Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.
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December 21, 2023
Palestine Open Thread 2023-311
Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
@ cadac | Dec 21 2023 19:47 utc | 67, who said, “I’m not at all convinced that the west, if not most of the rest of the world, will not effect a nice whitewash of the situation when this is over and the Palestinians will be left with little to nothing.” Posted by: Cabe | Dec 21 2023 22:27 utc | 101 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dDbnwQlCek Posted by: RLTW | Dec 21 2023 22:30 utc | 102 “Israel” and the slaves it owns in usa (basically all 3 branches of the government) are insisting “Israel” must keep control of inspections of all aid so they can keep removing anesthesia from all shipments. Because the more sadistic the acts they get by with, the more songs in their hearts. Everyone knows. Well maybe except for our resident carrion sniffer, g. Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Dec 21 2023 22:30 utc | 103 The Cradle has an excellent article about the “land bridge” and Ansarullah’s shipping inderdiction, “Yemen’s dagger slices through ‘normalization'”, exposing the de facto alliance of UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan with the Zionists. Posted by: pq | Dec 21 2023 22:31 utc | 104 Wilikins 38 Posted by: Giyane | Dec 21 2023 22:31 utc | 105 And I want to be on record as in full agreement with Jane and Sunny Runny Burger about Russia. How lame and disingenuous the “I want my cake and eat it too” yikyak coming from there while famine stalks all of Palestine Posted by: Jane | Dec 21 2023 22:41 utc | 106 WSWS turned me onto this film this afternoon. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 21 2023 22:49 utc | 107 Pepe Escobar said something interesting on Danny Haiphong youtube today. Posted by: pq | Dec 21 2023 22:56 utc | 108 “The time has come-it is long past- for a serious study of the question “Why did the Israelis become the Nazis?” canuck | Dec 21 2023 23:23 utc | 112 Posted by: bevin | Dec 21 2023 23:33 utc | 110 Lincoln Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 21 2023 23:40 utc | 111 When Christopher Black writes about International Law he knows what he is talking about. Posted by: bevin | Dec 21 2023 23:45 utc | 112 Palestinians are not allowed to drive private vehicles anywhere in Israel. Some are permitted to drive on behalf of Israeli – and in rare cases, Palestinian-Israeli – businesses. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 21 2023 23:49 utc | 113 Israeli and Israeli Zionist identity is based on an imagined and fictitious continuing “trauma” – such that Israeli children truly believe they will be killed for the simple fact that they are Jews if they were ever to set foot in the West Bank or Gaza. The mythology of Israel is propped up by a trauma industry that permeates every facet and level of Jewish Israeli life. Young Israelis take annual trips to Eastern Europe where they visit the Nazi concentration camp sites. As soon as they deboard their buses, they expect to be spat upon and accosted with anti-Semitism; they never are, but they remain convinced it’s real. It is a totalitarian society in ways that our Western elites currently only dream of, but which they are slowly figuring ways to implement – as evidenced by COVID, the surveillance state, the police/carceral states, and the as-yet behind the scenes Ministry of Truth. Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 21 2023 23:55 utc | 114 “Like my father before me I will work the land. Like my brother above me I’ll take a Rebel stand!” Posted by: RLTW | Dec 21 2023 23:56 utc | 115 “The extremist, racist propaganda is so very useful to prosper at the expense of both populations in the conflict.” Posted by: Cerena | Dec 22 2023 0:12 utc | 116
You might be right that the IDF doesn’t have much more in the tank, but in one month the infrastructure in Gaza may be irreparably damaged in which case Israel will be very close to achieving their goal which is not genocide but ethnic cleansing of that area, and probably soon thereafter the West Bank too. Begin 11 Posted by: Hankster | Dec 22 2023 0:23 utc | 118 Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 22 2023 0:18 utc | 119 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 22 2023 0:40 utc | 119 The time has come-it is long past- for a serious study of the question “Why did the Israelis become the Nazis?” Please remember some of the most powerful opposition to zionazis come from Jews themselves. I read this piece earlier today, and its interesting in that The Guardian can be counted to dutifully amplify the required narrative, but yet in this article they are highlighting the fact that Hamas is not as defeated as the Israelis would like the world to believe …
Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Dec 22 2023 1:18 utc | 122 The Christian commandment thou shalt not kill is actually mistranslated from original Hebrew and should read “Thou shalt not Murder” which is an important distinction as Torah teachings says “If someone wants to strike you, strike first” and is used as justification for murder by the right wing Israelis. We see this in price tag attacks against Palestinians and the current justification for the mass collective punishment in Gaza. Posted by: fingrinn | Dec 22 2023 1:33 utc | 123 Xymphora had a link to a December 18 Mint Press News article naming the Top 10 recipients of AIPAC political donations. Genocide Joe was #1 with a career total of $4,346,264 which seems quite cheap, per annum, considering the length of his political career. Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 22 2023 1:41 utc | 124 “Why did the Israelis become the Nazis?” Posted by: cafe_con_leche3 | Dec 22 2023 1:51 utc | 125 Jewish Voice for Peace in the US is bigger than a flee’s breath and they are mounting active dissent putting themselves on the line here in US. Bevin @ 11: Posted by: Refinnejenna | Dec 22 2023 2:00 utc | 128 “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.” ― Joseph Goebbels Posted by: PBR Street Gang | Dec 22 2023 2:00 utc | 129 Thanks! Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Dec 22 2023 2:10 utc | 130 How could people lie to themselves so much as to create new realities? Empire-of-lies indeed.
See, it was Iran that “instigated” this war, not 75 years of oppression, and land theft.
Not worth clicking on the link. It is here for reference. Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Dec 22 2023 2:34 utc | 131 I can’t lay my head on my pillow at night without my heart breaking for the Palestinians who have nothing like such comfort. I can’t reach for a tissue to blow my nose without wondering how the Mothers of Palestine help their toddlers clear their noses. I can’t hear the furnace click on without weeping for the Palestinians freezing in the cold. I can’t look at the toy the grandkids left behind without breaking down in utter sadness for the innocent kids of Palestine whose toys are long gone, buried with who knows how many siblings under the rubble. I can’t eat a meal without aching to send the plate of food to Palestine. I can’t use the toilet without wondering how awful it is to have to defecate in the open because there simply is nowhere else available anymore – and nowhere private. I can’t take my morning meds without a gut punch of grief for the many dying in Palestine for lack of medicine. I can’t put on clean underwear without wondering what it’s like to have only the clothes on your back now – and where is water to wash anything? Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Dec 22 2023 2:34 utc | 132 In the 19th century, European Jewish communities, increasingly enabled to participate in mainstream society as a result of governments coming more and more under the influence of the Enlightenment, began entering the middle class (and public bureaucracy and academia) in droves. ****They may have come under the influence not only of Enlightenment values but also some of the more negative aspects perhaps of the Enlightenment and what its values might have led to, coupled with the residue of past pre-Enlightenment beliefs (once religious, now secularised), coupled with whatever beliefs they selectively brought from their own cultures and histories.**** Posted by: Jane | Dec 22 2023 2:38 utc | 133 I must have missed all those billboards all across the usa that jewish voice for peace has been putting up for the last 30 years informing citizens that billionaire zionist jews own all the media and your government and they’re brainwashing you. Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Dec 22 2023 2:45 utc | 134 Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Dec 22 2023 2:10 utc | 132 Posted by: Jane | Dec 22 2023 2:46 utc | 135 DuchessAndBob Posted by: ld | Dec 22 2023 2:49 utc | 136 I can no longer write on this phone. I cannot see and my fingers are too fat Posted by: ld | Dec 22 2023 2:51 utc | 137 asad abukhalil أسعد أبو خليل Posted by: Menz | Dec 22 2023 2:55 utc | 138 Arya – آریا 🇮🇷 Posted by: Menz | Dec 22 2023 2:59 utc | 139 Posted by: Jane | Dec 22 2023 2:38 utc | 135 Posted by: bisfugged | Dec 22 2023 3:15 utc | 140 I would say to Putin that Russia is one of the great nations (greatest literature imo, music in European culture) that was emanating knew to undertake it’s wise pivot to the East and South – land of the future — and I a nobody for one am grateful for Russia’s promoting (with other countries) the instrument to remove the hegemon’s foot off the neck of the RoW (not the West in foreseeable future)…BUT .. Unfortunately the ME has erupted again this time with Israel actually going farther than since 1948 and committing unremitting genocide on the Palestinians before the BRICS had time to effect much the looked-for change in geopolitical relations and while, unfortunately, the hegemon’s crime is so visible heinous — that you like the Arab and Muslim countries also, one of which has taken the lead, Yemen, must also put this issue on the FRONT of the table and DO SOMETHING more and other than say what you are doing. Mr.Putin, sir, you are a master lawyer, you can work with UN Jurists and Humans Rights Watch, etc. (the committees that are convening), lawyers on the Genocide Convention, to create the legal documentation to envoke the Genocide charge to Israel that the UN can then act upon. The Palestinians are not to be expendable. Jonathon . Malaysia amongst Indonesia and other nations doesn’t recognise Israel as a state. It bans visa for Israelis, has had mossad commit assassinations on its territory and its old president has spoken out against apartheid and Zionist regime much to the aghast of fawning westerners. So to wanting to have no part of Israel’s economy to help commit genocide isn’t really much of a chinese issue than an actual omestic Islamic principle. China seems to be the one that’s OK doing business with everybody. As far as Singapore goes. It’s the old British bankers city , not so much of cargo as its islands made navigating more tricky. Anyway look up “Mahathir Mohamad and antisemetic” in a search to see pages of articles about his public views. He recently resigned after much pressure internationally and he was getting well past his prime age wise Posted by: Hankster | Dec 22 2023 3:20 utc | 142 bisfugges 142, Posted by: Jane | Dec 22 2023 3:52 utc | 144 Posted by: abierno | Dec 21 2023 21:59 utc | 94 Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 4:03 utc | 145 In response to Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 22 2023 4:27 utc | 146 How about 117 BC when Jews killed 240,000 Cypriots and wre subsequently banned from the island? Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 4:31 utc | 147 Which Holocaust ? Posted by: Exile | Dec 22 2023 4:34 utc | 148 Posted by: Jane | Dec 22 2023 2:38 utc | 135 Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 4:44 utc | 149 Re: Land Route Posted by: Exile | Dec 22 2023 4:45 utc | 150 ZH has a posting up with the title telling the story of Nikkii Haley’s brain
The potential puppet is practicing their lines Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 22 2023 4:52 utc | 151 Poor Hayley makes George bush seem a Mensa club member. The look of dumbfounded from her audience as they try to make sense of her words was funny. They willingly went there and still were confused Posted by: Hankster | Dec 22 2023 5:01 utc | 152 Posted by: Hankster | Dec 22 2023 3:20 utc | 144 Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 5:03 utc | 153 Jane @1920 Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 22 2023 5:07 utc | 154 Which begs the question ; why would the Arabs stop attacking the IDF if they believe they are prevailing ? Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 5:22 utc | 155 Posted by: Exile | Dec 22 2023 4:34 utc | 150 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 22 2023 5:37 utc | 156 Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 22 2023 5:07 utc | 156
wiki sv House of Saud Posted by: laguerre | Dec 22 2023 5:41 utc | 157 Posted by: PBR Street Gang | Dec 22 2023 2:00 utc | 131 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 22 2023 5:43 utc | 158 53 Trubind. Thank you for this outline of what’s in store to charge Israel with war crimes and Russia’s role in this. Your post moots my later- in- the -thread rant which I would have withheld has I read your post. I saw the Huff article but not Russia’s role in the actions to convene the committee. I am always playing catch up on the moa thread. 17, 38 Susan. Agree with your position. Recently Thousands of mostly Jews attended action in Times Square in NYC organized by Jewish Voice for Peace a major actor in Palestine resistance for years in US. @ pq | Dec 21 2023 22:31 utc | 107 Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 22 2023 6:03 utc | 161 Posted by: g | Dec 22 2023 5:52 utc | 162 Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 22 2023 6:14 utc | 162 IDF Clobber list;
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 6:15 utc | 163
While I agree it’s big, I not yet convinced this all won’t be brushed under the carpet and memory holed again. I’m far from convinced russia and china will actually DO anything substantial, now to stop the violence, or to enforce humanitarian aid or to outright condemn Israel and call for an end to the occupation as a crime against humanity. They are far from reliable in supporting the “cause” here. Let alone actually re-start any negotiations between Palestinians and Israel re 2 state solutions — all this is fantasy stuff in my view – patently unachievable in the real world. Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 22 2023 6:28 utc | 164 Arya – آریا 🇮🇷 Posted by: Menz | Dec 22 2023 6:35 utc | 165 Even the Finacial Times recognizes today that the US is screwed because of the genocide in Gaza. I am paraphrasing. Actually the headline reads “US looks feckless”. Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 6:45 utc | 166 https://t.me/ResistanceTrench/22245 Posted by: Hankster | Dec 22 2023 6:55 utc | 167 Posted by: Hankster | Dec 22 2023 6:55 utc | 171 Posted by: Menz | Dec 22 2023 7:04 utc | 169 While “Israel” continues to massacre civilians unpunished, US State Department officials are discreetly attempting to impede efforts to increase global pressure on the occupation. Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 22 2023 7:09 utc | 170 No doubt the blob will get a lot of mileage out of this Posted by: ld | Dec 22 2023 7:10 utc | 171 There is no two state solution. And there never was the possibility of one. Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 22 2023 7:13 utc | 172 Israel can and will keep doing whatever it wants with non-stop US empire support all the way. Who is going to stop them? No one is. Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 7:22 utc | 173 Contrast this report in MSM: Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 7:27 utc | 174 In the same publication (The Globe and Mail in Canada), is this going to be a turning point? Is the US really on board? Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 7:29 utc | 175 And this is how the Harvard president is now being crucified after she was spared after the hearing on antisemitism on campuses: Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 7:32 utc | 176 @ Menz | Dec 22 2023 6:35 utc | 168 Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 22 2023 7:33 utc | 177 fingrinn 125 Posted by: Giyane | Dec 22 2023 8:38 utc | 178 Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 22 2023 7:33 utc | 181 Posted by: Menz | Dec 22 2023 8:44 utc | 179 psychic numbing .. leads to compassion collapse….eg in this genocide situation ….Isr. very deliberately using their over targetting bombing shelling housing and hospitals to erase culture and as a people.. taking prioners ..dehumanising .fear…vengefulness… “every palestinian is hamas approach”. Posted by: Jo | Dec 22 2023 8:51 utc | 180 The Israelis have no shame, they lie at a drop of a hat to continue killing innocent Palestinian civilians, especially women and children. Posted by: Menz | Dec 22 2023 8:52 utc | 181 175 – They’re probably wondering, “Why is Fred from Stakeout in civilian clothes and acting up? Has he been transferred?” Posted by: Waldorf | Dec 22 2023 8:54 utc | 182 Posted by: g | Dec 22 2023 6:53 utc | 170
There’s no ‘both sides’ to this. Just as there is no ‘two sides’ to a rape. Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 9:23 utc | 183 The Houthis are smart… Posted by: Scuppers | Dec 22 2023 9:28 utc | 184 Andrew Coyne, who is the go-to guy in Canada if you want an opinion on politics, wrote the other day that Trump is habitually compared to Hitler because he IS Hitler. But let me ask you this: no matter what your opinion on Trump, would the curteny genocide be allowed to happen on his watch? Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 9:42 utc | 185 I’ve seen several references in this thread, and others over the last few months, to “Normal Jews”. What is a Normal Jew? Do they go to synagogue? Do they follow the teachings of their rabbi? In which case they will have been indoctrinated with the teachings of the Talmud since birth and by default will be supremacists in outlook. Or are secular Jews “Normal Jews”? If one is not following the teachings of the rabbis or attending synagogue, can one still be called a Jew? Jewishness is not a race, how then would one account for the Ethiopian Jews? Or the Ashkenazi? It is a supremacist religion, based on being the “ chosen people” of their god. So if secular Jews reject the teachings of the rabbi, are they still jews? Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 9:48 utc | 187 The one who most shaped my perception of the situation in Palestine was and is an atheist Jew, a communist. That is why I don’t want to generalize. Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 9:58 utc | 188 But let me ask you this: no matter what your opinion on Trump, would the curteny genocide be allowed to happen on his watch? Posted by: too scents | Dec 22 2023 10:14 utc | 189 Ivanka Trump officially opens U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem ==> https://youtu.be/WDV6pX1ZLYA Posted by: too scents | Dec 22 2023 10:18 utc | 190 Kites! White Kites of Hope and Angelic Love! 🙂 Posted by: titmouse | Dec 22 2023 10:21 utc | 191 Posted by: too scents | Dec 22 2023 10:14 utc | 193 Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 10:23 utc | 192 I am just extrapolating from my conviction Posted by: too scents | Dec 22 2023 10:31 utc | 193 Making Jews and Zionists synonymous is an Antisemitic Zionist Israel Neocon US Empire Trap Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 22 2023 10:32 utc | 194 Posted by: too scents | Dec 22 2023 10:31 utc | 197 Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 10:38 utc | 195 But everybody has a dog in this fight don’t they? Posted by: too scents | Dec 22 2023 10:42 utc | 196 Posted by: too scents | Dec 22 2023 10:42 utc | 200 Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 10:44 utc | 197 Lebanese TV reports: Posted by: Exile | Dec 22 2023 10:51 utc | 198 Posted by: Exile | Dec 22 2023 10:51 utc | 202 Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 10:58 utc | 199 Aristodemos @ 156: Posted by: Refinnejenna | Dec 22 2023 11:21 utc | 200 |
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