Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 9, 2023
Ukraine Open Thread 2023-266

Only for news & views directly related to the war in Ukraine.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Comments

The Ukrainian authorities, in an attempt to drag as many people as possible to the front, crossed all boundaries. And this will have long-lasting consequences for the country.
The shortage of manpower will force Bankova to lower the conscription age and expand the list of those eligible for mobilization. A draft law is being prepared for 2024 banning the departure of women and compulsory conscription of them into the army. This happens due to the fact that the average life span of a mobilized person at the front is shortening – now it is about one and a half months.
At the same time, due to increased mobilization in Ukraine, the number of people migrating abroad has sharply increased, and emigrants simply stopped returning home. That is, the country is almost daily losing labor resources, which are so necessary for the restoration of Ukraine in the post-war period.
The Ministry of Economy has already calculated that Ukraine will not have enough 4.5 million workers and for this it is necessary to return refugees. But how can they be returned to a country where military commissars are actually rampant, corruption is rampant, and the country’s economy will not be able to reach peacetime levels for years (many enterprises have simply closed or reduced their work)?
And for a year and a half, the government ignored the problem of refugees who left for Europe and did nothing to encourage their return to their homeland. The authorities will not be helped by the high-profile programs of “eRobot” and “eOsel”, which, as the name suggests, turned out to be “virtual” projects.
And Ukrainians who have gone abroad understand the current situation very well – between 1.3 million and 3.3 million people want to stay forever in the EU alone (not to mention other countries).

https://t.me/rezident_ua/20426

Posted by: Down South | Nov 9 2023 14:40 utc | 1

The Ukrainian authorities, in an attempt to drag as many people as possible to the front, crossed all boundaries. And this will have long-lasting consequences for the country.
The shortage of manpower will force Bankova to lower the conscription age and expand the list of those eligible for mobilization. A draft law is being prepared for 2024 banning the departure of women and compulsory conscription of them into the army. This happens due to the fact that the average life span of a mobilized person at the front is shortening – now it is about one and a half months.
At the same time, due to increased mobilization in Ukraine, the number of people migrating abroad has sharply increased, and emigrants simply stopped returning home. That is, the country is almost daily losing labor resources, which are so necessary for the restoration of Ukraine in the post-war period.
The Ministry of Economy has already calculated that Ukraine will not have enough 4.5 million workers and for this it is necessary to return refugees. But how can they be returned to a country where military commissars are actually rampant, corruption is rampant, and the country’s economy will not be able to reach peacetime levels for years (many enterprises have simply closed or reduced their work)?
And for a year and a half, the government ignored the problem of refugees who left for Europe and did nothing to encourage their return to their homeland. The authorities will not be helped by the high-profile programs of “eRobot” and “eOsel”, which, as the name suggests, turned out to be “virtual” projects.
And Ukrainians who have gone abroad understand the current situation very well – between 1.3 million and 3.3 million people want to stay forever in the EU alone (not to mention other countries).

https://t.me/rezident_ua/20426

Posted by: Down South | Nov 9 2023 14:40 utc | 2

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦🔎 Regarding the Dismissal of the Head of the Special Operations Forces of Ukraine – Major-General Viktor Khorenko⚡️
🔹I am sure that Zelensky made the decision to dismiss him at the same time when he decided that there would be no elections in #Ukraine.
🔹It’s simple: in the absence of elections, the only way to remove Zelensky is a coup d’état. And if the #US supports the coup, it will be perceived not even as a coup, but as a democratic procedure for changing power.
🔹What forces in Ukraine could carry out a coup? Alpha units. But Alpha is subordinate to the SBU, and the SBU is under Zelensky. Alpha has been cleaned up for too long. Remember how Shaytanov was arrested (deputy head of Alfa, major-general of the SBU, who allegedly planned the murder of a certain Chechen volunteer Adam Osmayev at the behest of Russian special services and was accused of state treason). It was Alpha that once went through and cleaned up the Profsoyuz House on Maidan. And it did it in 2014 under the leadership of Shaytanov. It would have cleaned up the Maidan, but there was no order. A lot has changed since then, but not everything. And the maximum that we can hope for now is that Alpha will remain neutral.
🔹And besides Alpha, there are only special operations forces, part of the AFU, i.e. subordinates of Zaluzhny. The head of the Special Operation Forces (FSO), Khorenko, was removed because he headed an organisation that could elegantly and quietly resolve the issue with the president. With the president, whose power now rests on war. There is war – there is power. With a president who categorically does not want to leave.
🔹And it cannot be said that by firing Khorenko, Zelensky has completely insured himself against being taken out of his chair by force. He only raised the stakes. It’s just that if he had been eliminated by FSO specialists, no one would have realised anything: they would have found him in his office in the morning with a tightly tied scarf around his throat and his face blue, but thickly powdered with cocaine. Western heads of state would throw up their hands and say: “See, what a story has happened…” and avert their eyes.
🔹But if Zelensky is taken out by the army, there will be tanks on the streets of #Kiev and so on, an operation much more difficult to organise. But that doesn’t mean it won’t happen.
📌 If there was no risk of a coup, there would have been no dismissal of Khorenko.

https://t.me/sitreports/17725

Posted by: Down South | Nov 9 2023 14:42 utc | 3

⚡️🇷🇺🇺🇦🔎 Regarding the Dismissal of the Head of the Special Operations Forces of Ukraine – Major-General Viktor Khorenko⚡️
🔹I am sure that Zelensky made the decision to dismiss him at the same time when he decided that there would be no elections in #Ukraine.
🔹It’s simple: in the absence of elections, the only way to remove Zelensky is a coup d’état. And if the #US supports the coup, it will be perceived not even as a coup, but as a democratic procedure for changing power.
🔹What forces in Ukraine could carry out a coup? Alpha units. But Alpha is subordinate to the SBU, and the SBU is under Zelensky. Alpha has been cleaned up for too long. Remember how Shaytanov was arrested (deputy head of Alfa, major-general of the SBU, who allegedly planned the murder of a certain Chechen volunteer Adam Osmayev at the behest of Russian special services and was accused of state treason). It was Alpha that once went through and cleaned up the Profsoyuz House on Maidan. And it did it in 2014 under the leadership of Shaytanov. It would have cleaned up the Maidan, but there was no order. A lot has changed since then, but not everything. And the maximum that we can hope for now is that Alpha will remain neutral.
🔹And besides Alpha, there are only special operations forces, part of the AFU, i.e. subordinates of Zaluzhny. The head of the Special Operation Forces (FSO), Khorenko, was removed because he headed an organisation that could elegantly and quietly resolve the issue with the president. With the president, whose power now rests on war. There is war – there is power. With a president who categorically does not want to leave.
🔹And it cannot be said that by firing Khorenko, Zelensky has completely insured himself against being taken out of his chair by force. He only raised the stakes. It’s just that if he had been eliminated by FSO specialists, no one would have realised anything: they would have found him in his office in the morning with a tightly tied scarf around his throat and his face blue, but thickly powdered with cocaine. Western heads of state would throw up their hands and say: “See, what a story has happened…” and avert their eyes.
🔹But if Zelensky is taken out by the army, there will be tanks on the streets of #Kiev and so on, an operation much more difficult to organise. But that doesn’t mean it won’t happen.
📌 If there was no risk of a coup, there would have been no dismissal of Khorenko.

https://t.me/sitreports/17725

Posted by: Down South | Nov 9 2023 14:42 utc | 4

The following would be a source for an assertion that certainly arouses interest. Of course, the usual scepticism regarding the truthfulness of the claim is not wrong.
I am not aware of the source, so no assessment of its veracity on my part.
https://www.theinteldrop.org/2023/11/07/exclusive-hamas-fighters-conducted-joint-training-with-fighters-from-the-ukrainian-battalion-azov/

The correspondence implies that in early August (at least from the 3rd to the 10th) several members of the Hamas group were at the training camp of the Azov battalion in Ukraine.

Conspiracy theorists will now remember that in early July Turkey released its Azov protégés in breach of contract. The “HAMAS action” was initially also somewhat reminiscent of the actions of the Right Sector militias in the Donbass.
Simply blind violence, without a second thought.
Then there was the recent report about the training of selected Ukrainians in the UK for “special” tasks.

Posted by: 600w | Nov 9 2023 14:50 utc | 5

The following would be a source for an assertion that certainly arouses interest. Of course, the usual scepticism regarding the truthfulness of the claim is not wrong.
I am not aware of the source, so no assessment of its veracity on my part.
https://www.theinteldrop.org/2023/11/07/exclusive-hamas-fighters-conducted-joint-training-with-fighters-from-the-ukrainian-battalion-azov/

The correspondence implies that in early August (at least from the 3rd to the 10th) several members of the Hamas group were at the training camp of the Azov battalion in Ukraine.

Conspiracy theorists will now remember that in early July Turkey released its Azov protégés in breach of contract. The “HAMAS action” was initially also somewhat reminiscent of the actions of the Right Sector militias in the Donbass.
Simply blind violence, without a second thought.
Then there was the recent report about the training of selected Ukrainians in the UK for “special” tasks.

Posted by: 600w | Nov 9 2023 14:50 utc | 6

Kim Dotcom on twitter..
The chatter from the power table is that both Biden and Zelenskyy get pushed out. Biden won’t run in 2024 and Zelenskyy will be gone within 3 months. It’s also the end of Von der Leyen. The reshuffle makes serious negotiations with Russia possible. Now a necessity for the West.

Plausible??
Erdogan saying he will join the resistance…
Likely??
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 9 2023 14:58 utc | 7

Kim Dotcom on twitter..
The chatter from the power table is that both Biden and Zelenskyy get pushed out. Biden won’t run in 2024 and Zelenskyy will be gone within 3 months. It’s also the end of Von der Leyen. The reshuffle makes serious negotiations with Russia possible. Now a necessity for the West.

Plausible??
Erdogan saying he will join the resistance…
Likely??
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 9 2023 14:58 utc | 8

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/91103

🇺🇦🇷🇺Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine for European Integration Stefanishina claims that there is “no Russian national minority” in the country.
There is not a single “legally formalized community” that identifies itself as Russian, but there are Ukrainians, some of whom speak Russian, Stefanishina said.
Yesterday in Brussels, a European official, on condition of anonymity, said that the EC will not pay attention to the situation with the Russian language in the country when assessing Ukraine’s readiness to join the EU.

Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 9 2023 15:15 utc | 9

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/91103

🇺🇦🇷🇺Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine for European Integration Stefanishina claims that there is “no Russian national minority” in the country.
There is not a single “legally formalized community” that identifies itself as Russian, but there are Ukrainians, some of whom speak Russian, Stefanishina said.
Yesterday in Brussels, a European official, on condition of anonymity, said that the EC will not pay attention to the situation with the Russian language in the country when assessing Ukraine’s readiness to join the EU.

Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 9 2023 15:15 utc | 10

Gammon
@GammonBadge
·
10h
Russia(finally) developed 23mm programmable ammunition. It passed all the tests and are ready for production. It works on the same principles as AHEAD. Effective against small UAVs.

Has a proximity fuze… contains size 00 buckshot… post has cut away photo of a round..
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 9 2023 15:28 utc | 11

Gammon
@GammonBadge
·
10h
Russia(finally) developed 23mm programmable ammunition. It passed all the tests and are ready for production. It works on the same principles as AHEAD. Effective against small UAVs.

Has a proximity fuze… contains size 00 buckshot… post has cut away photo of a round..
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 9 2023 15:28 utc | 12

size 00 buckshot
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 9 2023 15:28 utc | 6

00 is big for a drone.
For shooting birds you use birdshot.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 9 2023 15:32 utc | 13

size 00 buckshot
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 9 2023 15:28 utc | 6

00 is big for a drone.
For shooting birds you use birdshot.

Posted by: too scents | Nov 9 2023 15:32 utc | 14

Andrei Martynov reposts …..
And I don’t mean robot mistaking a poor South Korean worker for the box of bell peppers and killing him in the process–that is a tragedy, albeit with a funny twist of Skynet going bananas or, rather, peppers. But this shit:
SEOUL, Nov 8 (Reuters) – South Korea is ramping up pest control measures and inspections to prevent a spread of bedbugs after reports of suspected infestations at some saunas and residential facilities, officials said on Wednesday. The small, flat oval insects have caused a panic in France, where reports of outbreaks on trains and in cinemas have raised worries about the impact on tourism and the Paris Olympics, which start in less than a year. Britain too has seen a jump in enquiries about the pests.
In South Korea, about 30 cases of suspected infestations have been reported nationwide, including at a traditional Korean spa called “jjimjilbang” in Incheon, west of Seoul, and a college dorm in the southeastern city of Daegu, officials said. The prime minister’s office on Tuesday launched a four-week campaign with inspections of public facilities and pest control measures. “Public anxiety is inevitable as reports continue to come in,” Park Ku-yeon, first deputy chief of the Office for Government Policy Coordination, who heads the team in change of the campaign, told a meeting.

Bedbugs…. what will the Resistance think of next???
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 9 2023 15:34 utc | 15

Andrei Martynov reposts …..
And I don’t mean robot mistaking a poor South Korean worker for the box of bell peppers and killing him in the process–that is a tragedy, albeit with a funny twist of Skynet going bananas or, rather, peppers. But this shit:
SEOUL, Nov 8 (Reuters) – South Korea is ramping up pest control measures and inspections to prevent a spread of bedbugs after reports of suspected infestations at some saunas and residential facilities, officials said on Wednesday. The small, flat oval insects have caused a panic in France, where reports of outbreaks on trains and in cinemas have raised worries about the impact on tourism and the Paris Olympics, which start in less than a year. Britain too has seen a jump in enquiries about the pests.
In South Korea, about 30 cases of suspected infestations have been reported nationwide, including at a traditional Korean spa called “jjimjilbang” in Incheon, west of Seoul, and a college dorm in the southeastern city of Daegu, officials said. The prime minister’s office on Tuesday launched a four-week campaign with inspections of public facilities and pest control measures. “Public anxiety is inevitable as reports continue to come in,” Park Ku-yeon, first deputy chief of the Office for Government Policy Coordination, who heads the team in change of the campaign, told a meeting.

Bedbugs…. what will the Resistance think of next???
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 9 2023 15:34 utc | 16

Doctorow, who has a touching faith in the value of American education, argues to day that Russia’s -highly educated- commentariat understands exactly what the United States wants in Ukraine and is not buying any of it.
“…However, from the standpoint of Russian elites the war in Ukraine has tilted decisively in Moscow’s favor now that Kiev has largely exhausted its human and material reserves for waging war. These elites have no interest whatsoever in a Korea-like solution, in a ‘frozen conflict’ that could be warmed up again at some time in the future when Washington so decides. No, they will not sit down at a negotiating table until and unless Kiev capitulates and accepts what amounts to neutrality and removal of the neo-Nazi directed Zelensky regime. Moscow is ready to fight on ‘as long as it takes’ to achieve its objectives.”
https://gilbertdoctorow.com/

Posted by: bevin | Nov 9 2023 15:37 utc | 17

Doctorow, who has a touching faith in the value of American education, argues to day that Russia’s -highly educated- commentariat understands exactly what the United States wants in Ukraine and is not buying any of it.
“…However, from the standpoint of Russian elites the war in Ukraine has tilted decisively in Moscow’s favor now that Kiev has largely exhausted its human and material reserves for waging war. These elites have no interest whatsoever in a Korea-like solution, in a ‘frozen conflict’ that could be warmed up again at some time in the future when Washington so decides. No, they will not sit down at a negotiating table until and unless Kiev capitulates and accepts what amounts to neutrality and removal of the neo-Nazi directed Zelensky regime. Moscow is ready to fight on ‘as long as it takes’ to achieve its objectives.”
https://gilbertdoctorow.com/

Posted by: bevin | Nov 9 2023 15:37 utc | 18

Will the US-kraine press on with the fight, despite the futility and needless death of more Ukrainians? Quite possibly.
However, if they don’t, they will probably attempt some sort of face-saving, investment-preserving peace agreement. Since both Washington and Keiv operate in an imaginary alternate reality, I expect their first attempts to broach an agreement will be tone-deaf, transparent, and insulting. Negotiations will be a rather unpleasant experience of them learning about reality.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Nov 9 2023 15:45 utc | 19

Will the US-kraine press on with the fight, despite the futility and needless death of more Ukrainians? Quite possibly.
However, if they don’t, they will probably attempt some sort of face-saving, investment-preserving peace agreement. Since both Washington and Keiv operate in an imaginary alternate reality, I expect their first attempts to broach an agreement will be tone-deaf, transparent, and insulting. Negotiations will be a rather unpleasant experience of them learning about reality.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Nov 9 2023 15:45 utc | 20

@Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 9 2023 14:58 utc | 4

The chatter from the power table is that both Biden and Zelenskyy get pushed out. Biden won’t run in 2024 and Zelenskyy will be gone within 3 months. It’s also the end of Von der Leyen. The reshuffle makes serious negotiations with Russia possible. Now a necessity for the West.

This should definitely happen (I hope anyway).
Zelensky: I have said before, he does not get to see the 10th anniversary of the Maidan coup as sitting President. Seems more likely than ever. Could of course still be wrong.
Biden: He is “non compos mentis” so there is no option other than to get rid of him ASAP.
Von der Leyen: PLEASE make it true. Let the criminal EU go down as well.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 9 2023 15:51 utc | 21

@Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 9 2023 14:58 utc | 4

The chatter from the power table is that both Biden and Zelenskyy get pushed out. Biden won’t run in 2024 and Zelenskyy will be gone within 3 months. It’s also the end of Von der Leyen. The reshuffle makes serious negotiations with Russia possible. Now a necessity for the West.

This should definitely happen (I hope anyway).
Zelensky: I have said before, he does not get to see the 10th anniversary of the Maidan coup as sitting President. Seems more likely than ever. Could of course still be wrong.
Biden: He is “non compos mentis” so there is no option other than to get rid of him ASAP.
Von der Leyen: PLEASE make it true. Let the criminal EU go down as well.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 9 2023 15:51 utc | 22

“And Ukrainians who have gone abroad understand the current situation very well – between 1.3 million and 3.3 million people want to stay forever in the EU alone (not to mention other countries).”
Maybe just maybe it is the plan. Ukraine without people, even nationalists dead. Then Bibi comes and says “you know what: if we can’t leave with Palestinians why we don’t move out. Look there vacant country in easter europe where we used to lived”

Posted by: Lux | Nov 9 2023 15:56 utc | 23

“And Ukrainians who have gone abroad understand the current situation very well – between 1.3 million and 3.3 million people want to stay forever in the EU alone (not to mention other countries).”
Maybe just maybe it is the plan. Ukraine without people, even nationalists dead. Then Bibi comes and says “you know what: if we can’t leave with Palestinians why we don’t move out. Look there vacant country in easter europe where we used to lived”

Posted by: Lux | Nov 9 2023 15:56 utc | 24

@Lux | Nov 9 2023 15:56 utc | 12
That has been the obvious plan for a while.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 9 2023 16:01 utc | 25

@Lux | Nov 9 2023 15:56 utc | 12
That has been the obvious plan for a while.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 9 2023 16:01 utc | 26

The people that will soon be in urgent need of a home are the palestinians, not the israelis.
So what if the plan was to move the palestinians to Ukraine ?

Posted by: Pierrot | Nov 9 2023 16:08 utc | 27

The people that will soon be in urgent need of a home are the palestinians, not the israelis.
So what if the plan was to move the palestinians to Ukraine ?

Posted by: Pierrot | Nov 9 2023 16:08 utc | 28

I have the lowest possible respect for Van Der Liar.
But that is similar to my level of respect for the weird bureaucratic monstrosity – the EU.
(N.B. I love Europe).
So no, I want more numbskulls like VDL representing the EU. She accurately represents the incompetence of the whole mess.

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Nov 9 2023 16:22 utc | 29

I have the lowest possible respect for Van Der Liar.
But that is similar to my level of respect for the weird bureaucratic monstrosity – the EU.
(N.B. I love Europe).
So no, I want more numbskulls like VDL representing the EU. She accurately represents the incompetence of the whole mess.

Posted by: scepticalSOB | Nov 9 2023 16:22 utc | 30

it would be easy for them to get rid of Biden, just have whoever is responsible for making sure he doesn’t fall off the stage look aside at a crucial moment, via threat, blackmail, or bribery. same with zelensky, cut his coke supply with something deadly.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 9 2023 16:27 utc | 31

it would be easy for them to get rid of Biden, just have whoever is responsible for making sure he doesn’t fall off the stage look aside at a crucial moment, via threat, blackmail, or bribery. same with zelensky, cut his coke supply with something deadly.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 9 2023 16:27 utc | 32

@Dr. George W Oprisko
Please use <blockquote> </blockquote> tags instead of <i> </i> tags for quotes. Italic is hard to read.

Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 16:36 utc | 33

@Dr. George W Oprisko
Please use <blockquote> </blockquote> tags instead of <i> </i> tags for quotes. Italic is hard to read.

Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 16:36 utc | 34

@pretzelattack | Nov 9 2023 16:27 utc | 16

it would be easy for them to get rid of Biden, just have whoever is responsible for making sure he doesn’t fall off the stage look aside at a crucial moment,

A literal “downfall” moment… that would work.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 9 2023 16:41 utc | 35

@pretzelattack | Nov 9 2023 16:27 utc | 16

it would be easy for them to get rid of Biden, just have whoever is responsible for making sure he doesn’t fall off the stage look aside at a crucial moment,

A literal “downfall” moment… that would work.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 9 2023 16:41 utc | 36

they will probably attempt some sort of face-saving, investment-preserving peace agreement.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Nov 9 2023 15:45 utc | 10
Probably but not very soon. The civilian attacks, their favorite type, are increasing not decreasing, Russia isn’t going to get to the new borders for years and Kiev is perfectly safe, nato has no need for changes. That will come at a later time, when Ukr will be split in parts to become nato+eu overnight or other method will be found. EUplans to bypass Hungary’s veto for the 50bn gift to Ukr by using a different method to collect the money.
Btw, nato is in Georgia to check their progress for joining tass.com/world/1703557

Posted by: rk | Nov 9 2023 17:45 utc | 37

they will probably attempt some sort of face-saving, investment-preserving peace agreement.
Posted by: Figleaf23 | Nov 9 2023 15:45 utc | 10
Probably but not very soon. The civilian attacks, their favorite type, are increasing not decreasing, Russia isn’t going to get to the new borders for years and Kiev is perfectly safe, nato has no need for changes. That will come at a later time, when Ukr will be split in parts to become nato+eu overnight or other method will be found. EUplans to bypass Hungary’s veto for the 50bn gift to Ukr by using a different method to collect the money.
Btw, nato is in Georgia to check their progress for joining tass.com/world/1703557

Posted by: rk | Nov 9 2023 17:45 utc | 38

Posted by: rk | Nov 9 2023 17:45 utc | 19
Too pessimistic for my tastes but there are 910 Taurus cruise missiles in NATO inventory, their eventually use shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone.

Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 9 2023 18:37 utc | 39

Posted by: rk | Nov 9 2023 17:45 utc | 19
Too pessimistic for my tastes but there are 910 Taurus cruise missiles in NATO inventory, their eventually use shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone.

Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 9 2023 18:37 utc | 40

Russia will never, ever allow Georgia to join NATO, not after the Ukrainian War now in its 10th year…………………….
There is no way that NATO will completely expend all 910 Taurus cruise missiles for sake a failing Zelensky regime. That would totally expend their reserve stocks, already depleted, with few in the pipeline. EU and UK basic industries have been in decline for decades, so the possibility of prompt re-supply is remote….

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Nov 9 2023 18:57 utc | 41

Russia will never, ever allow Georgia to join NATO, not after the Ukrainian War now in its 10th year…………………….
There is no way that NATO will completely expend all 910 Taurus cruise missiles for sake a failing Zelensky regime. That would totally expend their reserve stocks, already depleted, with few in the pipeline. EU and UK basic industries have been in decline for decades, so the possibility of prompt re-supply is remote….

Posted by: Tobias Cole | Nov 9 2023 18:57 utc | 42

Yansen Z (@Rus_Jansen) wrote this on October 10, 2023. The provided maps illustrate his explanation.
To understand the importance of the events near Avdeevka:
(1) — Avdeevka is the key to Krasnogorovka.
(2) — Krasnogorovka is the key to Maryinka.
(3) — Maryinka (indirectly, through Konstantinovka and Vodyanoye) is the key to Ugledar (4).
And this is only if you consider the south direction. There are also such chains to the north towards New York (Niu York, or Novgorodskoye).
The Khokhol front will certainly not collapse, but it will hurt badly, if we have sufficient forces to get it done. They’ll have to retreat to the next line of defence.
Good luck to the boys. If we open Avdos, it will get easier.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/72909

Posted by: Down South | Nov 9 2023 19:00 utc | 43

Yansen Z (@Rus_Jansen) wrote this on October 10, 2023. The provided maps illustrate his explanation.
To understand the importance of the events near Avdeevka:
(1) — Avdeevka is the key to Krasnogorovka.
(2) — Krasnogorovka is the key to Maryinka.
(3) — Maryinka (indirectly, through Konstantinovka and Vodyanoye) is the key to Ugledar (4).
And this is only if you consider the south direction. There are also such chains to the north towards New York (Niu York, or Novgorodskoye).
The Khokhol front will certainly not collapse, but it will hurt badly, if we have sufficient forces to get it done. They’ll have to retreat to the next line of defence.
Good luck to the boys. If we open Avdos, it will get easier.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/72909

Posted by: Down South | Nov 9 2023 19:00 utc | 44

I still believe that by pushing through Novomikhailovka and south of Maryinka, the Ugledar position can be exploited and cracked earlier, however, Yansen’s explanation is crystal clear and accurate.
Each of the Ukrainian strongholds protects the flank of the next. Attempting to encircle Kransogorovka (with uninterrupted supply lines west and north) without first taking Avdeevka exposes the attacking force to a flanking threat from the north (and from the side of Maryinka).
Similarly, trying to take Maryinka on its own is exceedingly difficult—as demonstrated by the Ukrainians hanging on to some ruins of its empty husks for months, because Kransogorovka bolsters the town’s flank.
Likewise, Maryinka protects and supports the Ukrainian chain down the road, through Konstantinovka and Vodyanoye, and this is the road that leads to Ugledar from the northeast.
As dominoes fall, the progress should get easier and easier. Avdeevka is the linchpin of Ukrainian defensive chains to the north and to the south. Ugledar serves the same purpose on the south Donetsk front.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/72912

Posted by: Down South | Nov 9 2023 19:01 utc | 45

I still believe that by pushing through Novomikhailovka and south of Maryinka, the Ugledar position can be exploited and cracked earlier, however, Yansen’s explanation is crystal clear and accurate.
Each of the Ukrainian strongholds protects the flank of the next. Attempting to encircle Kransogorovka (with uninterrupted supply lines west and north) without first taking Avdeevka exposes the attacking force to a flanking threat from the north (and from the side of Maryinka).
Similarly, trying to take Maryinka on its own is exceedingly difficult—as demonstrated by the Ukrainians hanging on to some ruins of its empty husks for months, because Kransogorovka bolsters the town’s flank.
Likewise, Maryinka protects and supports the Ukrainian chain down the road, through Konstantinovka and Vodyanoye, and this is the road that leads to Ugledar from the northeast.
As dominoes fall, the progress should get easier and easier. Avdeevka is the linchpin of Ukrainian defensive chains to the north and to the south. Ugledar serves the same purpose on the south Donetsk front.

https://t.me/Slavyangrad/72912

Posted by: Down South | Nov 9 2023 19:01 utc | 46

⚠️ URGENTLY! Based on the situation in the Avdeevsky direction.
Northern flank.
After a 4-hour artillery preparation, our assault groups attacked the enemy in the forest belts east of Stepovoy and went on the offensive; the enemy suffered heavy losses and was driven back, thanks to high-quality fire support from our attack aircraft without deaths, which is an indicator of the highest level of professionalism of our infantry.
Believe in the Russian warrior, with proper support he is a superman.
Also, while the report was being compiled, a message was received that our assault groups had pushed through the enemy’s defenses on the outskirts of Stepovoye and entered the territory of a populated area, they are currently consolidating their positions, the information requires confirmation, we are working on it.
Heavy fighting continues along the entire Avdeevsky front, the front line is unstable, one position can change from side to side several times a day, beware of premature reports, it is too early to celebrate the closure of the boiler.
✈️ NGP exploration🦇

https://t.me/remylind21/10370
Some major achievements in the Avdeevka direction, if true.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 9 2023 19:08 utc | 47

⚠️ URGENTLY! Based on the situation in the Avdeevsky direction.
Northern flank.
After a 4-hour artillery preparation, our assault groups attacked the enemy in the forest belts east of Stepovoy and went on the offensive; the enemy suffered heavy losses and was driven back, thanks to high-quality fire support from our attack aircraft without deaths, which is an indicator of the highest level of professionalism of our infantry.
Believe in the Russian warrior, with proper support he is a superman.
Also, while the report was being compiled, a message was received that our assault groups had pushed through the enemy’s defenses on the outskirts of Stepovoye and entered the territory of a populated area, they are currently consolidating their positions, the information requires confirmation, we are working on it.
Heavy fighting continues along the entire Avdeevsky front, the front line is unstable, one position can change from side to side several times a day, beware of premature reports, it is too early to celebrate the closure of the boiler.
✈️ NGP exploration🦇

https://t.me/remylind21/10370
Some major achievements in the Avdeevka direction, if true.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 9 2023 19:08 utc | 48

Posted by: too scents | Nov 9 2023 15:32 utc | 7
But your average shotgun does not fire 10 shells a second, or detonate them close to the target.

Posted by: Milites | Nov 9 2023 19:49 utc | 49

Posted by: too scents | Nov 9 2023 15:32 utc | 7
But your average shotgun does not fire 10 shells a second, or detonate them close to the target.

Posted by: Milites | Nov 9 2023 19:49 utc | 50

Russian journalist and Moscow City Duma Deputy Chairman Andrey Medvedev on premature celebrations (November 6):

What we don’t need right now are illusions. And empty hopes.
It doesn’t matter what Zaluzhnyy says in Time or The Economist. The counterattack, he says, has failed, and it’s going to be more difficult now. It doesn’t matter what the fool Meloni tells the pranksters about Europe’s fatigue with the Ukraine. And you shouldn’t pay attention to the numerous articles in the Western press, where they write about how the West is putting pressure on Zelenskiy to start negotiations with Moscow. Or in one form or another they talk about the lack of prospects in the war, about the fatigue of the AFU and other things that are pleasant to our ears.
This is all nonsense, white noise. It doesn’t mean anything. The West will not stop the war in the Ukraine and support for Kiev. The word “West” here should be understood primarily as the U.S. Europe may be tired, and its economy depressed. But who cares about the opinion of a vassal? And Washington is seriously committed to the project of destruction or at least the total weakening of Russia. For years, they’ve been investing money in the Ukraine as in a business project, where the goals and the profits are deferred. The U.S. generally approaches politics like business.
It doesn’t matter if they give Kiev money for weapons now. What matters is that they’ve been building the “Ukraine as Anti-Russia” project for a long time. And while it’s still capable of reaching its goals, at least partially, the U.S. will not withdraw from it.
We shouldn’t have any illusions. Washington doesn’t care whether the Ukraine wins. Even if it simply weakens Russia, the project has already fulfilled its purpose. At the same time, even in its current state, the Ukraine is capable of reaching the necessary goals, and Washington has a large bench of local politicians to replace Zelenskiy (if there’s a sudden need for that).
Even freezing the conflict is quite suitable for the U.S. The Ukraine in this case will become an analogue of the Weimar Republic, where disgruntled veterans and politicians will sooner or later build a real Reich. So the support for the Ukraine may or may not weaken. There may be more money and weapons or none at all. Doesn’t matter.
Even if it exits the war, Washington will still not exit the Ukrainian political project as long as it can get at least some profit.
I see that we have a tendency to talk about some kind of turning point or even victory. So far, unfortunately, that is not the case. So far we are only on the way to this turning point in the SMO. But it certainly already has some outlines. However, this is not about us. This is about understanding clearly: the West, or rather Washington, will not abandon the Ukraine now. Even if it means pretty much gutting the EU economy.
And we should understand that nothing will end quickly. And ahead of us is, most likely, the winter offensive of the AFU. Where are they going to get the people for the attack is Kiev’s problem. But an offensive will happen. As well as increased activity in terms of striking our rear areas and airfields. It’s too early for us to celebrate success, a turning point, or anything like that. We need to prepare for new challenges. Without any illusions.

Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 20:04 utc | 51

Russian journalist and Moscow City Duma Deputy Chairman Andrey Medvedev on premature celebrations (November 6):

What we don’t need right now are illusions. And empty hopes.
It doesn’t matter what Zaluzhnyy says in Time or The Economist. The counterattack, he says, has failed, and it’s going to be more difficult now. It doesn’t matter what the fool Meloni tells the pranksters about Europe’s fatigue with the Ukraine. And you shouldn’t pay attention to the numerous articles in the Western press, where they write about how the West is putting pressure on Zelenskiy to start negotiations with Moscow. Or in one form or another they talk about the lack of prospects in the war, about the fatigue of the AFU and other things that are pleasant to our ears.
This is all nonsense, white noise. It doesn’t mean anything. The West will not stop the war in the Ukraine and support for Kiev. The word “West” here should be understood primarily as the U.S. Europe may be tired, and its economy depressed. But who cares about the opinion of a vassal? And Washington is seriously committed to the project of destruction or at least the total weakening of Russia. For years, they’ve been investing money in the Ukraine as in a business project, where the goals and the profits are deferred. The U.S. generally approaches politics like business.
It doesn’t matter if they give Kiev money for weapons now. What matters is that they’ve been building the “Ukraine as Anti-Russia” project for a long time. And while it’s still capable of reaching its goals, at least partially, the U.S. will not withdraw from it.
We shouldn’t have any illusions. Washington doesn’t care whether the Ukraine wins. Even if it simply weakens Russia, the project has already fulfilled its purpose. At the same time, even in its current state, the Ukraine is capable of reaching the necessary goals, and Washington has a large bench of local politicians to replace Zelenskiy (if there’s a sudden need for that).
Even freezing the conflict is quite suitable for the U.S. The Ukraine in this case will become an analogue of the Weimar Republic, where disgruntled veterans and politicians will sooner or later build a real Reich. So the support for the Ukraine may or may not weaken. There may be more money and weapons or none at all. Doesn’t matter.
Even if it exits the war, Washington will still not exit the Ukrainian political project as long as it can get at least some profit.
I see that we have a tendency to talk about some kind of turning point or even victory. So far, unfortunately, that is not the case. So far we are only on the way to this turning point in the SMO. But it certainly already has some outlines. However, this is not about us. This is about understanding clearly: the West, or rather Washington, will not abandon the Ukraine now. Even if it means pretty much gutting the EU economy.
And we should understand that nothing will end quickly. And ahead of us is, most likely, the winter offensive of the AFU. Where are they going to get the people for the attack is Kiev’s problem. But an offensive will happen. As well as increased activity in terms of striking our rear areas and airfields. It’s too early for us to celebrate success, a turning point, or anything like that. We need to prepare for new challenges. Without any illusions.

Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 20:04 utc | 52

Andrey Medvedev on Krynki (November 6):

AFU’s offensive in Krynki quite clearly demonstrates what most military analysis is worth. Or, rather, the so-called analysis and so-called experts.
It is easy to see what was being written and said. The AFU are exhausted. The offensive has stalled. The potential has dried up. The AFU do not have the equipment and troops to continue hostilities in the fall. And so on.
And any attempts to explain that the situation looks completely different, that the AFU will continue the offensive in the fall and enter the winter campaign and that there will be a change in tactics were ridiculed by various “experts” routinely pronouncing mantras that the West is tired of the Ukraine and the Kiev regime will collapse any day now.
The operation to cross the Dnieper was considered impossible. “Well, that would be a suicide.” And yet, the enemy is crossing the Dnieper and, regardless of losses, creating a bridgehead. It’s still small and obviously won’t hold. But nevertheless, the AFU continue to attack.
It’s hard to even imagine what they [the West] promised Ukrainian politicians for that. But the fact remains a fact. The offensive is underway, people in Ukrainian cities are being crushed.

Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 20:17 utc | 53

Andrey Medvedev on Krynki (November 6):

AFU’s offensive in Krynki quite clearly demonstrates what most military analysis is worth. Or, rather, the so-called analysis and so-called experts.
It is easy to see what was being written and said. The AFU are exhausted. The offensive has stalled. The potential has dried up. The AFU do not have the equipment and troops to continue hostilities in the fall. And so on.
And any attempts to explain that the situation looks completely different, that the AFU will continue the offensive in the fall and enter the winter campaign and that there will be a change in tactics were ridiculed by various “experts” routinely pronouncing mantras that the West is tired of the Ukraine and the Kiev regime will collapse any day now.
The operation to cross the Dnieper was considered impossible. “Well, that would be a suicide.” And yet, the enemy is crossing the Dnieper and, regardless of losses, creating a bridgehead. It’s still small and obviously won’t hold. But nevertheless, the AFU continue to attack.
It’s hard to even imagine what they [the West] promised Ukrainian politicians for that. But the fact remains a fact. The offensive is underway, people in Ukrainian cities are being crushed.

Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 20:17 utc | 54

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/91103
🇺🇦🇷🇺Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine for European Integration Stefanishina claims that there is “no Russian national minority” in the country.
There is not a single “legally formalized community” that identifies itself as Russian, but there are Ukrainians, some of whom speak Russian, Stefanishina said.
Yesterday in Brussels, a European official, on condition of anonymity, said that the EC will not pay attention to the situation with the Russian language in the country when assessing Ukraine’s readiness to join the EU.
Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 9 2023 15:15 utc | 5
Stop kidding yourself. The Kiev regime could herd all Russian-speaking Ukrainians into cattle cars and then gas and cremate them, and nobody in Europe would dare raise so much as a peep in protest.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Nov 9 2023 20:51 utc | 55

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/91103
🇺🇦🇷🇺Deputy Prime Minister of Ukraine for European Integration Stefanishina claims that there is “no Russian national minority” in the country.
There is not a single “legally formalized community” that identifies itself as Russian, but there are Ukrainians, some of whom speak Russian, Stefanishina said.
Yesterday in Brussels, a European official, on condition of anonymity, said that the EC will not pay attention to the situation with the Russian language in the country when assessing Ukraine’s readiness to join the EU.
Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 9 2023 15:15 utc | 5
Stop kidding yourself. The Kiev regime could herd all Russian-speaking Ukrainians into cattle cars and then gas and cremate them, and nobody in Europe would dare raise so much as a peep in protest.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Nov 9 2023 20:51 utc | 56

Ursula von der Lying says the EU will arrange a special admission for the Ukraine, despite it being unlikely to command unanimity. Hungary, Slovakia, maybe Austria will object. Von der Lying says she has ways around Hungary blocking the €50 milliarden from the EU taxpayers for the Ukraine by “taking it from a different pocket”.
How psychotic is von der Lying? Do the British have something on her? Previously, only the British have been so fanatical.
Let´s hope the next German elections bury the Greens and socialists – and the EU along with them.

Posted by: John Marks | Nov 9 2023 21:08 utc | 57

Ursula von der Lying says the EU will arrange a special admission for the Ukraine, despite it being unlikely to command unanimity. Hungary, Slovakia, maybe Austria will object. Von der Lying says she has ways around Hungary blocking the €50 milliarden from the EU taxpayers for the Ukraine by “taking it from a different pocket”.
How psychotic is von der Lying? Do the British have something on her? Previously, only the British have been so fanatical.
Let´s hope the next German elections bury the Greens and socialists – and the EU along with them.

Posted by: John Marks | Nov 9 2023 21:08 utc | 58

Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 20:17 utc | 27
‘It’s still small and obviously won’t hold’, so what’s the point of it? You can attacks as much as you like but unless there is an operational goal you’re wasting blood and treasure. Every army has the capability to attack, even one’s on their last legs, aka Nazi Germany in ‘45. Dumb comment.

Posted by: Milites | Nov 9 2023 21:10 utc | 59

Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 20:17 utc | 27
‘It’s still small and obviously won’t hold’, so what’s the point of it? You can attacks as much as you like but unless there is an operational goal you’re wasting blood and treasure. Every army has the capability to attack, even one’s on their last legs, aka Nazi Germany in ‘45. Dumb comment.

Posted by: Milites | Nov 9 2023 21:10 utc | 60

On Ukrainian “refugees” returning from Europe: Will not happen, and that has nothing to do with mobilization.
The whole point behind Maidan and the Ukrainian desire to join the EU was to open “The Garden” gate for younger Ukrainians to move to Europe. There were never any plans to make over the Ukraine into its own “Garden”. The Ukrainians could have been working on that all along since 1991 if that was their intention, but instead they neglected the Ukraine and let it degenerate into shit. The younger Ukrainians cheered when Russia started the SMO because that opened the door to Europe for them. They bolted from the Ukraine as fast as they could without ever even hearing a single explosion or gunshot. Whether they get into Europe as an émigré or a refugee, they don’t care, and now they are finally away from the Ukraine they hate so much, they are never going back.
None of those Ukrainian “refugees” will ever return, even if the AFU could miraculously win the conflict tomorrow and achieve peace… peace that the Ukrainian Nazis never wanted in the first place. The Ukrainian “refugees” got all they ever wanted when the Russians started the SMO. Going back to the Ukraine would be giving that up.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 9 2023 21:11 utc | 61

On Ukrainian “refugees” returning from Europe: Will not happen, and that has nothing to do with mobilization.
The whole point behind Maidan and the Ukrainian desire to join the EU was to open “The Garden” gate for younger Ukrainians to move to Europe. There were never any plans to make over the Ukraine into its own “Garden”. The Ukrainians could have been working on that all along since 1991 if that was their intention, but instead they neglected the Ukraine and let it degenerate into shit. The younger Ukrainians cheered when Russia started the SMO because that opened the door to Europe for them. They bolted from the Ukraine as fast as they could without ever even hearing a single explosion or gunshot. Whether they get into Europe as an émigré or a refugee, they don’t care, and now they are finally away from the Ukraine they hate so much, they are never going back.
None of those Ukrainian “refugees” will ever return, even if the AFU could miraculously win the conflict tomorrow and achieve peace… peace that the Ukrainian Nazis never wanted in the first place. The Ukrainian “refugees” got all they ever wanted when the Russians started the SMO. Going back to the Ukraine would be giving that up.

Posted by: William Gruff | Nov 9 2023 21:11 utc | 62

Woof, from the above it looks to me like Moscow City Duma Deputy Chairman Andrey Medvedev had an opportunity to break the fourth wall, so to speak, turn to the cameras at his side, and not quote Churchill, by indirectly quoting him, lol. 😉
“Now is not the time to fatuously talk of the end. It is not even time to talk of the beginning of that.”
That would serve as a mockery of Zelenskyy’s pretentions of being like Churchill, and the western media having pitched that idea. But for better or worse, and imo the better, Homie/The Russians don’t play that game of trying to score cheap rhetorical flourishes, and microphone dropping moments. They leave that to flash in the pan opportunistic politicians, while they make real history, and deal in substance.
In America, one of the greatest compliments you can give an outfit is that “they underpromise, and overdeliver”. I think we here understand that precious few administrations of the post World War II era can be said to have ever had, even fleetingly, a credible claim to that ideal. If Russia forces the AFU to retreat many kilometers away from the current line of contact, then imo it will be on the way to earning that distinction. If it also nets Odessa by the time all has been said and done, then history will have been made, bigly, and in a yooge way.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Nov 9 2023 21:14 utc | 63

Woof, from the above it looks to me like Moscow City Duma Deputy Chairman Andrey Medvedev had an opportunity to break the fourth wall, so to speak, turn to the cameras at his side, and not quote Churchill, by indirectly quoting him, lol. 😉
“Now is not the time to fatuously talk of the end. It is not even time to talk of the beginning of that.”
That would serve as a mockery of Zelenskyy’s pretentions of being like Churchill, and the western media having pitched that idea. But for better or worse, and imo the better, Homie/The Russians don’t play that game of trying to score cheap rhetorical flourishes, and microphone dropping moments. They leave that to flash in the pan opportunistic politicians, while they make real history, and deal in substance.
In America, one of the greatest compliments you can give an outfit is that “they underpromise, and overdeliver”. I think we here understand that precious few administrations of the post World War II era can be said to have ever had, even fleetingly, a credible claim to that ideal. If Russia forces the AFU to retreat many kilometers away from the current line of contact, then imo it will be on the way to earning that distinction. If it also nets Odessa by the time all has been said and done, then history will have been made, bigly, and in a yooge way.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Nov 9 2023 21:14 utc | 64

@Milites #30:

Dumb comment.

Yes, your comment is dumb.

Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 21:16 utc | 65

@Milites #30:

Dumb comment.

Yes, your comment is dumb.

Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 21:16 utc | 66

@27
Around 25k Russian troops arrived over night to end the Attack.

Posted by: Rudi Ruessel | Nov 9 2023 21:34 utc | 67

@27
Around 25k Russian troops arrived over night to end the Attack.

Posted by: Rudi Ruessel | Nov 9 2023 21:34 utc | 68

Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 21:16 utc | 33
Defending a dumb comment by making a dumb comment is….dumb. Please explain the use of a bridgehead that has barely expanded in two weeks, cannot sustain itself from its side, i.e. a lodgement, but is chained to the opposite bank with regards to logistics and fire-support. Being able to attack, without an operational chance of success, signifies nothing more than the exercising of that capacity, or desperation.
It’s obvious this is the rump of a plan that was meant to coincide with or support the great offensive. Trouble is the Marine units tasked with this riverine operation were used up this summer, or are rushing around acting as fire brigades.

Posted by: Milites | Nov 9 2023 21:42 utc | 69

Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 21:16 utc | 33
Defending a dumb comment by making a dumb comment is….dumb. Please explain the use of a bridgehead that has barely expanded in two weeks, cannot sustain itself from its side, i.e. a lodgement, but is chained to the opposite bank with regards to logistics and fire-support. Being able to attack, without an operational chance of success, signifies nothing more than the exercising of that capacity, or desperation.
It’s obvious this is the rump of a plan that was meant to coincide with or support the great offensive. Trouble is the Marine units tasked with this riverine operation were used up this summer, or are rushing around acting as fire brigades.

Posted by: Milites | Nov 9 2023 21:42 utc | 70

Posted by: Rudi Ruessel | Nov 9 2023 21:34 utc | 34
Wow, and thanks for that heads-up!
While I’m by no means expert or knowledgeable about what’s what, afaik the terrain that the AFU is moving around there is about as good as it gets for making surrender doable while not getting shot by the Nazi enforcers of the Zelenskyy regime. Maybe even at the squad level or larger they can call out on the radio that they want to walk towards the Russian positions.
Much worse than a large scale “advance to the rear” is a large scale surrender. Even getting cut to ribbons tends to be not all that heavily reported these days, but lots of the AFU, who are currently the only ones that can be said to be on the offensive, deciding that this “rich man’s war, poor man’s fight” was over as far as they were concerned, that would be big news.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Nov 9 2023 21:49 utc | 71

Posted by: Rudi Ruessel | Nov 9 2023 21:34 utc | 34
Wow, and thanks for that heads-up!
While I’m by no means expert or knowledgeable about what’s what, afaik the terrain that the AFU is moving around there is about as good as it gets for making surrender doable while not getting shot by the Nazi enforcers of the Zelenskyy regime. Maybe even at the squad level or larger they can call out on the radio that they want to walk towards the Russian positions.
Much worse than a large scale “advance to the rear” is a large scale surrender. Even getting cut to ribbons tends to be not all that heavily reported these days, but lots of the AFU, who are currently the only ones that can be said to be on the offensive, deciding that this “rich man’s war, poor man’s fight” was over as far as they were concerned, that would be big news.

Posted by: Babel-17 | Nov 9 2023 21:49 utc | 72

“Ursula von der Lying says the EU will arrange a special admission for the Ukraine, despite it being unlikely to command unanimity. Hungary, Slovakia, maybe Austria will object. Von der Lying says she has ways around Hungary blocking the €50 milliarden from the EU taxpayers for the Ukraine by “taking it from a different pocket”.
How psychotic is von der Lying? Do the British have something on her? Previously, only the British have been so fanatical.
Let´s hope the next German elections bury the Greens and socialists – and the EU along with them.
Posted by: John Marks | Nov 9 2023 21:08 utc | 29″
If the dissenters cannot be bullied or threatened to fall in line, the EU will simply change the rules on the fly.
Wtiness how the EU treaty was enacted.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Nov 9 2023 21:51 utc | 73

“Ursula von der Lying says the EU will arrange a special admission for the Ukraine, despite it being unlikely to command unanimity. Hungary, Slovakia, maybe Austria will object. Von der Lying says she has ways around Hungary blocking the €50 milliarden from the EU taxpayers for the Ukraine by “taking it from a different pocket”.
How psychotic is von der Lying? Do the British have something on her? Previously, only the British have been so fanatical.
Let´s hope the next German elections bury the Greens and socialists – and the EU along with them.
Posted by: John Marks | Nov 9 2023 21:08 utc | 29″
If the dissenters cannot be bullied or threatened to fall in line, the EU will simply change the rules on the fly.
Wtiness how the EU treaty was enacted.

Posted by: Feral Finster | Nov 9 2023 21:51 utc | 74

One thing to notice is the lack of western MSM reporting of this Dnieper river crossing, or Krynky. It has very few mentions, mostly in the Ukrainian media.
It therefore seems to indicate that this river crossing hasn’t been planned by the west (or maybe it has), but it seems more likely that the operation was created out of desperation to regain media attention in the west by Zelensky. So far which has failed.
It seems that the ziocons have set their course re. Ukraine and are executing their plan of gradually phasing out information of Ukraine in the media and they do not allow a few “seeming successes” to hinder with it.
US is in very big financial trouble now and they are trying to get Ursula to pick up the tab by giving Ukraine 50 billion euros. So this was long ago predicted that US will dump it onto EU, which will eventually completely choke on this turd.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 9 2023 21:52 utc | 75

One thing to notice is the lack of western MSM reporting of this Dnieper river crossing, or Krynky. It has very few mentions, mostly in the Ukrainian media.
It therefore seems to indicate that this river crossing hasn’t been planned by the west (or maybe it has), but it seems more likely that the operation was created out of desperation to regain media attention in the west by Zelensky. So far which has failed.
It seems that the ziocons have set their course re. Ukraine and are executing their plan of gradually phasing out information of Ukraine in the media and they do not allow a few “seeming successes” to hinder with it.
US is in very big financial trouble now and they are trying to get Ursula to pick up the tab by giving Ukraine 50 billion euros. So this was long ago predicted that US will dump it onto EU, which will eventually completely choke on this turd.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 9 2023 21:52 utc | 76

S 26 excellent, that’s it.

Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 9 2023 21:56 utc | 77

S 26 excellent, that’s it.

Posted by: Oliver Krug | Nov 9 2023 21:56 utc | 78

fyi,
from G Doctorow’s latest, only the ending of which focuses on the Ukraine conflict….
there will be no ceasefire, no frozen-conflict a la Korea 1950-1953, nor like in the Vietnam conflict a la 1954 with the Geneva Convention agreements signed in 1954 when of course afterwards the USA and its allies (Australia, S. Korea, etc) totally ignored the agreement setting the stage for a long and bloody USA war. Anyone here remember the 7-8 years when Russia patiently waited for the EU powers to force Kiev to accept the Minsk Agreements of 2014-2015. How did that work out, by the way?
No, the Russians simply won’t put up with any more lies or utter bullshit or useless international agreements from the imperialist USA and EU; and I believe the Russians will get what they want in the Ukraine, by hook or by crook
https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2023/11/09/russian-political-elites-on-their-u-s-counterparts-card-cheats/
“….I mention all of the foregoing to help readers appreciate how the Russian political elites and the Kremlin look at the suggestions now surfacing in U.S. and Western media that the Russia-Ukraine war has reached an impasse and that it is time for the sides to negotiate a peace.
The Russians take this to mean that the United States has shifted its priorities to the conflict in the Middle East and to preparing for the coming armed confrontation with China. Kiev can now be let go without calling undue attention to America’s unreliability as defense guarantor, because global media are focused on the Hamas-Israel fight.
However, from the standpoint of Russian elites the war in Ukraine has tilted decisively in Moscow’s favor now that Kiev has largely exhausted its human and material reserves for waging war. These elites have no interest whatsoever in a Korea-like solution, in a ‘frozen conflict’ that could be warmed up again at some time in the future when Washington so decides.
No, they will not sit down at a negotiating table until and unless Kiev capitulates and accepts what amounts to neutrality and removal of the neo-Nazi directed Zelensky regime. Moscow is ready to fight on ‘as long as it takes’ to achieve its objectives….”

Posted by: michaelj72 | Nov 9 2023 21:56 utc | 79

fyi,
from G Doctorow’s latest, only the ending of which focuses on the Ukraine conflict….
there will be no ceasefire, no frozen-conflict a la Korea 1950-1953, nor like in the Vietnam conflict a la 1954 with the Geneva Convention agreements signed in 1954 when of course afterwards the USA and its allies (Australia, S. Korea, etc) totally ignored the agreement setting the stage for a long and bloody USA war. Anyone here remember the 7-8 years when Russia patiently waited for the EU powers to force Kiev to accept the Minsk Agreements of 2014-2015. How did that work out, by the way?
No, the Russians simply won’t put up with any more lies or utter bullshit or useless international agreements from the imperialist USA and EU; and I believe the Russians will get what they want in the Ukraine, by hook or by crook
https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2023/11/09/russian-political-elites-on-their-u-s-counterparts-card-cheats/
“….I mention all of the foregoing to help readers appreciate how the Russian political elites and the Kremlin look at the suggestions now surfacing in U.S. and Western media that the Russia-Ukraine war has reached an impasse and that it is time for the sides to negotiate a peace.
The Russians take this to mean that the United States has shifted its priorities to the conflict in the Middle East and to preparing for the coming armed confrontation with China. Kiev can now be let go without calling undue attention to America’s unreliability as defense guarantor, because global media are focused on the Hamas-Israel fight.
However, from the standpoint of Russian elites the war in Ukraine has tilted decisively in Moscow’s favor now that Kiev has largely exhausted its human and material reserves for waging war. These elites have no interest whatsoever in a Korea-like solution, in a ‘frozen conflict’ that could be warmed up again at some time in the future when Washington so decides.
No, they will not sit down at a negotiating table until and unless Kiev capitulates and accepts what amounts to neutrality and removal of the neo-Nazi directed Zelensky regime. Moscow is ready to fight on ‘as long as it takes’ to achieve its objectives….”

Posted by: michaelj72 | Nov 9 2023 21:56 utc | 80

@Milites #35:

Please explain the use of a bridgehead that has barely expanded in two weeks…

Russian Telegram channel Dva mayora on the situation at the Dnieper front (November 9; emphasis original):

Kherson Oblast, our bank
The enemy is not abandoning its intentions to expand the bridgehead at Krynki, north of Podstepnoye and Peschanoye. We, like Comrade Romanov, also received information about the expansion of the zone of control of the AFU to the south from the settlement of Krynki into the forest. The information is confirmed from the ground, and the reasons will be sorted out by the military command.
⭐️An important new element was the use of an AFU helicopter in the Krynki area, which, while operating in the area of our bank, fired unguided missiles and flew back. Similar daring tactics of the AFU were previously noticed at Rabotino: the enemy used helicopters at extremely low altitudes to attack our positions.
In general, the situation directly indicates the enemy’s transition to the second phase of the plan of the operation to cross the Dnieper.

Also, the ratio of Ukrainian losses to Russian losses at Krynki may not be what you think it is.
In general, good job entirely missing the point of Medvedev’s comments.

Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 22:03 utc | 81

@Milites #35:

Please explain the use of a bridgehead that has barely expanded in two weeks…

Russian Telegram channel Dva mayora on the situation at the Dnieper front (November 9; emphasis original):

Kherson Oblast, our bank
The enemy is not abandoning its intentions to expand the bridgehead at Krynki, north of Podstepnoye and Peschanoye. We, like Comrade Romanov, also received information about the expansion of the zone of control of the AFU to the south from the settlement of Krynki into the forest. The information is confirmed from the ground, and the reasons will be sorted out by the military command.
⭐️An important new element was the use of an AFU helicopter in the Krynki area, which, while operating in the area of our bank, fired unguided missiles and flew back. Similar daring tactics of the AFU were previously noticed at Rabotino: the enemy used helicopters at extremely low altitudes to attack our positions.
In general, the situation directly indicates the enemy’s transition to the second phase of the plan of the operation to cross the Dnieper.

Also, the ratio of Ukrainian losses to Russian losses at Krynki may not be what you think it is.
In general, good job entirely missing the point of Medvedev’s comments.

Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 22:03 utc | 82

I don’t understand how Ukraine can keep pushing forward if they are supposedly sustaining heavy losses. Either the Russian side is lying about the number of Ukrainians killed/wounded thus far or the number of mercenaries/NATO troops in the Ukrainian army must be astronomical.

Posted by: bored | Nov 9 2023 22:12 utc | 83

I don’t understand how Ukraine can keep pushing forward if they are supposedly sustaining heavy losses. Either the Russian side is lying about the number of Ukrainians killed/wounded thus far or the number of mercenaries/NATO troops in the Ukrainian army must be astronomical.

Posted by: bored | Nov 9 2023 22:12 utc | 84

re: Dnieper / Kherson front
It’s the same UA “inflict casualties regardless of cost to self” strategy, going on autopilot since mid/late 2022. The fact of the bridgehead, however suicidal, forces RF to defend and to supply defenders, which in turn exposes them to artillery & guided rocket fire from the UA territory.
Now lately there has been talk about UA needing to reckon with unpleasant reality of force balance or whatever. But events are more simply explained if we takes the current round of stories in the press as just noise. Everyone with decision making power on the UA side, including nominal govt, banderites, profiteers, and US foreign policy bodies, are happy to keep the war going in some form for as long as possible. Genuine exhaustion of manpower is several years away, and as far as I can tell, the “send’em forward as bait” gameplan is still on.

Posted by: pxx | Nov 9 2023 22:20 utc | 85

re: Dnieper / Kherson front
It’s the same UA “inflict casualties regardless of cost to self” strategy, going on autopilot since mid/late 2022. The fact of the bridgehead, however suicidal, forces RF to defend and to supply defenders, which in turn exposes them to artillery & guided rocket fire from the UA territory.
Now lately there has been talk about UA needing to reckon with unpleasant reality of force balance or whatever. But events are more simply explained if we takes the current round of stories in the press as just noise. Everyone with decision making power on the UA side, including nominal govt, banderites, profiteers, and US foreign policy bodies, are happy to keep the war going in some form for as long as possible. Genuine exhaustion of manpower is several years away, and as far as I can tell, the “send’em forward as bait” gameplan is still on.

Posted by: pxx | Nov 9 2023 22:20 utc | 86

@Rudi Ruessel #34:

Around 25k Russian troops arrived over night to end the Attack.

Source, please.

Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 22:23 utc | 87

@Rudi Ruessel #34:

Around 25k Russian troops arrived over night to end the Attack.

Source, please.

Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 22:23 utc | 88

Posted by: Milites | Nov 9 2023 21:42 utc | 35
To be fair. The bridgehead is actually the single win for Ukraine.
Far as I can tell anyways. Therein lies the answer to the question. Fwiw
I thought S’s comment was too long. I get where you are comin from tho. Also I like your assesments. You add value here imo. So thanks.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Nov 10 2023 0:17 utc | 89

Posted by: Milites | Nov 9 2023 21:42 utc | 35
To be fair. The bridgehead is actually the single win for Ukraine.
Far as I can tell anyways. Therein lies the answer to the question. Fwiw
I thought S’s comment was too long. I get where you are comin from tho. Also I like your assesments. You add value here imo. So thanks.

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Nov 10 2023 0:17 utc | 90

Yes, the VSU has had some success on the left bank south of Kherson. It’s something but it doesn’t go anywhere because they’re towards the end of a peninsula. Where do they go from where they are, and how do they get there beyond tactical skirmishes? Some resupply is and will be possible, but not at the level of armored vehicles, fuel, food and ammunition for enough forces to fight their way off the peninsula.
It’s a pointless use of scarce resources that can’t make a difference beyond the local and tactical level.

Posted by: Lex | Nov 10 2023 0:23 utc | 91

Yes, the VSU has had some success on the left bank south of Kherson. It’s something but it doesn’t go anywhere because they’re towards the end of a peninsula. Where do they go from where they are, and how do they get there beyond tactical skirmishes? Some resupply is and will be possible, but not at the level of armored vehicles, fuel, food and ammunition for enough forces to fight their way off the peninsula.
It’s a pointless use of scarce resources that can’t make a difference beyond the local and tactical level.

Posted by: Lex | Nov 10 2023 0:23 utc | 92

Re: Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 9 2023 15:51 utc | 11

Von der Leyen: PLEASE make it true. Let the criminal EU go down as well.

Von see Leyen is GONE because her term ends in mid-2024.
Gone for no other reason than the calendar.
Charles Michel is similarly term-limited.

Posted by: Julian | Nov 10 2023 0:32 utc | 93

Re: Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 9 2023 15:51 utc | 11

Von der Leyen: PLEASE make it true. Let the criminal EU go down as well.

Von see Leyen is GONE because her term ends in mid-2024.
Gone for no other reason than the calendar.
Charles Michel is similarly term-limited.

Posted by: Julian | Nov 10 2023 0:32 utc | 94

When talking about Dnieper, one should keep the scales of distance in mind. The Dnieper river itself is 160 km in length from Ochakov to the river bend where it starts heading north, around Berislav.
It’s simply impossible to defend every single village in a static fashion. Sometimes it pays to pause and see where the enemy is actually trying to land. After they have committed (in Ukraine’s case supposedly 4 understrength marine brigades plus whatever territorial defense mobilized) what they can muster, then make plans how to deal with them.
I don’t think these landings will be properly erased until the other matters around Rabotyne and Avdeevka are solved or at least significantly progressed.
It’s also very likely that Nato might have anywhere between 50-100k troops in Ukraine which enables this offensives and seemingly endless manpower no one would be expecting.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 10 2023 0:49 utc | 95

When talking about Dnieper, one should keep the scales of distance in mind. The Dnieper river itself is 160 km in length from Ochakov to the river bend where it starts heading north, around Berislav.
It’s simply impossible to defend every single village in a static fashion. Sometimes it pays to pause and see where the enemy is actually trying to land. After they have committed (in Ukraine’s case supposedly 4 understrength marine brigades plus whatever territorial defense mobilized) what they can muster, then make plans how to deal with them.
I don’t think these landings will be properly erased until the other matters around Rabotyne and Avdeevka are solved or at least significantly progressed.
It’s also very likely that Nato might have anywhere between 50-100k troops in Ukraine which enables this offensives and seemingly endless manpower no one would be expecting.

Posted by: unimperator | Nov 10 2023 0:49 utc | 96

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Nov 10 2023 0:17 utc | 45
Thanks, it’s tempting to grub around in the micro weeds, looking for morsels, but more useful to take a macro position. The bridgehead is really just another Ukrainian cemetery plot, only this time on Russian territory.
Posted by: pxx | Nov 9 2023 22:20 utc | 43
I think it’s just the forward screen of the Ukrainian defence lines, that allows the stripping of units to be sent by Avdivka and fix Russian units in place.
Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 22:03 utc | 41
I didn’t miss the point, it was a dumb statement, entered a forest, one helicopter fired unguided rockets, seriously? Two weeks since its establishment (longer if you count the initial recce groups) and it’s largely unchanged. In March ‘45 German launched Operation Spring Awakening, two months later the war ended in Europe, the ability to attack only proves you can, nothing else, as many drunk pub brawlers have found to their cost.
Posted by: Lex | Nov 10 2023 0:23 utc | 46
The military equivalent of spending the monthly budget for rent, utilities and food on lottery tickets.

Posted by: Military | Nov 10 2023 0:51 utc | 97

Posted by: Tannenhouser | Nov 10 2023 0:17 utc | 45
Thanks, it’s tempting to grub around in the micro weeds, looking for morsels, but more useful to take a macro position. The bridgehead is really just another Ukrainian cemetery plot, only this time on Russian territory.
Posted by: pxx | Nov 9 2023 22:20 utc | 43
I think it’s just the forward screen of the Ukrainian defence lines, that allows the stripping of units to be sent by Avdivka and fix Russian units in place.
Posted by: S | Nov 9 2023 22:03 utc | 41
I didn’t miss the point, it was a dumb statement, entered a forest, one helicopter fired unguided rockets, seriously? Two weeks since its establishment (longer if you count the initial recce groups) and it’s largely unchanged. In March ‘45 German launched Operation Spring Awakening, two months later the war ended in Europe, the ability to attack only proves you can, nothing else, as many drunk pub brawlers have found to their cost.
Posted by: Lex | Nov 10 2023 0:23 utc | 46
The military equivalent of spending the monthly budget for rent, utilities and food on lottery tickets.

Posted by: Military | Nov 10 2023 0:51 utc | 98

Some videos for today.
The Kiev regime shelled the civilian Kalinin hospital in the center of Donetsk with US-supplied “HIMARS” rockets (miraculously there were no casualties in this attack):
https://rutube.ru/video/6ca30122be205aef8c3cdfce3e47bcc3/
Russian Grad launcher pounds enemy position north of the DPR’s Artemovsk:
https://rutube.ru/video/28f90e82eb064b484bf49148ee8cfc34/
Russian Uragan MLRS pounds enemy position on the southern DPR front:
https://rutube.ru/video/ae3540be6d394b198d71d78046edfbb8/
Russian T-80 tank pounds enemy firing positions near Krasny Liman:
https://rutube.ru/video/64aebd45ea820e82e64e15ea095543e2/
Russian MiG-31 provides air cover:
https://rutube.ru/video/ab0dc9683d43d1d0616d114eb13dc7b7/

Posted by: Nate | Nov 10 2023 1:32 utc | 99

Some videos for today.
The Kiev regime shelled the civilian Kalinin hospital in the center of Donetsk with US-supplied “HIMARS” rockets (miraculously there were no casualties in this attack):
https://rutube.ru/video/6ca30122be205aef8c3cdfce3e47bcc3/
Russian Grad launcher pounds enemy position north of the DPR’s Artemovsk:
https://rutube.ru/video/28f90e82eb064b484bf49148ee8cfc34/
Russian Uragan MLRS pounds enemy position on the southern DPR front:
https://rutube.ru/video/ae3540be6d394b198d71d78046edfbb8/
Russian T-80 tank pounds enemy firing positions near Krasny Liman:
https://rutube.ru/video/64aebd45ea820e82e64e15ea095543e2/
Russian MiG-31 provides air cover:
https://rutube.ru/video/ab0dc9683d43d1d0616d114eb13dc7b7/

Posted by: Nate | Nov 10 2023 1:32 utc | 100