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December 8, 2023
Biden Administration Fearmongers Over Article 5 Event

Stoltenberg is a mediocre salesman:

NATO chief says Ukraine will join the military alliance, subject to reforms, after the war – Yahoo / Euronews – Nov 28, 2023

Ukraine will become a member of NATO subject to reforms after the war, the military alliance’s secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, said on Monday.

He was speaking ahead of a meeting of foreign ministers in Brussels, at which the alliance is expected to reaffirm its support for Ukraine’s defence against Russia’s full-scale invasion.

Whatever Stoltenberg might say, it is not going to happen. There is no purpose for Ukraine to be integrated to NATO except for U.S. self-aggrandization. Some assume that NATO membership would protect Ukraine from further attacks by Russia. It would not.

The U.S. itself does not believes that NATO membership protects any country from being attacked by Russia:

‘If you think the price is high now’ – Kirby outlines price U.S. will pay if Ukraine loses war – Yahoo – Dec 7, 2023

“America will not only spend money, but also shed its own blood,” if the U.S. doesn't assist Ukraine in its war against Russia and Russia prevails, said National Security spokesperson John Kirby during a briefing.
…
“If you think the cost of supporting Ukraine is high now just imagine how much higher it's going to be not just in National Treasure but in American blood if he [Putin] starts going after one of our NATO allies… we [will] take our Article 5 commitments very seriously,” said Kirby.
…
“American boots would very much have to be involved if Mr. Putin is allowed to have this strategic victory in Ukraine and then perhaps goes after one of our NATO allies,” Kirby added.

Kirby obviously believes that NATO membership does not protect one from a Russian attack. He fearmongers about U.S. participation in a war under an allegedly binding Article 5 event.

But it is a myth that Article 5 of the Washington Treaty (which founded NATO) will guarantee that others would come to a members defense with their own armies.

Article 5 does not say anything like that. Here is its essence:

The Parties agree … that .. each of them … will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith … such action as it deems necessary …

"Such action as it deems necessary …" may include a lot of potential measures (including none) which differ from sending one's army.

Would the U.S. really go to war with another nuclear superpower over some tussle between Estonia (1.4 million inhabitants of which a third are ethnic Russian) and the Russian Federation?

I for one find this very unlikely.

Posted by b on December 8, 2023 at 16:25 UTC | Permalink
Comments

“…you can replace Islam with Western Civilization and apply that logic to Africans, Aztecs and whatever ” less developed ” cultures the West conquered…”
In this case the ‘conquered’ were the victims of the Brahmin and warrior castes,
It is certainly true that Christianity- which the East India Company refused to introduce- offered similar advantages which is why Kerala and other south Indian states have substantial Chistian communities pre-dating Islam.
As to my other point. I see that you have answered it: Modi is taking measures to remedy a wrong committed, according to his ideas, around a thousand years ago by Central Asian Turkic invaders.
It’s not hard to see why he feels sympathy for Zionists who claim to be returning after a mere two millenia.
Is there not a statute of limitations in history?
Moonie | Dec 8 2023 21:43 utc | 91

Posted by: bevin | Dec 8 2023 22:04 utc | 101

snake | Dec 8 2023 21:48 utc | 94–
Thanks for your reply. No, the Empire needs it for to keep its own prices down. I’ll bet lots of Russian oil “washed” by India has ended up in our gas tanks already. Same with the EU. Geoeconomic dependency on Russian hydrocarbons was a given from which there’s no escape currently. The Empire’s terror bombing of Nord Stream merely caused Russian LNG shipments to skyrocket just in time for Russian’s Yamal terminal expansion.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 22:05 utc | 102

There are no innocents on this planet.
Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 21:56 utc | 99
I beg to disagree completely. The first problem is monotheism which jsutify mass killings and racism.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 8 2023 22:06 utc | 103

” And yet you’re worried about the wars of conquest many centuries ago? Sad state of affairs in India these days, I guess.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 8 2023 21:57 utc | 100 ”
Not worried at all, I just stated some justifications as to why many Hindus dont look too fondly on Muslims in India. Additionally, the US colonies were established several centuries ago. I guess its time for Native Americans to drop their grievances also.

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 22:15 utc | 104

The only reason the USA won ww2 against Germany was because Russia bled the most, The Brits had a magnificent navy and empire, and the French aided in guerrilla warfare (what resistance?)
They devoured the Wehrmacht but that meal could only last for so long, then the USA hobbled Europe and brought all that industrial capacity to the heartland which was already potent, the Midwest was a paradise of healthy, happy, well educated people who would give the shirt off your back.
However that model became exhausted because the USA busted a huge nut in Vietnam and the rest of South East Asia.
They revved up the engine so hard that the people dared to ask to be paid fairly for the labor they were producing for Uncle Sam, so TPTB decided to send all that industry they stole from Europe and was now in USA to Asia, and slowly, quietly in 1965 bringing massive immigration to discard the untermenchsen who knew their rights and responsiblities as We The People, the Midwest and Coastal enclaves were hollowed out, gone were the good job, the healthy people and the gains in racial justice, a new angry more diverse collection of people were brought in and continues unabated to further weaken what was once a great country.
All this blabbering on my part is simply expressing why the USA will lose this war against Russia, China, Iran and North Korea.
The USA and Europe are extremely weak, the Russians were kept weak but have finally after all of our hoping and waiting are finally going on the attack against the Bush/Clinton/Obama World Order.
This is the moment so many of us have been praying for where the USA wave tyranny would finally face off against the Russian Rock and smash itself against it.
The USA beat Germany because it had Russia, UK and France as help. It no longer has Russia, UK and France are shadows of what they once were thanks to the USA feasting upon them for so long, now the USA is fighting ALONE and Russia has China, Iran and North Korea backing it up.
I for one hope that Russia keeps fighting until they reach the borders of Warsay, swallow up Ukraine and devastate NATO forever.
Let freedom ring!!

Posted by: Fernando Martinez | Dec 8 2023 22:20 utc | 105

Moonie | Dec 8 2023 20:45 utc | 79
It is. If I walk through a nice paddock of green grass and step in some soft green mud, I know it is cowshit. If I walk around outside and there is stink on my shoes, it is generally because I have trod in dogshit.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 22:21 utc | 106

” Is there not a statute of limitations in history?
Moonie | Dec 8 2023 21:43 utc | 91
Posted by: bevin | Dec 8 2023 22:04 utc | 101 ”
We actually agree on this point very strongly. There should be a reasonable cutoff point for all the various grievances various human groups hold against each other. My only wish is that they be applied equitably. Like I said before, there are no innocent groups on this planet.

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 22:25 utc | 107

India… I see both sides of the coin there.
Russia has energy carrots. For Turkey the gas hub, for India the oil. Russia is happy enogh to have them as the middlemen. Win win lose. Russia wins, the middlemen wins, the empire and vassals primarily the vassals lose as US itself has not sanctioned Russian energy. As with fertilizers, I believe US waived its own sanctions on Russian oil.
Perhaps it is a matter of waiting to see which side the Indian coin will land on.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 22:29 utc | 108

” I beg to disagree completely. The first problem is monotheism which jsutify mass killings and racism.
Posted by: Naive | Dec 8 2023 22:06 utc | 103 ”
For instance, How many non-Asians did the Mongols slaughter ? Was that because of racism ? Were Mongols monotheistic ? I can tell by your word choice that you are using a elective application of your logic.

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 22:29 utc | 109

” Perhaps it is a matter of waiting to see which side the Indian coin will land on.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 22:29 utc | 108 ”
It will land on its edge perfectly balanced. 🙂

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 22:34 utc | 110

” It is. If I walk through a nice paddock of green grass and step in some soft green mud, I know it is cowshit. If I walk around outside and there is stink on my shoes, it is generally because I have trod in dogshit.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 22:21 utc | 106 ”
This must be that famous, stoic, German humor we here about. I’m too slow to get it though.

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 22:36 utc | 111

In fact it’s usually both. “Full Scale Unprovoked Invasion!”
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 8 2023 18:58 utc | 50
“Full Scale Unprovoked Brutal Invasion!”

Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 8 2023 22:38 utc | 112

Moonie | Dec 8 2023 22:29 utc | 109
Much of what we see occurring now revolves around or is the culture of the Holy Roman Empire of the treaties of westphalia. It is a mindset, a culture of the anglo European so called west.
What is termed the west today is the countries involved in the treaties of Westphalia.
The war against Russia in Ukraine was literal;y on the border where the Church of Rome ends and the Church of Constantinople begins. Galicia catholic, merging through to fully orthodox christian in the Russian Donbass

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 22:39 utc | 113

karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 21:03 utc | 82
Thank you for providing the transcript and the link to the video of soldiers and relatives talking to President Putin. He was moved by their feedback and their request for him to continue as their leader. It is not surprising that Artyom Zhoga broke protocol to speak directly to the President. Artyom Zhoga has been fighting for the Donbas since 2014. He took over command of the famous reconnaissance battalion “Sparta” on the death of his son Vladimir Zhoga (call sign “Vokha”). Both fought under the command of Arsen Pavlov (call sign “Motorola”).

Posted by: cirsium | Dec 8 2023 22:55 utc | 114

Giyane:
The US did not take over the British empire, they did something much worse which was to insist that, before it lost the capacity to do so, it pay of its ‘debt’ to US financiers. Which involved the UK having on the one hand to keep a lid on living standards and, secondly, to turbo-exploit places like Malaya with its rubber, tin and many other resources, and Africa’s colonies for theirs. Ghana’s cocoa, Tanganyika’s (projected) ground nut bonanza, Kenya’s exports etc all contributed to paying off the ‘debt’ Britain incurred for the premature anti fascism of going to war in 1939.
The screws were put on throughout the shrinking empire and all over the burgeoning commonwealth- and greatly to Washington’s delight, doing so enormously changed the ability of the Labour Party to do very much more than the minimum inthe way of reform. Which led, in turn to the reinstallation of the US puppets in the Tory party. And the consolidation- in the teeth of its supporters- of the cryptio fascist Labour right.”
Posted by: bevin | Dec 8 2023 19:42 utc | 66
The 1945-1950 Labour party made a gigantic mistake. They took a $5 billion loan from US and Canada in 1946. AJP Taylor’s biography of Lord Beaverbrook, 1972, pg. 571:
“Beaverbrook believed the Socialists and the bankers [the City] were united against the Empire. Keynes interrupted Beaverbrook’s speech with the remark: “I’ve never heard anything so phony” It was Keynes statistics which were phony….
We can say what would have happened if Great Britain had not accepted the American loan. In 1947 the British government fulfilled the conditions imposed by the loan. Sterling was made convertible. The dollars obtained by the loan vanished overnight. The loan might just as well have not been made except for the obligations remaining on Britain…the loan proved to be totally unnecessary. Beaverbrook had been entirely right, Keynes, the bankers, the economists and the Labour ministers had been entirely wrong”. ‘
The UK loan was finally paid off in 2006.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 8 2023 22:58 utc | 115

Pre British India, what was India? It is a very old civilization, but does not seen to have any form of central government, that is if we were to look at both British India and India’s current borders. So what is India? Is it simply Hinduism? If that were the case there is the very recent addition of the Hudutva ideology that seemed to morph somewhat with RSS and its relationship to prewar fascist Europe – Mussolini Italy and Nazi Germany.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 23:10 utc | 116

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 22:29 utc | 109
I can tell by your choice of questions that you are using an absence of logic.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 8 2023 23:13 utc | 117

Pre British India, what was India? It is a very old civilization, but does not seen to have any form of central government, that is if we were to look at both British India and India’s current borders. So what is India? Is it simply Hinduism? If that were the case there is the very recent addition of the Hudutva ideology that seemed to morph somewhat with RSS and its relationship to prewar fascist Europe – Mussolini Italy and Nazi Germany.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 23:10 utc | 116

The last time the whole subcontinent was politically unified was during the peak of the Mauryan Empire, circa 260 B.C.
But even that did not include the southernmost tip of it.
However, very importantly, it did include Pakistan.
There are really two options here — Pakistan + India + Bangladesh as a single “civilizational” state.
Or a patchwork of small and weak states, which won’t be ethnically homogeneous even then, because the place is so mixed (look at the unrest in the northeast this year for a demo of what that looks like).
Obviously the former is preferable for the people living there — that’s the only way to have a strong and independent state — but the British did their usual divide-and-conquer thing as a parting gift, by helping set up Pakistan on both sides of India to keep it in check (Bangladesh was originally East Pakistan).
Kind of like what they want Ukraine to be. Imagine a nuclear Ukraine, then compare to the role Pakistan has been playing with respect to India. Lots of similarities.
The difference is India was never strong enough to prevent Pakistan from acquiring nukes. Russia is.
P.S. The long-term plan here is, and some people affiliated with certain Western think-tanks did give it away by publishing such partition maps, is to first partition Russia, then do the same to all other countries that are “too large” and pose a potential threat. It was already successfully accomplished with the USSR and Yugoslavia, but Russia remained still too large after the end of the USSR. Next on the list will be China (Tibet, Xinyang, and potentially a few other regions), then India (lots of potential for ethnic separatism there), Iran (same thing), one day Indonesia (all those islands, that will be easy), eventually even Brazil, though that one will be hard, because Brazil is quite homogenous.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Dec 8 2023 23:26 utc | 118

cirsium | Dec 8 2023 22:55 utc | 114–
Thanks for your reply and the info you provided. The impassioned sincerity was quite real, IMO; you could hear it in their voices. Note you don’t see videos of Zelensky awarding medals to Ukie troops.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 23:30 utc | 119

NATO exists to act as a captive market for Amerikastani weapons and as a source of askari troops for Amerikastani wars of colonial aggression. To imagine Amerikastan will sacrifice New Pork or Warshington for the Baltic pipsqueaks is asinine.

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 8 2023 23:35 utc | 120

“Modi is a wiley player”
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 18:52 utc | 49
I agree.
Modi and Erdogan are cut from the same cloth. They both figure, perhaps correctly, that they can increase their power/leverage by playing both sides.
However, on the other side of the coin, the West or Russia/China/Iran axis will never trust either completely.
Or maybe they are waiting for the propitious moment to go “all in” with one side or the other depending, of course, whom is in the ascendant or whom gives the outliers the better deal?
Your thoughts?

Posted by: canuck | Dec 8 2023 23:43 utc | 121

⚡️AFU are now surrendering on a special Russian channel made to do so. One such soldier surrendered, speaking of major losses of his unit, and provided detailed documents of all his brigade’s essentials

https://twitter.com/simpatico771/status/1733196304568791121
Apparently large part of those surrendering are so called 0-recruits (0 days of training). And 0-recruits make a big portion of all new mobilized.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 8 2023 23:44 utc | 122

Dont forget “war of aggression“. Lately some publications and officials love to throw that around.
“brutal, unprovoked, fullscale invasion and war of aggression“
“values“.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Dec 8 2023 23:48 utc | 123

In response to Blue Dotterel@7,
What, you don’t believe that Lithuania will come to the rescue of the US in the event that Martians invade?

Posted by: Skiffer | Dec 8 2023 23:48 utc | 124

The more I hear of plans for Ukraine “after the war”, the more I am hoping that Russia is going to nix most for the sake of the people of Ukraine and the country – and the people of Russia.
NATO membership so western weapons and military bases can be placed on the territory of Ukraine
BlackRock rebuilding with US tax dollars that will feed enormous corruption and money laundering
Alex Soros – a toxic waste chemical disposal site in Ukraine’s western agricultural lands
Weapons and artillery manufacturing – to build a stockpile for going against the Donbass again?

Posted by: Belle | Dec 8 2023 23:51 utc | 125

” I can tell by your choice of questions that you are using an absence of logic.
Posted by: Naive | Dec 8 2023 23:13 utc | 117 ”
You are too thin skinned.

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 23:56 utc | 126

Your confusion is a consequence of using the wrong pronouns. You start off well enough with ‘I’ and ‘I,’ but then you start throwing ‘we’ around as if you are one of the architects of US global hegemony, or that the people who are have any shared interests with you. There is no ‘we’ here. Once you grasp that, the mysteries begin to evaporate like snowflakes on a hot shovel.
Posted by: Honzo | Dec 8 2023 19:15 utc | 59
Douchebag alert.

Posted by: NigelTufnel11 | Dec 8 2023 23:57 utc | 127

Alex Soros signs deals with Ukraine (ministry of ecology and natural resources) to allocate 400km2 of fertile land for toxic waste disposal from companies such as DuPont and Dow Chemical.
https://magyarnemzet.hu/english/2023/12/new-soros-plan-to-bury-chemical-waste-in-ukrainian-farmland

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 8 2023 23:58 utc | 128

If the “West” were to continue, via insurgencies and terror, this war against Russia, the last thing it would do is to officially join the remaining Ukraine into NATO. It would suit its purposes better to have a non-aligned entity to carry on a dirty war so that the “West” remains blameless. In this age of portable missiles and drones, Russia can not afford to have the rump Ukraine be source of perpetual irritation. In the first instance Russia will have to secure the entire border of present Ukraine before cutting loose any portion of it and insurance for discontinuance of hostilities will not be just simple pledges on paper.

Posted by: YY | Dec 9 2023 0:08 utc | 129

Pathetic Soltenberg.. he doesn’t know what to say anymore to calm the wrath of Ukraine that was promised accession to NATO.
He should rush his final departure and leave the NATO looming humiliation to the next chief.. maybe annalena baerbrock or Chrystia Freeland or even to Taylor Swift…

Posted by: Virgile | Dec 9 2023 0:34 utc | 130

I have not been able to find an American reason that would justify, to my mind, that USA should be a party to NATO. Can somebody please tell me what American reason exist for the USA to be in NATO?
Posted by: snake | Dec 8 2023 16:43 utc | 6
————————————————————-
So that they can own it, of course? The US invented NATO, it is the US Military Alliance: Or should we say NATO is the US axis of evil.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 9 2023 0:41 utc | 131

Pumping Ukraine with weapons comes at high price for Belgium as it’s so critically short on ammunition that soldiers will have to “throw stones” at the enemy within hours of war.
If war breaks out here,
we will have to throw stones after just a few hours
due to shortage of ammunition – former top general Thys.
Thys reveals army needs €5-7 BILLION but currently has to make do with pitiful €150 million in meagre funding
So it’s rocks v shovels

Posted by: Hankster | Dec 9 2023 0:43 utc | 132

How dare Austin assume gender by announcing sons and daughters will fight Russia. Usa marines are full of free surgery non binary freaks so he should be more sensitive to those he leads. 🙂

Posted by: Hankster | Dec 9 2023 0:44 utc | 133

Here, just a response to the original post… Thanks, b.
I’ve read and heard multiple analysts–mostly anti- proxy war ones–say that Ukraine will never be allowed to join NATO as long as its at war with Russia, since joining NATO would mean that all NATO members would immediately also be at war with Russia the moment that happened.

Posted by: Lukacs | Dec 9 2023 0:47 utc | 134

The US fighting Russia would have little popular support, that aside losing even more so, the US can’t risk losing even more their reputation as the bully. Of course if Europe is corrupt enough, and they are, to add to the body bag count then the US will happily throw them into the meat grinder.
One wonders how long Europe can last until its completely bankrupted being halfway there already. All of history to learn the lessons of the evils of war and yet we are still so easily manipulated into it.

Posted by: Organic | Dec 9 2023 1:12 utc | 135

It is like there is no admittance that there have been NATO boots on the ground since the beginning of the SMO because NATO was part of Ukraine trainers.
The fear mongering is just that, being a bully and threatening escalation that has already been shown to fail.
What is the next phase of our civilization war?
Ukraine is the resource corner and China surround proxy war gambit that is not working.
Occupied Palestine is the monotheistic proxy war on the edge of the God Of Mammon center.
How can the God Of Mammon cult set up a global economic crash that leaves them with same or more power/control? I don’t see that as the outcome and see the opposite instead….the end of global private finance and unending inherited wealth in the hands of a few.
Human merit is going to replace Stoltenberg salesmanship, thank goodness.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 9 2023 1:17 utc | 136

This is something I predicted if Ukraine started to falter. It’s a natural next step to threaten escalation of various kinds (NATO membership, US troops on the ground, etc.) I’m not sure if they go forward on it or not. But the sabre rattling? Expected.
Really, it’s sort of the mirror image of Putin mentioning the tacnuke option when things looked bad for Russia. I certainly hope that the Biden administration does not proceed. But that they allude to their options? Expected.

Posted by: Anonymous | Dec 9 2023 1:19 utc | 137

canuck | Dec 8 2023 23:43 utc | 121 “Your thoughts?”
In general about the same as yours. Specific things I look at though is extremism. That is something that is a useful tool for perfidious albion and her offspring. A fracture point into which a wedge can be driven.
I class ideologies and religions that class some or many groups as subhumans as extremist. The four extremist ideologies/religions I see are Nazism, Zionism, CIA Wahhabi islamic extremism, and Hindutva.
Erdogan does not class the likes of AQ and ISIS as terrorists/extremists.
Mein Kampf was a best seller in turkey around 2005. Many ISIS/AQ recruits have come from Erdogan’s ‘Greater Turkey’ the Muslim Turkic peoples.
Some years ago, two different english language Hinduva sites stated that they are the true Aryans and destined to rule the world. Both have since cleaned up the english language sites. I have-nt read much on the sanskrit sites as machine translation was not the best. But around the same timeframe, the website of the World Zionist organization cleaned its English language image a bit by putting various aspect/pages (settlements ect) into Hebrew which google would not translate.
The Galicians of Ukraine with their fictional history also believe themselves to be the true Aryans. Hindutva history in that aspect is as fictional as nazi Galician history.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2023 1:22 utc | 138

Which is probably why Team R will eventually cave and give the Administration *something*, in hopes that the collapse happens on Biden’s watch.
Posted by: Feral Finster | Dec 8 2023 21:46 utc | 93
————————————————————————
Well, maybe not. As “b” pointed out in his December 6 blog: U.S. Is Withholding Aid to Push Ukraine Towards Negotiations with Russia, Biden may really want the Repubs to block funding for a little while longer. I don’t think that anyone really believes that Biden would send in troops to fight Russia at this point, maybe after the election. But if Biden wants to commit political hari-kari, I am sure the Repubs will stand back and let him do it.
Try to imagine Biden’s chances of winning a second term with US troop bogged down in the trenches in Ukraine, and body bags coming home in time for an election.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 9 2023 1:29 utc | 139

Posted by Mike R @20:23
Thanks for the response. Was trying to recall the infamous Espionage Act which was a key element in the terrorist regime of Wilson, Baruch and House. However the old memory glands do sag at times, as I tend to suffer from CIO (Chronic Information Overload).
“Hell No, we won’t go”…remembered it well from participating in the immense San Francisco peace march in the Fall of ’69. Even the Committee for Homosexual Freedom, the first of the Gay Liberation movements, in close accord with both the Black Panthers and the American Indian Movement, were hoisting a banner: “Bring the Beautiful Boys Back Home”. That year was the apogee of all antiwar liberation groups…genuine radicalism/populism, call ill what you may. Helluva lot of fun, I would say.
Just chatted this afternoon with a first-wave Gen-Z (2000 model) small town hardware store facilitator. Portions of Gen Y and a pleasantly surprising proportion of Z’s, at least in rural America are awakening. Other side of the coin was at a supermarket in the same small town. Spoke with several folks in my War-Baby minuscule gen, as well as Boomers. Their acute itches were about the soaring prices of groceries and similar necessities…very anti-government and even sour towards all the taxpayer $$$ going to Ukraine and I$rael…also the massive migrant invasion, along with financial assistance greater than their Social Security incomes.
So who still supports the system? Government workers, of course. That would include numerous school teachers and college professors, along with those at the peak of the economic scrotumpole…Even a significant development amongst many American Blacks…last hired and first hired…are pretty pissed about the border-crossers potentially invading their edgy economic niches. Oh yes, I forgot to cite the terminally deluded, the Rupturites and similar religious nutcases as well as the ones who grew up on Boobtoob Noose and that deliberately dumbed-down edjumacaisional system.
The fringe on top do not ilnclude many adults in the room. They are becoming increasingly nervous. The biggest fear amongst the ruling financial elite…three simple words…”Out of Control”.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 9 2023 1:31 utc | 140

Posted by Naive @2108
Keen analogy. Thanks.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 9 2023 1:35 utc | 141

There are no innocents on this planet.
Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 21:56 utc | 99
—————————————————————-
I disagree: Children are innocent.

Posted by: Ed | Dec 9 2023 1:38 utc | 142

We’re skimming over an important bit here.
“Ukraine will become a member of NATO subject to reforms after the war”
Which says basically that Russia can never allow the war to end.

Posted by: Promptcritical | Dec 9 2023 1:46 utc | 143

Posted by Karlof1@2135
Fascinating tidbit regarding that tanker from Nororossisk to the U$$A. Significant, actually, in torpedoing the entire sanctions shtick. Just this evening gas stations in my area were down to $3.07/gallon for regular gasoline. Didn’t pay any attention to diesel. Wondering whether any of this incoming petroleum is being employed to restore the National Strategic Reserve, or whether it’s a ploy to keep the serfs mollified.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 9 2023 1:53 utc | 144

Very true Ed.
Yet the suffer for their parents actions…

Posted by: bubarooni | Dec 9 2023 2:02 utc | 145

Fascinating tidbit regarding that tanker from Nororossisk to the U$$A.
Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 9 2023 1:53 utc | 144

Putin should get the Nicholas II treatment for this.
Those bastards have killed tens of thousands of your soldiers and you are sending them tankers with oil? Cheap too…

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Dec 9 2023 2:13 utc | 146

Modi and Erdogan are not world leaders like Putin and Xi, and Russia and China are not demanding that of them. The multipolar world won’t consist of Russia/China and their obedient vassal states. India can have ‘anti-Muslim’ policies and the center (China/Russia) won’t interfere. Turkey and India can play the East/West leverage game and the center won’t interfere. That’s what true post-hegemony, really allowing for sovereignty, looks like.
It’s not a 100% positive picture, and it means these states won’t be trusted by China/Russia, like insider Belarus is, but China/Russia neither want nor need many states to have that status.
Anyway, India always pursuing its regional needs, always working its leverage, means (imho) its China/Russia relations will always be grey and not black/white. Bhadrakumar, for example, provides insight on another aspect of India’s complex foreign policy: Indian Russian Convergence in the Bay of Bengal.

Posted by: fairleft | Dec 9 2023 2:20 utc | 147

Bhadrakumar Link
Not sure why link didn’t work…

Posted by: fairleft | Dec 9 2023 2:23 utc | 148

Peter AU@2239
You did spot the sore spot. Galicia, once basically Russian Orthodox. was incorporated into the Jagellonian Confederacy between the R.C. Poles and their originally quite strong Lithuanian fellow religionists. Over time more and more of the people of Galicia…and to a lesser degree…Volhynia…decided to side with the Roman Church, but with Orthodox rituals, calling themselves “Uniates”.
The schizophrenia of that culture tended to further metastasize when those Oblasts came under Habsburg domination and an even more extreme affinity with Rome. Over those centuries the residents of those regions got a bit on the ethno-egotistic wavelength, considering themselves “Westerners” rather than Eastern Slavic brothers, whom they ultimately began to deride as “Muscovites” and similar derogations.
Came about the long-planned elites WWI, followed in less than 20 full years by WWII, where Galicia was “abducted” by the USSR following the Molotov-Ribbentrop accord. That hiatus lasted a bit more than a year, until June 22,1941 when a massive Wehrmacht assault soon “liberated” the Galicians. With that situation, the previously fascistic elements in Galicia rose to the top, becoming more Nazi than the Wehrmacht itself, organizing militarily as SS elements and happily massacred Jews, Poles and ethnic Russians.
Today, in concert with Zelensky and other Khazarian/Ashkenazi Zionists in a truly Frankenstinian conglomeration; the prominent in the Maidan coup Banderites developed into the hardened fist of the coup regime in Kiev…as well as some of the more dedicated shock-troops assaulting NovoRossian Oblasts in Donetsk and Luhansk, slaughtering ethnic Russian civilians at nearly an industrial pace.
Thereby, today’s immanent collapse of the Banderite/Ashkenazi regime, as Mama Bear has got its act together and has become the most powerful military machine in the Heartland of Eurasia…and most probably in the entire world.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 9 2023 2:30 utc | 149

Boots. On the ground.
That is the only equation.
The natzios have only done it once. In the war on a word , terror. Picking targets that couldn’t resist much against asymmetrical warfare.
The Collective West ain’t got enough idiot millions to do that. Hasn’t for nearly 30 years.
I remember when the British armed forces were suddenly disbanded in the early nighties as part of the ‘peace dividend’. There were plenty of us raised to join the ranks as kids through cadet organisations. It’s a long story :..
Anyway there are no boots on the ground available without conscription. Or a few million proxy Indians.
Anyway it won’t happen as Russia has no need or desire to come within a barge poles length of putrid Europe. Putin doesn’t need it. The Multipolarity can survive without it.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 9 2023 2:35 utc | 150

Posted by unimperator @23:44
Long have I been mourning the massive butcher’s bill that the Kiev regime has imposed upon the ever-suffering people of Ukraine. Along with that emotional downer, my hopes have been for massive surrenders so that the Ukrainian people do not fritter away into but a shadow of their past glories and future potential. Those latest conscripts, the 0’s as you posit, are for the most part waaaay past the breeding age, though their teenage comrades who probably surrendered along with their wise elders, may find a happy hunting grounds amongst bereft young widows and thus help to restore some form of a demographic balance.
These survivors will become the core elements within the new Ukraine, limited in scope to those populations where the Ukrainian dialect prevails heavily in a number of the central Oblasts. Logic tells me that in manner similar to that of Belarus; that the new iteration of Ukraine will develop a quasi-confederation with Mother Russia.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 9 2023 2:44 utc | 151

Posted by unimperator@23:58
Ah yes, little Georgie of our $orrow$ favorite son and the financier/corporate scheme to swallow hole massive amounts of the most productive farmlands on the planet and turn them over to the chemical-warfare regime, where along with massive amounts of chemical fertilizer, that organic wonderland will be visited in massive overlays of herbicides, pesticides and everything else foul and filthy besides.
To my way of thinking this is the Numero Uno reason why the RU must totally defeat the Maidan Coup regime in Kiev and establish in central Ukraine, a totally new government, with key contributors being Ukrainian refugees, some currently in Europe, many in Mother Russia; along with surrendered Ukrainian soldiers, something like 30,000 of them who would form the new iteration of Ukrainian nationhood. Such a reformational government would immediately declare all contracts and promises by the terrorist regime to be null and void and all funds given over to the present regime…and still extant…to become the property of the Ukrainian people…and after a transitional/renewal period…to hold referendums to decide on future organizational principles.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 9 2023 3:15 utc | 152

Posted by shadowbanned @2:13
Are you perhaps a bit in your cups? I was unable to comprehend the purport and tenor of your posting. Please explain.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 9 2023 3:23 utc | 153

@Refinnejenna | Dec 8 2023 20:08 utc | 71

Jens Stoltenberg may be a mediocre leader but bear in mind he should have stepped down as NATO Secretary General back in September this year. He is kept going because either the US govt finds him a useful puppet or the NSA has a file on him.

Both.
22. July 2011.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2023 3:29 utc | 154

Regarding the “Full Scale Invasion” meme going around the mediasphere, this may be related to the Western desire to ‘freeze’ the conflict. Remember that in Thinktankia the “Russian Invasion” started in 2014 with the return of Crimea and the LDPR declarations of independence. The failure of the Ukrainian ATO to put an end to LDPR independence was explained by allegations of large numbers of regular Russian forces fighting on the side of the LDPR.
So from 2014 to Feb 2022 you have the “Russian Invasion of Eastern Ukraine”, from Feb 2022 to present the “Full Scale Russian Invasion of Ukraine”, and now perhaps a new phase of frozen conflict (name TBD). Thus defeat can be obscured by pointing to continuity between the phases of the conflict while criticism of “Forever Wars” can be countered by pointing to the discontinuities. A veritable grab bag of nonsense but that’s what Western think tanks are for.

Posted by: S.P. Korolev | Dec 9 2023 3:37 utc | 155

aristodemos | Dec 9 2023 2:30 utc | 149
Belorussians Ukrainians and Galicians. My understanding is that Belorussians are the Rus people/Kievan Rus that came under the rule and influence of Lithuania for several centuries. Ukrainians came under the Rule and influence of Poland for several centuries.
Galicia… under the rule and influence of Poland for a time but then under the rule and influence of Austria. Austria.
Eastern Galicia, which is still in Poland and I think never a part of Kievan Rus had an influx of German immigrants for a period that mostly migrated on to Canada in the decades prior to WWI, so a very strong German influence on the Galicians as well.
I believe Austria also use the Galician Russ against the Russian Empire in the same way the CIA has used the Galicians against first the Soviet Union and now the Russian Federation. Galicians sent into Ukraine to create anti Russia nationalism. Stalin added the last western regions of Kievan Rus to the Belarus and Ukraine, but Ukraine nationalism was there during the communist revolution.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2023 3:43 utc | 156

We’re skimming over an important bit here.
“Ukraine will become a member of NATO subject to reforms after the war”
Which says basically that Russia can never allow the war to end.
Posted by: Promptcritical | Dec 9 2023 1:46 utc | 143
What pile of garbage did you crawl out from under? Wakey wakey, war was declared with the Russia China joint statement. This only ends when the US/Anglo empire is destroyed.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2023 3:50 utc | 157

Thanks, as always, to Unimperator and Down South to keep this Ukraine thread on the good path, among countless mines, traps and ramblings missiles.

Posted by: jean levant | Dec 9 2023 4:27 utc | 158

aristodemos | Dec 9 2023 1:53 utc | 144–
Thanks for your reply. To “mollify the serfs” so expectations for 2024 can be raised when they need to be lowered by said serfs.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 9 2023 4:38 utc | 159

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 9 2023 1:22 utc | 138
I would add a few CIA extremist categories to your list.
1. Latin American RWDS comprador extractive colonial oppressors’ offspring
2. African “warlords” and fundamentalist Islamic cult leaders
3. American/Canadian Nazi ratline beneficiaries

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 9 2023 4:44 utc | 160

the ukrainian counteroffensive has him running scared and he has to legitimise his regime fast
Posted by: fakejames | Dec 9 2023 4:02 utc | 158
LOL. You should look for work with whatever the Zionist Ukronazi version of The Onion is called. You give yourself away with stupidity like that. LOL

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 9 2023 4:45 utc | 161

Modi and Erdogan are cut from the same cloth. They both figure, perhaps correctly, that they can increase their power/leverage by playing both sides.
However, on the other side of the coin, the West or Russia/China/Iran axis will never trust either completely.
Or maybe they are waiting for the propitious moment to go “all in” with one side or the other depending, of course, whom is in the ascendant or whom gives the outliers the better deal?
Your thoughts?
Posted by: canuck | Dec 8 2023 23:43 utc | 121
It’s not a matter of trust, it’s a matter of understanding their interests. Both India and Turkey are deeply entangled with the empire on numerous levels. Even if we make the most charitable calculation of the character and commitment to their respective nation’s welfare, pursuing that interest involves a lot of deception and evasion when confronted with the various mechanisms of power and control that the Hegemon still commands. We can see easily enough that Putin was playing the same game since 2008, gradually becoming stronger and therefore bolder, but always cautious in directly confronting the west. The long arc from Deng Xiaoping to Xi exhibits many of the same traits- faining cooperation and eagerness to join the western club at the expense of the exploitation of their own people for capitalist profit, always appearing weaker and softer in the public eye than the underlying reality showed, and only beginning a serious program of military build up when they had the industrial and technical capacity to do it quickly enough to forestall western reaction.
Erdogan is playing the same game, but with a profound lack of material resources, so his behavior is more erratic. The arc of it is, however, in favor of the Axis of Resistance, as conditions make it possible for him to push in that direction without being immediately toppled. Modi- I don’t know, but he’s in the same position, and whatever is in his secret heart, a clean break with the imperialists would be a very dangerous thing at this point.

Posted by: Honzo | Dec 9 2023 4:53 utc | 162

If USA threatens nuclear war, Russia and China must ramp up their biological weapons capabilities. Americas are isolated. If a biological agent is released in North America and stays there only 7% of world population will perish at most or will be isolated from the rest. If it spreads to South America too it will be only 13% of world population will be affected.
USA can’t retaliate in kind because attacking Russia or China with biological weapons affects more friends than enemies and it will trigger a violent response from the rest of the world.
This is a key strategic advantage against Americas due to its geographical isolation.
Time to invest heavily in biological weapons and their delivery systems. Aggrieved people around the world from US and US proxy violence will be willing carriers.

Posted by: Jason | Dec 9 2023 5:27 utc | 163

Moonie 126
Hindu, Chinese and African Animism is attracted to the energy of the creation instead of the Creator.
Christian Animism is attracted to the energy of the created Humanity, instead of the Creator.
War cannot cancel the beauty of God’s creation, nor the beauty of Human ingenuity, but it is a trial , a testing of our own creation. God gave humans the spiritual knowledge of Himself.
Will we, can we , find that instinctive gift in the extreme stress of war, or sickness, or poverty attack time that nobody can help us ?
We spend so much of our lives trying to please others, and so little of our time doing what our soul wants, which is to recognise our Creator.
Thank you God for the gift of life, for the gift of consciousness and conscience.
When I am in Iraq, we watch Korean soaps about the politics of warring societies. honour, loyalty , love , bravery.
Then there are moments of stillness which represent moments of thankfulness to God.
A Muslim country like Kurdistan which was itself subjected to predatory Turkic invasion, finds solace in Korean medieval war soaps. Why?
Because it reminds us that sometimes war gives the human soul space to thank our Creator , where normal , human-controlled life denies our soul that obligation / right.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 9 2023 5:53 utc | 164

6,7,etc Jmaas
And of course to provide a part of market for US military industrial complex as the NATO spokesperson just said on PBS news (forgot her name).

Posted by: Lavieja | Dec 9 2023 6:04 utc | 165

@8 zorge “The collective West has a lot of financial resources (they can print money endlessly)”
No, not “endlessly”.
That scheme works only for as long as there are markets that need $US to function.
That time is already coming to an end: every week contains news of yet another market where the seller is announcing that they will now accept payment in some other currency.
Once that reaches a tipping point (a couple of years, if that) then the USA can keep on printing money – sure, they can print as much as they want – but that newly-created money will not represent a “financial resource”, it will simply represent “inflation”.
And, more likely, “hyperinflation”

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Dec 9 2023 6:40 utc | 166

I have not been able to find an American reason that would justify, to my mind, that USA should be a party to NATO. Can somebody please tell me what American reason exist for the USA to be in NATO?
Posted by: snake | Dec 8 2023 16:43 utc | 6
Nominally, alliances balance threat or power (depending on which neorealist theory you subscribe to). The aftermath of WWII created a power vacuum in Europe, that either the US or Soviets would have to fill. The US sought to counterbalance Soviet influence, hence the Truman Doctrine was born – NATO came out of that, a multilateral threat/power balancing collective defense mechanism.
After the Soviet Union collapsed and the Warsaw Treaty Organization was disbanded, NATO was seen as “successful”, so American/British elites wanted to keep it as a stabilizer for European security as former Communist states were integrated into the overall architecture on the continent.
A stable and secure Europe meant a strong economy and reliable trade partners (in theory). For this reason, American participation in the NATO project was seen as necessary and vital.
There are plenty of doubts about the efficacy of NATO, and alliances in general. There is a lot of literature about how alliances “tether” power (See: Weitsman, 2004). American power on the continent, and at large, is, in a lot of ways, beholden to Brussels.
The natural (and probably correct) tendency for America is to withdrawal behind its ocean moats and let Europeans deal with European problems. Instead, due to NATO participation, the US is now involved in this proxy war. So no, no “American” reason exists for US participation. The reasons are entirely European.
Short Answer: NATO was formed to keep the Germans down, the Russians out, and the Americans in (Europe).

Posted by: James M. | Dec 9 2023 6:48 utc | 167

“Transcarpathians are not cattle!” In the Kosino health complex (the village of Koson, Transcarpathian region), they are protesting against the actions of military commissars, who staged a raid there to hand out summonses.
The Kosino administration states that on December 7 at 12:30 p.m., “several dozen unknown persons in balaclavas and military uniforms with machine guns burst into the complex.”
“At gunpoint, all visitors, including children, women and the elderly, were driven out into the street from the saunas and treatment rooms. In response to the request of the director of the complex to present his identification and relevant documents, physical force was used against him,” the administration states.
According to her information, this action was organized by the head of the Transcarpathian RTCC Andriy Savchuk and the head of the Uzhgorod RTCC Igor Tishchuk, “who caused bodily harm to the lawyer of the complex.”
The administration reports that at that time, out of the total number of visitors on the territory of the complex, there were no more than 20% of men, and all the rest were old people, children and women, many of whom have children, fathers and husbands fighting in the ranks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
The administration also states that “the other day similar unprecedented actions from the TCC swept through the sanatoriums and sports institutions of the Uzhgorod, Khust, Mukachevo, Svalyavsky and Beregovsky districts.”
“In all cases, boorish, rude and disdainful behavior towards citizens of Ukraine, both men, women and children, is observed,” the statement says.
The administration has already contacted the police, SBU and State Bureau of Investigation regarding abuse of official powers, causing bodily harm and kidnapping by TCC employees.
“Transcarpathians are not cattle! We will not allow such an attitude towards ourselves,” says the statement of the complex, which also calls on the business community of Transcarpathia, in the event of such situations, not to remain silent, but to contact the police, the media and cover what is happening on social networks.

https://t.me/nabludatels/37020

The first revolt of business from the regions to the unlimited mobilization of power.
Now, according to our data, the SBU has begun to “strangle” those who decided to vote for their rights. Having spoken publicly and even under a loud negative message that “Transcarpathians are not cattle.”
If the SBU cannot be intimidated now, then there will be a chain reaction to the lawlessness of power in the case of mobilization.
The bank will use repression as much as possible in order to keep everyone “frightened”, so that everyone is silent and patient.

https://t.me/legitimniy/16861

Posted by: Down South | Dec 9 2023 7:19 utc | 168

fake james at 158 is on fake james planet. the real james doesn’t think that.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 9 2023 7:26 utc | 169

@143 Promptcritical: “Which says basically that Russia can never allow the war to end.”
Nah, not true. It means that Russia can’t allow the Zelensky regime to still be in power when the war ends.
But if it ends with regime change then it doesn’t matter what Stoltenberg or NATO want from Ukraine, the Ukrainians are no longer going to play ball.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Dec 9 2023 7:36 utc | 170

And, more likely, “hyperinflation”
Posted by: Yeah, Right | Dec 9 2023 6:40 utc | 169
that’s my fear, well that and a violent revolution in the US; the power structure needs to be brought down, but i’m coping by hoping for a more or less peaceful transition.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 9 2023 7:41 utc | 171

Posted by: Honzo | Dec 9 2023 4:53 utc | 164
he has the situation next door in Pakistan to remind him of the potential consequences of breaking it off with the US.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 9 2023 7:43 utc | 172

Posted by: James M. | Dec 9 2023 6:48 utc | 170
My take is a bit different. What generated the cold war and NATO started with Russia’s demand for a neutral and demilitarized Germany. When the US refused (and spewed a lot of anti-communist rhetoric), Stalin responded, and this response was the ‘reason’ NATO was formed. Why did the US refuse the common sense demand for a neutral, demilitarized Germany? Because a re-militarized Germany was part of their plans: US and Western capitalist elites were hardline anti-communist and therefore anti-Soviet Union (UK elites were also deeply anti-Russia). They wanted eventually to end the Soviet regime. Though Europe, esp Germany, was flat on its back and no threat to the Soviets, the West did have nukes and Stalin was thinking 15-20 years down the road.
So, to answer snake’s question, _Americans_ have been burdened and never helped by NATO’s existence, but American _elites_ passionately hated communism, and American politicians felt roughly the same but were also very afraid of being considered ‘weak’ on communism. That was enough to get the cold war and NATO up and running.
Did NATO help American elites? Not sure. It satisfied emotional needs but my guess is it likely lowered income for the rich, hurting the US economy except for the military side.

Posted by: fairleft | Dec 9 2023 8:27 utc | 173

I return from a rabbit hole regarding Askold. Claimed to have ‘just been sunk’ by some idiot who relies upon “Yahoo News”. The fact is this small ship was damaged beyond repair in dock over a month ago.
Yahoo News pushes all manor of Empire PR, without thought or question.
Air Force Times
Air Force again dangles $600,000 in bonuses to keep pilots in uniform
Rachel Cohen
Fri, December 8, 2023, 7:21 PM GMT·5 min read
According to the unlimited fiction of PR releases dutifully regurgitated in full by so called Yahoo news, this means that over twelve years a pilot can earn a what a DHL delivery driver earns in a year.
******
The administration of Genocide Joe is unrivalled in its cynical and dishonest manipulation on every single topic.
They never approach a topic and say ‘how can we solve this issue’ , instead it’s ‘how can we spin this to make it look like it’s someone else’s fault and nothing to do with us’.
Of course the fascist, megalomaniac, narcissist Trump is no better. Curse them both.

Posted by: Lev Davidovich | Dec 9 2023 8:28 utc | 174

The big mistake the Ukrainian authorities made at the front was the “movements” of the Ukrainian Armed Forces on the left bank of the Dnieper near Kherson. When, in order to save Avdeevka, it was necessary to transfer reserves to the front, it turned out that the best units were sharpened not so much near Bakhmut as near Kherson.
As a result, desperate attempts to loosen the grip of the Russian Armed Forces around Avdiivka are not bringing results to the Armed Forces of Ukraine. And there the Russian Armed Forces have already advanced along a section of the railway line north of the Avdeevsky coke plant in the northwest of the settlement. In addition, the Russian army had previously advanced south of the waste heap in Avdeevka. Simply put, while Kyiv is belatedly throwing colossal forces into the defense of the city, the Russians are actively tightening their grip around it. Two roads in Avdeevka are also under serious fire from the Russian Armed Forces. You can only drive through them at high speed. Therefore, even trying to get to the front line of defense, the Ukrainian Armed Forces suffer heavy losses.
At the same time, the current situation is dangerous for the Ukrainian Armed Forces because there are no normal fortifications behind Avdiivka. So, after establishing control over the city, Russian troops enter the operational space, as a result of which the entire left-bank Ukraine can be cut into two parts – two huge “cauldrons”.
That is why, although the losses of the Ukrainian Armed Forces are unjustifiably high, both Zaluzhny and Zelensky need to retain Avdiivka at any cost. Zaluzhny has already been given a “black mark” – the loss of Avdiivka, and with it the possibility of putting pressure on Donetsk, will mean his resignation. Zelensky is creating a new symbol of heroism from the city, another “fortress”, however, only for media, not front-line victories.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/20758

Posted by: Down South | Dec 9 2023 10:11 utc | 175

So back to the start of all this in Feb 22 Russia invaded Ukraine to liberate the Donbas republics and keep NATO out of Ukraine.
Fast forward to today Stoltenberg says Ukraine will join NATO once the war is over.
So as long as the war is going Russia has achieved their objective of keeping Ukraine out of NATO … boy they made things simple for Russia didn’t they.
US politicians argue that funding the Ukraine war is allowing the USA to replace outdated weapons at the expense of Ukraine while ‘degrading” the Russian military … did they not consider that if they can replace equipment this way so can Russia and Russia gets the added bonus of giving their officer corp combat experience and a test bed for modern weapons to boot.

Posted by: HB_Norica | Dec 9 2023 10:11 utc | 176

Video in link shows how Ukraine mass mobilises
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/78178

Posted by: Down South | Dec 9 2023 10:19 utc | 177

” Is there not a statute of limitations in history?
Moonie | Dec 8 2023 21:43 utc | 91
Posted by: bevin | Dec 8 2023 22:04 utc | 101 “

We actually agree on this point very strongly. There should be a reasonable cutoff point for all the various grievances various human groups hold against each other. My only wish is that they be applied equitably. Like I said before, there are no innocent groups on this planet.
Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 22:25 utc | 107

@Moonie
Your statement is true more often than not, but I feel obliged to caution against over generalization.
Remember all those wars of conquest & extermination started by the Saami, the San of Namibia, or the (now extinct) Tasmanian natives… to say nothing of the reign of terror the Hopi perpetrated upon the world.

Posted by: retroflecks | Dec 9 2023 10:26 utc | 178

No NATO for Sweden either?

🇹🇷🇸🇪🏁🇮🇱🇵🇸 In Turkey, new conditions for Ankara’s approval of Sweden’s NATO application have been presented by one of Erdogan’s allies, the leader of the Nationalist Movement Party, Bahceli.
According to the politician, those anticipating Sweden’s membership in the alliance should ensure peace between Israel and Palestine, compensation payments by Israel, and “trial of Netanyahu in The Hague.”

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/95025

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2023 10:32 utc | 179

“All this blabbering on my part is simply expressing why the USA will lose this war against Russia, China, Iran and North Korea…
The USA and Europe are extremely weak, the Russians were kept weak but have finally after all of our hoping and waiting are finally going on the attack against the Bush/Clinton/Obama World Order.”
Posted by: Fernando Martinez | Dec 8 2023 22:20 utc | 105
“All this blabbering on my part..” Nonsense your analysis was concise and eloquent. The only change I would make is that “Bush/Clinton/Obama” were but ‘messenger boys’ directed by the City.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 9 2023 11:05 utc | 180

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 9 2023 10:32 utc | 182
Erdogan often uses the state media or other allies to convey his messages. We will revisit the Swedish Nato membership 9 months from now.
Nevertheless, they still made a DCA agreement allowing US to create whatever bases they want in Sweden, even without Nato membership.
The fact that they are making these separate agreements with US is a telling sign that Nato means nothing. Article 5 is delusion for idiots (just read it what it says and how its formulated on voluntary basis, for a good reason). It’s designed to allow the US to resign from whatever new battle front they manage to create with Russia. US troops or assets there are just the “HIT ME” whack-the-mole type of sign which will disappear after achieving its goal. Luckily for everyone, there is a very high threshold for Russia but if/when they succeed you’d better not be there.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 9 2023 11:08 utc | 181

With Hunter Biden now indicted, his dad will be next. IMO, the Ds will use the impeachment process to abandon Biden as its 2024 nominee and go with Newsom.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 17:59 utc | 34
Been saying it for a year that they could throw Biden under the bus to stop Trump. They have to do it this way to make it look fair. The minute they exposed the documents in Biden’s garage. I thought here we go, they can get rid of both with the same crime.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 9 2023 11:16 utc | 182

” I beg to disagree completely. The first problem is monotheism which justify mass killings and racism.
Posted by: Naive | Dec 8 2023 22:06 utc | 103 ”
For instance, How many non-Asians did the Mongols slaughter ? Was that because of racism ? Were Mongols monotheistic ? I can tell by your word choice that you are using a elective application of your logic.
Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 22:29 utc | 109
Moonie you asked the right questions. Naive is incorrect. For example, The Aztecs had many Gods (1) they were not monotheistic. As a matter of fact they were worried about the return of Quetzalxcoatl (they thought Cortez was the God) they sacrificed 80,000 humans in one day in 1521.
When Alexander the Great who strongly believed in the panoply of Greek Gods sacked Thebes in 335 killing 6,000 and enslaving 30,000. Alexander did regret this act and every time a displaced Theban petitioned him while he sat in court he always gave to the Theban whatever they asked.
There are many, may examples, Naive is off base.
1.Prominent in the Aztec pantheon were Huitzilopochtli, god of war; Tonatiuh, god of the sun; Tlaloc, god of rain; and Quetzalcóatl, the Feathered Serpent, who was part deity and part culture hero. Human sacrifice, particularly by offering a victim’s heart to Tonatiuh, was commonly practiced, as was bloodletting.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 9 2023 11:24 utc | 183

Newsom wouldn’t beat Trump. They know it, so they know they have to stop Trump. Throwing Biden under the bus with the exact same crime as Trump is the only way to do it. If required they have set the stage to do exactly that if they want to do it.
Otherwise war monger INC will be fractured and divided beyond repair for generations.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 9 2023 11:27 utc | 184

Posted by Karlof1@2135
Fascinating tidbit regarding that tanker from Nororossisk to the U$$A. Significant, actually, in torpedoing the entire sanctions shtick. Just this evening gas stations in my area were down to $3.07/gallon for regular gasoline. Didn’t pay any attention to diesel. Wondering whether any of this incoming petroleum is being employed to restore the National Strategic Reserve, or whether it’s a ploy to keep the serfs mollified.
Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 9 2023 1:53 utc | 144
You must remember the pricing of oil and NG are seasonal. In the ‘shoulder seasons” spring and fall the prices droop because in the fall it is not yet too cold, and in the spring cause it is not yet hot so the spot prices are lower.
If this winter is colder, oil prices will go up markedly , if it is like last year and we have a mild winter the prices will stay the not get a tick up.

Posted by: canuck | Dec 9 2023 11:32 utc | 185

Posted by: Honzo | Dec 9 2023 4:53 utc | 164
What a well thought out reply. I agree -thanks for the tutorial

Posted by: canuck | Dec 9 2023 11:39 utc | 186

Load of bellicose barking from the mongrel dogs as the multipolar caravan moves along and they failed to rip the Russian camels to pieces. Again.
The only way they’ll raise a fit and trained army of the preferred ‘Color’ is by immigrating the mongrel apartheid entities population.
Trained to highest standard of brutality, fascism and inhumanity. The natzios will be needed back in their largest imperial colony the Americas and Australasia.
And they have trained wonder women and lgbtq++ and child abusers and killers too!
Perfect cover for the soft brainwashed Collective Wasterals – Woke population.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Dec 9 2023 12:10 utc | 187

The western economy is still very strong. The population can still consume and spend without problem.
They can easilly afford this war with Russia.

Posted by: zorge | Dec 9 2023 12:25 utc | 188

@echo chamber
I really dont see the democrats winning, no matter what and who they run. Thats why they try to get Haley to run for the reps. In the end the deep state doesnt care if a Rep or Dem is the main actor of the play. They just need one of them.
Trumps energy isnt purely derived from Trump. Its first and foremost a distaste for the factual powers. Its populism, a (well earned) distrust of the system, a hate for the elites.
Trump managed to capitalize on it. He understood the sentiment. But if they take out trump, the next best version of him will win. This may be RFK jr. or Ramaswamy or whoever comes along.
There are too many candidates out there who understood that.
I am screening the polls very closely. If the dems managed to get Trump of the ball out in a deep blue state like New York, RFK jr. would win the state. All the anger that was build up, doesnt disappear by the elimination of Trump. Argueably the version after Trump will be a lot more extreme than him (He is a loud mouth marketing guy first and foremost.)
The dems are in deep shit. They will not win, even if they take out Trump. They need to take out all the competition to win.

Posted by: Orgel | Dec 9 2023 12:29 utc | 189

NATO is an instrument of US foreign policy. The members of NATO do not treat each other as equals; the interests of the USA dominate.
It was originally founded to create a power bloc to defend US interests in Europe.
Much has changed since 1990; NATO’s original opponent (the USA), the Soviet Union, no longer exists.
NATO has become the extended military arm of the USA and an instrument of its foreign policy.
This is how NATO was finally deployed, even though its members were not threatened or attacked.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations
The article on military assistance means nothing more than spreading the risk of the consequences of US behavior. All NATO members are liable for the foreign policy of the USA. In principle, according to the article, everyone is liable for everyone else in the event of an attack, but only the naive overlook the dominance of the USA in the “alliance”.
Could the USA harm Latvia, for example, if it did not stand by?
YES!
Can Latvia harm the USA if ….?
“Conditionally”!
So everyone is liable for the USA, but the USA is only “bound” by its word.
We are now at a point where the behavior of many US vassals in NATO pelt will have consequences for other countries.
However, NATO was not intended to protect Latvia and co.
The USA does not want to and cannot permanently station millions of US soldiers in Europe and wage war against countries such as Russia or China.
For the USA, Article 5 currently means a “Ukraine” from which it cannot simply withdraw. If Ukraine was not a burden for the USA and maintaining the situation was seen as useful, there would be no discussions about finances etc.
A guarantee would be released that could not be fulfilled if it were demanded.
In the current comparison, the entire EU area, with exceptions (Hungary), appears to be a Ukrainianized area of self-destruction, ruled by traitors as US puppets.

Posted by: 600w | Dec 9 2023 12:44 utc | 190

last hired and first hired
Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 9 2023 1:31 utc | 140
You win the thread.

Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 9 2023 12:55 utc | 191

Hey Y’all!
That piss-ant Kirby isn’t threatening anybody but us Americans with that jibberish.
What he’s really saying is: “ Hey Congress, if you don’t approve Biden’s aid request, I’m gonna send your kids to bleed out in Ukraine. My boss needs his 10%. “
John Gotti had more honor than the Bidens do.

Posted by: OldFart | Dec 9 2023 12:57 utc | 192

According to this, Ukranazistan may be about to abandon Kherson.
https://awfulavalanche.wordpress.com/2023/12/09/ukraine-war-day-654-max-kherson/

Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Dec 9 2023 13:17 utc | 193

Posted by: Orgel | Dec 9 2023 12:29 utc | 192
Well said and I agree. The one party nation state will continue regardless. Geopolitics demands it.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 9 2023 13:20 utc | 194

North American Indigenous People practices of slavery
“Who exactly were these enslaved Native people? In contrast to African slavery, which targeted adult
males, most enslaved Indigenous Americans were women and children. This preference was often
reflected in sale prices: Native women could be worth 50 or 60 percent more than men. Sexual
exploitation and women’s reproductive capabilities were part of the reason for this price premium,
which existed in the Caribbean, Chile, and New Mexico and remained in place from the sixteenth
through the nineteenth centuries. Some sources also point to the convenience of having women
rather than men in the domestic sphere. To explain the higher price fetched by Paiute women, for
instance, American trapper Daniel W. Jones noted in his 1850 book Forty Years Among the Indians
that “the girls have the reputation of making better servants than any others.
Just as masters wanted docile women….”
https://americanindian.si.edu/sites/1/files/pdf/seminars-symposia/the-other-slavery-perspective.pdf

Posted by: canuck | Dec 9 2023 13:42 utc | 195

If mobilization is doing so poorly -with rumors of 10, 20% or worse fulfillment – then I would think they run out of replacements in a matter of weeks. After that, we count down to the last (male) Ukrainian. Demographic exhaustion is the only way to end the war and especially if most Ukrainians go to their deaths with little fuss and with no effective pressure to end Zelensky.
As for Biden and Democrats, they have an ace. Anti-abortion laws are death at the ballot box for Republicans. So much so, that I can see Democrats winning Congress in 2024, regardless of all other factors.

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 9 2023 13:43 utc | 196

One thing only could prevent escalation: the untimely demise of Joe Robinette Biden.
That’ll happen soon so “another” Dem can be nominated for presidential election.
There’s one easily blackmailable and henceforth strongly pro zionist* at hand (according to Gurgle: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. admits he flew on Epstein`s `infamous` jet twice & wife had `relationship` with Maxwell).
*It’s up to everyone in the US to choose coming out as a strong zionist — meaning most people will equate that to having had so many sweet stays at “Lolita Island”.

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Dec 9 2023 13:50 utc | 197

https://x.com/KimDotcom/status/1732433393542119614?s=20

Posted by: Lorraine B. | Dec 9 2023 14:00 utc | 198

Reuters irony:
Unless something changes the dictator Zelenskysky will not permit elections to take place
in 2024 – any elections whatsoever.
Zelensky is outraged that Russia is going to allow democratic elections on territory he claims to dictate.

KYIV, Dec 9 (Reuters) – Ukraine on Saturday strongly condemned Russian plans to hold presidential elections next spring on occupied territory, declaring them “null and void” and pledging to prosecute any observers sent to monitor them.
Russia’s upper house set the country’s presidential election this week for next March, and chairwoman Valentina Matviyenko said residents in four occupied Ukrainian regions would be able to vote for the first time.
Russia claims to have annexed the Donetsk, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhya and Kherson regions in the east and south of Ukraine during referenda last year dismissed by Kyiv and the West as a sham, but does not fully control any of them.
It also seized the Black Sea peninsula of Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 [Especially Deep Bull Shit].
“We call on the international community to resolutely condemn Russia’s intention to hold presidential elections in the occupied Ukrainian territories, and to impose sanctions on those involved in their organization and conduct,” Ukraine’s foreign ministry said in a statement.

Posted by: librul | Dec 9 2023 14:09 utc | 199

It could get very interesting next year. In June 2024
Eventually, those who benefit from the interest rate increases, who typically have a lower marginal propensity to consume (how much they spend out of every extra $ received), run out of things to buy and pocket the bonuses.
And eventually, the spending cuts from the debtors, particularly lower income mortgage holders, begins to dominate.
There are basically 6 major liquidity flow swings in a fiscal year
https://seekingalpha.com/instablog/910351-robert-p-balan/5465685-burden-of-bullish-bearish-meme-unleash-total-power-of-compounding-and-large-numbers-laws
They are called inflection points. The 4th inflection point in mid June 2024 in my opinion is the one to keep an eye on. No recession but markets could plummet. Biden chances to go even further down the drain.
Could happen before that if the oil guys turn oil into $200 a barrel.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 9 2023 14:13 utc | 200

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