Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 08, 2023

Biden Administration Fearmongers Over Article 5 Event

Stoltenberg is a mediocre salesman:

NATO chief says Ukraine will join the military alliance, subject to reforms, after the war - Yahoo / Euronews - Nov 28, 2023

Ukraine will become a member of NATO subject to reforms after the war, the military alliance’s secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, said on Monday.

He was speaking ahead of a meeting of foreign ministers in Brussels, at which the alliance is expected to reaffirm its support for Ukraine’s defence against Russia’s full-scale invasion.

Whatever Stoltenberg might say, it is not going to happen. There is no purpose for Ukraine to be integrated to NATO except for U.S. self-aggrandization. Some assume that NATO membership would protect Ukraine from further attacks by Russia. It would not.

The U.S. itself does not believes that NATO membership protects any country from being attacked by Russia:

‘If you think the price is high now’ – Kirby outlines price U.S. will pay if Ukraine loses war - Yahoo - Dec 7, 2023

“America will not only spend money, but also shed its own blood,” if the U.S. doesn't assist Ukraine in its war against Russia and Russia prevails, said National Security spokesperson John Kirby during a briefing.
...
“If you think the cost of supporting Ukraine is high now just imagine how much higher it's going to be not just in National Treasure but in American blood if he [Putin] starts going after one of our NATO allies… we [will] take our Article 5 commitments very seriously,” said Kirby.
...
“American boots would very much have to be involved if Mr. Putin is allowed to have this strategic victory in Ukraine and then perhaps goes after one of our NATO allies,” Kirby added.

Kirby obviously believes that NATO membership does not protect one from a Russian attack. He fearmongers about U.S. participation in a war under an allegedly binding Article 5 event.

But it is a myth that Article 5 of the Washington Treaty (which founded NATO) will guarantee that others would come to a members defense with their own armies.

Article 5 does not say anything like that. Here is its essence:

The Parties agree ... that .. each of them ... will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith ... such action as it deems necessary ...

"Such action as it deems necessary ..." may include a lot of potential measures (including none) which differ from sending one's army.

Would the U.S. really go to war with another nuclear superpower over some tussle between Estonia (1.4 million inhabitants of which a third are ethnic Russian) and the Russian Federation?

I for one find this very unlikely.

Posted by b on December 8, 2023 at 16:25 UTC | Permalink

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It has to be Wurlitzer related. Every corporate MSM article I've ever read says "full scale invasion" and we all know that's not true.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 8 2023 16:32 utc | 1

NATO is nothing more than a captive market for the US weapons industry.

As long as they keep pushing the idea of the Ukraine joining NATO 'after the war', there will either be no 'after the war' or no Ukraine.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Dec 8 2023 16:33 utc | 2

Ukraine even matters?

Posted by: Stumpy | Dec 8 2023 16:36 utc | 3

This is all so dumb.

Had NATO wanted to intervene, they would have already done it.

They did not.

Now they are only little dogs yapping.

Posted by: Augusto Pi | Dec 8 2023 16:38 utc | 4

⚡️ Russian Defence Ministry report on the progress of the special military operation (December 3-8, 2023)

▫️ In the period of December 3-8, 2023, the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation inflicted 30 group strikes with high-precision weapons and unmanned aerial vehicles on the military airfield infrastructure: arsenals, storage sites for artillery ammunition, military hardware, as well as enemy POL bases. In addition, the locations of the AFU units, nationalist formations, and foreign mercenaries were hit. All the assigned targets have been engaged.

▫️ In Kupyansk direction, units the Zapad Group of Forces have improved the situation along the front line in several sectors and repelled 19 AFU attacks. Aviation, artillery, and heavy flamethrowers hit the manpower and hardware of the 25th Air Assault, 57th Motorised Infantry, 41st, 43rd, and 60th Mechanised Brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine close to Sinkovka, Ivanovka, Berestovoye, Peschanoye (Kharkov region), and Nevskoye (Lugansk People's Republic).

The enemy losses amounted to more than 480 Ukrainian troops, three tanks, 13 armoured fighting vehicles, 12 motor vehicles, and seven field artillery guns.

▫️ In Krasny Liman direction, units of the Tsentr Group of Forces have improved the situation along the front line near Yampolovka (Donetsk People's Republic) and with support of aviation and artillery fire repelled 10 attacks launched by AFU assault groups. In addition, strikes were delivered at cluster of manpower of the 95th Air Assault, 63rd and 66th Mechanised, and 12th Special Forces brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine close to Kirovsk, Torskoye, Yampol, and Serebryanka (Donetsk People's Republic).

The enemy losses were more than 1,445 troops, 11 armoured fighting vehicles, 17 motor vehicles, and five field artillery guns.

▫️ In Donetsk direction, the Yug Group of Forces inflicted fire damage on AFU manpower and hardware near Mariynka, Kurdyumovka, Bogdanovka, Andreyevka, and Kleshcheyevka (Donetsk People's Republic). Over the past week, 18 attacks launched by the Ukrainian Armed Forces have been repelled in this area.

The enemy losses were more than 1,560 troops, 12 armoured fighting vehicles, 17 motor vehicles, and 22 field artillery guns.

▫️ In South Donetsk direction, units of the Vostok Group of Forces, aviation, and artillery inflicted losses on manpower and hardware of the 58th Motorised Infantry, 79th Air Assault, 23rd and 72nd Mechanised, and 102nd territorial defence brigades near Novomikhailovka, Ugledar, Urozhaynoye (Donetsk People's Republic), and Levadnoye (Zaporozhye region).

Over the week, the enemy has suffered losses of more than 845 troops, three tanks, 13 armoured fighting vehicles, 17 motor vehicles, 12 field artillery guns, as well as one Grad MLRS vehicle.

▫️ In Zaporozhye direction, units of the Russian troops carried out intensive defence, during which they repelled five attacks launched by assault groups of the 82nd Air Assault, 117th and 118th Mechanised brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Verbovoye, Nesteryanka, and Uspenovka (Zaporozhye region).

Moreover, the Russian Armed Forces inflicted fire damage on manpower and hardware of AFU's 46th Airmobile, 33rd and 65th Mechanised brigades near Dorozhnyanka, Malaya Tokmachka, and Rabotino (Zaporozhye region). The enemy losses amounted to up to 260 Ukrainian troops, six armoured fighting vehicles, 15 motor vehicles, and five field artillery guns.

◽️ In Kherson direction, the enemy's attempts to cross the Dnepr River to land on the left bank and islands were thwarted by complex fire strikes and preventive actions of the Russian Armed Forces. Moreover, aviation and artillery inflicted losses on manpower and hardware of AFU's 35th and 36th Marines, 124th Territorial Defence brigades near Tyaginka, Tokarevka, Nikolskoye, and Chernobayevka (Kherson region).

As a result of the combat actions, the enemy losses were up to 350 troops, 13 field artillery guns, 17 motor vehicles, and 21 boats.

▫️ Air defence systems shot down five Ukrainian aircraft (three MiG-29, two Su-25) and one Mi-8 helicopter of the Ukrainian Air Force. In addition, 11 HIMARS projectiles, two HARM anti-radiation missiles, two S-200 converted surface-to-surface missiles, one JDAM guided aerial bomb, as well as 224 Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicles were shot down.

▫️ Moreover, 12 Ukrainian servicemen have been taken prisoner during the week.

📊 In total, 550 airplanes and 257 helicopters, 9,577 unmanned aerial vehicles, 442 air defence missile systems, 13,894 tanks and other armoured fighting vehicles, 1,188 combat vehicles equipped with MLRS, 7,279 field artillery guns and mortars, as well as 16,056 units of special military equipment have been destroyed during the special military operation.

🔹 Russian Defence Ministry

Posted by: rumod report | Dec 8 2023 16:40 utc | 5

I have not been able to find an American reason that would justify, to my mind, that USA should be a party to NATO. Can somebody please tell me what American reason exist for the USA to be in NATO?



Posted by: snake | Dec 8 2023 16:43 utc | 6

Posted by: snake | Dec 8 2023 16:43 utc | 6
The US is NATO. It controls it. NATO exists for the benefit of the US rulers.

Posted by: Blue Dotterel | Dec 8 2023 16:50 utc | 7

Don't be to optimistic. This war would last long as The collective West has a lot of financial resources (they can print money endlessly).
Besides, the western population feel no strain due to this war en Russia is afraid to be harsher.
This is enough for terrorist attacks or guerilla war against Russia.

Posted by: zorge | Dec 8 2023 16:54 utc | 8

Thanks b. for the Article 5 focus. I have impression that RF is not taking Article 5 as a deterrent nor it cares about it RF will do what it takes to neuter NATO, whether in or outside Ukraine. It starts with F-16 fielding.
That weapon system will not fly and if it does the originating airfield becomes a legitimate target. No matter if it is in Poland or Romania. That is stated very clearly in RF MoD statement.

Posted by: whirlX | Dec 8 2023 16:55 utc | 9

I posted this in the open Ukraine thread but is more applicable here. b posted this article while I was putting together my comment for the other thread.
........
Prior to 2022 Russia had around 1.2 million combat troops. That has been added to with the three hundred thousand mobilized plus the new army being built for the Finland border. From bits and pieces of information Russia intends a standing army of 1.5 million or so combat forces.

Russia still has huge military reserves not committed to Ukraine and appears to be building strength for the next war/wider war.
From Biden's recent speech, although it could be purely for domestic political purposes, it does seem US intends to kick off its Russian invasion of Europe next year.
My thought is the Brits will most likely run the European war against Russia while US launches its war against China using its proxies and vassals in the region.

Matyanov has a piece up on Russia sharing all military technologies with China that will include things like the Kinzal. My thought is China with its manufacturing might and large highly educated workforce will be able to take production of those technologies to another level.
Putin has announced another term in office which means he will lead Russia through until 2030.
China discarded completely the recent US concept of the President only being able to serve a couple of terms so Xi will likely remain as leader of China through that period.

Russia captured enough documents in Ukraine to clearly see where the US was headed with its bio weapons program. I believe mRNA vaccines, launched in scale in the west with what looks to be a US bio attack on China, and now Moderna, a startup company directly linked to Darpa building new facilities throughout five-eyes...
The last half of 2024 through 2025 may well see the main conflict of Hybrid WWIII. Europe VS Russia and US and vassals vs China.


Victor vicktop55
@vicktop55
Luis Esteban Dominguez: "Russians will always believe in the West. There are many traitors. A real problem".
No, even if the Russians are deceived, the Russians will still return and take theirs. "Russians always come for theirs"©

"Do not expect that once taking advantage of Russia's weakness, you will receive dividends forever. Russian has always come for their money. And when they come - do not rely on an agreement signed by you, you are supposed to justify. They are not worth the paper it is written. Therefore, with the Russian is to play fair, or do not play."
Otto von Bismarck

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 16:56 utc | 10

Kirby: "America will not only spend money, but also shed its own blood"
Admiral Kirby's entire career, probably speaking for himself here, has been as a spokesman only

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 8 2023 17:00 utc | 11

Austin is reported to have said similar words during a closed-door Senate hearing. RT reported this yesterday:

US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin reportedly told members of Congress that unless they approve more funding to Ukraine, Americans will be sent to fight Russia directly, former Fox News host Tucker Carlson said on Thursday.

According to Carlson, Austin spoke at a classified briefing for members of the House of Representatives on Wednesday, and at one point told them that “we’ll send your uncles, cousins and sons to fight Russia” unless Kiev gets the $60 billion in aid requested by the White House.

“The Biden administration is openly threatening Americans over Ukraine,” Carlson said on X (formerly Twitter), summarizing Austin’s message as “Pay the oligarchs or we’ll kill your kids.”

These statements come on the heels of SVR Head Naryshkin's essay predicting Ukraine could become the Outlaw US Empire's second Vietnam. Today, Medvedev weighed in on his Telegram to which RT reports:

Writing on Telegram on Friday, Medvedev, who now serves as deputy chairman of Russia’s Security Council, weighed in on what he called US President Joe Biden’s “primitive blackmail” of Congress. He was referring to the American leader’s recent plea to lawmakers to approve a $111 billion security package, which included funding for Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan.

To convince Republicans – who have been reluctant to support the measure due to a dispute over border security – Biden warned that Russia might not stop at Ukraine and go on to attack NATO countries, leading to a direct clash involving the US. His plea, however, failed to impress the Senate Republicans, who blocked the funding.

Medvedev said the Biden administration’s ploy “is nothing new.” According to the official, many US presidents in the past have said, “Give the money to our guy (fill in the name), or you will have to fight the Russians.”

Informed people who actually study Russia know it has no designs on going further into Europe unless it absolutely must, which at the moment isn't anywhere close to being the case as NATO is already close to being defeated without a direct conflict occurring.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 17:01 utc | 12

SecDef rolls out the domino theory as if all us Vietnam vets are dead or demented.

US is whacko

Posted by: paddy | Dec 8 2023 17:01 utc | 13

NATO 'article 5' - mutual reassurance for members of an obsolete, decaying club.

Here's a question to ponder: With serious (but so far soto-voce) talk of a large, Turkish-sponsored 'humanitarian relief flotilla' gathering to break the Gaze seige, what happens if Israel attacks again as it did back in 2009? Dispite Erdogan's history of angry bluster over Israeli agressions, I doubt he could avoid a military confrontation if Israel did the same this time. Since Israel is not a NATO member and Turkey is, it would be open to him to invoke article 5 against Israel. Now that would be something to behold. Truly a final nail in NATO's cofFin I'd say and I've no doubt it has - and will be - carefully considered.

If he wants to finally earn his spurs with the rest of the Middle-East, Asia, Russia, China, etc., that will be a deliciously ironic way to do it, since pretty well all other NATO members will simply ignore him.

Well, one can but hope.

Posted by: Sabretache | Dec 8 2023 17:05 utc | 14

So, when the US joined WW2, did they protect Britain or simply take over its
empire? Yes, I'm sure The Ghoul takes Article 5 very seriously , Article 5 meaning sinking America's Vampire teeth into Ukraine's neck , along with Sweden and Norway.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 8 2023 17:05 utc | 15

As long as they keep pushing the idea of the Ukraine joining NATO 'after the war', there will either be no 'after the war' or no Ukraine.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Dec 8 2023 16:33 utc | 2

Theoretically it's possible that Ukraine will join Nato. However, it depends on what is the definition of "Ukraine".

One avenue this could occur is that Ukraine simply becomes some self-proclaimed Zelensky/Zaluzhny-in-exile in Poland. Or they could say Lwow is Ukraine. Or Ukraine could just be some media-invented thing, which Nato can use to make attacks on Russia without having to use Nato members.

The "invented Ukraine" would then have claims on the territory of the current central and eastern Ukraine into perpetuity and Nato can use its banner to attack Russia.

In practice, Ukraine is already like a zombie/rag doll animating merely from external forces caused by the US pulling strings.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 8 2023 17:09 utc | 16

"Whatever Stoltenberg might say, it is not going to happen. There is no purpose for Ukraine to be integrated to NATO except for U.S. self-aggrandization. Some assume that NATO membership would protect Ukraine from further attacks by Russia. It would not."

U.S. self-aggrandizement is both necessary and sufficient. The US snaps its fingers and europeans drop to their knees, eager to fellate Master.

Similarly, NATO membership will protect Ukraine, if ant to the extent that the United States decides that it will.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Dec 8 2023 17:11 utc | 17

"Thanks b. for the Article 5 focus. I have impression that RF is not taking Article 5 as a deterrent nor it cares about it RF will do what it takes to neuter NATO, whether in or outside Ukraine. It starts with F-16 fielding.
That weapon system will not fly and if it does the originating airfield becomes a legitimate target. No matter if it is in Poland or Romania. That is stated very clearly in RF MoD statement.

Posted by: whirlX | Dec 8 2023 16:55 utc | 9"

How many Russian red lines has NATO ignored already without consequence?

Posted by: Feral Finster | Dec 8 2023 17:13 utc | 18

"Austin is reported to have said similar words during a closed-door Senate hearing. RT reported this yesterday:

US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin reportedly told members of Congress that unless they approve more funding to Ukraine, Americans will be sent to fight Russia directly, former Fox News host Tucker Carlson said on Thursday.
According to Carlson, Austin spoke at a classified briefing for members of the House of Representatives on Wednesday, and at one point told them that “we’ll send your uncles, cousins and sons to fight Russia” unless Kiev gets the $60 billion in aid requested by the White House.

“The Biden administration is openly threatening Americans over Ukraine,” Carlson said on X (formerly Twitter), summarizing Austin’s message as “Pay the oligarchs or we’ll kill your kids.”

This in turns begs the question why Biden and Austin are so frantic that they are more or less openly extorting Senators?

Posted by: Feral Finster | Dec 8 2023 17:14 utc | 19

Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 16:56 utc | 10--

Putin's answer to a Chinese question at yesterday's Russia Calling event related to technology sharing was very interesting. Here's the entire Q and the first segment of Putin's long A:

Yu Xinyu: Dear Vladimir Vladimirovich,

I'm very glad to see you. My name is Yu Xinyu, Passion Company.

I would like to ask you a question: how do you see the future of technological cooperation between the two countries after all the stream of restrictions, primarily from the United States, against China, which has strengthened the country's desire to be autonomous and self-sufficient?

First of all, I am talking about the transfer of critical technologies. Are there concerns that this will lead to a slowdown in technological progress, since each country will have to go through the entire path of development of each technology entirely? Many will also have to reinvent the wheel. What will be the path of Russia? What areas are you willing to cooperate in and what areas are you not willing to cooperate in?

Vladimir Putin: First of all, it concerns China directly. We are ready to cooperate in all areas. We don't have any restrictions. This also applies to military technologies. When we think about our prospects, about the future world order, and think about the unconditional security of our country,we are moving away from traditional relations in this area: bought – sold. We think about the future, we think about technology. This is the first one.

And if in fact, as for your question. As for technological limitations, whether individual countries will need to start from scratch, with a clean slate, or, as they say, from the center of the field, reinvent the wheel. You understand, I said this in my speech. These restrictions are imposed in order to ensure their absolute dominance, to preserve it at all costs. There were always restrictions. No matter how much they once wanted to close the secret of gunpowder, it still became the property of all mankind, for better or worse. No matter how anyone introduces any restrictions on Kokom's lists later. Yes, they held back the development of the Soviet Union. But all the tasks that he set for himself were solved.

Putin's words during his speech implied that technology sharing as was done in the past with the USSR that never completely died will be resurrected, particularly with Africa but also with others so they don't need to "reinvent the wheel."

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 17:16 utc | 20

Feral Finster | Dec 8 2023 17:14 utc | 19--

It's the age-old bugaboo of the Constitution: Congress holds the purse strings, so the executive must beg or threaten at times. And here we have another hypothesis just published by RT:

"What’s really behind Biden’s threat to send Americans to fight Russia: The US president’s tough talk is laying the ground to blame Republicans for 'losing Ukraine.'"

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 17:22 utc | 21

Putin's own words at the council meeting in Moscow November 28

Putin went further than spearing the emperor. “Our fight”, he declared, “for sovereignty and justice is, without exaggeration, one of national liberation, because we are upholding the security and well-being of our people, and our supreme historical right to be Russia – a strong independent power, a civilization state. It is our country, it is the Russian world that has blocked the way of those who aspired to world domination and exceptionalism, as it has happened many times in history. We are now fighting not just for Russia’s freedom but for the freedom of the whole world.”

“We can frankly say that the dictatorship of one hegemon is becoming decrepit. We see it, and everyone sees it now. It is getting out of control and is simply dangerous for others. This is now clear to the global majority. But again, it is our country that is now at the forefront of building a fairer world order. And I would like to stress this: without a sovereign and strong Russia, no lasting and stable international system is possible.”

This is the first time Putin has identified the doctrine of national liberation in ideological, economic, and in battlefield war against the US doctrine of hegemony and exceptionalism.

https://johnhelmer.net/russias-ideology-is-now-national-liberation-of-the-world-from-the-us-empire-with-an-assist-from-patriarch-kirill/

Posted by: ld | Dec 8 2023 17:22 utc | 22

Stoltenberg is a mediocre salesman:

More importantly:He is a Quisling that should answer for his crimes in a court.

Posted by: Norwegian | Dec 8 2023 17:24 utc | 23

Does the US even need to send troops or just more money/equipment/arms? The Ukes just took out the Russian missile ship Askold.

Posted by: bored | Dec 8 2023 17:29 utc | 24

karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 17:16 utc | 20

Thanks for that quote and your thoughts on the words "reinventing the wheel". There is certainly that aspect, though with Mil technologies, Russia generally has export versions and I believe the Soviet Union had that as well.
But we look at Iran and China Both have their own cutting edge technologies in various areas, China in particular really coming into its own now. In this case, I think we are looking at technology sharing, each of the three giving out and receiving cutting edge technologies.
Each country having the strength of the three sources of technology combined.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 17:36 utc | 25

The Ukes just took out the Russian missile ship Askold.

Posted by: bored | Dec 8 2023 17:29 utc | 24

Two in two years?

At the rate Russia rebuilds these things uncle Sam ain't getting much bang for buck ...

Did they sink the askold tho'?

You know how these ukranazis love to lie ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Dec 8 2023 17:36 utc | 26

I have not been able to find an American reason that would justify, to my mind, that USA should be a party to NATO. Can somebody please tell me what American reason exist for the USA to be in NATO?
Posted by: snake | Dec 8 2023 16:43 utc | 6

I don't have a reason that I support, but the apparent reason is that we are attempting to become or retain being the global hegemon, even though it doesn't seem to serve our interests. By way of background, I think people desire power for its own sake, and that is what we are doing. We could do humanity a favor by dismissing every high ranking neocon in the US government.

Posted by: Jmaas | Dec 8 2023 17:39 utc | 27

by Feral Finster | Dec 8 2023 17:13 utc | 18

If RF reacted every time to NATO's childish provocations, we will be a knee deep in WWIII without any rules of an engagement. RF dictates the tempo from the day one of SMO.
Every red line comes to a retaliation at RF's choosing the time and place. SMO is not under NATO's control.

Posted by: whirlX | Dec 8 2023 17:44 utc | 28

Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 17:36 utc | 25--

The tri-synergies will outproduce the Empire and its vassals in many areas, not just military tech. Think of their combined industrial plant versus that of the West as relates to Geopolitics. Add India. Wall Street has no visionaries as its too busy counting its monies and thus is blind to what's transpiring.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 17:46 utc | 29

Feral Finster

" This in turns begs the question why Biden and Austin are so frantic that they are more or less openly extorting Senators? :

Feral Finster 19

I know The Ghoul is scary, but most USUKIS politicians who are presentable to the public can only understand very simple theses.

We're attacking Russians in order to eventually colonise Russia completely.

We're attacking Palestinians in order to colonise the whole of the Middle East.

Talking too much scares the horses, meaning the Senators. There have to be both vague carrots and vague sticks, not attacks.

Most of the blood and blame is going to land on our proxies, Fill in as appropriate: Al Qaida, Ukrainian Nazis, or Likud . But all of the gains are going to come to us , AT NO FINANCIAL COST.

ThexUS is wholly responsible for both the Russia and the Middle East projects.
Everything else, like Eschatalogical Nazis and 2000 year old texts are tripe

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 8 2023 17:47 utc | 30

karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 17:46 utc | 29

Very much my thoughts apart from India. Hindutva India I belie, needs to be looked at in the same or similar light as Edogan's Turkic world. Though with its hatred of China and muslims may be far worse. Just as Modi India sides with Isreal in Palestine, I believe it will also side with the US in war with China.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 17:54 utc | 31

Feral Finster | Dec 8 2023 17:14 utc | 19--

It's the age-old bugaboo of the Constitution: Congress holds the purse strings, so the executive must beg or threaten at times. And here we have another hypothesis just published by RT:

"What’s really behind Biden’s threat to send Americans to fight Russia: The US president’s tough talk is laying the ground to blame Republicans for 'losing Ukraine.'"

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 17:22 utc | 21

Congress ended Vietnam in much the same way, though it took a while. They are panicing because they should, careers are at stake./sarc

Thank you for all your work.

---

Regarding troops on the ground, I don't believe they have the troops anymore. USAians are not signing up.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 8 2023 17:55 utc | 32

thanks b...

the usa/kirby and the lot are 100% bullshit artists... anyone who believes a word they say, are asking for trouble.. total bullshit..

Posted by: james | Dec 8 2023 17:57 utc | 33

@29 Cont'd--

One of the things I emphasized in my reporting the Russia Calling event was also noted by RT which reported this:

Some 300 foreign companies have left the Russian market under sanctions pressure since the start of the Ukraine conflict in February 2022, according to KSE’s Leave Russia tracker. Like the sanctions themselves, the companies’ departure was intended to weaken the Russian economy.

However, the situation has played into the hands of Russian businessmen, especially due to divestment rules the government introduced earlier this year. Firms exiting Russia are required to sell their assets at a 50% discount, while also needing to obtain government permission for the sale and pay a mandatory fee to the Russian budget.

Russian President Vladimir Putin, who also addressed the VTB forum on Thursday, noted that the exit of Western firms has been lucrative for the Russian economy, with domestic companies simply “taking over everything and moving forward.” He also noted that the number of foreign companies operating in the country has in fact increased after the introduction of sanctions, from 24,100 in March 2022 to 25,600 in November of this year.

It's really rather funny as Neoliberals are doing to themselves what they do to others. Yet more evidence of the utter lack of foresight by those running the Outlaw US Empire. They can't prepare for or fight a war, nor can they do business.

With Hunter Biden now indicted, his dad will be next. IMO, the Ds will use the impeachment process to abandon Biden as its 2024 nominee and go with Newsom.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 17:59 utc | 34

Prediction!

Ukraine's army capitulates before Christmas and Z gets captured trying to escape. Z surrenders to Russia to stay alive though imprisoned for life. US will freeze Z's properties and money and his wife will be turning tricks in Germany.

Biden loses by a landslide and declares martial law to prevent Trump from taking office. Riots in the streets across America.

Posted by: Peace | Dec 8 2023 18:06 utc | 35

Posted by karlof1 @1701

Should it be that Austin is not merely blowing smoke about conscription being revamped and beating on the war-drums; it would be wise to bear in mind that a major crackdown on all dissent; as was promulgated by the heavily blackmailed Thomas Woodrow Wilson, who campaigned for re-election in 1916 with the slogan "He Kept Us Out of the War", who within two weeks of his second Inauguration addressed a joint session in the Capitol demanding and receiving a near unanimous declaration of war against the Central Powers.

Wilson's became a terrorist regime with immense crackdowns on German-American and other ethnic European citizens and even induced the courts to lock up the Socialist Party leader, Eugene V. Debs in a federal prison. So my expectation is that the Feds and their owners in Wall $treet and City of London, would take every possible measure they could get by with to place our ruptured republic under some reformulation of martial law and lockdown any expression of the First Amendment.

With an election looming in eleven months and an accelerating economic collapse visible on the near horizon; such measures might not be taken as the population becomes increasingly restive and disgusted with the Di$trict of Corruption and all its works and all its ways.

Interesting times.

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 8 2023 18:09 utc | 36

"full scale invasion" and we all know that's not true.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 8 2023 16:32 utc | 1

"full Scale" must be the new "unprovoked"

Posted by: dh | Dec 8 2023 18:10 utc | 37

thanks b...

the usa/kirby and the lot are 100% bullshit artists... anyone who believes a word they say, are asking for trouble.. total bullshit..

Posted by: james | Dec 8 2023 17:57 utc | 33

Yep, all bullshit, all the time. What does a man do when he realizes all of his life is built on bullshit?

Keep shovelling.

For the man in the paddock, whose duty it is to sweep up manure, the supreme terror is the possibility of a world without horses.

-- Henry Miller in Tropic of Cancer"


Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 8 2023 18:12 utc | 38

b

Whatever Stoltenberg might say, it is not going to happen

Medvedev has made it clear on several occasions that after the war there will be no more The Ukraine.

Posted by: Down South | Dec 8 2023 18:17 utc | 39

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ Front #Summary for 8 Dec 2023 by 18:22⚡️

🔹In #Kherson Direction, there is still no change. Heavy fights are ongoing. The AFU are continuing their attempts to extend their control over the forest belt across the road from #Krynki. Fighting continues in #Krynki itself, the AFU grouping is shrinking but not running out. In the area of #Kinburn Spit there is an increase in AFU shelling.

🔹In #Zaporozhye Direction, it is snowing. Therefore, the artillery is working without drone correction. The AFU attacks continue. North of #Verbovoye, our army is improving positions, as well as near #Novofyodorovka.

🔹In #SouthDonetsk Direction, with the support of artillery, our forces suddenly attacked from the direction of #Novodonetskoye towards Zolotaya Niva, but the enemy was able to hold their positions.
▪️In #Maryinka, also without changes. The AFU is not giving up their last positions, fierce counter fighting continues. But all the attempts of the enemy to counterattack remain without success.

🔹In #Donetsk Direction, on the northern #Avdeyevka flank, our army has significantly advanced on both sides of the railway line towards #Ocheretino. Our units are also moving towards #Novokalinovo on a broad front, and the AFU's attempts to move into the rear are being repulsed. There is heavy fighting in #Stepovoye itself, plus our forces are trying to advance south of the village. The AFU are fighting very fiercely in this area. The territory of the Coke Plant is still under the attack of Russian aviation and heavy artillery. On the ground ours are trying to strengthen their positions on the outskirts. On the southern flank, ours have taken the quarry behind the village of #Vinogradniki. But near #Severnoye and #Tonenkoye there are fierce battles, with no success for either side.

🔹In #Bakhmut Direction, our forces retain the initiative in #Kleshcheyevka. There are shooting battles at the heights. On the northern flank, our units advanced from the side of the #Berkhovskoye Reservoir. A key stronghold was taken in the Valyanovsky Nursery. We also managed to enter the territory of #Bogdanovka from the northeast. The village itself is located in the lowland and consists of one street. Next, the outskirts of Chasov Yar begin. In the north of the #Soledar sector, our army continues its attacks on the borders of #Razdolovka - #Vesyoloye - #Belogorovka, with progress.

🔹In #Svatovo Direction, the AFU counterattacks at #Torskoye and in the #Serebryanskoye forest were confidently repelled by ours. Powerful battles are continuing at the #Sinkovka - #Petropavlovsk defence line, half of #Sinkovka is behind us. There is a struggle for further advancement.


https://t.me/sitreports/19145

Posted by: Down South | Dec 8 2023 18:18 utc | 40

I find it more dubious NATO countries will accept a partitioned and failed Ukraine into an alliance when they were skeptical when it was stable (relatively speaking stable).

Posted by: WG | Dec 8 2023 18:18 utc | 41

Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 17:54 utc | 31--

Putin put forth a different assessment about Modi that was published by RT:

Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi cannot be forced into acting against the national interests of India, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Thursday, complimenting his counterpart for standing up for his people despite pressure from global superpowers.

“I can’t imagine that Modi can be intimidated, threatened or forced in favor of taking any action or decision against the national interest of India, Indian people. And there is such pressure, I know,” Putin said.

He clarified that this is not something he had ever discussed with Modi, but something he had observed by looking at India’s actions at the global stage. “Sometimes, to be honest, I am even surprised by [Modi’s] tough stance on the protection of the national interests of the Indian people,” Putin added.

Lots of differing assessments about Modi. Radhika Desai called him a fascist during the most recent Geopolitical Economy Hour. I respect Russia's deep history of relations with India to have a more nuanced understanding of its internal dynamics and how they relate to its foreign policies. India, like all Global South developing nations requires peace.

While perhaps not doing so as rapidly as China, India announced its lifted 135 Million of its people out of poverty over the past five years, improving from "around 15% of the Indian population was [now] living in poverty, compared to 24.8% in 2015-16," RT reported. With a population of 1.5 Billion, 15% is 225,000,000, which is a considerable number of people. IMO, India's Caste System will need to die for those millions to be raised out of poverty.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 18:20 utc | 42

aristodemos | Dec 8 2023 18:09 utc | 36--

Thanks for your reply. It's hard to say how much, but there's a lot of pushback going on. IMO, the key is who can take the torch from Trump on the R side. History proves he can be a candidate from prison/jail as Debs was in 1920. And there's the unknown effect RFKjr's effort that's likely to take more votes from the Ds than from the Rs. It's very possible the next POTUS will only gain one-third of the popular vote, with the great possibility of the election being thrown into the R-controlled House. We have 11 months to go.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 18:33 utc | 43

US can still print money and pay Poles to fight the war.

Posted by: zorge | Dec 8 2023 18:35 utc | 44

Peace 35

What did Prigozhin die of? Shoddily maintained private planes, combined with having lived enough life to have lived 20 normal lives and not care too much about anything. Double-dealing might be exciting, but exhausting.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 8 2023 18:42 utc | 45

No matter how anyone introduces any restrictions on Kokom's lists later.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 17:16 utc | 20

Machine translation strikes again. The correct spelling is CoCom forCoordinating Committee for Multilateral Export Controls.

Posted by: averros | Dec 8 2023 18:43 utc | 46

B, I think this opinion is desperately naive.


You are correct that it would make no sense whatsoever, but when has that stopped the oligarchs who ran the West in the past??


Did it make any sense for the UK fools and the French fools to give Poland an ironclad guarantee of defense at the last second, when Germany only wanted a simple corridor to Danzig?? When the UK conceded that the Danzig situation was ridiculous in the first place after the treaty ending WWI? Thus, emboldening the Poles to act like idiots and inflame the Germans.


Of course not. But they were all desperate for war, including Roosevelt, who pushed the entire world into WWII FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

"Making sense" has long been out the window with our satanic elite. And Americans are either too brainwashed, lazy or ignorant to figure out that they likely are getting duped into another idiotic war for no reason.

I hope Putin treads very lightly as he has been doing. Do what he must, but avoid any direct confrontation with an NATO country if at all possible no matter what cost. Because the nightmare that will come after will be 1000 times more terrible.

Posted by: Johnny | Dec 8 2023 18:45 utc | 47

Ukraine Weekly Update: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-aee

Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Dec 8 2023 18:46 utc | 48

karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 18:20 utc | 42

Modi is a wiley player. I watched him closely with the Galwin valley incident and also watched the Indian media. Modi waited two weeks to see if US would open another front against China, in which case India would have launched a border war with China. With India's increasing collaboration with the US, it is quite possible the US can bypass Modi, creating events to carry popular opinion - as in creating border events through the border military.
Antonym the resident hindutva troll here reflects what I was seeing in Indian media at the time.

Also Russian trust can be seen in who they share leading edge mil tech. India is not in that very small club. Leading edge is now in hypersonics and electrical engineering, though a few months back, russia announced most R&D we be towards directed energy.

With India, there is both the Wiley Modi looking to the multipolar world, and bulk of Indian media at least locked into the hindutva hatred of China and Muslims.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 18:52 utc | 49

"full Scale" must be the new "unprovoked"

Posted by: dh | Dec 8 2023 18:10 utc | 37

In fact it's usually both. "Full Scale Unprovoked Invasion!"

I think a lot of people miss this, though. Not the language itself but the exact repetitive verbatim usage. It never varies. Like it was handed down from on high or passed to the Editors in- or Bureau Chiefs from the CIA's embedded minions, which all of us know exist.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 8 2023 18:58 utc | 50

Article 5 is a great litmus test for years now, used to weed out propagandists and fake "experts". Same as media source talking about "Putin's" Russia/army/anything etc.

They are all snake oil salesman or ignoramuses.

Posted by: Abe | Dec 8 2023 18:58 utc | 51

karlof1 43

Palestine genocide and Trump together would be double-egging the cake.
Talking of which, prison food might contain oestrogen to calm his fanny grabbing desires. Not everybody who comes out of prison is the same man again.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 8 2023 18:58 utc | 52

In fact it's usually both. "Full Scale Unprovoked Invasion!"

I think a lot of people miss this, though. Not the language itself but the exact repetitive verbatim usage. It never varies. Like it was handed down from on high or passed to the Editors in- or Bureau Chiefs from the CIA's embedded minions, which all of us know exist.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 8 2023 18:58 utc | 50

They speak in cliches, and only the approved cliches. And you can watch which cliches change in real time, it is like flicking a switch.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 8 2023 19:01 utc | 53

Or progesterone, whatever they use for chemical castration.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 8 2023 19:03 utc | 54

"How many Russian red lines has NATO ignored already without consequence?"

How many consequences have been talked about?

An helpful hint, on the night of March 9th 2023 Six Kinzhal missiles were launched at Ukraine, following drone attacks on Moscow, entombing the night shift at the Lvov Command and Control Center with Nato Advisors being sealed up along with the Ukrainians.

Thomas

Posted by: Thomas | Dec 8 2023 19:05 utc | 55

@karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 17:01 utc | 12
re: Loser Austin unless they approve more funding to Ukraine, Americans will be sent to fight Russia directly

But Biden has said otherwise:

If Putin attacks a NATO Ally [member] — if he keeps going and then he attacks a NATO Ally — well, we’ve committed as a NATO member that we’d defend every inch of NATO territory. Then we’ll have something that we don’t seek and that we don’t have today: American troops fighting Russian troops — American troops fighting Russian troops if he moves into other parts of NATO. . . .here

Chain of command: President, SecDef, Combatant Commanders

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 8 2023 19:09 utc | 56

if article 5 was taken seriously Germany would be launching "terrorist" attacks against US bases in Germany for Nordstream.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Dec 8 2023 19:09 utc | 57

" With India, there is both the Wiley Modi looking to the multipolar world, and bulk of Indian media at least locked into the hindutva hatred of China and Muslims.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 18:52 utc | 49 "


Some of the anger is justified though, as Muslims were just as violent and destructive to North India as the Christians were to South America.

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 19:12 utc | 58

I don't have a reason that I support, but the apparent reason is that we are attempting to become or retain being the global hegemon, even though it doesn't seem to serve our interests.

Posted by: Jmaas | Dec 8 2023 17:39 utc | 27

Your confusion is a consequence of using the wrong pronouns. You start off well enough with 'I' and 'I,' but then you start throwing 'we' around as if you are one of the architects of US global hegemony, or that the people who are have any shared interests with you. There is no 'we' here. Once you grasp that, the mysteries begin to evaporate like snowflakes on a hot shovel.

Posted by: Honzo | Dec 8 2023 19:15 utc | 59

“Give the money to our guy (fill in the name), or you will have to fight the Russians.”

The problem with this is simple -- the takeover of the military by the Biden regime included getting rid of, or at least dissuading, Americans from joining the military. Instead, they "browned" the military with Central Americans who were promised citizenship in exchange for service.

My father lives in a military town. Surrounding his house are retired military men and women. Next door to his house is a young woman, age 30, with two children. She was from Haiti and joined to get citizenship. After a year, she got pregnant and after two years, she got pregnant again. Somehow, she also convinced someone that she was disabled during active duty, so she "retired" after just two years. Since she is 100 percent disabled, she gets a monthly stipend of about 4000/mo USD. She also gets almost free medical care and a free college education. Of course, she's a citizen.

She's fine, by the way. Yesterday she helped me carry a 40-pound bag of dog food into my father's house.

Biden can threaten killing our children all he wants, but we know that the military isn't American anymore. He'll be sending Mexicans to their slaughter, not Americans, sorta like what he did with the Ukrainians.


Posted by: K-2 | Dec 8 2023 19:22 utc | 60

Moonie, the British in India were as disgusted by Hinduism as they were scared of Islam. Still, its no good following your feelings, when there's dividing and ruling to be done.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 8 2023 19:22 utc | 61

Meanwhile Washington is standing by Kiev--from the Pentagonal Puzzle Palace
The partnerships forged among allies and partners have paved the path toward bolstering Ukraine's defense industrial base for the long term, the Pentagon's top acquisition official said this week. . . .William A. LaPlante, undersecretary of defense for acquisition and sustainment, met with industry and government officials from the U.S., Ukraine and other allies during the two-day Ukraine Defense Industrial Base Conference co-hosted by the White House, and the departments of Commerce and Defense in Washington. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 8 2023 19:24 utc | 62

Moonie | Dec 8 2023 19:12 utc | 58

Bullshit.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 19:26 utc | 63

In fact it's usually both. "Full Scale Unprovoked Invasion!"

I think a lot of people miss this, though. Not the language itself but the exact repetitive verbatim usage. It never varies. Like it was handed down from on high or passed to the Editors in- or Bureau Chiefs from the CIA's embedded minions, which all of us know exist.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 8 2023 18:58 utc | 50

Right. And they usually manage to work "brutal" in there somehow.

Posted by: dh | Dec 8 2023 19:29 utc | 64

Dear friends who're just reading here some of new meanings + new facts,
But pls. keep here the actual facts as have zo be done further on, but keep close at the latest UKR/RF war effects news.
The "war effects" newly published by MSM (either by CNN etc. or by China cgtn.como or RT of today speaks a very non-realistic evaluation of zhe current UKR-war issues (esp.US contra RF).
Russia has 2 years now of having planned its new strategy against "The West" (together with joined IRAN, Saudis/UAF, Pakistan, India, N-Korea, S-Africa, etc., etc.).

US-Democrats (Nuland, Blinken, Pompeio ..) just have had a flush by US-Senate directly into their faces.
No more TRILLONS for Ukrania or Israel.
Wait, Boing + MIL-partners will follow due to the missing orders.
Soros/Gates like "Think tanks" and its "Companies" will get the most of the rest of UKR.
Or not, if RF Army may have destroyed all that Western UKR bases for a "while" ..


Posted by: dpare_truth2 | Dec 8 2023 19:33 utc | 65

Modi is certainly a fascist. About that there is no doubt. But that does not mean-cf Franco or Salazar- that he is incapable of protecting the national interest provided that in doing so he does not compromise the interests of his sponsors or lose credibility as a persecutor of muslims and the Cow's best friend.

Giyane:
The US did not take over the British empire, they did something much worse which was to insist that, before it lost the capacity to do so, it pay of its 'debt' to US financiers. Which involved the UK having on the one hand to keep a lid on living standards and, secondly, to turbo-exploit places like Malaya with its rubber, tin and many other resources, and Africa's colonies for theirs. Ghana's cocoa, Tanganyika's (projected) ground nut bonanza, Kenya's exports etc all contributed to paying off the 'debt' Britain incurred for the premature anti fascism of going to war in 1939.

The screws were put on throughout the shrinking empire and all over the burgeoning commonwealth- and greatly to Washington's delight, doing so enormously changed the ability of the Labour Party to do very much more than the minimum inthe way of reform. Which led, in turn to the reinstallation of the US puppets in the Tory party. And the consolidation- in the teeth of its supporters- of the cryptio fascist Labour right.

But then you live in Birmingham so you know all about that. Maybe you even remember when they introduced Bread Rationing, and kids didn't know what a banana was and eighteen year olds were drafted to keep the lid on Aden and Nigeria and Malaya and Korea and, of course, Palestine where my Dad spent the first three years of my childhood., 'fighting terrorism' they called it.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 8 2023 19:42 utc | 66

When I was in the Army when we wore 'fatigues' the shirt was tucked into trousers. . .nowadays the 'cammy' shirt just hangs free. . . Why is that?

news: More than two-thirds of active duty service members are within the overweight or obese ranges of the body mass index

The must-pass National Defense Authorization Act, or NDAA, which sets funding and policy priorities for the Pentagon, directs the service to increase the baseline standards in the Army Combat Fitness Test, or ACFT, for ground troops including infantry, cavalry scouts and Special Forces within 18 months of the bill being signed into law by the president.. . .here

There's a growing number of females in the combat arms . . . men and women will likely be scored on different standards as they are now, something that has caught the ire of some Republicans on Capitol Hill in recent years. There is nothing preventing the Army from doing so, though. . .here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 8 2023 19:42 utc | 67

Kirby: . . . we’re out of Schlitz when it comes to helping Ukraine with this kind of security assistance that we’ve been able to provide. . .It’s just that there are a small number of Republicans that want to hold that aid hostage for some pretty extreme border policies that the President is not willing to talk about. ..here

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 8 2023 19:55 utc | 68


Posted by: Feral Finster | Dec 8 2023 17:14 utc | 19

.. This in turns begs the question why Biden and Austin are so frantic that they are more or less openly extorting Senators? ..

This, and your reported MSM "facts" by T. Carlson (URL evidence), is a sign of some desperate US like behaviours.
Either Russian Armed Forces will "win' up to 12/2023" or not, Rusia has won new very strong partners since today.

@Nuland/Gates/Soros:
Pls. think of what is going on when have left "All" the Ukranian territories? Ever thought about?

Posted by: spare_truth2 | Dec 8 2023 19:58 utc | 69

Quoted by karlof1 @34: "Some 300 foreign companies have left the Russian market under sanctions pressure since the start of the Ukraine conflict in February 2022... However, the situation has played into the hands of Russian businessmen..."

Ha! Tell me again how important are those logos that America prides itself on? US based multinationals walk out of the Russian market, taking their logos with them, only to have Russians make and sell essentially the same product with a new logo... and sales go up!

I'm lovin' it!

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 8 2023 20:07 utc | 70

Jens Stoltenberg may be a mediocre leader but bear in mind he should have stepped down as NATO Secretary General back in September this year. He is kept going because either the US govt finds him a useful puppet or the NSA has a file on him.

One wonders who would have replaced Stoltenberg had he been allowed to retire and become a fourth-rate taxi driver back home in Oslo. In spite of likely contenders (Boris Johnson, Ben Wallace: both execrable in their own ways), the US clearly couldn't find anyone who is even more pliable as a hand puppet.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Dec 8 2023 20:08 utc | 71

“Give the money to our guy (fill in the name), or you will have to fight the Russians.”

The problem with this is simple -- the takeover of the military by the Biden regime included getting rid of, or at least dissuading, Americans from joining the military. Instead, they "browned" the military with Central Americans who were promised citizenship in exchange for service.

My father lives in a military town. Surrounding his house are retired military men and women. Next door to his house is a young woman, age 30, with two children. She was from Haiti and joined to get citizenship. After a year, she got pregnant and after two years, she got pregnant again. Somehow, she also convinced someone that she was disabled during active duty, so she "retired" after just two years. Since she is 100 percent disabled, she gets a monthly stipend of about 4000/mo USD. She also gets almost free medical care and a free college education. Of course, she's a citizen.

She's fine, by the way. Yesterday she helped me carry a 40-pound bag of dog food into my father's house.

Biden can threaten killing our children all he wants, but we know that the military isn't American anymore. He'll be sending Mexicans to their slaughter, not Americans, sorta like what he did with the Ukrainians.


Posted by: K-2 | Dec 8 2023 19:22 utc | 60

What a pack of dumbcunts you, K-2, and other 'muricans are - Mexico, Haiti etc, like the US are part of America.

Posted by: Ново з | Dec 8 2023 20:13 utc | 72

Kirby: "America will not only spend money, but also shed its own blood"

Big assumption there. As a volunteer army with extreme difficulty recruiting, it's impossible for them to effectively counter Russia in Europe. They could try a draft, but one can only anticipate the disastrous outcome of that.

US imperialism is fucked. The longer they refuse to accept that, the worse it will get. Only a radical reset of their perspective and the elimination of the entire foreign policy establishment, could right the ship and buy the RC a few more years of stability. These rabid dogs are absolutely incapable of doing this.

I'd rather sit in jail than fight for these criminals against the good people of Russia. I doubt I'm the only one that feels this way.

Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Dec 8 2023 20:21 utc | 73

@ Bemildred | Dec 8 2023 18:12 utc | 38

this is a great quote from an author i haven't read enough of.. thanks bemildred!! the quote below -

"For the man in the paddock, whose duty it is to sweep up manure, the supreme terror is the possibility of a world without horses.

-- Henry Miller in Tropic of Cancer" - "

Posted by: james | Dec 8 2023 20:22 utc | 74

It seems to me that the repubs are giving Biden an excuse to reneg on the unlimited, never-ending support.

Meanwhile the Ukrainians (well Zaluzny) are making it very difficult to continue support.

The part about NATO is just brave talk related to: Dont yield on any points in advance of negotiations.

However, it also seems to me that the west has made negotiations impossible and they are suggesting that Russia negotiate with sock-puppet.

I would think it was some kind of trick, but starting to think they really are not that bright.

West must be really fuming about the royal treatment Putin was given by UAE and KSA - Putin looked to be truly pleased.

Posted by: jared | Dec 8 2023 20:23 utc | 75

Posted by: aristodemos | Dec 8 2023 18:09 utc | 36

Certainly seems to be heading in that direction, and Wilson's legacy lives on in the Espionage Act, still being used as a weapon against dissent. So far the suppression is mostly done through bullying media companies into censoring unacceptable opinions or facts and promoting the government's narratives. And it's been the case for awhile that if you point out inconvenient facts about Ukraine you are branded a Putin sympathizer. It's getting worse with the genocide in Gaza, and anyone pointing that out is an anti-semite. They are tiptoeing right at the edge. Boots on Ukrainian or nearby ground and conscription and we'll see if the younguns take to the streets chanting 'Hell no, we won't go' and what the gov's response will be. I thought this shit was over and done with in the 70's but we're back to it again, this time with govment having many more tools for control at its disposal.

Posted by: Mike R | Dec 8 2023 20:23 utc | 76

" Moonie, the British in India were as disgusted by Hinduism as they were scared of Islam. Still, its no good following your feelings, when there's dividing and ruling to be done.

Posted by: Giyane | Dec 8 2023 19:22 utc | 61 "


That might be true but it doesn't diminish what Moslems did to North India. Its not something that can justified and explained away just because Islam was the perpetrator. Most people have no problem blaming Christianity for its acts yet Islam and other non-Western groups are free from blame ?

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 20:30 utc | 77

Posted by: Don Bacon | Dec 8 2023 19:42 utc | 67

.. There's a growing number of females in the combat arms .. men and women will likely be scored on different standards as they are now, something that has caught the ire of some Republicans on Capitol Hill in recent years. There is nothing preventing new "Gender" regulations.
An UKRANIAN woman can serve on a future Drone-Attack 'Uranian control center at front', or she can sct as an Infanterist "guy" in trenches, bur she won't "produce" any babies anymore after having sampled a bullet in stomach.
The rule on war is equal to men + women.
Population of Ukrania is unpredictable - just now - even not by US-B.Gates Think Tanks ..
Trans-Human experiments with a brain-chip could hopefully start now figthing against the Russian Army (eg. by Mr. E.Musk).
Let's wait 2 years ..

Posted by: spare_truth2 | Dec 8 2023 20:44 utc | 78

" Bullshit.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 19:26 utc | 63 "


I await your fact based rebuttal.

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 20:45 utc | 79

@6 snake: "I have not been able to find an American reason that would justify, to my mind, that USA should be a party to NATO. Can somebody please tell me what American reason exist for the USA to be in NATO?"

Well, the USA isn't able to join the EU, so they can't directly control the European continent that way.

So they control NATO instead, and NATO has morped into more than "just" a military alliance.

Simple as that, really.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Dec 8 2023 20:51 utc | 80

Wall Street Journal just reported Ukraine will be able to launch their next counter-offensive in 2025.
So NAFO can take a small vacation next year.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 8 2023 21:03 utc | 81

Thanks for the several replies. By now, most will know Putin has agreed to become Russia's president again. I have an article that reviews how that transpired, "Russian Heros: We Need You as President Putin: I Will Run Again".

William Gruff | Dec 8 2023 20:07 utc | 70--

Yes, it's quite interesting to watch. Did you read my report on Russian Branding which I saw as an example of Russia becoming a more consumer society I included within this, "Russia Vs. Wokism: Declares 2024 Year of Family"?

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 21:03 utc | 82

https://www.rt.com/news/588738-us-biden-republicans-losing-ukraine/

Nothing to add to that opinion. Except: Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.

Adpated here: Better to not go to war against Russia and be thought still a the most powerful army than to attack Russia and to remove all doubt about who is the strongest.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 8 2023 21:08 utc | 83

By the way, the yankees and the Europeans speak too much.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 8 2023 21:09 utc | 84

Moonie | Dec 8 2023 20:30 utc | 77

Before you tell us to what it is that "Islam" did I assume that you will tell us when it was that wha you will allege happened?
The truth is that, leaving aside the atrocities you hint at, for the great majority of the Indian people Islam offered an enviable alternative to the neo-racism of the caste system.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 8 2023 21:13 utc | 85

https://www.rt.com/news/588759-germans-disapprove-government-scholz-crisis/

Wondering if Putin will get this % (or close to it) at the first round of the presidential election...

And of course Germany is a "democracy" while Russia is a "dictatorship". Or when the words are lossing their meaning. Kind of newspeak.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 8 2023 21:17 utc | 86

That might be true but it doesn't diminish what Moslems did to North India.

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 20:30 utc | 77

Are you referring to activities pre- or post-CIA involvement in North India?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 8 2023 21:20 utc | 87

karlof1 @82

Yes, I did read that. Thank you for filling in the info void the corporate mass media leaves in its wake.

Posted by: William Gruff | Dec 8 2023 21:21 utc | 88

China discarded completely the recent US concept of the President only being able to serve a couple of terms so Xi will likely remain as leader of China through that period.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 8 2023 16:56 utc | 10

As I understand it, the office of the President in China is used ceremoniously for relations with other countries.

The real power positions are general secretary of the CCP and chairman of the Central Military Commission, for which there were never term limits. Xi holds both since 2012, and hence he is the paramount leader. He became president on 2013.

Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Dec 8 2023 21:23 utc | 89

William Gruff | Dec 8 2023 21:21 utc | 88--

Great! Thanks for reading and for your reply. Here's a news nugget from Escobar's Telegram:

"According to the Black Sea Institute for Strategic Studies monitoring group, on November 8, a German tanker flying the flag of Liberia left the Black Sea port of Novorossiysk and arrived at its destination on the east coast of the United States on December 6.

"The ship brought 50 thousand tons of petroleum products."

How many other such shipments have occurred without similar notice. IMO, hundreds.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 21:35 utc | 90

" The truth is that, leaving aside the atrocities you hint at, for the great majority of the Indian people Islam offered an enviable alternative to the neo-racism of the caste system.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 8 2023 21:13 utc | 85 "


Come on Bevin, thats a silly comment, as you can replace Islam with Western Civilization and apply that logic to Africans, Aztecs and whatever " less developed " cultures the West conquered. Whether, we like it or not, forced Christianity also did wonders in subduing certain, less desirable impulses in the conquered cultures. Not to mention, that its not the conquerors right to determine whether or not the conquered " need improvement " . Thats the logic of subjugation.

As for your other point, you called BS on what I was saying, implying, that you already know its wrong. Therefore, its incumbent on you to state why. You can start by telling us how many Hindu temples, and other structures, were destroyed by the Muslims. Also, how many people were killed by their invasion.

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 21:43 utc | 91

" Are you referring to activities pre- or post-CIA involvement in North India?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 8 2023 21:20 utc | 87 "

No, I'm talking about:

" 900 – 1707: Muslim Conquest
Islam came to India in the 10th century when the Ghaznavids, a Turkic tribe, annexed the area now known as Punjab. By 1200, Muslim warlords had conquered much of northern India, and by 1206 had founded the Delhi Sultanate with its capital at Delhi."

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 21:45 utc | 92

"It's the age-old bugaboo of the Constitution: Congress holds the purse strings, so the executive must beg or threaten at times. And here we have another hypothesis just published by RT:

"What’s really behind Biden’s threat to send Americans to fight Russia: The US president’s tough talk is laying the ground to blame Republicans for 'losing Ukraine.'"

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 8 2023 17:22 utc | 21"

Which is probably why Team R will eventually cave and give the Administration *something*, in hopes that the collapse happens on Biden's watch.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Dec 8 2023 21:46 utc | 93

karlov1 are you suggesting that the UsA is buying cheap Russian oil and gas products and selling it to the EU and that some how Libya and Germany are violating USA sanctions? I don't quite get what it is that seems so important? thanks.

Posted by: snake | Dec 8 2023 21:48 utc | 94

"If RF reacted every time to NATO's childish provocations, we will be a knee deep in WWIII without any rules of an engagement. RF dictates the tempo from the day one of SMO.
Every red line comes to a retaliation at RF's choosing the time and place. SMO is not under NATO's control.
Posted by: whirlX | Dec 8 2023 17:44 utc | 28"

This is because NATO and the West have lost their fear of Russia. In 1968, the Warsaw Pact invaded Czechoslovakia and the most NATO was willing to do was the equivalent of "thoughts and prayers".

Note that Russia does not provoke NATO, but NATO provokes at every opportunity.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Dec 8 2023 21:48 utc | 95

NATO is nothing more than a captive market for the US weapons industry.

As long as they keep pushing the idea of the Ukraine joining NATO 'after the war', there will either be no 'after the war' or no Ukraine.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Dec 8 2023 16:33 utc | 2

That's just one of the many wealth extraction mechanisms.

The primary purpose is that NATO is a fig leaf that presents de facto US occupation of the NATO "partners" (France is a notable exception, Turkey too, although it does have important US bases on its territory) as something that is good for those countries.

Then the US is free to loot them.

The grandest such act of theft will be the transfer of German industry to the US after the US first blocked the start of and then physically destroyed Nord Stream.

And Germany could do nothing about it because it is still an occupied country, 80 years later.

Then we go down the list.

Anything that is asked from those countries, especially the new members, they just say "Yes, please, where do we sign? " and provide it. Natural resource extraction concessions split 90-10 in favor of Western corporations, selling their agricultural land, cheap labor with suppressed wages, killing whatever industries they might have that could be competitors to the West, even more US bases, giving away their military stocks, and in the near future quite likely sending their young men to die fighting Russia too.

These are the new colonies, in everything but name.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Dec 8 2023 21:48 utc | 96

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 21:45 utc | 92

But the Christians (English) conquerors are fine with you, huh?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 8 2023 21:53 utc | 97

Simplicius with a short message:

https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/establishment-alarmism-in-overdrive

Can't wait for them to broach the idea of bringing back the draft. LOL. Bunch of fat kids and, more importantly, kids that have seen through the lies, aren't going to make for a very tough army - when they don't just desert or flee to Central America.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 8 2023 21:56 utc | 98

" But the Christians (English) conquerors are fine with you, huh?

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 8 2023 21:53 utc | 97 "


Thats a childish rebuttal, Where did I ever write that I was happy with the wrongs that Christianity committed ? I will call out any group for doing reprehensible things, Christianity and Islam included. There are no innocents on this planet.

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 21:56 utc | 99

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 8 2023 21:56 utc | 99

And yet you're worried about the wars of conquest many centuries ago? Sad state of affairs in India these days, I guess.

Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Dec 8 2023 21:57 utc | 100

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