Palestine Open Thread 2023-283
Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.
The current open thread for other issues is here.
Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Posted by b on November 25, 2023 at 15:53 UTC | Permalink
next page »The Israeli government just loves those kids..their angelic posterchild for the deathvax was ultimately killed by it..
Posted by: pyrrhus | Nov 25 2023 16:20 utc | 2
Khazar's "Genetically Jewish" claim exposed as a complete fraud.
https://twitter.com/SlavFreeSpirit/status/1727782253822927181
Dr. Areilla Oppenheim from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, did the first extensive DNA study in 2001 on Israelis and Palestinians, and concluded that emigrants on ships to Palestine before it became Israel were 40% Mongolian and 40% Turkish.
There was no Semitic blood associated with the original Hebrews of the Middle East 4000 years ago in Jerusalem or the biblical territory.
This was confirmed by another DNA project by dr. Eran Elhaik at the McKusick-Namans Institute for Genetic Medicine at John Hopkins University School of Medicine, 2012. His conclusions were the same!
Ashkenazi (so-called Jews) never migrated from the Middle East!*
At the same time, extensive DNA evidence revealed that the Palestinians were 80% more or less, Semitic blood in their ancestors who were therefore found to be true Israelites.
White Jews whose ancestors boarded ships in 1882 for Palestine before it was named Israel---are not Israelis.
The truth hurts* once again.
These white Eastern European descendants of Germans, Russians, Poles, Austrians, Georgians, etc., are frauds who claim to be God's Chosen, but they are the descendants of the ancient Khazars of the Khazarian Caucus and they have denied this scientific evidence because they have invented myths about their own histories, in which many Americans already believe throughout the century, that is, Schofield's Bible.
Because, the real history of the newly established "Israel in 1947." --'today this is not a secret!*
And Palestinians have been found to be almost more or at least 80% Semitic. The so-called people who are on "the wrong" side of history.
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 25 2023 16:21 utc | 3
Aurelien has written an essay arguing that some geopolitical conflicts are irresolvable, negotiations are ineffective and there is no remedy but to let them dissolve in history. Western Liberal institutions are incapable of acknowledging this fact but here at the bar we might entertain it.
There is a striking symmetry between the zealots on both sides of the Palestine equation. Their motivations stem from a peculiar longing for which there is no political solution. Ardent Muslims long for worldwide Ummah, while Zionists yearn for the establishment of Greater Israel here on earth.
Fighting each other will bring them no closer in this quest since it is the longing itself that counts. You might say that the fighting draws them away and involves both parties in practical matters that are far from their chief interest which is the promotion and indulgence in an eschatological phantasm.
What is needed are the conditions under which both sides could fully enjoy their symptoms. That is why I would put the Ultra-Orthodox faction in charge of the Israeli government and make religious observance compulsory. Take the fire out of the secularists and invest it in studying the Torah—there is ample evidence there that the fate of nations is in the hands of God and not of men.
After all it is far better and more satisfying for everyone involved to dream into eternity than to fight inconclusive battles that bring you no closer to your goal.
Posted by: hicrhodus | Nov 25 2023 16:53 utc | 4
"These white Eastern European descendants of Germans, Russians, Poles, Austrians, Georgians, etc., are frauds who claim to be God's Chosen, but they are the descendants of the ancient Khazars of the Khazarian Caucus and they have denied this scientific evidence because they have invented myths about their own histories, in which many Americans already believe throughout the century, that is, Schofield's Bible."
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 25 2023 16:21 utc | 3
Absolutely; some even believe the Khazars invented Hebrew cause in ancient Israel on their building inscription it is Greek or Aramaic. I don't know enough to form a confident opinion yet it wouldn't shock me.
The irony that many of the Palestinians whom over the years converted from Judaism to Muslim or Christian such that the 'Chosen People" are the ones being bombed.
Butt-hurt Jews are hilarious: middleeasteye!:
https://www.instagram.com/p/C0CZAHOoTgK/?e=0d45ebb4-25b5-4b0b-85fd-fed946304d27&g=5
According to the Palestinian Prisoner Club, which monitors detainees’ affairs, the restrictions given to prisoners and their families include a ban on distributing candy as part of family celebrations.
Additionally, prisoners and their families were forbidden from speaking to the media, holding community gatherings, or displaying any form of celebration.
Any violation of these conditions would result in a 70,000 Israeli shekels ($18,700) fine, according to the Palestinian Prisoner Club.
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 25 2023 17:10 utc | 6
Facebook greenlit ads inciting violence against Palestinians“ (The Cradle):
https://new.thecradle.co/articles/facebook-greenlit-ads-inciting-violence-against-palestinians
The Intercept revealed on 21 November that Facebook has allowed incendiary advertisements that promote violence against Palestinians to appear on its platform; more specifically, several ads calling for a "Holocaust for the Palestinians."
Even though such derogatory phrases are a direct violation of Facebook's policies, ads containing phrases such as "wiping out Gazan women and children" were able to pass through moderation filters
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 25 2023 17:13 utc | 7
DW News is reporting that Hamas has announced the suspension of the hostage swap. If they gave a reason I missed it.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 25 2023 17:16 utc | 8
Along the same line as b's link @ 1, from William Van Wagenen:
Was October 7th a Hamas or Israeli massacre?
https://new.thecradle.co/articles/was-october-7th-a-hamas-or-israeli-massacre
Blumenthal & Grayzone have published very heavily on this subject. I have to say: props to barfly TCQ for energetically pursuing suspicious details of the rave festival massacre, from day one. They're not the only ones, Chris Hedges and many others are familiar with the damage a hellfire missile (of which Hamas has none) does to an automobile. That's what happened to any and all cars fleeing the festival, whomsoever might be inside, attacked by IDF Apache helicopters.
The whole world has to know this, even poor Israel & USA. When a kibbutz gets shelled by by a tank, it looks like it. The great pretext, that Hamas savagely slaughtered innocents on October 7, has blown like a dandelion. No matter, the pretext has already, in 50 days, taken seed inciting historic genocide -- the actual purpose behind all the pretextural lies.
God bless Blumenthal for sounding out the perimeters of truth, but his work leaves me wondering: What happens to a purpose as absolute as the scouring of Gaza, once shallow pretexts are exposed as shams? I expect that anyone willing to believe that Gazans are savages, worthy of extermination, will continue searching for the next pretext.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 25 2023 17:17 utc | 9
Oops. I screwed up my reference to Tom Q Collins of MoA, on the rave festival
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 25 2023 17:21 utc | 10
Reuters:
Hamas Delays Second Hostage Release Until Israel Lets Aid Into Northern Gaza
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2023-11-25/hamas-delays-second-release-of-hostages-until-israel-lets-aid-into-northern-gaza
Posted by: jayc | Nov 25 2023 17:24 utc | 11
There was no Semitic blood associated with the original Hebrews of the Middle East 4000 years ago in Jerusalem or the biblical territory.
This was confirmed by another DNA project by dr. Eran Elhaik at the McKusick-Namans Institute for Genetic Medicine at John Hopkins University School of Medicine, 2012. His conclusions were the same!
And Palestinians have been found to be almost more or at least 80% Semitic. The so-called people who are on "the wrong" side of history.
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 25 2023 16:21 utc | 3
Something is wrong with a world where multi-decade genetic studies are required to disprove what a common street urchin can suss out as bullshit with one look
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 25 2023 17:42 utc | 12
https://twitter.com/abierkhatib/status/1728283935023796723
Jfc, CNN is finally doing real journalism y’all (on the release of innocent Palestinian civilians, all women and children, kidnapped by the JudeoNazis and held hostage for years)
The expression on Wolf Blitzer's face says it all
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 25 2023 17:47 utc | 13
Ardent Muslims long for worldwide Ummah, ....
Posted by: hicrhodus | Nov 25 2023 16:53 utc | 4
You are mis-ill informed. No such thing. They want a Caliphate in their own land which will bring freedom from hegemony of the OWO/NWO and peace in their own lands. Freedom from the imposed stooges ruling them. The latter is the primary goal.
FYI 'Ummah' just means community. Every creature on earth has a community.
Posted by: Joey | Nov 25 2023 17:48 utc | 14
If the ceasefire dies, a good barometer for me will be the rapidity and intensity of fire upon Hezbollah in Lebanon. Not that Hezbollah is listening here or to me, I would encourage Hezbollah to refrain from firing first, see what happens. They probably have enough arrows in their quiver.
Limited glance, (working a lot of hours at present again) I do not think the intensity of the repression - near war in the West Bank has subsided that much during the hiatus. I still can not get over tanks going into Ramallah, the present capital of the PLO.
Posted by: paxmark1 | Nov 25 2023 17:50 utc | 15
Something is wrong with a world where multi-decade genetic studies are required to disprove what a common street urchin can suss out as bullshit with one look
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 25 2023 17:42 utc | 12
Indeed
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4WmzPgdOtRk/TAuWMUPIKPI/AAAAAAAAATY/w1ojMoHBv9s/s1600/Lovely+people.jpg
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 25 2023 17:53 utc | 16
Ardent Muslims long for worldwide Ummah, while Zionists yearn for the establishment of Greater Israel here on earth.Posted by: hicrhodus | Nov 25 2023 16:53 utc | 4
Ardent Muslims do indeed yearn for "worldwide" Ummah (just as Christians would like all mankind to be Christians) but that's not the problem in Israel/Palestine; the dispossessed Palestinians' (who are Muslim and Christian, remember) claim to the land is based on simple property rights. They were there for scores of generations before the Zionists drove them from their land.
It's the Zionists who are mostly claiming religious rights to the land... though there are also secular Zionists, who appear to be driven by good old fashioned racial supremacism.
Posted by: Observer | Nov 25 2023 18:01 utc | 17
Cuba’s President Leads Pro-Palestine March outside US Embassy in Havana
Posted by: Framarz | Nov 25 2023 18:04 utc | 18
Posted by: jayc | Nov 25 2023 17:24 utc | 11
(Hamas delays hostage swaps)
Thanks. That makes sense.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 25 2023 18:09 utc | 19
Latest truce a pause in genocide, one of many losses for Israelis Julia Kassem - Source: Al Mayadeen English
The Zionist entity already violating its own words. Compulsive liars and thieves, of course:
No More Captives Will Be Released Until Israel Respects Agreement – Al-Qassam
Palestinian Summud is amazing, their women are at the heart of this architecture of being, and the regional Resistance (Iran, Shia Lebanon, Syria, Yemen) is humbled, for sure, by this heroic people, the true Semitic people of the Book and of the Land. The fraudulent "Jewish" supremacists will have to find another land to torture, another people to steal from and terrorize. BtW if you have Telegram watch the interviews of the liberated prisoners and their relatives, you will understand a bit what is Summud. Press TV has some video segments in English maybe.
Testimonies of liberated Palestinian women to Al Mayadeen
The zionist entity, down to the last settler, knows that the indigenous women and children are their ultimate enemy, so having no morality but only a void filled with psychopathic supremacism, they attempt to kill and destroy them. By torture, by fragmenting the communal networks, or by bombing their ghettos and camps. But they will fail, despite their strongest line of defense that are the Arab despots, Palestine will be free, from the river to the sea.
'Israel' killing women, children in Gaza at historic pace: NYT
Asymmetric warfare to the next (economic) level: The Resistance is sending a warning to the Euro-US elite thugs owned by the lobby (and by their imperial hubris). Their Ponzi scheme can bleed from so many veins, with low-tech, low-cost options...
Israeli-owned ship targeted in suspected drone attack: Reports
O people of Ireland... A wedding to a march for Palestine! Mashallah! This noble Christian couple has more Islamic sense of Justice in it than all the fake Arab and Turkish rulers and thieves could ever have.
Posted by: Qassem | Nov 25 2023 18:10 utc | 20
I was not sure if I should post the following link, but I found it indeed very informative. For instance did you know that In 2014, Fidel Castro called Israeli efforts to defend themselves from Hamas operations “a repugnant new form of fascism,” and a “macabre genocide against the Palestinian people.”
"Cuba’s dictatorship has a serious problem with Jews"
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4270996-cubas-dictatorship-has-a-serious-problem-with-jews/
Posted by: Framarz | Nov 25 2023 18:23 utc | 21
Ardent Muslims do indeed yearn for "worldwide" Ummah (just as Christians would like all mankind to be Christians)...
Posted by: Observer | Nov 25 2023 18:01 utc | 17
By blindly (or willfully) repeating that propaganda makes you complicit. Use your 'aql. Don't spread lies to poison people's minds.
'aql is intelligence, reason, common sense, etc in many west and south Asian languages.
Posted by: Joey | Nov 25 2023 18:29 utc | 22
By blindly (or willfully) repeating that propaganda makes you complicit. Use your 'aql. Don't spread lies to poison people's minds.
'aql is intelligence, reason, common sense, etc in many west and south Asian languages.Posted by: Joey | Nov 25 2023 18:29 utc | 22
So neither Muslims nor Christians would like the whole world to convert to their religion?
But I see you've ignored the actual meat of my post.
FO,"Joey" troll.
Posted by: Observer | Nov 25 2023 19:14 utc | 23
Middle East Eye reports:
18:50 Al-Qassam Brigades decides to delay release of second batch of captives until occupation adheres to agreement terms related to entry of relief trucks to the northern Gaza Strip and complies with agreed-upon standards for the release of captives: statement
Posted by: Exile | Nov 25 2023 19:33 utc | 24
FO,"Joey" troll.
Posted by: Observer | Nov 25 2023 19:14 utc | 23
The use of obscenity is a sign of a loser and primitive mind. Perhaps ignorant as well as without self control.
Posted by: Joey | Nov 25 2023 19:58 utc | 25
Video of Israeli freighter hit by Missile apparently fired by Yemen
Posted by: Exile | Nov 25 2023 20:15 utc | 27
@UpToEleven | Nov 25 2023 16:21 utc | 3
concerning DNA project by dr. Eran Elhaik from 2012
He changed his theory in 2016
"In later publications, Elhaik and his team modified their theory, proposing simply that the Judaised Khazar kingdom was a core transit area for a federation of Jewish merchants of mixed Iranian, Turkish and Slavic origins who, when that empire collapsed, relocated to Europe.[98][99]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazar_hypothesis_of_Ashkenazi_ancestry
There is more in that wikipedia article
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Nov 25 2023 20:16 utc | 28
Israel-Palestine Weekly Update 24th November: may be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/israel-palestine-weekly-update-6f3
Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Nov 25 2023 20:36 utc | 29
Middle East Eye:
"Hamas announced on Saturday its appreciation for Qatari- and Egyptian-led efforts at ensuring the continuation of a temporary truce agreement between the group and Israel that began on Friday.
Hamas said in a statement that the Egyptian and Qatari parties had confirmed Israel's commitment to all the terms and conditions of the agreement."
"Qatar's Emir Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al-Thani received a phone call from US President Joe Biden on Saturday, who expressed his appreciation for Qatar's role in helping facilitate a temporary truce between Hamas and Israel. For his part, Thani stressed the need to reduce any further escalation, stop the bloodshed in the Gaza Strip and find ways to increase the flow of aid into the enclave, a statement from the emir's Diwan said."
Maybe too optimistic, but reading between the lines: Israel is not dictating terms here. If so, it might well be that Israel will find it difficult to restart its bombing campaign, and may find its intentions for completing the evacuation of the northern sector of Gaza constrained as well.
Posted by: jayc | Nov 25 2023 20:52 utc | 30
@3 using the name of real geneticists and then a bunch of fake mumbo jumbo. Real DNA analysis has shown incredibly similar genetic profiles in israelis and palestinians. As palestinians are the populations who converted to islam after its arrival in the area.
This khazar myth will never die I suppose
Posted by: Cresty | Nov 25 2023 21:27 utc | 31
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 25 2023 17:17 utc | 9
Thanks, appreciate the mention as well as your contributions here. It isn't rational or possible for me to immediately believe "BREAKING" stories of alleged atrocities anymore. In fact, the more atrocious the alleged events, the more untrue they are likely to end up being proven. We've all been through this many times now, and only some of us have learned how to apply a healthy* level and type of skepticism to stories that are obviously designed to evoke the most visceral, violent and angry reactions from us. In the case of the rave, "beheaded babies" and the utter lack of video or photographic evidence of Hamas fighters paragliding in and mowing down festival goers immediately triggered my bullshit detector. Then the drone footage of the blown out cars lining the road started to emerge, interviews with kibbutz survivors who said that Hamas treated them humanely were suppressed or ignored, and stories about Israeli armed forces indiscriminately firing on their own people made it through the media fog of war. I told anyone who'd listen to just wait. What we were being told (including about the hospital attack) wasn't going to hold up to history or scrutiny of even the lightest kind. Had, in fact, the IDF and the compliant media not chosen to run with the utterly ridiculous claims of dozens of beheaded babies, rapes, indiscriminate slaughter, etc. I may never have even raised an eyebrow, which goes to show that they have lost any sense of proportionality or realism in their own propaganda efforts.
They've gotten lazy in the age of digital information totalitarianism and thought crime. Look at the hubbub over TikTok for a great example. Gen Z is just more empathetic to the plight of Palestinians than they are to the alleged plight of the Zionist wannabe European Jew ethnostate. Polling backs this up, and has for a while now. Yet, immediately the likes of Greenblatt w/ the ADL panic and demand more censorship, often predicated on ridiculous claims of "Chinese communist propaganda" being used to program our poor, naive young folk, just like Russia has allegedly been doing for the past decade. There's no other way to characterize the breathless, over the top reporting on and after October 7. They overestimated their own control over channels of information, and have been isolated in the narrative bubble of their own making for so long, that they've lost any sense of what sounds real and what doesn't.
*regarding my use of the word "healthy" as it pertains to skepticism. I think back to the claims of "directed energy weapons" as the culprit for the Hawaii wildfires. While it's healthy to be skeptical, there just isn't any realistic motive or means of having done something like that. A careful study of the effects and characteristics of wildfires and the geographic and weather conditions in Hawaii easily explains the terrible outcomes there.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 25 2023 21:28 utc | 32
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 25 2023 17:17 utc | 9
For those interested in What really happened on October 7th Electronic Intifada was the first to translate eye witness testimony from Hewbrew around Oct 16. Then this was followed up with more reporting from Mondoweiss, The Crade and Grayzone. EI has recently published an updated and very extended version-
https://electronicintifada.net/content/evidence-israel-killed-its-own-citizens-7-october/41156
A key piece of such evidence was translated into English by The Electronic Intifada on 11 November.
Israeli outlet Ynet quoted the commander of an Israeli helicopter squadron who said that on 7 October the air force sent more than two dozen attack helicopters – as well as Elbit drones – to shoot all along the Gaza frontier using Hellfire missiles and machine guns.
According to Ynet’s account of a preliminary assessment by the air force, “it was very difficult to distinguish between terrorists and [Israeli] soldiers or civilians” but that he instructed his pilots “to shoot at everything they see in the area of the fence” with Gaza anyway.
“The frequency of fire at the thousands of terrorists was enormous at the start, and only at a certain point did the pilots begin to slow their attacks and carefully choose the targets,” the paper reported, citing an Israeli Air Force investigation.
There was increased global scrutiny of the Hannibal Directive after it was used to kill an Israeli soldier during the 2014 invasion of Gaza. In 2016 the Israeli army said that “the way the order as it is understood today” would be canceled. “This move was not necessarily a full change in policy but a clarification,” The Times of Israel reported.
But the doctrine now appears to have been revived.
Speaking in Hebrew to a Haaretz podcast, air force reserve Colonel Nof Erez said that what happened near the fence was a “mass Hannibal” and that they had drilled similar scenarios for 20 years.
The first evidence to come to light was the testimony of Yasmin Porat, a survivor of Kibbutz Be’eri, one of dozens of Israeli settlements along the frontier with Gaza that Palestinian fighters assaulted on 7 October.
...
Porat’s account was given in Hebrew to Israeli radio, but went viral internationally when The Electronic Intifada translated it into English on 16 October.
An attendee of the Supernova rave, Porat escaped to nearby Be’eri soon after the assault began.
She and about a dozen other Israelis were taken captive by Palestinian fighters who, she insisted, “did not abuse us. They treated us very humanely.”
Porat explained that their goal “was to kidnap us to Gaza. Not to murder us.” The fighters apparently intended to release them after one day.
The detainees were permitted to sit outside to await the arrival of hostage negotiators. The Palestinians, it seems, wanted a negotiated exit.
But with the arrival of special forces, known as the YAMAM, things quickly went south.
The “negotiators” announced their presence with a hail of surprise gunfire.
“Suddenly there was a volley of bullets at us from the YAMAM. We all started running to find cover,” Porat told Israeli TV.
Porat insisted that the indiscriminate gunfire “eliminated everyone, including the hostages because there was very, very heavy crossfire.” She saw corpses on the ground.
The ensuing gun battle lasted half an hour, culminating in two tank shells being shot into the house where they had been held. Porat herself only survived because she had developed a connection with a Hebrew-speaking Palestinian fighter who ultimately surrendered.
It seems that some unintentional “friendly fire” incidents occurred in the chaotic Israeli response to the 7 October offensive.
But there are indications that the Israeli military’s slaughter of Israeli civilians may also have been the result of calculated policy – or as Major Graeme put it, “continuing as if there are no hostages.”
....
The Israeli media did not bring up the rave until Oct 9/10 and the initial death count went from 50 to 200 on Oct 7. Did they just not realized that there were 364 bodies at the rave....or were they taking the time to figure out how to blame it all on Hamas?
Posted by: pq | Nov 25 2023 21:32 utc | 33
28. The DNA debate goes on.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna10827385
If all else fails make up this story , all ashkenazi come from 4 Jewish women who lived somewhere in Europe 2000 years ago.
Posted by: Hankster | Nov 25 2023 21:36 utc | 34
Posted by: pq | Nov 25 2023 21:32 utc | 33
Actually I could swear the 200 figure was out there pretty early on. And that is another reason I forgot to mention in my reply to Aleph_Null that my bullshit detector went off. They quickly picked the 200 number and it never changed. I could be mis-remembering a bit, and in those couple of days things were indeed a blur, but again I swear as soon as I heard about the rave "massacre" a really high number of casualties was claimed and there was absolutely zero photo or video evidence to back it up. Later on I did find a picture of a bunch of bodies wrapped in clothing inside of what looked to be a festival type tent, but even that was nothing close to 200.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 25 2023 21:38 utc | 35
https://electronicintifada.net/content/my-kind-neighbor-was-tortured-while-working-israel/41461
Sami
When Israeli forces interrogated Sami, they showed him a picture of his house and said that it was marked as a bombing target. They threatened to kill his wife and kids.
They interrogated him about everyone in his neighborhood and blamed him for the 7 October attacks.
After the interrogation, they kicked Sami and the other prisoners and beat them with metal rods.
They peed on the Palestinian prisoners then put them in freezing cold rooms, naked. The soldiers then soaked the mattress with water and forced Sami to sleep on it.
He slept on the same mattress with two other prisoners.
In one instance, the soldiers beat Sami until he blacked out. Sami witnessed several Palestinians die due to the beatings and torture.
The soldiers put the men in black bags, only to be taken God knows where.
After 30 days, Sami was released. But the Israeli army ensured that this release would be humiliating and inhumane, and Sami was dressed in an Israeli flag.
Since Sami returned, he has cried nonstop.
Marzouk
The Israeli forces beat and tortured him. They dragged him naked across gravel and released dogs to intimidate and attack him.
(Since he got back) Marzouk does not leave his house and has trouble hearing
Saeed
They were blindfolded and handcuffed and put on a bus. They were ordered not to look back or they would be killed.
The freed workers, many of them elderly, ran for 8 kilometers on foot until they reached Rafah, Gaza’s southernmost city.
The Israeli army shot at their feet and laughed.
Saeed cannot get out of bed because of leg injuries.
This was normal even before October 7.
Israel is full of demonic characters.
Posted by: pq | Nov 25 2023 21:44 utc | 36
I'm trying to find stories from Oct 7 and 8 on the rave.
Here's Haaretz from Oct 7: https://archive.ph/XLDBZ (pq seems to be correct, no mass casualties yet claimed)
However here is an article from Oct 8 already claiming 240 dead: https://www.worldtribune.com/israel-hamas-war-massacre-at-rave-party-near-gaza-biden-policies-under-attack/
Interestingly I did come across some "new" footage allegedly showing Hamas fighters opening fire on fleeing ravers.
https://watchpeopledie.tv/h/social/post/84808/new-footage-from-the-hamas-rave (interesting URL - watchpeopledie - macabre)
And shooting at portapotties.
Still, no video of any actual people being shot.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 25 2023 21:48 utc | 37
Quds News Network
@QudsNen
“'Throwing Stones”
The five-year-old child, Mohammed Rabi Alian, was summoned by the #Israeli occupation for interrogation on charges of 'throwing stones.' A video taken in 2019 shows the child on his way to the police station in #Jerusalem, accompanied by his father, carrying a bag of sweets
https://twitter.com/QudsNen/status/1728507270546235827
Posted by: Menz | Nov 25 2023 21:50 utc | 38
@31
The original article on the Iranian/Turkic origins of European Jews is here https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2017.00087/full?fbclid=IwAR0-zgKxK0aGDERLvUKuC9Z_5v0rmVzhUNJlzgkhQy7cwGrFpGrs0LFzWPc
Are you claiming that the paper was not written by the named authors? Given the high prominence of the article, it seems implausible that the named authors would not have it withdrawn if their names were fraudulently attached.
Posted by: Paul Cockshott | Nov 25 2023 21:52 utc | 39
Posted by: pq | Nov 25 2023 21:32 utc | 33
Actually I could swear the 200 figure was out there pretty early on.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 25 2023 21:38 utc | 35
Yes, that's right. On Oct 7, around 13:00 Times of Israel website came out with 50 and by the night it was 200. On Oct 8 it kept going up but the rave was NOT mentioned. Oct 9 there was a quiet mention of the rave but it was still in the background.
I think the reason that Israel was quiet for the first 4 days was that they were preparing the atrocity propaganda campaign for the lamestream media.
They knew perfectly well from October 7 itself that they were responsible for most of the civilian deaths. Then the magic number of 1,400 was pulled from a hat along with 40 babies and so on. (They reduced it to 1200 a few days ago which still does not add up).
Even now, until today there are 779 civilians claimed to be killed on Oct 7 on the Haaretz list of dead.
(Which is not reliable 100% and has changed many times since Oct 7)
These include two killed in EGYPT wtf, about 50-60 foreign workers (Thai, Nepali, Cambodian, Philippines) and several weird entries like people killed in Jerusalem and places all over Israel (???)
A comment under the Haaretz list from Oct 24 by someone who counted said that as of Oct 24, that list had 769 names and 462 were military. That was the case when I too counted people with military titles in late October but before Oct 28. (I lost track after well over 400 people with military titles).
Now there are LESS military on that list than when I counted even if that list now includes casualties in Gaza (86) and Lebanon (12) AFTER the invasion of October 28.
I get the impression they are hiding military deaths and / or inflated the number of civilian deaths. Some are just a name and a photo of a candle so who knows if they even exist or what the truth is.
Israel is dishonest about everything.
https://chrishedges.substack.com/p/israels-culture-of-deceit
Posted by: pq | Nov 25 2023 22:05 utc | 40
Still, no video of any actual people being shot.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 25 2023 21:48 utc | 37
I remembered the porta potty video because I remember when it first was released: two days after the Al Ahli hospital bombing around Oct 19. I saw it on NBC. That day, ALL MEDIA, altogeth released a whole blitz of new "terrorist" footage to distract from the hospital bombing.
I found the toilet video interesting because.... we don't see the shooter. It could be anyone
Posted by: pq | Nov 25 2023 22:17 utc | 41
"Israeli Death Tolls for the October 7 Hamas Attack on Israel"
“What is absolutely shocking here is not only the very low Hamas unarmed civilian total of 119, which is no doubt already too high, but that even this elevated figure is surpassed by the IDF civilian total of 126, which is clearly too low. In other words, *Israel killed more unarmed civilians on 10-7 than Hamas did*“
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 25 2023 22:26 utc | 42
Hezbollah won the Settler war against Lebanon because the Iranian made clone of the Chinese C802 Silkworm anti ship missile destroyed the INS Hanat (destroyed it, but didn't cause it to sink) and a second C802 hit an empty tanker that drove into the way.
The introduction of quality anti shipping missiles changed the Dollar-dynamics and began holding at risk items of high value to the internal actors.
No one important cares about the prisoners. None of them from either side. Killing unknown people and tank turret tosses and pain and suffering will not get the Palestinians a win.
The Yeman 'Hoothies' in holding at risk things highly valued by international actors, are doing the only thing that can win the war against the European occupation of Palestine. With killing of hurting anyone, targeting European settler industry and commerce can make the occupation untenable and convince the settlers they should leave of their own accord.
In/around the year 2007 the Ashkanazi were going to "mow the lawn" and attack Gaza, again. Some, more than one person, serving IDF soldiers, put soap powder in several large fuel storage tanks that were to supply the fuel for the settlers to 'mow the lawn' and that clogged the fuel filters on many IDF machines and the settlers did not mow the lawn that year.
Hamas is the bad guys.
The Ashkanazi are the bad guys.
The average Joe Palestinian deserves to get all of Palestine back as his country and every last European settler, or descendant of same, should be frog-marched back into Europe and warned if they returned to Palestine they will be shot on sight. There is no evidence the United Nations owned any lands in Palestine, and it is impossible for the UN to give any part of Palestine to anyone for any reason. The "Balfour Decoration" carries no legal weight and should be laughed out of the room.
Posted by: Hot Carl | Nov 25 2023 22:32 utc | 43
concerning DNA project by dr. Eran Elhaik from 2012
He changed his theory in 2016
There is more in that wikipedia article
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Nov 25 2023 20:16 utc | 28
++++++
yeah? Amazing what people will do when put under enough pressure, eh?
re:Wiki as a source?
no thanks. anyone that would rely on a Wiki article for the "truth" about Khazars, needs their head examined.
Additionally: there were 2 papers mentioned in that twitter post I linked. So even if one author (out of several) claims to have changed his mind (probably under pressure) it wouldn't negate the conclusions of the others
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 25 2023 22:33 utc | 44
concerning DNA project by dr. Eran Elhaik from 2012
He changed his theory in 2016
There is more in that wikipedia article
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Nov 25 2023 20:16 utc | 28
++++++
yeah? Amazing what people will do when put under enough pressure, eh?
re:Wiki as a source?
no thanks. anyone that would rely on a Wiki article for the "truth" about Khazars, needs their head examined.
Additionally: there were 2 papers mentioned in that twitter post I linked. So even if one author (out of several) claims to have changed his mind (probably under pressure) it wouldn't negate the conclusions of the others
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 25 2023 22:33 utc | 45
Various thoughts.
I think the following is bound to happen one way or another, gradually or suddenly, unless Israel truly does some kind of honest 180.
Since Israel does not allow any shipping to Gaza it seems a very simple step to conclude that the world should not allow any shipping to Israel. Companies and ships are vulnerable since can be got at pretty much anywhere in the world including in international waters. Any ship that has made a visit to any Israeli port can be seen as a legitimate target for any kind of incapacitation, sabotage, or destruction no matter who owns, leases, manages, operates, or crews them.
Anyone could easily argue and decide that this would be 100% fair.
Same for air travel, air freight, and related companies. They can be seen as enablers of zionist genocide. Using Israeli carriers or freight should in all likelihood already be deemed to be very high risk behavior for any passengers and cargo.
I wouldn't want to bet on it but all of that could be done in ways that excludes or greatly minimizes any loss or risk of loss of life. Ships can sink in port, airplanes be grounded and ruined when not in flight.
Israeli and zionist ownership of anything is a liability to other investors and the customers, as well as to themselves.
Given things such as these Israel will cease to be, and rightly so since imo they have voided any claim to statehood by their protracted genocidal intent.
The world and in particular the nation states of the world need to get up to speed on this and stop pretending Israel and zionism isn't the problem. Anyone defending Israel is not defending Palestine nor the world at large nor themselves nor their own interests. A simple truth.
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Nov 25 2023 22:33 utc | 46
Khazar's "Genetically Jewish" claim exposed as a complete fraud.
[…]
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 25 2023 16:21 utc | 3
____
This is nice, I suppose, but ultimately as irrelevant as the Zionists’ biblical claims.
All that matters is this:
It’s Palestinian land.
The overwhelming majority of “Israeli” Jews are Western colonialist squatters.
Doesn’t matter a hill of beans if the squatters are direct descendants of King David.
Posted by: malenkov | Nov 25 2023 22:36 utc | 47
https://hubriticanomaly.blogspot.com/2010/06/land-of-jews.html?m=1
THe full text of the book "The Thirteenth Tribe - The Khazar Empire and its Heritage"
By Arthur Koestler, is available on-line
Mr. Koestler was an Ashkenazi Jew and took pride in his Khazar ancestry.
The second part of Mr. Koestler's book deals with the Khazar migration to Polish and Lithuanian territories, caused by the Mongol onslaught, and their impact on the racial composition and social heritage of modern Jewry. He produces a large body of meticulously detailed research in support of a theory that sounds all the more convincing for the restraint with which it is advanced.
Mr. Koestler concludes:
- "The evidence presented in the previous chapters adds up to a strong case in favour of those modern historians - whether Austrian, Israeli or Polish - who, independently from each other, have argued that the bulk of modern Jewry is not of Palestinian, but of Caucasian origin. The mainstream of Jewish migrations did not flow from the Mediterranean across France and Germany to the east and then back again. The stream moved in a consistently westerly direction, from the Caucasus through the Ukraine into Poland and thence into Central Europe. When that unprecedented mass settlement in Poland came into being, there were simply not enough Jews around in the west to account for it, while in the east a whole nation was on the move to new frontiers" ( page 179, page 180).
"The Jews of our times fall into two main divisions: Sephardim and Ashkenazim.
The Sephardim are descendants of the Jews who since antiquity had lived in Spain (in Hebrew Sepharad) until they were expelled at the end of the fifteenth century and settled in the countries bordering the Mediterranean, the Balkans, and to a lesser extent in Western Europe. They spoke a Spanish-Hebrew dialect, Ladino, and preserved their own traditions and religious rites. In the 1960s, the number of Sephardim was estimated at 500,000.
The Ashkenazim, at the same period, numbered about eleven million. Thus, in common parlance, Jew is practically synonymous with Ashkenazi Jew." ( page 181).
In Mr. Koestler's own words,
- "The story of the Khazar Empire, as it slowly emerges from the past, begins to look like the most cruel hoax which history has ever perpetrated."
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 25 2023 22:39 utc | 48
As much as I can't stand Counterpunch these days, St. Clair is doing a good job of documenting Israel's atrocities. For some reason, hidden behind the CP+ paywall (which I have a way of circumventing that I cannot share here, and no - it doesn't involve paying, LOL).
The attack on the Nova music festival didn’t go down the way it was initially reported. It turns out the festival was originally scheduled to end the event on Friday, but the organizers got permission midweek from the Army to extend to Saturday. Hamas did not know about the music festival and only learning about it after entering Israeli territory, as shown in bodycam footage of a terrorist asking a captured civilian where the “bad guys” are. An Israeli attack helicopter fired on Hamas fighters and also killed “some” partygoers.
Ya don't say!
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 25 2023 23:12 utc | 49
@3 using the name of real geneticists and then a bunch of fake mumbo jumbo. Real DNA analysis has shown incredibly similar genetic profiles in israelis and palestinians. As palestinians are the populations who converted to islam after its arrival in the area.
This khazar myth will never die I suppose
Posted by: Cresty | Nov 25 2023 21:27 utc | 31
++++++
LOL
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4WmzPgdOtRk/TAuWMUPIKPI/AAAAAAAAATY/w1ojMoHBv9s/s1600/Lovely+people.jpg
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 25 2023 23:12 utc | 50
The palestinians congregated out of the Offer prison have been attacked by Israeli forces so that the moment can not be caught in camera by the press, injuring at least three people...
https://t.me/PalestinaHoy/12219
The Israeli forces have intrused themselves into the home of Israa Jaabis to asure there is no press in the home which could film the state in which this prisoner comes out of Israeli death jails....
https://t.me/capitalismoesbarbarie/7295
Home of Israa Jaabis previous to her release....Is this not an occupation regime?
https://t.me/PalestinaHoy/12262
Meanwhile, the israelis have killed four people in Cisjordania and are removing the roads there...
Another palestinian prisoner, Basil Ayaydeh, came out with long hair and beard and without memory at all, after 16 years, most of them in solitary confinement...
https://t.me/Marwa_OsmanLB/1705
Also has been released Palestinian prisoner Shorouq Dwayyat, kidnapped by Zionist colonization since 2015, at the age of 19, She was a student at the University of Bethlehem. She was sentenced to 16 years in prison after defending herself against a settler who attempted to grope her and remove her hijab. She fought back and another Israeli settler fired four bullets into her body. They let her bleed to death as a form of torture that affected her health.
After condemning her and not her attackers, the Israeli Colonial Occupation Entity also stripped Dwayat of her residence in Jerusalem, alleging “breach of trust,” using the case as a mechanism to promote Israel's colonial policy of attacking Palestinian existence in Jerusalem.
Dwayyat, a student of history and geography, graduated from high school and achieved an absolutely outstanding result in the national exams in 2015.
https://t.me/capitalismoesbarbarie/7289
https://t.me/PalestinaHoy/12257
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 25 2023 23:21 utc | 51
Aaron Mate: Biden Endorses Israel's War to Eliminate Gaza
https://www.aaronmate.net/p/biden-endorses-israels-war-to-eliminate
This is truly sub-human and despicable:
In endorsing the next phase of Israel’s military operations, the White House recognizes that the brief lull poses a new challenge. According to Politico, “there was some concern in the administration about an unintended consequence of the pause: that it would allow journalists broader access to Gaza and the opportunity to further illuminate the devastation there and turn public opinion on Israel.”The Biden team’s concern is understandable: the devastation that they have supported in Gaza is without precedent in recent memory.
Emphasis mine.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 25 2023 23:21 utc | 52
Pres being attacked and dissplaced at Israa Jaabis home by Israeli forces, more footage...
https://t.me/PalestinaHoy/12265
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 25 2023 23:24 utc | 53
Meanwhile the Israeli hostages being released by Hamas look like very happy and helathy people, and say goodbay to their hijackers as if they were family they leave after holidays...
https://t.me/PalestinaHoy/12266
While this happens, the Israeli regime, not losing a minute in his intent of provoking a new and final Nakba, is removing roads in Jenin, occupied Cisjordania...
https://t.me/PalestinaHoy/12246
https://t.me/PalestinaHoy/12243
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 25 2023 23:30 utc | 54
Kid Omar Al Shweiki released...
https://t.me/PalestinaHoy/12267
While Palestinian are being received with such love ans support by their neighbors and relatives, this is what is in the waiting for the Israeli hostages....I would bet a bunch at least would wish to come back to Hamas...
Jonathan Pollard demands death threats to relatives of Hamas hostages....so that they shut up....
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 25 2023 23:37 utc | 55
Released kid Nourhan Awad being received as a hero, in Qalandia Refugee Camp...
https://t.me/PalestinaHoy/12263
33 kid will be released today from Israeli jails....
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 25 2023 23:40 utc | 56
Ya don't say!
@ Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 25 2023 23:12 utc | 49
Thanks again for your attention to Nova, the rave from another planet. October 7th slayings in general (mostly at the hands of IDF, as it happens) but that beyond-bizarre tragedy of the Nova music festival in particular... it all becomes an iconic sign of times where reality fights a losing battle against landslides of spin.
Several issues cloud the water, starting with Israel's desperation to paint Hamas as the perpetrator of atrocities raining down from IDF helicopters. For one thing, it really is difficult to comprehend the mindset of an entire culture willing to sacrifice their own, just to create a pretext for the genocide they so fervently need. One of the first hostages freed, Yocheved Lifshitz, said the people of their kibbutz were offered as scapegoats -- i.e. sacrifices to effect a desired outcome. Nobody paid any attention to her then or since. (She's the one who looked back to shake hands with a captor, and say "shalom.")
I'm interested in the catalytic property of the lies we've heard. The empire of lies (USUKIsrael) literally subsists on this property: Lies function to get the stone rolling downhill; by the time it's built up to an avalanche, nobody seems to care about original truths. Those old lies are yesterday's news, as it were.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 25 2023 23:48 utc | 57
Israa Jaabis free...
https://t.me/PalestinaHoy/12272
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 26 2023 0:00 utc | 58
I'm interested in the catalytic property of the lies we've heard. The empire of lies (USUKIsrael) literally subsists on this property: Lies function to get the stone rolling downhill; by the time it's built up to an avalanche, nobody seems to care about original truths. Those old lies are yesterday's news, as it were.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 25 2023 23:48 utc | 57
Exactly. And exactly the intent. I neglected to dive into this aspect of the "BREAKING" events like October 7 in either of my comments. But I did allude to how the more cinematic and revulsive such allegations are, the more likely they are to be untrue upon close scrutiny or having let the facts emerge from the fog of war - which takes time. And during that time, the new reality has already been "catalyzed" as you put it. By the time the truth has tied its shoes, a lie has traveled round the world. And in our current state of information totalitarianism (try doing a search using Yandex vs. Google on any "controversial" or Empire related topic for a quick example), it's easier than ever to memory hole or brush under the rug any facts, narratives or events that are inconvenient to those who hold power. It's certainly easier to bury those things under the avalanche you mentioned, ex. my Google/Yandex comment.
I can't even have conversations with most people about these "BREAKING" stories for the first several days or weeks after they're reported. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, I can't get fooled again (with a stutter in there somewhere). Immediately in the wake of 9/11 I recall being so angry that I was willing to openly discuss nuclear weapons on Middle East countries and nobody around me had any qualms about that line of conversation. That was a version of myself that these Empire sustaining atrocity pigs want to see, and one that I never want to see again in myself.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 26 2023 0:03 utc | 59
by the time it's built up to an avalanche, nobody seems to care about original truths. Those old lies are yesterday's news, as it were.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 25 2023 23:48 utc | 57
My constant mantra is:
"They're always lying even when they're telling the truth."
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 26 2023 0:19 utc | 60
Testimonies by Palestine released kids to Al Jazeera...
PALESTINE TODAY 🇵🇸, [11/26/2023 1:33] URGENT: The freed Palestinian boy, Yasser Zaymeh to Al Jazeera: "I witnessed the murder of several Palestinian prisoners during their arrest in Israeli prisons."PALESTINE TODAY 🇵🇸, [11/26/2023 1:35]
URGENT: Released Palestinian boy Yasser Zaaymeh to Al Jazeera: "Israeli occupation forces assaulted and beat several children detained in Megiddo prison."PALESTINE TODAY 🇵🇸, [11/26/2023 1:37]
URGENT: Shadi, the freed Palestinian boy, told Al Jazeera: "The occupation forces beat us during the arrest."PALESTINE TODAY 🇵🇸, [11/26/2023 1:38]
URGENT: Released Palestinian prisoner Omar Shweiki told Al Jazeera: "When the Israeli occupation authorities arrested me, I was 15 years old."PALESTINE TODAY 🇵🇸, [11/26/2023 1:40]
URGENT: Released Palestinian boy Omar Shweiki to Al Jazeera: "There are many children in Israeli occupation prisons who are between 13 and 15 years old."
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 26 2023 0:44 utc | 62
If you read The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, you would understand. a
Posted by: Voltaire | Nov 26 2023 0:48 utc | 63
Cresty | Nov 25 2023 21:27 utc | 31
***.. using the name of real geneticists and then a bunch of fake mumbo jumbo. Real DNA analysis has shown incredibly similar genetic profiles in israelis and palestinians. As palestinians are the populations who converted to islam after its arrival in the area.
This khazar myth will never die I suppose***
So you are arguing that there should be a single State populated by both "Israelis" and "Palestinians", and that since genetically they are near enough identical, all that would be needed for it to work out ok is a strict ban on all forms of sectarianism?
Posted by: Cynic | Nov 26 2023 0:48 utc | 64
pq 40
It's amazing under the circumstances that there isn't a hell of a lot more "anti semitism" than there is for the AIPACs and the Boards of Deputies and the Greenblatts and the Rachel Rileys to invent and exaggerate and whine about.
Though of course this would be unfair to the many decent Jewish people who have been at the forefront in calling out the Zionist Genocide in Gaza for what it is, and all the admirable individuals like Max Blumenthal and Aaron Mate, and many others, who have campaigned on the issue for years at great cost to themselves.
The Zionist Regime has always had a problematic relationship with basic facts. This is particularly the case with what happened on Oct. 7. Trying to understand what actually occurred, even nearly 2 months later, is like a game of Find The Lady.
The Zionist Regime is still peddling fairy stories about 40 (or is it 50 now?) beheaded babies, babies cooked in ovens, mass rapes, and much else in the same vein, all faithfully parroted by the lying corporate media. Pinocchio had nothing on these people.
Initial claims of 1,400 murdered civilians apparently included about 200 Hamas fighters killed in battles with Zionist troops and police who were guarding the Gaza Concentration Camp. A list of 681 dead Israelis was subsequently drawn up. This included 307 troops and 56 armed police, about 53% of the total, leaving 318 civilians. And it has become apparent that many, and probably most, of those civilians were killed by Israeli forces through the indiscriminate use of heavy weapons, artillery, tank gunfire, and helicopter gunships with no attempt to avoid civilian casualties. There seems to have been a very panicky response, simply blasting anything that moved (and anything that didn't move.)
Most of the weapons used by Hamas were limited to small arms, grenades, rocket propelled grenades and explosive charges. They were incapable of inflicting death and destruction on the scale seen in the aftermath of the attack, particularly to levelled buildings, and row after row of burnt out mangled cars. This was the work of 120mm tank shells, 155mm guns, 30mm automatic cannon and Hellfire missiles. The effect of such weapons on the human body is well known, Bodies will have been burned and blasted beyond recognition, often leaving nothing but a few scraps of flesh and bone to bury, or nothing at all. Almost certainly heads and limbs will have been torn off and strewn around indiscriminately as gruesome debris. But the majority of those who died did so in a stand up fight between opposing groups of heavily armed men. There is no doubt that the nature of the fighting will continue to be grossly misrepresented by the Israeli regime.
Sad to say, similar considerations apply to the "holocaust" of the 1940s. A plaque of some vintage at Auschwitz citing "4 million" dead victims was recently quietly removed and replaced with another citing "1.4 million" victims. All that can be said with any certainty is that the accounts we have been given are simply untrue.
Quite likely, we will never find out the truth about either of these 2 events under all the layers of distortion, propaganda, and outright lies. Is it 1,400 dead, or 1,200, or 900, or 700? Who knows? It's like the Kennedy assassination, kept under wraps for the next 50 years.
Posted by: anon | Nov 26 2023 0:52 utc | 65
Hankster | Nov 25 2023 21:36 utc | 34
*** If all else fails make up this story , all ashkenazi come from 4 Jewish women who lived somewhere in Europe 2000 years ago.***
Which would mean that either .... (1) the Askenaziz were so intensively inbred it could explain why so many of them tend to be unhinged --- or (2) any connection they have to the Middle East is so diluted as to be little more than a mosquito-bite.
Posted by: Cynic | Nov 26 2023 1:01 utc | 66
Posted by: anon | Nov 26 2023 0:52 utc | 65;
"....Is it 1,400 dead, or 1,200, or 900, or 700? Who knows?"
Give it a little more time. The tally will come out that six million Israeli's were killed by Hamas on October 7th.
Oh, yes, and then Palastine if it remains to exist in any form will have to pay war reparations on all those dead.
Posted by: Gee Eye Joe | Nov 26 2023 1:10 utc | 67
Posted by: Voltaire | Nov 26 2023 0:35 utc | 61
Please elaborate.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 26 2023 1:17 utc | 68
ZH has a posting up with the title
Israeli-Owned Ship Comes Under Iranian Suicide Drone Attack In Indian Ocean
the quote
Another Israeli-linked shipping vessel has been targeted by Iran-backed forces against the backdrop of the Gaza war. A US defense official was cited in the Associated Press as describing that a container ship owned by an Israeli businessman came under attack by an Iranian-made Shahed-136 drone on Friday.
Separately, the pan-Arab satellite channel Al Mayadeen said an Israeli ship was targeted. The Malta-flagged, French-operated CMA CGM Symi vessel was in international waters when the suicide drone armed with a bomb exploded into the ship, causing damage but not resulting in injury to crew members.The US official cited in AP said "we continue to monitor the situation closely" but did not cite any specific evidence showing Iran to be behind the attack.
Maritime security company Ambrey said the vessel had departed a port in the UAE, and soon the ship's tracking signal went offline. "The vessel was managed by an Israeli-affiliated company, which was assessed to be the reason why it was targeted," a statement from the security company said.
As for Israeli ties, The Times of Israel has learned that "The ship, its cargo, its operating company and its points of departure and destination did not appear to have any clear ties to Israel. Rather, the Symi is leased to CMA CGM by Singapore-based Eastern Pacific Shipping, which is a company ultimately controlled by Israeli billionaire Idan Ofer."
According to further emerging details:
CMA CGM, a major shipper based in Marseille, France, did not immediately respond to a request for comment. However, the vessel’s crew had been behaving as though they believed the ship faced a threat.
...The ship had its Automatic Identification System tracker switched off since Tuesday when it left Dubai’s Jebel Ali port, according to data from MarineTraffic.com analyzed by the AP.
Thus it's likely the crew switched off the tracker as it suspected a drone was overhead seeking to target the ship. In the attack aftermath, a statement from the operator indicated that as of Saturday, "The vessel in question is currently sailing as planned" and that "all crew are safe and well."
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 26 2023 1:21 utc | 69
The palestinians congregated out of the Offer prison have been attacked by Israeli forces so that the moment can not be caught in camera by the press, injuring at least three people...
Posted by: Ghost of Mozgovoy | Nov 25 2023 23:21 utc | 51
As I predicted would happen days ago on these very forums.
Once you know the mind of Satan you can foresee every single deed.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 26 2023 1:54 utc | 70
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 26 2023 1:21 utc | 69
Sounds like false flag nonsense to me.
Besides, it's not a strike unless it sinks. Those Iranians better up their game ...
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 26 2023 1:58 utc | 71
If you read The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, you SHOULD FIRST understand YOU'RE READING A FANTASY FICTION NOVEL .....
Voltaire | Nov 26 2023 0:48 utc | 63
Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Nov 26 2023 2:08 utc | 72
Posted by: Cynic | Nov 26 2023 0:48 utc | 64
I wasn't making any argument. I was pointing out that that commenter was spreading easily disproved lies.
When that sort of anti-semtic ( and as B has pointed out many times, palestinians are semites as well) spreads on this blog it tars Bernhards great work. And I don't appreciate that.
We all know the power and evil of ideology. And I doubt aside from a few trolls there is anyone in favor of 'zionism' regularly in this comment section
Posted by: Cresty | Nov 26 2023 2:20 utc | 73
There is something about islam that non Muslims don't know and Muslims won't tell you.
In one sentence, they will say Quran is the perfect book which contains the +whole* truth. Not an expert Quran reader but haven't seen destructive stuff in it so far.
There are some who are called Quranic Muslims, who just follow it. In most Muslim countries, they are hunted down and likely to be jailed.
For most muslim denominations, Hadith is important. Don't you dare ask why you need Hadith when al-quran is perfect and wholesome. Different denominations use different groupings of Hadiths. This is why Iranian Shia is more into martyrism compared to Wahabis who are, well ...
-------
The Catholics do something similar. When necessary, they start their old testament and go all Joshua on everyone.
------
The Hindu talks about his original Vedas but have a habit of being sucked into Brahmanism. I consider it a non issue because it is internal stuff to be solved by themselves. South India doesn't follow Brahmanism while north is slowly eradicating it.
----
Anyway, i am not woke. I don't care what a society do internally. multiple wives? go ahead. multiple husbands? why not! Arrange your own society as you wish.
We just have to rid of vile ideologies that just want to kill other people to steal their stuff.
Don't bring up nonsense like Tibetans Buddhists having slavery among themselves here, to compare with a nuclear power running around like a rabid dog, wanting to bite pieces of Lebanon, Syria and thus bring about a big disaster.
Posted by: chola3 | Nov 26 2023 2:26 utc | 74
Voltaire | Nov 26 2023 0:48 utc | 63
Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Nov 26 2023
There is nothing fictional about TPoTLEoZ.
It describes the principles by means of which societies can be and have been subverted.
It describes the means by which societies may be placed under control of an elite group.
It correlates with means Zionists themselves have used to access the levers of power over Western politics.
It's description of the Council itself matches the description of the world Zionist Council as well as organisations like the Chabad Lubovitch.
Whoever describes it as both fiction and fantasy has probably never stepped out of his bedroom to engage with the real world at any point in life.
Blanket dismissals of the book are a sign that one's brain has been hacked by yet another Zionist mind virus like the one that forces one to involuntarily scream "ANTI -SEMITIC!!!" every time anything vaguely critical of Zionism is expressed.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 26 2023 2:52 utc | 75
The Origins of Ashkenaz, Ashkenazic Jews, and Yiddish
Recently, the geographical origins of Ashkenazic Jews (AJs) and their native language Yiddish were investigated by applying the Geographic Population Structure (GPS) to a cohort of exclusively Yiddish-speaking and multilingual AJs.
GPS localized most AJs along major ancient trade routes in northeastern Turkey adjacent to primeval villages with names that resemble the word “Ashkenaz.”
These findings were compatible with the hypothesis of an Irano-Turko-Slavic origin for AJs and a Slavic origin for Yiddish and at odds with the Rhineland hypothesis advocating a Levantine origin for AJs and German origins for Yiddish.
We discuss how these findings advance three ongoing debates concerning
(1) the historical meaning of the term “Ashkenaz;”
(2) the genetic structure of AJs and their geographical origins as inferred from multiple studies employing both modern and ancient DNA and original ancient DNA analyses; and
(3) the development of Yiddish.
We provide additional validation to the non-Levantine origin of AJs using ancient DNA from the Near East and the Levant.
Due to the rising popularity of geo-localization tools to address questions of origin, we briefly discuss the advantages and limitations of popular tools with focus on the GPS approach.
Our results reinforce the non-Levantine origins of AJs.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fgene.2017.00087/full
Keywords: Yiddish, Ashkenazic Jews, Ashkenaz, geographic population structure (GPS), Archaeogenetics, Rhineland hypothesis, ancient DNA
Citation:
Das R, Wexler P, Pirooznia M and Elhaik E (2017) The Origins of Ashkenaz, Ashkenazic Jews, and Yiddish. Front. Genet. 8:87. doi: 10.3389/fgene.2017.00087
Received: 02 October 2016;
Accepted: 07 June 2017;
Published: 21 June 2017.
Edited by:
Stéphane Joost, École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne, Switzerland
Reviewed by:
Pavel Flegontov, University of Ostrava, Czechia
Lounès Chikhi, Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique (CNRS), France
Erika Hagelberg, University of Oslo, Norway
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 26 2023 2:58 utc | 76
OT, but related...
Iran has always been too powerful for "Israel" to attack on its own. But the anti-Iran hatred escalated when Ahmadinejad was Prez. He convened a well-attended multi-national Holocaust Investigation conference.
It took the form of research papers delivered by circa 10 individuals whom had conducted detailed research into various aspects of the Official Story. The 6 Million being but one line of inquiry.
Some of the statistical data was very persuasive and cited sources which would be tasked with preserving permanent records.None of the researchers claimed that the Holocaust didn't happen but all of them had major quibbles.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 26 2023 3:00 utc | 77
Jews drink the blood of Christian and Muslim babies.
Posted by: Voltaire | Nov 26 2023 3:33 utc | 78
DNA analysis has shown incredibly similar genetic profiles in israelis and palestinians. As palestinians are the populations who converted to islam after its arrival in the area.
This khazar myth will never die I suppose
Posted by: Cresty | Nov 25 2023 21:27 utc | 31
++++++
Ashkenazi Jews exhibit a dominant Iranian (88%˜) and residual Levantine (3%˜) ancestries,
as opposed to
Bedouins - 14%˜ Iranian and 68%˜ Levantine
and
Palestinians - 18%˜ Iranian and 58%˜ Levantine
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 26 2023 3:46 utc | 79
"None of the researchers claimed that the Holocaust didn't happen but all of them had major quibbles."
Hoarsewhisperer@77
It is all an matter of context: in eastern europe, essentially on the Eastern Front, something in the order of 30-40 million, most of them either civilians or prisoners, died. That is a very rough number, to refine it we simply need to reach a total of war deaths and deduct all killed in action or died of battle wounds to come up with the actual figure.
Which total would be our "Holocaust" a significant and discrete part of which would be the killing of Jews as Jews but which would really be a total reflecting the twin objects of the Holocaust. One of which was the eradication of 'dangerous' elements- threats to the Nazi ideal of society- the other being the extraction of the maximum net labour power from a defined population of detainees, proscribed categories and designated enemies.
It has to be remembered that although there were many massacres, in which hundreds of thousands if not millions were killed, the purpose of the Camps was to extract labour power by using brutality and other incentives to extract as much profit as possible, employing modern methods of labour management, in circumstances in which food supplies, to renew that labour power was greatly limited.
This was in complete conformity with capitalist practice which has always specialised in extracting the maximum amount of work at the lowest cost in terms of production diveted to subsistence and reproduction. The classic examples, well understood by the Nazis, being Plantation labour in the Caribbean where the economics of the slave trade made it profitable to buy labour and work/starve it to death, when it could be replaced.
The Holocaust industry teaches us that it was grounded firstly in an irrational racism and secondly constituted a defiance of enlightened humanist values. I would argue that it was actually a logical reflection of the reality of a state acting to enhance the power and profits of a ruling capitalist class: the class which had put the Nazis in power and mandated it to govern in their interests.
In this analysis there is no diminution of the significance of the villainous ill treatment of the Jews or any of the other designated minorities, from the Communists to the Roma and the mentally non conforming to homosexuals etc. The lessons to be drawn from those exercises in inhumanity are important, should never be forgotten and require our contemplation analysis and understanding.
But there is a recognition that the crimes of the Nazis were crimes peculiar to capitalist society and, in many ways, a reflection of the actual core significance of that society. That Auschwitz, the industrial complex/death camp, was pre-figured in the cotton mills of Manchester and the plantations of St Domingue. And that the Jews were being forced into following the footsteps of the workhouse children of London consigned, for money, to the mills of the north and the poachers worked to death in van Diemen's Land and the 'Indians' marched to Petosi's mines.
Unfortunately the Holocaust Museums pretend otherwise and, in doing so, pave the way for more of the same-even worse- to come by failing to explain what it was about this complex and expensive penal infrastructure that made it so attractive to investors that enormous capital sums were sunk into it.
Posted by: bevin | Nov 26 2023 3:50 utc | 80
Voltaire | Nov 26 2023 3:33 utc | 78
So do capitalists who care nothing for the religious affiliations of the parents of those whose blood they drink
Posted by: bevin | Nov 26 2023 3:53 utc | 81
[email protected] living descendant of King David was Ethiopian, Haile Salassie.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 26 2023 4:05 utc | 82
Posted by: bevin | Nov 26 2023 3:50 utc | 80
And like present day capitalists the Nazis also performed medical experiments on their captives to better understand how to control the rabble and make us work harder and with less complaining.
Posted by: Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 26 2023 4:36 utc | 83
Posted by: malenkov | Nov 25 2023 22:36 utc | 47Khazar's "Genetically Jewish" claim exposed as a complete fraud.
The truth is probably in the middle. Genetically there are both similarities and differences between nearly all Jews. Most English Jews, for example, are generally recognizable as such yet still look decidedly English compared to Jews in other nations. The simplest explanation is that there is an original Jewish tribal strain which, after millennia, is mixed with many others.
I find that culture trumps genes in many ways and there is something, yes, special about Jewish culture which manifests in many different nations as a separate ethnicity. This apartness is both why they have lasted so long spreading as a far-flung cosmopolitan tribe and also why there have so often been problems.
This apartness is dynamically similar to ego in the Buddhist sense, meaning the organization of experience into the perspective of an individual, aka 'me', centralizing intelligence around a body with location which in turn effects the environment and phenomena so experienced (which some schools claim actually creates three dimensional space plus time making the brain both receiver and transmitter of such experiential dimensions of Mind).
It's not that ego is entirely fallacious, but it is a limited view which when taken to extremes especially with 'collective ego' – especially strong in Jewish culture – usually leads to extreme 'us-versus-them' dynamics involving aggression and conflict which intensely solidify seeming boundaries and differences between self and other, us and them.
One thing for sure: hatred - another self-vs-other intensification - is never a good way forward.
"no thanks. anyone that would rely on a Wiki article for the "truth" about Khazars, needs their head examined."
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 25 2023 22:33 utc | 45
I agree 100%
Middle East Eye Reports:
the health ministry has reported that Israeli military forces killed six Palestinians in the occupied West Bank.
The ministry said that four Palestinians were killed by Israeli fire on Saturday in Jenin, where Israeli forces launched a raid.
In Qabatiya, located near Jenin, a 25-year-old doctor was killed outside his home early on Saturday morning, while another Palestinian was killed in al-Bireh, just outside of Ramallah.
At least 229 Palestinians, including 52 children, have been killed in the occupied West Bank since 7 October.
Posted by: Exile | Nov 26 2023 5:29 utc | 86
"...kibbutzim in Nirim, Nir Oz, Magen and Ein Hashloshla. These four kibbutzim were established after the Nakba of 1948 on my land, Al Ma’in, (65,000 dunums — 16,000 acres). Al Ma’in was and is the home of my Abu Sitta family for centuries, now refugees in the Gaza Strip and elsewhere."
Posted by: Menz | Nov 26 2023 5:34 utc | 87
It should be noted at this point that Ahmadinejad's 'well-attended multinational Holocaust investigation conference' included such illustrious guests as former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke, some nuts from the Neturei Karta sect, several German NPD officials and other representatives of the international neo-Nazi scene, such as Frederick Toeben, Robert Faurisson and Veronika Clarke.
Of course, it is up to each individual whether or not they want to share the mental diarrhea of this multinational neo-Nazi freak show.
Posted by: Nobody | Nov 26 2023 5:55 utc | 88
Why Arafat and the Palestinians rejected Clinton's deal - the land offered as seen on a map, looked like a slice of Swiss cheese:
https://www.democracynow.org/2006/2/14/fmr_israeli_foreign_minister_if_i
Posted by: Menz | Nov 26 2023 5:59 utc | 89
Why the Palestinians rejected Clinton's deal:
https://www.democracynow.org/2006/2/14/fmr_israeli_foreign_minister_if_i
Posted by: Menz | Nov 26 2023 6:00 utc | 90
Posted by: Nobody | Nov 26 2023 5:55 utc | 88
Anything David Duke or the "nuts" from the Neturei sect have to say will still be 100% more credible than the smoke and mirrors and deliberate lies that emanate from any Israeli spokesmen and women.
Posted by: Menz | Nov 26 2023 6:12 utc | 91
Anything David Duke or the "nuts" from the Neturei sect have to say will still be 100% more credible than the smoke and mirrors and deliberate lies that emanate from any Israeli spokesmen and women.
Posted by: Menz | Nov 26 2023 6:12 utc | 91
---
Nice to see the masks coming off. :)
Posted by: Nobody | Nov 26 2023 6:22 utc | 92
From a posting at The Cradle
The Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor (Euromed) released an updated count of victims in Gaza on 25 November, showing that Israel's ethnic cleansing campaign has left at least 20,000 dead since 7 October."Our team recently completed an updated statistic of the number of victims, including those we were able to identify who were under the rubble, given the lack of chances of being alive," Euromed chairman Ramy Abdu said via social media. "The number […] reached 20,031 martyrs, including 8,176 children."
He added that the number is expected to increase as more bodies are recovered from under the rubble of destroyed buildings.
"This number, together with the wounded, represents an average of 2.6 percent of the population in the Gaza Strip, equivalent to 11 million Arab citizens," Abdu added in the social media post.
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 26 2023 6:39 utc | 93
@Tom_Q_Collins | Nov 26 2023 0:03 utc | 59
I was thoroughly disappointed that Gilbert Doctorow included this sentence in his recent piece about Gaza:
"why did Hamas act so cruelly on 7 October, savagely murdering 1200 Israeli civilians in their homes, in their beds?"
Someone like him, who trades on his expertise and savviness, betrays an extreme level of naivety by regurgitating this debunked Israeli propaganda without question.
https://gilbertdoctorow.com/2023/11/25/hamas-has-won-the-war/comment-page-1/#comment-7756
Posted by: tawharanui | Nov 26 2023 6:56 utc | 94
the blockade of the Red Sea by Yemen is a extremely big event. So far 2 Israeli ships. One can expect tit-for-tat escalation.
Blocking the Suez Canal and Eilat has far reaching consequences. TBD
Posted by: Exils | Nov 26 2023 7:04 utc | 95
the mental diarrhea of this multinational neo-Nazi freak show.
Talking about Israel, surely?
Not sure if it has sunk in yet, but Israel's indiscriminate murder of tens of thousands of innocents has for once and all banished the spectre of the holocaust. Israel has killed more in Gaza than were slain in the ill fated Warsaw uprising.
It is in a bizarre twist of events those who pursue the Zionist heresy have inherited the methodology of the Nazis. This is plain to any fair minded observer.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 26 2023 7:29 utc | 96
One can expect tit-for-tat escalation.
Posted by: Exils | Nov 26 2023 7:04 utc | 95
What's hilarious to me is that after decades of war the Houthis have little left to lose.
They can shut down a good portion of global shipping with little consequence further than what they're already used to.
What? U.S "boots on the ground" in Yemen? This is no Iraq - the Houthis fight for the joy of fighting.
They're going to get a lot more "tit" out of this than the other side can get any "tat".
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 26 2023 8:08 utc | 97
The truth is probably in the middle. Genetically there are both similarities and differences between nearly all Jews.
Posted by: Scorpion | Nov 26 2023 4:43 utc | 84
Sorry, this nonsense keeps coming up over and over again.
There are NO significant genetic similarities between Jews of different races.
None.
Nada.
Zilch.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 26 2023 8:11 utc | 98
Ashkenazi Jews exhibit a dominant Iranian (88%˜) and residual Levantine (3%˜) ancestries,
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 26 2023 3:46 utc | 79
That sounds bizarre. How much Iranian % do actual Iranians exhibit?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 26 2023 8:16 utc | 99
Definition and Etymology of holocaust (n.)
mid-13c., "sacrifice by fire, burnt offering," from Old French holocauste (12c.), or directly from Late Latin holocaustum, from Greek holokauston "a thing wholly burnt," neuter of holokaustos "burned whole," from holos "whole"
Originally a Bible word for "burnt offerings," given wider figurative sense of "massacre, destruction of a large number of persons" from 1670s.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/holocaust
The Palestinian Holocaust: the systematic state-sponsored killing of 100,000 to a million Palestinian men, women, and children, and of others perpetrated by criminal bands of Zionist Jewish Terrorists beginning from 1922; by the State of Israel from May 1948; and by Jewish Settlers in the illegal Occupied Territories from 1967.
The Gaza Holocaust: 2023 a concentrated genocidal atrocity perpetrated by Israel from Oct 7 2023 - Ongoing; within the context of the broader historical Palestinian Holocaust.
Posted by: Lavrov's Dog | Nov 26 2023 8:44 utc | 100
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Grayzone: Israeli October 7 posterchild was killed by Israeli tank, eyewitnesses reveal
Posted by: b | Nov 25 2023 15:55 utc | 1