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November 9, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-266
Only for news & views directly related to the war in Ukraine. The current open thread for other issues is here. Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Comments
@ Posted by: Lex | Nov 10 2023 0:23 utc | 46 Posted by: BroncoBilly | Nov 10 2023 1:43 utc | 101 @ Posted by: Lex | Nov 10 2023 0:23 utc | 46 Posted by: BroncoBilly | Nov 10 2023 1:43 utc | 102
Yes, that’s been the plan and it has been prepared for a while. Von der Leyen is doing what she can to carry out her mission but it’s not clear yet if she’ll be successful: the package may be too monstrous in terms of money, and the other EUropean countries may refuse. Neither the current receivers (among them Poland, Hungary) nor the givers are happy about a EU where everyone pays and only Ukraine receives. Even government members in Berlin voiced disagreement. Posted by: Konami | Nov 10 2023 1:52 utc | 103
Yes, that’s been the plan and it has been prepared for a while. Von der Leyen is doing what she can to carry out her mission but it’s not clear yet if she’ll be successful: the package may be too monstrous in terms of money, and the other EUropean countries may refuse. Neither the current receivers (among them Poland, Hungary) nor the givers are happy about a EU where everyone pays and only Ukraine receives. Even government members in Berlin voiced disagreement. Posted by: Konami | Nov 10 2023 1:52 utc | 104 Re: Posted by: unimperator | Nov 10 2023 0:49 utc | 48
Anyone who claims that the extra NATO manpower in Ukraine is ”Unexpected” has not been paying attention for the last 18-24 months. Posted by: Julian | Nov 10 2023 2:47 utc | 105 Re: Posted by: unimperator | Nov 10 2023 0:49 utc | 48
Anyone who claims that the extra NATO manpower in Ukraine is ”Unexpected” has not been paying attention for the last 18-24 months. Posted by: Julian | Nov 10 2023 2:47 utc | 106 Gents, I believe the use of former POWs for setting up an armed formation is a good idea. Posted by: Suresh | Nov 10 2023 4:19 utc | 107 Gents, I believe the use of former POWs for setting up an armed formation is a good idea. Posted by: Suresh | Nov 10 2023 4:19 utc | 108 I don’t understand how Ukraine can keep pushing forward if they are supposedly sustaining heavy losses. Either the Russian side is lying about the number of Ukrainians killed/wounded thus far or the number of mercenaries/NATO troops in the Ukrainian army must be astronomical. Posted by: MiniMo | Nov 10 2023 4:49 utc | 109 I don’t understand how Ukraine can keep pushing forward if they are supposedly sustaining heavy losses. Either the Russian side is lying about the number of Ukrainians killed/wounded thus far or the number of mercenaries/NATO troops in the Ukrainian army must be astronomical. Posted by: MiniMo | Nov 10 2023 4:49 utc | 110 I don’t think NATO has 910 Taurus missiles. I’m pretty sure it’s 910 used Ford Tauruses. And they’re being sent to the Ukraine to defend Sumy. Posted by: Sentient | Nov 10 2023 5:05 utc | 111 I don’t think NATO has 910 Taurus missiles. I’m pretty sure it’s 910 used Ford Tauruses. And they’re being sent to the Ukraine to defend Sumy. Posted by: Sentient | Nov 10 2023 5:05 utc | 112 Here’s a Russian reporter on Telegram who was always aware of the Ukrainian strength and threat. He is referring to Russian media and Russians being fooled into a false sense of security, but it applies to many on blogs like this as well.
Posted by: MiniMO | Nov 10 2023 5:15 utc | 113 Here’s a Russian reporter on Telegram who was always aware of the Ukrainian strength and threat. He is referring to Russian media and Russians being fooled into a false sense of security, but it applies to many on blogs like this as well.
Posted by: MiniMO | Nov 10 2023 5:15 utc | 114
Posted by: Down South | Nov 10 2023 5:42 utc | 115
Posted by: Down South | Nov 10 2023 5:42 utc | 116
Posted by: Down South | Nov 10 2023 5:45 utc | 117
Posted by: Down South | Nov 10 2023 5:45 utc | 118
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/72950 Posted by: Down South | Nov 10 2023 5:46 utc | 119
https://t.me/Slavyangrad/72950 Posted by: Down South | Nov 10 2023 5:46 utc | 120 or detonate them close to the target. Posted by: too scents | Nov 10 2023 6:15 utc | 121 or detonate them close to the target. Posted by: too scents | Nov 10 2023 6:15 utc | 122 The empire needs war and there was too much peace breaking out. Ukraine will stagger on for a while. The empire needs war and there was too much peace breaking out. Ukraine will stagger on for a while. Military summary: Posted by: unimperator | Nov 10 2023 7:30 utc | 125 Military summary: Posted by: unimperator | Nov 10 2023 7:30 utc | 126 @11 Posted by: J.C | Nov 10 2023 7:34 utc | 127 @11 Posted by: J.C | Nov 10 2023 7:34 utc | 128
https://t.me/rezident_ua/20425
https://t.me/rezident_ua/20435 Posted by: Down South | Nov 10 2023 7:54 utc | 129
https://t.me/rezident_ua/20425
https://t.me/rezident_ua/20435 Posted by: Down South | Nov 10 2023 7:54 utc | 130 Bevin, I also read Doctorow’s short piece, which seems to me excellent. I don’t think that he is saying that the US higher education system is excellent. He is instead saying that the Atlanticists in Russia believe that it is excellent and that they are terribly unhappy that an Ivy League degree is no longer the royal road to power in Russia as it once was. Posted by: MFB | Nov 10 2023 8:10 utc | 131 Bevin, I also read Doctorow’s short piece, which seems to me excellent. I don’t think that he is saying that the US higher education system is excellent. He is instead saying that the Atlanticists in Russia believe that it is excellent and that they are terribly unhappy that an Ivy League degree is no longer the royal road to power in Russia as it once was. Posted by: MFB | Nov 10 2023 8:10 utc | 132 In the whole of the SMO, Russia has not attacked NATO assets outside Ukraine once. Why? Posted by: Passerby | Nov 10 2023 9:45 utc | 133 In the whole of the SMO, Russia has not attacked NATO assets outside Ukraine once. Why? Posted by: Passerby | Nov 10 2023 9:45 utc | 134 Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 20:04 utc | 26 Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 10 2023 9:58 utc | 135 Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 20:04 utc | 26 Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 10 2023 9:58 utc | 136 Apparently AFU 110th brigade released a video (stationed in Avdeevka around coke plant) about the bad situation. Posted by: unimperator | Nov 10 2023 10:14 utc | 137 Apparently AFU 110th brigade released a video (stationed in Avdeevka around coke plant) about the bad situation. Posted by: unimperator | Nov 10 2023 10:14 utc | 138
Way to go Zelensky! Posted by: unimperator | Nov 10 2023 11:21 utc | 139
Way to go Zelensky! Posted by: unimperator | Nov 10 2023 11:21 utc | 140 Chessmaster sending Nazis from azov for 5 star holiday to Turkey only to find them again back at frontlines Posted by: SlowSoft | Nov 10 2023 11:26 utc | 141 Chessmaster sending Nazis from azov for 5 star holiday to Turkey only to find them again back at frontlines Posted by: SlowSoft | Nov 10 2023 11:26 utc | 142 69 Posted by: SlowSoft | Nov 10 2023 11:38 utc | 143 69 Posted by: SlowSoft | Nov 10 2023 11:38 utc | 144 In the whole of the SMO, Russia has not attacked NATO assets outside Ukraine once. Why? Posted by: rk | Nov 10 2023 11:45 utc | 145 In the whole of the SMO, Russia has not attacked NATO assets outside Ukraine once. Why? Posted by: rk | Nov 10 2023 11:45 utc | 146 73 Posted by: SlowSoft | Nov 10 2023 12:21 utc | 147 73 Posted by: SlowSoft | Nov 10 2023 12:21 utc | 148 The latest Ukranazi cope: Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 10 2023 12:27 utc | 149 The latest Ukranazi cope: Posted by: Biswapriya Purkayast | Nov 10 2023 12:27 utc | 150 ’73 Posted by: scepticalSOB | Nov 10 2023 12:54 utc | 151 ’73 Posted by: scepticalSOB | Nov 10 2023 12:54 utc | 152 SlowSoft @72: “…the Ukronazis releasing such psyops videos.” Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 10 2023 13:08 utc | 153 SlowSoft @72: “…the Ukronazis releasing such psyops videos.” Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 10 2023 13:08 utc | 154 @ rk, §73: Posted by: John Marks | Nov 10 2023 13:09 utc | 155 @ rk, §73: Posted by: John Marks | Nov 10 2023 13:09 utc | 156 76 Posted by: SlowSoft | Nov 10 2023 13:34 utc | 157 76 Posted by: SlowSoft | Nov 10 2023 13:34 utc | 158 77 Posted by: SlowSoft | Nov 10 2023 13:36 utc | 159 77 Posted by: SlowSoft | Nov 10 2023 13:36 utc | 160 “U don’t need to write a book” Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 10 2023 13:41 utc | 161 “U don’t need to write a book” Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 10 2023 13:41 utc | 162 >There is no way that NATO will completely expend all 910 Taurus cruise missiles for sake a failing Zelensky regime. … Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 10 2023 14:23 utc | 163 >There is no way that NATO will completely expend all 910 Taurus cruise missiles for sake a failing Zelensky regime. … Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 10 2023 14:23 utc | 164 Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 10 2023 14:23 utc | 82 Posted by: Mario | Nov 10 2023 15:25 utc | 165 Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 10 2023 14:23 utc | 82 Posted by: Mario | Nov 10 2023 15:25 utc | 166 MoD Russia, [11/10/23 8:25 AM] Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 10 2023 15:37 utc | 167 MoD Russia, [11/10/23 8:25 AM] Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 10 2023 15:37 utc | 168 Another sign of Ukie desperation…. Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 10 2023 15:45 utc | 169 Another sign of Ukie desperation…. Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 10 2023 15:45 utc | 170 Ukraine Weekly Update: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-a9e Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Nov 10 2023 16:01 utc | 171 Ukraine Weekly Update: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/ukraine-weekly-update-a9e Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Nov 10 2023 16:01 utc | 172 To all who have not forgotten him, update about Gonzalo Lira: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvbOYYBPnF4 Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 10 2023 16:19 utc | 173 To all who have not forgotten him, update about Gonzalo Lira: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvbOYYBPnF4 Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 10 2023 16:19 utc | 174 Thanks for the update Apollyon. I miss his roudtables. My guess is that they will keep him in detention until the conflict ends, perhaps without a trial. Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 10 2023 16:28 utc | 175 Thanks for the update Apollyon. I miss his roudtables. My guess is that they will keep him in detention until the conflict ends, perhaps without a trial. Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 10 2023 16:28 utc | 176 Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 10 2023 9:58 utc | 68 Posted by: Milites | Nov 10 2023 17:29 utc | 177 Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 10 2023 9:58 utc | 68 Posted by: Milites | Nov 10 2023 17:29 utc | 178 Ukrainian 2001 census Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 10 2023 17:35 utc | 179 Ukrainian 2001 census Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 10 2023 17:35 utc | 180 References: Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 10 2023 17:39 utc | 181 References: Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 10 2023 17:39 utc | 182 An interesting and amusing take on the parlous state of the U.S. military. Like everything else in America, a total and disastrous mess thanks to decades of unchecked Liberals in power. Posted by: ASensibleMan | Nov 10 2023 17:42 utc | 183 An interesting and amusing take on the parlous state of the U.S. military. Like everything else in America, a total and disastrous mess thanks to decades of unchecked Liberals in power. Posted by: ASensibleMan | Nov 10 2023 17:42 utc | 184 Colonelcassad: Posted by: MiniMO | Nov 10 2023 18:20 utc | 185 Colonelcassad: Posted by: MiniMO | Nov 10 2023 18:20 utc | 186 Tass is reporting that Russia accepted 5 million refugees from Ukraine during the conflict. Of course we have no idea from which regions these people came. My calculations above don’t take into account that only parts of Donetsk and Lughansk separated in 2014 and also ignored Zaporhizia and Kherson. The latter two had a 2001 population of ~3 million, so if 1/3 remain in the Russian controlled areas that further reduces the available population. Additionally we know that many males subject to conscription fled Ukraine, there is a sizable disabled population not subject to conscription, and there are other legitimate reasons for deferment. If only ~5 million were available to begin with then over 20% have served with perhaps 80% of those 1 million KIA or disabled. Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 10 2023 18:24 utc | 187 Tass is reporting that Russia accepted 5 million refugees from Ukraine during the conflict. Of course we have no idea from which regions these people came. My calculations above don’t take into account that only parts of Donetsk and Lughansk separated in 2014 and also ignored Zaporhizia and Kherson. The latter two had a 2001 population of ~3 million, so if 1/3 remain in the Russian controlled areas that further reduces the available population. Additionally we know that many males subject to conscription fled Ukraine, there is a sizable disabled population not subject to conscription, and there are other legitimate reasons for deferment. If only ~5 million were available to begin with then over 20% have served with perhaps 80% of those 1 million KIA or disabled. Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 10 2023 18:24 utc | 188 The war will not end for a long time. Nobody is going to abandon … Posted by: too scents | Nov 10 2023 18:47 utc | 189 The war will not end for a long time. Nobody is going to abandon … Posted by: too scents | Nov 10 2023 18:47 utc | 190 An interesting and amusing take on the parlous state of the U.S. military. Like everything else in America, a total and disastrous mess thanks to decades of unchecked Liberals in power. Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 10 2023 19:03 utc | 191 An interesting and amusing take on the parlous state of the U.S. military. Like everything else in America, a total and disastrous mess thanks to decades of unchecked Liberals in power. Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 10 2023 19:03 utc | 192
Posted by: Down South | Nov 10 2023 19:17 utc | 193
Posted by: Down South | Nov 10 2023 19:17 utc | 194 All the centuries Russia has been dependent on its manpower to defend the realm. Now for the first time Russia is using its technology and not so much of its manpower to defend the realm. As it is Russian nukes, missiles, tanks and other stuff are better than what the West can deliver, or more battle effective and well as costing less. But now the West has forced Russia from its preferred massed armoured formations type of warfare into a new form of warfare with autonomous drones, tanks and artillery. Russia with its superior military industrial complex and unlimited natural resources is just surging ahead in the new world of autonomous drones, tanks and artillery. The West has neither the natural or human resources to match Russia in advances and especially quantity of new, capable weaponry. Posted by: gT | Nov 10 2023 19:27 utc | 195 All the centuries Russia has been dependent on its manpower to defend the realm. Now for the first time Russia is using its technology and not so much of its manpower to defend the realm. As it is Russian nukes, missiles, tanks and other stuff are better than what the West can deliver, or more battle effective and well as costing less. But now the West has forced Russia from its preferred massed armoured formations type of warfare into a new form of warfare with autonomous drones, tanks and artillery. Russia with its superior military industrial complex and unlimited natural resources is just surging ahead in the new world of autonomous drones, tanks and artillery. The West has neither the natural or human resources to match Russia in advances and especially quantity of new, capable weaponry. Posted by: gT | Nov 10 2023 19:27 utc | 196 I have the lowest possible respect for Van Der Liar. Posted by: newbie | Nov 10 2023 20:29 utc | 197 I have the lowest possible respect for Van Der Liar. Posted by: newbie | Nov 10 2023 20:29 utc | 198 The latest Ukranazi cope: Posted by: Feral Finster | Nov 10 2023 20:39 utc | 199 The latest Ukranazi cope: Posted by: Feral Finster | Nov 10 2023 20:39 utc | 200 |
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