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November 23, 2023
Palestine Open Thread 2023-282
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📃 Summary of operations acknowledged by Hezbullah on 23 November via DD politics telegram
– Soldiers in Duhayra
– Soldiers in Jal Al-Allam
– Birkat Risha Military site
– Soldiers near Sa’sa’ settlement
– A tank and accompanying infantry force near Al-Rahib
– Safad military base with 48 rockets
– Kherbat Ma’az military base and artillery
– A house with soldiers in Al-Manara
– Al-Rahub and Tal Sha’ar base
– Soldiers in Rmeem valley
– Al-Marj military base
– Ruwaysat Al-Alam military base
– Ramia military base
– Jal Al-Allam military abase
– Soldiers inside a house in Al-Manara
– Al-Bustan military base
– Birkat Risha military site
– Staging grounds in Al-Rahib military site
– Zar’it barracks with a Burkan rocket
– Staging grounds in Hadb Al-Bustan and Birkat Risha
– Staging ground in Al-Khazan and Yiftah military site
– Malkieh Military site
Summary:
– Number of statements: 22
– Weapons used: Rockets, ATGMs, suitable weapons
📝 Most number of operations carried in one day since 8-October
☠️ In two statements, Hezbullah claimed killing Israeli soldiers
🌹 Two new martyrs today, added to the 5 leaders announced at dawn
Posted by: Jo | Nov 23 2023 22:55 utc | 101
History on Muslim Brotherhood. Important to understand how the table was set.
http://www.srilankaguardian.org/2023/11/from-munich-to-soviet-steppes-cia-finds.html?m=1
Posted by: Seer | Nov 23 2023 23:00 utc | 102
Brilliant essay by Zizek, lays the conspiracy against Gaza all out, while leaving himself a philosophical escape hatch: https://thephilosophicalsalon.com/truth-has-the-structure-of-a-fiction-an-imagined-phone-call/
Posted by: Ludo | Nov 23 2023 23:24 utc | 103
Israel is going down the toilet economically, regardless of body count of both sides in Gaza.
1. mobilized few 100s k’s reservists = less work force
2. 3-400k already left Israel (lot of them hold dual passports)
3. regular barrages from any direction (Gaza, Lebanon) means daily air raid sirens, running to shelter, disrupted traffic, people working etc. this alone is killing economy, even more than loss of workforce from 1. and 2.
4. whats left of economy is going into war more, meaning different priorities and lot of restrictions, which makes life much less comfortable for people living there, which means more of 2.
5. and let’s not forget, Israel is not self sustaining entity, it depends on infusions (money, equipment, resources) from its sponsor US which has problems of it’s own
So, regardless of military matters, longer this last less of Israel will be there. Even IRA figured out that body count matter less, than downtime in stock market in downtown London with every bomb threat called in. Every air raid siren in Israel kills it more than actual explosion on the ground.
Posted by: Abe | Nov 23 2023 23:30 utc | 104
Posted by: pq | Nov 23 2023 22:15 utc | 99
Thanks for the reply and for the reference. Albanese was careful to designate Hamas as an “armed resistance”, avoiding the corporate media’s “terrorist group”. She also insisted that if Hamas were destroyed, some other resistance would replace it. Everything she said about the oppression supports the idea that resistance is justified.
Myself, I have argued that, since the genocide is a crime against humanity, those who are aware of it are under obligation to try to stop it. Not using whatever resources are at one’s disposal to make such an effort constitutes complicity. To be guilty of complicity does not require that one express intent, unlike in the case of the perpetrators. Hence, one can argue that Hamas has an obligation to resist and — as much as possible — thwart the crime.
Beyond that, there is Gareth Porter’s article today in Consortium News: “IDF Knew Real Hamas HQ While Lying About al-Shifa”. That means that EVERYTHING done to the al-Shifa hospital was 100% gratuitous, and the attempt at a fig leaf by Israel by claiming that it was a Hamas headquarters is null and void. In short, it was all pure sadistic malice.
Posted by: RJPJR | Nov 23 2023 23:35 utc | 105
Bill Wolfe @ 64:
I would have replied earlier to you saying that the analogy between Russia’s SMO and Israel’s Gaza operation is forced and false, but JB @ 92 pipped me. Although my understanding is that Varoufakis lumped Russia and Israel together, not Russia and Hamas together.
Russia is carrying out its SMO to defend the Russophone speakers in the original breakaway parts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts (administrative regions) that declared themselves independent of the post-2014 regime in Kiev. A ceasefire had been declared after the brief civil war in 2014. Ukraine had been planning to breach that ceasefire in early 2022 with an army of some 200,000+ soldiers after years of harassment and violence resulting in some 14,000 deaths (including targeted assassinations of the political and military leaders of the breakaway Donetsk republic) over a period spanning nearly eight years.
If an analogy is to be drawn between Russia’s SMO and the present situation in the Middle East, then Russia is in a position similar to what Yemen has taken in seizing the MV Galaxy Leader in the Red Sea, to warn Israel that there are other ways of fighting a war.
One must question Yanis Varoufakis’s motives in equating Russia and Israel together. One thing is certain, he is no supporter of Russia’s current leadership.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Nov 23 2023 23:35 utc | 107
Haaretz has not been shut down. For the actual story see “Minister suggests sanctions on Haaretz for ‘false propaganda’ but action unlikely” Times of Israel today.
Posted by: Pundita | Nov 23 2023 21:19 utc | 88
Indeed, but still a step towards gagging dissenting voices nevertheless. There are even proposals to arrest the families of Israeli hostages because they dare to criticize the government!
Ex-spy Jonathan Pollard calls for arrest of Gaza captives’ families
Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Nov 23 2023 23:36 utc | 108
Fox news inadvertently catches the IDFout on fake terrorist attack and arrest for the foreign media in israel. They arrest a suspect, a man stripped searched blindfolded then ledaway. Off to the side as the reporter explains the danger you can see the guy released getting dressed again as IDF shoo the media away.
https://t.me/ResistanceTrench/21188
Posted by: Hankster | Nov 23 2023 23:39 utc | 109
Re: How Brutal are the English ?
This is an interesting topic. A few years ago, I decided to do some research on this western consensus about North Korea’s being so brutal, so wild, so unpredictable, so zombified… (notice that all of these characteristics could be applied to the West). Surely, everybody here has read all of these articles on how the current North Korean dictator murdered this or that person -that went from one of his most trusted generals to even his relatives. And to do this, he used extremely vicious methods such as strapping the victim to the end of a cannon and firing. I must confess I was aghast. However, as I enlightened myself -and this took some time of course- I came across a number of things. First, as opposed to what the western press -NYT, WaPo, WSJ, CNN, BBC, et al- said, Pyongyang was not the shithole they said it was. Quite the contrary. Now, of course, they say that people in the countryside are eating grass. Considering the lies that the western press has produced, I am sure this is not true. Regarding the brutal methods I mentioned at the beginning, it happens that it was the British who strapped the Indian sepoys in front of the cannon and then fired. Since this is not the thread for that, I won’t go into the other lies, but let me just finish by saying that there were a few instances when the “victim” of the North Korean leader that the western media had announced as assassinated appeared later in good health. I saw a couple of times when the NYT mentioned that, except that rather than showing the news in the first page, it appeared somewhere inside one of the sections in very small letters. Conclusion: never believe anything the West says. And every single crime the West accuses another country of doing, they are doing it, and this is true of Israel of course.
Posted by: Jaime | Nov 23 2023 23:56 utc | 110
Sakineh Bagoom 101
Thanks for this link to British-made famine in WW1. Very relevant to what is happening in Gaza now, because it disconnects the current Israeli starvation of Gaza from the motive
of islamophhobic racism , and shows it for what it is , a tool of British
colonisation of ,””” Greater Israel “””. I will continue inshallah to read it soon.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 24 2023 0:06 utc | 111
Pepe Escobar has a powerful piece up at The Cradle
https://new.thecradle.co/articles/gaza-a-pause-before-the-storm
The last
No mainstream media narrative, no PR move to soften the genocide, no containment of “public opinion turning on Israel” can ever cover the serial war crimes perpetrated by Israel and its allies in Gaza. Perhaps this is just what the Doctor – metaphysical and otherwise – ordered for mankind: an imperative global tragedy, to be witnessed by all, that will also transform us all.
Go read it!
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 24 2023 0:10 utc | 112
114
Netanyahu’s tantrums about 4000 BC Amaleks are just a smokescreen for British Tory Empire 2 colonial war crimes.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 24 2023 0:16 utc | 113
‘the female of the species is more deadly than the male’
as Kipling wrote.
There were women fighting Nazis in WW2. Of the 27 million Soviet people killed half must have been women and children. Some of their best snipers were women with hundreds of Nazis they each demilitarised. Many fighter pilots too! I thinks there was a famous naval captain or two. At least the Germans didn’t send theirs to the front as much ,afaik. Until the end with the Hitler youth.
Bareback the green sheep skin wearing wolverine is doing her best to make up for it with her throwback moments though:
“
Lord Bebo
@MyLordBebo
4h
🇩🇪🇵🇸🚨‼️ “Calling for a ceasefire is not the task of politics.”
— German FM, Baerbock “
She follows the Dark Side of Powerful women placed in high command- Thatcher, Albright, Clinton, ‘Kagan’ , Freedman , Haley , the demented VonDerLayen, all the WEF clones in charge re-nazification of Europe , half of the U.K. front benches … the heil Hitlering old lady breaking the internet tonight ! Including the bloodsucking child killing supporting bints of the media.
Etc. Etc
The apartheid illegal state trains their kids to be killers and haters and lets them become brutalised into xenophobia! There can be no hope for such a state, they strut the world, grotesquely wearing gold stars they put on in the UN and spit venom at women of the UN.
“ David Roth-Lindberg
@RothLindberg
Nov 19
What’s the difference between these Israeli children and the nazi-indoctrinated Ukrainian children singing anti-Russian hate songs and shouting sing heil?
Same hate, same racism, same dehumanization, same disregard for human life, same übermenschen ideal.
Max Blumenthal
@MaxBlumenthal
Nov 19
Israeli children sing to “annihilate everyone” in Gaza in genocidal war anthem
This Nazi-esque ethnosupremacist propaganda was published by Israel’s national broadcaster, @kann_news, and subsequently deleted
via @intifada
Nov 19, 2023 · 10:52 PM UT “
REAL, humane women are standing up agains Nazism.
‘ PALESTINE ONLINE 🇵🇸
@OnlinePalEng
17h
Renowned Egyptian actress Hend Sabry, who devoted 13 years to the World Food Programme, resigned citing the ongoing genocide in #Gaza. ‘
The security council today.
https://nitter.net/TalalAlhaj/status/1727413085604864479?
The Chinese chair had to intervene and deliver a soft spoken rebuke that slapped that down. The comments are great. After SF meeting at which Xi stated that the Multipolar are the new sheriffs in town – it seems some of the cowboys and bandits haven’t taken on the new reality and are as they say here ‘cruising for a bruising’.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 24 2023 0:29 utc | 114
Posted by: RJPJR | Nov 23 2023 21:32 utc | 91
Thank you for that background information, it is most interesting and supports my belief that PR companies are being paid tens of millions of dollars to smear any alternative view to that of the Israelis. An excellent example of that is former Israeli PM Ehud Barak being demonized for correctly stating on CNN that Israel built a tunnel network under al-Shifa hospital in the 1980s:
https://twitter.com/broseph_stalin/status/1727699480315675049
Hillel Neuer could have checked his facts before his hysterical outburst. Francesca Albanese’s trip to Australia is within her job function as a Special Rapporteur assessing the human rights situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territory.
Posted by: Menz | Nov 24 2023 0:58 utc | 115
Ehud Barak was a frequent guest at both Epstein’s apartment building where the girls were warehoused and the upscale Epstein housing unit purchased by Les Wexner and gifted to Epstein.
So it is interesting for Ehud to surface herein.
Posted by: Chaka Khagan | Nov 24 2023 1:11 utc | 116
Now this is a very savvy media production from the ayatollah khamenei regarding Israel’s energy imports. And a call to the major muslim suppliers to act as one.
https://t.me/ResistanceTrench/21194
Posted by: Hankster | Nov 24 2023 2:33 utc | 117
In the early 80’s I heard the late Russell Means give a speech that was on public radio in Lubbock, TX. It was titled “In order for the world to live, Columbus must die”. He then proceeded to make the case for the truth about Columbus and the colonialism that followed, to remove the lifetimes of BS. I’ll say now, and for much the same reasons; In order for the World to live, Israel must die.
Posted by: liveload | Nov 24 2023 3:02 utc | 118
It’s an entrenched cultural mindset; they’re born with and brainwashed with it throughout life.
Seldowitz, a former national security advisor in the Obama White House and number two at the State Department on Israel-Palestine Affairs – AND A ZIONIST JEW – was caught in the streets of New York spewing naked bigotry about Arabs and Muslims raping their daughters.
“Did you rape your daughter like Mohammed did?” Seldowitz -THE JEW- was caught asking the unnamed food cart worker on a chilly November night in New York. “If we killed 4,000 Palestinian kids, it wasn’t enough.”
Video – 2 mins
https://twitter.com/itslaylas/status/1726986614591885484
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/11/22/islamophobic-obama-official-harassed-russian-diplomats/
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7kxmwe/stuart-seldowitz-halal-cart-harassment
Nah, can’t be true, they’re not all like this. It’s only one guy.
He’s the exception not the rule, right?
And so the Israeli Jews spitting on Christians at religious events – Just a one off too … not the norm?
How could anyone ever choose hate or despise Jews for being aggressive intolerant pathological Zionist Jews?
Or be disgusted by them and their narcissistic arrogant evil they spread everywhere they go in this world?
It’s a damn mystery.
But how they end up in Official US Government positions like Blinken and this guy is clear and obvious.
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 24 2023 3:13 utc | 119
Calling it out,
Former Spanish Minister of Social Rights, Ione Belarra, who was sacked due to her criticism of Israeli genocide in Palestine, says Spanish President Sanchez’s trip to Tel Aviv helps whitewash war criminal Netanyahu.
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/89418
Posted by: Seer | Nov 24 2023 3:29 utc | 120
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 24 2023 3:13 utc | 122
What’s with all the anti-semitism, LD ????
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 24 2023 3:42 utc | 121
By all accounts there is no act so outrageous that Israel would not regard it as its RIGHT to do it.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 24 2023 4:34 utc | 122
Interesting that Ireland and many of its politicians have greatly criticized Israel for its genocidal actions, and just coincidently a school in Dublin is attacked by a man with a knife (at least three children injured) and anti-immigrant (i.e. racist) riots break out all over Dublin.
Funny how such coincidences tend to happen. When was the last time school children were attacked by a knife-wielding man in Ireland. Has it ever happened before?
You mean pointing out the overt repetitive intolerant and entrenched “bigoted racism” of mentally disturbed people LIKE Seldowitz, the Zionist Jew? I’m just ‘bad’ I suppose. If it walks like a duck …..
Grandiose Narcissism
People with this behavior were most likely treated as if they were superior or above others during childhood. These expectations can follow them as they become adults. They tend to brag and be elitist. Those with grandiose narcissism are aggressive, dominant, and exaggerate their self-importance. https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/narcissism-symptoms-signs
It’s a family thing …. it’s handed down like blonde hair, blue eyes, food preferences, CULTure and language. 🙂
Before the latest pathological example in public:
Seldowitz THE RACIST ZIONIST JEW was among a group of demonstrators against Russia at the United Nations following the launch of its military operation in Ukraine, and would stake out the entrance to the Russian mission in order to follow and insult diplomats leaving their workplace.
“He was persistent and he was personal. That’s the problem,” Polyanskiy insisted. “We don’t have problems with someone expressing concerns or disagreements with our policies, but when it becomes personal and a person really harasses and stalks women, insulting them, telling them they are ‘whores’ and all these things, this is something that we couldn’t put up with,” he told The Grayzone.
In one video obtained by The Grayzone, Seldowitz THE RACIST ZIONIST JEW EX-US GOVT OFFICIAL can be seen verbally assaulting a person taking a cigarette break outside the Russian mission to the United Nations. Seldowitz refers to the person’s female colleague as “whorish,” then approaches her and asks, “are you one of Putin’s prostitutes?”
According to Polyanskiy, the New York Police Department did nothing to stop Seldowitz THE BIGOTED RACIST or assist the diplomatic team in identifying their serial harasser, dismissing it as a free speech issue. Seldowitz THE ZIONIST JEW only called it quits when “ordinary Americans just tried to reason with him and to tell him that he’s doing bad things.”
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/11/22/islamophobic-obama-official-harassed-russian-diplomats/
I’m all for free speech and street protests — and people going over the top emotionally using excessive language in the middle of such events, because it is common place and understandable. Things can get heated when among crowds. Then there is this moving line that crosses over into the Criminal domain such as harassment, verbal abuse, stalking and intentional threatening behaviour towards specific targeted individuals.
And by their fruits thou shalt know them … in NYC as well as in Jerusalem or anywhere else for that matter. Cheers.
New uploads –
Piers Morgan vs Norman Finkelstein On Israel and Palestine 27 mins i’view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_Sh-ERypMA
RESPONSE – British author Douglas Murray brands Norman Finkelstein a ‘psychopath’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9vpjdNI97o
You Decide: Who is the worst ‘psychopath’ out of these three?
Who has been promoting the worst Ideology of racist bigotry and consistently carrying out violent terrorism and acts of genocide since the 1920s: The Zionist Jews or Palestinian Muslims?
You Decide.
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 24 2023 4:49 utc | 124
First:
Links to two versions of the content RJPJR mentioned.
National Press Club of Australia “IN FULL: Francesca Albanese’s Address to the National Press Club of Australia” 1:06:05 (YouTube). This one seems to be in mono for some reason and the applause is slightly more cut off.
Plaintext:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAnn07kilFk
ABC News (Australia) stream “IN FULL: UN Special Rapporteur on occupied Palestinian territories addresses Press Club | ABC News” 1:11:55 (YouTube). Small TV introduction before and some newscaster comments afterwards.
Plaintext:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmbH68cgcmM
Second:
Link to the content pq mentioned.
Syriana Analysis “The untold history of the militant group” [Hamas] interview by Kevork Almassian of historian Zachary Foster 54:53 (YouTube).
Plaintext:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsjAMnXu0xs
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Nov 24 2023 4:57 utc | 125
Maybe I should point out that I’m blue-eyed (used as a slur by some/many including blue-eyed people, a dictionary synonym of naive) and blonde (again often used as a pejorative) in case someone thinks it is important to know? (Well dark blonde with grey nowadays but still blue eyes).
Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Nov 24 2023 5:09 utc | 126
perer AU ” I would assume many of the settlers are first, perhaps second gen migrants that will likely return to their countries of origin.”
neither of these, most are zealots who came from France, US, Canada and were offered advantageous conditions to emigrate. more like crusaders, if you wish. french newspapers regularly carried articles about low income couples who decided to move there.
Posted by: Minaa | Nov 24 2023 5:13 utc | 127
Minaa | Nov 24 2023 5:13 utc | 130
Thanks. I did not now about the advantageous conditions to emigrate. I should have put migrants and fist gen rather than first and second gen. A lot of Russian jews also emigrated to Israel after the collapse of the Soviet Union so I assume a good proportion of them or their offspring will also be in the so called settlements.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 24 2023 5:30 utc | 128
@Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 24 2023 5:30 utc | 131
The Jewish Russian oligarch Abramovitch spent a lot of money funding those settlements. Other such oligarchs have Israeli citizenship.
Minaa @ 130, Peter AU 1 @ 131:
I have read that in Israel, couples are offered loans with lower interest rates and other financial inducements if they buy properties in the settlements rather than in pre-1967 areas in Israel.
Meanwhile some towns and villages in parts of pre-1967 Israel (such as in the north near the Sea of Galilee / Lake Kinneret) are disappearing due to depopulation and lack of immigrants.
Posted by: Refinnejenna | Nov 24 2023 5:47 utc | 130
Pepe Escobar has a powerful piece up at The Cradle
https://new.thecradle.co/articles/gaza-a-pause-before-the-storm
Go read it!
Posted by: psychohistorian | Nov 24 2023 0:10 utc | 115
When you’ve read it click on the link to Eric Li for a, imo, good analysis of ‘big pic’,
(the discussion of which should prolly go in the Open Thread).
Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 24 2023 5:56 utc | 131
Best advice for Benjamin is,
‘When you’re in a hole, stop digging’
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 24 2023 6:22 utc | 132
pq | Nov 23 2023 14:45 utc | 5
YES, yes yes!
Mearsheimer, Crooke, Sachs… and add in MacGregor, Larry Johnson, and …. a conga line of others. Violent US Empire shills one and all. 🙂
“Anyone who says we want a “political resolution” [ or a TWO State solution] is not an honest analyst [ or commentator but a US ZIONIST SHILL ]. If they were [GENUINE HONEST], they would say International law and past rulings against Israel must be enforced ”
YES!
“-they would use the words like genocide, war crimes, ethnic cleansing in reference to Israel citing sources.”
YES!
I try to emphasise these aspects in everything I share about Palestine – it all began in 1922 and not Oct 7th.
The coverup of Zionist / Israeli Crimes goes back 100 years. And it is all documented. It is all known. None of it is secret.
U.S. has ALWAYS been Helping Israel To Commit And Hide War Crimes!
And Israel’s very existence is a Crime Against Humanity.
It’s obvious. Just look at the known historical facts. It is plain to see.
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 24 2023 6:59 utc | 133
@ waynorinorway | Nov 24 2023 5:56 utc | 134
Thanks for that Escobar article from The Cradle. I noted the following especially:
Enter the India-Middle East Corridor(IMEC) – actually the EU-Israel-Saudi Arabia-Emirates-India Corridor – conceived by Washington as the perfect vehicle for Israel to become an energy crossroads power. It fancifully imagines a US-Israel energy partnership trading in US dollars – simultaneously replacing Russian energy to the EU and halting a possible export increase of Iran’s energy to Europe.
That sounds like the kind of thinking the latest atrocities are motivated from.
Posted by: Norwegian | Nov 24 2023 7:07 utc | 134
64 Bill Wolfe. Opposite positions in relationship to US world empire: the Zionist entity an agent; Russia an adversary. Palestine a resistor; Ukraine a cooperative tool.
Roger | Nov 24 2023 5:36 utc | 132
I have read, I think according to what Putin has said, there are two million Russians in Israel. I assume these are jewish and still have Russian citizenship. Due to the number, I had thought that must have been due to the 90’s in Russia as Judaism is recognized as one of the four state religions in Russia so thanks for that info.
Refinnejenna | Nov 24 2023 5:47 utc | 133
As with the others, thanks. I’m just not up to digging all this stuff up myself now. I have read that the settlements also act as a line of defense, so fighting age males/people being encouraged to move to them makes a lot of sense.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 24 2023 7:23 utc | 136
@ Norwegian | Nov 24 2023 7:07 utc | 137
Actually Psychohistorian gets the thanks, but in the quote you just posted let us hope that
the part “It [D.C.] fancifully imagines a US-Israel energy partnership trading in US dollars…”
remains a fancy/fantasy.
Posted by: waynorinorway | Nov 24 2023 7:32 utc | 137
Here in UK the nazi dictatorship running our country have started using a new (read old) psychological weapon. Switched on in just the last 24 hours.
This is a ‘heads up’ becouse it needs watching and is very very significant.
2 weeks ago 1 million pro palistien protestesters marched through london scaring the pants of the guv; the media and the jews, and helped to draw atention to the people in gaza and West bank.
2 weeks on and now the nazi plan is….
Imigration narative.
Designed to whip up a counter protest, enabling the guv to clamp down on both protests but obveously with the main objective of stopping /silencing anti israel free speech.
This is the plan, a big plan. It will spread like wilder fire through out europeian media and America.
We are all palastinians now ! You better belief it.
Cheers.
Ps note riots in N Irland last night after a day of media hype plus wilder in holland big vote.
Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 24 2023 7:48 utc | 138
Put more simply they will manufacture a violent counter demonstration and then bring in laws and ristrictions on both protests curtaing the genuine Gaza march.
The concern is it will work.
The concern is its an election year and a tried and tested sucssefull ‘false flag’
Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 24 2023 8:11 utc | 139
The concern is it will work.
The concern is its an election year and a tried and tested sucssefull ‘false flag’
Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 24 2023 8:11 utc | 142
Nothing new. It’s The way it’s always been.
They can lie, conceal, misdirect, distract all they’re doing is putting band-aids on a bullet wound in the fabric of global human consciousness.
This kind of thing doesn’t come free, it’s a loan taken on the future and Reality eventually comes around to collect – with interest.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 24 2023 8:20 utc | 140
That US is using israel rather than Israel using the US is I think correct. It could be a little each way at times but overall it is the US that is using Israel. AS RFK made very clear when he stated openly that Israel is an Unsinkable aircraft carrier in the region that allows the US some form of control over the Persian Gulf oil.
…
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 23 2023 16:39 utc | 30
It may have started out that way, but at the present time, AIPAC has a strangle-hold on who may hold political office in the USA, and the US State Dept. is a wholely owned subsidiary of Jewish interests. To be allowed to hold political office in the USA, one must bend a knee to Jewish/Zionist interests. Politicians stepping out of line are crushed by adverse monetization of their run for re-election (see AIPAC).
Someone here on MoA pointed out during the last week that the USA spends more per-capita on Israelis than on American citizens. (courtesy the annual $3+Billion tithe to Israel.)
During Kennedy’s era, the USA retained a modicum of independence (despite the USS Liberty incident (how apt the metaphor)).
The Jewish people are a fractious lot. I know they are not all Zionists, and I really appreciate those Jews who have called out the Genocide and/or Ethnic Cleansing going on in Israel. But when push comes to shove, wagons will be circled.
I can’t say which Jewish faction if any is ascendent, but it is undeniable to me at least, that the question of “Does the USA run Israel or does Israel run the USA?” is a fool’s question to obfuscate the reality: non-Jews either need not apply, or may aspire only to sock-puppet roles. Didn’t Netanyahu just trumpet about Israel’s “Iron-Dome over the US Congress” ?
Particularly curious is the recent wave of “populist election wins” (Milei in Argentina, and the fellow in the Netherlands). Populist backlash for “their people” but their first order of business is to express their undying support for Israel, not for their people. Curious that. Exactly which populs are these populists representing? (Trump is the same.)
Posted by: retroflecks | Nov 24 2023 8:25 utc | 141
@Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 23 2023 22:32 utc | 101
“well before the MI6 engineered overthrow of Mosadegh, in 1953”
And I return to my repetitive rant about the UK/US also being behind the 25 years later removal of the shah and the insertion of the so called ‘Ayatollah’ Khomeini. He became it in order to be protected against legal moves against him in the 1960s and didnt become it along the normal sequence of career steps you would expect for a career among religious folks.
And not only was Khomeini lacking in speaking the language, (according to those fluent in it he spoke something like 200 words), in addition there are rumours about him being the son of William Richard Williamsson from Bristol UK
He was a british spy working in the oil industry who went native living like a muslim with four wives.
Officially Khomeini’s father was from India but not even Khomeini’s son denied in 2011 that Khomeini’s background was obscure.
I have seen it stated that there is no DNA proof of the above mentioned relation but neither was it stated that any effort to find DNA information had ever been performed.
And the removal of the shah had more dramatic consequences for the whole world. It was part of a US/UK led effort to crush a competing petro-currency involving all the rivals of the US/UK
So its omission by the seriously underperforming professions of historians and journos alike should come as no surprise
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Nov 24 2023 8:27 utc | 142
Middle East Eye reports:
Middle East Eye’s Maha Hussaini is still on the ground in Gaza. She reports that Israeli forces are firing towards Palestinians to deter them from returning home during the four-day truce.
“Israeli forces open fire towards Palestinians trying to return to their homes east of Maghazi in Central Gaza, around two and a half hours after the pause went into effect,” said Hussaini.
“I’m standing on the rooftop of our house of refuge, and I can hear Israeli gun machines in the east.”
Posted by: Exile | Nov 24 2023 8:44 utc | 143
retroflecks | Nov 24 2023 8:25 utc | 144 “”Does the USA run Israel or does Israel run the USA?” ”
I am starting to see it as the anglo deepstate using the likes of AIPAC to control politicians. In saying that, many of the US politicians are zionist. AIPAC I feel, though real is somewhat of a red herring.
The “populist election wins”. Yep I have the same thoughts. I think we are watching the empire strike back at the multipolar world. A pivot onto BRICS et al and dedollarization rather than a pivot onto China.
I believe both Putin and Lavrov have spoken about the so called far right, fascist, nazi, neo nazi, or whatever the description may be arising once again in Europe. Hence Russia’s great increase in arms production, along with ongoing R&D for new weapons system. I have the impression Russia views Ukraine as the training and testing ground for what they see as future threats from Europe.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 24 2023 8:50 utc | 144
@retroflecks | Nov 24 2023 8:25 utc | 144
I agree about the facts but my interpretation is different
The neocons whose ‘father’ is supposed to be Leo Strauss (while Cynthia Chung points to the Oxford-associated James Burnham as a deeper origin) and Strauss argued that one must be a tyrant to avoid being tyrannised
The logic there in my view is that such people need to identify with the empire. Thus they become a more or less indistinguishable part of it. And Israel when seen as the beachhead of that empire needs to be attractive for those front forces to be willing to serve there. Otherwise many jews would leave and there would be braindrain.
Zionism is the cohesive kit needed to keep it together like nazism was for Hitlers third Reich.
Bismarck who was removed by the interference of the prince of Wales, was more inclined to expand trade on the continent and to avoid any conflict with Russia. Nazism had to be imposed on Germany by a long term british psychological operation involving the Palmerston environment and all the way to Houston Chamberlain and Edward VIII.
So even though I agree that people with strong ties to Israel have managed to infiltrate the system, this phenomenon may be traced back to how Britain organised it with Palmerston being a key operator during 1843-1860 despite that being omitted by historians.
The purpose of B’nai B’rit and the ADL and AIPAC which branched from it was Britains means to infiltrate the US together with two different anglophile secret societies one of which is supoosed to have had German origin while all its members were just as anglophile as “The Group” Carroll Quigley described but whose actual name was the Pilgrim Society
You might add the jesuites but they were also already infiltrated from the start by the Venetian oligarchy and that latter was transplanted to England.
One more component: The Illuminati. It was officially founded in 1776 the same year and only a month earlier than the US declaration of idependence. Since several of Washingtons generals were freemasons hat meant a serious rift within anglosaxon freemasonry.
So Britain had a strong motive to find a way to regain that lost control.
Was illuminati requested by Britain? I dont know but since the Rothschilds did have some kind of interaction with Weisshaupt before 1776 they may have been Britains middlemen and their entrance in British banking may have been the reward.
So what I am implying is a full spectrum dominance and infiltration from the british empire in every other secret society while no other grouping has been able to act like that.
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Nov 24 2023 8:57 utc | 145
@Lavrov’s Dog and others, while I mostly agree,I believe there must be a separation between ordinary religious folks and fascist imperial geopolitical villainy.
The Zion iteration of Empire was planned long before 1920’s.
I have stated multiple times that the English Aristo Rulers in Government had actively promoted the Israel Project in The Levant at least since the early C19th.
HISTORY
‘ In 1838, an Arab revolt took place in Greater Syria, run by Muhammad Ali, the Ottoman viceroy of Egypt. British Foreign Secretary Palmerston offered the Sultan of Turkey British help in putting down the revolt, and in return, Britain was given the right to establish a vice-consulate in Jerusalem. Once this beachhead for the Empire was secured, the British decided to use a fledgling Zionist movement as their proxy, to increase their presence in the Holy Land.
In 1840, Palmerston sent a letter to the British ambassador in Constantinople, instructing him to contact the Sultan:
”There exists at the present time among the Jews dispersed over Europe, a strong notion that the time is approaching when their nation is to return to Palestine…. It would be of manifest importance to the Sultan to encourage the Jews to return and settle in Palestine because the wealth which they would bring with them would increase the resources of the Sultan’s dominions; and the Jewish people, if returning under the sanction and protection and at the invitation of the Sultan, would be a check upon any future evil designs of Muhammad Ali or his successor. I have to instruct Your Excellency strongly to recommend the Turkish government to hold out every just encouragement to the Jews of Europe to return to Palestine.
“
In 1845, Edward Ledwich Mitford, one of Palmerston’s collaborators in the Foreign Service and a political supporter, published “An appeal in Behalf of the Israel Nation in Connection with the British Policy in the Levant.” The piece called for the “final establishment of the Jewish nation in Palestine as a protected state under the guardianship of Great Britain.” Mitford reasoned that such a state would “place the management of our steam communication entirely in our hands and would place us in a commanding position in the Levant from whence to check the process of encroachment, to overawe open enemies and, if necessary, to repel their advance.”
That is undeniable HISTORY. It is proof the Jewish religion and its ordinary day to day believers are PAWNS in the Great Games of Imperialism. It is not the only religion that has been used by the charlatan robber barons.
Religion , xenophobia , dog whistle propaganda, agitators and false flag attacks are the weapons used to rile the masses.
Israel was a Project. A imperialist one.
It exists as a militarised state. Almost all Israelis are enlisted in their lives and thus brutalised.
They are raised to believe they live in constant danger.
The American settlers being attacked by the native Indians type of belief.
There is only one long term solution that does not involve extermination of the natives of the Levant. That is the same end as has been inflicted on many of these older imperialists.
WITHDRAWAL.
When the locals have had enough and organised. Independence follows.
Often through bloody war. It’s never perfect. Gandhi managed it for the Indian subcontinent, Mandela for South Africa.
Many others around the world too. Bolivar in the South Americas etc.
There is just that solution, that is the only long term one.
An end to the Israel Project. It can start with a genuine 2-state implementation.
With the Apartheid States delimitation to where it was in 1948.
t can start with the 2 states
It would end up as one by the choice of those two staters within a few generations.
That would be the viable prosperous country that was not just a homeland for a single religion.
It requires the colonialist settlers to be repatriated back to their original homelands.
That is not negotiable- they were imperial settlers sent or who chose to go make a better life in lands that were not theirs. Like the now Yanks and the rest of the 5 Eyes have done for centuries
Many as I say could choose to carry on living there in the ‘ex-Israel’ as many colonial settlers did in ex European colonial nations. They’d be part of making that new state a success. They would have to dump their baggage of the Mother/Father Anglo European imperialism. That has been successful in many now independent states most recently Ex Apartheid Imperial Colony of South Africa ; It can in the much newer Apartheid State of Israel.
Who is stopping it? Go back to the 1840’s at least it is easy to see who the villains are.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 24 2023 9:18 utc | 146
The situation has crossed the line of the unbearable.
Everything, everyone has come out clearly.
From now on there will be no innocent, no unwilling accomplice.
No middle ground left.
Henchmen on one side, victims on the other.
Your choice.
Be saved by your fear if not by your perfect Dikè.
Posted by: Greg Galloway | Nov 24 2023 9:46 utc | 147
An interesting and imo overlooked bit from Xi’s statement regarding Palestine at the BRICS+ summits (via Xinhua)
Xi said the root cause of the Palestinian-Israeli situation is the fact that the right of the Palestinian people to statehood, their right to existence, and their right of return have long been ignored. He said there can be no sustainable peace and security in the Middle East without a just solution to the question of Palestine.
Mentioning Palestinians’ right of return seems to be a significant choice, as it greatly complicates any form of the two state solution that the Americans would even pretend to support. For many people, acknowledging Palestinians’ collective right to return to their homes would even threaten Israel’s existence as a Jewish state (and rightly so, one thinks). I’m not too familiar with the intricacies of China’s position on the topic, having long dismissed it as ineffectual and somewhat depressing, so I wonder about the significance of the statement.
Posted by: rio | Nov 24 2023 10:09 utc | 148
One gets the sense that Netanyahu want to do his thingy behind Russia’s back, using his signature whataboutism. Alas, he stole the limelight in a matter of days and subjected his operation, not to say his judgment, to merciless scrutiny. Israel is not Russia but more like Ukraine. Judging by the reports from Israel’s neighbours far and near, Israel is now getting attrited like Ukraine. Israel did agree to a ceasefire, which Zelensky never did, which may merely indicate that Netanyahu realized how hopeless his situation was. Z is an actor, Netanyahu is the real deal, whatever else he may be.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 24 2023 10:15 utc | 149
retroflecks | Nov 24 2023 8:25 utc | 144 “”Does the USA run Israel or does Israel run the USA?” ”
I am starting to see it as the anglo deepstate using the likes of AIPAC to control politicians. In saying that, many of the US politicians are zionist. AIPAC I feel, though real is somewhat of a red herring.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 24 2023 8:50 utc | 147
I’m agreeing with you, until you suggest that AIPAC is a red herring. To AIPAC, add the ADL.
“Find out who you cannot criticize, then you will know who your real masters are.” (who said this?)
“If they’re black, it’s a gang. If they’re Italian, it’s the mafia. If they’re Jewish, it’s just a coincidence, and you must never ever mention it.” — Dave Chapelle.
Yes, sure, it’s the DeepState, but we may criticize the DeepState as a whole. But whenever I happen to discover the authors of particular US policies currently destroying America, Ukraine/Russia, Europe, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya… and Palestine… there’s a certain religio-ethnic homogeneity to the principle movers.
I’m sure it’s just a coincidence.
We’re all Palestinians now, or soon will be.
Posted by: retroflecks | Nov 24 2023 10:24 utc | 150
@retroflecks | Nov 24 2023 10:24 utc | 153
I agree that it isnt a coincidence. It is a consequence of that groups participants being among those who identify with the empire
together with the fact that the financiers often belong to that group.
This places them in a heavy dependence on the strength of that empire.
An empire doesnt need any private bankers. It would do fine with a national bank where the staff wouldnt have to be exceeedingly wealthy.
Just welleducated state employees.
But when they are private and belong to a minority they need protection by the empire so the empire can make use of that groups members as middlemen for running the dirty jobs. They will be the pretorians both in a military sense, for revolutionary activities against the empires rivals and in the sense of financial operators
I think the english in the 16th century perhaps under strong influence from more experienced venetian agents understood that basic context.
Venice had practised it and as England became Britain and an empire it made use of it.
It is part of the empires policing of that group to keep them aligned that they need to be seen in a negative light by the rival nations.
Like an annoying and mysteriously untouchable group.
If you agree with me that Jack Ripper in 1888 was a masonic death threat against the whole Rothschild clan in order that they stay lojal with the british empire, then you also have to admit that the bankers power was not what you thought.
And you would then have reason to notice that the highest masons were all anglosaxons over a critical period of modern history mening they had a higher rank than the bankers.
And there is death penalty for perceived treason among high masons.
Posted by: petergrfstrm | Nov 24 2023 10:49 utc | 151
Good catch there Rio – right of return is a core premise of international law, Peking mentioning it is significant. Peking therefore supports return of refugees to their properties in Jaffa and Deir Yassin for example.
The Likud still thinks it’s 1967, meanwhile the constellation of forces has changed big time.
Posted by: Exile | Nov 24 2023 10:49 utc | 152
Jonathon W 152
Netanyahu is the real deal, whatever else he may be.
Yes, and Ian McKellen is the real Gandalf. Its vital for USUKIS that the world observing Israel suspends disbelief in order to accept the USUKIS endgame of the birthing of Greater Israel for which it has destroyed Syria and Iraq.
Netanyahu might not be as subtle an actor as Zelensky with his mythical relationship with Azov Nazis and Ukrainian generals, but his political funcation is exactly the same, to wrest physical control of sovereign nations from their current owners and into the hands of Piratical Anglosaxon predators.
I know, I know. I really love Gandalf, and the great Shakespeare actor inside him. But inside that is a little old man who eats Over 60s buttered toast and soup and unlimited tea for £ 1.00 in Asda .
I hate the back up team .
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 24 2023 10:55 utc | 153
17″The Israeli have the brains and the money.”
Posted by: Augusto Pi | Nov 23 2023 15:53 utc | 17
If they they had ‘brains’ they wouldn’t be committing spiritual and eventually national suicide by genociding fellow human beings.
As for ‘money’ , Plato comments: “If a rich man is proud of his wealth, he should not be praised until it is known how he employs it. ”
Israel employing their money to bomb children in a concentration camp is certainly not a praiseworthy event unless you are a chronic sadist such as yourself.
Pi you have the morality of a demonic soul and the common sense of a rabid rabbit.
Here is a rough guide to figuring out who is a genuine commentator
Posted by: pq | Nov 23 2023 14:45 utc | 5
You could have added Berletic in the category of, clueless on the Middle East. Berletic promotes the idea Hamas is working hand in hand with Israel, because Israel once used Hamas as an obstruction against the PA, and Hamas is basically the Muslim Brotherhood… who are in the West’s pocket. Berletic adds breathlessly, Hamas fought in Syria against Assad (maybe they don’t like Assad policies). Berletic was OK on Ukraine but on Gaza he’s worthless.
Posted by: jasmin | Nov 23 2023 16:11 utc | 24
I like Berlectic, yet I agree he is off base on the Gaza situation, he is very good on the SMO.
Israelis continue to flaunt their unbridled hatred and bloodlust for the world. The true ideological decendents of the Nazis. They have ensured the end of their fascist shitstain of a country comes sooner than later. All this chest beating and child killing stems from their fundamental insecurity. They seem to think presenting a fait accompli though the slaughter of thousands and thousands of innocents everything will continue business as usual with the world. They seem unaware or more precisely uncaring they are committing a holocaust on Palestinians..and what that means to the world and to their precious victim narrative. They think because everyone is reacting in shocked horror they have carte blanche, the imbecilic bedwetting scum.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 23 2023 17:15 utc | 35
Sigmund Freud here, ( a pause as he takes a long puff from his cigar) you see it is just like the Father beating his child. Here the Father is Nazi Germany and the child is Jewish prisoners. The survivors, unconsciously, learn survival techniques from the father. When they become adults they will use the same behaviour as they project their own viciousness onto their own children which they will attempt to destroy bypassing all basic moral considerations.
A cure? There is no cure for this type of monumental psychopathological behaviours it is ingrained so deeply; the only ‘cure’ is internment in a mental hospital or interment in a secure prison.
Posted by: pq | Nov 23 2023 14:45 utc | 5
‘You will never see Crooke writing an article headlined: the IMMORAL justification for Israel’s war. The whole point of his article, even if it accurately depicts Israel’s demented and genocidal state of mind is to subconsciously imply that the justification is not IMMORAL. He’ll push “religious civilization clash” too since he spent his entire MI6 career working with Israel to develop that narrative.’
Your comment is absolutely untrue with respect to Alastair. I watched Alastair Crooke on Judge Andrew Napolitano’s show (the good Judge is a man I greatly admire and trust). Alastair clearly stated that what is happening is without morality and has descended into lawlessness. He is clearly VERY troubled by the actions of Israel and points to the fact that more than 80% of Jews are in agreement with the government on this genocide. He cites the reasons as being eschatogical, where the desire is to reestablish the land of biblical Israel while expelling all Arabs from the land who refuse to accept the land as Israel and pledge allegiance to the Jewish state.
Posted by: Áobh O’Sheachnasaigh | Nov 23 2023 17:28 utc | 38
I like Crooke, I agree with you. Remember Crooke is trying to change minds-if he becomes too bombastic about Israeli behaviour he will lose minds. He is trying to be temperate and one can tell how much this genocide hurts his soul.
Hamas fought in Syria against Assad (maybe they don’t like Assad policies).
Posted by: canuck | Nov 24 2023 11:10 utc | 158
As they say: “Keep your friends vlose but your enemies closer.” Does it matter who is in whose pocket when anyone can change alliances as fast as we have seen happen in the Middle East this year alone?
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 24 2023 11:32 utc | 158
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 24 2023 10:55 utc | 156
Speaking of which, give us some Islam.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 24 2023 11:35 utc | 159
canuck 158
I love Berletic . He is entirely his own man. He sees the dots and joins them.
Hamas is an Islamist tool , goaded by Zionist racism to desperate action, armed maybe by Russia/ Iran ( ? ) or by USUKIS (?) Yes probably by Biden. Zionist racism is a creation of centuries old divide and rule Anglosaxon piracy and plunder, which is wholly owned, instructed and empowered by USUKIS .
I don’t hate Muslim Brotherhood for swallowing the USUKIS chicken corn trail to Islamism 100 % agaibst the teachings of the Qur’an . It took many centuries of Crusader butchery to create the conditions of Ignorance in the Muslim world. But I call it out as fake, like Brian Berletic and I strongly admire both him and Thierry Myessan of Voltairenet for doing so.
They are both political analysts and that is all. Both beautifully undistorted by the bullshit of religion . If there is any real Islam in the modern world, it lives in Afghanistan which kicked out USUKIS, or Malaysia which indicted USUKIS for the destruction of the MH
flights. All else is at some level USUKIS power games.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 24 2023 11:39 utc | 160
Jonathon W 162
Sorry, right now I have to do some Islam, by reading Chapter The Cave of the Qur’an. Bye.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 24 2023 11:44 utc | 162
Re: Blind Rage of Defeated Army
Middle East Eye reports:
The Israeli army has withdrawn from the Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City and has blown up a number of its facilities, according to the Turkish news outlet Anadolu Agency.
For weeks Israel allged that one of Gaza’s largest hospitals was a “command and control centre” for Hamas.
Israel failed to produce much evidence of that despite controlling the medical facility for more than a week.
Posted by: Exile | Nov 24 2023 12:00 utc | 164
“By 1918, Churchill had recognised the necessity of extracting ME oil for fuel. The British plan of a Zionist state was an oven-ready colonial plan for the US to implement. The only thing missing was a justification to do it, which Hitler ‘s Holocaust furnished, not by accident.”
No, not 1918 , Churchill in one of his first acts as Navy Secretary in 1911 (1) he switched the Royal Navy from coal (which UK had in plenty) to oil .
The major impetus for WW1 was oil; in fact the UK declared war on its traditional ally, Germany, because Germany was planning a railroad from Berlin to Baghdad (2) thereby cutting the UK’s oil grass.
In 1895 Churchill’s father, Lord Randolph, died. He died owing Nathan Rothschild 60,000 pounds about $10MM dollars today. Rothschild wrote off the debt which Churchill repaid in 1920-21 when he was the Minister of Colonies and gave a blind eye to Jewish illegal immigration to Palestine.
1.https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/profiles-leadership-churchill-switches-royal-navy-oil-steenkamp#:~:text=Yet%2C%20in%201911%2C%20the%20new,could%20travel%20twice%20as%20far.
2.https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA138432
Exile | Nov 24 2023 10:49 utc | 155, did you mean Beijing?
Posted by: Lantern Dude | Nov 24 2023 12:20 utc | 166
Latern Dude,
Guess I’m showing my age. BTW I still use Batavia, Ceylon, and even Lemberg 😳
Posted by: Exile | Nov 24 2023 13:25 utc | 167
Let us place odds on the ceasefire 🙂 We’ll multiple choice it and then someone good at horseracing lingo create the statistical odds:
A) It holds — for four whole days!
B) It is broken by Hamas (or the Resistance)
C) It is broken by Israel
D) It is broken by a false flag that says Israel broke it
E) It is broken by a false flag that says Hamas (or the Resistance) broke it
(I know I am biased using actual past history as recounted by Norman Finklestein as a guide I’d put 1:1 odds on C, so others better versed in odds booking should do this. I thought this’d be a cynical distraction to our ongoing mind-crushing horror to keep us holding on. Who knows, maybe E has 1:10 odds given the Mossad motto “By deception you will make war”? Yeah, let’s let others volunteer odds for this.)
Posted by: titmouse | Nov 24 2023 13:27 utc | 168
According to Al Ahram Egypts AlSisi said : “The only solution to the Palestinian issue isthe establishment of a Palestinian state alongside Israel, within the borders of 4 June (1967), with East Jerusalem as its capital.”
El-Sisi expressed readiness to accept a demilitarized Palestinian state, potentially with the presence of international forces -whether from NATO, the United Nations, or American or Arab forces—to guarantee security for both the Palestinian and Israeli states.
This statement is astounding, and deeply concerning in its implications, but also as coming from a BRICS country.
The ideas being floated about the future of Pleastine and the establishment of a Palestinian state are of crucial importance for the Palestinians.
But also for all of us, for the world as a whole, because the collective injustice forced on the Palestinians (and the Arabs, who initially rejected the planting of a Zionist state in Palestine) prevents attaining world peace (and harmony, a community with a shared future, to use the Chinese phrase) which are premiised on freedom, equaliity, justiice, and trust.
There should be no dispute at all that the Palestinians are the ones who should decide their future. That is why the referendum that Iran is proposing is the right form and procedure for a decision on the future state of Palestine.
The ideas being floated currently are focused on how “the international community” should decide the future of Palestine and Palestinians.
But didn’t that same ‘international community’ already make a decision on Palestine, which brought us to the present unhindered mass murder of Palestinians by the Zionist state that the “international community” simply decided to establish on the larger part of Pallestine. The criminal behvaiour of the Zionist state has since been the cause of all trobule in the Middle East.
So, when are the Palestinians going to get to decide their own future? Why is it that others should determine the very existence of a whole people, wronged like no other? What is the basis for others to decide where and how the Palestinians should live, in particular in view of the fact that those others gave their land, Palestine, and most of it, to Zionists? What is the logic, the justification for others to decide the fate of Palestinians, again?
And now, we have the Egyptian president accepting the idea of a “demilitarised” Palestinian state, and an international force made up precisely of those who are enabling the cirrent mass murder operation!? The Egyptian presiident is, no doubt, voicing schemes of his US/Western friends.
The thought of a demilitarised Palestinian state is inherently and thoroughly – vile. Injustice supreme. To demilitarise Palestinians next to a nuclear, and to the teeth armed, aggressive state driven by a supremacist and eliminationist ideology is beyond lunacy.
It is perfidious and should be rejected outright. It’s purpose is to ensure Israel’s position as the main instrument of imperial and hegemonic power in the Middle East. It has nothing to do with Israel’s safety, because Israel is not threatened. Israel is the threat and the oppressor, and the opressed, terrorised and humiliated, rebel. That is the source of its insecurity, its understanding of itself and its own actions.
If that is correct, why are there no proposals to demilitarise Israel? If anyone should be demilitarised it is the Zionist state. (Ideally, we want a demilitarised world. Who needs all those expensive inventions whose purpose is to detsroy us.)
The thought of an international force, a peace keeping force, is equally perfidious because it has the very same goal – to reassure Israel that the mighty Palestinians will not endanger its holy existence.
First, when there is an international force, a peacekeeping force, that means there is no peace. Their presence tends to become long-lasting and is not conducive to establishsing permanent peace.
If it was to be a UN force, as South Africa, another BRICS country, is proposing, it would be useless, if it were ever formed.
UN peacekeeprs do not have a mandate to protect civilians.
They have repeatedly stood by to genocide and masssive crimes against humanity. Canadian general Roméo Dallair, commander of the UN force, tried to commit suicide because he was prevented from acting in the Rwanda genocide.
These perfidious ideas should be cause of great concern, and their acceptance by the likes of Al Sisi even more so.
If we as individuals are not able to stop the mass murder, we can at least stand in solidarity with the Palestinians by paying attention, vocally warning againts and rejecting any imposition of a solution on the Palestinian people.
Posted by: JB | Nov 24 2023 13:49 utc | 169
Posted by: titmouse | Nov 24 2023 13:27 utc | 171
Israel already took a shot at the ceasefire. It shot at Palestinians wanting to go from south to north to get stuff from their homes or look for people under rubble. Several were injured.
In the hour before the ceasefire it did a huge bombing with scores of dead and injured—keeping in mind there are no hospitals functioning.
Posted by: pq | Nov 24 2023 14:04 utc | 170
A cure? There is no cure for this type of monumental psychopathological behaviours it is ingrained so deeply; the only ‘cure’ is internment in a mental hospital or interment in a secure prison.
@ canuck | Nov 24 2023 11:28 utc | 159
You got that right Sigmund F 🙂
You know about his nephew Bernays too, yeah?
Projection? Yes but it doesn’t effect all equally, (doesn’t matter for the exception proves the rule) but generational it is. There is another aspect came to mind today from long ago. Belfast was a tourist attraction for a unique kind of person … wealthy murderers. You fly into Belfast stay a few days or week and indulge in your fantasies and were almost assured of getting away with it …. murders were happening all the time, what’s one or two more if they look like all the others? These were not “normal tourists”.
Israel attracts a special kind of person as a new immigrant, especially those happy to build a new life in the Occupied territories of the west bank. One they throw very cheap money at you to live there. and tons of support. In NYC, Miami, Moscow or Rio, you’re just another guy of millions. There’s the rules and the social expectations. You got money you;re alright. But life is vanilla generally and you don;t struggle ti get by. But you can’t go shooting at people and get away with it. In the west bank you can. There’s also more cheaper servile labour for Israelis at hand than homeless blacks and undocumented hispanics in the US.
Cheap land and home sin the occupied territories is better value than the midwest in the 1800s. The infrastructure and police/army is already there in force and operational to protect you and you and your property from the “natives”.
In the west bank you have an entire army there to protect you. How more self-important can you get than that? You’re surrounded by military swinging armed automatics off their shoulders just to protect you. IN a sea of people who supposedly hate you can do whatever you want go wherever you want say whatever you want shoot at whoever you want spit on whoever you want and be revered by all your peers for doing it.
It doesn’t get any better than this, anywhere else on Earth – you might have to duck a few rocks and the odd rocket but pretty much “you got the power”. You’re it. The very top of the Tree.
You can’t do that in NYC or Melbourne Australia …. what drab places they are after once setting foot in the land that God gave you. Nothing is more self-serving and self-important than that God has decreed this all for you – that’s how special you are.
Are that Narcissistic Supply …. “give it to me baby!”
Can you imagine being a Russian … and consciously choosing now today to emigrate to Ukraine and live in the middle of Kiev? Among millions of people who hate you? Crazy yeah? No one rational, or sane would do that.
And yet every day thousands of Jewish Zionists keep packing up and moving to Israel and the Occupied Territories to live among people they totally believe hate their fucking guts and want to kill them the first opportunity they get.
That’s a definition of insanity and multiple complex personality disorders right there int hat one step. It’s the supreme death wish, an attention seeking behavior and desire of excitement and danger that is off the scale of normal human psychology and behaviour.
It’s all psychology all the way down …. it is what every religion was based on (amateur psychology notions) as they tried to make sense of why do people do xyz, what’s a healthy way to live, before there was science and accumulated understanding. Now today it is so often ignored to protect the guilty.
Zionist Israel, the Jewish State is the high point of the truism:
“The sins of the father are visited upon the son.”
Just planting seeds …. who knows.
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 24 2023 14:04 utc | 171
Re: protectorate
The solution for a lasting peace and security for the Jewish State within the 181 borders is demilitarized with maybe 500,000 Chinese peacekeepers, protecting the local Jewish people.
Otherwise – there is little chance for peace and security ever to come to the Jewish state. The Likud failed.
Posted by: Exile | Nov 24 2023 14:18 utc | 172
retroflecks | Nov 24 2023 10:24 utc | 153
Red herring is probably the wrong term but all I could come up with. The zionist lobby group is no doubt a power in its own right. I do believe there is a five eyes deep state. The direction I’m leaning at the moment is perhaps the top of the five-eyes pyramid is in London.
The oath the Australian, Canadian and New Zealand PM’s have to give at their swearing in ceremonies is to pledge allegiance to the hereditary English monarch rather than to their own countries/the people of their own countries. That keeps those three of the five-eyes under control with perhaps AIPAC to keep the US under control.
There is a reasonable amount of evidence pointing towards Zionism being a British creation, and it was also the British that first printed the Scofield bible which has driven christian zionism in the US.
There is as yet not enough evidence to say with 100% certainty the Anglo power pyramid is as I have described, but I see many factors that point in that direction. Although Zionist groups are present in all of five eyes, US is hit especially hard and the jewish zionists in the US are supported by a large voting block of Christian zionists which, although present, are in much smaller numbers/percentage in the rest of five-eyes.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 24 2023 14:48 utc | 173
pq at 173, Well that was fast. 🙁 Even at 1:1 odds, and leaving it multiple choice C (statistically the most common right answer in multiple choice questions) I didn’t expect a speedrun to break it. At this point we need to find new words for “farcical yet still real diabolic evil.”
Posted by: titmouse | Nov 24 2023 14:51 utc | 174
He has studied them for a while. Of the current generation of militants 85% have lost family to previous Israeli violence.
Posted by: pq | Nov 23 2023 22:15 utc | 99
What is a militant in this context?
Posted by: Joey | Nov 24 2023 14:58 utc | 175
drone footage of protests for Palestine all over the world
wow
there are good people
we all need to see this
https://twitter.com/i/status/1727777217751441717
Posted by: ld | Nov 24 2023 15:02 utc | 176
I’m pretty outraged that my inner British values are pure fantasy.
I will have to re-educate my soul.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 23 2023 20:47 utc | 83
To get a better handle on the crimes in S. Asia, one has to read the accounts written by others than the likes of Encyclopedia Britannica, Wiki-stuff and UK govt. sources or the likes of Col Malleson of the occupational forces (his book-The Indian Mutiny of 1857). Anyway, it is the past. Most move on while some continue with their impositions on others as in today.
Incidentally, it was a failed ‘war of independence’ dubbed mutiny by the occupation forces. It did start out as a rebellion of the locally recruited soldiers (also called ‘natives’ by their foreign officers.
The word ‘sepoy’ was used for the Urdu/Hindi word ‘sipahi’ meaning soldier. Probably was too much of a tongue twister for the English speakers.
Posted by: Joey | Nov 24 2023 15:18 utc | 177
UN peacekeeprs do not have a mandate to protect civilians.
They have repeatedly stood by to genocide and masssive crimes against humanity.
Posted by: JB | Nov 24 2023 13:49 utc | 172
UN peacekeepers are intended to make sure the mass murder by the designated ‘right side’ continues uninterrupted.
They’re there to lay political groundwork.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 24 2023 15:36 utc | 178
this man is trying to take a picture of himself with his dead little girl
I cannot bear it
https://twitter.com/i/status/1727725388569395594
Posted by: ld | Nov 24 2023 15:40 utc | 179
Arch Bungle | Nov 24 2023 15:36 utc | 181 and JB
Rules based order at work. If this works according to what I believe Russia China strategy to be then we will see a different type of UN peacekeeping force (RoW) that will use force to keep the peace.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 24 2023 15:46 utc | 180
Israel-Palestine Weekly Update 24th Nov: May be useful to some: https://robcampbell.substack.com/p/israel-palestine-weekly-update-6f3
Posted by: Robert Hamilton Camp | Nov 24 2023 15:49 utc | 181
Garland Nixon does a brilliant take down of Sedowitz. George Szamuely interviews a member of Russia’s UN mission and the interview starts off with the RF mission’s past encounters with Sedowitz who harangued them for months while they had all their official complaints ignored. As long as Sedowitz was picking on Russian officials it didn’t matter, a closed universe, it was his “right to free speech in a free country” but he was actually arrested when he harangued a poor street vender in a video that went viral – at that point he exposed the snake headed hydra face of the Empire, out the windows goes his right to yell fire in a crowded theater and he’s quickly arrested. The Emperor shut the fool up.
For myself this guy’s a mess inside, like a horror movie villain or serial killer, dropping clues, sticking his head up, trying to get caught, something’s eating at him inside, maybe a troubling self awareness of his lack of conscience, fear of his own dark soul, troubled about his place in the universe. Some of you may laugh, I’m not actually the forgiving type, but the real amoral black souls are the ones for whom it’s impossible to have breakdowns, nothing eats at them, and they are the ones who shut him up. Or, maybe I’m reading too much into it and this guy is nothing more than the Emperor’s obnoxious yapping chihuahua.
Oh, and that crazy shit from Sedowitz about calling his pals in Egypt’s Mukhabarat on a street vendor, while you’re on the phone big shot why not run by them of your ideas about Muhammad and his daughter? Amazing self immolation, after this goes around the globe he might have to disappear into the witness protection program.
Stuart Sedowitz – Former Obama Official Exposes The Empire
The Gaggle Talks To Dmitry Polyanskiy
Berletic maybe nails it best, no five dimensional chess uber-genius illuminate conspiracy running the world, just unhinged, amorale, pitiful creatures like Sedowitz.
Ex-Obama Advisor EXPOSES Cruelty of Israel, Neocons w/ Brian Berletic
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 24 2023 16:39 utc | 182
JB 172
” There should be no dispute at all that the Palestinians are the ones who should decide their future. ”
There’s a lot of confusion about the synmbiotic relationship between political Islam and political Judairm I.e.Zionism.
The Muslim.Brotherhood, like all other political islamists takes power from USUKIS by submission to the enemies of Islam , but at the same time it demands submission to its authority from.ordinary Muslims who naturally don’t in any shape or form want to submit to two tiers of non-Muslim governance, the enemies of Islam and their colonial pimps.
Now, if the peeps get uppity, Muslim Brotherhood has two big sticks to enforce its authority on the Muslim population: 1/ direct threats from themselves and 2/ indirect threats from the Israeli overlords.
This genocide is 2/ , the enforcing of total obedience to the Muslim Brotherhood by the outrageous deployment of extreme violence.
NATURALLY the entire Western political class see this collective punishment as an irritating headmaster’s duty ” this is hurting me than it’s hurting you ” a warning from the luxuried West to Heel ! To your pimps ! We can’t be bothered with being nice like this a second time. Next time , you’ll be expelled for good.
In plain language the pimps of political Islam are bigger shits than the Israelis.
Posted by: Giyane | Nov 24 2023 16:53 utc | 183
Middle East Eye reports:
Israeli soldiers stormed the homes of Palestinian prisoners from occupied East Jerusalem set to be released as part of a prisoner swap deal between Palestinian groups and Israel, according to local reports.
Footage captured by Al Jazeera showed its Jerusalem correspondent and cameraman being manhandled by soldiers as they were reporting outside the home of detainee Amani Khaled Noman Hashem.
Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir had previously said he would crack down on any attempt to celebrate prisoner releases in Jerusalem.
Posted by: Exile | Nov 24 2023 16:56 utc | 184
Israeli soldiers stormed the homes of Palestinian prisoners from occupied East Jerusalem set to be released as part of a prisoner swap deal between Palestinian groups and Israel, according to local reports.
Posted by: Exile | Nov 24 2023 16:56 utc | 187
Something I predicted before the ‘hostage exchange’.
There is no point in HAMAS releasing hostages:
They get barely any respite from ZioNAZI bombings and the siege.
Hostages released by the Zionazis will simply be persecuted again.
Of course, ZioNAZIs as always go ten steps further and punish the families of those released.
This is the Satanic Inversion of Humanity represented by the Zionist Jew.
This is the world we can expect once it is remade in Their Image.
And if we think this is an Arab Problem, just you wait a little, there is no corner on this earth safe from their megalomania.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 24 2023 17:17 utc | 185
A good explanation is that the Dutch elected him because they are fed up with their immigrant population. Some recent example of why that would be so was the recent football hooliganism by the Moroccans.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 23 2023 18:10 utc | 48
———————————————————–
OT. I was born on a Dutch dairy farm during WWII, now out of business. The Dutch dairy industry was a major contributor to the recovery after WW II. Still in fourth place in worldwide ag exports.
After the farmer protests the Dutch populace never got a satisfying reaction from their government. Maybe another Wilders factor.
Posted by: Acco Hengst | Nov 24 2023 17:19 utc | 186
https://t.me/llordofwar/246375
🛢🇵🇸British Rights to the Gaza Marine Gas Field Expire in 2024
Vast energy reserves lie off the Gaza coast, The rights are currently contracted to British Petroleum and expire next year.
💰As I always say, follow the money…
Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 24 2023 17:54 utc | 187
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/4323678-how-netanyahu-could-beat-the-odds-and-stay-in-power/
I’ve been waiting for an ‘expert’ to say this. Yeah, yeah….bad polls, blah, blah. He may be the only statesman (or weasel) able to patch together a coalition government. Which means more gradual expulsion of Palestinians from the West Bank.
And Israel has a bad image now? No big deal. The US will defend them in the UN and send cash to prop them up as the Tail Wags The Dog. They just do genocide/final solution stuff a bit more discreetly. In the end, Arab/Muslim states hate Israel slightly more than they hate each other.
Posted by: Eighthman | Nov 24 2023 18:37 utc | 188
What is a militant in this context?
Posted by: Joey | Nov 24 2023 14:58 utc | 178
Palestinian resistance fighter. I think the figure I saw referred to Al Qassam (armed forces of Hamas) but maybe its similar for all the other groups. There’s a bunch of them. Apart from the fact that Israel has no right per se to squash armed resistance, the way everyone keeps saying “we must destroy Hamas” is nonsensical. As long as people have the resilience to fight subjugation, there will be resisters. They’ve waited 75 years for the “international community” to enforce international law. Nothing. Decades of fake peace processes that the Quartet and others never had any intention of honouring. What remains?
Posted by: pq | Nov 24 2023 20:06 utc | 189
Posted by: LightYearsFromHome | Nov 24 2023 16:39 utc | 185
I think Seldowitz is just a smirking schoolboy sadist, no dark night of the unplumbed soul for him, just the simple pleasures like pulling wings off flies and tormenting the powerless. got away with it too, for a long time. If Israel had not provoked worldwide outrage he would likely gotten away with it again. now it may be time for a sacrifice to the PR gods to show benevolence and the consistent principles of the US, champion of the downtrodden.
Posted by: pretzelattack | Nov 24 2023 20:33 utc | 190
Posted by: RJPJR | Nov 23 2023 23:35 utc | 106
Thank you. I agree with you. She was especially good at putting the idiot from the Guardian in his place about Israel being an actual apartheid regime. When I wrote the comment I forgot the one precise thing I disagreed with (vehemently).
As a lawyer I felt she should have said: “Hamas and Israel have made allegations about what happened on Oct 7 on Israeli territory. Israel did not follow due legal process, did not refer it to the ICC or allow for third party investigators. Instead Netanyahoo vowed “mighty vengeance” and started illegally bombing Gaza the next day, while stepping up x,y,z illegal activities in the West Bank. Therefore while Hamas and Israel during the course of the military raid on Oct 7 there is no chance for investigation now. Hamas illegally took civilian hostages and Israel has illegally detained thousands of Palestinians including children for many years. Both must be investigated by date… Hamas must wait its turn BEHIND Israel.
I assume you have seen Scott Ritter’s analysis of Oct 7 on his substack Scott Ritter Extra where he describes how Hamas conducted a successful military raid targeting military bases and the attacked kibbutzim which have armed security and form part of the Gaza envelope.
For anyone else who is interested here is a new very detailed analysis of what happened on Oct 7: all evidence suggests the IDF killed a large part if not the majority of the civilians that day.
Electronic Intifada was the first to get the ball rolling on Oct 16 by translating a Hebrew language testimony of a kibbutz survivor. Then Mondoweiss, The Cradle, The Grayzone did their own research. This is a thorough summary of all of the above.
https://electronicintifada.net/content/evidence-israel-killed-its-own-citizens-7-october/41156
Remember on Oct 7 Israeli news first said “40 killed”, by the evening they said “250 killed” but they said NOTHING about the rave until Oct 9 and didn’t get into the details until a few days later.
As of today the rave deaths are 364. Did they just not notice all these dead people they killed on Oct 7? Or were they preparing the media campaign to blame it on Hamas?
The Al Shifa tunnels are distraction. What idiot would put a base in the one basement built by Israel?
Israel’s military strategy is to destroy hospitals to make Gaza unliveable and speed up the death rate as the injured have no access to care. The injured are dying slowly and painfully I’ve followed the tragedy of how they have systematically destroyed EVERY hospital in northern Gaza: Al Ahli, Al Nasr, Rantisi, Al Shifa, Quds, Al Awda, Kamal Adwan. All GONE. All these hospitals were bombed, then they were surrounded by tanks for days without access to food, water, etc. It’s beyond a war crime. It has never happened in human history than an army used this as a military strategy. They know they can’t beat Hamas face to face.
https://twitter.com/ahmedatta0/status/1722814769701228915
Just search on twitter to see what happened to all the hospitals: they completely destroyed all the medical equipment and made them unusable.
I remember a day after the Al Ahli bombing, suddenly a huge blitz of new fake looking videos allegedly from the rave appeared all at the same time on Western media to distract from the CARNAGE at the hospital.
Posted by: pq | Nov 24 2023 20:58 utc | 191
Somebody gave Joe Biden the nickname Genocide Joe on MoA. It has gone viral. John Kirby was just asked about it by a WH reporter. Max Blumenthal started using it shortly after it was launched on MoA.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 24 2023 21:52 utc | 192
Interesting video on the impact of social media coupled with the affinity younger people have with them and how this undermines Israel’s capacity to spin the narrative on its favor:
Is Israel losing the social media war?
Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Nov 24 2023 22:31 utc | 193
in preface: The whole of the trouble preventing hardworking humanity from enjoying peace and plenty is inequality; inequality of wealth, inequality of political power, inequality of access to resources, education, etc etc. Inequality pits humans against each other in a lose-lose situation where most are subjected to the arbitrary whims and wishes of the fraction few filty rich and powerful.
Is there, on our Earth, a religion that embraces and expounds and enforces inequality? A religion that condemns equality as an evil to be destroyed by all means? Yes, and yes.
Since what the Jews call their “Holy Books” demand they accept that they are supreme/superior and predestined therefore to use, rob, kill or enslave the rest of humanity if at all possible – and never stop trying, and since the Jews “Holy Books” command them to use deception to deny this, how can a non-suicidal humanity tolerate the existence of Judaism?
Somebody said upstream that when push comes to shove, wagons WILL be circled.
I don’t think abolishing Israel goes anywhere near far enough to protect humanity’s chance to have a future. I don’t even think abolishing zionism will protect us. I spent my life being a live-and-let-live person. I was always easy with whatever people personally believed about God – as long as they were clear that their beliefs ruled their life, not anybody else’s. But having finally delved into what actually constitutes what Jews call a religion, I now sincerely think the rest of us must recall and nurture our survival instincts and ideally outlaw the inherently dangerous ideas called Judaism. Short of that, I think we must teach our children that it is suicidal behavior to allow Jews anywhere near the levers of any government – ever.
I am absolutely not calling for the extermination of all persons calling themselves Jews – because unlike them, I am no mass murderer. But I am now in favor of building prisons to contain all who refuse to renounce the obvious cancer that is Judaism. I sincerely believe they have left us no other choice.
Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Nov 24 2023 22:31 utc | 194
Cease fire appears to have held for close to a day now A 24 for 36-39? prisoner swap occurred. Just the pointy end of the RoW wedge to date, now it remains to be seen how long this lasts and where it leads.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 24 2023 22:42 utc | 195
Point of order – the first usage of ‘Genocide Joe’ actually appeared on the communist web forum and now federated lemmy instance (reddit alternative) website hexbear.net, not MoA
Posted by: hoxa_hexbear | Nov 24 2023 23:13 utc | 196
Somebody gave Joe Biden the nickname Genocide Joe on MoA
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 24 2023 21:52 utc | 196
That moniker originated in the field of pro-Palestinian protesters, not MoA.
You can sit down now.
Posted by: sln2002 | Nov 24 2023 23:26 utc | 197
But having finally delved into what actually constitutes what Jews call a religion, I now sincerely think the rest of us must recall and nurture our survival instincts and ideally outlaw the inherently dangerous ideas called Judaism.
Posted by: DuchessAndBob | Nov 24 2023 22:31 utc | 198
Judaism, like all religions, is an onion. Its outer form is the hierarchical established caste of the top clergy, that cares mostly about power and authority, and uses fear, hatred and separation as its tools.
This applies to all religions.
The inner part of the onion is all about unity and love. This you will find in the mystics of all religions, including in Judaism, e.g. in the early Hasidic writings.
I understand what you mean, but I would reword it: it’s not Judaism that is the problem, but separation and exceptionalism.
This exists in all major cultures throughout history. A non-inclusive list that comes to mind:
– Πας μη Έλλην βάρβαρος (Pas Mi Ellin Varvaros – every non-Greek is a barbarian, originally used to denote language differences but soon became an exceptionalist ideal)
– The Hua-Yi distinction in China
– Mleccha in Hinduism
– The Aztec Chichimeca
– Deutschland über alles
– The American City upon a Hill
In exoteric Judaism, it indeed found its strongest expression, by formally denouncing all non-Jews as goyim and this became an established accepted fact by most of the populace: they were (in their eyes) God’s chosen people.
I remember reading from Gnostic writers that this is why the Logos was incarnated among the Jews: they were the people exhibiting the highest separation and exceptionalism, hence it is there that Christ “crushed the head of the serpent”.
But the serpent, separation and exceptionalism, is found in many religions/cultures and exists spermatically in all; it is those that ought to be eradicated from all of us if we are to live in peace.
Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Nov 24 2023 23:30 utc | 198
I hope nobody else has posted this: former State Department diplomat Chas Freeman -dumped for reasons that will emerge as you read
“It’s very clear what Israel wants. It’s made no secret that it wants to depopulate Gaza by whatever means it can, by starving people into leaving, expelling them, or killing them all. And there’s no question that it meets the definition of genocide.
“They have the intent to destroy an entire people. They have the ability and they are, in fact, carrying out an operation intended to do so.
“I think it’s also quite clear why Hamas did what it did. This was in the nature of a jailbreak from the world’s largest concentration camp. And having been treated like animals they behaved like animals. What they did was horrifying, it was inexcusable, but it was understandable.
“The Israeli reaction has been vastly disproportionate and that is Israel’s custom. It tries to react disproportionately in order to intimidate and deter anyone from attacking it. That is not new but what is new are the genocidal statements and proposed emptying of Gaza.
“60% of the buildings in Northern Gaza have been destroyed and we know that over 12,000 Palestinians have been murdered by one means or another.
“Israel has destroyed most of the hospitals in Gaza. It now seems to be working on the schools. So it is totally ruthless and the whole thing is particularly macabre because it is such a vivid reminder of the Warsaw Ghetto, a very parallel situation in which driven beyond any ability to tolerate what was being done to them, the Jewish inhabitants of the Warsaw Ghetto rose against Nazi Germany and the Nazis exterminated them all and leveled the ghetto.
“One would think that the survivors of that Holocaust and the larger Holocaust in Europe would not wish to repeat a holocaust against another people but evidently, that is expecting too much of human nature.
“It now appears that much of the killing at the music festival was actually done by Israeli forces who fired indiscriminately at both the Hamas warriors and the milling crowds at the festival. Similarly, some of the major damage in the kibbutzim and the murders of the settlers there were done not by Hamas but by Israeli forces firing tank bullets into houses and hellfire missiles into cars and so forth. So this was a dreadful beginning to what has turned out to be an absolutely nauseating months and a half of slaughter, not finished.
“The United States has the ability to stop this by halting armed supplies to Israel but does not do that, opposes a ceasefire in support of Mr. Netanyahu’s revenge against the Palestinians, and Mr. Netanyahu, I would remind you, is on record many years ago as expressing hope for a war in which Israel could expel all the Arabs in its midst and seems to be taking advantage of this to do that hoping, I suppose, that his reputation which has been greatly damaged by charges of corruption and by his suspension of judicial independence in Israel, can somehow be redeemed by this act of revenge.
“Where we are is a very bad place.
“What Israel is reporting is extraordinarily crude propaganda, some of it obviously, utterly false, and they’ve been caught. Even some of the mainstream media are beginning to report that the Israeli Defense Forces are lying about a huge number of things.
“Younger people, generally in the West, certainly in my own country the United States, are far more inclined to be sympathetic to the Palestinians than they ever were before. It’s not that they dislike Israelis but now confronted with with graphic images of horror, the murder of 12,000 [Palestinians], they’re not dispassionate.
“Not only are they demonstrating in all of the world’s capitals for a ceasefire which their governments declined to support for the most part, but social media is now overwhelmingly pro-Palestinian as opposed to pro-Israeli.
“But I think the Palestinians, generally, have been motivated to remind the world that they exist. That their problems can’t be set aside.
“The Israeli government, with the connivance of the Biden Administration, and before that the Trump Administration, was making an effort to set the Palestinian issue aside in order to produce Arab-Israeli normalization. And the Palestinians set out with this raid into Israel to demonstrate that that is impossible, that the only way that you can have peace in Palestine is with a two-state solution.
“And oddly enough, although Hamas, of course, started as a movement funded in part by the Israelis — Mr. Netanyahu has openly admitted that he collaborated with Qatar to fund Hamas in Gaza in order to divide the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza — I think Hamas seized the moment to provoke Israel into doing exactly what Israel has predictively done in order to make it clear to the world that you have to have a two-state solution which had become a talking point. There was no reality to it at all. There had been no peace process for twenty-some years. Now there must be.
“People have recognized that the one-state solution — which many favored, meaning a purely democratic one-man-one-vote arrangement in Palestine in which inevitably the Jewish population given its higher level of culture, civilization, and finance, would have called most of the shots — is off the table.
“After all the hatred that has been demonstrated on both sides, coexistence in one state is obviously impossible in Palestine. Two states, however, would give the Palestinians a stake in peace. They have no stake in peace at the moment. They’re like a rabbit being swallowed by some kind of boa constrictor. As time goes on they go farther and farther down the throat of the snake and they’re crying out, and they were doing so at a pitch that, apparently, no one internationally could hear. And now their cause has been dramatized.
“We can’t have a resolution of what is going on now that takes the form of another expulsion of Palestinians, more tolerance of massacres, the condoning of genocide… and I think those in the West, including President Biden, who has been prepared to give Israel a pass on these issues, are beginning to pay heavily in terms of their political prestige in their domestic politics.
“Settler colonialism invariably leads to some attempt at genocide.
“That was the case in the United States, Canada, and Australia. It wasn’t the case in New Zealand because the Māori were too tough. It wasn’t the case in South Africa because the Zulus, and other South African blacks, were too tough. It wasn’t the case in Kenya because, eventually, black Kenyans rose up in the Mau Mau movement, which was itself a horror, but it did result in a separation from the colonial rule of the British. The same thing could happen.
“Now the difficulty of all this is obvious in terms of the fact that you’ve got an Israeli cabinet that is the most determined, genocidal cabinet the world has ever seen, and I don’t excuse the Nazi cabinets from that comparison.
“The overt statements of genocidal intent are unmistakable. There’s no effort, as the Germans did make, to conceal what is in store for the Palestinians. There’s no fake camp for Jews like the one the Nazis set up to bring the Swiss Red Cross in to show how wonderful they were treating the people they had taken away from their homes. No effort whatsoever of that sort, just bombing and strafing and murder on the ground.
“Israel appears to be paying quite a heavy price for that in terms of combat losses, but, of course, is not reporting accurately what is happening.”
Posted by: bevin | Nov 24 2023 23:42 utc | 199
DuchessAndBob@198
Most Jews are not Zionists. And very few of them believe that Jews are per se superior beings, a conceit by no means unique to judaism by the way. In fact it would be hard to think of an historical culture in which there were not, otherwise sane, people who believed themselves to have been born superior to lesser breeds.
Posted by: bevin | Nov 24 2023 23:50 utc | 200