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November 26, 2023
Palestine Open Thread 2023-286
Comments
If evangelicals are worshipping Israel in the hope of converting them to Christianity, so that Jesus can come, why don’t they get it done already? These genocides would not happen without the evangelicals’ support in the US. Half of Gaza now laying waste is also the evangelicals’ fault and I don’t think Jesus is going to be happy with these suckers when he comes.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 27 2023 4:54 utc | 101
I know that Genocide Joe and Psycho’ killer Nutandyahoo are just itching to get on with their mass murdering, but hey the holidays are coming up. All the joy that was brought on by the release of hostages and prisoners is heart warming. The world would hate to see the good vibes get squashed by somebody suddenly shorting out the ceasefire. All who embrace humanity should want to see the ceasefire continue on indefinately, and maybe set a stage for some real peace. Anyway, whoever starts shooting first and breaks the current ceasefire will be a real Grinch who steals Christmas.
Posted by: Gee Eye Joe | Nov 27 2023 5:01 utc | 102
hey the holidays are coming up
Posted by: Gee Eye Joe | Nov 27 2023 5:01 utc | 102
Actually the expression is “Christmas is coming up”. It was attenuated and adulterated to “holidays” to accommodate the Jewish hanukah but I don’t think you really want to do that anymore. Israel will enter the picture for feats of the holy innocents a couple of days after Xmas to reeanact Herod’s massacre of the baby boys in Jesus’ time.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 27 2023 5:12 utc | 103
https://manaramagazine.org/2023/11/will-saudi-arabias-streak-of-liberalization-extend-to-normalizing-ties-with-israel/
While war on the ground …no stop for big business projected…2030
Posted by: Cevede | Nov 27 2023 5:21 utc | 104
Middle East Eye reports:
A collective of language activists has accused the BBC of mistranslating an interview recorded in Arabic with a released Palestinian prisoner, so that she appeared to be praising Hamas despite never mentioning the group.
Respond Crisis Translation said that her original quote attacking her Israeli captors for the inhumane conditions prisoners were kept under – “they imprisoned us for a month. As winter came, they cut off the electricity. We almost died from the cold weather” – was translated into English subtitles as “and no one helped us. Only Hamas cared. Those who felt our suffering, I thank them very much”.
She then said “they sprayed us with pepper spray and left us to die inside the prison”, which the subtitles translated as “and we love them very much”, which could make it appear as if her sentiments were directed at Hamas.
“She never mentioned Hamas or a word like it,” the organisation tweeted.
“This egregious mistranslation is not just a language error; it is a racist fabrication that fans the flames of the war.
“Mistranslations such as these – intentional or not – are exacerbating the ongoing genocide of Palestinians in Gaza.
Posted by: Exile | Nov 27 2023 5:37 utc | 105
Exile 105
Now you know why BBC world service base is at White City, White lies, White supremacy. MAGA MAMA, my darling.
And did those feet,,, in ancient time,,, walk upon England’s ,, perfidious lies ?
And was Jerusalem,,, builded here,,,
on Sunak’s Zionistic Land .
Pompom.pom. pompompity pom.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 27 2023 5:58 utc | 106
Both Hamas and Israel seem prepared to extend the truce/ceasefire.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 27 2023 6:32 utc | 107
A DISNFORMATION WAR IS RAGING AND ISRAEL IS LOSING? LOL. From Haaretz:
A disinformation war is raging online and Israel is losing, says Omer Benjakob, Haaretz’s cybersecurity and technology correspondent.
It isn’t as if an effort isn’t being made by Israel to professionally curate and manage information about the war with Hamas in a responsible way and with reliable “high value content,” he tells Allison Kaplan Sommer on the Haaretz Weekly podcast. “The problem is when you juxtapose that to what Hamas is doing.”
In today’s digital space, Benjakob explains, “highly produced graphics looks like your country hired a PR company to do PR for you, which is literally what we do and what we’ve always done. The whole idea of hasbara – that you need to do a professional-level kind of explanation – is actually shooting us in the foot right now. Hamas is just flooding the internet with raw materials that people can then supposedly check on their own.” When it’s checked, much of it is unreliable and untrue, but by then it’s too late because they have controlled the discourse for days.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 27 2023 6:53 utc | 108
The reason Israel is losing is that it is blatantly obvious to anyone that Israelis are morons and liars. It is not just Hamas that is flooding the internet with raw material but IDF morons posting videos of their atrocities online. Also, if Israel admits it is losing the disinformation war it admits it is participating in disinformation, genius.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 27 2023 7:01 utc | 109
Xinhuanet has a video posting up with the title
Israel, Hamas complete 3rd prisoner-hostage swap, truce extension under discussion
Of note/news to me
In the video it is mentioned that Occupied Palestine indicated a willingness to extend the pause if Hamas would release at least 10 hostages per day
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 27 2023 7:07 utc | 110
https://twitter.com/IsraelMFA/status/1712330627607924776?t=5dElRmH_UrFjQ_H1HYNqkQ&s=19
Warning bodies burnt.
But this is official idf post . Lies as usual . These are israeli rave kids . They claim are hamas fighters. They look like a couple in the back seat and no weapons that would be with them if they were fighters.
Posted by: Hankster | Nov 27 2023 7:50 utc | 111
Israel-Palestine Weekly Update 24th November: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/israel-palestine-weekly-update-6f3
Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Nov 27 2023 8:18 utc | 112
Just when you think Jewish Zionist brainwashing and cultural inculcation can’t be shaken ….
Q. When did you start asking yourself the question: What about Palestine?
A. Too fricken late!
I didn’t understand the concept of Zionism. Zionism is just Judaism, right? Israel is just a safe have for Jewish people …. the concept of birthright made total sense, I didn’t even question it that the Govt would subsidize a trip to Israel so you could see your “homeland”. That didn’t strike me as weird at all….. Israel was just the part of the package of being Jewish.
BUT I didn’t think about how many other people have been ‘genocided’ and that they don’t get their own Theocratic Ethnostate they get to call their own!
I didn’t know that in order to achieve that, in order to get Israel to be Israel, that
Palestinians had to be forcibly removed from their homes.
I didn’t know that it was an illegal occupation.
I didn’t know that Israel controlled a huge percentage of Palestinians water.
I didn’t know that it was a 75-year occupation.
I didn’t know that Palestinians had to move through checkpoints in order to get anywhere.
I didn’t know that 90% of their economy is from handouts that like the world has been giving them resources because they don’t have any of their own because of said occupation.
I didn’t know that there were thousands of Palestinian prisoners in Israel that don’t get a
trial, hundreds of whom are kids.
I didn’t know that ………………………
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rnl8LOL3rdo
Good Jimmy Dore explanatory video showing exactly what Jewish people and everyone else need to know because (unbelievably) it is quite possible they don’t even know that ……
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 27 2023 8:39 utc | 113
Some complain when they do
Posted by: bubbles | Nov 26 2023 22:55 utc | 64
Piotr was not complaining about the fact that they covered it but how: most people will never read past the headlines and according to the headlines, we only learn that there is a little “reshaping” going on after Oct 7.
Bloomberg’s RESHAPING defined: killing, kidnapping, torturing, maiming Palestinians including young children for any excuse at any time, stealing land and homes, humiliating Palestinians at every point during their daily lives, pouring cement into their wells, uprooting their trees, killing their livestock….the list is too long. Lie you remodel or reshape your living room.
@Giyan: I am unable to see from my sheltered existence in England: well that explains a lot of your theorizing.
Posted by: pq | Nov 27 2023 9:11 utc | 114
https://manaramagazine.org/2023/11/will-saudi-arabias-streak-of-liberalization-extend-to-normalizing-ties-with-israel/
Posted by: Cevede | Nov 27 2023 5:21 utc | 104
Another repetition of Israeli propaganda. If Saudi were going to sign, they would have signed years ago, in Trump’s time.
Posted by: laguerre | Nov 27 2023 9:28 utc | 115
@Arch Bungle | Nov 27 2023 3:00 utc | 89
Can we call the Hamas 7 October offensive an “SMO”?
Of course. Its objective is the depalestinization of Gaza.
Posted by: SG | Nov 27 2023 9:32 utc | 116
Anybody who advocates
-against Hamas / Jenin resistance and for disarming only Palestinians but not Israel
-for the Palestinian Authority
is a bad actor and a tool for Empire.
To start learning about Hamas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KitcefUOMMw
The new generation of resistance in Jenin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmqnE7VsY0E
To learn something about the PA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPSLI4c-Je4
Hamas started out as a charity. BEFORE it turned to armed resistance it offered a peace plan to Israel and the so called “international community”. Declined of course. Even to speak of “Hamas” as the only resistance military displays astonishing ignorance.
Most armchair Western experts donating their time to Indy media are working to desperately salvage Empire’s interests as they watch their precious Zionist project self immolate with its own crude barbarism.
Scott Ritter makes sense but I disagree with him that Hamas “expected” Israel’s response based on the Dahiya doctrine. That doctrine involved flattening the Dahiya neighbourbood in Lebanon. It did NOT involve systematically bombing every hospital and targeting journalists. No normal person could have predicted Israel’s genocidal rampage.
To understand the complexity there are lots of journalists who have specialized in this conflict, sources like Electronic Intifada, https://breakthroughnews.org/ and their youtube channel. Independent journalists and historians like Zachary Foster, Vanessa Beeley, Eva Bartlett, Asa Winstanley, Max Blumenthal and many others.
All the blablabla about Muslim Brotherhood Islam this and Islam that are diversionary. The fighters are young men who have mostly lost family to past Israeli aggressions. They know they have chosen a path which involves either prison + torture or immediate death.
If you listen to the interviews of fighters they talk about their dreams of getting married, having kids, going hiking, playing music. These simple dreams are becoming impossible for the majority. They are are the prerogative of a small minority of Palestinians who are in the political struture / bureaucracy of the PA, the PA police, the Western NGOs and some Western backed Palestinian businesspeople
The issue is not either their religious identity or that of the occupier. The core issue is resisting apartheid settler colonialism. It’s that simple. The religious identities of the occupier and occupied are largely irrelevant. Hezbollahas has many Christian members and includes protection of Christians in its charter.
Posted by: pq | Nov 27 2023 9:43 utc | 117
journalist jonathan cook in a recent piece; history & good commentary
https://www.jonathan-cook.net/2023-11-21/israel-goals-lies-1948-gaza/
Israel and its allies are repurposing the goals and lies of 1948 – in Gaza in 2023
21 November 2023
Israel is openly carrying out ethnic cleansing in Gaza. Yet, just as happened with the first Nakba in 1948, Israel’s lies and deceptions dominate the West’s media and political narrative
“….It is astonishing to see that what was true in 1948 is equally true in 2023. Israel spreads lies and deceit. Western elites repeat those lies. And even when Israel commits crimes against humanity in broad daylight, when it warns in advance of what it is doing, Western establishments still refuse to acknowledge those crimes.
The truth, which should have been obvious long before, in 1948, is that Israel is not a peace-loving, liberal democracy. It is a classic settler colonial state, following in a long “Western” tradition that led to the founding of the United States, Canada and Australia, among others.
Settler colonialism’s mission is always the same: to replace the native population…..”
Posted by: michaelj72 | Nov 27 2023 9:52 utc | 118
Hamas’s show of strength by releasing the third batch of 13+4 hostages yesterday Sunday 26/11 in central Gaza (instead of Rafah, as on the two previous days) amidst TV crews & photojournalists, is a fly in the face of Zionist propaganda claiming that IOF have North/Central Gaza under control.
On a different subject: perhaps some barflies have any information about the whereabouts of the 1.000-strong fleet that was supposed to sail 23/11 from Bodrum, Turkey towards Ashdod? Mentions about it in the international press (both East & West) have disappeared w/o a trace. Perhaps it was halted to facilitate the 4-day truce. Or perhaps it was just a bargain chip to enforce said truce. We may hear again about it, if pressure needs to be applied on the Zionist entity to extend the truce.
Posted by: Memory Man | Nov 27 2023 9:56 utc | 119
Respond to #6. Intelligence alone does not determine ones character. It can be a tool for good or evil.
“Wisdom of Solomon” vs. “Evil Genius”
Posted by: Willow | Nov 26 2023 21:17 utc | 48
The “Wisdom” of Solomon is oft mentioned, but the only story I remember that tried to substantiate this claim to the title, was the one where Solomon suggested cutting a baby in half to share it between two women disputing who was the legitimate mother.
History rhymes?
Posted by: retroflecks | Nov 27 2023 9:59 utc | 120
@ pq | Nov 27 2023 9:43 utc | 117
Very well said.
Posted by: Memory Man | Nov 27 2023 10:03 utc | 121
Gilbert Doctorow’s latest piece:
Three hundred thousand Israelis have fled abroad since 7 October
Posted by: tawharanui | Nov 27 2023 10:03 utc | 122
On a different subject: perhaps some barflies have any information about the whereabouts of the 1.000-strong fleet that was supposed to sail 23/11 from Bodrum, Turkey towards Ashdod? Mentions about it in the international press (both East & West) have disappeared w/o a trace.
Posted by: Memory Man | Nov 27 2023 9:56 utc | 119
on “News Real” with Joe & Niall, they talked about this… the flotilla is still being assembled.
I had initially heard it was to deliver supplies directly to Gaza, but these guys are saying that it will not intend to land, and that they will instead just crowd the waters offshore to be in the way of Israeli warships.
Non-delivery of humanitarian supplies — sounds to me like they were threatened in no uncertain terms.
Posted by: retroflecks | Nov 27 2023 10:14 utc | 123
These simple dreams are becoming impossible for the majority. They are are the prerogative of a small minority of Palestinians who are in the political struture …….
Posted by: pq | Nov 27 2023 9:43 utc | 117
WOW!
That also describes the plight of much of the new generaion in the US exactly, now that the job and housing market are in such bad shape, thanks in part to the draconian “plandemic” and “bidenomics”!
Posted by: william paul | Nov 27 2023 10:35 utc | 124
@ retroflecks | Nov 27 2023 10:14 utc | 123
Thanks.
My sources were adamant that delivering supplies directly to Gaza was never their intention. Volkan Okçu, the flotilla’s spokesperson said they intend(ed) to block maritime delivery of arms & goods for 7-10 days while remaining in international waters off Ashdod.
As of being threatened in no uncertain terms…the same spokesperson said they would be very diligent not to follow the Mavi Marmara’s fate.
Posted by: Memory Man | Nov 27 2023 10:51 utc | 125
UK Govt = Wallace & Gromit chromosome
https://t.me/llordofwar/248078
◾British Secretary of State for Business and Trade, Kemi Badenoch, blatantly lies to BBC claiming Israel has not broken international law in its war on Gaza;
– It looks like Israel has taken great pains to stay within the confines of the law, and we applaud them for that. So we want to make sure that there is not a case at all for there to be any scenario where Israel is under criticism for breaking international law.
◾Follow:
t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses
Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 27 2023 11:17 utc | 126
VARDAR WAS CALLED A CLOWN FOR USING WORDS LOST AND FOUND:
Included in the Israeli hostages was 9-year-old Emily Hand – a girl of Irish and Israeli descent. Her father initially believed that his daughter was murdered during the onslaught by Hamas terrorists on Oct. 7. Hand was held captive by Hamas terrorists for 50 days – during that time, Emily turned nine years old.
Ireland Prime Minister Leo Varadkar commented on the hostage release on Saturday. However, Varadkar received a barrage of criticism for the wording of Hand’s release by the Hamas terrorists.
“This is a day of enormous joy and relief for Emily Hand and her family. An innocent child who was lost has now been found and returned, and we breathe a massive sigh of relief. Our prayers have been answered,” Varadkar wrote on the X social media platform.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 27 2023 12:41 utc | 127
OK fair in love and war regardless, I am totally disgusted that Sunak and Biden are gaslighting Palestine with 1200 deaths that Israel caused by Hannibalising their own children in the rave.
Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in rhein victim’s mind .
Typically gaslighters are seeking to gain
power and control over the other person by distorting reality and forcing them ( and the whole world ) to question their own judgement and intuition.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 27 2023 12:46 utc | 128
Taken from a definition of Gaslighting by the Newprt Institute and adapted by me to include the whole world as victims of Zionist gaslighting . Israel killed hundreds of its own people by helicopter missiles and gun fire using the Hannibal option, murdering your own citizens.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 27 2023 12:54 utc | 129
Actually the expression is “Christmas is coming up”. It was attenuated and adulterated to “holidays” to accommodate the Jewish hanukah . . . .
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 27 2023 5:12 utc | 103
++++++++
Thanks for the reminder of one of the first “euphemizations” imposed on us.
I am sick of the verbal kowtowing to all of these piggybackers.
“Christmas is coming, the geese are getting fat . . .”
Posted by: Jane | Nov 27 2023 13:04 utc | 130
Lead story at UNZ today
I recommend the story by Ron
I do not know if the link will pass
quoted;
“We are certainly witnessing the greatest televised slaughter of helpless civilians in the history of the world, with nothing even remotely comparable coming to mind.
The Moon of Alabama blogger had fearlessly reported so many controversial facts about the Ukraine war and other important matters, but a few days ago he ran a rather apologetic post entitled “There Are Certain Things I Can Not Write About,” opening with:
I have tried to write about Gaza. But I am too aghast, outraged and depressed to create a sensible piece.
So instead of coming up with something by myself I will leave you with a few links…
Given that the blogger is a German living in Germany, he may have also reasonably feared a knock on the door and a prison cell if he were too candid in his views.
bear witness
https://twitter.com/i/status/1713761928802111928
Posted by: ld | Nov 27 2023 13:53 utc | 131
Be careful not to stereotype.
Not all Jews are pro-Genocide.
Posted by: librul | Nov 27 2023 13:57 utc | 132
Not all Jews are pro-Genocide.
Posted by: librul | Nov 27 2023 13:57 utc | 132
Not all Nazis were pro genocide either.
We must be careful not to stereotype.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 27 2023 14:06 utc | 133
Of course. Its objective is the depalestinization of Gaza.
Posted by: SG | Nov 27 2023 9:32 utc | 116
I prefer to think it’s objective is the denazification, deionization and recolonization of Palestine.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 27 2023 14:16 utc | 134
So Elon Musk went to Israel and just met with Netanyahu.
I opened the Xitter ap this AM to a popup notice that my account was being limited for making a “harrassing” post. If I removed the post my account would be restored in 8 hours.
Article about the meeting
https://www.axios.com/2023/11/27/elon-musk-visit-israel-netanyahu-hamas-attack
Posted by: Laura Roslin | Nov 27 2023 14:23 utc | 135
pq 114
Strange attack. My mind isn’t restricted by my physical location.
Who bought the weapons from Ukraine? Charitable donations for aid to Palestine ? Islamist plutocrats like Erdogan that sponsor Islamic State ? USUKIS budgets for Divide snd Rule ?
There is no terrorism except State terrorism. You are unfortunately incorrect in thinking that Hamas would attack Israel , unless some State Actor like Mossad , CIA or UK Empire 2 Tories though they could derive some benefit from it.
What you say about individual Hamas motivation is of course completely right.
To politicians this is just a game, and if we play the same game of kowtowing to Global Crimianal Mafia as these politicians, we are just as guilty as Sunak or Macron.
My point is that whatever genuine attempts are made to help the victims of genocide, are wrecked by Political.islam and political Judaism, Islamism.and Zionism.
Talking about idealism is diversionary.
Idealism isn’t the problem.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 27 2023 14:27 utc | 136
“Is Israel losing the war?” Alastair Crooke at Judging Freedom You/Tube an hour ago
Posted by: Pundita | Nov 27 2023 14:35 utc | 137
Another repetition of Israeli propaganda. If Saudi were going to sign, they would have signed years ago, in Trump’s time.
Posted by: laguerre | Nov 27 2023 9:28 utc | 115
I am only responding to the notion that KSA’s decision as to when and why of (officially) normalizing relations with Israel is independent of any other consideration.
China is investing heavily in the area. China is _not_, repeat not, interested in conflict. They keep saying it and I believe them.
China’s economic partners, strategic in nature to a substantial degree as far as China is concerned, in the area include Israel, KSA, UAE, and Iran.
There is no upside to KSA prematurely stating the obvious to the world public before China is satisfied that the area is now in a ‘stable’ configuration, whatever that it. That is a requirement for China’s great plans for its future. Palestine issue has to be resolved or all of China’s investments will go up in smoke when things start getting broken.
KSA did shake hands with Iran in Beijing. That was timely. Once Palestinian matter is settled, China (one presumes) sees a triangle of accords between the Shia, the Arabs, and the Jews. That does seem to have left Turkey out of the diagram. Muslim Brotherhood steps in to remind China that they too have a say in the “stability of the area”.
Posted by: robinthehood | Nov 27 2023 14:48 utc | 138
So I read at South Front that the AC Eisenhower has entered the Persian Gulf.
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 27 2023 14:55 utc | 139
https://www.newarab.com/news/hamascom-israels-latest-propaganda-tool#:~:text=But%20social%20media%20users%20and,to%20the%20official%20Hamas%20group.
Did we all see how Israel promoted hamas.com even on musks Twitter ( he claims to delete fake sites but I guess his visit to Netanyahu changed all that. )
Website is hosted by wix , and israeli site and clearly fake meant to misdirect the millions of new people seeking info
Posted by: Hankster | Nov 27 2023 14:59 utc | 140
AC Eisenhower has entered the Persian Gulf.
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 27 2023 14:55 utc | 139
How kind of the Americans to bring themselves within Iranian range …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 27 2023 15:07 utc | 141
How kind of the Americans to bring themselves within Iranian range …
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 27 2023 15:07 utc | 140
I do wonder what they think they are going to do in there.
I will hazard a guess that they are supposed or overawe the locals and “protect” all those lily pads.
Maybe “Draw Iran into the conflict”.
It’s like a bad movie.
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 27 2023 15:11 utc | 142
136
The Israeli Genocide Forces moved the Rave of young graduates to between their military base and the planned Hamas breakthrough point. That means that Netanyahu planned to create a massacre of Kibbutzim, Female operators of CCTV next to the fence, Ravers, Rescuers and Israeli civilians.
The purpose of that waste create a narrative of terror, which Netanyahu instantly said declared to be a war.
Wars are the only means for legally taking territory. Thus Netanyahu converted a pre-known minor incursion into a pathetic excuse for carpet bombing Gaza and terrorising West Bank Palestinians.
Netanyahu found his Mongol DNA.
If a nice English gentleman owns some kind of Pit Bull Mongol Terrier, which terrorises the neighbours , chews infants like rag dolls, shakes other creatures’ necks like rats , why are we not automatically indicting the dog and its owner , USUKIS and its Islamist minions, Al Qaida, Iqwan, and the Azov Nazis and putting them down ?
You know why, because the dog and its owner are not the real problem. The real problem is the legislators of the world’s legal institutions that permit bad actors to threaten their neighbours.
Back to you, brothers Xi and Putin.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 27 2023 15:13 utc | 143
It’s easy to become somewhat depressed when you watch the Gaza Genocide unfold in real time, with its tens of thousands of women and children victims, the burnt and destroyed land and its people. All of this supported and encouraged by the political filth who rule over western countries and their lying corporate media. 33 plane loads of UK bombs supplied to drop on Gaza, hundreds of US plane loads.
But things may not be quite that bleak. It is always darkest before the dawn, and things can be turned around very quickly.
The arrogant, venal, corrupt leadership and their lying media are despised as never before. They are terrified of the people they rule over, and are resorting to rigid censorship, blanket surveillance, and outright terrorism and judicial persecution in an attempt to shore up their power. This is a sign of weakness, not strength.
The US Empire is running on empty, living on borrowed time and borrowed money. Its war machine now costs $1.5 trillion a year – all borrowed money. Official debt $34 trillion, with debt interest of $700 billion a year. A budget deficit of $2 trillion a year. The true figures many times higher. All resting on the precipice of hundreds of trillions of dollars of derivatives. Its EU satellites have wrecked their own economies through sanctions and theft of other countries’ assets. Their only future an impoverished, de industrialised, irrelevant backwater.
Israel is now seen for what it is – a genocidal, rabid terrorist regime. The US and its satellites are increasingly alternately despised and ignored by the remaining seven eighths of humanity. Nobody fears them or very much cares about them any more.
China, Russia, Iran, and other countries are dealing with their own and international problems without reference to the US or its wishes. The Washington Regime and their deluded satraps in Brussels think they can take on Russia, China and Iran simultaneously whilst oppressing and extorting their own people. They are severely mistaken. Their whole system will come crashing down like a pack of cards.
Posted by: anon | Nov 27 2023 15:17 utc | 144
The roll of US carriers Ford and Eisenhower
(as well as secret US base Site 512) may be (IMHO):
1. To intercept any (serious) missiles Iran may be fool enough to shoot at Israel.
2. To interpret any (possibly nuke) missiles Israel may be crazy enough to shoot at Iran.
In other words to prevent WW3. It’s an unwitten rule of the rules based order that USA will determine Armageddons start date.
Posted by: MsAnnThrope | Nov 27 2023 15:32 utc | 145
Origin story of Saudi Arabia, unvarnished
https://youtu.be/mtKdCu_VCUk?si=iKkfgG7he1OW12s9
Explains a lot why the talk of normalization is a sham distraction and why Saudi and Israel Zionists have always been allies.
Posted by: Delhiliterally | Nov 27 2023 15:40 utc | 146
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 27 2023 14:27 utc | 136
Sorry if it sounded like an “attack”. Your mind may be restricted not by your physical location but the fact that you admit it is “sheltered”.
What I call Islamists are the people who push “religion” to create theoretical narratives which completely ignore political realities and geopolitical calculations.
They have almost no connection to the events on the ground over 75 years: the distribution of hydrocarbon and other resources, the fakery of Oslo, Camp David, the machinations at the UN, the lobbying of politicians, control over media, the reality of daily life for people in these areas and so on.
The Global War on “Terror” started in Jan 1991 even if those exact words came later on. The USSR had been ticked off as “done”. The Iraq Iran war had gone nowhere so Empire decided to move in on Iraq and Kuwait.
A “religious terrorist” is basically anyone who is sitting on resources and/or in a very geostrategic location and will not hand over their resources to Empire. Look at the map: West Africa, Arabian peninsula, West Asia, Indian subcontinent, Central Asia.
What is a common thread that can be used as an excuse to wage war on all these countries and turn it into “them against us”?
Whose interests does it serve to come up with sticking an “Islamist” label on that huge range of resources?
You call Erdogan an “Islamist plutocrat”. Everything I have ever read about him in NATOstan MSM or indy media only tells me he is a wily political opportunist. In the Arab / Muslim world your choices literally are obey NATO and be labeled a repressive leader because naturally a democracy would be too threatening to Empire. Or you can join the Axis of Evil and spend every moment trying to stay alive.
This religious nonsense is a distraction from settler colonialism in Israel and neocolonial ambitions across that huge swathe of land I mention above. Sure you can pay some useful idiots to stir up trouble in Xinjiang or Syria or wherever. Call them ISIS, call them Ninja Turtles or the Spongebob Army: they are the mercenaries of Empire. But you need a good story for the sheeple so you make it about “religion”.
Posted by: pq | Nov 27 2023 15:46 utc | 147
It’s like a bad movie.
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 27 2023 15:11 utc | 141
Which reminds of a series of grainy videos the US navy produced some years ago in an attempt to frame Iran for planting mines on commercial ships.
That attempt to frame Iran failed too.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 27 2023 15:46 utc | 148
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/23/truce-gaza-joe-biden-peace-israel-palestinian-authority
An interesting mainstream opinion piece. He argues that things have changed. I think he may be right.
For one thing, wokeness is going to hurt Israel. In the past, there was respect for democracy at least superficialy. The Woke crowd are social levelers who hate success because it contrasts with the failure of their lives. While they dream of being revolutionaries, the reality is that they will be debt burdened nobodies for life. Life doesn’t grade on a curve or hand out Participation Trophies. Tough luck if you were brought up spoiled and petulant.
Thomas Sowell said the reason for anti-semitism is that Jews need to fail ! They are hated as triggered by envy. So, the woke crowd will accept anti-semitism in various forms and support Hamas even though ironically these fanatics are intensely anti-LGBTQ.
Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 27 2023 15:50 utc | 149
The Israeli Genocide Forces moved the Rave of young graduates to between their military base and the planned Hamas breakthrough point. That means that Netanyahu planned to create a massacre of Kibbutzim, Female operators of CCTV next to the fence, Ravers, Rescuers and Israeli civilians.
The purpose of that waste create a narrative of terror, which Netanyahu instantly said declared to be a war.
Wars are the only means for legally taking territory. Thus Netanyahu converted a pre-known minor incursion into a pathetic excuse for carpet bombing Gaza and terrorising West Bank Palestinians.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 27 2023 15:13 utc | 142
Well, I agree with you on this! The whole rave thing seemed suspicious to me from the start. I wonder how many actual Hamas in uniform were even at the rave. They may have been using the nearby road. In the actual rave footage you never seen anyone in uniform and the Hamas people wear uniforms.
Posted by: pq | Nov 27 2023 15:52 utc | 150
Posted by: pq | Nov 27 2023 15:46 utc | 146
I would agree with what I presume to be Giyane’s intention in use of “sheltered”: an accurate assessment of the position of a private citizen in the West (or generally anywhere really) as an observer and reader of world events. Such a view of the practical realities reflects a sober and thoughtful mind imho. To deny this state of affair can at most afford a thoughtful view of matters ignoring the fact of the lack of complete and accurate information.
Posted by: robinthehood | Nov 27 2023 15:53 utc | 151
Posted by: ld | Nov 27 2023 13:53 utc | 131
he’s honest. i believe him. i don’t think he meant “I am not allowed to write about”.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 27 2023 16:15 utc | 152
On a different subject: perhaps some barflies have any information about the whereabouts of the 1.000-strong fleet that was supposed to sail 23/11 from Bodrum, Turkey towards Ashdod? Mentions about it in the international press (both East & West) have disappeared w/o a trace. Perhaps it was halted to facilitate the 4-day truce. Or perhaps …
Posted by: Memory Man | Nov 27 2023 9:56 utc | 119
Actually there has been a flood of Turkish ships toward Occupied Palestine. They go to the port city of Haifa and unload fruits and vegetables to compensate for the missing delivery from various Kibbutz near Gaza, close to Lebanese border and on Golan heights. Some of Turkish merchants and greenhouse farmers are making very good money since 10/7.
While Yemeni Ansarollah keep the pressure in Bab-al-Mandab, Turkey has advanced to the most vital actor to provide a lifeline for the Zionist Apartheid regime when it comes to oil and food supply.
Posted by: Framarz | Nov 27 2023 16:37 utc | 153
Giyane is not alone in his thinking. He is as close to an Arab perspective as I can find on MOA, which makes him very valuable and way ahead of the curve, particularly on the Palestinian topic. However, the Muslim Arab view is often not complimentary on Turkey; particularly with regards to Turkey’s decision to abolish the Caliph in the 1920s. I found a fairly scholarly analysis of this schizm here “The Thinking Muslim” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAEYDe7EP88
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 27 2023 16:44 utc | 154
I have never got a firm grip on Elon Musk. However, today him meeting with Netanyahu has convinced me that he is , “controlled opposition.”
His ‘defense’ of ‘free speech’ is but Kabuki theatre in my opinion.
Mediator Qatar said on Monday a deal had been reached to extend a truce between Israeli and Hamas forces in Gaza by two days, continuing a pause in seven weeks of warfare that has killed thousands and laid waste to the Palestinian enclave.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 27 2023 17:19 utc | 156
… Israel is full of demonic characters.
Posted by: pq | Nov 25 2023 21:44 utc | 36
for example – https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4WmzPgdOtRk/TAuWMUPIKPI/AAAAAAAAATY/w1ojMoHBv9s/s1600/Lovely+people.jpg
Didn’t Jesus cast out demons into a herd of swine who then jumped off a cliff. The pigs above need to find a cliff.
Israel is a frankenstein state that needs to be put down.
re:Gilbert Doctorow’s latest piece:
Three hundred thousand Israelis have fled abroad since 7 October
Posted by: tawharanui | Nov 27 2023 10:03 utc | 122
When 7 October happened, I was saying to those around me, 300000 brave jews will have left already – it happens every time things get “hot” in that “shitty little Middle Eastern country Israel”.
Tawharanui, is Doctorow worth following (you mentioned the 1200 dead innocents claim in a previous post)? I’ve always found him underwhelming and somewhat suspicious – a bit like (but in different ways) that fucking bahai Juan Cole who never seemed to deviate much from State Department with regard to Syria.
Posted by: Ново з | Nov 27 2023 17:21 utc | 157
Seer | Nov 27 2023 4:06 utc | 95
*** I would think that Israel’s tax base is taking a huge hit with all those settlers running out of the country. Increased debt load from military spending AND decreased revenues from taxes. I’m thinking that this is the thing that’s going to take down Israel, or at the least it’ll be a substantial part of the equation.***
But won’t their Uncle Sam be extorting his population to pay for most of it?
Posted by: Cynic | Nov 27 2023 17:25 utc | 158
canuck | Nov 27 2023 16:48 utc | 155
For Musk to get as big as he is, some group must be backing him. Possibly the Zionists, though that could also be a personal bias of his. In the US though, he is a standout who actually makes things that work. Starlink, reusable rockets for spacecraft ect.
He is the one person in the US to watch closely to see which way he is headed. Could be good, could be bad.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 27 2023 17:35 utc | 159
Which reminds of a series of grainy videos the US navy produced some years ago in an attempt to frame Iran for planting mines on commercial ships.
That attempt to frame Iran failed too.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 27 2023 15:46 utc | 148
“We’re an empire now, and we make our own reality…”
AnsarAllah is a saying we just faked a ship rescue down around Yemen, which is to be expected.
All that fakery coming out of Israel too.
I wouldn’t want to be on those ships, no telling what kind of stupid they have in mind for them.
A lot of people are being wised up. Just one lying fiasco after another, and no smooth-taking Obama to make it sound better: “We tortured some folks …” So down to earth he was.
“Pay no attention to the little man behind the curtain.”
I’m sorry I tend to go off the deep end when I start thinking about this.
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 27 2023 17:36 utc | 160
Cynic | Nov 27 2023 17:25 utc | 158
There’s little left in Uncle Sam’s gas tank. US Congress is really dragging its feet on funding to Ukraine and Israel. I would figure that Israel’s budgetary needs are a lot higher than Ukraine’s in which case propping up that failing government is going to be a lot tougher.
Posted by: Seer | Nov 27 2023 17:44 utc | 161
Jonathan W | Nov 27 2023 4:54 utc | 101
*** If evangelicals are worshipping Israel in the hope of converting them to Christianity, so that Jesus can come, why don’t they get it done already? These genocides would not happen without the evangelicals’ support in the US. Half of Gaza now laying waste is also the evangelicals’ fault and I don’t think Jesus is going to be happy with these suckers when he comes. ***
Profits before prophets …. only neoliberal economic cultism allowed nowadays — so of course Jesus would have to be “regime changed” for being suspiciously socialist.
The schofield-type evangelicals worship “Israel” (or rather, ‘the Jews’) in hope of becoming as rich as the top ones are, thanks to being “chosen”.
Incidentally, at the very beginning of the mid 17th century Civil Wars in the UK, the protestant army from Scotland which invaded England regarded itself as also being “chosen” since its controllers claimed to have come to an agreement with, and thus been authorised by, God.
Which allegedly made them exceptional.
Strange thing, though — just as with their Jewish predecessors — there isn’t an officially God-signed copy of that dual party agreement to be found, anywhere.
So there’s only their (massively biased / stuffed with vested interest) word for it.
Posted by: Cynic | Nov 27 2023 17:54 utc | 162
Speaking of making stuff up:
There are at least three mysteries regarding Israel’s handling and intelligence regarding Hamas’s abuse of Shifa Hospital in Gaza which remain unresolved to date after an Israeli withdrawal from the medical center on the eve of the temporary ceasefire.
The mysteries of Hamas’s Shifa Hospital left unresolved – analysis
And here is a nice Indian woman analyzing the situation in Israel:
Not since the founding of Israel in 1948 had Tel Aviv suffered as audacious an assault on its soil as the one carried out by the Palestinian Islamist militant group Hamas on October 7, which was more shocking than the Yom Kippur War of 1973.
The fact that Hamas had planned such a massive assault by land, sea and air and managed to avoid detection points to a massive intelligence failure by Israel.
Israel’s darkest hour could last years
I don’t think she covers everything, but still she has a good handle on it.
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 27 2023 17:56 utc | 163
Jonathan W | Nov 27 2023 5:12 utc | 103
*** Actually the expression is “Christmas is coming up”. It was attenuated and adulterated to “holidays” to accommodate the Jewish hanukah but I don’t think you really want to do that anymore. Israel will enter the picture for feats of the holy innocents a couple of days after Xmas to reeanact Herod’s massacre of the baby boys in Jesus’ time.***
In the UK that “holidays” is nowadays also used to cover a Hindu festival.
Posted by: Cynic | Nov 27 2023 18:01 utc | 164
Letter from Daniel and Emilia (machine translation)
https://t.me/syriankhabar/34968
To the generals (commanders) who have been with us in recent weeks, it seems that we will part ways tomorrow, but I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Because of the supernatural humanity you showed towards my daughter Emilia.
You were like parents to her, you let her into your room whenever she wanted.
She felt that all of you are her friends and not just friends, but her true relatives and friends.
Thank you for being patient in dealing with her and giving her sweets and fruits and everything that was not even available. Children should not be in captivity, but thanks to you and other good people we met along the way, My daughter considered herself a queen in Gaza.
And she generally felt like she was at the center of the universe.
In this long journey, we didn’t even meet a single person, whether ordinary or commander, unless he treated my daughter with kindness and compassion.
I will be forever indebted to you because my daughter left Gaza unharmed.
I will always remember your good behavior despite the difficult conditions you were in and the heavy losses and casualties in Gaza.
I wish we could be good friends in this world.
I wish you all good health.
Health and love to you and your families.
Thanks a lot.
Daniel and Emilia
Posted by: Framarz | Nov 27 2023 18:09 utc | 165
@retroflecks — 120
Come on now. Why do people who have no real knowledge of the Bible always feel comfortable commenting on it?
The “Wisdom of Solomon” is LITERALLY the opposite of the atrocities that are occurring now.
Cutting a baby in half was clearly insane and ridiculous. That is exactly why Solomon proposed it. So the woman who refused to do so, and actually give up her child, clearly was the real mother and Solomon granted her her child.
Posted by: Johnny | Nov 27 2023 18:16 utc | 166
One other thing, Israel is losing the PR war because they are carpet bombing children and women. Killing them in mass numbers. And our lying scumbag governments can’t hide it from us anymore because of the internet. It has nothing to do with Hamas being more media adept or the slowness of their hasbara.
Nobody is buying the Jew propaganda anymore. I laughed heartily when I heard the 40 beheaded babies story. Come on man… Give me a break. Why not make it 6 million beheaded babies??!! Yeah, the lies and the spells are being broken realtime.
Say, didn’t Anne Frank survive several “death camps” and ended up dying of Typhus after spending six months in a German HOSPITAL?? I tell you, for all their famous efficiency and competence, the Germans really did suck at running these “camps of death”. Didn’t anyone teach the Germans that a bullet worked really quickly, much better than shuffling a sickly patient from camp to camp to HOSPITAL? Whatever were those evil Germans thinking??!!
Weird. lol.
Posted by: Johnny | Nov 27 2023 18:27 utc | 167
presumably IDF will be closely interviewing returning hostages in order to identify places where they were held. …..gamble is that the 4 days plus 2 more being discussed might be enough time also for the places to be vacated and the “keepers” moved on…………
Posted by: Jo | Nov 27 2023 18:27 utc | 168
Origin story of Saudi Arabia, unvarnished
Explains a lot why the talk of normalization is a sham distraction and why Saudi and Israel Zionists have always been allies.
Posted by: Delhiliterally | Nov 27 2023 15:40 utc | 146
Load of old bs, conspiratorial theorizing. The British were supporting the Hashemites, not the Saudis, and were shocked to the core when their candidate for ruling Arabia was easily knocked off his perch by Ibn Saud. Ibn Saud succeeded because of his alliance with the US, not because of Britain.
Posted by: laguerre | Nov 27 2023 18:46 utc | 169
NOT SO FAST. THIS WAS PUBLISHED IN SPIKED! REGARDING THE MARCH AGAINST ANTISEMITISM IN LONDON YESTERDAY:
En route to the big March Against Anti-Semitism in London yesterday, there were plenty of reminders of why it was so sorely needed. Walking to the Royal Courts of Justice – where the march set off around 2pm, delayed because of the swelling crowd – I spotted at least three defaced hostage posters, bearing the names and faces of the Israelis snatched and taken to Gaza during the pogrom on 7 October. In a crowded field, the routine ripping-down of these posters, these plaintive reminders not to forget the terrified, kidnapped innocents, has been among the more disturbing examples of the casual anti-Semitism that has burst out into the open these past seven weeks. Calling out Jew hatred apparently irks the Jew haters no end.
On that score, yesterday will have left them seething. Tens of thousands of marchers showed up – Jews and non-Jews, united against anti-Semitism. The organisers, the Campaign Against Anti-Semitism, say 104,000 people wound their way from the Strand to Parliament Square. Families and friends and family friends jostled to find each other in the unexpectedly huge crowd. ‘Cable Street 1936 – Strand 2023’, read one of the placards, nodding to the last time British Jews and their allies amassed on the streets of London in such large numbers, against Oswald Mosley’s fascists in the East End. But the mood yesterday was as jubilant as it was defiant, with plenty of Jewish humour. ‘Racists, curb your enthusiasm’, was among the most inspired slogans.
Naturally, this good-natured anti-racist march infuriated the anti-racist left. ‘Supporters of a genocide of indigenous Palestinians gather in London and insist that you should feel sorry for them because they’re the real victims’, tweeted one deranged leftist with a depressingly sizeable following. Others dwelled on the very brief appearance by Tommy Robinson, as they tried to paint the march as a magnet for the hard right. Robinson was arrested before the march began – one of only two people arrested yesterday. Novara Media put out a video of his nicking and heavily implied the marchers were fuming about it, all because a couple of people – among a crowd of thousands – could be heard defending him.
In fact, the organisers had told Robinson he wasn’t welcome, but he refused to leave – keen, as ever, to make everything about Tommy Robinson. The police insist his ‘continued presence in the area was likely to cause harassment, alarm and distress to others’. Now, I’d rather the cops didn’t arrest people, no matter how wrongheaded their views, for showing up in a public place where others might not appreciate their presence. But the attempt to tar the march as EDL-adjacent was truly desperate stuff.
Protesters wear flags of Israel on their backs as they march against anti-Semitism on November 26, 2023 in London, England.
Protesters wear flags of Israel on their backs as they march against anti-Semitism on November 26, 2023 in London, England.
The truth is, the March Against Anti-Semitism has shamed the anti-Israel set. And deep down I think they know it. Having spent weeks trying to present those weekly ‘pro-Palestine’ demos – which have been organised by groups with links to Hamas and attended by a staggering array of anti-Semites – as being all about peace and solidarity, yesterday they were confronted with the real deal. Having spent their entire political lives defining themselves as anti-racists and anti-fascists, they were noted by their absence yesterday – as Brits of all faiths and none marched against the fascism of Hamas and the grim re-emergence of the world’s oldest hatred. By contrast, a day before, at their protest on Saturday, someone was arrested for brandishing a swastika.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 27 2023 18:53 utc | 170
https://twitter.com/PsionicPsittacc/status/1728984667075047838
Another video by the same Jewish guy I posted in comment 97. He has a couple other good videos under this video. I am sharing this because I think its very important to give anti-zionist Jews a voice.
As a Muslim I know how scaring it is for Anti-zionist Jews to watch their way of life get hijacked by these zionist terrorists.
As a Muslim living in the west I saw firsthand how the Western medias only showed wahhabi terrorists on the news. Even though the salafi wahhabis make up a small percentage of the population of the Muslim world, but they were the only ones shown on TV to make western populations believe all muslims are like these wahhabis. Of course these wahhabi animals were sponsored by the west. But their false ideological justification came from Saudi Arabia all to cause chaos against countries that stand against the Western/Zionist/Wahhabi project, and also to give America a reason to stay in the Middle East.
I am also seeing how many people in the west put all the blame solely on the zionists as a coping mechanism to shift away the role their own countries have in many of the disasters around the world. This makes them misunderstand the realities of the world we are currently living in.
There were estimated over a million young Israelis who took advantage of their parents’ citizenship and moved to the US, and more Israelis to presumably other countries, before the recent escalation in violence. Presumably their motivation, besides better economic opportunities, includes avoiding military service and personal safety.
Numbers are hard to find since the home countries don’t consider this immigration and don’t keep track of “returning citizens”, and Israel would have a strong incentive not to make such data public if it was being collected.
I expect this number to be climbing rapidly. Furthermore, the recent introduction of visa-free travel to the US will probably also be taken advantage of to avoid military service.
Posted by: Delhiliterally | Nov 27 2023 19:23 utc | 172
The US only became interested in the KSA once oil was discovered and presumably would have cared little at the time who was in control as long as the oil could be developed under terms favorable to them. Their alliance began with the famous meeting between FDR and Saud aboard the warship.
The British, on the other hand, hand a clearly documented relationship with the house of Saud, including the many photos of TE Lawrence, Churchill and Eden with them.
The motivation for the British at the time can only be traced back to protecting the trade route to India which passed by the Hijaz and through the Suez Canal, which includes protecting Israel. As with the Emirates of the Persian Gulf, the British secured such alliances with money, which they had plenty of at the time.
Posted by: Delhiliterally | Nov 27 2023 19:33 utc | 173
Ps the motivation for the British to favor the wahhabi Al Saud and to overthrow the mainstream Hashemi would also extend to keeping the large Muslim population of British India from switching their loyalty to Islamic leadership.
The Al Saud have dutifully avoided assuming such leadership, as can be seen in their lassitude in dealing with Israel’s behavior.
Posted by: Delhiliterally | Nov 27 2023 19:39 utc | 174
Another video by the same Jewish guy I posted in comment 97. He has a couple other good videos under this video. I am sharing this because I think it’s very important to give anti-zionist Jews a voice.
Posted by: Ahmed | Nov 27 2023 19:21 utc | 171
Thank you Ahmed. I couldn’t agree more, and great points made by the young man.
Posted by: KMRIA | Nov 27 2023 19:43 utc | 175
Posted by: pq | Nov 27 2023 9:43 utc | 117
Thank you for your post which sets things right, as far as I am concerned. It also, correctly, sets aside numerous posts that are pure distractions and hinder an informed discussion about relevant issues, which MoA is supposed to foster. Because of the distractions, which drag on and on into every new thread, MoA is sometimes a depressing place to visit.
Posted by: JB | Nov 27 2023 19:57 utc | 176
Re: Isrealis voting with their feet long before Al-Aqsa Storm
Haredim, not Arabs or Iran, are the biggest threat to Israel – opinion
By DAN PERRY Published: JULY 5, 2021
https://m.jpost.com/opinion/haredim-not-arabs-or-iran-are-the-biggest-threat-to-israel-opinion-672968
Posted by: Exile | Nov 27 2023 19:59 utc | 177
I hope they get back to what they once were, sensible, conservative economics
Posted by: bubbles | Nov 26 2023 22:14 utc | 55
Those words don’t belong together how many years of proof do you need ? Nothing but uncensored ideological drivel with no proof whatsoever to back it up.
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Nov 27 2023 20:31 utc | 178
“This means that the fate of Israel rests with the Palestinians. If Israel and the Palestinians find a way to reach peace (or at least defang the conflict), a critical issue that gives the right wing meaning in Israel will disappear.
If they do not, then the Right may never find the courage to break decisively with its haredi flank.
Anyone who cares about Israel surviving therefore has a second reason to yearn for peace.”
Peace with the Palestinians requires the Israelis to give up the fantasy of Greater Israel and honestly concede the Palestinians territory substantial enough for a viable state.
According to this article, the Israelis need this more than anyone else, to save them from themselves. The first step is to vote out extremist fanatics like Netanyahu who refuse to negotiate honestly and make the concessions necessary, and would do everything to derail any such concessions, like he did with Rabin’s.
Posted by: Delhiliterally | Nov 27 2023 20:36 utc | 179
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 27 2023 17:35 utc | 159
Musk is just another billionaire that the flock think are going to save them.
As long as Musk massages their confirmation bias/ ideology they’ll have a wank, just thinking about him all day long.
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Nov 27 2023 20:36 utc | 180
Netanyahu has just given Musk his get-out-of-jail-free card with regard to accusations of antisemitism, and will be expected to use his influence to further Netanyahu’s Israel’s objectives, especially with youth on social media, and with the Saudi and Qatari princes who idolize and bankroll him.
Posted by: Delhiliterally | Nov 27 2023 20:40 utc | 181
one of israels victims
Quds News Network
@QudsNen
Qamar, a young Palestinian girl, was heading to a grocery store in Nusseirat refugee camp in #Gaza when an Israeli airstrike hit the street where she was walking, causing her to lose her leg.
https://twitter.com/QudsNen/status/1729026358896930830
Posted by: brian | Nov 27 2023 21:05 utc | 182
I would think that Israel’s tax base is taking a huge hit with all those settlers running out of the country. Increased debt load from military spending AND decreased revenues from taxes. I’m thinking that this is the thing that’s going to take down Israel, or at the least it’ll be a substantial part of the equation.
Posted by: Seer | Nov 27 2023 4:06 utc | 95
Why ?
In Israel taxes fund nothing. So as per usual it is wishful thinking. The tax payer money myth catches people out everytime. What ? You actually didn’t think Israel was a Eurozone country did you ? Use someone else’s currency like the Euro ?
Nope, last time I checked they issue the Shekel. So that their citizens can get their hands on the Shekel to pay their taxes. Next time you are Over there read a bank note.
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Nov 27 2023 21:14 utc | 183
Posted by: Laura Roslin | Nov 27 2023 14:23 utc | 135
Posted by: canuck | Nov 27 2023 16:48 utc | 155
“I have never got a firm grip on Elon Musk”
You can take the boy out of a “verkrampte” county, but you can’t take the “verkrampte” out of the boy.
Posted by: Menz | Nov 27 2023 21:26 utc | 184
From @JonathanW’s post:
“I spotted at least three defaced hostage posters, bearing the names and faces of the Israelis snatched and taken to Gaza during the pogrom on 7 October…”
Can someone actually tell me what the purpose of these “missing” posters are, except pure propaganda??!! If a child goes missing in Los Angeles, do they put him on a milk carton or put up posters of them in Zaire??
This is such blatant propaganda it is just blowing up in the Jew’s faces. Everyone is sick of their stupid games. I think the posters even have numbers to call if “you have seen the missing” IN NEW YORK. It’s angering EVERYONE who knows there is no well funded machine out there to cry for the THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of Gazan children indiscriminately slaughtered and maimed by Israeli bombs.
Enough of this garbage already. Hamas perhaps killed 6!!! maybe less children in a military operation. The insane bloodlust and maniacal, genocidal statements, rage and actions of the Israelis are truly beyond the pale.
The lack of reflection and self awareness, and just basic human decency and morality, is really something to behold. I hope that the Jews with a conscience are able to somehow dial this back but it is not looking good. 80% Jewish Israeli approval of what is going down in Gaza. Insane.
Posted by: Johnny | Nov 27 2023 21:27 utc | 185
Delhiliterally | Nov 27 2023 19:33 utc | 173
You would be hard pressed to show any connections between Lawrence and ibn Saud- they were on opposite sides in the struggle over the Hijaz and Larence backed the Hashemites.
AS to securing the trade route with India- Britain pretty well owned it, with Sudan and Somaliland in the west and the Aden Protectorate- south Yemen- and crown colony to the east of the Red Sea.
Britain didn’t need Israel for anything, it was a pain in the imperial arse- a source of disputes with the French and, more permanently with the Arab world as a whole. The Balfour Declaration made the British very unpopular in all politically aware Arab circles and far beyond in the muslim world.
And then there was the terrorist war the Israelis declared and fought against Britain, through and after the second world war, blowing up the Kiing David Hotel, executing hostage NCOs, assassinating Lord Moyne, Bernadotte and many lesser officials.
What saved the Israelis from Britain throwing its weight behind the Arabs and fulfilling its mandated duties, to protect the population, were the Zionists in the Labour Party (Crossman for example) the lobby in the US- Biden Mark 1 aka Truman running for election in a very tight race in 1948- and the Czechs, encouraged by Stalin, pouring munitions into the Haganah’s bloody arms.
Posted by: bevin | Nov 27 2023 21:36 utc | 186
Some complain when they do
Posted by: bubbles | Nov 26 2023 22:55 utc | 64
Piotr was not complaining about the fact that they covered it but how: most people will never read past the headlines and according to the headlines, we only learn that there is a little “reshaping” going on after Oct 7.
Posted by: pq | Nov 27 2023 9:11 utc | 114
Yeah I re read that earlier and realized I hadn’t taken time to fully absorb intent before responding. My bad. Apologies to Piotr.
My point does however apply in some other cases.
Some many other cases, the problem Western MSM has created for itself is it being so shamefully unreliable so often, that when they do write articles absent bias, it’s often dismissed out of hand by many based on their own past practices.
Western nations are now playing defense due to arrogance and mistakes. Statesmanship, apparently, left the building.
Europe is a Garden..
Posted by: bubbles | Nov 27 2023 21:43 utc | 187
Joseph Trumpeldor
David Green (ben Gurion)
Le’ev Jabotinsky
Betar
Zion Mule Team
Jewish Legion
Curiosity about the origins of the Betar youth movement led my on a very enlightening click=trail through Wikipedia regarding the aggressive role of Russian Jews in Palestine before WW1.
The Trumpeldor and Jewish Legion entries are particularly interesting. The list of members of the Jewish Legion is amazing. It includes the sculptor Jacob Epstein and James Rothschild, among many others and spawned most of the founders of Israel in one way or another.
It certainly is too bad that the Jewish genocide of WW2 occurred. But it was basically ancillary to the drive to create a Jewish ethnic state in Palestine. A booster.Hostililties against the local people and kibbutzim established on Pal land had been initiated at least a generation earlier.
A lot of other Jewish gangs were founded in Palestine before the big three of the Irgun, the Stern Gang, and the Haganah. Why did these Jewish settlers need gangs to protect them? Because they were advancing into Bedouin and Arab areas and squatting on land belonging to these groups, instead of purchasing property in cities from Arabs, and joining preexisting jewish communities. The Zionists were a hostile alien group.
One source for the Trumpeldor entry is:
Anita Shapira, Land and Power: The Zionist Resort to Force, 1881–1948, Stanford University Press, 1992.
Re Trumpeldor (note mention of Eretz Yisrael):
“In June 1917, Trumpeldor returned to Russia in order to convince the Provisional Government to form a Jewish regiment in the Russian army. According to his plan, the regiment would break through the Turkish front in the Caucasus to Eretz Yisrael. Additionally he organised Jews to defend themselves and established the HeHalutz in Russia, a youth organization that prepared immigrants for aliyah, and returned to Palestine himself.”
So, it looks like a lot of the Zionist fanatics were Russian Jews. Stupidly the British accepted their services (and those of other nationality Zionists) to try to wrest Palestine from the Ottomans.
Bottom line:
The idea that the Israelis should now “give” enough land to the Pals for a state, even if the Zionists retain 75% of Palestine, is IMHO absurd. The historical record is absolutely clear that Zionists infiltrated Palestine at a time of local upheaval while the Pals and other Arabs were being tossed back and forth like marbles by the British and the French with their illegal invented “mandates.”
It is worth noting the position of Gertrude Bell, one of the most influential Britons on the ground in SW Asia before and after WW1:
“Against the wishes of the Arab-sympathetic Bell, the British would eventually decide to keep the British Mandate for Palestine to be run directly by themselves, rather than make it part of Transjordan. Bell opposed the Zionist movement; she wrote that she regarded the Balfour Declaration with “the deepest mistrust” and that “It’s like a nightmare in which you foresee all the horrible things which are going to happen and can’t stretch out your hand to prevent them”.[85] In a letter to her mother she described the Balfour Declaration as “a wholly artificial scheme divorced from all relation to facts and I wish it the ill-success it deserves”.[86]”
Bell was of course right.
The only just outcome is to eject all of the Europeans from SW Asia. I hope the BRICS eventually can accomplish that.
Posted by: Jane | Nov 27 2023 21:46 utc | 188
Jonathan W | Nov 27 2023 18:53 utc | 170
Arrant rubbish-even by the standards that you set. An apologia for genocide, as was the march against antisemitism organised by the well financed front that brought Corbyn down.
The truth is that there is very little anti-semitism in the UK, much less than there was in the sixties and seventies when the fag end of Mosleyism still glowed in the gutter.
On the other hand equate the cause of protecting Jews from hatred with the cause of bombing Gaza at will, lynching Palestinians in the West Bank, another nakba and a genocide of women, children and medical personnel. And it won’t be long before you, and your mates, revive the antisemitism which Zionists feed on.
Sincere anti-racists do not march behind the banners of a state acting as Israel is now and has been for senty five years.
Posted by: bevin | Nov 27 2023 21:46 utc | 189
Bevin @ 186
” Czechs, encouraged by Stalin, pouring munitions into the Haganah’s bloody arms.”
Do you mean after WW2?
I am not connecting the dots here. Couldn’t Stalin just order the Czechs to send weapons to the Haganah?
What would be Stalin’s interest in arming the Haganah?
Just to spit in Britain’s eye?
Or, to create a place to send the USSR’s Jews?
Posted by: Jane | Nov 27 2023 21:51 utc | 190
“The Islamic leveling effect of rejecting interest (finance), mandatory charity, and large families (polygyny) work against the interests of the corrupt and self-serving.”
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 26 2023 17:10 utc | 18
” mandatory charity ” The perfect two words for a totalitarian state.
Why Bubbles above who’s conservative economics introduced wall to wall charity porn on our TV sets 24/7 and 7 days a week. You can’t watch anything on TV without some charity porn appearing during the breaks. It is endless all that is missing is Charles Dickens.
Let’s talk about charity and conservative economics.
1. Where DO YOU get the money from that you then give to charity LoveDonbass ?
( clue read a bank note ) you get it directly from the government.
2. When you give the charity the money you got directly from the state. Does it cause inflation ? Does the charity cause inflation when it spends on what it needs LoveDonbass?
No ?
3. Good . Step out of the way then and stop being the middleman between government spending and Charity. You don’t need to be a middleman never mind a MANDATORY middleman.
4. When the government gives YOU the money to then pass onto a charity that doesn’t cause inflation when it spends. Then the government can very clearly leave you out of the equation and fund the charity directly. Simply by asking the central bank to credit the charity bank account. With as many zero’s as it likes.
Charity, just hides the truth about money. Plays into all the lies and myths around money. Promotes the tax payer money myth. Works FOR the interests of the corrupt and self-serving. Works for the liars and the theives.
” mandatory charity ” The perfect two words for a totalitarian state.
I would rather you marched on your government and demanded they funded cancer research, dogs for the blind, children hospitals, lifeboats ( fill in the blanks of what other charity porn have I seen under the heading of conservative economics on my TV every night of the week).
Rather than merely act as a middleman LoveDonbass between government and the charity. That actively promotes all the propaganda and myths around money. It makes you an accessory to the crime.
I used to be like you before I understood money. Gave as much as I could to charity, under the belief that the government has run out of money. Or everybody’s taxes would have to rise to fund cancer research. Blah, blah, blah, blah. All the usual bull shit preached from the pulpit.
Now they don’t get a single penny from me. There’s no way I am being an accessory to turning society into a Dickens novel. Never mind bloody mandatory committing that crime. When governments could easily fund all of it.
Stand with a placard outside the Whitehouse – cancer research instead arms for Israel. Taxes don’t need to rise.
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Nov 27 2023 21:54 utc | 191
You can take the boy out of a “verkrampte” county, but you can’t take the “verkrampte” out of the boy.
Posted by: Menz | Nov 27 2023 21:26 utc | 184
Seems he’s not supporting Israeli apartheid so what did you mean to convey?
Posted by: bubbles | Nov 27 2023 22:04 utc | 192
Stand with a placard outside the Whitehouse – cancer research instead arms for Israel. Taxes don’t need to rise.
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Nov 27 2023 21:54 utc | 191
Yeah, and see where that gets you mate. Conservative economics is rather simple really, as in don’t spend what you don’t got, as to do so is a certain path to loss of Sovereignty and a small say in the destiny your country .
Debt equals control and subservience. Not like that’s some great revelation
Posted by: bubbles | Nov 27 2023 22:17 utc | 193
I would highly recommend Zionism in the Age of Dictators by Leni Brenner. I am sure many of you are familiar with it. The much esteemed and missed Jen of times past mentioned it.
Here is a pdf.
Zionism in the Age of Dictators
Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 27 2023 22:46 utc | 195
Czechoslovakia started sending weapons to the Jews of Palestine before the coup de Prague that made Czechoslovakia a Communist dictatorship. The policy was started by the previous, multiparty Czechoslovak government.
Posted by: Lysias | Nov 27 2023 22:53 utc | 196
What saved the Israelis from Britain throwing its weight behind the Arabs and fulfilling its mandated duties, to protect the population, were the Zionists in the Labour Party (Crossman for example) the lobby in the US- Biden Mark 1 aka Truman running for election in a very tight race in 1948- and the Czechs, encouraged by Stalin, pouring munitions into the Haganah’s bloody arms.
Posted by: bevin | Nov 27 2023 21:36 utc | 186
But Socialism is your trade, not history/ historian.. Bit more again than the average novice historian if someone were to ask me.
Posted by: bubbles | Nov 27 2023 22:59 utc | 197
“Conservative economics is rather simple really, as in don’t spend what you don’t got”
Posted by: bubbles | Nov 27 2023 22:17 utc | 193
It’s deranged, as there is no such thing and impossible ffs. Spoken like a typical Tory as if the issuer of currency is like a household.
What makes it even worse is never mind the 24/7 seven days a week charity porn on my TV set. Countryfile is on every Sunday night and nearly EVERYTHING in rural areas is funded by charity. Half a dozen charities on Countryfile every Sunday night on the BBC. Rural areas are full of these bastards with their ” mandatory charity ”
You get some Tory or liberal or left winger lets just call them clowns. From the nearest city with a well paying job actually volunteering to do the work. Fix walking paths, plant trees, build stone dykes, fix hedges. The list of jobs volunteers and charities do in the rural areas are endless.
All on the back of the government has run out of £’s myth, the tax payers money myth. All the usual bullshit from a gold standard, fixed exchange rate world that no longer applies.
That deprived the locals who actually live there, their living wage jobs. The villages eventually hollow out the bank shuts down, the post office closes and they turn these places into ghost towns. Bus routes close as they say they can’t afford public transport because the government has run out of £’s myth, the tax payers money myth. Blah, blah, blah their bullshit is endless. It truly is.
Then these do gooders from the city who deprived locald of jobs by volunteering under the guise of charity. Sweep in and buy second homes on the cheap after depriving them of a livelyhood. Then turn the places into low paid holiday parks. Rent out their second homes on air b and b to tourists in the summer.
It makes my fucking blood boil. Charity and do gooders volunteering. When the government could have provided local jobs and funded all of it using an Index finger and computer keyboard. Just issued the £’s like they always do. Allowed rural communities to work where the live near family and friends. Rather than empty the place.
https://www.elgaronline.com/edcollchap/book/9781802208092/book-part-9781802208092-9.xml
What’s HM Treasury “not got” bubbles – £’s ?
You take the words ideologue and idiot to a whole new different level bubbles. You really do.
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Nov 27 2023 23:00 utc | 198
Just when we were at a loss for words to describe Rishi Sunak demanding obedience to Israeli Genocide, up pops Verkrampte, which appears to mean ‘ highly constipated ‘ or highly inflexible.
In psychological terms , projection of the things we are ashamed of in ourselves on to others gives us psychological relief. It becomes highly stressful for us to be shown how to own our own faults and accept ourselves.
I like the mental.health question: Is a person who flourishes under Hitler mentally well ? We can ask it of Netanyahu now, who seems massively at peace with himself while simultaneously committing horrendous war crimes.
His war crimes are reinforcing his projections. Bliss. These same war crimes committed by Israel are also reinforcing Sunak’s Hindu hatred of Islam. But this clashes with his difficult pretence to being an English Gentleman. He is clearly exasperated that his Islamophobic Verkrampte is incompatible with the Liberal Western values he has learned to mimic.
Looks like it’s not just Huw Edwardes who is heading for the Mental Recovery Ward over Israeli genocide. So come on you German linguists. Please can you tell us the word for this psychological condition.
When you’re comfort-giving projections clash with your adopted public personality.
What is the medical diagnosis for this?
We urgently need a word for this.
Apart from.fucking nuts.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 27 2023 23:03 utc | 199
199
My preferred terminology for Sunak’s mental confliction is Satanic double-bind, or spiritual trials. God sends psychological conflictions, which we could also call demons , to annoy those who neglect His Praise.
The cure is easy , for those who ask
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 27 2023 23:16 utc | 200