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December 22, 2023
Palestine Open Thread 2023-312
Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
Zionists are brazen liars, con artists and purveyors of jaw-dropping delusions. Posted by: librul | Dec 22 2023 14:08 utc | 1 At what point do the ceasefire negotiations start referring to return of Arab properties in Jaffa, Bersheeba, and Deir Yassin ? Posted by: Exile | Dec 22 2023 14:11 utc | 2 The UN is now ready to vote on a ceasefire agreement. Posted by: librul | Dec 22 2023 14:12 utc | 3 @Posted by: librul | Dec 22 2023 14:12 utc | 3 Posted by: librul | Dec 22 2023 14:20 utc | 4 “creating the conditions for a sustainable cessation of hostilities,” Posted by: mastameta | Dec 22 2023 14:27 utc | 5 What a disgusting spectacle. The criminality of our ruling classes knows no bounds. If we somehow escape deserved nuclear annihilation, there needs to be a reconing. These fucks cannot be allowed to hold power any longer. Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Dec 22 2023 14:29 utc | 6 They found a way to identify the fascist implantation in Argentina with the genocide against the Palestinians. If Putin had come down stronger on the Izzies for their ethnic cleansing of Gaza Posted by: librul | Dec 22 2023 14:36 utc | 8 Of interest to readers of MoA might be the following prospectus by Helen of Destroy (Helen Buyinski) on the criminalization of anti-zionist expression in the u.s. (otherwise known in the local vernacular as “antisemitism”) Posted by: Cuauhtemoc Negro | Dec 22 2023 14:37 utc | 9 @Posted by: Argos | Dec 22 2023 14:30 utc | 7 Posted by: librul | Dec 22 2023 14:53 utc | 10 much talk lately about estimating real IDF casually counts. nevermind that, if Israel fails to eliminate Hamas, the dual-passport settlers who left Israel recently due to security concerns aren’t coming back and there won’t be much new influx either. Posted by: mastameta | Dec 22 2023 14:59 utc | 11 By the time the UN gets a strong resolution passed, the Zionists will have finished their total destruction of the Gaza Strip. Posted by: Morongobill | Dec 22 2023 14:59 utc | 12 @Posted by: librul | Dec 22 2023 14:53 utc | 10 Posted by: librul | Dec 22 2023 15:02 utc | 13 @ Cuauhtemoc Negro | Dec 22 2023 14:37 utc | 9 Posted by: malenkov | Dec 22 2023 15:03 utc | 14 By the time the UN gets a strong resolution passed, the Zionists will have finished their total destruction of the Gaza Strip. Posted by: malenkov | Dec 22 2023 15:08 utc | 15 the conversations around which side does the wagging, US or Israel, are I think oversimplified on both sides, but while thinking thru that problem I was surprised to notice the remarkable likeness between Israeli so-called diplomats and US officials, they’re both bullies, delusional, and think they are god’s gift to the world, while seemingly unaware of how repugnant they appear to those not partaking of the same koolaid. Israel or the US, I don’t know who leads whom, and don’t see much difference between them. Posted by: mastameta | Dec 22 2023 15:32 utc | 16 with or without the cheeky remarks of pro genocidists, the future use of violence will seem far more reasonable as it occurs. we are all victims of the strategems being applied by a failed would be empire and the slavering murderers cowering beneath their wing. Posted by: Not Ewe | Dec 22 2023 15:43 utc | 17 Any practical tips on disposing of two million inocent dead bodys ? Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 22 2023 15:54 utc | 18 @ furies | Dec 22 2023 16:00 utc | 22 Posted by: malenkov | Dec 22 2023 16:12 utc | 22
Translation: To repeat: Posted by: Exile | Dec 22 2023 16:26 utc | 25 Argos@7…..they’ll be Jews, regardless of skin colour….. deception being what it is. Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 22 2023 16:27 utc | 26 Very good overview by Jonathan Cook on IDF’s Hannibal slaughter on Oct 7th. Posted by: daffyDuct | Dec 22 2023 16:28 utc | 27 @Exile, I might have to revise my earlier estimate down to 2.5 weeks from 1 month:
If key infantry brigades begin to see strain and need to be replenished against HAMAS at this point then it’s fair to assume others are feeling the strain too. Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 16:46 utc | 28 https://new.thecradle.co/articles/israels-golani-brigade-turns-tail-from-gaza
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 22 2023 16:46 utc | 29 If below is the current Reuters posting title about Occupied Palestine then talks about a ceasefire or prisoner exchange must not be moving forward Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 22 2023 16:47 utc | 30 RE: “The US stalled this vote until they got watered down language in the agreement.” Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 22 2023 16:52 utc | 31 Re: combat effectiveness Posted by: Exile | Dec 22 2023 17:00 utc | 32 From Simplicius’ latest (regarding Operation Empty Threat in the Red Sea):
That’s philosophy, folks. Substitute your verb of choice for another fresh insight. Who believes everything believes nothing. Who controls everything controls nothing. Who knows everything knows nothing… Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 22 2023 17:07 utc | 33 Abdul Malik Al-Houthi challenges America to a direct confrontation:
Well, they’ve put Uncle Sam in a spot … Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 17:08 utc | 34 How dare the Pope! Posted by: Surferket | Dec 22 2023 17:11 utc | 35 «purveyors of jaw-dropping delusions» Posted by: Blissex | Dec 22 2023 17:24 utc | 36 UN Human Rights Office – OPT: Unlawful killings in Gaza City
I’m sure they, the Zionazi’s, would have preferred to throw zyklon B instead of grenades into the room filled with women and children. Posted by: xor | Dec 22 2023 17:25 utc | 37 The Israeli authorities must immediately institute an independent, thorough and effective investigation into these allegations, Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 17:31 utc | 38 Is the situation in Palestine really that 2m poor starved israelis are being swamped by the 7m strong Gazans, and the IDF is running out of supplies as it is blockaded by the multipolar alliance fleet off their coast while there is a huge airlift of weapons and munitions from the BRICs warehouses for the al-Qassam brigades? 🙂 How short until the al-Qassam forces enter al-Quds? Posted by: Blissex | Dec 22 2023 17:35 utc | 39 How dare the Pope! Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 17:44 utc | 40 UNSC adopts watered-down resolution. 13 in favour with two abstentions (US & Russia). Posted by: jayc | Dec 22 2023 17:47 utc | 41 As someone said, “He who defends everything, defends nothing.” Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 17:51 utc | 42 The IDF is going hit a sudden, painful resource crunch and it’s not going to take as long as 4 weeks to get there. Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 22 2023 17:52 utc | 43 Why is it so hard to get the exact text of the UN resolutions? I never find them on the UN site until a week later. Posted by: Pq | Dec 22 2023 17:58 utc | 44 Israel thanked the US and said the resolution was unnecessary and the UN has no role to play. Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 18:06 utc | 45 Just saw Gutteres of US and his 4 points of how the aid is obstructed, the plight of UN and other aid workers, the (probably several sigma over baseline) incredulously large in ever recorded numbers of UN aid workers murdered (he said killed). I would add on that the per population supported versus numbers killed is probably not going into the stratosphere, but the mesosphere. Posted by: paxmark1 | Dec 22 2023 18:08 utc | 46 https://twitter.com/johnkonrad/status/1737956292436615453 Posted by: Naya May | Dec 22 2023 18:28 utc | 47 As expected, the U.S./Israel got everything they wanted. Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 22 2023 18:30 utc | 48 Arch @ 35, Posted by: Jane | Dec 22 2023 18:31 utc | 49 UN vote is done, both the US and Russia abstained but for two opposite reasons. Posted by: librul | Dec 22 2023 18:35 utc | 50 Do you have a reference? That is huge. Posted by: Pq | Dec 22 2023 18:49 utc | 51 Posted by: Pq | Dec 22 2023 18:49 utc | 52 Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 19:01 utc | 52 Demands the release of captives. Posted by: Exile | Dec 22 2023 19:02 utc | 53 How dare the Pope! Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 22 2023 19:09 utc | 54 RE: Posted by: librul | Dec 22 2023 18:35 utc | 51 Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 22 2023 19:09 utc | 55 james | Dec 22 2023 15:31 utc | 16 Posted by: watcher | Dec 22 2023 19:12 utc | 56 “Spain Blocks EU from Joining Anti-Houthi War” Posted by: Jane | Dec 22 2023 19:17 utc | 57 @ watcher | Dec 22 2023 19:12 utc | 58 Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 22 2023 19:19 utc | 58 The Washington Post does a legal analysis of Israel’s attacks on Gaza’s hospitals. It’s rare to see this sort of critical discussion run concurrent with US approved operations. Suggests there is a bit of nervousness regarding eventual consequences. Posted by: jayc | Dec 22 2023 19:23 utc | 59 The UN SC resolutions is not only “toothless”, it is meaningless. Posted by: JB | Dec 22 2023 19:38 utc | 60 RE: UNSC Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 22 2023 19:40 utc | 61 In response to Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 22 2023 19:42 utc | 62 be honest and say – resolution not possible, US/Israel are in charge and UN SC is helpless… Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 22 2023 19:45 utc | 63 John Helmer offers a very interesting update on the – increasingly crowded – situation in The Red Sea – https://johnhelmer.net/breaking-news-chinese-iranian-and-indian-warships-are-now-in-the-red-sea-gulf-of-aden/ Posted by: Gerry Bell | Dec 22 2023 20:14 utc | 64 Lebanese TV reports; Posted by: Exile | Dec 22 2023 20:16 utc | 65 Trubind1 @ 63 Posted by: Mark2 | Dec 22 2023 20:25 utc | 66 At least Reuters is admitting that Yemen is causing serious global logistic problems
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 22 2023 20:32 utc | 67 Arya – آریا 🇮🇷 Posted by: Menz | Dec 22 2023 20:38 utc | 68 Menz I really appreciate your posts. Short and to the point. Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 20:53 utc | 69 The war against Yemen has been going on for quite a while but it is getting special attention because they have the human morals to support Palestine. Posted by: Jane | Dec 22 2023 20:59 utc | 70 mastameta 17 Posted by: Giyane | Dec 22 2023 20:59 utc | 71 Re: Karish gas field Posted by: Exile | Dec 22 2023 21:00 utc | 72 While Russia, China and others were unable to move an acceptable resolution through the Security Council owing to USUKIS obstruction, Guterres did give voice to the disruption/withholding of humanitarian aid occurring as a result of Israel overseeing the process as well as continuing concerns regarding the ongoing genocide of Palestinians. No one owns the verified fact that Israeli’s are not only pilfering for themselves but also removing much needed medications, particularly all anesthesia so painful operations are done with no anesthesia and probably no prophylactic antibiotics to prevent infection. Posted by: abierno | Dec 22 2023 21:02 utc | 73 I admit that Russia is making a big mistake here. It finds itself in a new position as a superpower and does not know how to handle it. The person who is by far best equipped is Lavrov, who was already a diplomat in the Soviet era since 1972 and it shows. Even Nebenzya, the Russian rep at the UN, has been a diplomat only since the late 1980’s although his approach is also very much an echo of the Soviet era. Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 21:17 utc | 74 Jackson Hinkle 🇺🇸 Posted by: Menz | Dec 22 2023 21:18 utc | 75 Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 20:53 utc | 71 Posted by: Menz | Dec 22 2023 21:20 utc | 76 Another excellent piece of analysis of the genocide in Gaza and Germany’s proud role in it by Wolfgang Streeck Posted by: bevin | Dec 22 2023 21:29 utc | 77 Idf propaganda . Posted by: Hankster | Dec 22 2023 21:45 utc | 78 Exile drone attack on gas fields. Israel sources say was repelled. Iraq group claims hits. Israel bombed hezbollah hard after that maybe thought they did it. Either way this should be some kind of priority. Remember Ukraine said it was legitimate targets as revenue helped putin fund his war. Posted by: Hankster | Dec 22 2023 21:52 utc | 79 I admit the Pope is a mess too. If he wants to be the political rock star, he is doing it badly and with catastrophic effects. You may have heard that he issued a statement on blessing the same-sex couples. The wordage of the statement is (intentionally?) garbled. Now that may seem to have nothing to do with the topic here but, if he wants to be a political player, it has everything to do it. The news just broke that the Ukrainian Catholic Church issued its own statement to counter the Pope’s statement and said outright they are not going to abide by it. That has everything to do with politics because the Pope consecrated Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary early last year at the request of the Ukrainian bishops! And what does that have to do with Palestine? You figure it out. When there is turmoil in the ranks of his own church (and what I just wrote does not even begin to cover it), how is he supposed to defend the interests of the faithful, let alone others, in front of such ruthless players as Israel? The rabbis are not stupid and will try to undermine the authority of the Holy See, insofar as it had any to begin with. We already saw that when the South African rabbi told the Pope to repent of his sins, namely playing the role of Nazi appeasers like (arguably) the WWII pope did with the Nazis. Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 21:58 utc | 80 Posted by: bevin | Dec 22 2023 21:29 utc | 79 Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 21:59 utc | 81 @ Scorpion | 24 Posted by: Figleaf23 | Dec 22 2023 22:00 utc | 82 Posted by: Moonie | Dec 22 2023 22:03 utc | 85 Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 22:09 utc | 83 those pesky axis of resistance fighters Posted by: michaelj72 | Dec 22 2023 22:17 utc | 84 Will she turn out like ” rock star ” Giorgia Meloni ? Posted by: pq | Dec 22 2023 22:17 utc | 85 For those who haven’t yet come across this. Posted by: Valerie Swales | Dec 22 2023 22:21 utc | 86 This article summarizes a Haaretz article behind a paywall Posted by: pq | Dec 22 2023 22:30 utc | 87 Jonathon W Posted by: Giyane | Dec 22 2023 22:36 utc | 88 Responding to Maracatu @22 on the previous thread:
I agree with commentators who say that the Hamas raid on October 7th dealt a strategic defeat to Israel. But one thing that I have found missing in the commentary so far is what the strategic defeat of Israel will be like, concretely and materially. Posted by: Palm & Needle | Dec 22 2023 22:41 utc | 89 Posted by: Giyane | Dec 22 2023 22:36 utc | 92 Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 22:46 utc | 90 Good description of all the moves. Posted by: genocidal | Dec 22 2023 22:51 utc | 95 Posted by: Pq | Dec 22 2023 22:53 utc | 92 Posted by: genocidal | Dec 22 2023 22:51 utc | 95 Jonathon W 94 Posted by: Giyane | Dec 22 2023 23:03 utc | 95 Sara Wagenknecht is an intelligent old style leftie, you know, from before when you could count on them to think for themselves. If the secret services can’t blackmail her she should be better than anything on offer from the SPD and even die Linke. Posted by: genocidal | Dec 22 2023 22:51 utc | 95 Posted by: Blissex | Dec 22 2023 23:36 utc | 97 RE: Posted by: genocidal | Dec 22 2023 22:35 utc | 91 Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 22 2023 23:36 utc | 98
A victory over Zionism would not only involve Palestinians but all the major regional nations who will have to change the status quo that permits Israel to unilaterally dictate facts on the ground under cover of a 1940’s non-binding UN resolution without any Arab or Palestinian approval. RE: : “the UN is useless. The more urgent the need, the more vacuous the response.” Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 22 2023 23:44 utc | 100 |
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