Only for news & views directly related to the war in Palestine.
The current open thread for other issues is here.
Please stick to the topic. Contribute facts. Do not attack other commentators.
Back to Main
November 6, 2023
Palestine Open Thread 2023-263
Comments
To Jose J.
340
Countless lies have already been told about the Zionist carpet bombing of 15 Gaza hospitals, or whatever their current score may be. Yet you believe what the same people tell you about the mythical events of 4,000 years ago.
I’ll give you a good deal on London Bridge, and I’ll even throw in the Tower of London for free.
Just one thing is worth clearing up.
“The Arab armies invaded Israel, lost, this has consequences.”
This account of 1948 has already been extensively debunked by many Israeli historians, Morris, Gantz, many others. You can only peddle this line because of the layers of Zionist lies over the decades and the deliberate ignorance fostered by the lying corporate media.
What happened in 1948 was that the Palestinians were completely defenceless. Their political and military organisation had been brutally smashed under the British mandate to give a free hand to the Jew terror organisations (that were set up by the British by people like the racist fanatic Orde Wingate.)
The Jew terror groups, which numbered about 65,000 armed Jews lavishly funded and supported by international Zionism, began an extensive , pre planned campaign of ruthless ethnic cleansing to drive the Arab population from Palestine. Thousands were murdered and raped in orchestrated Nazi style atrocities. Wells were poisoned with typhus as an organised policy. It was only when thousands had been murdered and about 300,000 had already been expelled that there was a half hearted attempt to intervene from outside Palestine – the mythical “seven Arab armies” so beloved of Zionist folklore.
What were these “7 Arab armies” ? A rag tag bunch of about 21,500 armed Arabs. 10,000 from Egypt, 6,000 from Jordan, and 5,500 from Syria, Iraq and Lebanon. Not well led, not well equipped, not well anything. So they were outnumbered 3 – 1 by the Jew terror groups.
At the time, all the surrounding countries were still basically colonies of European powers. Egypt was a British colony until well into the 1950s. Lebanon and Syria had only just become nominally independent. Jordan and Iraq were still British colonies.
Under the circumstances, those Arab forces didn’t do too badly. They managed to prevent the Zionist forces from seizing Gaza, Jerusalem and the West Bank (at least until 1967 when they began another war of aggression to steal what they hadn’t been able to steal in 1948.)
It would take too long to debunk all the other nonsense in your post.
I would just repeat what has been said already. These people lie about everything, brazenly, reflexively, as a matter of course. If they lie about their genocidal hospital bombing antics of a week ago,how can anyone with two brain cells to rub together believe anything they have to say about the events of 75 years ago, let alone 4,000 years ago???
Posted by: anon | Nov 8 2023 2:47 utc | 701
To Jose J.
340
Countless lies have already been told about the Zionist carpet bombing of 15 Gaza hospitals, or whatever their current score may be. Yet you believe what the same people tell you about the mythical events of 4,000 years ago.
I’ll give you a good deal on London Bridge, and I’ll even throw in the Tower of London for free.
Just one thing is worth clearing up.
“The Arab armies invaded Israel, lost, this has consequences.”
This account of 1948 has already been extensively debunked by many Israeli historians, Morris, Gantz, many others. You can only peddle this line because of the layers of Zionist lies over the decades and the deliberate ignorance fostered by the lying corporate media.
What happened in 1948 was that the Palestinians were completely defenceless. Their political and military organisation had been brutally smashed under the British mandate to give a free hand to the Jew terror organisations (that were set up by the British by people like the racist fanatic Orde Wingate.)
The Jew terror groups, which numbered about 65,000 armed Jews lavishly funded and supported by international Zionism, began an extensive , pre planned campaign of ruthless ethnic cleansing to drive the Arab population from Palestine. Thousands were murdered and raped in orchestrated Nazi style atrocities. Wells were poisoned with typhus as an organised policy. It was only when thousands had been murdered and about 300,000 had already been expelled that there was a half hearted attempt to intervene from outside Palestine – the mythical “seven Arab armies” so beloved of Zionist folklore.
What were these “7 Arab armies” ? A rag tag bunch of about 21,500 armed Arabs. 10,000 from Egypt, 6,000 from Jordan, and 5,500 from Syria, Iraq and Lebanon. Not well led, not well equipped, not well anything. So they were outnumbered 3 – 1 by the Jew terror groups.
At the time, all the surrounding countries were still basically colonies of European powers. Egypt was a British colony until well into the 1950s. Lebanon and Syria had only just become nominally independent. Jordan and Iraq were still British colonies.
Under the circumstances, those Arab forces didn’t do too badly. They managed to prevent the Zionist forces from seizing Gaza, Jerusalem and the West Bank (at least until 1967 when they began another war of aggression to steal what they hadn’t been able to steal in 1948.)
It would take too long to debunk all the other nonsense in your post.
I would just repeat what has been said already. These people lie about everything, brazenly, reflexively, as a matter of course. If they lie about their genocidal hospital bombing antics of a week ago,how can anyone with two brain cells to rub together believe anything they have to say about the events of 75 years ago, let alone 4,000 years ago???
Posted by: anon | Nov 8 2023 2:47 utc | 702
do most posters think this latest episode in the israel-palestine conflict will die down again and things will continue on as normal, or do you think we are at an actual critical turning point where a real change takes place? my thoughts tend towards the former as opposed to the later..
@ james | Nov 6 2023 16:36 utc | 1
IMO the conflict will die down again (as always) and things will continue on as (more or less) normal but with maybe ahigher level of disgust/criticisms against Israel in the future
Nothing will essentially change – the concentration camps, ethnic cleansing and oppression and tyranny will continue – no nation or group of nations in the world will rise up to stop it.
It’s a pity this old style forum tech cant do real straw Polls.
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 8 2023 4:44 utc | 703
do most posters think this latest episode in the israel-palestine conflict will die down again and things will continue on as normal, or do you think we are at an actual critical turning point where a real change takes place? my thoughts tend towards the former as opposed to the later..
@ james | Nov 6 2023 16:36 utc | 1
IMO the conflict will die down again (as always) and things will continue on as (more or less) normal but with maybe ahigher level of disgust/criticisms against Israel in the future
Nothing will essentially change – the concentration camps, ethnic cleansing and oppression and tyranny will continue – no nation or group of nations in the world will rise up to stop it.
It’s a pity this old style forum tech cant do real straw Polls.
Posted by: Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 8 2023 4:44 utc | 704
@ Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 8 2023 4:44 utc | 351
i am torn on this.. i tend to lean the same way as you on this, although the one major caveat is the rise of russia/china and the lowering of usa unipolarness at this juncture.. that could definitely tip it differently.. maybe it is a 40/60 type thing, or maybe i am wrong on the odds here.. cheers..
Posted by: james | Nov 8 2023 6:42 utc | 705
@ Lavrov’s Dog | Nov 8 2023 4:44 utc | 351
i am torn on this.. i tend to lean the same way as you on this, although the one major caveat is the rise of russia/china and the lowering of usa unipolarness at this juncture.. that could definitely tip it differently.. maybe it is a 40/60 type thing, or maybe i am wrong on the odds here.. cheers..
Posted by: james | Nov 8 2023 6:42 utc | 706
Posted by: Jose J. | Nov 7 2023 10:01 utc | 293
Or, put another way, 330,000 zombies looking for a feast have been inexorably drawn towards the smell of blood.
Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Nov 8 2023 7:20 utc | 707
Posted by: Jose J. | Nov 7 2023 10:01 utc | 293
Or, put another way, 330,000 zombies looking for a feast have been inexorably drawn towards the smell of blood.
Posted by: Jon_in_AU | Nov 8 2023 7:20 utc | 708
Peter AU1 | Nov 7 2023 12:16 utc | 319
tbh I don’t remember much about the joint Ch-Ru statement – should check it again.
The economic decline of the West would’ve happened regardless of the Russia sanctions – they may be the/one catalyst, but not the cause. Western wealth was always based on exploitation of the RoW, 10% of global population getting 90% of resources. With the rise of China & BRICS, that kind of one-sided distribution couldn’t last. What cannot go on forever, won’t.
I see the war against Russia mostly as a struggle for distribution of power & stuff *within* the West.
The question is who (within the first world) must reduce resource use first, and how fast. Europe bears the brunt for now, while US/UK reassert their leadership among the West & continue their over-consumption a little longer – but they, too, will see their (material) wealth shrink dramatically.
And I really wonder how peaceful and democratic that process will be.
There’s a choice to be made:
Either give everyone the basic necessities for a decent life – or let a minority live in luxury, while the rest (more or less literally) starve. Democracy vs. barbarianism, socialism vs. capitalism.
———-
Religion…I’d consider it to be a specific type or class of ideology, something I’ve once defined as ‘the love of ideas’. It’s a strong motivator for sure, and people are willing to give their life for ideological reasons whether or not they expect a rebirth or afterlife.
Posted by: smuks | Nov 8 2023 8:22 utc | 709
Peter AU1 | Nov 7 2023 12:16 utc | 319
tbh I don’t remember much about the joint Ch-Ru statement – should check it again.
The economic decline of the West would’ve happened regardless of the Russia sanctions – they may be the/one catalyst, but not the cause. Western wealth was always based on exploitation of the RoW, 10% of global population getting 90% of resources. With the rise of China & BRICS, that kind of one-sided distribution couldn’t last. What cannot go on forever, won’t.
I see the war against Russia mostly as a struggle for distribution of power & stuff *within* the West.
The question is who (within the first world) must reduce resource use first, and how fast. Europe bears the brunt for now, while US/UK reassert their leadership among the West & continue their over-consumption a little longer – but they, too, will see their (material) wealth shrink dramatically.
And I really wonder how peaceful and democratic that process will be.
There’s a choice to be made:
Either give everyone the basic necessities for a decent life – or let a minority live in luxury, while the rest (more or less literally) starve. Democracy vs. barbarianism, socialism vs. capitalism.
———-
Religion…I’d consider it to be a specific type or class of ideology, something I’ve once defined as ‘the love of ideas’. It’s a strong motivator for sure, and people are willing to give their life for ideological reasons whether or not they expect a rebirth or afterlife.
Posted by: smuks | Nov 8 2023 8:22 utc | 710
The difference I see between ideology and religion is that in religion people believe they or other spirit or whatever goes to a better world or sometimes depending on how they behave in this world they will go to a worse place.
Religion has a spiritual basis and ideology does not. I think a case in point is the CIA war of terror where they created Islamic extremism were we saw suicide bombers and assault groups wearing suicide belts so if the got close to the enemy they could blow themselves and the enemy up.
You dont see that in nazism which is an ideology.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 8 2023 2:15 utc | 350
——————————————————————
Peter, Peter, Peter, I agree with most of what you have said above. But nothing you said changes the fact that religion, like Marxism, liberalism, or even fascism is anything more than a system of ideas about how humans should or shouldn’t live together or not live together (many Jews do not want to live with other people and /or religions. The same can be said of many Christians and Muslims).
Yes, most religions have a “spiritual aspect (you say basis) but it is still a system of ideas were spiritual matters play a commanding role in the ideology of the group. In such groups atheists are detested because they challenge the religious (spiritual) aspects of the tremendously strong ideas of the group. Today, even science has become a hated enterprise because it also challenges many aspects of the old comfortable ideas of many religious based ideologies. What makes you think that religions don’t have a political ideological component. What, pray tell, is Christian Zionism? Or, anti-prochoice for women, Sunday blue-laws, tax free churches, etc.
Posted by: Ed | Nov 8 2023 16:18 utc | 711
The difference I see between ideology and religion is that in religion people believe they or other spirit or whatever goes to a better world or sometimes depending on how they behave in this world they will go to a worse place.
Religion has a spiritual basis and ideology does not. I think a case in point is the CIA war of terror where they created Islamic extremism were we saw suicide bombers and assault groups wearing suicide belts so if the got close to the enemy they could blow themselves and the enemy up.
You dont see that in nazism which is an ideology.
Posted by: Peter AU1 | Nov 8 2023 2:15 utc | 350
——————————————————————
Peter, Peter, Peter, I agree with most of what you have said above. But nothing you said changes the fact that religion, like Marxism, liberalism, or even fascism is anything more than a system of ideas about how humans should or shouldn’t live together or not live together (many Jews do not want to live with other people and /or religions. The same can be said of many Christians and Muslims).
Yes, most religions have a “spiritual aspect (you say basis) but it is still a system of ideas were spiritual matters play a commanding role in the ideology of the group. In such groups atheists are detested because they challenge the religious (spiritual) aspects of the tremendously strong ideas of the group. Today, even science has become a hated enterprise because it also challenges many aspects of the old comfortable ideas of many religious based ideologies. What makes you think that religions don’t have a political ideological component. What, pray tell, is Christian Zionism? Or, anti-prochoice for women, Sunday blue-laws, tax free churches, etc.
Posted by: Ed | Nov 8 2023 16:18 utc | 712
Posted by: anon | Nov 8 2023 2:47 utc | 351
————————————————————
anon, that was a very good summary, thank you. This troll named Jose J., I think the J. is for Jew. He has been all over the place yesterday.
Posted by: Ed | Nov 8 2023 17:11 utc | 713
Posted by: anon | Nov 8 2023 2:47 utc | 351
————————————————————
anon, that was a very good summary, thank you. This troll named Jose J., I think the J. is for Jew. He has been all over the place yesterday.
Posted by: Ed | Nov 8 2023 17:11 utc | 714