Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 14, 2023
Ukraine’s Demographics Dictate To End The Fight

The knives are out in the fight over the Ukrainian throne.

Various Ukrainian media (in Russian) report of plans to fire this or that general. Andrei Yermak, Zelenski's chief of office and the real power behind him, is currently in the U.S., allegedly to get the okay for firing the commander-in-chief of the Ukrainian army General Zaluzny. Other Ukrainian media are calling for Zaluzny to become the new president. Tomorrow CIA director Burns is expected to be in Kiev to tell Zelenski that his time is up and that he, Zelenski, will have to go.

Simplicius writes:

It appears obvious that two competing factions are trying to outdo each other in the sphere of Western media. Zaluzhny fired his shot in the unsanctioned Economist piece, and it would seem that Zelensky backers are doing their own parallel counter-work.

Larry Johnson reminds of the larger powers who are behind this fight:

One critical point I failed to make in yesterday’s article regarding the competing narratives regarding Zelensky and General Zalushny — it looks like the Brits are backing Zalushny while the CIA is trying to save Zelensky and dump Zalushny. I base that conclusion on the fact that the Economist, a British publication with close ties to MI-6, gave Zalushny the celebrity treatment, while the Washington Post, the go-to rag for the CIA, blamed Zalushny for Nord Stream.

Fun to watch, unless you are on the frontline.

There, things are getting worse for the Ukrainian army day by day.

The Ukraine wasted so many troops for impossible endeavors, to hold Bakhmut and in its the senseless 'counter-attack' against impregnable Russian lines, that it now lacks the troops to hold its defense lines.

Six weeks ago the former British defense minister Ben Wallace urged the Ukrainian government to draft more young people to fill the lines:

The average age of the soldiers at the front is over 40. I understand President Zelensky’s desire to preserve the young for the future, but the fact is that Russia is mobilising the whole country by stealth. Putin knows a pause will hand him time to build a new army. So just as Britain did in 1939 and 1941, perhaps it is time to reassess the scale of Ukraine’s mobilisation.

In a recent interview with the Ukrainian Pravda the Economist writer Shashank Joshi took a similar line:

Q: Are there resources to escalate trainings of Ukrainian soldiers abroad?

A: I would say that one of the biggest challenges, really, right now is, first of all, being able to mobilise more young Ukrainians, which, as you know, is a challenge, and a political issue and a social issue.

The ignorance displayed in those British statements becomes evident when one takes a look at the Demographics of Ukraine:


bigger

When the Soviet Union dissolved in the late 1980s the economy of Ukraine went into a tailspin. People were suddenly very poor with no jobs available for them. They thus refrained from having children. Others fled when the war started and some of the young men were killed in the war.

While there are now some three hundred thousand Ukrainian men at the age of 40 there are less than a hundred thousand men at the age of 25.

As there are so few men and women of that reproductive age there are also only few new babies. Becoming independent was a social-demographic catastrophe for Ukraine that will haunt the country for the next hundred years.

The Ukrainian army can not draft younger soldiers because younger people are simply not there. The few thousand who are still hanging out in Kiev are actually university students who's knowledge and service will be needed over the next decades. To draft them would kill all positive perspectives the Ukraine still might have.

After the Ukrainian government, on order of the U.S., failed to make peace with Russia, the Russian president Vladimir Putin ordered his troops to 'de-militarize and de-nazify' the Ukraine. It then was obvious that the attrition of the Ukrainian army, not taking its land, was the main Russian plan.

The Ukrainian political and military command failed to correctly adopt to that. Instead of going into defense mode behind holdable lines it ordered its troops to attack Russian defense lines again and again. In consequence Russian losses were minimal while the Ukrainian losses exceeded all imaginations.

That this would end badly was quite predictable.

It is over. The Ukraine, and the powers behind it, have lost the war.

The Russian forces are now doing probing attacks along the whole frontline. Whenever a local Ukrainian local defense line will fail, which is just a question of time, they will break through and cover new grounds. Those drops leaking through will become a stream, then a river and a flood that will push the Ukrainian army into a full retreat.

The government of Ukraine, and its backers, can still prevent that.

But it requires to acknowledge the facts on the ground.

Calling for more younger Ukrainian people to be drafted to die is the opposite of doing that.

Comments

Never Fear! David Cameron can continue to suck the teat of corruption no matter who is, ostensibly, in charge in The Ukraine. He has form.

Posted by: merkin scot | Nov 14 2023 10:29 utc | 1

Never Fear! David Cameron can continue to suck the teat of corruption no matter who is, ostensibly, in charge in The Ukraine. He has form.

Posted by: merkin scot | Nov 14 2023 10:29 utc | 2

“We will fight to the last { }.”
Why is it that when anybody else says this it is an obvious encouragement of genocide; but when we say the same it is a patriotic Huzzah?

Posted by: Butte Bill | Nov 14 2023 10:30 utc | 3

“We will fight to the last { }.”
Why is it that when anybody else says this it is an obvious encouragement of genocide; but when we say the same it is a patriotic Huzzah?

Posted by: Butte Bill | Nov 14 2023 10:30 utc | 4

That demographics picture looks very wrong. It originates from Ukraine via Wikipedia, and is based on 41 million people.
No way there are 41 million Ukrainians in Ukraine. If there are still are 20 million, that would be an accomplishment.

Posted by: marcel | Nov 14 2023 10:32 utc | 5

That demographics picture looks very wrong. It originates from Ukraine via Wikipedia, and is based on 41 million people.
No way there are 41 million Ukrainians in Ukraine. If there are still are 20 million, that would be an accomplishment.

Posted by: marcel | Nov 14 2023 10:32 utc | 6

All I want to know is when they trundle Tony Blair in to negotiate peace with the Russians on behalf of the Ukrainians …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 14 2023 10:33 utc | 7

All I want to know is when they trundle Tony Blair in to negotiate peace with the Russians on behalf of the Ukrainians …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 14 2023 10:33 utc | 8

My rough estimate of Population currently within Kiev controled territory
Starting point 34 million as of 2014
Less
5 million fled to Europe 2014-21
5 million fled to Europe 2022-23
3 million fled to Russia 2014-21
3 million fled to Russia 2022-23
7 million living in DPR, LPR, Crimea
————————
11 million

Posted by: Exile | Nov 14 2023 11:02 utc | 9

My rough estimate of Population currently within Kiev controled territory
Starting point 34 million as of 2014
Less
5 million fled to Europe 2014-21
5 million fled to Europe 2022-23
3 million fled to Russia 2014-21
3 million fled to Russia 2022-23
7 million living in DPR, LPR, Crimea
————————
11 million

Posted by: Exile | Nov 14 2023 11:02 utc | 10

IMHO, this will continue until the fall of “Berlin”. Most of the “Party” faithful will try to escape, but I don’t believe “Argentina” and “Brazil” will take them.
BTW, since “Berlin” is now de-centralized, and has boroughs all around the globe, it will take the “Red Army” quite some time until “Den Pobjedy”. Meanwhile, we denizens of the “Reich” just need to listen to “Dr. Goebbels” hold forth on the “Rundfunk”, and believe in “End Sieg”.
One thing I know for sure: This time, no “Albert Speer” will save the people from “Hitler’s” “Nero Order”.
Learn self-sufficiency on whatever land you posses. May God Bless You in the coming tribulation. 🙏

Posted by: OldFart | Nov 14 2023 11:06 utc | 11

IMHO, this will continue until the fall of “Berlin”. Most of the “Party” faithful will try to escape, but I don’t believe “Argentina” and “Brazil” will take them.
BTW, since “Berlin” is now de-centralized, and has boroughs all around the globe, it will take the “Red Army” quite some time until “Den Pobjedy”. Meanwhile, we denizens of the “Reich” just need to listen to “Dr. Goebbels” hold forth on the “Rundfunk”, and believe in “End Sieg”.
One thing I know for sure: This time, no “Albert Speer” will save the people from “Hitler’s” “Nero Order”.
Learn self-sufficiency on whatever land you posses. May God Bless You in the coming tribulation. 🙏

Posted by: OldFart | Nov 14 2023 11:06 utc | 12

Posted by: Exile | Nov 14 2023 11:02 utc | 5
How do you come up with 34 million in 2014? Another number I heard of was 45 million in 2014.

Posted by: NoName | Nov 14 2023 11:42 utc | 13

Posted by: Exile | Nov 14 2023 11:02 utc | 5
How do you come up with 34 million in 2014? Another number I heard of was 45 million in 2014.

Posted by: NoName | Nov 14 2023 11:42 utc | 14

34 Million ?
There hasn’t been a census for 25 years.

Posted by: Exile | Nov 14 2023 11:48 utc | 15

34 Million ?
There hasn’t been a census for 25 years.

Posted by: Exile | Nov 14 2023 11:48 utc | 16

I believe there are very few draft age men left in Ukraine. Not really in Ukrainian circles here in the US, but I know personally of 2 young men and their families, in my city who escaped Ukraine, one having to go through Russia to get to the US. This is probably the case in many US and European cities, not to mention Russia. I was in Odessa in 2012 and even then a lot of young locals wanted out of Ukraine. There literally is no one left there to fight on.

Posted by: Chicago Bob | Nov 14 2023 11:50 utc | 17

I believe there are very few draft age men left in Ukraine. Not really in Ukrainian circles here in the US, but I know personally of 2 young men and their families, in my city who escaped Ukraine, one having to go through Russia to get to the US. This is probably the case in many US and European cities, not to mention Russia. I was in Odessa in 2012 and even then a lot of young locals wanted out of Ukraine. There literally is no one left there to fight on.

Posted by: Chicago Bob | Nov 14 2023 11:50 utc | 18

It is difficult to see why the Americans would have any interest in allowing Zaluzhny to get the boot.
If I were Biden (Please, God, no!), I would want a prestigious figure that can sell to the country the humiliation that is coming to it, allowing me to wrap this up fast-ish and move on (to do damage somewhere else).
Giving Zaluzhny the boot means that the US would make it more difficult to replace Mr Cocaine. Arestovich isn’t there with Zaluzhny, actually he is nowhere near as far as traction on the populace is concerned.
My take: Yermak’s mission will fail, and Mr Burn’s mission will fail, too, at least for now.
Cocaine Guy isn’t ready to go, and it would not be easy to extract him alive even if he wanted. His own naysee people will take care he ends up like Qaddafi.

Posted by: Augusto Pi | Nov 14 2023 11:52 utc | 19

It is difficult to see why the Americans would have any interest in allowing Zaluzhny to get the boot.
If I were Biden (Please, God, no!), I would want a prestigious figure that can sell to the country the humiliation that is coming to it, allowing me to wrap this up fast-ish and move on (to do damage somewhere else).
Giving Zaluzhny the boot means that the US would make it more difficult to replace Mr Cocaine. Arestovich isn’t there with Zaluzhny, actually he is nowhere near as far as traction on the populace is concerned.
My take: Yermak’s mission will fail, and Mr Burn’s mission will fail, too, at least for now.
Cocaine Guy isn’t ready to go, and it would not be easy to extract him alive even if he wanted. His own naysee people will take care he ends up like Qaddafi.

Posted by: Augusto Pi | Nov 14 2023 11:52 utc | 20

My rough estimate of Population currently within Kiev controled territory
Starting point 34 million as of 2014
Less
5 million fled to Europe 2014-21
5 million fled to Europe 2022-23
3 million fled to Russia 2014-21
3 million fled to Russia 2022-23
7 million living in DPR, LPR, Crimea
————————
11 million
Posted by: Exile | Nov 14 2023 11:02 utc | 5
in the worst years, 90’s , ukraine lost 3 million
From 2001’s census 48 million to 2014 let’s say they lost another 3
So 2014 =45 million
even with your exits there would be 22 million.
But exit to the west is likely 8 million and 10 million to russia or russian held territories. That would give the 32 million some say are currently in kiev ukraine.
So no less than 22, no more than 32, certainly not 11
Just to prove a point, if it was 11 million they would have had to draft university students just to have the troops they have used. Furthermore they could not have spared a significant portion of the population from any casualties in family and friends.
20-30 I think very few outside those in certain positions know any better.

Posted by: newbie | Nov 14 2023 11:52 utc | 21

My rough estimate of Population currently within Kiev controled territory
Starting point 34 million as of 2014
Less
5 million fled to Europe 2014-21
5 million fled to Europe 2022-23
3 million fled to Russia 2014-21
3 million fled to Russia 2022-23
7 million living in DPR, LPR, Crimea
————————
11 million
Posted by: Exile | Nov 14 2023 11:02 utc | 5
in the worst years, 90’s , ukraine lost 3 million
From 2001’s census 48 million to 2014 let’s say they lost another 3
So 2014 =45 million
even with your exits there would be 22 million.
But exit to the west is likely 8 million and 10 million to russia or russian held territories. That would give the 32 million some say are currently in kiev ukraine.
So no less than 22, no more than 32, certainly not 11
Just to prove a point, if it was 11 million they would have had to draft university students just to have the troops they have used. Furthermore they could not have spared a significant portion of the population from any casualties in family and friends.
20-30 I think very few outside those in certain positions know any better.

Posted by: newbie | Nov 14 2023 11:52 utc | 22

Ukrainian demographics dictate that the fight must continue on the part of Russia in the most resolute fashion to finish the job. The struggle is not just on a military level, but also on a political one, where the Russian government is prone to blunders. It would be beneficial for those Ukrainians who are out of the freak show and cannot be press-ganged by the Ukro-Gestapo as it would free the country of the horrific Maidan regime.
Of course, the horror is for those still to be drafted or already on the front and the citizenry still in the country. But the defeat of the Anglo-American empire in Ukraine and the obliteration of the local fascist comprador regime are tasks of paramount importance. It would be best for said citizens to aid in hastening this desired goal, although, apart from fascist loyalists, no few appear resigned to a grim fate.
Obviously, b understands this, but it is understandably prudent for the image of the blog to promote a “peace right now” message. It is humane and no one can accuse such a messenger of extreme partisanship or cruelty.

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 11:52 utc | 23

Ukrainian demographics dictate that the fight must continue on the part of Russia in the most resolute fashion to finish the job. The struggle is not just on a military level, but also on a political one, where the Russian government is prone to blunders. It would be beneficial for those Ukrainians who are out of the freak show and cannot be press-ganged by the Ukro-Gestapo as it would free the country of the horrific Maidan regime.
Of course, the horror is for those still to be drafted or already on the front and the citizenry still in the country. But the defeat of the Anglo-American empire in Ukraine and the obliteration of the local fascist comprador regime are tasks of paramount importance. It would be best for said citizens to aid in hastening this desired goal, although, apart from fascist loyalists, no few appear resigned to a grim fate.
Obviously, b understands this, but it is understandably prudent for the image of the blog to promote a “peace right now” message. It is humane and no one can accuse such a messenger of extreme partisanship or cruelty.

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 11:52 utc | 24

Obviously, b understands this, but it is understandably prudent for the image of the blog to promote a “peace right now” message. It is humane and no one can accuse such a messenger of extreme partisanship or cruelty.
Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 11:52 utc | 12
Cruelty? there is plenty but on the other side, when the peace talks in march 2022 were torpedoed I, and many others, said “The US will fight the russians to the last ukranian…” it was a bad taste (but true) “joke” then, it is a tragedy now.
As for partisanship, I would say the biggest one you can find here are those that take badly to the way nato is dead set on starting WWIII in ukraine or elsewhere. We had other plans and the end of the world would spoil most of them.

Posted by: newbie | Nov 14 2023 12:01 utc | 25

Obviously, b understands this, but it is understandably prudent for the image of the blog to promote a “peace right now” message. It is humane and no one can accuse such a messenger of extreme partisanship or cruelty.
Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 11:52 utc | 12
Cruelty? there is plenty but on the other side, when the peace talks in march 2022 were torpedoed I, and many others, said “The US will fight the russians to the last ukranian…” it was a bad taste (but true) “joke” then, it is a tragedy now.
As for partisanship, I would say the biggest one you can find here are those that take badly to the way nato is dead set on starting WWIII in ukraine or elsewhere. We had other plans and the end of the world would spoil most of them.

Posted by: newbie | Nov 14 2023 12:01 utc | 26

That demographics pyramid looks ready to detach from the x-axis completely. The signs of impending doom for the Ukraine are coming from all angles. Even the most stubborn NAFO trolls will soon have to admit there is no future for the nation of their beloved Nazis.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 14 2023 12:07 utc | 27

That demographics pyramid looks ready to detach from the x-axis completely. The signs of impending doom for the Ukraine are coming from all angles. Even the most stubborn NAFO trolls will soon have to admit there is no future for the nation of their beloved Nazis.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 14 2023 12:07 utc | 28

That demographics pyramid looks ready to detach from the x-axis completely. The signs of impending doom for the Ukraine are coming from all angles. Even the most stubborn NAFO trolls will soon have to admit there is no future for the nation of their beloved Nazis.
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 14 2023 12:07 utc | 14

Well, with patriots and women like these…

OUCH: Ukrainian influencer tells Ukrainian women not to worry that many men died. They can marry Europeans and Americans!
Problem solved …

https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1723382422715183443

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 14 2023 12:19 utc | 29

That demographics pyramid looks ready to detach from the x-axis completely. The signs of impending doom for the Ukraine are coming from all angles. Even the most stubborn NAFO trolls will soon have to admit there is no future for the nation of their beloved Nazis.
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 14 2023 12:07 utc | 14

Well, with patriots and women like these…

OUCH: Ukrainian influencer tells Ukrainian women not to worry that many men died. They can marry Europeans and Americans!
Problem solved …

https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1723382422715183443

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 14 2023 12:19 utc | 30

Everywhere I am reading that Ukraine’s army is soon to collapse, but I can’t see that. They still have enough troops on all frontlines to even conduct more or less offensive operations and the average Ukrainian soldier still seems to be willing to fight. I do understand that huge offensive operations are impossible for both sides in this kind of war,but when, if at all, is this collapse going to happen?

Posted by: Ernesto | Nov 14 2023 12:23 utc | 31

Everywhere I am reading that Ukraine’s army is soon to collapse, but I can’t see that. They still have enough troops on all frontlines to even conduct more or less offensive operations and the average Ukrainian soldier still seems to be willing to fight. I do understand that huge offensive operations are impossible for both sides in this kind of war,but when, if at all, is this collapse going to happen?

Posted by: Ernesto | Nov 14 2023 12:23 utc | 32

Wait, what?
Are you telling me that military-aged men in universities are still being exempted from military service even as Ukraine conscripts old men, amputees, and women???
War is a class project. We know that. But never have I seem it so blatantly expressed as this. I wonder how quickly public support for the war would collapse if the future professional managerial class currently living the college life were asked to put their own bodies on the line.

Posted by: GuardYourHumanity | Nov 14 2023 12:41 utc | 33

Wait, what?
Are you telling me that military-aged men in universities are still being exempted from military service even as Ukraine conscripts old men, amputees, and women???
War is a class project. We know that. But never have I seem it so blatantly expressed as this. I wonder how quickly public support for the war would collapse if the future professional managerial class currently living the college life were asked to put their own bodies on the line.

Posted by: GuardYourHumanity | Nov 14 2023 12:41 utc | 34

Ukraine is a democracy, and its democratically elected leaders have chosen to ruin it. If that is the case, then the people should share their fate with the country.

Posted by: CIROC | Nov 14 2023 12:41 utc | 35

Ukraine is a democracy, and its democratically elected leaders have chosen to ruin it. If that is the case, then the people should share their fate with the country.

Posted by: CIROC | Nov 14 2023 12:41 utc | 36

This is pathetic deck chair rearranging for the purpose of continued delusion of us Collective Wasters. In our unsinkable Titanic, delusional Rules Based Fascist Garden.
The changes in the British Government are obviously a recognition that their decades of plans have failed, AGAIN.
The proxy nazi/banderite army has been destroyed , only the final generation of tweenies raised like Hitler youth remain. All they know is fairytales and racist songs and playing at soldiers. The first loud bang, the first blood, the first reality will send them crying for their banderite sieg heiling mothers, these fat lipped, bottle blonde whores who bought into the lies of their being pure blooded mothers expecting some kept princess lives. ‘elensky cannot remain as Hitler couldn’t and neither can the invisible General , has he even been on live tv with a real journalist and audience? Or can any of the other faces of Banderism.
They will remain in history only as icons like Hitler and Bandera are and the massive graveyards built as some future monuments to build fairytales around for another attempt. Because those People are Implacable and proudly so !
The borderlands will be repopulated by Russians, Asians, Africans, within a hundred years. The fertile land productive again – by anyone except the one people who have been trying to get it for 700 years – the Shapeshifting Khazars.
That is why our British government is being rearranged (the European yes men and women will follow soon), all involved with the calamity will be shuffled off stage. Sunak only remains for his value in trying to keep Modi’s India on side In the wider futile war of the death of the unipolar imperium. As soon as that also fails, which it will, because the States which make up India will not follow Modi or his Gujarat hindutvas and that will lead to the dissolution of that made up country to its ancient regional nations. Possibly a civil war scenario.
The Imperial Nazis never expected the Ukrops and their mercenary natzios to actually invade Russia – the plan was to destroy Russia by economic warfare. To separate it from the global south and Asia Pacific. To break it up with fifth columnists and Color agitation.
That has failed spectacularly and the repeated sanctions turned upto rock and roll absurd full volume 11 have failed too. With massive blowback. The US credit card absurdly maxed out needing an absurd amount of extra money printing to pay anyone holding any Treasuries. Totally devaluing the foreign countries holding them as reserve currency.
All the European economies and all the others enrolled in that posse are destroyed , the collective west turned to waste. Only the bankers hang on by their fingernails. Beating and murdering the Palestinians in their last hope of remaining in some strategic geography.
The Russian economy instead of being in ‘taters’ is booming and will carry on doing so spectacularly, just like the postwar US economy did – having made all the gains while Europe was the one living on po-taters for decades after.
The sacrifice of the nearly 30 million Soviets has not been allowed to be in vain.
The centuries long exploited non European World has coalesced – except for some captured satraps. The Japanese, the long subdued subcontinentals, some African and The Five Eyes and the Imaginary country in the Levant.
That is the truth of history which can no longer be concealed any more after a thousand years.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 14 2023 12:54 utc | 37

This is pathetic deck chair rearranging for the purpose of continued delusion of us Collective Wasters. In our unsinkable Titanic, delusional Rules Based Fascist Garden.
The changes in the British Government are obviously a recognition that their decades of plans have failed, AGAIN.
The proxy nazi/banderite army has been destroyed , only the final generation of tweenies raised like Hitler youth remain. All they know is fairytales and racist songs and playing at soldiers. The first loud bang, the first blood, the first reality will send them crying for their banderite sieg heiling mothers, these fat lipped, bottle blonde whores who bought into the lies of their being pure blooded mothers expecting some kept princess lives. ‘elensky cannot remain as Hitler couldn’t and neither can the invisible General , has he even been on live tv with a real journalist and audience? Or can any of the other faces of Banderism.
They will remain in history only as icons like Hitler and Bandera are and the massive graveyards built as some future monuments to build fairytales around for another attempt. Because those People are Implacable and proudly so !
The borderlands will be repopulated by Russians, Asians, Africans, within a hundred years. The fertile land productive again – by anyone except the one people who have been trying to get it for 700 years – the Shapeshifting Khazars.
That is why our British government is being rearranged (the European yes men and women will follow soon), all involved with the calamity will be shuffled off stage. Sunak only remains for his value in trying to keep Modi’s India on side In the wider futile war of the death of the unipolar imperium. As soon as that also fails, which it will, because the States which make up India will not follow Modi or his Gujarat hindutvas and that will lead to the dissolution of that made up country to its ancient regional nations. Possibly a civil war scenario.
The Imperial Nazis never expected the Ukrops and their mercenary natzios to actually invade Russia – the plan was to destroy Russia by economic warfare. To separate it from the global south and Asia Pacific. To break it up with fifth columnists and Color agitation.
That has failed spectacularly and the repeated sanctions turned upto rock and roll absurd full volume 11 have failed too. With massive blowback. The US credit card absurdly maxed out needing an absurd amount of extra money printing to pay anyone holding any Treasuries. Totally devaluing the foreign countries holding them as reserve currency.
All the European economies and all the others enrolled in that posse are destroyed , the collective west turned to waste. Only the bankers hang on by their fingernails. Beating and murdering the Palestinians in their last hope of remaining in some strategic geography.
The Russian economy instead of being in ‘taters’ is booming and will carry on doing so spectacularly, just like the postwar US economy did – having made all the gains while Europe was the one living on po-taters for decades after.
The sacrifice of the nearly 30 million Soviets has not been allowed to be in vain.
The centuries long exploited non European World has coalesced – except for some captured satraps. The Japanese, the long subdued subcontinentals, some African and The Five Eyes and the Imaginary country in the Levant.
That is the truth of history which can no longer be concealed any more after a thousand years.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 14 2023 12:54 utc | 38

The demographic graph is not showing the half a million plus men killed. It is too symmetrical unless an equal number of women have died or left the country.
Also, why are there more older women than men? This can’t be explained by the war as this age group is too old for combat.
I think it would be too difficult to conduct a consensual during a hot war. Anyway Ukraine has been hiding its casualties.

Posted by: Moses22 | Nov 14 2023 13:25 utc | 39

The demographic graph is not showing the half a million plus men killed. It is too symmetrical unless an equal number of women have died or left the country.
Also, why are there more older women than men? This can’t be explained by the war as this age group is too old for combat.
I think it would be too difficult to conduct a consensual during a hot war. Anyway Ukraine has been hiding its casualties.

Posted by: Moses22 | Nov 14 2023 13:25 utc | 40

> Also, why are there more older women than men? This can’t be explained by the war as this age group is too old for combat.
Alcoholism, dangerous jobs, men just die earlier.

Posted by: SIsisi | Nov 14 2023 13:26 utc | 41

> Also, why are there more older women than men? This can’t be explained by the war as this age group is too old for combat.
Alcoholism, dangerous jobs, men just die earlier.

Posted by: SIsisi | Nov 14 2023 13:26 utc | 42

@Constantine | 12
This is a cruel take but I think sadly the correct one. It’s not just that an immediate peace outcome might be disadvantageous for Russia / the Global South, if the same fanatics in Ukraine and their backers are somehow allowed to reconstitute themselves. It might be better to wait until the country actually collapses or some military coup makes Restukraine into Belarus version 2.
Also while this conflict continues Western financial systems are under duress, as is the western political order, as is the military might our transatlantic elites can project. I doubt that such an effective upring in the Middle East would have been possible 2 years ago. As long as we all don’t die in nuclear fireballs of WW3 keeping the pressure going is doing wonders for the demise of our own cruel political system in the West.
The collapse of the imperial order cannot come soon enough.

Posted by: Roland | Nov 14 2023 13:28 utc | 43

@Constantine | 12
This is a cruel take but I think sadly the correct one. It’s not just that an immediate peace outcome might be disadvantageous for Russia / the Global South, if the same fanatics in Ukraine and their backers are somehow allowed to reconstitute themselves. It might be better to wait until the country actually collapses or some military coup makes Restukraine into Belarus version 2.
Also while this conflict continues Western financial systems are under duress, as is the western political order, as is the military might our transatlantic elites can project. I doubt that such an effective upring in the Middle East would have been possible 2 years ago. As long as we all don’t die in nuclear fireballs of WW3 keeping the pressure going is doing wonders for the demise of our own cruel political system in the West.
The collapse of the imperial order cannot come soon enough.

Posted by: Roland | Nov 14 2023 13:28 utc | 44

Posted by: newbie | Nov 14 2023 12:01 utc | 13
Obviously, you didn’t read my otherwise short post. Humanitarianism and cruelty are in the optics and optics appear to be the reason for b’s very understandandable advocation for peace. There should be no compromise with the Maidanist regime or any NATO outfit at all in what used to be Ukraine in 2014.

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 13:28 utc | 45

Posted by: newbie | Nov 14 2023 12:01 utc | 13
Obviously, you didn’t read my otherwise short post. Humanitarianism and cruelty are in the optics and optics appear to be the reason for b’s very understandandable advocation for peace. There should be no compromise with the Maidanist regime or any NATO outfit at all in what used to be Ukraine in 2014.

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 13:28 utc | 46

Yes. Urine is caught between hammer and anvil.
The anvil is the depletion of forces that are attritted any time they try to do anything offensive.
The hammer is the mobilization of the only reserve left – male uni students. Their mobilization will most likely collapse the country in a new Maidan, and the ukropigs know it.
Thing is, the AFUcks cannot get stronger demographically as time goes on – only weaker. There is no magic pill to make their army more numerous or more infused with tech, so the entropy is inevitable. As the war goes on, people also continue to trickle out of the country – not just because of the hunt for men, but generally because of the economic situation and grim prospects.

Posted by: OmegaPsi | Nov 14 2023 13:29 utc | 47

Yes. Urine is caught between hammer and anvil.
The anvil is the depletion of forces that are attritted any time they try to do anything offensive.
The hammer is the mobilization of the only reserve left – male uni students. Their mobilization will most likely collapse the country in a new Maidan, and the ukropigs know it.
Thing is, the AFUcks cannot get stronger demographically as time goes on – only weaker. There is no magic pill to make their army more numerous or more infused with tech, so the entropy is inevitable. As the war goes on, people also continue to trickle out of the country – not just because of the hunt for men, but generally because of the economic situation and grim prospects.

Posted by: OmegaPsi | Nov 14 2023 13:29 utc | 48

That demographics pyramid looks ready to detach from the x-axis completely. The signs of impending doom for the Ukraine are coming from all angles. Even the most stubborn NAFO trolls will soon have to admit there is no future for the nation of their beloved Nazis.
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 14 2023 12:07 utc | 14
Well, with patriots and women like these…
OUCH: Ukrainian influencer tells Ukrainian women not to worry that many men died. They can marry Europeans and Americans!
Problem solved …
https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1723382422715183443
Dumb ass Ukrainians fighting for nothing but to be an anglo vassal. They all fought for nothing now there women will give em the reward they deserve. Abandonment. Hope it was worth morons!

Posted by: Jklp1976 | Nov 14 2023 13:34 utc | 49

That demographics pyramid looks ready to detach from the x-axis completely. The signs of impending doom for the Ukraine are coming from all angles. Even the most stubborn NAFO trolls will soon have to admit there is no future for the nation of their beloved Nazis.
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 14 2023 12:07 utc | 14
Well, with patriots and women like these…
OUCH: Ukrainian influencer tells Ukrainian women not to worry that many men died. They can marry Europeans and Americans!
Problem solved …
https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1723382422715183443
Dumb ass Ukrainians fighting for nothing but to be an anglo vassal. They all fought for nothing now there women will give em the reward they deserve. Abandonment. Hope it was worth morons!

Posted by: Jklp1976 | Nov 14 2023 13:34 utc | 50

Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 14 2023 12:54 utc | 19
Agreed on much except the part about “shapeshifting Khazars”. Not only it is historically bollocks (most of the east European Jews come from local stock of converts, mainly Germanic and Slavic), but it would be very beneficial if Jewish immigrants with skills, ability and the will to improve things moved in to help develop the land.
Obviously, those of anti-Zionist persuasion, like the Israelis who have been moving in Germany for some time, would be the best candidates, but some others could do as well. After all, Zionism was instilled in most of them and co-existing with so many other communities in a common struggle to build a common future would help them shed the racist grip of that detestable ideology.
Once again, the prevalence of Zionism in the Anglosphere isn’t a product of some mythical Jewish domination, but of the blatant reflection of Anglo-American supremacism and imperialism in that ideology. That’s why the first duty of all Zionists in the Anglosphere is to promote the primacy of the Homo Angloamericanus with its attendant imperialist justification and then add Zionism as a complementary addition.

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 13:42 utc | 51

Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 14 2023 12:54 utc | 19
Agreed on much except the part about “shapeshifting Khazars”. Not only it is historically bollocks (most of the east European Jews come from local stock of converts, mainly Germanic and Slavic), but it would be very beneficial if Jewish immigrants with skills, ability and the will to improve things moved in to help develop the land.
Obviously, those of anti-Zionist persuasion, like the Israelis who have been moving in Germany for some time, would be the best candidates, but some others could do as well. After all, Zionism was instilled in most of them and co-existing with so many other communities in a common struggle to build a common future would help them shed the racist grip of that detestable ideology.
Once again, the prevalence of Zionism in the Anglosphere isn’t a product of some mythical Jewish domination, but of the blatant reflection of Anglo-American supremacism and imperialism in that ideology. That’s why the first duty of all Zionists in the Anglosphere is to promote the primacy of the Homo Angloamericanus with its attendant imperialist justification and then add Zionism as a complementary addition.

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 13:42 utc | 52

“The average age of the soldiers at the front is over 40. I understand President Zelensky’s desire to preserve the young for the future, but the fact is that Russia is mobilising the whole country by stealth. Putin knows a pause will hand him time to build a new army. So just as Britain did in 1939 and 1941, perhaps it is time to reassess the scale of Ukraine’s mobilisation.”
There is so much disinformation and anal extraction in Ben Wallace’s piece it’s hard to know where to start unpacking it. How do you mobilize Russia by stealth? WTF? Is it all the volunteers that made it stealthy? And just who should reassess the scale of 404’s mobilization? Certainly not 404. And Zelensky is preserving the young for the future? What future? As Roland 22 said, “The collapse of the imperial order cannot come soon enough.” Amen.

Posted by: Mike R | Nov 14 2023 13:48 utc | 53

“The average age of the soldiers at the front is over 40. I understand President Zelensky’s desire to preserve the young for the future, but the fact is that Russia is mobilising the whole country by stealth. Putin knows a pause will hand him time to build a new army. So just as Britain did in 1939 and 1941, perhaps it is time to reassess the scale of Ukraine’s mobilisation.”
There is so much disinformation and anal extraction in Ben Wallace’s piece it’s hard to know where to start unpacking it. How do you mobilize Russia by stealth? WTF? Is it all the volunteers that made it stealthy? And just who should reassess the scale of 404’s mobilization? Certainly not 404. And Zelensky is preserving the young for the future? What future? As Roland 22 said, “The collapse of the imperial order cannot come soon enough.” Amen.

Posted by: Mike R | Nov 14 2023 13:48 utc | 54

Who would have thought that
“They will fight to the last man”
Was the most accurate propaganda meme out of all this debacle
Lol

Posted by: Comandante | Nov 14 2023 13:51 utc | 55

Who would have thought that
“They will fight to the last man”
Was the most accurate propaganda meme out of all this debacle
Lol

Posted by: Comandante | Nov 14 2023 13:51 utc | 56

Posted by: Roland | Nov 14 2023 13:28 utc | 22
Agree Roland. The US empire is bleeding out. Russia was the first to know, then China, now the global majority, Europe is sensing it. Americans will be the last to realize it and live it, starting with the peons, eventually working up to the elites.
Russia, China, Iran, are in synch: death by 1000 cuts, go slow. Hezbollah is on board.

Posted by: migueljose | Nov 14 2023 13:57 utc | 57

Posted by: Roland | Nov 14 2023 13:28 utc | 22
Agree Roland. The US empire is bleeding out. Russia was the first to know, then China, now the global majority, Europe is sensing it. Americans will be the last to realize it and live it, starting with the peons, eventually working up to the elites.
Russia, China, Iran, are in synch: death by 1000 cuts, go slow. Hezbollah is on board.

Posted by: migueljose | Nov 14 2023 13:57 utc | 58

A world year book gave the population of Ukraine at independence in 1991 at 52 million.
Destruction of the economy and society followed. Non stop looting of the economy by Kolomoisky and his ilk. De industrialisation, mass unemployment, poverty, destitution, hopelessness. Alcohol, drugs, prostitution, organised crime and corrupt political gangsterism. Collapse of the health system. Plummeting life expectancy, rising infant mortality. Deaths from illnesses like TB rocketing.
By 2010, the population had fallen to 38 million, with a further 7.5 million working abroad, scratching a living picking cabbages in Poland, or working as the ubiquitous “Natasha” prostitutes.
This was pre Maidan and prewar. Average income per head was put at $2,000. This was mid way between Egypt ($2,200) and Syria ($1,800.) Ukraine was already a failed state and the poorest country in Europe.
Following Maidan, Ukraine lost Crimea and the Donbas, 2.5 million and 5 million.
Since 2022, it has also lost 2 further oblast regions adjoining the Black Sea, with their populations. Ukraine military fatalities in the war have been credibly estimated at 300-400,000. Millions have fled as refugees, to the EU and Russia. Different figures have been given, but 8 million is a conservative estimate.
The population currently controlled by the Kiev regime is under 20 million. The best estimate I have seen is 18 million, but it could be lower.

Posted by: anon | Nov 14 2023 14:02 utc | 59

A world year book gave the population of Ukraine at independence in 1991 at 52 million.
Destruction of the economy and society followed. Non stop looting of the economy by Kolomoisky and his ilk. De industrialisation, mass unemployment, poverty, destitution, hopelessness. Alcohol, drugs, prostitution, organised crime and corrupt political gangsterism. Collapse of the health system. Plummeting life expectancy, rising infant mortality. Deaths from illnesses like TB rocketing.
By 2010, the population had fallen to 38 million, with a further 7.5 million working abroad, scratching a living picking cabbages in Poland, or working as the ubiquitous “Natasha” prostitutes.
This was pre Maidan and prewar. Average income per head was put at $2,000. This was mid way between Egypt ($2,200) and Syria ($1,800.) Ukraine was already a failed state and the poorest country in Europe.
Following Maidan, Ukraine lost Crimea and the Donbas, 2.5 million and 5 million.
Since 2022, it has also lost 2 further oblast regions adjoining the Black Sea, with their populations. Ukraine military fatalities in the war have been credibly estimated at 300-400,000. Millions have fled as refugees, to the EU and Russia. Different figures have been given, but 8 million is a conservative estimate.
The population currently controlled by the Kiev regime is under 20 million. The best estimate I have seen is 18 million, but it could be lower.

Posted by: anon | Nov 14 2023 14:02 utc | 60

Posted by: Jklp1976 | Nov 14 2023 13:34 utc | 25
I strongly disagree with the premise of your post that somehow the Ukrainians, most of whom are very similar to the people of Russia, especially the Slavic element, are exceptionally idiotic. The attraction of western soft power for folks who have been subjected to horrific social degradation since the 90s is to be found throughout eastern Europe and the former USSR.
One can attend to the mental damage that the Russiand themselves suffered in the post-Soviet era. Leaving aside the liberal trash, we can find so many folks in Russia eager to become accepted by the westerners and that includes many of the so-called conservatives. The attraction of a culturally liberal lifestyle and severe inferiority complexes caused that. It didn’t help that the Soviet leadership, unlike the current Chinese one, was unable to distinguish between a certain level of affluence and unfettered consumerism (“capitalist degeneracy”).
As it happens, it took years of abuse, then the entire 2022 of visceral neo-Hitlerite propaganda for many Russians, the liberal-lite folks who support the ruling party, on the part of the collective west to disabuse those champs of their delusions. And if that was the case for Russia, one can imagine the difficulty of the Ukrainians to oppose the propaganda onslaught of the west and its compradores.
This has been the case for the entire eastern European region, even beyond. Witness how the Finns, whose resolute neutrality throughout the Cold War offered only benefits to them, abandoned that and charged headlong into an imperialist alliance, harming grievously their national interests simply because they adopted the mentality of the superior western liberal. And this is Finland we’re talking about, a prosperous country and nation that had no reason to go full lickspittle of the globalist Anglo-American empire. Yet here we are.
So it’s unjust to treat most of the Ukrainians as braindead idiots who casually opted for national suicide. Liberal propaganda gave them false hope for a better future and it was backed by brutal fascist goons who dealt summarily with those who opposed this lunacy.

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 14:07 utc | 61

Posted by: Jklp1976 | Nov 14 2023 13:34 utc | 25
I strongly disagree with the premise of your post that somehow the Ukrainians, most of whom are very similar to the people of Russia, especially the Slavic element, are exceptionally idiotic. The attraction of western soft power for folks who have been subjected to horrific social degradation since the 90s is to be found throughout eastern Europe and the former USSR.
One can attend to the mental damage that the Russiand themselves suffered in the post-Soviet era. Leaving aside the liberal trash, we can find so many folks in Russia eager to become accepted by the westerners and that includes many of the so-called conservatives. The attraction of a culturally liberal lifestyle and severe inferiority complexes caused that. It didn’t help that the Soviet leadership, unlike the current Chinese one, was unable to distinguish between a certain level of affluence and unfettered consumerism (“capitalist degeneracy”).
As it happens, it took years of abuse, then the entire 2022 of visceral neo-Hitlerite propaganda for many Russians, the liberal-lite folks who support the ruling party, on the part of the collective west to disabuse those champs of their delusions. And if that was the case for Russia, one can imagine the difficulty of the Ukrainians to oppose the propaganda onslaught of the west and its compradores.
This has been the case for the entire eastern European region, even beyond. Witness how the Finns, whose resolute neutrality throughout the Cold War offered only benefits to them, abandoned that and charged headlong into an imperialist alliance, harming grievously their national interests simply because they adopted the mentality of the superior western liberal. And this is Finland we’re talking about, a prosperous country and nation that had no reason to go full lickspittle of the globalist Anglo-American empire. Yet here we are.
So it’s unjust to treat most of the Ukrainians as braindead idiots who casually opted for national suicide. Liberal propaganda gave them false hope for a better future and it was backed by brutal fascist goons who dealt summarily with those who opposed this lunacy.

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 14:07 utc | 62

Unless we are talking about “firing squad” -type dismissal,
what difference would it make to Zelensky or Zaluzny or whoever, if they are forced to step-down? It would be early retirement to a life of leisure, me thinks.
The greater importance of the step (which is almost inevitable) given circumstances is that
it will maintain Ukraine’s lack of direction ensure that it is reliably in control of the puppet masters – empire of chaos. If this did not happen, there might be formation of organic intelligence and organization in Ukraine where it might develop a sense of self-interest and objectives and schemes of it’s own – with consequences.
This is 2nd step on path to Fail State – the first being the original coup. If the west can’t have it, no body will.

Posted by: jared | Nov 14 2023 14:23 utc | 63

Unless we are talking about “firing squad” -type dismissal,
what difference would it make to Zelensky or Zaluzny or whoever, if they are forced to step-down? It would be early retirement to a life of leisure, me thinks.
The greater importance of the step (which is almost inevitable) given circumstances is that
it will maintain Ukraine’s lack of direction ensure that it is reliably in control of the puppet masters – empire of chaos. If this did not happen, there might be formation of organic intelligence and organization in Ukraine where it might develop a sense of self-interest and objectives and schemes of it’s own – with consequences.
This is 2nd step on path to Fail State – the first being the original coup. If the west can’t have it, no body will.

Posted by: jared | Nov 14 2023 14:23 utc | 64

DunGroanin 19
Maybe empire plan A , breaking Russia financially, failed spectacularly because of Putin’s personal connection with the Rissian Jewish community.
And the blowback from that is felt in Palestine rather than Russia, because those Jewish millionaires could still pull the plug on Russian finances , shoukd Putin swing a Kinzal at Israel for genociding Palestinians.
Actions have consequences. When the economy is squeezed , the worst pinch hits the poorest.
Having said that, the Muslim world can come to understand that it can noonger shelter under the wing of USUKIS or Russia / China. It will have to stand on its own 2 feet in order to eradicate the Zionist Antichrist.
USUKIS political success in re-establishing far right politics, is balanced by its dramatic loss of face in the center of RoW over Ukraine and Gaza. Islam’s loss of reliance on self- interested superpowers means they will have to trust in Allah.
This is the sure-footed path to success. USUKIS can keep its Woke Fertility Goddesses and Viking piracy and shove them into their over-heated, AI, digital plant rooms with little flashing green and red LED eyes.

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 14 2023 14:26 utc | 65

DunGroanin 19
Maybe empire plan A , breaking Russia financially, failed spectacularly because of Putin’s personal connection with the Rissian Jewish community.
And the blowback from that is felt in Palestine rather than Russia, because those Jewish millionaires could still pull the plug on Russian finances , shoukd Putin swing a Kinzal at Israel for genociding Palestinians.
Actions have consequences. When the economy is squeezed , the worst pinch hits the poorest.
Having said that, the Muslim world can come to understand that it can noonger shelter under the wing of USUKIS or Russia / China. It will have to stand on its own 2 feet in order to eradicate the Zionist Antichrist.
USUKIS political success in re-establishing far right politics, is balanced by its dramatic loss of face in the center of RoW over Ukraine and Gaza. Islam’s loss of reliance on self- interested superpowers means they will have to trust in Allah.
This is the sure-footed path to success. USUKIS can keep its Woke Fertility Goddesses and Viking piracy and shove them into their over-heated, AI, digital plant rooms with little flashing green and red LED eyes.

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 14 2023 14:26 utc | 66

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 14:07 utc
The fact that eastern Europeans can’t see through propaganda and lies is revealing. Than again, they opted to join the 4th reich in brussels and showed their true colors during covid and through their censorship means they are unthinking vassals, past present and future. Joined up to fight so their children can worship the rainbow flag and get rid of their currency to join the other authoritarian shits in brussels, dc and london. Guess they would be susceptible to idiotic propaganda and lies at baseline. All for the glory of nothingness.

Posted by: Jklp1976 | Nov 14 2023 14:29 utc | 67

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 14:07 utc
The fact that eastern Europeans can’t see through propaganda and lies is revealing. Than again, they opted to join the 4th reich in brussels and showed their true colors during covid and through their censorship means they are unthinking vassals, past present and future. Joined up to fight so their children can worship the rainbow flag and get rid of their currency to join the other authoritarian shits in brussels, dc and london. Guess they would be susceptible to idiotic propaganda and lies at baseline. All for the glory of nothingness.

Posted by: Jklp1976 | Nov 14 2023 14:29 utc | 68

@ GuardYourHumanity | Nov 14 2023 12:41 utc | 17
It’s not just a class matter. The Ukronazis have deliberately chosen their unwanted minorities — ethnic Russians and Hungarians — to be cannon fodder while the nice “Aryan” boys of Lvov get to sit in cafes.
That, of course, is beginning to change. Pity. 🙂

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 14 2023 14:30 utc | 69

@ GuardYourHumanity | Nov 14 2023 12:41 utc | 17
It’s not just a class matter. The Ukronazis have deliberately chosen their unwanted minorities — ethnic Russians and Hungarians — to be cannon fodder while the nice “Aryan” boys of Lvov get to sit in cafes.
That, of course, is beginning to change. Pity. 🙂

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 14 2023 14:30 utc | 70

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 14:07 utc | 31
Well said.
I think we are near the inflection point on how the actual treatment of Ukrainians are in Europe. Today we hear news Ireland is no longer giving any “special” benefits to Ukrainian refugees, which will surely become a common theme throughout EU controlled part of Europe. The simple underlying reason is Ukraine nor Ukrainians are no longer useful for the empire.
However, it is very likely that it will take a long time to Ukrainians to “get it” that they are just disposable tools. It will take a running decade of struggling to “get it” but it is one possibility that they will become another Chechnya. It’s most likely that some sort of military government will need to be established for years with the sole purpose of disposing nazis.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 14 2023 14:34 utc | 71

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 14:07 utc | 31
Well said.
I think we are near the inflection point on how the actual treatment of Ukrainians are in Europe. Today we hear news Ireland is no longer giving any “special” benefits to Ukrainian refugees, which will surely become a common theme throughout EU controlled part of Europe. The simple underlying reason is Ukraine nor Ukrainians are no longer useful for the empire.
However, it is very likely that it will take a long time to Ukrainians to “get it” that they are just disposable tools. It will take a running decade of struggling to “get it” but it is one possibility that they will become another Chechnya. It’s most likely that some sort of military government will need to be established for years with the sole purpose of disposing nazis.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 14 2023 14:34 utc | 72

However, it is very likely that it will take a long time to Ukrainians to “get it” that they are just disposable tools. It will take a running decade of struggling to “get it” but it is one possibility that they will become another Chechnya. It’s most likely that some sort of military government will need to be established for years with the sole purpose of disposing nazis.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 14 2023 14:34 utc | 36
Just so. The best way for the Ukrainians to “get it” is through a decisive military defeat, ruthless eradication of the Ukro-Nazi regime and any vestiges of western influence, while the country is simultaneously rebuilt. This was the experiance of Chechenya and it could partially serve as a guideline.
On the other hand, Putin’s nonsensical comments about “de-communization” that would find every western anti-Russian and every neo-Nazi in agreement, should be consigned to the dustbin of failed quotes. The adoption of the Ukrainian language/dialect should be taken seriously and double language about fraternal nations who are at the same time hohols must be discarded. If the Belarussian identity can be part of the greater Russian world, so can the Ukrainian. The Soviet moument in Pereyaslavl should be restored along with everything brought down by the Ukro-Nazis.
This would be in agreement with the suggestion by “DunGroanin” about people immigrating to improve the land. In my opinion, the retarded effort by some Russians to present themselves as US American ultra-conservatives with Russian characteristics has been a spectacular failure and deprived Russia of much support from those who honor the anti-colonial struggle. It would have been, for example, most beneficial to have large numbers of Latin American volunteers to fight against NATO, use the experience for their homelands or even settle in the region after the war. I, for one, had expected an invitation to Cuban doctors during the conflict, at the very least seving the locals in the new oblasts (especially Donbass).

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 14:54 utc | 73

However, it is very likely that it will take a long time to Ukrainians to “get it” that they are just disposable tools. It will take a running decade of struggling to “get it” but it is one possibility that they will become another Chechnya. It’s most likely that some sort of military government will need to be established for years with the sole purpose of disposing nazis.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 14 2023 14:34 utc | 36
Just so. The best way for the Ukrainians to “get it” is through a decisive military defeat, ruthless eradication of the Ukro-Nazi regime and any vestiges of western influence, while the country is simultaneously rebuilt. This was the experiance of Chechenya and it could partially serve as a guideline.
On the other hand, Putin’s nonsensical comments about “de-communization” that would find every western anti-Russian and every neo-Nazi in agreement, should be consigned to the dustbin of failed quotes. The adoption of the Ukrainian language/dialect should be taken seriously and double language about fraternal nations who are at the same time hohols must be discarded. If the Belarussian identity can be part of the greater Russian world, so can the Ukrainian. The Soviet moument in Pereyaslavl should be restored along with everything brought down by the Ukro-Nazis.
This would be in agreement with the suggestion by “DunGroanin” about people immigrating to improve the land. In my opinion, the retarded effort by some Russians to present themselves as US American ultra-conservatives with Russian characteristics has been a spectacular failure and deprived Russia of much support from those who honor the anti-colonial struggle. It would have been, for example, most beneficial to have large numbers of Latin American volunteers to fight against NATO, use the experience for their homelands or even settle in the region after the war. I, for one, had expected an invitation to Cuban doctors during the conflict, at the very least seving the locals in the new oblasts (especially Donbass).

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 14:54 utc | 74

A suitable Epitaph for this war or any war for that matter should be
while empires may be conquered on horseback, they could not be ruled on horseback.–Yelu Chucai

Posted by: chris m | Nov 14 2023 14:58 utc | 75

A suitable Epitaph for this war or any war for that matter should be
while empires may be conquered on horseback, they could not be ruled on horseback.–Yelu Chucai

Posted by: chris m | Nov 14 2023 14:58 utc | 76

Thanks b, for your work. From even before the beginning of the SMO, your voice and this blog have been an important place for information and discussion. Kudos!

Posted by: gottlieb | Nov 14 2023 15:10 utc | 77

Thanks b, for your work. From even before the beginning of the SMO, your voice and this blog have been an important place for information and discussion. Kudos!

Posted by: gottlieb | Nov 14 2023 15:10 utc | 78

“The Russian forces are now doing probing attacks along the whole frontline. Whenever a local Ukrainian local defense line will fail, which is just a question of time, they will break through and cover new grounds. Those drops leaking through will become a stream, then a river and a flood that will push the Ukrainian army into a full retreat.”

The Russians have had the wherewithal to push the Ukrainian army into a full retreat back in 2022 already, just they are not exercising that option. Instead all the Russians are doing is shadowboxing, with some jabs every now and then, lots of fancy footwork, plus some stinging rights on occasion just to keep the opposition awake. All Russia is trying to do is make the opposition (the West) see that they (the West) are not only totally outclassed, but are in the wrong weight division as well. Russia is a heavy weight but America is not. So the West had best retreat to the pre-1990’s NATO lines. Even when the Ukrainian army falls apart due to lack of manpower and weaponry it remains to be seen how much of Ukraine will be occupied by Russia. Hopefully Saint Putin is not going to be too merciful with the opposition.

Posted by: gT | Nov 14 2023 15:11 utc | 79

“The Russian forces are now doing probing attacks along the whole frontline. Whenever a local Ukrainian local defense line will fail, which is just a question of time, they will break through and cover new grounds. Those drops leaking through will become a stream, then a river and a flood that will push the Ukrainian army into a full retreat.”

The Russians have had the wherewithal to push the Ukrainian army into a full retreat back in 2022 already, just they are not exercising that option. Instead all the Russians are doing is shadowboxing, with some jabs every now and then, lots of fancy footwork, plus some stinging rights on occasion just to keep the opposition awake. All Russia is trying to do is make the opposition (the West) see that they (the West) are not only totally outclassed, but are in the wrong weight division as well. Russia is a heavy weight but America is not. So the West had best retreat to the pre-1990’s NATO lines. Even when the Ukrainian army falls apart due to lack of manpower and weaponry it remains to be seen how much of Ukraine will be occupied by Russia. Hopefully Saint Putin is not going to be too merciful with the opposition.

Posted by: gT | Nov 14 2023 15:11 utc | 80

Posted by: Exile | Nov 14 2023 11:02 utc | 5
My rough estimate of Population currently within Kiev controled territory
Starting point 34 million as of 2014
Less
5 million fled to Europe 2014-21
5 million fled to Europe 2022-23
3 million fled to Russia 2014-21
3 million fled to Russia 2022-23
7 million living in DPR, LPR, Crimea
————————
11 million

If you can determine the number of the ‘fled’ who did so from DPR-LPR-Crimea (probably most went into Russia), meaning a comparison of 2014 populations there with current, then you could come up with a better number. But looks like it would top out at around 15,000,000.
I have felt for some time that the Hidden Hand purpose of the SMO has been depopulation. (What better way to achieve demilitarization and denazification? Or, according to some, what better way to prepare the land for the Israelis to retreat back into the old Pale where more of them come from culturally than the Arab and Persian Levant.)
Still a ways to go but the final push might be like post-war Germany – about 13,000,000 forced to leave their ancestral territories, mainly on foot. In this case, Galicia and Poland might suddenly find their numbers swelling in a matter of weeks.
Hmm… wonder how long it will take for Russian flags to be flying over Odessa and Kiev? Is there a betting pool on that?

Posted by: Scorpion | Nov 14 2023 15:16 utc | 81

Posted by: Exile | Nov 14 2023 11:02 utc | 5
My rough estimate of Population currently within Kiev controled territory
Starting point 34 million as of 2014
Less
5 million fled to Europe 2014-21
5 million fled to Europe 2022-23
3 million fled to Russia 2014-21
3 million fled to Russia 2022-23
7 million living in DPR, LPR, Crimea
————————
11 million

If you can determine the number of the ‘fled’ who did so from DPR-LPR-Crimea (probably most went into Russia), meaning a comparison of 2014 populations there with current, then you could come up with a better number. But looks like it would top out at around 15,000,000.
I have felt for some time that the Hidden Hand purpose of the SMO has been depopulation. (What better way to achieve demilitarization and denazification? Or, according to some, what better way to prepare the land for the Israelis to retreat back into the old Pale where more of them come from culturally than the Arab and Persian Levant.)
Still a ways to go but the final push might be like post-war Germany – about 13,000,000 forced to leave their ancestral territories, mainly on foot. In this case, Galicia and Poland might suddenly find their numbers swelling in a matter of weeks.
Hmm… wonder how long it will take for Russian flags to be flying over Odessa and Kiev? Is there a betting pool on that?

Posted by: Scorpion | Nov 14 2023 15:16 utc | 82

Another terrific article in a series of them. Thank you and congratulations, b.

Posted by: Scorpion | Nov 14 2023 15:17 utc | 83

Another terrific article in a series of them. Thank you and congratulations, b.

Posted by: Scorpion | Nov 14 2023 15:17 utc | 84

@Ernesto #16
War isn’t just about people with guns.
You need food, fuel, ammunition, weapons platforms.
Ukraine is probably fine on food but the rest of the above list is highly suspect.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 14 2023 15:25 utc | 85

@Ernesto #16
War isn’t just about people with guns.
You need food, fuel, ammunition, weapons platforms.
Ukraine is probably fine on food but the rest of the above list is highly suspect.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 14 2023 15:25 utc | 86

Liberal propaganda gave them false hope for a better future and it was backed by brutal fascist goons who dealt summarily with those who opposed this lunacy.
Constantine | Nov 14 2023 14:07 utc | 31
If you replace ‘liberal’ with ‘capitalist’, it becomes more accurate imho. Apart from that, fully agree.
Shows how fascist movements are the ‘natural allies’ of capital interests – always.
What I don’t quite understand:
The disintegration of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact was more than 30 years ago. In most eastern European countries, people have since realized that (neo)liberal capitalism isn’t the ‘promised land’ of milk and honey (except for a small elite) – leading to a (dangerous) surge of nationalism.
Why the different path in Ukraine?
Was Yanukovich already the ‘nationalist’ equivalent of PiS/ Orban/ Fico?

Posted by: smuks | Nov 14 2023 15:25 utc | 87

Liberal propaganda gave them false hope for a better future and it was backed by brutal fascist goons who dealt summarily with those who opposed this lunacy.
Constantine | Nov 14 2023 14:07 utc | 31
If you replace ‘liberal’ with ‘capitalist’, it becomes more accurate imho. Apart from that, fully agree.
Shows how fascist movements are the ‘natural allies’ of capital interests – always.
What I don’t quite understand:
The disintegration of the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact was more than 30 years ago. In most eastern European countries, people have since realized that (neo)liberal capitalism isn’t the ‘promised land’ of milk and honey (except for a small elite) – leading to a (dangerous) surge of nationalism.
Why the different path in Ukraine?
Was Yanukovich already the ‘nationalist’ equivalent of PiS/ Orban/ Fico?

Posted by: smuks | Nov 14 2023 15:25 utc | 88

It’s over in the sense that Russia can block Ukraine’s maximalist goals regardless of how crap NATO sends over and how much sacrifice the UA population makes.
In fact, both Russia and UA seem to modulate their effort after the casualty rates rise to roughly what we had since the summer.
Meanwhile, in addition to several 100k/year lost on the battlefield, UA also still loses tens of thousands of per month to emigration. Last I checked, by EU estimates, this flow is more than the monthly birth rate. The emigrations are usually not working men, due to the cost of the bribes. Children accompanied and their mothers are I believe the majority, per EU migration statistics. This too hits the bottom of the population pyramid. It’s an unkind form of demilitarization… for which UA can thank its NATO sponsors who spoon fed the Bandera crew for years.

Posted by: pxx | Nov 14 2023 15:26 utc | 89

It’s over in the sense that Russia can block Ukraine’s maximalist goals regardless of how crap NATO sends over and how much sacrifice the UA population makes.
In fact, both Russia and UA seem to modulate their effort after the casualty rates rise to roughly what we had since the summer.
Meanwhile, in addition to several 100k/year lost on the battlefield, UA also still loses tens of thousands of per month to emigration. Last I checked, by EU estimates, this flow is more than the monthly birth rate. The emigrations are usually not working men, due to the cost of the bribes. Children accompanied and their mothers are I believe the majority, per EU migration statistics. This too hits the bottom of the population pyramid. It’s an unkind form of demilitarization… for which UA can thank its NATO sponsors who spoon fed the Bandera crew for years.

Posted by: pxx | Nov 14 2023 15:26 utc | 90

@GuardYourHumanity #17
As you correctly implied – university students are almost certainly predominantly the children of the wealthiest Ukrainians.
That’s why the exemption is still there.
It worked for the US with Vietnam, no? /sarc

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 14 2023 15:26 utc | 91

@GuardYourHumanity #17
As you correctly implied – university students are almost certainly predominantly the children of the wealthiest Ukrainians.
That’s why the exemption is still there.
It worked for the US with Vietnam, no? /sarc

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 14 2023 15:26 utc | 92

@Moses22 #22
Ukraine suffered in the ’90s as much as Russia did – the demographic change reflects that particularly with men dying far faster/more frequently than women.
Plus don’t forget there has been both massive migration – which tends to be male even if conscription wasn’t a factor, which it is – and also significant fighting even before the SMO.
The demo data is also certainly from years ago before the SMO started. I first saw this from Martyanov I think, not sure where he got it from.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 14 2023 15:29 utc | 93

@Moses22 #22
Ukraine suffered in the ’90s as much as Russia did – the demographic change reflects that particularly with men dying far faster/more frequently than women.
Plus don’t forget there has been both massive migration – which tends to be male even if conscription wasn’t a factor, which it is – and also significant fighting even before the SMO.
The demo data is also certainly from years ago before the SMO started. I first saw this from Martyanov I think, not sure where he got it from.

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 14 2023 15:29 utc | 94

@42 Scorpion
I think that maybe double-counting much of the LPR/DPR/Crimea population. Somewhere a bit south of 20MM sounds about right.
Note that’s still far too many people to have to fight forever if they were united and motivated. Hence the “soft” aspects of the conflict.

Posted by: pxx | Nov 14 2023 15:31 utc | 95

@42 Scorpion
I think that maybe double-counting much of the LPR/DPR/Crimea population. Somewhere a bit south of 20MM sounds about right.
Note that’s still far too many people to have to fight forever if they were united and motivated. Hence the “soft” aspects of the conflict.

Posted by: pxx | Nov 14 2023 15:31 utc | 96

@Constantine #31

I strongly disagree with the premise of your post that somehow the Ukrainians, most of whom are very similar to the people of Russia, especially the Slavic element, are exceptionally idiotic.

It is hard to explain Ukrainian inability to pierce agitprop otherwise.
Russians are extremely discerning when it comes to Russian propaganda – why are Ukrainians apparently not?

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 14 2023 15:32 utc | 97

@Constantine #31

I strongly disagree with the premise of your post that somehow the Ukrainians, most of whom are very similar to the people of Russia, especially the Slavic element, are exceptionally idiotic.

It is hard to explain Ukrainian inability to pierce agitprop otherwise.
Russians are extremely discerning when it comes to Russian propaganda – why are Ukrainians apparently not?

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 14 2023 15:32 utc | 98

Posted by: ASensibleMan | Nov 14 2023 14:56 utc | 38
Ja, ja, now go sieg-heil with your co-ideologues in “Keeev”. There you can meet other muppets who are certain only Jews are interested in looting. Definitely, the most misnamed poster in this blog.
Posted by: smuks | Nov 14 2023 15:25 utc | 45
The point I made about liberal propaganda was to place the emphasis on the cultural themes that would entice the Ukrainian citizenry to support in significant numbers a disastrous break with the Soviet past and embrace Ukraine’s colonization by the west. Yanukovych was a capitalist too, but he was an opportunist looking after his interests. The Maidanists, a term going well beyond pro-western oligarchs, went all in to transform the country into an utterly abject vassal of western corporations and NATO.

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 15:37 utc | 99

Posted by: ASensibleMan | Nov 14 2023 14:56 utc | 38
Ja, ja, now go sieg-heil with your co-ideologues in “Keeev”. There you can meet other muppets who are certain only Jews are interested in looting. Definitely, the most misnamed poster in this blog.
Posted by: smuks | Nov 14 2023 15:25 utc | 45
The point I made about liberal propaganda was to place the emphasis on the cultural themes that would entice the Ukrainian citizenry to support in significant numbers a disastrous break with the Soviet past and embrace Ukraine’s colonization by the west. Yanukovych was a capitalist too, but he was an opportunist looking after his interests. The Maidanists, a term going well beyond pro-western oligarchs, went all in to transform the country into an utterly abject vassal of western corporations and NATO.

Posted by: Constantine | Nov 14 2023 15:37 utc | 100