Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 21, 2023
Palestine Open Thread 2023-311

Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Comments

@ cadac | Dec 21 2023 19:47 utc | 67, who said, “I’m not at all convinced that the west, if not most of the rest of the world, will not effect a nice whitewash of the situation when this is over and the Palestinians will be left with little to nothing.”
Actually, “this” will never be over, because it is so big, and it is going to get bigger. The impact of how big and in what ways remains to be seen, but it is likely the biggest thing to happen to Israel/Palestine since 1948. Its magnitude will be measured by the behavior of the Israelis and the final tally of the casualties of the massacres they are perpetrating. Were it to stop outright today, it would still be very hard to live down and will be remembered as a blot on Israel, Zionism, and Zionism’s enablers, above all the establishment and government of the US for a century or more.
But it also has the potential to turn into a much larger massacre, especially because of the excess deaths to be expected from starvation, lack of water, and lack of medical treatment and attention, all directly caused by the ongoing Israeli blockade. If the toll is now between 20,000 and 30,000, what will happen when it becomes 100,000, or 200,000, or 1,000,000? Somewhere as the number grows to that magnitude, it will become the Palestinian Holocaust, and it will never, ever be forgotten nor lived down.
It is true that there have been many horrific massacres in the last hundred years, many with higher totals of deaths. Most of those cases have not been forgotten either, and their perpetrators have frequently suffered consequences. But what renders the Zionist case more egregious, along with a few others, is its very onesidedness, its lack of proportion, and also the length of time it has gone on. Above all, the fact that it has been abetted and sponsored by all the leading lights of the so-called “West” and its ruling class completely undermines any credibility those people and the things they espouse have in the world. That effect is going to long continue with various consequences, not all of them immediately predictable.

Posted by: Cabe | Dec 21 2023 22:27 utc | 101

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dDbnwQlCek
The night they drove old Dixie down. By “The Band.”
They’re taking down the Civil War memorial monument in Arlington National Cemetery.
So what the hell does that have to do with the Palestinians?
Well I’m Scott’s Irish. My family has been in the US since the early 1700s. We fought in every war from the French and Indian war up until today.
Before that we were the Border Scotts fighting the English. Before that we were the Picts fighting the Romans. The Romans built Hadrian’s Wall (Gaza) to keep us Picts isolated.
The Romans decided to march their 9th Legion north of Hadrian’s Wall to eliminate the Picts once and for all. Not one Roman returned.
Palestinians. This is your Hadrian’s Wall moment. The same sociopathic Jewish moneylenders who crucified an Arab Semite named Christ, who tried to eliminate my people in my home country of Scotland and who are in the process of destroying my people’s legacy here in my own Country. That is who you are fighting against.
Thus I feel an allegiance with you. Just as I began to feel with the Afghans back in 2002. Farmers by choice. Soldiers by necessity.

Posted by: RLTW | Dec 21 2023 22:30 utc | 102

“Israel” and the slaves it owns in usa (basically all 3 branches of the government) are insisting “Israel” must keep control of inspections of all aid so they can keep removing anesthesia from all shipments. Because the more sadistic the acts they get by with, the more songs in their hearts. Everyone knows. Well maybe except for our resident carrion sniffer, g.
And I want to be on record as in full agreement with Jane and Sunny Runny Burger about Russia. How lame and disingenuous the “I want my cake and eat it too” yikyak coming from there while famine stalks all of Palestine
right
fucking
now.
Talk is cheap so cheap. Russia can’t even bring itself to talk clearly. Useless for as long as they sit the fence!
I love the Resistance! Strength to all who are actually ACTING to Free Palestine!

Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Dec 21 2023 22:30 utc | 103

The Cradle has an excellent article about the “land bridge” and Ansarullah’s shipping inderdiction, “Yemen’s dagger slices through ‘normalization'”, exposing the de facto alliance of UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan with the Zionists.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 21 2023 19:03 utc | 54
The Cradle article is sloppy research and disinformation but anything that shows Zionists in cahoots with the “traitors” get clicks I suppose.
The primary source of all these articles is Hanan Fridman, the CEO of a small Israeli company Trucknet.
Trucknet.io
They have a digital platform, basically a trucking app where one can put bids, track real time and calculate emissions. In September 2023 they signed an MOU with Cox Logistics a Bahrain company founded in 2016 by a US Army Logistics Officer which services US military vehicle in KSA and Bahrain. They were very proud that Israeli tech would infiltrate KSA in this way.
https://www.jpost.com/business-and-innovation/all-news/article-757844
In December this Fridman guy started running around giving interviews to Israeli media. To Jewish News Syndicate Fridman declined to specify how many trucks were now running the land route daily, but noted that the maximum capacity is 300 trucks a day.
https://www.jns.org/uae-israel-land-corridor-operating-despite-war/
The Cradle article links to this article https://cars.walla.co.il/item/3629150
Fridman claims that 10 trucks made the journey
The most curious part is the UAE company that Trucknet claims to have partnered with. It only has one web page remarkably similar in content to Trucknet itself, an incomplete address and a twitter account opened this December with no content.
In conclusion: “ Following the success of the pilot, Trucknet received first transport orders from spice importers in the country, and exporters of plastic and quarry products. Tarkant connects to truck owners’ operating systems and locates trips where they are not fully utilized or empty. On the other hand, it presents the transport options to cargo owners looking for available freight, and carries out a tender for the cost of transport, in accordance with the minimum prices set by the truck owner. Once the winner and transport is found, the driver’s app plans an optimal route according to the size of the truck and the loading and unloading points, so as not to put a long truck into a crowded urban area, and a high truck to a road where bridges are lower.”
Fridman concludes “And so the Gulf states, Saudi Arabia and Jordan are helping Israel break through the Houthi siege.” (machine translation).
Does this sound like the governments of UAE, KSA and Jordan breaking the siege or does it sound like a sheister trying to sell his company?
In a November blog post in which he equates Hamas with ISIS he quotes Churchill, ““Never let a good crisis go to waste”
https://www.trucknet.io/the-role-of-transportation-in-supply-chain-management-in-israel-during-wartime/

Posted by: pq | Dec 21 2023 22:31 utc | 104

Wilikins 38
Psyche = soul = spirit = rouh.
The function of the soul is to get our intelligence to turn its attention to fulfilling our needs on Judgement Day , that the balance of our good deeds is heavier than our bad ones.
The function of psychology is to address the sacrifices we make of our desires in order to keep the soul happy.
I see no evidence that modern Jewry in Israel is listening to its souls’ advice against fulfilling their desires to own Israel which belongs to Palestinians.
Why is the great Satan encouraging and enabling Jewry to glut on what is forbidden when the Jewish religion forbids murder, stealing, bearing false witness ?
In Jewish teachings as narrated by their prophet Eesa AS, Jesus, Messiah son of Mariam, who was a scholar of Judaism, this genocide is Temptation, or as the Qur’an describes it about the Jews, what they sent forward to their Day of Judgement of evil, which is what they are doing now. This is Nothing to do with the political outcomes of politics. This is about a fitnah, a deep struggle between the desires and the soul.
The Qur’an also explains that Satan and Temptation are sent by God to those who neglect His worship. This is focus our human attention on what direction we’re heading, in other words a wake-up call.
God didn’t send an enemy to defeat the Children of Israel when they worshipped the golden Calf, He sent a friend, their own prophet Moses AS to chastise them.
The US and its nuclear bombs are a satanic enemy to Israel. 100 % the US is kneading Judaism into Temptation.
Who will rein them.in and chastise them for this genocide of Palestinians?
Maybe they will listen to prophet Eesa AS. Or Imam Mahdi. I doubt it.
It will have to be somebody from amonst themselves and somebody who deeply understands both politics and Judaism, to stop this wickedness of genocide and stop them listening to the temptations of the US zionist neocons and British Atlantacists who have recently trashed Ukraine.
Maybe SA chief Rabbi Warren Goldstein is that man? He must understand apartheid if he is South African. That’s the easy way.
The hard way is punishment by total destruction and Babylonian subjugation.
Again.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 21 2023 22:31 utc | 105

And I want to be on record as in full agreement with Jane and Sunny Runny Burger about Russia. How lame and disingenuous the “I want my cake and eat it too” yikyak coming from there while famine stalks all of Palestine
Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Dec 21 2023 22:30 utc | 106
+++++++++++
Thanks!
Actually my much longer and considered post regarding the very questionable retooling of a certain word by a certain blonde lady never saw the light of day here.

Posted by: Jane | Dec 21 2023 22:41 utc | 106

WSWS turned me onto this film this afternoon.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/12/05/dwly-d05.html
I can offer a solid recommendation. It’s worth the $5 fee to watch. Only up until January 1 and you have 24hrs to finish after starting. Roughly 1 hour and 24 minutes long. Very enlightening.
https://www.israelismfilm.com/

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 21 2023 22:49 utc | 107

Pepe Escobar said something interesting on Danny Haiphong youtube today.
On the sideliines of some Atlanticist conference in Astana he met Edward Luttvak one of these Jewish geopolitical types very influential in the District of Corruption, advising Pentagon etc. for 50 years.
Luttvak is obsessed with the war in China. He says the war has started, it’s the only war which matters, China will lose. He said as much in a panel on China. According to Pepe this is dangerous because what he says reflects consensus among powerful players in the Beltway.
In a short conversation on Israel, Pepe asked him, “Edward, what is Israel’s strategy in the end?” Luttvak said:
Don’t touch us. Or we will kill you
Pepe said, so that precludes the use of diplomacy? to which Luttvak replied, “NO DIPLOMACY”.
This is the mentality that Palestinians have to deal with.

Posted by: pq | Dec 21 2023 22:56 utc | 108

“The time has come-it is long past- for a serious study of the question “Why did the Israelis become the Nazis?”
Posted by: bevin | Dec 21 2023 16:28 utc | 11
I am of the opinion you are outthinking the question; instead of prolix intellectual explanations how about simply employing Occam’s razor and accept a Freudian explanation:
The child (Jews under the Nazis) learn from the Father figure (Nazis killing abusing Jews) and when they become the Father (1948, Nakba) abuse their children (the Palestinians)

Posted by: canuck | Dec 21 2023 23:23 utc | 109

canuck | Dec 21 2023 23:23 utc | 112
If that explanation works for you adopt it.
It is nonsense, as you are almost certainly aware but if you want to wear a clown’s hat, bde my guest.
I’m not looking for a ‘prolix” intellectual explanation- you are being deliberately insulting by suggesting that I am.
These are serious questions those who use them as excuses to show off are like raucous drunks at a funeral service.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 21 2023 23:33 utc | 110

Lincoln
Wilson
Truman
Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 21 2023 22:13 utc | 100
yes.
and Nixon unleashed the FRB

Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 21 2023 23:40 utc | 111

When Christopher Black writes about International Law he knows what he is talking about.
In this article he begins by explaining that the Canadian government was lying when it accused China of taking the “two Michaels” as hostages. They were, as it knew, spying.
“….But the single incident that proves the Israeli intentions, is the murder of the three Israeli prisoners held by Hamas in Gaza, who were shot multiple times by the Israeli soldiers several days ago, The three had managed to escape and make their way towards Israel forces, with their shirts off to make sure the Israelis could see they were unarmed, not Hamas fighter, and they carried a white flag and called out for help in Hebrew, The white flag is the internationally recognised symbol of surrender. A white flag signifies to all that someone is unarmed, with an intent to surrender or a desire to communicate. Persons carrying or waving a white flag are not to be fired upon. This has been international law since ancient times. The white flag was used in Han China, in the Roman period and in all wars.
“They were gunned down without mercy. The Israelis claimed their men made a mistake. They thought they were under threat, that the flag was a ruse by Hamas fighters. But no one is going to believe them when the findings of their own inquiry are that there was no threat whatsoever. Then why were they shooting? It is clear. They were shot as deliberate policy by the Israeli army, which claims to take prisoners, but instead has shown it will shoot down any Hamas fighters trying to surrender. Their so-called rules of engagement cannot be what they claim. Those soldiers were clearly ordered to shoot everyone and white flags? Ignore them. Shoot to kill.
“And what will happen to those soldiers, their commanding officers, for this crime? Nothing, They have been exonerated already. It was all a mistake. More “mistakes” will take place because for them, dead Palestinians are good Palestinians.
“And what about international criminal law? Well, what about it? The International Criminal Court Prosecutor has done nothing, said nothing, apparently thinks nothing. The world demands the ICC issue charges against Netanyahu and his government and army, but in response the ICC remains silent, is thereby complicit, confirming its illegitimacy as a world court. It has proven itself to be, once again, a tool of power politics, a tool of the West…”
https://journal-neo.su/2023/12/21/white-flags-black-flags-wheres-the-flag-of-peace/

Posted by: bevin | Dec 21 2023 23:45 utc | 112

Palestinians are not allowed to drive private vehicles anywhere in Israel. Some are permitted to drive on behalf of Israeli – and in rare cases, Palestinian-Israeli – businesses.
Militarily occupied settler colonial genocidal apartheid police state. Israel is, at its foundation, a lie. This simple fact explains exactly the vast amount of effort and resources must be put into a systematic propaganda psyop both here in the West and among young Israeli citizens. It explains why such a nation would take part in assassinations of the flesh and of character to maintain the lie; to wit, the lengths to which it has, and will always continue to go. It explains the ruthless genocidal attempt at complete expulsion of the Gazans and, coming soon to a theater near you, the West Bank.
The facts are out there. What is the world going to do about it?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 21 2023 23:49 utc | 113

Israeli and Israeli Zionist identity is based on an imagined and fictitious continuing “trauma” – such that Israeli children truly believe they will be killed for the simple fact that they are Jews if they were ever to set foot in the West Bank or Gaza. The mythology of Israel is propped up by a trauma industry that permeates every facet and level of Jewish Israeli life. Young Israelis take annual trips to Eastern Europe where they visit the Nazi concentration camp sites. As soon as they deboard their buses, they expect to be spat upon and accosted with anti-Semitism; they never are, but they remain convinced it’s real. It is a totalitarian society in ways that our Western elites currently only dream of, but which they are slowly figuring ways to implement – as evidenced by COVID, the surveillance state, the police/carceral states, and the as-yet behind the scenes Ministry of Truth.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 21 2023 23:55 utc | 114

“Like my father before me I will work the land. Like my brother above me I’ll take a Rebel stand!”
Get after it Palestine! Kick their fucking asses! Make them pay! After 30 years of fighting the Muslim, I understand that we are the same. We have a common enemy.

Posted by: RLTW | Dec 21 2023 23:56 utc | 115

“The extremist, racist propaganda is so very useful to prosper at the expense of both populations in the conflict.”
Posted by: g | Dec 21 2023 16:51 utc | 15
If you want to go this road of lecturing “others” on morality, here are some historical facts that the zionzied MSM and educational system never touch:
The Armenian Genocide was organized and run by Dönmeh. You should know your tribe’s history, “g:” Dönmeh were a crypto-jew sect in Turkey, which produced Young Turks who organized the mass murder of 1.5 millions of Armenians.
Enters a rabidly Russophobic banker Jacob Schiff, an organizer of the Russo-Japanese war 1904/1905, complete with revolutionary agitators (see the Milejkowsky’s financing of Hamas, “g?”). These efforts did produce the First Russian revolution in 1905. But these results were not adequate for the jewish banksters in the UK, Germany, and US. Next was the financing of Bronstein (Trotsky) and other jewish revolutionaries…
The Bolshevik revolution followed at the time when Russia was weakened during WWI. Among the worst genociders of Russians (the melting pot of the Russian empire) were jews. They were the organizers of GULAG (a system concentration camps), the sadistic secret police, the mass murders of officer corps, poets, philosophers, clergy, nobility … In the millions of the human beings. Jews own an enormous bloody debt to the Russians, Ukrainians, Kazakhs… It was Shaya Itsikovich (Goloschyokin) who organized and run the Goloschyokin Genocide that eliminated 40% of all Kazakhs. Shaya Itsikovich (Goloschyokin) was an obnoxious racist hating all “others.” He ran the Kazakh Autonomic republic “with virtually no outside interference as a local dictator. Shaya Itsikovich was also active in the execution of the Tsar’s family.
Are you still in the woods why decent people are disgusted with Madeleine Albright (a daughter of a jewish thief Korbel), who proclaimed that the death of 500,000 Iraqi children was worth it), and with certain Stuart Seldowitz, a sadistic zionist? None other ethnic group but chosen has been the loudest about its “superior morality” and “incomparable victimhood.” The ongoing genocide/holocaust of the Palestinian babies, toddlers, women, and infirm by Israelis has been televised. These anti-human facts of sadism and murder define the image of zionism for the global populations. Tell us, “g,” why Milejkovsky (bibi) who has zero Semitic/ancient Jewish blood in his veins quotes tora and talmud to justify the Israeli‘s mass murders of children and women, while pretending to be the first jew among all jews? Jewish supremacism would be comical if not the psychopathic characteristics of the tribe. “Psychopathy is a mental health condition characterized by impaired empathy, the absence of remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits.”

Posted by: Cerena | Dec 22 2023 0:12 utc | 116

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 21 2023 20:23 utc | 79
I give that one month more.

You might be right that the IDF doesn’t have much more in the tank, but in one month the infrastructure in Gaza may be irreparably damaged in which case Israel will be very close to achieving their goal which is not genocide but ethnic cleansing of that area, and probably soon thereafter the West Bank too.
Now: will Hezbollah and Hamas go for penetrating attacks into Israel including Tel Aviv as you say? Well, that remains to be seen, but if they do, the level of aerial bombardment they can expect from both Israel and US forces will be considerable.
In any case, it seems the goal is to move the people out of Gaza permanently. It is by no means decided but a lot on the ground has changed in only two months and it is already not clear how people can rebuild lives in Gaza if Israel will not permit reconstruction and the international order remains the same, essentially allowing Israel to decide such matters. Hopefully the diplomatic-political front will achieve some sort of breakthrough, but given the track record the past century or so, there can be no guarantees.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 22 2023 0:18 utc | 117

Begin 11
Here’s a ukronazi kid . He seems fully comfortable merging Nazism Ukrainian and Zionism.
https://t.me/antinatocoalition/14239

Posted by: Hankster | Dec 22 2023 0:23 utc | 118

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 22 2023 0:18 utc | 119
I dunno. It’s pretty presumptuous to give Israel’s far right (which is in control of the country now) the benefit of the doubt on genocide. In fact it flies in the face of not only their own words, but their brutal actions – in “response” to October 7 but mainly as a founding tenet of their civilization dating back to pre-Nakba years. If they weren’t so openly racist to Arabs I might be able to see the situation as “simple” ethnic cleansing, but really that’s the same thing as genocide.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 22 2023 0:40 utc | 119

The time has come-it is long past- for a serious study of the question “Why did the Israelis become the Nazis?”
Posted by: bevin | Dec 21 2023 16:28 utc | 11
I am of the opinion you are outthinking the question; instead of prolix intellectual explanations how about simply employing Occam’s razor and accept a Freudian explanation:
The child (Jews under the Nazis) learn from the Father figure (Nazis killing abusing Jews) and when they become the Father (1948, Nakba) abuse their children (the Palestinians)
Posted by: canuck | Dec 21 2023 23:23 utc | 112
canuck | Dec 21 2023 23:23 utc | 112
If that explanation works for you adopt it.
It is nonsense, as you are almost certainly aware but if you want to wear a clown’s hat, bde my guest.
I’m not looking for a ‘prolix” intellectual explanation- you are being deliberately insulting by suggesting that I am.
These are serious questions those who use them as excuses to show off are like raucous drunks at a funeral service.
Posted by: bevin | Dec 21 2023 23:33 utc | 113
I asserted that there may be a simple answer to your question.
Then instead of refuting my potential answer you personally insult me with your awkward, “clown’s hat”, barb.
I ‘deliberately insulted you’ by supplying an answer to your question? Touchy?
Instead of supplying a concise short [Bevin is extremely long winded, he can’t help it editor] retort of my ‘answer'(which I now surmise you posed as a rhetorical question) you employed an Freudian ego defense mechanism, intellectualization” (1).
Which only clouds the discussion.
Kindly please use your obvious intellect to forward the discussion rather than to merely fortify your political beliefs.
1. In psychology, intellectualization is a defense mechanism by which reasoning is used to block confrontation with an unconscious conflict and its associated emotional stress – where thinking is used to avoid feeling. It involves emotionally removing one’s self from a stressful event.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 22 2023 1:06 utc | 120

Please remember some of the most powerful opposition to zionazis come from Jews themselves.
Posted by: suzan | Dec 21 2023 17:00 utc | 17
If only their opposition had the force of a fleas breath against a leaf we would still hear the laughing og ten thousand Palestinian children upon the wind …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 21 2023 17:08 utc | 19
Arch, that’s not fair. Suzan is correct. How about Norman Finkelstein, Gabor and his son Aaron- there are many Jews, the true observers of the Jewish faith, that are totally opposed to the Anglo/Zionists.
Remember the Zionists go nowhere without the City-thus Anglo/Zionists

Posted by: canuck | Dec 22 2023 1:16 utc | 121

I read this piece earlier today, and its interesting in that The Guardian can be counted to dutifully amplify the required narrative, but yet in this article they are highlighting the fact that Hamas is not as defeated as the Israelis would like the world to believe …

Israel is losing the war against Hamas – but Netanyahu and his government will never admit it
On 12 December, there was a skilful triple ambush staged by Hamas paramilitaries in a part of Gaza supposedly controlled by Israeli forces. An IDF unit was ambushed and took casualties. Further troops were sent to aid that unit, and they were then ambushed, as were reinforcements.
Ten IDF soldiers were reported killed and other seriously wounded, but it was their seniority that counted, including as it did a colonel and three majors from the elite Golani Brigade. That Hamas, supposedly decimated and with thousands of troops already killed, could mount such an operation anywhere in Gaza, let alone a district reportedly already under IDF control, should raise doubts about the idea that Israel is making substantial progress in the war.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/21/israel-losing-war-against-hamas-netanyahu-idf

Posted by: SattaMassaGana | Dec 22 2023 1:18 utc | 122

The Christian commandment thou shalt not kill is actually mistranslated from original Hebrew and should read “Thou shalt not Murder” which is an important distinction as Torah teachings says “If someone wants to strike you, strike first” and is used as justification for murder by the right wing Israelis. We see this in price tag attacks against Palestinians and the current justification for the mass collective punishment in Gaza.
Interestingly enough is that Hamas which literally translates to Islamic freedom movement (abbreviated to H.M.S in Arabic) was changed to Hamas by Israel and the definition of the word Hamas in Hebrew literally has a singular meaning. Violence. Ergo the Jewish commandment and subconsciously equating a freedom movement with violence collectively conditions Israelis to see Arabs as the enemy which helps the cause of ethnic cleansing the illegal state of Israel for Jewish only dominance.

Posted by: fingrinn | Dec 22 2023 1:33 utc | 123

Xymphora had a link to a December 18 Mint Press News article naming the Top 10 recipients of AIPAC political donations. Genocide Joe was #1 with a career total of $4,346,264 which seems quite cheap, per annum, considering the length of his political career.
Josh Gottheimer comes in at #9 with a total of $1,109,370 since 2017. One presumes that these stats are drawn from Official Records of declared donations and begs the question “Do Official Donations merely open a door to Unofficial Donations?”

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 22 2023 1:41 utc | 124

“Why did the Israelis become the Nazis?”
because no one stopped them, they saw no line they couldn’t cross.
and you can see how many in the congress are willing to stand up to them.
we have a duty to stop evil. if we don’t then it will keep growing.

Posted by: cafe_con_leche3 | Dec 22 2023 1:51 utc | 125

Jewish Voice for Peace in the US is bigger than a flee’s breath and they are mounting active dissent putting themselves on the line here in US.

Posted by: Lavieja | Dec 22 2023 1:55 utc | 126

19 Arch Bungle. Above response to Arch Bungle

Posted by: Lavieja | Dec 22 2023 1:59 utc | 127

Bevin @ 11:
“… The time has come-it is long past- for a serious study of the question “Why did the Israelis become the Nazis?”…”
A seemingly simple question, to which the answer (necessarily perhaps) is complicated.
You would probably need to know the history of the Jewish diaspora experience, in which many Jewish communities, finding themselves threatened by larger ethnic-majority communities, clung to governments for protection, irrespective of whether their overlords liked them or not, or of how those overlords had treated them in the past.
A good reference book in this respect is Benjamin Ginsberg’s “The Fatal Embrace: Jews and the State” which is available on Amazon.com, if you’re not troubled at the thought of enriching Jeff Bozo and his octopoid empire.
In the 19th century, European Jewish communities, increasingly enabled to participate in mainstream society as a result of governments coming more and more under the influence of the Enlightenment, began entering the middle class (and public bureaucracy and academia) in droves. They may have come under the influence not only of Enlightenment values but also some of the more negative aspects perhaps of the Enlightenment and what its values might have led to, coupled with the residue of past pre-Enlightenment beliefs (once religious, now secularised), coupled with whatever beliefs they selectively brought from their own cultures and histories.
That’s my answer in a nutshell, for the benefit of other MoA barflies wanting something succinct and not too long to read.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Dec 22 2023 2:00 utc | 128

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.” ― Joseph Goebbels
For instance: Strip naked, walk over a thousand dead, naked bodies, lie face down on a dead, naked body so I can shoot you in the back of the head. OK, you bet.
That’s the big lie the yews have told since 1945. Unbelievable.
With the disgusting spectacle in Palestine today that everybody is watching before their very eyes it is pretty clear why yews were driven out of one country after another country after another country after another country after another country …

Posted by: PBR Street Gang | Dec 22 2023 2:00 utc | 129

Thanks!
Actually my much longer and considered post regarding the very questionable retooling of a certain word by a certain blonde lady never saw the light of day here.
Posted by: Jane | Dec 21 2023 22:41 utc | 109
Because you said it better than I could, it should be me saying thanks, Jane – yes, for this post:
“Maybe diplomats understand that MZ is redefining antisemitism . . .
This is such a loaded word, and an intrinsically mendacious one, one that was created to gaslight, deflect, and confuse—it is IMO a weak tactic.
IMO basing her supposed condemnation of US and Is actions on this and her supposed redefinition of it is, well, lame. And, BTW, did the Palestinians ask to be officially grouped by MZ with the Jews as “semites” who are all suffering equally? Given this word’s propaganda history and its use against against them and all non-Jews and, latterly, anyone who defends the Palestinians, perhaps they would rather prefer to be called PALESTINIANS? MZ just created a lot of confusion and dodged the real issue.
Plus, she equated Israeli suffering and Palestinian suffering.
That is incorrect, and it is wrong.
Plus, she implies that the Israelis are helplessly suffering—whereas the truth is that the Zionists are the agents of ALL of the suffering in Palestine, for well over 75 years. Most of the most rabid Zionists were Russians such as Jabotinsky and Trumpeldor. They chose to go to Palestine and harass innocent Palestinians instead of either (1) staying in Russia/the Soviet Union to help their own country or (2) going to Europe to wage guerrilla cp,bat against the Nazis if that is what they wanted to do and actually help the European Jews.
Her comments sound like pilpul. She is obviously trying to avoid “offending” Jewish Russians. IMO it is high time that all Jews were put on notice the same as the Germans: Which side are (were) you on? Are (were) you a “good Jew” or a “genocidal Jew”?
If you as a Jewish Russian are pissed off or righteously offended, tough s— for you.
Go to Israel to defend the Zionists and help them with their genocide.
Here is a plane ticket and a pair of boots. So long.
I say the same for Jewish Americans.”
Posted by: Jane | Dec 20 2023 21:28 utc | 87

Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Dec 22 2023 2:10 utc | 130

How could people lie to themselves so much as to create new realities? Empire-of-lies indeed.
Michael Rubin of AEI, empire’s propagandist, Iranophobe, has a new op-ed.
I just couldn’t get passed this line — which I highlighted below. I’m including the entire paragraph, so as, not to be accused of taking it out of context.

While the October 7 terror attack was a blow against Israel, the cost to Hamas has been extreme. For Iran, however, the price of instigating the war may be worth it in many ways. The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps has never hesitated to wage war against Israel to the last Palestinian. Israel does more to safeguard Palestinian lives than Iran ever has. For Tehran, Palestinian lives are cheap. In this case, however, the Revolutionary Guards may believe activating the Houthis is worth any cost simply because of its commercial interests.

See, it was Iran that “instigated” this war, not 75 years of oppression, and land theft.
And this; only I, Michael R. know best, so I’m advising you Jordan, beware.

If the current chaos spreads to make seaborne shipment through the Red Sea untenable, the Revolutionary Guard would consider that a win worthy of its investment in the Houthis. If they can next block any land corridor by sponsoring chaos in Jordan and/or the West Bank, from Tehran’s perspective, that is even better. (Jordan, beware). [Emphasis mine]

Not worth clicking on the link. It is here for reference.
https://www.aei.org/op-eds/how-the-houthi-attacks-could-net-iran-billions-of-dollars/

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Dec 22 2023 2:34 utc | 131

I can’t lay my head on my pillow at night without my heart breaking for the Palestinians who have nothing like such comfort. I can’t reach for a tissue to blow my nose without wondering how the Mothers of Palestine help their toddlers clear their noses. I can’t hear the furnace click on without weeping for the Palestinians freezing in the cold. I can’t look at the toy the grandkids left behind without breaking down in utter sadness for the innocent kids of Palestine whose toys are long gone, buried with who knows how many siblings under the rubble. I can’t eat a meal without aching to send the plate of food to Palestine. I can’t use the toilet without wondering how awful it is to have to defecate in the open because there simply is nowhere else available anymore – and nowhere private. I can’t take my morning meds without a gut punch of grief for the many dying in Palestine for lack of medicine. I can’t put on clean underwear without wondering what it’s like to have only the clothes on your back now – and where is water to wash anything?
I could go on and on and on and on. Maybe others will say what they think of the take-for-granted daily moments that the psycho jews of “israel” have 100% deprived the Palestinians of?
I feel a rising fury every time somebody expresses “sympathy for the good jews” or scolds us to remember “oh they aint all bad”.
PALESTINIANS are the ones with their lives on the line, dammit!!!!!!

Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Dec 22 2023 2:34 utc | 132

In the 19th century, European Jewish communities, increasingly enabled to participate in mainstream society as a result of governments coming more and more under the influence of the Enlightenment, began entering the middle class (and public bureaucracy and academia) in droves. ****They may have come under the influence not only of Enlightenment values but also some of the more negative aspects perhaps of the Enlightenment and what its values might have led to, coupled with the residue of past pre-Enlightenment beliefs (once religious, now secularised), coupled with whatever beliefs they selectively brought from their own cultures and histories.****
That’s my answer in a nutshell, for the benefit of other MoA barflies wanting something succinct and not too long to read.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Dec 22 2023 2:00 utc | 130
+++++++++++++
In a nutshell I don’t think that is a very good answer.
The bits within asterisks are where the answer stops making sense.
Jewish Nazism is intimately connected to the idea of Zionism.
Assimilated Western European Jews had very little interest in Zionism. Despite their awareness of persistent negative feelings about Jews, they had an excellent, modern quality of life and were actually sitting pretty. I believe that in Germany up to 50% of Jewish marriage partners had Goyim spouses (hence all the Mischlinge in Germany and surely also France).
There were other jews who didn’t like this assimilation at all. Especially a lot of rebs in Eastern European shtetls.
Assimilated Jews didn’t want to know about the increasing numbers of Eastern shtetl Jews arriving in Western Europe, specifically Germany, who were creating a whole new round of anti-Jewish reactions around them.
It was this group, and their rebs, that wanted to keep the Jews separate (that was the source of rebs’ power over other Jews) and carried the seed of aggressive, violent Zionism—what one could call Jewish Nazism. That went to Palestine with the idea not just of starting agricultural settlements etc. but of actually replacing all the Palestinians with themselves and driving the natives out and eradicating any signs that they had ever been there.
It is also members of this group whose goals aligned with those of the German Nazis and made deals with them—specifically the Haavara Agreement, among other deals—to ensure that Jews (especially Germany Jews) persecuted by the Nazis ended up in Palestine. The political Zionists preferred German Jews to others—especially to the Jews of SW Asia and Africa. This intra-Jewish racism is still very evident in Israel today.
They were the mirror image of the German Nazis, as both groups were racist and both groups had as their primary focus Lebensraum, to be obtained via displacing indigenous people, whom they considered inferior, in the territory they meant to get for themselves. The two groups were also mirror images of each other in that they would willingly sacrifice one group of their own people to achieve their Aryan/Zionist visions that involved their using another group of their own people.
That is IMO where “Jewish Nazism” came from originally. (Not counting a whole nother chapter, which is how Jewish Nazism also found a home in the USA.)

Posted by: Jane | Dec 22 2023 2:38 utc | 133

I must have missed all those billboards all across the usa that jewish voice for peace has been putting up for the last 30 years informing citizens that billionaire zionist jews own all the media and your government and they’re brainwashing you.

Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Dec 22 2023 2:45 utc | 134

Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Dec 22 2023 2:10 utc | 132
============
Actually I posted another comment after that one, in response to Juliana, who insisted that I was wrong.
I pointed out why Juliana was wrong, and some more!
I also ended that comment by noting that generally I am an admirer of Maria Zakharova, but not in this case.
That whole comment was chucked.
I also offered Putin some advice—what I think Russia has to do to come to terms with its own history and responsibility for the catastrophe in Palestine. I won’t repeat it here as it might get THIS comment chucked.

Posted by: Jane | Dec 22 2023 2:46 utc | 135

DuchessAndBob
It is hard to enjoy anything without the juxtaposition.
This is causing the entire world to grieve.
The effects of this horror will permate humanity with untold repercussions
the only salve is Justice

Posted by: ld | Dec 22 2023 2:49 utc | 136

I can no longer write on this phone. I cannot see and my fingers are too fat
Good Nite to all

Posted by: ld | Dec 22 2023 2:51 utc | 137

asad abukhalil أسعد أبو خليل
@asadabukhalil
·
6h
Western NGOs should be treated like Western governments treat Arab NGOs in their countries. Germany closed down an Arab feminist group yesterday. 170 German police people went after this organization accusing it of affiliation with a largely defunct Palestinian leftist group.
While West NGOs roam around the Arab world freely interfering in the minute affairs of Arab countries and spreading their Zionist and racist agenda, Germany yesterday went after an Arab feminist NGO in Germany. And you dare preach freedom of speech to us?
https://twitter.com/asadabukhalil/status/1737928688929505435

Posted by: Menz | Dec 22 2023 2:55 utc | 138

Arya – آریا 🇮🇷
@AryJeay
·
8h
🇾🇪 Muhammad Ali Al-Houthi, a senior member of AnsarAllah political bureau, in an interview with Al-Mayadeen:
“Any country that opens its airspace for an attack on Yemen will face a response as well.”
https://twitter.com/AryJeay/status/1737896595620831711

Posted by: Menz | Dec 22 2023 2:59 utc | 139

Posted by: Jane | Dec 22 2023 2:38 utc | 135
The assimilation of regular Jews in Europe pre-1932 was clearly difficult but the families that really wanted a low-key stable life, were willing to make a go of it. However in 1933 when New York Zionists put out a decree stating that Jews worldwide must declare war on Germany and with it, sanctioning government and boycotting all products immediately. This caused a serious concern for all Jews within Germany as they couldn’t make a living and support their families properly. You can imagine the anger and fury emanating from Bonn and Berlin and all points in between because of this decree. Many “comfortable” assimilated Jewish families had to leave their adopted country because they knew there would be a backlash to the Jewish “War” on Germany.
I saw a picture of a document that had a list of European countries that killed a lot of Jews during the war. This list was created by the International Red Cross. Poland was actually at the top of the list with roughly 2.1 million Jews killed within their borders and Germany was 3rd or 4th with “only” 267,600 Jews killed within their borders as estimated by the Red Cross.

Posted by: bisfugged | Dec 22 2023 3:15 utc | 140

I would say to Putin that Russia is one of the great nations (greatest literature imo, music in European culture) that was emanating knew to undertake it’s wise pivot to the East and South – land of the future — and I a nobody for one am grateful for Russia’s promoting (with other countries) the instrument to remove the hegemon’s foot off the neck of the RoW (not the West in foreseeable future)…BUT .. Unfortunately the ME has erupted again this time with Israel actually going farther than since 1948 and committing unremitting genocide on the Palestinians before the BRICS had time to effect much the looked-for change in geopolitical relations and while, unfortunately, the hegemon’s crime is so visible heinous — that you like the Arab and Muslim countries also, one of which has taken the lead, Yemen, must also put this issue on the FRONT of the table and DO SOMETHING more and other than say what you are doing. Mr.Putin, sir, you are a master lawyer, you can work with UN Jurists and Humans Rights Watch, etc. (the committees that are convening), lawyers on the Genocide Convention, to create the legal documentation to envoke the Genocide charge to Israel that the UN can then act upon. The Palestinians are not to be expendable.

Posted by: Lavieja | Dec 22 2023 3:17 utc | 141

Jonathon . Malaysia amongst Indonesia and other nations doesn’t recognise Israel as a state. It bans visa for Israelis, has had mossad commit assassinations on its territory and its old president has spoken out against apartheid and Zionist regime much to the aghast of fawning westerners. So to wanting to have no part of Israel’s economy to help commit genocide isn’t really much of a chinese issue than an actual omestic Islamic principle. China seems to be the one that’s OK doing business with everybody. As far as Singapore goes. It’s the old British bankers city , not so much of cargo as its islands made navigating more tricky. Anyway look up “Mahathir Mohamad and antisemetic” in a search to see pages of articles about his public views. He recently resigned after much pressure internationally and he was getting well past his prime age wise

Posted by: Hankster | Dec 22 2023 3:20 utc | 142

143 Lavieja And of course Russia’s great and wonderful history…

Posted by: Lavieja | Dec 22 2023 3:20 utc | 143

bisfugges 142,
“This caused a serious concern for all Jews within Germany as they couldn’t make a living and support their families properly.”
I would be very interested to see some documentation of how many Jewish German families left Germany because of this declaration.
Can you provide a source for this statement?
It is far more likely and also easy to document that assimilated Jewish Germans started to think about getting out of Germany because of Hitler’s Machtergreifung in March 1933 and the persecution of both Jews and political dissidents that immediately followed. However, a great many of them didn’t want to go and couldn’t believe that they could be “unassimilated” with Hitler’s accession to power. It became more and more difficult to get out of Germany as the 1930s wore on, and as Nazi policies and priorities kept changing.
Your figures re how many Jews were killed in Germany vs. Poland are confused on two issues: the number of Jews in Germany vs. Poland, and the period of the Third Reich and the war.
In 1933 the total number of Jews in Europe was ca. 9.5 million.
In Germany there were only ca. 500,000; of these only ca. 400,000 were actually citizens.
In Poland there were about 5.5 million.
Furthermore, the effort to rid Germany of Jews basically took place in the period from 1933 to 1939. It consisted mainly of trying to get Jewish Germans to leave Germany voluntarily via a carrot and stick approach. It was a form of ethnic cleansing.
The effort to rid Poland and the rest of Eastern Europe and also occupied Western Europe (France, Netherlands, Greece, Yugoslavia, Hungary, etc.) of its Jewish populations took place after the war began, in Sept. 1939, with the invasion of Poland. This was the beginning of the true Jewish genocide. So IMO your comparisons are apples to oranges. These two periods of the Third Reich were very different and also within each period were sequences of specific events that characterized different years and even months.
The basic difference—the change-up to a new MO, so to speak, once the war began and Germany and the Nazi Party were under increasing stresses—is made very clear in bulleted points in the Wannsee Protocol, in early 1942.

Posted by: Jane | Dec 22 2023 3:52 utc | 144

Posted by: abierno | Dec 21 2023 21:59 utc | 94
Well summarized, thank you.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 4:03 utc | 145

In response to

Remember the Zionists go nowhere without the City-thus Anglo/Zionists
Posted by: canuck | Dec 22 2023 1:16 utc | 123

I agree and continue to call out the God Of Mammon cult instead of positing that if the Zionists or Nazis were gone, all would be good……monotheism is just another proxy war for the global financial elite.
bevin is sensitive to folks positing that the City of London Corp may be a more significant center of the God Of Mammon cult than the US Fed owners. That said, most of the history he provides is insightful.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 22 2023 4:27 utc | 146

How about 117 BC when Jews killed 240,000 Cypriots and wre subsequently banned from the island?
Posted by: canuck | Dec 21 2023 21:14 utc | 89
Ah, but back then the Jews were not distinguishable as Nazi-like, merely another bunch of genocidal maniacs in an era when such insanity was common.
Although, you see the repeating pattern of history here: in the Roman era the seemed to aspire to match the level of psychopathy practiced by the Romans themselves. There is some parallel with modern Zionists and Nazism.
Then again these are not the same people. The Jews of Rome were Semitic. The Jews of today are simulacra of simulacra of a tale about a long extinct people.
At some point the ideology of those ancient Jewish Nazis must have jumped the extinction of it’s Hebrew host and embedded itself in the flesh of a new people.
One could argue if they draw their ideological line to the butchers of Cyprus, to the desolation of amalek alone or wether the ideology was born of a miscegenation with established European ideologies, taking root within the fertile colonial and imperial heart of Europe itself.
There’s a case for that line of thinking: Jews outside of Europe (and the Russian Empire) developed no such genocidal and supremacist notions in so systematic a way until mobilized by the European Jews.
Simulacra of simulacra.
Did they really become “Nazis”?
Remove the mask:
Perhaps they became the precursors of the Nazis:
Plain old European Imperialists.
What of cause and effect?
Did they merely absorb the colonial ideologies of the Europeans, or were they an essential part of it’s creation …?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 4:31 utc | 147

Which Holocaust ?
60 million Chinese by Tojo – Mao

30 million Russians by Bolsheviks

25 million Russians by Fascists
10 million Congolese by Belgians – Leopold II

9 million Koreans by the Pentagon – MacArthur
9 million Chinese by the English – Sassoons
8 million Iranians by the English – Churchill

6 million Southeast Asians by the Pentagon-Kissinger

5 million Bengalis by the English – Churchill
4 million Philippinos by the Americans
3 million Irish by the English
3 million Indonesians by CIA – AntiCommunists

Posted by: Exile | Dec 22 2023 4:34 utc | 148

Posted by: Jane | Dec 22 2023 2:38 utc | 135
Very insightful, thank you.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 4:44 utc | 149

Re: Land Route
1 mid-sized container ship carries 2,000 containers.

Posted by: Exile | Dec 22 2023 4:45 utc | 150

ZH has a posting up with the title telling the story of Nikkii Haley’s brain
Nikki Haley Tries To Tie Putin To Israel Attackers, Says Gazans Should Be Resettled In ‘Pro-Hamas Countries’
the quotes

She said these countries, given their well-known ‘support’ to the terror group, should take in all Palestinians fleeing the war in Gaza. During the discussion Haley was asked where the war refugees in Gaza should go. She responded: “They should be going to the Rafah gate and [have] Egypt take them.” That’s when she added the controversial statement, “But I’ve always said that what you should have is that they should go to pro-Hamas countries — Qatar, Iran, Turkey… send them there… Those are pro-Hamas countries.

she also had some interesting (ahem) things to say about an alleged Putin-Hamas connection at a recent campaign rally…
“Hamas invaded Israel on October 7th, October 7th is Putin’s birthday,” Haley told a crowd of supporters.

The potential puppet is practicing their lines

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 22 2023 4:52 utc | 151

Poor Hayley makes George bush seem a Mensa club member. The look of dumbfounded from her audience as they try to make sense of her words was funny. They willingly went there and still were confused

Posted by: Hankster | Dec 22 2023 5:01 utc | 152

Posted by: Hankster | Dec 22 2023 3:20 utc | 144
I agree and would like to add that the tensions between the Chinese-dominated Singapore (now about 74%) and the Malay-dominated Malaysia led to the separation of Singapore from Malaysia in the 1960’s. While the Brits did not mind the arrangement one bit they may not have been the driving force that actually made it happen. The reason a Hong Kong -based company might take part in a boycott probably has to do with the fact that it is easier to do business if one cozies up to the central government. Even the Japanese-based Nikkei Asia acknowledges that Chinese companies generally appreciate the Communist Party for the stability it brings no matter how crazy that sounds at some ideological level. Conversely the Chinese government cannot do much if the private sector is not on board. It is an interesting relationship. Something similar may be the case in Malaysia as regards the boycott against Israel: the public and the private sector need each other.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 5:03 utc | 153

Jane @1920
Interesting sidenote on Baghdad Jews: The original founder of the Saudi dynasty was a Jewish merchant from Baghdad, who much like the Donmei in Turkey, converted to Islam and allied himself with the Islamic fanaticist Wahabis and with their assistance, managed to conquer most of the Arabian Peninsula in the first third of the 20th Century.
Could it be said that the Saudi rulers are Cryptos? Wondering whether anyone has researched that.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 22 2023 5:07 utc | 154

Which begs the question ; why would the Arabs stop attacking the IDF if they believe they are prevailing ?
Posted by: Exile | Dec 21 2023 20:40 utc | 82
Moreover, even if they believe they are prevailing, they cannot stop attacking the IDF if they wish to prevent the genocide of Palestinians in Gaza:
– The civilian infrastructure of Gaza has been destroyed to the extent that an emergency stabilization will have to take place just to prevent mass deaths from the knock-on effects.
– This will require Izzraeli control of Gaza’s entrances, facilities, supplies and approaches to be removed and placed within the hands of a responsible humanitarian actor (UNRWA is good enough).
– A buffer zone, not within the current confines of Gaza but encompassing the settler belt attacked by the Hamas on 7 October will have to be established.
The last point requires Izzrael to essentially concede defeat in terms of land possession. It’s not likely that will happen and yet it is critical.
The circle I’ve described above cannot be squared.
Yet, unless it is, the Genocide of Gazans will continue apace long after the Izzraeli bombs stop falling.

The only solution:

Continued strikes against the Izzraeli occupation, long after a nominal ‘ceasefire’, until all the conditions required to rehabilitate Gaza are achieved … Which may actually require the full establishment of a Palestinian State (even if initially along minimal borders like 1967), not by negotiation but under threat of violence.
Aside:

– A Palestinian state cannot be established by peaceful negotiation, since no peaceful negotiation will result in a Palestinian state with it’s own defensive Army. The only outcome of peaceful negotiation can be a completely neutered and passive entity little different from the current West Bank.
– Therefore, for a new Palestinian state to be achieved with defensive capabilities at inception it must be established upon formation with an army and, pragmatically, through that army.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 5:22 utc | 155

Posted by: Exile | Dec 22 2023 4:34 utc | 150
More bullshit and selectively presented. The USA/CIA has killed upwards of 30M people since the late days of WWII, worldwide. What are the sources for 30M people at the hands of the Bolsheviks (among other right wing propaganda you’re pushing)?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 22 2023 5:37 utc | 156

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 22 2023 5:07 utc | 156
I don’t think Saudis were descended from Baghdadi Jews; rather unlikely, I would say. They were tribesmen from eastern Arabia. Sounds like an invented suggestion for some aim or other.

Mani’ ibn Rabi’a al-Muraydi (Arabic: مانع بن ربيعة المريدي; 24 October 1400 – 14 August 1463) is the oldest recorded ancestor of the House of Saud, which currently rules in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.[1][2]
He was a member of the Mrudah clan.[3] The Mrudah are believed to be descended from the Banu Hanifa branch of the larger Rabi’ah tribal confederation

wiki sv House of Saud

Posted by: laguerre | Dec 22 2023 5:41 utc | 157

Posted by: PBR Street Gang | Dec 22 2023 2:00 utc | 131
As blatantly “anti-Semitic” as your comment comes off, it ain’t exactly wrong. Does Israel, with a 5-decade practice of equating anti-semitism with critiques of the country benefit from this genocide they’re committing? Would it be different if “goys” or white Christian “gentiles” were kept in the prisons of Gaza and the West Bank? One could be forgiven for answering that question with a “NO” considering how they have treated the US and UK since both countries helped their illegal founding in the 40s.
This is a massive PR loss for the Zionists and Israelis alike. And the charge of anti-Semitism has been reduced to its rightful place as a meaningless Orwellian smear tactic.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 22 2023 5:43 utc | 158

53 Trubind. Thank you for this outline of what’s in store to charge Israel with war crimes and Russia’s role in this. Your post moots my later- in- the -thread rant which I would have withheld has I read your post. I saw the Huff article but not Russia’s role in the actions to convene the committee. I am always playing catch up on the moa thread.

Posted by: Lavieja | Dec 22 2023 5:46 utc | 159

17, 38 Susan. Agree with your position. Recently Thousands of mostly Jews attended action in Times Square in NYC organized by Jewish Voice for Peace a major actor in Palestine resistance for years in US.

Posted by: Lavieja | Dec 22 2023 5:54 utc | 160

@ pq | Dec 21 2023 22:31 utc | 107
Jewish trucking app test run etc and the over-hyped “news” (sic) report for the gullible and lazy … low life’s never miss an opportunity to make a shekel.
Good work, much appreciated. More like this is needed.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 22 2023 6:03 utc | 161

Posted by: g | Dec 22 2023 5:52 utc | 162
Give us the civilian clobber list. It’s gotta be approaching 30,000 now. Scumbag.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 22 2023 6:14 utc | 162

IDF Clobber list;
War Summary, Day Seventy Seven
129 [settler colonists] held captive in Gaza.
110 hostages [settler colonists] freed.
11 hostage [settler colonists] bodies rescued.
20 hostages [settler colonists] confirmed murdered in Gaza.
1,300+ [settler colonists] Israelis neutralized.
137 fallen [settler colonist daleks] since entering Gaza.
7,800 [settler colonists] injured.
11,580 rockets fired at the zionist occupation.
187,533 [Zionist settler colonists] displaced from their homes.
Posted by: g | Dec 22 2023 5:52 utc | 162
[edited for accuracy]
Well done and praise to the Palestinian resistance.
However, more must be done, perhaps an order more.
Jewish Zionist atrocity list:

– Palestinian Red Crescent Says Unable to Reach the Wounded in Gaza
– ‘Barely a Drop’: UN Warns Water Shortages a Deadly Risk for Gaza Children
– Israel Holding Bodies of 17 Dead Palestinian Detainees: NGO
– ‘I Don’t Care About Gaza, I Want To See Dead Bodies of Terrorists’: Israeli Politician
– World Health Organization Describes Dire Scene at Al-Ahli Hospital in Northern Gaza
– Americans Struggle to Save Relatives in Gaza Stalked by Violence, Hunger
– Kill a Detained Hamas Member Each Day Israeli Hostages Are Held, Ben-Gvir Says
– Israeli Forces Kill Palestinian Man Near Hebron
– Palestinian Activist Munther Amira Tied Up, Beaten, and Arrested by Israeli Forces in Aida Refugee Camp
– Injured Israeli Soldiers Refuse to Meet With Netanyahu
– 19 Guards Suspected of Assaulting Security Prisoner Who Died in Israeli Prison
– Gaza’s Children Not Consuming 90% of Recommended Water Use Amid Unsanitary Conditions, Disease Fears
– UN Told of Israeli Army Summary Killings, Attack on Baby
– Al Araby TV Gaza Reporter Injured by Israeli Strike Live on Air
– Why Is Israel’s Military Killing So Many of Its Own?
– Israeli Attack Kills Palestinian Border Crossing Chief: Gaza Officials
– UK Healthcare Workers ‘Blockade’ Palantir Office Over Support for Israel
– UK Primary School Threatened Counter-Terrorism Program Referrals Over Palestine Symbols
– Meta (Facebook/Instagram) ‘Stifling’ Pro-Palestine Voices on Social Media, Rights Group Says
– Gaza Children Dizzy From Hunger as War Impedes Food Deliveries
– Israel’s Military Targeting Gaza Hospital Chiefs, Doctors

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 6:15 utc | 163

Actually, “this” will never be over, because it is so big, and it is going to get bigger.
and
Above all, the fact that it has been abetted and sponsored by all the leading lights of the so-called “West” and its ruling class completely undermines any credibility those people and the things they espouse have in the world.
@ Cabe | Dec 21 2023 22:27 utc | 104

While I agree it’s big, I not yet convinced this all won’t be brushed under the carpet and memory holed again. I’m far from convinced russia and china will actually DO anything substantial, now to stop the violence, or to enforce humanitarian aid or to outright condemn Israel and call for an end to the occupation as a crime against humanity. They are far from reliable in supporting the “cause” here. Let alone actually re-start any negotiations between Palestinians and Israel re 2 state solutions — all this is fantasy stuff in my view – patently unachievable in the real world.
No one is currently undermining the western ruling classes … or any other ruling classes … nothing has changed, Israel has the support of everyone who used to support them and have enabled it’s atrocities for decades. Nothing has changed yet. What the Houthis, Hezbollah, Syria and iran can say or do is utterly irrelevant because it makes no difference. South Africa is trying for a Genocide case against Israel …. well even if they was accepted, and investigated, and court case held still nothing would change! Jordan and Egypt are useless, as are the African arabs and the Gulf region. Malaya is a flea on an elephant. Votes in the UN GA are weak as dish water.
Anything major in the UNSC will be vetoed by US, UK and France – period! Russia and China are powerless to do anything and too afraid as well to take on Israel.
This here is the norm – on Dec 13 and a total condemnation of the Terrorist org Hamas …. by Canada, NZ and Australia in the west. This is what most people in the west and europe the OECD nations actually believe and support…. it too is weak as
https://www.pm.gov.au/media/joint-statement-prime-ministers-australia-canada-and-new-zealand
Israel can and will keep doing whatever it wants with non-stop US empire support all the way. Who is going to stop them? No one is.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 22 2023 6:28 utc | 164

Arya – آریا 🇮🇷
@AryJeay
🛑UPDATE: Nournews published the name, adress, phone number information about one of the israeli pilots, who bombed hospitals in Gaza, by the name of “Guy Alon,” who resides in the Karakur neighborhood in Haifa.
Guy has informed his friends through Telegram & WhatsApp that, out of fear for his life, he is ending his activities on social networks.
https://twitter.com/AryJeay/status/1737794815427817549

Posted by: Menz | Dec 22 2023 6:35 utc | 165

Even the Finacial Times recognizes today that the US is screwed because of the genocide in Gaza. I am paraphrasing. Actually the headline reads “US looks feckless”.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 6:45 utc | 166

https://t.me/ResistanceTrench/22245
Video of the Golani brigade , elite IDF troops. They have been withdrawn after heavy losses from gaza. Not sure where this was first published. It looks like they were killed and go pro taken from them, IDF wouldn’t release that footage,

Posted by: Hankster | Dec 22 2023 6:55 utc | 167

The real reason.
https://i.imgur.com/wIixBUZ.jpg

Posted by: Surferket | Dec 22 2023 7:02 utc | 168

Posted by: Hankster | Dec 22 2023 6:55 utc | 171
Article in Al Manar on the same:
“On December 12, Resistance fighters launched a surprise attack on the Golani troops, resulting in the deaths of seven soldiers, including two high-ranking officers. Among the fallen were Lieutenant Colonel Tomer Grinberg, the respected commander of the 13th Battalion, and Colonel Izhak Ben Basat, the esteemed leader of the Golani Brigade chief’s forward command team. Also lost in the ambush was Major Roei Meldasi, a company commander who had fought alongside his comrades.”
https://english.almanar.com.lb/2006193

Posted by: Menz | Dec 22 2023 7:04 utc | 169

While “Israel” continues to massacre civilians unpunished, US State Department officials are discreetly attempting to impede efforts to increase global pressure on the occupation.
State Department documents obtained by HuffPost indicate how US diplomats are finalizing a démarche to Switzerland that Washington hopes will cancel the preparations for an event to discuss Israeli violations of the Geneva Conventions in Palestine.
Formal rulings that “Israel” breached the treaties in its US-backed war in Gaza would be a severe worldwide condemnation of both parties and would support the accusations of human rights groups that have amassed evidence that stands as proof of such violations.
Switzerland, which has always been neutral, decides when meetings of the parties concerned to discuss compliance take place.
Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and the International Commission of Jurists all endorse the urgent meeting. The Biden administration, however, plans on lobbying Swiss counterparts to stop the conference.
https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/us-pressuring-switzerland-to-ignore-israeli-war-crimes
My opinion remains, until evidence of significant geopolitical changes are overt, even if the above review was successful and Israel deemed guilty of serious war crimes / breaches of the Geneva Conventions still nothing would happen to bring Israel or the US to heel.
Nothing would change for the Palestinians … no advantages for Hamas or Hezbollah either, and Fatah and the PA would still be totally useless and powerless, and still no one would gain a single “human right” or any justice at all.
Such a judicial outcome would make news, many words would be spoken, and then it too would all be forgotten withe Palestinians in Gaza still caged like wild dogs and starved and being bombed, and the west bank Palestinians being murdered everyday by psychopathic settlers.
Overwhelming military force against Israel is the only think that will make a positive difference and stop these war crimes and genocide and end the occupation. Israel must be defeated and the regime brought to an end – with a new Palestinian State created in it’s stead.
There is no two state solution. And there was the possibility of one.
Nothing short of the above defeat of Israel will solve anything. The state of Israel was always illegitimate and a crime against humanity. It must be brought to an end.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 22 2023 7:09 utc | 170

No doubt the blob will get a lot of mileage out of this
Videos of a pro-Palestinian demonstration at Toronto’s Eaton Centre on Sunday have gone viral after images emerged of a masked protester telling someone in the presence of Toronto police officers: “I’ll put you six feet deep.”
National Post:
The words are heard early in the video, which was widely shared on social media. A protester is seen pointing toward police officers who are in the mall, and saying: “I’ll put him on the ground.” He adds: “You come near I’ll put you lay down on the floor (sic) … I’ll put you six feet deep.” The camera then swings to take in the police, who look at one another as the man moves on.
https://nationalpost.com/news/ill-put-you-six-feet-deep-masked-pro-palestinian-protester-threatens-toronto-police-officer#:~:text=A%20protester%20is%20seen%20pointing,as%20the%20man%20moves%20on.
this is the Sun version (the Sun is our even more zionist propaganda outlet)
WARMINGTON: This isn’t Gaza. It’s unacceptable to threaten to kill Jews or shoppers
Then they protested loudly in front of children visiting with a mall Santa Claus.
Now, a video shows, protesters are using words taken as death threats in front of Toronto Police officers.
The more the system allows haters to get away with it, the more hate they bring. But this is a whole new level of insanity.
https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-this-isnt-gaza-its-toronto-where-it-is-unacceptable-to-threaten-to-kill-police

Posted by: ld | Dec 22 2023 7:10 utc | 171

There is no two state solution. And there never was the possibility of one.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 22 2023 7:13 utc | 172

Israel can and will keep doing whatever it wants with non-stop US empire support all the way. Who is going to stop them? No one is.
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 22 2023 6:28 utc | 167
Balance this against the empirical reality we see before us:
None of this comes free.
They too bleed and burn as they cause innocents to bleed and burn.
In fact, they bleed now harder than they’ve ever bled before.
Their rich and powerful friends have not really been able to stem the bleeding.
See, even the Houthi leader has said that even if the entire world were brought against them it would not stop the Houthi from making the Zionists bleed.
So, perhaps justice has not been fully served but Izzrael’s actions have been far from pain free, far from risk free and far from free of future consequence …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 7:22 utc | 173

Contrast this report in MSM:
The human rights group Amnesty International on Thursday accused the Myanmar military of indiscriminate killings, detaining civilians, and using air-dropped cluster munitions in response to an insurgency in the northeast and west, and demanded an investigation into war crimes.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 7:27 utc | 174

In the same publication (The Globe and Mail in Canada), is this going to be a turning point? Is the US really on board?
“UN Security Council diplomats delayed until Friday a vote on a resolution to increase humanitarian aid into Gaza and another round of talks took place in Egypt to try to get warring Israel and Hamas to agree on a new truce so hostages can be released.
The UN vote was delayed despite the United States saying it can now support an amended proposal that would demand that Israel and Hamas allow the use of “all available routes” for humanitarian deliveries.”

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 7:29 utc | 175

And this is how the Harvard president is now being crucified after she was spared after the hearing on antisemitism on campuses:
“Harvard University’s president was planning to submit three corrections to her 1997 dissertation after a committee investigating plagiarism allegations against her found that she had made citation errors, a university spokesperson said.
Claudine Gay, who was inaugurated as Harvard’s president in September, has already submitted corrections to two published articles in recent weeks that were the focus of a review by the Harvard Corporation, the university’s governing board.”

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 7:32 utc | 176

@ Menz | Dec 22 2023 6:35 utc | 168
If Guy had a soul he’d be ending his activities in the IDF instead!
~90% of Israelis have no soul, no conscience, no moral compass.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 22 2023 7:33 utc | 177

fingrinn 125
Yes the semitic languages nouns have 3 consonant letter foundations and different meanings can be drawn from that base.
Presumably the founders of Hamas understood the Hebrew significance of the word being Arabs. Same rules for both languages.
Since Ishmaeel and Ishaak are brothers, this has a family feud flavour. US non-semires don’t necessarily understand the rules of the family, and if other nations like Russia were to intervene in a family feud, both sides would pile onto Russia’s case.
With families you don’t even know the family rules, and if you did, you’d probably tell them both to get lost.
My sister, in a religious discussion, said my prophet AS was a paedophile, which has slightlly different connotations in post feminist Western politics than in medieval , tribal, family honour.
Nice try, sis, to wind me up, mostly succeeded in fact. Christmas is the season for it.
Maybe somebody in the Semitic culture could tell the Pallestinians that the fact that children of Israel want to fight the children of Ishmael is a sign of their great family love and respect.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 22 2023 8:38 utc | 178

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 22 2023 7:33 utc | 181
With hearts of stone, it isn’t possible they would have a souls.

Posted by: Menz | Dec 22 2023 8:44 utc | 179

psychic numbing .. leads to compassion collapse….eg in this genocide situation ….Isr. very deliberately using their over targetting bombing shelling housing and hospitals to erase culture and as a people.. taking prioners ..dehumanising .fear…vengefulness… “every palestinian is hamas approach”.
Sadly no UN progress….
IDf and Isr ever more intense and extreme….despite more calls for war crimes investigations… is their still possible to be a tipping point when axis of resistance may step in or does it lose credibility???

Posted by: Jo | Dec 22 2023 8:51 utc | 180

The Israelis have no shame, they lie at a drop of a hat to continue killing innocent Palestinian civilians, especially women and children.
Scandal-stained Israeli ‘rescue’ group fuels October 7 fabrications
During an October 31 Senate hearing on Israel’s war in Gaza, Secretary of State Antony Blinken offered his rationale for rejecting a ceasefire. Summoning as much emotion as a dour Democratic Party operative could muster, Blinken conjured up a gruesome scene intended to illustrate the savagery of Hamas, and the impossibility of negotiations with such an organization: “A young boy and girl, 6 and 8 years old, and their parents around the breakfast table,” Blinken intoned. “The father’s eye gouged out in front of his kids. The mother’s breast cut off, the girl’s foot amputated, the boy’s fingers cut off before they were executed.”
The Secretary of State concluded, “That is what this [Israeli] society is dealing with.”

https://thegrayzone.com/2023/12/06/scandal-israeli-october-7-fabrications/

Posted by: Menz | Dec 22 2023 8:52 utc | 181

175 – They’re probably wondering, “Why is Fred from Stakeout in civilian clothes and acting up? Has he been transferred?”

Posted by: Waldorf | Dec 22 2023 8:54 utc | 182

Posted by: g | Dec 22 2023 6:53 utc | 170
Nothing you have said contains the reality of the situation. However, these events do, they show the criminality of Jewish Zionism and Zionist Jews:

– ‘Cashing in on Genocide’: Israeli Firm Pitches Beachfront Real Estate in Leveled Gaza
– Israeli Tank ‘Fired at Building Housing Israelis on 7 October’
– Israeli Forces Shot Two Palestinians in the Chest, Abdomen in Nablus Raid
– Distress Calls From Gaza City Describe Horrors, Executions
– IDF Says It Dismantled Hamas North Gaza Force; Palestinians Report Dozens Killed on Tuesday
– UK Media Are Suppressing Mentions of Israel’s ‘Genocide’ in Gaza
– Half of Young Americans Think Israel Intentionally Kills Civilians, Survey Says
– Israel Raids One of the Last Hospitals in North Gaza
– Palestinian Baby Girl, Born 17 Days Ago During Gaza War, Is Killed With Brother in Israeli Strike
– Scores of Palestinians Killed and Wounded in New Israeli Massacres Across Gaza
– UK PM Rishi Sunak Says ‘Too Many’ Civilians Killed in Gaza
– What Do Western Politicians Mean by ‘Sustainable Ceasefire’ in Gaza?
– Israel ‘Forcibly Disappears’ Marwan Barghouthi and Other Palestinian Prisoners
– Who Are the Catholics of Gaza Besieged in the Holy Family Church?
– Gaza War Is World’s ‘Moral Failure’, Red Cross Chief Says
– Gaza ‘World’s Most Dangerous Place for Children’: UNICEF
– Israeli Attack on Residential Area in South Gaza Kills at Least 29 People
– ‘We Have a Duty’: US Doctor Says Ceasefire an ‘Ethical Imperative’ in Gaza
– Northern Cyprus to Restrict Property Sales After Rumor of Mass Jewish Purchases
– UK Labour Muslim Network Pressures Starmer to Cut Ties With Israeli Ambassador
– Important Archaeological Site ‘Mostly Destroyed’ by Israeli Invasion
– Fears Mount for Gaza’s Tiny Christian Community After Mom and Daughter Shot Dead
– Palestinian Girl, 12, Lost Her Family and Her Leg in an Airstrike. She Was Killed While Recovering at a Gaza Hospital
– Israeli Forces Kill Four, Including Two Children, in Raid on Refugee Camp
– Over 25,000 Palestinians Killed in Gaza, Hundreds Missing: EuroMed Monitor
– Israel Kills 300 in West Bank Since Start of Gaza War
– Twenty Released Palestinian Inmates Set to Return to Jerusalem Schools in January
– Gaza Grandfather Describes Killing of His Family by Israeli Soldiers
– Scores of Palestinians Killed in 16 Israeli Massacres as Death Toll Passes 19,000
– Protests in Germany, Netherlands Demand ‘Ceasefire Now’
– Mass Layoffs at Ben Gurion Airport – Israel’s Economic Crisis Deepens
– Gaza Journalists Both Witnesses and Victims of War
– Israeli Army Admits to the Killing of Five More Soldiers in Gaza
– ‘Horror’ in Gaza Hospitais as Israel Kills 90 in Jabalia
– East Jerusalem Residents Brace for Mass Demolitions Wave as World’s Attention Fixed on Gaza
– Human Rights Watch Says Israel Is Using Starvation as Weapon of War
– Israeli Soldiers Told ‘Not to Shoot Surrendering People’ After Hostages Killed
– ‘Bloodbath’: Israel Continues to Target Gaza Hospitals and Civilians
– Captives Mistakenly Killed by Israeli Troops Left SOS Signs in Hebrew
– Hundreds of Gazans Arrested During War Held Blindfolded and Handcuffed at Israeli Base
– Israel Kills 26 at Al-Shifa Hospital as Shipping Giants Swerve Red Sea

There’s no ‘both sides’ to this. Just as there is no ‘two sides’ to a rape.
All your attempts to weave a ‘both sides’ narrative merely amount to an announcement that “Hey, maybe she was asking for it!”.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 9:23 utc | 183

The Houthis are smart…
This just in…Red sea is being indicated with an increase of 1000 usd per FCL.
And this…
250 usd surcharge/teu for red sea traffic effective 12/26 on MSC.

Posted by: Scuppers | Dec 22 2023 9:28 utc | 184

Andrew Coyne, who is the go-to guy in Canada if you want an opinion on politics, wrote the other day that Trump is habitually compared to Hitler because he IS Hitler. But let me ask you this: no matter what your opinion on Trump, would the curteny genocide be allowed to happen on his watch?
Coyne also talks about Trump’s threats to purge the deep state. But if you look at all the legal trouble being thrown at Trump, conveniently in time for the 2024 elections, and at his supporters like Giuliani isn’t the legal apparatus already being weaponized against political opponents?
I think Coyne believes what he says, which demonstrates the power of the elite’s own propaganda to brainwash themselves (as Jacques Ellul wrote). In this case, however, it is far from innocuous. The elites are now deluding themselves with the notion that “ahhh it would be infinitely worse under Trump” as if the genocide were all Trump’s fault!

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 9:42 utc | 185

I’ve seen several references in this thread, and others over the last few months, to “Normal Jews”. What is a Normal Jew? Do they go to synagogue? Do they follow the teachings of their rabbi? In which case they will have been indoctrinated with the teachings of the Talmud since birth and by default will be supremacists in outlook.
Or are secular Jews “Normal Jews”? If one is not following the teachings of the rabbis or attending synagogue, can one still be called a Jew? Jewishness is not a race, how then would one account for the Ethiopian Jews? Or the Ashkenazi? It is a supremacist religion, based on being the “ chosen people” of their god. So if secular Jews reject the teachings of the rabbi, are they still jews?
Secular jews still enjoy the ability to network with the whole Jewish diaspora to gain advantage in life, specifically against the goy. So in this respect, they are still following rabbinic teachings (Talmud). So are secular jews just lazy jews who still get the benefit of their Jewish faith.
Again, what is a “normal Jew”? As I mentioned previously, jews have institutionalised the bearing of false witness. One only has to look at the quote from Blinken above to see that. All I know is that, as a minority exercising overwhelming influence in the world today, expecting “normal jews” to make any difference to the state of play is naive and self deceptive.

Posted by: Phalanges | Dec 22 2023 9:42 utc | 186

Or are secular Jews “Normal Jews”? If one is not following the teachings of the rabbis or attending synagogue, can one still be called a Jew? Jewishness is not a race, how then would one account for the Ethiopian Jews? Or the Ashkenazi? It is a supremacist religion, based on being the “ chosen people” of their god. So if secular Jews reject the teachings of the rabbi, are they still jews?
Again, what is a “normal Jew”?
Posted by: Phalanges | Dec 22 2023 9:42 utc | 190
Hallelujah. Some begin to see the light …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 22 2023 9:48 utc | 187

The one who most shaped my perception of the situation in Palestine was and is an atheist Jew, a communist. That is why I don’t want to generalize.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 9:58 utc | 188

But let me ask you this: no matter what your opinion on Trump, would the curteny genocide be allowed to happen on his watch?
Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 9:42 utc | 189

Trump’s watch ==> https://www.timesofisrael.com/ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-tour-ravaged-gaza-border-town-meet-survivors-of-oct-7/

Posted by: too scents | Dec 22 2023 10:14 utc | 189

Ivanka Trump officially opens U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem ==> https://youtu.be/WDV6pX1ZLYA

Posted by: too scents | Dec 22 2023 10:18 utc | 190

Kites! White Kites of Hope and Angelic Love! 🙂
/s These too are anti-Semitic. 😉

Posted by: titmouse | Dec 22 2023 10:21 utc | 191

Posted by: too scents | Dec 22 2023 10:14 utc | 193
Yeah I know but how much worse could anyone, even Trump, be than what we are seeing now with the war going on in Ukraine and brewing in other places. I am just extrapolating from my conviction Trump would pick up the phone and call Putin and then talk Netanyahu out of this.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 10:23 utc | 192

I am just extrapolating from my conviction
Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 10:23 utc | 196

Re-watch Ivanka dedicate the US embassy in Jerusalem until reality sinks in.

Posted by: too scents | Dec 22 2023 10:31 utc | 193

Making Jews and Zionists synonymous is an Antisemitic Zionist Israel Neocon US Empire Trap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6cGJ0gbI4Y

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Dec 22 2023 10:32 utc | 194

Posted by: too scents | Dec 22 2023 10:31 utc | 197
I will but I am sure you are extrapolating too. I just can’t square the destruction in Gaza with Trump’s willingness to see the Abraham Accords come into being. Or maybe it was Kushner. But everybody has a dog in this fight don’t they?

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 10:38 utc | 195

But everybody has a dog in this fight don’t they?
Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 10:38 utc | 199

Not by choice.

Posted by: too scents | Dec 22 2023 10:42 utc | 196

Posted by: too scents | Dec 22 2023 10:42 utc | 200
Amen

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 10:44 utc | 197

Lebanese TV reports:
12:40 Clahes erupt as Israeli occupation forces deny access of Palestinian worshipers to Al-Aqsa Mosque
Comment – this struggle didn’t start on 7.Oct; it started on 2.Oct when settlers escorted by IDF stormed the Al-Aqsa Mosque and brutalized worshipers. Please note 2.Oct

Posted by: Exile | Dec 22 2023 10:51 utc | 198

Posted by: Exile | Dec 22 2023 10:51 utc | 202
When did it start? Consider this:
Denis Michael Rohan was an Australian member of Worldwide Church of God (i.e. Armstrongism) who famously attempted to set fire to the Jami’a Al-Aqsa in 1969 under the belief it would accelerate the coming apocalypse.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Dec 22 2023 10:58 utc | 199

Aristodemos @ 156:
You ought to read this English-language translation made by the US Defense Department of an Iraqi intelligence research paper on the origins of the Wahhabi movement in Saudi Arabia. The research and report were done at the request of the then Iraqi President Saddam Hussein back in 2001 or 2002. The report was later found by US soldiers during the US invasion and overthrow of Saddam Hussein’s government in 2003.
The report says that Wahhabism was used as a tool by the British to corrupt Islam and turn it into the fundamentalist bastard ideology that is the official religion of Saudi Arabia. Both the founder of the Saud dynasty and Muhammad Abdul Wahhab, the founder of Wahhabism, are said to have Jewish origins, and that one of these unsavoury gentlemen is descended from the leader of a messianic Jewish sect whose members were forced to convert to Islam by Ottoman Turkish authorities in the 1700s and then banished to an area that is now part of northern Saudi Arabia or neighbouring Iraq.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Dec 22 2023 11:21 utc | 200