Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 1, 2023
Economist Fakes Political History Of Gaza

The Economist is faking history:

Bibi Netanyahu is the wrong man in the wrong placeEconomist – October 31, 2023

In the absence of clear government direction the Israeli defence establishment is doing all the planning. Its preferred solution is to see the PA ultimately return to Gaza, which it controlled until Hamas’s coup in 2007.


bigger

There was no 'Hamas coup', neither in 2007 nor before or after it. But there was indeed a coup attempt in Gaza. It was led by Muhammad Dahlan of the Fatah, which was also leading the Palestinian Authority, who, with U.S. support, was trying to overthrow the legally elected Hamas government of Gaza.

The Gaza BombshellVanity Fair – March 3, 2008

After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.

Then President Bush called Muhammad Dahlan 'our guy' and did everything he could to further a coup:

Vanity Fair has obtained confidential documents, since corroborated by sources in the U.S. and Palestine, which lay bare a covert initiative, approved by Bush and implemented by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Deputy National Security Adviser Elliott Abrams, to provoke a Palestinian civil war. The plan was for forces led by Dahlan, and armed with new weapons supplied at America’s behest, to give Fatah the muscle it needed to remove the democratically elected Hamas-led government from power.

It is a long complex story. In the end the Bush administration gave up and simply tried to ignore Hamas and Gaza. That did not work either.

As the Vanity Fair piece concluded at that time:

It is impossible to say for sure whether the outcome in Gaza would have been any better—for the Palestinian people, for the Israelis, and for America’s allies in Fatah—if the Bush administration had pursued a different policy. One thing, however, seems certain: it could not be any worse.

Seeing how helpless the Palestinians are in the West Bank, where the settlers and army are torturing and terrorizing them, it is difficult to agree with that conclusion.

Comments

Sorry Karloff they haven’t got their act together yet. For the moment they can dance together befo it all falls apart. Some of the financial aspects might remain tho like negating the use of the USD for trade…
But not totally.

Posted by: Hutch | Nov 2 2023 4:46 utc | 701

Sorry Karloff they haven’t got their act together yet. For the moment they can dance together befo it all falls apart. Some of the financial aspects might remain tho like negating the use of the USD for trade…
But not totally.

Posted by: Hutch | Nov 2 2023 4:46 utc | 702

Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 4:33 utc | 346–
Yes Peter, I understand your angst, which I share but I don’t blame the UN as it was a unilateral tool at its outset. What really screwed the situation was Stalin’s lack of vision. But we can’t undo that or Truman’s consent. I so do want to know what followed Putin’s address at the Security Council meeting on the 30th. His words must have impelled some vigorous discussion where policy direction was decided.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 4:46 utc | 703

Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 4:33 utc | 346–
Yes Peter, I understand your angst, which I share but I don’t blame the UN as it was a unilateral tool at its outset. What really screwed the situation was Stalin’s lack of vision. But we can’t undo that or Truman’s consent. I so do want to know what followed Putin’s address at the Security Council meeting on the 30th. His words must have impelled some vigorous discussion where policy direction was decided.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 4:46 utc | 704

Hutch | Nov 2 2023 4:46 utc | 351–
I see you’re blind and a fool.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 4:47 utc | 705

Hutch | Nov 2 2023 4:46 utc | 351–
I see you’re blind and a fool.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 4:47 utc | 706

Maybe too an idea crazy. But I just can’t believe Israeli intel didn’t know such an attack was a risk.
Posted by: Dave | Nov 2 2023 4:41 utc | 350
If you’re going to accept a theory this crazy you’re going to have to accept all the other theories of equivalent craziness.
There’s a stack in the corner. Get started …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 4:51 utc | 707

Maybe too an idea crazy. But I just can’t believe Israeli intel didn’t know such an attack was a risk.
Posted by: Dave | Nov 2 2023 4:41 utc | 350
If you’re going to accept a theory this crazy you’re going to have to accept all the other theories of equivalent craziness.
There’s a stack in the corner. Get started …

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 4:51 utc | 708

Thank you karl and I congratulate you on your very good eyesight and great wisdom.

Posted by: Hutch | Nov 2 2023 4:53 utc | 709

Thank you karl and I congratulate you on your very good eyesight and great wisdom.

Posted by: Hutch | Nov 2 2023 4:53 utc | 710

The US greenlighted the Israeli plan to push the Gazans into Egypt. A provocation was required to start the ball rolling. There seems to be an idea that the show of naval force can contain any potential backlash. This idea may be tested. By whom, how many, and to what effect unknown. The NPR piece mentioned above that put forward that a long standing problem was solved with sufficient force seems to be a prominent line of reasoning currently amongst a broader group of people than just the neocons. I believe we’ve been here before.

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 2 2023 4:54 utc | 711

The US greenlighted the Israeli plan to push the Gazans into Egypt. A provocation was required to start the ball rolling. There seems to be an idea that the show of naval force can contain any potential backlash. This idea may be tested. By whom, how many, and to what effect unknown. The NPR piece mentioned above that put forward that a long standing problem was solved with sufficient force seems to be a prominent line of reasoning currently amongst a broader group of people than just the neocons. I believe we’ve been here before.

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 2 2023 4:54 utc | 712

karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 4:46 utc | 352
I guess we wont ever know what was said there but I think Putin bringing up the siege of Leningrad early on is worth remembering. Just from that alone, I can’t see Russia just standing by while the Israeli attack on Gaza continues. Also what the Zionists are doing to Palestine, their public utterances on genocide – that’s what Hitler tried to do to slavic Russia.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 5:01 utc | 713

karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 4:46 utc | 352
I guess we wont ever know what was said there but I think Putin bringing up the siege of Leningrad early on is worth remembering. Just from that alone, I can’t see Russia just standing by while the Israeli attack on Gaza continues. Also what the Zionists are doing to Palestine, their public utterances on genocide – that’s what Hitler tried to do to slavic Russia.

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 5:01 utc | 714

This was interesting. I’m not familiar with the ruling or even who was involved. Maybe someone can enlighten us all. International law v our rules based NWO. And all that stuff.
RIA Novosti: Israel does not have the right to self-defense as an occupying power, this is confirmed by the conclusion of the International Court of Justice in 2004, said Permanent Representative of Russia to the United Nations, Vasily Nebenzya.
At the same time, he emphasized that the Russian Federation recognizes Israel’s right to ensure its security.
Palestine previously stated that Israel does not have the right to self-defense. Almost all major players in the political world (USA, Italy, Spain, Britain, Canada, etc.) hold the opposite opinion, although many of them with the caveat that “this right does not allow the Jewish state to kill civilians”

Posted by: Hankster | Nov 2 2023 5:26 utc | 715

This was interesting. I’m not familiar with the ruling or even who was involved. Maybe someone can enlighten us all. International law v our rules based NWO. And all that stuff.
RIA Novosti: Israel does not have the right to self-defense as an occupying power, this is confirmed by the conclusion of the International Court of Justice in 2004, said Permanent Representative of Russia to the United Nations, Vasily Nebenzya.
At the same time, he emphasized that the Russian Federation recognizes Israel’s right to ensure its security.
Palestine previously stated that Israel does not have the right to self-defense. Almost all major players in the political world (USA, Italy, Spain, Britain, Canada, etc.) hold the opposite opinion, although many of them with the caveat that “this right does not allow the Jewish state to kill civilians”

Posted by: Hankster | Nov 2 2023 5:26 utc | 716

Posted by: Hankster | Nov 2 2023 5:26 utc | 358
What you’re seeing there are the cracks in the delusion of “International Law” beginning to widen under the pressure of Political Expedience.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 5:42 utc | 717

Posted by: Hankster | Nov 2 2023 5:26 utc | 358
What you’re seeing there are the cracks in the delusion of “International Law” beginning to widen under the pressure of Political Expedience.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 5:42 utc | 718

i think most here find you don’t add anything to the conversation.. that is my impression anyway..
Posted by: james | Nov 1 2023 23:35 utc | 251
james, I hope you’re still here. The time diff. is a problem.
First, thanks for the little word to Ed about me. Ed was wrong and I appreciate your backup.
Also, I think the Sandy F. poster is good for the bar. (Certainly has the Arch Bungle poster
figured out pretty well.) The bar is more chaotic than ever and it takes a lot of time to
keep up with everyone and imo people have not read close enough. Anyway -cheers!

Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 2 2023 5:59 utc | 719

i think most here find you don’t add anything to the conversation.. that is my impression anyway..
Posted by: james | Nov 1 2023 23:35 utc | 251
james, I hope you’re still here. The time diff. is a problem.
First, thanks for the little word to Ed about me. Ed was wrong and I appreciate your backup.
Also, I think the Sandy F. poster is good for the bar. (Certainly has the Arch Bungle poster
figured out pretty well.) The bar is more chaotic than ever and it takes a lot of time to
keep up with everyone and imo people have not read close enough. Anyway -cheers!

Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 2 2023 5:59 utc | 720

@ waynorinorway | Nov 2 2023 5:59 utc | 360
thanks.. i will have to ponder that.. just got home from seeing some live music.. off to read…

Posted by: james | Nov 2 2023 6:14 utc | 721

@ waynorinorway | Nov 2 2023 5:59 utc | 360
thanks.. i will have to ponder that.. just got home from seeing some live music.. off to read…

Posted by: james | Nov 2 2023 6:14 utc | 722

Re: Arch Bungle “If you’re going to accept a theory this crazy you’re going to have to accept all the other theories of equivalent craziness.”
Lol pretty much agree. But I’m seeing feds everywhere after J6 and years of similar provocateur work.
This is also interesting, from Richard Medhurst. US+Israel intend to build their own competitor to the Suez Canal: https://twitter.com/richimedhurst/status/1719843625784266992

Posted by: Dave | Nov 2 2023 6:22 utc | 723

Re: Arch Bungle “If you’re going to accept a theory this crazy you’re going to have to accept all the other theories of equivalent craziness.”
Lol pretty much agree. But I’m seeing feds everywhere after J6 and years of similar provocateur work.
This is also interesting, from Richard Medhurst. US+Israel intend to build their own competitor to the Suez Canal: https://twitter.com/richimedhurst/status/1719843625784266992

Posted by: Dave | Nov 2 2023 6:22 utc | 724

I didn’t realize Putin had compared the siege of Gaza to the siege of Leningrad. I thought of it all by myself somewhere in this thread, which means I concur.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 2 2023 6:35 utc | 725

I didn’t realize Putin had compared the siege of Gaza to the siege of Leningrad. I thought of it all by myself somewhere in this thread, which means I concur.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 2 2023 6:35 utc | 726

“Remote landlocked Xinjiang is further closed off to independent foreigners”
Utter nonsense. Anyone who is legally in the country can buy a train, bus or plane ticket and go there. Or drive there if they have a valid license. Please stop attempting to spread this kind of garbage propaganda.

Posted by: BillB | Nov 2 2023 6:45 utc | 727

“Remote landlocked Xinjiang is further closed off to independent foreigners”
Utter nonsense. Anyone who is legally in the country can buy a train, bus or plane ticket and go there. Or drive there if they have a valid license. Please stop attempting to spread this kind of garbage propaganda.

Posted by: BillB | Nov 2 2023 6:45 utc | 728

“Remote landlocked Xinjiang is further closed off to independent foreigners”
Utter nonsense. Anyone who is legally in the country can buy a train, bus or plane ticket and go there. Or drive there if they have a valid license. Please stop attempting to spread this kind of garbage propaganda.

Posted by: BillB | Nov 2 2023 6:45 utc | 729

“Remote landlocked Xinjiang is further closed off to independent foreigners”
Utter nonsense. Anyone who is legally in the country can buy a train, bus or plane ticket and go there. Or drive there if they have a valid license. Please stop attempting to spread this kind of garbage propaganda.

Posted by: BillB | Nov 2 2023 6:45 utc | 730

Unfortunately, b, doesn’t clearly spell out the whole truth about Hamas winning the 2006 Palestinian elections and what that really meant at the time — eg

It was led by Muhammad Dahlan of the Fatah, which was also leading the Palestinian Authority, who, with U.S. support, was trying to overthrow the legally elected Hamas government of Gaza.

It wasn’t a Government of Gaza – it was the still legitimate Palestinian Government – and it still is today imo. The following info sources may help those not very aware of the history.
BUT b is certainly right when he says: It is a long complex story.

WIKI – After months of intermittent talks, on 8 February 2007, Fatah and Hamas signed an agreement to form a national unity government aimed at ending both the spasm of violence and the international aid embargo that followed the formation of the initial Hamas-led government (Feb 2006).
After the takeover in Gaza by Hamas on 14 June 2007 in the Battle of Gaza (2007), Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas dismissed the Hamas-led coalition government and on 15 June 2007 appointed Salam Fayyad as Prime Minister to form a new government. Hamas objected to this move as being illegal.
Though the new government’s authority is claimed to extend to all Palestinian territories, in effect it is limited to the Palestinian Authority controlled areas of the West Bank and excludes Gaza. Thus Hamas’ right to lead a Palestinian Authority government had come to an end.

PLUS the facts are:

Legislative elections were held in the Palestinian territories on 25 January 2006 in order to elect the second Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC), the legislature of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA). The result was a victory for Hamas, contesting under the list name of Change and Reform, which received 44.45% of the vote and won 74 of the 132 seats, whilst the ruling Fatah received 41.43% of the vote and won 45 seats.
NEW Prime Minister was Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas –
The newly elected PLC met for the first time on 18 February 2006. Incumbent Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei tendered his resignation on 26 January 2006, but remained interim Prime Minister at the request of President Mahmoud Abbas. On 20 February, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh was nominated to form a new government. The new government [OF ALL PALESTINE] with Haniyeh as Prime Minister was sworn in on 29 March. These were the last contested elections to be held before Hamas took over the Gaza Strip in 2007 [after a Coup attempt mentioned by b above];
no new elections have been held since.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election

Change and Reform Party aka HAMAS won the election to Govern ALL of Palestinian occupied Territories. Fatah Lost Big Time! But they too SOLD OUT HAMAS and ALL the Palestinian People over time (imo).
Israel and the US intervened ILLEGALLY and Financially to block HAMAS from “fully” taking Power of the Palestinian Authority and the second Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) .. then came the Shalit intervention as the excuse to completely topple Hamas from power with PA / Abbas help.
Another Crime Against Humanity by Israel and the US, and the UN and every nation on Earth who failed to enforce the results of this proven free and fair democratic Election (imo).
From wiki

An exit poll conducted by Near East Consulting on 15 February 2006 on voters participating in the 2006 PA elections revealed the following responses to major concerns:

Support for a Peace Agreement with Israel: 79.5% in support; 15.5% in opposition
Should Hamas change its policies regarding Israel: Yes – 75.2%; No – 24.8%
Under Hamas corruption will decrease: Yes – 78.1%; No – 21.9%
Under Hamas internal security will improve: Yes – 67.8%; No – 32.2%
Hamas government priorities:
1) Combatting corruption; 2) Ending security chaos; 3) Solving poverty/unemployment
Support for Hamas’ impact on the national interest: Positive – 66.7&; Negative – 28.5%
Support for a national unity government?: Yes – 81.4%; no – 18.6%
Rejection of Fatah’s decision not to join a national unity government:
Yes – 72.5%; No – 27.5%
Satisfaction with election results: 64.2% satisfied; 35.8% dissatisfied

I suggest reading the above again … and slowly – let it sink in – that was January 2006.
Hamas had just won the election in an unexpected LANDSLIDE …. and then later JUNE 2006

Detention of Ministers and MPs — 2006 Gaza cross-border raid by ISRAEL
After the kidnap of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit on 25 June 2006, Israel launched a series of raids into Gaza and the West Bank. Israel destroyed civilian infrastructure and arrested dozens of Hamas supporters, including elected cabinet ministers and members of the PLC. On 28 June overnight, the army invaded Gaza and performed airstrikes, bombing infrastructure such as bridges and an electricity station.
On 29 June, the IDF detained from the West Bank 8 ministers and 26 PLC members in addition to many other political leaders. By August 2006, Israel had arrested 49 senior Hamas officials, all from the West Bank, including 33 parliamentarians, “because technically they were members of a terrorist organisation although they may not be involved in terrorist acts themselves”.
Most of the Hamas detainees were moderate members from the West Bank who had been calling on the Gaza leadership to recognise Israel and make the party more acceptable to the international community. Hamas has accused Israel of trying to destroy the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority.
With the formation of the government, the Quartet set three conditions for the Hamas-led government: recognition of the agreements signed between Israel and the PLO, recognition of Israel and renunciation of support for terrorism. Hamas refused these conditions.

THE Quartet had no LEGAL RIGHT to set such conditions (imo).
Other REFS
https://www.iemed.org/publication/the-year-of-the-victory-of-hamas/
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2006/1/26/hamas-wins-huge-majority
https://www.jstor.org/stable/23525766 (paywall sorry)
(very good)
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/cmsdata/212704/Election_report_Palestine_25_January_2006.pdf
https://www.cartercenter.org/news/documents/doc2287.html
At the end of the day none of this really matters now – besides it is not that hard to recognise that bombing civilians is a war crime and is evil. War criminals deserve to be tried in court and then shot, nor allowed to run national governments or lead a nations armed forces.
The rest is Academic. Israel has no right to exist as an independent nation (imo), but until the world’s majority community of nations – even without the US, EU and UK – step up in unison and ACT to intervene militarily and economically and politically against Israel nothing will ever change (imo).

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 2 2023 6:56 utc | 731

Unfortunately, b, doesn’t clearly spell out the whole truth about Hamas winning the 2006 Palestinian elections and what that really meant at the time — eg

It was led by Muhammad Dahlan of the Fatah, which was also leading the Palestinian Authority, who, with U.S. support, was trying to overthrow the legally elected Hamas government of Gaza.

It wasn’t a Government of Gaza – it was the still legitimate Palestinian Government – and it still is today imo. The following info sources may help those not very aware of the history.
BUT b is certainly right when he says: It is a long complex story.

WIKI – After months of intermittent talks, on 8 February 2007, Fatah and Hamas signed an agreement to form a national unity government aimed at ending both the spasm of violence and the international aid embargo that followed the formation of the initial Hamas-led government (Feb 2006).
After the takeover in Gaza by Hamas on 14 June 2007 in the Battle of Gaza (2007), Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas dismissed the Hamas-led coalition government and on 15 June 2007 appointed Salam Fayyad as Prime Minister to form a new government. Hamas objected to this move as being illegal.
Though the new government’s authority is claimed to extend to all Palestinian territories, in effect it is limited to the Palestinian Authority controlled areas of the West Bank and excludes Gaza. Thus Hamas’ right to lead a Palestinian Authority government had come to an end.

PLUS the facts are:

Legislative elections were held in the Palestinian territories on 25 January 2006 in order to elect the second Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC), the legislature of the Palestinian National Authority (PNA). The result was a victory for Hamas, contesting under the list name of Change and Reform, which received 44.45% of the vote and won 74 of the 132 seats, whilst the ruling Fatah received 41.43% of the vote and won 45 seats.
NEW Prime Minister was Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas –
The newly elected PLC met for the first time on 18 February 2006. Incumbent Prime Minister Ahmed Qurei tendered his resignation on 26 January 2006, but remained interim Prime Minister at the request of President Mahmoud Abbas. On 20 February, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh was nominated to form a new government. The new government [OF ALL PALESTINE] with Haniyeh as Prime Minister was sworn in on 29 March. These were the last contested elections to be held before Hamas took over the Gaza Strip in 2007 [after a Coup attempt mentioned by b above];
no new elections have been held since.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election

Change and Reform Party aka HAMAS won the election to Govern ALL of Palestinian occupied Territories. Fatah Lost Big Time! But they too SOLD OUT HAMAS and ALL the Palestinian People over time (imo).
Israel and the US intervened ILLEGALLY and Financially to block HAMAS from “fully” taking Power of the Palestinian Authority and the second Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC) .. then came the Shalit intervention as the excuse to completely topple Hamas from power with PA / Abbas help.
Another Crime Against Humanity by Israel and the US, and the UN and every nation on Earth who failed to enforce the results of this proven free and fair democratic Election (imo).
From wiki

An exit poll conducted by Near East Consulting on 15 February 2006 on voters participating in the 2006 PA elections revealed the following responses to major concerns:

Support for a Peace Agreement with Israel: 79.5% in support; 15.5% in opposition
Should Hamas change its policies regarding Israel: Yes – 75.2%; No – 24.8%
Under Hamas corruption will decrease: Yes – 78.1%; No – 21.9%
Under Hamas internal security will improve: Yes – 67.8%; No – 32.2%
Hamas government priorities:
1) Combatting corruption; 2) Ending security chaos; 3) Solving poverty/unemployment
Support for Hamas’ impact on the national interest: Positive – 66.7&; Negative – 28.5%
Support for a national unity government?: Yes – 81.4%; no – 18.6%
Rejection of Fatah’s decision not to join a national unity government:
Yes – 72.5%; No – 27.5%
Satisfaction with election results: 64.2% satisfied; 35.8% dissatisfied

I suggest reading the above again … and slowly – let it sink in – that was January 2006.
Hamas had just won the election in an unexpected LANDSLIDE …. and then later JUNE 2006

Detention of Ministers and MPs — 2006 Gaza cross-border raid by ISRAEL
After the kidnap of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit on 25 June 2006, Israel launched a series of raids into Gaza and the West Bank. Israel destroyed civilian infrastructure and arrested dozens of Hamas supporters, including elected cabinet ministers and members of the PLC. On 28 June overnight, the army invaded Gaza and performed airstrikes, bombing infrastructure such as bridges and an electricity station.
On 29 June, the IDF detained from the West Bank 8 ministers and 26 PLC members in addition to many other political leaders. By August 2006, Israel had arrested 49 senior Hamas officials, all from the West Bank, including 33 parliamentarians, “because technically they were members of a terrorist organisation although they may not be involved in terrorist acts themselves”.
Most of the Hamas detainees were moderate members from the West Bank who had been calling on the Gaza leadership to recognise Israel and make the party more acceptable to the international community. Hamas has accused Israel of trying to destroy the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority.
With the formation of the government, the Quartet set three conditions for the Hamas-led government: recognition of the agreements signed between Israel and the PLO, recognition of Israel and renunciation of support for terrorism. Hamas refused these conditions.

THE Quartet had no LEGAL RIGHT to set such conditions (imo).
Other REFS
https://www.iemed.org/publication/the-year-of-the-victory-of-hamas/
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2006/1/26/hamas-wins-huge-majority
https://www.jstor.org/stable/23525766 (paywall sorry)
(very good)
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/cmsdata/212704/Election_report_Palestine_25_January_2006.pdf
https://www.cartercenter.org/news/documents/doc2287.html
At the end of the day none of this really matters now – besides it is not that hard to recognise that bombing civilians is a war crime and is evil. War criminals deserve to be tried in court and then shot, nor allowed to run national governments or lead a nations armed forces.
The rest is Academic. Israel has no right to exist as an independent nation (imo), but until the world’s majority community of nations – even without the US, EU and UK – step up in unison and ACT to intervene militarily and economically and politically against Israel nothing will ever change (imo).

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 2 2023 6:56 utc | 732

This is also interesting, from Richard Medhurst. US+Israel intend to build their own competitor to the Suez Canal: https://twitter.com/richimedhurst/status/1719843625784266992
Posted by: Dave | Nov 2 2023 6:22 utc | 362
If that’s the plan Egypt had better start funneling fighters and materiel through those tunnels into Gaza in a hurry!

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 6:56 utc | 733

This is also interesting, from Richard Medhurst. US+Israel intend to build their own competitor to the Suez Canal: https://twitter.com/richimedhurst/status/1719843625784266992
Posted by: Dave | Nov 2 2023 6:22 utc | 362
If that’s the plan Egypt had better start funneling fighters and materiel through those tunnels into Gaza in a hurry!

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 6:56 utc | 734

Re: Recognition of the State of Israel
The State of Israel was recognized in 1948.
However, its borders are defined in the Nov 1947 UNR 181. These borders remain the only internationally recognized border of the Jewish State.
All other boundries are temporary ceasefire lines . This includes the 1967 ceasefire lines – which remain defined as temporary boundries according to the entire international community 181 are the borders period.
(arch please don’t flip out about the injustice of it all; those are simple concrete data points)

Posted by: Exile | Nov 2 2023 7:03 utc | 735

Re: Recognition of the State of Israel
The State of Israel was recognized in 1948.
However, its borders are defined in the Nov 1947 UNR 181. These borders remain the only internationally recognized border of the Jewish State.
All other boundries are temporary ceasefire lines . This includes the 1967 ceasefire lines – which remain defined as temporary boundries according to the entire international community 181 are the borders period.
(arch please don’t flip out about the injustice of it all; those are simple concrete data points)

Posted by: Exile | Nov 2 2023 7:03 utc | 736

Yeah the new idea doing the rounds about Israel wanting a second Suez. It’s sort of plausible. Secures the border but wiping pals clean came well before that idea. I guess we put it in the same category as the Thailand Suez canal proposal. Conveniently placed at the thinnest land bridge that divides Buddhist and Islam communities. It has far more potential to cut travel from Malaysia but still hasn’t gone ahead. Next it will be revamping the old Saudi inland sea using nukes to blast it. Might end up happening but not in the way proposed by Donald McKenzie an engineer around the French Suez time

Posted by: Hankster | Nov 2 2023 7:05 utc | 737

Yeah the new idea doing the rounds about Israel wanting a second Suez. It’s sort of plausible. Secures the border but wiping pals clean came well before that idea. I guess we put it in the same category as the Thailand Suez canal proposal. Conveniently placed at the thinnest land bridge that divides Buddhist and Islam communities. It has far more potential to cut travel from Malaysia but still hasn’t gone ahead. Next it will be revamping the old Saudi inland sea using nukes to blast it. Might end up happening but not in the way proposed by Donald McKenzie an engineer around the French Suez time

Posted by: Hankster | Nov 2 2023 7:05 utc | 738

I can’t see Russia just standing by while the Israeli attack on Gaza continues.
@ Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 5:01 utc | 357
Sure, I can imagine that point, assumption, and hope it is true. BUT every other time the Israelis committed war crimes in Gaza and the West Bank what did Russia and Putin do then?
iirc they did nothing – took no actions not even diplomatic slaps to the wrist. What has Putin done about Israel’s continued illegal unjustified bombing and missiles into Syria? Nothing.
What has he done about the illegal US bases and troops inside Syria? Nothing. When the US and Israel have actually killed Russian armed forces around Syria Putin did nothing.
If now circumstances have changed, re multipolar world, I still cannot see any difference out of the Kremlin or from Lavrov et al.
Waiting to be really shocked and surprised.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 2 2023 7:07 utc | 739

I can’t see Russia just standing by while the Israeli attack on Gaza continues.
@ Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 5:01 utc | 357
Sure, I can imagine that point, assumption, and hope it is true. BUT every other time the Israelis committed war crimes in Gaza and the West Bank what did Russia and Putin do then?
iirc they did nothing – took no actions not even diplomatic slaps to the wrist. What has Putin done about Israel’s continued illegal unjustified bombing and missiles into Syria? Nothing.
What has he done about the illegal US bases and troops inside Syria? Nothing. When the US and Israel have actually killed Russian armed forces around Syria Putin did nothing.
If now circumstances have changed, re multipolar world, I still cannot see any difference out of the Kremlin or from Lavrov et al.
Waiting to be really shocked and surprised.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 2 2023 7:07 utc | 740

These people clearly haven’t learned anything since the 1983 Beirut barracks bombings.
History really does repeat itself, doesn’t it?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 2:09 utc | 300
Yes. The arrogance.

Posted by: Passerby | Nov 2 2023 7:08 utc | 741

These people clearly haven’t learned anything since the 1983 Beirut barracks bombings.
History really does repeat itself, doesn’t it?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 2:09 utc | 300
Yes. The arrogance.

Posted by: Passerby | Nov 2 2023 7:08 utc | 742

Exile | Nov 2 2023 7:03 utc | 368
Even the 47 resolution has no weight. its simply a unga “recomends”

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 7:15 utc | 743

Exile | Nov 2 2023 7:03 utc | 368
Even the 47 resolution has no weight. its simply a unga “recomends”

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 7:15 utc | 744

Seems like another Suez crisis waiting to happen. Just like last time, old empires will wane and new ones arise. But France and the UK will remain permanent members in the UNSC with veto power no matter what. Or will they?

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 2 2023 7:23 utc | 745

Seems like another Suez crisis waiting to happen. Just like last time, old empires will wane and new ones arise. But France and the UK will remain permanent members in the UNSC with veto power no matter what. Or will they?

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 2 2023 7:23 utc | 746

@ Exile | Nov 2 2023 7:03 utc | 368

Re: Recognition of the State of Israel
The State of Israel was recognized in 1948.

Not be everyone. It took a long while for states (and the UN) to get on board. Saudis still have not recognised Israel btw.

However, its borders are defined in the Nov 1947 UNR 181. These borders remain the only internationally recognized border of the Jewish State.

I have made several points about 181 https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/10/palestine-open-thread-2023-256/comments/page/4/#comments
First it has no legal standing. 181 was never implemented even if a small majority of states voted for it – 181 was totally abandoned – it has no legal effect on anyone or any thing.
Furthermore – even ISRAEL’s 1948 declaration as a State has NO RELEVANCE to 181 –
They did not use the borders laid out in 181, they never acknowledged Palestinian rights or State rights / legitimacy of a State, they never implemented a single Economic Zone, never agreed to an Internationally Governed Jerusalem …. and on and on.
Furthermore Israel did not abide by ANY Clause or Requirement of UN RES 181
Nor did the UN Security Council do what it was asked to do under 181
Nor did any State in the world do what they were asked to do under 181

181 is a total FICTION of zero relevance to Palestine today or in 1947 when it was voted on.
UN RES 181 is Nothing and means even less!
Israel’s existence is a Crime Against All Humanity.
Israel and the Zionists have always totally rejected a Two-State solution since the 1900s
Israel’s dissolution as a State and the Right of Return of ALL Palestinian Refugees to the Land and State of Palestine is the ONLY true viable solution.
Anything less is a Crime.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 2 2023 7:29 utc | 747

@ Exile | Nov 2 2023 7:03 utc | 368

Re: Recognition of the State of Israel
The State of Israel was recognized in 1948.

Not be everyone. It took a long while for states (and the UN) to get on board. Saudis still have not recognised Israel btw.

However, its borders are defined in the Nov 1947 UNR 181. These borders remain the only internationally recognized border of the Jewish State.

I have made several points about 181 https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/10/palestine-open-thread-2023-256/comments/page/4/#comments
First it has no legal standing. 181 was never implemented even if a small majority of states voted for it – 181 was totally abandoned – it has no legal effect on anyone or any thing.
Furthermore – even ISRAEL’s 1948 declaration as a State has NO RELEVANCE to 181 –
They did not use the borders laid out in 181, they never acknowledged Palestinian rights or State rights / legitimacy of a State, they never implemented a single Economic Zone, never agreed to an Internationally Governed Jerusalem …. and on and on.
Furthermore Israel did not abide by ANY Clause or Requirement of UN RES 181
Nor did the UN Security Council do what it was asked to do under 181
Nor did any State in the world do what they were asked to do under 181

181 is a total FICTION of zero relevance to Palestine today or in 1947 when it was voted on.
UN RES 181 is Nothing and means even less!
Israel’s existence is a Crime Against All Humanity.
Israel and the Zionists have always totally rejected a Two-State solution since the 1900s
Israel’s dissolution as a State and the Right of Return of ALL Palestinian Refugees to the Land and State of Palestine is the ONLY true viable solution.
Anything less is a Crime.

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 2 2023 7:29 utc | 748

Posted by: Augusto Pi | Nov 1 2023 17:17 utc | 74

The Germans did elect Hitler.

They did not. The Germans elected Hindenberg in the 1932 election. After a cycle in which the NSDAP vote in the Reichstag elections declined, Hindenberg appointed Hitler chancellor in January 1933 after Hitler agreed to suppress an SPD tax fraud investigation that threatened to destroy the Junker class of Prussia.
If you discuss Hamas without considering the role that Likud PMs starting with ex-terrorist Menachem Begin have had in promoting it as a counterweight to the PLO and foisting it and even forcing it on on the Palestinian public, much as the US promoted proto-Al-Qaeda in 1980 and ISIS in Syria in 2012 for its own nefarious reasons, then your discussion can’t be considered serious.

Posted by: aij | Nov 2 2023 7:33 utc | 749

Posted by: Augusto Pi | Nov 1 2023 17:17 utc | 74

The Germans did elect Hitler.

They did not. The Germans elected Hindenberg in the 1932 election. After a cycle in which the NSDAP vote in the Reichstag elections declined, Hindenberg appointed Hitler chancellor in January 1933 after Hitler agreed to suppress an SPD tax fraud investigation that threatened to destroy the Junker class of Prussia.
If you discuss Hamas without considering the role that Likud PMs starting with ex-terrorist Menachem Begin have had in promoting it as a counterweight to the PLO and foisting it and even forcing it on on the Palestinian public, much as the US promoted proto-Al-Qaeda in 1980 and ISIS in Syria in 2012 for its own nefarious reasons, then your discussion can’t be considered serious.

Posted by: aij | Nov 2 2023 7:33 utc | 750

181
Every single UNSC and UNR subsequent to 181 references 181. 🙂

Posted by: Exile | Nov 2 2023 7:39 utc | 751

181
Every single UNSC and UNR subsequent to 181 references 181. 🙂

Posted by: Exile | Nov 2 2023 7:39 utc | 752

@ Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 2 2023 7:29 utc | 374 +++
Appreciate your posts over the past few days. You’re one of
just a few to state things without obfuscation or qualification,
hard-hitting and right on target, imo.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 2 2023 7:42 utc | 753

@ Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 2 2023 7:29 utc | 374 +++
Appreciate your posts over the past few days. You’re one of
just a few to state things without obfuscation or qualification,
hard-hitting and right on target, imo.

Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 2 2023 7:42 utc | 754

More than a hundred years ago Palestine was a province of the Ottoman Empire; a Muslim country with a Jewish minority. After the Turks came the British and the Americans. I do not think China is interested. So it looks as if, after American power has been exhausted, Palestine will be returning to what it was.

Posted by: Passerby | Nov 2 2023 7:42 utc | 755

More than a hundred years ago Palestine was a province of the Ottoman Empire; a Muslim country with a Jewish minority. After the Turks came the British and the Americans. I do not think China is interested. So it looks as if, after American power has been exhausted, Palestine will be returning to what it was.

Posted by: Passerby | Nov 2 2023 7:42 utc | 756

Saudi economy hit a budget deficit 7 times larger than the previous 3 months .
1 hour ago

Posted by: Hutch | Nov 2 2023 7:45 utc | 757

Saudi economy hit a budget deficit 7 times larger than the previous 3 months .
1 hour ago

Posted by: Hutch | Nov 2 2023 7:45 utc | 758

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 2 2023 4:32 utc | 345
Prior to 2010 there were elections held in Jewish Occupied Palestine. I don’t recall the name of the winners, but I do recall that the Jews didn’t like it and promptly arrested and jailed them – thus preventing the emergence of a legitimtate, sovereign, Palestinian Parliament.
“…the Bush administration took engagement to unprecedented lengths. It pushed for Palestinian elections, and then when Hamas defeated the US-backed Fatah faction, America attempted to overturn the result. The Bush administration helped arm and train Palestinian militias opposed to Hamas and vetoed a Palestinian “national unity government.” It supported the Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip and politicized financial aid to bolster Palestinian leaders whose legitimacy, as they have effectively become Israeli quislings, has all but vanished. At the same time, the United States and the Quartet imposed lopsided preconditions for dialogue that they well know Hamas cannot accept.
Absolutely none of this has changed under the Obama administration. Despite lip service about easing it, the United States continues to support Israel’s criminal blockade of the Gaza Strip, and like the Bush administration, Obama has never criticized Israel’s attack on Gaza despite incontestable evidence of atrocities and war crimes.
America continues to funnel arms and money to Fatah-controlled militias, encouraging them to attack Hamas in the West Bank, sabotaging the possibility of intra-Palestinian reconciliation.”
https://electronicintifada.net/content/why-obamas-peace-process-still-going-nowhere/8369

Posted by: Menz | Nov 2 2023 7:48 utc | 759

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 2 2023 4:32 utc | 345
Prior to 2010 there were elections held in Jewish Occupied Palestine. I don’t recall the name of the winners, but I do recall that the Jews didn’t like it and promptly arrested and jailed them – thus preventing the emergence of a legitimtate, sovereign, Palestinian Parliament.
“…the Bush administration took engagement to unprecedented lengths. It pushed for Palestinian elections, and then when Hamas defeated the US-backed Fatah faction, America attempted to overturn the result. The Bush administration helped arm and train Palestinian militias opposed to Hamas and vetoed a Palestinian “national unity government.” It supported the Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip and politicized financial aid to bolster Palestinian leaders whose legitimacy, as they have effectively become Israeli quislings, has all but vanished. At the same time, the United States and the Quartet imposed lopsided preconditions for dialogue that they well know Hamas cannot accept.
Absolutely none of this has changed under the Obama administration. Despite lip service about easing it, the United States continues to support Israel’s criminal blockade of the Gaza Strip, and like the Bush administration, Obama has never criticized Israel’s attack on Gaza despite incontestable evidence of atrocities and war crimes.
America continues to funnel arms and money to Fatah-controlled militias, encouraging them to attack Hamas in the West Bank, sabotaging the possibility of intra-Palestinian reconciliation.”
https://electronicintifada.net/content/why-obamas-peace-process-still-going-nowhere/8369

Posted by: Menz | Nov 2 2023 7:48 utc | 760

U.S. intelligence agencies all but stopped spying on Hamas and other violent Palestinian groups in the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the U.S., instead directing resources to the hunt for the leaders of al Qaeda and, later, Islamic State, according to U.S. officials familiar with the shift.
Calculating that Hamas had never directly threatened the U.S. and burdened with other spying priorities, Washington ceded the responsibility to Israel, confident that its aggressive security services would detect any threat, the U.S. officials said. It should have been “a well-placed bet,” said one senior counterterrorism official.
https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/u-s-all-but-stopped-spying-on-hamas-in-years-after-9-11-ebe8d61d

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 2 2023 8:00 utc | 761

U.S. intelligence agencies all but stopped spying on Hamas and other violent Palestinian groups in the years after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the U.S., instead directing resources to the hunt for the leaders of al Qaeda and, later, Islamic State, according to U.S. officials familiar with the shift.
Calculating that Hamas had never directly threatened the U.S. and burdened with other spying priorities, Washington ceded the responsibility to Israel, confident that its aggressive security services would detect any threat, the U.S. officials said. It should have been “a well-placed bet,” said one senior counterterrorism official.
https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/u-s-all-but-stopped-spying-on-hamas-in-years-after-9-11-ebe8d61d

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 2 2023 8:00 utc | 762

As`ad AbuKhalil’s (AKA The Angry Arab) latest articale in Constortium News:
https://consortiumnews.com/2023/11/01/asad-abukhalil-do-you-condemn-israel/

Posted by: Menz | Nov 2 2023 8:19 utc | 763

As`ad AbuKhalil’s (AKA The Angry Arab) latest articale in Constortium News:
https://consortiumnews.com/2023/11/01/asad-abukhalil-do-you-condemn-israel/

Posted by: Menz | Nov 2 2023 8:19 utc | 764

article

Posted by: Menz | Nov 2 2023 8:20 utc | 765

article

Posted by: Menz | Nov 2 2023 8:20 utc | 766

Y’all need to head over to Larry Johnson’s and look at the lead story.
People need to watch the videos he has posted on today’s article
before they are removed.
Posted by: ld | Nov 2 2023 3:59 utc | 333

Thanks for that, good tip.
But then I went and looked at his ‘Hamas 2017 Charter’ article. Unfortunately.
Larry said:

The only hope for Israel and the West to avoid an eschatological religious war is to separate Hamas from the Palestinians. The first step is to bring an end to killing Palestinian civilians in a bid to destroy Hamas. As long as the bodies of Palestinian civilians are piling up at the remaining hospitals in Gaza, support for Hamas is likely to grow, not diminish.
Second, Israel should approach Russia and China and seek their assistance in healing the rift with Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt with a pledge that it will end its military operation in Gaza and negotiate the release of Israeli hostages. The way to destroy Hamas is cut off its money. That cannot be done as part of a public relations campaign. It must be done quietly, behind the scenes. I know it sounds counter-intuitive (and risky), but Israel’s only hope for defanging Hamas is to create a viable economic and political path for the Palestinians who have not embraced Hamas.

Clearly Larry Johnson is another cheap mindless servant of Empire, an ass wipe, and a brain dead moron. Too much time living in America and working for the CIA.
Next to Hamas, I am a hard ass on Principles. Their article 20 is piss weak imo.
Hamas in 2017: The document in full
Hamas explains general principles and objectives in 42-article document
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 2 2023 8:33 utc | 767

Y’all need to head over to Larry Johnson’s and look at the lead story.
People need to watch the videos he has posted on today’s article
before they are removed.
Posted by: ld | Nov 2 2023 3:59 utc | 333

Thanks for that, good tip.
But then I went and looked at his ‘Hamas 2017 Charter’ article. Unfortunately.
Larry said:

The only hope for Israel and the West to avoid an eschatological religious war is to separate Hamas from the Palestinians. The first step is to bring an end to killing Palestinian civilians in a bid to destroy Hamas. As long as the bodies of Palestinian civilians are piling up at the remaining hospitals in Gaza, support for Hamas is likely to grow, not diminish.
Second, Israel should approach Russia and China and seek their assistance in healing the rift with Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Egypt with a pledge that it will end its military operation in Gaza and negotiate the release of Israeli hostages. The way to destroy Hamas is cut off its money. That cannot be done as part of a public relations campaign. It must be done quietly, behind the scenes. I know it sounds counter-intuitive (and risky), but Israel’s only hope for defanging Hamas is to create a viable economic and political path for the Palestinians who have not embraced Hamas.

Clearly Larry Johnson is another cheap mindless servant of Empire, an ass wipe, and a brain dead moron. Too much time living in America and working for the CIA.
Next to Hamas, I am a hard ass on Principles. Their article 20 is piss weak imo.
Hamas in 2017: The document in full
Hamas explains general principles and objectives in 42-article document
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full

Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 2 2023 8:33 utc | 768

@ bevin | Nov 1 2023 17:41 utc | 89
i too agree with canuck and psyhcohistorian… i think if you dig deeper you’ll see how boe and federal reserve are linked closely and this would also explains why the uk always goes along with usa agenda too… its about the money… i recommend watching the spiders web documentary on youtube.. well worth the watch and on the british banking system more generally..
Posted by: james | Nov 1 2023 21:16 utc | 201
“It’s about the money”
Finally we are getting somewhere. People who have it all wrong and were taken in by it call me a broken record.
Simply, For providing the truth and trying to free their minds from GROUPTHINK. Rather they themselves admit and take responsibility, that yes, they were taken in by it and voted accordingly – against their own interests. Cheered on by the Economist magazine.
” dig deeper” is the key you have to spend some time learning it and stop talking heads on that box in your living room from leading you by the nose.
P.S. The IMF are at it AGAIN !
https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=61314

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Nov 2 2023 8:40 utc | 769

@ bevin | Nov 1 2023 17:41 utc | 89
i too agree with canuck and psyhcohistorian… i think if you dig deeper you’ll see how boe and federal reserve are linked closely and this would also explains why the uk always goes along with usa agenda too… its about the money… i recommend watching the spiders web documentary on youtube.. well worth the watch and on the british banking system more generally..
Posted by: james | Nov 1 2023 21:16 utc | 201
“It’s about the money”
Finally we are getting somewhere. People who have it all wrong and were taken in by it call me a broken record.
Simply, For providing the truth and trying to free their minds from GROUPTHINK. Rather they themselves admit and take responsibility, that yes, they were taken in by it and voted accordingly – against their own interests. Cheered on by the Economist magazine.
” dig deeper” is the key you have to spend some time learning it and stop talking heads on that box in your living room from leading you by the nose.
P.S. The IMF are at it AGAIN !
https://billmitchell.org/blog/?p=61314

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Nov 2 2023 8:40 utc | 770

Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 2 2023 7:29 (the hyperlink may not be available) posted THIS:

… Israel’s EXISTENCE is a Crime Against All Humanity.

(All CAPITALIZED, boldened, italicized and [bracketed] parts of text in citations are by LongCovid.)
SECONDED! Nothing can be more true than this.

Posted by: LongCovid | Nov 2 2023 8:42 utc | 771

Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 2 2023 7:29 (the hyperlink may not be available) posted THIS:

… Israel’s EXISTENCE is a Crime Against All Humanity.

(All CAPITALIZED, boldened, italicized and [bracketed] parts of text in citations are by LongCovid.)
SECONDED! Nothing can be more true than this.

Posted by: LongCovid | Nov 2 2023 8:42 utc | 772

Is it just my perception or is Israel losing on every available front?
– Economy going down the drain
– Low troop morale
– Multiple open fronts with no strategic depths
– Depleted ammo reserves
– Lots of flanks to be attacked on
– Lots of dense armor concentration
– Tactical raids where more hostages are taken than they could free for no visible gain
– No MBT reserves
– No concept of guerilla and tunnel warfare
– Doing the worst PR job ever
– Antagonizing every single neighbor
– Total denial of their situation
– Internal repression at crazy levels
– Broadcasting their war crimes proudly
– Letting their fascists/nazis run wild
– Making so many mistakes that their enemies don’t have to do more than hold out to win
– Not being able to protect their own population while waging war
– Committing genocide
– Being stuck in past thinking
They are really trying to speedrun the Ukraine disaster.. feels like starting WW2 in Stalingrad.

Posted by: SOS | Nov 2 2023 8:52 utc | 773

Is it just my perception or is Israel losing on every available front?
– Economy going down the drain
– Low troop morale
– Multiple open fronts with no strategic depths
– Depleted ammo reserves
– Lots of flanks to be attacked on
– Lots of dense armor concentration
– Tactical raids where more hostages are taken than they could free for no visible gain
– No MBT reserves
– No concept of guerilla and tunnel warfare
– Doing the worst PR job ever
– Antagonizing every single neighbor
– Total denial of their situation
– Internal repression at crazy levels
– Broadcasting their war crimes proudly
– Letting their fascists/nazis run wild
– Making so many mistakes that their enemies don’t have to do more than hold out to win
– Not being able to protect their own population while waging war
– Committing genocide
– Being stuck in past thinking
They are really trying to speedrun the Ukraine disaster.. feels like starting WW2 in Stalingrad.

Posted by: SOS | Nov 2 2023 8:52 utc | 774

Passerby,
i can imagine the reason why China is not interested is that the Apocalyptic imagination of the three monotheisms who claim Abraham and Moses is quite toxic. Like many in Western Europe who have decided to stay free of this even *or especially* when they had religious people in their families.

Posted by: Minaa | Nov 2 2023 8:52 utc | 775

Passerby,
i can imagine the reason why China is not interested is that the Apocalyptic imagination of the three monotheisms who claim Abraham and Moses is quite toxic. Like many in Western Europe who have decided to stay free of this even *or especially* when they had religious people in their families.

Posted by: Minaa | Nov 2 2023 8:52 utc | 776

Posted by: Pundita | Nov 2 2023 1:36 utc |
Very well said.
The problem Pundita is Mecouris will NEVER invite anybody with an alternative point of view on the Duran. He acts like the mainstream media. So is it any wonder he never learns anything new ?
He massages his own confirmation biases..
But 3 cheers from me and It gives me real hope because you challenged what you saw and thought it through for yourself and not just followed it blindly.
It is a shame that his thinking on the economy and ” money ” is quite frankly absurd. It is all that is missing from some very good geopolitical analysis. However, he just simply refuses to learn.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Nov 2 2023 8:53 utc | 777

Posted by: Pundita | Nov 2 2023 1:36 utc |
Very well said.
The problem Pundita is Mecouris will NEVER invite anybody with an alternative point of view on the Duran. He acts like the mainstream media. So is it any wonder he never learns anything new ?
He massages his own confirmation biases..
But 3 cheers from me and It gives me real hope because you challenged what you saw and thought it through for yourself and not just followed it blindly.
It is a shame that his thinking on the economy and ” money ” is quite frankly absurd. It is all that is missing from some very good geopolitical analysis. However, he just simply refuses to learn.

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Nov 2 2023 8:53 utc | 778

Question:
What are the implications of a permanently stationed U.S Military Force in Gaza as Blinken’s latest speculations seem to suggest?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 8:56 utc | 779

Question:
What are the implications of a permanently stationed U.S Military Force in Gaza as Blinken’s latest speculations seem to suggest?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 8:56 utc | 780

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 1 2023 17:45 utc | 93
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 1 2023 17:49 utc |
This has possibly been sorted now – did Khadyrov suggest a bullet in the forehead for rioters. I have read this also on several occasions, but it was last resort and for injuring or attempting to injure others. I did not like the statement.

Posted by: Inki | Nov 2 2023 8:56 utc | 781

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 1 2023 17:45 utc | 93
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 1 2023 17:49 utc |
This has possibly been sorted now – did Khadyrov suggest a bullet in the forehead for rioters. I have read this also on several occasions, but it was last resort and for injuring or attempting to injure others. I did not like the statement.

Posted by: Inki | Nov 2 2023 8:56 utc | 782

“Saudi economy hit a budget deficit 7 times larger than the previous 3 months .”
1 hour ago
Posted by: Hutch | Nov 2 2023 7:45 utc | 379
Okay, so that’s what the liability side of the balance sheet says. What does the ASSET side of the balance sheet say Hutch?
Saudi economy hit a private sector surplus 7 times larger than the previous 3 months . The private sector being households, businesses and foreigners.
https://www.businessinsider.com/goldmans-jan-hatzius-on-sectoral-balances-2012-12?op=1&r=US&IR=T
Please don’t tell me Hutch that you thought the deficit is like your own household deficit or a business deficit ? If you did please switch off that box in your living room and read this
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deficit-Myth-Modern-Monetary-Economy/dp/1529352525

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Nov 2 2023 9:03 utc | 783

“Saudi economy hit a budget deficit 7 times larger than the previous 3 months .”
1 hour ago
Posted by: Hutch | Nov 2 2023 7:45 utc | 379
Okay, so that’s what the liability side of the balance sheet says. What does the ASSET side of the balance sheet say Hutch?
Saudi economy hit a private sector surplus 7 times larger than the previous 3 months . The private sector being households, businesses and foreigners.
https://www.businessinsider.com/goldmans-jan-hatzius-on-sectoral-balances-2012-12?op=1&r=US&IR=T
Please don’t tell me Hutch that you thought the deficit is like your own household deficit or a business deficit ? If you did please switch off that box in your living room and read this
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Deficit-Myth-Modern-Monetary-Economy/dp/1529352525

Posted by: Echo Chamber | Nov 2 2023 9:03 utc | 784

If the Pentagon really does station occupation (peacekeeping) troops in Gaza – then the Likud is simply brilliant at managing this war.
What’s the old saw about a Israel’s favorite marching song ?
onward Christian Soldiers<\i>

Posted by: Exile | Nov 2 2023 9:13 utc | 785

If the Pentagon really does station occupation (peacekeeping) troops in Gaza – then the Likud is simply brilliant at managing this war.
What’s the old saw about a Israel’s favorite marching song ?
onward Christian Soldiers<\i>

Posted by: Exile | Nov 2 2023 9:13 utc | 786

Question:
What are the implications of a permanently stationed U.S Military Force in Gaza as Blinken’s latest speculations seem to suggest?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 8:56 utc | 390

It’s all about the gas reserves Arch, an opportunity to steal the riches that rightfully belongs to the Palestinians:
“The authors also note it is another war crime for the occupying power to deny the citizens the right to use their own natural resources, including diverting Palestine’s water supply, cutting off access to their fisheries, grabbing agricultural land and destroying olive groves. The financial costs are massive. “To date, the real and opportunity costs of the occupation exclusively in the area of oil and natural gas have accumulated to tens, if not hundreds, of billions of dollars.”
https://www.planetcritical.com/p/everybody-wants-gazas-gas

Posted by: Menz | Nov 2 2023 9:27 utc | 787

Question:
What are the implications of a permanently stationed U.S Military Force in Gaza as Blinken’s latest speculations seem to suggest?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 8:56 utc | 390

It’s all about the gas reserves Arch, an opportunity to steal the riches that rightfully belongs to the Palestinians:
“The authors also note it is another war crime for the occupying power to deny the citizens the right to use their own natural resources, including diverting Palestine’s water supply, cutting off access to their fisheries, grabbing agricultural land and destroying olive groves. The financial costs are massive. “To date, the real and opportunity costs of the occupation exclusively in the area of oil and natural gas have accumulated to tens, if not hundreds, of billions of dollars.”
https://www.planetcritical.com/p/everybody-wants-gazas-gas

Posted by: Menz | Nov 2 2023 9:27 utc | 788

Echo chamber, do not fear it just means that for the last 6 months Saudi Arabia are doing just great like china in the laps of multi polarity. Oh South Africa too

Posted by: Hutch | Nov 2 2023 9:35 utc | 789

Echo chamber, do not fear it just means that for the last 6 months Saudi Arabia are doing just great like china in the laps of multi polarity. Oh South Africa too

Posted by: Hutch | Nov 2 2023 9:35 utc | 790

@137 @ Augusto Pi | Nov 1 2023 17:17 utc | 74
It is both true and untrue that the Germans voted the NSDAP into power. True, because the NSDAP acceded to power via entirely constitutional means. Untrue because in the last free election before the Machtergreifung the NSDAP won only a plurality of 33%.
I’ll vote for “untrue.”
Well, Hitler’s party got the most votes of any party so it it ‘true’; we are anchored here in Canada with Justin Trudeau who in the last election only garnered 31% of the vote.
That’s what happens when you have multiple parties; Netanyahu ‘s Likud party got a small minority-22% I believe in the last election-but now the man is leading the Western world to Armageddon.

Posted by: canuck | Nov 2 2023 9:35 utc | 791

@137 @ Augusto Pi | Nov 1 2023 17:17 utc | 74
It is both true and untrue that the Germans voted the NSDAP into power. True, because the NSDAP acceded to power via entirely constitutional means. Untrue because in the last free election before the Machtergreifung the NSDAP won only a plurality of 33%.
I’ll vote for “untrue.”
Well, Hitler’s party got the most votes of any party so it it ‘true’; we are anchored here in Canada with Justin Trudeau who in the last election only garnered 31% of the vote.
That’s what happens when you have multiple parties; Netanyahu ‘s Likud party got a small minority-22% I believe in the last election-but now the man is leading the Western world to Armageddon.

Posted by: canuck | Nov 2 2023 9:35 utc | 792

You have to consider the recognitions and other factors as well and do you know which state was the first to recognize Israel?

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 2 2023 9:44 utc | 793

You have to consider the recognitions and other factors as well and do you know which state was the first to recognize Israel?

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 2 2023 9:44 utc | 794

Reich embarrasses himself and those who quote him approvingly by failing to mention, almost certainly mendaciously, the class of opinion manipulators and their oligarch paymasters that a moment of investigation can usually identify as the true ringmasters and profiteers of the crude bloodsport of war.
What a POS.
Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 1 2023 19:40 utc | 160
So Anon you would disagree with the following Reich quote:
“The fact that political ideologies are tangible realities is not proof of their vitally necessary character. The bubonic plague was an extraordinary powerful societal reality , but no one wold have regarded it as vitally necessary.”

Posted by: canuck | Nov 2 2023 9:52 utc | 795

Reich embarrasses himself and those who quote him approvingly by failing to mention, almost certainly mendaciously, the class of opinion manipulators and their oligarch paymasters that a moment of investigation can usually identify as the true ringmasters and profiteers of the crude bloodsport of war.
What a POS.
Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 1 2023 19:40 utc | 160
So Anon you would disagree with the following Reich quote:
“The fact that political ideologies are tangible realities is not proof of their vitally necessary character. The bubonic plague was an extraordinary powerful societal reality , but no one wold have regarded it as vitally necessary.”

Posted by: canuck | Nov 2 2023 9:52 utc | 796

@Echo Chamber | Nov 2 2023 8:53 utc | 38
It is more likely that those you trust are a bunch of know-nothings
Ehret has learned from much better sources than them. The vast majority of – in particular – anglosaxon grassroots are severely brainwashed. Though, mostly reasonably honest in making their steady stream of mistakes and in the process influencing many others.
Americans4innovation did expose a lot about the british link but I dont see many refer to them. They may have been critisised for bringing out the truth and recently they seem to have been cancelled. You might add Griffin, author óf the creature of Jekyll Island. He knew a lot about the bristish link but mostly avoided it. The anglophile circles are powerful and it isnt obvious to americans that they benefit from exposing this context.
Larouche was a rare spirit. A great unifier. Unifying good variants of religion and bringing to bear the constructive interplay between religion and science.
Be greatful for there being bright young people like Ehret to carry the torch.
Grab the opportunity and learn.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Nov 2 2023 9:55 utc | 797

@Echo Chamber | Nov 2 2023 8:53 utc | 38
It is more likely that those you trust are a bunch of know-nothings
Ehret has learned from much better sources than them. The vast majority of – in particular – anglosaxon grassroots are severely brainwashed. Though, mostly reasonably honest in making their steady stream of mistakes and in the process influencing many others.
Americans4innovation did expose a lot about the british link but I dont see many refer to them. They may have been critisised for bringing out the truth and recently they seem to have been cancelled. You might add Griffin, author óf the creature of Jekyll Island. He knew a lot about the bristish link but mostly avoided it. The anglophile circles are powerful and it isnt obvious to americans that they benefit from exposing this context.
Larouche was a rare spirit. A great unifier. Unifying good variants of religion and bringing to bear the constructive interplay between religion and science.
Be greatful for there being bright young people like Ehret to carry the torch.
Grab the opportunity and learn.

Posted by: petergrfstrm | Nov 2 2023 9:55 utc | 798

To even attempt to genocide a people in full view of a world where citizens get threatened with jail for wrong pronouns. My mind is melting down at this. Can’t even say fag or tranny as it’s hate speech but world leaders can openly say sub human and final solution , can’t take the phone off my kids as punishment or its abuse but they can cut water food electricity and internet and its seen as generous they aren’t bombed more. Something got to break. It’s round one of the title fight.

Posted by: Hankster | Nov 2 2023 9:56 utc | 799

To even attempt to genocide a people in full view of a world where citizens get threatened with jail for wrong pronouns. My mind is melting down at this. Can’t even say fag or tranny as it’s hate speech but world leaders can openly say sub human and final solution , can’t take the phone off my kids as punishment or its abuse but they can cut water food electricity and internet and its seen as generous they aren’t bombed more. Something got to break. It’s round one of the title fight.

Posted by: Hankster | Nov 2 2023 9:56 utc | 800