Palestine Open Thread 2023-297
Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.
The current open thread for other issues is here.
Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Posted by b on December 9, 2023 at 14:40 UTC | Permalink
next page »Question: What would you do to stop antisemitism?
Answer: Referring to the genocidal Zionist Project as
the Jewish State
brings ill repute upon innocent Jewish people everywhere.
I would disavow that reference.
Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2023 14:57 utc | 2
Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2023 14:57 utc | 2
Lets do less worrying and talking about the perception of jews and more about the physical safety of Palestinians.
Posted by: ryanggg | Dec 9 2023 15:04 utc | 3
librul @2
Although what you say may well be true, the world seems to be having a tough time redirecting concern from the genocide taking place to the perceived repute of innocent Jewish people everywhere.
Posted by: Ozark Grandpa | Dec 9 2023 15:05 utc | 4
This is what all should be concerned about:
Al Ahram, 09.12.2023
11:40 In a video conference with journalists, international organizations depicted a bleak picture of what Save the Children called the "horrors" unfolding in the Gaza Strip.
"The situation in Gaza is not just a catastrophe, it's apocalyptic... with potentially irreversible consequences on Palestinian people," said Bushra Khalidi of Oxfam.
"Israel safe zones within Gaza are a mirage," she added.
Only 14 of the 36 hospitals in the Gaza Strip are currently functioning in any capacity, according to UN humanitarian agency OCHA, and little aid is reaching those in need.
"Those who survived the bombardment now face imminent risk of dying of starvation and disease," said Alexandra Saieh of Save the Children.
"Our teams are telling us of maggots being picked from wounds and children undergoing amputations without anesthetic," lining up by the "hundreds" for a "single toilet" or roaming the streets in search of food, she added.
"There are simply no safe spaces in Gaza, and we've seen this since the (Israeli) directive... calling on people to flee northern Gaza to the south," said Shaina Low of the Norwegian Refugee Council.
Sandrine Simon of the Medecins du Monde (Doctors of the World) said: "Gaza's hospitals are becoming morgues. That's unacceptable."
Doctors Without Borders president Isabelle Defourny said: "We are working in Al-Aqsa hospital, receiving an average of 150 to 200 war-wounded patients daily... since the first of December."
Defourny spoke of "indiscriminate carnage."
10:41 The Director of UNRWA Affairs in Gaza Thomas White described his trip to a UN distribution centre in Rafah on Friday, saying: "All you could hear was air strikes going into the city."
He told the BBC a guesthouse he shared with colleagues was hit last night and described a "desperate situation" for Palestinians.
Thomas White said that a ceasefire was crucial. "Here in Rafah we have hundreds of thousands of people who are living in the open," he explained. "There is a lack of water. Everyone in the street is asking for flour to feed their children."
"Our shelters have well over 7,000 people. There are hundreds using the one toilet for example."
"If the bombs aren't going to kill them, it is the disease, or for those living out on the streets, it'll be the exposure."
Posted by: JB | Dec 9 2023 15:11 utc | 5
Political Islam has endured hundreds of years of Anglosaxon persecution. Rivers of Muslim blood in Delhi. Concentration camps in Africa. Torture rendition chemical brain-washing after 9/11.
Political Islam always blames the proxies , like Netanyahu or Saddam Hussain, EVEN WHEN they see the hundreds of tons of munitions being delivered to Israel and hear the British military accents putside their Torture cells.
Political Islam always believes that their own anger is irrational and Anglosaxons are rational and will respond rationally to being opposed.
There are two choices.
1/ Forever oppose these survivors of Anglosaxon viciousness when they propose to attack the Anglosaxon Empire's interests on the grounds of their respecting the Empire as a civilisation.
2/ Forever oppose every aspect of Weatern Civilisation, which is what Crooke wants you to do. Civilisational war.
Islam is civilised . It guards womenfolk, chastity and children. It protects the core of human existence from which humans go into to work, fight or trade.
Western society now is deeply uncivilised, tolerating family break-up and the molesting of unprotected children. Workers are abused in their jobs, emotionally and sexually. Neoliberal economics divide society into home owners and rent payers who own nothing.
Are we going to put the survivors of Western brutalityin charge of the community, or not. Experience tells us that abused people abuse others.
Are we going to allow the survivors of abuse expose the Palestinian population to genocide ,,? To replicate the abuse they suffered Themselves on the entire community? That is madness.
Or are we going to hold the West accountable for its crimes?
Right now , the agenda of the victims of Western political abuse is directly causing the whole Palestinian community to suffer genocide.
Do we blame the victims of abuse for being deranged ?
Or do we finally agree that Western Civilisation needs to be destroyed?
When we answer that question we will then
how to proceed.
Posted by: Giyane | Dec 9 2023 15:30 utc | 6
By virtually all measures, israel is engaged in the implementation of genocidal policies in Gaza. The US is not just an accomplice, it is an active participant.
Posted by: Joseph B | Dec 9 2023 15:33 utc | 7
BDS and all Likud supporting businesses everywhere. Vote with your pocketbook. Some surprising companies come up:
For example - Timberland Boots, Tschibo, Chanel, and Shell Oil a prime candidates for boycott.
Posted by: Exile | Dec 9 2023 15:34 utc | 8
Someone (a professor at a university in Chicago?) said on Sputnik radio/news last night said (more or less in about as many words - sorry i was only listening with one ear, while out walking) that the
UN General Assembly could:
1) Set up and hold War Crimes Trials (since the ICC has been compromised/corrupted in recent years);
2) Expell Israel (& the USA?) & bring Palestine into the General Assembly;
3) Impose sanctions on the Israel for their war crimes (most documented war crime ever), and
4) Sanction the US too, for providing the deadly ammunition for the war crimes.
Not sure, but it seems that they may have also said suggested that the horrifically useless UN security council, could be abolished & replaced by the General Assembly. Those seem like very practical, hopeful solutions from here.
How can this massive, outrageous problem of lawlessness be solved? Thoughts?
Source: https://sputnikglobe.com/
"Good for good, but for evil: Justice." Confucius
Posted by: Toby C | Dec 9 2023 15:36 utc | 9
This is what all should be concerned about: Posted by: JB | Dec 9 2023 15:11 utc | 5
Israeli massacre at Al-Yemen Al-Saeed Hospital in Jabalia camp, as narrated by journalist Anas al-Sharif:
-Tents with displaced people burned, including disabled patients.
-Tens of bodies inside the hospital due to lack of medical services.
-The Israeli army shoots at anyone trying to enter the hospital.
-The Hospital building was bombed with dozens of shells.
I said right at the outset that Israel killing doctors, hospital, ambulance and medical staff not only in Gaza but also in the West Bank is the most deliberate and important aspect of the genocide. .
Firstly because it directly speeds up the death rate as the injured and ill have no access to treatment.
Secondly, because it’s deliberate sadism of ensuring the injured die as slowly and PAINFULLY as possible from horrific injuries with the various forbidden weapons Israel is using in purely civilian areas. And imagine watching your loved ones die like that.
Thirdly because hospitals are normally protected NO MATTER what and have been throughout human history. So Israel and the Collective Waste (the term used by Andrew Sarchus in yesterday’s thread) are sending a big FUCK YOU to the rest of humanity.
The deliberate farce by Western MSM around Israel’s bombing of Al Ahli and the tunnel distraction at Al Shifa were to avoid discussion of points 1-3 above. The hostage rescue that was thwarted by Hamas took place with the Israelis coming in an AMBULANCE. They are the ones who do everything they have accused the other side of.
They are subhuman and so are the Red Cross and the UN. The UN for not standing up for its UNRWA employeed on the ground, the Palestinian aid workers who are a heroic level of human different from the cockroaches in the HQ. The Red Cross because it never visits Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails. The targeting of aid workers and journalists and educators means aid distribution does not happen (when it gets in) and the story does not get out.
One could write a huge book on all the crimes by Israel since Oct 8 just on the hospitals.
Posted by: pq | Dec 9 2023 15:44 utc | 10
if you want to end the genocide you must first make a deal with the oil, gas and pipeline people that they cannot refuse..because clearing Gaza is about claims to the offshore oil, gas, and the pipeline to service European oil demand. the nation states cannot intervene, least those who control their leadership shall extract a punishment beyond belief.
IMO.
Posted by: snake | Dec 9 2023 15:57 utc | 11
Adding to JB at no. 1:
"After the expected debacle in the UN Security Council, and the cynical US reasons for refusing to support a ceasefire, it seems to me that each state has a duty to finally, and actually act to stop the collective death of the Palestinian population in Gaza and the crimes against those in the West Bank."
As Chris Hedges indicates in an essay today ("The Evil Israeli Does . . .") the essential problem is the depths humans can sink to in their raging vengeance, which sadistically dehumanizes and leads to, in this specific case, equating ALL Palestinians (including infants) with Hamas. Thus, "Exterminate!"
The problem is ancient and ongoing, expressed as "the horror" and human beastliness--Allow this kind of rage and turn into a monster.
JB is right: leadership needs to work to STOP/slow/smother this tendency, NOT facilitate it as Biden and the US are doing, showing incredible denseness and stupidity with hypocritical statements about "too many innocent lives lost" etc. As has been said before, the whole world is watching.
Posted by: botete | Dec 9 2023 16:12 utc | 13
Forever oppose every aspect of Weatern Civilisation, which is what Crooke wants you to do. Civilisational war.
Posted by: Giyane | Dec 9 2023 15:30 utc | 6
Not sure Crooke would agree with that statement...
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 9 2023 16:12 utc | 14
librul @2
Although what you say may well be true, the world seems to be having a tough time redirecting concern from the genocide taking place to the perceived repute of innocent Jewish people everywhere.
Posted by: Ozark Grandpa | Dec 9 2023 15:05 utc | 4
Sorry, they have no self control on what they blabber. Typical western approach. Forget what they said about Islam and Muslims? They also call all of them terrorists. Even those living in isolated villages in the east indies
Posted by: joey | Dec 9 2023 16:12 utc | 15
…. Israel belongs to the Jewish people and no one else…..
Correct as described in UNR 181 (Nov 1947) lies the Jewish State.
One might also check UNR 194 (Dec 1948) - which states Israeli owes reparations and needs to allow all Arabs to return to their properties. There is also the matter of UNSC 2334 (2016) also details the Reparations Israel owes the Arabs,
Of course the most powerful statement is the ICJ advisory opinion of 2004 which unequivocally states Israel owes reparations for damages to Arab property.
The reparations bills just keeps growing.
Posted by: Exile | Dec 9 2023 16:13 utc | 16
NOTHING NEW FOLKS! Theodor Herzl, the founder of the Zionist movement, said in 1895: “We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border…while denying it any employment in our country… Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.”
Posted by: Geraint ap Iorwerth | Dec 9 2023 16:19 utc | 17
After voting down a ceasefire at the UN
the US thumbed it's nose at morality and the rest of the world
by approving more tank shells for the Zionist Project.
[emphasis mine]
WASHINGTON, Dec 9 (Reuters) - The Biden administration has used an emergency authority to allow the sale of about 14,000 tank shells to Israel without congressional review, the Pentagon said on Saturday.The State Department on Friday used an Arms Export Control Act emergency declaration for the tank rounds worth $106.5 million for immediate delivery to Israel, the Pentagon said in a statement.
Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2023 16:25 utc | 18
@Judah | Dec 9 2023 16:04 utc | 12
Palestine belongs to the Palestinian people and no one else.
The Zionists can go live with their Zionist brothers and the Europeans & Americans.
————
There, I fixed it for you.
Posted by: tawharanui | Dec 9 2023 16:27 utc | 19
My word. If there was ever a posterchild for becoming misanthropist.
Posted by: Tannenhouser | Dec 9 2023 16:36 utc | 20
Ahenobarbus 14
My starting point is that Judaism is rejection of Christian and Muslim values , and is therefore the same as Zionism.
Western politics has abandoned Christianity and is therefore as bad as Zionism.
Christians and Muslims are on one side of rhe civilisational divide . But Jewish belief in a Land which they were expelled from doesn't mean they have yet done enough to get it back. That would involve
nothing less than recognition of and belief in the Messiah and Last Prophet.AS.
I've no idea if Crooke does. He shouldn't be commenting if he doesn't.
Posted by: Giyane | Dec 9 2023 16:40 utc | 21
Software companies need to be called out as well. Who is helping with the design of bulldozers, tanks that are leveling the towns?
Posted by: moonofendor | Dec 9 2023 16:42 utc | 22
Muslims commonly support beating or killing women who disobey, as with executions in soccer stadiums by the Taliban. I wish Israel or someone would set up sanctuary for Muslim women threatened with honor killing. I recall an execution of a young woman in Gaza for talking with a male alone- who turned out to be a close relative. Hamas reaction was Oops, our bad.
Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 9 2023 16:42 utc | 23
Ahenobarbus 14
Crooke is with non-Christian Western politics , which is as unhelpful as Zionism although different.
Christians and Muslims should not permit Non-Christian , Western politicians to represent their views, because they don't.
Posted by: Giyane | Dec 9 2023 16:45 utc | 24
@ Eighthman | Dec 9 2023 16:42 utc | 23
That has nothing to do with whether Pslestinians deserve to have their own land.
Posted by: malenkov | Dec 9 2023 16:46 utc | 25
pq | Dec 9 2023 15:44 utc | 10
“Collective Waste” is a term coined by DunGroanin many many moons ago.
Posted by: suzan | Dec 9 2023 16:53 utc | 26
What could be done? Any effective action requires Russia and China (but also non-Muslim countries like Brazil, Vietnam, Colombia, Bolivia, South Africa, Mexico) to be involved. (forgetaboutIndia).
An aid convoy sneaking past guard dog Sisi by GCC and OIC alone WITHOUT partnership from a big non-Muslim nation will have all “Islamists” in MSM shrieking “look! Poor Israel, Islam against us, War of Terror, Muslims are giving Hamas weapons blablabla”. These countries’ assets in the West will be frozen. Media prejudice against Muslim / immigrants in the West will go into overdrive.
Putin is intelligent and patriotic, a great leader for Russia but he has been the biggest fence sitter of all. Hear me out before yelling at me.
Russia have their hands full with Ukraine / NATO but that does not excuse their half assed verbal statements. I was disappointed with the Raisi transcript: Putin changed the topic when Gaza came up.
Never mind that Muslims in Russia are 14 million and Jewish + Israeli dual is less than 3 million max.
My impression of Putin is that like Saudi / UAE, he craves the approval of the West. Over 75% of Russians live in Europe and many see it as “above” Asia. Putin has not clued in that the West see him on the same level as “Hamas” even as he condemned Hamas. I get that GCC leaders have big ambitions for their countries but like Putin, they need to understand that Western leaders do not see them as “equals”.
Reposting this excellent breakdown by Helmer from a previous thread with the most hopeful para:
Iran President Raisi Asks President Putin To Support Gaza Action - Putin is Evasive For the Moment
Moscow analysts note that while Putin may be keeping his distance from the Iranian rhetoric against Israel, at the working group level the collaboration of the two states in military, financial and strategic operations means much more. There is also discreet evidence that the Chinese are active in the planning of a major humanitarian operation for Gaza.
https://johnhelmer.net/iran-president-raisi-asks-president-putin-to-support-gaza-action-putin-is-evasive-for-the-moment/
Posted by: John Gilberts | Dec 9 2023 10:39 utc | 266
I’ll be very happy to be proven wrong if Putin falls of the fence and lands on the Palestinian side.
Posted by: pq | Dec 9 2023 17:02 utc | 27
Palestine for the Palestinians
Natzionists can return to where they came from - the land of Khazaria.
We can see that it’s already been prepped and the last Ukrops is nearly done away as some form of human fertiliser.
The Finks have bought up lots of land illegally. They have enough left over slaves and will migrate millions from the Levant whether they want to come or not. The same way they encouraged them to go with the holocaust and antisemitic fascism wholly backed by the financial wealth and aristos of the Anglo Europeans Imperialism.
Zionism started a long time before Herzl did his bit. It was opposed by many Anglo Judaism English and Brits and some yanks too. Not many because that land was a wholly Zionist project from day one and still is. The majority of pro Zionist settlers supporters are dumbest of dumb fundamentalist Christians, from the PB to the most evangelical
Zionism also came the Berlin Conference, where the Great Bismarck demurred to the ‘Old Jew‘ Disraeli and his fellow Zionists Imperial Caesars to write the strategy for the future of Anglo European continued imperialism into the C20th.
All else followed :
The US Fed , Balfour illegal contract, illegal apartheid entity forced through the newly set up UN resolution as one of its main tasks! Before most nations had even became independent to join that body.
None of the decisions and promises and contracts, to this day are valid. They should all be rescinded.
Freedom for Palestine is now the major concern by the eviction of the illegal Apartheid State the last Imperial colony of the Collective Waste
Let’s see what the ancient peoples of that part of the Yemen have to say this evening in a prominently announced statement.
‘-- GEROMAN -- time will tell - 👀 --
@GeromanAT
1h
"The statement of the Yemeni Armed Forces will be presented at exactly seven o’clock this evening, God willing."
العميد يحيى سريع
@army21ye
2h
بيان القوات المسلحة اليمنية سيتم عرضه في تمام الساعة السابعة مساء اليوم إن شاء الله.
Dec 9, 2023 · 3:28 PM UTC’
Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 9 2023 17:15 utc | 28
I have produced a music video on behalf of the People of Palestine. There are no credits in this video as it is a donation. It's a bit graphic, so fasten your seatbelts.
https://rumble.com/v3zwymj-viva-palestine.html
Posted by: Rabbi McGoyim | Dec 9 2023 17:28 utc | 29
fyi
from Elijah Magnier a short while ago.
the stakes have been upped by the Houthis in Yemen.
https://twitter.com/ejmalrai/status/1733518564659737074
#BreakingNews:
#Yemen Ansar Allah:"Effective immediately. No ship carrying merchandise or goods, regardless of their flag, to the Zionists (Israel) will not be allowed to cross the Red Sea or the Arab Sea unless food and supply are delivered to #Gaza".
Posted by: michaelj72 | Dec 9 2023 17:28 utc | 30
Keir Starmer confronted by pro-Palestinian activists in Glasgow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXi4TCCc-pA
Posted by: Apollyon | Dec 9 2023 17:36 utc | 31
@ michaelj72 | Dec 9 2023 17:28 utc | 30
The double negative in Elijah Magnier‘s twitter post, probably an artifact of translation, needs correction to convey its meaning, “no ship regardless of flag shall pass unless ...”.
Posted by: suzan | Dec 9 2023 17:41 utc | 32
Replying to
tawharanui | Dec 9 2023 16:27 utc
“ Palestine belongs to the Palestinian people and no one else”
—————
To us, the entire land and the Jew belong to each other because it is inherent in our heritage. It is enshrined in the Bible, it’s not the promised lad G-d did not promise but he gave , all of what is Gaza and West Bank is the GIVEN land that was for the chosen people.
Yet Jews often shy away from making the Biblical claim outright. You hear Jews speak of the United Nations Vote for Partition in 1948. You hear Jews speak of a historical right to reclaim the land of our ancestors, but rarely does one hear Jews speak publicly about a G-d given right enshrined in the Bible and this is The only true reason why Jew live in Israel today. It isn’t a gift of the UN and it is not ours by right of conquest. It isn’t ours on account of history, it is ours because G-d made it so.
Had the UN given us California, we would not have gone. Had the Jewish people defeated the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto, we Jews would not have claimed that land as it rightly belongs to the polish people.
The land of our fathers, the land of our glory, the land of our home, the land of our soul; the land that moves millions of Jews worldwide since 1947 to leave and come and settle here, to fight in the IDF to make a home here, to build paradise here.
Should we deny this essential truth only because there are political movements in the world that are not prepared to accept it?
We Jews often shy away from making the Biblical claim outright. You hear Jews speak of the United Nations Vote for Partition in 1948. You hear Jews speak of a historical right to reclaim the land of our ancestors, but rarely does one hear Jews speak publicly about a G-d given right enshrined in the Bible.
Once again get it into your little head, Israel belongs to the Jews. We don’t require legal arguments or scientific proof to justify our claim to Israel.
The horrors of October 7th present us with an opportunity, that we might lose forever, to reclaim all of our land, we had previously agreed to share our land it with the Palestinians, Hamas returned the favour by rape and pillag while the whole world watched.
The world must now understand we cannot now live with Palestinians as neighbours. Our existence is threatened, there is plenty of land where the Palestinians can move to. Muslims nations must accommodate them, not a small country like Israel.
Posted by: David Cohen | Dec 9 2023 17:44 utc | 33
pq@27
Hemer's latest, yesterday is interesting. It deals with that very subject:
"..“On the battlefield Russians are very fast learners from their mistakes,” a veteran Moscow analyst says. “But in Russian politics and business they are slow to accept that the US and Israel have always been enemies to Russian interests, and will remain so. What the Americans and Israelis don’t realise is that Putin was the slowest to change his mind towards them. The Ukraine war and now the Gaza War have changed all that.”
Posted by: bevin | Dec 9 2023 17:46 utc | 34
This is not new, but I think it is still apposite.
Gideon Levy, Haaretz journalist, during an interview on BBC News, 7 October 2023, 11:28am BST
“[What] they want to achieve [is] to remind the world that there is a cage in the Middle East, an inhuman cage, which is already locked down for 70 years, and nobody cares. And the only way, I’m afraid to say, for the Palestinians and for Hamas to remind [the outside world of] their existence, remind [people of] their agony and their human suffering is by resisting. And they are going to pay a hell of a price, but what other choice did they have? Did anyone offer them [the] lifting [of] the siege, to let them live like human beings, having some kind of perspective of freedom, human rights? Nobody."
I searched for this quote on Google. There was only one hit, at the Internet Archive. So it's been mostly scrubbed from the internet. The original transcript (auto generated, quite hard to read) and the video can be viewed at:
https://archive.org/details/BBCNEWS_20231007_100000_BBC_News
(you need to scroll to the 3rd column from the far right-hand end of the browser window on a PC browser)
Please try searching for it yourself. Suggested search string:
"Gideon Levy" "there is a cage in the Middle East"
Posted by: tawharanui | Dec 9 2023 17:57 utc | 35
Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 9 2023 16:42 utc | 23
Typic rant from a deluded and ignorant chap.
Try to get some braincells implanted. Feel sorry for you.
Posted by: joey | Dec 9 2023 18:00 utc | 36
Regards to the post by: David Cohen | Dec 9 2023 17:44 utc
When the settlers drove the red Indians out of their land they too claimed that God give America to them. The days of seizure, annexation and colonialism of land and territory from weaker populations is over, we are supposed to be living in a less primitive world in the year 2023, with something called the universal declaration of human rights, the United Nations, the Geneva convention and International law.
Stop this religious Mombo Jumbo to justify a genocide which is being televised for the first time.
Posted by: Casper | Dec 9 2023 18:02 utc | 37
@ librul | Dec 9 2023 14:57 utc | 2
I appreciate that you in particular distinguish between Zionism and Judaism, which is essential at this time, and here you correctly point out that the linking of Israel to Judaism by Zionists calling it the "Jewish State" arouses hatred of Jews and Judaism everywhere.
But that is the intentional plan. Israel is a nationalist, not a Jewish, project, and never the twain shall meet. Only superficial trappings are Jewish. The god of Israel is the state. Israeli nationalism does not differ from any other nationalism; its fault is not its Jewishness but its complete lack of any real Jewish content. Nationalism is essentially a form of pagan idolatry. Now, it is fine for a person to love their home, just as I appreciate the wonderful natural beauty of the US and especially of my home state of Washington. But that is not what is meant by an identitarian nationalism that consumes a person with its religious dedication.
So Israel is not only not Jewish nor a Jewish project, except insofar as people considering themselves Jewish have built it up as an identitarian effort, but it is also fundamentally anti-Semitic and the major backer of anti-Semitism today. First, it is filled with hatred of Judaism and Jewish history, because it vows to turn its back on all that and render itself into a nation-state that is of the same form as any other nation state. It rejects the very idea of Jews living among others as has been the case for the last 2,500 years. Indeed, Judaism was formed in the diaspora, not in Palestine. So Jews who are Zionists are actually self-hating Jews, the very label they throw at their anti-Zionist Jewish opponents.
But Zionism is also fundamentally anti-Semitic in the sense of 19th-century European anti-Semitism, in that it asserts that Jews cannot live peacefully and safely among any other people. Thus, it agreed with Hitler that Jews ought not to live in Germany and its main party in mandate Palestine even made the Ha-`Avarah agreement with Nazi Germany that was in effect from 1933 to 1939, half of Nazi Germany's existence, to facilitate moving the German Jews to Palestine. As part of this agreement, Adolf Eichmann even visited Jewish settlements in Palestine and complemented them on their German-like efficiency. At that phase of Naziism, it seemed to the Nazis and the Zionists alike that moving the Jews to their own unique homeland in Palestine was a good solution for the undesirability of having Jews living in Germany. The Zionist opponents of this agreement led by Jabotinsky, the mentor of Begin, did not approve of working with the Nazis, but themselves were admirers and supporters of Mussolini and Italian fascism. These facts are meticulously documented by Lenni Brenner in his two books Zionism in the Age of the Dictators and The Iron Wall.
And Zionism has maintained its support for and encouragement of anti-Semitism and Jew-hatred down to the present, being delighted by any anti-Semitic sentiments that will hector the diaspora Jews into moving to Israel. That is the interest of Israel, to keep the anti-Semitic pot boiling.
So it is important to oppose Israel anti-Semitism or anti-Judaism and not to blame the Jews, as an overgeneralization, for Zionism. First, there are plenty of openly anti-Zionist Jews, even if they are a minority. Second, one should not underestimate the degree to which compulsion by various forms of threat is used to keep most of the Jews in line so they will not rebel against Zionist excesses. Look what they are doing right now to try to suppress the growing proportion of anti-Zionist Jews, especially the young people, by denouncing them not just as self-hating Jews but also even as anti-Semites! Third, a lot of Jews are completely unaware of the reality of Israel, having been bamboozled by Zionist propaganda. I remember once long ago when I was in Jerusalem and told an American Jews about the reality of Israel, and his reaction was, "If all that is true, I will join al-Fatah!" (This was before the founding of Hamas.) It is important that our attention not be diverted by identitarian labels from who our real friends and allies are.
Posted by: Cabe | Dec 9 2023 18:05 utc | 38
Does it really matter who a land really belongs to in this day and age? There are something around eight billion people on the planet now with many people all over having no place to go and no home. Who ever a land belongs to, given the circumstances it would then make more sense to have some compassions and share?
I believe what we are really talking about is needing to call out and get rid of the hate and other psychopathy that is residing amoung us where ever it may reside.
Posted by: Gee Eye Joe | Dec 9 2023 18:06 utc | 39
@David Cohen | Dec 9 2023 17:44 utc | 33
"The horrors of October 7th present us with an opportunity"
... for genocide.
How about, every day from 14 May 1948 until 6 October 2023? There's ample evidence that those 27,538 days presented you with 75 years' worth of opportunities for genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing and occupation. Which you enthusiastically pursued.
Posted by: tawharanui | Dec 9 2023 18:13 utc | 40
Yemen's Houthis have said they will obstruct the passage of ships heading to Israel.https://t.me/Slavyangrad/78254“The Yemeni armed forces say they will prevent the passage of ships heading to the Zionist entity (Israel - TASS note), regardless of which country they belong to. If the Gaza Strip does not receive the food and medicine it needs, such ships will become legal target for our armed forces,” said the representative of the rebel movement, Yahya Saria, on Al Masirah TV channel.
At the same time, he emphasized that the Houthis do not pose a threat to shipping in the Red and Arabian Seas if the ships in the area are not associated with Israel.
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2023 18:18 utc | 41
War is over
If you want it
https://youtu.be/yN4Uu0OlmTg?si=hkAfTPAYH8fMjbTS
Posted by: Dogtired | Dec 9 2023 18:19 utc | 42
"Elon Musk's company, SpaceX, launched satellites for Israeli intelligence company ImageSat International last year.
ImageSat International uses those satellites for target acquisition in Israeli air force bombings on the region."
Posted by: Laura Roslin | Dec 9 2023 18:25 utc | 43
David Cohen | Dec 9 2023 17:44 utc | 33
What a sick phuck! What an ignorant tosser!
Israel's very existence is a crime against humanity.
The genocide and land theft has been ongoing for 100 years since 1920.
All of Israel is occupied territory and all of it must be returned to the rightful owners, the Palestinian people themselves.
The state of Israel to be eradicated, and replaced by the unitary State of Palestine with a new Constitution, and the right of return of all Palestinians refugees, and seizure/nationalization of all previously stolen lands and property on behalf of the people.
The Zionists should think themselves lucky if any are allowed to remain and become citizens of Palestine.
Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Dec 9 2023 18:27 utc | 44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldFAlyH4Jcs
163,215 views 7 Dec 2023 #israel #war #journalistIsraeli strikes on a group of seven journalists in south Lebanon on 13 October, which killed Reuters journalist Issam Abdallah and injured six others, were likely a direct attack on civilians that must be investigated as a war crime, Amnesty International said today.
Amnesty International verified over 100 videos and photographs, analyzed weapons fragments from the site, and interviewed nine witnesses. The findings indicate that the group was visibly identifiable as journalists and that the Israeli military knew or should have known that they were civilians yet attacked them anyway in two separate strikes 37 seconds apart.
Posted by: anon2020 | Dec 9 2023 18:27 utc | 45
https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/95052
⏰🇮🇱 When, Not If: Clock Ticks On Netanyahu's Leadership
Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2023 18:32 utc | 46
@ Judah | Dec 9 2023 16:04 utc | 12
Another racist jewish zionist psychopath. Go to hell with your sickening ideas.
Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Dec 9 2023 18:32 utc | 47
@ David Cohen | Dec 9 2023 17:44 utc | 33
So you propose simply to appropriate all of the property of the indigenous inhabitants? That is unethical and immoral. You just want to dump them in waterless desert with no sustenance.
You say "Muslims nations must accommodate them"? Why would that be? What right do you or anyone else have to shove millions of people into someone else's country and say it is their problem? No, it isn't, nor will it be ever, ever accepted, nor do the Muslim nations have any inch of inhabitable territory that is not already inhabited and owned. Nor did the Muslim nations create the problem: You did, by invading and usurping the land of Palestine in the first place. All you have is "Might makes right," and two can play at that game. Egypt is the most densely-populated country in the world, with 106 million living on an area just slightly bigger than Maryland and Delaware combined, though those two have just over 7 million, making Egypt's inhabited areas over twelve times as densely populated as those two very urban states. The same for Jordan: do you know that the inhabitable part of Jordan is far more densely populated than Palestine, thanks to your earlier ethnic cleansings? Oh, but I forgot, that area was also in the biblical Promised Land, so you propose to drive out its eleven million inhabitants too.
As for biblical claims, I wonder what you would make of Rabbi Menachem Froman (1945-2013), who fully accepted the idea of a Palestinian state, at least in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, who met Yasir `Arafat and Ahmad Yasin, the spiritual guide of Hamas, who made the Froman-`Amayrah Accords with Hamas that were approved by Khalid Mash`al, even while being a West Bank settler and orthodox rabbi. Ahmad Yasin said to him, "If all the Jews were like you, there would be no problem." Maybe you should canvas his interpretation of living with the other.
Time to start thinking about the other, Mr. Cohen.
Posted by: Cabe | Dec 9 2023 18:35 utc | 48
reply to 36
I'm sorry but I missed any intelligent response to the issue of women within Muslim societies - something previously brought up here.
Given the tedious and unending discussions about who should own what, going back into ancient and likely mythical histories, I lean towards utility. I truly wish the unbending zeal in Muslim cultures extended towards common prosperity and respect for life in all cases. I frequent a Muslim grocery and am amazed by the variety and quality of their mostly Turkish goods. I see Gaza was exporting about $145 million per month, so they must have done something useful, other than warring. God speed to that.
Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 9 2023 18:38 utc | 49
Israel belongs to the Jewish people and no one else.
The palestinians can go live with their arab brothers and the Europeans & Americans.
Posted by: Judah | Dec 9 2023 16:04 utc | 12
Kindly please give a rational agreement in favour of your idea?
I wouldn't feel comfortable criticizing Hamas' tactics on October 7th mainly because most of what we hear is concocted atrocity propaganda to justify genocide. But even if I had a magic truth paring knife to cut to the bare truth of what happened, I don't feel authorized to speak for anyone whose whole people has been locked up for 17 years -- long enough for infants to grow up into quite angry young men and women. Chris Hedges retains my sense of discomfort, which I find compassionate.
I and the public know
What all schoolchildren learn
Those to whom evil is done
Do evil in return.
-- W.H. Auden
https://scheerpost.com/2023/12/08/chris-hedges-the-evil-israel-does-is-the-evil-israel-gets/
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 9 2023 18:40 utc | 51
yer just jealous of our Santa Claus
(and you killed our Saviour)
mutilated in the crib
when you were just infant
defined your life of victimhood
at that very instant
then at school other kids
had Christmas they had Santa
they had gingerbread and gifts galore
exluding you cuz you're a Jew
no wonder you are sore
what the hell is Chanukah?
Where is my St Nick
Christmas season is the reason
you grew up to be a prick
No wonder you are angy
no wonder you are cross
you just wanted santa claus
and the forskin you have lost
don't bother
I am sick of listening to their horseshit and I have lost my people skills
Posted by: ld | Dec 9 2023 18:40 utc | 52
Israel-Palestine Weekly Update: may be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/israel-palestine-weekly-update-c74?utm_source=activity_item
Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Dec 9 2023 18:46 utc | 53
I am very keen to avoid feeding trolls and to abide by the barkeeps rules of not abusing posters. But seeing as how they are swarming probably as sock puppets - are devout Zionists allowed to work today? Anyway that particular post which cites the ‘Bible’ without acknowledging that that book put Semitic Jews as the villains of the world! And still holds to it as will be seen clearly between now and Easter.
It’s time to smack that gobshittery square on and loosen some teeth from their lying mouths. How about some dentistry without pain 🦷 🦷 🦷 ?
Its as deluded a belief as every one of our Western Children, of every religion (there’s no escaping the Advertising) raised to believe in Santa Claus. No escaping the entertainment industrial complex.
To want to get something for nothing. Like a frozen child forever.
The story goes - A particular Sky Fairy has somehow communicated with some minds directly and told them to abandon their ancient Khazar lands in the pisspot that is now Urinia - and move to the Levant?
As some self entitled land grab in the crossroads of that ancient Semitic Peoples lands?
As some ‘white’ tribe that magically lived there a long time ago and does not look like these ancient peoples even?
That has no genetic or Semitic connections with these actual ancient human lands and peoples and civilisations and religious beliefs they hold?
That does not recognise the Judaic beliefs of the Semitic peoples of not just that land but of the wider African Jewery?
& The proof is ‘trust me bro - my god has spoken to me’ ?
That Voice in their demented noodles - do they hear it always?
Like tinnitus?
So ‘David’ and other nazios I ask you straight - does your particular Sky fairy manifest into physical form in your presence - is it in the room with you now ?
You know what to do if you answer in the affirmative, right?
Let’s be wholly straightforward - Your posts do NOT represent Judaism.
You are the fascist Zionist murdering illegal Apartheid entities charlatans obeying orders, quoting the Bible like the deluded German Nazis did Hitlers mein kampf!
Not a cigarette paper between the two ideologies of supremacy.
That’s not a coincidence because they were constructed by the same powers for the same ends.
If zionazis truly believed in their maker they should be preparing to meet IT !
Or return to Khazaria or any other Natzionist Imperial colony across the world that you already own - it’s called the 5 Eyes because the ‘+1’, just got handed a cease and desist notification. By the Yemenis an hour or so ago.
The Nazionist I*****I Project is OVER.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 9 2023 18:50 utc | 54
Israeli spokesperson Regev’s recent appearance on Sky News - to not only defend the stripping and humiliation of dozens of Palestinian men, but to contextualize it as a normal and unremarkable practice - displays precisely the banality of the crude sadism employed. This gaslighting of the International public, which ramped up with the lies over the hospital bombing in the early days, is producing a sort of stunned revulsion across the planet.
The U.S. veto at the UNSC yesterday basically endorses the concept that Israel’s citizens have entitlement to a greater degree of personal security than other citizens of the region, which of course flips and neutralizes international humanitarian laws developed in the wake of WW2 - largely in response to the horrors faced specifically by Jewish peoples in Europe. That the heirs of this state should revert to such cruelty and overtly extreme sadistic violence which apparently cannot be stopped, severely damages the human collective unconscious of the planet and ensures a grim cynicism will inform the near-term future.
This process is exemplified by the systematic and unrelenting destruction of Palestinian health care infrastructure, in Gaza and West Bank. Al-Awda Hospital, in Gaza, for example, is currently under siege:
“At least 250 doctors, patients, and their family members are on the brink of starvation in northern Gaza after Israeli snipers laid siege to al-Awda hospital, shooting to kill anyone who tries to enter the building, leave it, or even anyone veering too close to a window. A staff member inside al-Awda has given a first-hand account to Middle East Eye of the dire conditions inside the hospital, where people have enough food to last only a few days, and have nowhere to escape to. "We are at al-Awda hospital in the northern area, and have been under siege for four days. No one can move or enter or leave the hospital," said Mohammed, the staff member, who asked not to use his full name… Aside from the snipers, Mohammed said, Israeli tanks were within 50 to 70 metres of the hospital. If the siege continues, the hospital would run out of food in just a matter of days, he said.”
“As of just over a week ago, al-Awda hospital was the only functioning hospital that was providing medical services to pregnant women in northern Gaza. Mohammed described the situation as bleak, with the hospital filled with wounded Palestinians as well as new mothers with their infant children…Gaza's healthcare infrastructure is on the verge of collapse as Israel continues its military operations in the besieged enclave.”
“On the first day of the siege, an Israeli sniper shot and killed a woman who tried to enter the hospital's maternity ward. Her body remains on the street outside, with no one able to retrieve it due to the threat of being shot dead themselves. On Friday night, a hospital cleaner was shot through a window and killed.”
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-northern-gaza-awda-hospital-starvation-siege
Posted by: jayc | Dec 9 2023 18:50 utc | 55
sorry... angry
I composed this in the comment box
I guess spelling and shit does't seem such a crime anymore when psychotic freaks can dump a thousand tons of bombs on kids and call it self-defence
Posted by: ld | Dec 9 2023 18:53 utc | 56
Putin is intelligent and patriotic, a great leader for Russia but he has been the biggest fence sitter of all. Hear me out before yelling at me.
pq | Dec 9 2023 17:02 utc | 27
So many expect Russia to now be the self appointed policeman of the world. There is not an ethnic Russian minority in the Palestinians though many Russian zionists in Israel.
First in line to protect the ethnic Arabs is the Arab world similar to what Russia has done in Ukraine. Next in line to protect the muslim Palestinians is the Muslim world. Though on top of that heap should be the UN which is neutered by the US veto.
Palestinian government is not recognised by the UN so Palestine can invite Russia or China or any other state in for help as say Venezuela or Syria did.
Rather than Russia, it is Turkey and India I look at as the fly in the RoW ointment. Muslim Turkey and the muslim Organization of Turkic States continuing to supply Israel with large amounts of oil, and India as part of BRICS fully endorsing the zionist genocide of palestinians.
But the bottom line is that clowns like yourself expect Russia to become the self appointed policeman of the world.
US stragey no doubt is still to over extend Russia. Russia will constantly stay within its means with it eye constantly on the main goal which is the destruction of the US anglo Empire. The empire of lies. As Russia has stated, the Arab world must be United on what to do re Palestine before Russia can act any further. I assume Putin's recent vist to UAE and SA are connected to that.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2023 19:00 utc | 57
The Arab world... Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and the states lining the western edge of the Persian gulf - whats there? Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman...
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2023 19:04 utc | 58
@ Eighthman | Dec 9 2023 18:38 utc | 49
It will no doubt warm the cockles of your heart to think how “Israel” kills lots more Muslim women than the entire Muslim world does.
Posted by: malenkov | Dec 9 2023 19:13 utc | 59
David Cohen 33
The Messiah came with miracles, peace be upon him, and your rabbis conspired to kill him.
Your Last prophet came with the miracle if the Qur'an and your ancestors had settled in Madinah to greet him , peace and blessings be upon him, but when they saw he was an Arab , they tried to kill him with a boulder.
Today you want to kill all Christians and Muslims in Palestine, tomorrow your tyrant promised to extend this genocide to the entire Middle East.
Would you like us all to do a Masada Suicide? You broke your own deal , as described in Chapter Isra of the Qur'an.
First punished by the Babylonians, then by Rome.
Posted by: Giyane | Dec 9 2023 19:13 utc | 60
The challenge the David Cohen’s of the world have with their might-makes-right argument is that his argument also encourages the eventual destruction of the Jewish State - tragic
Posted by: Exile | Dec 9 2023 19:14 utc | 61
Posted by: David Cohen | Dec 9 2023 17:44 utc | 33
Mr. Cohen that arrogant attitude that Jews are God's Chosen People has, historically, got your tribe kicked out of over 80 countries over 3,000 years and caused endless sufferings for your people. .
The last time the Tribe was systematically pogromed was in Nazi Germany which was an awful event; and, justifiably, it allowed great sympathy such that the ROW, symbolized by a young UN in 1947, to proscribe 56% of Palestine to Jews and the balance to the native Palestinians .
This enormous benefit was not enough as the usurious Tribe is now attempting to get 100% of Palestine and if the rather aggressive Yinon plan is implemented the plan of Israel is to own all the land from the sea to the Euphrates.
This is a bridge too far.
Like a spoiled child Israel has become the ward of the City which directs the US to subsidize, weaponize, recognize Israel's depredations.
So far so good; on the other hand, from my POV, the City, because of the Saudi/Iran rapprochement, has now set up Israel as the 'straw man' which will be decimated in order to start WW3.
Be careful what you wish for.
Instead of sneering at us dumb goyim I suggest you do a 'hard think' as current events may bring an end to your Tribes deed to Promised Land.
Exile | Dec 9 2023 19:14 utc | 61
Like Australia, Israel will go down with the US empire of lies. Australia has now made its choice similar to many vassal states, and Israel has made its choice. Like Ukraine, all have chosen the losing side - the empire in the latter stages of hubris, decadence and debauchery.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2023 19:21 utc | 63
Ahenobarbus 14
Crooke is with non-Christian Western politics , which is as unhelpful as Zionism although different.
Christians and Muslims should not permit Non-Christian , Western politicians to represent their views, because they don't.
Posted by: Giyane | Dec 9 2023 16:45 utc | 24
That may be true, but I've never read him denouncing all of western civilization because of the crimes of the western ruling class.
If that's your opinion, so be it, but putting very extreme ideas in Crooke's mouth is bad form.
I imagine Crooke sees things as they are: western civilization is on the brink of collapse because of it's elite and their madness. This elite or ruling class is no more the representative of western civilization than they are socialists, environmentalists or anti racists, as they repeatedly claim.
To oppose all aspects of western civilization is absurd imo. Or to boil it down to some bits of folk wisdom: judge people by what they do not what they say about themselves and don't throw out the baby with the bathwater!
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 9 2023 19:26 utc | 64
Muslims commonly support beating or killing women who disobey, as with executions in soccer stadiums by the Taliban. I wish Israel or someone would set up sanctuary for Muslim women threatened with honor killing. I recall an execution of a young woman in Gaza for talking with a male alone- who turned out to be a close relative. Hamas reaction was Oops, our bad.
Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 9 2023 16:42 utc | 23
Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 9 2023 18:38 utc | 49
What happened between #23 and 49?
Dual personality ? Recognition of stupidity of the rant ?
Your Turkish grocer is a Muslim, in case you did not know. And you know so much what is "common" to Muslims as in your rant # 23.
Posted by: Joey | Dec 9 2023 19:31 utc | 65
Crooke is with non-Christian Western politics , which is as unhelpful as Zionism although different.
Christians and Muslims should not permit Non-Christian , Western politicians to represent their views, because they don't.
Posted by: Giyane | Dec 9 2023 16:45 utc | 24
Oh, and to lump Crooke in with Zionazis as "unhelpful" is just crazy. Like saying the poison and the actual antidote are both equally bad.
I get it. Watching this brutal genocide is awful. It's hard to think clearly sometimes with the overwhelming desire to immediately crush the Imperialists and the Zionazis. I feel that too, but in a fight of this magnitude, it's very important not to let the horrors steal your ability to think rationally.
Peace to you, Giyane. We will toast when the empire collapses and can no longer effectively carry out such atrocities!
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 9 2023 19:32 utc | 66
Crooke is with non-Christian Western politics , which is as unhelpful as Zionism although different.
Christians and Muslims should not permit Non-Christian , Western politicians to represent their views, because they don't.
Posted by: Giyane | Dec 9 2023 16:45 utc | 24
Christians are supporting butchering of tens of thousands of babies with the use of their tax dollars?
Posted by: cafe_con_leche3 | Dec 9 2023 19:32 utc | 67
Canuck 62
David Cohen's AI function here is to distract from USUKIS' declared colonisation of """" Greater Israel """".
AI isn't programmed to think, just to arrange garbage tastefully.
Posted by: Giyane | Dec 9 2023 19:35 utc | 68
BREAKING: Israel's Channel 12 reports that Netanyahu told Biden and Scholz, 'if you do not act against the Houthis, we will act militarily'.
https://x.com/spectatorindex/status/1733557857432580313?s=20
Israel very upset they might get to experience a similar siege that so readily exert on gaza
Posted by: Hankster | Dec 9 2023 19:47 utc | 69
Posted by: David Cohen | Dec 9 2023 17:44 utc | 33
Thank you so much David for your presentation of the semetic point of view. It reminds me of why I am antisemetic. You have made me an even prouder antisemite. Keep up the good work and try for a bigger audience.
Posted by: Chas | Dec 9 2023 19:49 utc | 70
@ Giyane | Dec 9 2023 19:35 utc | 68
Even if he were AI, I think it a mistake to regard him as such. There are so many real people who think exactly that way.
Posted by: malenkov | Dec 9 2023 19:50 utc | 71
Mr. Crooke is sympathetic to Palestinian concerns yet has influence to Western institutions such that he is the perfect type to use as a interlocutor rapprochement.
I understand the many posters here who don't consider anyone fit to negotiate for their side but their own people who are dedicated to the cause.
Sorry, naïve people, there has to be a 'coming together ' of centrists to establish any type of 'peace, ceasefire, treaty' between opposing poles. Otherwise it is war 24/7 which is, BTW, the Empire's desire.
Mr. Crooke is a candidate to conduct rational discussion for settlement.
Posted by: David Cohen | Dec 9 2023 17:44 utc | 33
Hey David, Next time you post, maybe you want to add some of the wisdom of the Talmud to strengthen your arguement. I found a few quotes which might help.
Moed Kattan 17a. If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.Sanhedrin 57a. When a Jew murders a Gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep.
Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God.
Baba Kamma 37b. Gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."
Yebamoth 98a. All Gentile children are animals.
Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.
Shalom!
Posted by: lex talionis | Dec 9 2023 19:56 utc | 73
"No wonder you are angy
no wonder you are cross
you just wanted santa claus
and the forskin you have lost
don't bother
I am sick of listening to their horseshit and I have lost my people skills
Posted by: ld | Dec 9 2023 18:40 utc |
id Obviously you are the angry one; through your own anger you synthesized, through a Freudian projection, the supposed anger of all the Jewish people.
Have you seen the IDF roughing up Orthodox Jews in the West Bank because they are against war? How does that fit with you 'idea'?
Do you not understand that Anglo/Zionists are the ones with their power center in London that focus on hate, on both sides, such you are a just mere slave to WEF propaganda?
I pity you; you have wonderful passion that is seriously misguided.
Looks like Yemen is getting control of the Red Sea and and Gulf of Aden and more ability to enforce a potential no-passthrough event with sea mines and missiles. It could potentially wreck the west's economy.
Posted by: unimperator | Dec 9 2023 20:03 utc | 75
Way too much of the above is crap. I got out of my every other day or so checking on Helmer and IndianPunchline over the last few weeks, Helmer had his hiatus for his book. Deep thanks to all who keep posting whenever either of them post something worthwhile. Al-Manar, Al-Mayadeen and on telegram the english Gaza Now and Eva K Bartlett are heavy on my reading.
CPT (they had those hostages in Iraq way back when) has been facilitating people to visit the West Bank, stay with Palestinians and walk with Palestinian children to school. It did not stop the armed young Zionist settlers from throwing rocks at 6 - 12 year old children, just fewer rocks and smaller. And then the visitors go back to say what they saw. They have been doing it for over 30 years.
It is a hard nut to break down the media walls of empire and militarism in the usOfa
Posted by: paxmark1 | Dec 9 2023 20:07 utc | 76
The Nation, with some real talk on Palestine's Islamic resistance...
Israel Is Losing this War
Western politicians and media like to fantasize that Hamas is an ISIS-style nihilistic cadre holding Palestinian society hostage; Hamas is, in fact, a multifaceted political movement rooted in the fabric and national aspirations of Palestinian society. It embodies a belief, grimly affirmed by decades of Palestinian experience, that armed resistance is central to the Palestinian liberation project because of the failures of the Oslo process and the intractable hostility of its adversary. And its influence and popularity have grown as Israel and its allies keep thwarting a peace process and other nonviolent strategies for pursuing Palestinian liberation.
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/israel-gaza-war/
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 9 2023 20:11 utc | 77
@ Hankster | Dec 9 2023 19:47 utc | 69
The result might be to force KSA to take a firm stand on the side it really wants to take: that of “Israel.”
Posted by: [email protected] | Dec 9 2023 20:12 utc | 78
BDS and all Likud supporting businesses everywhere. Vote with your pocketbook. Some surprising companies come up:
For example - Timberland Boots, Tschibo, Chanel, and Shell Oil a prime candidates for boycott.
Posted by: Exile | Dec 9 2023 15:34 utc | 8
Judging by their reaction to it they are terrified of it and see it as a real threat. It is therefore our responsibility to use it.
I would add McDonald's, Starbucks, PepsiCo, Ben & Jerry's, HP, Siemens, Airbnb, Intel among many others.
Feel free to repost and add more.
Www.bdsmovement.net
Posted by: Delhiliterally | Dec 9 2023 20:14 utc | 79
Apologies to anyone who might have the email address “[email protected]” — it isn’t mine, so please nobody spam it with Zionist hate mail. :-)
Posted by: malenkov | Dec 9 2023 20:16 utc | 80
Eighthman # 23, 49:
The fanaticism you observe in some Muslim countries which you then generalise to all Muslim countries usually turns out to be a reaction to Western (particularly British and French) colonial divide-and-rule policies and collective punishments.
In their colonies across Africa and Asia, the French favoured Christian groups and ignored non-Christian communities. Hence the economic disparities among different religious groups in the founding of independent Lebanon and Syria in the 1950s. In some parts of Africa, the Tutsi were favoured over the Hutu, laying the f foundation for future genocides in the Rwanda-Burundi-eastern DRC region. In many of their colonies also, the British also elevated some ethnoreligious groups above others, again for the purpose of dividing colonised peoples against one another.
In many of these societies, Muslims were often the poorest groups because they were descendants of converts running away from other religions (due to caste-based oppression or inability to pay jizya tax demanded by Muslim rulers of non-Muslims during economic downturns) and so their needs were often ignored by colonial powers. In most societies, even today, the poorest groups (whether Muslim or others, like First Nations) often have the highest levels of violence or ill treatment of women.
The fundamentalism you see in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia is a consequence of fanatical elements there associating with the Americans and British at some point in their history. The Americans aided fundamentalist warlords against a socialist govt in Afghanistan in the 1980s, setting the stage for the rise of the Taliban, and the British supported the rise of the Saud family (Wahhabist in religion) in the 1920s.
Honour killings are common across many societies, not just Muslim ones. I recall reading online somewhere that honour killings were still being carried out in Italy as recently as the 1970s. They still occur in India and not only among Muslims or poor communities there.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Dec 9 2023 20:25 utc | 81
Delhiliterally: No doubt the number of corporations that do not support the Zioterrorist entity approaches zero.
Posted by: malenkov | Dec 9 2023 20:26 utc | 82
Two months and two days.
A little bit besides everything else but I have to admit I'm annoyed by a few easily recognizable and disturbing pro-zionist narratives bobbing about in RT (more so) and Sputnik (somewhat less) and the use of what seems to be a very hollow excuse for inaction by pointing at the US.
Yeah everyone can blame Israel and the US while the genocide continues. Yes we all know the US are highly complicit and guilty, but so are you and we.
I don't believe such opportunistic blame-casting does anyone any good, it doesn't look good now nor will it in history, least of all for Russia.
Get moving or suffer the shame like the rest of humanity; you certainly do not get a free pass.
And this is in no way about "playing policeman" and trying to run the world by yourself and so on, instead it's about having some minimum decency when you are powerful and should be living up to all the fair words one has subscribed to by being a UN member and having signed up to such things as the human rights charter.
How awfully inconvenient that seems to be for nearly all.
So it is not that Russia is the only one that should "get going" (everyone should) but they've started throwing bricks in their own glass house and I'm not up for any heavy doses of Russian hypocrisy on top of US and Israeli hypocrisy. That's too much, far too much.
On the flip side: thank you Yemen, may you be extremely successful and may you inspire people everywhere to do what all the other nations are unwilling to do.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 9 2023 20:27 utc | 83
Posted by: BlockMan | Dec 9 2023 20:18 utc | 81
"I support the RIGHT of Russian-speakers living in Ukraine to live in peace, and the RIGHT of Jews living in Israel to live in peace."
I will correct that for you:
"I support the RIGHT of Russian-speakers living in Ukraine to live in peace, and the RIGHT of Jews living in Palestine who wish to live in peace with Muslim and Christian Palestinians.
Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Dec 9 2023 20:32 utc | 84
Posted by: Exile | Dec 9 2023 15:34 utc | 8
Judging by their reaction to it they are terrified of it and see it as a real threat. It is therefore our responsibility to use it.
I would add McDonald's, Starbucks, PepsiCo, Ben & Jerry's, HP, Siemens, Airbnb, Intel among many others.
Feel free to repost and add more.
Www.bdsmovement.net
------
Did some digging. PTC Creo CAD software is also likely being used to design Caterpillar Bulldozers. Need to verify though.
Posted by: moonofendor | Dec 9 2023 20:37 utc | 85
Canuck 62
David Cohen's AI function here is to distract from USUKIS' declared colonisation of """" Greater Israel """".
AI isn't programmed to think, just to arrange garbage tastefully.
Posted by: Giyane | Dec 9 2023 19:35 utc | 68
You are most likely correct. Regardless, bot or not bot I will argue truth as I see it.
Have a good evening, my friend.
Eighthman | Dec 9 2023 16:42 utc | 23
*** I wish Israel or someone would set up sanctuary for Muslim women threatened with honor killing. ***
Of course they would all be welcomed to live in Israel. Hindu ones as well?
Posted by: Cynic | Dec 9 2023 20:49 utc | 87
Cohen 33
The world must now understand that we cannot live with Israelis as neighbours.
Our existence is threatened, there is plenty of land in the world Israelis can move to.
Other places must accommodate them, there is no room for them in Palestine, or anywhere near civilised people.
Antarctica has much to commend it.
They can go there. Put the rabid animals where they can do no harm.
That may be tough on the penguins, but that's just the way it is.
Our bloodthirsty Zionist chums have now dropped well over 50,000 tons of bombs on Gaza.
The equivalent of 4 Hiroshima bombs.
About 49,000 tons of bombs supplied completely free, courtesy of Joe Taxpayer in the US.
The other 1,000 tons supplied completely free, courtesy of Joe Taxpayer in the US.
Having grabbed the whole of Palestine, our Zio buddies will now demand the whole of the region. All of Lebanon, Jordan and Syria. Huge chunks of Egypt, Turkey, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. They are already demanding South Lebanon again.
There will be no peace in the world till the Israelis are relocated to Antarctica.
We can set up a tent city for them in Antarctica, paid for AIPAC.
Not good news for the penguins, I grant you, but there it is.
Posted by: anon | Dec 9 2023 20:53 utc | 88
David Cohen | Dec 9 2023 17:44 utc | 33 ...
What an epic load of self aggrandising nonsense....
Go stuff your fantasy "deity" up your deranged arse, from whence it emanated.
Posted by: Cynic | Dec 9 2023 21:03 utc | 89
Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 9 2023 20:27 utc | 84
By international law definition, Palestine is a non state actor.
As I put in a comment some time ago, we are in return seeing kinetic action by 'non state actors' but they are of course backed by states.
The main course of non kinetic action appears to be in having the Palestinians recognized at the UN as a state. This is something that will not go away now as Israel/Palestine is center theater of this WWIII of the US Anglo empire vs the rest.
When the Yemen military were targeting Saudi UAE warships enforcing the blockade of Yemen, US sent in ships to destroy Yemen coastal radar. We are not seeing US response this time round so something has changed.
Hezbollah has been steadily destroying Israel border defenses and surveillance equipment but as yet virtually no response. US understands the forces behind the non state actors are too big of a bite to chew on. On top of those two groups, there are Syrian and Iraqi militias formed and redy to go but as yet have not entered the game. They I assume do not have the weapons technology, deep background/training ect of Hezbollah and North Yemen forces.
As for finger pointing first and foremost is US/UK. Israel is their baby, there foot in the door to Persian gulf oil. On the Palestinian side, the first to look at I would think is the westbank Palestinian so called authorities. Why don't those quislings have a well trained militia/military wing - launch strikes against Israel same as Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis? Within Palestine, there is not even a united front. Within the westbank the only resistance is ad hock individual or small group resistance.
Wherever one looks, faults can be found, fingers can be pointed which is the pastime of a great many armchair generals and armchair revolutionaries. Virtually every group can have a range of normal human faults and foibles as humans are not clones. What matters is overall strategy of the group and if it takes the normal numan faults into account and has workarounds for them.
Sole blame for this ongoing genocide is with the the Anglo American empire of lies. Anglo because UK is in a full and equal alliance with the US and the other three states are still British colonies with the 'democratically elected monarch of England' as their head of state.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2023 21:09 utc | 90
People must not allow themselves to be provoked by rabid Zionist genocidal filth like Nuttyyahoo, Shaked, and their ilk and the loudmouth hasbara shills on this site.
We should all acknowledge the thousands of admirable Jewish people at the forefront of calling out the Gaza Genocide for what it is, and the sterling work of outstanding figures such as Miko Peled, Medea Benjamin, Norman Finkelstein, Gabor and Aaron Mate, Max Blumenthal, Jeffrey Sachs, and many, many others.
Posted by: anon | Dec 9 2023 21:13 utc | 91
Muslims commonly support beating or killing women who disobey, as with executions in soccer stadiums by the Taliban. I wish Israel or someone would set up sanctuary for Muslim women threatened with honor killing. I recall an execution of a young woman in Gaza for talking with a male alone- who turned out to be a close relative. Hamas reaction was Oops, our bad.
Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 9 2023 16:42 utc | 23
These Muslims sound a lot like Christians and Jews.
As far as I'm concerned the whole benighted tree of kooky abrahamic cults needs to be uprooted from the humanity for us to proceed to the next plane of evolution.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 9 2023 21:19 utc | 92
Delhiliterally: No doubt the number of corporations that do not support the Zioterrorist entity approaches zero.
Posted by: malenkov | Dec 9 2023 20:26 utc | 83
Doesn't mean we shouldn't try. At least we can make a dent in the profits of the mass market dependent ones.
There have been some successes with western corporations pulling production out of the West Bank.
Posted by: Delhiliterally | Dec 9 2023 21:32 utc | 93
Do you not understand that Anglo/Zionists are the ones with their power center in London that focus on hate, on both sides, such you are a just mere slave to WEF propaganda?
I pity you; you have wonderful passion that is seriously misguided.
Posted by: canuck | Dec 9 2023 20:00 utc | 74
Oh My
Thank you for your endless assessments and criticisms of all us blind stumblebums who don't have a
clue.
keep up the good work, there a lot more folks here who were stupid till you came along.
signed the morally bamkrupt jew insulter
Posted by: ld | Dec 9 2023 21:35 utc | 94
Delhiliterally | Dec 9 2023 20:14 utc | 79
*** I would add ... Ben & Jerry's ... among many others.***
Maybe a bit unfair to include that one, as months ago B+J did make a boycott-protest against illegal Israeli "settlements", which is more than most other companies did.
Posted by: Cynic | Dec 9 2023 21:37 utc | 95
Cynic
They don't own the brand anymore. Iirc they even protested their own brand's involvement in the occupation.
Posted by: Delhiliterally | Dec 9 2023 21:43 utc | 96
For those adding to the list of brands boycotting, just paste an elongated list.
We should aim now to focus on supporting local smaller businesses
and corporations that are less likely to be supporting the Zionists than global multinationals .
At least it can make us feel like we are doing something instead of blowing off steam with fantasies here in the comments.
Posted by: Delhiliterally | Dec 9 2023 21:47 utc | 97
For those adding to the list of brands boycotting, just paste an elongated list.
We should aim now to focus on supporting local smaller businesses
and corporations that are less likely to be supporting the Zionists than global multinationals .
At least it can make us feel like we are doing something instead of blowing off steam with fantasies here in the comments.
Posted by: Delhiliterally | Dec 9 2023 21:47 utc | 98
For those adding to the list of brands boycotting, just paste an elongated list.
We should aim now to focus on supporting local smaller businesses
and corporations that are less likely to be supporting the Zionists than global multinationals .
At least it can make us feel like we are doing something instead of blowing off steam with fantasies here in the comments.
Posted by: Delhiliterally | Dec 9 2023 21:47 utc | 99
DunGroanin "No escaping the entertainment industrial complex."
Very spot on as I watch those about me. A massive influence operation.
A lot of good music came out of the US in times past. Black America and Vietnam war and aftermath but now all that, especially the last three decades, has been channeled into wokeness.
My hearing has never been able to pick up all the lyrics in music but there is something about the downfall of many a good boy in thgis one that I instantly thought of when you phrased "the entertainment industrial complex"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4bFqW_eu2I
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2023 21:56 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
I warmly recommend this article by Ila Pappe:
https://www.palestinechronicle.com/a-wall-and-a-watchtower-why-is-israel-failing-ilan-pappe/
I also am re-posting my latest post from the other thread:
After the expected debacle in the UN Security Council, and the cynical US reasons for refusing to support a ceasefire, it seems to me that each state has a duty to finally, and actually act to stop the collective death of the Palestinian population in Gaza and the crimes against those in the West Bank.
The UN system is paralyzed by the US and most of the international organisations have long been captured by the capitalist kleptocracy.
The Palestinians can not wait for the system to be changed. They are facing not only destruction by US/Zionist weapons, but death by starvation. There is no water, and no food coming in, according to todays reports. Public order is collapsing, as reported yesterday.
The world, human kind, is facing the most catastrophic event of recent history - deliberate starvation and military destruction of an entire people, the Palestinian nation.
Time is of the essence. States need to act now. Use all the levers that they individually possess in connection to, the by now rightly loathed, Israel, to arrest its abilities to continue starvation, the mass murder, indeed, the full blown genocide.
Food and water MUST be brought to the hungry and thirsty people of Gaza, and their relentless murder MUST be stopped. If the UN can't do it, and it can not, ALL responsibility lies with states individually.
We know the US and its Western co-criminals will not do anything human.
That leaves all the other states. They should stop calculating, and be brave. If not now, when?
Posted by: JB | Dec 9 2023 14:53 utc | 1