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November 25, 2023
Palestine Open Thread 2023-283
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Posted by: anon | Nov 26 2023 0:52 utc | 65
After the CIA helped Lech Walesa with the collapse of Poland, the plaque at Auschwitz was changed.
https://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/17/world/poland-agrees-to-change-auschwitz-tablets.html
After 50 years of deflecting the requests of Jewish groups, the Polish Government has agreed to change the wording on stone tablets at Auschwitz and Birkenau….
The move follows decades of appeals by Jewish groups, who say the current plaques do not fully reflect the suffering of Jews there and focus too heavily on the camp’s non-Jewish victims.
For four decades the estimated number of deaths there had been 4 million of Soviets, Poles, Jews and others. Overnight it was downgraded and the new plaque to 1.5 million, mostly Jews.
Just like that, 2.5 million deaths were disappeared and claimed to be “Commie propaganda”.
The one thing the media conveniently forget to mention is that the official definition of the Holocaust refers specifically to the Nazi-German annihilation of European Jewry during World War II (1939–1945).
Most of Europe was complicit in deporting Jews to their death but there was very little deportation from any Muslim country outside Europe.
This is the exact reason why Western media keep playing the Holocaust card: from guilt. Real anti-semitism is and always has been a European creation .
While I appreciate and follow the intervention of Jewish scholars and journalists on behalf of Palestine they need to do it WITHOUT mentioning the Holocaust. To his credit, Blumenthal is the only one who never mentions the Holocaust in most of his reporting on Palestine but that’s why he is rarely interviewed by mainstream.
When Finklestein says on Piers Morgan, “they have a right to hate”… that does not help the Palesinian resistance. There are better ways to phrase it. It is utterly racist to start any discussion of Palestine by asking the children of Holocaust survivors like Finklestsein aboout their parents experiences. What happened to Finklestein’s parents has NOTHING to do with what a West Bank 10 year old experiences at the hands of the Israeli Genocide Forces.
When have you ever seen a proper interview of a Palestian whose parents are Nakba survivors being asked about their experience of the Nakba?
There is no reason a non Jewish journalist or scholar should not be as authoritative on Palestine but somehow the mainstream only interviews the Jewish ones. Chris Hedges, Vanessa Beeley, Eva Bartlett Asa Winstanley…you will never find these people on mainstream, never Arabic, Muslim or Palestinians.
Posted by: pq | Nov 26 2023 9:25 utc | 101
https://t.me/QudsNen/88249?single
Scenes from the release of the Israeli prisoners in the second batch of the swap deal, which the Palestinian resistance in #Gaza has brokered with #Israel. https://t.me/QudsNen
https://t.me/QudsNen/88237
A video of a young israeli girl bidding farewell with a wave to a Palestinian fighter. #Gaza
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 26 2023 9:28 utc | 102
Ashkenazi Jews exhibit a dominant Iranian (88%˜) and residual Levantine (3%˜) ancestries,
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 26 2023 3:46 utc | 79
That sounds bizarre. How much Iranian % do actual Iranians exhibit?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 26 2023 8:16 utc | 99
++++++
it sounds like exactly what you’d expect given the Khazar origin-story
Posted by: upto | Nov 26 2023 9:45 utc | 103
Lebanese TV reports heavy attacks in West Bank
https://english.almanar.com.lb/1987669
Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 10:01 utc | 104
Some interesting poll results about two-state/one state solution for Palestine in this article in the Palestine Chronicle about what is meant by the slogan ‘From the river to the see Palestine will be free’ :
A relevant excerpt:
The One Democratic State Initiative’s recent “Open Letter to Our Jewish Allies”, which explicitly calls for the dismantling of the settler colony and the establishment of an inclusive, secular, democratic Palestinian state for all of its citizens garnered 14,000 Palestinian signatures in just a few days.
Zionist claims that what Palestinians want between the river and the sea is a genocide of Jews seem to be a projection of their own desires rather than a reflection of Palestinians’.
By refusing to weaponize identity back, the vision for a transition from the “Jewish state” to a state of all its citizens is the fundamental antithesis to Zionism.
To quote Miko Peled, “The calls for justice in all these massive protests are very clear: the state of Israel—not the people of Israel—need to go. ‘Free Palestine’ means a free Democratic Palestine on all historic Palestine.”
full: https://www.palestinechronicle.com/what-exactly-do-we-want-from-the-river-to-the-sea/
Posted by: JB | Nov 26 2023 10:04 utc | 105
An interesting article on Al Mayadeen on the reasons behind the Oct. 7th Hamas operation:
The hidden reasons behind the war on Gaza (Part I)
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 26 2023 10:06 utc | 106
US substantial military support to Israel set to increase, according to The Intercept.
That is just more evidence of US complicity in Israel’s crimes. The evidence is piling up, and the pile is pretty big.
https://theintercept.com/2023/11/25/biden-israel-weapons-stockpile-arms-gaza/
Posted by: JB | Nov 26 2023 10:22 utc | 107
Posted by: JB | Nov 26 2023 10:22 utc | 106
This is a non-paywalled version of the arms list referenced at The Intercept by Ken Klippenstein:
https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/leaked-list-of-weapons-the-us-secretly#:~:text=2%2C000%20Hellfire%20missiles%20for%20Apache,in%20Gaza%20dominate%20the%20war.&text=30mm%20chain%20gun%20ammunition%2C%20also%20for%20Apache%20attack%20helicopters.
That’s before Biden’s immoral request..
• 2,000 Hellfire missiles for Apache attack helicopters. The Lockheed Martin precision-guided Hellfires are being used more and more extensively by Israel now that its ground operations in Gaza dominate the war.
• 30mm chain gun ammunition, also for Apache attack helicopters. General Dynamics manufactures the latest ammunition.
• 57,000 155mm shells for artillery guns
• 400 120mm mortars
• PVS-14 Night Optical Devices
• M141 shoulder-fired bunker-busters, officially “bunker defeat munitions,” the Western equivalent of Hamas RPGs and designed to engage targets at short range. “Bunker buster” as described in the news media is a bit misleading as the munition is used at 250 meter range to attack above-ground fortifications.
• 75 Joint Light Tactical Vehicles, manufactured by Oshkosh Defense.
• 300+ Tamir interceptors, used for Israel’s “Iron Dome” system, and manufactured by Raytheon (RTX) in cooperation with Israel.
Probably explains why we haven’t seen much tube arty and MLRS yet.
Posted by: SOS | Nov 26 2023 10:39 utc | 108
Washington doing its damnest to accelerate bankruptcy.
Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 10:45 utc | 109
Another gem from the article given the list above:
The effect of lifting the restrictions on transfers to Israel — such as eliminating the requirement that the weapons be part of a surplus —
All on the list above is just “surplus”.. oh sorry, this is how it really works:
“By dropping the requirement that such articles be declared excess
Happy Thanksgiving, American schoolkids 😉
Incredible what’s hidden in that short provision of the budget request.
Unconstitutional too as it removes budget authority from Congress.
Posted by: SOS | Nov 26 2023 10:49 utc | 110
In Haaretz today:
Avi Scharf
For over a week, the Israeli Army’s elite Shaldag unit had been operating in Gaza’s main hospital without firing a shot at patients or medical staff. Its purpose was to allow Israeli and foreign journalists to tour Al-Shifa’s compound and see what had been uncovered. Haaretz’s Yaniv Kubovich went inside the Hamas tunnels (read his full report), and says there’s no way the hospital administrators didn’t know what was happening.
A visual analysis of all the videos to emerge shows a 170-meter-long tunnel network, made entirely of reinforced concrete to defend against IDF attacks, replete with power lines – siphoned from the hospital – comms and ventilation equipment, including two rooms, two toilets and a kitchenette, running under the internal medicine ward all the way to nearby streets outside the hospital compound.
“The question of whether Al-Shifa’s managers knew about the tunnels and the munitions that were found is answered the moment you go down into the tunnel.”
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 26 2023 10:59 utc | 111
FO,”Joey” troll.
Posted by: Observer | Nov 25 2023 19:14 utc | 23
The use of obscenity is a sign of a loser and primitive mind. Perhaps ignorant as well as without self control.
Posted by: Joey | Nov 25 2023 19:58 utc | 25
I totally fucking agree.
@Arch Bungle | Nov 26 2023 8:16 utc | 99
That sounds bizarre. How much Iranian % do actual Iranians exhibit?
I like this style of questioning, it “removes the mask” over nonsense.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 26 2023 11:26 utc | 113
Keep in mind the existence of Hamas does not justify Israel’s genocide, nothing does. not tunnels, not nukes, not anything. That is the law; nothing justifies genocide.
Any tunnels are completely irrelevant. Tunnels do not justify bombing a hospital. It is not proportionate thus a war crime.
Without realizing it the zionists keep confessing to and shouting loudly about the war crimes they commit.
Israel is not a jewish state, instead Israel is a zionist crime.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Nov 26 2023 11:32 utc | 114
Observer 23
Emotions are running high.
I’m afraid it’s you that are showing your unconscious, collective-cultural hatred of Arabic. Aql only means intelligence. It doesn’t in itself threaten empire .
Empire narrative is that Muslims are without intelligence. You gotta break free from that Crusader mindset please.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 26 2023 11:38 utc | 115
I like this style of questioning, it “removes the mask” over nonsense.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 26 2023 11:26 utc | 113
I am on occasion capable of civilized discourse.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 26 2023 11:42 utc | 116
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Nov 26 2023 11:32 utc | 114
When Avi Scharf that “for over a week” Israelis did not fire a shot at patients or hospital staff at Al-Shifa, is he not confessing to what happened before then?
“For over a week, the Israeli Army’s elite Shaldag unit had been operating in Gaza’s main hospital without firing a shot at patients or medical staff.”
The hospital would have been open for inspection without all the butchery. Was Israel interested in requesting it to be inspected by anyone?
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 26 2023 11:47 utc | 117
German exhibition shines light on child abduction
https://www.dw.com/en/german-exhibition-shines-light-on-child-abduction/a-67527012
Marcel Fürstenau
November 23, 2023
Authoritarian regimes and dictatorships worldwide have abducted children to coerce, intimidate and punish others. An exhibition in Berlin shines a light on this grim reality.
+++++++
this exhibition actually really shines a light on the nauseating hypocrisy of German society.
not a word in the exhibition concerning the world’s worst child abductor, the JudeoNazi Regime in Israel
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 26 2023 11:56 utc | 118
Jonathan W 118
You left out the bit about the signed copies of Mein Kampf and how awfully grateful all the Palestinians were to their Zionist masters for bombing every hospital and school in existence to rubble and butchering a mere 20,000 of them.
“We will annihilate everybody,” as the charming little Zionist brats sing on national television.
Posted by: anon | Nov 26 2023 12:43 utc | 119
upto 103
It sounds like what you would expect from a people who speak a form of Farsi, mixed with some Jewish blood from the Captivity. Nothing to do with the Khazars.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 26 2023 12:51 utc | 120
“The Israeli army and Shin Bet security service said they arrested Al-Shifa Hospital director, Mohammad Abu-Salmiya on Thursday.”
That has to do with the tunnels underneath, which – as b among others has pointed out- were built by Israel. Still no proof there was a command centre. But the tragicomical here is that the IDF now arrests anyone, the hospital director after the war crimes it has committed. What is the charge? Condoning the tunnels? And Israel would undoubtedly love to punish anyone who as much as suggests that a genocide is being committed by Israel.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 26 2023 13:02 utc | 121
The Israeli girl waving fondly goodbye to her Hamas is very much alive thanks to Hamas spiriting her away from IDF gunships massacring any and all on 7.Oct.
Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 14:00 utc | 122
Lebanese TV reports:
15:58 The “Central Park” oil tanker, owned by Israeli businessman Eyal Ofer, was seized near the coast of Aden
(Comment – seems the blockade announcerd by Yemen a week ago is gaining momentum – 3rd ship so far )
Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 14:10 utc | 123
(Comment – seems the blockade announced by Yemen a week ago is gaining momentum – 3rd ship so far )
Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 14:10 utc | 123
If this gains momentum and tanker owners or insurers in general start to worry about risk they may decide to divert to Europe via the Cape of Good Hope.
If they do it could cause a short term energy crisis in Europe, at a critical time of year, due to the delayed arrival of tankers, both oil and NG, for the extra time (10 days?) of the journey.
The good old Law of Unintended Consequences biting.
Posted by: JohninMK | Nov 26 2023 14:19 utc | 124
That hostage deal is on tenterhooks again, this morning. From MEE:
Israeli forces’ killing of a Palestinian farmer in Gaza on Sunday is starting to cast doubts on the third day of the truce and the prisoner-captive exchange between Israel and Hamas.
There has not yet been any comment from Israel on the killing, however fears are growing that it could jeopardise the third phase of plans to swap captives held in Gaza for Palestinian prisoners.
A senior Palestinian source said that Sunday’s phase looked “complicated”. Asked by Reuters if the farmer’s killing could delay a third batch of releases, the source replied: “I don’t know.”
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 26 2023 14:20 utc | 125
The Houthis did it again, they boarded another Israeli ship.
Maritime insurance carriers must be getting nervous, better check the fine print.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Nov 26 2023 14:53 utc | 126
The Houthis did it again, they boarded another Israeli ship.
Posted by: Ghost of Zanon | Nov 26 2023 14:53 utc | 126
Mazeltov!
Hail to the Fremen! Down with House Harkonnen!
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 26 2023 15:05 utc | 127
OT
Since Ahmadinejad seems to be coming up, again, and again, I can’t find reference to it now, but it stuck in my head when he said it, and I’m paraphrasing: On holocaust, nearly 60 million people died in WWII, why can’t we study the numbers? Why can’t we study this 6 million dead figure? Why is it outlawed in many countries? Nobody said it didn’t happen, but why can’t we study the numbers? The same number was trotted out after WWI but didn’t stick.
Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 26 2023 15:12 utc | 128
@Arch Bungle | Nov 26 2023 8:16 utc | 99
That sounds bizarre. How much Iranian % do actual Iranians exhibit?
I like this style of questioning, it “removes the mask” over nonsense.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 26 2023 11:26 utc | 113
Fake precision, of one thing. And I take it as a rule of thumb that all “genetic studies” of that sort are marketing bullshit or propaganda.
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 26 2023 15:46 utc | 129
Since Ahmadinejad seems to be coming up, again, and again, I can’t find reference to it now, but it stuck in my head when he said it, and I’m paraphrasing: On holocaust, nearly 60 million people died in WWII, why can’t we study the numbers? Why can’t we study this 6 million dead figure? Why is it outlawed in many countries? Nobody said it didn’t happen, but why can’t we study the numbers? …
Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 26 2023 15:12 utc | 128
Ahmadinejad’s government was the first post revolution Iranian Government that officially invited and hosted representatives of Anti-zionist American Jew community during a holocaust conference in Tehran. He tried to initiate a dialog among Iran and progressive Jews around the world about the Palestinian Issue. His efforts were sabotaged by CIA – MI6 fifth column in Tehran’s Bazar and part of theocracy.
His policy of normalization of relations with Saudi Arabia (neutralization of vassals), years before China could utilize it for it’s own regional hegemony in Western Asia, was also sabotaged by Bazar and part of theocracy at that time.
Posted by: Framarz | Nov 26 2023 15:58 utc | 130
Assad must go!!!
Putin must go!!!
Hamas must go!!!
We have had The Curse Of Assad and the Curse Of Putin.
We will soon have the Curse Of Hamas.
Posted by: anon | Nov 26 2023 18:08 utc | 131
Doctor Eleven | Nov 26 2023 7:29 utc | 96
*** It is in a bizarre twist of events those who pursue the Zionist heresy have inherited the methodology of the Nazis. This is plain to any fair minded observer.***
But not “inherited” — simply re-possessed the franchise.
Posted by: Cynic | Nov 26 2023 18:46 utc | 132
upto 103
I know it’s irrelevant in the context of all this tragedy, but thevpoint I was trying to make, without anything other than passing knowledge about genealogy, is that The Captivity by the Babylonians was 2, 600 years ago. Kurdistan area embraced Islam in the form of Judaism , at the hands of prophet Jonah pbuh sometime after that. Then the Jews returned to Jerusalem as a mixed race speaking Babylonian Aramaic , a Semitic language.
But settlers in modern Israel came in the last 100 years, and mostly from a vast diaspora. However a good number came from what is now Iraqi and Iranian Kurdistan where they have lived since the Babylon Captivity.
These Jews have lived in safety under Islam.. The Sorani Kurdish language is related to Farsi.
So.my suggestion is that it would be highly likely that after 1400 years of intermarriage the settlers in Israel from Irani and Iraqi Kurdistan would have a lot of Iranian DNA and a small bit of Jewish. Maybe. Breeding is one of the things humans like doing.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 26 2023 22:26 utc | 133
Voltaire | Nov 26 2023 0:48 utc | 63
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 26 2023
“Whoever describes it as both fiction and fantasy has probably never stepped out of his bedroom to engage with the real world at any point in life.
Blanket dismissals of the book are a sign that one’s brain has been hacked by yet another Zionist mind virus like the one that forces one to involuntarily scream “ANTI -SEMITIC!!!” every time anything vaguely critical of Zionism is expressed.”
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 26 2023 2:52 utc | 75
Wow dem’s fighin’ words! Pushed a button did we? Cleverly expleted I must say. 🙂
Now about the Protocols …. ymmv you may hold to a different interpetation of who wrote them, why they wrote and what thye mean …. but that does not rise to a right to be an abusive jack ass as well. 🙂
Now my interpretation of the Protocols of Zion and all the VERBIAGE about them historically and contemporary is that they are a work of fiction – a fantasy — a load of cobblers shit – made up – crap – rubbish – exquisitely and artfully created attention seeking propaganda or some kind of self-serving delusional lecture by a complete deranged nutcase…. not that different to one of today’s Neocons … that racist narcissistic and psychopathic, yes.
Yes siree, I think it is all fantasy fiction – the equivalent to a RAND Analysis in today’s world – aka the Protocols are totally delusional paranoid horseshite – and more than that, I think it totally obvious that that is what it is.
But each to their own. Believe whatever you want people. Fine by me. You can even call me a complete idiot if that salves your irritations but it still doesn’t change a thing. 🙂
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 27 2023 0:17 utc | 134
Israeli prisoners released by Hamas uniformly report having been very well treated.
The Israeli American spy and traitor, Pollard, has demanded that they be silenced by any means necessary, to stop them undermining the Zionist lies about “six million beheaded babies”, “mass rapes”, “babies cooked in ovens”, etc.
By contrast, the thousands of Palestinians held in Zionist dungeons for years without trial, uniformly report being beaten, starved, raped, both males and females, and subjected to every form of torture and inhuman treatment known to man. One of the prisoners released in the exchange was a 15 year old boy held for 6 years since the age of 9, without charge or any semblance of a judicial process, and consistently mistreated over that time.
They say that you can tell a lot about a country by looking at its prisons.
Posted by: anon | Nov 29 2023 6:32 utc | 135