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Palestine Open Thread 2023-314
Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.
The current open thread for other issues is here.
Another demonstration of U.S. hypocrisy:
Readout of President Biden’s Call with President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority – White House – October 14 2023
President Biden condemned Hamas’ brutal attack on Israel and reiterated that Hamas does not stand for the Palestinian people’s right to dignity and self-determination.
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At UNGA, India votes for Palestinian right to self-determination – India Times – December 22 2023
India has voted in favour of another resolution at the UN General Assembly this week that backs the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.
While 172 members supported the resolution, the US and Israel were the only countries that voted against it.
Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
https://vz.ru/opinions/2023/12/21/1245411.html
Why did the US cause a commotion in the Red Sea?
by Timofey Bordachev for VZGLYAD
By escalating the situation around the Red Sea, the US administration is trying to entertain voters with new war games. In the couple of decades since the Cold War, they have created their own perception of their ability to intervene in any regional conflict.
One of the most difficult problems of international politics is that it is quite difficult for powers to reconcile their opinion of themselves with the way others see them. This is especially evident when the power and authority of the state are not destroyed as a result of a lost battle, but seem to slip between the fingers. In such cases, what would be a tragedy in other circumstances takes on tragicomic forms.
Even if the Americans and their allies gathered from the pine forest strike Yemen and subject its unfortunate population to new suffering, no one in the world will be afraid. What a few years ago would have looked like a formidable confirmation of the power of the United States and the West for all other states, this time may well turn out to be yet another proof of the discrepancy between their claims and real capabilities.
First of all, because the main goal of the entire US venture with a naval coalition against the Yemeni Houthis is not to solve an important problem for itself, but to show that the rapidly decrepit hegemon still enjoys authority. Let us, however, hope that the whole story with the so-called Operation Guardian of Prosperity will turn out to be empty chatter and will not lead to the death of civilians in Yemen.
It would seem that we need to start with the fact that attacks by the Ansar Allah movement (Houthis) against ships associated with Israel or heading there do not pose any personal danger to the United States. These missile and naval drone attacks began shortly after the bloody conflict over the Gaza Strip erupted in October. At the moment, due to tensions in the Red Sea, no more than 5% of the total number of ships in the waters from Egyptian Alexandria to the coast of Somalia have changed their routes (went to Europe, bypassing Africa). Although there is reason to think that if the situation remains tense, global carriers will more actively avoid the Suez Canal.
Another thing is more important: according to such an authoritative colleague as Alexey Bezborodov from the company Infranews, instability in this part of the World Ocean affects US trade with Asian countries by only 1-2%: the main goods go directly through the Pacific Ocean. The most important trade flows of the United States – China and the United States – Southeast Asia, therefore, are not affected in any way by the military activities of the Houthis. Therefore, by the way, for the United States, from a practical point of view, the decision of the Malaysian government to close its ports to ships flying the Israeli flag looks completely innocent – it also has nothing to do with American trade interests. Although it testifies to the growing independence of the countries of the World Majority, that is, it causes political damage to the United States.
The Americans trade with the European Union across the Atlantic, as do the supplies of energy resources there, which have successfully supplanted Russian oil and gas. Europeans are potentially the ones who suffer from changes in ship traffic, but they have already had their share of suffering in modern international politics. Europe has lost energy cooperation with Russia, spends more than the United States on the Kiev regime, and generally limits itself in every possible way. But the position of the European Union in world affairs is such that no one is particularly concerned about its fate and problems.
The EU countries themselves would never have decided to use force without American support and leadership. Firstly, they do not have sufficient military resources for this. And secondly, the Americans themselves will not allow Europe to do this. The more insecure the leader of the entire West feels, the more carefully he ensures that nothing happens there without his decisive participation.
Who is bothered by all the commotion around the Bab el-Mandeb Strait is Saudi Arabia: its energy exports to the European Union go through the Red Sea. However, it is difficult to imagine that the United States is so eager to start a new regional war for the sake of the interests of its allies, especially those joining BRICS in January 2024. And for the oil monarchies of the Gulf, the start of active military operations will most likely create difficulties. So far, the Houthis have only attacked ships associated with Israel. In the event that a war starts against them, any ships that are within reach may suffer. Therefore, as in the case of the Palestinian tragedy, the Arab monarchies will prefer not to commit the matter on a huge scale, and then resolve the situation themselves.
So, serious Western military activities in the Gulf of Aden and the Red Sea do not have serious interested parties behind them. But despite this, the United States looks very decisive: it proclaimed the beginning of Operation Guardian of Prosperity and assembled under its leadership a naval coalition, the forces of which would be enough for a small “non-contact” war. In addition to the Americans, warships from France, Spain, Norway, Great Britain, Italy, Canada and the Netherlands are involved in the operation. Bahrain and the Seychelles provide their bases.
In previous times, we would have witnessed another military aggression under a plausible pretext and with the goal of showing the whole world that the power of the United States will reach any fragile hut at the end of the world. Now, as naval experts note , an attack against the Houthis risks failing to achieve its main stated goal – to stop attacks on Israeli ships and restore calm on the seas. We have already talked about the start of the ground operation – no one in the West needs it.
Why is all this being done? It seems that the United States acts out of impulses, rather than conscious goal setting. Firstly, Washington is driven by the desire to urgently come up with some kind of story that would distract public opinion in the West from the controversial situation around Ukraine. It’s hard to argue against the fact that in recent weeks, the achievements of the United States and its allies in the fight against Russia have looked increasingly dubious. We, of course, should not take at face value the howls heard in Western newspapers about the “victory of Russia” and the completely deplorable situation of the Kyiv authorities. But given the military and economic circumstances “on the ground,” a certain amount of despondency is indeed present in the West.
This means that voters urgently need to be entertained with new war games. In this regard, an article in one of the American magazines is indicative, where the headline ominously reports that Houthi attacks on merchant ships could deprive the residents of the European “Garden of Eden” of Christmas gifts. And it doesn’t matter at all that all the gifts were delivered to retail chains in October and sold last week.
Secondly, the United States is acting out of inertia. In the couple of decades since the Cold War, they have created their own perception of their ability to intervene in any regional conflict without involving the international community. This actually worked out for quite a long time; the unfortunate fate of Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya is proof of this. Now the West has much fewer resources, the willingness of the population to accept another costly war there has also decreased, and the world is becoming less and less governed by violence. However, the inertia of certain behavior remains, and it is the most difficult to change.
In principle, Sullivan, Blinken, Secretary of Defense Austin and other figures forming the current US administration themselves understand how pointless the fuss they are engaged in is. This is even sometimes visible on their faces. But the self-image created in the USA and Europe does not yet come into contact with how things are in reality and how the rest of the international community sees them.
This inertia will constantly force Washington to replace real actions with window dressing. In order for the two pictures to come closer, it takes time and many more events that push Americans to accept the world as it is. And in the coming days, we will all become witnesses to another escalation of horror in the Western media, decisive appearances to the press and reports of downed Houthi missiles.
Posted by: Pepper Wish | Dec 23 2023 13:11 utc | 18
Two wrongs never make a right. I’m to the point regarding Israel that thoughts of repealing UN Resolution 148 would be justified, de-legitimizing the existence of Israel. The extreme racist beliefs of Zionism led by those in charge of Israel would justify repealing UNR 148. That the continued existence of Zionism is an affront to human decency, morality, and existence. That could also be said of many other terror groups from The KKK or Nazis to Al-Qeda (CIA) and ISIS (CIA-Saudi Arabia). That Hamas would qualify as a terror group depends on one’s viewpoint.
Side not. Does anyone find it surprising that after The UN voted on a watered-down resolution for a cease fire in Gaza recently that Israeli Zionists somehow ended up bombing and killing the entire family (and more) of a UN representative in Gaza? I’d say that that was IDF retaliation.
Ah, I keep reading our US news outlets as the mention the 1200 dead Israeli’s on Oct. 7th. Chock full of bullsh*t Israeli lies. Babies were not beheaded. Children were not raped. That Liel Hetzroni was actually, along with 11 or or others, slaughtered by The IDF.
While failing to mention the number of Palestinian children shot in the head by Israeli snipers prior to that day, the number of Palestinian children imprisoned in Israeli jails, etc.
Or that up to half of those murdered on Oct. 7th were murdered by The IDF in indiscriminate shelling, rocketing, and cannon fire from IDF helicopters, tanks, and troops.
While Israeli agents are active on U.S. soil deploying slander and libel of “anti-semitism” to silence critics on United States college and university campuses. https://thegrayzone.com/2023/12/17/registered-israeli-foreign-agent-campus-antisemitism/
As for historical discussion?
Mentioning the Nakba is practically forbidden in The United States. Moshe Dayan’s speech acknowledging the theft of Palestinian land, made by Dayan in 1956(?) is practically forbidden in The US. Or the massacres by RW Zionist terrorists prior to 1948, in Israel, supported by the Hagganah (IDF). Arab forces conducted their own retaliations.
Political corruption by Zionists in The United States?
That AIPAC is an unregistered foreign agent influencing U.S. Politics. That US Congress Members are actively representing Israeli interests in the United States as unregistered foreign agents – The Congressional Research Service does not name the number of US Congress Members possessing Israeli passports. Though it is suspected that up to 90% of US Congress Members possess those passports.
The racist Zionist Supremacist Government of Israel has now been caught in multiple lies. Israe-LIES. Concerning how many the IDF murdered on October 7th. As well as conducting genocide in Gaza. And numerous other Israe-LIES.
That the religious beliefs of Christian members of Congress – particularly those wishing to force God to bring about Armageddon, expresses itself as unwavering support for Israel and Israe-LIES and Israeli ethnic cleansing in Gaza.
That not even a Trump Presidency will serve to temper the crimes of the racist Zionist Supremacist Government of Israel. Trump simply blows hot air up his own a** regarding a peace deal if he were President. Jared Kushner’s Zionist Supremacist beliefs and constant diplomatic f*ck-ups during the 1st Trump Presidency will continue under a 2nd Trump Presidency.
That US Neocons persist in trying to produce a false-flag attack that they can blame on Iran, in order to attack Iran. Dick Cheney tried that back in 2007 with an alleged Iranian attack on a US warship in the Strait of Hormuz. Back then, The Pentagon sabotaged Cheney by releasing the actual tapes and history of Iranian harrassment that was S.O.P. and considered a minor nuisance. Cheney had egg on his face. Now? Neocons at the Pentagon have itchy trigger fingers wanting US citizens to die for Israe-LIES and Israeli Zionist racists.
As for Most Americans?
Most Americans are too busy trying to survive in our own country to give more than verbal support against racist Zionist Supremacist Government of Israel. Most Americans are two weeks away – a missed paycheck – from losing shelter and being unable to afford food. In America. This is thanks to Neo-Liberal Capitalism since Nixon and especially Reagan and Clinton; Clinton being the best Republican President that was not a Republican, we’ve ever had.
That most Americans are now tired of the endless wars. The US military leadership can not admit that the endless wars-for-profit fostered by Neoliberal Capitalists of the last 25 years has resulted in fewer recruits. The youth of America understand that to join The United States military is to fill a body-bag sold by Wall Street to The Pentagon, in a future war-for-profit. That the taxes a US soldier pays will go to paying Wall Street for the body-bag that their body will be shipped home to in a future war.
Still not enough?
Few mention United States–Israel Strategic Partnership Act of 2014. This law practically mandates that The United States turn over technology and money to Israel. Ever wonder how so much US technology and hi-tech systems end up being owned by Israeli defense companies even though US taxpayers paid for the R&D? That “law”. Mandated by US Law. Quite frankly, the law should be repealed.
That all Presidents of The United States have failed to enforce United States Code. Regarding the treatment of countries that possess undeclared nuclear weapons. Normally, sanctions would be triggered. Israel gets a pass by every US Administration since 1967. That Israel has been involved in nuclear technology smuggling rings (1990’s to early 2010’s) along with Turkey that provided nuclear know-how to Pakistan, resulting in technical transfer to North Korea, etc. prior to those countries developing nuclear weapons.
That Netanyahu has openly bragged about how Israel exerts control over the United States, over a time span of decades. That Netanyahu has deliberately sabotaged any two-state solution since Rabin was assassinated. No one would be surprised if it were revealed that Netanyahu orchestrated Rabin’s assassination, if that were to be revealed as true.
That the racist Zionist Supremacist Government of Israel ignored signs of Hamas planning an attack prior to October 7th. That unusual laxity occurred among Israeli border forces prior to October 7th, resulting in a poorly defended border. How convenient.
Another alleged factor in how US elites treat Israel is the alleged Epstein tapes. It is well known that many powerful people visited Epstein’s properties, properties that were heavily monitored with surveillance systems recording the behavior of many powerful people. It is well known that Mossad runs operations to gather compromising material on US business and political leaders. It is less well known how Israel runs many, many intelligence operations against the United States on US soil.
For instance, Israeli agents were deported from the United States in 2010 after infiltrating Nellis AFB in Nevada. It would also not have been unusual to run into Israeli Mossad of former Israeli special operations forces (Sayaret) outside of US nuclear labs such as Los Alamos or bases hosting the B-2 bomber. I don’t know what that Israeli Sayaret member was doing at a Greyhound bus stop outside of Holloman AFB back in 2004 but he did freak out when I asked whether or not he belonged to Sayaret Bn. Dropped a dime on him later to Provost-Marshall.
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I have a Jewish friend, Alex. Every time he goes back to Israel, he has to walk past what used to be his family’s ancestral land. His grandfather organized Jews and Arabs in 1948 on behalf of the Hagganah to fight against the Arab Legion. After the 1948 war, Zionists came to his grandfather and stole his grandfather’s land. Why? “You lived here for 2000 years and did not fight to free Israel”. That was the Zionist reasoning for the theft of Jewish property. The Arabs that had joined his grandfather to defeat the Arab Legion were forced from their lands into the desert.
If anyone is wondering about Israeli racism in India? I spent a month there in India back in 2010. Myself and two friends entered a Jewish restaurant and were chased out by the men there. We were “not the right people”. To one woman’s credit, she came running after us and apologized, saying “We are not all like that.” This is a first hand account.
Care has to be taken to differentiate between racist Zionist and Jews. As well as between Palestinians and Hamas. I am not even sure that Zionists of European decent are actually Jews.
We have the terrorists(?) of Hamas. We have the State-sponsored/State terrorists of Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing and genocide. Zionist Isreali LEBENSRAUM. Quest for living space. Where have we heard that before?
Every culture needs their own distinct space. That many cultures are incompatible with each other. I find that Israeli Zionism to be incompatible with US culture – despite US neocon leadership’s support for Israel – as much as I find Hamas and Palestinians to be incompatible with US culture and beliefs. That as humans, we all have a right to live until we violate another’s fundamental right to life. In the US, there is a saying (paraphrasing), “Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other man’s nose begins.”
I used to have some sympathy for Israel. That has been destroyed by Zionists over the last 30 years. I have none for Hamas. I have sympathy for the Jews and Palestinians caught between the two extremes. With the greater perpetrators of evil being that of the Zionists and their atrocities committed in Gaza.
Posted by: Anon1138 | Dec 23 2023 20:22 utc | 86
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