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November 26, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-285
Comments
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-prepares-army-mobilisation-reforms-war-drags-zelenskiy-2023-11-24/
They are about to throw dogs and cats at the Russians. I remember when the US tried to launch a civil war in Venezuela years ago with right wing agents trained in Ukraine, some time before the infamous guaidó, they used to try to scare chavistas with “tic tac tic tac”. Time has passed and even when consequences were terrible Maduro is still in power. It’s Cocainsky who is looking nervously at the clock
Posted by: Mariátegui | Nov 26 2023 14:44 utc | 1
“Reports for the morning of November 26, 2023
The Russian Armed Forces carried out combined strikes at the enemy’s rear at night with “Geraniums” and artillery weapons. Explosions were reported at the Mirgorod airfield in the Poltava region, as well as in the Kiev and Cherkasy regions.
An important event was the liberation of the industrial zone in the south of the Avdeevsky direction. The enemy has occupied it since 2014. Heavy fighting continues in other sectors of the front, and the enemy is forced to pull reinforcements into the Avdeevsky sack under the blows of our artillery and aviation.
In the Kherson direction, as a result of heavy fighting, it was possible to push back the enemy at Krynoki and inflict severe damage on the enemy infantry. In this area, demoralization of enemy personnel is also noted in the absence of supplies and adequate fire support from the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The enemy soldiers wounded on our shore are not evacuated; they report that the Armed Forces of Ukraine have been captured. Krynki were turned into ruins; they suffered the same fate as Pyatikhatki, Rabotino, Kleshcheevka, and Maryinka, where enemy soldiers were ground into brick chips and mud.
It’s been raining for the second day on the Zaporozhye front. The enemy sent small groups of infantry to Rabotino and Verbovoe. At the same time, the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine takes care of the armored vehicles: soldiers disembark from them at a safe distance from the LBS. As a result, the enemy retreated again, suffering losses.
At night, the enemy attacked UAVs in the Moscow, Tula, Kaluga, and Bryansk regions. In the Moscow region, UAVs were shot down in the Naro-Fominsk area, the Odintsovo urban district, the Podolsk urban district, and the Ramensky urban district. The DPR reported at night that the Nazis had attacked power distribution substations. In Donetsk and Yasinovataya, three civilians were wounded, incl. a boy born in 2012
The summary was compiled by: Two majors
@Slavyangrad
”
Posted by: GoverntheMente | Nov 26 2023 14:59 utc | 2
The Office of the President, through the publication “Left Bank”, launched an anti-crisis report at night on the “interview with zashkvar Arakhamia.” (We were just waiting for their “exit”, because we were immediately informed that Ze was dissatisfied).
This is what Daria Zarivnaya and Ermak came up with.
Main points from the article:
1. Arakhamia’s message about the Istanbul negotiations and Ukraine’s refusal to end the war in the spring of 2022, receiving back the territories up to Crimea and the LDPR in exchange for abandoning NATO – this is a “kiddo” for scanning the reaction of the masses (what’s the “kiddy” here and why scan the masses with such a stupid leak , it’s unclear. Most likely, the LB journalists simply made up this thesis and pulled it by the ears).
2. The message that Johnson had no influence on the refusal of the agreements. They say they were playing for time to screw over the Kremlin, which wanted the capitulation of Kyiv (the nonsense of the author LB. and an attempt by the office people to show their genius and independence in choosing a solution). They extinguish the fire by drawing “I can overcome.”
They hastily launched such a clumsy anti-crisis, as society realized that Zelensky and Ermak had dragged the country into a large-scale meat grinder because of their personal ambitions and to please their British patrons (Johnson). Zelensky’s rating has gone down.
We are watching… and waiting for step 2 from the OP with the dissemination of the main messages across the network with an emphasis on Bankova’s “victory and genius”.
Posted by: Down South | Nov 26 2023 15:00 utc | 3
Our source in the General Staff said that Ukrainian Armed Forces soldiers began to more often leave positions near Avdiivka and retreat to other positions, due to problems with supplies and low morale.
The industrial zone in Avdievka was given away without a serious assault on the enemy, the units simply left positions that had been preparing since 2014 and retreated to the city.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/20603
Colleagues, let us add your insight by saying that this was unexpected for the Office of the President and General Syrsky. Order to retreat or relocate the Ukrainian Armed Forces soldiers who held the “promka” in Avdiivka did not. This is purely their personal decision.
That is why Bankovaya and Syrsky sent new forces to recapture the industrial zone, but there was no success. The Russians repulsed the attack of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and began to gain a foothold in new positions.
Sad news comes from the Avdeevsky front, where the stranglehold abandoned by the Russians is slowly but tightening. Also, due to losses, shortage of ammo, heavy armor and artillery, the morale of the soldiers drops.
Zaluzhny immediately warned Zelensky about such a scenario, but headquarters decided to hold Avdiivka and throw reserves into the firebox, as was the case at Bakhmut. Now the city’s supply passes along one road, which is constantly under fire, and the soldiers do not understand why they are being thrown to certain death for the sake of political decisions.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/20605
Posted by: Down South | Nov 26 2023 15:03 utc | 4
RT morning edition: Zelensk* says Ukraine needs three victories “in negotiations with Western allies [d/b/a Price Cap Coalition] to maintain crucial $$$$upport”
• US Congress FY2024 $64 billion budget entitlement
• EU FY2024 €50 billion entitlement
• EU FYE2023 ascension “motivational step”
That’s not true. What Ukrainians need is an intervention.
Posted by: sln2002 | Nov 26 2023 15:41 utc | 5
Interesting sitrep from Simplicius, as usual…
What the Ukrainian conflict has taught the NATO controllers and their U.S. masters is that countries with a decent pool of human resources can be converted into a Janissary fodder army by endlessly equipping and financing them from the wellspring of Europe’s ‘inexhaustible’ central bank and fiat money spigot. The strategy combines the best of both worlds: third world human capital with European printable-on-demand finance to produce an expendable army which can be armed with fairly modern and sophisticated arms, to bleed Russia indefinitely.
https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/sitrep-112523-major-avdeevka-breakthroughs
Sometimes I fall through the rabbit hole with this martial dude, wondering how I landed smack in the middle of a NATO war room. “You can’t fight in here; this is the war room!”
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 26 2023 17:12 utc | 6
sln 2002 5: thank you for Mischa Paullin – simply wonderful. Only an offensive turned everyone’s favorite into a walking dead man who would be happy if he had remained an actor. The top military officials knew that this couldn’t be a success, but in Washington people seemed to lose their minds with joy over every dead Russian – for Blinken and his friends, Ukraine’s losses are apparently completely irrelevant.
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 26 2023 18:00 utc | 7
The Office of the President is bringing the issue of the resignation of the Commander-in-Chief into the public sphere, and this is being done by people’s deputy Andrei Ermak.
Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Valery Zaluzhny does not have a war plan for 2024 and if he does not provide one, he will have to resign, said the deputy head of the Verkhovna Rada Committee on National Security and Defense, People’s Deputy from the Servant of the People Maryana Bezuglaya, referring to a “non-public discussion” with the military.
“Yes, the Commander-in-Chief of the Ukrainian Armed Forces was unable to provide a plan for 2024.
Neither big nor small, neither asymmetrical nor symmetrical. The military simply said that they needed to take away at least 20 thousand citizens a month,” she writes.
According to her, “this problem grew over the summer, both at Headquarters and in parliament when planning the budget for 2024.”
“This discussion was non-public, but the tension was growing and now the situation is such that if the military leadership cannot present any idea for 2024, and all their proposals for mobilization boil down to the fact that more people are needed without the slightest proposal for changes to the Armed Forces of Ukraine system, then such leadership must leave,” the people’s deputy writes.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/20608
Our source in the OP said that the Office of the President conducted a closed sociology on the issue of the conflict between Zelensky and Zaluzhny, the majority of Ukrainians, 57%, supported the Commander-in-Chief and only 22% of the President, and 21% abstained. The issue of Zalkzhny’s resignation is not supported by 89% of Ukrainians and only 5% are in favor.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/20609
Posted by: Down South | Nov 26 2023 18:24 utc | 8
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 26 2023 17:12 utc | 6
Personally I think Mercouris is a more shrewd observer than Simplicius.
“a decent pool of human resources can be converted into a Janissary fodder army by endlessly equipping and financing them from the wellspring of Europe’s ‘inexhaustible’ central bank and fiat money spigot.”
No! I am surprised Simplicius would say this. As Mercouris often points out the problem is not money, it is resources, factories, workforce, logistics. And in my opinion something better than slack jawed cluelessness about military strategy on the part of the top generals
Posted by: Tim | Nov 26 2023 18:56 utc | 9
Oliver Krug | Nov 26 2023 18:00 utc | 7
They were real excited about killing Russians in Afganistan in the 80’s. I suspect this will not turn out for them very well either. The only thing that comes out of an attitude like that is chaos, disorder, death, and destruction.
Maybe that is the anglo american death cults goals.
Posted by: circumspect | Nov 26 2023 19:09 utc | 10
Posted by: Tim | Nov 26 2023 18:56 utc | 9
Right- there is the problem that fiat money does not produce anything unless the natural resources can be obtained with it and labor can be induced to work for it.
The western grift tax is a well-known constraint. Then there is the other issue of leaving a depopulated wasteland on the border of Poland, Hungary, and Romania.
All that western debt piled up on behalf of Ukraine will need to be either cancelled or shifted to other EU governments. Simplicius should have at least pointed out that dead consumers don’t consume and dead producers don’t produce.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Nov 26 2023 19:26 utc | 11
Victor vicktop55 @vicktop55
Abrams hunting season is open.
The first photographs of the Abrams tank somewhere near Kupyansk, this is primarily an incentive (and a very significant one) for our drone operators, ATGM operators and artillerymen. Now each group, each crew will protect its hunting grounds and will not share with a neighbor if suddenly a fat American comes to his land.
The same thing happened with Leopards, everyone wanted to hang the skin of a German cat on their wall, a fat American is a magnificent trophy, besides, now the destruction of armored vehicles is paid for, and the material incentive is important. Although the pleasure of hunting and the trophy are more important.
Posted by: SiDINE | Nov 26 2023 19:28 utc | 12
Nov 19, 2023 – Zelenskiy calls for operational changes to Ukraine military
Volodymyr Zelenskiy has demanded rapid changes in the operations of Ukraine’s military and announced the dismissal of the commander of its medical forces.
The Ukrainian president’s move was announced on Sunday as he met defence minister, Rustem Umerov, and coincided with debate over the conduct of the 20-month-old war against Russia, with questions over how quickly a counteroffensive in the east and south is proceeding.
“In today’s meeting with defence minister Umerov, priorities were set,” Zelenskiy said in his nightly video address. “There is little time left to wait for results. Quick action is needed for forthcoming changes.” . . .here
Defense Minister Umerov is a Crimean Tatar with no military experience.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 26 2023 19:44 utc | 13
The military simply said that they needed to take away at least 20 thousand citizens a month,
Posted by: Down South | Nov 26 2023 18:24 utc | 8
Strange, 20.000 , half KIA half out of action WIA , would only give 210.000 killed.
Either they’d become less wasteful or the losses so far would only have lost 210.000 Kia so far.
I’ll go for the less wasteful new normal
Posted by: Newbie | Nov 26 2023 19:56 utc | 14
Some TG reports today said AFU is digging trenches between Odessa and Nikolaev. That’s pretty far out from the current fronts.
But things usually can collapse slowly, until they don’t, so who knows.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 26 2023 20:02 utc | 15
The mainstream media seems to indicate that the main obsticle to peace is changing the mind of Zelenskiy. I hope that that’s not the case. I hope that Russia demands (1) the return of its $300 billion in foreign reserves plus (2) two or three times that in war reparations or punitive damages or sanctions compensations, and that American refusal of these terms becomes the main negotiation point in future peace talks.
Posted by: Esser | Nov 26 2023 20:02 utc | 16
“Defense Minister Umerov is a Crimean Tatar with no military experience.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 26 2023 19:44 utc | 13”
So what? Umerov is a figurehead for some sociopath general in Washington who makes all the real decisions and who need not worry about any consequences.
Posted by: Feral Finster | Nov 26 2023 20:04 utc | 17
Andrei over at his smoothiex blog says Kiev TV inadvertently leaked that Kiev lost 1,200,000 KIA/MIA so far. That seems far too high. Note these aren‘t Multi-million WWII size armies facing off. These are militaries with a few hundred thousand total forces and maybe 75,000 Front Line Ground pounders. 1,200,000 would be a staggering casualty rate. Therefore, I question it.
Anyone have insight ?
Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 20:07 utc | 18
https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2023/11/i-dont-think-it-was-mistake.html
“1,126,652 KIAs and MIAs for VSU. Somebody will have to answer for this atrocity and the main puppet masters sit in Washington and London and their names will be named at the Ukraine War Crimes Tribunal. Many will also be charged with crimes in absentia. In related news–this number is larger than US losses in all XIX, XX and XXI centuries wars combined. They are beyond comprehension of any US military, let alone, political figure.
The office of a 404 “president” reacted immediately and forced 1+1 to retract the story, but it is too late. It is also a number which many of us here played with based on available data. 404 is done as a state and as a nation. Washington now shifts blame to UK for sabotage of negotiations in Istanbul. Of course, when one has a cretin such as BoJo it is not difficult to do, but Washington doesn’t understand that real politics is done in real world, not in PR universe. Russia knows the names of puppet maters. SMO continues and Avdeevka is being mopped up, including Russian forces capturing Yasinovataya-2 station–an abscess which existed since 2014 and was used by NATO forces to shell civilian areas of Donetsk. It was also the most fortified area of all 404 front. The meat-grinder in Avdeevka for VSU continues and probably another couple VSU brigades will perish in coming days. Adds to the score and record of US and British operational “brilliance”. But then again, when one studies Zapp Brannigan’s operational art and strategy what do you expect?”
Posted by: chop | Nov 26 2023 20:11 utc | 19
Andrei over at his smoothiex blog says Kiev TV inadvertently leaked that Kiev lost 1,200,000 KIA/MIA so far. That seems far too high. Note these aren‘t Multi-million WWII size armies facing off. These are militaries with a few hundred thousand total forces and maybe 75,000 Front Line Ground pounders. 1,200,000 would be a staggering casualty rate. Therefore, I question it.
Anyone have insight ?
Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 20:07 utc | 18
Likely a typo.
This number is way too high.
KIA+MIA+WIA might well be around that number though.
KIAs around 400K is not unreasonable at all at this point, after the summer offensive, and after Russia being forced into rolling out progressively more gruesome weaponry. Watch out what happens now that the RBK-500s are flying.
P.S. These aren’t the multimillion armies of WWI and WWII, but these are the ultra efficient killing system of the 21st century. And that makes up for it.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Nov 26 2023 20:16 utc | 20
@ Feral Finster | Nov 26 2023 20:04 utc | 17
re: Umerov is a figurehead for some sociopath general in Washington who makes all the real decisions and who need not worry about any consequences.
Au contraire
. . .from The Hill, Aug 23
The Ukraine Defense Ministry asked for “ammunition, not advice” in a new video Thursday, following recent criticism from U.S. officials over Kyiv’s strategy amid a slow-moving counteroffensive.
“It seems like everyone is now an expert on Ukrainian warfare,” the Defense Ministry wrote in a video posted to X, the platform formerly known as Twitter.
While we appreciate all the attention, we’d like to humbly remind you that if we listened to what non-Ukrainians said in February 2022, we would no longer exist,” it added. “Thanks all the same. But we need ammunition, not advice.” . . .here
Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 26 2023 20:16 utc | 21
@Exile | Nov 26 2023 20:07 utc | 18
Andrei over at his smoothiex blog says Kiev TV inadvertently leaked that Kiev lost 1,200,000 KIA/MIA so far. That seems far too high. Note these aren‘t Multi-million WWII size armies facing off. These are militaries with a few hundred thousand total forces and maybe 75,000 Front Line Ground pounders. 1,200,000 would be a staggering casualty rate. Therefore, I question it.
Anyone have insight ?
Video from TV screen:
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/75773
The Ukrainian TV channel published information in a creeping line about more than 1.1 million dead and missing military personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
The channel’s management, after a call from Zelensky’s Office, apologized for the “typo.”
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 26 2023 20:24 utc | 22
The mainstream media seems to indicate that the main obsticle to peace is changing the mind of Zelenskiy. I hope that that’s not the case. I hope that Russia demands (1) the return of its $300 billion in foreign reserves plus (2) two or three times that in war reparations or punitive damages or sanctions compensations, and that American refusal of these terms becomes the main negotiation point in future peace talks.
Posted by: Esser | Nov 26 2023 20:02 utc | 16
This is silly.
Those $300B are crumbs in the grand context of what is at stake here, plus they are fictitious wealth that only exists as symbols on screens anyway. The computer giveth it, the computer taketh it away. Russia lost the real value corresponding to those $300B when it sent real oil, gas and other resources to the West in exchange for symbols on screens.
But again, that is irrelevant.
If you want to put a monetary value of what is at stake here, it is in the hundreds of trillions, but even that would be exercise in absurdity, because you can’t put a monetary value on your very existence; that is priceless.
Any peace deal now and Putin and everyone else in the current ruling clique should be immediately arrested by the real Russian patriots and publicly shot in the middle of the Red Square, then given the Nicholas II treatment in terms of burial.
Some TG reports today said AFU is digging trenches between Odessa and Nikolaev. That’s pretty far out from the current fronts.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 26 2023 20:02 utc | 15
That’s a positive sign. Let’s hope they know something we don’t know publicly and it is that the Kremlin is not going to do another grand betrayal.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Nov 26 2023 20:29 utc | 23
Posted by: chop | Nov 26 2023 20:11 utc | 19
There are a lot of dead unaccounted for, whose bodies are either unable or refused to be picked up or taken back by AFU (even when offered by RUAF side). The MIA makes up all the, as the name implies, missing-in-action, which are mostly those who were simply left in the fields, those who switched sides, deserted etc. Ukraine commanders by regulation retain all wages and family support of MIAs, which is why there is such a large incentive to allocate anyone possible into MIA numbers, and eventually, resulting in a large MIA number relative to official WIA or KIAs.
Posted by: unimperator | Nov 26 2023 20:31 utc | 24
NATO wants a military Schengen, so armies can move from one country to another easily. This way
A. The US army will be sent from Fort Bragg, North Carolina to Lampedusa, Italy, to defend the Italian border.
B. The French army will be sent to Eagle Pass, Texas, to defend the US border.
C. The Spanish army will be sent to Raja-Jooseppi, Finland, to defend the local blondes in case the Russians come.
Posted by: Passerby | Nov 26 2023 20:32 utc | 25
That’s not true. What Ukrainians need is an intervention.
Posted by: sln2002 | Nov 26 2023 15:41 utc | 5
Lol, both brilliant and funny, an uncommon combo for videos. Thank you for posting it.
“Mischa Mischa” is friends with Stef Zamarano, and friend of The Jimmy Dore Show, so Stef introed that video on Saturday’s episode of it.
Posted by: Babel-17 | Nov 26 2023 20:34 utc | 26
@unimperator | Nov 26 2023 20:31 utc | 24
Ukraine commanders by regulation retain all wages and family support of MIAs, which is why there is such a large incentive to allocate anyone possible into MIA numbers, and eventually, resulting in a large MIA number relative to official WIA or KIAs.
Therefore, there is every reason to believe most MIAs are in fact KIAs.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 26 2023 20:36 utc | 27
C. The Spanish army will be sent to Raja-Jooseppi, Finland, to defend the local blondes in case the Russians come.
Posted by: Passerby | Nov 26 2023 20:32 utc | 25
I think there will quite some volunteers for that mission. For Lampedusa less I believe.
Posted by: alek_a | Nov 26 2023 20:56 utc | 28
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 26 2023 20:36 utc | 27
Many of the MIA’s will be KIA’s that are impossible to identify, due to the destructive effects of modern weaponry, also how many ghost soldiers are included on the rolls. Afghan commanders had entire units made up of fictitious soldiers, with the profits being divided between them an d the families. One could imagine that soldier x pays a bribe to his commander to ‘disappear’, he’s then listed as MIA and sneaks across the border (more bribes), to live a subsidised life in Europe.
Posted by: Milites | Nov 26 2023 21:05 utc | 29
unimperator @ 24
This is a strange war, there doesn’t seem to be any time outs to pick up the dead, I recall a bit of that early in the SMO, and from Wagner in Bakhmut, but after the Kherson pull back I haven’t heard of anything regular. In WW1 they would have regular brief truces to clean up the mess a bit, I don’t even think there was a Christmas truce last year in the SMO. Ugly rancorous war, just like NATO wants it.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 26 2023 22:18 utc | 30
What I miss is the proposal for a European volunteer army modeled on the French Foreign Legion. But perhaps such an army of mercenaries – if one could agree on a reasonable high command, i.e. one from Poland, one from Luxembourg, one from France – would be too much of an increase in power for Europe for America to be happy with.
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 26 2023 22:23 utc | 31
@18 Exile
From reading all these reports from various sources at TG, TASS and the American video commentators (MacArthur, Ritter and the like), we should be accurate in stating there has been approx. 500,000 dead Ukies and Mercs with wounded and missing definitely more then that so…
You can see these Ukie cemeteries from space for god sakes!!
Posted by: bisfugged | Nov 26 2023 22:24 utc | 32
@27 Norwegian
I believe you are correct there. Unfortunately the people rebuilding the many cities that were razed to the ground will be finding bodies for years to come!
Posted by: bisfugged | Nov 26 2023 22:26 utc | 33
I love Andrei, but unfortunately he rarely if ever provides links, not sure why
Posted by: Kimo Loka | Nov 26 2023 22:26 utc | 34
@ Kimo Loka | Nov 26 2023 22:26 utc | 34
unfortunately he rarely if ever provides links, not sure why
I’m sure he doesn’t want you to see them.
Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 26 2023 23:10 utc | 35
NATO wants a military Schengen, so armies can move from one country to another easily.
Posted by: Passerby | Nov 26 2023 20:32 utc | 25
They also want to take away the nations VETO rigths.
That will be interesting when Nato/EU want to “strengthen” their presence in Hungary.
This reminds me of the Greek Delian League- Wikipedia
The Delian League, founded in 478 BC,[1] was an association of Greek city-states, numbering between 150 and 330,[2] under the leadership of Athens, whose purpose was to continue fighting the Persian Empire..
Naxos
The first member of the league to attempt to secede was the island of Naxos in c. 471 BC.[32] After being defeated, Naxos is believed (based on similar, later revolts) to have been forced to tear down its walls along with losing its fleet and vote in the League.
EU is allready at economic war with some of it’s members, withholding economic support for different reasons, LTBQ+++, military spending, not accepting middel east refugees….
so why not rigth out war?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delian_League
Posted by: Paul from Norway | Nov 26 2023 23:16 utc | 36
Norwegian@22…it likely a low number of accounted dead wounded, missing. The dead wounded ratios minimum will be low end 5:1 but it’s higher, based on front line reports over the past year from Ukrainians press ganged in to service. Many units lose up to 70% before they get rotated out. It was posted, newbies life expectancy on Ukie side is measured in hours. That 1.2 mil number was to prepare for the population for the enviable.
Wait till they find out the final tally…..if ever.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 26 2023 23:30 utc | 37
NATO wants a military Schengen, so armies can move from one country to another easily.
Posted by: Passerby | Nov 26 2023 20:32 utc | 25
The also want to take away the invidual country’s Veto Rigths.
That will make things interesting when Nato/EU want to “strenghten” their presens in Hungary.
Reminds me of the Delian League: Wikipedia:
The Delian League, founded in 478 BC,[1] was an association of Greek city-states, numbering between 150 and 330,[2] under the leadership of Athens, whose purpose was to continue fighting the Persian Empire after the Greek victory in the Battle of Plataea at the end of the Second Persian invasion of Greece.[3]
Naxos
The first member of the league to attempt to secede was the island of Naxos in c. 471 BC.[32] After being defeated, Naxos is believed (based on similar, later revolts) to have been forced to tear down its walls along with losing its fleet and vote in the League.
Posted by: Paul from Norway | Nov 26 2023 23:39 utc | 38
Posted by: eat shit vatniks | Nov 26 2023 23:42 utc | 39
Thanks for your insightful comment. I am in awe. Football (soccer) fan are you?
Posted by: Marduk | Nov 27 2023 0:01 utc | 39
A little ditty from Slavyangrad today.
Slavyangrad, [11/26/2023 8:22 AM]
The Hungarian king speaks:
Orban: One of the strengths of Americans is their ability to present what is really an American interest as a universal value. It seems like a small trick. But it has serious consequences intellectually, because if you frame foreign policy on the basis of values, hiding your interests, you deny yourself the opportunity for meaningful dialog. At the end of the day, one is not trying to align interests, one has to choose the values proclaimed by the other side. You can’t defend yourself against what you know are actually American interests, because then you have to argue against those values. That’s what happens day and night. We can’t have meaningful discussions on major foreign policy issues because no one is willing to commit to representing their own interest
Posted by: Ed | Nov 27 2023 0:12 utc | 40
Eat shit @ 39
Enough said.
Still, I think you should volunteer for the frontline and do some real damage.
I suspect the count is significantly higher than 1.2 million.
I am surprised Shadowbanned is back and not screaming for Russia to use tactical nukes? Wonder why?
Posted by: Suresh | Nov 27 2023 0:15 utc | 41
You are miserable faggot russian bootlickers, vatnik losers, i hope you will all die a slow, painful death, if i could id bash each and everyone of your faces into the pavement, pathetic sorry ass twats
eat shit and die
Posted by: eat shit vatniks | Nov 26 2023 23:42 utc | 39
————————————————————————
Look at what the opposition to MoA threw up. With knuckle draggers like that we lose.
Posted by: Ed | Nov 27 2023 0:18 utc | 42
————————————————————————
Look at what the opposition to MoA threw up. With knuckle draggers like that we can’t lose.
Posted by: Ed | Nov 27 2023 0:18 utc | 43
Sorry, I didn’t proofread before hitting the post button.
Posted by: Ed | Nov 27 2023 0:21 utc | 43
@ eat shit vatniks | Nov 26 2023 23:42 utc | 39
Was it something someone said here that upset you so?
Poor petal. Such a sensitive soul. 🙂
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 27 2023 0:29 utc | 44
eat shit vatniks | Nov 26 2023 23:42 utc | 39
————————————————-
Just a piss-poor loser who needs to grow up.
Posted by: Engineer-John | Nov 27 2023 0:38 utc | 45
When our leaders are out of touch with reality
[United States secretary of defense Lloyd] Austin is out of touch with reality. He’s delusional. He keeps talking about ‘oh yeah Ukraine took back all this territory from Russia and the Russians are getting just ravaged on the Battleground’. No they’re not. He can… walk out in front of a camera tomorrow and… declare that he’s a chocolate donut. Just because he says he’s a chocolate donut doesn’t make him a chocolate doughnut and he’s doing the same with respect to Ukraine… they’re using women including pregnant women on the front lines now because they don’t have enough men … if you were the manager of a boxer and your boxer is in the middle of the Ring just getting pounded you would call an end of the fight you’d throw in the towel to save the life of that boxer… Austin is not doing that at all they’re encouraging the boxer get out there keep punching even though you you are the punching bag you’re the one that’s getting clobbered but we need you to do this so we can try to hurt Russia. … the West is so Twisted in its anger towards Russia that it cannot see straight it does not see rationally anymore that that’s what is so disturbing because you can’t there is no opening or opportunity for any mainstream US politician democrat or republican to come out and say ‘….we need to broker a peace between Russia and Ukraine on this. Russia is not our enemy we have unfairly demonized Vladimir Putin and the Russian people we need to stop it we need to come up and find ways that we can cooperate.
Winning isn’t just about Killing and Destroying | Larry C. Johnson Nov 26
Dialogue works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWd_R7JbzXk
Larry’s home page: https://sonar21.com/
Could it be that endless wars are exactly what the ruling elite (apparently based in Israel) want & view as excellent methods for keeping the people divided, disturbed, & oblivious to the lack of truth, diplomacy & democracy, and the over abundance of Big Lies & barbarism?
“All I want is the truth, just give me some truth
I’ve had enough of reading things
By neurotic psychotic pigheaded politicians
All I want is the truth, just give me some truth” John Lennon
Posted by: Toby C | Nov 27 2023 0:43 utc | 46
This is a strange war, there doesn’t seem to be any time outs to pick up the dead, I recall a bit of that early in the SMO, and from Wagner in Bakhmut, but after the Kherson pull back I haven’t heard of anything regular. In WW1 they would have regular brief truces to clean up the mess a bit, I don’t even think there was a Christmas truce last year in the SMO. Ugly rancorous war, just like NATO wants it.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 26 2023 22:18 utc | 30
There was a unilateral Russian ceasefire on Christmas (much to the chagrin of everyone outside the Kremlin).
But the (not-)war was in fact even stranger in the beginning.
Remember how at the very beginning of the SMO RU forces went in with orders not to shoot unless shot at, nobody targeted military barracks, allowing AFU to escape, they were given countless opportunities to surrender, and many such other “humanitarian brotherly not-war” acts.
The current level of brutality is largely on the AFU. They started mutilating and killing POWs, doing grenade hate drops, targeting medevac teams, hitting large concentrations of manpower, and most recently, using cluster munitions.
And yes, this very much looks like something NATO wants, and may even have ordered — the more such brutality and the higher the death toll, the deeper the division between Russians and Ukrainians grows.
But this isn’t just on NATO, the Kremlin shares a lot of the blame.
As I am tired of pointing out, the war becoming a WWI-type bloodbath is on the Kremlin, for not preparing for it properly, not mobilizing on time once it became clear the initially allocated resource was not going to be sufficient, and for then making a mockery of “red lines” and doing nothing to block Western interference. Up until July 1st 2022 (Lisichansk capture), there was steady progress at a rate unimaginable now. But that is when the initial Russian resources exhausted itself, AFU mobilization started to have an effect, and Western weapons began to appear.
Also, early on Ukrainians were in fact surrendering in large groups. That ended once the Kiev propaganda machine was given such a gigantic boost by the series of goodwill gestures, which made them think they are going to win.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Nov 27 2023 1:24 utc | 47
feces connoisseur @39
You shiba puppies are so cute when you bravely bark at an image on a screen!
I think you twatter warriors should seriously consider getting a new hobby soon, though. The real world will continue to get increasingly frustrating for you if you keep your mental state hitched to the Nazis’ fortunes.
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 27 2023 1:28 utc | 48
Andrei over at his smoothiex blog says Kiev TV inadvertently leaked that Kiev lost 1,200,000 KIA/MIA so far. That seems far too high. Note these aren‘t Multi-million WWII size armies facing off. These are militaries with a few hundred thousand total forces and maybe 75,000 Front Line Ground pounders. 1,200,000 would be a staggering casualty rate. Therefore, I question it.
Anyone have insight?
Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 20:07 utc | 18
———————————————————-
Well, I will take a shot at it. This “information,” if it is that, was posted on a news crawl at the bottom of the screen on a Ukrainian TV show. It could have been a hack job by Russian hackers, if so kudos. But even if it was a hack job, that doesn’t mean that the content isn’t true, it could be an attempt to inform the Ukrainian public about facts that they do have due to Ukraine censorship.
Over the last 21 months, 1,260,000 Ukrainian people, including mercenaries, foreign volunteers, spies, saboteurs, KIA’s and MIA’s may be pushing the numbers a bit, but we don’t know that as a fact; but consider this as well: The crawl, if I remember it correctly, said 1,206,000 Ukrainian people are missing or killed since the start of the SMO on February 24,2022. This could include POW’s (even the ones who were exchanged for Russian POW’s) and deserters, and it could also include civilian deaths as well. I also suspect that there are a large number of AFU forces sitting in a Ukraine prison somewhere because they refused to sacrifice their lives as cannon fodder for no good reason.
I have no evidence to support this theory, but this is my wild guess on the subject. Of course, it could just be a false propaganda hack job.
Posted by: Ed | Nov 27 2023 1:41 utc | 49
Some videos for today.
Russian Black Sea Fleet aviation strikes enemy military speedboats and naval drones:
https://rutube.ru/video/9b3938c5ee92d4b83cdd1640c2b70a3f/
Russian drone strikes enemy trench on the southern DPR front:
https://rutube.ru/video/30b95b428d75202c078f2261fb02de4d/
Russian Lancet destroys another enemy howitzer:
https://rutube.ru/video/901af2b58ac8823da292dd55455d805d/
Russian Su-25s conduct airstrikes near Donetsk:
https://rutube.ru/video/d1fb329094bc5ba629a54ab7fd46be70/
Posted by: Nate | Nov 27 2023 1:53 utc | 50
That’s a positive sign. Let’s hope they know something we don’t know publicly and it is that the Kremlin is not going to do another grand betrayal.
Posted by: shаdοwbanned | Nov 26 2023 20:29 utc | 23
——————————————————————-
Shаdοwbanned, you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. In fact, I don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. You need to put a little more meat on those bones before I will consider anything you say is worth considering.
It doesn’t matter what you think about President Putin, it is the Russian voters that put him in office. Your treacherous minority of “Russian patriots” would all be captured and ripped to pieces by the majority that supports President Putin: Fool!
Posted by: Ed | Nov 27 2023 2:02 utc | 51
There is easily over 1.2 million KIA, MIA (under rubble or POW’s). They’re almost finishing up their 4th army now and even though pregnant women and 17 yr olds know how to throw grenades, the jig is STILL up for 404!!
Posted by: bisfugged | Nov 27 2023 2:19 utc | 52
@Exile | Nov 26 2023 20:07 utc | 18
Andrei over at his smoothiex blog says Kiev TV inadvertently leaked that Kiev lost 1,200,000 KIA/MIA so far. That seems far too high. Note these aren‘t Multi-million WWII size armies facing off. These are militaries with a few hundred thousand total forces and maybe 75,000 Front Line Ground pounders. 1,200,000 would be a staggering casualty rate. Therefore, I question it.
They sometimes report the killed and wounded as a total that gets confused with the total killed. As you chose to write it you wrote “lost” and a “staggering casualty” rate. Either term could be translated to both killed or wounded. If that is what is going on, I don’t think the number is not unworkably large on the face of it. And even if they said killed, it is apt to be killed and wounded. That happens.
Posted by: Jmaas | Nov 27 2023 2:39 utc | 53
Z and V, [11/26/2023 10:42 AM]
‼️🇫🇲🏴☠️ HOW SENIOR OFFICERS OF THE THIRD REICH MADE CAREERS AT THE END OF THE WAR…
https://t.me/photosvideoszv/447
These are some senior Third Reich officers who were hired (https://www.voltairenet.org/article180885.html) directly by NATO. We can see how they articulated their careers within Nazi Germany and later within the largest terrorist and warmongering agency in the World:
Adolf Heusinger: (https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/adolf-heusinger)
➡️ Chief of Operations of the Wehrmacht General Staff.
🇫🇲🏴☠️1961-1964 Chairman of the NATO Military Committee.
Hans Speidel: (https://spartacus-educational.com/GERspeidel.htm)
➡️ Former Nazi lieutenant general and the chief of staff of one of the most important field marshals, Erwin Rommel.
🇫🇲🏴☠️1957-1963 Supreme Commander of NATO Allied Ground Forces in Central Europe.
Johannes Steinhoff: (https://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/23/obituaries/gen-johannes-steinhoff-80-dies-helped-rebuild-german-air-force.html)
➡️ Luftwaffe aviation ace on the eastern front.
🇫🇲 1971-1974 Chairman of the NATO Military Committee.
Johann von Kiehlmansegg:
➡️ Staff officer (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_von_Kielmansegg) of the Wehrmacht High Command.
🇫🇲🏴☠️ 1967-1968 NATO Commander in Central Europe. (https://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/04/world/europe/04kielmansegg.html)
Ernst Ferber:
➡️ Inspector of the Wehrmacht (https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Ferber) High Command.
🇫🇲🏴☠️ 1973-1975 Commander of NATO in Central Europe. (https://www.nytimes.com/1964/06/05/archives/german-is-given-a-key-nato-post-heads-unit-that-gives-plans-role-to.html)
Karl Schnell:
➡️ Staff officer of the
Wehrmacht (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl-Heinz_Schnell) Tank Corps.
🇫🇲🏴☠️1975-1977 Commander of NATO in Central Europe. (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nato.int/cv/ace-k-p.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwim7NaR48D-AhXGi_0HHfuIDSQQFnoECA4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1y4eRO3uGSNKmowUaF9loG)
Franz-Josef Schultze: (https://www.deutsche-biographie.de/pnd189556404.html?language=en)
➡️ Luftwaffe officer, Knight’s Cross.
🇫🇲🏴☠️ 1977-1979 NATO Commander in Central Europe.
Ferdinand von Saenger und Etterlin: (https://www.deutsche-biographie.de/pnd123609372.html?language=en)
➡️ Adjutant of the Supreme Command of the Wehrmacht.
🇫🇲🏴☠️1979-1983 NATO Commander in Central Europe.
Posted by: Ed | Nov 27 2023 2:47 utc | 54
Re: Posted by: Ed | Nov 27 2023 2:47 utc | 55
Seems smart.
Why wouldn’t you take the soldiers from your former adversary and put them in your army?
Much better than wasting them – see Iraq in 2003 for an example of what happens when you disband your adversary’s army for no good reason.
Posted by: Julian | Nov 27 2023 2:56 utc | 55
Ed @50:
Early in the conflict there was a Ukrainian vlogger whom I loosely followed whose posts were occasionally translated to English. He would take calls from Ukrainians and try to match them up with resources from other callers. One thing I noticed was that many of the callers were looking for missing family, loved ones, or friends. There were ridiculous numbers of regular civilians who were just “disappearing” in the Ukraine. I suppose some of those missing people were making a dash for “The Garden”, and some of them were getting press-ganged by Nazi goon squads, but in other previous CIA directed genocides large numbers of people identified as potential opponents of the CIA’s fascist regime would be collected up and “liquidated” by the CIA’s death squads. Some evidence online suggests this was happening, and probably continues to happen, on a large scale in the Ukraine as well.
Basically, I think the 1.2 million dead is probably a very conservative number at this point. Most of the Nazis’ crimes are not yet investigated, and evidence for individual murders by death squads is systematically destroyed and covered up. It will take a long time for the true scale of the Nazis’ (and CIA’s) crimes in the Ukraine to be uncovered.
Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 27 2023 3:00 utc | 56
Maybe that is the anglo american death cults goals.
Posted by: circumspect | Nov 26 2023 19:09 utc | 10
How would anglo american be a more relevant descriptor than zionist / jewish ?
It wouldn’t.
Posted by: ryanggg | Nov 27 2023 3:03 utc | 57
The figure of >1.2 million lost souls may include those Ukrainians who were (a) sold into sex slavery during the conflict, and who are subsequently murdered and liquefied when their worth expires, or (b) involuntarily separated from their essential internal organs by the Talmudist organ harvesters at work in the Ukraine.
Posted by: Matthew | Nov 27 2023 3:21 utc | 58
shаdοwbanned | Nov 27 2023 1:24 utc | 48 ….
Ukronazis and the IDF would seem to have very much in common.
Posted by: Cynic | Nov 27 2023 4:00 utc | 59
Matthew | Nov 27 2023 3:21 utc | 59
***.. involuntarily separated from their essential internal organs by the Talmudist organ harvesters at work in the Ukraine.***
Is it true that the new (and probably lunatic) President of Argentina wants to make such “trading” a major industry there?
Posted by: Cynic | Nov 27 2023 4:10 utc | 60
@ 48
If you grow tired of repeatedly stating doomer nonsense & slander.
Stop doing it.
If you and other been right, then the RF would’ve lost the war ten times over…
Posted by: Urban Fox | Nov 27 2023 4:22 utc | 61
⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦⚔️ Front #Summary for 26 Nov 2023 by 19:21⚡️
🔹In #Kherson Direction, our forces from the west gradually forcing the AFU out of the central part of the #Krynki village. From the right bank the AFU artillery is methodically working on our few units, while the enemy has no opportunity to expand the zone of control. Or stable supply and replenishment is making it as difficult as possible. This night ours hit another AFU group on boats while trying to sneak along the #Konka River to #Krynki.
🔹In #Zaporozhye Direction, episodic localised counter battles with no changes in the frontline. Movement of armoured vehicles is practically paralysed. The activity of artillery has decreased by multiples. Without aerial recon the accuracy is significantly reduced, we do not waste shells. Poor soldiers, mud, cold, water filled trenches and uniforms that don’t dry out.
🔹In #Donetsk Direction, our army tries to launch localised attacks near #Novomikhaylovka, #Pervomayskoye and #Maryinka, unfortunately without any significant advancement so far. Our fighters have accomplished another military feat by taking full control of the territory of the #Avdeyevka industrial zone. Ukrainian channels reported that the AFU almost without a fight abandoned positions they had been building since 2014 and withdrew into the city.
▪️ The industrial zone on the southern outskirts was the most powerful AFU fortification, which has been one of the key points of confrontation between the AFU and the DPR Militia for nearly a decade. By liberating this territory, our military deprived the enemy of a heavily fortified and perfectly prepared defence line in the south, plus it is also located on a hill. Now, from the heights of the industrial zone, ours can more accurately adjust the work of artillery and exert more powerful and deliberate pressure in the direction of Tsarskaya Okhota and the former air defence base to the west. The capture of the industrial zone is a significant event, our guys did a great job.
▪️ Now our forces continue the clearing of ST Vinogradniki Station on the southern flank. The settlement is half encircled. On the northern flank our fighters are entrenched on the outskirts of #Stepovoye. The enemy is still repelling our new attacks at the Coke Plant. The work of our artillery and aviation continues.
🔹In #Bakhmut Direction, near #Kleshcheyevka, our artillery is working very powerfully in conjunction with drone operators. Ours are hitting Ukrainian dugouts. On the ground, our forces have taken new positions, but the enemy still controls the key heights. In other areas around #Bakhmut no changes.
🔹In the #Svatovo Direction, due to rain and thaw, equipment from both sides is hardly used, although the long awaited AFU Abrams tanks have been spotted. In the #Serebryanskoye forest, the AFU tried to conduct a recon battle, but after receiving a serious rebuff from ours, they withdrew. The AFU counterattacks near #Sinkovka were also unsuccessful. At #Torskoye, artillery duels and localised fighting are ongoing without any advances.
Posted by: Down South | Nov 27 2023 4:41 utc | 62
Our source in the OP said that the Office of the President did not expect such a reaction in society to the statement of People’s Deputy Bezugla about Zaluzhny’s resignation.
An urgent meeting is being held at Bankova on how to stop the scandal, the working option is the personal opinion of the people’s deputy, and the radical exclusion of her from the faction.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/20614
On social networks they began to demand that the people’s deputy resign from her mandate for her statement; society is completely on Zaluzhny’s side.
Bankova lost the information track, and the attempt to test the public’s reaction only angered people. Maidan-3 is Bezugla!
https://t.me/MediaKiller2021/10408
The technologists of the Office of the President have long lost touch with reality; in the Zelensky-Zaluzhny conflict, the Ukrainians are on the side of the Commander-in-Chief, it’s not even worth talking about the military.
The Servants of the People now have only one chance to stop the scandal – to kick the fool out of the Rada.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/20613
Statements by the people’s deputy from the “Servant of the People” Maryana Bezugla calling for the resignation of the commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Valery Zaluzhny caused a flurry of criticism of the authorities on social networks,
A well-known activist close to Western structures, founder of the StateWatch organization Alexander Lemenov, threatened the Ukrainian government with a military coup.
“What can be said about this style of communication? I don’t have enough words to describe… They will finish the game. We will lose more territories. But not all, far from all. And in Kiev the government will really change, but not to Russian, but to military.
However, I am categorically against this style of discussion. Some people forget who holds the front. Not people’s deputies, but the Armed Forces of Ukraine,” Lemenov wrote, commenting on Bezugla’s post.
https://t.me/rezident_ua/20612
Posted by: Down South | Nov 27 2023 4:47 utc | 63
Meanwhile, weather in Crimea has taken its toll as well:
⚡️Almost half a million residents of Crimea were left without electricity due to storm winds.
Adviser to the head of Crimea Oleg Kryuchkov reported this.
⚡️The peak of the storm in Sevastopol is still ahead ; there may be minus temperatures at night.
This was stated by the governor of Sevastopol Razvozhaev.
According to him, by this hour 3 people had been injured in the city and they were hospitalized.
Due to the storm, 63 trees, 3 billboards fell, the roofs of 20 houses, the facades of 3 buildings, and 17 vehicles were damaged.
The major cleaning of Sevastopol will begin as soon as the peak of the disaster has passed, and the operational headquarters will continue to work throughout the night.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/75856
Unfortunately, the weather in Crimea is not about to get any better. Or for much of the rest of Ukraine/Western Russia. This will affect the RF and the AFU in their plans.
The hydrometeorological center warned of dangerous weather in the European part of Russia.
According to the scientific director of the Hydrometeorological Center Roman Vilfand, heavy snow, sleet, snow drifts, ice, sleet, and winds of up to 15-20 m/s are predicted in all regions of the Central Federal District. In the Astrakhan and Volgograd regions, heavy snow, blizzard, wind up to 13-18 m/s are expected, in Crimea – very heavy precipitation in the form of rain, sleet and snow, wind up to 35-40 m/s in the mountains, in the Rostov region and Stavropol region – wind gusts up to 24-28 m/s.
In the Perm Territory, Kirov Region and Tatarstan, snow, sleet, rain, freezing rain and sleet are forecast on Monday.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/75869
Posted by: Down South | Nov 27 2023 4:52 utc | 64
Ukrainian television channel 1+1 gives Ukrainian casualty figures – killed in action plus “missing in action”, that is, captured, deserted, plus the overwhelming majority killed but not declared killed in order to avoid paying compensation – as 1,126,652. Yes, one million, one hundred and twenty six thousand, six hundred and fifty two. No wonder Elensky’s sending pregnant women into the meat grinder now.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 27 2023 4:52 utc | 65
I don´t want to be in the position of Moscow right now.
If they agree to peace they will be attacked again in 10 years and that might end badly for all sides.
If they disagree 30 mio. Ukrainians will hate them even more and the antiwar movement in Europe will have to take another blow.
(How are you going to explain in 90 seconds on some fucked TV news show why peace is a lie de longue durée)
This article originally in German
https://www.german-foreign-policy.com/news/detail/9416
“The strategy of containment
According to a report, Washington and Berlin are pushing for negotiations between Kiev and Moscow. US experts call for a transition from war to a “strategy of containment” against Russia.”
BERLIN/KIEV (Own report) – Pressure is growing in Germany and the United States for Kiev to no longer refuse to negotiate a ceasefire with Moscow. As reported at the end of last week, the governments of both countries are seeking a transition to such negotiations, but would like Kiev to initiate them itself without being publicly called upon to do so. An invitation would make a mockery of the West’s constant assertion that Ukraine decides on its own course of action. The plan to initiate talks with Moscow takes into account the failure not only of the Kiev counter-offensive, but also of the Western sanctions against Russia: as it is not possible to help the Ukrainian armed forces to victory on the battlefield or to wrestle Russia down economically, experts have been recommending a transition to a policy of containment for some time. This should freeze the current military situation without formally ceding Ukrainian territories to Russia. It should be accompanied by a massive rearmament of NATO. For Germany, experts are calling for a “change of mentality”; Berlin is insisting on “readiness for war”.
The end of magical thinking
On November 16, Eugene Rumer, a former Russia expert in the US intelligence services, and Andrew S. Weiss, a Russia expert in the US administrations of George H.W. Bush and William Clinton, explicitly called for a shift to a “strategy of containment” towards Russia in an article for the Wall Street Journal. In the West, governments had all too often indulged in “magical thinking”, wrote Rumer and Weiss: they had “relied on sanctions”, on “isolating Russia diplomatically”, on “a successful Ukrainian counter-offensive”, on “new types of weapons” [1]; an example of the latter was the German enthusiasm for the delivery of Leopard battle tanks (“free the Leopards!”). None of this has led to success, the two experts state; the counter-offensive has failed, the Russian economy is doing better than expected and President Vladimir Putin continues to be supported by the population. It is therefore necessary to change course and prepare for a long-term power struggle. To this end, Ukraine must continue to be supported and upgraded; the sanctions against Russia must remain in force; Moscow must be consistently isolated. Instead of hoping for quick military successes in Ukraine, the NATO states must massively arm themselves – against Russia.
A change in mentality
Two experts from the German Council on Foreign Relations (DGAP) recently called for such a massive arms build-up. According to them, NATO and the Federal Republic of Germany need “a strategy that focuses on the earliest possible deterrence” and can fall back on highly equipped armed forces in just a few years.[2] This requires a “quantum leap”, they say: the German government must “strengthen the Bundeswehr in terms of personnel within the shortest possible time”, “expand arms production” and, above all, “improve resilience”. “The prerequisite for this is a change of mentality in society,” the DGAP paper states. However, this can only be initiated “if overall defense becomes part of everyday life in politics, business and civil society”. This would require involving the population in the process, which could be done “through competitions, further education, training camps” or “other interactive formats”. A “mandatory internship for all people aged 18 to 65 living in Germany” in the field of “overall defense” is conceivable. The call for a change in mentality corresponds to the fact that Federal Minister of Defence Boris Pistorius wants to see German society “ready for war” and the new defense policy guidelines expressly support this[3].
Goals and means
With regard to the situation in Ukraine, two other influential US experts presented their thoughts on US strategy on the website of Foreign Affairs magazine on November 17. Richard Haass, former President of the Council on Foreign Relations, and Charles Kupchan, ex-employee of the US National Security Council under President William Clinton, judge that Kiev and the West are “no longer on a sustainable path”. The Ukrainian war aims – the recapture of Crimea and the Donbass – are “strategically out of reach, certainly for the near future and very likely beyond”.[4] In addition, “the political willingness to continue to provide military and economic support to Ukraine has begun to erode in both the US and Europe”. The “glaring discrepancy between the goals and the available means” is striking. The United States must now work with Ukraine to “move to a new strategy that reflects military and political realities”. If this does not happen, Kiev risks losing the support of the West as a whole in the long term, with very far-reaching consequences, the two authors warn.
From attack to defense
Haass and Kupchan consider Ukraine’s willingness to “negotiate a ceasefire with Russia” and at the same time shift its military focus “from attack to defense” to be unavoidable.[5] It is not a matter of officially giving up territory, the authors explain. Kupchan had already explicitly pointed out in June [6] that it is possible to stop fighting while retaining claims to territory; he cited the Federal Republic of Germany as a “historical analogy”: The latter had in fact never given up its claim to the territory of the GDR during the Cold War. Another parallel is Korea, where a ceasefire has prevailed for decades without South Korea ever relinquishing its claim to the North. However, as Haass and Kupchan conclude, Ukraine must now “recognize that its short-term priorities must shift from trying to liberate more territory to defending and restoring more than 80 percent of the land it still controls”. A ceasefire would be helpful, possibly even necessary. Last but not least, such an approach would “demonstrate” that Kiev has an “applicable strategy with achievable goals”; this would also help to secure Western support in the long term.
“Of their own free will”
This line of thought is not only linked to considerations recently expressed by a former advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, Oleksiy Arestovych, in an interview with Stern magazine. Arestovych spoke of a “dead end on the battlefield”, judged that it was time to “sit down at the negotiating table” and advocated following the example of the Federal Republic of Germany during the Cold War: “The return of the occupied territories” could be “pursued by political means”.[7] Plans by the US and German governments, reported on by the Springer newspaper Bild at the end of last week, also correspond to this model. The aim is now to initiate negotiations with Russia. However, the Ukrainian president should “come to the realization himself” that “things can’t go on like this”, a Berlin insider is quoted as saying: Zelenskyi “should address his nation of his own free will and declare that negotiations are necessary.”[8] This is considered inevitable, as the West has always said that it always follows the Ukrainian will and does not impose any requirements on Kiev; a departure from this would be difficult to sell to the public.
Pressure
However, precautions are to be taken that are likely to induce Zelensky to change course as desired by the West. It is said that only the exact number of weapons required for defense should be delivered[9] and that “a frozen conflict without agreement between the conflicting parties” is the alternative. It would wear Ukraine down and probably force Kiev to give in sooner or later. Officially, the content of the “Bild” report is still being denied. However, experts are increasingly calling for a ceasefire – less frequently in Germany, more often in the USA.
Posted by: AG | Nov 27 2023 4:57 utc | 66
German nespaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung reports today that Finnish firms are busy busting sanctions against Russia. Was the idea to bankrupt Finnish or Russian firms? After the expkosion of Nord Stream 2 answer is anything but obvious.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 27 2023 6:42 utc | 67
History rhymes again
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/75846
Hurricane, frost, snow and blizzard: In Odessa region Putin uses winter as a weapon!
Napoleon’s army in 1812 during the attack on Moscow was caught in a terrible winter with temperatures below -30C , ref Minard’s diagram. In 1942, Operation Barbarossa was going well when the Russian Winter Froze Hitler’s Nazi Empire in Its Tracks.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2023 7:16 utc | 68
https://twitter.com/mylordbebo/status/1728903159274446946?s=46&t=Q3L0S8dsgKv0U4okft7vEA
Russian soldier evacuates wounded Ukrainian PoW from the line of fire.
English subtitles.
Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 27 2023 8:02 utc | 69
Ukraine Weekly Update 24th Nov: in case you missed it: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-e26
Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Nov 27 2023 8:16 utc | 70
@27 Norwegian
I believe you are correct there. Unfortunately the people rebuilding the many cities that were razed to the ground will be finding bodies for years to come!
Posted by: bisfugged | Nov 26 2023 22:26 utc | 33
RT did a documentary, dated Sep 17, 2023, called “Voices From the Grave”. It follows a team in the Donbass. They interview the living to find & dig up the civilians killed by the Uke forces who ended up being buried by other civilians in various yards and fields. The team was doing forensics and attempted identification. Not sure if this link will post: https://www.rt.com/shows/documentary/583089-donbass-war-crimes-victims-graves/
Very sad, but worth viewing. Nothing overly graphic that I recall.
I also recall reports of the Russian side bagging and sending home Ukrainian remains from liberated areas, when the front has moved forward.
Posted by: retroflecks | Nov 27 2023 8:26 utc | 71
You are miserable faggot russian bootlickers, vatnik losers, i hope you will all die a slow, painful death, if i could id bash each and everyone of your faces into the pavement, pathetic sorry ass twats
eat shit and die
Posted by: eat shit vatniks | Nov 26 2023 23:42 utc | 39
From a humanitarian perspective, I was convinced over a year ago, that the best possible outcome of this utter mess, will be the defeat or surrender of Ukraine by/to Russia.
IF Ukraine “wins” in its current configuration: Ukraine will have (a) completely lost its sovereignty to the NATO empire, (b) be on the hook for several hundred billion dollars to be repaid to the West — the grandchildren of Ukraine today will still be paying the balloon loan, and (c) all of the profit producing assets have been sold to foreign interests (Monsanto, Cargill, BlackRock). Ukraine’s grandchildren and further will have no possible way to earn money to pay back these loans, other than the grandsons dying as cannon-fodder in the West’s future foreign wars, and the granddaughters becoming a hereditary whore-class. THAT is the future that Ukrainians are fighting and dying for.
On the other hand, if Ukraine “loses” to Russia: Ukrainians can stop dying; all western debts will be forgiven; a more-representative government can be formed; and Ukrainian grandchildren can expect a future with dignity.
I pray every single day for Ukrainians to stop fighting (by either defeat or surrender). I do this with sympathy for the Ukrainian peoples.
Posted by: retroflecks | Nov 27 2023 8:50 utc | 72
@ 64
Our source in the OP said that the Office of the President did not expect such a reaction in society to the statement of People’s Deputy Bezugla about Zaluzhny’s resignation.
Actual dictatorial states revolve around the cult of personality, so does the UK, EU, and USA propaganda machine and crass media (draw your own conclusions) when you plow that row you reap that harvest for good or ill, history usually says ill, but for sure you tie your hands. It’s the opposite of a force multiplier, but the Nazi mind never sees that.
I’ve no idea what Zaluzhny’s real qualifications, faults, and virtues are but putting a military leader on a pedestal is always a bad idea, besides the Julius Caesar thing happening, bad shit happens to even good leaders, terrible leaders might have a string of successes, and at the level of top military leaderships the positions are as much political as military, the last thing you want is factionalism and sniping inside the command, exactly what we are seeing. “Built to NATO standards” is as much a fail in Kiev as on the battleground.
Russia has it right here, the military leaders are kept low key, out of the limelight, easy to demote, promote or eliminate, it’s practically bureaucratic, no pumping up in politics, no factions, allowing changes even brusk ones without damaging public and military morale. Indicative of which side of the new Iron Curtain is totalitarian.
Oh, and I think this is exactly where Prigozhin overstepped, and Russia nipped it in the bud, if he was in Ukraine just picture the outcome. He’d have have been feted and exulted across the golden billion and would probably be (disastrously) running Ukraine by now.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 27 2023 9:01 utc | 73
Posted by: Paul from Norway | Nov 26 2023 23:16 utc | 36
In the past, a state benefited from joining the USA, EU, or NATO.
Today it’s the reverse: the first to leave will be better off than those who stay.
The UK has already left the EU.
It seems the Dutch now have their own Nigel Farage. The winner of the Dutch general election, Geert Wilders, stated he wants the Netherlands to leave the EU. This is not surprising as Dutch mentality is very close to UK mentality.
For the moment, Hungary sees some benefit in staying, but the relationship is straying.
Turkey – the second biggest army in NATO – is halfway in, halfway out. If Turkey has Russian-made S400, perhaps it’s because turkey is more apprehensive of being bombed by the US than by Russiam and Patriots would not shoot down US bombers.
True, Finland is now in NATO after a telephone poll of 1100 people found the majority supported joining. To me, this is just another special effect of a World Economic Forum “Young Global Leader”. In the end it matters little.
I think the last one to leave – and the one left holding the bag – will be Germany.
Posted by: Passerby | Nov 27 2023 9:26 utc | 74
Posted by: eat shit vatniks | Nov 27 2023 9:09 utc | 75
Posted by: eat shit vatniks | Nov 27 2023 9:10 utc | 76
Thank you for so eloquently listing your qualifications to be a cultured and erudite member of the human race.
Just one suggestion, you should probably stop taking the shits, and instead just leave them in the toilet. But who am I kidding, even you probably have to eat.
Posted by: retroflecks | Nov 27 2023 9:26 utc | 75
Jonathan 68: That’s how it is with the West – Russia has shown them that their sanctions are pointless, and what are they demanding: more sanctions! Can you achieve something in the long term with this mental attitude? Rather not.
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 27 2023 9:32 utc | 76
Sanctions aren’t working that well on Russia because only the USA and it’s vassal states are following them. I don’t think the non-white world sees a difference between the USA invading Iraq and Afghanistan and Russia invading Ukraine.
Posted by: Simon | Nov 27 2023 9:48 utc | 77
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 27 2023 9:01 utc | 74
Thanks for all that.
Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 27 2023 9:51 utc | 78
https://t.me/NovichokRossiya/42039
Selection of photos showing Russian electronic radar distortion system used to disrupt satellite imagery.
Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 27 2023 10:41 utc | 79
In Kyiv, Zelensky’s gang is intensifying its attack on Zaluzhnyi, continuing a quite open and public campaign to discredit him.
In the morning, Zaluzhny was accused of the lack of a normal defense plan in 2022, underestimating the role of drones, fraud, insufficient mining of the border, etc.
All this is being done at the behest of Zelensky and Yermak through Bezugluha. It is done publicly – because they simply cannot remove Zaluzhnyi – the Americans are against it. Therefore, I included the genre of public denunciation.
This is how the story of the “great Ukrainian commander Zaluzhnyi” ends in a mundane way.
Colonelcassad
Posted by: chop | Nov 27 2023 10:44 utc | 80
Simon 80: The whole world sees that their sanctions are not working – and then one can assume that they themselves know it too. Then why do they continue to demand sanctions? Because they are not concerned with the effect on Russia, but rather with increasing the dependence of the sanctioning countries on themselves and thus increasing the profits of their economy?
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 27 2023 10:46 utc | 81
Napoleon’s army in 1812 during the attack on Moscow was caught in a terrible winter with temperatures below -30C , ref Minard’s diagram. In 1942, Operation Barbarossa was going well when the Russian Winter Froze Hitler’s Nazi Empire in Its Tracks.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2023 7:16 utc | 69
Western “narrative”!
That General Winter myth was first churned out by Napoleon’s generals in their memoirs and, following their defeat in the great Patriotic War 1941-1945, by Nazi German generals in theirs. The West simply cannot face up to the fact that its military was roundly beaten by those whom they consider to be a lesser, degenerate breed, so it seeks excuses for its failures. When Napoleon decided to retreat from Moscow on 19 October 1812, it was not cold. In fact, the Corsican’s armies left Moscow in fine weather on 19 October 1812. It only started snowing almost two weeks later on 6 November. and by Russian standards, the winter of 1812/13 was not an exceptionally cold one. The campaign was over by mid-December and so-called Generals January and February, the coldest months in a Russian winter, took no part in Buonaparte’s defeat. In fact, the winter of 1812 was so mild that the Berezina River did not freeze over, which was bad news for Napoleon’s retreating forces: they had expected to walk across the ice. Napoleon ditched his vanquished army on the banks of the Berezina in December 1812. General Typhus killed far more invaders than did this much vaunted Russian General Winter.
There were 4 winters during the course of the Great Patriotic War 1941-1945: the first, during which the Battle of Moscow took place, was the coldest Moscow winter on record, or so many maintain. However, meteorological archives here show that was not the case: below the seasonal average were the temperatures, but they weren’t as in Siberia. During the Battle of Moscow, minus 40°C [minus 40°F] and lower is often claimed to have been the temperature along the whole front throughout the battle. Such a low temperature did, in fact occur at localized points, but not constantly, everywhere along the line. The Battle of Moscow resulted in the first land defeat of Nazi German armed forces during WWII and the Great Patriotic War. However, the cold of December/January 1941/42 wasn’t the fundamental reason why the Nazis were halted that winter at the Battle of Moscow: the Nazis had run out of steam by the time the “rasputitsa” had started, when Russian roads turn to a morass before winter sets in. The Nazis were stretched to the limit by December 1941 and had still not annihilated the opposition. The Red Army struck back with a vengeance that month. However, though the Nazis were forced to withdraw, the Soviets could not follow through on their victory. Then there was winter 1942/43 and the Battle of Stalingrad, followed by the Battle of Kursk, in which the Nazis were roundly beaten by the Red Amy and after which defeat they were in continuous retreat to Berlin. And what about the winters ’43/’44 and ’44/45? Which of these winters defeated the Nazis? Furthermore, the Battle of Kursk, 1943, took place when the weather was not unduly cold. Hardly surprising really: it was fought in the months of July and August. In fact, it often gets quite hot during those summer months in western Russia. So how come, then, the Soviets won at Kursk when there was no General Winter to help them?
Posted by: Moscow Exile | Nov 27 2023 10:57 utc | 82
Posted by: Passerby | Nov 27 2023 9:26 utc | 77
I think the last one to leave – and the one left holding the bag – will be Germany.
Not so certain here but definitely on similar lines.
On one hand German politicians are as staunchly on the wrong side as they can possibly be. On the other Germany has 10% muslims and growing undercurrents against those warmongers. The last disastrous war is not so long ago that the population would let the Baerbocks and Scholzes of this world get away with this.
Germanys politicians are systematically promoted through Atlantic Bridge organizations and have a dogmatic propagandized world view that does not even allow a balanced view or even Realpolitik. “Nibelungentreue” was the word once, definitely has a “Der Untertan” vibe.
Most of all Germans are really feeling betrayed by US led politicians. Ultimately it’s about the economy and sanctions, North Stream and the subsequent political decisions have not been forgotten. The older generation is squarely in the “compensate for the holocaust” camp, those under 50 were wearing keffiyehs on demonstrations in the 90ies. There is no way this trend will turn more to the US side over time – this will be resolved on the scale of a generational conflict though, not really tomorrow.
Unfortunately the political Left has just split into an irrelevant and a radical part, so no alternatives there. Humanitarian values are not a platform to win elections on and the left can not promise prosperity to anyone.
For the next elections I would expect AFD to rise further on a platform similar to Geert Wilders or Vivek Ramaswamy – isolationist and right wing.
With a promise to security instead of freedom, work for all and national interest we are back to the early 1920ies.
From what I see Germany is largely ineffectual for the years to come and licking its wounds. Any dream of military leadership in EU/NATO would take a Billion EUR investment into the Bundeswehr, 20 years and first firing the entire BAAINBw. NATO is not a place to win glory right now.
Hardly any German youth would go to war – for what? There are comfier wars to be fought in front of a computer screen now and precariat later. Germany will gladly fight to the laast Finn and Polish though, armed to the teeth with promises.
Right now Germany has the choice between cutting subsidies (political suicide), cutting social security (suicide), debt and printing money (aka kicking cans) – there is no leeway to grow the military, so this will be pushed up into the EU in the hopes that Germany can leverage its net payments into EU coffers into military spend there.
Talking about that, both Germany and EU could have a equally hard time as German contributions will be declining and EU may be stupid enough to accept Ukraine into the EU as a face saving gesture and a low key alternative to NATO accession in the hopes of having EU forces. Russia will strive for neutrality for rump Ukraine so I expect EU to get saddled with a US-owned, EU paid demilitarized entity – worst of all worlds, financial albatross.
Someone here put this nicely: the US is going down the drain but still wants to stay on top of the pile. The “claw boots” scene from Dune comes to mind.
So tldr; Germany will pass the buck to the EU (and maybe quit after).
Posted by: SOS | Nov 27 2023 10:58 utc | 83
@Moscow Exile | Nov 27 2023 10:57 utc | 85
So how come, then, the Soviets won at Kursk when there was no General Winter to help them?
Nobody is claiming Napoleon and Hitler lost to the weather only.
All I am saying, is give peace a chance.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 27 2023 11:13 utc | 84
Moscow Exile 82: The planners of Barbarossa were probably also aware that Russia is large and can have cold winters. But every planning is based on past experience – and so they were convinced that the Soviet Union would collapse after the first serious defeats. But Stalin’s Soviet Union in 1941 was no longer the tsarist Russia of 1917 or the Soviet Union of 1920 – just as Putin’s Russia, which is waging the Ukrainian war, cannot be compared with the Soviet Union in Afghanistan.
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 27 2023 11:48 utc | 85
Z and V, [11/26/2023 10:42 AM]
‼️🇫🇲🏴☠️ HOW SENIOR OFFICERS OF THE THIRD REICH MADE CAREERS AT THE END OF THE WAR…
https://t.me/photosvideoszv/447
“These are some senior Third Reich officers who were hired (https://www.voltairenet.org/article180885.html) directly by NATO. We can see how they articulated their careers within Nazi Germany and later within the largest terrorist and warmongering agency in the World::
In 1950 BH Liddell Hart wrote a biography of Nazi generals called “The other Side of the Hill” . He praised ‘non Nazi’ generals such as Rommel. This book was financed by the CIA. By this time the US realized they had to seduce Germany into manning against the larger USSR armed forces and as such they rehabilitated the Wehrmacht which confirms the idea behind your post.
“Basil Liddell-Hart recounts his interviews with German generals who were in Allied custody after Germany’s surrender in World War II. The interviews are carefully recorded and annotated, with lengthy verbatim passages. The author describes an atmosphere of mutual respect—many of the Germans were familiar with his …”
Thanks b
I think you need a strong disinfectant as well as a broom, shovel and toilet paper.
Posted by: Marduk | Nov 27 2023 12:43 utc | 87
Posted by: SOS | Nov 27 2023 10:58 utc | 83
OK. I can see where you are coming from.
Older East Germans are having a “deja vu” experience, I think.
Posted by: Passerby | Nov 27 2023 13:03 utc | 88
Sanctions aren’t working that well on Russia because only the USA and it’s vassal states are following them.
Posted by: Simon | Nov 27 2023 9:48 utc | 80
Generally speaking the USA only follows them when it suits it whilst the vassals have little or no option.
Posted by: JohninMK | Nov 27 2023 13:15 utc | 89
Thanks b
I think you need a strong disinfectant as well as a broom, shovel and toilet paper.
Posted by: Marduk | Nov 27 2023 12:43 utc | 87
Thanks from me as well. Flushed into the detritus we leave behind.
Posted by: JohninMK | Nov 27 2023 13:37 utc | 90
MoscowExile @82
I agree with your argument which is timely. But surely General Typhus and General Winter were intimately related?
Posted by: bevin | Nov 27 2023 14:22 utc | 91
Exile ( Nov 26 2023 20:07 utc | 18 ) wrote:
Andrei over at his smoothiex blog says Kiev TV inadvertently leaked that Kiev lost 1,200,000 KIA/MIA so far. That seems far too high. Note these aren‘t Multi-million WWII size armies facing off. These are militaries with a few hundred thousand total forces and maybe 75,000 Front Line Ground pounders. 1,200,000 would be a staggering casualty rate. Therefore, I question it.
Anyone have insight ?
Sounds a little bit low to me (and according to comments by others here and elsewhere as well as me weeks and months ago).
I would guess perhaps as much as 95% KIA?
Haven’t seen any mangled survivors around, none!
Not in any media either. I am talking about people back in civilian life but clearly injured by war. They don’t seem to exist at all. I could easily believe they kill their own wounded (and anyone not wounded too) for any reason at all.
Is that only my own very limited experience? Anyone seen all the people missing limbs and eyes and faces? It’s been a mostly static trench and artillery war (the drones work mostly as a form of artillery when it comes to fighting rather than reconnaissance) so any surviving wounded should perhaps resemble those of WWI.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Nov 27 2023 14:52 utc | 92
Norwegian 84: “Give peace a chance”
This is what you have to tell those who have refused to respect the security interests of the nation-state of Russia since the dissolution of the USSR. Mr. Blinken would be a good address.
Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 27 2023 16:24 utc | 93
Posted by: Moscow Exile | Nov 27 2023 10:57 utc | 82
You seem to be swapping one incomplete narrative for another one, there were numerous factors that decided how the the German invasion of Russia played out, some organic, some external. Russia’s sheer size of landmass and climate played a significant role in derailing OKW strategy (though in truth they also contributed themselves), as it painfully exposed one of the German’s many Achilles Heel’s, their threadbare logistical capability.
Even though the German forces maintained their tactical edge over the Soviets, until the end, wars are not won in that domain, but operationally and strategically, as the Ukrainians and their Western backers, are re-learning. German units at Kursk, especially their armoured and aerial formations, performed significantly better than their Soviet counterparts, but lost because there was no way of winning operationally, thanks to strategic decisions made earlier. That does not mean that the winter of ‘41-2 did not seriously impact the German drive on Moscow and assisted in saving the capital from capture.
Posted by: Milites | Nov 27 2023 20:58 utc | 94
Interesting drone trick:
A Russian “Double Strike” with FPV drones around Avdeevka! The first drone is used to punch a hole in the roof, while the second with a thermobaric warhead flies into the building and detonated inside. The thermobaric vacuum warhead is lethal to personnel.
https://t.me/myLordBebo/14646
Just about every vid I’ve watched since the start of the SMO is a drone or artillery strike on an APC or position with one or two guys hit and ten running away to fight another day. Of course the MoD bureaucratically registers 12 in that position, the strike was a dead hit, so, chalk up a dozen casualties, 4 dead 8 injured, easy peasy textbook war math, and why I long ago stopped following the daily reports.
IIRC it was the Chechens complaining about this back when, how too much effort went into killing one guy and letting 10 get away, and how the military needs to maximize their strikes better. Looks like the MoD has been working on it, one of the other maximizers is drones that can now drop several grenades, the ones that now chase poor suckers around making them dodge and spaz, like a bandito shooting at someone’s feet making them dance. Sadly, the AFU has this stuff too.
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 27 2023 23:42 utc | 95
Thought I’d post this incidental, I Googled cost of a HIMARS missile. Tells you a lot where Ukraine and NATO are coming from and where they’re heade, and why they’re losing. And, why so many Americans are living under bridges and on the street.
Reminiscent of the Nazis launching expensive state of the art V2s at the UK… to hit dry cleaning shops:
The enemy attacked residential areas of Donetsk and Gorlovka with NATO weapons. The Leninsky and Petrovsky districts of the capital of the DPR came under attack from the Himars MLRS and 155-mm howitzers, and houses and civilian infrastructure were damaged. Including a dry cleaning shop in the Leninsky district that was destroyed. https://t.me/Slavyangrad/76040
Google: How much does each HIMAR missile cost?
The rockets are guided by GPS, which means they can be accurately directed towards their targets. Each GMLRS rocket costs approximately $100,000…
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 28 2023 0:02 utc | 96
by LightYearsFromHome | Nov 28 2023 0:02 utc | 96
Google: How much does each HIMAR missile cost?
The rockets are guided by GPS, which means they can be accurately directed towards their targets. Each GMLRS rocket costs approximately $100,000…
‘Me to ChatGPT:
Assuming that the combat line is around 1000 km long and the enemy is using HiMARS GMLRS ammunition from the NATO arsenal, how much per day of such ammunition is needed and how much it will cost per day?
Give me a military summary.
ChatGPT to me:
It’s important to note that providing accurate cost estimates for military operations can be challenging due to various factors such as specific mission requirements, the exact type and quantity of ammunition used, logistics, and other operational considerations. Additionally, the availability and cost of military equipment can change over time.
However, I can provide a rough estimation based on some assumptions:
Assumptions:
Length of Combat Line: 1000 km
Type of Ammunition: HiMARS GMLRS (Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System) from NATO arsenal.
Ammunition Usage: The specific rate of ammunition usage can vary widely based on the nature of the conflict, the density of enemy positions, and the operational plan. For the sake of this estimate, let’s assume a usage rate of 10 missiles per kilometer of the combat line per day.
With these assumptions, the estimated daily ammunition usage would be:
Daily Ammunition Usage = Length of Combat Line ×
Ammunition Usage Rate
Daily Ammunition Usage = 1000 km × 10 missiles/km
Daily Ammunition Usage =10,000 missiles
Now, for the cost estimation, the price of HiMARS GMLRS missiles can vary. As of my last knowledge update in January 2022, the cost per missile was in the range of several hundred thousand to over a million U.S. dollars. For the purpose of this rough estimate, let’s assume a cost of $500,000 per missile.
Daily Cost = Daily Ammunition Usage × Cost per Missile
Daily Cost = 10,000 missiles × $500.000/missile
Daily Cost = $5,000,000,000
So, based on these rough assumptions, the estimated daily cost of HiMARS GMLRS ammunition for a 1000 km combat line could be around $5 billion. Keep in mind that this is a simplified estimation, and actual costs could vary based on numerous factors. Additionally, the strategic, political, and humanitarian implications of such military actions should be carefully considered.’
—
The West would go broke in a flash. Even if they would have an infinite amount of paper and ink for printing money. Not to mention a producing power to meet the demands.
Posted by: whirlX | Nov 28 2023 21:29 utc | 97
@ whirlX, §97:
You´ve just demonstrated the problem with AI such as ChatGPT: Rubbish in → Rubbish out.
Posted by: John Marks | Nov 28 2023 21:53 utc | 98
by John Marks | Nov 28 2023 21:53 utc | 98
Yes, I know that, however the prices of ammo are different from Google and AI thingy that, apparently, can only remember up the January of 2022. Three indicators used in military simulation software are there, according to a military model of presentation, summary, and assumption.
NATO planners have been using such modeling software for years and they were never correct.
So whatever in, whatever out, might be more correct to claim.
Posted by: whirlX | Nov 28 2023 22:01 utc | 99
Greek tabloid Kathimerini: The United States is discussing with Athens the purchase of 75 thousand artillery shells from the stocks of the Greek army, which will then be sent to Ukraine.
We are talking about 50 thousand shells of 105 mm caliber, 20 thousand of 155 mm caliber and 5 thousand of 203 mm caliber. The transaction amount will be $47 million. Negotiations are reported to be at the final stage.
Posted by: MiniMo | Nov 29 2023 2:18 utc | 100