Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 28, 2023

Palestine Open Thread 2023-287

Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on November 28, 2023 at 14:08 UTC | Permalink

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Elijah J. Magnier 🇪🇺 @ejmalrai

I have a serious feeling that the military war on #Gaza is over. #Israel is now conducting a humanitarian siege and won't withdraw from the north except as part of a package deal.

Posted by: b | Nov 28 2023 14:13 utc | 1

“You might think a Presidential visit, presidential speech, three Secretary of State visits, two Secretary of Defence visits, the dispatching of two aircraft carrier groups, a nuclear submarine and Marine expeditionary unit, and the pledge of $14.3 billion in emergency military aid, are testament to the unwavering support the U.S. is extending to Israel” …

“Think again”.

“Underneath the full and robust backing of the Biden administration, there are dangerous and treacherous currents that are chipping away and encroaching on public sympathy for Israel across the United States. Polls released last week contained the most alarming and telling data: Public support for Israel is cratering – particularly amongst the 18 – 34 age group. Another poll shows that 36% of Americans say they oppose additional funding for Ukraine and Israel: Support for funding Israel, only – was at 14%”.

Alistair Crooke
https://www.unz.com/article/the-magicians-hat-and-the-great-simulacrum-of-palliative-balm/

Posted by: ld | Nov 28 2023 14:18 utc | 2

Re: Posted by: ld | Nov 28 2023 14:18 utc | 2

Alistair Cooke is living in a fantasy world if he believes that falling public support in the US will in any way diminish US military, diplomatic and economic support for Israel. History tends to show the opposite, and the US government needs to double down and lock in support for failing projects. I'd expect a 10-year, $100 billion gift commitment is in the works.

Posted by: Bob | Nov 28 2023 14:22 utc | 3

A day without fighting is a good day. If this could become normal and the use of diplomacy as the go to way of solving human differences, maybe we have a chance. I for one am an optimist.

Posted by: Rossny | Nov 28 2023 14:23 utc | 4

"humanitarian siege".

Even Orwell would not push language that far I believe.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 28 2023 14:23 utc | 5

No matter the status of Hamas the Zionists will NOT stop
their war on the Palestinian people.

Hamas as a target is a smoke screen for Zionist ambition.
The true target of the Zionists is the Palestinian people
and their land and thirdly the rich gas fields offshore
from Gaza.

Look at a map of Palestine from 1947 till now and you will see
their goal and priorities which existing long before Hamas
was ever founded.
In 2019 Netanyahu voiced the priorities loud and clear.
"If you do not want a Palestinian state then you will support
me in my funding of Hamas."

Posted by: librul | Nov 28 2023 14:32 utc | 6

Posted by: b | Nov 28 2023 14:13 utc | 1

Yep. I think the wheels are coming off the chariot.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 28 2023 14:34 utc | 7

Bob @3
I am sure that is why Empire is scrambling to criminalize speech protests comments symbols and wipe history from the books.....
because public opinion doesn't matter.

but you are right zionists besotted with bloodlust cannot be reasoned with nor affected by public opinion anymore than a dog with rabies.
They are too crazed and stupid to know that critical mass knowledge of the carnage has been their undoing.

Posted by: ld | Nov 28 2023 14:38 utc | 8

Elon Musk chatting with Israeli president

🇺🇸🏴‍☠️🇮🇱 'No Choice But To Kill Those Who Murder Civilians,' Says Elon Musk
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/89974

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 28 2023 14:44 utc | 9

https://www.timesofisrael.com/keep-waving-daily-hamas-propaganda-clips-show-freed-hostages-forced-goodbyes/

"Keep waving!"

(.. Or who knows what happens to you and the other hostages who are still prisoner)

Posted by: Augusto Pi | Nov 28 2023 14:47 utc | 10

Posted by: b | Nov 28 2023 14:13 utc | 1

Unfortunately this is cold comfort, given the dire straits the strip is in right now.

For the Gazan population to merely survive under these conditions there needs to be a massive and sudden and prolonged relief effort into the strip.

Isreal's control of the coast, electrical supply, fuel supply,materials going into the strip needs to be completely removed or else he strip, already a concentration camp before the war, will now become a literal death-camp.

My prediction is that under these conditions of even stricter siege Hamas will be forced to strike out again, if for no other reason than to remind the world of the desperate conditions prevailing in the strip.

We will see another outbreak soon ... I hope I am wrong.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 14:51 utc | 11

Norwegian 5

Humanitarian seige, as opposed to a military seige. Israel's legitimacy in the eyes of the world has collapsed because the world now knows they killed their own people.

Join up the dots and find out they killed their own people in the Holocaust and Jew Zelensky killed half a million Ukrainians pointlessly fighting Russia over Nato nukes.

Join up the dots of that fact and it looks as though Netanyahu killed 20,000 Palestinians to save his own political skin in the name of USUKIS Greater Israel.
He with the biggest gob gets the guillotine.

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 28 2023 14:56 utc | 12

(.. Or who knows what happens to you and the other hostages who are still prisoner)

Posted by: Augusto Pi | Nov 28 2023 14:47 utc | 10

This is what the zionists tell themselves to get to sleep at night:

"She doesn't really love him ... she loves me ... He was forcing her to smile ... she wasn't smiling, it was a grimace of fear. The letter she wrote him wasn't really a love letter ... she didn't know any better ... how could she after all? He was wearing a mask all along!"

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 14:58 utc | 13

I am deeply disappointed by Russia's position on resolving the Palestine issue.

Russia supports the 1967 delineation which favors Israel and establishes an unviable "state" of Palestine, as is plain to see by looking at the map (s), and going back to Palestine before the planting of a Zionist state.

Russia's position does not stand for a fair and just solution, even though it claims it does.
It is not a principled position, not a bold position, not a visionary position, not a position for a better, peaceful future for Palestine and for all of us.

Russia, with such a position, is not a genuine supporter of the rights of the Palestinians that have been denied to them for decades.

The true leaders of Palestine, whoever they may be, need better supporters of their cause than Russia to rely on, in my view.

Here is Putin's message as just reported by TASS:

"Now that the blood-shedding conflict causes untold suffering to the people of Palestine, I find it especially important to reaffirm Russia’s consistent support to the implementation of the legitimate rights of your people to establish a sovereign state on 1967 borders," Putin said in his message on the occasion of International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People.

https://tass.com/politics/1713013

Posted by: JB | Nov 28 2023 15:06 utc | 14

'No Choice But To Kill Those Who Murder Civilians,' Says Elon Musk
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 28 2023 14:44 utc | 9

Norwegian, is Elon talking about Benny “the butcher/comb over?”
He fits the bill.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 28 2023 15:11 utc | 15

Posted by: b | Nov 28 2023 14:13 utc | 1

As others have pointed out earlier, the Sinai peninsula is a logical place in which to exile the Gaza Palestinians. Egypt, for its own good reasons, opposes that. But Israel's plan may be to create a sufficiently terrible humanitarian crisis in southern Gaza so that Egypt's resistance will melt in favor of saving the lives of Palestinians. In other words, Israel may attempt to put the humanitarian onus onto Egypt by killing the Palestinians in Gaza indirectly with hunger, thirst, and exposure. Rather than directly shooting and bombing them.

Posted by: Clever Dog | Nov 28 2023 15:14 utc | 16

monies for the 'new settlements' in Gaza are being allocated as we speak and Bibi has no intention of anything remotely 'humanitarian'

from Mondoweis:

Israel is expected to carry on its airstrikes and ground incursion once the truce ends. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed on Sunday evening to continue the war until achieving the three goals of releasing all captives, destroying Hamas, and ensuring Gaza does not impose a “threat” to Israel.

On Sunday evening, 39 Palestinians were released from Israeli jails, all of them under the age of 18 years old. Twenty-one were from occupied Jerusalem, and the rest from Ramallah, Bethlehem, Jericho, Nablus, Jenin

On Sunday, Israel announced that it has “seized” a total sum of $1.3 million from “Hamas homes” in Gaza and deposited it in the state coffers. Palestinians described the action as theft and shared stories of Israeli soldiers seizing musical instruments and jewelry and showing them off on social media.

Israeli far-right Finance Minister dedicates millions of dollars to expanding settlements and arming settlers

https://mondoweiss.net/2023/11/operation-al-aqsa-flood-day-52-palestinians-in-gaza-brace-for-resumption-of-israeli-attacks-as-truce-reaches-final-day/

Posted by: ld | Nov 28 2023 15:23 utc | 17

The problem I have with the phrase "Humanitarian Siege" is that it is contradictory and therefore means whatever the person who coined it wants it to mean.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 28 2023 15:38 utc | 18

So that we do not lose hope, who are your top ten living heroes who give you hope?

Posted by: william paul | Nov 28 2023 12:10 utc | 247 (previous thread)

1. Vladimir Putin
2. Evo Morales
3. Victor Orban
4. Sahra Wagenknecht
5. Max Blumenthal
6. John Pilger
7. Julien Assange
8. Tucker Carlson
9. Tulsi Gabbard
10. Bashar al Assad

Of course, the selection is heavily weighted towards journalists and politicians - consisting mainly of people inspiring hopes for the future.

Posted by: grunzt | Nov 28 2023 15:41 utc | 19

Posted by: b | Nov 28 2023 14:13 utc | 1

#################

I don't claim any expertise on this topic. I will offer that the Turkish flotilla is still on the move, and as far as I know, Hezbollah and the Houthis are still engaged.

The Israelis don't get to decide when this is over.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 28 2023 15:42 utc | 20

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 28 2023 14:44 utc | 9

I imagine some of the shareholders on the boards of American companies that funded the NAZIs may have said the same of the Jews leading up to Krystalnacht ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 15:45 utc | 21

@Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 28 2023 15:38 utc | 18

The problem I have with the phrase "Humanitarian Siege" is that it is contradictory and therefore means whatever the person who coined it wants it to mean.

It reminds me of a Lennon quote ("Working Class Hero"):

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill

I think they managed to learn it.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 28 2023 15:48 utc | 22

Humanitarian seige, as opposed to a military seige. Israel's legitimacy in the eyes of the world has collapsed because the world now knows they killed their own people.

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 28 2023 14:56 utc | 12

###############

I hope that everyone who cares about the issue from the Palestinian perspective is introducing the term "Hannibal Directive" into the public discourse.

That's a well-documented phrase that undermines any legitimacy of the "Israelis as victims" narrative.

Well, they are victims of their own government, which will kill its own citizens for ideological purposes.

Tag #hannibaldirective in comments on social media. Bring it up in conversations with people. It's Israeli policy, not some fiction or slander. Just like the right of return being based on race is policy. Force people to "own" their toxic garbage. That is much more isolating than not buying Starbucks coffee.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 28 2023 15:51 utc | 23

Destroying words and concepts in order to control and deceive.


The problem I have with the phrase "Humanitarian Siege" is that it is contradictory and therefore means whatever the person who coined it wants it to mean.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 28 2023 15:38 utc | 18


Posted by: Forest | Nov 28 2023 15:54 utc | 24

'No Choice But To Kill Those Who Murder Civilians,' Says Elon Musk
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 28 2023 14:44 utc | 9

Norwegian, is Elon talking about Benny “the butcher/comb over?”
He fits the bill.

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 28 2023 15:11 utc | 15

Certainly, it is true that sentence can be taken in more than one way.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 28 2023 15:57 utc | 25

@Bemildred | Nov 28 2023 15:57 utc | 25

Certainly, it is true that sentence can be taken in more than one way.
Yes, but the way it is communicated resolves the ambiguity:

https://www.dailyfetched.com/elon-musk-no-choice-but-to-kill-terrorists-who-insist-on-murdering-civilians/

SpaceX CEO Elon Musk told Israel’s ceremonial president, Isaac Herzog, that there was no choice but to “kill those who insist on murdering civilians.”

Musk also said Palestinian children must be educated not to hate and to bring prosperity to Gaza.

Musk was visiting the devastated community of Kfar Aza, in which 100 Israeli civilians, the town in which 100 Israeli civilians were murdered during the Hamas attack on October 7.

====

So the bottom line is
- Kill them
- Teach them not to hate

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 28 2023 16:10 utc | 26

the phrase "in my view' is the same as saying ignore everything say.

Posted by: michael crump | Nov 28 2023 16:10 utc | 27

Posted by: Bob | Nov 28 2023 14:22 utc | 3

'Alistair Crooke is living in a fantasy world if he believes that falling public support in the US will in any way diminish US military, diplomatic and economic support for Israel. History tends to show the opposite, and the US government needs to double down and lock in support for failing projects. I'd expect a 10-year, $100 billion gift commitment is in the works.'

-------

Alistair Crooke has deep experience in Middle East affairs. He is highly regarded around the world. His 'fantasy world' as you call it, is full of truth.

And if you will forgive me for being forward Bob, who are you, that we should toss out what Alastair presents in his anaysis and listen to your 'wise' opinion? Do you have decades of experience in Middle East diplomacy as Alastair does?

Posted by: Áobh O'Sheachnasaigh | Nov 28 2023 16:17 utc | 28

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 28 2023 16:10 utc | 26

I am not a fan of Musk. Not even a little bit.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 28 2023 16:19 utc | 29

Not sure how much this is misdirection or a limited hangout revelation, but might be simply the truth and of interest to some here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/28/israeli-military-had-warning-of-hamas-training-for-attack-reports-say

Posted by: Ludo | Nov 28 2023 16:20 utc | 30

"So the bottom line is
- Kill them
- Teach them not to hate"

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 28 2023 16:10 utc | 26

Not in that order, I assume.

Posted by: jr | Nov 28 2023 16:22 utc | 31

As others have pointed out earlier, the Sinai peninsula is a logical place in which to exile the Gaza Palestinians.

Posted by: Clever Dog | Nov 28 2023 15:14 utc | 16

Who other than the Satanists thinks it's a logical idea to dump 2.2 million people into the desert....and then??

Posted by: pq | Nov 28 2023 16:25 utc | 32

Sepp Holzer (trail-blazing permaculturalist - https://permies.com/w/holzer-vids who has demonstrated the remarkable vigor and resilience of the natural world free from mechanical-unnatural tinkering)

Sebastião Salgado (the photographer who traveled the entire world to show still unspoiled Nature documented visually in his book 'Genesis' and who shows the inherent beauty and grandeur of this collective dream world we all share, which some call 'reality')

Mingyur Rinpoche (who wrote 'In Love with the World' an account of his walking away from a successful career as a meditation master to wander the wilds of the lower Himalayas alone for almost five years, i.e. is the 'real deal' in traditional meditation circles).

Putin (for re-introducing and embodying the inclusion of both humanistic vision and timeless principles into the geopolitical arena)

Akira Kurosawa (recently deceased, for reviving the spirit of an ancient, sophisticated civilizational awareness weaving Shinto kami-spirits into the modern medium of film)

Arvo Part (whose music unequivocally manifests the immanent reality of Heaven on Earth)

Viktor Orban (for being true to his word and his people)

Natalia Lafourcade (don't know her but she lives nearby and created a beautiful song that gets me every time - whilst reminding me of the indomitable Edith Piaf) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZIgdr0a07o

Palestinians (for enduring cruel injustice imposed by others from above for far too long and refusing to give in)

Posted by: Scorpion | Nov 28 2023 16:26 utc | 33

Oops, the above was in response to:

Posted by: grunzt | Nov 28 2023 15:41 utc | 19

Posted by: Scorpion | Nov 28 2023 16:27 utc | 34

@jr | Nov 28 2023 16:22 utc | 31

Not in that order, I assume.

I think the message is
- Kill the parents
- Educate the children not to hate

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 28 2023 16:31 utc | 35

M7sk provided much needed propaganda. He also pledged to fund rebuilding . Talked up demilitarised zone . Toured the destroyed kibbutz with Benny the butcher probably ignoring the tank fire reality that destroyed it and ignoring the idf killed most the civilians there. Musk neural chip might help "educate " better zombies for social cohesion in the future
He certainly didn't block the official idf x pages that promoted a fake hamas.com page the idf promoted.

Posted by: Hankster | Nov 28 2023 16:42 utc | 36

The Hairshirt Crusader rests assured.
No Israeli wants unnecessary civilians to be killed. But Hamas needs to be eliminated.

Posted by: sln2002 | Nov 28 2023 16:48 utc | 37

And if you will forgive me for being forward Bob, who are you, that we should toss out what Alastair presents in his anaysis and listen to your 'wise' opinion? Do you have decades of experience in Middle East diplomacy as Alastair does?

Posted by: Áobh O'Sheachnasaigh | Nov 28 2023 16:17 utc | 28

If the american élite really, really wants to fight a war and is willing to clise ranks to do so it can probably afford to give public opinion the middle finger at least until it has to committ the US Army proper and the National Guard. Theoretically the USAF/USN might mutiny, ammunition plants workers go on strike and the bureaucracy ignore orders/resign en masse but that would be ask8ng too much fyom a western polity.

Posted by: Satepestage | Nov 28 2023 16:52 utc | 38

Very revealing Elon Musk's out and out support for Israel and the continued slaughter in Gaza. Why? One would think someone with his 'power' would say and do the right thing. E.g PEACE. There has to be something going on, or he has had a little talking to by Mossad.

Posted by: whitebeach | Nov 28 2023 16:54 utc | 39

Posted by: ld | Nov 28 2023 14:18 utc | 2

Alastair Crooke writes a very educational essay. I had to resort to Merriam-Webster at least 4 times to figure out what he meant. Nevertheless good stuff on so many levels.

On the subject Elon Musk and his recent comments about war, I think it's important to keep something in mind - when it comes to war, everyone on this website knows more about it than he does.

Posted by: Johnny Dollar | Nov 28 2023 17:00 utc | 40

"... Do you have decades of experience in Middle East diplomacy as Alastair does?"
Áobh O'Sheachnasaigh @28

For "Alastair" substitute "Tony" (as in Blinken) and you will see the error in your criticism. Mr Crooke's opinions are, generally, borne out by events. The qualification that separates him fromothers is not his resume but his honesty and principled commitment to decency.
The UN is full of experienced diplomats who, in the old mot, "lie abroad for their country." If Crooke were a better liar or a greedier careerist he would be among them.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 28 2023 17:01 utc | 41

i never would expect Musk to say and do the right thing.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 28 2023 17:03 utc | 42

"Who other than the Satanists thinks it's a logical idea to dump 2.2 million people into the desert....and then??"
--
Then, the Palestinians, with their own industriousness, the money from 20 Arab states, and the technology available today, will make of that place a garden just as the Israelis have made a garden of their own territory.

The problem here, however, is that nobody gives a straw for the Palestinians, who are a bunch of extremely toxic people grown to kill and hate since little children.

Plus, the other Arab Countries (and some non Arab ones, like Iran) find it very convenient that the Palestinians remain as a pain in Israel's side. If they had one tenth of the solidarity they claim to have, the Palestinians would have been living in peace (provided they want to; which they don't) for a long time.

And by the way: Jordan was, last time I looked, led by a Hashemite warrior tribe, not very numerous, put in power by the Brits, in a Country that was - last time I looked - majority Palestinian. Granted, I stopped looking at them in the Eighties, but it seems to me the same people ar ein power today that were in power then.

It is quite remarkable that nobody among the antisemitic crowd ever mentions the fact.

Finally, let us talk about the delusion of Mr Crooke.

Crooke has an obvious anti-Israeli bias. He is, like so many others, taking refuge in these fantasies of the Israeli PR debacle, & Co, & Co.

I am 57, and I was hearing exactly the same crap (and I mean *exactly the same*) when I was 16. More than forty years later, Israel as as strong as ever.

Mercouris, Crooke, and that convicted guy with the big mouth can cry "PR catastrophe" as much as they want. Israel does not care, nor should they.


Posted by: Augusto Pi | Nov 28 2023 17:09 utc | 43

re b | Nov 28 2023 14:13 utc | 1

as far as the 'humanitarian siege' is concerned, the zionist regime can go f*ck themselves. Hamas will outwit them all.....
much like the Taliban outwitted & outlasted the USA in Afghanistan; like the Syrian people and gov't outwitted the US-sponsored jihadists; like General Giap and the vietnamese outwitted the USA in Vietnam; and the Sandinistas in Nicaragua; and all the anti=apartheid anti-colonial forces in Southern Africa outwitted the Portuguese and the apartheid regimes in Rhodesia and South Africa..... the post-WWII list is long.
This is the movement of history in our day, our time. And it won't be stopped by any zionist a**holes who now happen to rule and run the colonial apartheid state of israel

the US-centralized Empire is certainly one of the most vicious in human history, but it's also one of the absolutely dumbest. Its pride and arrogance makes it incredibly stupid, unobservant and unable to learn from its mistakes


fyi

Seyed Mohammad Marandi @s_m_marandi
‏‏Professor of English Literature and Orientalism, University of Tehran

https://twitter.com/s_m_marandi/status/1729428352149119449

Palestinians understand their racist overlords much better than how Israeli colonizers understand subjugated native Palestinians. As a racist idiology, Zionism prevents Israelis and US elites from respecting the intellectually superior Resistance.

That's their Achilles heel.

Posted by: michaelj72 | Nov 28 2023 17:25 utc | 44

So much winning. What to do with our masters?
The blame game has already started. We could win, if we are not deterred from killing them all.

https://www.jns.org/biden-is-the-primary-obstacle-to-israeli-victory/

Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 28 2023 17:31 utc | 45

Palestinians understand their racist overlords much better than how Israeli colonizers understand subjugated native Palestinians. As a racist idiology, Zionism prevents Israelis and US elites from respecting the intellectually superior Resistance.

That's their Achilles heel.

Posted by: michaelj72 | Nov 28 2023 17:25 utc | 44

Exactly the same applies to how Slavs/Russia is viewed by Western brain dead lazy elites.

https://www.politico.eu/article/german-defense-minister-ursula-von-der-leyento-keep-her-doctorate-dissertation-plagiarism-allegations/

Intellectual ZEROS

Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 28 2023 17:33 utc | 46

Re: Elon Musk

Some weeks ago, he initiated a defamation lawsuit against the ADL. Ever since, Elon has been attacked and defamed by the entire media apparatus.

BTW - I always thought Elon was a secularJew.

Posted by: Exile | Nov 28 2023 17:33 utc | 47

A thought:

Technically, Hamas has defeated the IDF in every single encounter since the day the IDF fled from the strip.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 17:33 utc | 48

BTW - I always thought Elon was a secularJew.

Posted by: Exile | Nov 28 2023 17:33 utc | 47

So says Miles Mathis (Jewish)

http://mileswmathis.com/musk.pdf

Posted by: Tom_12 | Nov 28 2023 17:34 utc | 49

Despite the bluster of Netanyahu and Israel’s defence minister, it is difficult to imagine they could re-start a military operation on the scale of the initial weeks-long attack. World public opinion is such that Israel and its sponsors would be so reputationally damaged and isolated that there would be no recovery in the near-to-mid-term at least.

Israel aside, damage control on the humanitarian front is well underway. The Washington Post published an article on this topic two days ago - “White House faces internal divisions on Israel-Gaza” - which featured the usual collection of unidentified officials discussing leverage and hard choices etc (without ever mentioning the dozens of U.S. cargo planes loaded with bombs landing in Tel Aviv). These types of articles don’t appear when operations are going well. Also, the support-Israel-at-all-costs people are being shuffled aside in favour of more conciliatory and lightly-scolding “moderate” voices. It is largely public relations and fence-mending.

CIA Burns is huddling down today with Qatar and Egyptian officials to map the next phase, while western aid trucks are presented to the world as the ultimate expression of good will. Blinken is scheduled to arrive in another day or two, and his itinerary includes attendance at a climate conference in Doha at week’s end - there is no way that will happen with a background of carpet-bombing in Gaza. The plan seems to be to ride out the negative publicity, and maintain the progress on the “normalization” initiatives, as this lauditory Associated Press article on Qatar hints:

“…several Qatari mediators stayed behind to work with Israeli intelligence officials on extending the four-day truce…With its close ties to the United States — it hosts the largest American military base between Europe and Japan — its communication with Israel since 1995 and its support of blockaded Gaza to the tune of what estimates suggest is more than $1 billion since 2014, Qatar is uniquely positioned to break deadlocks…“We need Qatar,” Guzansky said of Israel, noting that other Arab countries increasingly have interests in Israel and are normalizing their relations. https://apnews.com/article/qatar-palestinians-israel-negotiation-hostages-6a11f09dd0968de8eb232260d7aca90d

Posted by: jayc | Nov 28 2023 17:38 utc | 50

I am deeply disappointed by Russia's position on resolving the Palestine issue.

Posted by: JB | Nov 28 2023 15:06 utc | 14

Clausewitz said that war is an extension of diplomacy by other means. The Russians understand that diplomacy is an extension of war by other means. Every time Putin makes a policy statement, western 'sympathizers' are 'disappointed. But Putin is systematically destroying US hegemony. How disappointing is that?

Russia and China have consistently offered reasonable alternatives to violence, knowing full well that the west would reject them. The point of these operations is to awaken the sleepers to the true nature of the enemy. This is working very well. Russia and China are now a combined center of gravity to global resistance to US hegemony, and it is the US and its satrapies that are increasingly isolated and getting weaker day by day.

Neither Putin nor Xi is any position to dictate a solution to the Zionist entity. Unlike western blowhards, they know this. What they are doing is shaping the battlefield of the coming regional war that will end Israel as a zionist state. When that goes down, they will both support the right of self-determination of the victors.

Posted by: Honzo | Nov 28 2023 17:42 utc | 51

In response to ld | Nov 28 2023 14:18 utc | 2

With regard to the Alastair Crooke article wherein he asks:

"...Israel is bitterly divided on the vision for its future; what it is exactly that constitutes ‘Israel’ and even that very post-modern question, ‘what it is to be Jewish’."

It is a historical as well as a religious question, and the religious answer is that to be a Jew - or to embrace Judaism - is to make oneself part of the system that rejected and continues to reject Christ, and which was complicit in the crucifixion of the Son of God:

"Caiphas, in the morning, called a full council of the Sanhedrin. They again put the question to Jesus, and commanded him to tell them if he were the Christ, and Son of God? He owned he was. (Luke xxii. 70.) --- Upon this they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate,... To make him die a more infamous death on the cross; otherwise they might perhaps have stoned him to death, as they afterwards did St. Stephen. "

Posted by: hispanidad | Nov 28 2023 17:43 utc | 52

Thank you to b. for being on the right side of the history, thank you to all the good posters, and especially to @pq, @abierno, @debsisdead, @karloff and many more... @Gyanne as well, and especially to one poster few threads ago, think it was @john.Can not find it again, but remember his post and cried over it like a child.

He wrote about the group of the Palestinians who descended upon the beach, much before the 'ceasefire'. The sunset it was and children were frolicking in the serene sea, the families let the sea envelop and hug them, helping with the trauma...

I know how it feels when the calm sea embraces you...

I think that the religion has nothing to do with the latest disaster and tragedy inflicted by the hegemon and its proxy bloody Israel. It could be as well budhists inhabiting the land, the behavior would be the same.

Always the same old same old MO inflicted upon the victims, weaponize the religion, the ethnicity, any sort of possible divisions
just to provoke a profitable war for the thieving criminal entities.
I should know, as was born in Yugoslavia where the civil war was a result of the decades long hostile activity by mostly USA and Germany, lots can be found with Engdahl, Parenti etc...

Anyway, went to Middle East quite young as adventurer, in my late 20ties. Yugoslavia gave me the scholarship, and blessed my staying when I let them know I want to stay...
I was well prepared, as during my studies ( free for all), we students were in touch with all kind of cultures, as there were students from all over the 'unalined' world ( from Africa, Asia etc...) studying in our universities. We mingled with the world.

had access to different civilizations, their cultures.

@ Minaa who was surprised that I quoted the socialist Iraqi poet Badr Shaker El Sayyab, as he is unknown in the west...

The west is very very poor and culturally isolated, dear Minaa, Yugoslavia introduced me to Badr from Irak when I was 20 years old, in one of the many many toms of prolific translations from all over the world. We had to read Tolstoy, Dostojevsky, modern South Americans in the secondary school...

Anyway, for you all, especially for Minaa and John:Badr Shaker

And even when I smelt your body of stone in my fire
And wrest the ice from your hands, between our eyes
Persist whole wastes of snow that devour the night-traveller
As if you saw me through mist and moonlight
As if we had never met in hope and longing
Hope for love is a meeting ... where then did we meet?
Your naked body is torn open
Your breasts, beneath the roof of night, are torn by my nails
My ardor has torn apart all but the veils
Which hide within you what I desire
As if the blood I drink from you were salt
Whole draughts of it still not my thirst
Where is your passion?
Where your unbared heart ?
I bolt on you the gate of night, then embrace the gate
Conceal within it my shadow, memories and secret
Then search for you within my fire
And find you noy, find not your ashes in the burning flame
I will cast my self into the flame, If it burns or not
Kill me, that I may fell you
Kill the stone
With a shedding of blood, with a spark of fire
... or burn then without fire

Badr Shakir al-Sayyab


And I say, choked by horror, this will be the end of Israel, and introduction to the end of all the monsters in EU who watch placidly and find the excuses. The ugliness is so much, sickening, they will pay.

Posted by: stranger | Nov 28 2023 17:47 utc | 53

Stranger,

Beautiful passage.

SFSN

Posted by: Exile | Nov 28 2023 17:53 utc | 54

“…several Qatari mediators stayed behind to work with Israeli intelligence officials on extending the four-day truce…With its close ties to the United States — it hosts the largest American military base between Europe and Japan — its communication with Israel since 1995 and its support of blockaded Gaza to the tune of what estimates suggest is more than $1 billion since 2014, Qatar is uniquely positioned to break deadlocks…“We need Qatar,” Guzansky said of Israel, noting that other Arab countries increasingly have interests in Israel and are normalizing their relations.

https://apnews.com/article/qatar-palestinians-israel-negotiation-hostages-6a11f09dd0968de8eb232260d7aca90d

Posted by: jayc | Nov 28 2023 17:38 utc | 50

Yes, there is a lot of scurrying around in the bushes going on, a lot of hedging of formerly intransigent positions. Uncle Sugar is freaked out about the consequences of "horizontal escalation" of the Gaza war, with good reason, and the IDF has not given a good account of itself, top to bottom in the war itself. Like Uncle Sugar it is mainly still capable of bombing, and that is not working as planned either, no shock and awe. Mostly no awe. Lots of inconvenient facts coming out too. The mighty wurlitzer is spun up to nine trying to fend off anybody saying nice things about Hamas.

Meanwhile the Ukrainian military is crumpling up under Russian assault.

Right now the Israeli war in the north is on hold.

Biden is unelectable.

So many chickens coming home to roost.

I will be surprised if Israel is allowed to start things up again.

Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 28 2023 17:54 utc | 55

To the discussion about Elon's allegiance

Musk has one foot firmly in the global private finance camp. Given some of his dealings in China, I thought he was someone that thought they could survive in a merit based win-win world that the China/Russia axis is moving toward. I think he was pressured to show support for Occupied Palestine and we will see what his actions reflect.

I have to believe that there are oligarchs in the West that see the future is going to be more socialism than barbarism and are ok with that, if not outright supportive. At the same time they live in the same global private finance controlled world as the rest of us and are constrained in their options......invest in China/Russia axis, if they can.

Does humanity need to witness more genocide/barbarism in Gaza/Occupied Palestine to take that first step towards real socialism by eliminating the God Of Mammon cult and their control of finance in the Western form of social organization?

I don't!

Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 28 2023 17:54 utc | 56

hispanidad | Nov 28 2023 17:43 utc | 52

The religios aspect of this 75 year old war crime conducted by a regime hiding behind Judaism concerns me not in the least.

The religious smoke screen just clutters up the facts on the ground.

Genocide and land theft endlessly supported by a nuclear power and the zionist world of finance against the rightful inhabitants.

Any navigation away from this topic is misdirection

Posted by: ld | Nov 28 2023 17:55 utc | 57

I thought Unz had a sobering take:

https://www.unz.com/trall/israels-objective-in-the-gaza-war-kill-the-buildings/

Posted by: Observer | Nov 28 2023 18:02 utc | 58

re jayc | Nov 28 2023 17:38 utc | 50

good post. thanks. I would only quibble about this part:

"....World public opinion is such that Israel and its sponsors would be so reputationally damaged and isolated that there would be no recovery in the near-to-mid-term at least."


"would be", well, it already has been. I think we have long passed that point. israel's 'image' is trash, in the dust bin.
of course there is going to be much ado by the mainstream media to plaster over the fissures and restore the Manufactured Consent in the US and Europe for whatever israel wants to do. You notice that none of the Christian churches in the western world and practically none of the Western political/media Elites have raised any serious and sustained objections over israel's tactics and end-game

please note the hundreds of thousands if not millions of people throughout the world who have protested the war already

Sarah has it right:
Independent Lebanese geopolitical commentator.
https://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/1728859692691276173

"From Yemen to Morocco, Jordan to Indonesia, Scotland to Ireland, France to Spain, London to Portugal, Cuba to Australia, Canada to the U.S., and beyond, the people of the world are rising up everyday in MASSIVE numbers to denounce Israel’s genocide in Palestine."


and something else, another gem of a quote:
"We can never let the crimes Russia's committing become our new normal... bombing schools and hospitals and apartment buildings to rubble is not normal" - Secretary of State Blinken

Posted by: michaelj72 | Nov 28 2023 18:09 utc | 59

Posted by: Bob | Nov 28 2023 14:22 utc | 3

'Alistair Crooke is living in a fantasy world if he believes that falling public support in the US will in any way diminish US military, diplomatic and economic support for Israel. History tends to show the opposite, and the US government needs to double down and lock in support for failing projects. I'd expect a 10-year, $100 billion gift commitment is in the works.'

As much as I enjoy Crooke's comments I tend to agree with Bob. Nothing short of a nuclear "incident" will dent the "Exceptional Nation's" belief in itself. But if I may play sci-fi geopolitician just a little bit: Prof. Michael Hudson has an interesting theory about Israel. For him it is a convenient tool for the US, a sort of aircraft carrier -- the US had the same in store for Ukraine btw. Two wonderful stellar "democracies" for the exceptionals, ready to die to the last Israeli, Ukrainian (now it should start fading into history) Afghans, South Vietnamese, Cambodians etc. For Hudson, THE ONLY WAY to bring this pirate empire to heel is to sink a tanker or two in the straits of Hormuz under thre watchful gaze of the Iranians. THEN the US oligarchy will wake up to the groans of the 99% who are not among the billionaire class. And there is a knock on: the Arab street must b e wondering why their Emirs, presidents and so on have not done exactly that.

Posted by: Stierlitz | Nov 28 2023 18:09 utc | 60

….Nothing short of a nuclear "incident" will dent the "Exceptional Nation's" belief in itself.…..

Au contraine Mon Ami - the wars end when Washington can no longer sell cheap low interest debt to fund the wars. Washington is already in a financial death spiral. Will take a few years

Posted by: Exile | Nov 28 2023 18:14 utc | 61

Jeremy Scahill interviewed on Democracy Now! explains the absurdity of the 'tunnels' under Al Shifa as presented by the IDF:


Jeremy Scahill: Israel's lethal lie about Al Shifa hospital

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 18:16 utc | 62

The problem here, however, is that nobody gives a straw for the Palestinians, who are a bunch of extremely toxic people grown to kill and hate since little children.

It is this utterly ridiculous and unhinged viewpoint that drives the dominant ethnic nationalism and religious supremacism that gives Israelis their peculiarly psychopathic view of the world. They really have been living in a bubble and are utterly convinced of their own 'rightness'.

The Israeli army and air force is cowardly bombing defenseless civilians from the air to drive them into the Sinai and steal their land. At least have the courage to admit your brazen theft and mass murder, you fascists. You know exactly what Israel is doing but you're too ashamed to admit it outright.

Personally I'm enjoying reminding Maericans that the bombs that kill children and women in their thousands and flatten hospitals and churches and schools were paid for with their tax dollars. Meanwhile Israelis get a free - rather extremely heavily subsidized - university education. Then ask them how that student debt forgiveness thing is going.

The times are changing, and the road for Israel to operate with impunity is coming to an end. Personally I'm looking forward to watching these IDF leadership clowns squirm before tribunals using the evidence they themselves provided of their monstrous war crimes.

Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 28 2023 18:18 utc | 63

Elon Musk chatting with Israeli president
🇺🇸🏴‍☠️🇮🇱 'No Choice But To Kill Those Who Murder Civilians,' Says Elon Musk
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/89974
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 28 2023 14:44 utc | 9

I don't know what to make of Musk after this. Is he ignorant of the history of Palestine and the inhuman treatment of the people? Is he ignorant about recent events around hospitals in Gaza? Does he know that the Israelis killed many of their own on October 7th and have been murdering Palestinians for decades? If he is ignorant of these things, it would not surprise me. Even Tulsi Gabbard appeared ignorant in this sense. But maybe he does know all this but has been told to cooperate. If he was not under such pressure he should have arranged a meeting with the Palestinian side also. It seems fishy to me. Did Musk act independently and does he really believe that Hamas must be exterminated?

Posted by: Dr. Rob Campbell | Nov 28 2023 18:23 utc | 64

I find it difficult to muster sympathy for the unmentionables.
They ask for it, and they get it.

Posted by: g wiltek | Nov 28 2023 18:27 utc | 65

Norman Finkelstein exposes Alan Dershowitz on live radio as a complete fraud and plagiarist and bitchslaps him into literally the next dimension:

When Norman Finkelstein Challenged Alan Dershowitz on Democracy Now

For those needing relief, the sight of Dershowitz squirming in the presence of a truly superior intellect should prove therapeutic.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 18:35 utc | 66

I contend Bob did not read Mr Crooke's article
the quote I posted was not Alistair's and if the article was read one would realize just how on the mark he is

Posted by: ld | Nov 28 2023 18:37 utc | 67

Posted by: Augusto Pi | Nov 28 2023 17:09 utc | 43

##################

I do find it fascinating that if you allow people to speak long enough, they will tell you everything you need to know about them.

* make of that place a garden just as the Israelis have made a garden of their own territory
A Middle Eastern police state with US tax dollars, what an accomplishment!

* nobody gives a straw for the Palestinians, who are a bunch of extremely toxic people grown to kill and hate since little children
That's what happens when you raise children in a concentration camp under Apartheid conditions

* It is quite remarkable that nobody among the antisemitic crowd ever mentions the fact
The Palestinians are Semites

* Crooke has an obvious anti-Israeli bias
Or maybe he's conducted enough diplomatic exercises among the Zionists to see them for the evil race supremacists that they really are?

* Israel does not care, nor should they
Israel is very close to disappearing for good. It might be time for them to care since they have lost the younger generation in the West and much of the Global South

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 28 2023 18:37 utc | 68

Dr. Rob [email protected], if Musk says that, then he has outed himself, it could be a circle the wagons moment.

Cheers M

Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 28 2023 18:38 utc | 69

Elijah J. Magnier 🇪🇺 @ejmalrai

I have a serious feeling that the military war on #Gaza is over. #Israel is now conducting a humanitarian siege and won't withdraw from the north except as part of a package deal.

Posted by: b | Nov 28 2023 14:13 utc | 1

Well 2 days ago Eisenhower Carrier Strike Group entered Persian Golf. They were welcomed by several Iranian drones and Guided Missile Speedboats. Something like this happened:

IRGC Coastal Command: (in Persian) Order your Helicopter to land.
Eisenhower Bridge: (in Persian) Our Helicopter is flying above our fleet.
IRGC Coastal Command: (in Persian) Order your Helicopter to land!
IRGC Coastal Command: (in Persian) Correct your direction to southern waters.
Eisenhower Bridge: (in Persian) We are moving to the southern waters.

The corresponding report said:
"According to the statements of commanders and high-ranking officials of the Islamic Republic of Iran, the presence of the Eisenhower aircraft carrier not only does not change the security process of the region, but also causes tension and insecurity in the region. The countries of the region are able to ensure the security of the region without the intervention of foreigners, and there is no need for the presence of the United States."

http://fna.ir/3gh41a (text including video)

Anyone who has observed the Persian Golf military traffic in the recent years, knows that when US big gunships enter the Persian Golf it's a sign of deescalation and not aggression. You may laugh at this, but here is the point: "Look! we make our big gun a sitting duck within your missile's range, so there is no reason for tension."

Getting back to Magnier, I think his "serious feeling" point to the right direction.

Posted by: Framarz | Nov 28 2023 18:39 utc | 70

Maybe Netanyahu & Biden are thinking 'If Bush & Cheney got away w/killing a million + Arabs + in Iraq & crippling another million+, then we should be able to get away with our genocide in Palestine & proxy war on Russia'. Wishful thinking indeed. There is absolutely no question that they will eventually face justice. It's only a question of when. The world is watching & many millions recognize their barbaric behavior as what it is. Reality is not affected by our ignorance or beliefs. There is much more to every picture than meets the eyes. In this 'information age' we are witnessing/participating in mass Information Warfare, where the good & gullible people are being manipulated like sheep. All those (both the paid workers & volunteers) who parrot the talking point's in support of crimes against humanity, endless wars, big lies, & genocide - have blood on their hands, and are on the wrong side of history.

"In a blatant violation of international law, the Israeli state has in the past days, killed thousands of innocent men, women and children, in an extraordinary, criminal, revenge atrocity against an unarmed civilian population, that has been under a blockade of essential goods, medicines and electricity for now 16 years. Those killed in this mass murder were all indigenous Muslim Arabs, living in Gaza, in their traditional homeland of Palestine. They comprised the majority demographic of Palestine for well over a millennium, until 1948 when their land was forcibly partitioned by an American dominated, then newly constituted, United Nations, in New York."

Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity: Netanyahu Has Ordered Mass Murder, a Blatant Violation of International Law
By Hans Stehling
Global Research, November 28, 2023
https://www.globalresearch.ca/genocide-crimes-against-humanity-netanyahu-ordered-mass-murder-blatant-violation-international-law/5841478


Craig Mokhiber, longtime international human rights lawyer who served as director of the New York Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights... resigned & accused the United Nations of failing to address what he calls a “text-book case of genocide” unfolding in Gaza.
In a letter addressed to the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Volker Türk, Craig Mokhiber wrote, quote, “In Gaza, civilian homes, schools, churches, mosques, and medical institutions are wantonly attacked as thousands of civilians are massacred. In the West Bank, including occupied Jerusalem, homes are seized and reassigned based entirely on race, and violent settler pogroms are accompanied by Israeli military units. Across the land, Apartheid rules,” ... “What’s more, the governments of the United States, the United Kingdom, and much of Europe, are wholly complicit in the horrific assault. Not only are these governments refusing to meet their treaty obligations 'to ensure respect' for the Geneva Conventions, but they are in fact actively arming the assault, providing economic and intelligence support, and giving political and diplomatic cover for Israel’s atrocities,” unquote.

“Text-Book Case of Genocide”: Top U.N. Official Craig Mokhiber Resigns, Denounces Israeli Assault on Gaza
Nov 23, 2023 https://www.democracynow.org/2023/11/23/dissenters

#######

Swift-footed is the approach of fate,
And none can justice violate,
But feels its stern hand soon or late.
Aeschylus

Instinctively all men have the feeling that something good can bring good results only and again all the evil must end up with evil or, in the words of a proverb, “Whatsoever a man sows, that shall he reap”. Everybody is bound to know this law and to respect it. Franz Bardon (talking about karma)

Good for good, but for evil, justice. Confucius

Each soul enters the world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defects of its past lives. Its place in this world is determined by past virtues and shortcomings. Origen

In the Puranas it was predicted that toward the end of Kali Yuga humanity would be driven to acts of madness. It is very dangerous that people do not recognize this state... But how do you explain to people that their leaders and their teachers are insane? Kuthumi

Improve the brain, cleanse the ears, bathe the lips. Else you will be the witnesses of your own madness. Maitreya

To recognize one’s own insanity, is of course, the arising of sanity, the beginning of healing and transcendence. Eckhart Tolle

Posted by: Toby C | Nov 28 2023 18:41 utc | 71

@Posted by: whitebeach | Nov 28 2023 16:54 utc | 39

Very revealing Elon Musk's out and out support for Israel and the continued slaughter in Gaza. Why? One would think someone with his 'power' would say and do the right thing. E.g PEACE. There has to be something going on, or he has had a little talking to by Mossad.

Musk has always been somewhat protected by the deep state, otherwise he would be bankrupt and in jail by now for his endless lawlessness. Tesla has received subsidized government loans and endless other subsidies. The deep state actor, Peter Thiel, made him rich by buying out X.com. He can only wander so far away from his support before they yank his chain. It got yanked, and he quickly showed his true colours. He doesn't give an F about anyone but himself. Twitter is a limited hangout, making people believe that there is an alternative when their isn't, just like Trump.

Posted by: Roger | Nov 28 2023 18:46 utc | 72

@Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 18:35 utc | 67

Yeah, but then Dershowitz used his status and connections to destroy Finkelstein's academic career.

Posted by: Roger | Nov 28 2023 18:48 utc | 73

In his Primakov Readings remarks and the Q&A, Lavrov talks about the Palestine Crisis along with many other foreign policy related issues. It's all translated here, "Lavrov's Annual Primakov Readings Speech".

Putin also made a major address today to the Plenary session of the World Russian People's Council. That will soon be available in translated form. I'll post the link when done.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 28 2023 18:52 utc | 74

Posted by: Roger | Nov 28 2023 18:48 utc | 74

###############

The secular obsessions with material and status in this world make everyone fragile. That is how they get so many people to fall in line with pure evil. That was Mossad's guy Jeffrey Epstein's schtick. Compromise people and control them with blackmail.

One has to live for some ideal higher than wealth and adoration or they will be a pawn in this world, and likely, miserable in the next.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 28 2023 18:54 utc | 75

Yeah, but then Dershowitz used his status and connections to destroy Finkelstein's academic career.

Posted by: Roger | Nov 28 2023 18:48 utc | 74

I don't understand what you mean.

I see Finkelstein all over the place these days, he seems much in demand, even on Piers Morgan (fwiw).

He is clearly still an academic and a world famous one at that.

He has produced academic work of note which will continue to be referenced for decades if not centuries by historians and sociologists at least.

The "academic" was not destroyed.

Neither was his work.

The "career" you speak of merely refers to a bunch of White boy's clubs he might have potentially have been invited to had he not followed his true passion in life.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 18:57 utc | 76

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 18:57 utc | 77

###############

"If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 28 2023 19:02 utc | 77

How Dersh destroyed Finkelstein's academic career can be found out with minimal effort but even that is to much to ask.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 28 2023 19:04 utc | 78

* nobody gives a straw for the Palestinians, who are a bunch of extremely toxic people grown to kill and hate since little children
That's what happens when you raise children in a concentration camp under Apartheid conditions

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 28 2023 18:37 utc | 69

You should have pasted this dimwit that YouTube clip of isreali children singing a song of genocide.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 19:05 utc | 79

The Nov. 28, 2023 article by MK Bhadrakumar posted at Indian Punchline is a superb analysis of the quandary in Gaza, offered by an superb observer of the region. Most barflies here will enjoy reading it:

https://www.indianpunchline.com/the-middle-east-at-an-inflection-point/

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 28 2023 19:08 utc | 80

Of course, the selection is heavily weighted towards journalists and politicians - consisting mainly of people inspiring hopes for the future.

Posted by: grunzt | Nov 28 2023 15:41 utc | 19

I do like your list-

Maybe we could get b to require every poster to make a list?

Posted by: william paul | Nov 28 2023 19:11 utc | 81

Great points from Honzo well worth repeating! The US & Israel are drowning in their own ignorance/blindness. They will learn & eventually will see the importance of truth, goodwill & cooperation for the greater good.
Two things those who argue that History will repeat itself- are apparently overlooking are the facts that 1) mass leaking to expose corruption is easier now than ever, and 2) more people than ever before are paying attention, recognizing & resisting, the insanity of those who support endless wars, big lies, & dirty tricks, and are extremely anxious for big changes.

Clausewitz said that war is an extension of diplomacy by other means. The Russians understand that diplomacy is an extension of war by other means. Every time Putin makes a policy statement, western 'sympathizers' are 'disappointed. But Putin is systematically destroying US hegemony. How disappointing is that?

Russia and China have consistently offered reasonable alternatives to violence, knowing full well that the west would reject them. The point of these operations is to awaken the sleepers to the true nature of the enemy. This is working very well. Russia and China are now a combined center of gravity to global resistance to US hegemony, and it is the US and its satrapies that are increasingly isolated and getting weaker day by day.

Neither Putin nor Xi is any position to dictate a solution to the Zionist entity. Unlike western blowhards, they know this. What they are doing is shaping the battlefield of the coming regional war that will end Israel as a zionist state. When that goes down, they will both support the right of self-determination of the victors.

Posted by: Honzo | Nov 28 2023 17:42 utc | 51

Posted by: Toby C | Nov 28 2023 19:11 utc | 82

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 28 2023 19:04 utc | 79

Some are capable of more than googling.

Some are capable of actual insight.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 19:11 utc | 83

Maybe we could get b to require every poster to make a list?

Posted by: william paul | Nov 28 2023 19:11 utc | 82

Let's see yours, since you've been begging for lists all day in some misguided attempt at character profiling.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 19:13 utc | 84

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 19:11 utc | 84

Others are capable of neither.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 28 2023 19:15 utc | 85

Posted by: Bob | Nov 28 2023 14:22 utc | 3

'Alistair Crooke is living in a fantasy world if he believes that falling public support in the US will in any way diminish US military, diplomatic and economic support for Israel. History tends to show the opposite, and the US government needs to double down and lock in support for failing projects. I'd expect a 10-year, $100 billion gift commitment is in the works.'

-------

Alistair Crooke has deep experience in Middle East affairs. He is highly regarded around the world. His 'fantasy world' as you call it, is full of truth.

And if you will forgive me for being forward Bob, who are you, that we should toss out what Alastair presents in his anaysis and listen to your 'wise' opinion? Do you have decades of experience in Middle East diplomacy as Alastair does?

Posted by: Áobh O'Sheachnasaigh | Nov 28 2023 16:17 utc | 28

I agree with you Aobh; Cooke is intelligent, experienced and speaks in measured diplomatic tones. You can feel his anguish over the whole ugly affair.

Posted by: canuck | Nov 28 2023 19:16 utc | 86

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 19:13 utc | 85

By all means make yourself at home.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 28 2023 19:16 utc | 87

@ JB | 14

The 1967 borders are the official settlement offer of the Palestinian Authority.

Posted by: Figleaf23 | Nov 28 2023 19:16 utc | 88

The price of gasoline is down to $2.90 a gallon here in central Ohio. The US economy is booming as manufacturing of all sorts is being relocated to US. Workers wages are outstripping inflation. Trump’s support is evaporating as ruling elites start putting their money on Niki Hailey. Meanwhile inflation is out of control in China, and manufacturing sinks into depression—the economy is so bad in Russia that economic statistics are state secrets more closely guarded than military secrets.
As with China in its war with Japan—everyday that Ukraine stays in the fight is a day closer to Russia’s defeat. Continue to refight Stalingrad and Kursk, meanwhile the US continues to follow the winning strategy of every littoral power waging war against continental powers.

Posted by: Zargo | Nov 28 2023 19:17 utc | 89

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 28 2023 19:15 utc | 86

And yet they still post.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 19:17 utc | 90

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 28 2023 19:16 utc | 88

That's not for you to offer.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 19:19 utc | 91

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 19:17 utc | 91

Yes they make themselves at home as if they had no life.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 28 2023 19:20 utc | 92

@Bob, #3:

Alistair Crooke is not dwelling in fantasy! Support for Zionism is cratering across the western world. There is a time lag between public sentiments being reflected by practicing politicians. This time lag is presently being lapsed, as slowly being evidenced in Europe. It will hit N America in due time, first in the mid-west, then South/Southeast, then the west, then finally the east.

Presently, incumbent politicians are held hostages by the Jewish Lobby who has the backing of the evangelical Christian organizations/academia/media, so most politicians are afraid of losing elections. That fear will slowly subside.

Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 28 2023 19:20 utc | 93

That's not for you to offer.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 19:19 utc | 92

It is not for you to take.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 28 2023 19:21 utc | 94

@Roger | Nov 28 2023 18:46 utc | 73

Musk has always been somewhat protected by the deep state, otherwise he would be bankrupt and in jail by now for his endless lawlessness.

https://t.me/DDGeopolitics/93835

🔴BREAKING: Hamas invites Elon Musk to visit Gaza strip, to see extent of destruction caused by Israeli bombardment - Reuters

https://t.me/presstv/80836

"We invite him to visit Gaza to see the extent of the massacres and destruction committed against the people of Gaza"

Hamas official Osama Hamdan has invited U.S. billionaire Elon Musk to visit Gaza.

Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 28 2023 19:21 utc | 95

That is enough of Bungle's "insight" for one day.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 28 2023 19:23 utc | 96

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 28 2023 19:20 utc | 93

Don't be too hard on yourself.

By the way, you'll probably be more at home on the yahoo forums, I recommend you head over there as soon as you can to mingle with your intellectual peers.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 19:23 utc | 97

Posted by: Zargo | Nov 28 2023 19:17 utc | 90

################

Delusion is a powerful drug.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 28 2023 19:24 utc | 98

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 28 2023 19:23 utc | 98

You sound like Netanyahu.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 28 2023 19:24 utc | 99

"Anyone who has observed the Persian Golf military traffic in the recent years, knows that when US big gunships enter the Persian Golf it's a sign of de-escalation and not aggression. You may laugh at this, but here is the point: "Look! we make our big gun a sitting duck within your missile's range, so there is no reason for tension."

Getting back to Magnier, I think his "serious feeling" point to the right direction.

Posted by: Framarz | Nov 28 2023 18:39 utc | 71

A few years ago at a drunken post golf outing an American Colonel told me much the same thing: he said, "if there's going to be a real War all the US aircraft carriers would be in port not at sea cause there they are sitting ducks"

I thought that was just an unsober moment but your post reminded me of that paradox he told me.

Posted by: canuck | Nov 28 2023 19:25 utc | 100

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