Palestine Open Thread 2023-279
Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.
The current open thread for other issues is here.
Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Posted by b on November 20, 2023 at 17:20 UTC | Permalink
next page »First part looks like a video game to me, but this is going around as Yemeni takeover of Israeli owned ship.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1726647403413909532
Posted by: gottlieb | Nov 20 2023 17:37 utc | 2
Palestinian Representative, Nada Abu Tarbush, Demolishes Israeli Lies at UN
Transcript
Nada Tarbush: Speaker 1: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Given that a number of states have spoken about Palestine directly, we have prepared three replies which we will read one after the other and we kindly ask for your indulgence in that regard. We will first respond to Israel's statement.
Mr. Chair, at the outset, let us remind Israel that our name is not the Palestinian Authority, but the state of Palestine. Sure, your finance minister said at an event in Paris earlier this year there is no such thing as a Palestinian people. And your prime minister on the 24th of September held up a map at the General Assembly entitled "The New Middle East" in which Palestine was deleted and replaced entirely with Israel.
But if your government is annexationist and racist, this body is not. And we ask you to kindly adhere to UN protocol and nomenclature and to show respect to all stakeholders in this room. Let us also remind the Israeli delegate that the lack of rules of procedure for this meeting does not give carte blanche to lose all sense of decorum when speaking to interlocutors in this room. To the other states and civil society in the room, let me simplify Israel's statement for you.
Other than throwing insults around and making grave baseless accusations, Israel said something that should make all of you shudder. It effectively said, "I can kill any and every person in Gaza. The 2.3 million people in Gaza are either terrorists or terrorists, sympathizers or human shields and are therefore legitimate targets."
Every person, according to Israel, falls into one of these three categories. A child, a journalist, a doctor, a UN staff, a newborn baby in an incubator. And so, according to Israel, it can kill them and then have the audacity to come to this room and tell the world with a straight face, we are acting in international law. The death of each of the over 11,350 people killed over the past month, be it children, journalists, UN staff, the sick, the elderly, according to Israel, was justified. Think about that for a moment and let it give you pause.
Anyone espousing this warped logic has no shred of humanity, no sense of morality and no knowledge of legality. But guess what? Your carpet explanation for carpet bombing will not fly. People are not fools. The people in this room are seasoned diplomats who are well read, have a knowledge of history and many of whom have seen your government make the same arguments during your six previous military aggressions on Gaza in the past 15 years. They have seen you resort to collective punishment, targeting of Palestinian children, journalists, medical staff, aid workers before. They have seen you forcibly transfer our communities, colonize our lands, demolish our homes and evict families from their own properties since the 7th of October and for the 75 years that preceded it. They have seen your state-sponsored disinformation campaign before. Again, not fools. Don't insult our intelligence.
By saying that it is acting in accordance with international law, Israel is effectively saying the UN Secretary General, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, the WHO, UNICEF, OCHA, UN Special Rapporteurs, the UN Independent Commissioner of Inquiry on the Situation, human rights organizations worldwide, disarmament NGOs worldwide, humanitarian NGOs worldwide, countless legal experts are all wrong. Everyone is lying about Israel violating international law and we are asked instead to believe Israel, the state that is actually doing the indiscriminate killing. It is interesting that by saying even wars have rules, Israel quoted the very same UN Secretary General, whose resignation it has called for, because he dared to say that Israel has a history of occupying Palestinian land.
The dissonance of hearing the Israeli representative talk about wars having rules as it commits genocide and breaches every rule in the book live on our TV screens is quite something. To Israel, we say, we see through your PR and disinformation. The whole world sees through your PR and disinformation. The millions of people filling the streets in every major capital of the world, calling you out for genocide, sees through your PR and disinformation.
Perhaps you think that with your incendiary rhetoric, we will all forget the incitement, the declarations and acts of Israeli officials, the people you represent, to wipe out Gaza, to drop a nuclear bomb on the Palestinian people, to destroy the "human animals" and "children of darkness". Perhaps you think that your constant intimidation and threatening language will make everyone overlook the fact that Israelis, as we speak, killing babies, youth, women, men, elderly, no one too small or too old or too sick to be spared its wrath. Perhaps you think that by cutting off telecommunications and imposing yet another blackout on Gaza, you can continue to commit genocide while avoiding the annoyance of people being able to use their phones and computers to report on it. Perhaps you think that as your trigger-happy soldiers continue to kill journalists, 41 so far, the highest number of journalists killed over a four-week period than in any conflict in the last three decades, you think that no one will be left to expose your crimes. Perhaps you think that by trying to silence anyone who tries to speak about your crimes, the international law violations of the state, by calling them either anti-Semites or terror supporters, people will be silent. And your intimidation campaign knows no bounds.
They attack Palestinians, Jews, Israelis, U.N. officials, politicians, parliamentarians, university professors, and anyone worldwide who calls you out for your violations of international law. But guess what? Your intimidation and silencing will not work. We, along with all peace-loving nations and along with all people of conscience around the world, will not be silent. We will continue to call you out on your crimes to call for accountability for your violations, for sanctions as your government continues to reject calls for a ceasefire, to massacre our people, and to entrench your colonial occupation and apartheid regime.
Something your country should have learned over the past 75 years is that the Palestinian people are a people who refuse to disappear. And your nuclear threats, and your bombs, and your tanks, and your bulldozers will never break the Palestinian people's will to be free, and to live in the dignity and peace to which all people are entitled. Unlike you, we have consistently stood in this forum calling for respect for international law, for ethical principles to guide state behavior, for peace over war, for humanity over national interests, for disarmament over destruction. Once again, we stand in this forum to call on all states to respect and ensure respect for international law. Let the law be the measure by which all are judged, not propaganda and hateful, biased, spin steeped in racism. And to Israel's absurd assertion that Palestinians have a problem with people of Jewish faith, and give the impression that this is a religious conflict, let us say it loud and clear, this is not, and has never been about religion.
Had the occupiers of our land, or the violators of our rights been Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, atheist, or of any other conviction, we would have called them out all the same. Palestine has always been multi-racial, multi-ethnic, and multi-religious. People of Jewish faith have lived in historic Palestine as Palestinians for centuries.
We consider them to be our brothers and sisters. And since the memory of the Holocaust has been invoked, let us also say loud and clear, we have the greatest of solidarity with both the victims and survivors of the Holocaust. It was not Palestinians that committed that horrific genocide, but the fascist forces that spawned from Europe. And it is unconscionable that a number of European leaders are again beating the drum as another genocide is now underway in Gaza. We are united with those hundreds of thousands of Jews around the world, including from organizations like Jewish Voice for Peace, If Not Now, Na'amud UK, who are calling out this genocide and chanting in the streets of New York, London, Paris, Berlin, Sydney, Toronto, and all major western cities so that their governments can hear, "Not in our name, end the genocide in Gaza." With them, we stand together to end this pain and suffering. Together, we will not allow this to happen. Never again is now.
Posted by: librul | Nov 20 2023 17:42 utc | 3
Noam Chomsky debunks the Jewish hereditary claim to Palestine, acknowledges the Palestinians have a more justifiable claim if based on the Zionists' logic and acknowledges that Ashkenazi Jews like himself more likely have their genetic origins in the Caucasus an not in the middle east.
Chomsky refutes Israel's claims
Hey, a Jew said it, so it must be right ...
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 20 2023 17:42 utc | 4
VIDEO: What really happened on October 7?
The Grayzone’s Max Blumenthal joins Chris Hedges to discuss his investigation into Israel’s indiscriminate use of heavy weapons against Israeli citizens on October 7, and the shock-and-awe campaign of misinformation it subsequently employed to create political space for its brutal assault on Gaza.
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/11/18/video-what-happened-october-7/
Posted by: librul | Nov 20 2023 17:46 utc | 5
gottlieb | Nov 20 2023 17:37 utc | 2
That looks to be the right ship according to the ships name as given in Reuters. I posted a link to a photo of the cargo on a ships deck claimed to be the ship captured but that may not be correct.
This is the link I posted yesterday as that twitter account is usually solid, but, there is a good chance this is not the ship in question.
https://twitter.com/ma000111/status/1726283721068949851
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 20 2023 17:52 utc | 6
Germany’s support for Israel is starting to cause it problems with its Muslim immigrants. Germany’s friendly soccer match with Turkey, played in Berlin, triggered a national debate on multiculturalism and integration. The German team was booed by almost the whole stadium—mostly filled with Turkish immigrants. The team has never been booed on its home soil before, and it went on to lose the match.
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 20 2023 18:04 utc | 7
ICJ opined in 2004 that Israel liable to pay reparations for damages suffered by the Palestinians.
Legal consequences of the violation by Israel of its obligations.Israel’s international responsibility Israel obliged to comply with the international obligations it has breached by the construction of the wall Israel obliged to put an end to the violation of its international obligations Obligation to cease forthwith the works of construction of the wall, to dismantle it forthwith and to repeal or render ineffective forthwith the legislative and regulatory acts relating to its construction, save where relevant for compliance by Israel with its obligation to make reparation for the damage caused Israel obliged to make reparation for the damage caused to all natural or legal persons affected by construction of the wall.
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-178825/
Posted by: Exile | Nov 20 2023 18:04 utc | 8
Yemen just published a video of the capture of the Israeli owned Car Csrrier
https://english.almanar.com.lb/1982246
Posted by: Exile | Nov 20 2023 18:11 utc | 9
US & Israel Dead-Last in Following UN Charter
https://consortiumnews.com/2023/11/20/us-israel-dead-last-in-following-un-charter/
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 20 2023 18:20 utc | 10
The Arabs...are suffering from a supreme injustice.(p.5 - Introduction)
We have abstracted from them the control of their own destinies and by force of arms have imposed upon them a multitude of undesired immigrants and an alien system of life.
For 20 years now they have essayed every form of pacific appeal to have this injustice remedied. Interviews, petitions, protests to the League of Nations...all of them have been tried and have failed. Not only have the Arabs petitions not been granted, but of what was fundamental in them, consideration itself has been refused. They have never been allowed to place their full case before any International Court... with a right to win a verdict upon the facts.
“[In 1947] a majority of its members (the newly established UN) awarded the ancestral lands of the harmless Palestinian Arab to invaders from Eastern Europe”.(p.158)
Thus, in an atmosphere of BOGUS SANCTITY and MOCK LEGALITY, AGGRESSION was proclaimed MORAL in one case and place alone. By this act the leading politicians of the non-Zionist world denied every moral right and principle ever preached , and the entire cause of two World Wars. History knows no instance of aggression so strange or shameless, and in the later life of this body many of its members may vainly cry “Out, damned spot” and wish they could undo it. ...The new United Nations proved itself at birth a much more malevolent and dangerous society than the League of Nations.
“It planted a time-bomb in Arabia, a time-bomb more lethal to Western mankind that even the one in the middle of Europe. I think the remainder of the century will prove this. [written in 1956]
...the Zionists were everywhere able to mould men, called great, to their will as if they were of clay, even softer than mortal. The mastery of the prompters and the sternness with which they punished any player who spoke out of this part, remain astonishing.”
“There seemed no humiliation to which the political leaders of the countries leagued in the UN would not submit. It had performed the task for which, apparently, it was called into being, namely to give an air of SHAM-LEGALITY to the destruction of a small people [the Palestinians]. It could hardly be expected to shrink in horror from the lesser murder, even of its own emissary. The killing of Count Bernadotte was completely successful in its purpose. The Zionists would not allow that “the Negev should be Jewish and Western Galilee Arab”. They took both...”(p.160)
“The Intl Refugee Organisation (UNRRA, mainly supported by the US and Britain) announced that the Palestinian Arabs are NOT ELIGIBLE for its assistance . The organisation has allocated 1.5 million pounds for the Jewish Agency’s resettlement programme. Half the amount will be used for youth immigration to Israel. (reported in the Zionist press).(p.162).
“On Jan 28, 1949 this body decided by all votes against the British one, to expend 1 million pounds on sending 50.000 Jews into Palestine. The word “refugee” ...seems to need defining anew, when invaders are paid a million pounds and fugitives denied a penny
(On the role of the UN):
“HYPOCRISY on this scale assumes a grandeur of its own, beyond criticism. The Assembly which drafted the convention (on GENOCIDE) was the same which – at the same moment “genocided” a completely inoffensive (though weak) national, ethnical, racial and religious group. Every member of the unanimous assembly was indictable under every count.”
“The word “genocide” was first invented for the Nuremberg trial and applied especially to the case of the Jews. The draft convention, (if that origin and the GENOCIDAL ACT in Palestine are born in mind) appears to mean only that any opposition to ZIONISM is to be declared genocide while anything done by Zionism is exempt.(p. 163)
Until the armed invasion of 1948, the mounting successes of the Political Zionists seemed to be achieved solely by political pressure in the capitals, parliaments, parties and newspaper offices of the world. Closer scrutiny shows that this is not so: MURDER and other Intimidations played the decisive part. (p.163)
These killings seem to me to have been committed, not in hot, but in cold blood, as a means deliberately chosen to enforce political ambition. ...that is their importance and lesson: The success of the Political Zionism has in fact been achieved by the killers and by those who were able to protect them.
These killers have always been depicted to the world as a small group of reckless terrorists, at the edge of Political Zionism.In truth, they form its Core. Theirs was the hand which enforced the British withdrawal and killed Count Bernadotte when he seemed likely – at the last moment – to thwart their further plans. Therefore, for the purposes of the future, they ARE political Zionism, and they will not hesitate to pass from smaller killings to greater ones: that is, to seek larger ambitions still through war.(p. 164 - written in 1956)
Excerpts from Chapter 4 of "Somewhere South of Suez" by Douglas Reed, (available online) This book should be the subject of intense debate for all people who want to understand the political background and the psycho-pathology of the Zionist state.
If you want to find out why the state of Israel has no legal basis, try this:
https://archive.org/details/PalestineTheReality (the incorporation of the Balfour Declaration (which had no legal title) into the Mandate violated Art. 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations ..so the Mandate became unlawful)
Posted by: Alice in Wonderland | Nov 20 2023 18:30 utc | 11
🇿🇦🇮🇱🇺🇳 South Africa calls on ICC to issue arrest warrant for NetanyahuThe South African government has called on the International Crime Court (ICC) to issue an arrest warrant for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu by mid-December.
Minister in the Presidency Khumbudzo Ntshavheni said if the ICC did not do this, it would signal a "total failure" of global governance.
"The world cannot simply stand by and watch," she said.
South Africa, along with Bangladesh, Bolivia, Comoros and Djibouti, submitted a referral to the ICC to investigate whether war crimes and crimes against humanity have been committed in Gaza.
The country has announced the withdrawal of its diplomats from Israel, and suggested that the position of Israel's ambassador to Pretoria was becoming "untenable".
#SouthAfrica #Israel #ICC
Posted by: anon2020 | Nov 20 2023 18:32 utc | 12
Posted by: Alice in Wonderland | Nov 20 2023 18:30 utc | 11
This information supports my repeated assertions that the entire framework of international law is not law at all but merely a system of bureaucracy used to enforce Western colonialism across the world.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 20 2023 18:47 utc | 13
No Main Battle Tanks claimed today but a bunch of APCs
https://english.almanar.com.lb/1982345
Posted by: Exile | Nov 20 2023 19:08 utc | 14
A couple of Palestine threads ago I opined that the Jews intend to starve Hamas out. However, it seems that Hamas has had smuģgling tunnels which emerge in Egypt for more than 10 years. If that's true then it's more likely than not that Hamas can afford to wait longer than the Jews can afford to pursue their Fake War On Hamas.
A large chunk of "Israel's" National Economy, circa 40+ %, is already in tatters and will continue to decline whilst a state of Fake War exists. It's becoming increasingly obvious that "Israel", like its Western Jew-$lave$ believes way too much of its own bullshit.
Add to that the fact that Jews are NOT warriors and never have been. There's also the embarrassing reality that they've had 6 weeks to dive into the tunnel network and "teach Hamas a lesson they'll never forget." But they haven't, for one very good reason: shear unadulterated gutlessness.
i.e. Hamas can't afford to lose and "Israel" lacks the cojones to win. So I'm calling this fake war a win for Hamas/Palestine.
Q.E.D.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 20 2023 19:11 utc | 15
An article in Declassified UK on how Israeli government is paying social media companies to sell its war on Gaza especially to British public.
https://www.declassifieduk.org/israel-is-targeting-the-british-public-with-war-propaganda/
Posted by: Jonathan W | Nov 20 2023 19:13 utc | 16
Alastair Crooke today on Judging Freedom explains exactly why Israel better not attack Iran.
Posted by: Pundita | Nov 20 2023 19:20 utc | 17
@Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 20 2023 19:11 utc | 15
I liken part of the Israeli-Jewish delusion as imagining that they can create a "Brooklyn on the Mediterranean" whilst running open-air concentration camps and continuing to subjugate even the Israeli-Arab community (20% of Israelis). The demographics of the region are also massively against them, with its neighbours becoming much more populace in the past few decades.
I see them as considering that with the relative decline of the West their time to complete the ethnic cleansing is diminishing, especially with the Saudi-Iran rapprochement. They are also running out of time in the US as the Christian Zionists are in ongoing decline.
There already seem to be at least 250,000 to 500,000 Israeli Jews that have left for safer climes. That will turn into millions over time with the Israeli economy collapsing. Gaza will be a pyrrhic victory as it leads to the self-depopulation of the Israeli Jews. It, and the US, will get weaker and weaker as time passes.
No timeline given— Turkey to disrupt “commerce” via international waters:
Obviously not doing the “single” flotilla thing this time…
16:48 GMT
“Around 1,000 boats will set sail from Türkiye to Gaza this week in defiance of Israel’s naval blockade, Turkish news site Haber7 has reported. Claiming that the boats will carry 4,500 people from 40 different countries, Haber7 said that the organizers of the flotilla aim to stop in international waters off the Gazan coast and block shipping lanes into Israel to protest the Israeli military operation in the Palestinian enclave.
The sailing is being organized by the Mavi Marmara Freedom and Solidarity Association, which took part in a similar flotilla in 2010 to deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza. The operation ended in tragedy when Israeli commandos stormed the ships, killing ten Turkish activists aboard the MV Mavi Marmara.
Organizer Volkan Okcu told Haber7 that participants in this week’s sailing would “strictly follow international rules” and would not carry “even a single pocket knife.”
Posted by: Trubind1 | Nov 20 2023 19:55 utc | 19
Organizer Volkan Okcu told Haber7 that participants in this week’s sailing would “strictly follow international rules” and would not carry “even a single pocket knife.”
Posted by: Trubind1 | Nov 20 2023 19:55 utc | 19
This line is a reference to a similar peaceful action conducted in 2010. Israel responded to the peaceful “Freedom Flotilla” by having commandos board one of the ships and massacre 10 Turkish activists. True to form, Israel later claimed self-defense, alleging an activist had a knife.
Posted by: Gengar | Nov 20 2023 20:13 utc | 21
Posted by: Trubind1 | Nov 20 2023 19:55 utc | 19
(Mavi Marmara)
Yes, I remember that event.
In fact one can still Google useless eater Caroline Glick's gloatfest song We Con The World celebrating the IOF's 'victory' over the UNARMED crew of the Mavi Marmara.
The Mavi Marmara was owned by Malaysia PM, Mahathir Mohamad, who famously upset Oz PM Paul Keating by declaring that "Jews rule the world by proxy" which turned out to be truer than any Westerner at the time was prepared to admit.
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 20 2023 20:21 utc | 22
- President Biden seems to be losing support from young(er) Democrats on how he handles the situation in the war in Gaza, over the support (or the lack of support) for palestinians & Israel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Y4HJCNp3cU
Posted by: Mr. Market | Nov 20 2023 20:23 utc | 23
Noam Chomsky debunks the Jewish hereditary claim to Palestine, acknowledges the Palestinians have a more justifiable claim if based on the Zionists' logic and acknowledges that Ashkenazi Jews like himself more likely have their genetic origins in the Caucasus an not in the middle east.
Chomsky refutes Israel's claims
Hey, a Jew said it, so it must be right ...
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 20 2023 17:42 utc | 4
The cheque from Zio-Central must have failed to clear
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 20 2023 20:25 utc | 24
Thinking that reports end of last month of SAS on standby in Cyprus might be related more to Ansarallah escalations against Israel, starting a few days prior, than any potential hostage rescue raids in Gaza. They've been deployed to Yemen previously
It is important to note the occupied have a legitimate right to resist and are entitled to take the fight to the territory of the occupier, see Geneva Conventions, Hague Conventions et al.
https://johnmenadue.com/the-right-to-violent-resistance-and-a-false-western-morality/
Posted by: Paul GV | Nov 20 2023 20:39 utc | 26
No Main Battle Tanks claimed today but a bunch of APCs
https://english.almanar.com.lb/1982345
Posted by: Exile | Nov 20 2023 19:08 utc | 14
If one listens to the whole speech there is a part that is not in the summary above which suggests Israel is again using the Hannibal directive on its own forces in Northern Gaza. Sounds like it is in situations where there are face to face clashes and it's not clear if someone has been captured.
I am inclined to believe this is true. Because IDF are mad.
https://twitter.com/ME_Observer_/status/1726669053266174040
We suggest that the enemy bombed their forces from the ground thinking they were captured. Our Mujahideen confirmed that when the enemy is unable to withdraw his vehicles, he bombs them. He bombs them from the air.
Posted by: pq | Nov 20 2023 20:40 utc | 27
Posted by: james | Nov 19 2023 23:04 utc | 45
try putting the wapo link or any link you can't access into this website.. it should give you a version you can read.. check it out..
Unfortunately James, I cannot bring up that site here in Western USA.
Posted by: Alchemist | Nov 20 2023 20:44 utc | 28
Re: Posted by: Gengar | Nov 20 2023 20:13 utc | 21
Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Nov 20 2023 20:21 utc | 22
I had no idea of either of those background stories. Thx, was helpful.
Posted by: Trubind1 | Nov 20 2023 21:08 utc | 29
If one wants PR one must use propaganda and slogans to succeed. How about: THE GAZA HOLOCAUST
Posted by: canuck | Nov 20 2023 19:56 utc | 20
I fully agree with you in principle.
For now, I am asking people if they are NAKBA DENIERS.
And whether they approve of ISRAELI APARTHEID in which indigenous people live under different legal systems and have no rights on their own land but the Johnny Come Latelies do and are the only ones with any rights.
I also ask how they feel about Israeli GENOCIDE+ETHNIC CLEANSING in Gaza and the West Bank.
In the spirit of hope and timism, I'm going to hold off on your suggestion. But on January 27, let's hope the people of Palestine are rebuilding their houses with the resilience they have always displayed. The rest of us we need to about Palestine on that day every year. I am so done with the hypocrisy.
re: the occupied have a legitimate right to resist and are entitled to take the fight to the territory of the occupier, see Geneva Conventions, Hague Conventions et al.
Posted by: Paul GV | Nov 20 2023 20:39 utc | 26
That's the most astonishing thing. Israel has NO right to self defense, see link by Exile and Palestinians DO have the right to resist by any means. It's the media that has been responsible for twisting these facts.
Posted by: pq | Nov 20 2023 21:12 utc | 30
Different Tactics, Same War: The Perils of Treating Israel’s West Bank Offensive as Separate From Gaza
The horrors in Gaza are just one part of Israel’s unified system of controlling Palestinians from the river to the sea.
https://theintercept.com/2023/11/17/gaza-west-bank-israel-war/
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 20 2023 21:25 utc | 31
The discussion we're NOT having... John Mearsheimer:
https://t.me/ZandVchannel/88904
Posted by: Seer | Nov 20 2023 21:26 utc | 32
Among those discussing the genocidal bloodlust of Israelis since October 7, Alistair Crooke does a better job bringing me down than anyone else. I'd like to believe Israelis are not all as terribly hateful as they seem. Crooke's authority is Orly Noy of B'Tselem:
“In fact, Israeli public opinion regarding Gaza, where Smotrich’s vision is being implemented with a cruelty that even he may not have foreseen, is now even more extreme than the text of the plan itself. That’s because, in practice, Israel is removing from the agenda the first possibility on offer — of an inferior, de-Palestinianised existence — which until 7th October was most Israelis’ chosen option”.
https://strategic-culture.su/news/2023/11/20/will-scorpion-sting-us-frog/
Such that super-speed ethnic cleansing becomes Israel's only mission, the only remaining offer on the table: extermination, beneath the six-sided swastika.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 20 2023 21:28 utc | 33
Aleph_Null | Nov 20 2023 21:28 utc | 33
I suspect Israel is in a rush because they can only undertake ethnic cleansing genocide while US is strong enough to cover for them. If US collapses as and economic and military power or there is some form of major change in the US, Israel is on its own.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 20 2023 21:32 utc | 34
Posted by: Alice in Wonderland | Nov 20 2023 18:30 utc | 11
Thank you for pointing out both of these books.
Can you maybe provide a link where Dougas Reeds book can be read in full, or simply downloaded.
I am unable to find.
Posted by: JB | Nov 20 2023 21:34 utc | 35
anon2020 | Nov 20 2023 18:32 utc | 12--
The arrest of Netanyahu isn't nearly enough as Smotrich and the War Cabinet are just as guilty. But even more important as Crooke shows in his SCF published today, "Will the Scorpion Sting the U.S. Frog?", that a majority of Occupied Palestine favors Genocide, which is a point I've noted for weeks now. So, not only Netanyahu and the entire Zionist Junta, but millions of Zionists all need to be arrested and held liable for Genocide. Not even all of Nazi Germany was accused of wanting and endorsing Hitler's Genocide of Slavs and others. South Africans were able to see the immorality of their direction and halt it before it became more calamitous. Historians have pointed out that it was official state policy of the USA to destroy and remove the natives marking it as the first modern nation to employ genocide as policy. But it was able to get away with its crimes. And that brings us to the Zionists who have always held the policy of Genocide close to their heart but were unable to get their minions to also embrace it until now.
What to do with a people who are so decidedly Anti-Human; whose brains are so deranged and polluted by a supremely false ideology? And then there're the millions of allied cultists within the Outlaw US Empire and elsewhere in the world who want to see carnage on an even bigger scale. I see only two possible solutions, both requiring force with one more drastic than the other. IMO, it's 100% certain that the Zionists will carry out their Genocide unless they are forcefully stopped. Since the UNSC is useless in this conflict thanks to its NATO veto holders, a coalition outside the UN will need to be arranged led by Russia and China, while including all Arab and Islamic nations and as many other members of the Global Majority willing to join. This would be the initial show of force that would first be displayed to the Zionists to make them halt. If they don't, then actual military force will need to be employed with the goal similar to Russia's SMO: demilitarize and deideologize the Zionists. Beyond that point, the political settlement gets complicated.
Like Ukraine, Occupied Palestine is an artificial construct, although the whole of Palestine isn't. The entire Zionist construct would need to be 100% demolished and Palestinians allowed to reclaim their stolen property. Other people having a provable historical presence would also be allowed to remain with their property. The onus would be on those without a provable historical presence to assimilate into the new reality of One State or to emigrate. The One State would need to be overseen by the Global Coalition for several generations to ensure its political and social stability. This event would also usher in the need to overhaul the UNSC so it can become a workable enforcer of security for the whole planet as it was initially envisioned but has never actually functioned. China's Global Security Initiative which is based on the UN Charter could become a vehicle for such needed change.
If the artificial Zionist state is allowed to continue, the world will never know peace as there will always be attempts to force justice on the Genocidalists wherever they may be. So yes, a drastic solution must be arrived at because the Zionist Project--like Hitler's project--cannot be allowed to exist.
Trita Parsi
@tparsi
Hezbollah just struck and apparently destroyed much of the Birnit Israeli military site near the Lebanese borders. This is a major escalation.
Israel will respond, no doubt, and we will be one giant step closer to a regional war.
A senior Biden official is in Israel to counsel against an escalation with Lebanon. But the real measure that can put an end to all of this is a ceasefire.
https://twitter.com/tparsi/status/1726605581438312644
Posted by: Menz | Nov 20 2023 21:37 utc | 37
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 20 2023 21:32 utc | 34
Sad to say, at this point, there is no foreseeable future US major change. Unless Genocide Joe steps down and a decent option steps forward (Dennis Kucinich?), the oligarchy is hell-bent on keeping the zionazi supporters in power. And, no don't look to Donnie Darko to be any different, possibly even worse.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 20 2023 21:37 utc | 38
International Law is politics in a horse hair wig. Get three barristers in a room and you'll have ten different opinions. The simple rule of International Law is that there is no law without enforcement. Who has the most nukes.
Posted by: Echo Chamber | Nov 20 2023 21:41 utc | 39
JB: here is the book. You can make yourself a free account
https://archive.org/details/somewheresouthof0000reed/page/n3/mode/2up
Thanks Alice!
Posted by: pq | Nov 20 2023 21:54 utc | 40
Posted by: Alice in Wonderland | Nov 20 2023 18:30 utc | 11
Thank you for pointing out both of these books.
Can you maybe provide a link where Dougas Reeds book can be read in full, or simply downloaded.
I am unable to find.
Posted by: JB | Nov 20 2023 21:34 utc | 35
https://ebook-hunter.org/search/?keyword=Douglas+Reed&x=0&y=0
some annoying popups on that site but otherwise its safe to browse.
I found yandex best for browsing it
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 20 2023 21:56 utc | 41
https://ebook-hunter.org/the-controversy-of-zion-1978-by-douglas-reed_5acaa1a52533b908aa8d852e/
epub
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 20 2023 21:58 utc | 42
https://ebook-hunter.org/the-siege-of-southern-africa-by-douglas-reed_613e1e40e7aa116304cebd65/
epub
and
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 20 2023 21:59 utc | 43
To my wizened ear, it's supremely strange, even surrealistic, to hear frequent mentions of "the day after" Operation Level Gaza. For one thing, there happens to be a Jason Robards movie by that name, dealing with the day after the intercontinental missiles fly.
Allegedly, there's tension between USA and Israel over "the day after" (Crooke's latest goes there). Israel produces facts on the demolished ground, with demolition quickly expanding into Khan Yunis, toward no coherent endpoint aside from annihilation or extirpation of all Palestinians (not just Gazans).
WTF other kind of "day after" might Washington prefer? This apparent "after" argument between Tel Aviv and Washington looks more like a play with shadow-puppets to entertain children. Genocidal slaughter is actually the unitary policy of the hegemon, the whole hegemon, and nothing but the hegemon.
Posted by: Aleph_Null | Nov 20 2023 22:01 utc | 44
Aleph_Null | Nov 20 2023 21:28 utc | 33
I suspect Israel is in a rush because they can only undertake ethnic cleansing genocide while US is strong enough to cover for them. If US collapses as and economic and military power or there is some form of major change in the US, Israel is on its own.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 20 2023 21:32 utc | 34
I agree with you BUT think about it: the Empire is in decline your neighbor's demographics and economy are outgrowing yours in total so why not instead of acting like a psychopathic, rabid dog on meth honestly attempt a two state solution for lasting peace at this impasse?
The killing IDF are doing in Gaza will do nothing than bring economic harm to the region, piss off the ROW, be a moral albatross around the neck of Israel forever; and most of all create thousands of dedicated young Gazans whose families have been killed or mutilated whom, justifiably, become sworn enemies of Israel.
@karlof1 | Nov 20 2023 21:35 utc | 36
[...] a coalition outside the UN will need to be arranged led by Russia and China, while including all Arab and Islamic nations and as many other members of the Global Majority willing to join.
Nor Russia, nor China, nor any Islamic nation care about Palestine. Especially Islamic nations, to say the truth. Get over it.
Russia is the place of realpolitik. China is the place of mercantilism. Then there is the West. Then there are the savage nations. That's all the world.
Posted by: SG | Nov 20 2023 22:16 utc | 46
Posted by: canuck | Nov 20 2023 22:07 utc | 45
Zionists are acting like rabid pigs on meth because that's what they are. They inherently believe they are superior beings to ROW and have the right to annihilate us at will.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 20 2023 22:17 utc | 47
President Biden seems to be losing support from young(er) Democrats on how he handles the situation in the war in Gaza, over the support (or the lack of support) for palestinians & Israel.
Posted by: Mr. Market | Nov 20 2023 20:23 utc | 23
#################
Doesn't matter much. They will manufacture enough votes to win anyway. If anyone believes that votes were legitimate in 2020, they are really not paying attention, and I am unaware of anything that has changed when it comes to vote integrity. Don't get me wrong, both sides benefit from the panopticon paradigm. If is economically efficient for the herd to police itself.
I love the passion people have for what I feel are just causes. I wish that passion wasn't tied so much to naivety about human nature and how power works.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 20 2023 22:21 utc | 48
Sad to say, at this point, there is no foreseeable future US major change.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 20 2023 21:37 utc | 38
Change comes from RoW, where the Empire is losing all of its standing on a daily basis. The latest example: the Arab-Islamic foreign ministers' initiative for a ceasefire starts with a trip to China, not the US.
Regarding the internal condition of the US, I think Simplicius has it right on his latest post:
Russia’s final breaking of Ukraine’s back will likely coincide with the peak of the 2024 election cycle, late 2024 to early 2025, and will result in massive political and societal upheavals in the U.S. and West, signaling a final collapse of the old order of things and ushering in of a new global restructuring
Posted by: Lathe Biosas | Nov 20 2023 22:28 utc | 49
so why not instead of acting like a psychopathic, rabid dog on meth honestly attempt a two state solution for lasting peace at this impasse?
Posted by: canuck | Nov 20 2023 22:07 utc | 45
It amazes to still hear seemingly intelligent people still talking nonsense about "The Two state solution"
Are you people incapable of learning or what?
the so-called "Two state solution" has been a complete red herring since the day it was first proposed.
The JudeoNazis never had any intention of allowing any Palestinian State to exist, ever.
And they never will allow it.
Its a distraction to bamboozle the gullible goyim with, while they conducted a slow genocide ( the pace of which they have now decided to rapidly increase)
And there is nothing unique happening now. Everything the JudeoNazi scum are doing now they have done in the past.
The only difference is that now they are doing more of it.
Every JudeoNazi Prime minister in my lifetime has callously and deliberately bombed massacred and murdered Palestinian civilians with impunity
NuttinYahoo is in no way unique, no way worse than any of the others, either "left wing" and "right wing". He's the same as all the others, just moreso
Every action the JudeoNazis have taken over the blood-filled decades since the inception of their putrid state, has been leading directly to the events we are seeing now, and they are all on board with it.
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 20 2023 22:31 utc | 50
canuck | Nov 20 2023 22:07 utc | 45
My thought is that Israel wants to present a fait accompli by the time US power is lost.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 20 2023 22:39 utc | 51
I’m trying to find some positive news about young Israelis who might be getting to the ‘Not In My Name’ stage. I know some exist as I saw some being beaten up and arrested for having Palestinian flags but I didn’t bookmark it.
They need support because they are the ones who can change the world from within.
Somehow I stumbled on this little peach about ‘Young children’ - NOT.
Student US citizens who are conflicted by their realisation that they are being apartheid supporting ethnic cleansing supporters of illegal state in the Palestines.
Who knew former head speechwriter for First Lady Michelle Obama just wants to give them a hug - never mind the 10,000 actual dead and wounded babies and actual children in Gaza and WB.
Hey she says, you should not become self hating anti Zionists and remember the Europeans didn’t consider Jews to be ‘white’ - everyone hates us ‘cause we is black innit’!!
So don’t become a self hating anti zionist - remember we are people of color - like I told Michelle. ‘
There really is zero self awareness about the wholesale PR Fail going on here.
“To Jewish College Students Who Are Scared
“Charging Jews with ‘genocide’ is not an objection to occupation, but a lie that justifies opposing Jews ‘by any means necessary.’”
by SARAH HURWITZ”
https://sapirjournal.org/war-in-israel/2023/11/to-jewish-college-students-who-are-scared
Those conflicted Jewish princesses of all sexes in USA land need to understand that the natzios are not them. Natzios are people who lay claim to Palestinians rain, even!
‘David Miller
@Tracking_Power
Nov 19
Rainwater is the property of 'Israel'.
Palestinians are forbidden from gathering rainwater.
Source: a UN report: 'according to Israeli military orders in effect in the area, rain is the property of the Israeli authorities and thus Palestinians are forbidden from gathering rain water for domestic or agricultural needs.'
And:
'As well as prohibiting nearly all construction of wells necessary for Palestinians to secure additional quantities of water to support population growth and socio-economic development, such policies have denied communities access to water and sanitation facilities, including water, toilets, sewage networks and cisterns for rainwater harvesting.
This is Zionism.’
https://nitter.net/Tracking_Power/status/1726208176700199234#m
The choice is as clear as can be - it’s a heinous lie to compare themselves to the actual racism experienced by the Afro Americans and other peoples of colour of the world and by actual Apartheid Israel Projects natzios against its own African and Semitic Jewish peoples.
In the meantime let’s keep looking for positive news about young Israelis who are the key to the long term solution - the ONLY solution - a single Palestinian State. With full right of return of the displaced peoples, in which they can be equal citizens and is not defined by a fake religion of Zionism.
That is the simplest and only answer. That’s the only speech I want to hear from any US politician.
Posted by: DunGroanin | Nov 20 2023 22:43 utc | 52
It's hard to watch the videos of those heartbroken Gazan parents holding their dead/wounded children.
Posted by: Ozark Grandpa | Nov 20 2023 22:54 utc | 53
Aleph_Null@33
Thanks for the tip. I look forward to reading Crooke's latest.
People visiting the Strategic Culture site should not be distracted into missing this article by Steven Sahiounie: "Shame on the U.S. Ambassador to the UN: She Has Forgotten Her Roots"
It tells the story of her family, which is typical of black folk in the south.
Sadly Linda Thomas-Greenfield seems to have missed the news that slavery is ended and so is Jim Crow.
https://strategic-culture.su/news/2023/11/20/shame-on-us-ambassador-to-un-she-has-forgotten-her-roots/
Posted by: bevin | Nov 20 2023 23:00 utc | 54
Palestinian resistance fighters attacking Israeli tanks.
https://twitter.com/AlMayadeenNews/status/1726230191746523290
Posted by: Surferket | Nov 20 2023 23:03 utc | 55
Somewhere South of Suez
https://annas-archive.org/md5/6aeb68fbf9ccc722c52397cc71d8caaa
Posted by: Viktor | Nov 20 2023 23:06 utc | 56
Posted by: pq | Nov 20 2023 21:54 utc | 40
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 20 2023 21:56 utc | 41
Posted by: Viktor | Nov 20 2023 23:06 utc | 56
I want to thank you all very much for the links to the book - Somewhere South of Suez.
I have downloaded it and will read it starting now.
Reed is a fascinating figure and a great writer. It seems all his books should be read.
Thank you again!
Posted by: JB | Nov 20 2023 23:27 utc | 57
Get three barristers in a room and you'll have ten different opinions.
Yet anyone except a ghoul knows killing children ..with taxpayer subsidized bombs no less.. is a fucking atrocity. There's no more room for weasel words about international law. Israel is a fascist terrorist state.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 20 2023 23:28 utc | 58
Posted by: bevin | Nov 20 2023 23:00 utc | 54
She is just the latest in a long line of 'black folk' who not only have forgotten their roots but actively help policies that create new lines of suffering. It was Jim Clyburn (and Obama) who was instrumental in helping Genocide Joe steal the primary from Bernie Sanders. Although Sanders has twice shown his lack of spine, I seriously doubt the zionists would be able to do what they're now doing if he was president.
And let's not forget Clarence Thomas, it's a damn shame he's black or his application to join the KKK would have been approved.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 20 2023 23:30 utc | 59
Posting this again since books are mentioned:
This is someone’s library of Palestine-Israel related books. ~1700 in total and amazing resource.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/18u9KYo3MvRpyI0SDqD2AzseTvuSn3S8T
An interesting one that I randomly picked by “Fateh, PLFP, et al. - Documents of The Palestinian Resistance Movement - 1971” starts with Fateh’s vision of the One State of Palestine, and surprising to note that Fateh accepted “settlers” remaining in the one state.
Posted by: robinthehood | Nov 20 2023 23:46 utc | 60
Posted by: pq | Nov 20 2023 21:12 utc | 30
"In the spirit of hope and optimism, I'm going to hold off on your suggestion" about naming The Gazan Holocaust.
You are prudent and wise in your patience, wisdom. As you probably can tell, I get extremely frustrated watching the 'other side' lie and propagandize shamelessly.
hedlykarok@59
Yes. The famous Black Misleadership class.
She just struck me as a textbook example- Obama, for example, descended from a CIAnthropologist and a CIKikuyu con man. One hoped for more but got just about what we would have expected from a guy whose step-father ran death squads.
This woman comes from just down the river from Angola. I liked the article because I doubt whether most SC readers have morethan a superficial understanding of the saga of Jim Crow and what Methodism's founder John Wesley called the worst form of slavery the world has ever seen.
Posted by: bevin | Nov 21 2023 0:18 utc | 63
Lot of complaining over at Nap's site today with guest MacGregor. A lot of this probably stems from his saying he likes Israelis and has worked with them, plus credits their military as normal military types instead of condemning it. This was part of a discussion on whether military would deliberately murder people as in the hospital when the Hamas being there turns out to be all BS. The audience needs to realize, again, he is explaining their point of view, not adapting it as his own. He also said Israeli is fast losing, if not already has lost, the moral high ground; and he also said Israel is doomed with its current course to destroy the Palestinians, and that having done that it will isolate and alienate itself and basically destroy itself.
The Judge seemed a little pissed at times that MacGregor did not take on an indignant moral tone, same as the Judge does (as with the rolling commenters on the discussion, pissed for this same reason). But this is not the way MacG operates. He sees himself as objective, a scholar, and he also likes to point out what he sees as irrelevancies in what others say. In short, he can be a snooty and off-putting type like a know-it-all professor. Nevertheless, he is not a Zionist, or caved in, or morally bankrupt. We need to distinguish his style from his message. (He himself admits he pisses people off with what he says, and I think that means the WAY he says things primarily.)
But one thing today in his remarks bothered me, and that was the fatalism he put out that the way it is, and there's nothing to be done about it, is that the Israelis are bent on destroying the Palestinians, and both sides hate each other so much this will go ahead and happen. That is, the Palestinians will be wiped out. He also seemed to indicate things could get a lot worse in the next couple of months. In other words he predicted the future as though it definitely would happen, with the Palestinians wiped out from all over Israel. (BTW a couple of weeks back I read Israel saying they could go ahead and do the same thing as what they're doing in Gaza to Lebanon because "they know how to do it" as with Gaza--this was about the time they bombed a hospital in Lebanon.) I was shocked at how coldly MacG presented this prospect of the Palestinians being wiped out.
He also mentioned that at the moment surrounding Arab states that could help Palestine won't, and that Israel is hoping to pull Hezbollah into the war, and others too like Turkey and Iran, because it has the US military standing by to protect its back, and the US would be obligated to join in. He also said the US could say stop it and it would stop, but it won't, and implied the US will resist being pulled into a wider conflict also. As part of all this he mentioned that one big problem was the American people are being told nothing but lies. He needs more time to clarify his views and a better interviewer than the Judge, IMV.
Posted by: botete | Nov 21 2023 0:24 utc | 64
Although Sanders has twice shown his lack of spine, I seriously doubt the zionists would be able to do what they're now doing if he was president.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 20 2023 23:30 utc | 59
lol
CryptoBernie the Zioshill
honestly people like you really are incapable of ever learning anything
and all you have to do is simply observe his actions,and not swallow his words.
You already called him out for not having a spine, but now you posit that Spineless Bernie suddenly gonna grow a spine?
you're hilarious
this is better than reading The Onion
the level of gullibility on display in some of these comments is proof positive that no matter what shit you pull, as long as you market yourself as a socialist and occasionally mumble something mildly reasonable sounding, it really is possible to fool some people all the time and stand with Israel when it really counts, ...... and dumb bastards who claim to be against everything the Judeonazis represent, will still vote for you
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 21 2023 0:28 utc | 65
Were you, "No Debt" on Zero Hedge?
Posted by: canuck | Nov 20 2023 23:52 utc | 61
No, I was Arch Bungle - if you never heard of me that's how long ago I was banned.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 21 2023 0:42 utc | 66
It's hard to watch the videos of those heartbroken Gazan parents holding their dead/wounded children.
Posted by: Ozark Grandpa | Nov 20 2023 22:54 utc | 53
I could do it only once and never again.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 21 2023 0:44 utc | 67
Now i understand why the Israelis went berserk after seeing new videos today of HAMAS invaders chasing and killing those girls at the peace concert.
I will no longer encourage compassion towa
Posted by: william paul | Nov 21 2023 0:46 utc | 68
It turns out most of the ravers were killed by the Israeli response and decision to kill their own people to avoid embarrassment. That is what the most immoral army ever tends to do.
Posted by: Patso | Nov 21 2023 0:51 utc | 69
It amazes to still hear seemingly intelligent people still talking nonsense about "The Two state solution"
Are you people incapable of learning or what?
the so-called "Two state solution" has been a complete red herring since the day it was first proposed.
The JudeoNazis never had any intention of allowing any Palestinian State to exist, ever.
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 20 2023 22:31 utc | 50
I'm all for a two state solution being enforced by the U.N if this is at all possible.
A Two State Solution would effectively end the colonial settler state: Having lost it's status as an aircraft carrier, no longer being able to dictate Palestinian self-determination 'Israel' would wither on the vine.
But of course, even a two state solution would not resolve the problems on the Golan with syria, or the Shebaa farms with Lebanon, so good luck with that ...
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 21 2023 0:53 utc | 70
Israel’s government and its military have lost face. Face, once lost, can’t be restored. Those who lose face are incredibly dangerous because they are incredibly self-destructive. The Biden administration does not understand the issue of face as the issue is perceived in other parts of the world. One is really nothing and since face can’t be restored, nothing matters anymore. This is what the West is trying to reason with.
Posted by: Pundita | Nov 21 2023 0:54 utc | 71
If one wants PR one must use propaganda and slogans to succeed.
How about: THE GAZA HOLOCAUST
Posted by: canuck | Nov 20 2023 19:56 utc | 20
---------------------------------------------------------------
THE GAZA HOLOCAUST, I like it canuck. Many people will say that it is anti-Semitic and that it trivializes the Jewish Holocaust. But really it is the Zionist in the Israeli government that is trivialize the Jewish Holocaust by acting like Nazis regarding the Palestinian people. They should know better, and they do know better, therefore they are the anti-Semites.
Posted by: Ed | Nov 21 2023 0:58 utc | 73
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 20 2023 23:28 utc | 58
"Yet anyone except a ghoul knows killing children ..with taxpayer subsidized bombs no less.. is a fucking atrocity. There's no more room for weasel words about international law. Israel is a fascist terrorist state."
children, women, handicapped, infirm, and the elderly...I am astonished at how many ghouls there are out there who are cheering it on. The videos are horrible, even the fuzzy black and white izzie airstrike vids showed many civvies fleeing from the explosions. Stopped checking them out around oct 10th...and it's only gotten worse since then. Unbelievable how long the slaughter is being allowed to go on. Shame!
Posted by: nathan in WA US | Nov 21 2023 0:59 utc | 74
No Main Battle Tanks claimed today but a bunch of APCs
Posted by: Exile | Nov 20 2023 19:08 utc | 14
You sound disappointed. Take Heart, perhaps they're keeping the MBTs back for fear of losing them.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 21 2023 0:59 utc | 75
The JudeoNazis never had any intention of allowing any Palestinian State to exist, ever.
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 20 2023 22:31 utc | 50
Gaza, thanks to the Oslo accords, was an independent self governing state whose geography was limited to that of their ancestral Philistines.
Certainly not with a capital at Jerusalem, since if they had that, the next military attack would have a much bigger working area. Who would agree to expand the area of attackers who promise " from the river to the sea"
Posted by: william paul | Nov 21 2023 1:05 utc | 76
Hezbollah just struck and apparently destroyed much of the Birnit Israeli military site near the Lebanese borders. This is a major escalation.
Posted by: Menz | Nov 20 2023 21:37 utc | 37
What's more interesting is the missiles they used to destroy the base: Burkan.
It may be a major escalation but it's also a warning: "Look what I'm packin' m***erf**r!"
Rather dramatic video montage summary from Hindustan Times: Hezbollah's Burkan Missiles Hit Israeli Army Depot; Branit Barracks Up In Smoke
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 21 2023 1:07 utc | 78
But of course, even a two state solution would not resolve the problems on the Golan with syria, or the Shebaa farms with Lebanon, so good luck with that ...
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 21 2023 0:53 utc | 70
____
It also violates the right of return of millions of Palestinians and is therefore objectionable on its face.
Posted by: malenkov | Nov 21 2023 1:11 utc | 79
Gaza, thanks to the Oslo accords, was an independent self governing state whose geography was limited to that of their ancestral Philistines.
Certainly not with a capital at Jerusalem, since if they had that, the next military attack would have a much bigger working area. Who would agree to expand the area of attackers who promise " from the river to the sea"
Posted by: william paul | Nov 21 2023 1:05 utc | 76
You, like your buddy Antonym, are an uninformed imbecile.
Not attacking you, just making a statement of fact.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 21 2023 1:12 utc | 80
Hezbollah just struck and apparently destroyed much of the Birnit Israeli military site near the Lebanese borders. This is a major escalation.
Posted by: Menz | Nov 20 2023 21:37 utc | 37
What's more interesting is the missiles they used to destroy the base: Burkan.
It may be a major escalation but it's also a warning: "Look what I'm packin' m***erf**r!"
Rather dramatic video montage summary from Hindustan Times: Hezbollah's Burkan Missiles Hit Israeli Army Depot; Branit Barracks Up In Smoke
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 21 2023 1:07 utc | 78
Good- let's finish this MF once and for all- however it turns out
Posted by: william paul | Nov 21 2023 1:13 utc | 81
It also violates the right of return of millions of Palestinians and is therefore objectionable on its face.
Posted by: malenkov | Nov 21 2023 1:11 utc | 79
I don't think the two state solution excluded the right of return. Was there such a clause?
By the way, I'm not advocating the two state solution because it will work. I'm advocating it because it would give the Palestinians breathing room for the next round of fighting and allow the West bank to arm-up.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 21 2023 1:24 utc | 82
Good- let's finish this MF once and for all- however it turns out
Posted by: william paul | Nov 21 2023 1:13 utc | 81
Yes. This time without Uncle Sugar, the EU and Egypt helping Izzie out. Mano a Mano. Deal?
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 21 2023 1:25 utc | 83
Were you, "No Debt" on Zero Hedge?
Posted by: canuck | Nov 20 2023 23:52 utc | 61
No, I was Arch Bungle - if you never heard of me that's how long ago I was banned.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 21 2023 0:42 utc | 66
Thanks. I was Cicerostenant, then Niobium, banned two times. Started around 2012.
Middle East Eye reports: more direct incitement of war crimes
“The international community warns us of a humanitarian disaster in Gaza and of severe epidemics,” retired Major General Giora Eiland, the former head of Israel’s National Security Council, wrote Sunday.
“We must not shy away from this, as difficult as that may be. After all, severe epidemics in the south of the Gaza Strip will bring victory closer and reduce casualties among IDF soldiers.”
Posted by: jayc | Nov 21 2023 1:37 utc | 85
UN Told Israelis Give The Land & Homes Back and Compensate Palestinians!
Resolution #194 12/11/1948!
Jay Janson; OpEdNews; 11/18/2023
https://www.opednews.com/articles/1/UN-Told-Israelis-Give-The-Genocide-231118-382.html
(On May 14, 1948, the Provisional Government of Israel had proclaimed a new State of Israel comprising 77% of the land in Palestine.)On December 11, 1948, exactly one week after Albert Einstein condemned the macabre Israeli massacre at the Arab village of Deir Yassin and warned against supporting Fascism in Israel in a letter to the New York Times signed by other prominent Jews, The United Nations General Assembly adopted resolution #194, resolving that:
"refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible."
75 Years of grieving millions and massive bloodshed is the result of Israel ignoring this UN directive, and instead bringing in Jews from Arab nations to settle largely on confiscated Palestinian homes and lands of that subsequently impoverished 700,000+ Arab Palestinians, by now having grown in population to millions, most of whom having remained relatively destitute long under Israeli military occupation and further seizure of their West Bank land by roughly half a million Jewish settlers, other millions living as refugees in nearby countries.
........
Israel, as an occupying power, does not have "the right for self-defense" - UN International Court, 2004.
.....
In his speech before the Israeli Knesset upon accepting Israel's prestigious Wolf Prize (1991), violinist Yehudi Menuhin bitterly criticized Israel's continued presence in the West Bank, characterizing it as:"contempt for the basic dignities of life, this steady asphyxiation of a dependent people. The only solution is keep intact the territory and create a democratic federated union, allow people to live where they were, together, apart, schools apart or together - what ever they want - with Jerusalem capital of both like Bern is the capital of German Switzerland and French Switzerland and each president is there for a year and no one knows his name - that is the only solution, otherwise there'll always be war." Yehudi Menuhin
These are not the words and sentiments of an accusing Iranian President Ahmadinejad, or of a defiant Hezbollah, Hamas or other Palestinian spokesperson, but the words of a sensitive, soft spoken, internationally beloved and Israeli prize awarded musician whose very given name, Yehudi, means "the Jew" in Hebrew, his first language.
.....
Posted by: scanalyse | Nov 21 2023 1:51 utc | 86
RT reports: "Putin to take part in emergency BRICS summit – Kremlin: The meeting will be dedicated to the ongoing escalation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Moscow has said."
Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin, will join an emergency video conference with other BRICS leaders on Tuesday to discuss the ongoing escalation between Israel and the Palestinian Hamas militant group, the Kremlin said in a statement on Monday. The presidential administration provided no further details about the upcoming event.Earlier on Monday, the office of South African President Cyril Ramaphosa said that he will chair an extraordinary joint meeting on the situation in Gaza. South Africa currently chairs the BRICS group, which also includes Russia, China, Brazil, and India.
I know this is no biggie, but still here the item:
NYT poetry editor Anne Boyer resigned over news reporting on Gaza:
https://znetwork.org/znetarticle/read-anne-boyers-extraordinary-new-york-times-resignation-letter/
"I have resigned as poetry editor of the New York Times Magazine.
The Israeli state’s U.S-backed war against the people of Gaza is not a war for anyone. There is no safety in it or from it, not for Israel, not for the United States or Europe, and especially not for the many Jewish people slandered by those who claim falsely to fight in their names. Its only profit is the deadly profit of oil interests and weapon manufacturers.
The world, the future, our hearts—everything grows smaller and harder from this war. It is not only a war of missiles and land invasions. It is an ongoing war against the people of Palestine, people who have resisted throughout decades of occupation, forced dislocation, deprivation, surveillance, siege, imprisonment, and torture.
Because our status quo is self-expression, sometimes the most effective mode of protest for artists is to refuse.
I can’t write about poetry amidst the ‘reasonable’ tones of those who aim to acclimatize us to this unreasonable suffering. No more ghoulish euphemisms. No more verbally sanitized hellscapes. No more warmongering lies.
If this resignation leaves a hole in the news the size of poetry, then that is the true shape of the present.
—Anne Boyer"
Posted by: AG | Nov 21 2023 2:21 utc | 88
I would put money on the main event - war with Iran, beginning within 2 weeks, 3 at the latest. Posted by: anon | Oct 31 2023 1:58 utc | 322———
anon, I’m willing to take your money [s/b bet]. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
…Your betters (barfleas) have been predicting this war for multiple decades, to no avail.
…Will you be here in 2-3 weeks to pay me?
Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Oct 31 2023 16:35 utc | 494
——
Ding, ding, ding. Time’s up. Where is that anon dude? It’s been 3 weeks. Pay up.
At first I thought I wanted to collect, but, I have a better solution: Buy a round for the bar. My preference (even though I don’t drink) would be a nice bouquet of Shiraz (namesake of a city in SW Iran, situated 60 km (37 mi) southwest of the ruins of Persepolis — the seat of Persian Empire, home to great poets Hafez and Saadi. Ooh how could I forget, and paloodeh, the best dessert on earth).
Posted by: Sakineh Bagoom | Nov 21 2023 2:30 utc | 89
UpToEleven | Nov 21 2023 0:28 utc | 65
and down to way below zero.
Posted by: bevin | Nov 21 2023 2:37 utc | 90
The Nov 1947 borders as described in UNR 181 remain the only internationally recognized boundries of the Jewish State. Everything else is a easefire line.
The longer Likud refuses to accept this, the higher the cost of reparations will be. The ICJ in 2004 opined Israelis are livable to pay reparations for damages.
The Likud has failed to bring with security or peace to Israelis.
Posted by: Exile | Nov 21 2023 2:42 utc | 91
The Nov 1947 borders as described in UNR 181 remain the only internationally recognized boundries of the Jewish State. Everything else is a easefire line.
Posted by: Exile | Nov 21 2023 2:42 utc | 91
Not even.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 21 2023 2:50 utc | 92
I'm all for a two state solution being enforced by the U.N if this is at all possible.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 21 2023 0:53 utc | 70
No 2 state solution was ever possible.
the original plan was unworkable from day one, and was imho fully intended to be unworkable.
The way those borders crisscrossed each other meant that there were always going to be extremely vulnerable chokepoints.
Neither of the proposed 2 states had viable defensible borders
whoever originally proposed drawing the borders like that was an evil f**k
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 21 2023 2:54 utc | 93
The Times of Israel reports that the IDF launched an artillery bombardment that started the recent skirmish on Hezbollah strongholds in southern Lebanon. Hezbollah launched several rockets and mortars from Lebanon in retaliation to the IDF attack, hitting the Biranit army base and causing significant fire and damage but no injuries.
IDF fighter jets, helicopters, and tanks immediately struck back at Hezbollah positions.
Posted by: american-joe | Nov 21 2023 2:54 utc | 94
The Likud has failed to bring with security or peace to Israelis.
Posted by: Exile | Nov 21 2023 2:42 utc | 91
not just Likud. every other political party there too.
not one of them ever had any desire for real peace.
its impossible to make peace anyway when you are intent on stealing everything from your neighbours
Likud are no worse that any other Judeonazi party throughout Judeonazi history.
in fact the only real difference is that Likud are if anything simply more honest about their real intentions
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 21 2023 2:59 utc | 95
The Times of Israel reports that the IDF launched an artillery bombardment that started the recent skirmish on Hezbollah strongholds in southern Lebanon. Hezbollah launched several rockets and mortars from Lebanon in retaliation to the IDF attack, hitting the Biranit army base and causing significant fire and damage but no injuries.
IDF fighter jets, helicopters, and tanks immediately struck back at Hezbollah positions.
Posted by: american-joe | Nov 21 2023 3:01 utc | 96
and down to way below zero.
Posted by: bevin | Nov 21 2023 2:37 utc | 90
lol
looks like we found one of the gormless gullibles, constantly fooled by CryptoBernie the ZioShill
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 21 2023 3:01 utc | 97
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 21 2023 1:24 utc | 82
BTW I'm all for a 2 state solution, provided that the JudeoNazi one is somewhere far away from Palestine...
somewhere like Florida .....
or ..... Mars
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 21 2023 3:07 utc | 98
How are reparations going to be collected if their is no Jewidh State ?
Posted by: Exile | Nov 21 2023 3:15 utc | 99
Posted by: Exile | Nov 21 2023 3:15 utc | 99
send the reparations bills to the US Britain and Germany
Posted by: UpToEleven | Nov 21 2023 3:23 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
Current Gaza war map.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?hl=es&mid=1SrPdIEnbc9pLZIL_nD02rfOGiUuAboc&ll=31.520483356945405%2C34.491492615429706&z=13
It now shows a broad IDF push along the northern sector Plus two narrow drives into Gaza city, one from the north and one from the coast. I assume these narrow drives would be bulldozed pathways but perhaps not.
IDF casualties sharply increased as Urban fighting began and I would think casualty rates will continue to increase the further they push into high density urban areas.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 20 2023 17:34 utc | 1