fnord @65: “Historical societies are replete not just with crossdressing, but of full blown transgenderism, with societies on every continent sporting third genders, cross-sex individuals being socially accepted as such…”
Bullshit. We’ve discussed this before, remember? Thai “kathoey” flirting with me and other Thai people warning me “They are not really women!”
Thai people absolutely know that “lady-boys” (never “lady-men”… interesting) are not female. It is seen as impolite in many societies to dwell on gross physical disfigurements of unfortunate individuals. Likewise, it is polite to overlook serious emotional and mental disabilities, so long as they are harmless to others. A man believing himself to be a woman is a serious mental disorder, but so long as it doesn’t harm anyone else, why make a fuss? Unfortunately, in “western” societies as of late, the mental illness has escaped the minds of the individuals and infected the legal, political, judicial, and academic systems.
Efforts to legislate delusion is a major bad. It is a society killer.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 8 2023 0:59 utc | 103

@91, newbie. Yeah, sometimes open threads become a tangle. Personally, I’m tired of hearing about transgenders. I say, knock yourself out if that’s your thing. Don’t expect me to embrace your decision. Shirley, there’s more important things going on.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Dec 8 2023 1:11 utc | 105

Tom_Q_Collins @101:
Let’s start with the one example that is too many: Trans freak anally rapes minor girl in school restroom.
By the way, the school system transferred the delusional transgender rapist freak to another school, where HE raped another girl in the girl’s restroom again.
Aside: Did you know that calling the transgender rapist a “he” can get you legally sanctioned, “cancelled”, and blacklisted from employment in many parts of the West now? Many tens of thousands of people have been sanctioned this way already.
Note: Louden County is where CIA headquarters (Langley) is. Doubtless just a coincidence and not because the CIA is staffed 100% with truly fucked up people, who fuck up their children too.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 8 2023 1:16 utc | 107

Tom_Q_Collins @101: “…and then changing the subject to athletic competitions, which I fully acknowledge is a problem – or at the very least, problematic.”
Driving real women from women’s sports isn’t a major problem? What a misogynist turd you are! It is not a change of subject. It very much is the subject.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 8 2023 1:27 utc | 109

Thanks, leaf! | Dec 7 2023 19:24 utc | 49 — Even to me, that was a very interesting tete a tete. I was following Richard Wolfe back in Occupy days, so seeing the two together was fascinating. I guess we all are going to have to read Marx Vols 2 and 3! (Well, maybe not all of us, just those who want to be the world’s future economists.)

Posted by: juliania | Dec 8 2023 1:42 utc | 111

According to the Oz version of BBC News at 10, Austria’s ex-Foreign Minister has defected to Russia because she thinks Putin is one the few grown-ups on the world stage. Expressing this opinion helped to make her unpopular in Austria. Putin has greeted her with great, and public, enthusiasm.
Also, has any barfly wrapped his/her head around Rishi Sunak’s plan to deport cross-channel refugees to Rwanda? If so, I’d appreciate a brief summary of the ‘logic’ behind it. If any.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 8 2023 2:08 utc | 113

re: Bemildred | Dec 7 2023 16:08 utc | 27
Who said “No idea what Maduro intends to do, but his timing is excellent. He looks to be proactive, appointing governors, threatening the oil companies, and setting up adminstrative structures, at least in theory.
We were just relaxing our grip on VZ to get some needed heavy oil out of them.
It will be interesting to see how Latin America sees the issue, when the dust settles a bit.”
I hope that most americans in the region see the Maduro move for what it is. If Venezuela gets the control of the area that international tribunals have found in favour of but never delivered, the bulk of the return will be invested in fellow humans, especially those recently made Venezuelan, if ‘Guyana’ holds the illegally colonised region the returns will go to shareholders in englander energy corporations, very few of whom are americans of the region, indigenous or otherwise.
PS I too dislike this thread being wasted on ‘identity politics’ which lie at the heart of the culture wars. Those are designed in the offices of parochial flacks eager to try and create a discernible difference between the two wings of amerika’s governing uniparty. Only imbeciles and charlatans choose to involve themselves in such nonsense.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 8 2023 2:45 utc | 115

PS I too dislike this thread being wasted on ‘identity politics’ which lie at the heart of the culture wars. Those are designed in the offices of parochial flacks eager to try and create a discernible difference between the two wings of amerika’s governing uniparty. Only imbeciles and charlatans choose to involve themselves in such nonsense.
Posted by: Debsisdead | Dec 8 2023 2:45 utc | 115
Agreed. Real identities require real work. They don’t come ready to wear, with a Logo and background music. Good people are where you find them.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 8 2023 3:27 utc | 117

Thanks for the coverage of the new picture within the Big Picture opening in South America. It’s not just Argentina; Bolivia would’ve been a better BRICS+ choice. IMO, Lula’s recommendation was a sop to Brazil’s elite.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 4:08 utc | 119

New movie for the “trans” crowd.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt30216176/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztdxTrKC5sg

Posted by: Thurl | Dec 8 2023 5:13 utc | 121

@ wagelaborer | Dec 8 2023 1:24 utc | 108
thanks… well, i’m a man and i think violence against women is a real problem too, so there are some of us men who do see it as such too..
@ Debsisdead | Dec 8 2023 2:45 utc | 115 // @ Bemildred | Dec 8 2023 3:27 utc | 117
where i live – canada – this identity politics is a really big problem.. lbgtq is like the new religion and it is being adopted by our gov’t and also a lot of large corporations too.. yes, it’s madness, but a conversation needs to happen, as opposed to being censored, shut down or cancelled.. i respect you both a lot, but i personally feel this is a conversation that needs to happen which is why it is probably happening here.. check out the video i linked @ 72 if you have some time.. i would be curious how you both view it..

Posted by: james | Dec 8 2023 7:56 utc | 123

this identity politics is a really big problem..
Posted by: james | Dec 8 2023 7:56 utc | 123
—
Identity Politics provides a trivial shallow answer to the important question “Can culture transcend race”?
IMHO it is a reach-around to replace the negative power of racism.

Posted by: too scents | Dec 8 2023 8:40 utc | 125

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 8 2023 4:13 utc | 120
The Austrians haven’t the first clue about money. Experts at overlaying gold standard, fixed exchange rate thinking on today’s money.
Rohan grey put Bob Murphy the voice of Mises in America over his knee and spanked his arse.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=piQBTy6R0VA&pp=ygUVUm9oYW4gZ3JleSBib2IgbXV0cGh5
All the misconceptions about money on this website, that I have had to debunk over the last year, came from the Austrian crowd and Bob Murphy.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 8 2023 9:12 utc | 127

Our European parliament has solved the energy problems in one fell swoop, all that remains is merely practical implementation.

MEPs successfully negotiated that electric charging pools for cars with a minimum 400 kW output will have to be deployed at least every 60 km along core TEN-T network routes by 2026, with the network’s power output increasing to 600 kW by 2028. For trucks and buses, charging stations have to be provided every 120 km. These stations should be installed on half of main EU roads by 2028 and with a 1400kW to 2800 kW power output depending on the road. EU countries have to ensure that hydrogen refuelling stations along core TEN-T network will be deployed at least every 200 km by 2031.

Marie-Antoinette famously said: “If the people have no bread, let them eat cake.”
Todays’ European Parliament says: “If the people have no money to fill up the tank, let them buy an electric car.”

Posted by: Passerby | Dec 8 2023 9:41 utc | 129

Real Economic News!

Anglo American Plans Deep Mine Production Cuts to Save Cash
. Miner lowers copper, PGM and iron targets for next two years
. Company is seeking to save an additional $500 million
Anglo American Plc will make deep production cuts for almost all the commodities it mines in the next few years in a bid to slash costs amid logistical and operational snarls at its operations. Its shares slumped.
Anglo’s recently appointed Chief Executive Officer Duncan Wanblad has faced a tough start to his tenure. He stepped into the role with most commodity prices at a record, but they have declined since then. The company’s portfolio has also been hampered by issues from extreme weather to a breakdown in crucial infrastructure in South Africa.
The miner’s shares slid as much as 7.3% in London, the most since March. The stock has lost about a third of its value this year.
While most of the commodities Anglo mines are currently in surplus amid weak demand from China and sluggish economies elsewhere, the scale of the company’s production cuts will likely add to expected shortages of some materials going forward.
Anglo on Friday said it will produce less copper, an essential material needed to decarbonize the global economy. Most analysts and mining executives see a looming shortage of the metal with few new mines on the horizon.
It lowered its 2024 output target for copper to between 730,000 tons and 790,000 tons, from as much as 1 million tons, essentially removing the equivalent of a large copper mine from global supply. Production will fall even more in 2025, before starting to rise again the following year.
…

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-08/anglo-american-plans-deep-production-cuts-to-save-cash-next-year

Deathrattle in the futures market.

Posted by: too scents | Dec 8 2023 10:48 utc | 131

@91, newbie. Yeah, sometimes open threads become a tangle. Personally, I’m tired of hearing about transgenders. I say, knock yourself out if that’s your thing. Don’t expect me to embrace your decision. Shirley, there’s more important things going on.
Posted by: Immaculate deception | Dec 8 2023 1:11 utc | 105
That’s why I prefered if we were discussing the way UK labour continues determined to sink its country.
BRUSSELS — The U.K. Labour Party wants a much closer relationship with the EU, France and Germany on defense, if it takes power after a general election in 2024.
Shadow Defense Secretary John Healey told POLITICO that Labour will upend the Tories’ defense and security policy, by aiming to deepen military cooperation around the EU.
“We would look to put in place systematic cooperation and a defense and security pact with the European Union,” Healey said following a visit to NATO headquarters in Brussels on Thursday. “We would begin work directly after the election.”

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 8 2023 11:23 utc | 133

@ Newbie | Dec 8 2023 11:28 utc | 133
—
FAA tail number lookup of the November registered Bell 412 “N840MK” brings up a recently “held” record. Last officially owned by Bell Textron of Texas.
https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/2023/12/08/clipboard.png?auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=1920
https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberInquiry

Posted by: too scents | Dec 8 2023 11:46 utc | 135

Excellent summary of the Essequiba conflict so far:
https://x.com/georgegalloway/status/1733082773446164817?s=20

Posted by: Hamburger | Dec 8 2023 12:40 utc | 137

FAA tail number lookup of the November registered Bell 412 “N840MK” brings up a recently “held” record. Last officially owned by Bell Textron of Texas.
https://www.thedrive.com/uploads/2023/12/08/clipboard.png?auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=1920
https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Search/NNumberInquiry
Posted by: too scents | Dec 8 2023 11:46 utc | 134
That’s what I love in MOA, tangential information
Guess for the US they can do whatever they like in “latrine America” not even the need to sheep dip anything, if it’s not even registered to the pentagon it’s probably a langley asset.

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 8 2023 12:49 utc | 139

Wow, one in 100,000 incidence. Fewer than one hundred cases ever observed. That is way below orphan disease status. In fact, the incidence is miniscule to the point of being non-existent.
Posted by: john brewster | Dec 7 2023 21:56 utc | 74
Hey, it’s still enough to make Soros facade organisations for them in every country in the world, and probably to even find one or two actual specimens to mk-ultra, “compromise” at gunpoint, or offer a few millions, and place in power somewhere. Maybe a slop bucket like Stoltenberg or Tedros falls apart one day and there’s a need for a tortured ghoul to head nato, who, UN or something.

Posted by: Michael A | Dec 8 2023 14:02 utc | 141

Alright, here we go again!
@ Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 7 2023 22:40 utc | 81

I note that he ignores the plight of women in prisons, rape centers, school locker rooms, sports, and showers, ignores the thought and speech policing coming down from the ruling class onto ordinary people, male and female, ignores the erasing of women from written and spoken speech and policies, ignores the violence dished out onto women who understand biological reality….all to blather about historical cross-dressing, and the ability of estrogen to widen the hips and narrow the shoulders of men who ingest it (just as wrong as everything else he says.)

Transgender women are more likely to be raped in prison than they are to rape anyone. That is a fact. Transgender women are also sub-mediocre athletes on average. That is another fact. I don’t really know what you’re talking about with “speech policing of ordinary people,” because I get called “tranny” and have to deal with people using incorrect pronouns plenty. There are no criminal penalties for misgendering anyone, anywhere, but in most US states you can legally kill a transgender woman if you sleep with her and feel disgust after (this is a defense which has worked in the past, you can’t make stuff like this up). The preference for gender neutral language has long been a feminist, not merely a transfeminist, goal. I’m not really sure what “violence” TERFs think they’re subject to. Trans women are subject to much greater violence and now the actions of the state (especially in the UK) where so-called feminists and reactionaries are in league to reify sex and gender roles against libertarian and free transgender expression.

fnord illustrated perfectly what robinthehood pointed out earlier, “Woman, per the new identity doctrines, has been reduced to an orifice and behavioral mannerisms”, when he claims woman is “a social grouping, based on social relations between individuals who have certain things in common, and who society trains and expects to behave in certain ways.”

Anyone can read what I said and what you wrote there and see that these are not equivalent statements at all, so thank you for being so flagrantly dishonest. But to reduce “womanhood” to your sex chromosomes is to really reduce women to just an orifice (note: I mention that transgender women can have penises, so no, not a reduction to the orifice). This is mirrored in TERF “art” that heavily features the womb and ovaries.
I want to thank Tom_Q_Collins @ 83 for being a regular voice of reason in these comments. I don’t know what kind of brain worms infect so many other bar flies on this question. Transgender people are more likely to be victims than they are to be victimizers, and so-called “radical” feminists who think transgender women are just men (because they really do reduce “manhood” and “womanhood” to what equipment you’re born with), are operating on not only transphobic but blatantly androphobic ways of thinking. You would think that TERFs who think everyone with a penis is a rapist in waiting would be more repugnant to the mostly male commenters here who otherwise go on and on about how bad identity politics is. Have you all forgotten that feminism is the Ur-form of identity politics in the western world? And do the TERFs know that women are actually more likely to sexually assault each other in prison than men are?

Posted by: fnord | Dec 8 2023 16:06 utc | 143

Across Europe, thanks in part to the treachery of social democrats and the enthusiasm with which fascism’s ‘useful idiots’ espouse conspiracy theories (there is no other word for them) rooted in neo-liberal anti-social-ism a new generation of fascists are being propelled to power by the capitalists who always sponsor anti-democratic extremist ways out of crisis.
The nest generation of Hitlers, Mussolinis, Horthas, Francos, Salazars and Petains will be wearing suits, maybe jeans and sneakers rather than uniformed shirts and jackboots. But they will add up to the same thing.
This article in Weekly Worker, looks at the comparisons being mae between Le Pen and Meloni.
“…The endless laundering of Islamophobic talking points by the current government; the intense use of state force to crush protestors, even by a so-called liberal president; and the use of Nato and EU loyalism to set the boundaries of legitimate politics – all serve to normalise and mainstream Le Pen and undermine the call to rally against the “barbarian at the gates”.
“Her ‘mainstreaming’ is not so much a matter of her changing the bad ideas that militants have in their heads, but of the adaption to her by bourgeois political forces who want to ensure that RN rule is not a shock to French and European capital. The ‘social anti-Semitism’ of her economic discourse; militants’ or candidates’ use of conspiracy theories and connections with further-right subcultures; or indeed, leftwing attempts to reassert the anti-fascist unity of decades past – all represent increasingly less important obstacles to her rise.”
https://weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1470/whitewashing-marine-le-pen/

Posted by: bevin | Dec 8 2023 16:18 utc | 145

“Forget the repetitive and pedantic Echo Chamber.”
Posted by: waynorinorway | Dec 8 2023 10:01 utc | 129
Yeah, like you have debated anything I have had to say. At least I am right. You wouldn’t debate me anyway as You wouldn’t know where to start. Have you understood anything I have posted. Probably not.
You are so confused I will give you a gentle reminder. Here is your hero Richard Wolff talking about how what he was teaching in university was wrong. It was Stephanie Kelton who pointed Richard in the right direction. He admits it here.
https://www.rdwolff.com/the_truth_about_mmt
See how confused you are ? You did listen to Richard that how your hero was wrong and how MMT pointed him in the right direction ?
Or are you just going to sweep that under the carpet. Michael Hudson also admitted that MMT is 100% correct.
RICHARD WOLFF your hero who admitted that what he was teaching was wrong didn’t even mention the job guarentee. Which is the key stone of MMT. The price anchor and price stability of the whole theory that replaces interest rate targeting and no more issuing of debt.
So even though your hero Richard admits in the video MMT is 100% correct and taught him to teach economics differently. He still didn’t grasp the Sheer magnitude and the specific role of the Job guarentee. Which means he hasn’t read the 30 year body of work called MMT. I have , every paper that has been written.
Call that pedantic or whatever you like. It just shows you don’t even know your hero Richard Wolff and I know him better than you do. Or is that too repetitive for you EU uber alles?

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 8 2023 17:02 utc | 147

Posted by: fnord | Dec 8 2023 15:52 utc | 142

The point is not that it is common, but that it does exist, so no, it is not “miniscule to the point of being non-existent”, it exists, it is documented in the scientific literature, and it totally obliterates any argument that you require two X chromosomes to “naturally” give birth.

—————–
You deal in sweeping generalizations. I deal in facts. You reject the fact that more people are killed by lightning strikes (one in a million) than have Swyer means that Swyer IS “miniscule to the point of being non-existent.
As for “naturally” giving birth:

The consequences of Swyer syndrome without treatment:
• the individual’s gonads do not have two X chromosomes, so the breasts will not develop and the uterus will not grow and menstruate until estrogen is administered. This is often given transdermally.
• their gonads cannot make progesterone, so menstrual periods will not be predictable until progestin is administered, usually as a pill.
• their gonads cannot produce eggs, so conceiving children is not possible without embryo transfer. There has been a case of unassisted pregnancy in one woman with XY gonadal dysgenesis, who had a predominantly 46,XY karyotype – a 46,XY karyotype in peripheral lymphocytes, mosaicism in cultured skin fibroblasts (80% 46,XY and 20% 45,X), and a predominantly 46,XY karyotype in the ovary (93% 46,XY and 6% 45,X) – who gave birth to a 46,XY female with complete gonadal dysgenesis.[4]
• streak gonads with Y chromosome-containing cells have a high likelihood of developing cancer, especially gonadoblastoma.[5] Streak gonads are usually removed within a year or so of diagnosis, since the cancer can begin during infancy.
“>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis#Epidemiology

Read the syndrome:

– breasts will not develop and the uterus will not grow and menstruate until estrogen is administered
– conceiving children is not possible without embryo transfer.
– their gonads cannot make progesterone, so menstrual periods will not be predictable until progestin is administered, usually as a pill.

Without medical intervention, their breasts and uterus do not develop; they do not menstruate; they cannot conceive without embryo transfer.
Natural, my ass.

Posted by: john brewster | Dec 8 2023 17:37 utc | 149

Helmer has a new one up about the diamond business, with ramifications for many issues under discussion here:
THE DIAMOND CRACK-UP – RUSSIA AND THE AFRICAN STATES DEFEAT US-EU-ISRAELI PLAN TO DRIVE RUSSIAN DIAMONDS OUT OF THE MARKET

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 8 2023 17:46 utc | 151

fnord @142: “By far the most medically successful treatment for gender dysphoria – the one which reduces negative symptoms, which reduces suicide rates, which reduces depression and self-loathing – is gender transition via hormone replacement therapy. There is no counter-argument to this.”
Actually, there is. More comprehensive studies are showing “…the risks of puberty suppressing treatment with GnRH-analogues and gender-affirming hormonal treatment currently outweigh the possible benefits…” From Current Concerns About Gender-Affirming Therapy in Adolescents. Finland, Sweden, and England have all reversed their stance on the safety of using hormone treatments in cases of juvenile body/“gender” dysphoria as larger scale and scope studies are showing an increase in suicides among those treated as juveniles as they mature and realize the irreversible harm done to themselves.
There are pharmacological treatments that make delusion easier to cope with on the short term, but there is no drug that can make the delusion real. Reality asserts itself and the man who was sterilized as a child in order to reinforce his fantasy that he was a girl invariably regrets being wrecked back when he was too young to know better. Suicide follows, and it’s your fault.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 8 2023 18:03 utc | 153

Here is what the fraud Starmer’s team is going to to do if they win the election in the UK.
They will do it in the classic Labour fashion by…redefining the term deficit.
From now on when they refer to ‘deficit’ they mean the deficit on the current budget. Which of course means that any shortfall caused by private sector excess saving will be matched by government spending that can be classified as ‘investment’.
A clever trick – if it can be pulled off. The problem of course is with the definition of ‘investment’, which generally doesn’t include investment in human capital.
And that means that the expenditure will be on capital assets and intellectual property (or yet another fudge to redefine the term ‘investment’).
The increase in investment spending should bring down unemployment and increase the tax take which will close the deficit unless there is a sudden change in savings behaviour.
Of course as MMT warns, that approach is ‘pump priming’ at the high skilled/high capital usage level of the economy, which, if there isn’t sufficient taxation or planning controls to free up those construction and development resources, will lead to supply-side shortages and wage spirals.
And once you have invested in something you generally have to do something with it – which often requires an increase in the current budget to staff out the service. Of course if you limit the investment to capital replacement and stuff used solely by the private sector (roads and council houses spring to mind) then you can avoid a current budget impact.
It is the Keynesian idea of balancing the current budget and letting the capital budget float. The suggestion is that it is more politically acceptable for the government to be seen investing in hard and solid Fixed Capital Formation rather than create money to undertake consumption activities such as education, training, R&D or elderly care etc, etc, etc.
The Keynes idea appears to come from a time before the Beveridge style welfare state was implemented and certainly before that evolved into a spending side auto-stabiliser system, but that ‘fact change’ doesn’t appear to have dulled enthusiasm for the concept under Starmer’s leadership.
The numbers I’ve used come from the Public Sector Finance report from the UK’s Office of National Statistics.For the financial year 2014/15 the current budget deficit stood at £48,876mn. So that is the amount you have to generate from somewhere to get it to zero.
However before we do that it is useful to understand how you get that figure. What actually is the current budget deficit?
It is defined as:
Net Current Expenditure + Interest Paid + Depreciation – Current Receipts.
so using the figures from 2014/15 (In £ mns) you get:
634,317 + 47,222 + 37,306 – 669,969
To get the current budget deficit to zero you have to conduct extra investment spending – which then gets taxed away at the tax take percentage (which is 1 – the saving percentage) creating the extra tax receipts to cover the current budget deficit. Effectively you move the deficit from the current budget to the capital budget. Like pulling a rabbit out of the hat.
There are a couple of things to note from this calculation.
The first is that the depreciation figure is a transfer from the capital budget and adds to the current deficit. The more investment you do, the bigger the depreciation figure gets which then means you have to do ever more investment spending every year to cover the growing current deficit.
The second is the interest paid figure which similarly adds to the current deficit. The more investment spending you do at interest the bigger this figure gets. The higher interest rate you pay the bigger this figure gets. And the bigger the figure gets, the more investment spending you have to do in subsequent years to clear the current deficit.
You can already see that there are two unfortunate positive feedback loops inherent within the calculations.
Net investment spending (Gross spending less depreciation) for 2014/15 was £30,328mn. If you express receipts as a percentage of total expenditure you find the tax take is 89.4%. So for every £100 spent, £89.40 came back as tax and £10.60 was held as household and business savings.
The tax take percentage varies as the tax side auto stabilisers allow people to save. In the post crash era where people are generally saving it has been as low as 82%.
So to clear the current budget deficit at a conservative tax take of 80% you’d need to make £61,095mn of extra investment spending (i.e. the capital net spend needs to be three times what it currently is). That will vary up and down depending upon the actions of the automatic stabilisers. In 2009/2010 you would have needed £107,684mn of investment spending.
There is of course lots of talk of closing tax gaps, changing rates and the like. All of that is largely distributional. If you take tax off one person, they can’t then spend it with somebody else and you potentially deprive somebody of an income. Only where you defer or offset saving behaviour, somehow, is there an impact on the total tax take percentage. Really you’re relying on the old balanced budget multiplier to work its magic – which likely isn’t that effective in an open net importing economy like the UK.
There is, of course, as MMT clearly points out there is no need to balance any budget, and doing so violates ‘Lerner’s Law’. The wisdom in Lerner’s statement is already apparent given the brouhaha over People’s QE. All that is down to the complexity of trying to present a simple overdraft or guarantee in flowery language. The mainstream have misinterpreted it and are now engaged in a campaign of misinformation. The lack of simplicity makes that difficult to counter.
Besides the complexity issues, balancing the current budget has clear issues.
1. You are limited to fixed capital formation and capital transfers. So you can build universities and hospitals, but you can’t staff them.
2. Eventually you run out of stuff to build. This leads to the old Labour problem of building roads to nowhere just to keep ‘investment’ going.
3. You neglect items because of the current budget restriction. The only effective investment a government can make is in its people. But that is all current spend and is therefore difficult to do.
4. You have to raise taxes to make the books balance. Nobody likes tax rises. Raising taxes is far more unpopular than explaining that budget balances are not really significant.
It seems strange to take a political hit on taxation when you don’t need to. That’s the fraudulent liberal left for you. The neoliberal globalists.
Fixed capital investment targets a small section of the country’s supply chain. Only a small section of the population is engaged in building things. The UK is 80% service based and people are trained for services. So you are quickly going to run into supply side capacity constraints, and potentially start to limit other capital development in the private economy.
The action of the auto-stabilisers pulls the current budget out of balance as a matter of design. The automatic stabilisers job is If the economy contracts social security payments go up and tax take declines. You then have to do more investment spending to counter that. Yes there is more slack at that point, but is it the right sort of slack. Is the supply fungible enough?
The more investment, the more depreciation and interest paid. That leads to a positive feedback spiral between the current budget deficit and the level of required investment (and is another reason why Gilt Issues are harmful)
Overall it seems a strange political choice, When you can easily get away from adjusting taxes and allow yourself more freedom to improve direct services (the National Education Service for example) with a functional finance approach. Simply explain that government is creating money so banks don’t have to lend it. Government is stepping in so that ordinary people can save more and borrow less while at the same time ensuring everybody the private sector doesn’t wish to hire has a living wage job and an income.
Surely the only people that would object to that are bankers and their economist lackeys.
MMT proposals
https://new-wayland.com/blog/running-a-modern-money-economy/
Fixes all of that by telling the truth. Rather than causing more problems by fooling the public and pulling a rabbit out of the hat.
Balancing the current budget and letting the capital budget float. Is a very old Keynesian idea when we were on the gold standard, and or, fixed exchange rates. The liberal left simply won’t let it die. Even though neither now applies.
Starmer is hell bent on seeing it through. Regardless of all the problems it will cause.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 8 2023 18:14 utc | 155

@ @ too scents | Dec 8 2023 8:40 utc | 125
hey, i figured it out what you are saying! yes, i agree, but regardless i do think this conversation has to happen.. cheers..
fwiw – i agree with john brewster and william gruffs take on all this madness…

Posted by: james | Dec 8 2023 18:19 utc | 157

I think restraining Russian diamonds is going to be just like restraining Russian oil.
Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 8 2023 18:21 utc | 158
—
Yes. It will push value added industrial diamond processing to SE Asia.

Posted by: too scents | Dec 8 2023 18:26 utc | 159

Some people are born with a strong need to hate on someone or something, mucn as some are born epileptic or psychopathic, Of late, tranny-hatred has been in fashion, I’m not sure why. Birth defects of all kinds have always been common and trans-sexuality is one of the less debilitating. Likewise, shield maidens, lady-boys, eunuchs, have exists in all times and places. Try reading Lucian, ON THE SYRIAN GODDESS or recent histories of the caste of hijras in India.

Posted by: lester | Dec 8 2023 18:36 utc | 161

Since I have painstakingly laid out what British Labour plans to do, if they win the UK election in a repetitive and pedantic fashion.
The clever ones on here and there are many standing between the ideologues and idiots. Will quickly see why the UK loves nothing more than stealing both skills and real resources from abroad. It is all linked.
Why the liberal left simply adore the EU and what it stands for.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 8 2023 19:13 utc | 163

fnord @160
The spay/neuter craze for one’s children has peaked and more sober examinations of the results are coming out now. They don’t support your assertions. Surgical and chemical mutilation of children to treat their childhood delusions will be banned everywhere soon enough, and historically it will be viewed with the same disgust as that with which we view childhood genital mutilation among primitive cultures. You are not on the progressive side of history.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 8 2023 19:28 utc | 165

Scorpion | Dec 8 2023 1:03 utc | 104
*** The Ukrainian authorities plan to allocate 400 square kilometers of fertile black soil for the disposal of hazardous chemical and radioactive waste under an agreement with George Soros’s son Alexander ***
Further proof that whatever the regime in Kiev could be called, it most certainly is not “nationalist”.

Posted by: Cynic | Dec 8 2023 20:21 utc | 167

Incidentally, planet Earth is projected to demolish the picket fence at 1.5C right about… now, according to James the Venerable:

Accelerated global warming will cause the 12-month running-mean global temperature to exceed 1.5°C within the next few months and reach a level far above 1.5C by May 2024. Global temperature should fall back below 1.5C with the next La Nina, but the decline likely will be limited and the El Nino/La Nina mean of 1.5°C will have been reached. Subsequently, global temperature will go even higher; that’s assured by Earth’s huge energy imbalance, which makes it unnecessary to wait a decade to declare that the 1.5°C limit has been breached.

“A Miracle Will Occur” Is Not Sensible Climate Policy
http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2023/Miracle.2023.12.07.pdf

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 8 2023 21:27 utc | 169

I wrote post #132 and below I want to expand on that post/comment.
======================================================================
Air Force general predicts war with China in 2025, tells officers to prep by firing ‘a clip’ at a target, and ‘aim for the head’
“I hope I am wrong. My gut tells me will fight in 2025,” said Gen. Mike Minihan in a memo sent to the officers he commands and obtained by NBC News.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/us-air-force-general-predicts-war-china-2025-memo-rcna67967
“Pacom Commander Says U.S. Must Continue Modernization of Strategic Capabilities”.
https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/3464477/pacom-commander-says-us-must-continue-modernization-of-strategic-capabilities
Translation: “We must keep preparing for a war with China”.
Related:
“The coming war with China” (video made by John Pilger, 2016 (???)).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJa8jiD8bxA

Posted by: Mr. Market | Dec 8 2023 22:08 utc | 171

People who claim that identity politics is a divide and conquer tactic of the ruling class are right.
People who then pronounce that discussion of identity politics should be forbidden, (going so far as to appeal to authority by asking B to ban it) are illogical. This creeping totalitarianism should indeed be discussed.
Our ruling overlords are the ones pushing this onto society, knowing that rational people will rebel, even if most people comply.
It goes against my nature to be forced to pretend that men can be women, if they learn to flounce and toss their hair, (behavioral mannerisms we are told define womanhood), and it goes against my nature to have my speech policed and enforced.
I am not in prison, but I have solidarity with those who are. I am not in a rape center with a male roommate, but I stand up for those who are.
Those who trivialize the assault on women, as well as on speech, thought and common sense, are complying with the new rules being set by their owners. They are using this Woke Totalitarianism to put more hate speech and hate crime laws into effect. If they can make you believe absurdities they can make you commit atrocities.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”. ― George Orwell,

Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 9 2023 0:38 utc | 173

Gruff @107:
From the article you linked.

Teachers say he preferred and requested male pronouns, according to a report by a law firm that investigated the assault.

Jokes and snark about pronouns aside, that case involved a MALE student who IDENTIFIED as male putting on a costume and pretending to be a girl and entering the girl’s restroom to commit the alleged rape.
That’s what I meant about generally coming away very unconvinced by the scare stories in the MSM on the whole (mostly meaningless) trans debate, which I’ve stated numerous times seems to concern unaffected people (like you) way more than it should. It’s working, apparently.
The other thing to ask yourself every time you read a story like that is 1) whether the alleged perp’s chosen gender had anything to do with the crime and 2) what the motive was. Most of the time, the reportage isn’t detailed or professional enough to ascertain either.
P.S. As I’ve also stated numerous times before, I think we are like thinkers on many things including Empire and economics. But I also think of you as my casually bigoted Marxist uncle, which is somewhat of a compliment at the same time as something that makes me a little sad.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 9 2023 4:50 utc | 175

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 8 2023 1:27 utc | 109
I’ll ignore your (uncharacteristically) dumb insults and focus on your intended point.
“Driving women from women’s athletics…”
This is to be debated, but it is in fact a different topic than what wagelaborer was talking about when he/she mentioned restrooms, prisons, etc.
As I stated very clearly, biological males participating in women’s sports is potentially a huge problem. But there is always context. If for whatever reason a person is born male, or mostly male (there are gray areas incl. hermaphroditism) and immediately given medical and other treatment to become female, I doubt very seriously they would have attained the necessary testosterone levels by and during puberty to develop into a muscularly superior athlete than a biologically gifted “true” female athlete.
That said, I also fully recognize that it’s deeply unfair and dangerous to allow otherwise fully biological males who have “benefited” from testicular/testosterone development to compete against regular females in sports of endurance and strength, including martial arts, which is something myself and my family have a history with, including females.
You want to make this into an Internet winner black/white “gotcha” thing just like the ruling class wants us to. I want to take these things on a case-by-case basis because as we all know from how dishonestly and incompletely the corporate and partisan media covers things, things are most often not as portrayed.
End of the day, however, this issue isn’t important enough for me to spend any more time arguing with you about because there are far more important and interesting things to discuss.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 9 2023 5:02 utc | 177

Below is a quote from a Xinhuanet posting that shows China responding to the housing investment situation Hudson/Wolff talked about in the interview linked to above

BEIJING, Dec. 8 (Xinhua) — Chinese banks are stepping up their lending support for private property enterprises as loans from major banks have exceeded 30 billion yuan (4.22 billion U.S. dollars) since November, with over 14 billion yuan made in the past two weeks.
After the People’s Bank of China, the National Financial Regulatory Administration, and the China Securities Regulatory Commission held a symposium with financial institutions on Nov. 17, banks have briskly expanded cooperation with property enterprises and ensured that lending was made in a stable and orderly manner.

Maybe China is not going to force the bad banks and investors to take haircuts like Michael Hudson expects….Hmmmm

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 9 2023 7:30 utc | 179

If you are asked how many legs does a sheep have, you will answer: four.
The NY Post has an article about a five-legged lamb. So five-legged sheep exist, too.
If you now are asked how many legs does a sheep have, what you will answer?

Posted by: Passerby | Dec 9 2023 10:15 utc | 181

If you now are asked how many legs does a sheep have, what you will answer?
Posted by: Passerby | Dec 9 2023 10:15 utc | 181
To get to the other side.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Dec 9 2023 11:00 utc | 183

Maybe China is not going to force the bad banks and investors to take haircuts like Michael Hudson expects….Hmmmm
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 9 2023 7:30 utc | 179
If you take a second look at the Hudson/Wolff exchange, psychohistorian, you will notice that Prof. Hudson is not expecting such to happen, at least not right away, since his argument involves the nasty conundrum that China has trained its monetary experts in the US, so there is a lot of bad thinking going on. He’s hopeful, yes, that once it becomes clear these are the wrong policies, measures will be taken to correct the situation. That was the counterclaim that Prof. Wolff made.
And thanks to both you and waynorinorway at 178 for providing that enjoyable link again! I third your recommendations.

Posted by: juliania | Dec 9 2023 15:40 utc | 185

“Anyways, the US would have been better off to Control the Americas and not even enter WW2. ”
Posted by: canuck | Dec 7
Germany declared war on the US in 1941, not vice versa.
Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor was supposed to be a “bloody nose” attack and to make the US negotiate.
Both were major miscalculations, but, as historians way, stupid mistake explain more than conspiracies.

Posted by: lester | Dec 9 2023 21:56 utc | 187

Y’all should read https://www.reddit.com/r/rusAskReddit/comments/18ej27m/comment/kcpdk4q and https://www.reddit.com/r/rusAskReddit/comments/18ej27m/comment/kcpe1p3 if fanboying-fangirling over Vladimir Putin.

Posted by: Noël’s Queen | Dec 10 2023 2:26 utc | 189

Sharing mistresses is not advisable for top political guys, who knew? Tell Prigozhin and Qin Gang. Sex strikes again.

Posted by: Antonym | Dec 10 2023 4:31 utc | 191

The conversation should be about how the state and certain individuals and organisations have pulled the issue of gender identity away from the needs and rights of a minority and turned it into an ideology that now discriminates against women generally, and in particular against homosexual people (lesbians, gay men) by targeting gay youth and forcing them into gender reassignment procedures that are likely to be permanent and have lifelong physical and mental health consequences.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Dec 8 2023 21:00 utc | 168
That one reminded me of the most “gender correction enthusiast” country
Iran. Check if you don’t believe me.

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 11 2023 11:16 utc | 193