Palestine Open Thread 2023-264
Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.
The current open thread for other issues is here.
Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Posted by b on November 7, 2023 at 13:43 UTC | Permalink
next page »I am not Jewish, Muslim or Christian and don't come from any of the countries historically involved in this conflict. I don't have any skin in this particular game but I find the behaviour of Israel's government and society repulsive. To me it is not a surprise, because I am well read up on the history of this issue, but there are millions of younger people out there looking at what is happening, and opinions that were previously neutral or positive towards Israel are changing.
When you factor in the billion+ muslims in the world, Israel (a small country surrounded by hostile populations) can only hope to survive by the largesse of the western Christian countries if it alienates everyone else. But it looks like even the younger generations in the west are not as favourable towards Israel as before. What is the endgame here? Keep a lock on western elites? If the elites lose legitimacy, then what?
I feel Israel's only hope for the long term is to come to an accord with the Palestinians and treat them humanely. Is their society capable of this?
Posted by: spenobcu57 | Nov 7 2023 14:05 utc | 2
The Most Moral Army in the World, 'God's Chosen', arrest Ahed Tamimi in her home:
Israeli forces arrest Palestinian activist Ahed Tamimi at her home
Her mere existence is "incitement to violence and terrorist activities".
The Greatest Tyranny in the Middle East, perhaps in the world is terrified of one young woman ...
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 7 2023 14:11 utc | 3
How the Hamas attack was organized per Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/07/secret-hamas-attack-orders-israel-gaza-7-october
"The decision to pass instructions verbally to thousands of Hamas militants scattered among Gaza’s 2.3 million inhabitants was the latest in a series of measures designed to deceive one of the most potent surveillance systems in the world and keep any word of what might be about to happen from a network of spies."
The word "surveillance" occurs exactly once in this article. The verbal impromptu instructions, per article, "was the latest in a series of measures" to overcome pervasive surveillance.
Surveillance however also includes sensors and visual surveillance. There is this nice picture by "APA" with a bulldozer brought in clear light of morning past a perimeter zone that is just flat ground. The purpose of this "perimeter" is precisely for visual "surveillance" and embedded sensors.
So good on Hamas for using just in time secure comms. Now pretty please explain how those bulldozers just drove up to the fence.
Posted by: robinthehood | Nov 7 2023 14:26 utc | 4
One month of slaughter and inhumane cruelty.
One month of dystopian propaganda and draconic punishment for those calling it out.
Given current trajectory, i expect martial law and people hanged on lamp posts within two years here in our free and democratic western world - i am generous regarding the time line, could happen tomorrow.
Posted by: kspr | Nov 7 2023 14:31 utc | 5
******Commandant Netanyahu********
Netanyahu is now saying that after the Gaza conflict is over,
the Zionists will be in charge of security in the Gaza Concentration Camp.
Posted by: librul | Nov 7 2023 15:05 utc | 6
Posted by: librul | Nov 7 2023 15:05 utc | 6
And back to square one they'll go.
Back to kids throwing stones at tanks.
'terrorist' attacks on IDF patrols,
Until once again they un-occupy
Or at least continue occupation
from a safe distance ...
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 7 2023 15:09 utc | 7
******Commandant Netanyahu********
Netanyahu is now saying that after the Gaza conflict is over,
the Zionists will be in charge of security in the Gaza Concentration Camp.
Posted by: librul | Nov 7 2023 15:05 utc | 6
++++++++++
I don't see how the Holy Holocaust narrative can retain its mojo after this series of horrific events, and the situation is still headed downhill faster and faster. Don't talk to me about the Holocaust.
It is ironic in some level that Kristallnacht is commemorated throughout the Jewish "community." How many Jews actually lost their lives on Kristallnacht?
Genocidal Zionists trump German Nazis.
Soon we will be talking about the "good Jews.
I worry about what will they do to Ahed Tamimi.
Posted by: Jane | Nov 7 2023 15:13 utc | 8
Posted by: Baile | Nov 7 2023 14:01 utc | 1
#####################
Well said.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2023 15:14 utc | 9
I feel Israel's only hope for the long term is to come to an accord with the Palestinians and treat them humanely. Is their society capable of this?
Posted by: spenobcu57 | Nov 7 2023 14:05 utc | 2
An accord that puts the Palestinians under the mercy of the Israelis to treat them humanely, is not a solution that Palestinians want.
Posted by: Man | Nov 7 2023 15:19 utc | 10
Shots fired earlier today towards PA leader Mahmud Abbas's car convoy in West Bank. One bodyguard dead. Conflicting rumors indicate Mahmud Abbas himself wounded.
Responsibility was assumed by the first-timer "Children of Abu Jandel" organization, supposedly founded by disillusioned members of West Bank's PA security forces, after Mahmud Abbas failed to comply with their yesterday's ultimatum to declare the PA at war with Israel.
https://twitter.com/eha_medya/status/1721887702126297406
Posted by: Memory Man | Nov 7 2023 15:19 utc | 11
Posted by: spenobcu57 | Nov 7 2023 14:05 utc | 2
#################
The issue is not Jews or Israel. It's the belief in Zionism, which is as dangerous and insidious as Nazism.
Can they find a peaceful and ethical way forward soon? We will see, but I doubt it, ideologies only collapse when they face a total defeat.
There is something about the cognitive, emotional, and ego power of an ideology that requires a complete shattering of the psyche of those involved for them to find a way out of their darkness.
Zionism is led by a relatively small group of true believers acting with a lot of conviction. When they fall, most people will go back to pretending they were never for genocide or racial supremacy, just like it is hard to find many Americans today who thought Vietnam, and now Iraq were worthwhile adventures. The same people who would have gladly fed their own children into the war machine in the space of a couple of decades have completely distanced themselves from their earlier fanaticism.
Growth? Fracturing the herd? These are cycles humanity has gone through forever.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2023 15:21 utc | 12
Shots fired earlier today towards PA leader Mahmud Abbas's car convoy in West Bank. One bodyguard dead. Conflicting rumors indicate Mahmud Abbas himself wounded.
Posted by: Memory Man | Nov 7 2023 15:19 utc | 11
I'd celebrate but it suddenly hits me that all they'll do is replace him with yet another hollow animated carcass.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 7 2023 15:22 utc | 13
Lovedonbass @ 9
Thanks for putting up those links for protests the other day (about a week ago)
I did'nt get an opotunity to thank you at the time, but it was big of you. Respect
Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 7 2023 15:24 utc | 14
I worry about what will they do to Ahed Tamimi.
Posted by: Jane | Nov 7 2023 15:13 utc | 8
It's highly unlikely 'too much' harm will come to her.
Sad to say, the fact she is white and blonde with freckles, makes her an instant 'angel' that will certainly piss off people in the west who otherwise don't care. Creating a martyr of her would set the West Bank on fire.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 7 2023 15:32 utc | 15
I'd celebrate but it suddenly hits me that all they'll do is replace him with yet another hollow animated carcass.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 7 2023 15:22 utc | 13
My thoughts exactly but what should happen is the PA should join with Lion's Den and start fighting back against the zionist army and nazi settlers.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 7 2023 15:35 utc | 16
Has anyone else noticed how since October 7, https://thedreizinreport.com/ has turned into a fully fledged Zionist racist deranged hater?
His puerile taunts and frat boy name calling were somewhat tolerable when directed at a justifiably odious regime like Zelensky's and co... i guess you can take the boy out of AIPAC, but you'll never take the racist arab-hating supremacist out of this jew. How ironic, since much of his vitriol was previously directed at the other mob who preached that exact same supremacist philosophy.
Downplaying the shocking number of civilians murdered seems to be the best argument Zionists can come up with these days. It's not exactly clear how the presumed murder of (best case?) 5,000 instead of 10,000 civilians in less than a month could be considered any less of a war crime.
Posted by: Rubiconned | Nov 7 2023 15:38 utc | 17
His puerile taunts and frat boy name calling ...
Posted by: Rubiconned | Nov 7 2023 15:38 utc | 19
##############
I stopped paying any attention to Dreizin last year. No one seriously posts in such a manner. While I have a sense of humor, his style always reeked of mental instability.
When push comes to shove, most American Jews are Zionists.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2023 15:44 utc | 18
A follow-up, to be a racial supremacist requires a degree of mental instability.
These are not the attitudes and beliefs of healthy, happy, productive people. These are people obsessed with status, power, money, etc.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2023 15:49 utc | 19
2019 Documentary on Gaza by Abby Martin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnZSaKYmP2s
via https://www.unz.com/runz/war-crimes-and-atrocity-hoaxes-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/
The opening scenes in Gaza look exactly like the ones from last week after the bombing of the refugee camp there.
My thoughts exactly but what should happen is the PA should join with Lion's Den and start fighting back against the zionist army and nazi settlers.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 7 2023 15:35 utc | 16
In the world of our ideals, yes. However the entire PA is too compromised.
Posters have been beating off on theories about Hamas being controlled opposition, created by Mossad, funded from the provident fund of Ariel Sharon himself, working hand in hand with Netanyahoo but there before our very eyes is an organisation which is all those things - The P.A.
(Yet, no one said a word about that)
Want to see what controlled opposition looks like? Look at the P.A - that's how you know Hamas is not controlled opposition.
Every single P.A member is nothing more than an honorary member of the IDF.
When the occupation falls they'll all flee on the coattails of their masters.
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 7 2023 15:57 utc | 21
2019 Documentary on Gaza by Abby Martin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnZSaKYmP2s
via unz Pravda piece at https://tinyurl.com/yururxsj
The opening scenes in Gaza look exactly like the ones from last week after the bombing of the refugee camp there.
I added Dreizen to my Manchrian Candidate list a couple of weeks ago along with:
1. Tulsi Gabbard
2. Trump
3. RFK Jr
4. Bernie Sanders
People off the list:
Cenk and Ana at TYT have been taken off the list as nobody is going after Israel harder.
Breanna Joy Grey has probably thrown away a lucrative career supporting the Palestinians
Dr Cornell
Obama is showing signs of decency.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2023 16:00 utc | 23
Below is an open letter requesting an apology from Israeli Foreign Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for comments made yesterday following the ruling which characterised the survivors of the massacre as “terrorists”. The open letter was issued today in Belgium by the three lawyers representing the survivors of the Sabra and Shatila Massacre.
AN OPEN LETTER TO MR. BINYAMIN NETANYAHU
"Brussels, 13 February 2003
Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu
Minister of Foreign Affairs
Israel
Dear Mr. Netanyahu,
Yesterday you declared that the Belgian Supreme court made “a scandalous decision, which legitimizes terror and harms those who fight it. This turns the tables — when those who fight terror turn into the accused and the terrorists are victorious.”
As counsels of the plaintiffs, 28 Palestinian and Lebanese survivors of the Sabra and Shatila massacre, we cannot accept your language, tone, or characterization of yesterday’s landmark ruling.
Our clients are not “terrorists,” but ordinary people who were raped, tortured, and wounded; who were forced to witness — and relive everyday since — the slaughter of their children, parents, husbands and wives, or who had their close relatives “disappeared.” By calling these victimized survivors “terrorists,” after all that they have endured for over twenty years, you have brought shame upon yourself as Foreign Minister, and upon your country, which, to its great credit, acknowledged the responsibility of Israeli politicians and military in this crime against humanity two decades ago, yet has never gone one additional and crucial step further by legally prosecuting the perpetrators and compensating the victims.
As Minister of Foreign Affairs of Israel, you should not accuse the Belgian Supreme Court of legitimizing terrorism simply because it accepts the principle that Belgian courts have universal jurisdiction over perpetrators of war crimes, genocide, and crimes against humanity. Your country was the very first country in the world to endorse universal jurisdiction for such crimes in its national legislation. Israel arrested war criminals like Eichmann and Demanjuk in other countries, or sought to have suspects extradited.
Israel has failed, however, in respecting and discharging its clear obligations under the Fourth Geneva Convention to arrest and prosecute those responsible for the Sabra and Shatila massacre, expressly qualified by the United Nations as an act of genocide and perpetrated in territory then under the control of the Israeli Defence Forces."
There is little difference between events in Gaza and the events in Sabra and Shatila - Obligations under the Fourth Geneva Convention require the UN to expressly qualify Israel's actions as an act of genocide, acknowledging they were perpetrated in territory under full control of the Israeli Defense Forces. Netanyahu never changes. Palestine was granted full sovereignty and self determination in 1974 by the UN; the UN and the international community need to finally make this a reality, with a sharp toothed protectorate protecting Palestinians from Israeli predations which have been ongoing since 1947. Rendering Gazans free to develop their land - with seaport, airport, independent financial and banking operations, as well as full and complete opportunity to develop all natural resources and geopolitical opportunities. Full and complete freedom.
Posted by: abierno | Nov 7 2023 16:07 utc | 24
Ehud Barak, Israel's ex-PM/ex-Defense Minister/ex-Chief of Staff, commander & one of the key planners of the 1972 Operation Thunderbolt against Black September's fentayin in Entebbe, Uganda (interestingly, Netanyahu was a subordinate of his in that operation), reckons there is just a 2-3 weeks window, "perhaps less", for Israel to accomplish its goals inside Gaza, although he estimates that the military goals as stated by Netanyahu would need "many months, possibly up to a year" to be accomplished, if at all.
The swing of global public opinion against Israel is not lost on him:
“Listen to the public tone — and behind doors it is a little bit more explicit. We are losing public opinion in Europe and in a week or two we’ll start to lose governments in Europe. And after another week the friction with the Americans will emerge to the surface”.
He then goes into fallacies about "a multinational Arab force [that] could have to take control of Gaza after the military campaign, to help usher in a return of Mahmoud Abbas’ Palestinian Authority to take over from Hamas".
From an interview of his in MSM Politico > https://www.politico.eu/article/ehud-barak-israel-palestine-war-hamas-global-opinion-sours/
Posted by: Memory Man | Nov 7 2023 16:12 utc | 25
Obama is showing signs of decency.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2023 16:00 utc | 22
____
Don’t kid yourself. This is textbook Obamaspeak. Like sympathizing with Occupy while colluding with federal and local “law enforcement” to crush it.
Posted by: malenkov | Nov 7 2023 16:15 utc | 26
It is ironic in some level that Kristallnacht is commemorated throughout the Jewish "community." How many Jews actually lost their lives on Kristallnacht?
Posted by: Jane | Nov 7 2023 15:13 utc | 8
____
Today’s Kristallnacht is going on in the West Bank. Gaza is being given the Warsaw Ghetto treatment.
Posted by: malenkov | Nov 7 2023 16:17 utc | 27
Aleks at Black Mountain Analysis examines the shifting geo-political tectonic plates...
https://bmanalysis.substack.com/p/geopolitics-update
If the start of the Russian Special Military Operation marked the historical beginning of the end of Western Hegemony, then October 7 was a highly potent fire accelerator.
---
rest cut by b. for being way too long
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 7 2023 16:17 utc | 28
I believe the striving we make to read the growing pain in madness in our world, sickening efforts, build a sense of truth that will expend in the main society at its due time. So thank you and my salute to the many fair among you.
Posted by: Baile | Nov 7 2023 14:01 utc | 1
That's a nice sentiment, Baile. I feel the same way more or less about the bar. Something like the enlightenment before the French Revolution.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 7 2023 16:24 utc | 29
I am not familiar with the personal histories of people within the PA.
Mohammad Shtayyeh, the PA PM broke down in years while opening the last meeting, that was after one of the big strikes, I'm losing track
I get that they are seen as collaborationists, traitors etc.
These people have to face much more difficult choices than Netanyahu and his cabinet sitting around deciding which hospital to bomb next.
People in Palestine get to decide whether to take the high road and face torture, being maimed, death or worse, all three.
Or take the low road and possibly spare your family from the worst.
These are not just decisions about taking bribes for financial gain (I am sure there is that too)
I am really grateful I have never had to take such decisions.
From so far away with no dog in this race, I can't find it in my heart to condemn them as people making life choices, throwing the dice to see the best probability of staying alive.
Being faced with the full force of state sanctioned violence is extremely intimidating, much more so than a random robbery or mugging because it is targeted and sanctioned.
Does Israel itself have any hand in this attack? Does it now need to go into the West Bank to offer more "protection"?
Posted by: pq | Nov 7 2023 16:26 utc | 30
Obama is showing signs of decency.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2023 16:00 utc | 22
BO is pure evil. He is the Dark Man behind all this death and destruction in both Ukraine and Palestine. He incited death all thru the middle east with his Arab Spring. A look into his eyes will freeze your bones.
Posted by: Golddigger | Nov 7 2023 16:32 utc | 31
Obama is showing signs of decency.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2023 16:00 utc | 22
Obama is the intellectual author of a half a dozen such slaughters around the world. He's an actor just like Zelinsky. Hell say/do anything for money and power.
And the young Turks!? Come on. Try harder.
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 7 2023 16:33 utc | 32
I hope the Palestinians, after millions killed, would abandon the good book and go into druidism, tao or back to the tolerant roman/greek gods.
Who knows, the old gods will come back and put this Yahweh in a kryptonite box for a millenia.
Posted by: chola3 | Nov 7 2023 16:39 utc | 33
^^^ Mental instability. A self-loathing nihilistic outlook.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2023 16:20 utc | 31
Agree, but I think the correct term is misanthrope or possible sociopath or psychopath.
Posted by: bill wolfe | Nov 7 2023 16:41 utc | 34
@ malenkov | Nov 7 2023 16:15 utc | 28
Obama is merely the café au lait version of blackface servicing the entrenched establishment elite.
Posted by: majoab | Nov 7 2023 16:44 utc | 35
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2023 16:00 utc | 22
These guys aren't perfect, but they would be a big improvement on the people you still think have some potential.
This article is actually pretty good.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/11/07/tday-n07.html
Posted by: Ahenobarbus | Nov 7 2023 16:45 utc | 36
Obama is showing signs of decency.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2023 16:00 utc | 22
Obama is worried about his "legacy". Among the Neocons and their ilk, he is the only one smart enough to understand they might not get their way, they might lose; and that is what he is expressing, his perception that they are in over their heads.
He would not know decency if it walked up and clubbed him in the head.
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 7 2023 16:47 utc | 37
One name hasn't been mentioned it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marwan_Barghouti
He has long been considered as the only person who can unite the different factions. Apparently, this was put on the table as recently as August. Ksa
/Iran.... then Ksa/Isr.... but Qatar played the useful MB idiots to crush the party.
Posted by: Minaa | Nov 7 2023 16:50 utc | 38
Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 7 2023 16:17 utc | 30
That's how I've been seeing it all along. I'd forecast similar when Russia was included in OPEC+. I figured that Russia would trade outside the USD and that this shift would set up the rush to the exits.
Yes, it's about resources, it's ALWAYS about resources. The people are moved in these currents via emotion, via ideologies. And if you follow how ideologies have been/are used you can see how the spearheads are aimed. The underpinnings were being laid a long time ago:
From Munich to the Soviet Steppes: the CIA finds the Muslim Brothers
Posted by: Seer | Nov 7 2023 16:51 utc | 39
Israel is going to need more Jews after the Nakba 2.0 and wider war against Lebanon. Syria, Jordan etc. Expect unprovoked false flags against 'innocent' Jews in the west. One of the main goals of Zionism is to manufacture Jew-hate and encourage emigration to Israel - as the safe haven for world Jewry.
At this point any human who supports the US/UK/IS is a rabbi in the Synagogue of Satan.
Posted by: gottlieb | Nov 7 2023 17:02 utc | 40
When push comes to shove, most American Jews are Zionists.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2023 15:44 utc | 18
===============
Yes, viz. James Howard Kunstler.
Posted by: Jane | Nov 7 2023 17:04 utc | 41
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 7 2023 16:47 utc | 40
Is Obama still alive? I thought Michael killed him with his boyfriend while they were paddleboarding in the bay off Martha's Vineyard.
Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 7 2023 17:08 utc | 42
We all know who these politicians are. My point is that Obama is the only establishment figure at that level, whose rhetoric on the issue isnt advocating a war crime.
TYT is kicking it on the issue:
Cenk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRFKkmsDpuw
Ana: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKxElFQHYzs (1:53:00) 600K views.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2023 17:12 utc | 43
A follow-up, to be a racial supremacist requires a degree of mental instability.
These are not the attitudes and beliefs of healthy, happy, productive people. These are people obsessed with status, power, money, etc.
by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2023 15:49 utc | 19
Let me second Mark2 and mention I appreciate your level-headed comments.
Indeed, "status, power, money, etc." seems the consensus view here for what motivates supremacists. I think that list needs completion and misses the mark.
"obsessed" is the key word in that statement.
Obsession, fixation, distortion (of reality), delusion and psychosis are all mental health terms; That is DSM-5 territory, The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. I'm telling everyone to change their methodology, but to add this analytical view or give it emphasis.
What's odd about the DSM's is that a happy fascists isn't really considered to be mentally ill. It takes a similar view to narcissism in so much that diagnosis shifts with culture. For example, taking selfies frequently as indicating narcissism.
I end up with "status, power, money" being rational motivations, regardless of the evil involved. It seems more likely that low-self esteem, traumas, organic MH disorders, radicalization and other personality problems motivate and fixate supremacy.
That however, can only be in context to family history and values in the larger culture. Finally, I would always apply a biologically consistent theory first. What would chimpanzee do? Do genocide make sense in the animal kingdom? Yes.
To summarize, we might improve our geopolitical analysis through profiling and cross domain sciences. It's something I've seen demonstrated here many times.
Cheers.
Posted by: David G Horsman | Nov 7 2023 17:12 utc | 44
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 7 2023 16:47 utc | 40
Is Obama still alive? I thought Michael killed him with his boyfriend while they were paddleboarding in the bay off Martha's Vineyard.
Posted by: lex talionis | Nov 7 2023 17:08 utc | 45
Shhhhhh!
That was very clumsy wasn't it?
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 7 2023 17:13 utc | 45
Dr [email protected] bit shocked to learn that American, or International for that matter, Zionists do not top down control Western Hegemony/Oligarchy; information, education, entertainment, politics, trade and industry, finance, war and all levels of terrorism. Just a mystery entity, floating through time and space, delivering death and destruction all along the way, all in the name of resources.
Calling spades, spades: not for the feint of heart.
Cheers M
Posted by: sean the leprechaun | Nov 7 2023 17:15 utc | 47
******Commandant Netanyahu********
Netanyahu is now saying that after the Gaza conflict is over,
the Zionists will be in charge of security in the Gaza Concentration Camp.
Posted by: librul | Nov 7 2023 15:05 utc | 6
++++++++++
I don't see how the Holy Holocaust narrative can retain its mojo after this series of horrific events, and the situation is still headed downhill faster and faster. Don't talk to me about the Holocaust.
Posted by: Jane | Nov 7 2023 15:13 utc | 8
He's Ahab, isn't he? Even his crew is horrified. As for good Jews, there are those, even if they can only say 'Call me Ishmael' at present. Melville at least was an American: there's hope even for us in that!
When our literature is the only voice that speaks out the truth, it's time to revisit what it says. I'm so glad I grew up when books were our heritage, not tv shows or online trash. (And I say that being truly grateful for this online space at present; no need to say I bite the hand that feeds me -- sure I do!)
Posted by: juliania | Nov 7 2023 17:17 utc | 48
Is their society capable of this?
Posted by: spenobcu57 | Nov 7 2023 14:05 utc | 2
---
History's magic eight-ball, as recorded in the scriptures, says "No".
Posted by: too scents | Nov 7 2023 17:26 utc | 49
'Iran isn't attacking' while Israel slaughters civilians with daddy Maerica there backing her up. IDF are cowardly betwetters.
Iran is aware Maerica is trying to provoke her into a war. A war the insipid shitheads running Maerica..looking at you Jake Sullivan and whatever sinister fuckups skulk around you..believe foolishly that they can limit to a regional war that will help cover their collosal incompetence and the implosion of the Maerican economy under massive debt. In reality this will result in a world war out of anyone's control. If Maerica doesn't get her cassus belli she will fabricate one using a Gulf of Tonkin style fake.
If the absolute fucking clowns running Maerica...from the generals who have never fought a war against an enemy with an air force to the politicans who have never told a truth to the citizens who have been fed shit all their lives....strike Iran in their insanity, we are all capital F fucked.
So if you can, please try to rein in the fucking Maerican and Israeli psychopaths before the only thing all of our children born and unborn depend on is incinerated by the stupidity of a bunch of greedy murderous idiots. I'd like to think our species is capable of more than this.
Posted by: Doctor Eleven | Nov 7 2023 17:26 utc | 50
We are not animals.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 7 2023 17:18 utc | 51
---
Spend time in Nature. With humility. Learn something beyond human narcissism.
Posted by: too scents | Nov 7 2023 17:34 utc | 51
@ Baile | Nov 7 2023 14:01 utc | 1
well said.. thanks..
@ spenobcu57 | Nov 7 2023 14:05 utc | 2
history suggests they are not capable.. cheers..
Posted by: james | Nov 7 2023 17:34 utc | 52
Thanks to anon for perspective on MacGregor @ yesterday's Palestine thread.
Just now listening to a long rant by Ritter from Oct 27 that Hamas has outsmarted the Zions and deliberately set out to bring on the massacre as its chief weapon to destroy Israel. (I don't doff my hat to Hamas for doing this.) Hamas now controls the narrative and outrage coming down on the Zionists. He also declares he was at one time devoted to Israel but they have "lost" him. (Not clear how far back in his history this was, given massacre of innocents in Gaza is hardly a new thing.) He now "prays" for Israel's defeat. As to Oct 7 IDF inflicted much of the damage on itself. So we have these same mentalities--kill innocents as a weapon of self-righteousness--and he seems to approve of what Hamas has brought on here in its role of facilitating the Zionist massacre. (But maybe I'm wrong and he doesn't approve of it.)
(I can supply the link if anyone wants it.)
Posted by: botete | Nov 7 2023 17:36 utc | 53
He's Ahab, isn't he? Even his crew is horrified.
Posted by: juliania | Nov 7 2023 17:17 utc | 50
Yes, Ahab, I was searching for that, perfect.
Posted by: Bemildred | Nov 7 2023 17:38 utc | 54
Replying to: spenobcu57 | Nov 7 2023 14:05 utc | 2
"Israel (a small country surrounded by hostile populations) can only hope to survive by the largesse of the western Christian countries.."
The Catholic Church did not acknowledge the state of Israel until 1993. Think about it: For nearly 2,000 years, from the beginnings of Christianity, Catholics, not even Protestants called for a State for the dispersed people. If the West largely now supports the existence of the apartheid state, it is precisely because the Christian West, and notably, the hierarchy of the Catholic Church, since Vatican II, has embarked on a new venture by relegating to the sidelines, its traditional, 2000-year deposit of Divine Revelation. In other words, since the Church is weak, that creates a vacuum permitting the ingress of error in place of solid, true doctrine. The Christian world has largely apostasized. That is why there is no strong stand against the Protestant Darby heresy (yes, it is heresy) as there once was. St. Pius X was the last of the valiant vicars of Christ. He let it be known in no uncertain terms that the creation of a 'new' Israel could not meet with the approval, nor the encouragement of Rome. There are still solidly orthodox Catholics, but they are not the ones in power. It is apostate "Christians" who are mainly responsible for the existence of that apartheid state, not the real Christianity of the Church Fathers.
Posted by: hispanidad | Nov 7 2023 17:39 utc | 55
@ 51 & 52
I do understand we are the Apex predator, however I disagree with the Cartesian Dualism aspect. We are animals, period (vegetable or mineral being the only other options). To separate us as more than that is to say we are better which has to invoke some form of religious mindtrap.
If one is going to accept that, then the only answer is we are pure evil and there's no hope for the planet. That's why we need to dispense with the 'soul' fallacy and let our intelligence find solutions and peace, as Bemildred mentioned.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 7 2023 17:40 utc | 56
I am thinking of Prometheus stealing the fire and endowing us with techne.
There is a difference...
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 7 2023 17:18 utc | 51
This is part of the psychological baggage of the Western mind that causes a lot of the problems in the modern world. For the Western man, knowledge requires "theft" from the divine. From Hermes to Jacob, deception & theft is celebrated in the divine hero.
Oddly enough, thinking about it, Jacob stole from his brother (fooling his father) and Hermes stole from Apollo (don't recall the Zeus angle).
> There is a difference...
Yes. Muslims understand knowledge to be bestowed and that it comes in two types. The dangerous type comes with warnings regarding it being "a trial".
Naturally, one would expect a future Muslim civilization to establish a distinct relationship between technology and humanity.
(Needless to say we do not look to quarters such as the self-designated Ayatollahs of IR (for example) for such wonderful developments.)
But fundamentally, the position of a Muslim in context of acquisition of knowledge and "techne" is distinct from the Western approach.
It's funny how Tolkien was urging on "men of the West" to fight orcs but he missed how the "metalic mind" of the "Tower" is the logical end state of the Western orientation toward knowledge and technology.
Posted by: robinthehood | Nov 7 2023 17:43 utc | 57
To: Rubiconned | Nov 7 2023 15:38 utc | 17
Dreizen makes himself a god. He exults himself while ridiculing others who have more decency than himself. I dropped him like a hot potato.
Posted by: hispanidad | Nov 7 2023 17:45 utc | 58
From the latest ticker, https://english.almanar.com.lb/
19:02 Islamic Resistance fighters in Iraq have targeted the US occupation base in the Koniko gas field in the northern countryside of Deir Al-Zor with a rocket attack, hitting their targets directly: statement
18:46 Speaker Berri Follows Up on South Lebanon Situation with Mikati, Broaches Developments with US Envoy Hochstein More..
18:09 Hezbollah Strikes Israeli Artillery Launchers in Occupied Palestine More..
16:41 Israeli media: Sirens sounded in northern Golan
15:55 Al-Qassam Brigades destroys two tanks north of Beit Hanoun with “Yasin 105” shells: statement
15:32 Palestinian health ministry in Gaza: Israeli enemy committed new massacre in Deir Al-Balah
15:18 Islamic Resistance in Iraq Intensifies Attacks on US Bases More..
15:08 Al-Qassam Brigades announces destruction of 10 Israeli tanks and vehicles today
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 7 2023 17:47 utc | 59
For example, knowing how to split the atom is knowledge.
The Western man took but a little self-persuassion to decide to weaponize it and use it on fellow human beings. The thought that it was 'fundamentally a sin' never seem to have occured.
Posted by: robinthehood | Nov 7 2023 17:48 utc | 60
@ number 6 Net sets it straight on who will be in charge
The tail wagging the dog seems to be thumping furiously at this point as Net sets Blink straight on Blink's proposal that an international force should be in charge of Gaza "once this is over."
No, it won't says Net, smiling to himself. WE control the situation.
Continued humiliation of the Sec of State (hence Biden) I feel is a widening crack in the crockpot of this moment at a global scale, admin panic growing.
Posted by: botete | Nov 7 2023 17:52 utc | 61
So I submit to the bar that this deeply buried bug in the mind of the West -- knowledge is gained by misappropriation -- coupled with the fact that "knowledge is good" gives rise to an unconscious ethical bias that "crime pays".
Crime pays. That is the bug deeply buried in the Western psyche.
Posted by: robinthehood | Nov 7 2023 17:54 utc | 62
There is little difference between events in Gaza and the events in Sabra and Shatila - Obligations under the Fourth Geneva Convention require the UN to expressly qualify Israel's actions as an act of genocide, acknowledging they were perpetrated in territory under full control of the Israeli Defense Forces. Netanyahu never changes. Palestine was granted full sovereignty and self determination in 1974 by the UN; the UN and the international community need to finally make this a reality, with a sharp toothed protectorate protecting Palestinians from Israeli predations which have been ongoing since 1947. Rendering Gazans free to develop their land - with seaport, airport, independent financial and banking operations, as well as full and complete opportunity to develop all natural resources and geopolitical opportunities. Full and complete freedom.
Posted by: abierno | Nov 7 2023 16:07 utc | 25
Thank you for posting this letter. When scanning headlines this morning I set aside a couple of articles to read later on this idea of a "Protectorate." This is a new concept/idea for me. I'd love to learn what folks here know and think about this idea?
At some point humanity, at least a majority of us, must put forward and get behind a political solution to end this madness. And this idea of a Protectorate has some serious possibilities.
A protectorate, in the context of international relations, is a state that is under protection by another state for defence against aggression and other violations of law.[1] It is a dependent territory that enjoys autonomy over most of its internal affairs, while still recognizing the suzerainty of a more powerful sovereign state without being a possession.[2][3][4] In exchange, the protectorate usually accepts specified obligations depending on the terms of their arrangement.[4] Usually protectorates are established de jure by a treaty.[2][3] Under certain conditions—as with Egypt under British rule (1882–1914)—a state can also be labelled as a de facto protectorate or a veiled protectorate.[5][6][7]A protectorate is different from a colony as it has local rulers, is not directly possessed, and rarely experiences colonization by the suzerain state.[8][9] A state that is under the protection of another state while retaining its "international personality" is called a "protected state", not a protectorate.[10][a]
I know Wikipedia stinks, but it's a start.
Although unspoken, but isn't this a similar concept to Russia's protection of Syria?
Good things can come from doing evil things.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Condoleezza_Rice_cropped.jpg
Or heck, this Zionist project business. The bug is cause.
Posted by: robinthehood | Nov 7 2023 17:55 utc | 64
I feel Israel's only hope for the long term is to come to an accord with the Palestinians and treat them humanely. Is their society capable of this?
Posted by: spenobcu57 | Nov 7 2023 14:05 utc | 2
I join james at Nov 7 2023 17:34 utc | 56 in commending the first post on this thread, and when james says that 'history suggests they [Israel's society] are not capable...' I would complete the sentence to say ...not capable of statehood, past or present. The society is capable as a culture within a state - history shows this as well. But certainly the history that is currently being made shows that statehood for Israel is a failure as presently constituted.
Which leaves the future open to change, and demanding it.
Posted by: juliania | Nov 7 2023 18:00 utc | 65
Latest in:
Israeli warplanes over Beirut after Hezbollah strikes of Israeli artillery positions earlier today.
Posted by: Memory Man | Nov 7 2023 18:08 utc | 66
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 7 2023
Thank you - seems Hezbollah and Hamas are extra active. Poor IDF conscripts
Posted by: Exile | Nov 7 2023 18:30 utc | 67
Posted by: robinthehood | Nov 7 2023 17:43 utc | 57
###################
I very much enjoyed your comments on the contrast between civilizations. Thank you.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2023 18:34 utc | 68
Re: Protectorate
Why would the Levantine Arabs agree to this, since the IDF is getting pummeled ? The constellation of forces is overwhelmingly favoring the Arabs
Posted by: Exile | Nov 7 2023 18:34 utc | 69
here's a video that Norman Finkelstein just made, in response to statements by Bernie Sanders: https://scheerpost.com/2023/11/07/norman-finkelstein-responds-to-bernie-sanders/
Posted by: V.I. Fishmael | Nov 7 2023 18:38 utc | 70
The prophecy is that the Middle East will be administered by the Muslims, with Christians and Jews living peacefully within.
Basically, the opposite of Zionism.
I've mentioned the Qadar of Allah several times. Any serious Muslim believes that these prophecies, like the return of the Mahdi (Messiah) are inevitable, even if individual Muslims make what look like the wrong moves.
We can never truly know the heart and mind of another person, so when I see all of these critiques of inaction, I keep that in mind. It could be that they are bought off and cowardly. With how hot Arab blood often runs, the pictures of the bombing victims could have already seen Israel razed to the ground. The leaders may be and should be trying to moderate the impulse to wipe Israel off of the map, which is what a righteous and responsible leader should be doing.
Even the biggest fan of America has to accept that they (and their vassals) are badly outnumbered globally, and the Russians continue to demonstrate that the West has lost the arms race to the Russians, I believe the Chinese, who haven't yet show-cased all of their capabilities.
Posted by: LoveDonbass | Nov 7 2023 18:44 utc | 71
Posted by: spenobcu57 | Nov 7 2023 14:05 utc | 2:
I am not Jewish, Muslim or Christian and don't come from any of the countries historically involved in this conflict. I don't have any skin in this particular game but I find the behaviour of Israel's government and society repulsive. To me it is not a surprise, because I am well read up on the history of this issue, but there are millions of younger people out there looking at what is happening, and opinions that were previously neutral or positive towards Israel are changing.
Same here. The disheartening part of my sentiment on this particular issue is the societal character of the Jewish views. Barflies here have been distinguishing between Zionists and Jews in general, but in my own experiences I haven't seen much differences. I've known Jews from N America (oh my, by the hundreds), in Southeast Asia where I grew up and became intellectually informed, from S America in colleges, and many, many from Europe. They all carry the baggage, explicitly or inherently, of being the chosen race. They all advocate, explicitly or silently, the cleansing of Palestine of non-Jews, using the necessity of ethnic survival as their excuse for their stand. Somehow, I sensed that the majority of Jews I know are supporters of using nukes to achieve their so-called spiritual goal as necessary. In terms of maintaining their exceptionality as a human race, there is no higher moral standard. In other words, they feel justified to do anything!!!
It's amazing! From my readings it seems this feeling has been the same since many, many centuries B. C. It's a primitive culture, one not different from the Chinese mystical stories of Bangu splitting the world with an axe to create heaven and earth and of Chan Er flying to the moon. It seems the western religious culture is as primal as it gets but is now being shoveled down every modern-day human being's throat, by force when necessary. Unfortunately, for the past 500 hundred years, ones who believed, and wanted everyone else to also believe, that the world is created in 7 days and a guy rose from death, is the inalienable truth to swear by and adhere to. Yeah! Palestine belongs to the Jews, and Palestine consist of all that land in the minds of Judeo-Christians, stretching from the Med, North/South/East all the way to eternity.
Posted by: Oriental Voice | Nov 7 2023 19:04 utc | 72
Western Propaganda Gets More Desperate as World Majority Sides with China and Russia Against the US over Gaza
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 7 2023 19:08 utc | 73
Apparently, the real reason for the October 7 attack and pending WW3 is that a red heifer was about to be sacrificed.
Why now?
The trigger for the 7 October attack was Hamas’s concern that far-right Jews intended to sacrifice an animal at the site of al-Aqsa Mosque, thus laying the ground for the demolition of the Dome on the Rock shrine and the building of the Third Temple, he said.... According to some messianic religious sects like the Temple Institute, a red heifer without a blemish must be sacrificed to purify the ground before the Third Temple can be rebuilt.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-how-hamas-sees-gaza-conflict-unfolding
That make sense, perfectly understandable really. Where is Douglas Adams when you need him?
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2023 19:11 utc | 74
Pepe Escobar weighs in....
https://new.thecradle.co/articles/russias-public-pivot-to-palestine
Putin took no time to cut to the chase detailing the official stand of the Russian Federation in the current geopolitical incandescence of two intertwined wars, Ukraine and Israel-Palestine.
“We must clearly understand who in reality is behind the tragedy of peoples in the Middle East and in other regions around the world, who has been organizing this lethal chaos and who benefits from it.”
In no uncertain terms, Putin described “the current ruling elites in the United States and its satellites” as “the main beneficiaries of the global instability that they use to extract their bloody rent.
Bernard...
Earlier I posted Alek's view of things as posted at his Black Mountain Analysis blog.
I see congruence between his view of current geo-political events, and Putin's statement(s) as quoted by Pepe Escobar...
It seems to me... that it is time for you to research and publish a post on these matters, from your unique German view point..
BECAUSE...
The end game is near... I can sense it.. at least in Ukraine...
AND...
It's either a NATO climb down... or WWIII...
In my view....
So, my German friend... which path do you anticipate from your loft in Germany?
INDY
Posted by: Dr. George W Oprisko | Nov 7 2023 19:11 utc | 75
@51 too scents
I can see why you would take my comment as narcissism or unconquered human frailty. This is the post-Christian humanist view that says if only man would just resign that he was but an animal that he would suffer a necessary "ego-drath" and finally reach some kind of universal integration whereby he finds his place in realty or founds his home.
This is stupid and a degrading form of thinking that was bestowed upon you from Christianity,for which you have run into the ground. You are basically a spoiled child railing against his parents for their privilege: in the states we call them trust-fund babies and they are often lavished with luxuries including ivy-league education, designer drugs, and hedonism.
There is no integration with reality for the human being to enter into like the animals have. Our Dasein prohibits this: it is both a curse and a blessing, our fall and our means for salvation.
You are the narcissist pointing out "your integration" as if it was a quality I lacked.
Posted by: NemesisCalling | Nov 7 2023 19:18 utc | 76
Posted by: Arch Bungle | Nov 7 2023 14:11 utc | 3
"The Greatest Tyranny in the Middle East, perhaps in the world is terrified of one young woman ..."
Of course, she's a big troublemaker and likes to run her mouth calling for rivers of Jewish blood. How very cheerful. If Israel were more like Russia or Ukraine, she would disappear and never be heard from again. Like Gonzalo Lira.
Posted by: Jose J. | Nov 7 2023 19:19 utc | 77
@75
Israel make USSR seem benevolent
Instead of professional murder their settlers ad lib
Their huge concentration camp system would make Mao jealous, as well as Afrikaners
Posted by: paddy | Nov 7 2023 19:24 utc | 78
The western polatitans and media know they can condone these atrocitys, becouse they know the public apathy.
Problem >>>> solution.
Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 7 2023 19:29 utc | 79
Posted by: Jose J. | Nov 7 2023 19:19 utc | 75
I searched all over for your accusation against Ahed, but cannot find anything....outside of zionazi online hasbara outlets.
So, please leave
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 7 2023 19:32 utc | 80
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 7 2023 19:32 utc | 78
“We will slaughter you and we'll drink your blood and eat your skulls”.
Sorry if the truth hurts. She posted it on Instagram. Not really hard to find.
Posted by: Jose J. | Nov 7 2023 19:35 utc | 81
Ah our resident bigot is back now he is show his hate for women. He must live in a lonely white man world with his little computer
Posted by: Susan | Nov 7 2023 19:36 utc | 82
Sorry, Jose
I didn't know it was posted on Instagram so must be true. Everyone knows that can't be hacked and has no filters against anti-jewish speech, zuck made sure of that.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 7 2023 19:40 utc | 83
For all the anger and frustration with Genocide Joe, don't think for a second that Trump would be any better.
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/11/07/leak-trump-ambassador-israel-nyu-palestine-protests/
The Grayzone has obtained a letter signed by former President Trump’s fanatically pro-settler ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, and sent to New York University leadership demanding the school crack down on free speech to satisfy Israeli interests.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 7 2023 19:49 utc | 84
In LA somewhere an 69 yr old Jewish man fell over or was pushed and died as a counter protestor at a pro Palestine rally. Another 10000 kids will have to bombed to bits to cover for that.
Posted by: Hankster | Nov 7 2023 19:50 utc | 85
paddy@76
What is the source of your information about Mao or the USSR? The Church? The schools? The government? The media? Guesswork?
All of the above?
Posted by: bevin | Nov 7 2023 19:51 utc | 86
Only a matter of time before they do away with the stars and stripes, the unionjack and run up the Israel flag in all our countrys,
Who'd complain ?
Were their all ready.
Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 7 2023 19:55 utc | 87
spenobcu57 | Nov 7 2023 14:05 utc | 2--
Sad to read your POV. Everyone on the planet has "skin in this game" as this is Genocide, the most vile, Anti-Human action any entity might perform. It's an act ALL humans must condemn.
I do hope you'll see my reply and reconsider your POV.
Article from website :
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-live-gaza-hamas-war-invasion
Scoll down page
Quoted in full.
Russia says Israeli nuclear remark needs international investigation
4 hours ago
Russia's foreign ministry suggested on Tuesday that international nuclear inspectors should be sent to Israel after a minister said using a nuclear bomb in Gaza was an option.
Maria Zakharova, Russia's foreign ministry spokeswoman, said the remark by Israeli Heritage
Minister Amihay Ben-Eliyahu "raised a huge number of questions".
"Question number one - it turns out that we are hearing official statements about the presence of nuclear weapons?" Zakharova was quoted as saying by state RIA news agency.
If so, she added, then where are the International Atomic Energy Agency and international nuclear inspectors?
Israel does not publicly acknowledge it has nuclear weapons, though the Federation of American Scientists estimates Israel has about 90 nuclear warheads, according to Reuters news agency.
Posted by: Fíréan | Nov 7 2023 19:59 utc | 89
Obama is showing signs of decency.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2023 16:00 utc | 22
BO is pure evil. He is the Dark Man behind all this death and destruction in both Ukraine and Palestine. He incited death all thru the middle east with his Arab Spring. A look into his eyes will freeze your bones.
Posted by: Golddigger | Nov 7 2023 16:32 utc | 31
Obama is but a messenger boy.
Guys: Obama, Bush and Shrubs, Clinton they are all messenger boys. They didn't rule. The last president to actually rule was John F. Kennedy.
And 60 years later all the redacted papers about his assassination are still sealed.
All Western politics are Kabuki theatre.
Apparently, the October 7 attack was made because a red heifer was about to be sacrificed.
Why now?
The trigger for the 7 October attack was Hamas’s concern that far-right Jews intended to sacrifice an animal at the site of al-Aqsa Mosque, thus laying the ground for the demolition of the Dome on the Rock shrine and the building of the Third Temple, he said....According to some messianic religious sects like the Temple Institute, a red heifer without a blemish must be sacrificed to purify the ground before the Third Temple can be rebuilt.
Red Angus cows have been imported from the US for this purpose. One Third Temple group said earlier this year that it hoped to slaughter five imported heifers during next year’s Passover holiday, which falls in April 2024. MEE’s source said that al-Aqsa had already been divided in time and noted that settlers had made “vegetable sacrifices” at the site.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-how-hamas-sees-gaza-conflict-unfolding
This all makes perfect sense now.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2023 20:04 utc | 91
All Western politics are Kabuki theatre.
Posted by: canuck | Nov 7 2023 19:59 utc | 87
So, who are the puppetmasters? Blackrock, State Street, Rocthschilds, WEF, Klaus Schwab?
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 7 2023 20:07 utc | 92
Marwan Barghouti is one of the Palestinian hostages held by Israel who Hamas wants released.
Posted by: Chas | Nov 7 2023 20:08 utc | 93
@Posted by: V.I. Fishmael | Nov 7 2023 18:38 utc | 70
"If you have nothing constructive to say, Bernie, shut up."
Posted by: librul | Nov 7 2023 20:10 utc | 94
Apparently, the reason for WW3 is that a red heifer was about to be scarified. From Middle East Eye:
Why now?
The trigger for the 7 October attack was Hamas’s concern that far-right Jews intended to sacrifice an animal at the site of al-Aqsa Mosque, thus laying the ground for the demolition of the Dome on the Rock shrine and the building of the Third Temple, he said.... According to some messianic religious sects like the Temple Institute, a red heifer without a blemish must be sacrificed to purify the ground before the Third Temple can be rebuilt.
...
Red Angus cows have been imported from the US for this purpose. One Third Temple group said earlier this year that it hoped to slaughter five imported heifers during next year’s Passover holiday, which falls in April 2024. MEE’s source said that al-Aqsa had already been divided in time and noted that settlers had made “vegetable sacrifices” at the site.
It all makes perfect sense now.
Posted by: Turk 152 | Nov 7 2023 20:17 utc | 95
I notice a definite attempt by FT to downplay the massaces in Gaza. Comments sections on all subjects, even those minimally connected have been suppressed since the start. Attempts are being made to put an "innocent" face on the IDF. (young girls in uniform ..oooh, wouldn't hurt a fly ...). First by suppression of common outrage, then "the authorities say,,,*, the quantity of articles (Unread by me anyway) has been reduced and separated, Headlines in smaller typefaces/font sizes.
***
Oriental Voice | Nov 7 2023 19:04 utc | 72
"societal character" in Zionists and Jews.
I put this down to explicit education from a very early age. Plus continual reinforcement at key stages throughout lfe. (School, Army etc.) Including Rabbinical hold on marriages and societal acceptance, conditionment in synagogues and cohesion through group events.
Most of this is to get the person to obey, and submit to one strict set of rules and one source of "authority".
This is sold as a means of "self-protection" and has it's advantages as well for the individual. ie. Lending money and influence within the community, which must be paid back. Emphasis on education as a whole. Belonging to what is in effect an "old boys network". etc.
Rituals are subject to the same problems as in the Catholic Church, with the same hidden faults. (Partisanship and woke among them.)
*
Now this formed the basis of a strong army in antiquity, as wars at the time where the mass of soldiers were relatively unmotivated peasants mixed with a crop of mercenaries and "Rascal men", (a tribal term for socially excluded thugs).
Very useful for a tribe for massacring the neighbours in the world of several thousand years ago. But why do we have to accept the morals of prehistory as acceptable in societies today? Recent efforts at introducing "woke", dumbing down potential rivals with stupidifying education, fluorine in the water, division and bloody diversions are all part of the attempt to reduce others societal gains, all the better to "command".
*
In Palestine, any new order will come up against the same indoctrinated people. Those who cannot conceive themselves to be at an equal level with the original Palestinians, or open to any western "advice".
It will take a generation to change fundamentally. Clips of veterans of the first Nakba reliving and describing the atrocities of that period that they committed, show that they consider themselves as "heros".
***
Oddly enough, I think that the thing that will overturn Israeli society is greed. There is never "enough" so in the end they will eat themselves.
@turk 152
Perhaps if they did, that would end Modi's slobbering embrace of the zionists and Indian weapons would be aimed at them too.
Posted by: hedlykarok | Nov 7 2023 20:21 utc | 97
CNN: Would you go back to Gaza?
American Nurse: “In a heartbeat. My heart is in Gaza. The Palestinian people are the most incredible people I’ve met. Absolute heroes. If I could have a small amount of the courage they have I would die a happy person.”
https://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/1721954842577396202
Posted by: Menz | Nov 7 2023 20:24 utc | 98
As i understand it from memory...
Ther was a large interaction between the american law inforcement cops and the izzy law inforcement (sic)
For 'training purposes' we were told.
Cops went to Israel and their trainers went to the US.
In Trumps term of office.
With the resulting blood bath on the streets of America.
With a predictable backlash by the victems comuintys.
A back lash not disimilar to the palistinians understandable 'reaction' over the years.
Provocation 》》》》》 reaction 》》》》vilification.
World domination tryed and failed in Ukraine reattempted in palistine.
Comming to a street near you.
Posted by: Mark2 | Nov 7 2023 20:29 utc | 99
"An extensive investigation by Al Jazeera Digital debunks Israeli forces' claim of a Hamas tunnel beneath Gaza's Sheikh Hamad Hospital. The findings provide no grounds to support the allegations."
https://twitter.com/sarphireee/status/1721983500985794929
Posted by: Menz | Nov 7 2023 20:31 utc | 100
The comments to this entry are closed.
I salute many of you. I read MoA since one year, and it makes me shift sides. For long I sided with Zionism. I see as you, that the world situation implies many levels. Notably, the level of childish belief of the uninformed people (including myself), the money side, the militar side, and as M. Crooke was saying the « eschatologic side » (Karlof1 142 of 11/6 palestine Thread).
It stroke me that it checks with the Four orders of the indoeuropean. Three technicity (money, arms and ruling, and metaphysics) and the lay people. The marchands, the warriors and the priests (or judges as Samuel). (the three keys of the pope John XXII and succesors).
This site is a way to mature our warrior side. It is not about fighting, it is about seing what happens. (trolls are haineous children, unable to mature). The classe of warriors is the class of rulers. Kings warranting peace.
In a fair society, there is not the incredible amount of lies and perverted madness we see now in westren societies. There was no lying between the members of the french resistance. They where true warriors.
The lies we see growing prove, I believe, that the West is collapsed. Dead man walking. A duck with no head anymore still running.
I believe the striving we make to read the growing pain in madness in our world, sickening efforts, build a sense of truth that will expend in the main society at its due time. So thank you and my salute to the many fair among you.
Posted by: Baile | Nov 7 2023 14:01 utc | 1