
Yoav Gallant, Israel Minister for Defence (9 October, 2023)
In 1948, Palestinians fleeing the Nakba fled to the Gaza Strip, whose borders were fixed by the armistice between Israel and Egypt in 1949. Initially administered as a protectorate of Egypt, Gaza was subsequently occupied by Israel in 1967 during the Six-Day War. To encourage Palestinians to emigrate, Israel began to consider and perhaps impose restrictions on Gaza’s access to water. Between 1967 and 2005, Israel established 21 settlements in Gaza that together occupied 20 per cent of its already limited territory. In 1987, on the 20th anniversary of the occupation, the First Intifada launched a series of protests, civil disobedience, strikes against Israeli employers, boycotts of Israeli institutions and the withholding of taxes. In 1994, following the Oslo Accords between Israel and the Palestinian Liberation Organisation, Gaza’s administration was taken over by the State of Palestine, which also exercised partial authority over areas in the West Bank. However, Israel retained control over Gaza’s borders, airspace and territorial waters, which it began to enclose in a militarised border barrier.
In 2000, the Second Intifada marked the beginning of rocket attacks on Israel by Palestinian guerrilla fighters and the tearing down of the Gaza barrier, which Israel began to rebuild the following year. In 2004, the barrier was extended to the border between the Gaza Strip and Egypt. In 2005, Israel formally declared an end to its military occupation of Gaza and withdrew 9,000 Israeli settlers from the settlements. In 2006, Hamas, the Islamic fundamentalist political party, won the Palestinian legislative elections and expelled Fatah, the social democratic party founded by Yasser Arafat, from the Gaza Strip. In response, Israel imposed a blockade on the Gaza Strip that continues to this day.
Although Israel describes Gaza as a de facto independent state, it maintains direct external control over the Strip and indirect control over life within it. In addition to Gaza’s air and maritime space, Israel also controls six of Gaza’s seven border crossings, only one of which was still open in October 2023, and it reserves and exercises the right for its military, the Israel Defense Forces, to enter Gaza at will. Israel maintains a buffer zone within the already limited territory of Gaza, which in 2010 it expanded to 300 meters, and on which newly-built Palestinian homes are regularly bulldozed. Farmers who try to cultivate the land are gunned down by Israeli Defence Forces. Palestinians, who are effectively imprisoned in the Gaza Strip, are dependent on the State of Israel for water, electricity, gas, telecommunications and other utilities, and the population is not free to leave or enter, or to import or export goods freely. As a result of this blockade, the Gaza Strip, with a population of 2.3 million people on 365 square kilometres of land in which 17 per cent is off limits to Palestinians, is the third most densely populated political authority in the world, and 70 per cent of its inhabitants live below the poverty line.
In December 2021, Israel announced the completion of the enhanced militarised barrier by which its blockade of Gaza is maintained. This runs 65 kilometres (40 miles) around the Gaza Strip and out into the Mediterranean Sea. The double-walled barrier cost US$1.1 billion to construct, extends 6 metres above ground and an undeclared number of metres below ground to block tunnels, and is armed with antennas, cameras, radars and a sea barrier. Watchtowers every 2 kilometres are equipped with remote-controlled machine guns, and motion sensors are inserted into the fence and the ground beyond. As a result of the buffer zone on the Gazan side of this barrier, 35 per cent of arable land and 85 per cent of fishing waters along the Gaza coast are off-limits to Palestinians. Under rules of engagement for Israeli soldiers, any Palestinian in this buffer zone, whether on land or sea, is shot on sight.
After 15 years of maintained blockade — but before the current attacks, which are exponentially worsening the living conditions — 52 per cent of Gaza’s population were unemployed, 80 per cent were dependent on international assistance, and 97 per cent of the drinking water was contaminated. 39 per cent of pregnant women in Gaza and 50 per cent of Gaza’s children were anaemic, and 17.5 percent of children suffered from chronic malnutrition. This is primarily because Israel only allows food imports that are vital for the survival of the civilian population. This threshold of survival is determined using a mathematical equation that calculates the minimum level of calories necessary to sustain Gaza’s population of 2.3 million Palestinians at a level just above the United Nations’ definition of hunger.

This part screams out to me: “Although Israel describes Gaza as a de facto independent state, it maintains direct external control over the Strip and indirect control over life within it.”
Some sort of Regional Authority needs to be established which takes away Israel’s ability to control Palestinians this way but it seems there is no will to do so, thus the Palestinian Naqba refugees pushed into Gaza in the 1940s are about to be pushed out of Palestine altogether by Jewish Israeli ethnic cleansing and the world will do nothing to prevent it.
I do not believe Jewish Israel will honor any agreement that is not enforced upon them nor that any force involving Westerners would be effective and, again, nearby States seem unwilling to create such a mechanism.
Therefore, I have suspected all along that a deal has been made, part of which involves Israel being able to finally be a Jewish-only State. I expect negotiations about mass Palestinian emigration to ensue soon after nearly all the major buildings in Gaza have been reduced to rubble. (That the US currently has no border controls might facilitate this somehow.) After the Palestinians have left, the plan is to rebuild Gaza as part of a new ‘Gaza Canal’ development connecting to the Red Sea undercutting much of the considerable world trade between Asia and Europe now freighting through the Suez canal.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 24 2023 23:03 utc | 88

Footnote to LoveDonbass. Voltairenet’s secular analysis of politics ignores religion in its totality. But makes sense to me as an analysis of the non-religious PTB who run the West. Much to the extreme irritation of my friends in political Islam.
To me political Islam is as devoid of Islam as the surface of the moon is devoid of water, or green cheese. Political Islam is a contradiction in terms, trying to oppose the Will of God.
Opposition to the Will of God is One of the things that Allah has decreed.
Li abluahum ayuhum ahsanee amalalah.
For Me to test them who is the best of them in deeds.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 24 2023 23:18 utc | 90

Re: Goals of Arabs
My guess is the Levantine Arabs currently fighting are not going to accept anything remotely similar to status-quo-ante.
1) They believe they are decisively defeating the IDF on the battlefield 2) They also believe Israel can not fight a long war of attrition. 3) They believe the longer the conflict stays hot; the more active Allies they gain

Posted by: Exile | Dec 24 2023 23:20 utc | 92

did anyone notice how the Guardian article which b refers to at the top about Christmas in Bethlehem this year uses the passive voice here, and what it means/suggests:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/24/bethlehem-forlorn-christmas-manger-square
“…Christmas celebrations have been cancelled across the Holy Land this year as the region mourns the Palestinians – now more than 20,000, according to the health ministry in the Hamas-run Gaza Strip – killed in the new war between Israel and the militant group….”
Who killed the 20,000?
And how?
I know I am probably nitpicking here but it jumped right out at me
I also thought of a quote by Jean-Paul Sartre when I wrote ‘And how?’, and here it is:
“Fascism is not defined by the number of its victims, but by the way it kills them.”
perhaps we can rewrite that Sartre quote and just say, ‘Zionism is not defined….’

Posted by: michaelj72 | Dec 24 2023 23:31 utc | 94

66 Scorpion. Globalization. If the international elites can make money anywhere in the world, so can the masses move wherever there may be a living to be made.

Posted by: Lavieja | Dec 24 2023 23:40 utc | 96

93 Ahenobarbus, 57 aristodemus What migrants is aristodemus referring to?

Posted by: Lavieja | Dec 24 2023 23:48 utc | 98

A very Merry Christmas to all celebrating Christmas:
Double Down News
@DoubleDownNews
“Jesus Would Be Killed in Gaza”
Peter Oborne’s Alternative Christmas Message @OborneTweets
https://twitter.com/DoubleDownNews/status/1738969600631488890

Posted by: Menz | Dec 25 2023 0:06 utc | 100