Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 03, 2023

Palestine Open Thread 2023-293

Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on December 3, 2023 at 14:12 UTC | Permalink

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https://english.almayadeen.net/articles/opinion/netanyahu-and-his-cabinet-are-taking--israel--to-biblical-ar

Alastair Crooke writes, "So, here comes the ‘new war’: A Hebraic civilizational war to establish a ‘new’ "Israel" on the "Land Of Israel" versus the emerging Islamic nationalism undergirded by civilizational (non-institutional) Islam.

Hamas -- indeed -- has shattered the paradigm. The "two-states notion" has slipped under the waves."

The only solution is a one state solution - Palestine without the Zionists.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Dec 3 2023 14:20 utc | 1

https://mondoweiss.net/2023/12/operation-al-aqsa-flood-day-57-not-an-inch-of-gaza-is-spared-by-israeli-strikes-after-truce-ends/

An update since the truce ended:

Deadly Israeli airstrikes kill hundreds in Gaza since end of truce The resumption of Israeli airstrikes on the Gaza Strip on Friday after a weeklong truce killed at least 193 Palestinians and wounded 652 in the first 24 hours, the Gaza Ministry of Health reported.

While the ministry has struggled to keep track of the death toll since mid-November due, in part, to a breakdown in communication with the northern Gaza Strip, it said on Saturday that its latest estimates stood at at 15,207 Palestinians killed and 40,752 wounded in the besieged enclave, adding that 70 percent of them were women and children, and 280 were medical personnel.


The ministry also said that Israeli forces had detained at least 31 health care workers, including Al-Shifa’ hospital director Mohammad Abu Salmiya.

Israeli bombs pummelled the entire Gaza Strip, as has been the case since the beginning of the onslaught — but at this point all pretenses of southern Gaza being a safe zone for civilians have been dropped, with the city of Khan Younis particularly targeted.

The official Palestinian Authority news agency, WAFA, reported strikes in the northern Gaza Strip in Beit Lahia and Jabalia refugee camp; in various neighborhoods of Gaza City, Deir al-Balah, Nuseirat refugee camp, and al-Mughraqa in the central Gaza Strip; and in the southern Gaza Strip areas of Rafah, Khan Younis, and Bani Suheila.

At midday on Saturday, WAFA reported that an airstrike on a residential building in Jabalia had killed at least 100 people. These casualties were not included in the Ministry of Health’s 193 toll from earlier in the day.

By Israeli forces’ own records, the military carried out at least 400 strikes in Gaza overnight, including 50 in the Khan Younis area alone. In a territory with an area of 365 square kilometers, this means more than one strike per square kilometer in the span of a day.

“The Israeli occupation continues to expand its targeting of civilians after the end of the truce and has left not an inch of the Gaza Strip without bombing,” Gaza Ministry of Health spokesperson Ashraf al-Qudra said in a statement on Saturday.

Among those killed by Israeli air strikes in Gaza in the past day are three Palestinian journalists, identified as Anadolu cameraman Montaser al-Sawaf, fellow videographer Abdullah Darwish, and journalist professor Adham Hassoneh. The Palestinian Journalists Syndicate said these latest deaths raised the number of Palestinian journalists and media workers killed since October 7 to 67.

Humanitarian agencies have continued to raise the alarm. “The situation is beyond crisis point,” UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Volker Türk said on Friday.

“Almost two months into the fighting, the children, women and men of Gaza are all terrified. They have nowhere safe to go and very little to survive on. They live surrounded by disease, destruction and death,” said Martin Griffiths, under-secretary-general for humanitarian affairs and emergency relief coordinator. “This is unacceptable.”

Balakrishnan Rajagopal, the United Nations Special Rapporteur on the right to adequate housing, meanwhile took to X (formerly Twitter) to call the Israeli army’s plan to divide the Gaza Strip into more than 2,200 zones a “grim game of turkey shoot”, and “a move from indiscriminate killing of civilians to organized killing.”


Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 3 2023 14:24 utc | 2

It was another September 11th all along.

The NYT is reporting, in a limited hangout, that DOI (Disease of Israel)
knew Hama's Oct 7th battle plan in 2022!

DOI knew and they pulled back the majority of their troops at the Gaza border
just in time to let it happened.

Then they enacted the Hannibal Doctrine so as to inflate the number of DOI civilians killed.
This all enabled their plan to ethnically cleanse or genocide the Palestinians.

They knew!

Posted by: librul | Dec 3 2023 14:42 utc | 3

US paying for Gazacide!

Posted by: paddy | Dec 3 2023 14:43 utc | 4

@Posted by: librul | Dec 3 2023 14:42 utc | 3

Here is a limited hangout article from the NYT.
If this is the limited hangout version
can you fill in the pieces as to what truth is being sheltered?

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

archive is here, if you prefer:
https://archive.is/peLT8

Posted by: librul | Dec 3 2023 14:45 utc | 5

@Posted by: librul | Dec 3 2023 14:45 utc | 5

Here is one blog's take on the NYT limited hangout.

Note, I don't believe the blog goes far enough (yet?) in filling in missing pieces
like this is just like September 11th.
https://armageddonprose.substack.com/p/vindicated-israeli-intelligence-knew

Posted by: librul | Dec 3 2023 14:48 utc | 6

British activists were arrested last week at a Palestine march for circulating a booklet titled: 'Zionism - A Racist Anti-Semitic and Reactionary Tool of Imperialism'

The booklet was banned and deemed as 'inciting racial hatred'.

It can be read for free at the following link:
https://shop.thecommunists.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Harpal-Brar-Zionism.pdf

The zionists appear to have the same attitude towards honest Jews; as ukrainian nazis do towards 'Russianized' east Ukrainians...

Posted by: Browser | Dec 3 2023 14:53 utc | 7

@Posted by: librul | Dec 3 2023 14:45 utc | 5

The NYT article has earmarks that are to be expected in a limited hangout.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

archive is here, if you prefer:
https://archive.is/peLT8


“Israeli officials obtained Hamas’s battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, emails and interviews show. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out.

Note the above from the article includes the excuse cover-up
one would expect from DOI (Disease of Israel) collaborators at the NYT.


The approximately 40-page document, which the Israeli authorities code-named “Jericho Wall,” outlined, point by point, exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1,200 people.

Led to the claims of "the deaths of about 1,200 people".
Or, I would rewrite it this way, "Led to the claims of the deaths of about 1,200 DOI soldiers and civilians at the hands of the Hannibal Directive. PLUS led to the deaths of thousands upon thousands of Palestinian civilians." [Palestinian live barely exist to these NYT typists.]

The translated document, which was reviewed by The New York Times, did not set a date for the attack, but described a methodical assault designed to overwhelm the fortifications around the Gaza Strip, take over Israeli cities and storm key military bases, including a division headquarters.

Should be, "the *version* of the translated document reviewed by the NYT, was censored by Mossad so as not to show it provided intelligence on Hamas timelines."


The plan also included details about the location and size of Israeli military forces, communication hubs and other sensitive information, raising questions about how Hamas gathered its intelligence and whether there were leaks inside the Israeli security establishment.

"Raising BIG questions about whether this was an inside job."

Posted by: librul | Dec 3 2023 15:17 utc | 8

Hamas daily SitRep

Claimed to have destroyed a 60 man group of IDF conscripts among other actions

https://english.almanar.com.lb/1993081

Posted by: Exile | Dec 3 2023 15:18 utc | 9

Lifted from Crooke's latest, this sentence "A poll published last Friday by the Israeli Democratic Institute reported that 90% of the public fully support the "annihilation of Hamas"" has little meaning. Depending on how the polling question was asked, it may be understood as "are you a supporter of Hamas?".
https://english.almayadeen.net/articles/opinion/netanyahu-and-his-cabinet-are-taking--israel--to-biblical-ar

It is possible too that some people, as in the West, have been so brainwashed by TV that they do not make a difference between a conflict between regular armies and guerilla warfare.

Posted by: Tom | Dec 3 2023 15:25 utc | 10

this group: Shut it Down for Palestine

a formal global movement by regular people are coordinating to defeat government inaction on Israel.
they are demanding a permanent end to the attacks

This is very encouraging
https://www.shutitdown4palestine.org/

video
https://twitter.com/i/status/1729916822516842718

Posted by: ld | Dec 3 2023 15:27 utc | 11

Middle East eye reports :

Israeli authorities marked the home of Al-Aqsa Mosque's imam for demolition on Sunday.

According to local media, Israeli forces stormed the residential building in occupied East Jerusalem, which houses several Palestinian families along with imam Ekrima Sabri's family.

Residents were told to leave the house ahead of an imminent demolition.

Posted by: Exile | Dec 3 2023 15:38 utc | 12

If you ever doubted or were indoctrinated into believing that highly educated, civilized, western people were more than capable of committing the most Gross atrocities in the history of the world; it's 2023, look to Gaza today.Your taxes AT work killing defenseless people. No money for medical or homelessness but always lots for killing.

Posted by: Bob | Dec 3 2023 16:09 utc | 13

Morning "good news" report:

https://southfront.press/british-ship-hit-by-rocket-yemen-reports/

It's only a matter of time before they sink one. Go Houthis!

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Dec 3 2023 16:29 utc | 14

Haaretz claims Hamas hides amongst civilians, uses them as human shields, and the following answers back. Killing civilians is a Zio strategy to pressure Hamas:


https://news.antiwar.com/2023/11/30/report-details-how-israel-intentionally-targets-civilians-in-gaza/

Posted by: botete | Dec 3 2023 16:30 utc | 15

Though the holocaust burnt offerings to the Tribal WarGod against the poor but proud people of Palestinian Gaza has once again gone into high gear; the resistance forces are taking their toll against the invaders. Those intruders are softies compared with their Sabra predecessors. Their casualty levels will cause much weeping, wailing and rending of garments back in their land of Occupation.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 3 2023 16:34 utc | 16

The Houthi do their bit for global carbon reduction:

A British cargo ship is believed to have been hit by rocket fire while in the Red Sea, maritime security company Ambrey said on December 3


“A British Bahamas-flagged bulk carrier was reportedly attacked by rocket fire while crossing the Red Sea, approximately 34.5 kilometers west-northwest of Mocha, Yemen,” Ambrey said in a statement. “The bulk carrier was reportedly hit by a rocket and the crew retreated to the citadel.”

Well, more than a bit in fact, more than the entire Cop 28 attendee list combined.

Would some kind soul in the know link a graph of shipping insurance premiums over the last 2 weeks up to today?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2023 16:43 utc | 17


Happy Sunday, Barflies. Appreciate all the comments and links as usual.

What has become strikingly obvious is how Israel lies and lies, whether from strength when it is savage and merciless or in weakness with it is pathetic in its eternal victimhood.

If the US and its vassals are the Empire of Lies, Israel must surely be its beating heart. However, the soul that occupies the beast is global capital - those who own, ran and benefited from imperialism over the past few centuries, and who shape shifted there colonies to the virtual neocolonialism post WW-2.

I hope Putin and Xi understand this. Though Western hegemony is weakening and Zionism may be on its last legs, the Imperial Beast must not be allowed to escape.

Posted by: Moses22 | Dec 3 2023 16:43 utc | 18

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Dec 3 2023 16:29 utc | 14

Darnit.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2023 16:44 utc | 19

In one of the previous articles petergrfstrm | Dec 3 2023 9:40 utc | 258 had commented about

Thierry Meyssans two recent articles about Israel- Hamas collaboration seem pertinent. He doesnt suggest that the footsoldiers were in on it but there are other parties and MB never was anything but an asset for the angloamerican empire. No matter how Erdogan himself likes to see it.

Meyssan has also written informative info about that aspect in his book Before our very eyes fake wars big lies from 9/11 to Donald Trump(2019)

This was most intriguing as on UNZ a few years ago there was a discussion about how one of the Arab Israeli Wars had been complete fiction. It was agreed before hand by Egypt and Israel about splitting up certain territory as well as the progress of the war. Israel Shamir, who used to write prolifically on UNZ before his stroke, had fought on the Israeli side in the special forces I think it was and had lost some comrades. He was horrified to learn that the Israeli troops and the Egyptian troops had climbed into each other while the generals knew exactly what the end result was to be and had allowed casualties to occur, and even given orders allowing casualties to occur, just to aid in the pretense that a war had happened. This was one of the Arab Israeli wars, the others might have been genuine.

Then ld | Dec 3 2023 14:29 utc | 302 posted a link about how Erdogan is supplying 40% of Israel's oil

https://twitter.com/i/status/1731275910144278888

So all is not what it seems, the troops on the ground don't know the full story and neither do us couch commentators. Maybe we'll never know the full story.

Posted by: gT | Dec 3 2023 16:45 utc | 20

Darnit.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2023 16:44 utc | 19

No need to feel bad if I just happened to beat you to the punch with the link. Your editorial comment had me almost coughing up my coffee on the keyboard. Carbon reduction, indeed!

Let's hope the Houthis continue their streak of doing their best to reduce the carbon footprint of Western capitalists!

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Dec 3 2023 16:50 utc | 21

Christmas in Satellite City

Time to celebrate the birth
of he who died for our salvation
with holidays and mirth
plus genocide and starvation

If there was a Jesus
he'd be turning in his grave
to see the blackened hearts of those
whose souls he died to save

No pity for the mothers
whose aching arms embrace
the limp and broken bodies
of children wantonly erased

When it's time to meet your maker
what excuse could you provide
for allowing this to happen
with your silence you abide

WIP

Posted by: ld | Dec 3 2023 16:56 utc | 22

AnsarAllah seems to have eaten its wheaties today:

DD Geopolitics
@DD_Geopolitics
40m
🇺🇸/🇾🇪 The Yemeni Red Sea attack, what we know so far:

– A Bahamas-flagged commercial vessel, possibly linked to the U.K. or Israel was struck by a projectile in the Red Sea, possibly a missile.

– An additional cargo vessel has been struck by two suicide drones, causing a large fire on deck.

– The U.S. Navy Arleigh Burke/Class destroyer, USS Carney, responded to a distress call of a commercial vessel, and while responding, came under attack from drones and missiles.

What is the Pentagon going to do?

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 3 2023 16:58 utc | 23

US warship, commercial ships under attack in Red Sea, says Pentagon

Starting a war with AnsarAllah will not help shipping get through Bab al Mandab.

This will put pressure on other false supporters of Palestine if not responded to, on the other hand.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 3 2023 17:06 utc | 24

omg

this is hard to see

https://twitter.com/i/status/1731334255580713080

Posted by: ld | Dec 3 2023 17:10 utc | 25

What is the Pentagon going to do?

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 3 2023 16:58 utc | 23

Beg for a cool trillion in funding to "combat rising challenges to freedom in the world's shipping lanes and keep the seas safe for democracy".

Man, that decades long GWOT really worked a treat didn't it?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2023 17:19 utc | 26

Posted by: ld | Dec 3 2023 16:56 utc | 22

This is excellent, keep it up!

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2023 17:20 utc | 27

Christmas in Satellite City - Diolch am y geiriau. Campus. With gratitude on this Advent Sunday. Does ID know who is WIP?

Posted by: Geraint ap Iorwerth | Dec 3 2023 17:25 utc | 28

In direct support for Israel's homicidal rampage, the UK has confirmed it will "conduct surveillance flights over the Eastern Mediterranean, including operating in airspace over Israel and Gaza." These reconnaissance missions will pass information directly to the IDF.

UK spokespersons claim these efforts are solely for purposes of "hostage rescue activity", although there are no known or identified British hostages detained by Hamas.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/02/uk-surveillance-aircraft-to-search-for-hamas-hostage-sites-in-israel-and-gaza

Posted by: jayc | Dec 3 2023 17:26 utc | 29

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2023 17:20 utc | 27

Thank you Arch
I weep thorugh every syllable
unfortunately the fodder is neverending

I pray for the day when my poems make people laff again

Posted by: ld | Dec 3 2023 17:28 utc | 30

Posted by: jayc | Dec 3 2023 17:26 utc | 29

They are getting desperate, is what is happening. Desperate for a "success". Bombing kids in public is not doing it.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 3 2023 17:28 utc | 31

Bemildred | Dec 3 2023 16:58 utc | 23

"What is the Pentagon going to do?"

I think you mean "what is the Beltway going to do?"

The straits of Bab-el-Mandeb which separate Yemen form the Arabian peninsula is 16 miles wide. According to Wikipedia, "The Bab-el-Mandeb acts as a strategic link between the Indian Ocean and the Mediterranean Sea via the Red Sea and the Suez Canal."
Ships passing through there are, obviously, vulnerable to attack.

If the USS Carney is indeed operating in that strait, then,I think, she is the proverbial sitting duck.

Posted by: Johnny Dollar | Dec 3 2023 17:32 utc | 32

Man, that decades long GWOT really worked a treat didn't it?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2023 17:19 utc | 26

Yeah, "who could have predicted this?", don't get me started on that. If it were not for the ongoing genocide, I could crack a smile. I was reading 20 years ago on a site about genocide about the ongoing process in Israel, and here we are today.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 3 2023 17:32 utc | 33

If the USS Carney is indeed operating in that strait, then,I think, she is the proverbial sitting duck.

Posted by: Johnny Dollar | Dec 3 2023 17:32 utc | 32

Thank you for your comment, I quite agree. I hope they get all those pricks off of Socotra out of this too. Expel them all.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 3 2023 17:37 utc | 34

Posted by: gT | Dec 3 2023 16:45 utc | 20

Meyssen has been proven right that Israel knew about the attack all along as stated in the recent NYT article that everyone is now talking about. I debated Ron Unz on this point, as he stated that it was a conspiracy theory that Israel. Arch also called Meyssan a conspiracy theorist that he ignores when I first presented the articles. By now the term conspiracy theorist has been so thoroughly discredited that I become suspicious of anyone’s motives that reach for that cudgel.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Dec 3 2023 17:46 utc | 35

I'd posted a link in the previous thread talking about the attack on the USS Liberty. I'd encountered it in an effort to vet a claim that the Russians aere standing by in case there was a request for help. This story was essentially debunked in that article (Pravda). BUT! I also ran across something that I wasn't aware of and that I suspect many here also might not been aware of. There was literally something lurkimg "below".

This supports my understanding that the Russians ARE in all this, we just can't see them.

The Russians Were Coming: The Soviet Military Threat in the 1967 Six-Day War

https://ciaotest.cc.columbia.edu/olj/meria/meria00_gii01.html

I think there ia somerhing out there titled "The Man Who Was to Destroy Israel".

Posted by: Seer | Dec 3 2023 17:53 utc | 36

Sorry cutoff sentence. Ron stated that anyone who thought Israel would be willing to endure the ignoble defeat on Oct 7 is a conspiracy theorist.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Dec 3 2023 17:54 utc | 37

@1

YES! "PALESTINE WITHOUT THE ZIONISTS!"

Posted by: lindaj | Dec 3 2023 17:55 utc | 38

Seeing some reports where the pentagon is saying US warship came under attack in Red Sea. Possibly the Carney. Anybody know anything??

Posted by: Ozark Grandpa | Dec 3 2023 17:55 utc | 39

https://new.thecradle.co/articles/border-surveillance-footage-from-7-october-disappears-israeli-officers”>Border Surveillance Footage Oct 7 disappears by “invisible hand”

Posted by: Stonedar | Dec 3 2023 17:57 utc | 40

Israeli forces and Hezbollah traded fire across the Israel-Lebanon border on Sunday for the third consecutive day and Israel said several of its soldiers were hurt.

The Israeli military said its soldiers were "lightly injured" when an anti-tank missile fired from Lebanon hit a vehicle in the Beit Hillel area of northern Israel.

Eleven people — eight soldiers and three civilians — were wounded by Hezbollah fire in the area of Beit Hillel, army radio reported

Israel, Hezbollah Trade Fire Across Border

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 3 2023 17:57 utc | 41

Sorry I see someone upthread already mentioned that RedSea happenings. I wasn't up on the conversation...

Posted by: Ozark Grandpa | Dec 3 2023 17:58 utc | 42

SecDef Austin just said that Israel risks "strategic defeat" if it conducts operations in Gaza as it has.

He's correct. However, he only sees part of the reasons why this is true.

He mentions the civilian population as the "center of gravity" and that doing this to them drives them into the enemy, building "more insecurity, more rage, and more despair." True.

However, especially for Israel, opinion in other countries is also a center of gravity. Without support from the US and friends it rallies to them, they are lost. Yet their conduct builds strong emotions against them. Since it is less personal threat, it is less insecurity and far more disgust. Disgust is a strong and lasting emotion, one of the human basic emotions.

I for example am now completely disgusted by Israel, probably beyond anything ever changing my mind about that.

Posted by: Mark Thomason | Dec 3 2023 18:01 utc | 43

From "conspiracy theory" to "conspiracy fact".

There are a lot more conspiracy facts out there than theories.

Not sure why but "conspiracy fact" —only the words— makes me smile a little :)

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Dec 3 2023 18:02 utc | 44

@ Turk 152 | Dec 3 2023 17:46 utc | 35

Additionally, we have (energetically suppressed) testimony of freed Israeli hostages, starting with 85-year-old Yocheved Lifshitz, who exchanged a "shalom" handshake with her captor as a respectful good-bye, who said the people of her kibbutz had been offered as "scapegoats." Sacrificed, in my reading, to motivate the Palestinian Holocaust. Freed hostages universally testify to decent, humane treatment at the hands of Hamas. This message is totally unacceptable, as is their memory of IDF helicopters and tanks causing most of the civilian casualties on October 7th.

We hear nearly nothing from them. A sign of severely silenced times.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 3 2023 18:03 utc | 45


some of the near innumerable UN resolutions which the zionist state has either rejected or never respected. a thread below from war correspondent E. Magnier, who has done some homework

israel should/will soon be cancelled by the International Community.
may take a while, for sure, but still.....

https://twitter.com/ejmalrai/status/1713404605638312153

1948
December 11: Resolution 194: establishes Conciliation Commission; protection of and free access to Jerusalem and other Holy Places; Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or property damage which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.

1949
December 9: Resolution 303(IV): International Regime for Jerusalem.
December 10: Resolution 356: Jerusalem.

1967
July 4: Resolution 2253 (ES-V): Condemns Israel's measures to change the status of Jerusalem as invalid.

1968
December 19: Resolution 2443: Establishes the Special Committee to Investigate Israeli Practices Affecting the Human Rights of the Palestinian People.

1969
December 10: Resolution 2535: UNRWA Report. "Reaffirms" the "inalienable rights" of the Palestinian people and requests the Security Council to take "effective measures" to force implementation of previous UN resolutions.

1970:
November 4: Resolution 2628: Urges the speedy implementation of UN Security Council Resolution 242 and recognizes that "respect for the rights of the Palestinians is an indisputable element in the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East"......

Resolution 471: " ... 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".
Resolution 476: " ... 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'". The altering of the status of Jerusalem constitutes as a flagrant violation of the 4th Geneva Convention.

https://twitter.com/ejmalrai/status/1713413172902670759
Resolution 2334 (23 December 2016) called for an end to Israeli settlement building


AND of special note, perhaps, FROM 1974:

November 29: Resolution 3246: Affirms the legitimacy of armed resistance by oppressed peoples in pursuit of the right to self-determination and condemns governments which do not support that right.


Posted by: michaelj72 | Dec 3 2023 18:19 utc | 46

I for example am now completely disgusted by Israel, probably beyond anything ever changing my mind about that.
@ Mark Thomason | Dec 3 2023 18:01 utc | 43

How many of us see USA in the same disgusting boat -- "beyond anything ever changing my mind"? I, for one, see no daylight whatsoever between USA and Israel. Even the godforsaken British have demonstrated more self-respect, as an outraged polity, than have US Americans.

Alastair Crooke keeps hammering on an eschatological theme wrt the mood of Jewish Israelis. I don't want to believe it when he points to evidence of a broad pro-genocide consensus among them, but Crooke is not the only one. I don't want to believe in the existence of a parallel pro-genocide consensus among my fellow US Americans either. I discipline myself to follow where the evidence leads, rather than limiting eligible evidence to healthy signs.

What evidence do I have that ordinary US Americans have been thoroughly prepared to comply and collude with genocide? He's in my wallet: Mister Jackson, grinning from the center of every $20 bill disbursed from the ATM.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 3 2023 18:23 utc | 47

Sirens in Golan Heights

https://nitter.net/WarMonitors/status/1731373626803286108#m

Posted by: Seer | Dec 3 2023 18:24 utc | 48

SecDef Austin just said that Israel risks "strategic defeat" if it conducts operations in Gaza as it has.

He's correct. However, he only sees part of the reasons why this is true.

He mentions the civilian population as the "center of gravity" and that doing this to them drives them into the enemy, building "more insecurity, more rage, and more despair." True.

However, especially for Israel, opinion in other countries is also a center of gravity. Without support from the US and friends it rallies to them, they are lost. Yet their conduct builds strong emotions against them. Since it is less personal threat, it is less insecurity and far more disgust. Disgust is a strong and lasting emotion, one of the human basic emotions.

I for example am now completely disgusted by Israel, probably beyond anything ever changing my mind about that.

Posted by: Mark Thomason | Dec 3 2023 18:01 utc | 43

In a conventional COIN campaign that would be correct. However genocidal warfare turns the problem on its head by physically annihilating the population, without which the resistance forces will wither. Normally this is not possible due to political consideration but Israel due to its special status and connections to western leadership can provide enough, if barely, legitimacy for such operation. Given that western establishments are largely protest/election proof and have a massive scope for ramping up repression the question becomes: how many countries can USA/NATO afford to wage vernichtungskrieg against to provide cover to it if necessary?
Is suspect even Iran alone might be too much but then again no one would like to be on the receiving end; it takes plenty of guts and nothing to lose for that.

Posted by: Satepestage | Dec 3 2023 18:35 utc | 49

unsure if it's allowed, lowkey video

https://youtu.be/LliKxwn2KDw

Posted by: polarbear4 | Dec 3 2023 18:45 utc | 50

Oddities of the agitprop machine, here in USA. (Not at all recommended: I watch ABC Nightly News, while I can stand it, so that you don't have to.)

There's a very twisted posture taken up lately by the same clowns who kept repeating "no daylight" like a sacred mantra two weeks ago: Biden, Blinken, Austen. Mondoweiss sees (a Nixonian term) plausible deniability:

https://mondoweiss.net/2023/12/biden-works-to-create-plausible-deniability-as-he-backs-israels-assault-on-gaza/

They've even dispatched poor Kamala to issue similar, entirely forgettable squeaks, for what it's worth. That woman brings to mind a song from the musical Chicago:

Cellophane, Mr. Cellophane shoulda been my name
Mr. Cellophane 'cause you can look right through me
Walk right by me and never know I'm there

Anyhow, back to the agitprop machine, which is intelligently viewed as state-sponsored media. They've lately, quite lately, injected a note of videographic sympathy for besieged Palestinians. It becomes quite an ordeal to see so many young, shredded Palestinian faces every day. I don't understand what they think they're up to, in this.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 3 2023 18:53 utc | 51

A long list of UN resolutions that were systematically ignored! It is high time the general assembly suspends Israeli membership. (They can suspend by a qualified majority but not terminate it.) Right before the independence (14 May 1948) Israel had pledged to the UN to seek "a peaceful resolution" for the fixation of the border and in exchange for that engagement got its independence. Immediately after that the Nakba was in full swing...

Posted by: Teraspol | Dec 3 2023 19:13 utc | 52

Extraordinary cognitive dissonance in this headline:

US says Israel 'making an effort' to minimise civilian deaths as death toll soars
https://www.euronews.com/2023/12/03/israel-hamas-war-israel-widens-evacuation-orders-as-offensive-shifts-to-southern-gaza

"The White House has said they believe Israel is "making efforts" to minimise civilian casualties in Gaza... "We think they have been receptive to our messages about trying to minimise civilian casualties," White House National Security Council spokesman John Kirby told ABC. The Israeli army has resumed its offensive in northern Gaza "in a smaller and more precise way", he added, noting that over the past two days, Israel had published a map online where civilians could find refuge and flee the fighting. “There aren't many modern militaries that would do that,” Kirby continued. “They are making an effort.”

Posted by: jayc | Dec 3 2023 19:38 utc | 54

In the current Covert Action John Spritzler writes:

"The purpose of this article is to create unity instead of the current animosity between the good and decent people who identify as “pro-Israel” and the good and decent people who identify as “pro-Palestine.”

"How? By demonstrating that the PURPOSE of Israeli government violence against Palestinians—including one of its openly declared purposes of enlarging Israel geographically while making the Palestinian population in it be as small as possible—is NOT, as Israeli leaders falsely claim, to make Jews safe but, on the contrary, to enrichen Jewish billionaires and facilitate their economic and political control of working class Israeli Jews..."
https://covertactionmagazine.com/2023/11/27/israels-government-attacks-ordinary-jews-as-well-as-palestinians/?mc_cid=277ae0fb58&mc_eid=f5d74d7021

Posted by: bevin | Dec 3 2023 19:43 utc | 55

It was another September 11th all along.

Posted by: librul | Dec 3 2023 14:42 utc | 3

Well, yeah... Netanyahoo told us that on Oct 7. I think it was on Oct 8th that Egypt told us it had warned MOSSAD.
Well before Oct 7 it was clear that Netanyahoo was on his way to jail if he didn't pull something out of his ass- and voila, the 'terrorist' organization he created commits a 'surprise' atrocity just in time! Now Bibi and co. can exterminate the Palestinians, and once Gaza is cleansed, Netanyahoo will be bulletproof. The hero that established Greater Israel! He'll be king of Israel for life.

Posted by: Honzo | Dec 3 2023 19:44 utc | 56

1948
December 11: Resolution 194: establishes Conciliation Commission; protection of and free access to Jerusalem and other Holy Places; Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or property damage which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.

Comment : Imagine Israeli citizens worldwide being taxed do pay reparations with 70 years of interest - billionaires such as Larry Ellison for example.

Posted by: Exile | Dec 3 2023 19:47 utc | 57

Mark Thomason | Dec 3 2023 18:01 utc | 43
I for example am now completely disgusted by Israel, probably beyond anything ever changing my mind about that.

As well as the US political and religious establishment. My disgust has no bounds

Posted by: circumspect | Dec 3 2023 19:56 utc | 58

Egypt's al Ahram reported this item on Sunday morning
9:45 Israeli forces stormed the house of Al-Aqsa Mosque preacher Sheikh Ikrimah Sabri in the Al-Sawana neighborhood in occupied Jerusalem, Al Jazeera reported.

A London-based Arabic network has also exposed more US double standards on their support.
https://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/58/1262/513349/War-on-Gaza/War-on-Gaza/AlAraby-channel-exposes-Pentagon;s-%E2%80%98false-statemen.aspx

They (USUKIS) are all waiting for Hezbollah or Arab countries to step in because they have no end game.

Posted by: Minaa | Dec 3 2023 19:57 utc | 59

"...The straits of Bab-el-Mandeb which separate Yemen from the Arabian peninsula is 16 miles wide..."

No Johnny Dollar: Yemen is in the Arabian peninsula. The straits are between Yemen on the east and Eritrea and Djibouti both to the west.
The finest coffee in the world comes from the Ibb governorate in the hills above Mocha the Yemeni port in question.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 3 2023 19:59 utc | 60

Minaa | Dec 3 2023 19:57 utc | 59

The house is to be demolished!

Posted by: bevin | Dec 3 2023 20:00 utc | 61

I came here to post that link, bevin. Good article.

Posted by: trachys | Dec 3 2023 20:00 utc | 62

Any news of the “1000 Boat Flotilla” lately?
Seems to have vanished.

Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 3 2023 20:14 utc | 63

zionists have never needed a pretext to bomb Palestine. This is the main reason why the 'September 11' theories are implausible.

Even before 7 Oct. this was already one of the deadliest years in Palestine, in the West Bank.

That Palestinians live and breathe, and resist, is sufficient pretext.

Posted by: Browser | Dec 3 2023 20:17 utc | 64

"The only solution is a one state solution - Palestine without the Zionists."

Correct, which is why Israel is not going to stop until Hamas is TOTALLY destroyed.

Posted by: BlockMan | Dec 3 2023 20:17 utc | 65

Well the next question is whether this LIHOP went 'according to plan'...

Given its exposure of the Hannibal Doctrine, and its current LIHOP exposure, and the IDF admission that Galilee could not be defended against Hezbollah now, and loss of so many IDF vehicles and unspoken number of troops to the point there's murmurs of serious troop pushback, and massive global protests resurrecting the Two-State Solution and pushing back openly against Zionist censure, and the sinking the Abraham Accords, and disrupted shipping and raised insurance rates, and fleeing citizens while economy is tied up in knots, and on and on... I am going out on a limb and guessing it is not going 'according to plan'.

Seems like a well executed military raid Turtle has caught a Hare nodding off and shrugging when it saw the racing positions switched. Now after its loss the Hare is hopping mad while the Turtle turtles. It'd be pathetic if it weren't so horrific to the non-combatants.

Posted by: titmouse | Dec 3 2023 20:19 utc | 66

IDF claims 800 tunnel entrances discovered of which 500 destroyed.

Posted by: Exile | Dec 3 2023 20:23 utc | 67

If NYT is claiming “Israel knew”, complete with a hijacker passport in the rubble…what we know 100% is
a) that the debate is being shifted away from the IOF’s murder of hundreds of Israelis on Oct 7
b) providing Israel with the excuse to say Hamas is more sophisticated than we thought so we REALLY need to kill more babies.

Like how the dumb discussions about tunnels distracted sheeple from the fact Israel bombed, laid siege to, and destroyed EVERY hospital in N. Gaza.

This NYT article is cementing into the sheeple’s minds that the IOF was in no way responsible for many if not most of the civilian deaths. Again, at a time genocide is happening every minute, such articles only serve to distract from the key issue.

The issue of whether the level of detailed knowledge of LIHOP /MIHOP is 25%, 50%, 75% or 100% is IRRELEVANT. What is more important but swept under the rug is whether the Mass Hannibal directive was a product of confusion or deliberately ordered so as to maximize casualties to be reallocated to Hamas. I am pretty sure Israelis know the answer. But their hatred of Palestinians is way higher than their hatred of Bibi.

I roll my eyes at trying to frame “Israel knew” / LIHOP / MIHOP / false flag as some sort of simplistic Yes / No box to be checked off.

EVERY SINGLE DAY for the past decade Israel tortures someone in its prisons and every single day Hamas is not sitting idle. Israel will be getting a huge flow of info, most of it unreliable. Add hubris. I am sure Hamas is also feeding fake info into their systems. Ignoring reports about watching Hamas training is also highly plausible. These explanations are not mutually exclusive!

IF Bibi the Butcher of Gaza deliberately allowed a bit of LIHOP or MIHOP he got more than he bargained for: while Israeli civilian deaths are OK for Bibi, taking soldiers hostage is definitely NOT. There is NO WAY that was deliberately allowed.

No Israeli leader has ever needed an excuse to “mow the lawn”. It has been done many times before with no excuse. It seems that many people here are new to the conflict and have forgotten what was happening in September 2023.

Bibi the Butcher showed a Palestine-free map at the UN. Around that same time, Israel was getting ready to invade Jenin. If you listen to interviews with Palestinians and people who actually know something (rather than the usual suspects) there was a feeling for the last six months that Israel was planning something big, at a time when Bibi the Butcher was fighting for his political survival.

Posted by: pq | Dec 3 2023 20:24 utc | 68

IDF claims 800 tunnel entrances discovered of which 500 destroyed.

Posted by: Exile | Dec 3 2023 20:23 utc | 67

There are going to be a lot of blocked pit latrines in Gaza by the time those idiots are done ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2023 20:26 utc | 69

Browser | Dec 3 2023 20:17 utc | 64

#ZioNaziFreePalestine

Posted by: Neil MacLeod | Dec 3 2023 20:27 utc | 70

Posted by: Trubind1 | Dec 3 2023 20:14 utc | 63

my hopes are fading. Erdogan seems to specialize in sitting on the fence.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 3 2023 20:28 utc | 71

Correct, which is why Israel is not going to stop until Hamas is TOTALLY destroyed.

Posted by: BlockMan | Dec 3 2023 20:17 utc | 65

The IDF has no means to tell Hamas from the general population.

What israhell is in fact intending is genocide.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2023 20:28 utc | 72

Posted by: librul | Dec 3 2023 14:42 utc | 3

It was another September 11th all along.

The NYT is reporting, in a limited hangout, that DOI (Disease of Israel) knew Hama's Oct 7th battle plan in 2022!

I don't know what it means but I find it significant that there is so much extensive anti-Israel press, not to mention demonstrations, in the West. It is almost certainly organized but again to what am end I cannot tell.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 3 2023 20:31 utc | 73

zionists have never needed a pretext to bomb Palestine. This is the main reason why the 'September 11' theories are implausible.

Posted by: Browser | Dec 3 2023 20:17 utc | 64

Bingo.

Moreover, any Palestinian resistance movement would eventually be stuck with the collusion label because there is always a degree of cooperative relationship between the jailer and the jailed.

So theories about collusion between Hamas and mossad are all illusions based on misguided sophistry.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2023 20:32 utc | 74

bevin | Dec 3 2023 19:59 utc | 60

The finest coffee in the world comes from the Ibb governorate in the hills above Mocha the Yemeni port in question

I don't do best, but I all but concur. To complete the geography lesson, though, we should add that the coffee from the other side of the straits is also out of sight.

Bottom line...

the richest coffee comes from the poorest countries.

Posted by: john | Dec 3 2023 20:43 utc | 75

Erdogan seems to specialize in sitting on the fence.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 3 2023 20:28 utc | 71

One can only hope he ends up impaled on one at some point ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2023 20:47 utc | 76

Mark Thomason 43

SecDef Austin is shifting blame onto Israel for US takeover of the Middle East.

But as with Ukraine, no amount of camouflage can conceal that this is a US psyops which , like Ukraine , will be defeated.

No amount of killing Palestinians will deflect Putin and Xi's attention from the psyops presented by Hot Dog Netanyahu, the redrawing of the map of the Middle East.

It's a US plan, conceived, planned and coordinated by the US . No amount of Muslim Brotherhood chilli sauce, British mustard or Hamas tomatoe ketchup can conceal the fact that the hot dog has less nutrition or taste than cardboard.

This is another nothingburger excuse for mindless slaughter for keeping us people in our place. Gladio terror. End of.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 3 2023 20:51 utc | 77

Meyssan often writes fiction. I still remember when a couple of years ago he wrote very authoritatively, after some sort of pedestrian meeting between Russian and US officials, that what happened was in fact huge, a new Yalta: The US recognized their defeat in Syria, and they arrived at an arrangement with Russia, and China was left out bc it didn’t fight in Syria, etc. He wrote that as if he was there, or seen irrefutable documents. Pure fiction ofc, and Ukraine happened, and now Gaza. After that, I really can’t take Meyssan seriously. I don’t believe he has any info about this huge behind the scenes collusion that he is talking about. He just makes it up, IMO.

As for the leaks about the Israelis knew, right now there is a big Cover your Ass operation happening: Netanyahu wants to deflect his responsibility on the intelligence services. Plus the huge failure of Oct 7 is bad for the surveillance and security business which matters a lot for Israel. Rather than recognize that their systems can be overcome by ingenious guerillas, it is better to allude to dark and murky forces and intentions.

It seems impossible that Israel would have intentionally jeopardized its main asset: deterrence and the aura of invincibility of its army and intelligence, which failed miserably. The Israelis are right now genociding right and left bc they want to restore the deterrence they lost on Oct. 7.


Posted by: Zina -onz | Dec 3 2023 20:56 utc | 78

If you listen to interviews with Palestinians and people who actually know something (rather than the usual suspects) there was a feeling for the last six months that Israel was planning something big, at a time when Bibi the Butcher was fighting for his political survival.

Posted by: pq | Dec 3 2023 20:24 utc | 68

Thanks for the explanation and I agree. Intuitively this genocide is also too spectacular and devastating to Israel’s victim reputation to be a mere rage fest. For instance the destruction of Iraq was always the plan, as a hammer seeks a nail. Whether Bin Laden was real or fake misses the point.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Dec 3 2023 21:28 utc | 79

What matters: a final warning

Israel's bombardment of southern Gaza is the “worst bombardment of the war right now”, Unicef spokesperson James Elder said on Sunday.

“I am seeing massive child casualties," Elder posted on X (Twitter).

"We have a final warning to save children; and our collective conscience."

https://www.middleeasteye.net/live/israel-palestine-war-gaza-truce-hamas-live

Posted by: JB | Dec 3 2023 21:35 utc | 80

Zina-onz 78

The job of the literary critic is to evaluate Fiction. Wherever BoJo goes, whatever he touches is fiction. Until finally he has become valueless.
Covid was invented purely to break taboos about mrna vaccines. Novichok. Brexit. Ukraine and now this Masada masala , self-inflicted psyops .

The fictional aspect of Voltairenet is just without trying to sound ridiculous to convey the fictional white poodle-turds of CIA MI6.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 3 2023 21:47 utc | 81

Iran deputy minister of defense had a conversation with Tasnim news agency today, in which he announced that Iran has acquired Dehlavie ATGM with new range of 12 kilometers and has also tested them on field and is working on higher ranges.

In this regard, news was published today that the Islamic resistance of Lebanon has targeted and destroyed a Zionist personnel carrier deep in the occupied territories. In this attack, 8 IDF soldiers along with three settlers were announed as injured.

Considering that the said carrier was targeted from a distance of more than 8 km, it should be said that the Islamic resistance in Lebanon has sent a very important message to the Zionists, and that they already possess new Dehlavie with range higher than 10 km. Targeting a moving carrier from such long distance requires a lot of skills and training.

Posted by: Hankster | Dec 3 2023 21:52 utc | 82

"zionists have never needed a pretext to bomb Palestine"

Right. But the tax payers of the Western countries who finance Israel with their money need one.

Posted by: Apollyon | Dec 3 2023 21:54 utc | 83

john | Dec 3 2023 20:43 utc | 75
You're right. I shouldn't do 'best' either. The qat is said to be great too.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 3 2023 21:54 utc | 84

Austin ... Israel must win. Repeat words we have seen the outcome of ukraine

Posted by: Hankster | Dec 3 2023 22:02 utc | 85

https://x.com/revolutionaryem/status/1731432035489579517?s=46&t=iQi7fB-06urmjYsPOJ0ITw

“A senior source in the AlQassam brigades to Al Jazeera:

‘A 70% withdrawal by ‘Israeli’ forces from the north of the Gaza Strip due to the failure of their operations and as a result of the resistance’s strikes.”

Posted by: Gengar | Dec 3 2023 22:04 utc | 86

The busted flush of CIA lies about its tapeworms Azov Nazism, Zionism and Islamism , isn't a busted flush of fake journalism. It's a busted flush of CIA sewage and deadly biological toxins.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 3 2023 22:19 utc | 87

The finest coffee in the world comes from the Ibb governorate in the hills above Mocha the Yemeni port in question.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 3 2023 19:59 utc | 60

No, it not the 'best coffee in the world. By price and consensus taste the finest coffee is located in the Ivory Coast. This coffee bean is eaten by an elephant than then excreted out-apparently the elephant's stomach enzymes bring a subtle taste to the coffee.

It costs $2,000 per kilogram.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Ivory_Coffee#:~:text=Black%20Ivory%20Coffee%20is%20a,breaks%20down%20the%20coffee's%20protein.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 3 2023 22:19 utc | 88

Ansarallah 4 - Zionist Apartheid regime 0

1-0 Galaxy Leader
2-0 Unity Explorer
3-0 Number Nine
4-0 Port of Eilat

https://tn.ai/2999650
The report of the Hebrew group of the Tasnim News Agency, the economic and Hebrew-language newspaper Globes announced in a report that the naval war waged by the Yemeni armed forces against Israel has caused severe losses to the port of Eilat, and for this reason, the Ministry of Industry is considering the closure of this port. .

This media expert in economic issues quoted Gideon Galbar, the director of the port, as saying: "The threat of the Houthis has affected all ships, whether they are passing through the Mediterranean Sea or intending to come from other regions, even the Far East, such as Japan, India, and China." have also been affected by these threats.

According to this Hebrew-language media, imports through this port have decreased in an unprecedented way and shipping companies prefer Haifa port to Eilat port.

Shipping companies report a huge increase in the costs of transporting goods to (Occupied Palestine) and emphasize that these costs have increased sharply due to the dangers that threaten ships bound for Israel through the Red Sea after the war in the Gaza Strip last October.

Quoting the report of Fritos Company, Globes wrote: The cost of transporting goods from China to Ashdod port has increased by 9% first and by 14% in the last 2 weeks.

The company emphasized: confiscating and targeting Israeli ships in the Red Sea area will force these ships to change their route and this will greatly increase transportation costs, which will also cause great losses to Israel's economy and trade. especially since many of Israel's export goods have remained in the port.

This media pointed out that out of the 105 thousand cars that were supposed to enter Israel, only 37 to 47 thousand arrived at the port, despite the fact that last year the port of Eilat's share of this import was more than 90 thousand cars.
---------------------------

Postscript Fiction: Our independent correspondent present in the Red Sea Stadium reports that after the 4th goal scored by Yemeni team, masses started to chant: "No 5 Musts! No 3 demands! China close Haifa Now!"

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 3 2023 22:22 utc | 89

As for the leaks about the Israelis knew, right now there is a big Cover your Ass operation happening: Netanyahu wants to deflect his responsibility on the intelligence services. Plus the huge failure of Oct 7 is bad for the surveillance and security business which matters a lot for Israel. Rather than recognize that their systems can be overcome by ingenious guerillas, it is better to allude to dark and murky forces and intentions.

It seems impossible that Israel would have intentionally jeopardized its main asset: deterrence and the aura of invincibility of its army and intelligence, which failed miserably. The Israelis are right now genociding right and left bc they want to restore the deterrence they lost on Oct. 7.

Posted by: Zina -onz | Dec 3 2023 20:56 utc | 78

I agree with your analysis. Its better for business to blame foggy conspiracies than admit surveillance and supervisory incompetence.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 3 2023 22:25 utc | 90

No Israeli leader has ever needed an excuse to “mow the lawn”. It has been done many times before with no excuse. It seems that many people here are new to the conflict and have forgotten what was happening in September 2023.

Bibi the Butcher showed a Palestine-free map at the UN. Around that same time, Israel was getting ready to invade Jenin. If you listen to interviews with Palestinians and people who actually know something (rather than the usual suspects) there was a feeling for the last six months that Israel was planning something big, at a time when Bibi the Butcher was fighting for his political survival.

Posted by: pq | Dec 3 2023 20:24 utc | 68

Thank you for the sane comment. People, especially conspiracy prone American's toss around the term "false flag" far too loosely.
And I agree that the aim of this round of "revelations" including that Hammas is paid off by Israel, was for the purpose of distraction and division yet again.
As you said the possibility that Israel knew about the attack beforehand does not equate with Hamas being their puppet.
However there is a far greater possibility that those who are claiming Israel knew in advance, Including Egypt, are all lying because they actually ARE puppets of the US and Israel.

Why do people still believe anything the liars say?

Posted by: K | Dec 3 2023 22:25 utc | 91

zionists have never needed a pretext to bomb Palestine. This is the main reason why the 'September 11' theories are implausible.

Posted by: Browser | Dec 3 2023 20:17 utc | 64

A) They are not just bombing Gaza, the aim is complete ethnic cleansing. Even many Israelis oppose this, there had to be an event to excite their anger.
B) There have always been one pretext after another since Hamas came to power. Netanyahoo and his Zionist cronies created Hamas, regularly boast that it is deeply infiltrated and they have complete surveillance over the Gaza.
C) The actions of the IDF from Oct7 onward have been completely consistent with the public aims of the Zionist since 1948 (and before), and with published military doctrine.
D) Oct 7 serves Netanyahoo's personal agenda perfectly- he was on his way out of power and into jail. Now he's not, and if he can follow through on the Final Solution he'll be a hero. At least until the Muslim world decides to take the risk and completely destroy Israel.

How is it possible, given these facts, that Oct 7 was not a false flag? The suggestion that it was not is an attempt to obfuscate the deliberate nature of the genocide taking place before our eyes, make us think it's the result of stupidity and panic, and protect Israel from the full load of moral approbation they deserve- and the material consequences that flow from it. It's hasbara.

Posted by: Honzo | Dec 3 2023 22:40 utc | 92

Posted by: Apollyon | Dec 3 2023 21:54 utc | 83

##################

Very little of American spending is funded through taxation. A lot of it is debt expansion.

Which is the stake that the Global South can drive into the heart of the vampire with a new currency for settling global trade.

USAID and the NED will shrink quickly without the budgets they rely on to perpetrate their agendas.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 3 2023 22:41 utc | 93

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 3 2023 22:41 utc | 93

yes

Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 3 2023 22:57 utc | 94

NATO countries are using Ukrainians to attack Russian economic interests. Russia must use Palestinians and Yemenis to return the favor.

All NATO countries and other US military allies heavily rely on sea freight. They need a dose of their own medicine. Israel Palestine war is the perfect opportunity.

Posted by: Jason | Dec 3 2023 23:01 utc | 95

Blue Dotterel | Dec 3 2023 14:20 utc | 1--

Good to see more people looking for and linking to Crooke's Saturday column! This little excerpt is very important:

For the Israeli public, there can be no stability until "Hamas is eradicated."

Indeed, there will be no stability within Occupied Palestine for as long as it's inhabited by Zionists. And well before Hamas gets "eradicated," the Zionist economy will implode--that's what Blinken and Austin are referring to when they say Netanyahu only has weeks. Being a trickster doesn't make one a good manager. Congress is tied in knots over funding and The Debt as polling indicates few in the Empire want to fund the Zionists anymore than they want to fund the UkieNazis. Netanyahu will be forced to say austerity must become policy if Hamas is to be defeated. And someone in the War Cabinet said the war would last at least one year. I doubt that person looked to see how many shekels are in the treasury. Yemen's interdiction of Zionist shipping is crucial as that loads additional unanticipated costs onto the Zionist economy. I highly suggest reading "How Yemen is inflating Israel's war cost" and Kit Klarenberg's earlier article that it links to.

Occupied Palestine is already destabilized and instability will only increase. Add to that the inability of the IOF to engage Hamas while constantly being attritted, and public ire will soon turn as all the above worsens. Meanwhile, on the settlement front, every proposition's beginning with the already UN-established--International Law based--Two State Solution, whose most important remaining point is that it sets forth the need for a just solution for Palestinians, which is one of Xi's Musts/Demands. The historical precedent I see as the solution is post-WW2 Germany that was divided into four different control sections, although with Palestine I see only two, and it will certainly take the use of force and years of coercion to make the solution work. Essentially, Palestine is cut into two halves--All the land South of a line from the Northeastern corner of Gaza to Jerusalem including all the West Bank becomes Palestine and the remainder becomes Israel. Yes, that gives more than 50% to Palestinians as they more than deserve at least that much in the form of reparations. Yes, to make that reality, force would need to be employed; however, force will need to be used to enforce ANY solution. And that force will need to be employed for several generations at minimum. Even a one state solution will require the use of force to defeat the Zionist military. Humanity must face the unpalatable truth that the Zionists are bloodthirsty barbarians who don't belong in the ranks of civil humans--in that sense they are clearly chosen: Chosen not to belong. The same was once agreed regarding Nazis, although it's now very clear some were lying in 1945 and they weren't Russians.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 3 2023 23:02 utc | 96

...
B) There have always been one pretext after another since Hamas came to power. Netanyahoo and his Zionist cronies created Hamas, regularly boast that it is deeply infiltrated and they have complete surveillance over the Gaza.
...
Posted by: Honzo | Dec 3 2023 22:40 utc | 92

Well, maybe...
But my recollection is that Hamas was elected (to the Knesset in 2006?) as the official elected representatives of Gaza. The Jews then arrested and jailed ALL of those new reps. It's hard to believe that these elected Gaza reps went along with a plan to lock them up indefinitely without charge or trial, is it not?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 3 2023 23:12 utc | 97

Added to:
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 3 2023 23:12 utc | 97

Also, it's 'interesting' that the Jews didn't arrest West Bank's reps for suspiciously obvious reasons.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 3 2023 23:22 utc | 98

Netanyahu and his ilk ought to reflect on the German Nazi Concentration Camp of the Warsaw Ghetto and the eventual vengeful German destruction of the entire Polish City.
When the Butcher's bill came due, Poland was given all the lands of former Prussia, excepting Kaliningrad.
What a reckless gamble to believe the fickle and bankrupt USA will always be ready and able to keep Israel as a Protectorate. Israel's bill does not preclude the end of Israel.

Posted by: kupkee | Dec 3 2023 23:26 utc | 99

The October 18 interview, published by Politico on Saturday, is thought possibly to be Kissinger’s last. It includes the following:

I am in favor of a peaceful outcome. I don’t see a peaceful outcome with Hamas involved in the conflict. I would favor negotiations between the Arab world and Israel. I do not see, especially after these events, that direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians are very fruitful.

A formal peace doesn’t guarantee a lasting peace. The difficulty of the two-state solution is shown by the experience of Hamas. Gaza was made quasi-independent by [former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel] Sharon in order to test the possibility of a two-state solution. It has led, in fact, to a much more complex situation. It has become so much worse in the last two years than it has been in 2005. So the two-state solution doesn’t guarantee that what we saw in the last weeks won’t happen again.

I believe the West Bank should be put under Jordanian control rather than aim for a two-state solution which leaves one of the two territories determined to overthrow Israel. Egypt has moved closer to the Arab side, so Israel will have a very difficult time going forward. I hope that at the end of it there will be a negotiation, as I had the privilege to conduct at the end of the Yom Kippur War. At that time, Israel was stronger relative to the surrounding powers. Nowadays, it requires a greater involvement of America to prevent a continuation of the conflict.

https://www.breitbart.com/middle-east/2023/12/03/kissingers-final-interview-forget-a-palestinian-state-let-jordan-rule/

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 3 2023 23:53 utc | 100

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