Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 14, 2023
Accepting Defeat In Ukraine

In early November the Economist published an interview and several pieces by the commander in chief of the Ukrainian army, General Zaluzny. As I summarized:

Zaluzny's central thesis is that the war is currently at a stalemate. It has become positional, with no large maneuvers being possible. He compares it to the war in Europe in 1917. There, he says, a change only happened through the introduction of new technologies (i.e. tanks).

I for one think that Zaluzny is mistaken. The war is not at a stalemate. Russia has clearly the advantage as it is free to maneuver along the whole frontline and to attack wherever it likes. It does not do so in full force because the current situation allows it to conveniently fulfill the order its commander in chief had given to it – to destroy the military capabilities of Ukraine.

Finally a western mainstream writer has caught up with those facts. Lee Hockstader, the Washington Post's columnist for European affairs,  opines:

In Ukraine, the risk isn’t stalemate. It’s defeat.

Hockstader laments the lack of support from the U.S. and Europe for the new demands the Ukraine is making. He states:

Without those infusions of cash, arms and munitions, even the disappointing status quo over the past year, in which Ukraine has not managed to recapture much territory, is unlikely to endure.

Andriy Yermak, a top aide to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, told a Washington forum last week that the “big risk” is that Kyiv’s troops could “lose this war.”

That message should jolt policymakers on both sides of the Atlantic. The danger, as Ukraine’s top general warned publicly last month, isn’t simply stalemate. It is that Ukrainian forces, running low on equipment, might be compelled to fall back, shorten their defensive lines and abandon territory.

It’s essential to think about what Ukraine’s defeat means, because it would be as much a strategic disaster for the United States and its NATO allies as a tableau of terror for Ukraine. Dual cataclysms, equally stark, played out on different timetables.

Well, yes. The West has shot its wad and it proved to be sterile.

There will be no terror for Ukraine, just the loss of the ethnic Russian people, industries and land the communist – Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev – had for whatever reasons attached to it. The rest of it will be a smaller, more poor and purely agricultural rump state without access to the sea. This was obvious from the very beginning to anyone with a clear view of the balance of the forces involved in the war.

As I wrote on February 24 2022, the very day Russian forces entered Ukraine:

Looking at this map I believe that the most advantageous end state for Russia would be the creation of a new independent country, call it Novorussiya, on the land east of the Dnieper and south along the coast that holds a majority ethnic Russian population and that, in 1922, had been attached to the Ukraine by Lenin. That state would be politically, culturally and militarily aligned with Russia.


bigger

This would eliminate Ukrainian access to the Black Sea and create a land bridge towards the Moldavian breakaway Transnistria which is under Russian protection.

Excursus:

The yellow part of that map marked 'Ukraine in 1654' was actually the land of the Eastern Orthodox Zaporozhian Cossacks. Under threat from the Catholic Lithuanian-Polish Commonwealth, which at the time held the green parts under serfdom, they negotiated the Pereiaslav Agreement (1654) with Russia and pledged allegiance to the Tsar. They area thus became an autonomous part of Russia.

End Excursus

The rest of the Ukraine would be a land confined, mostly agricultural state, disarmed and too poor to be build up to a new threat to Russia anytime soon. Politically it would be dominated by fascists from Galicia which would then become a major problem for the European Union.

Thanks to Stalin's additions to the Ukraine three countries, Poland, Hungary and Romania, have claims to certain areas in the Ukraine's western regions. If they want to snatch those up again it is now probably the best time to do so. Despite being part of NATO, which likely would not support such moves, those three will have domestic policy difficulties to withstand the urge.

Since then we learned that Novorussiya will not be an independent state but a genuine part of Russia. So be it. Meanwhile analysts like Hockstader still delve in fantasies:

A complete Ukrainian military collapse is unlikely, at least in coming months. Kyiv’s armed forces remain well-led and motivated, and they are husbanding equipment to prepare for shortfalls. But it is equally unlikely to expect a negotiated cease-fire with Russia that would maintain existing battle lines. To believe in that seemingly anodyne outcome is to misjudge Putin — again.

This is not misjudging Putin, but misjudging the capabilities left to Ukraine. It has run out of men and material. There are daily videos of this or that Ukrainian army unit condemning its leaders and announcing to leave its positions. The potential of a collapse of Ukrainian army is real.

On November 2 I also wrote about the 47th Ukrainian brigade:

During the last days tanks from the 47th brigade (Leo 2) and 10th mountain brigade (T-64BM/BV) have been seen, and were destroyed, near Avdiivka. Both brigades had only recently been mauled during their hopeless attacks at the southern front. It does not make sense to throw what is left of them into another battle without reconstituting them. The whole experience and knowledge these brigades had gained will be lost with them.

Yesterday, the Ukraine friendly Military Watch Magazine confirmed my opinion:

Ukraine’s Elite 47th Mechanised Brigade Surrounded and Low on Ammunition: Critical Front Faces Collapse

The Ukrainian Army’s elite 47th Mechanised Brigade stationed in the town of Avdiivka in the disputed Donetsk region has been surrounded and forced to contend with growing ammunition shortages, according to multiple reports from Ukrainian and Western sources. British reports indicate that the brigade was meant to attack a Russian column before it linked up with assault infantry on the northern flank of Avdievka, but failed to do so due to a lack of ammunition. The brigade’s efforts to stop the advance of Russian forces in Avdievka were described by The Times as “desperate,” fuelling perceptions of an “inevitable collapse” of Ukrainian positions, and diminished hope of preventing a Russian victory by the beginning of the New Year holidays.

A serviceman from the 47th Brigade, cited only as Sergeant Danylo, observing when interviewed over the past week “a shitty situation” as the shell shortage forced soldiers to make impossible life-and-death decisions.“We had 10 times more ammunition over summer, and better quality… American rounds come in batches of almost identical weights, which makes it easier to correct fire, with very few duds. Now we have shells from all over the world with different qualities, and we only get 15 for three days. Last week we got a batch full of duds.” Thus instead of firing on Russians as soon as they came within range, Ukrainian personnel increasingly had to wait to be sure the Russians were heading for their positions and to only engage large groups. Munitions produced by European states have very frequently been faulted for their quality, and at times been considered near useless, with Italian equipment being particularly notorious for its poor quality, in contrast to superior equipment either inherited from the Soviet era or produced in by the United States.

Now tell me again that these are "well-led and motivated" forces which are "husbanding equipment to prepare for shortfalls". Neither rings true to me.

Hockstader continues:

For the Kremlin dictator, a “compromise” would involve Ukraine’s subjugation and dissolution as an independent state. That would include regime change, with Zelensky in exile (or dead), as well as an end to Kyiv’s aspirations to join the E.U. or NATO.

If he is right, the timetable of that ending would be accelerated if Congress and the E.U. fail to approve fresh support. That would leave Ukraine’s government unable to maintain basic services, and its military increasingly short of artillery ammunition, air defense capability and other equipment. Ukraine’s already badly battered front-line forces would become more brittle. Russian territorial gains would be accompanied by murders, rapes, kidnapping of children and other Russian war crimes on a chilling scale.

That grim scenario would be a staggering blow to Western prestige and credibility, revealing that pledges to back Ukraine for “as long as it takes” were empty.

Yes, those pledges, by Biden and others, were indeed empty. That is why he has recently changed his talk:

Amid a Republican standoff and polarizing politics that puts new aid to Ukraine at risk, President Joe Biden emphasized his administration's willingness to support Ukraine, but the language was different. He said the US will be there for Kyiv "as long as we can."

It's a change in tune from previous messaging that the US would be a staunch and fierce ally to Ukraine, aiding it for "as long as it takes" to defeat Russia's invasion.

The West can no longer support the proxy war it had started.

History will now follow its destined path.

Comments

Just @ 90
Its conceivable the Iranians have provided the Houtis with their latest Shkval torpedo, but its warhead is likely not powerful enough – much like the missiles the Houties have.
Be that as it may, if they could pull it off, the lesson would be shattering for the Yanks.
The downside is that, whereas there have always been 5,000 crew on the thing available to meet Valhalla, I read that she is way low on complement currently due to the ongoing drop in US enlistments.
Oh, well. C’est La Guerre.

Posted by: wilsonK | Dec 14 2023 18:12 utc | 101

Posted by: Winston, journalist | Dec 14 2023 11:58 utc | 10
The largest landholders are a mix of oligarchs and a variety of foreign interests, mostly European and North American

Do you have any other sources for this? You often hear about Blackrock, Monsato etc. have huge holdings but where is the documentation? Not that I doubt it personally, but I had never heard of that Oakland Institute before the Ukraine report (although they seem to fight for noble causes). Also, the footnotes in that report are a little skinny.

Posted by: Sudsie76 | Dec 14 2023 18:13 utc | 102

librul | Dec 14 2023 17:57 utc | 92
Moor war…
……………….
Borrels “garden and the jungle” – Westphalia vs the the rest – the barbarians and savages of the jungle.
I look at those about me, how completely they have have changed due to a decade of propaganda. This can only end in the utter destruction of the hubris and supremacy filled garden of Westphalia.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 18:16 utc | 103

@93
Reuters on F-16 to Ukraine is a farce.
F-16 for US is logistics problem!
For Ukraine 1500 miles or more from US supplies in German, a type USAF can’t keep flying.
Reuters says magically there will be plenty of supplies and Tech Manuals in Ukrainian and Russian.
Nothing on Danish and Dutch F-16 should add assurance, even if they could fly half the gifts once a day…..
Reuters should have asked anyone tracking the sorry state of US tactical aircraft.

Posted by: paddy | Dec 14 2023 18:19 utc | 104

This of course, begs the question of why the press continue to go along with the charade if they know that what they write is all bullshit.
Posted by: Feral Finster | Dec 14 2023 17:04 utc | 82
Because they live in a virtual world and that can’t be revealed as it is. Btw, in the virtual nato world they’ve also shot down 6 hypersonics today!
But they haven’t shared the calculation, so us mortals are left tying to follow their reasoning pretty much in the dark.
Posted by: Tim | Dec 14 2023 18:08 utc | 99
The owners/abramoviches/bibi don’t allow hits on their properties. So it’s no. Even the great retreater Surovikin still ended in Africa after a few timid shots at the ukro power grid last year

Posted by: rk | Dec 14 2023 18:20 utc | 105

Posted by: Inkan1969 | Dec 14 2023 15:57 utc | 60
Dearie me!. Are you still around and persisting with your futile boosting of western propaganda campaign? I would have thought that the return would be well into the extreme minus side of general credibility by now. So in that case, keep on keeping on – we could all do with some light amusement these days.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Dec 14 2023 18:20 utc | 106

Peter @102
Remember, Peter, changing belief structures is like trying to de-program cultism. Sometimes a really good tap to the chops with a shovel might do it, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Generally better just to let them learn the hard way.
.

Posted by: wilsonK | Dec 14 2023 18:26 utc | 107

Posted by: JamesBond | Dec 14 2023 11:25 utc | 6
Posted by: Chicago Bob | Dec 14 2023 12:06 utc | 15
Regarding that map I would add that Russia will need a ATACMS sized buffer zone to it’s current borders.
For rump Ukraine that could mean the Dniepr as the border.
Incidentally the Dniepr basin is also where the remaining coal and steel are so these regions are desirable to take. Dniepropetrowsk and Poltawa oblasts probably end up Russian.
Mountains seem to have higher strategic value than rivers with the new drone and artillery developments.
The interesting spot is Kiev on both sides of the river and way too close to Russia. If I had to take a bet the border should end up somewhere defensible along the Sumy-Krementschug line.
About the way to get there.. trenches take time and large machinery to dig, this is impossible under drone and artillery pressure. Once the front moves faster than the trenches can be moved back we will see the front collapse.
I am still surprised there have not been any attempts at traditional air superiority. Maybe drones are enough or the idea is to capture some western AD systems. If that happens NATO is screwed for good, no one has the billions to get new systems.
Not that NATO had the planes today to even fight the fight they planned for.
Long term the west should be less happy about Finland and Sweden and be concerned about the new Middle East. The heartland would look different with some of Iran, Syria, Turkey, Bulgaria and Romania or Hungary reapproaching Russia. This makes sense once the Black Sea is secured. EU should really be concerned what upside can be given to these countries with BRICS rising. EU is running out of financial colonies here.

Posted by: SOS | Dec 14 2023 18:26 utc | 108

Every day I wonder why is Russia not attacking Ukro electrical facilities. Is that not better then Russian soldiers dying?
Posted by: zorge | Dec 14 2023 17:24 utc | 88
Indeed. The trite answer is “because the world’s greatest strategic minds have calculated that it is not the best way to achieve their objectives”. But they haven’t shared the calculation, so us mortals are left tying to follow their reasoning pretty much in the dark.
Posted by: Tim | Dec 14 2023 18:08 utc | 99
It is quite obvious that the Russians are allowing Kiev to keep feeding the meat-grinder for as long as they choose to do so. Only when that stops will they think about whether or not they want to take down the electric grid.
I think they will not bother at that point, but I’m not in charge.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 14 2023 18:30 utc | 109

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
Zaluzny is a great general. Right. Russia is going to roll across Ukraine into Europe. Right. Scholtz, Ursula, Annalena. These people are idiots and they are spouting nonsense. As much nonsense as Zelensky. Almost by definition whatever these people say is wrong. Once again, I go back to the witch burnings. Whole swaths of Western culture are not sane; they cannot add 2+2. And it’s Putin’s fault that those of us can add don’t believe them.
Maybe Russia will have to sweep through Europe. Hoe else can they protect themselves?
I only know a couple of Ukrainians. They emigrated to US years back. They are missing something mentally. And it passes through – what I’ve seen – so far three generations! Is it a disease of the West? WTF? If ROW catches this disease, yeow!
Maybe there are two groups know what is happening: 1) the Russian command and 2) western hedge funds – the ones that want to buy the land – whether to plant seeds or to bury toxics.

Posted by: oracle | Dec 14 2023 18:32 utc | 110

Every day I wonder why is Russia not attacking Ukro electrical facilities. Is that not better then Russian soldiers dying?
Posted by: zorge | Dec 14 2023 17:24 utc | 88
Indeed. The trite answer is “because the world’s greatest strategic minds have calculated that it is not the best way to achieve their objectives”. But they haven’t shared the calculation, so us mortals are left tying to follow their reasoning pretty much in the dark.
Posted by: Tim | Dec 14 2023 18:08 utc | 99
They’re trying but many of their missiles are being shot down by Ukrainian air defenses. Just today the Slavyangrad telegram channel (hardly a pro Ukrainian source) stated Ukraine shot down a Kinzhal missile over Kiev. The Kinzhal is one of Russia’s most advanced (if not the most advanced) missiles and Ukraine is able to down them.

Posted by: bored | Dec 14 2023 18:38 utc | 111

Posted by: oracle | Dec 14 2023 18:32 utc | 109
If western hedge funds want to buy Ukrainian land, then they don’t really know what is happening – unless they are looking for a tax write-off.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Dec 14 2023 18:41 utc | 112

Biden’s goal right now is not for Ukraine to win, it is to get the loss blamed on the Republicans.

Posted by: ian | Dec 14 2023 18:45 utc | 113

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ Front #Summary for 14 Dec 2023 by 19:54⚡️
🔹In #Kherson Direction, the AFU continue to hold a foothold in #Krynki. This issue was even voiced today on the hotline with the President. According to him, the Russian command has decided to withdraw from part of the village in order to protect personnel, as the AFU has concentrated artillery strikes on this narrow section. Moreover, on his personal instructions, the General Staff is in no hurry to push the enemy out of #Krynki: “it is to our advantage that they thoughtlessly send further personnel there.” Nevertheless, our army continues to target boats on the #Dnieper with reserves and supplies, controlling the number of enemy on our shore.
🔹In #Zaporozhye Direction, despite bad weather, with difficulties for drone pilots on both sides, our army is carrying out powerful attacks on the #Orekhov section. Near #Verbovoye, our military managed to push the AFU out of a tactically important position. And they are moving on, as reported from the field. At #Rabotino the AFU tried to counterattack. Ours not only repulsed the attack, but also advanced themselves in the return battle. Near #Novofyodorovka are battles for the heights. We are trying to retake positions that we were forced to give up in the summer.
🔹In #SouthDonetsk Direction, our forces are fighting on the outskirts of #Novomikhaylovka. They are moving from the south and southeast. After the liberation of this settlement, we will have the opportunity to cut off the supply routes of the AFU grouping in #Ugledar. Today, #Pobeda is also making progress. Our units are trying to build on their success in #Maryinka. They are also fighting in the area of the #Maryinka Reservoir, with the prospect of an offensive near #Georgiyevka in the direction of #Kurakhovo.
🔹In #Donetsk Direction, on the southern #Avdeyevka flank, our army is fighting directly within the city. It is noted from the field that the AFU groups defend the city powerful. At the same time, their attempts to push our forces back at least from the city limits are unsuccessful. Here, as on the #Zaporozhye front, ours managed to push back the enemy with a retaliatory attack. On the northern flank, our units have entrenched in the forest belt north of #Stepovoye and on the first street. The counterattacks of the AFU were unsuccessful here as well. Our military continue their methodical advance northwards towards #Ocheretino along the railway line. Coke Plant is also facing tough battles.
🔹In #Bakhmut Direction, north of #Soledar, our fighters pushed the AFU back near #Razdolovka. They continue levelling the #Nikolayevka – #Razdolovka – #Vesyoloye line. Northwest of the city, we are fighting on the outskirts of #Bogdanovka, which is a large key fortification on the way to Chasov Yar. Fierce battles are ongoing for the #Grigorovka – #Bogdanovka motorway. In the south, heavy fighting is underway. Our forces have extended their zone of control in #Kleshcheyevka a little further. There are clashes near #Andreyevka and to the south, though so far without any changes in the frontline.
🔹In #Svatovo Direction, without changes but also heavy fighting. Attempts of the AFU to counterattack near #Torskoye ledge and in the area of #Kremennaya failed. Fighting continues in #Sinkovka and near #Petropavlovka, with no clear advantage for either side.
⚠️ #Maryinka is operationally conquered, but not within the full geographical limits. Therefore the contradictory reports.

https://t.me/sitreports/19440

Posted by: Down South | Dec 14 2023 18:45 utc | 114

wilsonK | Dec 14 2023 18:26 utc | 106 “Generally better just to let them learn the hard way.”
The way things are shaping up, that is the view I am beginning to take.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 18:47 utc | 115

Posted by: SOS | Dec 14 2023 18:26 utc | 107
Interesting speculation. But in order to obtain ‘de-nazification’, stopping ay Kiev may not be good enough. It may be necessary to take the whole or at least most of the Ukraine, then organise the rump into a de-militarised state with a Russian oriented government and cast iron treaty conditions.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Dec 14 2023 18:49 utc | 116

Posted by: bored | Dec 14 2023 18:38 utc | 110
Hey bored, here is something just posted from Slavyngard Ukrainians can only shoot down kinzhas on the internet…
➡️ It is reported that while the Darkest One was communicating with the people, the farmers lost their entire Patroit air defense system. $1.2 billion was destroyed by three Kinzhal missiles.
Join Slavyangrad chat. Your opinion matters.

Posted by: ctiger | Dec 14 2023 18:56 utc | 117

naive 86, “One question I have since the beginning of the SMO: why does Russia not address an ultimatum to the western countries supplying weapons to Ukraine?” – Just to teach the West that they can send as many weapons and mercenaries money can buy, but they will never win.

Posted by: Oliver Krug | Dec 14 2023 19:05 utc | 118

Karlof1
What are you picking up from what you are reading Karl. I see various signs that the war of the garden vs the jungle will expand/widen.
Larry Johnson after his trip to Moscow said those Russians he had talked to were mystified at the wests hostility/stupidity or something along those lines. Putin Lavrov have spoken of their concerns of the war widening. Crash test dummy, stoltenberg, borrel ect ect, will all be echoing their masters voice. The genocide of Gaza with US constantly vetoing cease fire initiative, the ongoing build up for war with China. The build up here in oz seems to be moving fast, expanded US bases, intermediate missile pointed at China being set up across Australia’s north.
Nothing I am seeing bodes well for the near future.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 19:10 utc | 119

https://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/158427-russian_forces_ukraine/
Russia is now deploying missiles to attack Kiev, Odessa and Kharkov. So the front may widen quite appreciably in the near/mid future.

Posted by: Jams O’Donnell | Dec 14 2023 19:10 utc | 120

NATO had one shot to bring about the kind of outcome they envisaged, with a non-trivial but ‘manageable’ risk of all-out nuclear war.
But this plan would have entailed a massive “sheep-dipping” in advance of NATO non-infantry forces, under the cover of a massive Western PMC with everything–airforce, ships, etc.–plus forcing actual NATO navies into the Black Sea, a willingness to fly using ‘PMC’ personnel out of NATO or ‘privatized’ bases in poland, or from US carriers in Black Sea. A bit like US in Syria. Not directly engaging RF aircraft at first, but with pretext/mission of attacking “rebels” & logistics, trains, communications, bridges, dams, guarding movements of ‘food’, etc.
They would have to be committed at least that far before Russia could quite grasp that its minimal, Syria-style, message-sending SMO was *totally* not what was called for.
But that would have meant preparations that Russian intel could and should have picked up on, rather than see that a) NATO wasn’t ready for war (true) & b) thinking the SMO would be a wake-up call to France & Germany at least (false).
The UAF, as constituted, would have been the ideal “dispensable” land army that NATO would have been politically incapable of sustaining, but it had to be backed by everything the West could throw in at some threshold just below the probability of a nuclear response.
Russia took a year to actually mobilize, and huge damage could have been dealt in the interim–moreover, China, India, Iran, etc. would have had much less confidence that RF was going to win, and that they were backing a winner.

Posted by: Paul Damascene | Dec 14 2023 19:19 utc | 121

@James Bond
1/2 the Ukrainian population has fled the country, 500,000 of it’s armed forces are dead, the birthrate is ~1/2 that of most it’s European neighbours, 20% of the land area is no longer in it’s possession, by it’s own doing.
Ukraine already began 2022 as the poorest and most corrupt country in Europe. The State is unable to cover the wages of it’s own government and is expected to raise the retail price of LNG by as much as 70% in 2024. It’s military is all but attritted by an adversary with which it is in an intractable conflict, the latter ranked #1 force in the world by a growing number of geopolitical analysts. One of the ex-ministers of Ukraine has intimated to media that management has been stealing anything that isn’t nailed down.
Stay optimistic, Jimmy.

Posted by: nwwoods | Dec 14 2023 19:29 utc | 122

Posted by: Paul Damascene | Dec 14 2023 19:19 utc | 120
Had NATO taken that one shot we’d all have been nuked. No, USUK knew they’d never defeat Russia conventionally or economically, they just wanted to keep the Russians very busy while they were busy making other plans.
Biological plans I would say, if my enemy couldn’t be destroyed and my life was on the line, I wouldn’t think twice about gassing the fuckers.

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Dec 14 2023 19:43 utc | 123

Paul Damascene | Dec 14 2023 19:19 utc | 120–
Hindsight is always more visionary. The initial strategy Russia employed would have met with success except for NATO interference that forced the SMO’s continuance. The continuance prompted Russia to alter its strategy that took it awhile to get organized. The Wagner Opera still has unanswered questions that largely don’t matter anymore. Russia’s capabilities at the outset meant NATO would lose, the only real question being when. Also revealed was the utter lack of vision shown by the Outlaw US Empire as it and its MIC did zilch to prepare for its proxy war. Indeed, there’s a vacuum of any sort of rational thought as to strategy being developed within the Outlaw US Empire. Published yesterday was an analysis saying the Empire is incapable of even waging a one front war with a peer, meaning China or Russia. And there’s zip, zero in the MIC pipeline capable of making up the growing gap in military abilities. Putin today said there’s no need for another mobilization because in fact one is already happening on a voluntary basis–something no NATO nation can match without moving to conscription. And for Europe, it’s cut off the primary source of energy and raw materials required to build any sort of military power because those key, essential, assets were obtained from Russia.
In short, NATO’s utter lack of vision and realistic assessment caused it to defeat itself. And that defeat can’t be reversed. When the SMO is completed, there remains the now two-year old security proposals Russia made that will still need to be addressed and will probably be over three years old when that occurs.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 14 2023 19:51 utc | 124

Jams O’Donnell | Dec 14 2023 19:10 utc | 119
Sounds like the US general and his staff sent in to rally the Ukroids are about to become pretty patterns on their bunkers walls.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 19:52 utc | 125

Let’s not count chickens before they come home to roost folks.
I understand and sympathize with Russia’s position and aims. However, there’s been a lot of false starts regarding optimism about russia’s position in this war. I do believe ukraine is having existential problems but there could easily be a full year of hard fighting left. They are actively engaged in installing survikian defences right now further behind the line and further large scale assistance could easily materialize.
Don’t believe anything a government says if they say they’re out of weapons be suspicious. It’s easy to believe things that justify your pre existing beliefs.
If this makes you think “concern troll” you’ve got blinders on. Don’t do it I fucking hate that ridiculous willful blindness. Think like your life depends on being aware and open to uncomfortable truths. Because it very well might.

Posted by: Neofeudalfuture | Dec 14 2023 19:54 utc | 126

I might be totally wrong – but with the admission of Ukraine to the EU, which will happen sooner or later, – the question of “defeat” or “victory” is of secondary question now. In effect project Ukraine has always been about building up Europe as the new anti-Russia. On that level any outcome in Ukraine within the limits of reality makes not much of a difference. So I have my doubts this “defeat of NATO” is of such meaningful substance. Martyanov might say that since WWII the US has only been defeated. But after all the military is as we know a means to an end only. And in that context goals have usually been achieved: Vietnam was destroyed, Latin America was destroyed, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria were all destroyed or left in complete disarray. In any of these cases the US power players got what they wanted. Chaos in all of these regions, which meant, chaos to everyone but the US.
In that light I wouldn´t even rule out moves by the EU to acquire WMDs of their own. Something the US had been opposed to for 60 years. But as US dominance decreases the vassals have to man up. And apparently they are determined to. Which is why a different kind of PR approach by Moscow also regarding freedom of speech and some other issues ought to be chosen. Because in the long run only Europe´s people can alter this. For that they need to see through the MSM propaganda and RU’s inaction on that level is part of the problem – “soft power” turns into “hard power.”

Posted by: AG | Dec 14 2023 19:58 utc | 127

#88 #99 #108 Bemildred
Which goes to the question of why RF did not go after the 750 KV substations months and months ago and settled on just going after T% amount of the 330 KV substations. I was of the opinion then that RF was showing what their capability was. That capability was if need be they could totally shut the lights and heat off.
Today I was finally blessed by something by Yuri on Slavyangrad, been awhile. “It is a civil war, we will not do actions like Dresden, Nagasaki, Tokyo, Hiroshima et al” Not a precise quote, but.
RF is choosing this winter to not have civilian citizens of Ukraine freeze to death in the dark. I would hypothesize that RF will be the only country with spare 330 and 750 KV substations on the planet.
If/when RF decides it is strategically provident to degrade by Y% electrical power to W% of Ukraine … I do not think that we are Waiting for Godot for the collapse of the Ukranian armed forces. Taking out the electrical grid then might save thousands of RF forces casulties for the taking over of Kharkov and Odessa if that is the way things go.
Side note: Lt Generals would have maybe 12 aides accompanying them. If the newest patriot system deployed to Ukraine was just Khinzaled, I would really not want to be one of those lucky 13 usOfa officers just posted to Ukraine.

Posted by: paxmark1 | Dec 14 2023 20:02 utc | 128

@ zorge: Why do I get the feeling that if Dima stopped writing, you would cease to exist?
@ Tanenhouser: To “shoot one’s wad” originally had nothing to do with the sex act. The term originated in the American Wild West and referred to spending one’s weekly wages promptly on receipt (Friday evening) on alcohol, gambling…and whores. So maybe the term always had a hint of sexual implication?
re Inkanazi: The Peru business, if we can believe it, does make some sense given that commenter’s periodic disappearances. No doubt they occur whenever his Inflatable My Little Pony arrives via DHL, and he returns once said Little Pony is, shall we say, exhausted.

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 14 2023 20:08 utc | 129

@ paxmark1 | Dec 14 2023 20:02 utc | 127 and others
I think that Russia is well aware that if it destroys the 750 KV substations, she will only have to rebuild them from scratch on at least those parts of the Ukraine she chooses to bring home. Not an appealing prospect

Posted by: malenkov | Dec 14 2023 20:11 utc | 130

Terminator-2 tanks in use in Avdeevka.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj7PT8T0fNU

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 14 2023 20:19 utc | 131

Today I was finally blessed by something by Yuri on Slavyangrad, been awhile. “It is a civil war, we will not do actions like Dresden, Nagasaki, Tokyo, Hiroshima et al” Not a precise quote, but.
Posted by: paxmark1 | Dec 14 2023 20:02 utc | 127

That sounds good, but the corollary is that Russian leadership has to also think about the hundreds of thousands of dead and maimed on the Ukrainian side (and the eventually to be over 100K Russians too).
The promise what there will never be a big war on Russian lands again. And yet here we are.
But the Kremlin did, and still does have a winning move to both win the war quickly and stop the slaughter — block the border with NATO. You don’t need to physically control it, one 5-kt missile at each border crossing every two weeks will keep them shut down permanently, with minimal civilian casualties. However, that has not been done, and is clearly not coming any time soon.
AFU, SBU, GUR and Ukrainian civilian leadership have also not been touched, even though those are all absolute scum Nazi war criminals that need to die in the most gruesome way possible, thus there is nothing to protect there, and decapitation will obviously degrade Ukrainian fighting abilities. Especially if combined with a shutdown of the western borders.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Dec 14 2023 20:19 utc | 132

If I am following what is happening clearly, it looks like serious escalation by empire.
Is Ukraine now under the NATO umbrella or is it not?
It sounds like NATO is going to act like it is and send the F16s from NATO nations into the Ukraine SMO…..how long before they are shot down?
If the US can openly state that one of there own military is leading the show in Ukraine, is that not direct participation? Is the idiot really going to come into Ukraine and try and operate?…..I would not want to be anywhere around him, given the target that he represents….
The shit show continues until it doesn’t. Are all entertained?

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 14 2023 20:21 utc | 133

@paxmark #127
Ukraine signed contracts with the EU to provide power and hooked up to the grid, Russia systematically destroyed enough that a few bombs leave Ukraine drawing 90% of it’s power from the EU causing havoc on the EU’s grid and costing a boatload of money for all that power flowing in the wrong direction.

Posted by: OohCanada | Dec 14 2023 20:24 utc | 134

Regarding that map of Ukraine and Novorossiya, there is a mistake: the territory between the Danube and Dnester (including Ismail and Khilia, which were bombed last night) belonged to the Kingdom of Romania between 1918 and 1940. If the government in Kyiv collapses, Romanians will likely move in to occupy this territory before the Russians get there. They would be stupid not to do it.

Posted by: john70 | Dec 14 2023 20:29 utc | 135

Are all entertained?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 14 2023 20:21 utc | 132
I for one are merely sickened by the suicidal tendencies of the leadership of the so called garden that will take the brainwashed peasants with them.
So much history to lean from, but the woke are too engrossed in making the decision as to whether or not they should have a sex change. The elite of the garden must believe this is something like Rorkes Drift and believe they will ultimately prevail.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 20:29 utc | 136

E. Clancy @68
Emmanuel Todd’s perspective, as a sociologist focussed on big-picture issues relating to economics, was already immensely perceptive, particularly in comparison with the intellectual bankruptcy of so much Western ‘thought’ on the conflict with Russia.
https://tass.com/world/1561887
Only adding to this is the fact that this article was published 11 months ago, and still contains more of relevance than the best of a bad lot of half-admissions of failure published in the West in the past few weeks.

Posted by: Paul Damascene | Dec 14 2023 20:35 utc | 137

@ zorge: Why do I get the feeling that if Dima stopped writing, you would cease to exist?
Posted by: malenkov | Dec 14 2023 20:08 utc | 128
Dima is a great analyst and expert on this war.

Posted by: zorge | Dec 14 2023 20:41 utc | 138

A US general who has been in charge of the Ukraine Command in Germany/Wiesbaden for some time,
NOW regularly travels to Ukraine.
He is not there all the time.
Why?
Speculation:
*To make the Ukrainians believe that Nato is not abandoning them, “otherwise they wouldn’t send a general”
*to be able to claim to the Russians that they are “neutral” because the commander is not permanently in the country
*Avoid leaks in the information chain
*The general needs something for his CV and career
*The general has learnt Ukrainian and wants to practise it on the ground

https://www.stripes.com/branches/army/2023-12-12/army-general-ukraine-eucom-12335117.html
https://sof.news/ukraine/sag-u/

Posted by: 600w | Dec 14 2023 20:41 utc | 139

zorge | Dec 14 2023 20:41 utc | 137
Dima lives in a fantasy world of tin foil hats and you are a bullshit artist.
Read some history to understand what is occurring now, listen to John Cleese if you want to understand the human mind.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 20:52 utc | 140

@ Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 20:29 utc | 135 for catching me not providing a /s tag when asking if all are entertained
Sorry. Yes it is sick and stupid for members of our species to act like this but it seems many have no moral compass.
Best to you!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 14 2023 21:01 utc | 141

Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 19:10 utc | 118–
Hi Peter, and good day to you! A bit of my comment to Paul Damascene @123 can be applied to your query, particularly the inability of the USE to wage any sort of war against a peer. What Asterovitch revealed is very important, so I’ve linked to it again. The key info is there’s been no expansion whatsoever by the USE’s MIC to produce the key items required by full scale industrial war. The only real military sector of the USE that has any sort of armaments is the USN, but it’s close to being useless in any conflict with Russia, China, Iran, or North Korea, while it might be effective against Venezuela depending on the sorts of missiles Maduro now has in his pantry. In Africa, the Empire has no friends and is being shown the exit. West Asia is similar with the Zionists being its only ally, although I might begin calling it a liability. The UNGA vote showed it still has Guatemala and Paraguay in its pocket, but what can debt-riddled Argentina (it abstained) provide?
The UNGA Gaza vote revealed only two European nations backed its position by voting against the resolution: Austria and Czech Republic. Most of NATO abstained or didn’t vote. What the vote shows is there’re 153 nations who are together and can be said to be the Global Majority, while those 40 that didn’t vote in favor can be deemed to form the Outlaw US Empire Bloc of nations it rules over. What was surprising was the votes of Canada, Australia and New Zealand in favor of the resolution and the joint statement its PMs issued afterwards discussed here showing a distinct split in 5-Eyes position that’s promising.
As you well know, bases aren’t weapons, and the Empire basically has nothing to put there. Given the ISR assets of China and Russia, there’s no way the Empire can launch a surprise attack anywhere capable of defeating any peer or even a second or third-line military power as technology has essentially erased what edge the Empire once enjoyed. And after what “for as long as it takes” is now seen for what it is and isn’t, how many potential proxies can the Empire now count on to do its deeds for it? The Neocons can fuss and fume all they want, but reality is now King and trumps their delusions. Fifty years of Neoliberalism and associated deindustrialization combined with the increasing inability to properly create usable weapons systems capable of bringing victory and waging Culture Wars that have massively degraded military proficiency and readiness have dealt a massive internally caused defeat of the Outlaw US Empire–an Own Goal on par with the USSR’s collapse.
Thus, the danger the Outlaw US Empire poses is mainly to itself as it has no way to defend against a nuclear attack that would take place if it went totally idiot and launched such an attack against any of its so-called enemies. Yes, the elites behind the curtain have proven to be very poor at choosing competent people and policies; but I still insist that they want to live and enjoy their toys, so they are extremely unlikely to go full-on idiot.
What will be done once they realize that they’ve lost the war and perhaps admitted that they defeated themselves depends on the variables within that question.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 14 2023 21:10 utc | 142

43
Ofban abstained cos he had got his 500m released from EU…ie bought off as clearly he thinks the overall stupidity of EU consensus is for EU membership.. Zcanjoin tge loo ies of Michel Borrell and von Leyen who will quote this membership success in their CV to continue in their doomed positions maybe .So…once bought off Orban has no validity maybe to return to his stance on “no”.It may only be ‘I told you so’.
So will Hungary move away from EU whilst he watches Ukraine slowly eats away at parasitic host EU ?
Will EU admit what might remains of Ukraine after Russian victory and totally embaress EU membership ? Will EU be part of the final settlement confrontation timatum but not negotiation perhaps unless Russia wishes that European architiecture of security is now more weighted in their favour and EU miggt be forced to act as fuyure Ukraineguarantors which migjt put them in a pre afious oosition if Ukr still goes rogue and subversive ? EU might regret being so enthusiastic about the costs of Ukraine reconstruction-,unless they get what is left under their own ownership . And watch it crumble.
I suppose no point in Russia stretching the SMO out for so long that there is nothing left for EU membership .. but Ukr might sufficiently collapse itself and EU will be faced with very red faces and even more stresses on its fragile state

Posted by: Jo | Dec 14 2023 21:21 utc | 143

New American strategy in Ukraine – “Hold & Build”
http://www.srilankaguardian.org/2023/12/american-shadow-commander-in-ukraine-to.html?m=1

Posted by: Alex Vadim | Dec 14 2023 21:35 utc | 144

“Every day I wonder why is Russia not attacking Ukro electrical facilities. Is that not better then Russian soldiers dying?”
Posted by: zorge | Dec 14 2023 17:24 utc | 88
To the extent it is very effective I’m sure they agree; as demonstrated early on in the SMO.
The advances in drone technology will have a big impact on this. I would expect a decisive (big) strike or wave of them to coincide with an offensive.
I believe RU can now beat NATO in the air. Nothing flies safely or for very long in Ukraine. Then it’s time to turn out the lights and shut down communications. You would think, but no.
All of this seem secondary to the safe attrition Ukraine’s military. It seems to frustrate everyone involved or observing. Me too. That’s kind of irrelevant; this strategy worked.
Allowing Ukraine to raise yet another army, or limp along until they’re mostly dead doesn’t appear to be the best strategy going forward. The optimum time for a big arrow offensive would likely be near the end of winter. The UK army is already in a state of partial collapse; how long do you wait?
librul @ 92
[Reuters Headline:] “How F-16 fighter jets could reshape Ukraine’s aerial battlefield”
I think Russia will be able to deny them air space and shoot them down. As targets their propaganda value alone is priceless. F-16’s won’t do much to change conflict.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Dec 14 2023 21:38 utc | 145

Posted by: Jo | Dec 14 2023 21:21 utc | 142
nobody would be that stupid to not take 10 b dorraz for basically nothing

Posted by: Macpott | Dec 14 2023 21:38 utc | 146

In case you missied it…
“Putin answers question from ‘body double’”
https://www.rt.com/russia/589078-putin-body-double-rumors/
Putin responding to the AI deep fake:

You look like me, you speak using my voice. But I’ve given it some thought, and decided that there should be only one person who looks like me and uses my voice. And that person should be me. It was a joke by one of our political figures,” the president said. He described the AI replica of him as his “first double.”

Cute. One recommended cure for fascism is mockery. Nicely done.

Posted by: David G Horsman | Dec 14 2023 21:43 utc | 147

karlof1 | Dec 14 2023 21:10 utc | 141
What I am starting to see here is that we are looking at current geopolitics with a realist pragmatic point of view as you have outlined in your reply whereas I now doubt the so called elite of the western world do. Particularly in what Larry Johnson said about this being far different to the cold war as even then, the west officials did not openly refer to the Soviet Union as the enemy.
In the cold war, western officials, war criminals or whatever, were at least pragmatic realists. I think what we are seeing now is the spawn of the Hubris that enveloped the west after the collapse of the Soviet Union who are neither realists nor pragmatists – those that think they will win no matter what simply because their daddies did.
When we look at the rise and fall of empires, human psych needs to be considered. When we look at the current leadership of the west, we are looking at people who have not learnt from history and will simply repeat history but in the nuclear age.
Kissinger, war criminal or whatever, was the last of the cold war realists. You are a historian. I have read a lot of history through my life. But the vast majority in the west have read nothing of history and I think are doomed to repeat it. I hope I am wrong, but to me, at the moment, all the signs are pointing in that direction.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 21:44 utc | 148

Jo @142–
Perhaps what Medvedev wrote on his Telegram a few days ago–12 December–can shed some light:

Parsing Biden’s words is a thankless job: an old man with clear signs of progressive dementia. And yet, sometimes he clearly gives out a kind of doctrinal preparations. Here is one of them, voiced during the visit of a Ukrainian beggar. We are talking about a mythical victory for Kyiv. Let’s take a look at it, because it’s symptomatic. So, according to Biden, “victory” now means that:
1. “Ukraine is an independent state” – i.e., the victory is that the “country” will simply remain, and not disappear from the map of the world. Borders and sovereignty are irrelevant. For example, it will remain within the borders of Lviv.
2. «… And she can defend herself today.” Please note: easy to protect. And only today, not tomorrow. No counter-offensives for you. No progress. It doesn’t matter what the consequences are. For example, to “defend themselves” within the same borders of Lviv with old tanks with a small amount of other equipment and weapons.
3. «… and deter further aggression.” Let’s leave “aggression” on the conscience of the old man, and not a preventive response to NATO’s actions. What is important is to “contain it itself” and not with the help of allies and their guarantees. In addition, there is an obvious understanding that the Russian Armed Forces will continue to crush neo-Nazis. It’s inevitable.
Well, as Ilyich used to say, this is a radical change in our views on socialism.
Add to this the stupid giggle of the grandfather with a confused face in the course of answering the question about the victory of Ukraine. I think that after such a “success”, the Bandera clown, out of frustration and powerlessness, arranged a drug trip for himself right on the plane…

Ukraine will likely be partitioned into nothing as Poland was once with not even Lvov remaining.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 14 2023 21:48 utc | 149

Current Reuters headlines “How F-16 fighter jets could reshape Ukraine’s aerial battlefield”
https://www.reuters.com/graphics/UKRAINE-CRISIS/FIGHTER-JETS/jnvwwqyylvw/
That is the next phase of the war against Russia and it will happen. That is when the war will widen.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 18:00 utc | 93

Suppose twenty planes get sent. Several won’t fly due to maintenance issues, and for every three sorties maybe two missiles hit a target while two of three planes get shot down. Two weeks from delivery to fly the remainders to safety in Romania.

Posted by: comrade simba | Dec 14 2023 21:52 utc | 150

Regarding that map of Ukraine and Novorossiya, there is a mistake: the territory between the Danube and Dnester (including Ismail and Khilia, which were bombed last night) belonged to the Kingdom of Romania between 1918 and 1940. If the government in Kyiv collapses, Romanians will likely move in to occupy this territory before the Russians get there. They would be stupid not to do it.
Posted by: john70 | Dec 14 2023 20:29 utc | 134

Doesn’t mean they are Romanian territories.
Romania also to this day occupies a lot of majority and traditionally Hungarian land, and between 1918 and 1940 it also occupied Southern Dobrudja (where the population consisted of Bulgarians and Turks and barely any Romanians).
The largest ethnic group in the Budzhak are Russians — by the last (and only) Ukrainian census in 2001, it was 125K Russians and 248K “Ukrainians”, but of those “Ukrainians” pretty much nobody speaks Ukrainian, they are all Russians who were written in as “Ukrainians” in the census, for obvious reasons (as also happened everywhere else), followed by Bulgarians at 129K, “Moldovans” at 78K (which splits into majority Romanians and a minority Moldovan Russian speakers), and 25K Gagauzians.
So in the best case for them Romanians are 12-13% of the population there. Bulgarians are 25%, Russians are 55-60%
This is why when Saldo was talking about how Putin promised him that not only Kherson, but also Nikolaev and Odessa will be returned, the list of cities mentioned did not end with Odessa, but with Izmail.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Dec 14 2023 22:02 utc | 151

As one said: maybe the Russia is largest land country in the world because… they are best at fighting and keeping it? Just food for thought.

Posted by: Abe | Dec 14 2023 22:07 utc | 152

Russian forces on the right bank of the Dniepr.
Posted by: Naive | Dec 14 2023 17:17 utc | 86
Russian forces are holding the left bank. Left shore is lower elevation than right bank, occupied by UAF, even north of the Dnieper Dam.
I thought MoA readers had cleared up westworld’s geographic gibberish last year.
The correct orientation, ie. locals’ point of view, is from Kiev perspective facing south—regardless of Dniper (“Dnipr”) river bends.

Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 14 2023 22:15 utc | 153

sln2002 | Dec 14 2023 22:15 utc | 152
From my understanding, left and right bank are always taken from the point of view of heading downriver regardless of river, towns or anything else.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 22:25 utc | 154

That is the next phase of the war against Russia and it will happen. That is when the war will widen.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 18:00 utc | 93

That reuter article is a joke. One lie after another.
For instance: PATRIOT batteries that proved effective in destroying even air-launched ballistic missiles.
As usual the ukronazis are bragging that they intercept 80% or more of the Russian missiles. Rather it is 100% of the Russian missiles which are intercepted by their targets.
Already the Abrams were sent back from the front. Not to let the world know how well they burn.
The article if full of “hopes”. Hopes make the fools happy.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 14 2023 22:42 utc | 155

comrade simba | Dec 14 2023 21:52 utc | 149
When, not if western planes are sent there will be far more than twenty and they will be operating from eastern European airfields. Ukraine is finished.
“Leaders and senior officials from around the world, including US Secretary of State Antony Blinken and NATO Secretary-General, Jens Stoltenberg, congratulated Tusk and said they looked forward to working with him and his team.”

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 22:43 utc | 156

malenkov | Dec 14 2023 20:08 utc | 128
I think that the real origin lies in musketry and cannnon firing, where a wad was used to seal the gunpowder charge so that the projectile was propelled with the maximum force.
Shooting the wad happened when there was no ammunition left.
I’m sure that among the citizens of the nation that worships firearms someone who knows more about it will comment.
I am sure that our host would never be so vulgar as refer directly to one of those acts that the lower classes engage in for entertainment- I gather. (and i’m not talking about hunting, though that would fit the bill equally well in the USA.)

Posted by: bevin | Dec 14 2023 22:43 utc | 157

bevin | Dec 14 2023 22:43 utc | 156
That is where it originated from. Still used in shotguns. Though perhaps patch for solid shot and wadding for for non solid shot. From the days of smooth bores.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 22:49 utc | 158

Once the wad has been shot, the action has pretty much culminated and the fun has been, well, I guess you could say, consummated.

Posted by: KMRIA | Dec 14 2023 22:52 utc | 159

86: “Kherson: all bridges destroyed, threat of dams being destroyed, isolating the Russian forces on the right bank of the Dniepr.”
Russian forces on the right bank of the Dniepr.
Posted by: Naive | Dec 14 2023 17:17 utc | 86
Russian forces are holding the left bank. Left shore is lower elevation than right bank, occupied by UAF, even north of the Dnieper Dam.
Posted by: sln2002 | Dec 14 2023 22:15 utc | 152

When you quote someone, why do you cut half of the quote so that the meaning is changed? It is a dishonest practice.
If you do not know that the Russian army occupied Kherson and more land on the right bank for several months, I can do nothing for you.

Posted by: Naive | Dec 14 2023 22:54 utc | 160

Interesting to note Putin made a specific reference to Krynky, based on Gerasimov’s advice, they allow Ukraine to keep feeding some of their troops in there because it will make things easier later on if/when RUAF crosses the river.
No chance to expand it, especially with several dozen FAB-500s and artillery hitting daily, also hitting AFU artillery on opposite shore.

Posted by: unimperator | Dec 14 2023 22:56 utc | 161

unimperator | Dec 14 2023 22:56 utc | 160
Gerasimov is a professional solder and as such it is his job to destroy the enemy within the terms outlined by his CIC. Krynky is a killing field. A rat trap that Ukroids will keep filing into.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 23:00 utc | 162

” Maybe the western elites will finally corrupt enough oligarchs in Russia and turn it back to the days of Yeltsin. You get the idea.
Posted by: TG | Dec 14 2023 12:52 utc | 23 ”
No need for that as the ” West ” always goes for the young minds first. What music do most Russian youth listen to, what movies do they watch ? What brands of clothes do they wear ? What ” heroes ” do they emulate ? What ” philosophies ” are they taught at school ? What consumer goods are they attracted to ? How many of those answers are ” Russian ” ?

Posted by: Moonie | Dec 14 2023 23:07 utc | 163

Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 21:44 utc | 147–
Thanks for your reply. I just read LJ’s latest asking why Intel is brazenly lying. I don’t usually reply but this time I did. It included commentary from this thread and a bit more, but my direct answer to his question was this:
“Why the lying? Simple, Intel is on the MIC payroll and is performing as lobbyists. Did you read the truth as told by Asterovitch? https://karlof1.substack.com/p/arestovich-goes-off
I understand your valid concerns, but one must remember that the people we see on TV and read about in BigLie Media are NOT those actually musing about policy. They are the ones controlling the system Asterovitch describes, and their only aim is to fatten their wad, not to destroy their ability to spend it. If they were hell-bent on war with Russia or China, they’d be making such a war possible by increasing MIC output AND the quality of that output, which is currently woeful.
The other aspect is because they’ve defeated themselves they have no new ideas. Years ago I said policy was entering into a box canyon from which there’s only one way out. Every time the Neocons double-down the walls get steeper and higher. The only rational exit is to go back through the entrance. That’s really no problem for those behind the curtain, but for Neocons that’s anathema. IMO, the genuine elite probably know it’s time to divest themselves of the Neocons who proved to be a bad long term investment. Whether that’s the case or not will become clearer as we move into 2024.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 14 2023 23:08 utc | 164

karlof1 | Dec 14 2023 23:08 utc | 163
I hope you are right Karl. “Whether that’s the case or not will become clearer as we move into 2024.” I guess that we shall just have to wait. Speaking to my sister gives me a window into the insanity now enveloping the western world. We can talk about many things we disagree on, but although she has never read, researched or traveled, has a fanatical hatred of Russia and China to the point we cannot discuss them at all. To me it is starting to look like its not just the bobbling heads of Europe and the crash test dummies of the US but also those that control them that think in that way.
But still, regardless my thoughts at the moment, its a matter of waiting to see what develops further.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 23:18 utc | 165

Moonie | Dec 14 2023 23:07 utc | 162–
Today, the vast majority is Russian. There’s very little of anything left that can be described as purely Western. What was once that is now worldly–Westerness is diluted into nothing through its own material success. On the intellectual front that wasn’t all too much Western to begin with, much is being repudiated and understood as Cultural Imperialism, the backlash aimed at Cancel Culture being in the vanguard. The attempt to eliminate all native languages and replace them with English is failing as it should. Three more generations into the 21st Century promise to make Multipolar Multicultural.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 14 2023 23:24 utc | 166

Peter AU1 | Dec 14 2023 23:18 utc | 164–
Thanks for your reply. People poisoned by bigotry are very difficult to reform as my own experiences prove. Agreeing to disagree depends on the value placed on the relationship by those involved. Divisions based on other moral issues will either be resolved or continue to be dividers, the degree of which will determine if the relationship continues or is ended. Trying to fix relations that can’t be fixed can make things worse in numerous ways. These interpersonal relations also occur between nations and between groups, the classic being the In-Groups versus Out-Groups within larger society. How long can Europe remain at odds with Russia? Well, as we know, most of Europe isn’t at odds with Russia. As Putin said, “we don’t have unfriendly people lists; we have unfriendly nation lists because of government policies.”

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 14 2023 23:42 utc | 167

Posted by: zorge | Dec 14 2023 20:41 utc | 137
Who: doesn’t know a BMD or what it’s significance is, relies on geolocated footage, with unit logos, of combat patrols, to draw his frontline graphics, and locate a units area of responsibility, and was talking about a helicopter assault near Odessa, shortly before the Ukrainian offensive. You mean that ‘expert’.

Posted by: Milites | Dec 14 2023 23:49 utc | 168

F16’s are likely an illusory promise meant to keep hopium flowing in the absence of actual dollars to Ukraine.
Meanwhile the US House adjourned for the rest of the year, assuring no fresh printed fiat goes to Kiev until January. Time to scrounge thru the garbage for leftover ammo.

Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Dec 14 2023 23:51 utc | 169

The momentum all along the front is starting to be unmistakable. Not all the gains are large but some of them are going to 1km+ deep in a day which is very fast for this conflict. But basically every day there’s a long list of gains by Russian forces. At this point I expect Russian offensive action to be a continuous slow build until Spring 2024. And that’s when Russia will push hard. It may push hard before that if there is a local collapse of the lines or a general collapse. But I expect that the general staff plan is to ceaselessly grind the Ukrainian military through the winter.
The Ukrainian energy system is held together with baling twine and tape; Russia is <20km from a major TPP. The state desperately needs money to just maintain salaries, just maintain a borderline catastrophic economic situation. The alternate is a path to hyper inflation. Everyone’s stealing what they can while they can. The political elite are in full blown Game of Thrones mode. The troops are in cold muddy trenches without enough ammo or food while the Russians pound them. And to keep troops in the field the “recruiters” are rounding up more and more meat.
Over the next four months the Ukrainian state has too many potential triggers for cascading collapse to keep track of. None of them will be better in mid March 2024. Russia may not March on Odessa, but it may demand the city to stop its marching. And Ukraine may very well be in no position to refuse the offer.

Posted by: Lex | Dec 14 2023 23:55 utc | 170

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 14 2023 23:24 utc | 165
I can really see Russia taking to multiculturalism, when I was there St Petersburg and Moscow were so ethnically diverse…not. As for nothing Western on the intellectual front, are you referring to Russia’s perspective, or a global view? The former is understandable, given their inferiority complex they still suffer from, the later laughably false and again tinged with the former inferiority complex.
Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 14 2023 23:42 utc | 166
Calling people who disagree with you bigots is part of the ‘insanity enveloping the Western World’ referred to by Peter AU1. Hence the woke mobs reliance on race and gender champions from minority groups to spearhead any campaigns, believing them to be immune from any criticism.

Posted by: Milites | Dec 15 2023 0:01 utc | 171

Milites | Dec 15 2023 0:01 utc | 170
bigot /bĭg′ət/
noun
One who is strongly partial to one’s own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
. A hypocritical professor of religion; a hypocrite; also, a superstitious adherent of religion.
A person who is obstinately and unreasonably wedded to a particular religious or other creed, opinion, practice, or ritual; a person who is illiberally attached to any opinion, system of belief, or party organization; an intolerant dogmatist.
……..
Karl describes them correctly.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 15 2023 0:14 utc | 172

https://www.wsj.com/world/world-disarray-diplomat-pessimistic-b2dad137
Ukraine defeat? What defeat? Russia is defeated and it all worked out wonderfully. Haas is big time. They now have their narrative and can hold their heads high, apparently.

Posted by: Eighthman | Dec 15 2023 0:17 utc | 173

Milites | Dec 15 2023 0:01 utc | 170–
Based on the words you chose you know nothing of multiculturalism and very much about Russia.

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 15 2023 0:20 utc | 174

So the Post has Hachstetter on staff, now, how apropo. Do they have Klink and Burkhalter, too?

Posted by: Dogtired | Dec 15 2023 0:36 utc | 175

So the Post has Hachstetter on staff, now, how apropo. Do they have Klink and Burkhalter, too?

Posted by: Dogtired | Dec 15 2023 0:36 utc | 176

Posted by: karlof1 | Dec 15 2023 0:20 utc | 173
How very progressive of you, concentrate on an officially approved interpretation of words, ignore their substance and make sweeping generalisations. So Russia is a bastion of racial multiculturalism, and would welcome minorities rapidly becoming majorities in local neighbourhoods, bringing their ‘culture’ with it. Country must have changed radically then, when African exchange students were regularly beaten up and the locals would ask to see the scar where their tails has been removed. Oh, I forgot, the only culture capable of racism is the evil Western devilish one, there’s that insecurity kicking in again.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 15 2023 0:14 utc | 171
Ever thought they might see you in the same light?

Posted by: Milites | Dec 15 2023 0:56 utc | 177

The Right is incompetent. Rarely does a representative appear who can debate ideas with knowledge and art, without relying solely on lies and subterfuge. In Brazil, recently, we had a clear neoliberal coup, without the usual violence of the Orange Coups applied around the world. The Right-wing governments, of 2 pusillanimous ones, were disastrous. To date, his supporters persist in denying reality and inventing evil. It is simply this, empty, ignorant, prejudiced, ambitious, lying and arrogant souls (adjectives can be added). Don’t these abject world leaders respond, regarding Ukraine, to something very simple: the coup d’état at 2014 with changes to electoral rules and relentless political persecution, deserving the support of a truly Democratic Nation? Is France democratic? Is Norway democratic? Is Japan democratic? (One detail, the 2 pusillamines above, an author of law books and a former terrorist lieutenant, have the same quality as the little comedian: bad character!)

Posted by: Willian in the unive | Dec 15 2023 1:07 utc | 178

Milites | Dec 15 2023 0:56 utc | 176
In that those that are neither racist nor religious are bigots? Yet those that believe totally in anglo supremacy, have never read nor traveled nor spent time with other cultures are not bigots?

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 15 2023 1:10 utc | 179

Will Orban do the right thing and leave the EU and kick the Danube institute out of Hungary ?
Or does he feel he is better off inside and causing problems for them ?
Or just plays both sides like Erdogan ?
Or actually really believes in the project, like all of the elites do who make an absolute fortune for themselves whilst in it ?
What is Orban’s game ? Because if you are a nationalist like he claims he is, the EU is definitely not the place for you.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 15 2023 1:13 utc | 180

What is Orban’s game ? Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 15 2023 1:13 utc | 179
I think Orban sees what could have been. Also, at the moment, Hungary’s economy I assume would be geared towards the EU. Hungary under Orban will likely ride this out as a neutral. Thats assuming Europe does not become a radioactive ash heap.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 15 2023 1:22 utc | 181

The Right is incompetent.
Posted by: Willian in the unive | Dec 15 2023 1:07 utc | 177
You have only scratched the surface.
It was pure Genius what they achieved since the 80’s and that took some brilliant minds and some serious planning and anything but incompetence, In order to hijack democracy to serve their own interests. Fool the public while They done it, whilst at the same time creating an army of ideologues and idiots.
That takes some doing. At least they proved beyond any doubt that corporatism is just the mirror image of communism.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 15 2023 1:32 utc | 182

Side note: Lt Generals would have maybe 12 aides accompanying them. If the newest patriot system deployed to Ukraine was just Khinzaled, I would really not want to be one of those lucky 13 usOfa officers just posted to Ukraine.
Posted by: paxmark1 | Dec 14 2023 20:02 utc | 127
Thank you for your comment, I think your argument is reasonable, I think the Russians will do what they think best when the time comes, and it doesn’t look too far off now.

Posted by: Bemildred | Dec 15 2023 1:33 utc | 183

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 15 2023 1:22 utc | 180
I kinda agree Peter it makes sense. Only problem is being on an EU convergence program which is the vehicle to get you to join the Euro. Is to give up your sovereignty.
As a nationalist there is no way he will do that. Unless, he is just another fake one?
He must realise the danger of the political opposition, who If they win one day will give up sovereignty in a heart beat.
I think the time is fast approaching that he will have to choose and show his true colours.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Dec 15 2023 1:41 utc | 184

Some videos for today.
Russian airborne troops storm enemy position near Rabotino (on the Zaporozhye front), two Ukrainian soldiers surrender:
https://rutube.ru/video/01833c8a4bfcb9b578278e54846778ba/
Russian Grad launcher pounds enemy position near Krasny Liman at night:
https://rutube.ru/video/cefca378e33aca8dfd4780de27c32e55/
Russian D-30 howitzer strikes enemy position near Andreevka (near Artemovsk):
https://rutube.ru/video/7e20d5c51eaaa686dd5336602fb0c038/
Russian ATGM launches at enemy firing position near Artemovsk:
https://rutube.ru/video/be7bbb365cd7cd1a3d699593978cc09f/

Posted by: Nate | Dec 15 2023 1:46 utc | 185

Echo Chamber | Dec 15 2023 1:41 utc | 183
That has been some of my thoughts to about Orban. I assume there is also a strong woke EU centric percentage within Hungary. If Orban has to choose, I think he will choose on the side of Russia but that would likely bring some unrest from the woke crowd so he will only choose when staying neutral is not an option. How accurate my thoughts will be in hindsight when it comes to Orban/Hungary I have no idea but that is what they are at the moment. We live in very uncertain times.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Dec 15 2023 1:56 utc | 186

Au contraire, the US goal, articulated early on by the incompetent SECDEF, was to weaken Russia. The UK goal was to steal as much money as possible. Mission accomplished.
I suppose now I will be told that Russia is stronger now then when this fiasco started. To that I say “sure Pal”.

Posted by: Realist | Dec 15 2023 2:17 utc | 187

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/12/accepting-defeat-in-uk
Yes I agree. “Dominion” is not foolish by any means, it just doesn’t debate frankly.
Patience, I have to walk slowly, treading carefully.
Brazil is a peculiar, poor, prejudiced country, with an uneducated Right wing accustomed to state allowances. The Country of Law Graduates!
There was a strange phenomenon during the left-wing governments, from 2003 to 2016, the social classes that rose in level, “straightened out”, and started to defend a right-wing program, which didn’t work.
The fact is that the economic debate does not follow academic “ethics”. How we produce, how we consume, how we exist materially, structurally organized, depends on who picks up the pen and the microphone.
The Academy does not respond.

Posted by: Willian in universe | Dec 15 2023 2:53 utc | 188

Well Mercouris beliebes that Zelenski was summoned to White House to be given bad news regarding war.
But I wonder if it may have been related to the impeachment – wanting to make sure their would not be any surprise new revelations coming from Ukraine – might make it more difficult to continue support.

Posted by: jared | Dec 15 2023 3:30 utc | 189

Thanks, karlof1 and Peter AU1 here.
I’m very glad both Australia and New Zealand made the right choice in the UNGA vote for a ceasefire. Back in the day, just before we left New Zealand, I took my kids on the bus into Auckland to see, first and last time, live and in person, part of a cricket match between the Aussies and the Hadlee/Bracewell team. The Aussies were fielding; one redheaded fielder standing close to where we were sitting, white sunblock plastering his nose. Hadlee was on the far side of the enclosure, signing autographs. Not a crowded stadium, just little Eden park.
Never did see who won; it was a test match, more than a single day to get an outcome. All the same, it’s as fresh as if I were just there. And so I’ll keep remembering we are here now as well. God bless you both. Summer down there, Peter; stay well.

Posted by: juliania | Dec 15 2023 3:45 utc | 190

jared | Dec 15 2023 3:30 utc | 188
We’ll know when the potential witnesses- if there are any still alive- start disappearing.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 15 2023 4:13 utc | 191

Posted by: Oliver Krug | Dec 14 2023 16:07 utc | 62

Well, in the end we learned it: Drones force the enemy into their shelters, where they become an easy victim of the advancing infantry:
“>https://lostarmour.info/news/nastuplenie-maryinka-rusich-army-4848

The Russians like learning things the hard way and making improvements in minor incremental stages. This has worked in the past for Russia so they persist with it. But it can do no harm to skip some of the minor incremental stages. For instance, the drones and artillery are supposed to drive the enemy into their shelters, which can then be mapped with exact co-ordinates. A day or more of observation of the enemy retreating to his lairs should suffice to map the location of all the lairs. Then on predetermined day even more drones and artillery can drive the enemy into their lairs yet again, only this time the lairs are hit with tulips, geraniums, TOS, FABs, etc. The defenders will then all be too dead or too shell shocked to resist advancing infantry, provided the enemy artillery and drones are sufficiently suppressed as well.
This method will work for the enemy positions in the countryside, the urban areas can be surrounded in this fashion and the urban areas simply starved out. Mapping out the enemy lairs in urban areas is difficult, plus ground penetrating FAB’s would be needed then. Its not impossible to map out the enemy lairs in an urban environment, but since every single building and basement could be an enemy lair it would be easier and safer to just surround the urban areas and then starve them out while shelling and droning them all the time. Minor urban areas can simply be leveled and then TOS’ed before infantry is sent in to mop up.

Posted by: gT | Dec 15 2023 4:15 utc | 192

Realist@186
It may seem counter-intuitive but Russia, for all of the immense sacrifices it has been forced to make is stronger.
It has flushed out the internal enemy, the large and influential oligarch linked Fifth Column, and it has purged itself of the illusions, fostered in the years before 2014, that the United States and its satraps were anything other than enemies dedicated to Russia’s destruction, the impoverishment of its people, the enslavement of its workers and the plundering of its resources.
Russia is much stronger- and its enemies, in every way, weakened. They gambled and they lost.

Posted by: bevin | Dec 15 2023 4:21 utc | 193

“…corporatism is just the mirror image of communism…” Echo Chamber@181
Just another libertarian or just another fool addicted to one liners of the sort that Daily Telegraph readers applaud?

Posted by: bevin | Dec 15 2023 4:26 utc | 194

@ bevin | Dec 15 2023 4:26 utc | 193 who wrote about Echo Chamber

Just another libertarian or just another fool addicted to one liners of the sort that Daily Telegraph readers applaud?

Could be both.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 15 2023 4:38 utc | 195

The US ramping up oil production to drive prices down and weaken Russia and its allies oil revenue.
Record-breaking oil production from the US has left OPEC with its lowest crude market share in nearly a decade
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/oil-prices-outlook-record-us-production-opec-market-share-energy-2023-12

Posted by: bored | Dec 15 2023 4:47 utc | 196

If the US can openly state that one of there own military is leading the show in Ukraine, is that not direct participation? Is the idiot really going to come into Ukraine and try and operate?
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 14 2023 20:21 utc | 132
This is nothing new. The US has had a three-star general coordinating with Ukraine since at least late last year. https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/11/14/us-quietly-announces-new-ukraine-command-with-3-star-general/ This new general – Lt. Gen. Antonio A. Aguto Jr., will still be based in Germany as his predecessor was. The difference being he is spending “significant” time in Ukraine, whatever that means.
Likely, it is for propaganda purposes – trying to spook the Russians and shore up allies simultaneously. But it’s not like the Ukrainians listen to the Americans, or the Americans are any kind of tactical or strategic geniuses. I don’t expect anything to change on the ground vis-à-vis Ukraine because of this.

Posted by: James M. | Dec 15 2023 5:31 utc | 197

Russian Telegram sources report that the Patriot system brought in Ukraine was destroyed.
The $1.2bn system was brought down by three Kinzhal missiles.
Russian Armed Forces struck the Patriot SAM.
It was in Zhytomyr, most likely destroyed the entire installation with a charging vehicle and 5 radars.
In Starokonstantinov there is another hit of “Kinzhal” in a bunker with NATO officers from Czech Republic and Poland, possibly from Germany.
So far this is all that is known for sure.
We are waiting for details tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.
@ukraine_watch

Posted by: rpst | Dec 15 2023 5:49 utc | 198

If I am following what is happening clearly, it looks like serious escalation by empire.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Dec 14 2023 20:21 utc | 132
I don’t know what you are following to arrive at that conclusion. Bellicose rhetoric from some Western sources is intertwined with the wringing of hands from others – the usual double game. Yes, possibly all the wringing of hands is a ruse, a feint, to somehow lull Russia into a false sense of security, while the rhetoric describing an inevitable victory in 2025 is to keep the faithful believing as they rebuild to escalate further, but I believe that Russia is not so stupid to believe any of what is stated and will be ready for anything, an insane escalation or otherwise. The realists in the West know it is back to the drawing board and it will take a decade before they can challenge Russia militarily. I agree with Mercouris – this is all about keeping Ukraine in the game until the election.

Posted by: Activist Potato | Dec 15 2023 5:56 utc | 199

Posted by: KitaySupporter | Dec 14 2023 15:27 utc | 54
Thank you KitaySupporter for that information.

Posted by: NaomiClareNL | Dec 15 2023 6:24 utc | 200