Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 27, 2023
Ukraine SitRep: High Losses, Political Infighting, Blocked Borders

How many losses did the Ukrainian army have in its war against Russia.

We, so far, did not have any answer to that. The Ukrainian military has given no realistic account of its own losses while its claims of Russian losses are obviously exaggerated.

The Russia military is likewise giving no numbers for its own losses. But its daily reports give estimates of Ukrainian ones. These are currently around 650 per day plus/minus 200 depending on the intensity of the fighting.

Some western observers, foremost retired Colonel Macgregor, say that Ukraine's unrecoverable losses have exceeded 400,000 men. But he does not name his sources.

Now a new chapter in the war between the Ukrainian president Zelenski and the Commander in Chief of the Ukrainian army, General Zaluzny, may have given us an answer. Yesterday this news item found its way to the Strana news site (machine translation):

Zaluzhny didn't provide the plan of war-2024 and has to leave-the people's Deputy from "Servants of the people"

The commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Valery Zaluzhny, does not have a war plan for 2024, and therefore must resign.

This was stated by Deputy head of the Verkhovna Rada Committee on National Security and Defense, MP from Servant of the People Mariana Bezuglaya on her Facebook page, referring to a "non-public discussion" with the military.

"Yes, the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine could not provide a plan for 2024. Neither big nor small, neither asymmetrical nor symmetrical. The military simply said that they need to take at least 20 thousand citizens a month, " she writes.

Zaluzny has no plans for 2024 because there is nothing he can do about the upcoming defeat of the Ukrainian army.

Every time he urges to stop defending positions that can not be held, like Bakhmut and Avdeevka, the political leadership tells him use all reserves and to keep holding. Every time he urges to build strong defense lines and to retreat to them he gets overruled. There is thereby nothing, except one number, that he can plan for.

That number is the one of the irretrievable losses of the Ukrainian army is experiencing. Zaluzny needs 20,000 new men per month to replace the losses and to keep his army going.

Assuming that the number is an average estimate we can calculate that 20 months of war have cost the Ukraine some 660 losses per day for a total of some 400,000. Irretrievable losses are not only dead (KIA), missed in action (MIA), or soldiers who preferred to become prisoners of war of the Russian army (POWs). They also include the severally wounded people who will be unable to come back onto the battle field.

These numbers seem high but we continue to see more and more reports that point to extremely high losses:

Ivan Katchanovski @I_Katchanovski – 0:35 UTC · Nov 27, 2023

Adviser of Zelenskyy: There is now "terrible shortage" of artillery shells & "huge shortage" of mines and military personnel on frontline. He heard "scary numbers" that average age in some brigades is 54 & that 3 people remain in some companies out of 110 at start of the war. https://youtu.be/MqRNWdqzF7E?si=6EnJEa25zcK-6p-4&t=196

Storming Russian ditches when one's rare troops have an average(!) age of 54 is impossible.

There have been other report which, similar to the one above, speak of the heavy depletion of Ukrainian units:

Kotsyurba and Lysenko’s company began the summer with 120 men. It’s now down to around 20, including replacements. The rest are dead, wounded or have been transferred away from assault duties. The new faces are mostly over 40 years old, some in poor health.

That is no longer an army but a Volkssturm like forces which enlists grandpas and kids to do the fighting.

In response to the threat of firing Zaluzny some activists immediately threatened a coup (machine translation):

A well-known activist close to Western structures, the founder of the StateWatch organization, Alexander Lemenov, threatened Vladimir Zelensky with a military coup.

He wrote about this on Facebook.

"What can we say about this style of communication? I don't have enough words to describe… they'll play out. We will lose more territory. But not all, far from all. And in Kiev, the government will really change, but not to the Russian one, but to the military one.

Zelenski was thus forced to intervene. He had to disavow the comments by the parliamentarian (machine translation):

The President of Ukraine Vladimir Zelensky disowned the statements of Maryana Bezuglaya , who made accusations against the commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Valery Zaluzhny, and condemned her statements.

The corresponding video message was published by the presidential representative in the Verkhovna Rada, Fyodor Venislavsky.

"Mariana Bezuglaya's appointment to the Verkhovna Rada Committee on National Security and Defense may threaten the national security of Ukraine," Venislavsky said.

Meanwhile, Bezuglaya continues to bend her line.

She posted on Facebook a cartoon of a military man who swears that he doesn't know if there is an "offensive plan". She accompanied the picture with the following caption: "When the mines were "discovered" or "go, there are only a couple of p#dors"(c). The military sent them from the brigades now."

Probably, in this way, she wanted to express the idea that the Ukrainian command failed to correctly assess the enemy's forces and the difficulties that the APU will face during the offensive.

Unless the Pentagon and the Biden administration intervene Zelenski will fire Zaluzny within the next few weeks.

British 'experts' continue to push the Ukrainian army into conscripting younger men (machine translation):

The Armed Forces of Ukraine need younger soldiers, because the current average age of the military is too high.

This is stated by Western military experts on the pages of the Financial Times newspaper.

According to experts, this is due to the fact that "the conflict has turned into small infantry battles on foot in trench systems," which require better physical fitness. At the same time, the average age of Ukrainian men fighting at the front and undergoing training in the West is 30-40 years.

Senior Research Fellow, Royal Joint Forces Institute Jack Watlin believes that the Armed Forces of Ukraine this year mobilized "disproportionately many older men," but now they need young people with greater endurance.

At the same time Director of the Polish analytical center Rochan Consulting Konrad Muzyka says that Ukraine cannot wage a war of attrition with the Russian Federation, since the Russian Federation has more equipment and soldiers. Kiev needs more prepared and trained troops.

Earlier the former British Defense Minister Ben Wallace had told Ukraine to draft younger soldiers.

But all these 'experts' ignore the severe problems with Ukraine's population 'pyramid':


bigger

The 20 to 30 year old men they want to draft are simply not there to be recruited in any decisive numbers.

There are also other issues that currently hamper the Ukrainian military. For more than two weeks Polish truckers, who previously had the  dominant role in the European freight business, are blocking the country's borders with Ukraine. Thousands of trucks are stuck on each side with waiting times that are now exceeding two weeks.

That is because the EU gave the non-member Ukraine the privilege of doing business in Europe without having to adhere to its rules. The Ukrainians, with less costs, thus took over the Polish business.

The blockade of the border affects military as well as humanitarian goods. Soon the Ukrainian military will be starving of everything it needs for the war.

It's not only the truckers in Poland who are very nervous about a potential Ukrainian membership in the EU:

Polish farmers on Thursday blocked the Medyka border checkpoint with Ukraine, demanding subsidies on wheat and state-backed loans amid an influx of Ukrainian grain, Polish media reported.

Protesters said they would block trucks from reaching the checkpoint between 9 a.m. and 8 p.m. every day until Sunday, the IAR news agency reported.

The farmers want the government to subsidise the prices of wheat, extend state-backed loans due to the influx of grain from Ukraine, and keep the farm tax rates unchanged, according to news outlets.

On November 6, Polish truck drivers launched a blockade of the Hrebenne, Dorohusk and Korczowa checkpoints, demanding that the European Union reinstate permits for Ukrainian transport companies entering the bloc.

On Thursday, Polish transport companies announced that the protest at the Dorohusk checkpoint would be extended until February 1, Ukraine's Ukrinform news agency reported.

The Polish protests coincide with concerns in Ukraine that the European Union may not agree next month to launch formal accession talks for it to join the 27-member bloc, a key objective for Kyiv, according to the Reuters news agency.

It reported that prolonged protests and the resulting disruption to trade could affect Ukraine's fragile, wartime economy.

The price of motor vehicle gas (LPG), which is widely used to fuel cars, has surged 30 percent due to the protests, according to an industry analyst cited by Reuters.

Should Ukraine enter the European Union Poland will lose most of the agricultural and other development subsidies it is currently receiving from the EU. Those subsidies would then flow into the even less developed, low pay Ukraine. It is thus unlikely that Poland will agree to its membership.

Over the last days Ukraine, on top of the losses and political troubles, saw a record storm in the Black Sea accompanied by a serious drop in temperature. Thousands of households in south Ukraine and Crimea are without electricity. Snow is hindering all movements.

Comments

Posted by: Cynic | Nov 28 2023 4:58 utc | 196
Nothing like this will happen ever … until the Russians have way over 1,000 Khinzals – they are said to have about 90 of them. Go figure.
Putin will never allow it.
When there are over thousands Khinzals with nukular tactical heads, some other Russian might press the button.

Posted by: Greg Galloway | Nov 28 2023 5:29 utc | 201

It is impossible to imagine the catastrophic consequences of Putin’s peace proposals of March 2022 for Russia and the non Amerikastani vassal world. We all owe Boorish Johnson a debt of gratitude.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 28 2023 2:08 utc | 190
Yeah, nah!
Russia’s Dec 2021 ultimatum to NATO was designed to be rejected.
Just because peace was being offered and some of the main details leaked, doesn’t mean that was the final draft.
Nice line of reasoning, though.
Cheers

Posted by: Suresh | Nov 28 2023 5:47 utc | 202

On Ukie TV, before being taken down 1,126,652 dead or missing / Add wounded at 4/1 = 4,506,608 wounded = total casualties
5,633,260

Posted by: JakJones | Nov 28 2023 5:49 utc | 203

To all the posters observing that “older” (50-70 year olds) men can indeed stay fit:
Yes, there is no question that many older folks can remain fit & healthy.
What they (the older) lack, however, is the 18-25 year old psychology of “I am immortal!” (AKA “I can’t possibly be hurt.”). This, combined with less experience of the world, less cynicism, has been the staple of world armies since the development of Machine Guns.
Retirement age, and the end of military obligation, was often at around 60 years of age throughout pre-machine-gun history.
Post Machine Gun:
Older officer says, “You need to RUN TOWARD that machine gun nest.”
18-yo: “Ok!”
40-yo: “Show me how it’s done, please. After you.”

Posted by: retroflecks | Nov 28 2023 6:12 utc | 204

@GMC | Nov 27 2023 15:00 utc | 43
Crimea and Istanbul earlier, got hit with Weather weapons, courtesy of Nato { Norway’s Haarp ? }

Remember to take your meds.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2023 15:15 utc | 50

Putin et al. have repeatedly referred to “Weapons based on New Physics”. I don’t have a link, but some video showed me part of the Russian Ministry of Defense website where they defined the term “Weapons based on New Physics”. One of the 5 or 6 categories was “Weather Modification.”
On the US side, someone created a thread on the Above Top Secret (ATS) website, to assemble a list of links regarding Weather Modification & Weaponization:
https://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1335540/pg1
If it’s just a crackpot theory, why are they investing so much time, effort, money, & patents on this topic?
Warning: ATS is a conspiracy-theory website. It has changed ownership several times. Based on indirect evidence, it is almost certainly now operating as a US Govt “honeypot” to track practitioners of “wrong-think” (ie; just like Google and Facebook). Still, the archives are worth investigating to form your own opinion.

Posted by: retroflecks | Nov 28 2023 6:35 utc | 205


Social media makes it possible for news to spread horizontally, instead of top down, for people to fact check, and for people to know how their peers react to the propaganda being pushed by msm. Two heads are better than one, and millions of heads are better than top down propaganda spread to people in isolation.

Posted by: wagelaborer | Nov 27 2023 17:08 utc | 79

who said the following?

You may be the smartest person in the room, but you are not smarter than the room.

Posted by: retroflecks | Nov 28 2023 6:49 utc | 206

On Ukie TV, before being taken down 1,126,652 dead or missing / Add wounded at 4/1 = 4,506,608 wounded = total casualties
5,633,260
Posted by: JakJones | Nov 28 2023 5:49 utc | 203
That’s per event , from 120 hit, 20 die, 20 irrecoverably wounded, (from which 1 amputee), the other 80 wounded go back to be hit again… so after a while it’s 1-1

Posted by: Newbie | Nov 28 2023 7:19 utc | 207

@Patroklos | Nov 27 2023 20:33 utc | 131
Its not that the geriatrics are lying, its more about what they were doing in their youth. Anyone sitting in the library reading books is going to be in much better condition in their old age than those who risked their lives on the sports fields in contact sports every weekend. I’ve seen professional rugby players, some who have even represented their country, walk like broken men in their 30’s and 40’s already. All the knee and back and neck issues is just unbelievable, and lets not talk about the brain damage due to all the concussions from their school days already. Then there is the problem of contact team sports involving lots of damaging pub crawls as well. With the old dogs its like they can’t run else their knees will collapse so they have to strap their knees heavily before attempting any rapid movements, and this was the case during their playing days.
Those involved with single person sports, like tennis or canoeing or whatever, just don’t understand the gang mentality that contact team sports engender. And human progress, especially war, is a gang activity, a team always beats an individual.
But ultimately youth make the best soldiers. They can engage in strenuous physical activity day after day with minimal sleep and sustenance for literally weeks at a time. Old men can’t do that. It was said of slaves on this very site I think it was, that they were only good for like 12 years of labour before too many problems begin to emerge. So for ground infantry its probably 6 years, from 16/18 to like 24 years old, after that they can’t just run everywhere all the time and obey orders all the time. Definitely by the time they reach their 30’s they begin to question orders too much.

Posted by: gT | Nov 28 2023 7:22 utc | 208

Does the US & EU still have strategy beyond 1) “create more chaos” and 2) “create more poverty” ?
Posted by: Mr. Market | Nov 27 2023 22:33 utc | 145

Paul Wolfowitz doctrine (US will prevent the appearance of any near peer) means that (1) “create more chaos” IS the entire strategy.
(2) “create more poverty” is a short-term consequence of (1), and of funneling all wealth and assets to a select few.
They very apparently plan to reverse (2) “poverty” by “removing” up to 7.5Billion souls.
Keep watching developments in AI and Automation — they’re pretty sure they don’t need most of us. Yuval Noah Harari’s “Useless Eaters” are scheduled for redundancy.
(side note: Wolfowitz & Harari are both of the Chosen… surely just a coincidence.)

Posted by: retroflecks | Nov 28 2023 7:45 utc | 209

An Apology:
To Bernard and the MOA community.
Last week I posted a dreadfully insulting comment to you all and Mr. Putin
I have been feeling terrible about what I wrote. I don’t know if anybody read it. I hope not.
I spoke to my doctor about it and she told me it was from a burst of testosterone I experienced as a result of a serious illness I had been suffering and the medications I was on.
I do believe her as it is out of character for me to do such a thing.
I nevertheless can only beg your forgiveness.
I am a great fan of this blog and I am still hopeful that I was wrong about Mr Putin who I accused of representing the global banking oligarchy of You Know Who.
I have all but recovered now and remain a loyal and admiring reader.

Posted by: Little Black duck | Nov 28 2023 7:54 utc | 210

Posted by: Little Black duck | Nov 28 2023 7:54 utc | 210
Thank you. I didn’t see the comment you refer to, but it is rare on social media to receive an apology and it keeps up the high standards of this board. So it is appreciated.

Posted by: JulianJ | Nov 28 2023 8:08 utc | 211

Question:
Has anybody seen a recent interview with one David Arachamija
providing information that the Butcha Massaker was faked by Ukraine?
found a reference in another forum but could not the find the relevant interview.
(sorry for being obnoxius, posted @99 already, “obsscured by the fold”)

Posted by: MAKK | Nov 28 2023 8:14 utc | 212

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-hanna-katzir-only-learned-of-husbands-death-sons-kidnapping-after-her-release/
Killing the husband of a 77 years old woman. What kind of sick Nazi bastards do this. And don’t make excuses for them. Every Nazi can make excuses.
Sick bastards.
Israel will not manage to kill all of them. But they will kill enough of them that the survivors stop and think.
Pure evil.

Posted by: Augusto Pi | Nov 28 2023 8:18 utc | 213

Someone commented that Ukraine age pyramid implies revolt is unlikely, presumably because revolt requires energy and passion of youth.
Posted by: anonposter | Nov 27 2023 23:01 utc | 151

[…]

Definitely by the time they reach their 30’s they begin to question orders too much.
Posted by: gT | Nov 28 2023 7:22 utc | 208

Ukraine’s demographic pyramid looking like this is a very good thing for Russia, because the committed brainwashed Banderites are concentrated in the young, who didn’t exist in huge numbers, then left the country, and much of the rest was killed on the frontlines.
The most pro-Russian/pro-Soviet group are the Soviet boomers. There were multiple videos from the early months of the war, when the front wasn’t static, and before the SBU really cracked down on dissent and information leaks, of Ukrainian babushkas arguing with their Banderite grandsons, explaining to them that they are fools and traitors, etc. Really symbolized the whole situation.
But it’s the middle generation whose behavior is the real mystery. Those are the ones circa 50-year old. They were born in the USSR and consciously lived under it, and they are also old and mature enough to understand the insanity of what is happening. They are the ones who should be rebelling against being sent to slaughter. And yet they are not…

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Nov 28 2023 8:27 utc | 214

@retroflecks | Nov 28 2023 6:35 utc | 205
Weather modification techniques like cloud seeding etc may be carried out under favourable conditions but are expensive in the general case
HAARP creates a denser plasma cloud but that happens in the ionosphere way above where the weather’s character is determined
One use is to raise the low frequency cutoff for the reflection of radio signals so they reach around the horizon
In order to produce a tomographic image with better resolution of everything that flies in a 3D athmospheric region HAARP might be helpful.
The woodpecker signal the Sovjets had long ago used the ionosphere perhaps in its normal condition to achieve a lower resolution. Presumably to spot lowflying cruise missiles

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Nov 28 2023 8:28 utc | 215

Posted by: Hankster | Nov 27 2023 16:58 utc | 76
Yeah, Russia’s innovative human wave tactics during last year have probably cured lots of russophobic folks. Not to mention their airforces stellar performance.
Posted by: retroflecks | Nov 28 2023 6:35 utc | 205
The weather & related events in Crimea do lead me to believe that russia indeed tried some weather modification. With typical russian results 🙂

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Nov 28 2023 8:35 utc | 216

The weather & related events in Crimea do lead me to believe that russia indeed tried some weather modification. With typical russian results 🙂
Posted by: Membrum Virile | Nov 28 2023 8:35 utc | 216
If bad weather can cloud your mind and beliefs that much, you should avoid any wheather forecasts.
And better not leave your basement during the rainy season.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Nov 28 2023 8:56 utc | 217

Marianna, wife of SBU boss Kirill Budanov has reportedly been poisoned.
https://twitter.com/angeloinchina/status/1729434945591152865

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 28 2023 9:44 utc | 218

There is a saying that a person be beatiful both inside and outside. Well, Victoria Nuland is an extreme example of the opposite. My god, she becomes uglier every day..

Posted by: Vesa | Nov 28 2023 9:45 utc | 219

Dear President Zelensky,
Regarding the age profile of Ukrainian soldiers, I have a statistically valid, and undeniably robust solution.
Send all pregnant Ukrainian women to the front until 4 weeks before term.
Each pregnant woman soldier obviously counts as two individuals, but the foetus would be aged anywhere from -9 to -1 months, which would help lower the average age of our glorious fighting forces dramatically.
Forward to victory!

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Nov 28 2023 9:47 utc | 220

@ Posted by: Suresh | Nov 28 2023 5:47 utc | 202
Wholly agree – there was zero chance of a peace treaty of any type at that point.
That is why the Russians offered it. Obviously the Russians knew what the natzios plan of attack was.
So BP and others keep holding onto the wrong end of the stick as he fails to understand ‘Putin’; as do most who erroneously believe that a single man is the only reason why the Russian masses have rejected the Western Siren Call to their self destruction
Our little bleating here btl means little in terms of the Geopolitical Action, as the Humph said ‘it doesn’t add up to a bunch of beans! ‘ – but it puts us on the right or wrong side of that War waged by the Few against the Many of the Whole World.

Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 28 2023 9:48 utc | 221

Украинские СМИ сообщают, что якобы была отравлена жена главы ГУР Буданова. Отравление произошло с помощью тяжелых металлов. Расследуется попытка убийства. Впрочем, есть версия, что это сам Буданов пытался избавиться от жены, которая мешала его сожительству с мужчинами (в этом Буданова уже достаточно давно обвиняют – в частности, Владимир Рогов в свое время обвинял Буданова в том, что тот сожительствовал с агентом Ми-6).
Ukrainian media report that the wife of the head of the Main Intelligence Directorate Budanov was allegedly poisoned. The poisoning occurred with the help of heavy metals. An attempted murder is being investigated. However, there is a version that it was Budanov himself who tried to get rid of his wife, who interfered with his cohabitation with men (Budanov has been accused of this for a long time – in particular, Vladimir Rogov at one time accused Budanov of cohabiting with an MI-6 agent).
Colonelcassad

Posted by: chop | Nov 28 2023 9:56 utc | 222

On a more serious note, regarding Ukrainian army age issues, I would imagine that the old, the sick and the lame will be given jobs where they don’t have to leap into trenches.
If they are fit enough to be part of an artillery team for example. Or to drive logistics/ resupply/ medics vehicles.
That still puts them in range of Russian artillery and drones, but probably the casualty rate will be lower than the front line trenches. It would also allow the displacement of younger, fitter men from those activities, and release of them to the front.
Sadly, that also means all those younger, fitter men are going to die even quicker and screw the age profile even more.

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Nov 28 2023 10:01 utc | 224

Vesa #219
‘There is a saying that a person be beautiful both inside and outside. Well, Victoria Nuland is an extreme example of the opposite. My god, she becomes uglier every day.’
Vesa, I presume when she dies, and you queue to view her open casket, the vision of her in death will be a moment of extreme serenity and happiness for you.

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Nov 28 2023 10:05 utc | 225

Daily Mail already accuses Russia for Budanov’s wife.
First thing I tought is another episode of the Ukrainian undeclared civil war among the military.

Posted by: Augusto Pi | Nov 28 2023 10:08 utc | 226

Re the Polish truckers comment – “The Ukrainians, with less costs, thus took over the Polish business.” – the Poles are getting a taste of their own medicine. Polish truckers were able to undercut UK truckers when we were fully in the EU. Thereby hitting small UK transport companies……

Posted by: Joseph Adam-Smith | Nov 28 2023 10:55 utc | 227

@Posted by: S Brennan | Nov 27 2023 18:17 utc | 95
It’s well known fact that older men can’t run [I mean sprint] for shit.
At 51 I attended the Schumacher College intentional community for an MA in Economics for Transition and while there tried playing football with the youngsters. They would run by me as if I was standing! So I can attest to the “can’t sprint for shit” phenomenon. Probably a lot slower again 10 years later.
Posted by: Roger | Nov 27 2023 18:51 utc | 105
At 44 I played my last contact sport game. My older son was at a Northern Ontario camp for the summer so the wife and I visited him on his birthday. They were about to play a rugby game, counselors against kids (my kid was 15 at the time) I was invited to play so I payed on the kid’s side. I scored two tries and on the last one I ploughed through a 23 year old, stocky Mexican counsellor and knocked him plum over ass over teakettle..
On the last play of the the half I ran low and the Mexican kid ran even lower-he hit me square with his shoulder on my right shoulder. He stopped me flat. The pain was immense. My rotator cuff was fucked. But I was not showing my pain to the kids. No way. And I had another problem, I couldn’t put down my right arm it was stuck in an upright ‘waving position’
I told the boys one half was enough for me and told them I didn’t want to embarrass them as I had scored the only two tries.
So I waved my upright arm and went to the lake where I waded-it took me half an hour to get the arm down.
I don’t believe in shoulder surgery as a few of my football (American football) teammates had similar surgeries years before that only made the problem worse.
Seriously, my arm hurt for 7 years. It gradually diminished .
The first time I played contact sports I was 7 and in Grade two at public school and I badgered guys in the eighth grade to let me play. They did and about 5 minutes later I had the ‘wind’ knocked out of me. I could not breathe. It was the first time that had happened to me and I was sure I was going to die.
My sport contact career is book marked by these two painful episodes.

Posted by: drew currah | Nov 28 2023 11:05 utc | 228

“Though for my money I think Glory Road, and The Door Into Summer, feature him at his best, bubbling with ideas, and not yet seething with a rage over permissive liberalism that would spill over into his writing, imbuing his novels with a bleak pessimism for the future (not fun reads). And his All You Zombies is a short story classic, not that long ago adapted into an unexpectedly brilliant feature film.”
Posted by: Babel-17 | Nov 27 2023 19:47 utc | 115
My favourite Heinlein novel was, “Stranger in a Strange Land”

Posted by: canuck | Nov 28 2023 11:10 utc | 229

Sorry but it is really annoying to discuss this stupid exception to the rule game.
Yes there are 60 y/o who are fitter than some 20 y/o, there are women who are taller and stronger than some men. There may even be some who are fitter at 60 than they were in their 20s.
And yet it doesnt matter.
Please stop it. Its really annoying. It has zero relevance to the fact that guys in their 20s are at their physical peak without having a fully developed PFC or enough experience which makes them inable to assess risks correctly.

Posted by: Orgel | Nov 28 2023 11:17 utc | 230

“An observation about the WW2 German military–Allied forces did not win in Italy; they were stymied by the geography. The Western Front was denuded of personnel in favor of bolstering the Eastern Front, which is the only reason why the Allied forces were able to rapidly advance to the Rhine. If the bridge at Remagen had been dropped, it’s doubtful the Red Army would have stopped at Berlin and the final contact line wouldn’t have been the Elbe.”
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 27 2023 19:48 utc | 116
Agreed, the German General Kesselring was a superb, defensive WWII tactician-second only to von Manstein; the allies would have had a better chance if the American General Mark Clark hadn’t been foolish as his ego seduced him to march on Rome.
“Clark has been heavily criticized for ignoring the orders of his superior officer, British General Sir Harold Alexander, commanding the Allied Armies in Italy (AAI), and for allowing the German 10th Army to slip away, in his drive to take Rome, the capital of Italy but not strategically important.”

Posted by: canuck | Nov 28 2023 11:18 utc | 231

You forgot to mention Bernard Hopkins who at the age of at 46 won the lineal/WBC light heavyweight title beating George Foreman’s record by a year. He then broke his own record by winning the IBF light heavyweight title at the age of 48. He then at age 49 broke another record by winning the WBA light heavyweight title. He also became the oldest boxer to ever unify titles.
The history you quote regarding older soldiers I do not think Ukraine falls under the same umbrella. They are a 3rd world country with a terrible healthcare system. I doubt Ukrainian men in their 40s let alone their 50s and 60s are in good health because they probably have little access to regular healthcare. Plus, the Ukrainian military does not treat its soldiers well so they will not provide them with training, healthcare, and proper nutrition in order to get t hem in better fighting shape. I have read that life expectancy for Ukrainian males is only 65 yrs of age.
Posted by: Joe | Nov 28 2023 0:40 utc | 177
Thanks for the addition of Bernard Hopkins.
I also agree that Ukrainian or for that matter most middle aged men are not fit to go to war.
My salient point is that if they did a lifetime of training, were top physical specimens they can do it as the Silver Shields did 2,300 years ago.

Posted by: canuck | Nov 28 2023 11:40 utc | 232

@canuck #49
If your understanding of the Silver Shields is based solely on the single sentence you quote, I understand why you are confused.
They were definitely tough but yet again: by the Diadochi era, the Silver Shields were no longer front line serving troops. They were elites as in bodyguards, sergeants, lower officers, Praetorian Guard.
Among other things – being a front line troop in that era meant holding up a near pike-like spear (the sarissa), horizontally, for literally hours on end. It is the equivalent of holding a 10 foot long 2×4, more or less horizontally, for hours on end.
While I’m sure a few 60-year olds can do it, I am even more sure that the repetitive stress injuries resulting from doing this for decades would whittle this force to nothing.
On the other hand, being a skilled warrior who primarily guards the generals is very possible. Again, the Silver Shields under Alexander may have been some of the same people after he died, but they certainly were not the same fighting force. Even disregarding the age, any troops that served under Alexander for such a long time would be very wealthy by the standards of that time – as in owning slaves and what not, being married with adult sons, etc.
You didn’t answer the question about your fellow age-demographic workers.
Are there many like yourself who are able to continue a high physical demand labor job into their 60s?

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 28 2023 11:50 utc | 233

I have a detailed analysis of Mediazona’s casualty figures in my blogpost on the Ukraine war.
The link to that post is: https://rpdeans.blogspot.com/2023/09/ukraine-war-part-5-how-russia-fights.html
My blog has original data based analysis.
I comment on Ukraine’s losses in part 6, of the same series `DeansMusings’.

Posted by: Rahul Deans | Nov 28 2023 11:54 utc | 234

This is obviously OT, but the one Heinlein book that I can read again and again is The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress.
And yes I am glad to see Babel-17 mention The Puppet Masters. A really good film that seemed to go under the radar, but at the same time was part of the X-Files inspired zeitgeist of the 90s. An era which I sort of miss.
The storm seems to have caused a lot of disruption along the Black Sea Coast and Crimea, including damage to powerlines etc. One wonders if Russia will open up against the power infrastructure again in the coming weeks.

Posted by: Glossopteris | Nov 28 2023 12:01 utc | 235

Russia has been pushing forward the “White book of crimes” against the peoples of the Donbass by Ukr forces…. not sure of its progress….but… if any settlement is arrived at….will that include the Whitebook to enable Russia to hold those accused to account…or a settlement just facilitate that progress?

Posted by: Jo | Nov 28 2023 12:16 utc | 236

“Here in Europe, we are working right now to update our anti-smuggling legislation, which is 20 years old. We will update the definition of the crime of migrant smuggling, toughen our sanctions and extend our jurisdictional reach,” ursula von der lying said at the International Conference on a Global Alliance to Counter Smuggling. (From sputnik)
And just after finnland closed borders with russia because of “migrants and asylum seekers“. Watch the fascists spin this around to have frontex be intertwined with some nato troops on the borders or something. And finnland loses another part of its souvereignity. Bit by bit.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Nov 28 2023 12:21 utc | 237

Posted by: c1ue | Nov 28 2023 11:50 utc | 233
No, you are very misinformed; the Silver Shields were on the front line in 315 BC fighting on the side of Eumenes against Antigonus the One Eyed in the Diadochi battles.
That was eight years after Alexander’s death.
There is plenty of evidence from ancient writers-Diodorus Siculus, Plutarch, Arrian, Justin and Polyeanus-see below. Unless by some fantastic circumstance you were an eye witness to these events what counter archival evidence do you possess?
I thought so.
https://www.ancient-origins.net/history-ancient-traditions/silver-shields-0016403
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/ancient-history/alexander-greats-elite-hand-picked-expert-troops-silver-shields.html
https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/710231803720209999/
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/ancient-history/alexander-greats-elite-hand-picked-expert-troops-silver-shields.html
http://www.markgmclaughlin.com/uncategorized/silver-shields-alexanders-storm-troopers-chosen-men/
https://m.facebook.com/theancientspodcast/photos/a.1921463198073572/2285421608344394/?type=3&_rdr

Posted by: canuck | Nov 28 2023 12:22 utc | 238

The moral of my story is that if one’s keeps up one’s health and fitness one can engage in a young man’s activity.
Posted by: canuck | Nov 27 2023 12:32 utc | 9
I applaud you for this, @Canuck – but do you think that’s what all these 50 year old Ukranian men have been doing? Eating healthy, not drinking much, exercising, etc. … I highly doubt it.

Posted by: Gran | Nov 28 2023 12:27 utc | 239

Lots of noise in the Western press about the Russian use of “low cost” drones to great effect in the SMO.
You can just see how their minds work:
See? If we just had a lot of low cost drones we’d be able to beat them rooskies!
These idiots don’t realize that it’s not that the drones are “low cost” it’s that the system producing them is efficient.
Even if the West stole the blueprints it’d be expensive to manufacture using Western production networks.
Of course, they could always outsource to China …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 12:32 utc | 240

Always be very wary of a man without a plan.
USUK have about 15 back up plans to hold on to their assets and prop up the balance sheets.
Ukraine and Israel both have no long term plan, they are the known unknowns.
The war of multipolarity versus unipolarity has only just begun and the list of countries without a plan will soon start multiplying and bring total chaos all over earth.

Posted by: Eoin Clancy | Nov 28 2023 12:36 utc | 241

Arch Bungle 239: These are two different philosophies: The Western arms industry is used to installing everything that is possible because money doesn’t play a role – and in the East they install what is necessary.

Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 28 2023 12:42 utc | 242

Nato UK USA should be investigated for spinsoring war acts of terror crimes against peoples of DNR LPR says ex USA military Scott Bennet …for a foolsh and pointless campaign.
vid on z and v on telegram also RT article.

Posted by: Jo | Nov 28 2023 13:04 utc | 243

As long as you are still breathing, you can die!
Of course there are fit older people as well as young invalids.
But for me, the point is rather the voluntariness of wanting to use your life or not.
If that’s not the case, it’s murder. If someone demands a commitment before they make one themselves, that’s sociopathic.
All those who want to continue to wage war, hunt people down and send them to the front, would have to taste their own medicine.
But you don’t have to be fit for that (as a Ukrainian):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5r0vl4o3oI

Posted by: 600w | Nov 28 2023 13:06 utc | 244

Ordinarily this would be off-topic, but today it seems in keeping with the human wave codger offensive
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QNKoEHJHnm4

Posted by: Cortes | Nov 28 2023 13:19 utc | 245

Military summary report told about a new Ukrainian law regarding mobilization.
Whereas earlier the recruiters for AFU were known, the new law says that “commercial groups” may now conduct mobilization in Ukraine. That means the recruiters identity could stay hidden.
Earlier the problem was that recruiters were known and some people returning from the front took revenge or them, or because they were known, people could hide for them. The law is intended to remove that possibility.
Also the mobilization goals fell short at only 20% of intended.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 28 2023 13:22 utc | 246

It is true that the ratio of fit elderly people to fit youth is unexpectedly high in the West, but this is an abnormal and transient condition. The elderly grew up in a period before “everyone gets a trophy”. To earn self-respect took effort, and the ability to apply themselves to difficult tasks became part of their character at an early age. In a tragically misguided desire to provide offspring with a better life, children were raised with zero-effort lifestyles. “No scraped knees or callouses for my children!”, well intentioned parents declared. Unfortunately, this not only resulted in young people being weak and flabby in mind, body, and spirit, but also lacking the focus and self-discipline to do anything about it. Some young people will be able to overcome the inertia and the handicap of a late start to solidify themselves into mature humans, but a quick look around anywhere in the West should inform how rare that really is in practice.
Basically, some seniors trouncing some fey and dissipate youth who are leaking gender fluid probably doesn’t make a good argument for more Ukrainian seniors being sent to the meat grinder.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 28 2023 13:37 utc | 247

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 27 2023 23:12 utc | 154
Posted by: Konami | Nov 27 2023 23:26 utc | 157
I’m more sceptical than most here, NATO looking shit is nothing new yet Empire and its compradors endure and thrive, MIC gear being rubbish and / or ludicrously overpriced is also nothing new but the pressure on vessels is so great that cost-effectiveness is hardly a factor. When did anyone ever get, or expect, value for money in return for extortion?
The only recent conflict that genuinely looks to me like Empire’s plans getting derailed is Russia’s belated intervention in Syria, even taking into account the dismal ongoing occupation. Anyone convinced that Empire hasn’t got pretty much what they wanted in Ukraine will have to square their worldview with Barry Posen’s 1994 (!) “A Defense Concept for Ukraine” and RAND’s 2019 “Overextending and Unbalancing Russia”.
Empire fiends are laughing under their breath at the massacre of Ukrainians and Russians, the depletion of vassal military stocks to be replenished by new MIC sales opportunities.
As to things settling down Ukraine due to demographic collapse, that won’t hinder in the slightest the use of missiles and drones of all types, and as to Russia ending up with the world’s premier army, at what cost and to what end?

Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 28 2023 13:49 utc | 248

Has anyone seen the previously classified “faked insurrection” [40,000 hrs of security video footage released by the new speaker of house Johnson] described in this link? Has anyone heard if the entrenched bureaucracy intends to acquiesce to demands for immediate release of those convicted for involvement with Jan 6?
https://www.southfront.press/how-the-democratic-party-faked-an-american-insurrection/
what impact might this have on support for Ukraine. ?

Posted by: snake | Nov 28 2023 14:32 utc | 249

For all those fit lads in their 50s, 60s, 70s, you warriors, off you go, us old codgers, we’ll take care of yer women foke for yee, those that ain’t woke, they’ll get the joke while you wear the yoke……for King, Crown and Glory.
Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 28 2023 14:41 utc | 250

Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 28 2023 13:49 utc | 248

Well said

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Nov 28 2023 15:19 utc | 251

I think the overall discussion of Victoria Nuland’s hanging is misguided. Just as “Blessed are the cheese makers.” was meant to include everyone of the dairy profession, so too the hanging of Victoria Newland should generate a broad spectrum response to those responsible for war. For instance, such a plan might include eating the bankers that finance and profit from war. Roasted on spits with free beer in the public square would almost guarantee a good time by all while providing a practical solution to the world’s problems.

Posted by: Bryan | Nov 28 2023 15:32 utc | 252

RT is reporting Ukrainian claims that they used Patriot batteries to shoot down 5 Russian aircraft in May over southern Russia. At the time there was speculation that this was friendly fire as dowing the entire aircraft group seemed a difficult proposition for hostile missiles. The reason for the late admission was the US prohibition on using western weapons for attacks on Russian territory.
Perhaps the method was to use western AWACS or other ISR assets to locate the aircraft and allow the missiles to be launched without using Patriot targeting radars and only lock on the aircraft when in close proximity and too late for defensive measures. This would be similar MO to the recent Russian success in downing Ukrainian aircraft using this same combination.
If this is true then clearly the Americans assisted in the operation despite their public position on such attacks.

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 28 2023 16:09 utc | 253

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 28 2023 16:09 utc | 253
Ukraine’s primary task is to advertise American weapons. In conjunction with the habit to lie, it usually results in a lot of lies made in support of US weapons, in the goal of getting more support and weapons. That’s what is driving every AFU action and statement most of the time.
That said, PAC-3 has 40 km range, so maybe it’s possible but highly unlikely. They would have to be VERY close to the combat line, well within Lancet range or almost even some medium-long range standard artillery range. Ukraine has not used PAC-3 near the combat line, most of the time they have been spotted defending stationary targets far in the rear (perhaps also because the system is immobile and takes a while to relocate, pack and unpack). Maybe they used the RUAF friendly fire incident(s) and tried to claim as something they weren’t.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 28 2023 16:17 utc | 254

Btw, in the very first day or second day the AFU counter-offensive began. They had an IRIS-T air defense vehicle almost embedded in their tank force or rear. It was filmed and hit by a Lancet drone.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 28 2023 16:35 utc | 255

re fit codgers:
Michael Jordan was celebrated for his legendary leaping ability, as “Air Jordan”. on his last team during his playing days, the youngsters on the team began referring to him as “Ground Jordan”. sic transit gloria.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 28 2023 16:46 utc | 256

How funny.
In 1939 Poland got suckered into nearly the same trap as Ukraine. Promises from Brits and France and then …… NOTHING MUCH when the fighting started in September. Losses from the mistake HUGE.
http://british-history.co.uk/world-war-2/phoney-war
Leaflet dropping was one thing Ukraine did not try on the Russians. Perhaps they would have had better luck then Brits in ’39

Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 28 2023 16:58 utc | 257

@unimperator | Nov 28 2023 16:17 utc | 254
PAC-2 missile range 160km. Not sure what all the US provided.

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 28 2023 17:09 utc | 258

Tom 12 257: The British and French tried the same thing with Finland. But the Finns were clever, realized that the two could not help them against Russia as they should have and preferred to make a painful peace 1940 rather than risk the destruction of the country. Well, their cleverness ended 2023.

Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 28 2023 17:20 utc | 259

Well, their cleverness ended 2023.
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 28 2023 17:20 utc | 259
With people such as this leading the country we can only expect even better results than in Ukraine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdQMHhqM1iM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62638168
Negative my butt 🙂

Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 28 2023 17:28 utc | 260

It is reported that Speaker Johnson wants to steal Russian assets to pay for Ukraine. I think this is a great idea if it has the side effect of ending foreign Treasury sales.

Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 28 2023 17:35 utc | 261

https://bulgarianmilitary.com/2023/11/15/russia-has-embed-light-beam-eyes-on-the-new-lancet-drone-update/

… As reported by the Russian Telegram channel ‘uav_tech,’ “A Lancet modification has emerged on the battlefront, complete with LIDAR systems. This allows the Lancet to explosively engage targets as it nears them, with its cumulative jet then penetrating the target’s armor. This greatly undermines the effectiveness of meshes and grids. Furthermore, Lancets now possess automatic target recognition, made possible through neural networks,” stated the report. …

Lancet radio comms on a spectrum analyser:
https://twitter.com/HamWa07/status/1708599903360799209
Lancet and VT-40 kamikaze quad-copters are both great successes for Russia’s SMO effort, with Lancet specialised for long range strikes on enemy artillery units and other high value targets and VT-40 for low cost infantry support at 7..10km range.
If one wanted to quibble, it’d be fair to point out that Lancet’s ongoing development has come at a unit cost that is enormously higher than a straight parts & labour estimate, which necessarily restricts its use to higher value, lower volume usage, and VT-40, though cheap and plentiful, has only recently been made available with thermal camera for night operation, a requirement that must have been obvious from the outset.
Going on available information, there is not yet a drone weapon project that combines the rapid, ongoing development of Lancet with the low cost, high volume of generic designs like VT-40.

Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 28 2023 17:53 utc | 262

Hamish is getting very excited about the Abrams tanks. Expect to see a few of them burning in the near future..
https://news.yahoo.com/american-tanks-fighting-russia-time-143345011.html

Posted by: dh | Nov 28 2023 17:57 utc | 263

@Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 28 2023 17:20 utc | 259
The Finns were a bunch of stupid pratts by refusing to give concessions to the USSR around Leningrad that were balanced with Soviet concessions elsewhere, in late 1939. This was the same Soviet Union that had given them their freedom after the revolution! So the Finns ended up in a nasty little war and they ended up with worse terms afterwards. The nasty little war was a wake up call for the Soviets, and ended up leading to Soviet military improvements. Then the Finns entered the war on the side of the Axis against the Soviet Union, they were lucky not to be put under Soviet control.
Then they learnt their lesson and had a nice peace pact that lasted for more than half a century. But, just like the Baltics and the Poles given half a chance and the thought of a weakened Russia and they will chance their arm. The result will be the same, as when they let the Wermacht into their country, the new foreign bases (US) will refuse to leave if asked and they will end up getting smacked in the face.
F the stupid Finns, Baltics and Poland with their elite hatred of everything Russian maniuplated so well by the US to make them into vassals.

Posted by: Roger | Nov 28 2023 18:00 utc | 264

RT is reporting Ukrainian claims that they used Patriot batteries to shoot down 5 Russian aircraft in May over southern Russia. At the time there was speculation that this was friendly fire as dowing the entire aircraft group seemed a difficult proposition for hostile missiles. The reason for the late admission was the US prohibition on using western weapons for attacks on Russian territory.
Perhaps the method was to use western AWACS or other ISR assets to locate the aircraft and allow the missiles to be launched without using Patriot targeting radars and only lock on the aircraft when in close proximity and too late for defensive measures. This would be similar MO to the recent Russian success in downing Ukrainian aircraft using this same combination.
If this is true then clearly the Americans assisted in the operation despite their public position on such attacks.
Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 28 2023 16:09 utc | 253

Western AWACS doesn’t reach that deep.
But yes, something unusual happened there, and no, it wasn’t friendly fire, and yes, most likely it was some capability the Ukrainians didn’t have before.
However, how did they put a Patriot so close to the border? Those things are not exactly the highly mobile, shoot-and-scoot type of AD.

Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Nov 28 2023 18:08 utc | 265

@Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 28 2023 16:58 utc | 257
The Poles in 1939 were too arrogant for their own damn good! Hitler was asking for relatively small concessions but the Poles would not have any of it, and dreamt of joining with Germany to once again steal the lands of the Russians (as they had in the post-revolution period, and after the Time of Troubles) but then got cold feet and backed off such an alliance. Gave Hitler the excuse to invade, and the Soviets got to take back all the land that Poland had stolen after the revolution and moved the start line for Barbarossa much farther away from Moscow.
Just imagine if the Poles had made the concessions and allied with Germany! Barbarossa would have been kicking off from Minsk and near Zhytomir in what is now Ukraine, not Brest and Lviv and Moscow would have fallen in 1941 with extra millions of Polish troops fighting with the Wermacht. Germany would have obtained its lebensraum and Poland reclaimed its Commonwealth. Moscow was the hub of the Soviet train system, so its fall would have completely undermined the Soviet ability to transfer troops and material to the front and between fronts. The German supply lines would also have been much shorter.

Posted by: Roger | Nov 28 2023 18:20 utc | 266

Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 28 2023 13:49 utc | 248
I’m more sceptical than most here, NATO looking shit is nothing new yet Empire and its compradors endure and thrive, MIC gear being rubbish and / or ludicrously overpriced is also nothing new but the pressure on vessels is so great that cost-effectiveness is hardly a factor. When did anyone ever get, or expect, value for money in return for extortion?

Yes, the USA MIC gets away with anything and the extortion scheme works. But: the existence of an efficient competitor hampers the plan. As we see, China is economically more efficient and Russia is militarily more efficient. So that’s a problem. As soon as lofty digital money turn into real commodities (like grenades or drones), the US extortion scheme is put to the test. I don’t see how they can keep going on with it *globally*. I do see how they may be able to keep going on, and even double down, extorting EUrope, Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand. Living in a country of the former “first world”, I am not happy about that.
By the way, this is also my attitude towards the current ideology of wokism/climate: you can do this for a long time and on many people but it is a decrease in efficiency. Despite what they hoped for in 1990, there’s more than one system available now and their’s is not the most attractive one to many people/places.

The only recent conflict that genuinely looks to me like Empire’s plans getting derailed is Russia’s belated intervention in Syria

That’s indeed a very negative point of view. I am convinced that Washingon, Brussels and everyone in between was firmly believing the sanctions to “ruin Russia” (that’s a quote from the incredibly incompetent Anna-Lena Baerbock).

Empire fiends are laughing under their breath at the massacre of Ukrainians and Russians, the depletion of vassal military stocks to be replenished by new MIC sales opportunities.

All correct, yet Putin’s more firmly at the helm than ever; there’s no palace revolution in sight (despite Prigozhin/Rostow); no cheap access to Russian resources… from a Washington point of view, this could’ve gone much better.

Posted by: Konami | Nov 28 2023 18:21 utc | 267

Posted by: Roger | Nov 28 2023 18:00 utc | 264
The Soviets were on the verge of destroying Finland as their army was quickly crumbling. But the Soviet interests were in defeating Germany and couldn’t really care less. They offered Finland the neutrality and war reparation deal which ended the thing. It is falsified in history as a Finnish victory, which is probably one driver of suicide mentality today.
Dark future awaits regardless whether Nato opens limited theater or full war in that place.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 28 2023 18:21 utc | 268

@Posted by: Bryan | Nov 28 2023 15:32 utc | 252
You would need a lot of sauce and perhaps days of marinading to get Nuland to the point of being edible, so much vile hatred and twisted sociopathic angst to soften and cover up.

Posted by: Roger | Nov 28 2023 18:22 utc | 269

@shаdοwbanned | Nov 28 2023 18:08 utc | 265
Only happened once – a high risk maneuver that cannot be repeated once it has been revealed, and taking advantage of the opponent’s belief that there can’t be a credible threat mounted against them. I believe it was reported at the time that the Russians had used the same air corridor for several previous attacks, so a recognizable pattern had developed.

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 28 2023 18:24 utc | 270

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 28 2023 18:21 utc | 268
“It is falsified in history as a Finnish victory”
What history books are you reading? History is a bit of a hobby, but I have never seen such a point of view expressed. But I don’t read russian…

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Nov 28 2023 18:26 utc | 271

@Posted by: Augusto Pi | Nov 28 2023 10:08 utc | 226

Daily Mail already accuses Russia for Budanov’s wife.

Amazing that it wasn’t the incredibly deadly mythical Novichok that seems to have so many problems with actually killing people.

Posted by: Roger | Nov 28 2023 18:29 utc | 272

What a bunch of thumping chest old timers in this thread! In fact, Zelensky is right : send to the front all this 60-70 aged superfit bodies to show the youth how they should fignt.

Posted by: jean levant | Nov 28 2023 18:56 utc | 273

Roger 272: The best combat gas you can survive is actually Novichok, as the British discovered – but they probably only administered the completely harmless hydrolysis products – so that the blood test would be correct.

Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 28 2023 19:02 utc | 274

Posted by: Konami | Nov 28 2023 18:21 utc | 267
I basically agree with what you say but with a less optimistic slant. On sanctions, I’ll note that the distinctly EU belief in sanctions leading to a quick defeat of Russia can’t be squared with the publicly stated US goal of “to the last Ukrainian”. A quick resolution never favoured the US MIC or US asset stripping of its vassals (particularly the EU).
This leads me to believe that the hype around shock-and-awe sanctions was a fairytale for suckers who needed to be distracted as they were led into the glue factory, much like the story of a glorious Ukrainian counter-offensive that never included equipment that would have enabled Ukraine to cut a hole in Russia’s battlefield surveillance and artillery coverage, an absolute prerequisite for anything less than abject failure.

Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 28 2023 19:03 utc | 275

Silly season!
https://t.me/NovichokRossiya/42083

“The United States must once again lead the free world by ensuring that we do not export technology or goods that could be used against us.”
Liz Truss got in touch through an article in The Wall Street Journal and explained what needs to be done for the United States to regain world dominance.
According to the former British Prime Minister, who was in office for only 44 days (this is the shortest term in the country’s history), the West must provide Ukraine with weapons with which it will deliver a “knockout blow” to Russia. This, according to Truss, will be a direct message to “Russia’s patrons in China and Iran.”
Truss also said that the Americans should be led by a conservative candidate from the Republican Party so that world domination returns to the States.

https://t.me/NovichokRossiya/42086

⚡️Instead of joining NATO, Ukraine will be given guarantees⚡️
Former US ambassador to NATO and current director general of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs, Ivo Daalder, describes the impasse in Ukraine, which, in his opinion, could lead to the ultimate failure of Kyiv’s policy.
He proposes that individual countries provide security guarantees for territory controlled by Ukraine without joining NATO.
The expert also doubts the possibility of a breakthrough at the front in the near future and emphasizes that Moscow and Kyiv are not interested in negotiations to end the war. Daalder calls on the West to reconsider its expectations and focus on the future of Ukraine in the West, as well as on a stable supply of weapons to support the defense of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
He proposes to provide Ukraine with bilateral security guarantees from the United States and its allies in Europe, without necessarily joining NATO. This type of guarantee could take many forms, but would likely not be fully consistent with explicit articles in NATO such as Article 5 (involves the establishment of a system of collective defense where all member countries have the right to exercise individual or collective rights of self-defense).
The purpose of such an agreement is to reassure Kyiv and signal to Moscow that the security of Ukraine is critical to the United States and its allies.
👉wargonzo

Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 28 2023 19:11 utc | 276

I’m more sceptical than most here, NATO looking shit is nothing new yet Empire and its compradors endure and thrive
Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 28 2023 13:49 utc | 248
Well NATO can still actually deliver a lot of firepower, it’s not wholly a paper tiger, and in the western propaganda bubble (USA + Europe + assorted and wannabe à la Ukraine) many still believe it is hot shit anyway.
However while an ukrainian defeat won’t mean the end of NATO and might be memoryholed in the mind of western masses in a few weeks I bet that a lot of leaders and prospective leaders around the world will take note: american threats and promises of support will ring a bit tad more hollow…

Posted by: Satepestage | Nov 28 2023 19:13 utc | 277

Enough of this “old man” bullshit.
I was 28 when I had my first reservist callup, 3 days of Combat firing course, FIBUA and FOFO drills. I was sore and stiff for weeks after.
A basic drill is called “fire and move”.
Grab a piece of wood about 1.5m long and over 4 kilos. Learn to hold this in one hand. Lie on the ground in a prone position. Using the non master hand, push up to the plank position and simultaneously tuck your leading leg under and sprint off for 5 seconds or less and drop. Don’t use your knees but from a sprint to something like a forward lunge except lower, put non master hand on the ground and push legs down back to prone, think Burpees. Repeat for 30m or 50m or 100m.
Exactly!

Posted by: Suresh | Nov 28 2023 19:37 utc | 278

Rodger@272
Russia accused Ukraine of trying to poison officials in the new territories (likely true), so Ukraine makes (probably false) counter claim to deflect from their bad behavior.

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 28 2023 19:54 utc | 279

I’ll try again.
Has anyone seen (first hand, not bs media or the internet) any ex-Ukrainian crippled nazis in their local environment?
How many missing limbs and/or other features have you counted?
My result is zero.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Nov 28 2023 20:08 utc | 280

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ Front #Summary for 28 Nov 2023 by 19:01⚡️
🔹In #Kherson Direction, localised fighting continues in #Krynki, our forces storming AFU positions. Local reports say that the Russian Army is building up its forces at the #Poyma – #Krynki line, while the enemy’s artillery is not so active due to the weather. Attempts by our military to eliminate the AFU footholds cannot be ruled out. At #Poyma itself another Ukrainian SRG was hit during an attempted sortie.
🔹In #Zaporozhye Direction, after a slight improvement in weather conditions, the AFU artillery is working very powerfully. Ours note the highest density of strikes. Under the cover of fire the enemy is trying to advance near #Verbovoye, ours are holding the defence. At #Rabotino our fighters captured AFU militants, their equipment got bogged down in the mud during the retreat. New attempts by the enemy to attack near #Rabotino and #Novoprokopovka were again unsuccessful.
🔹In #SouthDonetsk Direction, our forces are pushing the AFU out of the landings at the #Priyutnoye – #Staromayorskoye line, with the initiative on our side. Over the past few days, our forces have managed to take control of important heights, worsening the enemy’s position. For this reason, the AFU is transferring reinforcements from the #Kherson direction to these lines.
🔹In #Donetsk Direction, on the southern #Avdeyevka flank. the Russian army took full control of the village of #Vinogradniki, the AFU withdrew behind the quarry to the northwest. Now the industrial zone bridgehead is reinforced from the south. Reports about the approach to #Severnoye are somewhat ahead of the events, according to the latest data to the village remained about 1 km. On the northern flank of the AFU, we again tried to counterattack in #Stepovoye, but our attempts were repulsed. Ukrainian channels say that according to the military the defence of #Avdeyevka is pointless, but Zelensky allegedly demands to hold the city no matter what.
🔹In #Bakhmut Direction, on the southern flank, our army continues to storm the heights near #Kleshcheyevka, the AFU is still holding on, heavy fighting is ongoing. Our artillery tries to prevent the enemy from bringing in reinforcements. At #Khromovo, the Russian assaults are also not yielding tangible results yet, but our military has the initiative.
🔹In #Svatovo Direction, fierce fighting near #Sinkovka continues. Our forces again tried to enter the territory of the village, which is destroyed. It is difficult to keep its territory under control, so the fighting is shifting southeastwards to #Orlyanka and #Pervomayskoye towards #Petropavlovka.
💥In #Odessa Region, a strike on a Neptune launching complex is reported. It would be good if the information would be confirmed.

https://t.me/sitreports/18723

Posted by: Down South | Nov 28 2023 20:20 utc | 281

Ukraine’s real ability to withstand the conflict will end by January, but the US authorities will deny its loss to the last. This was stated by former CIA analyst Larry Johnson in an interview with the YouTube channel Judging Freedom.
“No later than February is the deadline,” he added.
According to Johnson, the main factor for this forecast is the West’s reluctance to continue to provide financial support to Ukraine. In particular, he noted that verbal promises from Western countries do not always guarantee deliveries.
The former CIA analyst also noted that the administration of US President Joe Biden will deny this reality to the last. As a result, Western allies will gradually reduce the amount of assistance. The politician suggested that Zelensky had already been warned that there would be no more money due to the lack of success at the front.
Let us note that previously, former adviser to Leonid Kuchma Oleg Soskin said that the future of Ukraine is unenviable, since Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky constantly makes mistakes.
And so, Zelensky’s policy, which is destroying the country, today, in principle, suits few people. The West is upset by the failed counter-offensive, and Zelensky has become “toxic” for them. And although the president is still desperately trying to fight off the elections, and Ermak, as a “fallback” option, is preparing the ground for holding elections in one round, Zelensky’s rating is unenviable.
Because of this, all possible competitors are now weakened, and Bankovaya is trying to build bridges of “agreement” with Poroshenko’s supporters and oligarchs. Although, as you know, Akhmetov and Pinchuk are already beginning to turn away from Zelensky towards other political projects like Zaluzhny. Therefore, the struggle for power in the country has intensified.

https://t.me/first_political/61553

Posted by: Down South | Nov 28 2023 20:27 utc | 282

Our source in the OP said that a meeting was held at Bankova with the Head of the SBU about the situation in the Ukrainian army, due to the possible resignation of Zaluzhny.
Vasily Malyuk suggested that Andrei Ermak consider Russia’s experience in solving a similar case with Prigozheny, but to do this through the hands of the enemy would drain the movement of the Commander-in-Chief.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/20631

Our source in the OP said that the Office of the President began to model scenarios for the reaction of society and Western partners to the removal of Zaluzhny.
Bankova is most concerned about the reflection of the soldiers and commanders of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, which is why they began to withdraw some units from Kyiv and exchange them for controlled forces.
Zelensky’s statements about Maidan-3 were made specifically to shift any protests and coup attempts to the Kremlin, for a harsh reaction from the security services.
Andrey Ermak is least concerned about the US reaction, due to the latest Western claims against the Ukrainian government and the suspension of military/financial assistance.

https://t.me/rezident_ua/20637

Posted by: Down South | Nov 28 2023 20:30 utc | 283

Augusto Pi | Nov 28 2023 8:18 utc | 213 …
*** Every Nazi can make excuses.***
You can stop now, since nobody doubts your ability.
(though *quality* could do with improving)

Posted by: Cynic | Nov 28 2023 20:49 utc | 284

scepticalSOB | Nov 28 2023 9:47 utc | 220
*** Each pregnant woman soldier obviously counts as two individuals, but the foetus would be aged anywhere from -9 to -1 months, which would help lower the average age of our glorious fighting forces dramatically.***
It is a cunning invasion plan by Kiev …. the babies get born in Russian territory, so get Russian citizenship and then run an internal coup.

Posted by: Cynic | Nov 28 2023 20:57 utc | 285

A persistently repeated rumor claims that among the surrender company south of Avdeevka were 30 mercenaries, most of which Poles and two Americans. The Americans will be delivered to Moscow.
https://twitter.com/simpatico771/status/1729417678815650221

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 28 2023 20:57 utc | 286

There are signs that Ukraine could be nearing collapse. Astronomical military casualties, political faction feuding in Kiev, rumours of coups. Planning a Volkssturm type levee en masse, recruiting teenagers, women, the sick and disabled. Dead women are being found in their trenches. This was like Germany in 1944-5, battalions of deaf soldiers and men with stomach ulcers, 13 year olds. All their much trumpeted offensives have failed, like the Ardennes at that time.
America will do what it always does in these circumstances – Vietnam, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan. Just move on and pretend it never happened. Or churn out Rambo movies about how they really won after all. This will be coupled with another debacle in Palestine, as Hamas stubbornly refuses to be exterminated and survives, no matter how many civilians the IDF kiddie killers murder.
Apart from Ukraine, the real loser will be the EU. They will be left holding the baby. America, bored with the whole affair, will forget about Project Ukraine and move on to Project China.
Contd.

Posted by: anon | Nov 28 2023 20:58 utc | 287

@ Down South with another thanks for the reporting.
In reading the speculation of Western folks about when the end comes I wonder what Russia thinks about the end date and what reality on the ground says?
What is happening in Occupied Palestine only shows the growing desperation of empire to project its right to control by barbarism and control of global finance.
Capitulation on either front of empire’s civilization war will lead to capitulation on the other…..all without nukes, we hope.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 28 2023 21:06 utc | 288

“F*** the EU,” as Nuland said.
The EU will be left as an impoverished, de industrialised, irrelevant backwater, facing a revitalised Russia with an expanded military of 1.5 million along the borders of Poland and the Baltics.
Nordstream blown up, no cheap Russian energy, food, fertiliser and raw materials. No energy security, paying through the nose for US LNG “freedom gas.” Facing economic and financial collapse, its key industries closing down or relocating abroad. Millions more new refugees to cope with.
Sergeant Schulz and other EU clowns are panicking, talking of the need for a military build up, with money they don’t have, to take on Russia directly.
But what is the reality? The Wehrmacht made the world tremble, and even the Bundeswehr was impressive enough in the 1980s, with 12 army divisions and 4,500 tanks. But after VD Leyen finished wrecking it, the German Army is down to 60,000 men (most of them gays, trannies, wimmin and diversity coordinators) and THIRTY-TWO serviceable tanks. Britain has 70,000 and *40* serviceable tanks. It has no self propelled artillery – all its 30 SPGs were given to the Ukies. Finland is now faced with the need to spend billions to fortify and militarise its border after abandoning its neutrality. But don’t worry – the stupid cokehead bitch previously running the country has moved on to pastures new and found herself a lucrative sinecure elsewhere. The whole EU is producing 4,000 artillery shells a month – Russia somewhere around 300,000.
But don’t worry. Generalissimo Ben Wallace will probably make a comeback and take over from Grant Shapps. Then they’ll soon make short work of Johnny Russian and show Putin what’s what.
They don’t like it up em.

Posted by: anon | Nov 28 2023 21:23 utc | 289

Using the non master hand…
Posted by: Suresh | Nov 28 2023 19:37 utc | 278

non master hand? MASTER HAND? You sure had some systemicaly racict training in that thar army of yore… Nothing like that in the good modern army, I think.

Posted by: Poslan1 | Nov 28 2023 21:32 utc | 290

Posted by: anon | Nov 28 2023 21:23 utc | 289
“Finland is now faced with the need to spend billions to fortify and militarise its border after abandoning its neutrality”
And why is that? I have been reading here, and even Lavrov just said it. russia NEVER attacks anyone. NEVER, I repeat. So why would Finland have to militarise against non-existent threat?
Looks like instructions were not clear enough. No soup for you!

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Nov 28 2023 21:39 utc | 291

Speaking of military production, what if, and thats a big IF, nato cannot produce that many shells because they switched to drone manufactoring?
Im not speaking about immediate drone deliveries, but since russia has shown how devaststing cheap ones are, and the “ukraine“ has also proven that naval drones are a good area denial weapon, what if nato is building them en masse, while the ukrainian cannonfodder holds the line (to the last one)? They can send a batch once they feel comfortable enough. And those then can be used from basically any civilian building/park/playground etc. Theoretically nato could endlessly (more or, less, since those dont require much materials) use any building in the ukraine for terrorism on the cheap. So instead of the initial guerilla plan with javelinas and molotov cocktailinas, theyll switch to “kids with toys“?
Yes, russia can do the same and then some, but this will ultimately lead to the complete destruction and annexation of the ukraine, as the deliveries cannot be realistically stopped. Any car can transport a bunch. Any ship dozens. And this, in theory, can revitalize the eu industry. As those commercial drone manufacturers would get a big piece of the mic and cheap workers in all those “migrants“. Just a thought.

Posted by: Justpassinby | Nov 28 2023 21:45 utc | 292

Posted by: Suresh | Nov 28 2023 19:37 utc | 278
yeah i think people can retain their strength into late middle age, perhaps even improve. they just don’t retain their quickness or explosiveness or flexibility, their reaction times slow, all stuff that is vital in combat.
the bottom line, Ukraine is desperate and this shows it.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 28 2023 21:46 utc | 293

Posted by: Poslan1 | Nov 28 2023 21:32 utc | 290
dont know if you’re serious but he means the non dominant hand. people tend to be right handed or left handed.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 28 2023 21:48 utc | 294

dont know if you’re serious…
Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 28 2023 21:48 utc | 294

I was sure I haven’t been serious until you questioned it. Just in case: /s was definitely implied.

Posted by: Poslan1 | Nov 28 2023 21:52 utc | 295

Posted by: Poslan1 | Nov 28 2023 21:52 utc | 295
all good.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 28 2023 22:02 utc | 296

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Nov 28 2023 18:26 utc | 271
The Finnish line and army was collapsing and virtually non-existent in the last days of 1944. Soviets did not bother occupying the country because they were hurrying to Berlin.
Posted by: Justpassinby | Nov 28 2023 21:45 utc | 292
You might be correct. They may produce a lot of drones and send them off to targets in Russia from Ukraine. If it stays an open ended conflict it will simply be more likely over time.
However, regardless, this strategy is superimposed by the question at what point society gives up. A longer open-ended conflict also ensures more and more areas of Ukraine becoming depopulated, under-supplied of living goods and forced to relocate. Which will make it less viable for Nato as a battle ground. As long as Russia protects all its vital production inside Russia, the envisioned type of drone strategy will fail beyond causing random terror attacks on civilians.
On the medium term, Russia is going to need more air defense systems for sure.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 28 2023 22:11 utc | 297

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 28 2023 22:11 utc | 297
“The Finnish line and army was collapsing and virtually non-existent in the last days of 1944. Soviets did not bother occupying the country because they were hurrying to Berlin.”
Indeed. Though to be fair, they were also getting rid the germans in the north, according to soviet ‘wishes’.
Still, doesn’t sound like victory to me. So where exactly someone tried to present that as a victory?

Posted by: Membrum Virile | Nov 28 2023 22:19 utc | 298

Posted by: anon | Nov 28 2023 21:23 utc | 289

The Wehrmacht made the world tremble, and even the Bundeswehr was impressive enough in the 1980s, with 12 army divisions and 4,500 tanks. But after VD Leyen finished wrecking it, the German Army is down to 60,000 men (most of them gays, trannies, wimmin and diversity coordinators) and THIRTY-TWO serviceable tanks. Britain has 70,000 and *40* serviceable tanks. It has no self propelled artillery

Are you angry?
For me that’s good news, after all.
Ok ok I’m a little older, but for me less pig farms and less pork are much more dramatic news. Without meat in my soup I sure will miss GDR very

Posted by: theo | Nov 28 2023 22:26 utc | 299

Bryan @ 252, Roger @ 269:
Nuland’s corpse will only be good for burying deep underground in a lead-lined coffin or sending into outer space on a one-way ticket into a dwarf star or a black hole.

Posted by: Refinnejenna | Nov 28 2023 23:17 utc | 300