Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 1, 2023
Economist Fakes Political History Of Gaza

The Economist is faking history:

Bibi Netanyahu is the wrong man in the wrong placeEconomist – October 31, 2023

In the absence of clear government direction the Israeli defence establishment is doing all the planning. Its preferred solution is to see the PA ultimately return to Gaza, which it controlled until Hamas’s coup in 2007.


bigger

There was no 'Hamas coup', neither in 2007 nor before or after it. But there was indeed a coup attempt in Gaza. It was led by Muhammad Dahlan of the Fatah, which was also leading the Palestinian Authority, who, with U.S. support, was trying to overthrow the legally elected Hamas government of Gaza.

The Gaza BombshellVanity Fair – March 3, 2008

After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.

Then President Bush called Muhammad Dahlan 'our guy' and did everything he could to further a coup:

Vanity Fair has obtained confidential documents, since corroborated by sources in the U.S. and Palestine, which lay bare a covert initiative, approved by Bush and implemented by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Deputy National Security Adviser Elliott Abrams, to provoke a Palestinian civil war. The plan was for forces led by Dahlan, and armed with new weapons supplied at America’s behest, to give Fatah the muscle it needed to remove the democratically elected Hamas-led government from power.

It is a long complex story. In the end the Bush administration gave up and simply tried to ignore Hamas and Gaza. That did not work either.

As the Vanity Fair piece concluded at that time:

It is impossible to say for sure whether the outcome in Gaza would have been any better—for the Palestinian people, for the Israelis, and for America’s allies in Fatah—if the Bush administration had pursued a different policy. One thing, however, seems certain: it could not be any worse.

Seeing how helpless the Palestinians are in the West Bank, where the settlers and army are torturing and terrorizing them, it is difficult to agree with that conclusion.

Comments

Johnny Dollar re Matthew Ehret — Be that as it may about him, I thought his appearance on the Duran was strange. Had nothing to do with the ME situation, despite being advertised as such.
Posted by: Pundita | Nov 2 2023 1:57 utc | 298
I don’t know how Duran works or who approached who. Perhaps with all the Apocalyptic stuff going on Mercouris thought it was a good idea to talk about money. Most people have bank accounts.

Posted by: dh | Nov 2 2023 2:18 utc | 601

Johnny Dollar re Matthew Ehret — Be that as it may about him, I thought his appearance on the Duran was strange. Had nothing to do with the ME situation, despite being advertised as such.
Posted by: Pundita | Nov 2 2023 1:57 utc | 298
I don’t know how Duran works or who approached who. Perhaps with all the Apocalyptic stuff going on Mercouris thought it was a good idea to talk about money. Most people have bank accounts.

Posted by: dh | Nov 2 2023 2:18 utc | 602

Bad enough that Duran should discuss the stock market but the contamination has spread here! (Anybody care to predict where the DOW will be this time next year?)
Posted by: dh | Nov 2 2023 1:56 utc | 297
The ‘experts’, that holy priesthood of people “allowed to discuss the stock market” seem as clueless as to it’s future behaviour as the average day trading housewife.
Why then should the Duran, or your average lay MoAer avoid discussing it?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 2:18 utc | 603

Bad enough that Duran should discuss the stock market but the contamination has spread here! (Anybody care to predict where the DOW will be this time next year?)
Posted by: dh | Nov 2 2023 1:56 utc | 297
The ‘experts’, that holy priesthood of people “allowed to discuss the stock market” seem as clueless as to it’s future behaviour as the average day trading housewife.
Why then should the Duran, or your average lay MoAer avoid discussing it?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 2:18 utc | 604

Why then should the Duran, or your average lay MoAer avoid discussing it?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 2:18 utc | 302
Not sure. But I’ve been reprimanded on occasions for taking an interest in defense stocks. Naughty me.

Posted by: dh | Nov 2 2023 2:21 utc | 605

Why then should the Duran, or your average lay MoAer avoid discussing it?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 2:18 utc | 302
Not sure. But I’ve been reprimanded on occasions for taking an interest in defense stocks. Naughty me.

Posted by: dh | Nov 2 2023 2:21 utc | 606

Posted by: xor | Nov 1 2023 21:28 utc | 206
Demanding complete liberation from colonial occupiers is not a radical position.
Ceding 78% national territory to colonial occupiers is not moderate – it is capitulation.
Arafat was forced into negotiations because of the collapse of Soviet power and the global strengthening of US imperialism in the 80’s/90’s. Despite all his concessions, the Oslo peace process turned out a ruinous fraud.
So it doesn’t Mossad 5d psyops to convince people that Hamas’s ‘radical’ position is in fact the correct one.

Posted by: Browser | Nov 2 2023 2:28 utc | 607

Posted by: xor | Nov 1 2023 21:28 utc | 206
Demanding complete liberation from colonial occupiers is not a radical position.
Ceding 78% national territory to colonial occupiers is not moderate – it is capitulation.
Arafat was forced into negotiations because of the collapse of Soviet power and the global strengthening of US imperialism in the 80’s/90’s. Despite all his concessions, the Oslo peace process turned out a ruinous fraud.
So it doesn’t Mossad 5d psyops to convince people that Hamas’s ‘radical’ position is in fact the correct one.

Posted by: Browser | Nov 2 2023 2:28 utc | 608

I just realised one thing. muslims, jews, christians, hindus and such other faiths you have to believe what you are told. buddhism is the only one that says that you have to find out for yourself if it is the actual reality thing otherwise you have to reject it.
Posted by: AOTP | Nov 1 2023 18:32 utc | 131
########################
Again, I am not a person of high knowledge, I am only a layman.
I know that in Islam questioning is encouraged. Seeking knowledge is not shunned. How any of these religions are practiced is a different matter. Often culture and social norms override the religious texts. A great example is how Pakistani and Indian Muslim families treat brides after marriage. That is quite clearly oppression in Islam, and yet Muslims do it generation after generation anyway.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 2 2023 2:31 utc | 609

I just realised one thing. muslims, jews, christians, hindus and such other faiths you have to believe what you are told. buddhism is the only one that says that you have to find out for yourself if it is the actual reality thing otherwise you have to reject it.
Posted by: AOTP | Nov 1 2023 18:32 utc | 131
########################
Again, I am not a person of high knowledge, I am only a layman.
I know that in Islam questioning is encouraged. Seeking knowledge is not shunned. How any of these religions are practiced is a different matter. Often culture and social norms override the religious texts. A great example is how Pakistani and Indian Muslim families treat brides after marriage. That is quite clearly oppression in Islam, and yet Muslims do it generation after generation anyway.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 2 2023 2:31 utc | 610

@ karlof1 276
You say that the conflict in Palestine will be decided by fight, not by diplomacy – “the only possible way is changing the status quo via combat”. Interestingly, I listened to NPR tonight (Wednesday, Nov.1) -(which I do out of necessity, they kind of monopolized the news on radio in my region, because I do not want to listen to the ach so Christian stations -) and I caught the tail of a report of a reporter from Warsaw, who was talking about the war in Caucasus, and the military take over of parts of Armenia (Nagorno Karabach) by Azerbaijan. He made is very plain that the Armenia is militarily no match to Azeris and the outcome will be decided by the war.
This report made me think, that we will start hearing the same talk in reference to Palestine/Israel – and that this will be pushed as the outcome of – lacking a better word – metaphysical structure. Preparation of the acceptance of the idea that Palestinians need to accept their fate, and slowly become the “American Indians of the Middle East “. I hope not this will not happen.

Posted by: fanto | Nov 2 2023 2:37 utc | 611

@ karlof1 276
You say that the conflict in Palestine will be decided by fight, not by diplomacy – “the only possible way is changing the status quo via combat”. Interestingly, I listened to NPR tonight (Wednesday, Nov.1) -(which I do out of necessity, they kind of monopolized the news on radio in my region, because I do not want to listen to the ach so Christian stations -) and I caught the tail of a report of a reporter from Warsaw, who was talking about the war in Caucasus, and the military take over of parts of Armenia (Nagorno Karabach) by Azerbaijan. He made is very plain that the Armenia is militarily no match to Azeris and the outcome will be decided by the war.
This report made me think, that we will start hearing the same talk in reference to Palestine/Israel – and that this will be pushed as the outcome of – lacking a better word – metaphysical structure. Preparation of the acceptance of the idea that Palestinians need to accept their fate, and slowly become the “American Indians of the Middle East “. I hope not this will not happen.

Posted by: fanto | Nov 2 2023 2:37 utc | 612

Summary of events in the last 24 hours:
01/10/2023

23:24 Hezbollah Missiles Hit Israeli Occupation Sites on Border with Lebanon More..
23:06 Yemeni Armed Forces Execute Precision Drone Strikes against Israeli Targets More..
19:29 Hezbollah artillery strikes the Israeli occupation site of Hadab Al-Bustan, inflicting confirmed casualties: statement
17:41 Islamic Resistance fighters target headquarters of newly-established Zarit Battalion and the gathering of its vehicles and forces in Khallet Wardah with artillery shells and appropriate missiles, inflicting confirmed casualties: statement More..
16:14 Israeli media reports rise of number of dead soldiers since Tuesday to 15
15:37 Al-Qassam Brigades: Our fighters are carrying out an attack with explosives inside ” Abu Mtaybek” site in the east of the Central Province and destroyed the observation tower
14:23 Al-Manar correspondent reports the targeting of the two Zionist sites of Al-Malkiyeh and Al-Bayyad off the two Lebanese border towns of Aytaroun and Blida
14:19 Israelimedia says a guided missile has been fired at Yiftah settlement in South Lebanon
14:07 Israeli media reports a security incident in Mount Ramim on border with Lebanon
14:06 Al-Quds Brigades announces firing more missiles at Zionist settlements in Gaza vicinity
13:25 Palestinian Health Ministry says Israeli occupation commits new massacre in Jabalia: Dozens martyred or injured as warplanes strike residential area in Al-Faluja area
11:25 Al-Qassam Brigades says 7 of Israeli captives were killed in Jabalia massacre including 3 of dual nationals
11:22 Imam Khamenei: Muslim countries have to stop exporting oil, food products to the Zionist entity
11:04 Imam Khamenei: World has to know that those who stood against Palestinian people in Gaza are US, UK, and France
11:01 Imam Khamenei: Resolute Gazans wakened the international conscience, rallies taking place even in Western countries
10:58 Al-Qassam Brigades: A drone belonging to our forces fired anti-personnel projectile at Israeli infantry force in Beit Hanoun, north of the Gaza Strip
10:36 Total power outage expected in few hours as Al-Shifa Hospital and Indonesian Hospital are running out of fuel: Health Ministry in Gaza
10:34 Reuters: ‘Limited’ Gaza evacuations via Rafah to be allowed after Qatar brokers deal
10:25 Al-Manar correspondent in the West Bank: Israeli settlers shoot at Palestinian farmers harvesting olives in the town of Qusra, south of Nablus
09:34 Israeli occupation military says sends missile boats to Red Sea area after attacks from Yemen
09:31 Al-Qassam Brigades says destroyed Israeli vehicle with Yassin 105 anti-armor projectile east of Zeitoun neighborhood
09:16 Israeli DM Gallant on deaths of soldiers: Hard and painful blow, but we are ready for a long campaign
09:12 Israeli Army says 9 more soldiers killed in north Gaza, taking troop deaths in Strip to 11
03:43 IOF aircrafts target the vicinity of Al-Quds Hospital in Tal Al-Hawa, Gaza
03:43 The power outage in vast areas of Jenin coincided with the IOF storming the city
03:41 European Union describes the status-quo in the West Bank as “settler terrorism” against Palestinians
03:39 IOF storm Jericho, its camps and Qalqilya, as well as Hazma town northeast occupied Al-Quds
03:36 Bolivia announces severing diplomatic relations with the Zionist entity
02:29 Video | Hezbollah’s Latest Strike on Israeli Border Posts More..
01:39 IOF aircrafts carry out fire belts and launch violent raids on the Al-Zaytoun neighborhood in the Gaza Strip
01:36 US State Department: Blinken is heading to `Israel` on Friday and will have other stops in the region
01:25 Yemen’s Ansarullah Responds to US Threats with Ballistic Missiles More..
00:23 Scottish PM: No more children should be killed, and there must be an immediate ceasefire
00:18 Intense between the resistance and the IOF take place on 2 separate axes near Gaza City, northwest and south of the city
00:15 Gaza’s Ministry of Health Spox: We call on our oil-producing neighbors to intervene and provide fuel to the Shifa Complex and Indonesian Hospital

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 2:38 utc | 613

Summary of events in the last 24 hours:
01/10/2023

23:24 Hezbollah Missiles Hit Israeli Occupation Sites on Border with Lebanon More..
23:06 Yemeni Armed Forces Execute Precision Drone Strikes against Israeli Targets More..
19:29 Hezbollah artillery strikes the Israeli occupation site of Hadab Al-Bustan, inflicting confirmed casualties: statement
17:41 Islamic Resistance fighters target headquarters of newly-established Zarit Battalion and the gathering of its vehicles and forces in Khallet Wardah with artillery shells and appropriate missiles, inflicting confirmed casualties: statement More..
16:14 Israeli media reports rise of number of dead soldiers since Tuesday to 15
15:37 Al-Qassam Brigades: Our fighters are carrying out an attack with explosives inside ” Abu Mtaybek” site in the east of the Central Province and destroyed the observation tower
14:23 Al-Manar correspondent reports the targeting of the two Zionist sites of Al-Malkiyeh and Al-Bayyad off the two Lebanese border towns of Aytaroun and Blida
14:19 Israelimedia says a guided missile has been fired at Yiftah settlement in South Lebanon
14:07 Israeli media reports a security incident in Mount Ramim on border with Lebanon
14:06 Al-Quds Brigades announces firing more missiles at Zionist settlements in Gaza vicinity
13:25 Palestinian Health Ministry says Israeli occupation commits new massacre in Jabalia: Dozens martyred or injured as warplanes strike residential area in Al-Faluja area
11:25 Al-Qassam Brigades says 7 of Israeli captives were killed in Jabalia massacre including 3 of dual nationals
11:22 Imam Khamenei: Muslim countries have to stop exporting oil, food products to the Zionist entity
11:04 Imam Khamenei: World has to know that those who stood against Palestinian people in Gaza are US, UK, and France
11:01 Imam Khamenei: Resolute Gazans wakened the international conscience, rallies taking place even in Western countries
10:58 Al-Qassam Brigades: A drone belonging to our forces fired anti-personnel projectile at Israeli infantry force in Beit Hanoun, north of the Gaza Strip
10:36 Total power outage expected in few hours as Al-Shifa Hospital and Indonesian Hospital are running out of fuel: Health Ministry in Gaza
10:34 Reuters: ‘Limited’ Gaza evacuations via Rafah to be allowed after Qatar brokers deal
10:25 Al-Manar correspondent in the West Bank: Israeli settlers shoot at Palestinian farmers harvesting olives in the town of Qusra, south of Nablus
09:34 Israeli occupation military says sends missile boats to Red Sea area after attacks from Yemen
09:31 Al-Qassam Brigades says destroyed Israeli vehicle with Yassin 105 anti-armor projectile east of Zeitoun neighborhood
09:16 Israeli DM Gallant on deaths of soldiers: Hard and painful blow, but we are ready for a long campaign
09:12 Israeli Army says 9 more soldiers killed in north Gaza, taking troop deaths in Strip to 11
03:43 IOF aircrafts target the vicinity of Al-Quds Hospital in Tal Al-Hawa, Gaza
03:43 The power outage in vast areas of Jenin coincided with the IOF storming the city
03:41 European Union describes the status-quo in the West Bank as “settler terrorism” against Palestinians
03:39 IOF storm Jericho, its camps and Qalqilya, as well as Hazma town northeast occupied Al-Quds
03:36 Bolivia announces severing diplomatic relations with the Zionist entity
02:29 Video | Hezbollah’s Latest Strike on Israeli Border Posts More..
01:39 IOF aircrafts carry out fire belts and launch violent raids on the Al-Zaytoun neighborhood in the Gaza Strip
01:36 US State Department: Blinken is heading to `Israel` on Friday and will have other stops in the region
01:25 Yemen’s Ansarullah Responds to US Threats with Ballistic Missiles More..
00:23 Scottish PM: No more children should be killed, and there must be an immediate ceasefire
00:18 Intense between the resistance and the IOF take place on 2 separate axes near Gaza City, northwest and south of the city
00:15 Gaza’s Ministry of Health Spox: We call on our oil-producing neighbors to intervene and provide fuel to the Shifa Complex and Indonesian Hospital

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 2:38 utc | 614

Correction ; I hope this will not happen

Posted by: fanto | Nov 2 2023 2:38 utc | 615

Correction ; I hope this will not happen

Posted by: fanto | Nov 2 2023 2:38 utc | 616

Hamas is the effective government of Gaza. The people of Gaza apparently approve of Hamas, it’s goals and methods.
Hamas attacked Israel with the sole purpose of murdering people and taking video of their acts of murder. The pro Hamas posters here are part of that.
Hamas, as the government of Gaza is responsible for it’s civilians. Hamas, embeds it operations within it’s civilian population. The civilians have been warned to leave. Hamas is responsible for what happens to them.
Many posters here want to impose a ceasefire and frozen conflict on Israel to perpetuate the conflict forever in the hopes that eventually the Jews will be driven into the sea.
Those same commenters rightly praise Russias refusal to accept a ceasefire and frozen conflict in Ukraine.
Posted by: danf51 | Nov 1 2023 18:54 utc | 141

I agree that Hamas is the legitimate government of Gaza district of the nation of Palestine.
It is an historical fact that since the 67 war, Israel continues to occupy the territory of Palestine, defying numerous UNSC resolutions in the process.
It is a given, that an occupied population has THE RIGHT TO RESIST and if necessary destroy the occupier. Numerous examples are extant… The French Resistance, The Soviet Resistance, and the Yugoslav resistance..
Israel has a peaceful alternative to 75 years of continual blood bath… Reside peacefully within the territory alloted them in UNGA Res 181..
Israel should consult with China to learn how the Chinese dealt successfully with their ughur insurgency, fomented and abetted by NED/NATO, through win-win economic advancement, and should implement such a strategy.
The current trajectory, leads to armageddon….
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 2 2023 2:38 utc | 617

Hamas is the effective government of Gaza. The people of Gaza apparently approve of Hamas, it’s goals and methods.
Hamas attacked Israel with the sole purpose of murdering people and taking video of their acts of murder. The pro Hamas posters here are part of that.
Hamas, as the government of Gaza is responsible for it’s civilians. Hamas, embeds it operations within it’s civilian population. The civilians have been warned to leave. Hamas is responsible for what happens to them.
Many posters here want to impose a ceasefire and frozen conflict on Israel to perpetuate the conflict forever in the hopes that eventually the Jews will be driven into the sea.
Those same commenters rightly praise Russias refusal to accept a ceasefire and frozen conflict in Ukraine.
Posted by: danf51 | Nov 1 2023 18:54 utc | 141

I agree that Hamas is the legitimate government of Gaza district of the nation of Palestine.
It is an historical fact that since the 67 war, Israel continues to occupy the territory of Palestine, defying numerous UNSC resolutions in the process.
It is a given, that an occupied population has THE RIGHT TO RESIST and if necessary destroy the occupier. Numerous examples are extant… The French Resistance, The Soviet Resistance, and the Yugoslav resistance..
Israel has a peaceful alternative to 75 years of continual blood bath… Reside peacefully within the territory alloted them in UNGA Res 181..
Israel should consult with China to learn how the Chinese dealt successfully with their ughur insurgency, fomented and abetted by NED/NATO, through win-win economic advancement, and should implement such a strategy.
The current trajectory, leads to armageddon….
INDY

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 2 2023 2:38 utc | 618

, the Zionist Messianism will still want to attain its goal, which is where the problem lies. That Cult must be deprogrammed.
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 1:00 utc | 276
============
Das ist der Kern des Problems.

Posted by: Jane | Nov 2 2023 2:42 utc | 619

, the Zionist Messianism will still want to attain its goal, which is where the problem lies. That Cult must be deprogrammed.
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 1:00 utc | 276
============
Das ist der Kern des Problems.

Posted by: Jane | Nov 2 2023 2:42 utc | 620

@ Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 1:54 utc | 296
my sentiments exactly, lol.. thanks arch..
john helmer from monday in case anyone missed it..
JEWISH ANTI-SEMITISM TOWARDS ARABS WAS HAMAS’S STRATEGIC OPPORTUNITY ON OCTOBER 7 — STILL IS*

Posted by: james | Nov 2 2023 2:44 utc | 621

@ Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 1:54 utc | 296
my sentiments exactly, lol.. thanks arch..
john helmer from monday in case anyone missed it..
JEWISH ANTI-SEMITISM TOWARDS ARABS WAS HAMAS’S STRATEGIC OPPORTUNITY ON OCTOBER 7 — STILL IS*

Posted by: james | Nov 2 2023 2:44 utc | 622

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 2 2023 2:38 utc | 309
I agree with all of your response except this:

Israel should consult with China to learn how the Chinese dealt successfully with their ughur insurgency, fomented and abetted by NED/NATO, through win-win economic advancement, and should implement such a strategy.

The difference between China and ‘israel’ is that:
a) China is not engaging in an act of settler colonialism with it’s Uighur population (one could in fact argue the Uighurs are settler colonialists).
b) China has no intent to ethnic cleanse the Uighur population (one need only contrast with the actions of ‘israel’ to see what ethnic cleansing looks like)
c) The Uighur population are assured of mutual benefit in integrating with the rest of China as an integral part of the state and nation.
d) the CPC is not threatened by the unique identity of the Uighur people or their integration into Chinese society as another of many ethno-religious groups.
e) There are no third parties whose political interests in the region are affected by a positive CPC relationship with the Uighurs.
None of these five conditions are present vis a vis the Palestinians and ‘israel’.
Therefore the same approach is not even capable of being bootstrapped.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 2:48 utc | 623

Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 2 2023 2:38 utc | 309
I agree with all of your response except this:

Israel should consult with China to learn how the Chinese dealt successfully with their ughur insurgency, fomented and abetted by NED/NATO, through win-win economic advancement, and should implement such a strategy.

The difference between China and ‘israel’ is that:
a) China is not engaging in an act of settler colonialism with it’s Uighur population (one could in fact argue the Uighurs are settler colonialists).
b) China has no intent to ethnic cleanse the Uighur population (one need only contrast with the actions of ‘israel’ to see what ethnic cleansing looks like)
c) The Uighur population are assured of mutual benefit in integrating with the rest of China as an integral part of the state and nation.
d) the CPC is not threatened by the unique identity of the Uighur people or their integration into Chinese society as another of many ethno-religious groups.
e) There are no third parties whose political interests in the region are affected by a positive CPC relationship with the Uighurs.
None of these five conditions are present vis a vis the Palestinians and ‘israel’.
Therefore the same approach is not even capable of being bootstrapped.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 2:48 utc | 624

The State of Israel was formally established by the Israeli Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948, and was admitted to the United Nations (UN) as a full member state on 11 May 1949
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 1:30 utc | 286
==========
This is so annoying!
Note use of the passive mode, “was formally established” on 14 May.
No, it was not. DAvid Ben-Gurion stood up and declared the establishment of the state. It was recognized that very day by President Truman. So, a fait-accomplis plotted by Ben-Gurion and Truman. Who needed Jewish money for his election campaign.
Ben=Gurion (David Green) was the head of the Jewish Agency. Also, the head of a terrorist organization, but the relevant part here is the former position.
That body acted as if it were already the government of a Jewish state in Palestine.
Hence, I see no reason whatsoever why a Palestinian entity can’t do exactly the same thing. The political head of Hamas could simply stand up and declare the existence of the state of Palestine. All that is then required is for a few countries to recognize it. A few larger countries, such as China, would of course be better than, say, the Maldives.

Posted by: Jane | Nov 2 2023 2:50 utc | 625

The State of Israel was formally established by the Israeli Declaration of Independence on 14 May 1948, and was admitted to the United Nations (UN) as a full member state on 11 May 1949
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 1:30 utc | 286
==========
This is so annoying!
Note use of the passive mode, “was formally established” on 14 May.
No, it was not. DAvid Ben-Gurion stood up and declared the establishment of the state. It was recognized that very day by President Truman. So, a fait-accomplis plotted by Ben-Gurion and Truman. Who needed Jewish money for his election campaign.
Ben=Gurion (David Green) was the head of the Jewish Agency. Also, the head of a terrorist organization, but the relevant part here is the former position.
That body acted as if it were already the government of a Jewish state in Palestine.
Hence, I see no reason whatsoever why a Palestinian entity can’t do exactly the same thing. The political head of Hamas could simply stand up and declare the existence of the state of Palestine. All that is then required is for a few countries to recognize it. A few larger countries, such as China, would of course be better than, say, the Maldives.

Posted by: Jane | Nov 2 2023 2:50 utc | 626

No, it was not. DAvid Ben-Gurion stood up and declared the establishment of the state. It was recognized that very day by President Truman. So, a fait-accomplis plotted by Ben-Gurion and Truman. Who needed Jewish money for his election campaign.
Posted by: Jane | Nov 2 2023 2:50 utc | 313
Reminds me of the way Trump simply announced Jerusalem as the undivided capital of ‘israel’.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 3:00 utc | 627

No, it was not. DAvid Ben-Gurion stood up and declared the establishment of the state. It was recognized that very day by President Truman. So, a fait-accomplis plotted by Ben-Gurion and Truman. Who needed Jewish money for his election campaign.
Posted by: Jane | Nov 2 2023 2:50 utc | 313
Reminds me of the way Trump simply announced Jerusalem as the undivided capital of ‘israel’.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 3:00 utc | 628

@ Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 2:48 utc | 312
Remote landlocked Xinjiang is further closed off to independent foreigners, let alone journalists or diplomats: only shills are served the standard Uyghur dance show today. Mum is the word on it, behind the Great Chinese Firewall.
Gaza next to open Israel and the sea on the other hand is over run/ flown/ boated by journalists and NGOs, on world MSM 24/7/365. All that oil money apart from EU funds had to go somewhere.They have their own Internet fiber, dishes, soon Starlink etc.
Gazan secular slave labor like in Xinjiang was never feasible. On top, do the Uyghurs want to evict the Han from China next door, or shot thousands of rockets at them or kidnap them en mass?

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 2 2023 3:03 utc | 629

@ Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 2:48 utc | 312
Remote landlocked Xinjiang is further closed off to independent foreigners, let alone journalists or diplomats: only shills are served the standard Uyghur dance show today. Mum is the word on it, behind the Great Chinese Firewall.
Gaza next to open Israel and the sea on the other hand is over run/ flown/ boated by journalists and NGOs, on world MSM 24/7/365. All that oil money apart from EU funds had to go somewhere.They have their own Internet fiber, dishes, soon Starlink etc.
Gazan secular slave labor like in Xinjiang was never feasible. On top, do the Uyghurs want to evict the Han from China next door, or shot thousands of rockets at them or kidnap them en mass?

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 2 2023 3:03 utc | 630

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 2 2023 3:03 utc | 315

Remote landlocked Xinjiang is further closed off to independent foreigners, let alone journalists or diplomats: only shills are served the standard Uyghur dance show today. Mum is the word on it, behind the Great Chinese Firewall.

Rubbish.

Gaza next to open Israel and the sea on the other hand is over run/ flown/ boated by journalists and NGOs, on world MSM 24/7/365. All that oil money apart from EU funds had to go somewhere.They have their own Internet fiber, dishes, soon Starlink etc.

Rubbish.

Gazan secular slave labor like in Xinjiang was never feasible.

Rubbish.

On top, do the Uyghurs want to evict the Han from China next door, or shot thousands of rockets at them or kidnap them en mass?

Rubbish.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 3:08 utc | 631

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 2 2023 3:03 utc | 315

Remote landlocked Xinjiang is further closed off to independent foreigners, let alone journalists or diplomats: only shills are served the standard Uyghur dance show today. Mum is the word on it, behind the Great Chinese Firewall.

Rubbish.

Gaza next to open Israel and the sea on the other hand is over run/ flown/ boated by journalists and NGOs, on world MSM 24/7/365. All that oil money apart from EU funds had to go somewhere.They have their own Internet fiber, dishes, soon Starlink etc.

Rubbish.

Gazan secular slave labor like in Xinjiang was never feasible.

Rubbish.

On top, do the Uyghurs want to evict the Han from China next door, or shot thousands of rockets at them or kidnap them en mass?

Rubbish.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 3:08 utc | 632

IMO, the Global South is now mostly “aligned” with Hamas. And I don’t see any way any nation could possibly “normalize” its relations with Messianic Genocidal Maniacs, which is what The Zionist government consists of. IMO, these nations severing relations with the Zionists must do the same with the Zionist Outlaw US Empire for whom 10,000 dead isn’t enough yet.
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 1 2023 21:30 utc | 207
—————————————————————-
There is the the rub and the key reference here is ‘International Law.’
The Outlaw US Empire thinks it is the law. Might take a while to play out. The ‘Street’ is one thing. Their ruling elite is another

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Nov 2 2023 3:10 utc | 633

IMO, the Global South is now mostly “aligned” with Hamas. And I don’t see any way any nation could possibly “normalize” its relations with Messianic Genocidal Maniacs, which is what The Zionist government consists of. IMO, these nations severing relations with the Zionists must do the same with the Zionist Outlaw US Empire for whom 10,000 dead isn’t enough yet.
Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 1 2023 21:30 utc | 207
—————————————————————-
There is the the rub and the key reference here is ‘International Law.’
The Outlaw US Empire thinks it is the law. Might take a while to play out. The ‘Street’ is one thing. Their ruling elite is another

Posted by: Acco Hengst | Nov 2 2023 3:10 utc | 634

Jane | Nov 2 2023 2:50 utc | 313
I was looking at it what it takes to become recognized as a state at the UN which is better than just being recognized by a few countries I found after my earlier post, that before the UNGA vote, the the government must get a vote from the security council without veto and then it goes to UNGA for a vote. Then it if official according to international law I assume.
As for the Zionists simply being handed all of Palestine in 1948, which is essentially what happened as no Palestinian government has ever been recognized as far as I know.
But seeing that earlier, that the Zionists stole Palestine from the Palestinians with UN approval and help….

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 3:11 utc | 635

Jane | Nov 2 2023 2:50 utc | 313
I was looking at it what it takes to become recognized as a state at the UN which is better than just being recognized by a few countries I found after my earlier post, that before the UNGA vote, the the government must get a vote from the security council without veto and then it goes to UNGA for a vote. Then it if official according to international law I assume.
As for the Zionists simply being handed all of Palestine in 1948, which is essentially what happened as no Palestinian government has ever been recognized as far as I know.
But seeing that earlier, that the Zionists stole Palestine from the Palestinians with UN approval and help….

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 3:11 utc | 636

Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 3:08 utc | 316 = rubbish 24/7/365

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 2 2023 3:21 utc | 637

Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 3:08 utc | 316 = rubbish 24/7/365

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 2 2023 3:21 utc | 638

This one made me laugh. The Chinese mind is fascinating to me.
Chinese companies purge Israel from maps of the Middle East amid surging antisemitism in the Communist state as Beijing plays neutral peacemaker in Gaza conflict

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 2 2023 3:28 utc | 639

This one made me laugh. The Chinese mind is fascinating to me.
Chinese companies purge Israel from maps of the Middle East amid surging antisemitism in the Communist state as Beijing plays neutral peacemaker in Gaza conflict

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 2 2023 3:28 utc | 640

New substack presentation, “Russia’s Junior Diplomats & Strengthening Traditional Spiritual and Moral Values as a Guarantee of Russian Unity” features two impressive addresses by Lavrov and is finished with a few links to important Russian policy documents barflies will want to add to their collection.
Few know why Russian diplomats are as they are. Lavrov’s first address provides part of the explanation. Even fewer know that Russia’s diplomatic corp is over 550 years old–yes, it’s been schooling and training people to be professionals that long, which goes a long ways in explaining the vast abyss in difference between the political hacks the West appoints and those Russians that seem to last forever.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 3:31 utc | 641

New substack presentation, “Russia’s Junior Diplomats & Strengthening Traditional Spiritual and Moral Values as a Guarantee of Russian Unity” features two impressive addresses by Lavrov and is finished with a few links to important Russian policy documents barflies will want to add to their collection.
Few know why Russian diplomats are as they are. Lavrov’s first address provides part of the explanation. Even fewer know that Russia’s diplomatic corp is over 550 years old–yes, it’s been schooling and training people to be professionals that long, which goes a long ways in explaining the vast abyss in difference between the political hacks the West appoints and those Russians that seem to last forever.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 3:31 utc | 642

As for the Zionists simply being handed all of Palestine in 1948,
Peter Au1 318
==================
The Zionists weren’t just handed most of Palestine.
Occupying most of Palestine was the whole point of the Nakbah.
The State of Israel may have been “officially” recognized by the UN in 1949, but it was definitely a strong-arm situation after the preemptive expulsion of Pals, the preemptive occupation of their lands, the war that the Zionists, armed to a great extent by American jewish mobsters, fought against the Arabs—ending with the preemptive deal with Truman (against the better judgment of actual diplomats in the State Dept.), preemptive “declaration” of existence, and preem0ptive recognition by the US. Truly a “virgin birth.”
These preemptive strikes created the facts on the ground that could not be gainsaid by the Arabs and their allies. The Zionist state has continued with the same “I dare you to stop me” MO ever since, within the UN and elsewhere.
I agree totally with Karlof1–it is obvious.
This is a cult and it has to be exorcised somehow.
These cultists will never play nice with others.

Posted by: Jane | Nov 2 2023 3:33 utc | 643

As for the Zionists simply being handed all of Palestine in 1948,
Peter Au1 318
==================
The Zionists weren’t just handed most of Palestine.
Occupying most of Palestine was the whole point of the Nakbah.
The State of Israel may have been “officially” recognized by the UN in 1949, but it was definitely a strong-arm situation after the preemptive expulsion of Pals, the preemptive occupation of their lands, the war that the Zionists, armed to a great extent by American jewish mobsters, fought against the Arabs—ending with the preemptive deal with Truman (against the better judgment of actual diplomats in the State Dept.), preemptive “declaration” of existence, and preem0ptive recognition by the US. Truly a “virgin birth.”
These preemptive strikes created the facts on the ground that could not be gainsaid by the Arabs and their allies. The Zionist state has continued with the same “I dare you to stop me” MO ever since, within the UN and elsewhere.
I agree totally with Karlof1–it is obvious.
This is a cult and it has to be exorcised somehow.
These cultists will never play nice with others.

Posted by: Jane | Nov 2 2023 3:33 utc | 644

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 2 2023 3:28 utc | 320
A Chinese would say: “Since Israel doesn’t exist on our maps it is not possible for us to be anti-semitic.”
Remove the source of the problem.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 3:34 utc | 645

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 2 2023 3:28 utc | 320
A Chinese would say: “Since Israel doesn’t exist on our maps it is not possible for us to be anti-semitic.”
Remove the source of the problem.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 3:34 utc | 646

I don’t recall any of your posts putting forth anything other than “Hamas Bad Guys, Israel Good!” (pretty unoriginal hasbara fare) and some high-school level name-calling.
What radically new ideas were you intending to contribute to your learned audience?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 1:54 utc | 296
Lol. Says more about your memory and reading/comprehension than my many posts of varying style and substance!
And there you go again, just chiming in cos your vitriol production glands are past full. And you certainly obsess over posters you consider Zionazi Hasbara Trolls when you continually brag you’re over them and tell others don’t feed the trolls … not to mention your own little name-calling habit for anyone who doesn’t see it the same way as you. Lol.
You truly are a bitter old fart, Arch, ESPECIALLY when your childish put-downs fail to elicit your desired reactions.
1. I never said Hamas bad guys. I did suggest Hamas not as perfect and blameless as many make out. Too subtle a difference for you?
2. I never said or even thought Israel good guys. The concept is not within me. Please stop deluding yourself and gaslighting other readers.
3. Do you really want me to repeat again the very controversial topics *you and I have already argued over?* No you don’t. You’re just trying to either bait me into them again or cancel me away from the forum cos you hate hearing what I have to say. Either way, no bites.
Take a rest in the garden Arch. You’re way past boiling point.

Posted by: Sandy Freeman | Nov 2 2023 3:36 utc | 647

I don’t recall any of your posts putting forth anything other than “Hamas Bad Guys, Israel Good!” (pretty unoriginal hasbara fare) and some high-school level name-calling.
What radically new ideas were you intending to contribute to your learned audience?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 1:54 utc | 296
Lol. Says more about your memory and reading/comprehension than my many posts of varying style and substance!
And there you go again, just chiming in cos your vitriol production glands are past full. And you certainly obsess over posters you consider Zionazi Hasbara Trolls when you continually brag you’re over them and tell others don’t feed the trolls … not to mention your own little name-calling habit for anyone who doesn’t see it the same way as you. Lol.
You truly are a bitter old fart, Arch, ESPECIALLY when your childish put-downs fail to elicit your desired reactions.
1. I never said Hamas bad guys. I did suggest Hamas not as perfect and blameless as many make out. Too subtle a difference for you?
2. I never said or even thought Israel good guys. The concept is not within me. Please stop deluding yourself and gaslighting other readers.
3. Do you really want me to repeat again the very controversial topics *you and I have already argued over?* No you don’t. You’re just trying to either bait me into them again or cancel me away from the forum cos you hate hearing what I have to say. Either way, no bites.
Take a rest in the garden Arch. You’re way past boiling point.

Posted by: Sandy Freeman | Nov 2 2023 3:36 utc | 648

Posted by: Sandy Freeman | Nov 2 2023 3:36 utc | 324
There we go again. Not a single original idea. High School level name-calling.
You got anything new?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 3:39 utc | 649

Posted by: Sandy Freeman | Nov 2 2023 3:36 utc | 324
There we go again. Not a single original idea. High School level name-calling.
You got anything new?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 3:39 utc | 650

Gotta kick out of this, shoulda pzzd me off, but it must be some kinda mood I am in. Maybe it was that Yogi Berra documentary I just finished watching.
Whatever. But here it is. It was the first sentence of an article, and it doesn’t really matter where this came from, unless you are taking
financial advice from this guy.

“With the U.S.’s current primary Middle East focus being on trying to ==> deter <== a widening of the Israel-Hamas War, "

Some times you just gotta laugh.
The article goes on to talk about China, Russia and Iran presently cementing oil deals in Iraq. These deals include eventually extending oil infrastructure
through Syria to the Mediterranean coast.
So someone else is winning the battle with pen and paper deals while we are busy being the good guy focusing on bringing peace. (I guess that is what that first sentence was about).
Wonder how many pens you can get out of a scrap pile made of aircraft carriers?

The guy who wrote, “the pen is mightier than the sword”,
never held a job for very long in Washington.

Posted by: librul | Nov 2 2023 3:41 utc | 651

Gotta kick out of this, shoulda pzzd me off, but it must be some kinda mood I am in. Maybe it was that Yogi Berra documentary I just finished watching.
Whatever. But here it is. It was the first sentence of an article, and it doesn’t really matter where this came from, unless you are taking
financial advice from this guy.

“With the U.S.’s current primary Middle East focus being on trying to ==> deter <== a widening of the Israel-Hamas War, "

Some times you just gotta laugh.
The article goes on to talk about China, Russia and Iran presently cementing oil deals in Iraq. These deals include eventually extending oil infrastructure
through Syria to the Mediterranean coast.
So someone else is winning the battle with pen and paper deals while we are busy being the good guy focusing on bringing peace. (I guess that is what that first sentence was about).
Wonder how many pens you can get out of a scrap pile made of aircraft carriers?

The guy who wrote, “the pen is mightier than the sword”,
never held a job for very long in Washington.

Posted by: librul | Nov 2 2023 3:41 utc | 652

fanto | Nov 2 2023 2:37 utc | 306–
NPR has lost the script and doesn’t seem to know that the Armenian PM has said–in 2022– Nagorno-Karabakh belongs to Azerbaijan–so there is nothing to fight over. In comparison, the Palestinian political leadership in Gaza which is Hamas has no intention of such duplicity to its people. the PA in the West Bank, however, is another story altogether. The best equivalent I can think of for them is the Kurds in the PA’s relationship with the Outlaw US Empire, although the Kurds have some agency while the PA has none. I interpret what you relate from NPR to be the basis for building a Narrative to sell to the US public, not any responsible reporting of the facts.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 3:42 utc | 653

fanto | Nov 2 2023 2:37 utc | 306–
NPR has lost the script and doesn’t seem to know that the Armenian PM has said–in 2022– Nagorno-Karabakh belongs to Azerbaijan–so there is nothing to fight over. In comparison, the Palestinian political leadership in Gaza which is Hamas has no intention of such duplicity to its people. the PA in the West Bank, however, is another story altogether. The best equivalent I can think of for them is the Kurds in the PA’s relationship with the Outlaw US Empire, although the Kurds have some agency while the PA has none. I interpret what you relate from NPR to be the basis for building a Narrative to sell to the US public, not any responsible reporting of the facts.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 3:42 utc | 654

@Posted by: fanto | Nov 2 2023 2:37 utc | 306

I listened to NPR tonight (Wednesday, Nov.1) -(which I do out of necessity, they kind of monopolized the news on radio in my region, because I do not want to listen to the ach so Christian stations -)

I haven’t listened to NPR for decades. If it was the last radio station on Earth
it would be one too many.

Posted by: librul | Nov 2 2023 3:50 utc | 655

@Posted by: fanto | Nov 2 2023 2:37 utc | 306

I listened to NPR tonight (Wednesday, Nov.1) -(which I do out of necessity, they kind of monopolized the news on radio in my region, because I do not want to listen to the ach so Christian stations -)

I haven’t listened to NPR for decades. If it was the last radio station on Earth
it would be one too many.

Posted by: librul | Nov 2 2023 3:50 utc | 656

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 3:08 utc | 316
Such great counter-arguments and contra-facts you presented to Antonym, Arch. I’m truly impressed by your knowledge on the subject. Just masterful how you set the record straight and skillfully educated those of us not right up on the subject.

Posted by: Sandy Freeman | Nov 2 2023 3:52 utc | 657

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 3:08 utc | 316
Such great counter-arguments and contra-facts you presented to Antonym, Arch. I’m truly impressed by your knowledge on the subject. Just masterful how you set the record straight and skillfully educated those of us not right up on the subject.

Posted by: Sandy Freeman | Nov 2 2023 3:52 utc | 658

In response to

I agree totally with Karlof1–it is obvious.
This is a cult and it has to be exorcised somehow.
These cultists will never play nice with others.
Posted by: Jane | Nov 2 2023 3:33 utc | 322

On the Palestine Open thread I just left this response to juliania
@ juliania | Nov 2 2023 3:23 utc | 561 with the follow on to our conversation…thanks
It is coming to me that the Arab/Islamic world is going to bring down the God Of Mammon bully through the proxy of Occupied Palestine. This process will dredge up all that thousands of years old inter-religious conflict and am not sure of the outcome.
What I do see though is Islam against the Judaism and Roman Catholicism….will the Orthodox Christians wade in?
And behind the religious war is the reality of private versus public finance which is pitting the private (Judaism and Roman Catholicism) against the public of China and possibly others
So while Islam may see this as a regional religious war, the bigger context within which it is happening says the results of Occupied Palestine will influence the results of our civilization war.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 2 2023 3:54 utc | 659

In response to

I agree totally with Karlof1–it is obvious.
This is a cult and it has to be exorcised somehow.
These cultists will never play nice with others.
Posted by: Jane | Nov 2 2023 3:33 utc | 322

On the Palestine Open thread I just left this response to juliania
@ juliania | Nov 2 2023 3:23 utc | 561 with the follow on to our conversation…thanks
It is coming to me that the Arab/Islamic world is going to bring down the God Of Mammon bully through the proxy of Occupied Palestine. This process will dredge up all that thousands of years old inter-religious conflict and am not sure of the outcome.
What I do see though is Islam against the Judaism and Roman Catholicism….will the Orthodox Christians wade in?
And behind the religious war is the reality of private versus public finance which is pitting the private (Judaism and Roman Catholicism) against the public of China and possibly others
So while Islam may see this as a regional religious war, the bigger context within which it is happening says the results of Occupied Palestine will influence the results of our civilization war.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 2 2023 3:54 utc | 660

As China sells down the USD Japan has replaced them as the top holder and tomorrow i.e.friday,the Japanese chappie is going to Israel to show support while Nasrallah will swear the might of Allah to smite Israel and remove it off the earth.

Posted by: Hutch | Nov 2 2023 3:56 utc | 661

As China sells down the USD Japan has replaced them as the top holder and tomorrow i.e.friday,the Japanese chappie is going to Israel to show support while Nasrallah will swear the might of Allah to smite Israel and remove it off the earth.

Posted by: Hutch | Nov 2 2023 3:56 utc | 662

Jane run onto this twitter thread before. It seems this Scofield rewrote the bible bringing zionism into it. I don’t know how widley it is used in the US or even if it still is used but I thought the last tweet in the thread was interesting in light of what you said about Truman
Twitter thread is about Zionist Christians and Scofield
https://twitter.com/KeithWoodsYT/status/1719438865453179264
“If not for the Scofield Bible, US Presidents influenced by Christian Zionism might have been more willing to put their country’s interests above Israel, and more American Christians would take a critical look at a state where Christians currently face intense persecution.”

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 3:59 utc | 663

Jane run onto this twitter thread before. It seems this Scofield rewrote the bible bringing zionism into it. I don’t know how widley it is used in the US or even if it still is used but I thought the last tweet in the thread was interesting in light of what you said about Truman
Twitter thread is about Zionist Christians and Scofield
https://twitter.com/KeithWoodsYT/status/1719438865453179264
“If not for the Scofield Bible, US Presidents influenced by Christian Zionism might have been more willing to put their country’s interests above Israel, and more American Christians would take a critical look at a state where Christians currently face intense persecution.”

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 3:59 utc | 664

Y’all need to head over to Larry Johnson’s and look at the lead story.
People need to watch the videos he has posted on today’s article
before they are removed.
In addition to the horror inflicted on Gaza, there are some ugly brutish videos toward Hasidics and a disturbing recruiting tape aimed at Uraine Nazis to go to Israel to join the IDF.
I guess the helpless Palestinians make for an easier enemy that Russia
We Must Not Look Away
We MUST bear witness

Posted by: ld | Nov 2 2023 3:59 utc | 665

Y’all need to head over to Larry Johnson’s and look at the lead story.
People need to watch the videos he has posted on today’s article
before they are removed.
In addition to the horror inflicted on Gaza, there are some ugly brutish videos toward Hasidics and a disturbing recruiting tape aimed at Uraine Nazis to go to Israel to join the IDF.
I guess the helpless Palestinians make for an easier enemy that Russia
We Must Not Look Away
We MUST bear witness

Posted by: ld | Nov 2 2023 3:59 utc | 666

Such great counter-arguments and contra-facts you presented to Antonym, Arch.
Posted by: Sandy Freeman | Nov 2 2023 3:52 utc | 329
Antonym produced no facts.
Just easily debunked lies.
Google is sufficient here.
No “counter-facts” needed.
No facts exist to counter.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 4:02 utc | 667

Such great counter-arguments and contra-facts you presented to Antonym, Arch.
Posted by: Sandy Freeman | Nov 2 2023 3:52 utc | 329
Antonym produced no facts.
Just easily debunked lies.
Google is sufficient here.
No “counter-facts” needed.
No facts exist to counter.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 4:02 utc | 668

Denial is best suited for woke stupid whites.

Posted by: Hutch | Nov 2 2023 4:08 utc | 669

Denial is best suited for woke stupid whites.

Posted by: Hutch | Nov 2 2023 4:08 utc | 670

@ Sandy Freeman | Nov 2 2023 3:52 utc | 329 and others that has just been awarded a bevin
If you aren’t paid to throw sand into readers’ eyes and you do so out of malice, vanity or stupidity, not even the plea of economic necessity excuses your egregious behaviour.
Kindly leave the stage- to honest actors.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 2 2023 4:11 utc | 671

@ Sandy Freeman | Nov 2 2023 3:52 utc | 329 and others that has just been awarded a bevin
If you aren’t paid to throw sand into readers’ eyes and you do so out of malice, vanity or stupidity, not even the plea of economic necessity excuses your egregious behaviour.
Kindly leave the stage- to honest actors.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 2 2023 4:11 utc | 672

psychohistorian | Nov 2 2023 3:54 utc | 330
I have been feeling similar – that big change will come from this least of all speeding up formation of the multi-polar world

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 4:14 utc | 673

psychohistorian | Nov 2 2023 3:54 utc | 330
I have been feeling similar – that big change will come from this least of all speeding up formation of the multi-polar world

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 4:14 utc | 674

Acco Hengst | Nov 2 2023 3:10 utc | 317–
Thanks for your short, astute reply, which is where the problem lies–the Unilateral actions taken by the Outlaw US Empire both before and after WW2, which is a point discussed on the home front today. Such unilateral actions go back to the decision in 1787 to go well beyond the remit for the Philadelphia Convention to modify the Articles of Confederation and essentially perform a coup. We’ve discussed why the UN was organized the way it was so the Outlaw US Empire could continue to act unilaterally and with impunity–that ought to be very obvious by now.
Jane | Nov 2 2023 3:33 utc | 322–
Thanks for your reply and your participation. How to rid humanity of this cult in question would usually be a matter for police and social workers, but with the Zionists we have a cult akin to Hitler’s Nazis who were promoted by Western interests because they served purposes for those interests. Yes, the genuine similarity is stark but unseen to all those who don’t know the history of either cults. The reason I arrive at the policy of elimination I described is because of those similarities, but the situation’s worse because the current cult was given the BOMB by its promoters, a fact unknown to all too many. So, effectively, we have a Hitler armed with nuclear weapons thirsting for the blood and entrails of 2 million people for lebensraum. IMO, Medvedev sees it that way and perhaps Patrushev too. In fact, I think there’s consensus but it can’t become known–yet. I hope it’s revealed by this Sunday as this Friday is going to be volatile in many places.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 4:16 utc | 675

Acco Hengst | Nov 2 2023 3:10 utc | 317–
Thanks for your short, astute reply, which is where the problem lies–the Unilateral actions taken by the Outlaw US Empire both before and after WW2, which is a point discussed on the home front today. Such unilateral actions go back to the decision in 1787 to go well beyond the remit for the Philadelphia Convention to modify the Articles of Confederation and essentially perform a coup. We’ve discussed why the UN was organized the way it was so the Outlaw US Empire could continue to act unilaterally and with impunity–that ought to be very obvious by now.
Jane | Nov 2 2023 3:33 utc | 322–
Thanks for your reply and your participation. How to rid humanity of this cult in question would usually be a matter for police and social workers, but with the Zionists we have a cult akin to Hitler’s Nazis who were promoted by Western interests because they served purposes for those interests. Yes, the genuine similarity is stark but unseen to all those who don’t know the history of either cults. The reason I arrive at the policy of elimination I described is because of those similarities, but the situation’s worse because the current cult was given the BOMB by its promoters, a fact unknown to all too many. So, effectively, we have a Hitler armed with nuclear weapons thirsting for the blood and entrails of 2 million people for lebensraum. IMO, Medvedev sees it that way and perhaps Patrushev too. In fact, I think there’s consensus but it can’t become known–yet. I hope it’s revealed by this Sunday as this Friday is going to be volatile in many places.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 4:16 utc | 676

The sh*t is going to hit the fan if the IDF keeps going and no telling how far it will fly. An Iraqi group has announced that they will expell the US from Iraq. Sparks are starting to fly in all directions. The US, by supporting Israel in it’s ethnic cleansing operation, has lost its remaining sympathy in the region, and continuing to push ahead with this desperate folly is driving straight toward Armageddon.

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 2 2023 4:19 utc | 677

The sh*t is going to hit the fan if the IDF keeps going and no telling how far it will fly. An Iraqi group has announced that they will expell the US from Iraq. Sparks are starting to fly in all directions. The US, by supporting Israel in it’s ethnic cleansing operation, has lost its remaining sympathy in the region, and continuing to push ahead with this desperate folly is driving straight toward Armageddon.

Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 2 2023 4:19 utc | 678

Many will go their graves dreaming of a multipolar world including the china pm

Posted by: Hutch | Nov 2 2023 4:20 utc | 679

Many will go their graves dreaming of a multipolar world including the china pm

Posted by: Hutch | Nov 2 2023 4:20 utc | 680

@ Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 4:02 utc | 334
Here is a fact that anyone here can verify with their own eyes:
“Arch Bungle” is writing 24/7/365, so either
* a team of pro’s
* AI, just very artificial
* an obsessed freak

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 2 2023 4:24 utc | 681

@ Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 4:02 utc | 334
Here is a fact that anyone here can verify with their own eyes:
“Arch Bungle” is writing 24/7/365, so either
* a team of pro’s
* AI, just very artificial
* an obsessed freak

Posted by: Antonym | Nov 2 2023 4:24 utc | 682

The sh*t is going to hit the fan if the IDF keeps going and no telling how far it will fly.
Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 2 2023 4:19 utc | 339
I can’t help wondering: How many civilians can the IDF murder before they achieve anything worth calling a victory?
– 10 000 ?
– 50 000 ?
– 100 000 ?
– 200 000 ?
– 500 000 ?
– 800 000 ?
– 1000 000?
– 2m?
What happens when, let’s say 500 000 Palestinian Gazans lie dead in the ruins?
Hamas is still there, that’s for sure.
But does the World still stand paralyzed and watch?
No intervention in defence of “Humanitarian Values”?
No “R2P” from powerful states like Turkey, Egypt or Russia?
And, most importantly:
If the IDF butchers even a million Palestinians, what would it have achieved?
What are upper limits on what can be achieved in Gaza by brute force?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 4:27 utc | 683

The sh*t is going to hit the fan if the IDF keeps going and no telling how far it will fly.
Posted by: the pessimist | Nov 2 2023 4:19 utc | 339
I can’t help wondering: How many civilians can the IDF murder before they achieve anything worth calling a victory?
– 10 000 ?
– 50 000 ?
– 100 000 ?
– 200 000 ?
– 500 000 ?
– 800 000 ?
– 1000 000?
– 2m?
What happens when, let’s say 500 000 Palestinian Gazans lie dead in the ruins?
Hamas is still there, that’s for sure.
But does the World still stand paralyzed and watch?
No intervention in defence of “Humanitarian Values”?
No “R2P” from powerful states like Turkey, Egypt or Russia?
And, most importantly:
If the IDF butchers even a million Palestinians, what would it have achieved?
What are upper limits on what can be achieved in Gaza by brute force?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 4:27 utc | 684

* a team of pro’s
* AI, just very artificial
* an obsessed freak
Posted by: Antonym | Nov 2 2023 4:24 utc | 341
Well, thanks for the complements.
I didn’t think you had it in you.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 4:29 utc | 685

* a team of pro’s
* AI, just very artificial
* an obsessed freak
Posted by: Antonym | Nov 2 2023 4:24 utc | 341
Well, thanks for the complements.
I didn’t think you had it in you.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 2 2023 4:29 utc | 686

Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 3:59 utc | 332
“It seems this Scofield rewrote the bible bringing zionism into it. I don’t know how widley it is used in the US or even if it still is used”
The Scofield Reference Bible was an early 20th century milestone in the self-organizing of the Dispensationalists. Dispensationalism is an unbiblical doctrine first invented in the 19th century for the purpose of the Jewish hijacking of Christianity. To this day it’s the source of all Christian Zionism.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Nov 2 2023 4:31 utc | 687

Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 3:59 utc | 332
“It seems this Scofield rewrote the bible bringing zionism into it. I don’t know how widley it is used in the US or even if it still is used”
The Scofield Reference Bible was an early 20th century milestone in the self-organizing of the Dispensationalists. Dispensationalism is an unbiblical doctrine first invented in the 19th century for the purpose of the Jewish hijacking of Christianity. To this day it’s the source of all Christian Zionism.

Posted by: Flying Dutchman | Nov 2 2023 4:31 utc | 688

The Economist is one of the 16 Zionist-controlled Western ‘News’ outlets named in Elon Musk’s 2018 “Who owns the Press?” tweet.
It is thus not surprising that the fairy tale to which b has drawn attention has a glaring omission.
Prior to 2010 there were elections held in Jewish Occupied Palestine. I don’t recall the name of the winners, but I do recall that the Jews didn’t like it and promptly arrested and jailed them – thus preventing the emergence of a legitimtate, sovereign, Palestinian Parliament.
I was lurking at Xymphora at the time and this act of racist supremacism by “Israel” attracted a lot of negative comments. It’s an “interesting” event for the Economist to “forget” Imo.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 2 2023 4:32 utc | 689

The Economist is one of the 16 Zionist-controlled Western ‘News’ outlets named in Elon Musk’s 2018 “Who owns the Press?” tweet.
It is thus not surprising that the fairy tale to which b has drawn attention has a glaring omission.
Prior to 2010 there were elections held in Jewish Occupied Palestine. I don’t recall the name of the winners, but I do recall that the Jews didn’t like it and promptly arrested and jailed them – thus preventing the emergence of a legitimtate, sovereign, Palestinian Parliament.
I was lurking at Xymphora at the time and this act of racist supremacism by “Israel” attracted a lot of negative comments. It’s an “interesting” event for the Economist to “forget” Imo.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 2 2023 4:32 utc | 690

karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 4:16 utc | 338
As an extremist cult, no different to nazi’s or ISIS, they do need to be destroyed the same.That going through the UN stuff and seeing how the Palestinians where made into sub humans with no rights to their land, no rights to their country, and all done through the UN…. that really made me a bit sick. Perhaps seeing the Palestinians being bombed as subhumans by the Zionists with impunity and seeing how the UN was instrumental in creating that situation….

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 4:33 utc | 691

karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 4:16 utc | 338
As an extremist cult, no different to nazi’s or ISIS, they do need to be destroyed the same.That going through the UN stuff and seeing how the Palestinians where made into sub humans with no rights to their land, no rights to their country, and all done through the UN…. that really made me a bit sick. Perhaps seeing the Palestinians being bombed as subhumans by the Zionists with impunity and seeing how the UN was instrumental in creating that situation….

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 4:33 utc | 692

psychohistorian | Nov 2 2023 4:11 utc | 336–
Hey buddy, it’s late here, but I’m glad I caught your comment. There’s something brewing but it’s hard to discern. There was a very big confab today, Arab League with Russia in Moscow that I posted the PR about. However, IMO much more was said than published. We all sense something but can’t put our finger on it. Russian diplomacy’s been extensively active. It’s possible an OPEC+ decision will come soon that will also include gas exporters. Leverage must be applied and energy’s the tool. Oil futures are jittery at @$90/bbl. It wouldn’t take much to nudge it to $120-140, but that’s not currently reflected. Gas here just dropped below $3/gal, while it was well over $5/gal in California before I left. I’ll be back on the 12th.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 4:35 utc | 693

psychohistorian | Nov 2 2023 4:11 utc | 336–
Hey buddy, it’s late here, but I’m glad I caught your comment. There’s something brewing but it’s hard to discern. There was a very big confab today, Arab League with Russia in Moscow that I posted the PR about. However, IMO much more was said than published. We all sense something but can’t put our finger on it. Russian diplomacy’s been extensively active. It’s possible an OPEC+ decision will come soon that will also include gas exporters. Leverage must be applied and energy’s the tool. Oil futures are jittery at @$90/bbl. It wouldn’t take much to nudge it to $120-140, but that’s not currently reflected. Gas here just dropped below $3/gal, while it was well over $5/gal in California before I left. I’ll be back on the 12th.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 4:35 utc | 694

Flying Dutchman | Nov 2 2023 4:31 utc | 344
Thanks

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 4:36 utc | 695

Flying Dutchman | Nov 2 2023 4:31 utc | 344
Thanks

Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 2 2023 4:36 utc | 696

Hutch | Nov 2 2023 4:20 utc | 340–
You’re late to the party. The Multipolar World already exists.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 4:37 utc | 697

Hutch | Nov 2 2023 4:20 utc | 340–
You’re late to the party. The Multipolar World already exists.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 2 2023 4:37 utc | 698

Read somewhere that at least one neocon faction would prefer to see Netanyahoo gone (had to do with making oil deals with Iran, don’t know if this is plausible).
Could it be that the CIA has provocateurs planted within Hamas, and also inside connections to Israeli military/intel agencies? Such that they could encourage Israel to look the wrong way just as its Hamas actors initiate the ultimate new-9/11 attack? Thus forcing Netanyahoo to start a very profitable all-out war in Gaza while still offering the chance to push him off the pedestal after things cool?
Maybe too an idea crazy. But I just can’t believe Israeli intel didn’t know such an attack was a risk.

Posted by: Dave | Nov 2 2023 4:41 utc | 699

Read somewhere that at least one neocon faction would prefer to see Netanyahoo gone (had to do with making oil deals with Iran, don’t know if this is plausible).
Could it be that the CIA has provocateurs planted within Hamas, and also inside connections to Israeli military/intel agencies? Such that they could encourage Israel to look the wrong way just as its Hamas actors initiate the ultimate new-9/11 attack? Thus forcing Netanyahoo to start a very profitable all-out war in Gaza while still offering the chance to push him off the pedestal after things cool?
Maybe too an idea crazy. But I just can’t believe Israeli intel didn’t know such an attack was a risk.

Posted by: Dave | Nov 2 2023 4:41 utc | 700