Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 2, 2023
Israel Plans For Long War And The Expulsion Of People From Gaza

There are several new report on how the Zionist want to continue their killing spree in Gaza (and beyond it).

Israel Planning for Gaza War To Last Over a YearAntiwar

The Financial Times reported speaking with sources who said that Israel plans to wage war on Gaza for over a year. In a little less than two months, Israel has killed at least 15,000 people, damaged 100,000 buildings, displaced 1.7 million Palestinians, and destroyed most of Gaza’s medical facilities.

On Friday, FT reported sources said Israel was preparing for a multi-phase conflict in Gaza that will last at least a year. “This will be a very long war…We’re currently not near halfway to achieving our objectives,” said one person familiar with the Israeli war plans.

According to the sources, Israel’s goals include “killing the three top Hamas leaders — Yahya Sinwar, Mohammed Deif, and Marwan Issa — while securing a decisive military victory against the group’s 24 battalions and underground tunnel network and destroying its governing capability in Gaza.”

The first phase of the war, an intense bombing campaign and ground invasion, is expected to last well into 2024. One source said the first phase of the war is about 40% complete. “Gaza City isn’t finished yet, nor fully conquered. It’s probably 40% done,” the person explained. “For the north as a whole, it will probably require another two weeks to a month.”

The second phase will be an operation with fewer military operations aimed at stabilizing Gaza. While the sources told FT that the second phase is projected to continue until late 2024, Israeli officials say they cannot predict a firm endpoint to the conflict.

A long war means that Israel will lose more and more international support.

The trend will become even stronger when Israel starts to kill all 'Hamas people' across the world.

The Biden administration claims to have pressured Israel to murder less people. But it then turns around and delivers more and bigger weapons.

U.S. Sends Israel 2,000-Pound Bunker Buster Bombs for Gaza War (archived) – WSJ

The surge of arms, including roughly 15,000 bombs and 57,000 artillery shells, began shortly after the Oct. 7 attack and has continued in recent days, the officials said. The U.S. hasn’t previously disclosed the total number of weapons it sent to Israel nor the transfer of 100 BLU-109, 2,000-pound bunker buster bombs.

Among the munitions the U.S. has transferred to Israel are more than 5,000 Mk82 unguided or “dumb” bombs, more than 5,400 Mk84 2,000 pound warhead bombs, around 1,000 GBU-39 small diameter bombs, and approximately 3,000 JDAMs, which turn unguided bombs into guided “smart” bombs, according to an internal U.S. government list of the weapons described to The Wall Street Journal by U.S. officials.

The U.S. has also sent Israel roughly 57,000 155mm artillery shells – a key munition the U.S. has also provided Ukraine since the 2022 Russian invasion – along with thousands of other artillery shells and various small arms.

The U.N., humanitarian agencies, and Arab countries mediating negotiations between the two sides have called for a permanent cease-fire. The Biden administration has rejected calls for a long-term cease-fire and expressed support for Israel’s fight to ultimately uproot Hamas from power in Gaza.

Dropping 'bunker busters' (which can not bust Hamas' real command bunkers) onto the densely populated Gaza strip is mass murder. Moreover doing so based on faulty 'artificial intelligence' decisions is dumb.

A Hebrew paper says there are new plans to push Gazans out but that these are controversial even within the war cabinet.

The Prime Minister's Plan for Gaza Citizens: The Direction-OutIsrael Hayom (slightly edited machine translation)

The emergency government is broadcasting uniformly about the resumption of fighting, but as for the day after – the story is different • Besides the issue of control of the Gaza Strip, there is also expected to be controversy over a plan formulated by Ron Dermer at Netanyahu's request, examining ways to dilute the population of Gaza to a minimum • For the prime minister, this is a strategic goal, the top security official sees it as an unrealistic fantasy

The issue of the day after is one of the most sensitive today, and the issue is not dealt with in any official forum but only in internal consultations. If there is a significant point of contention with the Biden administration on the Gaza issue, it is this one. Other things can be manipulated. Bring in humanitarian aid at the request of the American president, and even fuel. Even the new demand not to cause harm to the displaced people in the southern Gaza Strip when the IDF starts operating there can be met with a non-binding statement that "we will try".

But getting Abu Mazen into Gaza to replace the IDF forces in the territory is a different story altogether. Benny Gantz and Gadi Eizenkot would have happily do so. Benjamin Netanyahu and Yoav Galant less so. The commonality is that they all send a message that Israel has no intention of controlling the territory itself from a civilian standpoint. Gallant means it in all seriousness. As for Netanyahu, I'm not sure. His clear statements that a terrorist-supporting authority that transfers salaries to terrorists and educates its children to incitement against Jews will not rule Gaza will not allow the Ramallah gang to enter Gaza. There is no other replacement. Hence, the IDF will continue to control Gaza, military and civilian, at least for the foreseeable future.

This is followed by another plan. Most cabinet ministers don't know about it. Nor are War cabinet ministers. It was not discussed in these forums because of its obvious explosive effect: diluting Gaza's population to the bare minimum. Biden is strongly opposed, as is the entire international community. Galant, the Chief of staff and the IDF Chief of Staff claim that there is no such possibility. But Netanyahu sees it as a strategic goal. He even tasked his War Cabinet trustee, Minister Ron Dermer, to formulate a staff paper on the matter.

This is a plan that will bypass the American resistance without confrontation, the resolute resistance of the Egyptians without starting to shoot the refugees entering their territory through the Philadelphia axis, and the general global resistance that will arise when the first Gazans leave their homes and migrate elsewhere.

Refugees in war zones are common. Tens of millions of refugees have left war zones across the globe in the past decade alone. From Syria to Ukraine. All had addresses in countries that agreed to accept them as a humanitarian gesture. So why should Gaza be any different?

This is not about the transfer, but the release of the chokehold within Gaza's borders. While the crossings to Israel remain sealed, there are other options. Rafah is one of them, despite Egypt's fierce opposition. This transition, at times, has been open and open. Today, there is also an underground crossing between Rafah in Gaza and the Egyptian one with the dimensions of a highway. The sea is also open to the Gazans. In its will, Israel opens the sea passage and allows mass escape to European and African countries.

In the context of Gaza emigration, the gaps between members of the government are vast. While Smotrich, Ben Gvir and quite a few Likud ministers see this as a necessity, others like Galant, Gantz and Eisenkot see it as something between an unrealistic fantasy and a despicable and immoral plan.

With every new daily report about blocked aid and more death in Gaza more U.S. voters will reject such brutal policies. Few outside of Israel support such plans. Most Biden voter wont. If Biden does not pressure Netanyhoo to end the slaughter he will very likely lose the election.

So if Joe Biden really wants to have another presidency he will have to stop Netanyahoo from pursuing a long war in Gaza and from pushing the Palestinian population out of the strip. Netanyahoo does not care if Biden stays in office. He can live well with Donald Trump replacing him. The only way Biden can really stop Netanyahoo is by denying him weapons, ammunition and financial support.

How long will it take him to do so?

Comments

@ Damien | Dec 2 2023 19:18 utc | 98
Your account is appreciated. You’re no doubt responding to “fake james” — just so you know. I’m pretty sure the real james is not an appalling moron.

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 2 2023 19:31 utc | 101

karlof1 | Dec 2 2023 19:00 utc | 91
It will be interesting to see what comes next. Many players now taking a place at the Grand Chessboard. Hudson’s several decades of turbulence. Or the wild thrashings of a dying empire… same thing I guess. The death and destruction that come with this, as with past historical times of turbulence are something Russia and China understand but the anglo west does not. An interesting comment here

The Sirius Report
@thesiriusreport
Nothing to see here:
Chinese, Iranian and Russian naval forces are set to hold joint exercises in the Persian Gulf.
In addition delegates from Brazil, India, Oman, Pakistan, South Africa and the Caspian Sea littoral states have been invited to participate in the exercises as observers.

Boomerangs strike back…

The Sirius Report
@thesiriusreport
The worst kept secret:
The US arrogantly and ignorantly assumed it could destroy Huawei and now it’s facing the realisation that Huawei could develop a future stranglehold on the chip market for China and by extension friendly nations.
Classic example of Washington creating a fictious bogeyman for their own ulterior motives only to find it fails and ultimately comes back to bite them hard.
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-china-huawei-semiconductor/?s=09

That alongside some western media now admitting Is now economically and in every way stronger now than prior to the sanctions from hell that were predicted to destroy Russia in a few months.
Hybrid war in the nuclear age. The problem of taking down nuclear armed suicide bombers. Not good to watch too closely. Trees and the forest type thing.
The Chinese Russian joint statement had meaning as did Lavrov accepting the challenge of hybrid war. There has been a number of statements since then by both Russia and China about defending small nations that come under various forms of attack by empire.
It is terrible watching what is happening to Palestinians at the moment but one thing is for sure is that they will survive as a people and become a recognized state.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 19:46 utc | 102

About plans by Israel to target kill leaders of Hamas abroad, one should remember the time when (in 2006) the so called omniscient Mossad kidnapped Hassan Nasrallah – except that it was not the leader of Hizbullah, but a greengrocer in Southern Lebanon. So much for those who believe in the supernatural powers of Israeli intelligence. They did not even know that Hassan and Nasrallah are far from being uncommon names.
.

Posted by: Zina -onz | Dec 2 2023 19:51 utc | 103

To add to my 105
In 2014, Israel launched its attack on Gaza while western media attention and the goldfish that read it were focused on MH17. Not so this time. Israel, like so many others will simply fade away or disappear completely with the inevitable defeat of the Empire of Lies.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 19:51 utc | 104

To: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 16:58 utc | 50

Like Zelensky, Biden is a consumable. His re-election does not matter. He will simply be replaced by another consumable preaching hope and change or whatever. US presidency is now no more than a puppet, a mascot to bedazzle the peasants. The deep state will ensure no more Trump’s/outsiders gain the throne in the Empire of Lies.

I agree, mostly, except Trump is not an outsider. He is a) either a different faction or just both sides
Biden and Trump simply got the job of mocking the concept of democracy and bringing the country down by
infighting and dividing the country (one is demented and the other a TV troll). Trump neither closed
Guantanamo prison and his support for Israel is just the same. Go figure.
And regarding the deep state, it depends how you define it. The deep state doesn’t control Trump, Trump
is the deep state. As is Biden. Someone controls the deep state, and the media, and they are part of that
club. Trump is related to the ketchup Heinz. Biden is related to Keving Spacey. And Kevin Spacey is
is related to Winston Churchill. Van der Leyen is an Albrecht. And those go back to Knop. Wouldn’t
surprise me, if they all are related. Netanjahu’s mother side is a Segal. Like a lower level Levy or
Cohen.

Posted by: C | Dec 2 2023 19:52 utc | 105

There is no effective Arabian solidarity. Young Arab cpnsumers care more for cloth beands an shopping. The same is in EU and USA. Palestinians are unfortunatelly to be genocided by Israel.

Posted by: zorge | Dec 2 2023 19:54 utc | 106

fake james has become the equivalent of where’s waldo
just wondering james if you could please wear a red and white striped sweater and touque to your next performance and post it on youtube as a shout out to the bar.

Posted by: ld | Dec 2 2023 19:56 utc | 107

C | Dec 2 2023 19:52 utc | 108
His deletion from all media including social media means he was an outsider. That does not make him a good bloke.
He was likely a zionist, but also he may or more likely was like RFK in that regard – The unsinkable aircraft carrier that gives the US a bridgehead to control Persian Gulf oil. Trump likes his oil. And like most Americans, hates communism, specially when it is doing better than American decadence and debauchery. Filled with American exceptionalism but at least he was a little more sane and realist than the ruling crop of the deep state.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 20:00 utc | 108

Hi scorpion
Yes I agree with you, but the last semblance of any kind of Democracy ended with billy boy. I didn’t feel like going all the way back to the founders. Lazy I guess.
I had a long discussion about this with my other half, about where this goes it was not a happy one it makes me really sad for my kids.

Posted by: Susan | Dec 2 2023 20:01 utc | 109

As we watch this, it is worth remembering apartheid South Africa and what occurred with the end of apartheid. The was a mass migration of white South Africans to other countries. Exactly the same will occur with Israel before this is all done and dusted.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 20:06 utc | 110

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 2 2023 18:21 utc | 77
Except the ones ordering the genocide are not american politicians. They are the Israelis. The “ball capture status” of american voters is irrelevant.

Posted by: The Fox | Dec 2 2023 20:07 utc | 111

@ ld | Dec 2 2023 19:56 utc | 110
lol… i am doing a christmas gig later today and then another one even later – just a party gig.. i tend to not post anything on youtube or any of the social media places.. too toxic, lol… i am wearing a christmas hat today though.. its a bit early, but what the hay..

Posted by: james | Dec 2 2023 20:12 utc | 112

Posted by: james | Dec 2 2023 20:12 utc | 116
aww lol
we did get the one a couple of years ago where your talents were revealed to all
Fantastico!
Break a leg My Dear

Posted by: ld | Dec 2 2023 20:16 utc | 113

Truly shocking that the government’s desire to execute ethnic cleansing at best and genocide at worst is openly discussed in major newspapers with only a veneer of euphemisms. Aren’t we proud of Joe Biden for debating whether ethnic cleansing and/or genocide is acceptable? What a fucking statesman. And again, this is not the ravings of some fascist group in Israel, it’s serious government policy discussion.
B’s correct of course, allowing this is a poison pill for Biden and the Dems come election time with only the excuse that “trump would be worse” as a defense. That won’t be enough to bring the necessary youth and Muslim vote out for him.

Posted by: Lex | Dec 2 2023 20:20 utc | 114

I had a long discussion about this with my other half, about where this goes it was not a happy one it makes me really sad for my kids.
Posted by: Susan | Dec 2 2023 20:01 utc | 112
My other half and the kids have all followed off after the pied piper. The kids will live and learn I guess. No longer kids. All adults in their thirties now.
When my son was about eight, we were renting a farm house. The farmer was a good bloke and when he was working nearby my son would accompany him they would talk all the time. The farmer used to tellim him a few jokes and so forth then one day he told my son that if you plant a feather you can grow a chook. He came and told me, and I tried to convince him otherwise, but he was adamant “No dad, Ken said so”. A week or so later he comes home and asks me about trouser snakes as Ken had asked if he had seen one. I had a think about this this told him to ask his teacher. That was a mean thing to do as she was old, as far as I know a spinster well into he sixties and very old school hard line.
I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall as when I asked my son what the teacher said about trouser snakes, he would not say a word. But never again did he blindly believe what the the farmer told him.
Same with the children around water when they were young. When they would fall in, I would let them choke and splutter for a bit before pulling them out. That only occurred once or twice for each. Lessons like that seem to last.
Whether or not I will be around once they have learnt this major lesson in life only time will tell.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 20:24 utc | 115

Peter AU 1 @ 113:
Your comment poses an intriguing question but it is based on an assumption that whatever white South Africans did and are still doing (or not doing) after the end of apartheid is a good predictor of what Israelis may do after Israel fails as a state and is replaced by a new state.
Was apartheid in South Africa grounded in an ideology that proclaimed whites as a chosen people, and the land of South Africa as one given by God to His chosen people? If it had been, might South African whites have fought harder and longer, and might they have fought more savagely and viciously to maintain apartheid?
It may be too early to tell, and perhaps another generation or two may have to pass, before we can say that what white South Africans have done, post-apartheid, bears comparison with the flight of Nazis and their collaborators after WW2 to orher countries, and that their example can be used to predict what Israelis will do after the state of Israel either ceases to exist or is transformed into somerhing else.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Dec 2 2023 20:25 utc | 116

Áobh Ó’Sheachnasaigh | Dec 2 2023 18:51 utc | 88
The Saudis are too silent.
The Saudis are an extension of the British Empire and are part and parcel of the Anglo-American Zionist entity. The Oil embargo of the ’70’s was designed to get themselves and others very wealthy. It has been their only response to Zionism since it started. The only thing they will do is offer to provide money to resettle Palestinians anywhere but Saudi Arabia.
Analysis: Britain helped create Saudi Arabia – the Establishment won’t give up their influence without a fight

Posted by: circumspect | Dec 2 2023 20:28 utc | 117

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 20:06 utc | 113
Not sure I’d call it “migration” – vast majority already have at least a second passport.

Posted by: blueswede | Dec 2 2023 20:29 utc | 118

thanks id! much appreciated and back at you with your poetry…
here is a link to roger boyds latest post.. i highly recommend moa posters subscribe to his substack dispatches…
MAGA: Make America Go Away
The Dispensable Nation

Posted by: james | Dec 2 2023 20:30 utc | 119

these are terrorists and israel has the right to defend herself
Posted by: james | Dec 2 2023 20:11 utc | 115
Like fuck. Israel shouldn’t even exist, it’s nothing more than a colonial project and it will go the way of Algeria, sooner or later.
And if they were indeed terrorists, Isn’treal would deserve it just the same.
Nobody else has an obligation to entertain the delusions and abuse that supremacists are known to engage in.

Posted by: Arganthonios | Dec 2 2023 20:30 utc | 120

Refinnejenna | Dec 2 2023 20:25 utc | 121
Israel is backed by a dying empire. Palestine is backed by Russia and China. This is now center stage in hybrid WWIII.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 20:30 utc | 121

the harder and longer Israel goes at Gaza, the sooner Israel itself will cease to exist as an apartheid state or at all.
Posted by: Moses22 | Dec 2 2023 14:39 utc | 8
Thank you, Moses. If there is to be an Israel in future, it must be far different from this distorted version.
Netanyahu is an insane and evil man. I do not believe in capital punishment, but he should be tried and locked up for the rest of his days. To have killed innocent civilians is bad enough; to have deliberately killed children is the worst crime possible.
Everything else pales, falls by the wayside. And those complicit with him must be tried with the same just punishment accorded the worst offenders.
God have mercy on his soul.

Posted by: juliania | Dec 2 2023 20:32 utc | 122

To: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 20:00 utc | 111
His deletion from all media including social media means he was an outsider.

he may or more likely was like RFK in that regard

You can see Trump that way. And yet, he is still in the news and was non stop. He is so terrible, they
love to report about him.
And RFK. You know what the F stands for? Fitzgerald. The Fitz Geralds. Irish nobility. Goes all the way
back to Wilhelm the Conqueror. Who goes back 5 generations directly to Rollo, the norman/viking.
And who knows who that one is from. In school I learned JFKs father was a mafia mob boss. Far from it.
I wouldn’t trust this family as far as I can piss. Just talking of deep state. Those assassination
stories are such a shit show, doesn’t automatically make them a hero family all of a sudden. Who knows
what happened there really.

Posted by: C | Dec 2 2023 20:34 utc | 123

Arganthonios | Dec 2 2023 20:30 utc | 125
When replying to fake james, address it thus – Posted by: fake james | Dec 2 2023 20:11 utc | 115

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 20:37 utc | 124

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Dec 2 2023 20:25 utc | 121
I’m sure there is a (very) small segment of the population in Occupied Palestine that believe the fairy tales of thousands of years ago. Likewise their supporters in evangelical xian circles in the US.
However, the majority – especially in the oligarchy of control – use the fairy tales as a nifty little magic wand to enforce their machinery of control of the people and their land/wealth. The same kind of mindset that enabled slavery and genocide to create many western countries, especially the US.
The more people see through the smokescreen the better which seems to be the case now that it’s nearly impossible to hide the truth like it was when cameras and reports weren’t omnipresent.

Posted by: hedlykarok | Dec 2 2023 20:41 utc | 125

Sorry Au1, RFK, I imagined JFK. You mean Jr.? But yeah, never trusted RFK Jr., and he has proven it so fast. But I wonder what the Francis stands for.
PS. and yeah, I think Trump offers a good show. Anything is better than Biden. But to trust or put hope
in any of them, that’s what they want.

Posted by: C | Dec 2 2023 20:42 utc | 126

C | Dec 2 2023 20:34 utc | 128
That about covers my thoughts on the American shit show. The Keenedies though are more Irish mafia types and Irish catholic I believe, whereas the deep state, and that covers all of five-eyes, not just the US is anglo protestant centric. Doesn’t mean all a protestant of course, just anglo protestant centric. Or perhaps the Holy Roman Empire of the treaties is a better description of the five-eyes deep state and their puppets/frontmen…

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 20:47 utc | 127

No reference to which article, left to replies to find out:
The Jerusalem Post
@Jerusalem_Post
Over the weekend, we shared an article based on faulty sourcing. The article in question did not meet our editorial standards and was thus removed.
We take this matter seriously and will be handling it internally in order to prevent similar incidents from reoccurring.
We regret this incident and remain committed to upholding the highest journalistic standards at all times.
https://twitter.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/1730991247416766516
:

Posted by: Menz | Dec 2 2023 20:51 utc | 128

Rami Jarrah
@RamiJarrah
BREAKING:
Professor Sufian Tayeh, who headed the largest university in #Gaza, killed in an Israeli airstrike on the Jabalia refugee camp.
He was ranked among the top 2% of researchers globally & was appointed UNESCO chair for Physical & Astrophysical sciences in Palestine.
https://twitter.com/RamiJarrah/status/1730928859837522209

Posted by: Menz | Dec 2 2023 20:58 utc | 129

From Norman Finkelstein’s Substack:
Mouin Rabbani: A Post-Ceasefire Analysis
Posted by: tawharanui | Dec 2 2023 15:30 utc | 28

“I suspect that within the next week or so we will see a new truce agreement. It is likely to be more extended than the previous one, and see complex negotiations about further exchanges of captives. These could break down and result in a new round of warfare, but that too is likely to be short and sharp.”
I find this scenario the most realistic. Zionist Apartheid regime couldn’t achieve any valuable military achievement in the first 50 days of the war and can not afford another 50 days of genocide. They will be forced to negotiation table again.
I believe also that US is going to pay a higher price compared to the first round of the war, maybe something similar to “Global Hawk”, “Eyn-al-Asad” or “Aramco” moments.

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 2 2023 21:04 utc | 130

A fascist state is when private individuals take over the power of government for their own enrichment. We normally think of these individuals as corporations but they really don’t have the power to achieve complete government control; create a fully fascist state.
That level of control of the USA was achieved by the Israeli Zionist using their enforcement arm, AIPAC. If the Zionists can get a Zionist US President elected plus control both houses of congress, they have achieved that level of control. If any member of congress steps out of line, the Zionists will spend enormous amounts of money to primary that person out of office for the smallest infraction. If the media steps out of line, their Zionist fascist corporate buddies will take away a chunk of their advertising revenue, just ask Elon Musk.
With this level of Zionist control, US democracy is dead. You can choose between Zionists presidential candidates Joe Biden, Donald Trump or Robert F Kennedy Jr. There will be no discussion of this because our free press is also gone. The Israeli Zionists are inflicting genocide against 7.2 million Palestinians. The USA will do nothing since they enabled the Israeli genocide with money and weapons.
How many Palestinians can the Zionist get away with killing before their 1.5 billion Arab neighbors decide to put a stop to it? The Arabs have enough advanced weapons to take out the Zionists military and economic infrastructure plus sink an aircraft carrier or two in a matter of hours; a world war. A better option may be for the Arabs to cut off the oil supply to the west crashing the western fascist global economy. If the Zionists then decide to continue the genocide, the US, to save its global economy, could pull out their naval presence allowing the Arabs to finally take out Israel once and for all, short of a world war. Is anyone in favor of a two-state solution based on the 1967 borders with all the Zionists out of Palestine, enforced with an Arab military security arrangement to contain Israeli Zionist aggression?

Posted by: Alayna | Dec 2 2023 21:04 utc | 131

re Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 20:06 utc | 113
“As we watch this, it is worth remembering apartheid South Africa and what occurred with the end of apartheid. The was a mass migration of white South Africans to other countries. Exactly the same will occur with Israel before this is all done and dusted.”
a good historical reminder.
reported & noted that already 300,000 have left israel.
it’s perhaps all about the economy; with the Houthis targeting the shipping, and Hamas with its mass rocket attacks now on Tel Aviv….
unfortunately, many 10s of thousands more Palestinian civilians will die beforehand

Posted by: michaelj72 | Dec 2 2023 21:05 utc | 132

Bernard (b) is responding emotionally – and of course, nobody wants to see innocent civilians killed.
When terrorists took hostages in Beslan, many civilians (and children) were killed when Russia had to kill the terrorists. It was sad and inevitable.
Elon Musk correctly said that the Hamas terrorists had to be killed, and that many civilians (including children) would also die in this task.
People conflate Israel’s desire to depopulate Gaza with the need to kill every Hamas terrorist. Bernard should be less of a pussy and more of a realist – Hamas delenda est.

Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Dec 2 2023 21:09 utc | 133

As we watch this, it is worth remembering apartheid South Africa and what occurred with the end of apartheid. The was a mass migration of white South Africans to other countries. Exactly the same will occur with Israel before this is all done and dusted.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 20:06 utc | 113

Many of them went to Israel, they reasoned that they could not afford to pay their African servants/slaves more than R20/month.

Posted by: Menz | Dec 2 2023 21:12 utc | 134

Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Dec 2 2023 21:09 utc | 140
BULL SHIT!! Both the USA and Israel are looking to depopulate the Gaza to control and steal the Gas and Oil reserves off the coast of Gaza. You obviously are not able to see beyond your nose.
https://unctad.org/news/unrealized-potential-palestinian-oil-and-gas-reserves

Posted by: Menz | Dec 2 2023 21:20 utc | 135

Israel is backed by a dying empire. Palestine is backed by Russia and China. This is now center stage in hybrid WWIII.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 20:30 utc | 126

Palestine backed by Russia and China? Where? How? Please show me.
I don’t see either of them doing ANYTHING, as usual.

Posted by: Mushroom | Dec 2 2023 21:22 utc | 136

Posted by: Alayna | Dec 2 2023 21:04 utc | 138
https://www.tiktok.com/@antiglobalistaction/video/7300368718041713962
“every presidential candidate except me suck zionist cock”
– Dr Shiva

Posted by: hedlykarok | Dec 2 2023 21:23 utc | 137

Reap the wind.
“Israel Defense Forces
@IDF
1h
🚨 Millions of Israelis are running for cover as sirens sound across central Israel.”
https://nitter.net/IDF/status/1731043189035819465#m
As I said earlier , the sensible illegal settlers need to start packing. Please.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 2 2023 21:30 utc | 138

Posted by: james | Dec 2 2023 21:29 utc | 145
Good thing this forum is typing…would be really difficult to speak with your head so far up tour ass….

Posted by: hedlykarok | Dec 2 2023 21:35 utc | 139

Posted by: Damien | Dec 2 2023 19:03 utc | 92
In a televised address on 30 Oct PM Netanyahu described the Israeli war as a “holy Mission” and “”you must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible.”

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 2 2023 21:36 utc | 140

@ fake james | Dec 2 2023 21:29 utc | 145
I must say you’re doing a bangup job of discrediting your own cause.

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 2 2023 21:44 utc | 141

“So if Joe Biden really wants to have another presidency he will have to stop Netanyahoo from pursuing a long war in Gaza and from pushing the Palestinian population out of the strip.”
Biden: “I don’t believe you have to be a Jew to be a Zionist, and I am a Zionist.”
In other words he won’t. He’ll risk losing to not change course.
Who’s to say voters will decide anyway.

Posted by: samm | Dec 2 2023 21:46 utc | 142

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 2 2023 17:22 utc | 60
Aleph, please just speak for yourself – you do that well. It does no good to make broad statements about this or that group of people. Even pollsters whose job it is don’t get it right, since so much goes into making a publicly recorded statement in answer to a question on this or that.
I believe people in general are shocked and horrified inwardly and maybe just trying to stay sane in a madness-invoking outer world. They mightn’t evidence it at all, they may aggressively be refusing to acknowledge what is happening — but I just figure they are doing their best to cope. Let them be.
We are all facing terrible crimes and a future that is hard to be optimistic about. Don’t judge. I realize one way to feel better is to blame somebody — I did it myself up above. Let’s not blame our own people. You know how un-democratic this country has become. It wasn’t the people’s fault.

Posted by: juliania | Dec 2 2023 21:52 utc | 143

Mushroom | Dec 2 2023 21:22 utc | 143
The way to grow mushrooms is to keep them in the dark and feed them shit.

https://www.epicgardening.com/mushroom-compost/
The term “mushroom compost” can be applied to the medium, called substrate, that mushrooms are grown in. One of the most popular commercial blends of mushroom substrate is a mix of wheat straw, gypsum, and chicken or horse manure. Other ingredients can be used, but these are some of the most common.

Another term that comes to mind is “there’s none so blind as those who will not see”

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 21:54 utc | 144

I’m sorry but as long as they are backed by the US, there’s nothing the Palestinians can do except submit, flee, or die. The Arab countries are not coming to their aid and even Iran is cowed by American power despite all their talk.
Posted by: bored | Dec 2 2023 15:24 utc | 24

Palestinians are doing what they have done the last 75 years, resistance and heroic struggle toward national liberation. That’s why Palestine and it’s liberation is so central to the global anti-imperialist camp.
Arab (vassals) are experiencing a qualitative new state of affairs. The ruling Comprador class is challenged by nationalist/national-religious tendencies. Without a doubt, West Asia is going to be the hotspot of anti-imperialst struggle more then before.
In Iran and in the wider sense, Axis of Resistance, a common assessment has taken shape: Apartheid Zionist regime is in a process of collapse since October 7. one should push forward and manage this process in a wise manner.

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 2 2023 21:59 utc | 145

Mushroom | Dec 2 2023 21:22 utc | 143
The way to grow mushrooms is to keep them in the dark and feed them shit.
https://www.epicgardening.com/mushroom-compost/
The term “mushroom compost” can be applied to the medium, called substrate, that mushrooms are grown in. One of the most popular commercial blends of mushroom substrate is a mix of wheat straw, gypsum, and chicken or horse manure. Other ingredients can be used, but these are some of the most common.
Another term that comes to mind is “there’s none so blind as those who will not see”
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 21:54 utc | 152

I am asking you again, what are Russia and China doing to help the Palestinians?
Try replying without a personal attack followed by a non-answer this time.

Posted by: Mushroom | Dec 2 2023 22:08 utc | 146

Jewish weirdness.
I’ve been wondering what was going on inside the heads of Diaspora Jews who migrated to “Israel” with the intention of buying stolen Palestinian land from a greedy, rich, unscrupulous Jew?
I mean are they bargain-hunting or do they just feel obliged to help greedy, rich, violent Jews to get richer? Or is it only necessary to be totally detached from reality and morality to qualify as a genuine “Israeli” citizen?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 2 2023 22:13 utc | 147

The only long term solution must contain “money” as the meads of ensuring compliance with peace. (Or lack of it). The dollar has to either go away or lose it’s value to such an extent that the US can no longer be able to support such a massive world-wide military, and that of Israel at the same time.
**
Seen in that light; In Saudi Arabia. before the Gazan conflict, MbS had ambitions, of being the Leading light of the modern Muslim world.. Examples 1) Neom. The Mirror city that would have been a connection from SA to Egypt without going through Israel at all.
2) Don’t forget that SA is also a “Holy land”, with Mecca. They had a problem with Muslim Hajjis (Pilgrims) that arrived and then wanted to stay on until they died. (Imported illnesses, poor Hajis with no means of support, and social troubles as well). Palestinians would have to be accomodated in urban areas, of which there are not so many. Even the Bedouin have difficulty returning to the “desert” once they have left it for more than a few months.
I am not trying to Excuse SA, but I think that the resistance to Israel (Who must now be seen as a threat to ANY and ALL Arabic Nations), will come through Oil and dedollarization, as a “final” solution to an ethnic problem. Destroy the source of the aggression, not the symptom.
The distance betwen SA and Israel is in itself a logistical problem that cannot be easily overcome. It is called “desert” or “semi-arid land”. Simply a logistical water supply overland for troops is a major factor. 50°C in the shade at moments.
This works both ways, although in WWI the SA destroyed the Ottoman Turks who were in Riyadh by simply cutting off the water. (500 miles of desert on foot without a drop. No known survivors reached the Persian Gulf). There are several large US bases in SA to “control” the Red Sea. These are less independent than may be imagined, but it also means that any invading force would also have a large problem if they tried to enter the interior.
*
Hybrid “warfare”
Other Gulf State are reducing their output by 2bil barrels per day to raise the price of Oil in the US. This will also have a financial impact, but over the longer term.
***
Russian troops were visibly photographed in the Golan, observing IDF. A “warning” from Putin, that the extent of the war should not be enlarged to include neighbouring countries. (Syria, and even Lebanon might be included as the Golan is near both.)
Note; That Russia now has about 1.3 million troops and is attacking Ukraine along it’s entire front line. Soon those battle hardened troops will be available to protect other Russian interests. (Ukraine is not a “stalemate, but the culmination of the SMO). Talks are reported to be in progress between Russians and Ukrainians.

Posted by: Stonebird | Dec 2 2023 22:14 utc | 148


I’m asking for your opinion on this: I’ve characterized these settlers as soldiers in mufti. Do you think this unfair?

Posted by: Ben Trovata | Dec 2 2023 22:15 utc | 149

Posted by: Moses22 | Dec 2 2023 17:41 utc | 65
####################
I have a suspicion that the boycotts of Musk may yield a similar outcome to the sanctions against Russia.
It’s a lot of pomp and show but I believe Musk’s creativity, like Russia’s tenacity can exhaust the energy of this obvious propaganda exercise.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Dec 2 2023 18:06 utc | 72
You are wise , Donbass-its kinda the same take as the Nietzschean maxim:
“That which doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 2 2023 22:21 utc | 150

In the Ukraine Defense line thread, there was some information about Amos Hochstein by DunGroanin.
I found an article that he also advised the Biden admin about the “controversial” Nord Stream pipeline
(before the blow up, see the other thread).
And here is the link to Gaza Marine:
https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/palestine-israel/2023/11/19/us-envoy-hochstein-tells-the-national-offshore-gas-belongs-to-the-palestinian-people/
>>”There is an opportunity here to develop the gas fields in offshore Gaza, on behalf of the Palestinians,” he said, in reference to marine gas reserves already discovered in Gaza.
Mr Hochstein said he has worked on the issue with the Palestinian Authority in Ramallah for the past year and a half and said “it is entirely possible”.
He stressed that “as soon as we get to the day after and this horrible war ends, there are companies willing to develop those fields”.<<

Posted by: C | Dec 2 2023 22:22 utc | 151

I am asking you again, what are Russia and China doing to help the Palestinians?
Try replying without a personal attack followed by a non-answer this time.
Posted by: Mushroom | Dec 2 2023 22:08 utc | 154
Unifying RoW as to a Palestinian state. Much of what we see now is just going through the preliminaries, similar to Russia putting proposed mutual security agreements to US and Nato. Foreplay so to speak. What we are seeing at the moment is a strategy of only ‘non state actors’ using kinetic actions against US/Israel. This will step up a few notches. Everything kept below the threshold of nuclear armed zionist entity and its US/UK backers going nuclear.
Wait and watch and remember Donbass and the Houthi’s of north Yemen, not to mention Syria. Syria and Donbass survived due to Russia, Yemen due to China. Palestine will hold out.
A school girl questioned Putin about standing in pouring rain while laying a wreath at I think the monument or grave of the Unknown soldier. He said, “I am not made of sugar. I will not melt”. He then outlined conditions soldiers faced in war.
Palestinians, like many others are not made of sugar. They will survive, Israel will not.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 22:23 utc | 152

Posted by: greg | Dec 2 2023 18:16 utc | 75
Yet, there was, and is, a huge gap in average cognitive ability between Chinese and South Africans, especially if standardized math tests are used to measure cognitive ability. Intelligence tests actually show a somewhat smaller, but still very large, gap.

My impression is that the prime determinant of cognitive ability and intelligence levels generally is the societal matrix into which one is born. Of course this also influence what type of body and mind you inherit genetically, but that might be about 30% and even so is itself a result of the societal milieu. Children need family and social mandalas which are both stable and complex. Learning starts in the womb and cradle as one gradually perceives and figures out how to navigate through the world which, for humans, is principally social, or cultural. Language, relationships, roles, symbols, peers, friends, enemies, stories, feelings, physical aptitude and so forth.
The first time I went to Thailand I took a cart pulled by a man on foot. He only spoke very broken English but I instantly realized that he was very intelligent, like on professor level. I later went to a cardboard shack barrio where women who quit working as bar girls heaved 20 kg bags of cement for a living. An open channel ran along one end of their one-room flimsy shelters through which flowed sewage mixed with drain water. Now not all those women were neglected geniuses, but several I met were very bright indeed. They grew up in a complex, intelligent and multi-layered culture even if they themselves lacked formal education and came from farms whose pater familias had sold them to feed his family for the next year.

Posted by: Scorpion | Dec 2 2023 22:25 utc | 153

I just don’t know what to think about the Biden junta’s domestic DEI initiatives when it’s providing military and financial support to the distinctly white Ashkenazim powers in Occupied Palestine in the latter’s genocidal war against the distinctly brown indigenous Palestinians. Pure, unadulterated hypocrisy is my interpretation. In other words, fraud, the United States’ only gift to the world.

Posted by: Matthew | Dec 2 2023 22:27 utc | 154

@ Mushroom
Just like the West thought Russia was weak because it didn’t go ‘shock’n awe’ at Ukraine, you are failing to see the subtle but definite shifts in the Middle East. Russia, China, and Iran will not allow the Hegemon to walk away unscathed from this one. Nor will they ever allow Israel to defeat the Palestinians.
Think of this as another war of attrition against the Empire of Lies. Israel may be slaughtering Gazans on the ground, but it is lowering its own neck in the guillotine. An interesting question is if America will at some distant point do a Kabul on Israel, or will it remained joined at the hip even as the blade falls?
Stay tuned!

Posted by: Moses22 | Dec 2 2023 22:31 utc | 155

Guess how surprised I won’t be when Russia destroys “Israel’s” ability to arm, maintain and deploy its air force?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Dec 2 2023 22:32 utc | 156

The war in Ukraine has exposed some serious misperceptions about the relative economic size and military power of major nations. Before the war, it was fashionable to say—usually sardonically—that Russia possessed an economy similar in size to that of Italy or smaller than that of Texas. “The Russian economy will be cut in half,” President Biden tweeted on March 26, 2022, “It was ranked the 11th biggest economy in the world before this invasion—and soon, it will not even rank among the top 20.”
The statistics that the president used for this comparison were nominal GDP numbers measured in U.S. dollars. It is unclear why the president’s economic advisers did not direct him to the purchasing-power-parity-adjusted (PPP) GDP metrics, which are the standard tool economists use to compare the relative size of national economies. That statistic would have showed that Russia’s economy is the sixth largest in the world—almost as large as Germany’s and well over twice as large as the economy of Texas. Perhaps PPP-adjusted metrics have become embarrassing in D.C. of late as they show that the Chinese economy is roughly 20 percent larger than the American economy.
Link to Assessing the Economic Value of Military Materiel
https://twitter.com/philippilk/status/1731064747422810193

Posted by: Sentience | Dec 2 2023 22:39 utc | 157

At first I was against the ethnic cleansing, but now I think that’s the best thing the Israeli naZionists can do. Once Israel only has illegal occupiers on their illegal settlements in stolen and occupied land, and once all the Palestinians/Semitic people are safe outside of that hell, then it will be possible to carpet bomb Tel Aviv with tactical nuclear weapons, this bringing all of this to an end. So, please, Israeli naZionists, execute your “final solution” and then prepare for the JUSTIFIED response and to finally know what real terrorism is.

Posted by: Carlos Marques | Dec 2 2023 22:44 utc | 158

Mr b, you must be wrong, surely?
Everybody on this column swears that the Israeli are finished, politically, financially, and militarily, and now they have all intentions of going on another year?
Didn’t they have, I don’t know, 13000 Merkavas destroys by the bastards? Isolated worldwide? Totally in the crapper?
Can’t imagine I was right all the time!!
But yeah: I told you so!

Posted by: Augusto Pu | Dec 2 2023 22:50 utc | 159

I have been involved in teaching a hard science subject for over 40 years and I can state categorically that people of Chinese, Japanese or Korean descent are, on average, better at mathematics than white Europeans, and that this advantage is due to genetic factors.
MRI scans of living human brains have shown that Oriental brains are on average one cubic inch larger than White European brains.
Orientals score higher than whites on IQ tests. These tests were devised by white people so if there were any bias in the tests that would surely favour whites, not Orientals.
Orientals do all those things we associate with having a high IQ. They have low crime rates, high educational attainment, low rates of poverty in the West, etcetera.
The idea that its all due to parenting and culture is bullXXXX. It is the norm, not the exception where a boy or girl whose parents run a Takeaway and can scarcely speak English far outperform, in maths, the child of highly educated goody goody white liberal parents.
The thing about the Chinese, with whom I am by far the most familiar, is that every social class and division appears to have intelligence. With respect to the Hindu Indians, there is an elite. (And that elite neveretheless is very large and also outperforms most whites.) But on the average Indians are academically poor. But with the Chinese it is as I say with the Takeaway people.

Posted by: martin_2 | Dec 2 2023 22:50 utc | 160

Syria and Donbass survived due to Russia, Yemen due to China. Palestine will hold out.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 22:23 utc | 160

hmmm …
I agree with you on “Palestine will hold out.”

Posted by: Framarz | Dec 2 2023 22:55 utc | 161

fake james | Dec 2 2023 22:55 utc | 171
It is a strange coincidence that when a certain commenter stops commenting here under his real name, you appear. On the odd occasions he comments here (a long break now) you reappear.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 23:08 utc | 162

As we resist all forms of colonization, let us wish the indigenous Irish well in their growing struggle against the relentless forces of global capital arrayed against them.

Posted by: benzanotto | Dec 2 2023 23:12 utc | 163

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 22:23 utc | 160
Palestine needs help NOW, not some foreplay which consists into watching the IDF troops in the Golan and other wishful thinking…
Not so long ago, on the basis of unproven allegations of civilian casualties in Lybia, Russia and China allowed the US and its allies to establish a no-fly zone over that country in order to save/protect civilians.
Today, Israel massacres civilians by the hundreds daily in Gaza with the consent of the US and its allies and neither Russia or China are banging the diplomatic or other drums to try to make this stop.
As for Syria, Russia is only doing what Israel wants there, maintain a weak Assad in power so that the state of war between Israel and Syria remains. This allows Israel to keep occupying all of the Golan and bomb whatever they want, whenever they want in this country without breaking international laws. Just a few days ago they bombed the shit out of Damascus airport and the Russians let them do it as usual.
And in case you’re not aware, China has been brainwashing its citizens the last decades with TV series showing how great Israel and its people are.
I see the things as they are, no matter how bleak, you’re just drinking the kool-aid.

Posted by: Mushroom | Dec 2 2023 23:14 utc | 164

Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 23:08 utc | 172
.. On the odd occasions he comments here (a long break now) you disappear.
@all, unless you are just another username used by the clown, you are outing yourselves as wet behind the ears kiddies in replying to the fake james as though he is the real james.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 23:14 utc | 165

And in case you’re not aware, China has been brainwashing its citizens the last decades with TV series showing how great Israel and its people are.
I see the things as they are, no matter how bleak, you’re just drinking the kool-aid.
Posted by: Mushroom | Dec 2 2023 23:14 utc | 174
Just another troll I see. Mushroom is the correct username.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 23:18 utc | 166

Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 20:47 utc | 132–
Thanks for your reply and other postings. Do the Mafia running the Outlaw US Empire and their Globalist allies adhere to any religion, and my answer to that is they worship the same ideology as the Marquis de Sade–Libertinism and the wealth and power such an amoral ism is capable of providing since the practitioners have zero scruples. Such an ism makes one quite likely to also be addicted to Megalomania and Pleonexia. All that’s somewhat similar to the philosophy supposedly practiced by The Silence of the Lambs Dr. Hannibal Lector. IMO, such deviances aren’t innate but learned; bullies aren’t born that way but are taught most often by their parents. Freud was on to something but fixated too much on child-mother relations. The main point is behavior announces the values of that individual; so, Netanyahu is clearly a Serial Killer as are those in his government; if they were genuine Jews serious about their religion they would obey the #1 Commandment–Thou Shall Not Kill–but that’s clearly not important at all to them or to Biden or most within the Outlaw US Empire’s governing structure.
I wondered if Putin knew how close his words are to those of Palestinians and many others globally:
“Dear friends, our battle for sovereignty and justice is, without any exaggeration, of a national liberation nature, because we are defending the security and wellbeing of our people, the supreme, historical right to be Russia-a strong, independent power, a country-civilization. It is our country, the Russian world, as has happened more than once in history, that has blocked the path of those who claim world domination, their exclusivity.”
He followed that paragraph with this that’s exclusively Russia:
“We are now fighting for the freedom not only of Russia, but of the whole world. We openly say that the dictatorship of one hegemon-we can see it, everyone can see it now-is getting old. She went, as they say, peddling and just dangerous to others. This is already clear to the entire world majority. But, I repeat, it is our country that is now at the forefront of creating a more just world order. And I want to emphasize: without a sovereign, strong Russia, no lasting, stable world order is possible.”
And Putin’s last sentence is why the Outlaw US Empire doesn’t want Russia or China in any form and tells us why it supports the Gaza Genocide in its actions that belie its words and thus show the world its true values.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2023 23:18 utc | 167

circumspect | Dec 2 2023 20:28 utc | 122
There is not a country in the Arabian peninsula in the modern shaping of which the British did not play the major role.
Saudi Arabia was less of a British foundation- it having been formed in defiance of Britain’s support of the Hashemites in the Hejaz- than any of the Gulf states, Iraq or Jordan. The only state close to having kept out of the British political orbit was northern Yemen-the south was directly ruled by Britain. Even Syria and Lebanon were ruled by the British until the Sykes-Picot accord came into play after 1920 when the French ejected the Hashemite King Faisal who was then installed in Iraq. .
martin_2 | Dec 2 2023 22:50 utc | 169
I don’t know what ‘hard science’ you taught for 40 years but deepest condolences to all the students that you must have been misinforming with your racist gibberish.
Would the ‘Hindu elite’ that you identify be members of a higher caste by any chance?

Posted by: bevin | Dec 2 2023 23:20 utc | 168

Mushroom | Dec 2 2023 21:22 utc | 143–
I’ve a bunch of primary sources that say otherwise, China recently being in the forefront. Both have shown political and humanitarian support for Palestinians both of which are crucial. Unlike the Ukraine conflict, this is 100% Big Picture, which is something Peter and I along with many other barflies point out. By Big Picture I mean Humanity’s Future.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2023 23:29 utc | 169

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 23:18 utc | 176
And name calling again… boring…

Posted by: Mushroom | Dec 2 2023 23:29 utc | 170

And in case you’re not aware, China has been brainwashing its citizens the last decades with TV series showing how great Israel and its people are.
I see the things as they are, no matter how bleak, you’re just drinking the kool-aid.
Posted by: Mushroom | Dec 2 2023 23:14 utc | 174
Please provide a list of said t.v series?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 2 2023 23:31 utc | 171

I have been involved in teaching a hard science subject for over 40 years and I can state categorically that people of Chinese, Japanese or Korean descent are, on average, better at mathematics than white Europeans, and that this advantage is due to genetic factors.
Posted by: martin_2 | Dec 2 2023 22:50 utc | 169
I find this statement anti-semitic.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 2 2023 23:33 utc | 172

bevin | Dec 2 2023 23:20 utc | 178
I have read Asians in general have higher IQ. But what exactly is IQ? Critical thinking to me appears the critical factor. In the west it is termed ‘thinking outside the box’.
What is the box? As far as I can tell it is when somebodies thinking is locked within the box of what it has been taught rather than to use that as a foundation to stand on and reach further. Everything about the western system, from education to employment to insurance and the media tries to lock people within a box of group think.
A society and education system that promotes critical thinking rather than within the box group think will always be far smarter.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 23:38 utc | 173

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 2 2023 23:29 utc | 179
I’ll believe when I see it. So far I haven’t seen anything.
Currently, I believe that the moderating influence of the US is several orders of magnitude greater than that of Russia and China combined even though the US is also the enabler of it.

Posted by: Mushroom | Dec 2 2023 23:38 utc | 174

“As we watch this, it is worth remembering apartheid South Africa and what occurred with the end of apartheid. The was a mass migration of white South Africans to other countries. Exactly the same will occur with Israel before this is all done and dusted.”
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 20:06 utc | 113
Very prescient, I agree.

Posted by: drew currah | Dec 2 2023 23:44 utc | 175

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 2 2023 23:31 utc | 181
I have no links at hand I am afraid. I probably have some in one or another external hard drive in which I dump all the shit I download however. Unlikely to dig them out though.

Posted by: Mushroom | Dec 2 2023 23:46 utc | 176

How’bout this for for the back of green back?
Wars Я US

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Dec 2 2023 23:48 utc | 177

All the usual sicko Zionist trolls are out here in force again.
You have to feel sorry for them – there’s only so much they can do to polish their Israeli turd.

Posted by: anon | Dec 2 2023 23:49 utc | 178

Bernard (b) is responding emotionally – and of course, nobody wants to see innocent civilians killed.
When terrorists took hostages in Beslan, many civilians (and children) were killed when Russia had to kill the terrorists. It was sad and inevitable.
Posted by: Contrarian_Ed | Dec 2 2023 21:09 utc | 140
Bernhard is not responding emotionally.
Bernhard is responding within the rational framework provided by traditional Western Moral Logic.
Bernhard, unlike the entire Western governing establishment with few exceptions, is responding with logical consistency within that Moral Framework.
Your use of the Beslan example is false equivalence.
The proper equation is that the beslan terrorists are equivalent to ‘Israel’ while the defending side is Palestine represented by Hamas.
In Hamas’ 7 October SMO, no civilians were killed by Hamas since nobody actively taking part in a settler occupation can rationally be called a non-combatant (there’s no such thing as an ‘Israeli civilian’):
1. Non military adults are actively purging Palestinians from their land. Therefore they are an active component of military occupation.
2. Children are human shields brought into the active battlefield by murderous parents. The Jewish occupiers are liable for their deaths in any event since they have deliberately placed children in harms way.
3. Foreign workers are mercenaries taking part in assisting an occupation army. They deserve only the rights accorded to mercenaries in any conflict.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 2 2023 23:54 utc | 179

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 19:46 utc | 105:

It is terrible watching what is happening to Palestinians at the moment but one thing is for sure is that they will survive as a people and become a recognized state.

Yes indeed! It’s hard to see the carnage in Gaza the last month or so, but what you said above is what China is saying at the UN. Wang Yi stated at UN that the military actions in Gaza must stop, and the UN must recognize Palestine as a separate nation independent of Israel. The Palestine Nation is defined as the political demarcations defined in 1948 and 1967. Israel’s present military action is therefore an invasion of a member of UN. The way Wang Yi stated it, it sounds to me China is going to act accordingly from now on to achieve this endgame. Instead of this being voiced at UN by China’s UN Representative Zhang Juen, China has chosen Wang Yi to make these statements at the UN General Assembly to give it the high profile weight. That is a choice carefully made, as precursor to subsequent actions to be taken by China. Doing so, China is actually declaring loggerhead confrontation against the US on this ME issue.
Having visited MOA for about 10 years, I’ve never seen b being so angry and desperate on any issues than what is happening to the Palestinian since Oct.7, 2023. I believe b has comrades in China’s present leadership circle on this issue.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Dec 2 2023 23:55 utc | 180

Wars Я US
Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Dec 2 2023 23:48 utc | 187
Whores R US.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 2 2023 23:57 utc | 181

@ Jonathan W | 4
No. Israel lies all the time. The whole country is based on a skein of deceit and it pervades everything they do or say.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Dec 3 2023 0:03 utc | 182

Chen Wenhong’s column detailing Wang Yi’s statements made in New York:
https://orientaldaily.on.cc/content/%E8%A6%81%E8%81%9E%E6%B8%AF%E8%81%9E/odn-20231203-1203_00184_001/%E5%9D%A6%E8%A8%80%E9%9B%86%EF%BC%9A%E9%82%84%E8%A6%81%E9%9D%A0%E6%88%B0%E7%88%AD
Sorry I haven’t learn to use the online translator yet but many of you do, and I believe you’ll enjoy reading this article.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Dec 3 2023 0:03 utc | 183

I have no links at hand I am afraid. I probably have some in one or another external hard drive in which I dump all the shit I download however. Unlikely to dig them out though.
Posted by: Mushroom | Dec 2 2023 23:46 utc | 186
If China was brainwashing it’s population with pro Israel messaging as prolifically as you claim it would be a second’s worth of research to pull out the evidence.
If you have to dig so deep then this brainwashing program you speak of must be truly obscure and can’t have been what you claim it is.
Which means it can’t have been a brainwashing programme at all.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2023 0:03 utc | 184

Oriental Voice | Dec 2 2023 23:55 utc | 190
Culture can be looked at in two different aspects. One is in fine arts and so forth. The other is in the culture of the people. For me, a nations culture is the some total of a nations history. China has its hundred years of shame when imperialistic nation took bites of it at will, not to mention the anglo drug running trade that created a huge amount of destruction in China.
China’s leadership has a great deal of empathy for those in similar predicament and is now in a position to act on that empathy.
Thanks for your reply. I agree with all of it.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2023 0:04 utc | 185

Posted by: james | Dec 2 2023 18:41 utc | 83
“i do not mean to be rude but”
Yes you do.
“… perhaps if palestinians were to abandon terrorism under hamas and embrace fraternal relations with israel the situation would improve”
Perhaps if Israel would give back the land & property that they stole to its rightful owners, the Palestinians would forgive them for 75 years of caging them in concentration camps & slow genocide.

Posted by: Mary | Dec 3 2023 0:05 utc | 186

@ Mushroom –
It’s pointless to educate a troll. Either that or your perceptions are too distorted by brainwashing by the Empire of Lies. In the end, you can believe whatever BS you want.and go live under a mushroom.
If you really care about Palestinian as you seem to imply, and not a hasbara troll, let’s hear you on:
1. Condemning the Zionist genocide of Palestinians.
2. Calling out Zionism as a European colonial settlement enterprise using Biblical myths as a cover and the Holocaust as an excuse and cover for its own genocide.
3. Acknowledging Israel as an apartheid state
4. Acknowledging Israel is deliberately targeting and destroying civilian infrastructure in Gaza, especially aiming at structures that have women and children as part of their ethnic cleansing.
5. Recognise the Palestinians have a right to armed struggle, and Hamas is their elected political and military representatives in their legitimate resistance to occupation.

Posted by: Moses22 | Dec 3 2023 0:06 utc | 187

Currently, I believe that the moderating influence of the US is several orders of magnitude
Posted by: Mushroom | Dec 2 2023 23:38 utc | 184
You mean the moderating influence of the bunker buster bombs the USA is shipping to the IDF to drop on children in Gaza?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2023 0:07 utc | 188

Sorry I haven’t learn to use the online translator yet but many of you do, and I believe you’ll enjoy reading this article.
Posted by: Oriental Voice | Dec 3 2023 0:03 utc | 193
Install the Baidu browser and use that for anything Chinese. Some years since I have used it but I found it had the best Chinese to English auto translater. Yandex for anything Russian and Baidu for anything Chinese.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2023 0:09 utc | 189

@ Bored | 24
The Gaza civilians are not beong offered a way to submit. And they have no way to flee.
Israel is murdering them in a straight up genocide.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Dec 3 2023 0:12 utc | 190

Everybody on this column swears that the Israeli are finished, politically, financially, and militarily, and now they have all intentions of going on another year?
Posted by: Augusto Pu | Dec 2 2023 22:50 utc | 168
Since when are “intentions” a guarantee?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2023 0:13 utc | 191

I have read Asians in general have higher IQ. But what exactly is IQ?
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 2 2023 23:38 utc | 183
At one point IQ was recognized in the West as the very acme of intelligence.
As soon as it was discovered that Asians were excelling at IQ tests the debate among westies about it’s validity gathered apace.
They’ll have to find a new form of phrenology to keep themselves on top of the heap since the Asians have better bumps in all the right places …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2023 0:19 utc | 192

Israel has already started the preparation for targeted killings abroad.
Posted by: librul | Dec 2 2023 18:11 utc | 74
Started? They’ve been doing this for at least two decades.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 3 2023 0:32 utc | 193

Biden and Trump, the Neocons generally, are irrelevant. Israel servants, bleeting sheep.
What matters is Xi and Putin. They have a medium-term solution, the original two-state solution, but no short-term solution to the tragedy. The Gulf states aren’t willing to commit to all-out economic war, so there is no way to stop Israel unless the people of ‘the captive (by Israel) West’ rise up against their governments.

Posted by: fairleft | Dec 3 2023 0:48 utc | 194

What matters is Xi and Putin. They have a medium-term solution, the original two-state solution, but no short-term solution to the tragedy.
Posted by: fairleft | Dec 3 2023 0:48 utc | 205
The difference between a permanent solution to the ongoing 70 year tragedy and a temporary bandaid solution.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2023 0:53 utc | 195

The Cradle has a posting up about the Gaza situation and there is this tidbit

Under US pressure to “reduce” civilian casualties once their ethnic cleansing campaign restarted, the Israeli army on Friday published a map dividing the Gaza Strip – an area 41 kilometers long and between 6 to 12 km wide – into 2,300 small blocks, claiming they will use this to give instructions and directions on evacuation and safe areas.
This ignores, however, that the vast majority of Palestinians in Gaza do not have electricity or internet to access the map.

I suspect this is part of their Gospel AI system and, as such, represents part of the obfuscation of planned genocide.
The longer our species takes to stop this genocide, the more it says about how much trauma at various levels will be experienced by everyone. Can humanity stand up to the self licking trauma cone of Might-Makes-Right bullying? So far, we are seeing that happen, but it is hard to watch…..how many more have to die before the cult of humans with the cancer of elitism succumbs to pressure to reform by the China/Russia axis?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 3 2023 1:00 utc | 196

Aleph, please just speak for yourself – you do that well. It does no good to make broad statements about this or that group of people. Even pollsters whose job it is don’t get it right…
@ juliania | Dec 2 2023 21:52 utc | 151

Really? I don’t understand your message to me, juliania, not at all. You seem to be opposed to social criticism, or maybe only when it’s coming from me. Can you please locate a form of social criticism which refrains from generalizations?
Edward Said has a particularly incisive form of social criticism: combining it with literary criticism, even dissolving the difference, as mythological ethos mixes with historical imperatives. Using such a technique, one easily perceives the untold depth of US American genocidal reflexes. Such an analytical exercise as Said’s is useful, because only after truly sounding the depth of USA’s genocidal heritage can we understand how radical any realistic remedy must be.
Here in the Bay Area, we needn’t delve any deeper than the names of nearby towns to find monuments to bloodthirsty fiends, such as Fremont, just east of me, or Stanford, down the peninsula. At the very apex of cultural genocide, we have the military hardware of modern-day genocide named after the peoples John C. Frémont and Amasa Leland Stanford so diligently worked to exterminate.
How many US Americans even know that L. Frank Baum, beloved author of Wizard of Oz, wrote stuff like this (shortly after the massacre at Wounded Knee)?

The proud spirit of the original owners of these vast prairies inherited through centuries of fierce and bloody wars for their possession, lingered last in the bosom of Sitting Bull. With his fall the nobility of the Redskin is extinguished, and what few are left are a pack of whining curs who lick the hand that smites them. The Whites, by law of conquest, by justice of civilization, are masters of the American continent, and the best safety of the frontier settlements will be secured by the total annihilation of the few remaining Indians. Why not annihilation? Their glory has fled, their spirit broken, their manhood effaced; better that they die than live the miserable wretches that they are.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2010/10/27/130862391/l-frank-baum-advocated-extermination-of-native-americans
Disgusting enough stuff, but it’s our true US American heritage, which could bear some open airing, don’t you think?

Posted by: Aleph_Null | Dec 3 2023 1:11 utc | 197

Good piece. The US, UK and most EU countries are fully onboard with Israel’s genocidal war on Gaza. If Trump wins in 2024, he will support Israel as well. US hostility towards Palestinians and Iran was on vivid display from Presidential Contender Nikki Haley commenting on the Oct 7 attacks, ‘Finish them’ [Hamas] and called for a war on Iran. (See- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvTVbo0KJMc).
The impotence of resident countries was clearly on display at the Nov 10 joint Arab League and Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) summit in Riyadh. The result of this meeting was that Arab nations could not agree on a number of contentious measures that some of their members had recommended. These included decisions to prohibit the use of regional US military bases to supply arms to Israel, suspend all Arab relations with Israel, and impose an oil embargo against the occupying entity. Thus, rhetoric notwithstanding, KSA, Egypt, Jordan and Türkiye have done virtually nothing concrete to oppose Israel’s slaughter of Palestinians. The only Arab/Muslim forces opposing Israel are Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and Houthi/Ansarallah in Yemen. (See- https://new.thecradle.co/articles/what-arab-states-can-do-to-punish-israel)

Posted by: Paul | Dec 3 2023 1:13 utc | 198

I think Satanyahoo is very hard trying to get a bigger war running and he may get there sooner then we think
Just imagine for a few thousand Zionist devils the whole planet will burn with billions eventually being killed
Either humanity wakes up timely and takes care of the devils in a brutal manner or that’s it and the lights go out

Posted by: 🌶️Mike | Dec 3 2023 1:14 utc | 199

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 3 2023 0:53 utc | 206
The only band-aid ‘solution’ is for Israel to stop doing what it’s doing. Which will happen eventually, when the money runs out. Which may take quite awhile.
My guess is that, in 5-10 years, the multipolar world will impose a ‘no settlers’ two-state solution (enforced by Russian and Chinese troops) on Israel/Palestine after a short but harsh economic embargo wises Israel up. Similar to how apartheid South Africa was killed. Why? Because multipolar world leaders’ plan for peace and prosperity in the Middle East is blocked by imperial/colonialist Israel.
Above is best Palestinians can hope for based on (past experience of) what and how much multipolar world leaders and Arab powers are willing to sacrifice. Utopian dreams of a one-state solution aren’t helpful, but as long as the dreamers don’t fight the realistic solution, prosperity and peace can happen fairly soon.

Posted by: fairleft | Dec 3 2023 1:21 utc | 200