Biden Administration Fearmongers Over Article 5 Event

December 8, 2023

Stoltenberg is a mediocre salesman:

NATO chief says Ukraine will join the military alliance, subject to reforms, after the war – Yahoo / Euronews – Nov 28, 2023

Ukraine will become a member of NATO subject to reforms after the war, the military alliance’s secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, said on Monday.

He was speaking ahead of a meeting of foreign ministers in Brussels, at which the alliance is expected to reaffirm its support for Ukraine’s defence against Russia’s full-scale invasion.

Whatever Stoltenberg might say, it is not going to happen. There is no purpose for Ukraine to be integrated to NATO except for U.S. self-aggrandization. Some assume that NATO membership would protect Ukraine from further attacks by Russia. It would not.

The U.S. itself does not believes that NATO membership protects any country from being attacked by Russia:

‘If you think the price is high now’ – Kirby outlines price U.S. will pay if Ukraine loses war – Yahoo – Dec 7, 2023

“America will not only spend money, but also shed its own blood,” if the U.S. doesn't assist Ukraine in its war against Russia and Russia prevails, said National Security spokesperson John Kirby during a briefing.
…
“If you think the cost of supporting Ukraine is high now just imagine how much higher it's going to be not just in National Treasure but in American blood if he [Putin] starts going after one of our NATO allies… we [will] take our Article 5 commitments very seriously,” said Kirby.
…
“American boots would very much have to be involved if Mr. Putin is allowed to have this strategic victory in Ukraine and then perhaps goes after one of our NATO allies,” Kirby added.

Kirby obviously believes that NATO membership does not protect one from a Russian attack. He fearmongers about U.S. participation in a war under an allegedly binding Article 5 event.

But it is a myth that Article 5 of the Washington Treaty (which founded NATO) will guarantee that others would come to a members defense with their own armies.

Article 5 does not say anything like that. Here is its essence:

The Parties agree … that .. each of them … will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith … such action as it deems necessary …

"Such action as it deems necessary …" may include a lot of potential measures (including none) which differ from sending one's army.

Would the U.S. really go to war with another nuclear superpower over some tussle between Estonia (1.4 million inhabitants of which a third are ethnic Russian) and the Russian Federation?

I for one find this very unlikely.

Posted by b on December 8, 2023 at 16:25 UTC | Permalink

Comments

These seasonal inflection points are pre-determined every year.
Based on the distributed lag effect of money flows, by the FRB-NY’s “trading desk” operations, executing the FOMC’s monetary policy directives.
In the present case just reserve “smoothing” and “draining” operations, the oscillating inflows and outflows, the making and or receiving of interbank and correspondent bank payments by and large using their “free” excess reserve balances.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 9 2023 14:17 utc | 201

This is in response to post #70, about Russia and the company logos…
The Russians renamed Starbucks, and now it is called “Stars”.
But why did they not do the OBVIOUS thing, and call it “Czarbucks”?

Posted by: Bemused Observer | Dec 9 2023 14:31 utc | 202

This “news” will only make the war last for longer.

Posted by: Mr. Market | Dec 9 2023 14:38 utc | 203

unimperator | Dec 8 2023 23:58 utc | 128
*** Alex Soros signs deals with Ukraine (ministry of ecology and natural resources) to allocate 400km2 of fertile land for toxic waste disposal from companies such as DuPont and Dow Chemical.
https://magyarnemzet.hu/english/2023/12/new-soros-plan-to-bury-chemical-waste-in-ukrainian-farmland***
Absolute treason by the Kiev regime (almost all of which is loyal to a different country in any case). Why would any soldiers — including Azovites — knowing of that deal continue to take part in the war?

Posted by: Cynic | Dec 9 2023 14:43 utc | 204

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 9 2023 1:31 utc | 140
The anti-war movement was strong even in the military during Vietnam. There were anti-war coffee shops in many towns adjacent to military bases. Truly a populist movement. I hope the new generations realize that changing the present corporatist power structure will not be accomplished through social media, but requires the interactions of people in the same room.

Posted by: Mike R | Dec 9 2023 15:02 utc | 205

To understand the political theatre in the USA requires one to almost eschew information from the entire MSM, which STILL is a fear in itself.
I consider myself a Norwegian socialist of the classical sense.
Unfortunately, OUR political parties, from the “extreme left” (Rødt) to the “extreme right” FrP are also playing the republican-democrat game where the big picture remains the same while media obsess over the size of KimK’s butt or a black shaman marrying the crazy Norwegian princess.
The DeepState is really an apparatus with sisterhoods in every “Western” nation where all political leaders are racing over the zeal to virtue-signal rusdophobia and “security” the most.
Until more independent political movements grow, there will only be further cementing of “democracy” with no choices where the working class will be more marginalized.

Posted by: Et Norden | Dec 9 2023 15:30 utc | 206

@ Mike R | Dec 9 2023 15:02 utc | 205
What really ended the Vietnam War and abolished the draft wasn’t in the coffee shops, it was the rebellion of the drafted troops in the line units: mission refusal, fragging, etc.

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 9 2023 15:45 utc | 207

I see the diehards are yippee yayying on all the boards to disrupt the topics.
They have all been revealed by their ‘glow’ from efforts change narrative’s and set up the echo chambers. lol.
It was only a matter of time. I see in at Guardian, Off-Guardian and even at various ‘independent’ blog sites I regularly read. It’s easy to shift the chaff trolls from the genuine commenters after a few years of such experience.
Anyway – for the deluded who rushed through join up and went conquistadoring to distant lands , to Afghanistan, to replant the poppy fields – and then to Iraq , to steal the Oil and set a base for the Zionazis expansion across the region – all for masters who sold them some sob story of AQ and WMD. Also for they who ponder Natzio as a setup. The colonial occupying miltary across the whole planet – a quick answer from the never ceasing education by @GeromanAT
‘ — GEROMAN — time will tell – 👀 —
@GeromanAT
2h
you never defeated the Taliban dude – you did not even manage to occupy more than 10% of Afghanistan.
And beating the Iraqi forces after 10 years of starvation by sanctions even Tükyie could have managed alone.
Fact is US never fought a peer opponent since WW2.
It is an overpriced sunshine army ‘
Now given all the truths revealed and all the propaganda and lies, if there are still any ‘veterans’ still believing they were doing good instead of actually doing the maximum evil – you guys better make peace with your own minds soon because the madness will only ever increase to full postal … you know it.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 9 2023 16:15 utc | 208

Russia has NO intention of proceeding any further than what has already been outlined. Putin admitted those parts of the Ukraine that wished to rejoin the RF. Why would Russia want to take on and occupy the basketcase that Galicia Ukraine, which is just chock-a-block full of hate for the Russians is. For the EU to hysterically scream “The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!” is simply that and nothing more: hysteria. Do not lose sight of the fact that war is not only good for america, america would have serious economics woes – lol,even more than they have now – if it didn’t have a war to fight. And then there are the ‘intangibles’: how seriously would america’s credibility be damaged by losing the Ukraine? (in most non-US populations they already have next to no credibility, outside of idiot politicians) The real reason the west wants the war to continue is to provide money for the US MIC, and to not look foolish for starting and then losing this stupid, never-should’ve-been-fought war. To the EU: Calm down. The Russians AREN’T coming for your lands and daughters. Get a grip.

Posted by: rgl | Dec 9 2023 16:38 utc | 209

It could get very interesting next year. In June 2024
Eventually, those who benefit from the interest rate increases, who typically have a lower marginal propensity to consume (how much they spend out of every extra $ received), run out of things to buy and pocket the bonuses.
And eventually, the spending cuts from the debtors, particularly lower income mortgage holders, begins to dominate.
There are basically 6 major liquidity flow swings in a fiscal year
https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/910351-robert-p-balan/5465685-burden-of-bullish-bearish-meme-unleash-total-power-of-compounding-and-large-numbers-laws
They are called inflection points. The 4th inflection point in mid June 2024 in my opinion is the one to keep an eye on. No recession but markets could plummet. Biden chances to go even further down the drain.
Could happen before that if the oil guys turn oil into $200 a barrel.
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 9 2023 14:13 utc | 203
I disagree.
We have had a recession, in my opinion, in the Western world since 2008. I, like Mark Twain, don’t believe in government stats.
Let me give you an example: in US GDP calculations one expects that they are the sum of the country’s economic activity? One would be wrong. If one owns a house but has no mortgage the govt. bureaucrats impute what it would cost to rent the house or condo for a year and add that to the GDP number. That adds a few trillion to the GDP #
In Canada we have they say .62% economic growth over the last year ; however last year Canada received 500,000 immigrants out of 40 million people so the population grew at around 1.2% so in my admittedly amateur math the economy contracted .58%, not grew.
In the 80’s the USSR economic stats looked great right until they went bankrupt; so is the West’s Potemkin economic village at this juncture..
Such that with all due respect, Echo, I will follow the Kondratieff cycle with an 80 year trough in 2024 (the year the world falls apart according to his math, rather wave) rather than your predictions.
1. Canada Real GDP is at a current level of 2.205T, up from 2.203T last month and up from 2.192T one year ago. This is a change of 0.09% from last month and 0.62% from one year ago. Canada Real GDP is the total value of goods produced and services provided in Canada, as adjusted for inflation.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 9 2023 16:41 utc | 210

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 9 2023 13:17 utc | 193
That website has no link for this claim. Just an attribution to a reporter who’s written for propaganda websites like Vzglyad. He even only talks about a hypothetical “almost everyone” backing up his assertions.

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Dec 9 2023 16:58 utc | 211

You are too thin skinned.
Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 23:56 utc | 126
Two fallacies in one sentence. COngratulations!

Posted by: Naive | Dec 9 2023 17:28 utc | 212

A rare confirmed kill of HIMARS launcher vehicle but look at how reckless the operators had to be in order to get caught. When was the last report of one of these things getting caught out when operated properly?
https://t.me/geromanat/15158

The Russians publish footage from the Kherson direction. The American HIMARS system was located almost on the very shore of the Dnieper. As a result of a precise artillery strike, the Ukrainian multiple launch rocket system was destroyed. ….

Posted by: anon2020 | Dec 9 2023 18:00 utc | 213

Posted by: canuck | Dec 9 2023 11:24 utc | 183
Moonie you asked the right questions. Naive is incorrect. For example, The Aztecs had many Gods (1) they were not monotheistic. As a matter of fact they were worried about the return of Quetzalxcoatl (they thought Cortez was the God) they sacrificed 80,000 humans in one day in 1521.
LOL.
The massacre was done by the Spaniards in 1520. And 1521 the Spaniards and their allies attacked Tenochtitlan. The Aztecs in both cases were the victims.
Educate yourself:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_du_Templo_Mayor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Tenochtitlan
When Alexander the Great who strongly believed in the panoply of Greek Gods sacked Thebes in 335 killing 6,000 and enslaving 30,000. Alexander did regret this act and every time a displaced Theban petitioned him while he sat in court he always gave to the Theban whatever they asked.
LOL bis.
Thebes rebelled itself and refused to surrender after being offered the choice. The 6000 Thebans were killed during the battle. How many Macedonians were killed is not known. The fate of the city was decided not by Alexander, but by surrounding cities which did not like Thebes. Nothing to do with extermination.
Educate yourself:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_de_Th%C3%A8bes
There are many, may examples, Naive is off base.
Compliment sent back.
1.Prominent in the Aztec pantheon were Huitzilopochtli, god of war; Tonatiuh, god of the sun; Tlaloc, god of rain; and Quetzalcóatl, the Feathered Serpent, who was part deity and part culture hero. Human sacrifice, particularly by offering a victim’s heart to Tonatiuh, was commonly practiced, as was bloodletting.
It looks like you don’t know what was the Flower War. Where nobody was killend during the fights, but taken prisoners, to be well fed and later sacrificed. No such think as exterminations like the Europeans were and are practicing time and again. You should read Las Casas to understand what the Spaniards did in Mexico.
Educate yourself (again):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower_war
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Short_Account_of_the_Destruction_of_the_Indies

Posted by: Naive | Dec 9 2023 18:05 utc | 214

It’s been a long while since any here, but one, have cited
Wikipedia as a source of accurate info. Something smells.

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Dec 9 2023 19:01 utc | 215

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Dec 9 2023 19:01 utc | 215
I could have posted this link, but I fear most people here would be unable to read it…
https://www.seuil.com/ouvrage/la-conquete-de-l-amerique-la-question-de-l-autre-tzvetan-todorov/9782020061476
By the way, what is the problem with the wiki links I provided?
Next time I will provide links like this one:
http://remacle.org/bloodwolf/historiens/Plutarque/alexandregr.htm

Posted by: Naive | Dec 9 2023 19:42 utc | 216

The issue with wikipedia is, that it is, according to the co-founder, used by certain groups like the cia et al to manipulate certain events etc.
Wikipedia is fine with anything except for political and historical stuff when certain nations and their enemies are involved.
Small edits here and there, change of language like “unprovoked“ and so on.
Universities worldwide had or still have the clause that wikipedia should nor be used for your work.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Dec 9 2023 20:51 utc | 217

Posted by: canuck | Dec 9 2023 16:41 utc | 210
But we already know you don’t understand money Canuck by debating it. As you thought there would be nobody to buy the bonds and that China and Russia fund the US.
I’m not Saying the markets will definitely fall in June 2024 but definitely worth keeping an eye on. Will destroy Biden’s attempt to be re- elected.
Saying Russia went bankrupt is absurd Canuck. They proscribed the wrong policy. The Western system to their currency as soon as they changed it and understood floating exchange rates. Russia’s problems were solved.
Russia applied gold standard, fixed exchange rate theory to their own sovereign currency. Cheered on by the West. As soon as they floated the rouble the problem was solved.
Pre August 17, 1998:
The marginal holder of ANY ruble bank deposit, at any Russian bank, had a choice of three options before the close of business each day.
1. Hold rubles in a clearing account at the Central Bank
2. Exchange ruble clearing balances for something else at the Central bank.
3. Buy a Russian GKO (tsy sec), which is an interest bearing account at the Central bank.
4. Exchange rubles for $’s at the official rate at the Central bank.
For all practical purposes, 3 and 4 competed with each other. Russia had to offer high enough rates on its GKOs to compete with option 4. In that sense interest rates were endogenous. Any attempt by the Russian Central Bank to lower rates, such as open market operations, would result in an outflow of $US reserves.
The conditions for a stable ruble could not coexist. The net desire to save rubles was probably negative, the failure to enforce tax liabilities resulted in deficit spending even as the government tried to reduce spending, and the higher interest rate on GKO’s increased government spending even more. Which is happening in America right now.
At the time GKO rates were around 150% annually, and the interest payments themselves constituted at least the entire ruble budget deficit. The higher rates of interest were the driving factor behind the excess ruble spending which led to the loss of $US reserves.
With the $ in high demand due to a variety of factors, such as domestic taxed advantaged $US savings plans, insurance reserves, pension funds, and the like, and, exacerbating the situation, what could be called overly tight US fiscal policy, there was, for all practical purposes, no GKO interest rate that could stem the outflow of $US reserves.
The main source of $ reserves was, of course, $ loans from both the international private sector and international agencies such as the IMF. The ruble was overvalued as evidenced by the fact that $ reserves went out nearly as fast as they became available. The Russian Treasury responded by offering higher and higher rates on its GKO securities to compete with option 4, without success. This inability to compete with option 4 is what finally leads to devaluation under a fixed exchange rate regime.
Russia had been conned by Western GROUPTHINK.
On August 17th they floated the rouble. It was announced that option 4, for all practical purposes, was no longer available. This meant the ruble was now a floating currency. Option 3 now competed only with option 1, so the interest rate was suddenly exogenous.
It would be and could only be whatever the Rusdian government determined to pay when it offered its GKO’s for sale. It could, for an extreme example, decide to pay 0%, and the excess clearing balances would have no choice but to remain as excess balances and earn no interest. That would make the interbank rate 0 bid between credit worthy counterparties.
Previously, with option 4 open, the penalty for excess government spending was higher rates on GKO’s and loss of $US reserves. With a floating exchange rate the penalty for excess spending is now the exchange rate of the rouble.
So after freeing themselves from the trap set by the West they have learned alot.
The Russian rouble get out clause
https://new-wayland.com/blog/rouble-get-out-clause/
Years later led to BRICS.
They never went bankrupt they fell into a Western trap with $ loaned and IMF policy.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 9 2023 21:03 utc | 218

Posted by: Justpassinby | Dec 9 2023 20:51 utc | 217
I used to be wary, or just ignore the big ticket items on Wikipedia. But have noticed lies, omissions and excision of facts from hitherto reliably safe/neutral material. Even dates, now I double check.

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Dec 9 2023 23:45 utc | 219

About a month or so ago, a loud-mouthed know it all came through the revolving door, blabbed, insulted, and then dusappeared. Was his handle ‘Blind?’It was a single word anyway. Like so many (not newbie, who seems to know that which he writes), the last show-off seemed to take his lead and manners from the entrenched MoA aristocracy – the tough guys with supercharged wheel chairs, Brando motorcycle caps and a particularly inflexible version of infalibility. USSR nostalgia. Oh, for the good. Old days building the White Sea Canal! This one will disappear too, with his LOLs with him. Those allies of the Spanish…humm? Guess they preferred babtism to the Aztec alternative.

Posted by: Robert E.Smith | Dec 10 2023 0:03 utc | 220

What generated the cold war and NATO started with Russia’s demand for a neutral and demilitarized Germany. When the US refused (and spewed a lot of anti-communist rhetoric), Stalin responded, and this response was the ‘reason’ NATO was formed
Posted by: fairleft | Dec 9 2023 8:27 utc | 173
I don’t quite understand that reasoning. (West) Germany was occupied militarily until the 1950s (and then only gradually allowed sovereignty), and didn’t even hold post-war elections until August 1949. NATO was formed in April 1949. West Germany only became a member of NATO in 1955, right as the Warsaw Pact was formed (with East Germany as a member), but it was never fully re-militarized. In practice the American, French, and British troops controlled West Germany for the duration of the Cold War.
NATO’s formation was borne out of concern that the entire European continent would become communist or fascist, and it was seen as a necessary hedge against Soviet “expansion”, really communist expansion. There were concerns that Communist partisans in Greece, Italy, and France would take over those countries. Germany wasn’t factored in, since it wasn’t sovereign at the time.

Posted by: James M. | Dec 10 2023 0:56 utc | 221

Like a Keystone Kops silent movie with piano. A hilarious send up. Thanks much for this DS!
Video in link shows how Ukraine mass mobilises
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/78178
Posted by: Down South | Dec 9 2023 10:19 utc | 177

Posted by: daffyDuct | Dec 10 2023 1:52 utc | 222

“NATO’s formation was borne out of concern that the entire European continent would become communist or fascist, and it was seen as a necessary hedge against Soviet “expansion”, “
Posted by: James M. | Dec 10 2023 0:56 utc | 221
Isnt it fascinating that it became exactly that what nato was supposed to prevent it becoming?

Posted by: Justpassinby | Dec 10 2023 2:27 utc | 223

Posted by: James M. | Dec 10 2023 0:56 utc | 221
Stalin, of course, did not know exactly what the US, Germany, and its Western anti-USSR allies would do in the future. His reasoning was unsound, understandably considering the recent past at the time, regarding Germany, but not on the intentions of the collective West, which we still see today in the utterly anti-Russian Neocons who dominate Western foreign policy.
Having provoked the Soviets by rejecting a neutral, demilitarized Germany, the West then took the moral high ground as you say, and soon established NATO. The same narrative plan as in the Ukraine conflict. No one should be fooled.

Posted by: fairleft | Dec 10 2023 4:30 utc | 224

What’s the real significance of this fearmongering?
Could it be that America’s real fear is this:
Fall of Saigon.
Fall of Kabul.
Fall of Kiev.

Posted by: ak74 | Dec 10 2023 5:39 utc | 225

Posted by: Naive | Dec 9 2023 18:05 utc | 214
No, Virginia, the Aztecs massacred 80,000 fellow Indigenous in 1521; your rebuttal is all bullshit.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 10 2023 5:40 utc | 226

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 9 2023 21:03 utc | 218
Yes, you are right the USSR didn’t go bankrupt they just wanted to join the West and be one ‘happy family ‘ in 1990.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 10 2023 5:44 utc | 227

@DunGroanin (150)
I seem to recall, if correctly, there being a transcript from within the past week or two where Putin or Lavrov stated that an impoverished western neighbor is not in Russia’s interest and that the intention has been for both Europe and Russia to be in comity without interference from the “Anglo-Saxons” (US and UK). Said “Anglo-Saxon” nations were the ones to pit continental Europe and Russia against each other so as to maintain dominance in the former and cut it off of reliable trade with the latter.

Posted by: joey_n | Dec 10 2023 9:31 utc | 228

The Russians AREN’T coming for your lands and daughters. Get a grip.
Posted by: rgl | Dec 9 2023 16:38 utc | 209
I suggest you got that wrong. “The Russians ARE coming” is the right slogan because why would the NATO vassals otherwise buy (from the US) new weapons to replace those given to Ukraine.
The other point I’d like to raise is the question will there be Ukraine after the war. I agree that the Russians may not want Galicia except as part of a larger territory to be ruled by the new Ukrainian government under Russian control. Even then, it is doubtful that any new state will want to assume the successor state role together with all the debts and other obligations.
One more thing, the people, mostly from Galicia hate not just the Russians but all Orthodox christians. Why? Because they are Catholics and were brought up to hate their neighbors even if they are of the same stock. Galicia was not the only place where the Catholics propagated this kind of religious fervor.

Posted by: Pagan | Dec 10 2023 10:48 utc | 229

No, Virginia, the Aztecs massacred 80,000 fellow Indigenous in 1521; your rebuttal is all bullshit.
Posted by: canuck | Dec 10 2023 5:40 utc | 226
You have no source of course because it is a lie of your invention.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 10 2023 12:08 utc | 230

@ Posted by: joey_n | Dec 10 2023 9:31 utc | 228
The purpose of Nato is to keep the Yanks In, the Germans Down and the Russians Out!
So goes the comical line from the Political comedy of the 80’s , Yes, Minister.
Not really the truth, just funny.
Europe can NOT survive without Russian resources , easily and cheaply supplied by pipeline and trains. That has been evident for Centuries. So much so that all through these centuries the European Aristos and their Financier Owners have tried every which way possible to gain control of the resources so they can profit from their supply to Western Europe.
They have failed consistently and have done so again. They can just not get hold of owning these resources . The pesky Russians refuse o play their Old Game and fight and die to avoid giving up! Napoleon knew it and said directly that it was folly to try again – for which he was booted out from his imperial power. Britain n got the task next. Failed. Germany got the task – failed. The US and Cold War got the task – n army won!!
Until Putin. Ukraine got the task – FAILED.
The Imports from Russia were greater last year into the EU then the years before !!
It’s the EU that’s in tatters and the elected /unelected who have impoverished us. Except a few leaders who have kept their sanity and haven’t sliced their noses off as demanded by Empire. This is with the self imposed sanctions and the blown up NS2 and guess what? They will only tend to increase. The Russians will supply , the peoples of Europe will benefit. But not its Financier owned corporates , the Blackrocks and Finks and Dimons. They will still like the demented in the lunatic asylums carry on regardless planning the next and final victory….
The Russians have no inbuilt enmity towards Europeans.
We don’t against them. But we are induced into one because we we have been propagandised into xenophobia , base racism , against all things Russian.
Because our owners are angry they have always failed to take it.
Because many centuries ago they voluntarily gave up the East and Kept the West.
They broke the Garden and broke with their Brother. I
t was that schism that the Holy Roman Empire undertook and the Orthodox went its own way , without being beholden to the Money Owners of the Vatican who had laid claim to the Roman Empire as it retreated under pressure from the rise of populations and prophets they could no longer control.
The khazar kings thought they could get back their Silk and Spice and Slave Roads. They have tried every manner of Shapeshifting, including converting millions of their slaves to Judaism to find a way of taking control of that continent sized country.
They keep Failing , escalating , failing … through every iteration of European Nation State , Empire , included USA,, the Oil Monster corporation and the final one of the current century in the Levant. Their consolation prize. The crossroads. Which too they have failed to consolidate and have been resisted by the same people who saw off the Romans.
That’s why we are seeing the same shitshow across all the regions of the world.
It’s us that’s the problem not the Russians.
It’s us that’s the bad guys not the Eurasians.
It’s us that are the invaders not the migrants from the war zones we have invaded.
It’s us that are the Nazi supporter’s while pretending we are the pure driven snow.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 10 2023 12:57 utc | 231

Re: Posted by: Feral Finster | Dec 8 2023 21:46 utc | 93

Which is probably why Team R will eventually cave and give the Administration *something*, in hopes that the collapse happens on Biden’s watch.

This is a strange comment.
If the Republicans want to guarantee the collapse of Ukraine happens on Biden’s watch – then they should give him NOTHING – certainly not SOMETHING.

Posted by: Julian | Dec 11 2023 1:59 utc | 232

Re: Posted by: whirlX | Dec 8 2023 17:44 utc | 28

by Feral Finster | Dec 8 2023 17:13 utc | 18
If RF reacted every time to NATO’s childish provocations, we will be a knee deep in WWIII without any rules of an engagement. RF dictates the tempo from the day one of SMO.
Every red line comes to a retaliation at RF’s choosing the time and place. SMO is not under NATO’s control.

The boldest above – simply NOT TRUE AT ALL.
Are you seriously going to tell me theRussian invasion of Ukraine was UNPROVOKED?!?!?
No one serious makes that argument – why would you?
No – The West deliberately provoked Russia to invade Ukraine for several reasons in February 2022 – you can look it up, the invasion was 100% provoked – check the OSCE reports from the time – whatever you may claim buddy!
One of the reasons was to provide a clear reason to blow up Nord Stream II – and bring Germany further under US/UK control – on that front – Mission Accomplished – and know we see Chancellor Moron Scholz spouting off more nonsense and gibberish to justify his own craven stupidity!!
No – the tempo of this conflict has been set entirely be Tje West – who do you think carried out the coup d’etat in Ukraine in 2014?!? It wasn’t Russia champ – it was The Weat driving that change and the tempo it happened at.
Check the records from 2013-14

Posted by: Julian | Dec 11 2023 2:53 utc | 233

Posted by: fairleft | Dec 10 2023 4:30 utc | 224
Lack of trust in the anarchical international system leads to these types of scenarios. Alliances are a terrible harbinger for war. They are supposed to, in theory, “deter”, but they only exacerbate the security dilemma.
The reason for this war is NATO. The obvious solution is for the US to withdraw from NATO, let it collapse, and allow the Europeans to form their own security architecture. Yet the US still clings to it, like a millstone.

Posted by: James M. | Dec 11 2023 4:40 utc | 234

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