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December 07, 2023

Open (Neither Ukraine Nor Palestine) Thread 2023-294

News & views (not related to the wars in Ukraine and Palestine) ...

Posted by b on December 7, 2023 at 13:59 UTC | Permalink

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A great article at Monthly Review examining ideology, identity politics, Zizek and much more. No paywall either.

"Imperialist Propaganda and the Ideology of the Western Left Intelligentsia: From Anticommunism and Identity Politics to Democratic Illusions and Fascism"
by Gabriel Rockhill and Zhao Dingqi


“.....We ‘had’ at least one newspaper in every foreign capital at any given time,” one CIA man told journalist John Crewdson. Furthermore, the source related, “those that the agency did not own outright or subsidize heavily it infiltrated with paid agents or staff officers who could have stories printed that were useful to the agency and not print those it found detrimental.”9 In the digital age, this process has of course continued. Yasha Levine, Alan MacLeod, and other scholars and journalists have detailed the extensive involvement of the U.S. national security state in the realms of big tech and social media. They have demonstrated, among other things, that major intelligence operators occupy key positions at Facebook, X (Twitter), TikTok, Reddit, and Google....

".. As Adolph Reed Jr. has often argued with his signature biting wit, identitarians are perfectly happy to maintain extant class relations—including imperialist relations between nations, I would add—on the condition that there is the requisite ratio of representation of oppressed groups within the ruling class and the professional managerial stratum.

"In addition to helping displace class politics and analysis within the Western left, identity politics has made a major contribution to dividing the left itself into siloed debates around specific identity issues. Instead of class unity against a common enemy, it divides—and conquers—working and oppressed people by encouraging them to identify first and foremost as members of specific genders, sexualities, races, nations, ethnicities, religious groups, and so forth. In this regard, the ideology of identity politics actually is, at a much deeper level, a class politics. It is the politics of a bourgeoisie aimed at dividing the working and oppressed peoples of the world in order to more easily rule over them. It should come as no surprise, then, that it is the governing politics of the professional managerial class stratum in the imperial core. It dominates its institutions and informational outlets, and it is one of the primary mechanisms for career advancement within what Reed insightfully calls “the diversity industry.” It encourages everyone involved to identify with their specific group and advance their own individual interests by posing as its privileged representative. We should note, moreover, that wokeism also has the effect of driving some people into the arms of the right. If the dominant political culture encourages a clan mentality combined with competitive individualism, then it is unsurprising that white people and men have also—as a partial response to their perceived disenfranchisement by the diversity industry—advanced their particular agendas as “victims” of the system. Identity politics devoid of a class analysis is thus absolutely amenable to right-wing and even fascist permutations..."

https://monthlyreview.org/2023/12/01/imperialist-propaganda-and-the-ideology-of-the-western-left-intelligentsia/

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 14:22 utc | 1

Yasha Levine, Alan MacLeod, and other scholars and journalists have detailed the extensive involvement of the U.S. national security state in the realms of big tech and social media.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 14:22 utc | 1

---

Yasha Levine is the epitome of the new liberal man.

Posted by: too scents | Dec 7 2023 14:35 utc | 2

WTF is going on with Venezuela and Guyana??

https://www.rt.com/news/588634-venezuela-mobilizes-army-pais/

Exxon is drilling, with new oil discovered off the coast, now everyone wants a piece of it.

I am getting some serious Saddam invading Kuwait vibes.

Except this time, Russia is not laying back giving anyone a pass, though logistically the US is on home turf, so, not sure what Maduro has in mind exactly, other than bluffing himself into a good deal on the new oil fields, leveraging on the fact that the US is feeding 2 wars already, and has depleted its reserves of both oil and armaments, while cutting itself off a large chunk of global oil production.

But how could the US just sit back and do nothing? And what is stopping them from setting their missiles, navy and air force onto Venezuela to make it pay a price? No invasion needed, just wreck their refineries and economy until they give up on the annexation.

I find it very unlikely Maduro would actually follow through with any military action, though i was also wrong about Russia in Ukraine... but intent just does not match the capability as far as i can see.

Anyone else got any insights/thoughts/predictions?

Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 7 2023 14:51 utc | 3

Thank you B for a fresh no-no thread

So we can discuss other stuff without polluting the other threads, so...

Guyana, there are at least three major axis of discussion; current situation, 1960's US power plays and 1895-1899 assertion of the Monroe doctrine and how it will come back to bite the US within the next decade.

China, regardless of what the MSM says, other better sources confirm the clean up of some compromised high level officers (some because their grown up children sold information to the west as they lived in the US playground, others allegedly by being honey-potted by western female assets). Should we focus on the compromising or on the clean up? should we consider the areas of interest where this happened?

I'd also like to add the attempt to turn Serbia, will that turn into a color if it fails in the elections? Get Belgrade and color it as per standard procedure?

Any other subjects welcome.

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 7 2023 14:55 utc | 4

though logistically the US is on home turf, so, not sure what Maduro has in mind exactly,

I find it very unlikely Maduro would actually follow through with any military action, though i was also wrong about Russia in Ukraine... but intent just does not match the capability as far as i can see.

Anyone else got any insights/thoughts/predictions?

Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 7 2023 14:51 utc | 3

So Venezuela current situation it is.

Well, they have at least 3 S300 batteries and 24 Su-30 MKV (if moskow hasn't transferred any more), so any direct air intervention by the US might end with a lot of dead us birds.

And the last time things got hot RF sent two blackjacks.

I don't see any neighbors with spare fighters and bombers to spare at the US's "request"

Any ground moves would be logistically difficult, venezuela has a big standing army and a thousand Mi-35M Hind-F to move them and support them.

The US had to let venezuela go (apart from the failed Guáido clown coup) for a reason.


Posted by: Newbie | Dec 7 2023 15:05 utc | 5

@ Posted by: Newbie | Dec 7 2023 15:05 utc | 5

The US navy alone has enough conventional standoff fire power to send Venezuela to the stone age. Don't even have to leave the waters of Florida to hit Caracas, which is <2,500 km range of top range Tomahawks. Pretty sure Uncle Sam has more than a few to spare to cover their own back yard.. Ukraine or Israel contingencies aside ;

Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 7 2023 15:18 utc | 6

From Dances with Bears Dec 5, “Russia’s ideology is now national liberation of the world from the U.S. empire, with an assist from Patriarch Kirill.” Tortured cart-horse metaphor and somewhat obscure title, but this is Putin throwing down the gauntlet.

Posted by: Pundita | Dec 7 2023 15:21 utc | 7

Rubiconned @3

The dispute goes back to 1841 when the Venezuelan government challenged the "Schomburgh line" whereby a surveyer in the British employ laid claim to vast amounts of Venezuelan lands.
Interestingly the Venezuelan claim was backed by the US government of Grover Cleveland which invoked the Monroe Doctrine against Britain's claim.
There was talk of war between the US and UK.
Arthur Balfour's Uncle, Lord Salisbury, then Prime Minister, while protesting that the Doctrine was not part of International Law allowed the claim to go to arbitration.

It must be very tempting for Venezuela to move forces into the disputed region, the consequences of which actions would make NATO's war in Ukraine look like very small beer internationally.
In terms of Venezuelan politics any forward policy towars Guyana is going to put the comprador Opposition in an embarassing position.
At stake is an oil deposit of enormous value, obviously a part of the deposits that have made Venezuela one of the great oil reserves of the world.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 15:24 utc | 8

Sorry, Here's a link to the history.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1866-1898/venezuela

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 15:25 utc | 9

> identity politics

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 14:22 utc | 1

Oddly enough was thinking of the topic (more specifically the alphabet soup of L G B Q T ..) and an interesting possibility presented itself.

The core basis of the thought posits that Identity politics is inherently misogynist.

While the broader aspect of destabilizing and disrupting the formation of coherent social groupings is fundamental to maintaining control by the Cabal -- thus the push for establishing 'identity' as a matter of consensus rather than inherent quality (and that implies inherent rights, btw) -- it is noteworthy that in narrower realm of sexual identity, it is the the nature and meaning of Woman that is completely under attack by the supposedly "liberal" and "anti-patriarchy" brigades. Woman, per the new identity doctrines, has been reduced to an orifice and behavioral mannerisms.

So that thought that came from that was, given the fact that most of the letters in the alphabet soup of wokeness are (in the main) males struggling with sexuality and dispossessing actual women and females from what is their inherent (natural) identity.

This aspect, this focus on sexuality by the Cabal, to me seems like a stone designed to kill two birds. Identity and Feminism.

(True feminism, empowering women to have an equal and balancing input into human society, which is held to be distinct from the emasculating social engineering efforts of the Cabal.)

Posted by: robinthehood | Dec 7 2023 15:26 utc | 10

The 150 year old boundary dispute in Guyana will go to international arbitration

Posted by: Exile | Dec 7 2023 15:29 utc | 11


The US navy alone has enough conventional standoff fire power to send Venezuela to the stone age. Don't even have to leave the waters of Florida to hit Caracas, which is <2,500 km range of top range Tomahawks. Pretty sure Uncle Sam has more than a few to spare to cover their own back yard.. Ukraine or Israel contingencies aside ;

Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 7 2023 15:18 utc | 6

At 2 to 4 million a pop for a thousand pound payload, unless you're thinking about nuking venezuela, the US would bankrupt itself long before any serious damage was done.

As for nuking see my comment about two friendly nuclear bombers on state visit last time things got hotter.

Shadowstorms have smaller range but similar payloads, and probably better stealth profile, apart from being intercepted there were no substantial damages, certainly not in the "I surrender" type.

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 7 2023 15:32 utc | 12

Newbie@5
One dramatically changed aspect of the neighbourhood since the heyday of Professor Guiado's performances is the change of government in Colombia-in the past always ready to suck up to Uncle Sam- and Brazil where Bolsonaro is out.
The problem that I see is the Guyanese bourgeoisie which is deeply embedded in north American society, the sons and grandsons of the Indo Guyanese who backed Cheddi Jagan are now working for the Democrats in New York and Pennsylvania.
Still it is hard to believe that the masses in Guyana can not be attracted by Chavezmo politics.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 15:33 utc | 13

Yasha Levine is the epitome of the new liberal man.

Posted by: too scents | Dec 7 2023 14:35 utc | 2

Meaning what, exactly?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 7 2023 15:35 utc | 14

The dispute goes back to 1841 when the Venezuelan government challenged the "Schomburgh line" whereby a surveyer in the British employ laid claim to vast amounts of Venezuelan lands.
Interestingly the Venezuelan claim was backed by the US government of Grover Cleveland which invoked the Monroe Doctrine against Britain's claim.


Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 15:24 utc | 8

That is the most interesting point for me, as an ascending hegemon, the US made GB stand down in 1895-1899

In half a dozen years it is time for the US to be on the receiving end. Unlikely to happen in Venezuela, but inevitable elsewhere.

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 7 2023 15:35 utc | 15

The 150 year old boundary dispute in Guyana will go to international arbitration

Posted by: Exile | Dec 7 2023 15:29 utc | 11

Been there, done that :D

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 7 2023 15:36 utc | 16

robinthehood | Dec 7 2023 15:26 utc | 10

Identity politics as zionisms for every interest in society except the working class.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 15:37 utc | 17

Newbie@5
One dramatically changed aspect of the neighbourhood since the heyday of Professor Guiado's performances is the change of government in Colombia-in the past always ready to suck up to Uncle Sam- and Brazil where Bolsonaro is out.
The problem that I see is the Guyanese bourgeoisie which is deeply embedded in north American society, the sons and grandsons of the Indo Guyanese who backed Cheddi Jagan are now working for the Democrats in New York and Pennsylvania.
Still it is hard to believe that the masses in Guyana can not be attracted by Chavezmo politics.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 15:33 utc | 13

Colombia only has super tucanos to slaughter helpless farmers and drug dealers who can't afford a stinger.

Put them all up against a single su-30 and you get a ton of dead tucanos and a smiling sukhoi.

As for Lula, he's a bit of a wild card there, he absolutely needs RF fertilizers and hasn't completely forgotten his anti-imperialistic past. (and he wouldn't waste his grippens to be a latin zelensky)

The US has very little reliable cannon fodder there...

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 7 2023 15:43 utc | 18

The dispute goes back to 1841 when the Venezuelan government challenged the "Schomburgh line" whereby a surveyer in the British employ laid claim to vast amounts of Venezuelan lands.
Interestingly the Venezuelan claim was backed by the US government of Grover Cleveland which invoked the Monroe Doctrine against Britain's claim.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 15:24 utc | 8

That is the most interesting point for me, as an ascending hegemon, the US made GB stand down in 1895-1899

In half a dozen years it is time for the US to be on the receiving end. Unlikely to happen in Venezuela, but inevitable elsewhere.
Posted by: Newbie | Dec 7 2023 15:35 utc | 15

Grover Cleveland was the only president elected in non sequential elections; Donald Trump , if he wins next year, will repeat the feat

Anyways, the US would have been better off to Control the Americas and not even enter WW2. The City put them in the War. 'Joseph P. Kennedy was the ambassador to UK in 37-41attempting to keep the US and England out of the war-and he is painted as a Nazi lover when he was an essentially an American firster whatever any leftist historian rants.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 7 2023 15:47 utc | 19

@ Posted by: Newbie | Dec 7 2023 15:32 utc | 12

"At 2 to 4 million a pop for a thousand pound payload, unless you're thinking about nuking venezuela, the US would bankrupt itself long before any serious damage was done."

At 4 million a pop, that makes about 15,000 Tomahawks for what the US Gov't has sunk into its thorn in Russia's side experiment half way around the world in (US) strategic non-entity Ukraine (60 Billion USD).

If you don't think the US would be willing to invest that and more to enforce its Monroe doctrine and control oil trade in the Atlantic... and if you don't understand what 15,000 Tomahawks in the right places can do to a country... I'll just have to take Mark Twain's advice and walk away from this debate :)

Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 7 2023 15:48 utc | 20

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 14:22 utc | 1

Bingo... Nail on head and how most of the ( liberal ) left lie about money.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 7 2023 15:50 utc | 21

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 14:22 utc | 1

The one party nation state in action right here..

https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=61432

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 7 2023 15:52 utc | 22

Identity politics as zionisms for every interest in society except the working class.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 15:37 utc | 17

It is possible the Marxists' lack of love (to put it mildly) for the middle classes has been an historic error. I prefer the "Animal House" social model as I believe this is the model that is the basis of their orientation towards the rest of humanity:

two distinct categories of biologicals: plantation owners and "G-D's little creatures".

So workers are, from that point of view, just like office workers "G-D's little creatures" put on Earth to serve the "plantation owners". And resistance naturally must focus on the mechanics of the plantation system.

And that means money.

Posted by: robinthehood | Dec 7 2023 15:59 utc | 23

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 14:22 utc | 1

Adolf Reed is a man of his generation like Du Bois and Derrick Bell, an over-educated race-man at heart, burdened by LBJ's electoral sops and waving a bankrupt "promissory note" at bleeding heart libs—not a DSA marxist sage. He was most instructive, while he dogged Mitch O'Bama for the Chicago Defender. That is tracking Obama's footsteps, 1991-2004, from cynical slum lord in the Illinois Assembly to his beatification by the DNC.

Rockhill? What in hell is a "French-American" but Derrida's shadow?

Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 7 2023 16:03 utc | 24

At 4 million a pop, that makes about 15,000 Tomahawks for what the US Gov't has sunk into its thorn in Russia's side experiment half way around the world in (US) strategic non-entity Ukraine (60 Billion USD).

If you don't think the US would be willing to invest that and more to enforce its Monroe doctrine and control oil trade in the Atlantic... and if you don't understand what 15,000 Tomahawks in the right places can do to a country... I'll just have to take Mark Twain's advice and walk away from this debate :)

Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 7 2023 15:48 utc | 20

In all of it's history the US has spent less than 2.000 and even major wars were on the hundreds.

I doubt they could produce 15.000 within our lifetimes

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 7 2023 16:05 utc | 25

Meaning what, exactly?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 7 2023 15:35 utc | 14

---

Yasha schools with SF Bay Area liberal fishes.

Posted by: too scents | Dec 7 2023 16:06 utc | 26

Anyone else got any insights/thoughts/predictions?

Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 7 2023 14:51 utc | 3

I think Uncle Sugar is kinda busy right now.

No idea what Maduro intends to do, but his timing is excellent. He looks to be proactive, appointing governors, threatening the oil companies, and setting up adminstrative structures, at least in theory.

We were just relaxing our grip on VZ to get some needed heavy oil out of them.

It will be interesting to see how Latin America sees the issue, when the dust settles a bit.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 7 2023 16:08 utc | 27

Something is in the works as Putin did a quick one-day visit to UAE then Saudi then back to Moscow to meet with Oman and Iran before and during today's Russia Calling investment forum, with Putin showing some wit in his greeting with Raisi:

"I am very glad to see you in Moscow.

"Yesterday, you know, I was in a neighboring region, I flew directly over the territory of your country to my colleagues and wanted to land and meet right in Tehran, but I am told: the President packed up, flies to Moscow."

The Forum's theme this year: "Life Without Globalization: Uniting Sovereign Economies". Here's Putin sounding a lot like Xi Jinping:

"Russia Calling! has always been aimed at the development of an equal and mutually beneficial cooperation between our country and the outside world. It would not be an exaggeration to call it one of the symbols of Russia's openness over the past two decades. its readiness to integrate into the global economy, actively engage with both the West and the East."

Once the transcript's complete, I'll have a report up at my substack.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 7 2023 16:12 utc | 28

Anyways, the US would have been better off to Control the Americas and not even enter WW2. The City put them in the War. 'Joseph P. Kennedy was the ambassador to UK in 37-41attempting to keep the US and England out of the war-and he is painted as a Nazi lover when he was an essentially an American firster whatever any leftist historian rants.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 7 2023 15:47 utc | 19

What scenario do you consider?

Would the axis win and rule eurasia with africa and eastern pacific next?

Or would Russia prevail and get eurasia (with GB-US keeping americas, africa and eastern pacifica)?


Yes long term (if no further warswith the winer) it might be the best for uk and us citizens but not at level of dominance the us had after the war.

What ifs are always interesting...

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 7 2023 16:17 utc | 29

As a volunteer in a museum library I once had the 4 volume 1897 US presidential commission report on the boundary between Venezuela and then British Guyana in my hands. Volume 4 with the maps alone is very interesting. Basically, all maps of the area that were known at the time, are in there. fascinating stuff.

Since it was printed by the Government Printing Office in the USA there is a copy in the Library of Congress and they have made it available digitally. Or maybe a university library near were one lives might have it.

Author: United States Commission on Boundary between Venezuela and Britisch Guiana
Published 1897

United States Commission on Boundary between Venezuela and British Guiana : report and accompanying papers ; Volume 1 : Historical ; Volume 2 : Extracts from archives ; Volume 3 : Geographical

[Venezuela Boundary Commission, Report and accompanying papers of the Commission appointed by the President of the United States "To investigate and report upon the true divisional line between the Republic of Venezuela and Britisch Guiana" Volume 4 Atlas] Maps of the Orinoco-Essequibo region South America

PS anyone know if Google Maps had the disputed boundary line down the Essquibo river in Guyana before or is this a very recent change? It has been a while since I looked at that area and I knew about the disputed southern boundaries of Guyana and Suriname and between Suriname and French Guyana but can't remember the border between Venezuela and Guyana as disputed and that line down the Essquibo.

Link to LOC item

NaomiClareNL

Posted by: NaomiClareNL | Dec 7 2023 16:26 utc | 30

The problem with the mainstream Left politics is that it has become so cautious and focus-group oriented that it has lost the capacity to outline a radical solution.

https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=35980

Gabriel Rockhill and Zhao Dingqi who wrote "Imperialist Propaganda and the Ideology of the Western Left Intelligentsia: From Anticommunism and Identity Politics to Democratic Illusions and Fascism".

Won't have the first Damn clue about money. So they end up full circle. " how are we going to pay for it " it's always " how are we going to pay for it " as if the last 3 years was a mirage and didn't happen.

This is the so called progressive left talking to each other

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/nov/23/dining-across-the-divide-sean-paul

Absolutely clueless. Swim in the neoliberal, fiscal conservative bullshit up to their necks.

Everybody has had a front row seat. 1 yard from the stage that has explicitly shown them, beyond any doubt that finding the money is NEVER an issue.

Yet, in 5 years time they will still be asking " how are we going to pay for it. " and look, look, look over there it is a squirrel.

Voters are just dumb - period. No ifs , no buts, as dumb as a bang of spanners. Refuse to believe what they have witnessed in front of their very own eyes for the last 3 years. They need and beg ideologues to tell them it was a mirage. That their own eyes were lying to themselves.


Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 7 2023 16:26 utc | 31

canuck@19
So Joseph P would have described himself-as an America Firster.
In fact he was sympathetic to fascism as was much of US business- it shared their hatred of Unions and socialists, protected property (however acquired) from democractic control and taxation and shared their racism, including dislike of Jews. And then there was the anglophobic twist of a gombeen nationalist.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 16:27 utc | 32

I see Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs website is inaccessible now, both Russian and English versions.

I see Naryshkin has written a new article I'll try to provide. Here's RT's report:

By backing Kiev in its fight with Moscow, the US risks sleepwalking into another Vietnam War-style debacle, Sergey Naryshkin, the head of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR), has said.

In an opinion piece for Razvedchik magazine issued by the SVR and published on Thursday, Naryshkin predicted tectonic geopolitical shifts in the coming year, which he said would be marked by an intensified confrontation between the West and those countries that oppose its hegemony.

So, he expects escalation to occur.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 7 2023 16:30 utc | 33

Marxists really struggle with the truth also.

https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=42246

If Marxists engages with the accounting at all, they seem to do it using, what can best be described as, a General Ledger View.

https://new-wayland.com/blog/why-economists-cant-see-mmt/

Miss alot of things because of it.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 7 2023 16:50 utc | 34

Small talking point but it took an Act of Congress to get poppas Kennedy and Bush to stop trading with the enemy. They were American Firsters alright, "we'll make the weapons, ya'll go ahead and kill each other"......and the dogs bark.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Dec 7 2023 17:14 utc | 35

I find it very unlikely Maduro would actually follow through with any military action, though i was also wrong about Russia in Ukraine... but intent just does not match the capability as far as i can see.

Anyone else got any insights/thoughts/predictions?

Posted by: Rubiconned

I think Maduro is making a defensive maneuver against the threats from the US and also from the UK to build bases in Guyana - a direct threat to Venezuela. And Biden's current situation (electoral, economic and also military) helps the maneuver.
It's a risky maneuver considering the situation in Brazil, where Lula is very compromised and has no real power.

Posted by: geopolanalyst | Dec 7 2023 17:50 utc | 36

ADRIAN ZENS LIKE BAERBOCK NEVER DISAPPOINTS, LOL...

https://nitter.net/RnaudBertrand/status/1732760312539963892#m

Arnaud Bertrand
12h
This is an absolutely extraordinary series of tweets by Adrian Zenz, the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation employee at the origin of the "Uyghur forced labor" allegations.

He responds to the results of the audit Volkswagen commissioned independent German auditing firm Loening to perform at its Xinjiang site, where they checked the contracts and salary payments of all 197 employees, as well as conducted 40 interviews. They found "no sign of forced labor" and were "unable to identify any special security measures"(barrons.com/news/no-sign-of-…)

So Mr Zenz's challenge is "how do I square this circle?"... And he chooses to do so in the most extraordinary way, by basically arguing that employers in Xinjiang just cannot ascertain whether they have forced labor in their ranks. They can't because "workers in Xinjiang's forced labor systems have contracts [meaning they can resign], and a number of them earn a decent wage". So even though you pay your workers well and put them on flexible work contracts, it means nothing. According to Zenz you can't even ask your employees about it because it's "profoundly unethical to attempt to interview Uyghurs in Xinjiang".

Which is an extraordinarily convenient answer to all these companies finding no trace of forced labor in Xinjiang (Volkswagen wasn't the only one, numerous other companies performed audits which yielded no result, like Sketchers: about.skechers.com/wp-conten…). Basically: "you find no trace of forced labor because it's impossible for you know" 🤷

So what does "forced labor" mean if the people concerned earn decent wage and are on normal employment contracts?

According to Mr Zenz it means "social stability through full Uyghur employment and having them work in settings that can be much better controlled by the state".

Which is achieved through "social mobilization, recruitment, training and transfer". Which is simply absolutely unreal a definition for forced labor. Which state doesn't want social stability and full employment? Which states doesn't organize job-related training and recruitment programs to achieve this?

And how does that even remotely constitute forced labor?

As for people "working in settings that can be much better controlled by the state", what does that even mean if the people work for private companies like Volkswagen with decent wages and normal employment contracts, and in a work setting where the employer itself is unable to identify any trace of forced labor?

It's meaningless.

And what's the corollary? That to be satisfied there's no forced labor in Xinjiang one would need to see social instability, mass unemployment, and a society where the state has lost control?

It's ridiculous.
This all goes to show just how insanely flawed this whole narrative is.

The most laughable part is his conclusion: "the only ethical choice is full withdrawal". Looks like he indeed wants to see mass unemployment in Xinjiang... Bear in mind the guy works for the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, an American anti-communist propaganda shop founded by an act of Congress.

So no doubt he'd love to see instability and suffering in China, because that'd prove "communism doesn't work". In the meantime, he's forced to keep trying to square his circles.

Maybe the only instance of forced labor we have in this whole story is him.


Posted by: MD | Dec 7 2023 17:57 utc | 37

U.S. STYLED DELUSIONS CONCERNING CHINA NEVER DISAPPOINT ALSO...LOL...

The entitlement and hubris is absolutely off the charts:

https://nitter.net/RnaudBertrand/status/1732760312539963892#m

"We've got to look at what are the technologies where we are ahead of China, they're capable of doing very bad things and we're going to deny the entire country this class of equipment" nitter.net/jordanschnyc/sta…

Does she seriously believe she can stop the technological progress of 1/5th of humanity, especially when it's a country that produces 8 times more engineers than the US?

Not only it's not going to happen but with her "strategy" she's inviting China to invest unbelievable amounts of ressources and brainpower into those very technologies, literally doing the very thing she seeks to avoid.

Also I know the US obviously doesn't care about its image anymore at this stage but hearing her words the entire world concludes the US is a bully, and they cheer for China.

Posted by: MD | Dec 7 2023 18:07 utc | 38

from Asia Times -- an interesting look at why Chinese aren't like Westerners.

. . .More Tao, Less Mao. . .Horváth repeatedly quotes from Chinese classic texts such as the “Tao Te Ching”: “Those who lead people by following the Tao, don’t use weapons to enforce their will. Using force always leads to unseen troubles.” He believes this attitude permeates Chinese foreign policy. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 7 2023 18:17 utc | 39

EVEN THE Financial Times WHICH HAS NO TROUBLE AT ALL TO FABRICATE, LIE AND SPREAD PROPAGANDA, IF IT SUITS THEIR POLITICAL AGENDA IN THE NAME TO FIGHT CHINA, NOW ADMITS THE OBVIOUS... LOL...

https://nitter.net/RnaudBertrand/status/1732376801094357036#m

Arnaud Bertrand
Dec 6
Wow, the Financial Times chief economics commentator just released this piece entitled: "Sorry America, China has a bigger economy than you". In fact he explains how China's economy is already 22% larger.

It's officially over folks, America is number 2.
ft.com/content/c406ef56-bc43…

Sorry America, China has a bigger economy than you
Measures that show the opposite have absurd implications and dangerous policy prescriptions

Posted by: MD | Dec 7 2023 18:19 utc | 40

Brian Berletic has an excellent summary of China's response to the United States' longing for war in south east asia.

https://journal-neo.su/2023/12/07/washingtons-obsession-with-containing-china-continues/

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 18:26 utc | 41

Just funny videos showcasing Russia's isolation in Mideast.

To have fun, and to insult your doubleplusgoodthinking peers.

https://vimeo.com/891967309

https://vimeo.com/891962916

Posted by: Arioch | Dec 7 2023 18:38 utc | 42

THE TERM "UGLY AMERICAN" GOT SOME STANDING POINTS WITHIN THE INTERNATIONAL TOURIST INDUSTRY, ALONGSIDE WITH BUGGING TRAVELERS FROM GER, UK AND AUS. MANY U.S. SOLDIERS IN FOREIGN BASES ARE THE SPECIAL EDITION...

https://nitter.net/RihitoPhysicist/status/1731713671162978325#m

@RihitoPhysicist
Dec 4
Okinawa Gov. Denny Tamaki reveals 70% !!! of his work as a Governor is to deal with problems of US bases, which leaves little time for his people like plans to rebuild after Covid economic decline.

This makes it even more important for him to kick US bases out and have autonomy.

Posted by: MD | Dec 7 2023 18:38 utc | 43

Oh, sorry, it existed just few hours ago, acc was deleted with no notice...

Posted by: Arioch | Dec 7 2023 18:40 utc | 44

The thing about judo..

Also the Natzio Imperial strategy of Extending the enemy by getting into their backyards… boomerangs are fun, like blowbacks.

The war by a thousand needles proceeds. Solemanis revenge extends to the Caribbean!

Anyone still wondering why China has been building a navy at pace. There’s a lot of BRI and SCO to protect from …pirates.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 7 2023 18:58 utc | 45

Uh oh, Guyana is screwed now. Blinky says they have "our" unwavering support.

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Dec 7 2023 19:17 utc | 46

https://nitter.net/aaronjmate/status/1730310879529607630#m

Aaron Maté
Nov 30
In Western media, "Bellingcat" is portayed as an independent outlet.

In real life, Bellingcat is funded by/ collaborates with NATO states and war profiteers.

Here is some new evidence of that cozy relationship:
The Grayzone
@TheGrayzoneNews
Nov 30
FOI request reveals Bellingcat collusion with Western intelligence

@KitKlarenberg on an extraordinary email showing how the "open source" outlet beloved by the CIA collaborates directly with Western intelligence agencies
thegrayzone.com/2023/11/30/b…


Posted by: MD | Dec 7 2023 19:23 utc | 47

Michael Hudson and Richard Wolff both appeared with Nima on a very good video about economics and China

Posted by: leaf | Dec 7 2023 19:24 utc | 48

Michael Hudson and Richard Wolff both appeared with Nima on a very good video about economics and China

Posted by: leaf | Dec 7 2023 19:24 utc | 48

woops forgot the link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS4ewq1R9ps

Posted by: leaf | Dec 7 2023 19:24 utc | 49

"SVR Chief Sergey Naryshkin: 2024 is the Year of Geopolitical Awakening" is now ready to read. Also, Russia's MFA site is back online. Our quarterly Patreon meeting with Dr. Hudson is today at 2:30 Pacific. I hope for an improvement over the last session.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 7 2023 19:32 utc | 50

It’s kicking off as we say above on ALL FRONTS.
The Empire will be soon seeing the Jungle Barbarians dust on all horizons.

The Russian MFA has been busy today!
From their telegram site there was a a lot! The reports from the Arabian tour and more. Going to keep me busy for a few hours.

https://t.me/MFARussia/18463
‘🇷🇺🇺🇸 Ambassador Anatoly Antonov’s answer to a media question

❓: Dear Ambassador Antonov, how could you comment on today’s statements made by the U.S. leadership that the Russian Federation «will not stop» if it wins in Ukraine and invades one of the NATO states? Thus, they say, it will create the preconditions for a direct clash between the Russian and American armed forces.

💬 Anatoly Antonov: When it comes to our country, the local authorities do not shun any myth-making and propagation of dangerous lies: whether it is staged «atrocities» in Bucha inspired by the West or Russia’s alleged plans to use nuclear weapons during a special military operation in Ukraine.

📌 Such bogeyman stories are fabricated in order to justify to taxpayers and sober-minded political forces the huge expenses for «containing» the Russian Federation.

👉 In an attempt to «add fuel» to the fire of the Ukrainian proxy war local authorities have finally lost touch with reality, easily discussing the likelihood of a direct clash between the armed forces of our countries. This kind of provocative rhetoric is unacceptable for a responsible nuclear state.

☝️ Let me emphasize: Washington and insatiable U.S. military-industrial complex are direct beneficiaries of the bloodshed in Ukraine. The 52nd «package» of weapons allocated today for the needs of the deranged neo-Nazis in Kiev proves it. It is time for local authorities to come to their senses and stop wreaking chaos all over the world just to save American hegemony from fading out? ‘

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 7 2023 19:37 utc | 51

China is a tiny country, it only has room for one man's thought.

Posted by: John Kennard | Dec 7 2023 19:37 utc | 52

Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 7 2023 15:18 utc | 6

The US navy alone has enough conventional standoff fire power to send Venezuela to the stone age. Don't even have to leave the waters of Florida to hit Caracas, which is <2,500 km range of top range Tomahawks. Pretty sure Uncle Sam has more than a few to spare to cover their own back yard.. Ukraine or Israel contingencies aside ;


Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Gaza, Iran/ME, China, Taiwan. Venezuela? Sure U.S., let’s start another war on a new continent. And pay no attention to that 10 million+ body invasion on your southern border. Twould be novel if the West would cease fire with the world for awhile.

Posted by: UBAH | Dec 7 2023 19:43 utc | 53

Bevin at @1 and robinthehood @10:

Jimmy Dore had a segment with Catherine Lui in which they made similar points about the role of the college educated professional workers in the enforcing of the division of blue collar workers and other more downtrodden workers of US society. He played segments of his interview with Ivy League professor Cornel West, in which West insisted that he was a victim of violent white supremacy. At this point, it becomes farcical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a3VIfb-dus

The trans agenda is an attack on women, not just feminists. Women are now not allowed to talk about our concerns, name our body parts, have our own sports, or have privacy in spaces where we are vulnerable.

The most vulnerable women, women in prisons, now have to deal with male rapists put into their cells. Women in prison have stated that they are afraid to have their children visit on Visitor's Day, because child molesters and other violent men would have access to them. Women in rape centers have to deal with men in drag asking them details of their assault. Women in domestic violence centers have to deal with men flouncing around with hard-ons, bragging about how they can get away with it. And all of this is celebrated in the press, even the self-identified "left" press (especially the self-identified "left" press), as a sign of liberation of the Most Oppressed People Ever (men who want to force everyone in society to pretend they are women.)

Pregnant women are now called "birthing people" and advised on how to "chest feed". How can anyone not see that this is an attack on women, when women have been written out of the most basic part of human sexuality and reproduction?

An acquaintance was just disinvited from speaking at a Jewish Voices For Peace demonstration when she was "outed" as a woman who understands that woman is a biological category of humans, not a feeling or desire in a man's head, a "TERF", which is used as an epithet for women who can then be attacked with impunity.

What does being a TERF have to do with the Israel/Hamas conflict, you may ask?
Well, no, actually, you may not ask. Asking questions about the Woke dogma is heretical, and can get you ex-communicated, or worse.

Yesterday's Wordle word was "woman". My husband said "I'm surprised that the NY Times would use that word. I thought they didn't know what it meant."
Indeed.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 7 2023 19:55 utc | 54

https://www.reddit.com/user/EldritchMalediction might piss some of you off but y'all should read this person's comments.

Posted by: Noël's Queen | Dec 7 2023 19:57 utc | 55

https://nitter.net/LeeCamp/status/1732062464869552513#m

Lee Camp [Redacted]
@LeeCamp
Dec 5
12 Ways you know there is no such thing as American democracy:

1) Unlimited dark money spending on candidates
2) Unlimited spending on advertising
3) Electoral college
4) Corporate media propaganda
5) Super delegates
6) Gerrymandering
7) Black box voting machines with secret code
8) Incredibly difficult for 3rd parties to even get on the ballot
9) Push polling
10) Limited polling place locations & times
11) If the American people want something that doesn't align with corporate interests, we have a close-to 0% chance of getting it through Congress.
12) [Insert here other ways in which this "democracy" is rigged]

Posted by: MD | Dec 7 2023 19:58 utc | 56

in which West insisted that he was a victim of violent white supremacy

Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 7 2023 19:55 utc | 54

---

West was not instantiated yesterday. He was a child before and during the civil rights movement. He was born before Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat.

Posted by: too scents | Dec 7 2023 20:07 utc | 57

@Immaculate deception | Dec 7 2023 19:17 utc | 46

Uh oh, Guyana is screwed now. Blinky says they have "our" unwavering support.
Until it begins to waver, which is anytime.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 7 2023 20:17 utc | 58

My prediction: There are many indications that the German government will end up in the dustbin of history by end of this Year or the beginning of next year. Interesting times, what comes after that?

Posted by: Phrateek | Dec 7 2023 20:21 utc | 59

China is a tiny country, it only has room for one man's thought.

Posted by: John Kennard | Dec 7 2023 19:37 utc | 52

____

;
Does the USA have room for thought at all?

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 7 2023 20:22 utc | 60

@ Phrateek | Dec 7 2023 20:21 utc | 59

In the case of Germoney, what comes next is more of the same, probably in the form of yet another CDU-SPD “große Koalition” — with the warmongering Grünen if necessary.

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 7 2023 20:25 utc | 61

A case study of how to tell your investment is screwed:

UAE’s top AI group vows to phase out Chinese hardware to appease US

Abu Dhabi-backed G42 says it ‘cannot work with both sides’ and retain access to American-made AI chips


A leading Gulf artificial intelligence company has said it is cutting ties with Chinese hardware suppliers in favour of US counterparts, in a sign of the growing geopolitical struggle over the new technology.

G42 of the United Arab Emirates is making the move to ensure its access to US-made chips by allaying concerns among its American partners, which include Microsoft and OpenAI, chief executive Peng Xiao said.

“For better or worse, as a commercial company, we are in a position where we have to make a choice,” Xiao told the Financial Times. “We cannot work with both sides. We can’t.”

...

https://www.ft.com/content/6710c259-0746-4e09-804f-8a48ecf50ba3

Posted by: too scents | Dec 7 2023 20:31 utc | 62

" I find it very unlikely Maduro would actually follow through with any military action, though i was also wrong about Russia in Ukraine... but intent just does not match the capability as far as i can see.

Anyone else got any insights/thoughts/predictions?

Posted by: Rubiconned | Dec 7 2023 14:51 utc | 3 "


Easy, always examine the timing of events.

" U.S. eases sanctions on Venezuelan oil after Maduro agrees to elections. The Biden administration on Wednesday eased oil, gas and gold sanctions against Venezuela a day after the government of President Nicolás Maduro and the U.S.-backed opposition agreed to terms for a competitive presidential election next year.Oct 18, 2023 "

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/18/biden-eases-venezuela-oil-sanctions/

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 7 2023 20:33 utc | 63

@malenkov
New elections! Without the new Projekt of Sahra Wagenknechts Party. Germany in only able to face one antisystem party, like AFD, not two.

Posted by: Phrateek | Dec 7 2023 20:36 utc | 64

There are no "biological categories" that are real and not simply concepts that are sometimes useful and sometimes not. "Woman" is not a "biological category". It refers to a social grouping, based on social relations between individuals who have certain things in common, and who society trains and expects to behave in certain ways.

Smarter transphobes will sometimes say "male" or "female", which are more "precise" and sciencey-sounding words. These are also not "biological categories". Human sex variation does not correspond to an XX/XY binary, which is what "female/male" implies. Intersex people are about as common as transgender people (although there's overlap, of course). When biologists or physicians find it relevant and useful to speak of sex chromosomes, they speak of sex chromosomes specifically. Sex chromosomes do not map onto historically (and/or prehistorically) instituted gender roles. Dividing gender into a binary defined by sex chromosomes is not "natural", and much state power and coercive force is being used by reactionaries (including so-called "radical feminists," who have always been on a man-hating crusade and who are targeting transgender women because they think they are simply men, and targeting transgender men for being "traitors to their sex") in order to reify these "biological categories" when people naturally do not behave according to them.

Historical societies are replete not just with crossdressing, but of full blown transgenderism, with societies on every continent sporting third genders, cross-sex individuals being socially accepted as such, even a kind of "agenderism" infused by Protestant radicalism (consider the Universal Public Friend), and so on. I guess they can all be excused, as this was before or merely contemporary with the scientific revolution, which finally settled the question as to how men and women and everyone in between should act in about 1950 or so, when they finally imaged sex chromosomes.

Well, some people didn't get the memo. A variation of intersex chromosomes, XY,46 iirc, enables people who have an X and a Y chromosome to get pregnant and give birth. So much for sex chromosomes as a justification for the gender binary as a social institution.

The more a person studies human anatomy and biology - actual biology, not prageru videos - the more they understand how stupid transphobia is and how braindead reactionary talking points on this are. Naturally in the above comments we even find anti-Semitic motifs like "the Cabal" mixed with straightforward castration anxiety (if vicarious) over the thought of sexual reassignment surgery (which most transgender women don't even opt for, by the way).

Posted by: fnord | Dec 7 2023 20:42 utc | 65

Although of course there is a biological component to womanhood: the feminine shape is brought out by estrogen, which transgender women can ingest in a variety of ways. That's one of the things that's interesting about the biological component: people with XY chrosomomes have the genetic infrastructure for a womanly shape, and it just takes hormones to switch off the genes which express in the presence of testosterone, and switch on the genes which express in the presence of estrogen.

It turns out there's a woman (and a man) inside of all of us, which maps on to the psychoanalytic observations of Carl Jung (anima/animus). Jordan Peterson, eat your heart out!

While there's a biological component to womanhood, it would be naive to reduce womanhood to this biological component. After all there are XX individuals who do not undergo hormone replacement therapy but who still act and want to be treated like men. Out of sympathy, compassion, and respect for my fellow human beings, I'm obliged to accept people like that. But at a deeper level, a social institution like gender is obviously defined by the social roles we play. This is why so many men feel disgusted doing "women's work" (even though what's traditionally seen as that has no obvious biological reason for it to be that - washing the dishes and cooking, for example, are unisex chores) or providing emotional labor to their friends (because that's "effeminate"). Reactionaries love those social aspects of gender, though. They do believe gender is a social construct, and they want to use the power of the state to institute that social construct into reality. The alternative is letting people be free and having the state adapt to the real movement of free people. How could any liberty-loving person hate transgender people? It boggles the mind.

Posted by: fnord | Dec 7 2023 20:51 utc | 66

@ malenkov | Dec 7 2023 20:22 utc | 60

Only in stand-up comedy.

Posted by: John Kennard | Dec 7 2023 21:08 utc | 67

Fox News
"China's military says its fighter jets shadowed US Navy plane over Taiwan Strait"

Just another example of China aggression, adding to the evidence that China is a genuine threat. . . ./s

Anyhow, let's look on the bright side.
South China Morning Post
"Philippines stands out [alone] in Asean over embrace of US’s Indo-Pacific strategy in the South and East China seas"

Asean: Brunei, Burma, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam -- collectively the United States' fourth-largest trading partner and together represent a market with a GDP of more than $2.9 trillion and a population of 647 million people.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 7 2023 21:10 utc | 68

The more a person studies human anatomy and biology - actual biology, not prageru videos - the more they understand how stupid transphobia is and how braindead reactionary talking points on this are. Naturally in the above comments we even find anti-Semitic motifs
Posted by: fnord | Dec 7 2023 20:42 utc | 65

No one is afraid of trans people, so your "transphobia" word is just as false as calling israelis semites.

Posted by: Michael A | Dec 7 2023 21:18 utc | 69

Nachrichten für die Provinz Deutschland, FAZ 7.12.23, Böge/Schmidt:
Raisi besucht Deutschland … In Washington wächst die Sorge, dass Teheran Moskau mit ballistischen Raketen beliefern könnte.

News for the province of Germany, FAZ 7.12.23, Böge/Schmidt:
Raisi visits Germany... Concern is growing in Washington that Tehran could supply Moscow with ballistic missiles. ...

Posted by: Oliver Krug | Dec 7 2023 21:25 utc | 70

70 oh, mistake: Raisi visits Moskow of course...

Posted by: Oliver Krug | Dec 7 2023 21:31 utc | 71

@ fnord | Dec 7 2023 20:42 utc | 65

give us your critic on this video... Adult Human Female 1 hour 30 minutes long..

Posted by: james | Dec 7 2023 21:35 utc | 72

> Historical societies are replete not just with crossdressing, but of full blown transgenderism, with societies on every continent sporting third genders


fnord, you mentioned missed memos. I believe you sat out an entire class here. Cross dressing was precisely the same tactic used to usurp control of temples from women :)

Why do you think priests the world over still go around wearing gowns? This tactic works. They know this. It worked before.

Also I read my Jung by the source and the man never even remotely suggested anything like you are implying. Anima is not some "inner women ready to be released by the blessings of the pharmeceutical industry". That is a very bizarre reading of Jung.

What seems to cause issue here is this literal reading of *feminine* and *masculine* as female and male. We are not discussing psychological tendencies -- masculine and feminine are at work here -- but rather biological organisms with distinct organs. And maybe there is hormone treatment to help a male grow a uterus but such forceful intervention actually underlines the strenuous effort required to overturn a 'natural order' as far the biological organism is concerned.

///

Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 7 2023 19:55 utc | 54

The assumption on my end being that feminist would be the likely political groupings with potential to wield power. Per ^ ancient male "non-binaries" putting on wigs and dresses and playing the role of holy prostitutes and displacing women as the mouthpieces of god(s).

Posted by: robinthehood | Dec 7 2023 21:43 utc | 73

Posted by: fnord | Dec 7 2023 20:51 utc | 65, 66

I know I will regret getting into this pigsty, but...

I get very tired of the manipulation of data to prey on the statistically illiterate. Your torrent of psuedo-philosophical bullshit and woke virtual signaling has but one concrete example - Swyer syndrome (46 XY)

XY gonadal dysgenesis, also known as Swyer syndrome, is a type of hypogonadism in a person whose karyotype is 46,XY....A 2017 study estimated that the incidence of Swyer syndrome is approximately 1 in 100,000 females.[20] Fewer than 100 cases have been reported as of 2018...Swyer syndrome was first described by G. I. M. Swyer in 1955 in a report of two cases.[21]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis

Wow, one in 100,000 incidence. Fewer than one hundred cases ever observed. That is way below orphan disease status. In fact, the incidence is miniscule to the point of being non-existent.

In the United States, the Rare Diseases Act of 2002 defines rare disease strictly according to prevalence, specifically "any disease or condition that affects fewer than 200,000 people in the United States",[5] or about 1 in 1,500 people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_disease

At 1 in 100,000, Swyer is 60 times less prevalent than the lowest definition of orphan disease. The reason they are called "orphan" is because the public puts treatment of such rare occurances at a low priority, especially if (like Swyer syndrome) they are not fatal. Four times more people in the US were struck by lighting this century than there have been Swyer syndrome cases since the disease was discovered.

From 2006 through 2021, there were 444 lightning strike deaths in the United States.

"https://www.cdc.gov/disasters/lightning/victimdata.html"

I have seen this kind of assertion against fact that something rare is actually common before. I recall some trans activists demanding special treatment for captive illegal aliens who happened to be trans. When I ran the numbers on that, it was one in 35,000.

----

Dividing gender into a binary defined by sex chromosomes is not "natural",

You have got a funny definition of natural. It seems to exclude all societies at all times up until the globalists funded the woke squad to disrupt society at its most basic level - the body.

Posted by: john brewster | Dec 7 2023 21:56 utc | 74

identity / gender
Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 14:22 utc | 1
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 7 2023 16:26 utc | 31
Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 7 2023 19:55 utc | 54

Thank you for your input, and thank you b....

I have a hunch that we in the west are living in a facist world- but i can not articulate it- i still not have been able to connect all the the dots.

The complete media dominance, the censur- But the woke and gender?

The BLM demonstrations in portland and jan 6, french youth protest this summer- that was government maidanligth.

But still, why is the us destroying their own military with woke and gender?

Is it the City of Londons masters that now think that they can stand on their own feets? No defence/ offensive forces needed?

PLS: enligthen me

Posted by: Paul from Norway | Dec 7 2023 22:02 utc | 75

Russia Calling: "Russia Calling: "Life Without Globalization: Uniting Sovereign Economies"" is a much shorter read than usual. Lots of important material, IMO.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 7 2023 22:07 utc | 76

No one is afraid of trans people, so your "transphobia" word is just as false as calling israelis semites.
Posted by: Michael A | Dec 7 2023 21:18 utc | 69

That explains the series of recent laws and proclamations in Russia criminalizing trans-people.

Posted by: Zargo | Dec 7 2023 22:07 utc | 77

Posted by: Noël's Queen | Dec 7 2023 19:57 utc | 55

Could you please provide a summary or "book report" (or just a guide on how to read) of this prior to us reading it? I clicked on it and it seems a jumble of disjointed posts talking about various US weapons systems being sent to Ukraine. What does it all mean, please?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 7 2023 22:17 utc | 78

Posted by: Paul from Norway | Dec 7 2023 22:02 utc | 75

Inasmuch as the so-called "woke agenda" is being embraced by one of the dominant political factions in a western country, it's merely another cudgel or wedge with the ultimate goal of keeping the working class divided against itself over an issue that otherwise affects a tiny portion of the population, much like "anti-semitism" where Jews comprise less than 3% of the whole and Zionist Jews probably less than 2%.

"Woke" is a very simple concept as originally conceived by Black Americans. It simply meant that some White people were aware of the actual history and "awake" to its ramifications on the present. History denial is a major component of the ruling class's command and control structure in "democratic" and "free" societies.

As soon as you see major corporations, militaries, media giants and political parties pushing the "woke agenda" (after previously strenuously fighting against it, i.e., Colin Kapernick), it should be obvious that it's been corrupted and bent toward the use of the financial and political elite and no more than a wedge issue and/or marketing/PR ploy. With the goal always being keeping us plebes fighting with each other rather than against our unelected rulers.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 7 2023 22:22 utc | 79

Empire in end days.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67612233

A tragic tale of public servants driven to suicide.

An ‘independently’ assessed professional public servant driven to despair as part of the privatisation of public services over the last 40 years of neoliberal, globalisation world owned by a few.

Devil take the rest of us is what they want.

Resist.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 7 2023 22:37 utc | 80

fnord shows up to save everyone thousands of dollars, by spouting the gender studies garbage taught in colleges, thereby sparing us from enduring it in a class.

I note that he ignores the plight of women in prisons, rape centers, school locker rooms, sports, and showers, ignores the thought and speech policing coming down from the ruling class onto ordinary people, male and female, ignores the erasing of women from written and spoken speech and policies, ignores the violence dished out onto women who understand biological reality....all to blather about historical cross-dressing, and the ability of estrogen to widen the hips and narrow the shoulders of men who ingest it (just as wrong as everything else he says.)

Intersex is no longer used as a description of people whose sexual development in utero (oops, I said "utero"! Call the Thought Police!) goes awry. The term used now is DSD, Disorders of Sexual Development, a category that includes people whose defects show up at birth and those who don't know until they are unable to reproduce and go for genetic testing.

There is no such thing as someone who produces both gametes, male and female. Your body is organized to produce the small mobile gametes (male) or the large immobile gametes (female). This goes for all animals who reproduce sexually, not just humans.
Pretending that there is now a special category for human biology, one that takes into account the sexual fetishes of some men, is simply a lie.
Sexual reproduction is the same as it ever was. Only the ruling class propaganda has changed.

fnord illustrated perfectly what robinthehood pointed out earlier, "Woman, per the new identity doctrines, has been reduced to an orifice and behavioral mannerisms", when he claims woman is "a social grouping, based on social relations between individuals who have certain things in common, and who society trains and expects to behave in certain ways."

Balderdash.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 7 2023 22:40 utc | 81

"Sex is biological and 99.98 percent of humans are either straight up male or female with no ambiguities. It's determined at conception and fertilization, and is observable in every cell, every system, all our hormones, every organ, and in our entire biology. Sex is not assigned, it's observed as a physical, material, and biological fact. Ultimately it's all about the gametes. If you produce sperm you are male. If you produce ova you are female. No human was ever born without the haploid contribution of both male and female gametes.
And as regards intersex, this occurs in about 0.017 percent of humans and every case is a disorder of sexual development of either a male or a female. We have a ton of good data and the DSD categories are well understood genetically. These are the six biological karyotype sex disorders that do not result in immediate death to the fetus:
X – Roughly 1 in 2,000 to 1 in 5,000 people (Turner’s )
XX – Most common form of female
XXY – Roughly 1 in 500 to 1 in 1,000 people (Klinefelter)
XY – Most common form of male
XYY – Roughly 1 out of 1,000 people
XXXY – Roughly 1 in 18,000 to 1 in 50,000 births
"If you are 46, XX, you are female. If you are 45, XO, you are still female, but with Turner syndrome. 47 XXX, 48XXXX and 49XXXXX, aren't a spectrum of femaleness, they are classified as female chromosomal disorders. If you are 46, XY, you are male. If you are 47, XXY, you are male, but with Kleinfelter syndrome. If you are 48, XXYY, you are male, but with XXYY syndrome. 48,XXXY, 49,XXXXY. All are still male. These aren't on a spectrum - they are categorized as male genetic disorders. They aren't considered intersex conditions, but a lot of trans activists like to claim they are.
If someone had trisonomy 21, we don't say they are on a human spectrum of any sort, we classify them as having Down syndrome.
Intersex conditions by themselves can exist in a spectrum, but only in relation to the severity of that specific condition. But even over that spectrum they have clearly defined categories. Androgen insensitivity syndrome is someone who is genetically male, but their reproductive organs don't masculinize. It has 3 categories of severity.
There is no spectrum gradient between male and male with androgen insensitivity syndrome. These are clearly defined categories. There is no spectrum gradient between female and androgen insensitivity syndrome. You are either in the category female or category male with androgen insensitivity syndrome. There is no spectrum gradient between having an intersex condition and not.
If you have all the typical indicators of your sex, you are that sex, you are in that category. If you are born with the number and type of sex chromosomes off from your external genitalia, with unmatching or mixed type of gonads, with ambiguous internal reproductive anatomy; and/or ambiguous external genitalia, then you are in the intersex category. There is NO spectrum gradient or overlap between being typical male and having an intersex condition."
Bottom line: Intersex is a specific set of individual genetic disorders of sexual development - not a third sex or a collection of different sexes.

If you want, please feel free to copy and save this comment for later reference. It's complex and difficult to remember off the top of your head if you do not know the biology inside and out. And lots of people will try to confuse you with their ideological bullshit. The science is clear and the data is not confused."

Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 7 2023 22:42 utc | 82

Balderdash.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Dec 7 2023 22:40 utc | 81

I would argue that without detailed and specific examples, the talk about trans people assaulting women and girls in prisons, restrooms, locker rooms, etc. as though it's a major society spanning problem is balderdash.

Furthermore, in each case it would be important to point out how a person's status as "trans" played into the situation and their ability to commit the act without having otherwise been possible.

In the past I've looked into some of these alleged cases and come away less than convinced if not completely in disagreement.

But again, here we are arguing over what I would guess is a complete non-issue to us personally or anyone we know, except in the case of "trans" people being harassed, beaten or discriminated against rather than being the perpetrators of physical and emotional abuse against women or girls.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 7 2023 22:44 utc | 83

As someone who grew up in the Soviet Union I find the similarities between 1980s Soviet Union and present day US striking:

1. Elderly leaders:
Brezhnev, Andropov, Chernenko
Trump, Biden, (Trump, Biden)

2. Defunct prevailing ideology that no one really believes in
Socialism
Wokeism

3. Eroding real economy
Inefficiency and apathy of Soviet economy
Financialization of US economy

4. Eroding military strength
Defeat in Afghanistan
Defeat in Afghanistan

5. Financial difficulties
Oil prize drop in 1980s
Unsustainable budget deficit

Soviet Union had the second largest economy in 1980s, 5 years later it ceased to exist.

Posted by: George | Dec 7 2023 22:48 utc | 84

wagelaborer | Dec 7 2023 19:55 utc | 54
Thanks, thanks(81) and thanks(82) again

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 22:49 utc | 85

#3... what's going to happen in Guyana/Venezuela. Nothing much. What you have is something like the Malvinas (minus the war) where it's on Argentinian maps as part of the Province of Tierra del Fuego... i.e. Essequibo will be on Venenezuelan maps as a state. There will be craptons of legal papers going back and forth, a few occasional miltiary actions (attempts to seize each other's drilling sites), but the US cannot intervene without serious diplomatic and social anti-American moves throughout Latin America, and Venezuela can get around sanctions (the favorite tool of US policy in Latin America) without too much trouble.

As it is, the vast majority of the residents in the disputed area (and it's very, very few people to begin with) have much sense of being in one or another country.

Most likely, despite tensions, the whole thing is just going to end up in some sort of odd "profit sharing agreement" over the resources... both oil and minerals.

Posted by: Alta4710 | Dec 7 2023 22:50 utc | 86

Norwegian @58, Right. With friends like the US, who needs enemas?

Posted by: Immaculate deception | Dec 7 2023 23:01 utc | 87

Ha! Gotcha!!

Pearls before swine. Always the best bait to bring the bacon home. 😉

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 7 2023 23:09 utc | 88

" As someone who grew up in the Soviet Union I find the similarities between 1980s Soviet Union and present day US striking:

Soviet Union had the second largest economy in 1980s, 5 years later it ceased to exist.

Posted by: George | Dec 7 2023 22:48 utc | 84 "


Many similarities, but one massive, overwhelming, difference. The Soviet Union was composed of a mainly homogenous group of people with a shared, history, religion, and believe systems. The US is composed of competing groups who , ultimately, dont want to be around each other. Meaning, the collapse of the US will be a bloodbath once the various factions no longer feel threatened by the collapsing US security apparatus.

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 7 2023 23:14 utc | 90

Dear B

Sorry for asking for new threads, this one has put on a skirt and heels and singing “I will survive”

The Palestine thread has more foreskins than a rabi’s mouth.

Clean up with extreme prejudice please.

Some useful discussion can still come out of the Venezuela and Germany angles, but the rest, just nuke it from orbit.


Posted by: Newbie | Dec 7 2023 23:21 utc | 91

Posted by: Newbie | Dec 7 2023 23:21 utc | 91

Maybe start your own blog?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 7 2023 23:33 utc | 92

@ Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 7 2023 23:33 utc | 92

lol..

@ wagelaborer

i kind of agree with you in a lot of your commentary and posts.. are you a women? it doesn't matter, but i am curious.. sounds like you are.. the video i shared @ 72 says much the same thing.. i doubt fnord will watch it, but hope springs eternal..

Posted by: james | Dec 7 2023 23:42 utc | 93

Re Zenz and the "Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, an American anti-communist propaganda shop founded by an act of Congress,"

pro anti-communists and china-haters must be suffering, given that Communism has largely disappeared from the world (even N. Korea is slipping out). The fact that ordinary people in China are prospering while ordinary Americans get poorer and poorer must burn some butss, too.

Posted by: lester | Dec 7 2023 23:45 utc | 94

@ 92

I think I should change my moninker to ProudlyIntact on account of some peoples' raging paranoia.

Posted by: NemesisCalling | Dec 7 2023 23:46 utc | 95

Moonie @ 90:

Actually the Soviet Union was one of the most ethnically diverse nations on Earth, with up to 164 different ethnic groups, while it lasted. The major ethnic group (Russians) constituted something like 50% of the population.

Even without the Baltic republics, the Transcaucasian republics and the Central Asian states, the Russian Federation is still highly varied ethnically, culturally and religiously. All of these groups have had to learn to live with one another and tolerate one another's differences over the centuries. There may still be inter-ethnic or inter-religious conflicts and Western intel agencies try to identify and exploit them using stooges inside the country. All such conflicts require negotiating and compromise rather than one side trying to dominate and repress the other side.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Dec 8 2023 0:09 utc | 96

https://monthlyreview.org/2023/12/01/imperialist-propaganda-and-the-ideology-of-the-western-left-intelligentsia/

Posted by: bevin | Dec 7 2023 14:22 utc | 1


Thanks. I was finally able to finish the article/interview. Very informative and it bears re-posting. It's difficult to overstate how many modern lephtists don't know the history.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 8 2023 0:14 utc | 97

Tom_Q_Collins @83: "I would argue that without detailed and specific examples, the talk about trans people assaulting women and girls in prisons, restrooms, locker rooms, etc. as though it's a major society spanning problem is balderdash."

If it happens once because people like you try to dismiss it, that is too much. Unfortunately, it is happening with surprising frequency.

In reality, the vast majority of "trans" people are seriously mentally disturbed. Having sexually related mental disorders doesn't automatically make men a threat others, but it dramatically increases the probability.

Did you know there have already been major women's athletic competitions where all three of the competitors on the winners' stand have been biological males? Pretending it isn't happening make you complicit.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 8 2023 0:41 utc | 98

Those who've been looking forward to the collapse of the west's economic system shouldn't have to wait much later. Trillions in digital wealth should
disappear almost overnight. Like a drunk or addict that finally 'bottoms out' & recognizes that his old ways will kill him if he doesn't change.
Will that mark the end of the rein of the ruling elite?

US Debt per citizenis now ~101K; per tax payer $260K... in our "faith based economic system"

THE BULL ‘ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM’: EXPONENTIAL GROWTH
6 December 2023 by Bob Bishop
https://sonar21.com/the-bull-elephant-in-the-room-exponential-growth/

First paragraph:


On September 18, 2023, the U.S. national debt crossed $33 trillion. It will reach $34 trillion in late December, a little over 90 days. It took the U.S. over 200 years to have national debt exceed $1 trillion. The national debt now exceeds gross domestic production by 122%. The U.S. government’s 2023 expenditure ratio is 23% of GDP, creating an economy dependent on money printing. The last time the government had a surplus was in 2001, and the last time it paid down treasury debt was in 1961. The runaway high deficits are due to the U.S.’s exorbitant privilege of treasuries being the primary global reserve asset.

"It is perhaps well enough that the people of the Nation do not know or understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
Attributed to Henry Ford in 1937

Posted by: tob | Dec 8 2023 0:41 utc | 99

This conservative blogger, Sundance of conservative treehouse, believes the sanctions against Russia etc. are actually about containing / isolating the US in preparation for a switch to a new digital financial system (and the end of common law and the bill of rights etc), in other words the Infamous Reset.

Though hard to believe, it's not a ridiculous thesis.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 8 2023 0:56 utc | 100

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