Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 26, 2023

Palestine Open Thread 2023-286

Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.

The current open thread for other issues is here.

Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.

Posted by b on November 26, 2023 at 14:22 UTC | Permalink

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Just for the record Alan Derschowitz supports genocide.

I once worked with an associate that voted for Hillary Clinton.
No matter how much I detailed the history of the actions of this evil entity
I gained no traction. He would always fall back on the same delusion, "She is extremely
intelligent, and don't you think that she has access to information that we don't have?".

That delusion contains two beliefs. One, that intelligence equals desire and actions for the betterment of all -
an intelligent person is a good person. And two, is rather infantile, like blind trusting faith in your mommy,
she knows better - "don't you think that she has access to information that we don't have?".

Alan Derschowitz is the definitive example that demon-strates to us that
the level of intelligence is not related to the level of moral sense.

Here he argues in favor of genocide:
https://dailycaller.com/2023/11/24/opinion-the-hamas-pr-machine-is-ignoring-some-inconvenient-truths-alan-dershowitz/

Alan Derschowitz has conveniently forgotten that in 2009 when the Zionists were pounding Gaza he wrote:

These despicable tactics -- targeting Israeli civilians while hiding behind Palestinian civilians -- can only work against moral democracies that care deeply about minimizing civilian casualties. They never work against amoral nations such as Russia, whose military has few inhibitions against killing civilians among whom enemy combatants are hiding.

Posted by: librul | Nov 26 2023 14:31 utc | 1

Dershowitz is trying for the Julius Steicher prize - most committed hate momgering racist journalist .

Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 14:50 utc | 2

Here he argues in favor of genocide:
https://dailycaller.com/2023/11/24/opinion-the-hamas-pr-machine-is-ignoring-some-inconvenient-truths-alan-dershowitz/

Alan Derschowitz has conveniently forgotten that in 2009 when the Zionists were pounding Gaza he wrote:

Posted by: librul | Nov 26 2023 14:31 utc | 1

But is his argument for genocide generalizable to all ethnic groups though?
I'm fine with an argument for genocide as long as it is non-discriminatory.
If his argument applies to a second Jewish Holocaust then good.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 26 2023 14:56 utc | 3

The esoteric view (put forth by Benjamin Creme & others) that the same barbaric, inhumane energies that fueled Hitler, are now fueling Israel (and western officials who hope for endless wars & Big Lies), is more obvious now than ever. Clearly, it's a contest between those who support the Rule of Law, and those who don't.

High integrity, brilliant military intelligence expert Scott Ritter shares his observations:


Hamas Winning Battle for Gaza, by Scott Ritter

https://www.globalresearch.ca/hamas-winning-battle-gaza-scott-ritter/5841232 (nov 26)
https://sputnikglobe.com/20231123/scott-ritter-hamas-winning-battle-for-gaza-1115160045.html (nov 23)

"...The October 7 attack by Hamas was not a stand-alone operation, but rather part of a strategic plan possessing three main objectives—to put the issue of a Palestinian state back on the front burner of international discourse, to free the thousands of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel, and to compel Israel to cease and desist when it came to its desecration of the Al Aqsa Mosque, Islam’s third holiest place. The October 7 attack, on its own, could not achieve these outcomes. Rather, the October 7 attack was designed to trigger an Israeli response which would create the conditions necessary for Hamas’ objectives to reach fruition. ...

"By inflicting a humiliating defeat on Israel which shattered both the myth of Israeli invincibility (regarding the Israel Defense Forces) and infallibility (regarding Israeli intelligence), and by taking hundreds of Israelis hostage before withdrawing to its underground lair beneath Gaza, Hamas baited a trap for Israel which the government of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu predictably rushed into... "

Posted by: Toby C | Nov 26 2023 15:04 utc | 4

Middle East Eye Reports:

Three Palestinian students in the United States were shot in Vermont on Saturday night, according to SNBC.

The three students have been identified as Hisham Awartani, Kinnan Abdel Hamid and Tahseen Ahmed.

Awartani was reportedly shot in the back, Ahmed in the chest and Abdel Hamid sustained minor wounds.

Family members say that it is a hate crime, amid a surge in violence against those expressing support for Palestine.

Basil Awartani, the cousin of Hisham Awartani, said he was shot in the back "while walking with his friends in Burlington for simply wearing kuffiyehs and speaking Arabic".

"Dangerous preformative rhetoric from US pundits and politicians as well as constant dehumanisation of Palestinians has a real life cost," he added.

Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 15:15 utc | 5

Posted by: librul | Nov 26 2023 14:31 utc | 1

So true. I use the terms “clever” and “wise” to make the same points you just made. The Ivy-league schools and their international equivalents undoubtedly produce many clever people. A clever person might create an incredibly complicated thing, like for example an atomic weapon or a financial instrument of mass destruction. They might clear cut whole forests or blow the tops off mountains at an industrial level. They might remove 90% of the fish population from the oceans. They do these things because it can make them fabulously wealthy and powerful. The opposite of this is a wise person, who may have the ability to do the same things but instead thinks…”these things I CAN do, but SHOULD I”? It’s a whole different level of intelligence.

Posted by: KMRIA | Nov 26 2023 15:17 utc | 6

This following article and interview slipped by me. Nice analysis, he suggests two different historical events where: once the US realized that the Israeli Military was loosing/failing, the US would intervene. He believes that US analysts believe Israel will be unable to win the ground offensive in Gaza. Therefore they’ll have to come up with something to save the Israeli’s from their incompetence. Good read, good listen.

Only Israeli military failure will stop the genocide in Gaza
by Mouin Rabbani, November 12, 2023

https://mondoweiss.net/2023/11/only-israeli-military-failure-will-stop-the-genocide-in-gaza/

And, interview, 1st half of show:
https://archives.kpfa.org/data/20231116-Thu1100.mp3

He expands on his article, some interesting thoughts about US politicians!

Posted by: Kim Sky | Nov 26 2023 15:22 utc | 7

Three Palestinian students in the United States were shot in Vermont on Saturday night, according to SNBC.
Family members say that it is a hate crime, amid a surge in violence against those expressing support for Palestine.

Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 15:15 utc | 5

Pure Anti-Semitism.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 26 2023 15:24 utc | 8

Let us not forget the 6 year old child slaughtered in front of his mother
by a lunatic reacting to sick lies regarding 40 babies.
These propagandists need to be held accountable for that particular death,
always.

Posted by: Not Ewe | Nov 26 2023 15:38 utc | 9

librul @ 1

Dersh's words, from the linked website"
"In his masterful book, “Hitler’s Willing Executioners,” Daniel Goldhagen destroyed that myth and proved conclusively that Hitler and the Nazis had widespread support among ordinary Germans, and that many, if not most, of them were aware of Hitler’s final solution."
++++++++

Dersh dependes on the relative ignorance of Americans regarding the actual history of the Third Reich. He (rightly, unfortunately) assumes that Americans accept the Jewish version of history: that Germans voted for the Final Solution.

For the record, Hitler never actually won a majority of votes in an election in Germany. He was, however, able to seize power in March 1933, and impose a totalitarian state on the German people by means of his far-reaching program of Gleichschaltung, the Nazification of all aspect of German society and the German state. The Germans were the first victims of the Third Reich and the Nazi totalitarian state, both in general terms and in the ;more specific terms of the T4 Program, in which up to 200,000 Germans were eliminated because they were "life unworthy of life."

Dersh's statement is absurd.
Also, his version of "history" has nothing to do with the situation in Gaza except as a pretext/excuse for Israeli's ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Posted by: Jane | Nov 26 2023 15:56 utc | 10

Jane | Nov 26 2023 15:56 utc | 10

Can't be said often enough, thanks.

Posted by: bevin | Nov 26 2023 16:07 utc | 11

Vessel tracking site -

Some details on Israeli owned oil tanker seized by Yemen
https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/details/9725823

Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 16:15 utc | 12

Not all anti-antisemites are equal:

"Tommy Robinson, founder of the English Defence League was escorted away by police as thousands attended a march against anti-Semitism in London.

Police later confirmed a 40-year-old man had been arrested close to the Royal Courts of Justice, from where the demonstration began on Sunday afternoon.

Former prime minister Boris Johnson joined thousands of people for the demonstration, a day after pro-Palestinian crowds also gathered in the capital to demand a ceasefire in the Gaza conflict."

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 26 2023 16:49 utc | 13

Greta Thunberg chanting "Crush Zionism!" https://t.me/myLordBebo/14504

<3

Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 26 2023 16:53 utc | 14

I have wondered about the impotence of Arab/Muslim nations in confronting Israel. We may think that nothing but armed struggle matters and they won't do that (nor even Iran,it seems). So, what can they do?

Recognize a Palestinian state (Gaza,at least) Maybe Spain will do this. Pound away at Israel having nuclear weapons, with Turkey perhaps building their own. Make international declarations about Israeli nukes and don't let the issue drop. Insist on a date by which two states are declared. Explain and delineate how Israel needs to be a multi-ethnic democracy as a solution, not a "Jewish" state.

If Arab unity wasn't an oxymoron, there are things they could do.

Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 26 2023 16:57 utc | 15

Most states have recognized the Palestinian state, even Sweden. It is just that the collective west is for the most part full of shit as if this were an issue.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 26 2023 17:01 utc | 16

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Cut-paste of ads at the website of Houston, Texas, TV station. I drifted on Google from a shooting incident in which three Palestinian students in Burlington, VT were heavily wounded by an unknown assailant. So the conclusion of people placing the ad is that now, more than ever, Israel needs our help. There exist professionals with a fixed conclusion (Now, more than ever...) and "peculiar sense of decency".

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 26 2023 17:07 utc | 17

Arab disunity has been the agenda once the Ottoman Empire lost control.

The Enlightenment West has no intention of returning to a communal, moral, and spiritual model.

The Islamic leveling effect of rejecting interest (finance), mandatory charity, and large families (polygyny) work against the interests of the corrupt and self-serving.

Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 26 2023 17:10 utc | 18

https://thegrayzone.com/2023/11/25/israels-october-7-propaganda-tank-eyewitnesses/

turns out that an Israeli child whose death was used by Israelis as propaganda against Hamas was killed by...the IDF.
what a surprise.

Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 26 2023 17:20 utc | 19

By the way, the Vatican also has recognized the Palestinian state about a decade ago and there is a Palestinian embassy to the Holy See. No sovereign state needs Israel's permission to recognize Palestine and therefore there is no impediment to the so-called two-state solution. Of course that is not the problem but the US is - especially now that the US has drained Europe.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 26 2023 17:25 utc | 20

A Clever trick: anti-semitism only refers to Jews and no one else.

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/does-antisemitic-refer-to-hatred-of-all-semitic-peoples-or-just-jews/

Ironically, Hitler and his predecessors are cited as the authorities. I think the definition needs to be reclaimed.

Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 26 2023 17:44 utc | 21

The impotence of the Arab states can be explained by the fact that the unelected rulers were installed by the west to protect their interests and the state of Israel. They are in power solely by the grace of the western powers, themselves under control by Zionists and their sympathizers, and are aware they can and will be replaced if they step out of line.

Egypt was coopted by bribing Sadat with aid and weapons in return for defending Israel and the Suez Canal, and the 2011 popular revolution was in effect reversed when the resulting elected government was deemed insufficiently friendly to Israel.

Iran's western stooge was reinstalled after a failed revolution in the 1950s and removed by another popular revolution in 1979. The resulting government has been under attack by the Zionists and their sympathizers ever since.

Posted by: Delhiliterally | Nov 26 2023 17:53 utc | 22

It should ever be remembered, Hamas is not the Zionists only target.
The primary target is the Palestinian people and their land.

Hamas is a switcheroo for the Zionists. They argue that they are going after Hamas.
Their primary target is and always has been the Palestinian people and their land,
whom they attacked long before Hamas was ever founded.

Netanyahu in 2019, "if you don't want a Palestinian state then you will support my
funding of Hamas."

Posted by: librul | Nov 26 2023 17:55 utc | 23

Anyone able to find any corroboration
For Rabbi Baruch Rosenblum's story? Is the translation accurate?

https://youtu.be/AvX3cn2OpnA?si=5fC8MFSBB4NbnpkU

Posted by: Delhiliterally | Nov 26 2023 17:57 utc | 24

Clearly some *(1) can easily see the veracity of KMRIA's insightful views and some can't. That the top officials in the US "intelligence community" don't see this (or see it & hide it) IS a totally unacceptable travesty of justice. There is nothing intelligent about supporting genocide, pissing on the rule of law, trying to deceive millions, and standing for endless war backed by endless lies & dirty tricks. It is a massive travesty of justice, much easier for herds of unthinking, gullible people to accept, than it is for the growing millions of people everywhere who recognize that the travesty is like a cancerous tumor, that is promoted as a good, valuable, useful part of our system.

Excellent points, well worth repeating:

So true. I use the terms “clever” and “wise” to make the same points you just made. The Ivy-league schools and their international equivalents undoubtedly produce many clever people. A clever person might create an incredibly complicated thing, like for example an atomic weapon or a financial instrument of mass destruction. They might clear cut whole forests or blow the tops off mountains at an industrial level. They might remove 90% of the fish population from the oceans. They do these things because it can make them fabulously wealthy and powerful. The opposite of this is a wise person, who may have the ability to do the same things but instead thinks…”these things I CAN do, but SHOULD I”? It’s a whole different level of intelligence.

Posted by: KMRIA | Nov 26 2023 15:17 utc | 6


###

Furthermore:

The wise person storms the city of the mighty, and overthrows the stronghold in which they trust.
Proverbs 21:22

Force without wisdom falls of its own weight.
Horace

He gives wisdom to whom He wills, and whoever has been given wisdom has certainly been given much good. And none will remember except those of understanding. Quran 2:269 - 2:270

Wisdom … never closes her school of thought but always opens her doors to those who thirst for the sweet water of discourse, and pouring on them an unstinted stream of undiluted doctrine, persuades them to be drunken with the drunkenness which is soberness itself.
Philo

Tell (for you can) what is it to be wise?
'Tis but to know how little can be known,
To see all other's faults, and feel our own.
Alexander Pope

###
###


"The basic problem of US foreign policy is that it is trying to achieve hegemony in a multipolar world. The US has neither the economic, military, financial, nor technological means to be the world’s hegemon, but is also has no deep national interest in trying to be the world’s hegemon. Yes, the belief by people like Biden that the US is the world’s leader and the “indispensable” nation, is still part of the Washington scene, or I should say the Washington delusion.

Jeffrey Sachs
https://www.jurist.org/features/2023/11/06/there-needs-to-be-a-political-settlement-jeffrey-sachs-on-what-it-will-take-to-end-the-israel-palestine-conflict/
###

The greatest achievement of humanity is not its works of art, science, or technology, but the recognition of its own dysfunction, its own madness... To recognize one’s own insanity, is of course, the arising of sanity, the beginning...
Eckhart Tolle

###
---
*1. Older souls see much more than younger souls and tend be "deep thinkers".
Re: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Reincarnation

Posted by: Toby C | Nov 26 2023 18:08 utc | 25

@Posted by: Toby C | Nov 26 2023 18:08 utc | 25

*1. Older souls see much more than younger souls and tend be "deep thinkers".
Re: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Reincarnation

I would be careful with that one. Old souls can be old because they have not moved on (to sainthood?)
as they are repeat fukups. :-)

And The Devil Himself is an old soul, a very, very ancient soul. Lost, yet an old soul.

Posted by: librul | Nov 26 2023 18:19 utc | 26

Update from the Intercept and Press TV: Biden/Blinken, stung by Department of State push back re US responsibility for high war crimes and misdemeanors in Gaza, have included in the supplemental budget being presented to the Senate (was passed in the house last month with no press coverage) the following: Allow Israel unfettered access to the War Reserve Stockpile Allies - Israel. Thus, WRSA becomes an unmonitored pass through for any and all weaponry that Biden and Blinken choose to send. Including gravity bombs, prohibited cluster bombs, the possibilities are unconstrained. All State Department review processes which are required by law are obviated. No public disclosure is allowed. De facto includes unlimited funding for Israeli aggression, again bypassing Congressional authority. (Remember funding for both Israel and Ukraine were omitted in house funding approval in house stop gap bill). Israel, has unilaterally and illegally declared all out war on an occupied country which they have purposefully left without levels of armament similar to theirs. Currently, they have been referred the ICC by South Africa and are in the process of being charged under the Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of the crime of Genocide, which passes through the UN General Assembly, not the Security Council. By this stealth act, Biden has rendered the US fully, legally at war with Gaza on behalf of Israel, while evading the War Powers act which requires congressional approval. Making the US fully and legally complicit in the ongoing genocide of Gaza. The international repercussions will be slow in coming but will be severe and long lasting.

Posted by: abierno | Nov 26 2023 18:26 utc | 27

Semantics only... imo, "old soul" means someone who has put away foolish, childish things regardless of whether
they're religious or not. They have become "adults" in a deeper sense of the word and recognize madness where ever it
shows it's face.


I would be careful with that one. Old souls can be old because they have not moved on (to sainthood?)
as they are repeat fukups. :-)

And The Devil Himself is an old soul, a very, very ancient soul. Lost, yet an old soul.

Posted by: librul | Nov 26 2023 18:19 utc | 26

Posted by: Toby C | Nov 26 2023 18:32 utc | 28

Biden has scheduled phone call with Netanyahu today. Resumption of Israel's military assault on Gaza will likely be main topic. Indications are that strong pressure will be applied to continue the prisoner exchanges and ceasefire. Otherwise, a resumption of full-scale bombing ensures massive Palestinian casualties, multiple times the already horrific scale. The political cost of green lighting that is too much for Israel's sponsors - at least one would think.


Middle East Eye:

A source close to Hamas said on Sunday that the group was willing to extend the current truce with Israel in Gaza for two to four days beyond its initial expiry on Monday. "Hamas informed the mediators that the resistance movements were willing to extend the current truce by two to four days. The resistance believes it is possible to ensure the release of 20 to 40 Israeli prisoners," the source told AFP, referring to hostages seized in the 7 October attacks.

...

"US President Joe Biden on Sunday said a four-year-old American hostage has been released in Gaza and that he hopes a pause in fighting between Israel and Hamas fighters can continue to exchange prisoners."


Posted by: jayc | Nov 26 2023 18:32 utc | 29

exile @5

"Middle East Eye Reports:

Three Palestinian students in the United States were shot in Vermont on Saturday night, according to SNBC."

All of this crap, Ukraine and Gaza and West Bank and US bellicosity worldwide speak SO MUCH MORE LOUDLY about our American Nazi selves than it does of Other. Even the Israelis shooting up Palestinians in the West Bank or throwing Muslims out of mosques so the Jews can have dance parties, pales in comparison to those of us supporting and encouraging these acts. I'm Buddhist for 50+ years, but every now and then a little bit of traditional Roman Catholic comes through....

And of course our system is rigged so no one can even speak against it.

It leaves me nauseous amd physically sick. Part of me wants my pound of flesh.

What are the odds those students can get licences to carry? Probably zero in Vermont. Imagine that.

Sadly, this is what declining EROEI looks like. It's not going to get any better but will spread - if it hasn't already Vermont - to all levels of society.

Posted by: oracle | Nov 26 2023 18:33 utc | 30

Let's play Devil's Advocate for a minute.
Our Exceptional And Indispensable US chums are determined to provoke wars against Russia, China, Iran, North Korea. Maybe all of them simultaneously.
They aren't going to stop until they succeed in doing this.
It can't be avoided.
So bring it on, the more the merrier, the sooner the better.
Let's see what you've got.
Let's see what happens when you try it on with people who can fight back.
Let's see how your army of gays, trannies, wimmin and diversity generals performs when push comes to shove and it gets down and dirty and up close and personal.
There won't be any peace in the world until this happens.
A real war, not the Walter Mitty Hollywood version.

Maybe that is what it will take for these people to finally learn some manners. Uncle Sam needs to be taught a lesson he will never forget, a good hard kick in the balls. Then perhaps he will mend his ways, like the Germans starving and freezing in the rubble of their ruined cities in 1945. Because that's what it will take. Nothing less. Sorry.

Posted by: anon | Nov 26 2023 18:43 utc | 31

Tommy Robinson, founder of the English Defence League was escorted away by police as thousands attended a march against anti-Semitism in London.


Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 26 2023 16:49 utc | 13

ironic given the EDL was a UK-ZioNazi creation and Stephen Yaxley Lennon (aka "Tommy Robinson") was actually invited to the JudeoNazi state to have photos taken with the JudeoNazi Army.

Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 26 2023 18:45 utc | 32

https://twitter.com/MaajidNawaz/status/1721454824850411950

Exhibit A

not a Photoshop

Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 26 2023 18:54 utc | 33

OK, wouldn't expect the London SUNDAY TIMES to call them Palestinian Resistance Fighters, but at least some honesty here for a change and some painfil home-truths for the Zionists:

After 50 days, Israel has lost control of the war

The longer the ceasefire lasts, says Michael Clarke, a visiting professor in defence studies at King’s College London, the greater will be the pressure on the war cabinet in Tel Aviv to keep hostage exchanges going
Michael Clarke Sunday Times 26 November 2023

Binyamin Netanyahu and his war cabinet have failed to come up with a credible political plan for when the fighting ends
The temporary ceasefire and release of hostages and prisoners will come as a welcome relief to people on all sides of the Gaza conflict after 50 vicious days. But despite this positive news, Israel’s handling of the hostage crisis indicates that it is in danger of losing its war.
On day two of the conflict, Israel invoked article 40 of its Basic Law, and declared itself officially at war with Hamas. It could thereby call up reserves. By its own calculations, Israel’s mobilised force of 550,000 is more than 20 times stronger than the 25,000 it credits to Hamas. That is quite a superiority to go to war with.
Despite this Israel has lost control of events. The hostages give Hamas the whip-hand and they are skilled at using it. The Israeli war cabinet puts the recovery of the hostages ahead of its immediate military objectives, and Hamas can be expected to manipulate everyone’s emotions, cavil and nitpick over the details, delay and obfuscate to squeeze the maximum political advantage.

Hamas leaders can see as clearly as the rest of the world that the Israeli war cabinet is bending to pressure from the United States. When President Biden met Binyamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, on October 18, he was evidently sceptical that the best way to free the hostages was to exert maximum military pressure on Hamas.

But when two US citizens were released by Hamas on October 20, the US bought in to the Qataris’ proposal that they could negotiate with Hamas to get a significant number of hostages out — and get some aid convoys in — if there was a temporary ceasefire. The US envoy for the Middle East, Brett McGurk, ran a special cell in Washington that liaised intensively with the office of the Qatari prime minister in Doha to frame and then push the complex package deal that began on Friday morning. The Israeli government was not the most important player in getting this deal done.

Under increasing domestic pressure from Israeli families of the hostages, Netanyahu tried to win back some leverage by offering to extend the ceasefire for a further five days, on condition that 50 more hostages would be released during that time. And Israel published the names of many further Palestinian detainees who could be released if the deal was extended, hoping to bring a bit of corresponding family pressure on to Hamas leaders.

If 100 of the 230 or so hostages held by Hamas are freed after a nine-day ceasefire, that would at least be something to assuage the anger so many Israelis evidently feel with Netanyahu, whose security policy of the past 14 years now lies in ruins.

However many days the ceasefire may last, the Israel Defence Forces (IDF) will use the pause to reposition its forces for the next phase, trying to improve its intelligence picture and re-stocking weapons for another offensive. Hamas will be doing something very similar, while it also works to divert or steal some of the aid — particularly fuel — intended for Palestinian civilians, as it always does.
The longer the ceasefire lasts, the greater will be the pressure on the war cabinet in Tel Aviv to extend it and keep hostage exchanges going. Israel will undoubtedly hold on to its more dangerous Hamas prisoners, to trade against Israeli military personnel held among the hostages, who would probably be the last to be exchanged.

But Hamas are believed to be holding up to 20 hostages with US citizenship as well, and they are likely to hold on to some of them too, keeping Biden on the same hook and helping forestall the IDF’s second phase offensive.
It may, in fact, be very difficult for Israel to move on to the next phase of its military operation. The IDF has achieved most of its military objectives in the northern half of Gaza — at a lower than expected cost of about 70 troops lost.

It claims to have killed about 4,000 Hamas personnel which, in addition to the 1,000 or so that Hamas lost in its initial October 7 attack, may have diminished by about 5,000 its dedicated armed force of some 25,000. But the rest, it must be assumed, having not fought for very long in the north, are hiding in the south of Gaza, even if a certain number might be wounded.

With some two million civilians crowded into the south, the IDF will not be able to sweep in with three or four armoured divisions as it did in the north. It was bad enough then. Despite the Israeli government saying it had dropped 1.5 million leaflets and issued 4.4 million text messages to Palestinians living in the north, telling them to move south before the offensive began, the IDF was still having to invent, day by day, an approach to civilian management as battles raged on.

Its improvised responses when it reached the key al-Shifa hospital were indicative of poor IDF planning for any civilian-centred operations. In the absence of a clear political plan from Tel Aviv, the IDF is still flying blind after 30 days of ground operations.

The IDF’s problems in the south will be far greater. Last week, Palestinians there were advised by the military to move into Mawasi on the extreme corner of the strip — a tiny ex-Bedouin settlement of 14 square kilometres — so the IDF could advance into the urban areas of Khan Yunis and Rafah. UN agencies chiefs pointed out that this was not just deeply undesirable but physically impossible. Faced with a new population density south of Wadi Gaza of about 9,000 people per square kilometre — 40 per cent higher than Greater London — it is barely conceivable that Israel could repeat the relatively open, mechanised infantry push it conducted in the north.

Instead, if combat operations do resume, it is likely the IDF will have to conduct a more indirect campaign from now on, with bombing, special force operations, quick incursions to attack Hamas facilities, and more attempts to get at Hamas leaders such as Yahya Sinwar or Mohammed Deif, who still evade them.

But any renewal of the bombing campaign is likely to cause more international outrage, especially after the brief ceasefire that will have alleviated some of the suffering of Gazan civilians and Israeli hostage families.

The harsh truth for Tel Aviv is that its officially declared war is going wrong in several of the ways the
war cabinet might have feared at the outset if they had thought harder before declaring it. The IDF has undoubtedly undermined Hamas’s operational ability but is a long way from destroying it.

The majority of Hamas terrorists they aim to kill are mixed in with the civilian population in the south. Most of them will probably survive, and Hamas will survive. The IDF always knew that its operations might become protracted, but the war cabinet also knew that the pendulum of global opinion would swing steadily against Israel as civilian suffering mounted and the horrors of the October 7 attacks became more distant.
And now Netanyahu’s operational priorities have been reversed by outside forces.
Instead of pursuing the offensive as quickly as possible — arguing that more hostages were more likely to be saved by cornering Hamas with military might — the offensive is stalled because the rest of the world believes in a negotiated release and a window of opportunity for relief supplies to get through to severely distressed civilians.

Moreover, pushing the population into the south while it devastates the north may turn out to have been a fundamental strategic error on Israel’s part. Netanyahu appears to be rapidly approaching the end of a blind alley where even his single-minded military objective cannot be achieved.
It could have been different. If the bombing policy had been more restrained at the beginning; if Israel had taken a less draconian view of keeping Gaza’s essential infrastructure alive; if the IDF had been tasked to devise a comprehensive humanitarian plan to roll out as it moved into Gazan territory, the military picture might have looked better for Tel Aviv by this stage.

But all that would have depended on Netanyahu and his war cabinet coming up with a credible political plan for “the day after” the fighting — something they have so far been unable to do in the seven weeks since they declared war.

Michael Clarke is visiting professor in defence studies at King’s College London and distinguished fellow at the Royal United Services Institute

Posted by: Geraint ap Iorwerth | Nov 26 2023 19:02 utc | 34

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 26 2023 17:25 utc | 20
By the way, the Vatican also has recognized the Palestinian state about a decade ago and there is a Palestinian embassy to the Holy See.

One of the main reasons why Israel funded Hamas IMHO is to destroy and weaken Al Fatah's large diplomatic presence in the world's nations. Hamas has no diplomatic prescence in Western nations.

Not to say that the two state solution was ever viable. It was a divide and conquor solution. A one state solution should have been forced on them from the beginning. Zionists would never accept that outcome unless the one state is populated by what they consider to be Jews.

Posted by: circumspect | Nov 26 2023 19:19 utc | 35

"What are the odds those students can get licences to carry? Probably zero in Vermont. Imagine that."

Probably is zero, since there is no reason to get one.

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/resources/ccw_reciprocity_map/vt-gun-laws/

Vermont Concealed Carry Gun Laws: CCW & Reciprocity Map ...
Vermont does not require permits to purchase and has no firearms registration. Both open carry and concealed carry are legal without a permit in Vermont. Any person 16 or older (although federal law requires the age to be 18) who can legally possess a firearm is allowed to carry openly or concealed.

Posted by: KeithK | Nov 26 2023 19:26 utc | 36

Palestine Land Website - documents title to property

https://www.plands.org/en/articles-speeches/articles/2019/when-the-denial-bubble-bursts-an-israeli-kibbutz-faces-the-nakba

Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 19:43 utc | 37

The “Arab disunity” thing is a talking point. Doesn’t matter how true or false it is - it is what they want you to say. Similar to how someone (Aleph I think) was saying “even when they tell the truth they are lying”.

Posted by: Rae | Nov 26 2023 19:46 utc | 38

Posted by: KeithK | Nov 26 2023 19:26 utc | 36

Vermont was the first state to have 'constitutional carry' but the truth is that every state used to be a constitutional carry state.

Posted by: ryanggg | Nov 26 2023 19:59 utc | 39

I haven't been following the Palestine threads as much as the UKR ones, maybe already discussed, but anyone have any idea what the Yemenis are up to? It's impossible for me to think they are going rogue or acting wantonly. Iran runs a pretty tight ship, seems to me everyone in the Iran Russia China sphere has been coordinately avoiding the provocations and escalation the USA wants, they are pulling their punches and letting one red line after an other get crossed. It can't be easy but there's definitely discipline behind it.

From what I've seem of Ansarullah they are pretty disciplined, I think the Yemenis are not soloing and are on script not off, attacking the ships isn't inflamed revenge it's a strategic provocation, taking the Eye of Sauron away from Frodo and Sam and putting it on Merry and Pippin, they are forcing the Empire into a battle and in a theater it doesn't want - Yemen, instead of Syria. Maybe Yemen has prepared to do some serious damage to Gulf State oil infrastructure and let the Gulf States and the USA and EU know it. A counter provocation-escalation and coordinated across Iran, Syria, Russia, and likely China.

I don't think Hezbollah, S.Lebanon, Iran are the immediate focus of all of the Israeli and USA provocations, I think it's Syria and specifically to provoke a direct matchup btwn the USA, NATO forces against the Russians to drive them once and for all out of the Middle East. Russia moving into Syria in 2015 and upsetting the neocon plans for the makeover of the Middle East and the redirect of oil and gas through Syria to Europe is what really moved Russia to the top of their shit list. It isn't the main driver to what's happening, that was started in 1997, but it was the last straw, what made them bum-rush the take down of Russia.

Syria is extremely important to the Russians but not existential, i.e. not nuclear. It would be good place for USA/NATO to test themselves against the Russians, and you know the USA navy and air force are dying for a crack at the Russians. An Israeli plane getting shot down would be the casus belli. If the RF is defeated in Syria it would be a very hard blow and just what NATO would need to spur intervention in Ukraine, and maybe just what is needed to revive waning public support for the war.

Just throwing ideas out there, but there's more to the Houthi ship attacks than meets the eye.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 26 2023 20:01 utc | 40

@Toby C | Nov 26 2023 18:08 utc | 25

"The basic problem of US foreign policy is that it is trying to achieve hegemony in a multipolar world. The US has neither the economic, military, financial, nor technological means to be the world’s hegemon, but is also has no deep national interest in trying to be the world’s hegemon. Yes, the belief by people like Biden that the US is the world’s leader and the “indispensable” nation, is still part of the Washington scene, or I should say the Washington delusion.
Jeffrey Sachs

If the USA are an empire, they are a propaganda empire. Repeating, like many do, even here, that they are an empire, that this empire rules over NATO countries etc. are all lies that strengthen the USA. The best allies of the USA are all those who believe the empire propaganda and repeat that.

Posted by: SG | Nov 26 2023 20:07 utc | 41

Only Israeli military failure will stop the genocide in Gaza
by Mouin Rabbani, November 12, 2023

https://mondoweiss.net/2023/11/only-israeli-military-failure-will-stop-the-genocide-in-gaza/
Posted by: Kim Sky | Nov 26 2023 15:22 utc | 7

Thanks. Scary but sounds realistic.

worth emphasizing:

...there is a growing belief that there is a level of death, destruction, and suffering beyond which Western governments will cease or significantly reduce their participation in Israel’s war on the Gaza Strip, as well as their support for its actions.

Yet the supposition reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of how such governments formulate policy. Thus far, Israel has imposed a comprehensive siege on the Gaza Strip, depriving an entire society of all essential supplies except oxygen; razed entire towns and neighborhoods to the ground; and in the space of one month, killed more than 10,000 people and wounded perhaps three times that number, more than a third of them children.

Note: it's actually closer to 20,000 dead between killed and missing.

It has done so as part of a bombing campaign that demonstrably has no legitimate military purpose or objective, and whose transparent purpose is terror, revenge, physical destruction, and the punishment of an entire society. Nor has the bombing campaign degraded the military capabilities of the Palestinian organizations in the Gaza Strip in any meaningful way. By its own count, Israel has killed more UN employees than Palestinian military commanders.

In 2023, for example, U.S. and EU officials began referring for the first time to specific settler pogroms in the West Bank as “terrorism.” Yet they pointedly refrained from stating that Palestinians have a right to defend themselves against terrorism.

What will cause a change in Western policy is Israeli military failure.

Posted by: pq | Nov 26 2023 20:08 utc | 42

LightYearsFromHome | Nov 26 2023 20:01 utc

According to Al Mayadeen, reports of Yemeni capture of an Israeli ship are not what they seem.

"The reports regarding the capture of an Israeli ship in the Gulf of Aden off the Yemeni coast are entirely questionable, Arab sources told Al Mayadeen on Sunday.

Earlier today, Israeli media reported that a group took over an Israeli-affiliated naval vessel that was sailing in the Gulf of Aden, hinting that the operation was carried out by the Yemeni Armed Forces.

Meanwhile, in a report, maritime security organization Ambrey said, "US naval forces are engaged in the situation," which was later also stated by AP, citing a US defense official. However, Al Mayadeen's sources warned against the real intentions behind releasing these reports, stressing that they are either an Israeli fabrication or a ploy to force the deployment of foreign forces."

Posted by: Mexicana | Nov 26 2023 20:16 utc | 43

Insist on a date by which two states are declared. Explain and delineate how Israel needs to be a multi-ethnic democracy as a solution, not a "Jewish" state.

Posted by Eighthman | Nov 26 2023 16:57 utc | 15

I used to be a supporter of a 2-state solution when it was still an option. But the reality of 2023 is this: All the most attractive spots in the Westbank have been occupied by some 700,000 Jewish settlers, leaving only a grid of roads to connect the rest to some kind of skeleton. Of course, all this real estate has never been paid for. To construct a viable Palestinian state, you need some legal pathway for Palestinians to regain their stolen property, and build their own settlements in these places. In short, some of the current settlers need to be evicted, others need to be made to pay for the property they occupied.

My question is, how are you going to implement this, and where do you find and mobilize the political will to stage such a revolution against those 700,000 people who are complicit with their government's land grab and enjoying their new homes.

Don't get me wrong: I share everybody's hunger for fairness and justice, in the face of this Nakba 2.0 that is unfolding before our eyes. But I don't like to be a dreamer, ignoring such facts as the current distribution of military and financial power, as well as soft-power, that will save Israel from any direct repercussions of their criminal policies.

Posted by: grunzt | Nov 26 2023 20:40 utc | 44

grunzt,

Your assumption is the IDF is prevailing militarily. The last 2 months suggests otherwise.

~250,000 Israeli dual citizens voted with their feet since 7.Oct. Maybe they know something we don‘t

Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 21:01 utc | 45

Posted by: Mexicana @ 43

I didn't think of that. Odd that the Yemenis aren't publicly denying it, but then we might never know given crass, debased western media, still odd that the denial isn't on RT, Sputnik, CGTN, Global Times. If the USA is creating a false flag it would need to be revealed to be unwound. A lot of Yemeni lives would be at stake.

But if true it looks like the USA is going to hit everything at once, Syria, Iran, Lebanon/Hezbollah, and Yemen. The final scene in the Godfather, the montage, when Michael settles all old scores, all accounts, striking friends and foes alike to remake and modernize the family business in one stroke, comes to mind.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 26 2023 21:06 utc | 46

Greta Thunberg chanting "Crush Zionism!" https://t.me/myLordBebo/14504

<3

Posted by: Apollyon | Nov 26 2023 16:53 utc | 14

Oh my, surely she will fall out of favour now with the fancy pants division of Western elites.

Personally I never had any problem with her. She is young and full of youthful vigour and I believe climate change is real as I can see it, feel it, year by year. Cause may be arguable, but the reality isn't.

Posted by: bubbles | Nov 26 2023 21:15 utc | 47

Respond to #6. Intelligence alone does not determine ones character. It can be a tool for good or evil.
"Wisdom of Solomon" vs. "Evil Genius"

Posted by: Willow | Nov 26 2023 21:17 utc | 48

@ bubbles | Nov 26 2023 21:15 utc | 47

It’s quite possible that Western elites believe that climate change is real, but it’s certain that they don’t care about it. Wars of expropriation — hardly a carbon-neutral activity — are much more important.

One hardly need mention the spectacular depravity of European “Green” parties in this context.

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 26 2023 21:21 utc | 49

Basil Awartani, the cousin of Hisham Awartani, said he was shot in the back "while walking with his friends in Burlington for simply wearing kuffiyehs and speaking Arabic".

"Dangerous preformative rhetoric from US pundits and politicians as well as constant dehumanisation of Palestinians has a real life cost," he added.

Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 15:15 utc | 5


The West Bank Is Being Reshaped Along With Gaza Post-Oct. 7

"(Bloomberg) -- In the weeks since Oct. 7, Issa Amro has watched as Israeli settlers have entered his community, shot at nearby families and damaged property. He’s erected a fence and barricaded his windows with bricks after men in military uniform broke into his home earlier this month.

“I’m living in a cage now from all directions,” said Amro, a Palestinian activist who advocates the use of nonviolent resistance living in Hebron, a city located in occupied territory of the West Bank. “It’s intimidation day and night.”

The events of Oct. 7, which saw more than 2,000 heavily armed fighters belonging to the Islamic militant group Hamas storm into southern Israel from Gaza and kill 1,200 people, has aggravated a long-standing conflict over the West Bank. Jews living in the swathe of land between Israel and the Jordan River that forms the other Palestinian territory fear that something similar could happen there, and extremists among them have lashed out.

Settlers — who have received hundreds of millions of dollars in state funding toward infrastructure and weapons in recent years — have carried out more than 220 assaults on Palestinian communities since Oct. 7, according to Yesh Din and B’Tselem, two human rights groups documenting attacks in the West Bank. They say that’s included shooting live ammunition, setting homes and olive trees on fire and destroying water pipelines."

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/the-west-bank-is-being-reshaped-along-with-gaza-post-oct-7-1.2003614

Posted by: bubbles | Nov 26 2023 21:23 utc | 50

Israel says it seized ₪5m in Gaza

Israel’s defence ministry announced on Sunday that during the bombardment of Gaza since 7 October, their forces have seized around ₪5m in cash, equivalent to around $1.3m. They also said that they seized Iraqi dinars, Jordanian dinars and US dollars. The money will be “forfeited for the state,” the ministry said. On Saturday, video footage shared online showed an Israeli soldier looting a necklace from a home in Gaza, saying that he will give it to his girlfriend. Palestinians have raised concerns that after being displaced by bombing, Israeli forces have entered their homes and stolen their possessions.

https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/

Posted by: Menz | Nov 26 2023 21:40 utc | 51

When pushed for comment immediately after Oct 7 Hamas attack on Israel and subsequent deaths, UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres got it right, this time. He replied;

'It didn't happen in a vacuum.'

It's long past time to tell the likes of US Senator Chucky Schumer, self proclaimed 'Guardian of Israel in the Senate', to sit down and stfu.

This gaping wound in the side of humanity must be elevated to highest priority for all established mechanisms of the power brokers and a humane and just outcome achieved after all these many years of kicking the can down the road and looking away when Israel engages in yet another series of systematic atrocities.

This is more than just the ugliness you see and read about, it's the quintessential battle for the soul of modern humanity.

Posted by: bubbles | Nov 26 2023 21:48 utc | 52

What are the odds those students can get licences to carry? Probably zero in Vermont. Imagine that.

Sadly, this is what declining EROEI looks like. It's not going to get any better but will spread - if it hasn't already Vermont - to all levels of society.

Posted by: oracle | Nov 26 2023 18:33 utc | 30

As KeithK showed, guns are easily available in Vermont if you're over 16.

Vermont is actually a very safe place to live. The ability to carry may be one reason. As the saying goes, "an armed society is a polite society."

I read two of the Palestinian victims were US citizens, so a gun is available to them any time they want.

Posted by: Michigan Dude | Nov 26 2023 21:56 utc | 53

pq @ 42

What will cause a change in Western policy is Israeli military failure.

The insane over arching slaughter in Gaza was intentional to make sure that no political force or movement in Israel or outside from the west can undo the drive to Biblical or Greater Israel. It was done to create irreconcilable bad blood, to eliminate the gray area of discourse and leave a one dimensional, black and white public space. I keep saying we are not headed towards totalitarianism, we are in it.

Netanyahu kamikaze jumped into the abyss knowing he would drag Israel with it. The USA, London, and Brussels pre-approved. Same with the scorched earth happing in Ukraine - guaranteeing no opening for compromise of any sort, you see that in everything that has happened since Feb 2023, one door after and other being slammed shut, cultural, religious, business, political, diplomatic. At this point any failure, make that setback, of the Israeli military won't lead to any reflection, just more bullshit, more propaganda, more doubling down. At worst the USA and EU will proudly pour in troops to the IDF's aid.

On the global scale the plan underway is to remake the post WW2 order for something new. The old order was very much in the USA's favor so the something new can't be less than total uncontested world dominance. No more Mister Nice Guy, it'll be brutal getting there and brutal when it's done, a fascist world order run out of Washington, London, Brussels and Jerusalem.

Any attempted change in western policy that is not towards that goal will be ignored, subverted, or crushed. Any hinderance or blocking of that will have to come from outside, China and Russia and not from within. The hope is the change will be effected 90% hybrid war and 10% death and destruction rather than the other way around.

Sorry, feeling doomy gloomy today.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 26 2023 22:03 utc | 54


One hardly need mention the spectacular depravity of European “Green” parties in this context.

Posted by: malenkov | Nov 26 2023 21:21 utc | 49


As a once upon a time supporter of Green Parties, I'm aghast at the path some many have taken in recent times. The German version is the worst case scenario. Like a Manchurian candidate with that Baerbum woman at the helm.

Closer to home, the Greens went from Conservative economics and heritage farm advocates to a multiculturalism shtick and fishing for votes on the fringe. It did not end well as their chosen diversity candidate blew up the party because those who wanted to stick to the original script didn't embrace her 4th place party status sucking the same tit vision.

I hope they get back to what they once were, sensible, conservative economics, farmer friendly.

A Port to dock amid the Storm.

Posted by: bubbles | Nov 26 2023 22:14 utc | 55

Grunzt @ 44

" Of course, all this real estate has never been paid for. To construct a viable Palestinian state, you need some legal pathway for Palestinians to regain their stolen property, and build their own settlements in these places. In short, some of the current settlers need to be evicted, others need to be made to pay for the property they occupied.

"My question is, how are you going to implement this, and where do you find and mobilize the political will to stage such a revolution against those 700,000 people who are complicit with "

Easy peasy. Just like it was done in Europe post-1945, when millions of ethnic Germans were expelled from homes and communities they had occupied for hundreds of years or for just a few years (as a result of, say, settling in Polish farms etc. after the expulsion of Poles to Auschwitz and elsewhere).

The Germans didn't get to decide. They were forced to leave.
Likewise the illegal Zionist settlers don't get to call the shots and decide their fate.
They broke the law. They squatted on land owned by Pals.
Chickens now come home to roost.

Per Google:
"12 million expelled
Roughly 12 million expelled ethnic Germans made it to postwar Germany. The 4 million who arrived in East Germany did get some social and economic aid from the Soviet authorities, but saw their political activities tightly limited."

Posted by: Jane | Nov 26 2023 22:24 utc | 56

bubbles @ 55

I remember way back when the German Greens were founded and Petra Kelly was dating a NATO general, I thought, "What a cool NATO general!" Hahaha-ha-ha, what I naive idiot sucker I was! Luckily being an idiot embarrasses me and I struggle against it.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 26 2023 22:25 utc | 57

The West Bank Is Being Reshaped Along With Gaza Post-Oct. 7

"(Bloomberg) -- In the weeks since Oct. 7, Issa Amro has watched as Israeli settlers have entered his community, shot at nearby families and damaged property. [...]
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/the-west-bank-is-being-reshaped-along-with-gaza-post-oct-7-1.2003614

Posted by: bubbles | Nov 26 2023 21:23 utc | 50

It is nice that Bloomberg News paid some attention to the issue, but the chronology is in the prevalent style "history started on the day we decided in started". However, settlers' attacks on Palestinian villages did not start in October, or this year, or this century. And they were never as brazen as with Kahanists in the government in charge of "National Security" (Check Otzma Yehudit and Ben-Gvir). Because of long-planned provocation in the Noble Sanctuary/al-Aqsa early in October, there was a wave of clashes and settlers' pogroms in West Bank, prompting "sages" in charge of IDF to move the bulk of forces stationed near Gaza to the West Bank where they were shielding rampaging settlers. Provocation at Al-Aqsa, settlers' rampages and diversion of IDF created (a) provocation (b) opportunity for Hamas to enter Negev (part of Israel bordering Gaza).

In short, settlers were on "full rampage" in the days immediately preceding October 7, part of the Middle East landscape that National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan hailed a “The Middle East region is quieter today than it has been in two decades.”

The lack of ANY CONCRETE reaction to extremist rampages of Israeli settlers and other increase of abuses in US Administration was an enormous and stupid defect of policy, magnified by blunders after October 7. 14 billions of extra funding, full access to American arsenals, protective screen by American Navy did not position US government well to initiate de-escalation. A small consolation that it will lead to the landslide failure of Democrats in 2024.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 26 2023 22:30 utc | 58

LightYearsFromHome | Nov 26 2023 22:25 utc | 57


Many unanswered questions surround the death of Petra Kelly and her partner.

Posted by: Jane | Nov 26 2023 22:30 utc | 59

Posted by: abierno | Nov 26 2023 18:26 utc | 27

Thank you abierno.
That was some awesome information. Clearly,I need to read the Intercept daily. Very troubling action by Biden. I have wondered for quite a while if maybe Israel has something that they can use to blackmail Biden. He is so incredibly accommodating to them.

Posted by: foggytowers7 | Nov 26 2023 22:44 utc | 60

bubbles @ 55

I remember way back when the German Greens were founded and Petra Kelly was dating a NATO general, I thought, "What a cool NATO general!" Hahaha-ha-ha, what I naive idiot sucker I was! Luckily being an idiot embarrasses me and I struggle against it.

Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 26 2023 22:25 utc | 57

Life is a journey LYFH, and there is so much to take in that sometimes we lose focus on what matters until our betters show their true nature and we see them bare their teeth and the facades of the decency they so often talk about disappears like the morning mist when the afternoon sun takes it away

Posted by: bubbles | Nov 26 2023 22:46 utc | 61

Israel arrested the director of Al-Shifa hospital for allowing the Hamas command centre to operate under the hospital. It says so in the official "explanation". The lying Israel forces do not consider it a problem that no command centre was found. Maybe the director just offered resistance to the actions of the world's most humane army, as the liars put it, in his hospital

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 26 2023 22:48 utc | 62

Toby C 3

Here we are at MoA , which I found a year ago because I followed before blamed Putin for the war in Ukraine.
Scott Ritter's military experience teaches him that Putin had no other option but to fight Nazism and Russophobia.

But when it comes to Palestine , nobody can say Hamas us winning when it has sky-rocketed the genocide against the Palestinians. Russia's SMO still hasn't stopped the Azov Naxi Genocide in Ukraine, but tt hasn't made it worse than it was before so far as I can see.
Maybe I'm partisan . I hope I'm partisan against Nazisn

We now have the entire Western world rabidly supporting Israeli genocide and cheering it on. We have lost our consensus of rationality and the Palestinians have lost the means of survival. How can this be described as winning, except in the idiocy of military senility where armchair Generals replay ancient war games ?

We lost in 1979 when Thatcher came to power itching to kick civilisation back into the dark ages of Feudalism .
The job she set out to do is done.
How is this winning? It is catastrophically and irreversibly
LOSING TO FASCISM.

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 26 2023 22:52 utc | 63

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Nov 26 2023 22:30 utc | 58

Some complain when MSM doesn't come clean and address the fucking horror.

Some complain when they do

Posted by: bubbles | Nov 26 2023 22:55 utc | 64

Just like it was done in Europe post-1945, when millions of ethnic Germans were expelled from homes and communities they had occupied for hundreds of years

Posted by: Jane | Nov 26 2023 22:24 utc | 56

The Germans were driven from their lands by the Red Army, at a time when the world order was being reinvented. Which army is going to enforce the eviction of 700,000 settlers from the West Bank? Some of you barflies seem to be expecting a complete, violent turnover of the political landscape - nothing less will suffice - for as long as Israel is a sovereign state, nobody will take action against the settlers.

Posted by: grunzt | Nov 26 2023 22:58 utc | 65

The Houthis of Yemen are among the few to successfully buck the establishment. They are often impressive in their feats against stronger foes.

Commandeering those ships hits them in the pocketbook. They hate that the most.

Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Nov 26 2023 23:21 utc | 66

63

October 7 is the culmination of the stupiduty of Islamist Fascism ,
Every political power will be countered by an equal.or greater power.
Even in rhe sanctity of Hajj I saw in Arafat no attempt by the Saudi authorities to control the sport of shoving one group against another like a football stadium.

If you're oure going to fight, please don't fight in Hajj. If you're going to fight, please don't fight in an open air prison full.of 3 million innocent civilians.

Having said, the Afghans only managed to kick the US out of Afghanistan by sacrificing innocent civilians, so maybe the Islamists see some wisdom that I am unable to see from.my sheltered existence in England . From now on we will have to resist Western Fascism with same level of sacrifice as the Palestinians and Afghans. The Fascist Western governments have declared war on Western public opinion.

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 26 2023 23:23 utc | 67


So has your country recognized Palestine?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine

Out of 139 countries, mine has not.

some 30+ Nato+ (south korea- australia- canada- armenia- mexico) has not recognized Palestina!!!

Sad, sad
SlavaLira

Posted by: Paul from Norway | Nov 26 2023 23:33 utc | 68

for as long as Israel is a sovereign state, nobody will take action against the settlers.

Posted by: grunzt | Nov 26 2023 22:58 utc | 65

The settlers are well armed by Israel's apartheid government,and are far from omnipotent. Only the backing of the likes of Chuck Schumer in the US Senate empowers the Israeli government led by Benny the butcher to commit crimes against humanity.

Doddering old Joe the Company Man is complicit with Israel's crimes against humanity.

Seems more clear now why anyone who might oppose butchery wasn't allowed to advance in the last US federal election. To elect the leader of the 'Shining City on the Hill"

Posted by: bubbles | Nov 26 2023 23:37 utc | 69

RE:

Palestinians have raised concerns that after being displaced by bombing, Israeli forces have entered their homes and stolen their possessions.

https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/

Posted by: Menz | Nov 26 2023 21:40 utc | 51

"Most of the Jews are thieves."

--David Ben-Gurion

(Quoted in a book review in Ha'aretz. The book in question is in Hebrew and for some strange reason has not been translated into English.)(

Posted by: Outrage Beyond | Nov 26 2023 23:54 utc | 70

Oct 7 felt like a setup. Probably as an excuse to finally finish off the Palestinians and Hezbollah if not Syria too.
The repeated US messages to Iran about not seeking war is in the same vein as Russia/Ukraine conflict.
For whatever reasons, this has backfired.
The Axis of Resistance has not taken the bait.
The US is incapable of hitting Iran, Syria and Hezbollah simultaneously.

Posted by: Suresh | Nov 26 2023 23:57 utc | 71

~250,000 Israeli dual citizens voted with their feet since 7.Oct. Maybe they know something we don‘t

Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 21:01 utc | 45

Last time I checked the figures, 2 weeks ago, they were talking about 500k+.
All the occupied areas vis-a-vis to the Gaza Strip and border of Lebanon (housing most of Kibbutz), where about 80% of Zionist regimes fruit and vegetables came from, are deserted and dead.

After 50 days of genocide, Zionist Army supported by about 5000 Delta Force and SAS mercenaries, has not been able to win and keep even an area about 20 square km. Add to that the fact that they lost about 150 MBT and APC only in North West Gaza. Yes, Zionist Army is a very effective killing machine against civilians but facing enemy fighters in zero distance is above their abilities.

Without US authorities taking charge of everything from politic and trade to security and army, the Zionist Apartheid regime had collapsed several weeks ago.

Many Western politicians criticize Zionist Apartheid regime for not having an "end game plan" for Gaza, while the rest of the world watch AlJazeera and witness "the end of Zionist story" in Palestine.

Posted by: Framarz | Nov 27 2023 0:13 utc | 72

First, Bibi, Blinken and Biden predicted the probability that in any contretemps between a two highly armed belligerents (one rabid and ferocious, the other a 100 ton gorilla) and an iron butterfly, the outcome would be a slam dunk. Predicted outcomes - at best, the obliteration of Gaza and its people; second, a more thorough Nakba with the worst possible outcome being a return to status quo ante. 20,000 - 50,000 lives later, none of those plans is coming to fruition. Despite much practice in hand to hand fighting in close urban quarters, Israeli military does not have the spine to fight in the rubble of Gaza City. Those who have tried, refer to Hamas fighters as "shadows". The preferred strategy is to relentlessly bomb this very small enclave with ever increasing strength and tonnage of bombs, many of which are prohibited munitions - cluster bombs, white phosphorus, bombs which release body decimating shrapnel. On children - from newborn on up, on women of any and all ages, on the sick, the elderly and the infirm. Israel with the full permission of Biden and Blinken are knowingly and fully complicit in myriad violations of international warfare. ... and still the Palestinians are winning, everyday, in the hearts and minds of the Global World.

If China, Russia, the BRICS+ (except India) ASEAN, Saudi Arabia and the RoW have any say in outcome - and they will, 50,000 to 100,000 Palestinian lives have bought representatives of these blocks seats at the table, at horrendous price. The outcome will be decided lawfully - invoking the genocide convention. The issue of property disposition will also be lawful: Around 1858 the Ottoman government registered all property in the empire, and those deeds were regularly updated and exist in an archive in Turkey. A country whose leader has no love for the US, after the unsuccessful July 15, 2016, US-attempted coup which was disrupted by Putin himself warning Erdogan

What Bibi, Biden and Blinken fail to notice is best said - not in geopolitical narrative, but by Peter Gabriel in "Biko":

" You can blow out a candle but you can't blow out a fire;
Once the flames begin to catch, the wind will blow it higher."

Posted by: abierno | Nov 27 2023 0:14 utc | 73

So I find out I have a line of relatives called Jacob, Miriam, etc back to Europe. Confirmed with genetic tests. Ashkenazi. I'll tell you something about Jews. They love money, possessions and they play the long game. One of my relatives stole the equivalent of 8 houses in todays money. He was sent as a convict to Australia with the Irish and people who stole to feed their family. I'm an Australian and my grandfather was a goldminer. Lol. But it killed him. My mother topped the nation in latin, while truant. Jews can be very clever, but flawed. I suspect Netanyahu would kill them all if no one was watching. Hes going after the land. And if he kills his own people thru holding back the army on Oct 7th to get some terror going to justify his over reaction, so be it. Hannibal Doctrine, no problem. As if they didnt see it coming. Hes gone to far this time. There will come a day Israel is isolated. Watch Turkey, Russia and Islamic nations.

Posted by: Jak Jones | Nov 27 2023 0:41 utc | 74

@ Suresh | Nov 26 2023 23:57 utc | 71
re: The US is incapable of hitting Iran, Syria and Hezbollah simultaneously.

and the US is vulnerable in the Persian Gulf area
> 21 military sites in Bay area
> U.S. troops and contractors in the Middle East approximate count according to the latest available data -- total 45,400
> principally Kuwait, Bahrain & Qatar
> 8,000 US airmen at Al Udeid, Qatar, home to the largest U.S. air base in the Middle East
> 7,600 US Navy sailors and 1,200 family members stationed in Bahrain
> 14,000 US Army troops in Kuwait

Posted by: Don Bacon | Nov 27 2023 0:55 utc | 75

Jane59,

In the mid-80's, I had two long conversations with Petra Kelly, each lasting about three hours over supper after the Aschaffenburger Gespraeche. During the last conversation, her significant other - General Gert Bastian - was present and engaged in the conversation. Also present was German General Gerd Schmueckle. This last meeting was at the height of the tensions in the aftermath of the SS-20/Pershing II debates and in the aftermath of Abel Archer. I recall that Miss Kelly asked General Schmuekle who had served with Rommel and who had been on the general staff whether or not Soviet forces would march if given the order. General Schmueke, himself aware of the danger we were in, mostly, ironically from NATO, said that they would indeed march and we would face devastation if not annihilation. That is not the answer which Miss Kelly wanted; but it was an honest answer; and she accepted it. None of us in the small group present at those meetings believe the story of their deaths. We all believed that the BND under orders from the CIA or MI6 killed them. After their deaths, the Green Party morphed into something quite different. I continue to believe that they were murdered.

Posted by: Robert Peters | Nov 27 2023 1:22 utc | 76

So I find out I have a line of relatives called Jacob, Miriam, etc back to Europe. Confirmed with genetic tests. Ashkenazi.

Posted by: Jak Jones | Nov 27 2023 0:41 utc | 74

I don't understand the link between "Jew" and "Ashkenazi".

Noam Chomsky is Ashkenazi. He is quite sure his genetic ancestry is from the Caucasus.
Uri Avneri is Ashkenazi. He wrote an article wherein he stated that none of his ancestors passed through the Middle East while circulating through Europe.

The Ashkenazi are essentially a European subgroup. At which point Ashkenazi became synonymous with "Jew" is a mystery to me.

Some "studies" claim Italians have a substantial amount of Ashkenazi genetics - this while being not generally Jewish.

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 27 2023 1:22 utc | 77

“Biden White House Signals Red Lines to Netanyahu.” The Duran at YouTube 22 minutes today. Big turn of events. From blank check to red lines— how did it happen? The Duran has the story, but it boils down to BRICS sanctioning of Israel now hangiing by a thread with GCC-BRICS-Muslim states cooperation on Gaza thrown in. Biden justifiably scared.

Posted by: Pundita | Nov 27 2023 1:29 utc | 78

Postscript: The Duran didn’t actually say that BRICS sanctioning of Israel is now hanging by a thread — those are my words. But that is what is in effect happening.

Posted by: Pundita | Nov 27 2023 1:35 utc | 79

Postscript 2 — b I hope you can squeeze in listening to the
Duran report I cited above. The biggest news is in the first five minutes. And check out mention of talk about a BRICS peacekeeping force in Gaza! El-Sisi clued Biden about the monumental actions going on at BRICS meetings

Posted by: Pundita | Nov 27 2023 1:51 utc | 80

Robert Peters @76 — Thank you for sharing that.

Posted by: Pundita | Nov 27 2023 1:59 utc | 81

Don Bacon | Nov 27 2023 0:55 utc | 75--

Effectively, every nation containing an Outlaw US Empire military base is a colony with its sovereignty restricted to some degree. We see the immediate effect that has on the Palestine situation as the Empire controlled the neighboring states that would be the enforcers of the various UN Mandates, so nothing happened and the Zionist Project was allowed to continue. In order for any peace/security pact to be made a reality between the Persian Gulf and other West Asian states, the occupying power must be evicted--Indivisible Security cannot have a bad actor within its midst for it to properly function. Yes, the Zionists pose a problem too, but what protects the Zionists? I see only one way to rapidly evict the occupying power, and that's for the local populace to get completely out-of-hand to the point where the local authorities join by doing nothing. There're two nations that will need to use their military to oust the Empire--Iraq and Syria. And eventually the Turks will also need to leave NATO and evict its troops.

The Zionist Zealots are fanatics who now lust after the completion of their Project. But Hamas is more fanatical about stopping the Zionists Project. IMO, Crooke's been trying to tell us that, but perhaps he wanted to see if Hamas could last 2 months and resist enough to force the Zionist ceasefire capitulation. It might be too early to say this, but IMO the Zionist Project is dead, in that the ultimate goal will not be attained--Complete elimination of the Palestinians from Gaza and West Bank. We shall see what happens as the month comes to a close. But within the Hamas tunnels there's light, and I'll wager morale is very high.

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 27 2023 2:04 utc | 82

What are the odds those students can get licences to carry? Probably zero in Vermont. Imagine that.

Posted by: oracle | Nov 26 2023 18:33 utc | 30

Well yeah, Vermont does not issue licenses to carry, because carry has always been allowed there without a license or permit.

Posted by: Snowleopard | Nov 27 2023 2:25 utc | 83

Little Yemen. What a pesky mosquito in a tent. Might seem insignificant but the targeting of vessels at sea is a huge activity. Economic pain, prices rise, usa will be forced to respond. And after starving bombing for a decade we know just like the Palestinians they aren't going away nor submitting. The whole southern Israel import lifelines are now halted , leaving Haifa which just needs choking and its done . Bring on the shlomo to steal the Rf term. Everyday is economic death to the regime that BDS was prevented from doing by aggressive regime

Posted by: Hankster | Nov 27 2023 2:31 utc | 84

Robert Peters @ 76.

Thanks for your comments.

I wish I understood, or recalled, better the historical context of the conversations you describe.

Re the supposed double suicide---perhaps the public, or a portion of the public, has since that time become more skeptical regarding the convenient all-purpose "suicides" of inconvenient public figures and witnesses.

Posted by: Jane | Nov 27 2023 2:35 utc | 85

The more Israel and the MSM says it is a war on Hamas, the less I am inclined to think this is a war on Hamas. This is first and foremost the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians from Israel. Netanyahu”s secondary is to eliminate Hezbollah, which he can only do by getting the US involved. It is not going according to plan because of the international condemnation of Israel, which is forcing the Arab leaders, who don’t care about the Palestinians, to take action against Israel in order to maintain credibility with their populace.

Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 27 2023 2:35 utc | 86

Which army is going to enforce the eviction of 700,000 settlers from the West Bank? Some of you barflies seem to be expecting a complete, violent turnover of the political landscape - nothing less will suffice - for as long as Israel is a sovereign state, nobody will take action against the settlers.
@ grunzt | Nov 26 2023 22:58 utc | 65


That's an obviously good point. Looking at the situation as it is today and has been for 75 years, nobody will take action against the settlers, and Israel as a sovereign state currently exists.

However at any moment things can suddenly change where everything that was in place yesterday is suddenly turned upside down.

Example? The Berlin Wall ... no one, and I mean no one saw that coming. No one. Yet look what transpired with the massive shift in the power balance across the entire world in a few short months and years.

Whole empires collapsed as has happened before in history without any warning.

The day the current power balance shifts, Israel ceases to exist.

THe Settlers will run for their lives leaving everything behind -- just as what happened to the Palestinians in 1947/48.

How many of these scum bag thieving psychopathic settlers and other Zionists and Jews inside the Palestinian land will be massacred or leave their "precious little Israel" forever is anyone's guess. But they will be. It's just human nature.

And the mobs will be screaming "Remember the Gaza Holocaust" as they rip and tear.

It doesn't matter if no can predict exactly when or by who or why. But happen it will.

Because Israel has absolutely no right to exist.

Israel is a crime against Humanity.

Israel will Fall.

One can only hope to live long enough to see it happening in real time.

Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Nov 27 2023 2:41 utc | 87

Israel’s defence ministry announced on Sunday that during the bombardment of Gaza since 7 October, their forces have seized around ₪5m in cash, equivalent to around $1.3m. They also said that they seized Iraqi dinars, Jordanian dinars and US dollars. The money will be “forfeited for the state,” the ministry said. On Saturday, video footage shared online showed an Israeli soldier looting a necklace from a home in Gaza..........
@ Menz | Nov 26 2023 21:40 utc | 51

But they cannot tell you how many Hamas or Islamic Jihad fighters they have killed, wounded or captured since the missile and artillery attacks began and since Israel invaded the Gaza in late October ..... thousands of civilians killed have been counted and estimated, but not one Hamas fighter? :-)

And they cannot show one photo of a dead Hamas fighter in-situ inside Gaza. Not one.

Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Nov 27 2023 2:50 utc | 88

Can we call the Hamas 7 October offensive an "SMO"?

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 27 2023 3:00 utc | 89

..... the illegal Zionist settlers don't get to call the shots and decide their fate.
They broke the law. They squatted on land owned by Pals. Chickens now come home to roost.
@ Jane | Nov 26 2023 22:24 utc | 56


IMO not only the settlers .... all of the Jewish people, whatever their Zionist flavour, who arrived since the 1922 Mandate (and their descendants) are illegal immigrant settlers / squatters on and thieves of Palestinian lands - and all of them must be removed and deported by force if necessary from a new Palestinian State ..... These people are all thieves, criminals and perpetrators of genocide. All are collectively responsible for these crimes against humanity.

- they have no legal moral or ethical right to be where they are right now. Israel has no legal or moral right to exist. It is a crime against humanity and has been since the British Mandate of Palestine began in 1922.

- very difficult to implement, yes, impossible today but one day it will be. #KickThemAllOut

Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Nov 27 2023 3:01 utc | 90

IMO not only the settlers .... all of the Jewish people, whatever their Zionist flavour, who arrived since the 1922 Mandate (and their descendants) are illegal immigrant settlers / squatters on and thieves of Palestinian lands ...

Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Nov 27 2023 3:01 utc | 90

There's a little grey area here: A whole lot of Yemeni Jews were kidnapped as children to be raised as Jewish settlers in Palestine.

They probably needed them to mask the obvious fact that the Jewish occupiers had not the remotest resemblance to the Semitic people of the area so these brownies were brought in to add some colour to the mix.

Repatriate them to Yemen? Or give them a choice to stay and integrate? After war crimes proceedings of course ...

Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 27 2023 3:44 utc | 91

Lavrov's Dog @ 90.
I fervently hope to live to see the day!!

Quite a few well-meaning people (I don't mean at this list, but others) have no real picture of what occurred in Palestine after the Balfour Declaration, especially in the weeks running up to the Nakbah---the attack on and expulsion of the native Palestinians by colonizing Zionists formed into terrorist bands.

This short memoir/article explains a great deal, using the example of just one Palestinian family that had extensive property holdings.

https://www.plands.org/en/articles-speeches/articles/2019/when-the-denial-bubble-bursts-an-israeli-kibbutz-faces-the-nakba

The article's author has made it a life-long project to preserve and compile property-related documents and atlases that show the real Palestine that was violently appropriated and erased by Zionist settlers. Some interesting maps etc. can be seen here:
https://www.plands.org/en/maps-atlases


https://www.plands.org/en/articles-speeches/articles/2019/when-the-denial-bubble-bursts-an-israeli-kibbutz-faces-the-nakba

Posted by: Jane | Nov 27 2023 3:46 utc | 92

Absolutely give them a choice to stay and integrate ... in fact imv all of them could apply to Palestine Govt for an immigrant Visa (after being deemed illegal persona non-grata) and treated according to the law - Character rules apply.

Any and all exceptions would prove the Rule - being none of them should have been allowed in in the first place - that those original acts were all based on indefensible grounds at the time and as such were immoral, unethical and illegal - for Justice to be done, and seen to be done, they must be reversed - and the consequences worked through.

The same as the Nakba must be reversed and all Palestinian Refugees and their descendants must have a Right to Return. And imo the current Property of Israelis/settlers and the Israeli Govt must be seized (Nationalized) by the new Palestine Govt on behalf of those Refugees and where possible returned to them individually or distributed in kind".

These can be done. There are ways to do this. But first the entrained ingrained thinking must be flipped and the balance of power shifted.

I have a Dream! And like the Palestinians and Black South Africans, unending patience. :-)

Cheers

Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Nov 27 2023 3:56 utc | 93

Be like the Irish.

Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Nov 27 2023 3:56 utc | 94

I would think that Israel's tax base is taking a huge hit with all those settlers running out of the country. Increased debt load from military spending AND decreased revenues from taxes. I'm thinking that this is the thing that's going to take down Israel, or at the least it'll be a substantial part of the equation.

Posted by: Seer | Nov 27 2023 4:06 utc | 95

Thanks to PeterAU1 for drawing my attention back to Xi's short BRICS+ Emergency Summit speech. I revisited it when he made his request, and Xi's word choice--must--stuck with me. Given what's transpired since 21 November, I decided to write a short op/ed dealing with it that also includes my comment above to Don, "Xi's Five Musts & Light in Hamas's Tunnels".

Posted by: karlof1 | Nov 27 2023 4:10 utc | 96

For over a year before Hamas’ massive attack on Israel last month, Military Intelligence had detailed information on the group's plan to breach the Gaza border at dozens of points and attack dozens of communities and army posts, defense officials say.

Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 27 2023 4:46 utc | 98

Jane | Nov 27 2023 3:46 utc | 92

Thanks Jane, I am saving many of these things you share, and also passing them on in various ways.

You also posted this the other day?

"...kibbutzim in Nirim, Nir Oz, Magen and Ein Hashloshla. These four kibbutzim were established after the Nakba of 1948 on my land, Al Ma’in, (65,000 dunums — 16,000 acres). Al Ma’in was and is the home of my Abu Sitta family for centuries, now refugees in the Gaza Strip and elsewhere."

I quickly found it on a Map
https://www.plands.org/en/maps-atlases/map-view?mapimage=/maps/beer-sheba-tribal-lands/images/8-BeerSheba-Poster_2022_English-1

LOOK to the East .... Enlarge map .... first look for Abu Al Hussein / Ghawali
The look due West into the next 'tan' region - Al Ma’in is there - the NE of that region!

NOW LOOK AT THIS MAP from Year 1596 - A rare map created from the Ottoman Tax Register of 1596 showing Palestine Localities in that...

https://www.plands.org/en/maps-atlases/maps/palestine-1596

Enlarge the map and Go the same easterly region near today's Gaza ..... there you will see Al Ma’in on the Map

Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Nov 27 2023 4:47 utc | 99

Geraint ap Iorwerth 34

Is it significant that this academic tripe has no inverted commas ?
The breathless urgency of Zionist propaganda from the ' Nest of Spies ' in London , next the Royal Mews and Royal Albert ( who he ? ) Hall, needs no punctuation .

The IGF has achieved none if its goals , in spite of being fully informed and forewarned of the coming operation from its own spies. Hamas taking hostages looks pretty pointless to me when the Nazis have Hannibal , otherwise known as collective suicide, the Masada option.

To kill your own children has never been considered the height of morality in top legal circles , even if for equal opportunities the Nazis are killing Hamas children on an industrial scale.

Posted by: Giyane | Nov 27 2023 4:54 utc | 100

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